#staff | Logs for 2015-05-05
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[00:00:04] <juggs> In any other parlance audioguy :)
[00:00:05] <paulej72> I was thinking based on NCommander's thoughts is that we ould hava Community nexus that would be like the Main Page, where all communitiy Nexii would land atomagically, Our eds could add the main page to any of these stories to post to main
[00:00:24] <NCommander> paulej72, not a bad idea, but it could get too cluttered with too much content
[00:00:43] <NCommander> We're still at least another dev cycle from it. Right now, I want to get rehash out the door before rewriting the admin code which is truly horrofic
[00:00:52] <paulej72> NCommander: depends on the amount of stuff being posted
[00:00:55] <NCommander> But here's the other thing you can do with nexii
[00:00:59] <NCommander> YOu can attach a domain to it
[00:01:18] <NCommander> For example, let's say we internationalize the codebase at some point, and a group of people want to start soylentnews in polish
[00:01:23] <NCommander> We could register soylentnews.pl
[00:01:35] <paulej72> but a second domain means a sperate node balancer and cert
[00:01:37] <NCommander> Then add the necessary skins table entry, so if you pull the site via soylentnews.pl, you get that nexus.
[00:01:44] <NCommander> paulej72, this won't be a free service
[00:02:04] <mrcoolbp> My only comment is I’m weary of fragmenting our community, but this could, in the end, drive more people here
[00:02:10] <mrcoolbp> not sure
[00:02:16] <paulej72> sure that is where a bunch of costs would come from
[00:02:17] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, well, ideally, soylentnews.org won't change drastically
[00:02:18] <mythterj> @NCcommander I admire your grandiosity. ;-)
[00:02:21] <juggs> wary rather than weary?
[00:02:28] <mrcoolbp> aye
[00:02:32] <takyon> you'd need a story publish date for each nexus. so if its published on Wednesday on dwarffortress, you see it on Thursday, it can be put on the Main page on a new time on Friday..
[00:02:33] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, but let me give you a real life example
[00:02:41] <NCommander> I'm a big fan of Dwarf Fortress
[00:02:57] <Bytram> chicken/egg do we need greater diversity to encourage more participation, or less diversity to build community?
[00:02:59] <NCommander> The two largest communities for DF are Bay12 and reddit. Guess which subreddit I'm active in
[00:03:13] <mrcoolbp> right
[00:03:22] <paulej72> takyon: that would be a big project to make happen
[00:03:23] <NCommander> If we had a soylentnews.org/dwarffortress, I could post articles there without gumming up the page. The mainpage becomes a best of everything.
[00:03:51] <NCommander> paulej72, we could move publication date to the nexus lookup table. Theorically, its straightforward. Making a UI that doesn't make editor heads explode is tricker
[00:04:00] <Bytram> we can barely keep the story queue filled and story comment level atm, I'm concerned what would happen if we had a more 'dispersed' community
[00:04:06] <mrcoolbp> ^
[00:04:09] <NCommander> I don't see how the community would disperse
[00:04:10] <paulej72> except I would think a df nuxus would be under the community nexii
[00:04:25] <takyon> paulej72: it's necessary. if you don't add multiple date fields, the story will be put back in time and nobody will see it on the main page
[00:04:34] <Bytram> s/disperse/be spread thin/
[00:04:39] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: Bytram is actually right, unless you spend time in #editorial and actually trying to keep the queue full, this is not obvious
[00:04:40] <cmn32480> a side thought - we will need a larger number of editors that are active
[00:04:44] <mrcoolbp> ^
[00:04:53] <NCommander> Hold on
[00:04:59] <NCommander> I think you're misunderstanding how this is supposed to work
[00:05:16] <juggs> The nexus owner edits their own nexus right?
[00:05:20] <NCommander> juggs, yeah
[00:05:23] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: not really, but we are brining up an issue with our current situation
[00:05:33] <NCommander> We're getting issues intermingaled
[00:05:38] <mrcoolbp> a little
[00:05:41] <paulej72> community nexii are run by memebers of the community that want a specific nexus that is not covered by a SN nexus
[00:05:48] <mrcoolbp> yes 6
[00:05:52] <mrcoolbp> oops
[00:06:01] <NCommander> paulej72 gets it in 1. I'm not getting how that will spread people thin.
[00:06:18] <mrcoolbp> the point is we are already thin
[00:06:24] <takyon> about being the master of a nexus:
[00:06:25] <mrcoolbp> on editors and submissions
[00:06:27] <paulej72> so if a group of people want a bacon nuxus they need to man it
[00:06:35] <takyon> it occurs to me that we'll have the same problem ICANN has with gTLDs... where multiple people want control of the same nexus
[00:06:40] <juggs> So I could have OMGPwnies nexus - SN editors are not responsible for keeping it fuelled with new stories - I am responsible for that
[00:06:40] <cmn32480> if the stories that get posted to an individual nexus are somewhat poorly written, or have a good story, but need significant editing for the main page, does that chagne what was posted in the orgininating nexus?
[00:06:57] <NCommander> takyon, yeah, nexii open a fairly large of can of worms which is why I want the discuss well in advance of golive
[00:06:59] <paulej72> yes juggs
[00:07:09] <NCommander> cmn32480, yes
[00:07:25] <NCommander> We could make a submit to mainpage copies instead of links, I'm not sure if thats a good idea.
[00:07:28] <mrcoolbp> we just train them and support the software I guess
[00:07:28] <cmn32480> that may cause issues with the maintainers of a given nexus
[00:08:02] <NCommander> I think once rehash goes live, we need to have a large discussion with the community on this
[00:08:06] <takyon> making a new copy without doing that story date juggling I mentioned would be easier to do with the current system, except you lose out on any comments that were made on the original scope... probably
[00:08:06] <paulej72> cmn32480: if it needs editing, we could copy it to a new article and link back to the nexus
[00:08:09] <cmn32480> NCommander - a submit to main page that generates a copy would work better, I think
[00:08:16] <Bytram> cmn32480: agreed. we already have some 'fun' with people who disagreed with some of our editing efforts
[00:08:19] <NCommander> I'm going to take an action item to write a novel on the topic, and pass it around.
[00:08:35] * NCommander notes this likely will be much longer than my usual articles
[00:08:37] <Bytram> what a novel idea...
[00:08:44] * Bytram cringes
[00:08:59] <CoolHand> LONGER?
[00:09:02] <NCommander> I'm pretty sure I'm mrcoolbp's worst enemy when it comes to editor training
[00:09:08] * cmn32480 is gonna take a sick day whaen that comes out so he doesn't have to edit it.
[00:09:16] <mrcoolbp> = )
[00:09:19] <juggs> Hmm - does this loop back to copyright in some way? If people are submitting stuff to their own nexus, can we come along and purloin that onto SN Main Page?
[00:09:21] <NCommander> Cause everytime I post something, #editoral has a collective heart attack, or I break dev
[00:09:22] <paulej72> cmn32480: sick week
[00:09:32] <cmn32480> <cough> <cough>
[00:09:32] <NCommander> juggs, yes, that too
[00:09:50] <NCommander> I dunno, I liked paulej72's solution to the code equivelent of my posts
[00:09:55] <NCommander> "Here's the Apache2 port"
[00:10:03] <NCommander> "COMMIT!"
[00:10:09] * Bytram relaxes a bit when he remembers reviewing the incorporation docs, some of which contained sentences with more than 500 words, each.
[00:10:14] <paulej72> fix it in post
[00:10:27] <mrcoolbp> “we’ll do it live!”
[00:10:28] * takyon begins planning a list of what nexii I'm going to seize control of
[00:10:47] <NCommander> My personal thought was this:
[00:11:40] <NCommander> For things that are of general interest, we give nexii on a first come, first serve basis (perhaps for free if the nexus owner can show a demand for it), and then editors can get involved in case of nexus admin issues, and have this clearly laid out
[00:12:01] <NCommander> For individual things, like a rehash hosted blog, put a price tag on it, and we ignore it completely aside from legal stuff.
[00:12:20] * NCommander has seen a lot of stupid reddit drama because reddit admins are completely hands off
[00:12:26] <mrcoolbp> gotta support it if we are charging for it though
[00:12:27] <NCommander> I don't want to see sn.org/shitsnsays
[00:12:29] <takyon> who would get a nexus for a blog if they can just use their journal
[00:12:52] <NCommander> takyon, journals are very limited compared to what you can do with the site. You can get content upload, schedule stuff, etc.
[00:13:04] <mrcoolbp> Overall, It’s a cool idea, I’m curious to hear the community’s thoughts
[00:13:06] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, from a technical perspective, we support the whole thing already.
[00:13:12] <mrcoolbp> tru
[00:13:18] <paulej72> we sill need to figure out what SN nexii we need. Meta and Breaking News are on dev, but breaking News could just be a topic
[00:13:23] <NCommander> We'll just have sn.org/meta/technicalsupport
[00:13:24] <juggs> NCommander, there's a fine line to walk there - either SN are moderating nexii or they are not. There's a legal line there that determines responsibility for hosted content. IANAL.
[00:13:32] <CoolHand> I think there should be some T.O.S./rules on it, so they can't have racist stuff, etc. that could reflect badly on the main SN
[00:13:57] <NCommander> juggs, DCMA actually makes that stupidly clear. As long as we're not actively posting it ourselves but just approving/rejecting the overarching topic, we're fine.
[00:14:00] <NCommander> DMCA
[00:14:09] <NCommander> CoolHand, agreed
[00:14:24] <juggs> DMCA only applies in the US :P
[00:14:48] <mrcoolbp> SN is “in the US”
[00:14:48] <cmn32480> the list of verboten topics has to be clearly defined
[00:15:01] <NCommander> juggs, we're a corporation based on the united states. If we get sued, it will be in a court of law here. Someone may file suit in another country, but it would likely be dismissed as we don't have a legal presense there
[00:15:06] <CoolHand> don't want it turning into a new 4chan /b/..
[00:15:09] <takyon> nexus: the dynamite that will blast soylentnews into a million pieces
[00:15:10] <NCommander> Agreed
[00:15:17] <juggs> OK
[00:15:18] <NCommander> This is going to be a fine line to walk
[00:15:36] <NCommander> But we've done this before. Subscriptions, incorporation, etc. Stuff that tends to scare a community
[00:15:36] <Bytram> what is the perceived benefit for SN?
[00:15:55] <NCommander> Bytram, increased revenue (from nexii themselves, plus additional subscriptions), increased usage
[00:16:01] <takyon> alternate route for submissions, greater users
[00:16:05] <NCommander> And furthering our mission statements
[00:16:43] <juggs> Hmm - could we consider a revenue share with nexii owners on the subs they bring in?
[00:16:45] <Bytram> kthnx.
[00:16:46] <NCommander> I think the community will define a lot of the limitations on this, on how far we're willing to go and not. This only flie with community support.
[00:16:59] <NCommander> juggs, longer term, def. possible, but let's not put the cart before the horse.
[00:17:12] <paulej72> NCommander: right now I have the subscribe fucnction all go back to the main page. there is no per nexus subscribe suppoort
[00:17:21] <juggs> I haven't learnt to walk yet - let alone carts and horses :D
[00:17:26] <mrcoolbp> guys, matt_ and I have to transfer some domains, and I want to work up some docs to send to staff, should we move to adjourn? You guys can hang around and chat
[00:17:35] <NCommander> paulej72, we have many details to hash out about that. I like the idea of revenue sharing
[00:17:47] <NCommander> I think we have action items, and a course of action, I think we can call the nexii discussion tabled
[00:17:52] * NCommander calls to adjorn.
[00:17:53] <juggs> mrcoolbp, I think we've gone way beyond AOB at this point
[00:18:00] <matt_> All those in favor of adjourning:
[00:18:03] <NCommander> aye
[00:18:04] <mrcoolbp> Aye!
[00:18:06] <matt_> Aye!
[00:18:12] <matt_> This meeting of the SoylentNews PBC Board of Directors stands adjourned!
[00:18:12] <NCommander> I'd call that a successful meeting
[00:18:22] <juggs> aye
[00:18:27] <paulej72> yay
[00:18:27] <NCommander> Lots of important discussion, and such :)
[00:18:27] <Bytram> agreed!
[00:18:41] <NCommander> I'll get a novel written up, and after the editors come back from the pysch ward, get it posted.
[00:18:44] <Bytram> we should have a staff meeting sometime soon, too!
[00:18:46] <CoolHand> hah
[00:19:01] <matt_> NCommander, mrcoolbp, email sent to confirm the resolutions made during today's meeting.
[00:19:05] * NCommander notes he's written over 100k words collectively on SoylentNews
[00:19:09] <juggs> Bytram, I suppose that would be on me to schedule :D
[00:19:24] <NCommander> Pretty sure that statistic would give editors a retroactive breakdown :)
[00:19:33] <Bytram> juggs: good luck with that
[00:19:34] <mrcoolbp> .topic | This is the channel for SoylentNews meetings | This channel is logged: http://logs.sylnt.us |
[00:19:34] juggler changed topic of #staff to: | This is the channel for SoylentNews meetings | This channel is logged: http://logs.sylnt.us |
[00:19:36] <paulej72> NCommander has deleted 100k+ lines of code
[00:19:39] <juggs> Bytram, any thoughts for agenda items for a staff meeting?
[00:19:51] <NCommander> paulej72, I earn the right to post a sentence for every bit of code I removed from rehash :)
[00:20:01] <juggs> I seem to remember the last one I saw rambling on and on for many hours :D
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[00:20:09] <paulej72> every bit, damn
[00:20:09] * cmn32480 falls over
[00:20:09] <Bytram> not atm, but sometimes it's good just to get eveyone together and make sure nothins bulding up, if you know what I mean?
[00:20:12] <Bytram> brb
[00:20:40] <Bytram> oh, when is the NEXT SN PBC board meeting?
[00:21:10] * Bytram just restored the #Soylent /topic
[00:21:51] <cmn32480> It's been a great time kids, but I'm gonna go home and see my wife adn real children
[00:22:16] <CoolHand> bye dada
[00:22:35] <mrcoolbp> later cmn32480
[00:22:42] <cmn32480> I'll see you tomorrow son.
[00:22:47] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: non scheduled currently
[00:23:01] cmn32480 is now known as cmn32480|gone
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[00:23:26] <matt_> minutes posted!
[00:23:27] <cmn32480|gone_home> any word oin the bouncer accounts juggs?
[00:24:52] <juggs> cmn32480|gone_home, bouncer accounts will be done once I get the wiki HOWTO written up. Unless you have a couple of hours for a one on one blow by blow personal walkthough?
[00:25:00] <juggs> walkthrough*
[00:27:42] <cmn32480|gone_home> fair enough juggs.
[00:27:49] <cmn32480|gone_home> thanks for the update :-)
[00:28:35] <juggs> Just ask Bytram how long it took us to step him through it using IRC as the comms medium - and he was slightly easier as he had two nicks grouped to his account :D
[00:32:37] * Bytram would have to check his logs, ISTR it went from 0130 to about 0400
[00:33:26] <mrcoolbp> lol
[00:34:03] <Bytram> juggs is quite the gentle and supportive instructor /me was QUITE impressed!
[00:42:43] <juggs> Yah - see - I don't really want to do that for every new staffer that comes and goes. Far better to spend an hour or two knocking up a wiki on it I think. :) That probably makes me sound lazy :/
[00:46:25] <mrcoolbp> not at all, have you seen the editorial docs juggs?
[00:46:32] <mrcoolbp> those things are crazy long
[00:48:28] <takyon> are we going to get diff for stories?
[00:49:34] <juggs> Yeh, I have read the editorial pages. They may be long... but that's kinda the point, they're comprehensive and save either LamX or janrinok burning many hours during onboarding. I like reading them from time to time as they remind me what good documentation / reference material should be about. It's not that common these days to see good documentation.
[00:50:22] <juggs> Arch and Debian wikis are also fonts of wisdom
[01:01:12] <mrcoolbp> yeah, I did a bunch of by-hand editor training as well, it was exhausting
[01:01:27] <mrcoolbp> some of the new guys basically just read the docs and went off on their own
[01:01:35] <mrcoolbp> they grow up so fast -_-’
[01:06:23] <juggs> You nailed it. Onboarding is time consuming and repetitive. It makes sense to document it a. to prevent burn out in the onboarders b. to provide consistency c. avoid word of mouth peer to peer training that has the habit of proliferating bad practice d. anyone could fall under a bus tomorrow (yeh, that's morbid, I call it continuity planning)
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[01:14:03] <mrcoolbp> juggs: I try to document everything I do somehow
[01:14:10] <mrcoolbp> need to do more of it though
[01:16:01] <juggs> We all should.
[01:18:03] <takyon> were the minutes sent to the mailing list?
[01:20:04] <mrcoolbp> matt_ do we usually send to staff-list or just post on wiki?
[01:20:48] <matt_> takyon, mrcoolbp, they are posted to the wiki: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[01:21:25] <takyon> ok
[01:22:44] <juggs> uch, my sneeze was recorded for posterity..... and a jiggle too.... I should probably take more care about what I utter during board meetings :D
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[01:27:19] <matt_> NCommander, could you please reply to the email i sent you to confirm today's votes? According to our bylaws, you have 2 days to confirm, so no rush ;)
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[01:34:13] <takyon> screw the bylaws
[01:34:13] <takyon> we're ICANN now
[01:39:21] <juggs> and we're here to take IANA from your death grip! Oh wait.. aren't we NetMundial now? I lose track. We really need a volcano base to put a whiteboard in to plan these things properly.
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[02:49:13] <NCommander> matt_, no problem
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