#staff | Logs for 2014-10-01

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[00:16:29] -!- matt_ [matt_!~4c76b3cf@Soylent/Staff/Management] has joined #staff
[00:16:29] -!- mode/#staff [+v matt_] by juggler
[01:01:44] * NCommander has to go find an outlet for this meeting
[01:15:39] <mrcoolbp> did I make it?
[01:15:46] <matt_> just in time :)
[01:15:47] <mrcoolbp> wow, just in time
[01:15:48] <mrcoolbp> = )
[01:15:55] <mrcoolbp> ninja-ed as usual
[01:16:17] <mrcoolbp> we'll wait for NCommander to find an outlet
[01:16:30] <NCommander> I'm here
[01:16:38] * NCommander has an outlet
[01:17:14] <mrcoolbp> okay, let's get started then
[01:17:44] -!- Bytram|away [Bytram|away!~pc@Soylent/Staff/Developer/martyb] has joined #staff
[01:17:44] -!- mode/#staff [+v Bytram|away] by juggler
[01:17:57] <mrcoolbp> and bytram just made it too = )
[01:17:57] <paulej72> here
[01:17:59] -!- matt__ [matt__!~4c76b3cf@t-59-991-957-035.hsd4.ma.comcast.net] has joined #staff
[01:18:03] -!- matt__ has quit [Changing host]
[01:18:03] -!- matt__ [matt__!~4c76b3cf@Soylent/Staff/Management] has joined #staff
[01:18:03] -!- mode/#staff [+v matt__] by juggler
[01:18:11] <matt__> DC'd :/
[01:18:26] <mrcoolbp> it's cool, everyone is here
[01:18:29] <paulej72> not a meeting unless you do matt_
[01:19:01] <mrcoolbp> matt_ you want to chair?
[01:19:07] <matt__> k.
[01:19:19] <matt__> Issue 1: Officer nominations.
[01:19:34] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[01:19:39] <mrcoolbp> okay, what are our options for officers?
[01:19:58] <matt__> Assistant Treasurer was discussed at our last meeting, iirc
[01:20:02] -!- matt_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[01:20:06] <mrcoolbp> lol
[01:20:10] matt__ is now known as matt_
[01:20:16] <matt_> much better :)
[01:20:39] <matt_> I believe that Bytram wanted some time to consider the nomination.
[01:20:41] -!- Strat_ [Strat_!~d07e3056@208.126.ul.uq] has joined #staff
[01:20:42] * Bytram was having comm issues, too. here.
[01:21:00] <Bytram> yes, and I appreciate having the opportunity to think it over.
[01:21:01] <mrcoolbp> matt_ I believe that's correct, bytram did you get to consider your nomination?
[01:21:06] <mrcoolbp> oh
[01:21:13] <Bytram> I am flattered to have been nominated.
[01:21:32] <Bytram> I have discusssed it with some people and at this time, must politely decline the invitation...
[01:21:46] <mrcoolbp> I understand
[01:21:48] <matt_> Bytram, understood :)
[01:21:48] <Bytram> however, I will gladly continue to assist in any way I can.
[01:21:54] <mrcoolbp> okay
[01:22:36] <NCommander> Did we have another nomination?
[01:22:39] <mrcoolbp> well, I'd like to have an odd number of members, so since I only have one other nomination, I'm not sure where that leaves us
[01:22:47] <matt_> are there any other nominations for officers? the main purpose would be to have someone to officially help mrcoolbp with any of the items on his large todo list.
[01:23:00] <matt_> mrcoolbp, keep in mind that officers need not be board members.
[01:23:22] <mrcoolbp> is @juggs around = )
[01:23:27] * mrcoolbp smiles sliley
[01:23:56] <Bytram> matt_: ISTR there are protections mentioned in the bylaws; do those apply equally for board members as well as officers?
[01:24:14] <paulej72> he was in soylent just a few minutes ago
[01:24:25] <matt_> Bytram, that is correct. Officers are indemnified for actions taken in good faith on behalf of the corporation.
[01:24:47] <Bytram> thanks... and the same/equal protections for board members?
[01:25:20] <NCommander> Bytram, corporate veil is the legal term to know here
[01:25:33] <matt_> Bytram, the indemnifications of the officers are detailed in the appropriate board action by which they are elected.
[01:25:44] <Bytram> thanks.
[01:25:50] <mrcoolbp> okay, well getting me an assistant is a secondary priority for me. Another thing we wanted to do eventually was expand the board to 5 memebers, I don't think we have an avenue to pursue that currently, let's defer this again to next meeting
[01:25:56] * mrcoolbp moves to defer
[01:26:00] <NCommander> second
[01:26:12] <matt_> aye!
[01:26:15] <mrcoolbp> aye!
[01:26:28] <NCommander> neat
[01:26:31] <matt_> Issue 2: Follow-up on SoylentNews Policy Document - Updates:
[01:26:42] <matt_> Bytram, i believe that this was your issue?
[01:26:45] * NCommander scanned and signed it!
[01:26:47] <Bytram> yes, thanks.
[01:26:50] <mrcoolbp> Okay, as per not having an assistant I haven't made any progress on this personally
[01:27:05] <Bytram> many thanks to crutchy for his suggestions and comments.
[01:27:10] <mrcoolbp> ^^
[01:27:21] <Bytram> the main question I have at this point lies with copyright,
[01:27:24] * juggs is here - sorry went afk for a few
[01:27:33] <Bytram> especially sith respect to stories.
[01:27:41] <Bytram> say user foo submits a story.
[01:27:49] <Bytram> the editor looks at it, likes it exactly as it is.
[01:28:02] <Bytram> editor pushes it to the main page.
[01:28:27] <Bytram> who owns the copyright?
[01:28:34] <NCommander> Honestly, I think the solution here is going forward, everything has to be put under a CC license
[01:28:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> the user. you can't transfer ownership of copyright, only assign rights.
[01:28:49] <NCommander> Probably CC BY-SA
[01:28:51] <mrcoolbp> yeah and put a disclaimer on the submission page
[01:28:57] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, actually, yes you can */2 cents*
[01:29:24] <mrcoolbp> (juggs: no prob)
[01:29:25] <Bytram> the mental conflict I was facing was wrt the notice when a user submits a *comment*
[01:29:41] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: this may be answered by issue #5
[01:29:55] <mrcoolbp> if you are worried about infringement
[01:30:09] <mrcoolbp> at least partially
[01:30:12] <Bytram> possibly... just two more quick things to finish the thought, if I may?
[01:30:17] <matt_> issue #5 is a good one. i do think that it would be good to have a clear statement of who owns the copyright to submissions if we don't have one already.
[01:30:18] <mrcoolbp> sure
[01:30:18] <Bytram> comments: "The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. "
[01:30:49] <Bytram> and, wrt journal entries, I'm assuming those are also owned by the submitter; can probably use the same text as for comments.
[01:30:52] <Bytram> k, that's it.
[01:31:21] <NCommander> So, here is my 2 cents
[01:31:39] <NCommander> While having comments owned by who posted them is nice in theory, it does create future headaches
[01:32:00] <NCommander> For instance, if we ever wanted to release (pat of) the database freely, we don't own the copyright nor have a license to do so
[01:32:33] <mrcoolbp> interesting
[01:32:37] <matt_> NCommander, i wonder if that isn't somewhat intentional, as the poster may not have intended their comment to be so released...
[01:32:41] <mrcoolbp> .
[01:33:07] <Bytram> also, it provides some *protections* for us, should someone post something "troublesome"
[01:33:08] <NCommander> matt_, doesn't stop someone from scraping them out of the database
[01:33:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> should put some legalese in there stating that the user retains full rights but licenses us to use said comment in any form we see fit in the future.
[01:33:13] <NCommander> Pipedot already proved it was technically possible
[01:33:17] <Bytram> like the entirety of some copyrighted document.
[01:33:36] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: excellent point.
[01:33:44] <NCommander> matt_, I rather put it to a community vote, and anything we do will *not* be retroactive
[01:33:52] <mrcoolbp> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[01:34:03] <matt_> sounds good.
[01:34:07] <mrcoolbp> okay, someone note that down
[01:34:09] <NCommander> If the database/content/etc. is CC, then the community has the means to fork in a way thats a *lot* cleaner than what we did w/ /.
[01:34:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> we need to mark the final comment under the old rules then and save that information
[01:34:12] * NCommander looks at the chair
[01:34:20] <mrcoolbp> hah
[01:34:32] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, not hard, we can do it at the CID< and allow users to retroactively release their old comments
[01:34:38] <Bytram> we would need some proper legalese... the submitter gives SOylentNews PBC, etc. a non-exclusive, worldwide, license to publish blah blah blah
[01:34:55] <NCommander> Bytram, wikimedia has a pretty sane form for that
[01:34:58] <NCommander> Since they release everything CC BY-SA
[01:35:11] <mrcoolbp> yeah that should do it then
[01:35:13] <Bytram> I'
[01:35:39] <Bytram> I'm not a legal beagle, but want to make sure we get the right wording when we do decide to go live with it.
[01:35:39] <matt_> NCommander, do you want to run a story on the site suggesting the change and see how many pitchforks come out?
[01:35:54] * NCommander shivers
[01:36:10] * mrcoolbp grabs blanket
[01:36:12] <NCommander> I do think we've released the idea before witout the community ripping our heads off
[01:36:22] <Bytram> there's also the matter of the copyright notice for the wiki and twiki.
[01:36:32] <NCommander> Bytram, wiki I think is CC BY-SA already
[01:36:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> i do have one thing to add here before we move on. we need to register a DMCA agent soonest or we get very few protections as a service provider.
[01:36:51] <NCommander> Bytram, yup: Content is available under Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike unless otherwise noted.
[01:36:56] <Bytram> yes, agreed. but I'm unsure whether that was by *intention* or by default.
[01:36:57] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, that too
[01:37:02] <mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: that's issue #5
[01:37:03] <matt_> TMB, that's issue#5 ;)
[01:37:08] <mrcoolbp> haha ninja-ed
[01:37:13] <matt_> hah!
[01:37:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> teach me to read first
[01:37:14] <NCommander> Bytram, intentional default? Lets us use the stuff on it freely
[01:37:53] <Bytram> and, if someone comes at us for a copyright violatio0n bcause someone posted a violating item on there, are we protected?
[01:38:03] <Bytram> that leads to the need for a DMCA notice, too.
[01:38:10] <mrcoolbp> Bytram, yup #5
[01:38:26] <Bytram> btw, I can't seem to put my hand to the agenda list; could someone pls post the link here?
[01:38:26] <matt_> Bytram, you had a number of sub-items for issue #2. would you like to discuss any others?
[01:38:34] <matt_> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[01:38:44] <Bytram> matt_: thank you!
[01:39:11] <Bytram> matt_: looking/thinking
[01:40:01] <mrcoolbp> I think the plan was for me to go through this, tighten up a few screws, and send to staff for review, I have not done that yet
[01:40:07] <Bytram> have a mental block right now; I decline for the moment, but please ask again at the end.
[01:40:39] <Bytram> on second thought
[01:41:08] <Bytram> I have the genral areas roughed out where I see the need for certain items to be stated on the site.
[01:41:29] <Bytram> But, I lack the legal knowledge on how to phrase things, as well as full knowledge of what we actually *want*
[01:41:40] <Bytram> those are the stumbling blocks for me on Issues 2*
[01:41:56] <NCommander> Feel free to poke my brain for legal wording crap
[01:42:10] <Bytram> thanks!
[01:42:23] <Bytram> that leaves what do we WANT in the way of protections.
[01:42:25] -!- mythterj [mythterj!mythterj@txl.ORG] has joined #staff
[01:42:35] <Bytram> I'd rather not tie up a board meeting with the minutia
[01:43:03] <Bytram> maybe, send out an e-mail to board? staff? with each section in turn, and solicit feedback?
[01:43:12] <mrcoolbp> bytram, that was my plan
[01:43:21] <Bytram> I'm open to suggestions at this point; I just saw a need and wanted to get the ball rolling.
[01:43:53] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: you've done some great work there, I just need an hour or two to give it a thourough read-through and I haven't gotten to it
[01:44:14] <mrcoolbp> my apologies everyone
[01:44:22] <matt_> TODO: mrcoolbp, review site policy document and send out to staff when ready.
[01:44:43] <matt_> shall we move on?
[01:44:49] <mrcoolbp> I think so
[01:44:54] <mrcoolbp> I don't think we can finish this now
[01:45:03] <matt_> Issue 3: We should buy quickbooks for accounting (and abandon GNU cash as this was always meant to be an interim measure)
[01:45:10] <mrcoolbp> I vote yes
[01:45:13] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: we're a group of volunteers and sometimes the world does not permit the priorities we'd like to give the site; I understand!
[01:45:14] <matt_> mrcoolbp, any idea how much this would cost?
[01:45:23] <mrcoolbp> $150 I think
[01:45:35] <Bytram> I've not loked into it, lately, but ISTR there are
[01:45:47] <Bytram> additional "modules" that might cost extra
[01:45:58] * Bytram has no idea if we'd need them, or the cost.
[01:46:07] <matt_> sounds reasonable to me (and a very good idea to get this done before year's end)
[01:46:14] <Blackmoore> Sadly i will also agree. Quickbooks is most likely something an accountant will want us to have
[01:46:19] <Bytram> is there anyone here who has used quickbooks before?
[01:46:21] <NCommander> matt_, ACK
[01:46:29] <NCommander> We've got money
[01:46:31] <NCommander> lets spend it
[01:46:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, yes but not in the past ten years.
[01:46:32] <NCommander> :-)
[01:46:34] <mrcoolbp> lol
[01:46:36] <matt_> Bytram, i have. it takes some getting used to.
[01:46:48] <NCommander> I've used Quicken, which uses a fair number of the same UI stuff
[01:46:51] <NCommander> and I know how to do accounting
[01:46:56] <Blackmoore> I did some back in prehisotic times
[01:46:59] <Bytram> great!
[01:47:02] <matt_> All those in favor of mrcoolbp buying a copy of quickbooks:
[01:47:08] <mrcoolbp> Aye!
[01:47:10] <matt_> Aye!
[01:47:15] <NCommander> ^- what they said
[01:47:17] <matt_> Resolved!
[01:47:21] <mrcoolbp> yay
[01:47:28] <matt_> Issue 4: How much copyright content may be legally reproduced in a story summary? Some summaries contain copypasta of copyright material from commercial news sites. Do we need a scripty to scan and flag any summary, comment, journal or wiki article that reproduces more than a certain percentage of linked content? Something like MIN(10%,100 words) seems pretty safe. There could be a whitelist of sites (such as Wikipedia) that could be excluded from
[01:47:34] <matt_> etc. :)
[01:47:38] <NCommander> Oh boy
[01:47:45] <NCommander> So, disclaimer on this one
[01:47:50] <NCommander> We're a US corporation, US Fair Use laws apply
[01:47:54] <NCommander> Please remember that during this discussion
[01:47:56] <NCommander> kthxbye
[01:48:17] <matt_> http://en.wikipedia.org
[01:48:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> Means, being a news organization, basically anything necessary for us to properly tell a story is fair game.
[01:48:31] <NCommander> matt_, note, fair use in the US is different than the rest of the world.
[01:48:52] <matt_> as usual, that wikipedia page is very U.S.-centric :)
[01:48:54] <paulej72> /. has the same types of stories as we do and it has not been an issue there
[01:48:57] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: seems to hinge on the word *necessary*
[01:49:06] <Bytram> paulej72: that we know of.
[01:49:15] * mrcoolbp notes Quickbooks is actually $249.95
[01:49:22] <mrcoolbp> = (
[01:49:23] <Bytram> besides that run-in they had with the c of scientolgy
[01:49:38] <Bytram> and ISTR there was a problem with msft
[01:49:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod. good rule of thumb is try not to copy an entire article unless it's only two paragraphs.
[01:49:48] <matt_> in a nutshell, courts decide fair-use on a case-by-case basis :/
[01:49:54] <matt_> TMB, agreed.
[01:50:02] <Bytram> and it coests quite a bit to get their opinion
[01:50:14] <Bytram> best to not get to that point
[01:50:31] <Bytram> one thing
[01:50:34] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, the fuck O_o;
[01:50:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> well, we are a public corporation. eventually we WILL be sued.
[01:50:37] <NCommander> Er
[01:50:38] <NCommander> ****
[01:50:46] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: do you want to re-vote that = )
[01:50:53] <Bytram> it's also important, I would think, to try and clearly note the source when we ARE copying something verbatim
[01:51:01] <matt_> TMB, technically, we are a private corporation :)
[01:51:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> public in the sense of interacting... rather than what matt_ ninja'd me on
[01:51:28] <mrcoolbp> public-facing
[01:51:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, them
[01:51:35] <Bytram> ^^^
[01:51:36] <NCommander> Honestly, as long as we're not copy and pasting large swatches of articles
[01:51:42] <NCommander> i.e., it doesn't look like one of my posts
[01:51:45] <NCommander> We should be fine
[01:51:49] <mrcoolbp> heh
[01:51:54] <NCommander> ANd if someone's legal department comes knocking, THEN we cross that bridge
[01:52:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> we can even use, dum dum dum, pictures if we like.
[01:52:10] <mrcoolbp> sure, the goal is to have a lawyer if we need it
[01:52:17] <matt_> NCommander, are you ok with the new quickbooks price that mrcoolbp mentioned above?
[01:52:18] <mrcoolbp> or money for a lawyer
[01:52:26] <mrcoolbp> $249.95
[01:52:32] <mrcoolbp> quickbooks ^
[01:52:47] <Bytram> plus s/h, tax, etc.?
[01:52:51] <NCommander> matt_, it sucks, but yeah
[01:52:51] <NCommander> I don't think we're getting around that
[01:52:56] <Bytram> I propose that we
[01:53:22] <Bytram> authorize mrcoolbp obtain a copy with a total cost not to exceed, say, $300
[01:53:38] <mrcoolbp> all in favor of ^
[01:53:40] <Bytram> anything more than that would require separate approval, and
[01:53:49] <Bytram> of course, if he can get a better price, go for it.
[01:53:59] <matt_> Aye!
[01:54:04] <mrcoolbp> Aye!
[01:54:05] <Blackmoore> Aye
[01:54:07] <NCommander> Aye
[01:54:09] <mrcoolbp> I'll look around a bit
[01:54:17] <matt_> Resolved: mrcoolbp is authorized to buy quickbooks up to a maximum of $300.
[01:54:22] <mrcoolbp> okay, so we are still on #4
[01:54:25] <mrcoolbp> right?
[01:54:27] * NCommander has a note to attach to Quickbooks
[01:54:33] <mrcoolbp> oh
[01:54:37] <NCommander> It should be licensed to the corp, and not mrcoolbp himself
[01:54:43] <NCommander> So we can move the seat around as needed
[01:54:43] <mrcoolbp> absolutely
[01:54:45] <matt_> correct.
[01:54:48] <Bytram> nod nod
[01:54:50] <NCommander> Just wanted to make that clear :)
[01:54:51] <Blackmoore> Aye
[01:54:54] <mrcoolbp> thanks
[01:55:03] <mrcoolbp> (Blackmoore: you don't have to vote = )
[01:55:12] <matt_> getting back to issue #4:
[01:55:17] <mrcoolbp> ^^^^
[01:55:51] <Bytram> though I like the *idea* of an automated system for discerning the amount of duplication...
[01:55:53] <matt_> is the consensus that we allow the editors to use their discretion up until the point that we receive a complaint from a copyright-holder?
[01:56:07] <matt_> ...and then reassess?
[01:56:09] <NCommander> Yeah
[01:56:12] <Bytram> coding it is non-trivial
[01:56:18] <NCommander> THere's not way to code something like that
[01:56:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> i suggest a policy of best judgment and run anything questionable by laminatorx
[01:56:20] <NCommander> Or more specifically
[01:56:26] <NCommander> If I could code something like that, I'd be really rich
[01:56:32] <Bytram> ^^^
[01:56:39] <mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard++
[01:56:52] <NCommander> In the entirity of /.'s history, I think they only ever had issues when people commented and posting the test of Scienologies OT3
[01:57:00] <NCommander> *text
[01:57:14] <Bytram> NCommander: I remember that one, but ISTR there was an issue with msft, too.
[01:57:35] <Bytram> but, I cannot at all recall the specifics
[01:57:37] <NCommander> Bytram, regardless, /. been around 20 something years, and never been stuck in a major legal battle on this front that we're aware of
[01:57:49] <Bytram> yes, that we are aware of.
[01:58:01] <Bytram> wait a sec
[01:58:06] <Bytram> I take that back
[01:58:24] <Bytram> I *DO* recall cmdrtaco mentioning on a couple of occasions mentioning
[01:58:29] <Bytram> having to do battle with lawyers
[01:58:44] <NCommander> Which is why we are raisng money to have a lawyer available if we need it
[01:58:46] <Bytram> to keep the site as open and freeeflowing as it was.
[01:58:55] <NCommander> But I'm not going to go absolute bonkers until we get there
[01:59:03] <matt_> this discussion is actually related to issue #5:
[01:59:09] <Bytram> I have not problem with having a lawyer,just making sure we are all coming from the same place.
[01:59:13] <matt_> Issue 5: We need a Service Provider Designation of Agent to Receive Notification of Claims of Infringement in order to shelter us from legal action in the event of a DMCA notice (see: [[1]] and [[2]])
[01:59:31] <mrcoolbp> probably end up being me, ug.
[01:59:41] <mrcoolbp> = )
[01:59:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> could be laminatorx if you really don't want it.
[01:59:54] <matt_> mrcoolbp, if you want, i can volunteer for this one.
[02:00:06] <mrcoolbp> matt_ that would be fine by me sir.
[02:00:18] <mrcoolbp> not going to volunteer LamX
[02:00:37] <Bytram> my sense is that matt_ has a better handle on the legal consequences and ramifications of any response we might make.
[02:00:58] <mrcoolbp> matt_: have you read the attached links? Your contact will be posted publicly
[02:00:59] <matt_> so, basically, we just send in a form to the US Copyright Office designating the official point of contact for takedown notices...
[02:01:11] <mrcoolbp> and like $40 bucks or something I think
[02:01:21] * Bytram nominates Bender
[02:01:22] * mrcoolbp can't remember
[02:01:27] <matt_> mrcoolbp, well, considering that the corporation's address is my address, i don't think i have much left to hide :)
[02:01:43] <mrcoolbp> matt_ tru, so yah, send in the form, small fee, and list contact info
[02:01:51] <matt_> mrcolbp, it's approximately $105 + $35
[02:01:57] <mrcoolbp> oh,
[02:01:59] <NCommander> Honestly, can't we put the address as our RA?
[02:02:03] <NCommander> Or failing that, matt_'s?
[02:02:13] <NCommander> His is public anyway due to it being on the articles of incorporation
[02:02:17] <matt_> ^^
[02:02:22] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: the address might be able to be our RA
[02:02:44] <matt_> mrcoolbp, they would just forward it to me anyway ;)
[02:02:49] <Bytram> RA == Resident Agent?
[02:02:55] <mrcoolbp> aye
[02:02:55] <matt_> registered agent
[02:03:00] <mrcoolbp> er that
[02:03:01] <Bytram> ah. thanks!
[02:03:16] <mrcoolbp> anyway, matt_ that would be great if you could volunteer, seems to make sense as to your last point
[02:03:42] <mrcoolbp> as for # 4, I think we will have a better idea after we get #2 wrapped up
[02:04:04] <matt_> All in favor of matt_ registering as our DMCA Agent?
[02:04:26] <mrcoolbp> Aye!
[02:04:30] <matt_> Aye!
[02:04:33] <NCommander> Aye
[02:04:36] <matt_> Resolved!
[02:04:38] <mrcoolbp> sweet
[02:04:45] <matt_> TODO: matt_, register as DMCA Agent
[02:05:46] <mrcoolbp> okay, so I think we'll need to revisit everything else, do we have anything further matt_ ?
[02:05:50] <matt_> so, that brings us to the end of the wiki agenda. i had two outstanding issues from the last meeting.
[02:05:57] <mrcoolbp> please
[02:06:02] <matt_> 1. getting mrcoolbp access to the BoA account.
[02:06:23] <mrcoolbp> would require us paying more
[02:06:28] <mrcoolbp> or sharing a loging
[02:06:30] <mrcoolbp> login
[02:06:40] <NCommander> We could have gone with Wells Fargo :-P
[02:06:41] <NCommander> *ducks*
[02:06:52] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: how much "more" are we talking about here?
[02:06:58] <NCommander> Oh, on that note
[02:07:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, i gave up liking them when they quit running stage coaches
[02:07:09] <NCommander> I will be able to get validated at a BOA in November
[02:07:11] <matt_> Bytram, $15/month or a higher average balance to avoid the fee.
[02:07:24] <matt_> NCommander, nice!
[02:07:31] <NCommander> ... I think we can approve $15/month :-P
[02:07:33] <Bytram> matt_: thanks. at this point, that's a not-insignificant chunk of change
[02:07:48] <matt_> NCommander, do you think that a shared login would be ok for now.
[02:07:55] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I'm hesistant to add more monthlies, one-timers is something else,
[02:08:02] <matt_> our banking transactions are all very traceable...
[02:08:03] <NCommander> matt_, as long as it doesn't violate some BOA thingy
[02:08:10] <mrcoolbp> hrm
[02:08:12] <NCommander> I rather not get our account locked up
[02:08:12] <matt_> none that i'm aware of.
[02:08:18] <NCommander> Then we can share an account
[02:08:25] <Bytram> perhaps with a caveat?
[02:08:45] <Bytram> only one person is authorized to perform transactions? the other can review?
[02:09:09] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: I have a card for transactions, I would only use to view account
[02:09:23] <mrcoolbp> if else, I'll check here or pester matt to do so
[02:09:32] <matt_> k. mrcoolbp, shall we coordinate this between ourselves?
[02:09:33] <Bytram> that allows access, for both, but retains a trail of who did what, even though two people would technically have benn able to do something with the login
[02:09:37] <mrcoolbp> matt_ yes
[02:09:46] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: agreed, nicely said
[02:10:05] <Bytram> thanks
[02:10:07] <matt_> item 2: take necessary steps to get wildcard cert.
[02:10:15] <mrcoolbp> ah yes
[02:10:20] <Bytram> umm, what was the decision on 1?
[02:10:36] <mrcoolbp> bytram, we deffered
[02:10:45] <Bytram> okay, tahnks.
[02:10:45] <matt_> Bytram, that we would share a login for now, and that mrcoolbp and I would coordinate this.
[02:10:50] <mrcoolbp> oh wait, you mean that ^
[02:11:19] <Bytram> and, at this point, only matt_ is authorized to perform transactions with the login?
[02:11:44] <NCommander> (brb, 2 minutes)
[02:11:44] <mrcoolbp> right
[02:11:47] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: k
[02:11:53] <matt_> Bytram, both mrcoolbp and i are signers on the account, so we can both perform transactions.
[02:11:59] <mrcoolbp> (with cards)
[02:12:01] <matt_> we both have debit cards.
[02:12:03] <Bytram> but mrcoolbp can still use the debit card, as necessary/authorized.
[02:12:07] <mrcoolbp> yup
[02:12:24] <Bytram> okay, thanks!
[02:12:31] <mrcoolbp> matt, Bytram meant through the login
[02:12:41] <matt_> ah.
[02:12:42] <Bytram> ^^^
[02:13:03] <mrcoolbp> matt_ so the idea is you want to try to migrate the whois right?
[02:13:18] <matt_> so, to recap the plan from our last meeting:
[02:13:36] <Bytram> btw, it been almost an hour in; any thoughts of a "bio break" for, say five minutes?
[02:13:43] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: go
[02:13:49] <Bytram> k, back soon.
[02:13:57] <matt_> basically, as a temporary solution, we can _authorize_ SoylentNews PBC to apply for and obtain certificates for the domains, even without a transfer.
[02:14:06] Blackmoore is now known as blackmoore|afk
[02:14:06] <mrcoolbp> right
[02:14:16] * NCommander is back
[02:15:20] <matt_> to do this, we just need me to write a letter to NC authorizing it, which i can do by this weekend.
[02:15:55] <NCommander> matt_, I think so?
[02:16:06] <NCommander> Ugh, we'd probably have to deal with the register and see what they want
[02:16:11] <NCommander> WHich is irritating as ****
[02:16:14] <matt_> although not strictly necessary, i do think that it would be a good idea to change the whois, simply because having it as "Peter Walsh" is not good...
[02:16:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> sounds too easy for something that's been a sticking point this long. how can we further complicate it so it takes another month?
[02:16:27] <NCommander> I'll finish the OV sometime this week
[02:16:41] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I'll fire myself into the sun
[02:16:46] <Bytram> back
[02:17:17] <matt_> NCommander, I propose that we list you as the "Administrative Contact" for the domains, which, combined with my letter, should be all the CA could reasonably require.
[02:18:04] <NCommander> Sorry, I had an internet failure
[02:18:08] <NCommander> matt_, that should work
[02:18:15] <Bytram> sonds good to me.
[02:18:18] <mrcoolbp> ack
[02:18:20] <Bytram> s/sonds/sounds/
[02:18:20] <matt_> if it doesn't we can just try something else :)
[02:18:24] <paulej72> speeking of the domains, can we set *.soylennews.com to point to soylentnews.org
[02:18:31] <mrcoolbp> ^^^
[02:18:34] <Bytram> ^^^
[02:18:40] <matt_> ^^^
[02:18:42] <Bytram> we had a user comment to that effect.
[02:19:11] <NCommander> I think we own that domain
[02:19:14] <NCommander> So yeah
[02:19:27] <paulej72> matt has the access to that
[02:19:29] <Bytram> well, it does have the same Peter Walsh
[02:19:32] <matt_> the zone file is on linode, right?
[02:19:42] <matt_> or is it using the gandi zone file?
[02:19:46] <mrcoolbp> linode
[02:19:47] <paulej72> only for .org
[02:19:52] * mrcoolbp thinks
[02:20:09] <paulej72> .com must be on gandi
[02:20:21] <matt_> ok, we should be able to fix that.
[02:20:38] <mrcoolbp> hmm
[02:20:53] <Bytram> paulej72: it is...
[02:20:54] <Bytram> Connecting to COM.whois-servers.net...
[02:20:54] <Bytram> Connecting to whois.gandi.net...
[02:20:54] <Bytram> Domain ID: 1845913633_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
[02:20:54] <Bytram> Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.gandi.net
[02:20:54] <Bytram> Registrar URL: http://www.gandi.net
[02:20:56] <Bytram> Updated Date: 2014-03-10T20:23:57Z
[02:20:58] <Bytram> Creation Date: 2014-02-09T01:50:26Z
[02:21:00] <Bytram> Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2015-02-09T01:50:26Z
[02:21:02] <Bytram> Registrar: GANDI SAS
[02:21:04] <Bytram> Registrar IANA ID: 81
[02:21:06] <Bytram> Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@support.gandi.net
[02:21:08] <Bytram> Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +33.170377661
[02:21:17] <NCommander> eek
[02:21:18] <NCommander> Use a pastebin
[02:21:23] <Bytram> sry.
[02:21:27] <mrcoolbp> lol
[02:21:33] <matt_> this was the last item that i had for the board meeting, so if there are no other items, we could adjourn and get to fixing that
[02:21:42] <Bytram> matt_: I've got two thinkgs
[02:21:43] <mrcoolbp> I"m good with that
[02:21:44] <mrcoolbp> oh
[02:21:50] <mrcoolbp> Bytram you have the floore
[02:21:54] <Bytram> thanks
[02:22:16] <Bytram> 1.) we have users who are in a positon to provide addiotnal funding, but no way to provide it to us easily
[02:22:26] <mrcoolbp> they can buy additional years
[02:22:31] <Bytram> is there a reason why wee could not, say, let someone pay for our hosting for one month?
[02:22:31] <mrcoolbp> = )
[02:22:55] <mrcoolbp> bytram: they can just buy 20 years subscription
[02:22:55] <Bytram> and add something on the homepage saying "Hosting for this month provided by: foo"
[02:23:12] <mrcoolbp> matt_ I'm not sure on this ^
[02:23:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> That we could actually do. Call it selling a vanity space on the site.
[02:23:25] <Bytram> so, it's not a "donation" so no legal problems, there. and they are getting something for the payment.
[02:23:31] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:23:46] <Bytram> if someone wants to pay for the whole year, well, smile!
[02:24:03] <matt_> Bytram, indeed. it would be a form of advertisement.
[02:24:11] <Bytram> ding ding ding
[02:24:11] <juggs> that sounds good if the legalities allow
[02:24:21] <mrcoolbp> ^
[02:24:24] <matt_> i doubt that the community would object (don't quote me on that :)
[02:24:33] <Bytram> juggs: that was my main concern, but I can't hitnk of any legal holes in it.
[02:24:34] * mrcoolbp quotes you on that
[02:24:44] <Bytram> !grab matt_
[02:24:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh some of them would object to being given $20 but mostly not
[02:25:04] <paulej72> we can put a meesage in the footer
[02:25:05] <juggs> Bytram, me either, I'm hardly concious of UK corp regs let alone US stuff
[02:25:24] <matt_> would we be ok with the front page saying: "This month's hosting brought to you by: Microsoft Corporation"?
[02:25:41] <mrcoolbp> uh, not if it's at the bottom
[02:25:44] <mrcoolbp> = )
[02:25:54] <Bytram> make it a new option on the user settings page to show/hide the "advert"
[02:26:00] <mrcoolbp> hah
[02:26:01] <NCommander> I want to make sure we're not skirting stuff on donations
[02:26:03] <NCommander> */2 cents*
[02:26:12] <juggs> premium price for above the fold info box, less for a footer :D
[02:26:12] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: yeah that's a big "if"
[02:26:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, we are but only in the way that thousands of other companies have already paved the way for.
[02:26:35] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: but if it's billed as Ads, then, meh, right?
[02:26:43] <Bytram> from what I've seen so far, if we rely solely on donations, we're not going to last the year.
[02:27:01] <mrcoolbp> bytram: actually, if we keep at the pace we are going, we'll be fine
[02:27:14] <mrcoolbp> bytram, our goal includes a lot of one-time startup stuff
[02:27:27] <Bytram> and, as to the question as to whether I'd object to a notice saying "brought to you by MS", I'd really not mind.
[02:27:31] <mrcoolbp> bytram: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[02:27:43] <mrcoolbp> $3,600 for server hosting for one year
[02:27:52] <mrcoolbp> we are at $2,040 right now
[02:28:17] <Bytram> yes, but if someone comes up with the funding for the hosting, that frees up money for lawyers, etc.
[02:28:25] <mrcoolbp> absolutely
[02:28:27] <matt_> we should be clear in the policy doc. about our stance on editorial independence (i.e., independence from advertisers' influence)
[02:28:40] <Bytram> matt_++ yes, indeed.
[02:28:51] <mrcoolbp> someone note that please
[02:29:01] <matt_> Bytram, until you start seeing a lot of pro-MS stories being posted :)
[02:29:08] <Bytram> meh
[02:29:19] * Bytram is an editor. =)
[02:29:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> helps that our editors aren't paid. hard to corrupt someone until you pay them.
[02:29:44] * Bytram unchecks the [ ] display check box
[02:29:55] <Bytram> what MS stories?
[02:29:58] <Bytram> =)
[02:30:04] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: what was item #2?
[02:30:05] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: exactly.
[02:30:11] <Bytram> yeah, hodl on
[02:30:20] <mrcoolbp> we are running later than matt_ was hopoing
[02:30:22] * Bytram is trying to remember
[02:30:35] * matt_ slaps himself awake
[02:30:48] <Bytram> oh, the policy doc says that board meetings are listed in the "Site News" box at least a week in advance of the meeting.
[02:30:53] * NCommander injects matt_ with coffee
[02:31:00] <Bytram> just want to make sure, when we come up with the next meeting date/time
[02:31:05] <Bytram> that we update that.
[02:31:08] <Bytram> that's it.
[02:31:15] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I've got 10000 Phillipian Pesos ready to bride the editoral team
[02:31:21] <NCommander> and a few million dong if more motivation is required
[02:31:45] <mrcoolbp> bytram: I thought we were doing that, I even changed everything (I think) when I had to push it forward due to issues outside my control)
[02:31:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> so, you could probably buy laminatorx a beer then?
[02:31:45] <Bytram> no comment
[02:32:00] <Bytram> I didn't see the notice appear until a couple days ago.
[02:32:06] <matt_> TheMightyBuzzard, how goes the work on accepting bitcoin?
[02:32:12] <mrcoolbp> ^&
[02:32:13] <Bytram> anyway that was the 2nd point./
[02:32:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> matt_, it's ready for the 14.10 rollout as of today.
[02:32:22] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: got it, thanks
[02:32:27] <matt_> nice!
[02:32:27] <mrcoolbp> yay!
[02:32:28] <Bytram> np
[02:33:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> tested it with live bitcoin on dev today, NCommander is now a sub on dev until 2017
[02:33:06] <NCommander> I am?
[02:33:07] <NCommander> Neat.
[02:33:08] <paulej72> the question you should now have is when will 14.10 be ready :)
[02:33:19] <Bytram> paulej72: when will 14.10 be ready?
[02:33:25] * NCommander defers that to paulej72 since I haven't managed to do any dev work this cycle
[02:33:33] <mrcoolbp> matt_ can you check BoA to see if there are some new $0.01 transacs ?
[02:33:41] <matt_> checking...
[02:33:49] <paulej72> depends what we want to add to it?
[02:33:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> technically we could roll it out any time we like but it's going to be kind of thin right now.
[02:34:24] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: there's nothing wrong with having a "thin" update; all the better to isolate problems when a bigger one comes along
[02:34:29] <matt_> mrcoolbp, none yet.
[02:34:30] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, kinda thin?
[02:34:33] <mrcoolbp> = /
[02:34:38] <NCommander> Honestly, I don't mind if its a thin update
[02:34:45] <NCommander> 14.08 was very late, and was a big update
[02:34:53] <matt_> mrcoolbp, last transaction: $209.52 transfer from paypal on 9/30.
[02:35:19] <mrcoolbp> k
[02:35:21] <mrcoolbp> matt_ current balance?
[02:35:21] <Bytram> what is ready to go out in 14.10? I ask as I've been tied up with outside stuff a bit and haven't done much QA work.
[02:35:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'd like to get like two or three more issues cleared first. call it a 14.10.08 instead of 14.10.01.
[02:35:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> but that's entirely up to you and pj
[02:35:35] <matt_> mrcoolbp, $1969.61
[02:35:39] <mrcoolbp> k
[02:35:44] <NCommander> Bytram, honestly, I think the only thing going in is bitpay support
[02:35:51] <NCommander> whcih will give us money, which is a valid reason to release an update :-)
[02:35:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> some bug fixes but mostly yeah
[02:36:12] <Bytram> agreed on getting money being a good enough reason.
[02:36:27] * TheMightyBuzzard shrugs
[02:36:32] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: I've got a couple minor bugs to report that could go in, too.
[02:36:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> .01 it is then
[02:36:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> or as near as is feasible.
[02:36:54] <Bytram> mostly typos/capitalization etc.
[02:37:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, catch me in the morning. i likely wouldn't remember now even with a sticky note on my forehead.
[02:37:24] <Bytram> same as in the past, roll it out on the weekend when things are quieter?
[02:37:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> probably. pj?
[02:37:45] <paulej72> yes weekend
[02:37:49] <mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: there are 4 1-cent transacs in bitpay, nothing in the account yet
[02:37:52] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: /me has an early morning at work; would prolly be thurs am sometime
[02:38:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> mrcoolbp, they won't do a transfer of less than $20
[02:38:09] <mrcoolbp> ah
[02:38:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> which works out really nice with our price point
[02:38:20] <mrcoolbp> = )
[02:39:06] <matt_> ok, any other business for the board meeting?
[02:39:08] <mrcoolbp> okay, well I think we can adjourn now, though I'm not sure matt has time for the whois migration
[02:39:32] <NCommander> I'm not up to it
[02:39:37] <NCommander> Sorry
[02:39:46] <NCommander> matt_, I can send you my information for it
[02:40:02] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: just setup a time you can be online when he does it
[02:40:10] <mrcoolbp> just in case
[02:40:12] <matt_> well, i won't be able to get that letter together until the weekend, so perhaps we should get it all taken care of then?
[02:40:51] <NCommander> ++
[02:40:55] <NCommander> I can try and get OV done by then
[02:40:56] <Bytram> hmmm, an idea...
[02:40:56] <Bytram> subscription is currently $20/year
[02:40:56] <Bytram> what if we announced that there was an increase coming in one month where it goes up to $25/year?
[02:40:57] <Bytram> that would pull some in quicker from those who have been procrastinating?
[02:40:58] <Bytram> no prob. thought I'd mention it.
[02:40:59] <NCommander> (organization verification)
[02:40:59] <Bytram> that's all I've got.
[02:41:01] <Bytram> if we can decide the date/time of the next meeting within 5 minutes, we'll have finished the meeting in 90 minutes.
[02:41:19] <mrcoolbp> lol
[02:41:50] <mrcoolbp> let's go with 2 weeks from today, 6 or 7pm ?
[02:42:12] <mrcoolbp> Oct 14
[02:42:16] <matt_> either time is fine for me.
[02:42:22] <matt_> NCommander, will you be around this weekend?
[02:43:19] <NCommander> matt_, possibly
[02:43:25] <NCommander> matt_, discuss in private
[02:43:39] <matt_> k.
[02:43:50] <NCommander> matt_, if you could join #chillax :-)
[02:43:52] * mrcoolbp moves to adjourn
[02:44:16] <matt_> seconds
[02:44:27] * NCommander thirds
[02:44:42] <matt_> All in favour of adjourning?
[02:44:43] <mrcoolbp> Aye!
[02:44:43] <matt_> Aye!
[02:45:17] -!- bryan has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[02:45:29] <mrcoolbp> Thanks TheMightyBuzzard, juggs, paulej72, Bytram, matt_, NCommander and anyone else I missed = )
[02:45:36] -!- bryan [bryan!~bryan@34-882-308-68.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #staff
[02:45:47] * mrcoolbp waves to bryan
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[02:46:09] -!- mode/#staff [+v Bytram] by juggler
[02:46:11] <juggs> np - always interesting to see things progress
[02:46:42] <mrcoolbp> hola bryan, como estas?
[02:46:50] <mrcoolbp> juggs: we appreciate the input
[02:47:10] <juggs> ha - I think I said one thing :)
[02:47:23] <mrcoolbp> still
[02:47:43] * mrcoolbp goes to buy Quickbooks
[02:48:05] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: my connection just hiccupped; what did we decide the next board meeting date/time was?
[02:48:33] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: is Oct 14th at 7pm okay for you?
[02:48:57] <Bytram> no, not really. I have an appointment from 7:30-80:30.
[02:49:17] <Bytram> I could, if need be, skip it, but I would prefer not to.
[02:49:49] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: pm
[03:09:48] <Bytram> .op
[03:09:48] -!- mode/#staff [+o Bytram] by juggler
[03:10:38] Bytram changed topic of #staff to: Everyone that doesn't have a voice or operator status in this channel: your messages will be forwarded to the channel ops (if there are none, feel free to PM an active user in the channel). | This channel is logged: http://logs.sylnt.us | SN PBC Board Meeting - Wednesday, Oct. 15 at 1:15am UTC (Tue, Oct. 140 at 9:15pm EDT) in #staff, all are welcome
[03:10:41] <Bytram> .deop
[03:10:41] -!- mode/#staff [-o Bytram] by juggler
[03:36:42] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
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[16:37:01] Blackmoore is now known as blackmoore|lunch
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[21:54:20] Blackmoore is now known as blackmoore|zzz
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