#editorial | Logs for 2015-05-17
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[13:43:03] <cmn32480|sleeping> zoinks... the queue is thin. par for the course on a Sunday morning
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[13:51:52] -!- mode/#editorial [+v n1] by SkyNet
[13:52:04] cmn32480|sleeping is now known as cmn32480
[13:52:25] <n1> ahoy, cmn32480
[13:52:31] <cmn32480> heya n1
[13:52:35] <cmn32480> happy Sunday
[13:52:49] <n1> lol
[13:52:53] <n1> same to you kind sir
[13:53:19] <cmn32480> it is nice to see your happy smiling face back throwing articles in the queue
[13:53:25] <n1> how is your weekend going?
[13:53:37] <n1> :)
[13:53:47] <cmn32480> yardwork yesterday... wor work today
[13:54:05] <cmn32480> I gotta get a prototype made up for a meeting on Thursday in New Orleans
[13:54:15] <n1> for the next couple weeks i'm going to try and pick up the slack before i go on the road and will be offline
[13:54:29] <cmn32480> any and all help is greatly appreciated
[13:54:40] <n1> ah well, makes me feel better as im not the only one working today ;)
[13:54:45] <cmn32480> not sure if anybody cued you in to my situation
[13:54:53] <cmn32480> *clued
[13:55:02] <n1> refresh my memory?
[13:55:05] <cmn32480> I might have the other night
[13:55:18] <cmn32480> in the last 90 days I have spent about 35 nights in hotels
[13:55:23] <n1> i recall you said you're working to cover someone who quit
[13:55:24] <n1> yeah
[13:55:32] <cmn32480> my time is as spotty as they come
[13:55:49] <cmn32480> i hop in when I can, and nobody has asked me to do any more than that
[13:56:10] <cmn32480> we all do the best we can as volunteers
[13:56:19] <n1> when i first joined the team, i said i'd only do a story or two when i had the time, but didn't end up working out that way heh
[13:56:33] <cmn32480> never does
[13:56:34] <n1> yeah, everyone has other stuff which has to take priority
[13:56:43] <cmn32480> RL is a pain
[13:56:58] <cmn32480> and my kids wanna see me too :-)
[13:57:13] <cmn32480> OOOO coffee pot buzzed... back in 30 seconds
[13:57:17] <n1> when i'm on the road, i'd actually have time for working on the site, but am usually totally out of comms due to the festival locations
[13:57:39] <n1> lucky to be able to make a call a lot of the time due to lack of signal and network congestion
[13:57:48] <n1> tea++
[13:57:48] <Bender> karma - tea: 4
[13:57:52] <n1> ;)
[13:58:55] <cmn32480> coffee++
[13:58:56] <Bender> karma - coffee: 6
[13:59:31] <cmn32480> so what do you actually do for the festivals? I've seen some reference to security work
[14:01:21] <n1> i do security work for the festivals, as an offshoot of the primary security stuff i do, and this year have moved into signage
[14:01:34] <cmn32480> digital sinage?
[14:01:43] <n1> nope, just regular boring stuff
[14:01:50] <cmn32480> interesting
[14:01:51] <n1> it's one of those things, after working on them on other capacities for so long
[14:01:56] <n1> how many times you get asked 'where's the atm'
[14:02:00] <n1> or 'where is the bus stop'
[14:02:04] <n1> when it's only 20ft away
[14:02:17] <n1> because there's no signage for anything, or it's just really poorly done
[14:02:21] <cmn32480> i'm gonna guess you get asked 50-100 times per day, each
[14:02:38] <n1> easily
[14:02:55] <cmn32480> understood.
[14:03:00] <n1> so figured it was worth doing as a thing, as no one really does it that way
[14:03:07] <n1> people who do 'signage for festivals'
[14:03:12] <n1> are arty hippie folk
[14:03:32] * cmn32480 thinks "damn dirty hippies" to himself
[14:03:32] <n1> when really you just need pure informational signs to point people in the right direction
[14:03:57] <cmn32480> ATM->
[14:03:59] <n1> so providing a service now of 'hiring, installing and removing' temporary signage for events
[14:04:04] <cmn32480> Loo->
[14:04:17] <n1> this is the first year on that front, so it's a new thing
[14:04:35] <cmn32480> Backstage Groupie Entrance->
[14:04:51] <cmn32480> very cool.
[14:04:53] <n1> i'm actually working on it with my dad, who tours the festivals all summer
[14:04:56] <cmn32480> always good to be expanding
[14:05:36] <n1> i did my first glastonbury festival when i was 4months old
[14:05:49] <n1> my dad was site crew then too, so it's in the blood kind of thing
[14:06:00] <cmn32480> somethign tells me you weren't really helpful at that point
[14:06:10] <cmn32480> very cool
[14:06:22] <n1> no, but there are pictures of me as a 4month old with "access all areas" passes :p
[14:06:23] <cmn32480> side of life that I never got into
[14:06:55] <n1> you're in the USA i assume?
[14:07:05] <cmn32480> yes, sir
[14:07:14] <n1> bit of a different culture out there on it from what i understand
[14:07:18] <cmn32480> Baltimore area
[14:07:39] <cmn32480> bit different is somethign of an understatement
[14:07:50] <cmn32480> lack of culture somehow seems more accurate
[14:08:35] <n1> know why that is?
[14:08:57] <n1> there's a big live music scene over there, at least in the cities, but didn't translate over to festivals
[14:09:21] <cmn32480> some of the festivals have done very well and run for a lot of years
[14:09:38] <cmn32480> others died a horrible screaming death after a year or two
[14:10:03] <cmn32480> Lollapalooza comes to mind as an example of the former
[14:10:04] <n1> as i think i mentioned the other day, it's a very tough industry and they do go under all the time
[14:10:17] <n1> even 'successful' festivals go bankrupt multiple times
[14:10:27] <cmn32480> sure
[14:10:44] <cmn32480> that's gotta be a pain for you, how do you make sure you get paid?
[14:10:45] <n1> but then you get ones like Download
[14:10:55] <n1> which have licences to print money
[14:11:06] <n1> you can't really
[14:11:15] <n1> i'm still several thousand out of pocket from last year
[14:11:21] <cmn32480> ouch
[14:11:41] <n1> yeah, there's a lot of bad feeling over that
[14:11:54] <n1> was a long project involved in, which actually started the year previous
[14:11:57] <n1> when i helped them out
[14:12:04] <n1> and then they fucked me last year and cost me a lot of money
[14:12:14] <cmn32480> real nice
[14:12:28] <cmn32480> I just submitted a poop story to the queue
[14:12:35] <cmn32480> that ought to stir up some shit
[14:12:50] <n1> classy...
[14:13:04] <cmn32480> it is about the international space station, so it is relevant
[14:13:23] <n1> by the way, didn't do your links right in the sub
[14:13:37] <cmn32480> the ed. queue is mostly devoid of anything good this morning
[14:13:50] <cmn32480> so empty that I am thinking of running the Chinese tablet story
[14:14:11] <n1> missed the http:// on the direct link to space.com
[14:14:30] <n1> but obviously will be fixed, just a fyi
[14:15:21] <n1> how have the submissions been coming in lately?
[14:15:27] <n1> from here it doesnt look like much has changed
[14:15:45] <cmn32480> slowly.
[14:16:04] <cmn32480> i fixed the http and then forgot to uncheck display
[14:16:35] <n1> dont think running the $50 tablet is a good idea
[14:16:47] <cmn32480> i don't either
[14:17:16] <n1> i think that is the tipping point where we're better off not running a story than going with something like that
[14:17:19] <cmn32480> you wanna run a quick look at the space poop and let it display
[14:18:09] <cmn32480> i agree.... it was held in the queue the other night as a just in case the queue dries up
[14:18:50] <n1> i'll swap it out so i'm the author, to make it clear it went through the proper editing process and you wern't just super excited to get a story about poop out that you went around the process ;)
[14:19:04] <cmn32480> Thanks
[14:19:25] <n1> or could just put Bytram's name on it, so it's all his fault.
[14:19:34] <cmn32480> EVEN BETTER!
[14:20:35] <n1> lol the music for the video
[14:20:59] <cmn32480> i thought it was funny enough to deserve a short article
[14:21:04] <n1> i completely agree
[14:21:22] <n1> wouldn't have looked at it before, but it's rather good
[14:21:51] <cmn32480> We shoudl add a line to the bottom about "Howard Wolowicz would be proud."
[14:22:16] <cmn32480> you guys get "Big Bang Theory" over there?
[14:22:46] <n1> yeah, although i stopped watching it after season2
[14:23:04] <cmn32480> at some point he invented/engineered the space station toilet
[14:25:50] <n1> want me to add it on the end?
[14:27:02] <cmn32480> I don't know, but I think most of our community would get the joke
[14:27:08] <cmn32480> sure. why not?
[14:27:16] <n1> i added it in
[14:27:22] <n1> including a link to a wikia article explaining it
[14:28:37] <cmn32480> excellt
[14:28:44] <cmn32480> good thinking
[14:29:39] <n1> if i may ask, so whats this prototype your building?
[14:29:49] <n1> youre*
[14:29:52] <cmn32480> you can absolutely ask
[14:30:03] <cmn32480> but if I tell you I may have to kill you
[14:30:07] <cmn32480> :-)
[14:30:10] <cmn32480> no actually
[14:30:19] <cmn32480> we are doing an RFID project for a hospital
[14:30:51] <cmn32480> where they are going to be charging patients for items that are being used right in the rooms
[14:31:22] <n1> so automatic billing on everything, is the end goal?
[14:31:27] <cmn32480> so the nurse waves <item> in front of the RFID antenna and the patient in that room gets charged
[14:31:39] <cmn32480> everythgin worth more than about $10
[14:31:55] <n1> which in a hospital is about everything
[14:32:03] <cmn32480> right
[14:32:21] <cmn32480> currently they are going to be tracking about 1000 of their 3000 SKU's
[14:32:38] <cmn32480> but every time we talk to them that number goes up
[14:32:52] <n1> not a bad thing from your business perspective
[14:33:03] <n1> possibly not so exciting if you're going into hospital though
[14:33:07] <cmn32480> means we get to sell mire RFID tags
[14:33:18] <cmn32480> so I can't complain
[14:33:24] <cmn32480> *more
[14:34:05] <n1> so does the company you work for develop custom systems or just combine existing for new solutions?
[14:34:21] <cmn32480> my piece of this project is the actual readers, their installation, and making it look like the hospital intended to do this all along, not as a last minute project for a place that is supposed to open on August 1
[14:34:43] <n1> i do know how that goes
[14:34:56] <cmn32480> mostly we combine existing for new solutions
[14:34:57] <n1> usually thats how it works with the security systems i install
[14:35:09] <cmn32480> "and we need this completed yesterday"
[14:35:12] <n1> after everythings been fitted and decorated... "oh now we need access control, alarms and cctv"
[14:35:24] <cmn32480> yup
[14:35:46] <cmn32480> so the prototype that I am putting together today is for the antenna placement in the rooms
[14:35:55] <n1> although outside the festivals i am getting quite amazing at getting out of doing cabling :D
[14:36:08] <cmn32480> thankfully almost all made from existing off the shelf parts
[14:36:18] <n1> that doesnt sound too bad
[14:36:25] <n1> obviously as long as they work
[14:36:35] <cmn32480> cabling is good $$$. use a sub and take a cut as the primary on the job
[14:36:54] <cmn32480> help to backfill the bank account
[14:37:23] <n1> i usually get the primary contractors to do it, or the clients electricians, it really depends
[14:37:39] <cmn32480> ok, so you ARE a sub
[14:37:57] <n1> not really
[14:38:10] <n1> i work directly for the clients, and instruct them to get their guys to put the cables in usually
[14:38:33] <n1> subcontracting is crap money
[14:39:31] <cmn32480> ok. pulling cable, at least in the US, can net you some decent extra cash
[14:39:48] <n1> if i didnt have a million other things to do, it wouldnt be so bad
[14:40:20] <n1> but it's less than half the money i can get for second fix or commissioning
[14:40:39] <n1> but takes just as much time, and more labour
[14:41:39] <cmn32480> right, but if you don't ahve to be on site beyond the first couple hours to tell them where the stuff needs to end up, you can be out doing a commissioning or drumming up new business while they are doing the dirty work
[14:42:17] <n1> thats what i do, but if i hire subs to do it
[14:42:24] <n1> and they fuck it up
[14:42:24] <n1> it's my fault and problem
[14:42:29] <n1> if the clients contractors fuck it up, it's not my fault
[14:43:10] <cmn32480> agreed, but if they don't do it right, they don't get paid, and you already have the majority of the cable run and can likely fix it easier than running all new
[14:43:12] <n1> i really only use people i trust working for/with me
[14:43:21] <cmn32480> absolutely
[14:43:24] <cmn32480> we do the same thing
[14:43:26] <n1> maybe i'm a bit of a control freak with it
[14:43:35] <n1> and i also dont like paying 'market rate'
[14:43:43] <n1> because i think it's bullshit for the area
[14:43:45] <cmn32480> it is a character trait I struggle with every day
[14:44:16] <n1> like a friend of mine who does work for me sometimes, will basically take whatever i offer him on the money
[14:44:33] <n1> but i just dont work that way, i know his skills and what he's actually worth, and what it costs to live around here
[14:45:13] <n1> i'm a bad capitalist
[14:45:14] <cmn32480> this is the same thign my employer struggled with a few years back
[14:45:58] <n1> but thats why im hopefully moving into a new industry where i can be hands off completely, where i wont need the level of control i do now
[14:46:05] <cmn32480> we were trying to do all the jobs internally, and realized that there are points in time when we have to get others in so that we can continue to generate business and have the next set of jobs lined up
[14:46:27] <cmn32480> what's the new opportunity?
[14:46:48] <cmn32480> I hope it is somethign cool where I can live vicariously through you
[14:47:11] <n1> the short version of it, it's we've had a unique opportunity, my business partner and myself to set up an MVNO.
[14:47:45] <n1> there's a lot more to it than that, but thats the general business we're moving into
[14:48:41] <cmn32480> very neat
[14:49:03] <cmn32480> how bad are the UK telecom regulations?
[14:49:38] <n1> as with all industry, changing constantly unless you're a TBTF
[14:49:52] <cmn32480> hehehe yeah
[14:50:02] <n1> also a reason to move out of the security stuff, the regulation thats coming in, is probably going to ruin our niche
[14:50:13] <cmn32480> oof... that stinks
[14:50:26] <n1> there's a lot of work for little reward
[14:50:36] <cmn32480> nothign like regulation to take down perfectly viable small businesses
[14:50:38] <n1> especially on the lower end of the market
[14:50:53] <cmn32480> we get a lot of that here too
[14:50:59] <n1> can do say 10 quotes on systems for residential properties
[14:51:14] <n1> might get 2 or 3 of them
[14:51:24] <n1> but after all is said and done, it's practically minimum wage
[14:52:10] <n1> a couple of years ago, i did subcontracting for a security company that was as far as im concerned criminal, and i couldn't work for them ethically
[14:52:26] <n1> they were scamming elderly and vulnerable people out of thousands
[14:52:35] <cmn32480> that ain't right
[14:52:42] <n1> and i used to work for a multinational, which scammed people in different ways
[14:53:03] <cmn32480> and at that point you went into business for yourself
[14:53:03] <n1> which might be why i dont trust anyone in the industry
[14:53:43] <n1> i dont play the game really, and it loses me business
[14:53:51] <cmn32480> geesh... given a history like that I can't imagine why
[14:53:56] <n1> but i'm not going to become what i think is wrong with the industry
[14:54:34] <cmn32480> imagine that... ethics, what a novel concept
[14:54:34] <n1> it's actually quite disturbing
[14:54:50] <n1> it gets even worse when dealing with the 'security guards'
[14:55:07] <n1> when you're one of them, they talk and act without reservation
[14:55:16] <n1> it can be quite eye opening to see what goes on behind the scenes
[14:55:50] <n1> i had a manager of a security company telling me he was excited for the nights events, because 'it should kick off, so we'll get some action tonight'
[14:56:11] <n1> wasn't just a random 20 year old asshole
[14:56:15] <cmn32480> guys looking for a fight?
[14:56:18] <n1> was a late 50's army veteran
[14:56:45] <n1> ive had them come on shift before, and because they're so amped and ready for it
[14:56:48] <n1> they fight amongst themselves
[14:56:54] <cmn32480> really?
[14:56:54] <n1> because it's 3am when they started shift and everyones asleep
[14:57:01] <cmn32480> wow
[14:57:19] <n1> not seriously, but they're that ready for it they start sparring and wrestling
[14:57:31] <cmn32480> although, I will say I understand that.
[14:57:40] <n1> its understandable to a point
[14:57:54] <cmn32480> when I was a bouncer for a bar in college, we had something of the same problem
[14:58:00] <n1> but it's not professional to do that infront of customers, even if there isn't many around
[14:58:20] <n1> now if it's round the back, or out of view of the public, then i'd be more understanding
[14:58:34] <cmn32480> guys woudl come in on specific nights where we knew there might be issues and instead of playing Patrick Swayze, they wanted to be Mike Tyson
[14:58:44] <n1> but infront of clients and with the management watching on cctv, it looks really bad.
[14:59:15] <n1> yeah, there's a lot like that, and its really not good in my opinion
[14:59:16] <cmn32480> yes. acting like idiots when you are out of view is one thing
[14:59:30] <n1> ive had some explain to me 'how they do it'
[14:59:32] <cmn32480> doing it where people can see you is totally different
[14:59:48] <n1> as in how they're going to use the radio to smack someone in the head with
[14:59:55] <n1> but do it in such a way it's quick and quiet and no one will notice
[15:00:03] <cmn32480> nice
[15:00:25] <n1> say while two other guards are restraining a trouble maker, they'd walk by and just land a quick shot with the butt of the radio
[15:00:36] <n1> being all animated and excited telling me about how he does it
[15:00:55] <cmn32480> nice fellas
[15:01:12] <n1> some of them are great
[15:01:44] <n1> can have really good chats with many of them, sometimes the way things go there's nothing to do for hours but stand around
[15:02:08] <n1> so you get talking to them, and a lot of them are what you'd hope.
[15:02:15] <n1> but sadly there is a notable percentage that go looking for trouble
[15:03:11] <cmn32480> the bouncers in college had the same problem
[15:03:45] <n1> there are some festivals now that have security, to watch the other security
[15:04:14] <n1> and then a seperate cctv security again to watch over all of them.
[15:04:31] <cmn32480> guys to watch the wathchers... and who is watching the watchers of the watchers?
[15:04:41] <n1> me :p
[15:05:08] <n1> but yeah, it's impossible really
[15:05:18] <n1> but you're not going to get the best and brightest all the time
[15:05:27] <n1> the working conditions for those guys, at the festivals are pretty bad
[15:05:36] <cmn32480> and certain professions don't tend to bring in the brightest bulbs
[15:05:42] <n1> 16-18hrs on a static position, nowhere to sit, no shade or shelter
[15:06:06] <n1> wearing a cheaply made and poorly fitting uniform
[15:06:15] <cmn32480> yick
[15:06:38] <cmn32480> I'll pass, Thanks!
[15:06:43] <n1> and usually when they're doing that it's 7 days a week
[15:07:01] <n1> they work constantly most of them, until there's no work going
[15:07:18] <n1> so it's sleeping in the car, standing up for 16 hours, sleeping in the car, standing up for 16 hours
[15:07:20] <n1> then onto the next event
[15:07:48] <cmn32480> woof
[15:07:56] <cmn32480> and I bet the pay ins't great either
[15:08:14] <n1> it can be minimum wage if they're not official security
[15:08:31] <cmn32480> "official" security?
[15:08:35] <n1> if they're real security it's usually about $15/hr to the guard
[15:09:05] <n1> they often blur the lines between security and stewards
[15:09:22] <n1> because from the customers perspective, they're the same thing when they need them.
[15:09:58] <n1> but as a steward, you just need to exist, no training or qualifications, just a body.
[15:10:13] <n1> security you need SIA accreditation
[15:10:18] <cmn32480> ahhh got it
[15:10:59] <n1> i talked to someone who did their SIA because of the olympics
[15:11:14] <n1> and he explained to me how it was for him
[15:11:17] <cmn32480> this is a world I know nothing about, and the inside perspective is very interesting to m
[15:11:27] <n1> the first real long shift, 14hr+
[15:11:36] <n1> it 'broke him', now it doesnt matter
[15:11:59] <n1> can be in a static position for as long as he is told to be, brain just shuts off and you go into zombie mode
[15:12:07] <cmn32480> broke him, as in "I can stand for 3 days straight and not know the difference"?
[15:12:10] <n1> yeah
[15:12:38] <cmn32480> damn... I don't knwo that I could do that
[15:12:52] <n1> but before that, it was pretty tiring he said, doing the 8-12hrs like it, but once you go past that and come out the other side, it becomes different
[15:12:56] <n1> yeah, me either
[15:13:15] <n1> i cant really work in that environment
[15:13:34] <n1> i've always been pretty lucky in my work, whatever the situation ive never had any direct oversight
[15:14:14] <n1> even back to my first job, working in a kitchen, the only time i worked was when they had subs/agency guys working as the chef
[15:14:49] <n1> so i did my thing, didn't have have a chef barking at me, because the chef was just there for the day and didnt give a shit themselves
[15:16:02] <n1> then going into the security industry with the multinational, i worked by myself most of the time, and even on the big projects, usually everyone was under the main contractor, but we were contracted by the client directly
[15:16:27] <cmn32480> interesting
[15:16:35] <n1> so ive never had anyone 'telling me what to do' and 'supervising' me if you know what i mean
[15:16:48] <cmn32480> SWEET... i may be going to cut firewood!
[15:16:54] <n1> oh yeah?
[15:17:00] <cmn32480> fire up the cahinsaw!
[15:17:34] <n1> sure thats not illegal in this day and age? :p
[15:17:41] <cmn32480> oddly enough, it si one of those thigns I LOVE to do
[15:17:57] <cmn32480> even if it is, I'm still gonna go do it
[15:18:04] <n1> you rebel!
[15:18:17] <cmn32480> wait... was that the cops that just pulled up?
[15:18:35] <n1> honestly, i'm getting more appreciative of the simple things like that
[15:18:53] <cmn32480> i find it to be very relaxing, concentrate on one thign
[15:18:59] <cmn32480> and try not to chop my leg off
[15:19:25] <n1> i do enjoy woodworking and carpentry, and making a fire is pretty awesome
[15:20:08] <n1> work and perhaps the world in general has slowly been destroying my previous passion for technology
[15:20:15] <n1> you really would do well not to chop your leg off
[15:20:39] <n1> if there's any advice i can give you, it's a avoid that
[15:20:41] <n1> ;P
[15:29:59] <cmn32480> ok. I gotta run
[15:30:19] <n1> take care, thanks for the chat, helped me avoid work for a while :D
[15:30:19] <cmn32480> he said I cang et up there at any point, and my wife has plaans this afternoon, so I gotta motor
[15:30:27] <cmn32480> glad I could help. :-)
[15:30:34] <cmn32480> I'll let you know if I cut my leg off.
[15:30:44] <n1> have fun :)
[15:30:50] cmn32480 is now known as cmn32480|cuttin
[20:20:34] <n1> cmn32480++
[20:20:34] <Bender> karma - cmn32480: 5
[20:20:36] <n1> CoolHand++
[20:20:36] <Bender> karma - coolhand: 11
[22:07:17] -!- Azrael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[22:10:02] -!- Azrael [Azrael!~Az@Soylent/Staff/Editor/Azrael] has joined #editorial
[22:10:02] -!- mode/#editorial [+v Azrael] by SkyNet
[23:18:36] cmn32480|cuttin is now known as cmn32480
[23:18:42] <cmn32480> n1: I am back.
[23:18:46] <cmn32480> very dirty
[23:18:50] <cmn32480> very sweaty
[23:19:03] <cmn32480> very satisfied with a hard days work
[23:19:09] <cmn32480> and I still ahve all my limbs!
[23:19:30] <cmn32480> I will now go rectify the dirty/sweaty thing]
[23:45:06] <n1> good job
[23:45:21] <n1> glad to hear
[23:45:30] <n1> i should really go to bed