#meeting-discuss | Logs for 2023-07-31

« return
[16:09:46] -!- Loggie [Loggie!Loggie@Soylent/BotArmy] has joined #meeting-discuss
[16:09:52] -!- fab23 [fab23!fabian@62.12.vng.u] has joined #meeting-discuss
[16:10:34] <kolie> 1:30 PDT we will be having a moderated open discussion, Q/A format.
[16:11:04] <khallow> It's 9:10 PDT right now, right?
[16:11:42] <fab23> it will be at 10:30 CEST (most of Europe)
[16:12:20] <fab23> would be better in 24h format: 22:30 CEST (most of Europe)
[16:13:05] <chromas> give everything in z
[16:13:21] <kolie> Yea It's 9:10
[16:13:24] -!- kazzie [kazzie!~kazzie@2a00:23c6:1767:ihou:qkgp:xoin:uozv:qhjk] has joined #meeting-discuss
[16:14:15] <khallow> In Z it'll be 20:30.
[16:14:22] <khallow> seven hours ahead
[16:15:07] <khallow> I loaded time.gov. Forgot about that.
[16:16:21] <fab23> chromas: almost nobody lives in UTC, in England/UK is currently in BST (British Summer Time), which is UTC+1
[16:19:01] <progo> with EU and USA "daylight savings - standard time" switchover getting out of sync and weeks apart, I think we all need to just drop the silly time zone switching and put every region in one time zone forever
[16:19:35] <progo> changing numbers on the clock is not a great way to coordinate activity and energy usage
[16:20:47] <kolie> Most places are / have done this.
[16:25:47] <chromas> Timezones are fine, so you can sync stuff to the daylight, but DST was always retarded
[16:27:35] <khallow> I remember the Jack Wagner hoax journals on Kuro5hin.org. He was always announcing DST changes and occasionally getting people. One time, he announced at the right time and got a couple of people who thought it was fake.
[16:33:48] -!- z [z!~z@103.6.jmu.ig] has joined #meeting-discuss
[16:36:52] <fab23> we only need NST (Nerd Standard Time) and GST (Geek Standard Time)
[16:38:03] <fab23> somehow this is still the best solution to get rid of DST :) -> https://xkcd.com
[16:38:51] <progo> north of the Arctic Circle, you'll be scheduling things by milliseconds
[16:45:06] <khallow> And there will be some really long days and nights in there
[17:08:51] -!- charon [charon!~charon@154.47.wl.zri] has joined #meeting-discuss
[17:12:26] -!- requerdanos [requerdanos!~requerdan@Soylent/Staff/Editor/requerdanos] has joined #meeting-discuss
[17:41:56] -!- Freeman [Freeman!~Freeman@69.50.ggq.ok] has joined #meeting-discuss
[17:43:51] -!- Maddog [Maddog!~Maddog@216.68.rwp.gwu] has joined #meeting-discuss
[17:59:06] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~janrinok@0::1] has joined #meeting-discuss
[17:59:19] <janrinok> Why are we changing channels?
[18:00:07] <janrinok> somebody needs to invite Loggie, otherwise no records will be kept
[18:00:18] <kolie> Loggie is in both.
[18:00:38] <requerdanos> This is the (unmoderated) lobby for discussion, while #meeting is moderated, aiui
[18:01:33] <janrinok> so this is a free fall all? How does what is said here get linked to #meeting (I am NOT an IRC expert!)
[18:04:07] <janrinok> Or is this just general discussion? How do the community get their views noted in the real meeting?
[18:04:51] <khallow> Howdy, janrinok
[18:05:58] <janrinok> hi, I'm just trying to work out what is happening
[18:08:44] <kolie> I'm reading it, and if anyone wants to talk, Q/A, whatever, I can pull it from here or a PM.
[18:08:54] <kolie> I'll voice you in meeting, you say you peace, and we work from there.
[18:09:22] <janrinok> but we can join on #meeting too?
[18:09:34] <kolie> Yea but as its moderated - no one can talk in there without voice.
[18:10:06] <requerdanos> that is the location of the official meeting, aiui also, and this is just a chat. right?
[18:10:12] <kolie> Yea.
[18:11:18] <janrinok> from #meeting, as my name disappears> thanks for that. It's almost like being banned from our own servers :) I didn't think you would let it stay.
[18:11:39] <kolie> It's a board meeting, they are going to run it basically by roberts.
[18:11:57] <kolie> I'll give it to you as long as the meeting is allowed to proceed and we are all good.
[18:11:59] <janrinok> I know - I have been to quite a few of them on here
[18:12:02] <kolie> Ok cool.
[18:12:24] <kolie> I got no problem with it - be civil but I didn't expect otherwise.
[18:12:58] <janrinok> I always try to be civil, I may occasionally be angry too
[18:28:39] -!- Ingar [Ingar!~ingar@2001:bc8:rjmp:zgsn::m] has joined #meeting-discuss
[18:34:56] -!- Runaway1956 [Runaway1956!~Yet@199.36.qqw.nm] has joined #meeting-discuss
[18:35:18] <Runaway1956> yo
[18:35:35] <janrinok> yo
[18:40:01] -!- prg [prg!~prg@ryfhuvb.de] has joined #meeting-discuss
[18:41:34] -!- dx3bydt3 [dx3bydt3!~|dx3bydt3@129.222.lox.xpu] has joined #meeting-discuss
[18:42:38] -!- halibut_ [halibut_!~halibut@CanHazVHOST/halibut] has joined #meeting-discuss
[18:54:58] -!- mechanicjay [mechanicjay!~mechanicj@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mechanicjay] has joined #meeting-discuss
[19:02:43] <kolie> I've seen this currnet offer by audioguy - who and what was the second offer?
[19:08:19] <charon> https://soylentnews.org
[19:08:48] <charon> from cmn32480 and another whom he did not name
[19:36:59] -!- jman [jman!~root@136.49.hvq.gqz] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:07:15] -!- Deucalion [Deucalion!~Fluff@Soylent/Staff/IRC/juggs] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:08:25] * Deucalion kindles the fire in the hearth and opens the bar
[20:09:31] <janrinok> ... and gets popcorn, which I am selling at the discounted price to you of only £x per ton. Offer only while stocks last!
[20:12:25] <kazzie> £x per ton? That's enough to buy Twitter!
[20:12:29] -!- z has quit [Quit: Client closed]
[20:12:49] <janrinok> yeah, but why would anyone want to?
[20:15:25] <Deucalion> Let's try to keep everything on this channel strictly related to events in #meeting. No side quests. (Mea Culpa - I opened the bar!)
[20:15:54] <janrinok> this is just the pre-film ads and a cartoon
[20:16:44] <fab23> 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿
[20:17:40] * Ingar grabs a cup from fab23
[20:20:49] <Deucalion> https://logs.sylnt.us
[20:20:54] <kolie> I just spoke with Matt, and before I spoke with NC. Just want to say that whatever the immediate result of today - everyone is on the same page and agrees in principal that a complete change out is where things need to be.
[20:21:07] <Deucalion> https://logs.sylnt.us
[20:21:19] <kolie> If anyone wants to discuss the specifics I spoke to with matt about - hmu after the meeting.
[20:22:12] <Deucalion> Is there still to be a meeting in #meeting to discuss here?
[20:23:28] <kolie> in 7 minutes.
[20:23:31] <kolie> It wasnt official.
[20:23:45] -!- mrpg [mrpg!~mrpg@Soylent/Staff/Editor/mrpg] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:24:19] <kolie> But the board has made it clear that the PBC exists to hold keys only and pay bills. Matt himself said its the community that runs/decides/organizes. With that being said I will facilitate the staff in making that happen without a board change.
[20:25:09] -!- matt_ [matt_!~matt_@Soylent/Staff/Management] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:25:14] -!- dw861 [dw861!~dbrownst@xuwx-3p1hz0mr13yd1kj78d83xddhh.ipv2.telus.net] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:26:14] <Deucalion> Hi matt_ - good to see you :)
[20:26:18] <janrinok> I think I know what you mean - it will confuse many. Don't Panic!
[20:26:22] -!- separatrix [separatrix!uid604772@un-620124.ilkley.irccloud.com] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:26:33] <matt_> Hi Deucalion!
[20:26:34] <janrinok> lo matt_
[20:26:45] <matt_> ö/
[20:27:18] -!- Veyrdite [Veyrdite!~Veyrdite@6474-0566-03u9--t82.ip3.aussiebb.net] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:27:41] <mechanicjay> matt_! been a long time!
[20:28:06] <kolie> Veyrdite, I got two questions from you queued up, problematic parts and the NDA questions
[20:28:20] <kolie> cmn32480 had a question about the buyout offers.
[20:28:40] <matt_> mechanicjay, indeed! I remember when SN's IRC was white text on a black background. looks like we upgraded!
[20:29:16] <Deucalion> kolie, are those questions on the meeting agenda? Or to be dealt with after the matter?
[20:29:28] <kolie> I will bring them up in Q&A
[20:29:33] <kolie> And any others - get them here now.
[20:29:34] <Deucalion> OK
[20:29:36] <Veyrdite> Thankyou.
[20:29:43] <kolie> Matt_ has a hard 5:30 stop ( 1 hr )
[20:29:49] <kolie> I will stick around and NC if he wants.
[20:30:00] <Deucalion> I don't see NC
[20:30:00] <janrinok> counting down the seconds then
[20:30:32] <separatrix> ::eats popcorn::
[20:31:00] -!- aristarchus [aristarchus!~aristarch@37.19.tzg.ovn] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:31:03] -!- acid_andy [acid_andy!~acid_andy@94.126.qkn.yqw] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:32:47] <Veyrdite> kolie: Note you didn't /mode aristarchus, you had a period in front so it was just normal chat.
[20:32:57] <kolie> I know :)
[20:33:03] <progo> that line amused me
[20:33:58] <fab23> /deop kolie
[20:34:11] -!- mode/#meeting-discuss [-o kolie] by kolie
[20:36:37] -!- cmn32480 [cmn32480!~cmn32480@Soylent/Staff/Editor/cmn32480] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:36:56] <Deucalion> Are the minutes of the last meeting available anywhere?
[20:37:05] <kolie> I have a copy I believe.
[20:37:27] <Deucalion> Should be published to wiki.... :P But w/e
[20:37:36] <kolie> It will be.
[20:37:38] <Deucalion> No matter now... tis a board matter
[20:37:46] -!- soylentil55 [soylentil55!~soylentil@inh-64-0-33-94.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:38:04] <kolie> https://docs.google.com
[20:38:10] <Deucalion> Ta
[20:38:33] <Veyrdite> If the last board meet was on IRC then there might be logs.
[20:38:41] <Deucalion> Unauthorized
[20:38:41] <Deucalion> Error 401
[20:38:45] <Veyrdite> Same here, Error 401
[20:39:07] <Veyrdite> Unauthorized. Plain text, have not seen Google Docs throw a plaintext fail page before.
[20:39:15] <kolie> https://docs.google.com
[20:39:23] <kolie> I didn't share it right.
[20:39:28] <Veyrdite> That works, ty.
[20:39:34] -!- charon88 [charon88!~charon@154.47.wl.zri] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:39:55] <Deucalion> They've been accepted. As long as they are available after the fact that's OK. Concentrate on matters at hand kolie :) TY
[20:40:31] -!- soylentil13 [soylentil13!~soylentil@2600:1007:b032:izsz:vhov:swni:ysp:zmyp] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:41:15] <Deucalion> https://logs.sylnt.us
[20:41:34] <Deucalion> https://logs.sylnt.us
[20:41:44] <Deucalion> ^^ for late joiners
[20:43:52] <Runaway1956> how in hell does Aristarchus have voice in #meeting?
[20:44:00] <kolie> He doesnt.
[20:44:06] <Veyrdite> It was a woosh I fell for
[20:44:10] -!- audioguy [audioguy!~audioguy@Soylent/Staff/Developer/audioguy] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:44:15] <Runaway1956> only loooked that way?
[20:44:17] <kolie> I mean im tempted to jus tsee what happens.
[20:44:17] <Deucalion> https://logs.sylnt.us
[20:44:20] -!- psa [psa!~psa@772-372-767-296.res.spectrum.com] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:44:23] <Deucalion> https://logs.sylnt.us
[20:44:29] <mechanicjay> I, for one, welcome our new trollish overlord!
[20:44:59] <Veyrdite> I don't know anything about kolie, nor whether other people want to be involved in the board or not. It will be interesting to see discussions later.
[20:45:09] <kolie> Just wait.
[20:45:12] <kolie> We got agenda.
[20:45:13] <Veyrdite> (No offence Kolie)
[20:45:20] <kolie> None taken.
[20:46:04] -!- NCommander [NCommander!~mcasadeva@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mcasadevall] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:46:14] <Deucalion> Welcome NC
[20:46:41] <NCommander> Thanks
[20:47:01] <Deucalion> kolie, can you publish your agenda?
[20:47:07] <kolie> This is it.
[20:50:15] <kolie> Well that and the questopms/
[20:50:45] -!- audioguy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[20:51:22] <Veyrdite> Point 7 is curious -- all board members too?
[20:51:57] <Veyrdite> I was going to make a joke about managment recommending adding another layer of management, but it looks to be replacing instead? Trying to read the big doc now.
[20:52:14] <Deucalion> As NC asks - can a PBC have zero board members...
[20:52:33] <kolie> It wouldn't have zero board memembers.
[20:52:37] -!- audioguy [audioguy!~audioguy@Soylent/Staff/Developer/audioguy] has joined #meeting-discuss
[20:52:43] <kolie> The existing board would be wiped and replaced.
[20:52:58] <Deucalion> Would the PBC be dissolved?
[20:53:49] <janrinok> I think the crux is who has control and/or responsibility
[20:54:06] <Deucalion> Surely there needs to be a legal "entity" of some description in order to have a bank account in order to receive sub payments and pay bills etc...
[20:54:19] <audioguy> Exactly. And that power is eielded democratically.
[20:54:29] <audioguy> wielded
[20:54:30] <cmn32480> If the PBC dissolves, it woudl be as a part of new governing docs that establish the new governing body and dissolve the old one.
[20:54:38] <Veyrdite> So the board would get replaced by the committee? Rather than the committee being created below the board and the board dissolved?
[20:55:00] <acid_andy> Should the committee members become shareholders?
[20:55:14] charon88 is now known as charon1
[20:55:30] <separatrix> I think the whole idea of shareholders is both problematic and unnecessary. The organization can be held in common simply by having a board if directors
[20:55:31] <Deucalion> But a "governing body" of a random website is not going to have much luck getting a bank account in its own right. Which would mean an individual would need to play banker
[20:55:58] <Veyrdite> ... which could lead to liability issues, and/or privacy if someone wants to troll.
[20:56:20] <separatrix> NC might be right about the difference between an NFP and a PBC. The org should switch to an NFP with expediency.
[20:56:34] <separatrix> Yes, that’s the role of a Treasurer, Deucalion
[20:56:39] <audioguy> The decision to adopt the procedure I prpposed must be done by the stockholders.
[20:56:41] <Freeman> What is the point of allowing aristarchus into the meeting?
[20:56:51] <separatrix> And controls can be put on it to require two signatures
[20:56:52] <Veyrdite> Freeman: He's not, read more of the history here
[20:57:07] <Veyrdite> Freeman: You make 3 including me :)
[20:57:10] <Freeman> Ah, okay. I just saw him added with +v and was like? XD
[20:57:21] <Deucalion> On these kind of matters I tend to listen to matt_. Over the years I get the impression he knows his shit when it comes to such things
[20:57:39] <matt_> Deucalion, thanks! :)
[20:57:47] <janrinok> Veyrdite, make that 4
[20:57:48] <acid_andy> Just the domain name, or would other assets be transferred? Data?
[20:58:17] <Veyrdite> Yeah I noticed that data wasn't mentioned. They probably see it as a liability instead of an asset :D
[20:58:26] <separatrix> Kolie’s point 7 would need to change to say the corp shall sell to the new entity and dissolve itself
[20:58:32] <Veyrdite> Of course some companies would see user info as an asset, but perhaps not here.
[20:58:43] <kolie> SEeing where this is going.
[20:59:30] <separatrix> NC is a little too worried. A committee could create the bylaws in two weeks or less without much effort
[20:59:44] <separatrix> (I’ve got samples/templates to prove it)
[20:59:59] <Veyrdite> Creating a new entity & selling; versus changing the existing one. This has some social risks, eg the old entity refusing once they discover the new one seems too different; versus gradual change perhaps getting away with more. Not sure.
[21:00:22] <Veyrdite> "social risks" probably isn't the right wording.
[21:00:31] <separatrix> I hear you, but it’s just the unknown everyone’s afraid of
[21:00:32] <Veyrdite> Psychologically different even if the results might eventually be the same.
[21:01:11] <separatrix> NC is stuck on stock because that B corp was the wrong choice in the first place. SN has always been a community run entity in theory. An NFP structure would reflect that.
[21:01:48] <separatrix> But Kolie is right: it doesn’t have to be that. There just needs to be a succession plan regardless of final form.
[21:03:15] <Deucalion> matt_, YW - just calling it as I've found. You've just quietly dealt with the corp stuff for years. Such a low profile have you kept I suspect many present may question what you do :D
[21:04:05] <khallow> So sounds like the present board might be fine with a transition to control by a community appointed board? It's now concern over mechanics of how to do that?
[21:04:18] <Veyrdite> Not 100% sure yet
[21:04:26] <cmn32480> kolie - does that include infrastructure and data?
[21:04:27] <kolie> That's the spirirt.
[21:04:49] <kolie> Yea everything.
[21:04:52] <NCommander> separatrix: uh, to make a very long story short, we tried to do a NFP originally
[21:05:03] <cmn32480> please specify that in the official minutes
[21:05:10] <NCommander> And ran into annoying legal issues at the time
[21:05:24] <audioguy> Just for the record, here is my 'fast' proposalas originally offered. Sorry for the bulk.
[21:05:28] <audioguy> You want a few simple bylaws changes? OK, here is my submission for that.
[21:05:28] <audioguy> 1. All voting powers for the stockholders are hereby rescinded until such a time as the board
[21:05:28] <audioguy> completes a rewrite of the Bylaws. Any provision of the bylaws which would be in conflict with
[21:05:28] <audioguy> this provision are hearby rescinded until the new bylaws are written.
[21:05:28] <audioguy> (takes care of stockholders overriding the board)
[21:05:29] <audioguy> 2. Full normal access for all staff will be immediately restored, so they can get needed systems
[21:05:31] <audioguy> operational again.
[21:05:33] <audioguy> (Yes, OUR systems, not kolies)
[21:05:35] <audioguy> 3. A staff vote will be held to select the entirety of a new board of 5 members. Nominations may come
[21:05:38] <audioguy> from staff or the larger community of active Soylent users. This is to be held within 30 days and will use the existing voting software for both votes, with the appropriate version for each. Any provisions of the current bylaws which would conflict with this provision are rescinded until the new bylaws are written.
[21:05:42] <audioguy> (Real democracy)
[21:05:44] <audioguy> 4. The new board is tasked with rewriting the bylaws within a maximum of 60 days. Any provision
[21:05:46] <audioguy> of the existing bylaws which would conflict with this provision is hereby rescinded.
[21:05:50] <audioguy> (Final fix)
[21:05:52] <audioguy> There you go.
[21:05:54] <audioguy> Can be passed in 10 minutes.
[21:05:56] <audioguy> Fully democratic. No one has any special advantage.
[21:05:58] <audioguy> Fixes the bylaws.
[21:06:00] <audioguy> Includes the larger community.
[21:06:02] <audioguy> No mention of Audioguy or anyone else having any special powers for any length of time in any way.
[21:06:04] <audioguy> Just for the archve :-)
[21:06:13] <Veyrdite> audioguy: Do you have that written anywhere else other than this IRC?
[21:06:43] <janrinok> yes he does
[21:06:55] <audioguy> Yes it is in a post to the meta
[21:07:23] <Freeman> In the Netflix plot line, kolie turns out to be aristarchus's acquisitions guy. ;-)
[21:07:26] -!- Luke [Luke!~Luke@253-52-67-775.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #meeting-discuss
[21:07:44] <kolie> I'll be real, I don't have any kind of discipline like that shown by ari.
[21:07:50] <kolie> He's like a dog on a god dang bone.
[21:07:57] * Runaway1956 throws rotten tomatoe at Freeman
[21:08:10] <Freeman> Only one, must have been good!
[21:09:05] -!- Luke88 [Luke88!~Luke@253-52-67-775.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #meeting-discuss
[21:09:07] <Veyrdite> Ah it's in a comment of the meta article, got it now ty. https://soylentnews.org
[21:09:25] <Deucalion> Luke, https://logs.sylnt.us
[21:09:43] <Deucalion> Luke,https://logs.sylnt.us/%23meeting/2023-07-31.html
[21:09:58] <janrinok> sale of assets - how much $
[21:10:11] <requerdanos> I feel like the pbc could at least take a vote authorizing and supporting the formation of and mission of a governance committee
[21:10:39] <acid_andy> Yeah the formation of the committee hasn't been approved by the board yet ,has it?
[21:10:50] <charon1> and formally agreeing to abide by its decision
[21:10:58] <Veyrdite> Nothing has been approved yet other than voting a 3rd member (Kolie)
[21:11:25] <separatrix> NC: I’m sure it was a cluster back in 2014. I’m just saying, my understanding of NFPs is a lot more forgiving
[21:12:03] <separatrix> Meanwhile, yes, the board needs to act on Kolie’s motion, to vote on it and not just say “hey committee form and work”
[21:12:04] <Deucalion> Question: given the board now has 3 members, 2 holding issued shares 1 not (AIUI) - what is the voting power within the board? Is it FPTP?
[21:12:16] -!- pTamok [pTamok!~soylentil@2a0a:2780:4d94:tuk:lzun:qkxg:wluy:wkzz] has joined #meeting-discuss
[21:12:19] <separatrix> The bylaws say directors need not be shareholders
[21:13:35] <separatrix> And yes, the formal motion by the board absolutely should have a deadline. I recommend two weeks.
[21:14:06] <Veyrdite> Board or committee?
[21:14:12] <Veyrdite> Sorry yes I understand now
[21:14:17] <Veyrdite> For the committee
[21:14:26] <Deucalion> separatrix, you are putting a hard time limit on the proposed committee members
[21:14:29] <requerdanos> two weeks seems breathtakingly brief.
[21:14:32] <Veyrdite> Two weeks isn't a lot of time if they want to meet & discuss a few times
[21:14:33] <cmn32480> I think it'll have to be more than 2 weeks.
[21:14:34] <Deucalion> Indeed
[21:14:42] <kolie> I think we all agree in principal what needs to happen. I just want to push a firm commitment or action from the board.
[21:14:45] <Maddog> Not sure the roadblock here to vote to agree to creation of board of community members, tasked with creation of proposal for new entity, to be presented by the board for review a time x.
[21:14:45] <Veyrdite> If they have day jobs then that might only mean 2 meetings in that period.
[21:14:46] <acid_andy> There's no point in a committee forming if there is no transfer of power to it.
[21:14:54] <progo> it takes me a YEAR to decide to buy a computer
[21:14:55] <kolie> No one is going to be happy if we close this and there is nothing decided formally.
[21:14:57] <separatrix> I’m just reacting to the fire-breathing call for ousters. If two weeks is what makes people feel okay with this proposal, so be it. But 30 days would be more optimal
[21:15:04] <cmn32480> I'd go toward 30-60 days
[21:15:11] <audioguy> Calla meeting of the stockholders, pass my 4 changes to the bylaws. Not need for committees, forming a new organization,etc.
[21:15:31] <Deucalion> For e.g. I've been afk for nigh on 2 weeks due to being on 24.7 call at work until today.
[21:15:42] -!- pTamok has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
[21:16:16] <janrinok> 90 days!!
[21:16:25] <Veyrdite> 90 days is a bit big
[21:16:37] <Veyrdite> Especially given the risk the board could reject and/or ask the committee for more
[21:16:37] <audioguy> I could do it in a day. The problem is getting evryone to agree to the same thing :-)
[21:16:39] <janrinok> that would be a full year of disaster
[21:16:51] <Veyrdite> 30 might be safer
[21:16:55] <audioguy> Democracy is a slow process
[21:16:58] <Veyrdite> esp given the "rinse and repeat" risk
[21:17:16] <separatrix> I’m with audioguy on the timeframe. It doesn’t need to be a year. Local legislation can be done in 2 weeks.
[21:17:22] <janrinok> 30 days
[21:17:26] <separatrix> 30 days.
[21:17:27] <janrinok> MA
[21:17:33] <janrinok> MAX
[21:17:33] <acid_andy> Would there even be a community left in 90 days?
[21:17:34] <Veyrdite> Local leg -> that's their job though, they don't have other paid work to attend.
[21:18:43] -!- soylentil54 [soylentil54!~soylentil@2a0a:2780:4d94:tuk:lzun:qkxg:wluy:wkzz] has joined #meeting-discuss
[21:18:51] <Veyrdite> Yeah this brings up interesting issues.
[21:18:55] <jman> Sorry to step in, but an observation per a point of NCommander's: If a sticking point is "who owns it", but the community at large cannot vote, no real change occurs. It'd be like holding the annual election of officers in my neighborhood group, but only current officers could vote on who would be the next officers. Question becomes who is a citizen? Who really has a say? It's sounding like
[21:18:57] <jman> what's wanting to happen is a migration from fiefdom to actual democracy, but the current lords just have to agree to let go or they stand a good chance of having their subjects leave town. And it sounded like they have agreed to do just that until the comment about the committee working for the board. Without voting power by the general populace, and those in charge honoring the results of an
[21:18:59] <jman> election, it's still a fiefdom.
[21:18:59] <kazzie> If it goes on for longer than 30 days, it would run into (eternal?) September. ;)
[21:19:03] <separatrix> Vey: not true. You’ll be hard pressed to find local legislators who are full-time outside of the very biggest cities.
[21:19:37] <separatrix> jman: but while the committee is doing its work, you also need to decide who gets to vote and how they’ll be validated to vote.
[21:19:41] soylentil54 is now known as pTamok
[21:19:41] <Runaway1956> I'll second jman's observations
[21:19:42] pTamok is now known as pTamok-a
[21:19:50] <acid_andy> Agree with jman.
[21:19:55] <Veyrdite> separatrix: Hmm OK, sorry. I guess all the local councillors in my area are also rich property developers that do whatever thought :P
[21:19:55] pTamok-a is now known as pTamok
[21:20:02] <Deucalion> jman makes a good point.
[21:20:04] <separatrix> Yeah. Not true everywhere, Vey
[21:20:06] <requerdanos> ten minutes remain in the first hour.
[21:20:23] <separatrix> jman: again: how do you decide who gets to vote?
[21:20:33] <janrinok> Plan B - we walk away
[21:20:35] <Veyrdite> separatrix: It was listed at the start of the other chat?
[21:20:47] <Veyrdite> > 4) The committee shall be eligible to consist of chromas, hubie, mrpg, takyon, audioguy, bytram, cmn32480, Deucalion, Fnord666, janrinok, mechanicjay, requerdanos, kolie - pending individual acceptance.
[21:21:01] <Veyrdite> I don't know if they have the power to add their own members once started.
[21:21:14] <audioguy> Our tradition has been that staff + officers vote, except in the case of really important issues, where the entire active community also votes
[21:21:16] <Deucalion> Should it instead be worded the transitional committee will be formed of.....
[21:21:17] <Runaway1956> separatrix, someone creats an algorithm to credit members for subs, posts, mods - some minimum criteria earns a vote
[21:21:19] <Veyrdite> It doesn't look like it, based off the brief description.
[21:21:48] <separatrix> Ah. No, I meant, what do you think that committee should do to validate voters for the eventual community-wide election — should any registered nick have a vote? Only people who have volunteered to work? Acs? What?
[21:22:06] <separatrix> Runaway: great. That’s a decision that needs to be made so that everyone can vote.
[21:22:09] <khallow> Runaway1956: keep in mind that such metrics can be gamed to increase voting power.
[21:22:15] <Veyrdite> I didn't know community voting was a thing until now. What's the precedent? How was it done before?
[21:22:24] <charon1> seems to me that the committee is formed of staff, but the whole userbase should vote to adopt their proposal
[21:22:29] <audioguy> I had a suggestion about that, see the definitions section of my proffer
[21:22:32] <Veyrdite> I will be a little pessimistic and say that, whilst it sounds nice, it will add a third layer of management to this situation.
[21:22:42] <Deucalion> We can't restrict voting just tp registered IRC users, that's just a subset of the community. It would have to be done via the site
[21:22:46] <khallow> Hmmm, there's already a minimum criteria for journals to appear on the Front Page
[21:22:53] <Runaway1956> too true khallow but there has to be some way to allow long established members a voice
[21:23:16] <janrinok> There is an existing voting system on the site - you just haven't seen it used in a while
[21:23:19] <separatrix> Management should not be a dirty word if the organization is structured right
[21:23:23] <khallow> minimum number of posts plus a low amount of karma
[21:23:33] <acid_andy> audioguy have any board members discussed your proffer?
[21:23:43] <Runaway1956> we do like our dirty words though
[21:24:03] <cmn32480> for instance... I've been here since day 1... but haven't been active in recent memory... but I published over 3000 stories to the front page...
[21:24:04] <audioguy> Not that I am aware of, nor cmn32480 proffer either.
[21:24:14] <Veyrdite> Even if management shouldn't be a bad word, I'm worried about friction. What started out as "board accept these changes" is now turning into "board accepts after a committee organises and accepts and gets the community to accept"
[21:24:32] <Veyrdite> From a consequential point of view: this might end up in nothing happening. Too many things to go wrong.
[21:24:33] <Deucalion> acid_andy, audioguy see #meeting - the proffers are mentioned
[21:24:41] -!- pTamok has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
[21:24:59] <charon1> kolie mentioned earlier that he didn't know cmn's offer existed
[21:25:09] <separatrix> There are just too many questions, Vey, that need to be answered by the community that would manage itself again. Constitutions don’t just happen with a fingersnap
[21:25:29] <acid_andy> Ah yes Plan B
[21:26:17] <Luke> Late to the party, but is there any reason why the organisation has to be domiciled in the U.S.? Where I come from there's a well established process/entity for community groups that, to my mind, would work well here..
[21:26:28] -!- pTamok [pTamok!~pTamok@2a0a:2780:4d94:tuk:lzun:qkxg:wluy:wkzz] has joined #meeting-discuss
[21:26:31] <Veyrdite> Was only that short sentence at the end accepted, or the full list of points at the beginning of the meet (inc 7)?
[21:26:47] <acid_andy> Veyrdite yes the pessimistic view is it's kicking the can down the road for another month or two.
[21:26:49] <kolie> Questions?
[21:27:09] <Veyrdite> kolie: Was only that short sentence at the end accepted, or the full list of points at the beginning of the meet (inc 7)?
[21:27:26] <kolie> My proposal wasn't ever motioned, I said I wanted to disuss it.
[21:27:27] <separatrix> Vey: good question. I want to say that they intended to adopt the whole motion kolie made, but technically they only adopted the last bit at the end there
[21:27:38] <audioguy> 4 minutes left. Still enugh time to pass my 4 bylaw changes. :-)
[21:27:40] <Veyrdite> Thankyou.
[21:27:49] <kolie> They created it and are agreeing to 3-6
[21:28:07] <jman> separatrix, That can be a tough one, but registered members for sure, no AC's. Any citizen in US can vote. Some vote stupidly. Can't really say you're excluded from voting because I think you're stupid. The society (SN) would have to be strong enough to handle the results of any election. Just like my neighborhood association, or any other democracy.
[21:28:21] <janrinok> good effort - but I am not surprised at the reception.
[21:28:27] <separatrix> Ok kolie ty
[21:29:07] <jman> So far as voting goes, even if it's just the staff, those folks would have to be vetted somehow. No puppets, etc.
[21:29:22] <separatrix> jman: agreed on ACs. My concern is that staff and active volunteers have a greater claim to a say based on their sweat equity. That’s the model for the org whose bylaws I want to offer as a model for a whole new NFP
[21:29:23] <audioguy> Proposed time of next board meeting?
[21:29:33] <NCommander> jman: welcome to part of the problems of the NFP we ran into
[21:29:42] <NCommander> (there are also legal restrictions here on wherever the NFP exists)
[21:29:56] <separatrix> Right. The role of a board secretary, besides taking minutes, is to validate those who are authorized to have a say
[21:30:14] <separatrix> The secretary would need to know what your criteria will be for authorizing a voter
[21:30:15] * jman runs screaming from problems. ;)
[21:30:19] <requerdanos> thanks matt and peace.
[21:30:23] <Runaway1956> whoiw that <cmn32480> guy? :^)
[21:30:42] <jman> Seriously, from what I've read as an outside observer, know it hasn't been easy.
[21:30:43] <separatrix> I second audioguy’s q: when is the next meeting
[21:30:54] -!- matt_ has quit [Quit: Client closed]
[21:31:04] -!- pTamok has quit [Client Quit]
[21:31:11] <janrinok> Runaway1956, you have a short memory. Look it up on the Editor's page
[21:31:51] <separatrix> Also, regardless of who gets to vote eventually, the nicks of every voter need to be open for public inspection
[21:31:52] <cmn32480> nice to see you too Runaway1956
[21:32:31] <jman> separatrix: Thus the vetting, however that would work.
[21:32:35] <Runaway1956> LOL jan - cmn32480 is a runner up in the F@H charts
[21:32:39] <cmn32480> Check the"Most Active Autors" section https://soylentnews.org
[21:32:49] <Veyrdite> Hmm. RE the current question about (one of the) buyout offers: this might require NC answering both as a board member and a share holder (ie personal thoughts), which might make him uncomfortable to answer.
[21:33:03] <separatrix> jman: precisely what the committee will be asked to determine, among the more general tasks of editing old or writing new bylaws
[21:33:21] <audioguy> WE have software that does exaactly that separatrix and is fully auditable, and open source.
[21:33:24] <aristarchus> Thanks to all for allowing me a voice.
[21:33:44] <separatrix> I am probably going to upload the sample NFP bylaws I have tonight so people can see what they look like
[21:33:47] <kolie> aristarchus, what up buddy
[21:33:50] <janrinok> Runaway1956, don't speak until you know what you are talking about. It doesn't help you have credibility
[21:34:27] <separatrix> Audioguy: what I mean is, whom shall the community decide should have a vote? I know you have the tools to conduct an election. But who will get to use them?
[21:34:33] <aristarchus> Not the time nor place, kolie. Sorry.
[21:34:46] <jman> IRS wants my photo ID now. A lot of folks find that intrusive, but for voting ultimately you have to know just who's casting that ballot, and have to trust the platform to maintain your privacy.
[21:35:13] <janrinok> Sep
[21:35:32] <Runaway1956> I don't know what brings all that on janrinok https://folding.extremeoverclocking.com
[21:35:33] <jman> Actually said that wrong, you don't have to know who cast what choice, but that the person is duly authorized to cast *a* ballot.
[21:35:41] <separatrix> Again, I’m not talking about how the vote will be cast and received. I’m talking about voter registration. Who gets to decide the fate of the community? ACs? Every registered user? Just active volunteers and staff? Right now it’s just the board.
[21:35:48] <Runaway1956> cmn32480, has been here a long time
[21:36:02] <jman> Understood.
[21:36:05] <separatrix> jman: right on
[21:36:48] <kolie> Alright I got two questions from verydite - any others want to be addressed?
[21:36:51] <charon1> separatrix: it cannot be anything other than all registered users
[21:36:53] <separatrix> So what do people here prefer — that every user vote, or just those who have put in sweat equity? I’ve been trying to get community members here to answer for a while
[21:37:26] <janrinok> separatrix, we know of every active account. until very recently we could and have disabled sock puppet accounts. Everyone with an an account has a vote. Some people only lurk, but they still pay subscriptions and are entitled to use the site as they choose. So each active account has 1 vote.
[21:37:48] -!- audioguyalt [audioguyalt!~audioguy@50.38.tio.tx] has joined #meeting-discuss
[21:37:58] <requerdanos> there should be some staff votes (staff affecting issues), and some community votes (community affecting issues).
[21:38:04] -!- audioguy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[21:38:16] <separatrix> Janrinok: see requerdanos
[21:38:21] <jman> jarinok: That sounds fair; the way it works in the (sur)real world.
[21:38:57] <separatrix> yes, but IRL, people have to register to vote, and terms have to be defined. Define “active” account in writing, for example.
[21:39:11] <jman> Ultimately, like any government, voting puts into office the folks that do the work. Don't like the result, vote different next time.
[21:39:13] <separatrix> Define “sock puppet” and how it’s determined. In writing.
[21:40:07] <Deucalion> kolie, NCommander - OK - are we continuing discussing here or is the floor to be opened in #meeting? One or t'other
[21:40:17] <kolie> I'm keeping it moderated for now.
[21:40:27] <kolie> I can bring in questions there if we want.
[21:40:31] <kolie> Or I guess I can open the flood gate.
[21:40:51] <Deucalion> Depends how much you treasure your sanity
[21:40:52] -!- aristarchus has quit [Quit: Client closed]
[21:40:52] <kolie> Right now - I'm taking questions from here and answering them there.
[21:41:13] <Deucalion> As long as you copy / pasta the Q
[21:41:31] <kolie> Well I got one more after this from verydyte didnt see any others.
[21:41:38] <jman> separatrix: Thus the vetting. Guvm'nt knows a lot about me, and that's what it costs for me to have a say. I can say as little as I want to gen pop, but some entity has to be able to show that this vote can be cast.
[21:41:39] <kolie> PM me if your question was missed.
[21:41:40] <janrinok> separatrix, It is a duplicate account owned by a single person. It is used to gain extra moderation points, for moderation abuse, to carry out personal attacks, or doxxing, and other banned activities. They are not acceptable accounts in this community.
[21:41:42] <audioguyalt> I have beendisconnected twice, anyone else having this problem?
[21:42:07] <janrinok> audioguyalt, Nope but it is very laggy
[21:42:19] <audioguyalt> and it looks like I need to restart so I can reclaim my name :-)
[21:42:20] <Deucalion> audioguyalt, nope, no issues from my bouncer to SN IRC or from my client to my bouncer.
[21:42:50] <khallow> I'll need to head out. I do have a positive view of this meeting. This is better both in terms of transparency and communication. I don't have expectations that the future direction of SN will be decided in a few weeks.
[21:42:58] <audioguyalt> be right back
[21:42:58] <separatrix> jman: who should do the vetting?
[21:43:04] <Deucalion> audioguyalt, you should be able to either /ghost audioguy or /nick
[21:43:21] <separatrix> Janrinok: ok, so a sock puppet is quantifiable. Good.
[21:43:55] -!- khallow has quit [Quit: Client closed]
[21:44:02] <jman> Tough question. Simplest solution would be some form of actual, societal government photo ID, but that may seem to instrusive. Would have to percolate...
[21:44:28] <jman> Oh, but absolutely SN itself would do the vetting.
[21:44:55] <separatrix> jman: even I’m not recommending something that intrusive. janrinok has a better handle on what I mean, and knows the user base pretty well. There should be a standing committee whose role is just to validate users as voters.
[21:45:27] <separatrix> Yeah, a group of volunteers from SN should be elected/appointed to perform the role of validating users. It’s a purely internal question.
[21:45:30] <jman> Right, don't want that either. Was just thinking about the technical problem of people forging.
[21:46:00] <separatrix> Just you and I discussing this point is doing a tiny bit of the hard work of writing new bylaws.
[21:46:10] <janrinok> separatrix, It was part of the Day Manager's role that I recently vacated.
[21:46:33] <separatrix> So you might want to have a slightly higher standard than just “registered user”. Maybe they’ve contributed a certain minimum. Maybe they have a certain karma.
[21:46:41] <Deucalion> Everyone has to register their physical address and votes are one by mail :S
[21:46:44] -!- audioguyalt has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[21:47:04] <separatrix> janrinok: I feel it’s something that ought to be overseen by a group of three rather than a single person
[21:47:07] <kazzie> I'll stock up on airmail stamps, then. :)
[21:47:31] -!- audioguy [audioguy!~audioguy@Soylent/Staff/Developer/audioguy] has joined #meeting-discuss
[21:47:39] <separatrix> So that no one can cry foul at being left out, that someone is rigging the voter list somehow
[21:47:48] <jman> Deucalion: That's one way. Karma is another. But ultimately, to be truly democratic, any member of the society should have a say. It's a tough one!
[21:48:24] <Ingar> a few logins the past year seem approriate
[21:48:49] <Ingar> can't have zombies voting either
[21:49:08] <separatrix> ^^this
[21:49:36] <janrinok> separatrix, if you can find the staff who 1. have the seclev to access the data, and 2. want the job then let the site know please. I only assumed the role because nobody else wanted to do it. We are all running 2 or more roles at the moment.
[21:49:41] <Deucalion> jman, it's very problematic given we struggle with sock puppet accounts / alts. One individual could have many accounts and if not discovered have too much weight in a vote
[21:49:55] -!- acid_andy5 [acid_andy5!~acid_andy@94.126.qkn.yqw] has joined #meeting-discuss
[21:50:03] <jman> Deucalion: True that. If a method can just be found to prove individual identities, anyone with an account should be able to vote.
[21:50:15] <separatrix> At the org I’m part of, voters have to put in a certain number of volunteer hours.
[21:50:16] <charon1> why not? lurkers are not allowed a voice? i get that ACs wouldn't be if they can't be bothered to make an account
[21:50:22] -!- acid_andy has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
[21:50:43] <kolie> Taking questions for #meeting - we are at the bottom of the bucket rn.
[21:50:48] acid_andy5 is now known as acid_andy
[21:51:01] <kazzie> charon1: some lurkers are paying subscribers, though.
[21:51:03] <separatrix> But this is something the community must decide
[21:51:25] <charon1> kazzieyes. that's the point i'm making
[21:51:31] <requerdanos> "who should decide" is something to be decided? okay, by whom [:repeat]
[21:52:18] <NCommander> requerdanos: that's the committees job to determine.
[21:52:24] <separatrix> this is kind of a Brexit-sized vote. It’s a big deal, so for the adoption of a new organization, I’d err on the side of more rather than fewer. But like Brexit, it’s susceptible to politics
[21:52:44] <requerdanos> fair enough.
[21:52:51] <Luke> Why not just use a registered users karma value, no reason it has to be numerically one vote only?
[21:53:02] <janrinok> There is usually no objection to lurkers. But sock puppet accounts tend to have certain characteristics that make them identifiable. For obvious reasons I am not going to list them here. We have managed to get the problem of 18 months ago under control. Are there still sock puppets - yes probably. But they are not causing a significant problem.
[21:53:26] <kazzie> Luke: That's an interesting idea
[21:53:28] <Deucalion> kolie, Q for #meeting - what are the next steps? Propose first step is contact the suggested committee members to see if a committee can indeed be formed as suggested.
[21:53:34] <separatrix> All the more reason why, at least for this all-important vote, all the people who could vote should be publicly noticed
[21:53:49] <jman> janrinok: If the puppets can be reliably identified, their votes could be considered invalid. Gosh, this is sounding like 2020! YIKES!
[21:53:59] <separatrix> To follow on Deucalion’s question: does everyone named agree to join the committee?
[21:54:24] <janrinok> We have been doing that for a while - one person in particular complains about it regularly
[21:54:25] <audioguy> A clear summary of decisions made, and path to implementton would be appreciated.
[21:55:33] <Deucalion> separatrix, those named may need to a little time to mull this evening's proceedings. Don't press gang them just because they happen to be here.
[21:55:55] <audioguy> Normally the secretary would do that.
[21:56:02] <Luke> kazzie: yeah, see "In the Wet" (Nevil Shute) where he described multiple voting, still in use today at a few Universities...
[21:56:11] <separatrix> Deucalion it was more a question of, is there anyone named who expressly does *not* want to serve and knows it right now
[21:56:49] <separatrix> Audioguy one reason why a board shouldn’t be less than five. Secretary’s job is too important to be doubled up with President or VP
[21:57:13] <jman> Even my little neighborhood association, 150 or so homes, has a five member board.
[21:57:35] <kolie> Deucalion, audioguy see #meeting
[21:58:03] <Deucalion> I see it
[21:58:20] <kolie> Are you interested in being on the committee
[21:58:20] <audioguy> Yes, that was my point a long time ago. Note that I changed that to three onmy proffer only because I aslo recommeded most of the process be accoplished by staff itself, so that was only for the interim board.
[21:58:35] <Deucalion> kolie ans I said above to separatrix, those named may need to a little time to mull this evening's proceedings. Don't press gang them just because they happen to be here.
[21:58:53] <kolie> Needing time is ok.
[21:59:11] <kolie> Just want to put it out there.
[21:59:15] <kolie> And saying so is cool.
[21:59:30] <audioguy> I will be on it provided enough others I trust also agree.
[22:00:46] <kolie> So I'm putting you as on it. If you want to resign lmk.
[22:01:48] <audioguy> Ok. I thought I shoud put that our now, as I have been rather..adamant.. about some things, so others should know I am willing
[22:02:29] <requerdanos> that's 5 people on a governing committee so far, kolie, janrinok, requerdanos, mechanicjay, audioguy. Is this correct?
[22:02:41] <kolie> I'm chairing it - my intent was to have 5 other than myself.
[22:02:53] <requerdanos> so still one short of goal, okay
[22:02:54] <kolie> And it's worded as such.
[22:03:08] <audioguy> How about we elect a chair?
[22:03:45] <kazzie> You might want to make sure you know how many members the comittee has before you start voting.
[22:03:59] <audioguy> Yes.
[22:04:13] <Veyrdite> I recommend >> 5, as there will be absences due to life.
[22:04:24] <Veyrdite> >> meaning bigger than
[22:04:30] <kolie> Five wasn't my minimum - I'd like nearly everyone listed.
[22:04:39] <separatrix> I’ve gotta bounce. Eager to read more later. Good luck all.
[22:04:42] <audioguy> I agree with that
[22:04:45] <kolie> Thanks separatrix
[22:05:11] <Deucalion> Jesus kolie - did you just put audio on the committee unless he resigns?
[22:05:28] <audioguy> meaning "I'd like nearly everyone listed."
[22:05:57] <audioguy> More the better.
[22:06:03] <kolie> Yea - for sure.
[22:08:00] <Veyrdite> I was going to ask about organisation. Not sure if the committee will want the IRC informal only or set meet dates+times too.
[22:08:07] -!- Loggie [Loggie!Loggie@Soylent/BotArmy] has joined #meeting-discuss
[22:10:06] <Ingar> make #committee, maybe even +m, allow lurkers
[22:10:35] <kolie> ira #governance
[22:11:06] <Deucalion> Oh god no... there's a bajillion legacy "staff" chanels already
[22:11:26] <kolie> #governance is open
[22:11:30] <kolie> just a topic channel.
[22:11:35] <Deucalion> kolie, audioguy needs voice in 'meeting
[22:11:41] <kolie> its -m
[22:11:49] <kolie> is it still moderated?
[22:12:09] <Veyrdite> Ah I still have power there, so I don't know
[22:12:17] <Veyrdite> I've just assumed the mod is off
[22:12:28] <kolie> try to talk Veyrdite
[22:12:54] <Veyrdite> In #meeting? I have
[22:12:58] <kolie> right now
[22:13:01] <kolie> say something i took voice away
[22:13:32] <Veyrdite> I just said Test 123
[22:13:39] <kolie> ty
[22:19:06] <kazzie> Bedtime is approaching for me: time to sign off. Thanks to the the board and staff for getting the ball rolling today, and best of luck to the new committee in putting something good and watertight together.
[22:19:23] <requerdanos> many thanks. Peace.
[22:19:56] -!- kazzie has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[22:20:35] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~janrinok@0::1] has parted #meeting-discuss
[22:22:06] -!- charon has quit [Quit: Client closed]
[22:22:06] -!- charon1 has quit [Quit: Client closed]
[22:26:45] <acid_andy> Gotta go too. Bye all and thanks for the hard work.
[22:27:05] -!- acid_andy has quit [Quit: acid_andy]
[22:38:33] <progo> jman: "Nothing got done in the board meeting" -- you should see New York Amateur Computer Club. we agreed in principle to find a way to meet in person again, with no presentation agenda, just hanging out in public. about 18 months ago. we haven't agreed on time and place yet
[22:38:49] <progo> from where I sit, I saw a productive board meeting today in SN
[22:40:46] <progo> the NYACC board arranges presentations (on Zoom) and collects membership payments and not much else
[22:42:46] <jman> Attendance seems small. Understood a tiny number of people compared to number of accounts do the work, but I would have thought more gen pop would have been present, at least to see what happened.
[22:43:19] <jman> Also consider myself gen pop, not sure how I could best contribute so have been happy to just make it financial via the subscription.
[22:43:30] <progo> same here
[22:43:36] <progo> I don't have time for more politics in my life
[22:43:58] <jman> Really like this site though and hope things work out. If not I'll be following the fork.
[22:45:02] <jman> For me it's more about time. Am a pretty good writer, could probably wrangle submissions into shape. Am a fair 'puter head but there are probably plenty of people who can work a server.
[22:47:29] <mrpg> jman: thanks for your suscription, you can send in submission too, just a link to a good story if you don't have more time.
[22:49:28] <jman> I actually do have to renew, it was due in June and I held off due to all the hulabaloo. So far as submitting, I don't scour the 'net. Stories from here and Vulture Central are good jumping off points for me, but I generally don't go looking around. I'd spend all day staring at the screen!
[22:53:41] <jman> There, re-subscribed. Dinner calling, it's been fun. L8R!
[22:55:32] -!- Maddog has quit [Quit: Client closed]
[22:57:25] <mrpg> Bye
[22:57:31] <kolie> o/
[22:57:35] <kolie> ill be around another hour or so.
[23:05:17] kolie is now known as MrPressGang-Kolie
[23:05:33] MrPressGang-Kolie is now known as MrPressGang-kolie
[23:17:23] -!- soylentil13 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
[23:35:41] <audioguy> jan 'Attendance seems small' - a lot of people just don't do IRC. Most, in fact. Also we have people scattered over many time zones. This was a problem for me, and I am, ah, pretty involved - I had to deliberately push my normal schedule up a few hours two days ahead of time to be able to participate. People will read the logs.
[23:36:13] <MrPressGang-kolie> Yea the posts meta will help too.
[23:36:24] <audioguy> I have to go, but did want to mention that
[23:45:05] -!- ChanServ [ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us] has joined #meeting-discuss
[23:45:05] -!- mode/#meeting-discuss [+o ChanServ] by atheme.staging.soylentnews.org
[23:45:05] -!- MrPressGang-kolie was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- progo was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- chromas was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- ted-ious was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- fab23 was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- requerdanos was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- Freeman was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- Ingar was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- Runaway1956 was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- prg was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- dx3bydt3 was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- halibut_ was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- mechanicjay was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- jman was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- Deucalion was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- mrpg was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- dw861 was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- separatrix was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- Veyrdite was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- cmn32480 was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- soylentil55 was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- psa was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- NCommander was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- Luke was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- Luke88 was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- audioguy was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]
[23:45:05] -!- Loggie was kicked from #meeting-discuss by ChanServ!ChanServ@ircservices.sylnt.us [This channel has been closed]