#staff | Logs for 2014-03-30

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[00:15:49] <paulej72> found out why I was not getting mod points, my setting were set to not moderate
[00:30:24] <paulej72> off to get food
[00:32:10] <NCommander> paulej72, lol
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[01:07:08] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: you around?
[01:07:45] <xlefay> What's up?
[01:08:07] <xlefay> Got about 3 mins
[01:08:19] <mrcoolbp> okay...
[01:08:59] <mrcoolbp> for the staff-communication system, do we need to do more research? Should we hold a vote? what are your thought?
[01:09:02] <mrcoolbp> thoughs*
[01:10:14] <mrcoolbp> thoughts*
[01:10:22] <mrcoolbp> ....ug sorry I'm wicked burnt out
[01:10:23] <xlefay> Well, there's a lot of infos about the systems on Wikipedia, least I remember it being linked. I'd say, check that out, decide which ones are the best three or so, name them + links to their demo's on the mailing list and see what people say, afterwards hold a vote
[01:10:44] <mrcoolbp> okay
[01:11:28] <xlefay> I'd say, that's about it. (most of these programs are in use on the website on which one can download it, so we could just link there for a demo, others have specific demo listed)
[01:11:42] <mrcoolbp> right
[01:12:00] * mrcoolbp is wondering if he's the best person to make the call which is best
[01:12:01] <cosurgi> we can try our brand new voting system :)
[01:12:07] <mrcoolbp> right cosurgi
[01:13:18] <xlefay> I'll be back in a bit, gotta go for now
[01:13:20] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: thanks, I'll talk to you soon!
[01:15:42] <cosurgi> gotta sleep, goodnight :)
[01:16:30] <mrcoolbp> goodnight
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[01:18:16] <mrcoolbp> .op
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[01:21:51] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: can we get an official decision that we'll be using audioguys voting system for staff democratic decisions?
[01:22:41] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, s
[01:22:46] <mrcoolbp> gracias
[01:22:48] <xlefay> psst: we should have a vote about that ;-)
[01:22:53] <mrcoolbp> xlefay!
[01:22:59] * NCommander vetos xlefay
[01:23:02] <mrcoolbp> nice.
[01:23:25] <NCommander> ugh
[01:23:31] * NCommander is suffering from writers block
[01:23:54] * mrcoolbp is suffering from sleep deprivation
[01:24:22] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I have a lot on my plate but I'm moving the staff meetings, communications systems, and name vote to the top
[01:24:46] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I'll try to do all 3 concurrently, which would you say should be done first?
[01:24:51] * xlefay waits for the postgresql check that's pending before actually leaving
[01:25:20] * NCommander strikes Nebraska Press Association v. Stuart as a cause I'm going to write up
[01:25:49] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, name vote
[01:25:54] <mrcoolbp> k
[01:29:00] <NCommander> I'm seeing a very good case for us to be incorporated in New Hamisphere
[01:31:03] <xlefay> "60 OK" pretty good beginning so far
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[01:35:45] <NCommander> xlefay, very good
[01:35:48] <NCommander> xlefay, awesome
[01:36:26] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: since no one has replied WRT the name vote, I'll go with your decision to require people to register domains, and
[01:36:38] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: ...donate no strings attached
[01:36:48] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, why the ...?
[01:36:57] * mrcoolbp hit enter by mistake
[01:37:05] <NCommander> oh, I thought you were unhappy about that
[01:37:10] * NCommander is still open to feedback
[01:37:25] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, let me review the final writeup before we go live. Want to make sure we're on the final page lest we look stupid infront of the community
[01:37:38] <mrcoolbp> yes sir.
[01:37:48] <mrcoolbp> I'll work up a draft tonight
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[01:37:59] <mrcoolbp> trying to get in touch with audioguy WRT to that right now
[01:38:07] <xlefay> Still have the same position on it as when I gave you the suggestion, this way people will only make actual suggestions that they care about, keep the "name list" low, etc
[01:38:32] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: seems like the way to go
[01:38:32] <xlefay> anyhow, gotta go forrealz now, gotta do some stuff in the house :~/
[01:38:41] <mrcoolbp> okay, see you soon I hope
[01:38:51] <bytram|away> xlefay: Hi! Bye!
[01:38:57] <xlefay> Yeah ;)
[01:39:00] bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[01:39:11] <xlefay> bytram|away, don't look at the monitoring :P
[01:39:25] <Bytram> xlefay: umm, why not?
[01:39:27] * xlefay notes, the monitoring is now about 50% complete or so
[01:39:42] <Bytram> !woop
[01:39:43] <PoeticWarlord> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[01:40:05] <Bytram> xlefay: that's a tremendous amount of progress! well done!
[01:40:21] <xlefay> ooh before I go, NCommander someone (not quite remember who) floated some ideas about having the Icinga/Nagios stuff do SQL queries, can we give it read-only access on production? We might be able to add some awesomeness!
[01:40:22] <mrcoolbp> bytram, sup?
[01:40:50] * xlefay notes there'll be an IRC bot for it.. it'd be totally awesome if it were to announce "Warning - 5000 members!" etc. ;D
[01:41:07] <Bytram> not much... tired. put in a 13hr day yesterday, and didn't sleep well last night. I'm sure I'll sleep fine tonight!
[01:41:18] <NCommander> xlefay, I can create a read only reader
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[01:41:54] <mrcoolbp> bytram: same here!
[01:41:58] <mrcoolbp> literally...
[01:42:10] <mrcoolbp> actually my 13 hour day was today
[01:42:14] <NCommander> xlefay, holy shit, this looks awesome
[01:42:16] <Bytram> oy!
[01:42:17] * mrcoolbp is trying to hang on
[01:42:42] <Bytram> that sounds like a plan!
[01:43:00] <Bytram> set a time in advance... and call it quits, then.
[01:43:12] <xlefay> That would be awesome! I'll check in with you for the infos in a bit when I return, also since both Carbon & Boron run PostgreSQL, I'll set up some replication between the two of them (thinking about a failover too, so that when it's time and we're finally ready to switch to postgresql, least I'll know what the hell I'm doing .. yes, I like to be prepared ha) :)
[01:43:12] <xlefay> IT DOES, DOESN'T IT!!
[01:43:14] * xlefay <3's it
[01:43:17] <Bytram> I'm aiming for about 45 minutes from now.
[01:43:34] <xlefay> host group overview = neat
[01:43:37] <mrcoolbp> bytram: I'm aiming for whenever I fall asleep at the keyboard
[01:43:55] * xlefay notes it's pretty obvious that Ubuntu is most of our infra ;)
[01:44:18] * Bytram will keep eyes peeled for random character entry...
[01:44:26] <mrcoolbp> thanks
[01:44:49] <xlefay> As a last note, what's really nice, NCommander, is that when there's an issue, we can add notes and stuff in Icinga (as long as that's not down... that is) - so in a few years, we'll be able to look back and still see it
[01:45:05] <xlefay> + my idea about automatically generating status.soylentnews.org stuff when there's something critical going on ;)
[01:45:48] <NCommander> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[01:46:25] <Bytram> xlefay: I see 2 PostgresSQL servers... I thought we ran on mysql? Or are those just not yet monitored?
[01:47:09] <mrcoolbp> Landon: can you register for the staff voting list? http://staff.soylentnews.org
[01:47:51] <xlefay> Bytram, the MySQL crap isn't monitored. The PostgreSQL servers are for other stuff.
[01:47:52] <NCommander> Bytram, icinga runs on postgres
[01:48:05] <NCommander> xlefay, do you want a reader now on the database?
[01:48:23] <NCommander> xlefay, and does it need access to the soylentnews DB?
[01:48:23] <Bytram> aha! got it! thanks!!!
[01:48:26] <xlefay> Carbon has it, because of stuff I'm considering making and as for Icinga, it *can* monitor to PostgreSQL which it does now for historical purposes and stuff
[01:48:34] <xlefay> NCommander, yes please
[01:48:43] * NCommander fires up helium
[01:48:56] * Bytram hears NCommander talk funny
[01:49:50] <mrcoolbp> heh
[01:49:52] <NCommander> xlefay, what do you need?
[01:50:16] <xlefay> http://www.imgdumper.nl for those, who don't have the access, here's a little preview :P
[01:50:32] <xlefay> also, don't look at my terminals.. you might notice a double icinga reload...
[01:50:52] <xlefay> NCommander, not sure yet, I think I'll snoop around the db and see for nice things to add in the monitor, is that ok?
[01:51:13] <xlefay> e.g. job queue and stuff is in the db if I recall correct, etc. Those sorta things :)
[01:51:18] <NCommander> xlefay, use phpmyadmin to create a new user.
[01:51:47] <xlefay> Ok, I will reluctantly go into phpmyadmin when I return :p
[01:52:19] <NCommander> xlefay, I'll do it for you, just tell me what you need when you need it
[01:52:50] <xlefay> I'd say, a read-only user that can access the production DB to run queries, should be save enough?
[01:52:57] * xlefay asks since it's MySQL........
[01:53:11] <xlefay> wait. It may be best if we start with Dev
[01:53:26] <xlefay> if I then run a query MySQL can't stomach, least prod won't get killed
[01:54:56] <NCommander> xlefay, likely a good idea
[01:55:26] <xlefay> I don't know about you, but I wouldn't trust MySQL if my life depended on it
[01:55:45] * xlefay is a genuine PostgreSQL fan boy.
[01:55:59] <xlefay> Can you PM me the stuff, I really oughta get going :<
[01:58:34] <NCommander> xlefay, cya
[03:16:36] <NCommander> Muffins
[03:16:42] <NCommander> They're awesome
[03:16:51] <mrcoolbp> agreed
[03:18:57] <mrcoolbp> bytram: got a second?
[03:19:13] <Bytram> sure!
[03:19:33] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: sure!
[03:20:01] <mrcoolbp> we are researching staff communication methods: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[03:20:20] <mrcoolbp> at the bottom of that page, if you have time, take a look at the options we have thus far
[03:20:57] <Bytram> k. just aminute... winding up some wiki changes.
[03:21:03] <mrcoolbp> trying to narrow down the options
[03:21:07] <mrcoolbp> Cool, no problem
[03:21:42] <Bytram> string and tin cans have my vote.
[03:23:28] <mrcoolbp> heh
[03:23:29] <mrcoolbp> noted
[03:23:40] <NCommander> Bytram, thanks for editing
[03:24:20] <Bytram> NCommander: you're welcome! I see you added some things, so I just finished making a pass thorugh the document. I have a couple questions marked in-line.
[03:24:41] <NCommander> Bytram, I'm working my way through this. This exercise is proving to be extremely benefical
[03:24:54] * NCommander thought the issue of bloggers == journalists was decided on a federal level. It wasn't.
[03:25:14] <mrcoolbp> interesting
[03:25:33] <mrcoolbp> so it is "undecided" or "partially decided?"
[03:25:49] <Bytram> NCommander: agreed! It's amazing to me how much I remember of the stuff I learned back in secondary school!
[03:26:27] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: I believe it has not yet come up for a decision at that level, yet. NCommander is that right?
[03:26:30] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, its been argued in the state of Oregon and in the state of NH
[03:26:50] <NCommander> Bytram, the OR case is trying to appeal to SCOTUS, but they haven't accepted celeborti yet
[03:26:51] <Bytram> NCommander: but not yet at the Federal level, right?
[03:27:19] <Bytram> change venue to hollyood... plenty of selebrotis ther!
[03:27:32] <NCommander> Bad idea, Hollywood hates new media :-)
[03:27:43] <NCommander> Bytram, it will have to go to the supreme court for a binding judgement across all districts. A decided in the federal level is only binding in its circuit
[03:28:03] <Bytram> NH also has the advanatage of having a very strong attachment to their motto(?) "Live free or die".
[03:28:22] * NCommander wants a Live Free or Die "SOYLENTNW" license plate
[03:29:02] <NCommander> Bytram, if NH proves to be the state we incorporate in, I'll probably move to Portsmouth to see it through
[03:29:29] <Bytram> NCommander: sadly, that's too many letters...
[03:29:58] <Bytram> SYLNTNWS might fit.
[03:30:10] * NCommander wonders if "PEOPLE" is taken
[03:31:36] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: I looked at the page... don't know if there is much I can add to it...
[03:32:20] <Bytram> I made some comments to someone's journal(?) article about a proposed voting system using e-mail...
[03:32:24] <mrcoolbp> bytram: okay so what I'm looking for is research into each option (exclude slash for now)
[03:32:37] <mrcoolbp> bytram: this is only for communication, not voting
[03:32:42] <Bytram> I've looked, briefly at modifying pollbooth, am getting stuck on what we want it to look like.
[03:32:49] <Bytram> k
[03:32:57] <mrcoolbp> go to the "Staff Communication heading"
[03:33:00] <NCommander> Bytram, less ugly?
[03:33:01] <mrcoolbp> ignore slash for now
[03:33:14] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: that would be a start
[03:33:15] <NCommander> I'm tempted just to use audioguy's system for the vote
[03:33:18] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: k
[03:33:21] <NCommander> public vote
[03:33:26] <NCommander> If he feels its up for the job
[03:33:40] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: we are trying to get that working for the public votes, timeframe is at least a week though
[03:33:46] <Bytram> NCommander: which/what is "less ugly?"
[03:33:52] <mrcoolbp> polllbooth
[03:34:32] <mrcoolbp> bytram: if you could look at the options under " Staff Communication" on that wiki page, pick the "best" 3 or so and tell me why
[03:34:35] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I think we can wait a week.
[03:34:48] <mrcoolbp> bytram: remember what we "need" (NO JS etc.)
[03:34:50] * NCommander isn't *thrilled* about that, but as long as we're communicating, we're good
[03:35:00] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I know, he's working really hard at it
[03:35:09] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, he's earning beer points with me
[03:35:13] <mrcoolbp> oh yeah
[03:35:36] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: let's debate: staff communications: why not slash?
[03:35:40] <Bytram> I think audioguy had a blog post about it with sample code(?)... i raised some questions that need answering no matter how we run the poll.
[03:35:41] <mrcoolbp> go.
[03:36:05] <mrcoolbp> bytram, yes I remember that, let me look up that email
[03:36:10] <mrcoolbp> give me a second
[03:36:39] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, what do we communicate on staff slash vs. mailing list
[03:36:40] <Bytram> Yes, why not use slash? we already had this discussion with, I believe MrBluze. Size chat on IRC, put summary on slash.
[03:37:15] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: the mailing list is kinda crazy right now, I have a lot of stuff in my inbox and I'm loosing track
[03:37:16] <Bytram> provides a consistent "archive" of the same information in the same arrangement so we can all see the same thing.
[03:37:38] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: the mailing list is nice for announcements, but not for back and forth communication
[03:37:43] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: ^^^^ same here! It's just going into one big bad bit bucket.
[03:37:56] <NCommander> Fuck
[03:38:03] <mrcoolbp> NCommnader: I assume everyone else in staff is getting overwhleme--- what???
[03:38:11] <NCommander> Bytram, mrcoolbp: the cox case WAS decided in federal court
[03:38:14] <NCommander> It hasn't been appealed
[03:38:14] <NCommander> Shit
[03:38:27] <NCommander> Seal of the U.S. District Court for the District of Oregon.gif
[03:38:27] <NCommander> United States District Court for the District of Oregon
[03:38:33] <Bytram> which case is that?
[03:38:51] <NCommander> Bytram, https://en.wikipedia.org
[03:38:51] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: that sucks, let's focus though
[03:38:57] <Bytram> this one: Obsidian Finance Group, LLC v. Cox (2011 - Oregon)
[03:38:57] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I was focusing on this
[03:39:03] * NCommander is trying to get the writeup successful
[03:39:07] <mrcoolbp> true.
[03:41:08] <mrcoolbp> bytram: is this the email you are talking about starting with "Are we seriously thinking about handing over our entire database of member e-mail
[03:41:08] <mrcoolbp> addresses to an outside party?"
[03:42:02] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, let me finish this train of thought
[03:42:24] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: let me rummage around a bit, but that sounds right, I think... hold on
[03:42:34] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: no prob, I'll be on for a few hours
[03:43:38] <mrcoolbp> bytram: standing by
[03:43:47] <Bytram> plese be seated
[03:44:04] <mrcoolbp> heh
[03:46:18] <mrcoolbp> BRB FOOD
[03:46:27] <Bytram> found it!
[03:46:40] <Bytram> it was by prospectacle...
[03:46:49] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, ok, train of thought committed
[03:46:53] <mrcoolbp> lol
[03:47:03] <Bytram> it starts at: http://soylentnews.org
[03:47:05] <mrcoolbp> okay give me 2 minutes 36 seconds
[03:47:14] <NCommander> k
[03:47:46] <Bytram> and I had comments, here: http://soylentnews.org
[03:49:27] * Bytram hears jeopardy music
[03:50:29] <mrcoolbp> okay back
[03:50:31] <mrcoolbp> did I make it?
[03:50:38] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, wb
[03:50:43] <mrcoolbp> thanks
[03:50:47] <Bytram> wb!
[03:51:22] <mrcoolbp> Okay NCommander: the mailing list is kinda crazy right now, I have a lot of stuff in my inbox and I'm loosing track
[03:51:22] <mrcoolbp> <+Bytram> provides a consistent "archive" of the same information in the same arrangement so we can all see the same thing. The mailing list is nice for announcements, but not for back and forth communication
[03:51:33] <mrcoolbp> oops
[03:51:48] <mrcoolbp> anyway that's where we left off
[03:52:15] <Bytram> so we were discussing slash for staff communication and the cox case right?
[03:52:26] <mrcoolbp> bytram: reading the questions on that comment now
[03:52:31] <Bytram> as well as voting protocols, in general.
[03:53:24] <Bytram> I've read *some* on different voting methodologies and can attest that there is a *lot* more to it than first meets the eye. Minor tweaks can introduce massive pathological cases.
[03:53:43] <mrcoolbp> bytram: audioguy has coded his own email-voting-system from scratch using shell scripts, there's a bunch of information about it I can dig up for you
[03:53:58] <mrcoolbp> start here: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[03:54:09] <Bytram> k
[03:54:34] <MrBluze> Bytram: agreed, voting methods are generally designed to rig elections, one way or another
[03:54:35] <Bytram> fyi, I've got about 5 more minutes and then am off for the evening.
[03:55:01] <Bytram> MrBluze++ # +1 inciteful
[03:55:02] <PoeticWarlord> karma - mrbluze: 4
[03:55:29] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: basically the mailing list is disorganized, slash (for example) provides a method for clear replies, allows you to skip over certain things more easily, is less of a burden (not clogging your inbox) etc.
[03:55:49] <MrBluze> hmm
[03:55:57] <mrcoolbp> MrBluze: true, but no system is perfect
[03:56:02] <MrBluze> perhaps the dev or testing branch of the site can be used as the discussion site also
[03:56:09] <Bytram> allows someone joining later to get an overview of the thought-making process
[03:56:10] <MrBluze> it will then force us to make sure things are working while we chat about stuff
[03:56:14] <mrcoolbp> MrBluze: that is what has been proposed
[03:56:20] <mrcoolbp> we are debating that now
[03:56:20] <Bytram> we were using slashcott for that for a short while
[03:56:29] <MrBluze> lol ok thanks.. would have paid me to scroll up a bit more ;) sorry
[03:56:31] <mrcoolbp> exactly
[03:56:35] <Bytram> nw
[03:56:36] <mrcoolbp> no prob
[03:57:06] <MrBluze> lists are good though for some things, like announcements
[03:57:11] <mrcoolbp> exactly
[03:57:26] <Bytram> we would need a slash instance that was separate from dev.soylentnews.org, though
[03:57:42] <mrcoolbp> if you have something important that everyone must see, send to the mailng list a link to the slash page maybe
[03:58:01] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: why? we could test our code *while* we communicate
[03:58:03] <Bytram> ^^^ great idea
[03:58:04] <mrcoolbp> it's a win-win
[03:58:09] <prospectacle> Any perl developers around that can say whether using a "BEGIN" directive would solve the "universal login requirements" problem for a staff slash site? http://perldoc.perl.org
[03:58:46] <mrcoolbp> see this: http://wiki.soylentnews.org for background on ^^^^
[03:58:49] <Bytram> prospectacle: Hi! was just talking about your polling code...
[03:58:50] <prospectacle> ie you tell mod_perl to always run the "are you logged in" script when you request anything from staf.soylentnews.org
[03:58:56] <prospectacle> hi bytram
[03:59:10] <Bytram> was wondering if you had time to look at my comment/reply
[03:59:27] <Bytram> your code is really nice and has given me food for thought
[03:59:49] <Bytram> thinking it could be merged into pollbooth in some fashion.
[04:00:16] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: did you read about audioguy's system?
[04:00:17] <Bytram> but, I got stuck on how to handle certain edge/corner cases with voting
[04:00:21] <Bytram> es
[04:00:23] <Bytram> yes
[04:00:38] <Bytram> well, scanned it. hold on
[04:00:42] <NCommander> prospectacle, I rather fix the OpenID consumer in slash, and get the main sight to be a provider
[04:00:47] <prospectacle> bytram, yes, you could give multiple candidates equal rank in that system. Two things to mention: This is not really a problem (for certain values of "problem"), secondly, it is easily removed if you prefer. Just let me know if people want it to be unique ranks per-voter, and I can make the modes in about 4 lines (but later today)
[04:00:57] <NCommander> *site
[04:01:08] * NCommander actually has OpenID provider on the TODO list for the main site for single sign on reasons
[04:01:24] <prospectacle> ncommander, sounds more robust. The work-notes I'd been reading (see mrcoolbp link above) were dealing with intercepting it at the perl level.
[04:01:32] <prospectacle> since htaccses wasn't working.
[04:01:45] <mrcoolbp> prospectacle: when you get in touch with audioguy, please show him a link to that journal entry as well
[04:01:58] * mrcoolbp notes all this devvy stuff goes over his head mostly
[04:02:23] <prospectacle> mrcoolbp, will do
[04:02:27] <mrcoolbp> thanks
[04:02:39] <prospectacle> bytram. For example if you give everyone 1st rank. It's not different to not casing a vote.
[04:02:53] <prospectacle> bytram, or if you give everyone 10th rank.
[04:03:00] <NCommander> prospectacle, we can htaccess the site with kerberos authetication which all members of the staff should have
[04:03:22] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: so what do you think about using slash for staff communication? There are downsides sure, but every system will have some. What are the major cons?
[04:03:26] <prospectacle> NCommander, sounds better then. i was just reading audioguys notes which mentioned .htaccess wasn't doing anything
[04:03:46] <NCommander> prospectacle, frack, I forgot about that
[04:03:54] <prospectacle> bytram, but I'd be happy to write a version that makes ranks unique (among an individual voter's votes). I'll give it a go later.
[04:03:54] <NCommander> There are ways to make that work though
[04:04:16] <prospectacle> Gotta go. Have fun everybody.
[04:04:16] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I'm not sure what I'd write or put on it but maybe I'm wrong on this
[04:04:27] <prospectacle> oh and good intro to U.S. law NCommander, I found it very enlightening.
[04:04:37] <Bytram> prospectacle: I guess I'm just trying to undestand what are permitted/acceptable choices and what the implications of them would be.
[04:04:52] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: there is no right or wrong, that's why we are debating. I'm looking to find pros/cons
[04:04:57] <prospectacle> Bytram, I'll do a proper journal reply in a few hours. You raise some important points.
[04:05:05] prospectacle is now known as prospectacle_is_away
[04:05:08] <Bytram> prospectacle: I think my reply to your journal article covered most of the permutations that I have questions on
[04:05:24] <Bytram> prospectacle_is_away: http://soylentnews.org
[04:05:43] <Bytram> prospectacle_is_away: Much obliged! cya
[04:05:46] <mrcoolbp> bytram: after reading audioguy's notes on his voting system, I'm assuming you still have the same questions about his system?
[04:05:56] <NCommander> prospectacle_is_away, its still pretty light. I need to go into how prescents bind. This is extremely important because there's a split decision w.r.t. to bloggers as journalists
[04:06:02] <Bytram> ding ding ding!
[04:06:06] <mrcoolbp> heh
[04:07:07] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: when we have *this* input, what are we supposed to do with it? What does it mean? Is it valid? If not, how do we convey that back to the user?
[04:07:14] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, hrm ... I'm mulling it over
[04:07:18] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: now what about *that* input?
[04:07:59] <Bytram> my journal reply to prospectacle was intended to cover the corner cases. I await his reply before proceeding.
[04:08:09] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: He can answer these better than him, but would a "vote received and is valid" message work?
[04:08:12] * NCommander really wants to overhaul journals
[04:08:16] <NCommander> I want them slashsites in mini
[04:08:21] <NCommander> similiar to subreddits
[04:08:26] <mrcoolbp> bytram: er uh, audioguy can answer better than me
[04:08:27] <Bytram> turtles all the way?
[04:08:38] <mrcoolbp> yes!
[04:09:15] <mrcoolbp> Ncommander: I propose merging dev.soylent with staff communication
[04:09:44] <mrcoolbp> NCommandr: the only problem I see is having a way to "look up" things that fall off the main page (organize them so to speak)
[04:09:46] <Bytram> I'm against that.
[04:09:53] <mrcoolbp> bytram: defend
[04:10:04] <MrBluze> testing soylent should be staff comms
[04:10:06] <MrBluze> not dev
[04:10:08] <Bytram> test cases. destructive data ... "random" posts replies comments moderation...
[04:10:09] <MrBluze> it will break too often
[04:10:27] <mrcoolbp> okay...
[04:11:17] <mrcoolbp> motivation to fix bugs?
[04:11:19] <mrcoolbp> heh
[04:11:35] <MrBluze> maybe but it will impair our ability to fix them if we can't see what we discussed ;)
[04:11:35] <Bytram> not that hard to have one "slash" that is running the latest and greatest for staff communication, and a separate one that is also runnnig the latest and greatest for dev, and one for QA.
[04:11:40] * NCommander lets this debate play out before ruling judgment
[04:11:51] <Bytram> select * from ....
[04:11:52] <NCommander> We've got installing slash down to an art form at this point
[04:12:11] <mrcoolbp> bytram: yes I thought of that too
[04:12:17] <Bytram> ned better search
[04:12:20] <Bytram> ned better search
[04:12:27] <mrcoolbp> that's true
[04:12:30] <Bytram> *need* better search
[04:12:36] <MrBluze> third time lucky
[04:12:41] * Bytram neds a new kbd!
[04:12:54] <mrcoolbp> would be nice if there was a hirearchial organization/nav for the "stories"
[04:13:02] <mrcoolbp> but that sounds like some work
[04:13:02] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, That's actually implemented
[04:13:06] <mrcoolbp> really?
[04:13:07] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, its just not pinned out on the UI
[04:13:12] <mrcoolbp> whoa cool
[04:13:22] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, you're an editor, right?
[04:13:25] <mrcoolbp> yes
[04:13:28] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, click the + icon for topics
[04:13:31] <mrcoolbp> k
[04:13:37] <NCommander> I defined that tree in the database, but I can define any layout I want
[04:13:54] <mrcoolbp> WHOA
[04:14:14] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, yeah I know, SHINY
[04:14:20] <mrcoolbp> quite
[04:14:26] * NCommander notes his writeup is SLOWLY starting to come together
[04:14:47] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: if you need to do that, you can, I don't want to distract you from that
[04:14:58] <Bytram> umm, where's the "+" icon for topics?
[04:15:11] <Bytram> (I'm looking at dev.sn)
[04:15:23] <mrcoolbp> bytram click new on the admin panel
[04:15:26] <mrcoolbp> "new"
[04:15:40] <mrcoolbp> then go down to topics, click "+" to the right of that
[04:16:06] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: where do we stand on search functionality (slash)?
[04:16:14] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, it needs sphinx
[04:16:24] <NCommander> Sphinx is so badly documented that neither myself, nor zford managed to get it working
[04:16:32] <NCommander> Older versions appear to require patching mysql
[04:16:37] <NCommander> (unknown if thats true now)
[04:16:58] <NCommander> In theory, once sphinx is installed and its finished indexing the DB, its just a matter of pointing the right variables to the sphinx server, and letting slashd run
[04:17:11] <Bytram> hrmm, is that the only indexing/searching option?
[04:17:28] <MrBluze> there must be heaps of search functions out there
[04:17:33] <MrBluze> all we need to do is search the static site
[04:17:43] <NCommander> Bytram, that's the one baked into slash
[04:17:47] <paulej72> google ;)
[04:17:51] <NCommander> paulej72, duckduckgo :-P
[04:18:04] <NCommander> But we can't tell either google or DDG to limit to journals, comments or just stories
[04:18:04] <Bytram> NCommander++
[04:18:04] <PoeticWarlord> karma - ncommander: 13
[04:18:10] <mrcoolbp> well I'd like to have "no third party" philosiphy continue...
[04:18:17] * NCommander notes slashdot's sphinx instance appears to have shat itself
[04:18:28] <Bytram> NCommander: sure we can! robots.txt and <a rel="nofollow">
[04:18:30] <mrcoolbp> self-host as much as possible
[04:18:38] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, agreed. I rather just fix sphinx
[04:18:42] <NCommander> !todo sphinx
[04:18:42] <PoeticWarlord> todo item 9 added
[04:18:42] <MrBluze> yeah but we can host a search script that goes through the static pages, presumably
[04:18:46] <MrBluze> ?
[04:18:55] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: I thoroughly agree.
[04:18:58] <NCommander> MrBluze, before we re-invent a wheel, lets see if I can just fix the one we have
[04:19:07] <NCommander> For the wiki/other pages, we can run ht/dig or something
[04:19:13] <MrBluze> NCommander: depends what shape the wheel has
[04:19:15] <Bytram> do we even HAVE any static pages left?
[04:19:25] <NCommander> Bytram, about/faq.shtml
[04:19:40] <mrcoolbp> heh
[04:19:45] <MrBluze> lol ok
[04:19:47] <NCommander> and some of the help pages
[04:19:48] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: that file is still broken
[04:20:06] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: we have a fixed version in the pipeline that has been waiting weeks for deploy
[04:20:29] <mrcoolbp> also it's out of date, and doesn't have a link to the wiki
[04:20:41] <Bytram> okay,
[04:20:54] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, *sigh*
[04:20:57] <mrcoolbp> yeah
[04:21:07] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I need to define a release process
[04:21:08] <Bytram> my time is at end. it's 20 minnutes after "5 more minutes"... =)
[04:21:09] * mrcoolbp has been *trying* not to bother you about it
[04:21:12] <NCommander> I don't want to be cowbowing more
[04:21:17] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, no, that one is legit :-/
[04:21:24] <mrcoolbp> bytram, go to sleep
[04:21:35] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: okay, can you get that page up at least?
[04:21:54] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: also moderation page was updated to remove "Slashdot" references
[04:21:58] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: goose/gander... get some sleep, yourself! k?
[04:22:07] <mrcoolbp> maybe = )
[04:22:52] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
[04:23:00] * Bytram|away is away: g'nite all!
[04:23:08] <mrcoolbp> g'night
[04:23:11] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, is it in git?
[04:23:16] * NCommander can cherrypick it from master
[04:23:21] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: yes, paule put both pages in
[04:23:27] <mrcoolbp> htdocs
[04:23:45] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I need to find the git commits and I'll do a cherrypick
[04:23:51] <NCommander> or paulej72 can tell me which ones to cherrypick :-)
[04:23:53] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: LaminatorX is working on the FAQ page as well, I'll let you know
[04:23:57] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, thanks
[04:24:01] <mrcoolbp> no problem!
[04:24:05] <NCommander> way too much work
[04:24:07] * NCommander sighs
[04:24:12] <mrcoolbp> I fell you
[04:24:17] <mrcoolbp> er uh
[04:24:23] <mrcoolbp> yeah you know what I mean
[04:24:24] <MrBluze> baby steps
[04:24:32] <paulej72> OK I’ll look for thoes commits
[04:26:14] * mrcoolbp is feeling relatively accomplished and makes self a drink
[04:26:35] -!- Cyprus [Cyprus!~Cyprus@68.63.ljr.ppx] has joined #staff
[04:27:28] <paulej72> NCommander: https://github.com
[04:28:08] <paulej72> NCommander: https://github.com
[04:28:54] -!- Bytram|away has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[04:33:00] <paulej72> NCommander: you may want this one as well https://github.com
[04:33:24] <mrcoolbp> paulej72: thanks, that about page is killing me...
[04:36:07] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, paulej72: thanks, cherrypicking
[04:36:15] <mrcoolbp> nice
[04:37:40] <NCommander> error: could not apply 02e9525... Minor html bug fixes to static pages
[04:37:40] <NCommander> hint: after resolving the conflicts, mark the corrected paths
[04:37:41] <NCommander> Ugh
[04:38:10] <mrcoolbp> ?
[04:39:18] <paulej72> NCommander: try 0309 first
[04:39:37] <NCommander> paulej72, I merged 02e9 first
[04:40:32] <NCommander> paulej72, which version is the newer one?
[04:41:22] <paulej72> 02e9
[04:44:09] <NCommander> paulej72, cherry-picked for soylent-production
[04:44:11] <NCommander> ^- mrcoolbp
[04:44:33] <mrcoolbp> awesome, thanks
[04:44:48] <NCommander> deploying
[04:46:01] <NCommander> Deployed to production
[04:46:25] <mrcoolbp> fuck the forums are in there
[04:46:36] <mrcoolbp> paulej72: I thought you were going to fix that?
[04:46:40] <mrcoolbp> = )
[04:47:00] <NCommander> http://soylentnews.org
[04:47:02] <NCommander> It broke
[04:47:05] <NCommander> ...
[04:47:08] <NCommander> Who forgot the magic
[04:47:23] <mrcoolbp> paulej72: and the buglinks still go to forceforge
[04:47:27] * mrcoolbp sighs deep
[04:48:06] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: working for me (minus above)
[04:48:58] <paulej72> sorry I fogot to update them. I can push out a fix asap
[04:49:13] <mrcoolbp> http://dev.soylentnews.org
[04:49:28] <mrcoolbp> that one looks right
[04:51:06] <mrcoolbp> np paulej72, it's still a huge improvement = )
[04:51:43] * NCommander feels the troll
[04:54:32] <mrcoolbp> nah, not at all
[04:54:49] <NCommander> http://soylentnews.org
[04:54:53] <NCommander> ^- mrcoolbp MrBluze
[04:54:56] <mrcoolbp> I'm just happy the slash includes are back, it was killing me (I ripped them out somehow)
[04:54:59] <mrcoolbp> oh
[04:55:43] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, they're missing on the production page :-/
[04:56:06] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: it's working for me
[04:56:12] <mrcoolbp> refresh
[04:56:39] <MrBluze> NCommander: .. yes, fair enough
[04:56:47] <MrBluze> i haven't banned anyone yet for anything
[04:57:15] <NCommander> I've done things that deserve criticism. I'm not going to be slandered by an AC sporting halftruths
[04:57:21] <NCommander> or outright fiction
[04:57:42] * NCommander checks the IP log
[04:57:57] <MrBluze> there will be FUD
[04:57:58] <paulej72> I did update the links in about.shtm in https://github.com but It has changes to two others files that are not needed yet. NCommander can you pull just that one file from that commit.
[04:58:01] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: it's a good reply
[04:58:30] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, Ok, there are two seperate IPs
[04:58:39] * NCommander is talking to the first one, and the second one isn't banned
[04:58:50] <mrcoolbp> I'm sure it's khyber
[04:59:13] <mrcoolbp> he spends a lot of time here trying to "expose" us or whatever for someone who "doesn't care anymore"
[05:00:37] <MrBluze> it might be hi
[05:00:39] <MrBluze> +m
[05:02:10] <mrcoolbp> well yeah, but I don't know of any other obvious persons intent on making us look bad
[05:02:17] <MrBluze> not yet, no one is
[05:02:28] <MrBluze> we haven't made a huge impact
[05:02:32] <paulej72> by the way, I have gotten better at doing commits with git recently and I stopped commitng multiple differnt files (still commit my css files togeter and stuff like that)
[05:02:39] <MrBluze> but we've made a good start
[05:04:08] <mrcoolbp> heh
[05:06:20] <mrcoolbp> paulej72: thanks!
[05:08:01] * mrcoolbp needs to get some sleep
[05:08:10] <mrcoolbp> I'm gonna take off in a bit
[05:09:46] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I'm pushing out now
[05:09:56] <mrcoolbp> sweeet.....
[05:10:04] * mrcoolbp furiously reloads the page
[05:10:16] <NCommander> ERROR: apparent CVS conflict notification string in /srv/soylentnews.org/slashcode/themes/slashcode/templates/userboxes;misc;default, skipping, use -s if you really want this
[05:10:18] <NCommander> WTF
[05:10:36] <NCommander> shit
[05:10:40] <NCommander> I miscommitted something
[05:10:48] <NCommander> appears Slash just saved our bacon
[05:11:49] <mrcoolbp> well the about page looks right anyway
[05:11:57] <mrcoolbp> thanks paulej72 and Ncommander!
[05:13:18] <NCommander> paulej72, BTW, can you please watch the indentation when you commit? It makes cherry picks difficult and puts noise in git :-/ (I haven't been whacking people for this, I need to)
[05:13:22] <paulej72> NCommander: that template was updated in the c321 commit, but should not have been applied without the other fixes.
[05:13:37] <NCommander> paulej72, I'm fixing it now
[05:14:12] <paulej72> NCommander: I am not sure what you mean by watch the indentation.
[05:14:39] * mrcoolbp whacks self
[05:14:51] <NCommander> paulej72, the conflict I merged was caused by indentation in the template being different causing git to require manual merging
[05:15:02] <NCommander> paulej72, mrcoolbp: deployed
[05:15:09] <NCommander> Does it look "right" now?
[05:15:20] * mrcoolbp looks
[05:17:38] <paulej72> NCommander now we got the older version of the organization template. fab16 was new than the one in c321 commit. Thats why cherry picking can sometimes be unproductive
[05:18:14] <NCommander> paulej72, oops >.<;
[05:18:22] <mrcoolbp> uh...link to IRC goes to a removed header on wiki main page, should be http://wiki.soylentnews.org but it's not a huge deal
[05:18:30] <paulej72> NCommander: I have changed the indentation on some of the files as the orginal files were poorly indented
[05:18:35] <NCommander> paulej72, ah, ok
[05:18:42] * NCommander MIGHT have nuked that change by accident then
[05:18:56] <NCommander> paulej72, it will get fixed once we have a formal release
[05:19:37] <mrcoolbp> and the "who's who" link is the same deal: should be http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[05:20:14] * mrcoolbp is wondering if he should just fix these and submit a pull request...
[05:22:15] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, put redirects on the wiki for now
[05:22:18] <paulej72> whoswho uese a sylnt.us shortend url. Landon could fix that url to the correct one
[05:22:49] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: will do, paulej72, I'll follow up with him on that
[05:23:09] <mrcoolbp> thanks guys, I really do need to get some sleep
[05:23:21] * mrcoolbp was running on fumes but they are dissapating
[05:47:39] <mrcoolbp> GOODNINGHT!
[05:47:46] -!- mrcoolbp has quit []
[06:41:09] -!- Cyprus has quit []
[07:36:30] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|afk
[07:56:59] prospectacle_is_away is now known as prospectacle
[08:11:11] <NCommander> comments: 213 posted yesterday
[08:11:11] <NCommander> submissions: 8 submissions
[08:11:12] * NCommander sighs
[08:11:23] <NCommander> sub/comments: 0.0% of the submissions came from comment posters from this day
[08:11:24] <NCommander> shit
[08:20:01] * NCommander keeps banging on this
[08:25:15] <NCommander> paulej72, ... I think we should cherry pick the nagger
[09:15:48] audioguy is now known as audioguyzzz
[09:42:41] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~blue@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok] has joined #staff
[09:42:41] -!- mode/#staff [+v janrinok] by SkyNet
[09:42:50] <janrinok> hi guys - anybody know why I can't log in to the main site. It accepts my username/password but treats me as an AC and does not show my editing options. The only change at this end is that the clocks have changed for Summer Time
[09:43:50] <janrinok> Perhaps I have been thrown out in to the cold...
[09:44:36] <janrinok> xlefay: ^^
[09:46:53] <janrinok> Same for the dev site too.
[09:47:18] <janrinok> hello - is anyone awake?
[09:48:50] <janrinok> Hello anyone from sys here?
[09:49:43] <janrinok> ping
[10:05:15] -!- SirFinkus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[10:08:10] -!- janrinok has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[10:12:26] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~blue@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok] has joined #staff
[10:12:26] -!- mode/#staff [+v janrinok] by SkyNet
[10:21:34] <janrinok> ping xlefay
[10:22:00] <janrinok> anyone here - we have a problem
[10:24:59] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[10:25:17] <MrBluze> problem?
[10:26:06] <MrBluze> i logged in ok
[10:26:30] <MrBluze> clear your cookies and all that
[10:26:47] <janrinok> yes I cannot log on to the main or dev sites. It accepts my username and pw but treats me like a AC and no editor options. My tz changed to Summer Time overnight. No other changes that I can see
[10:27:05] <MrBluze> afaik u should be still ok?
[10:27:47] <janrinok> cookies cleared - still no go
[10:27:59] <MrBluze> hmm
[10:29:02] <MrBluze> am i able to check your account or anything?
[10:30:24] <MrBluze> urgh i gtg
[10:30:38] <janrinok> no I have no access to my user page. You could always look at soylentnews.org/~janrinok and see it you can see it.
[10:30:57] <janrinok> Ok have a good one
[10:31:01] <MrBluze> you are there
[10:31:14] <janrinok> good, I'm not yet a non-person
[10:31:34] <MrBluze> hmm
[10:31:37] <MrBluze> try via tor or something
[10:31:56] <MrBluze> if it's dev and main site, it will be your browser imho
[10:32:06] <MrBluze> chewing up your cookies or something
[10:32:09] <janrinok> you do what you have to do. It seems like it only affects a few people.
[10:32:16] <MrBluze> or your subnet
[10:32:18] <MrBluze> .. okay
[10:32:20] <MrBluze> bbiab
[10:32:23] <MrBluze> NCommander: ping
[10:32:31] <janrinok> I'll fire up another machine and see if I can get on that way
[10:33:05] <NCommander> MrBluze, pong
[10:33:09] * NCommander is fiddling with slash
[10:33:13] * NCommander needed a break
[10:33:22] <NCommander> Moderator^Post is now a configuration option
[10:33:32] <janrinok> NCommander: i cannot log into the main or dev sites
[10:33:47] <janrinok> tz changed overnight to summer time.
[10:34:17] <janrinok> The system accepts my username and password but treats me as AC and does not give me editor options
[10:34:57] <janrinok> cleared cookies, rebooted, tried changing tz - but nothing seems to work, any ideas?
[10:35:11] <NCommander> janrinok, shit
[10:35:18] <janrinok> well put
[10:35:27] <NCommander> That probably broke half the fucking site
[10:35:48] <janrinok> others have logged in OK
[10:35:55] <NCommander> janrinok, I'm going to hijack your account on dev and see if I can figure out what happened
[10:36:08] <janrinok> go for it - I can;'t use it!
[10:45:50] <NCommander> paulej72, BTW Parsing of undecoded UTF-8 will give garbage when decoding entities at /srv/soylentnews.org/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.1/x86_64-linux/HTML/PullParser.pm line 81.
[10:45:50] <NCommander> Parsing of undecoded UTF-8 will give garbage when decoding entities at /srv/soylentnews.org/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.1/x86_64-linux/HTML/PullParser.pm line 81.
[10:45:54] <NCommander> ^- from Apache's error log
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[11:08:18] <NCommander> FUCK
[11:08:19] <NCommander> Slash/Utility/Data/Data.pm
[11:08:23] * NCommander found a fix for the utf-8 issue
[11:08:24] <NCommander> maybe
[11:08:33] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[11:09:59] <MrBluze> odd thing was janrinok's account was dead on the dev server as well
[11:10:22] <NCommander> MrBluze, I'm confused
[11:10:25] <NCommander> But meh
[11:10:39] <MrBluze> daylight savings ? stale cookies ?
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[11:33:28] <NCommander> Well
[11:33:31] <NCommander> That's fucking awesome
[11:33:40] <NCommander> Slash (ab)uses a private API which changed
[11:33:47] <NCommander> no wonder UTF-8 spikes the damn processor
[11:34:26] <janrinok> NCommander: Oops - how long back did the API change?
[11:34:39] <NCommander> janrinok, I'm not sure, but its not a public API, they shouldn't be using it
[11:34:54] <janrinok> I wonder if the other site has/had the same problem?
[11:35:08] <MrBluze> more than likely, janrinok
[11:35:10] <NCommander> janrinok, if they used an older version of HTML::Entities, they should be ok
[11:35:34] <janrinok> Is it an 'easy' fix - knowing that no fix is that easy..
[11:36:10] <NCommander> The module can also export the %char2entity and the %entity2char
[11:36:10] <NCommander> hashes, which contain the mapping from all characters to the
[11:36:10] <NCommander> corresponding entities (and vice versa, respectively).
[11:36:11] <NCommander> Hrm
[11:36:14] <NCommander> appears its not private
[11:36:19] <NCommander> not that its listed on CPAN
[11:37:35] <NCommander> http://pastebin.ca
[11:37:38] <NCommander> This check looks broken
[11:40:16] <NCommander> # At the moment, unless the "draconian" rule is set, only
[11:40:16] <NCommander> # entities that change the direction of text are forbidden.
[11:40:16] <NCommander> # For more information, see
[11:47:47] <NCommander> Right
[11:47:53] <NCommander> So this is pure idiotcy
[11:47:56] <NCommander> Or at least it has become
[11:48:06] * NCommander notes modern web browsers and lynx handle UTF-8 pretty well
[11:50:06] <janrinok> I struggled with it anyway, I couldn't decide the meaning or function of good_entity, bad_entity, entity. For example, which one controls the direction of text?
[11:51:00] <NCommander> janrinok, good_entity is used as a whitelist when dracoian is enabled
[11:51:04] <NCommander> Otherwise, the reverse is true
[11:52:27] <janrinok> I'll have to think about that again... :) I've lost an hours sleep and it has slowed my grey matter to the speed of long-deceased snail crawling through molasses.
[11:53:52] <janrinok> How did the legal write-up go so far?
[11:57:50] <NCommander> janrinok, very slowly
[11:58:06] <NCommander> janrinok, http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[11:58:22] <janrinok> not surprised - take a break with some coding, a change is as good as a rest, so they say.
[11:59:37] <MrBluze> users vs. time is a classic asymptotic curve
[11:59:47] <MrBluze> which means we need to do a bit of marketing
[11:59:57] <MrBluze> .. after the name vote
[12:00:50] <janrinok> NCommander: you did a lot more after I left yesterday and it looks an impressive document. But, personal obligations call so I'll be back in about a hour or so!
[12:00:53] <NCommander> This UTF-8 bug is madding
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[12:41:27] <xlefay> So shit broke?
[12:52:55] <NCommander> xlefay, not yet
[12:52:58] * NCommander will debug this later
[12:53:03] <NCommander> paulej72, review and merge please: https://github.com
[12:53:09] * NCommander wanted to do more but eh, fuck it
[13:13:20] <xlefay> Oxygen had a weird ntp config :/
[13:13:30] <xlefay> It was installed but even while running, it didn't actually properly sync.
[13:13:53] * xlefay is so glad we're monitoring NTP too, when there's weird breakage and the time is off, that'll be the first thing to fix in my book
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[14:38:14] <xlefay> NCommander, ping
[14:38:33] <xlefay> Slash doesn't deal properly with IPv6 on the frontend?
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[20:24:30] <janrinok> This is a very quiet Sunday evening....
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[22:34:48] <NCommander> xlefay, pong, it has issues
[22:35:32] <paulej72> NCommander: xlefay is sleeping
[22:36:24] <paulej72> NCommander: did yoiu get my note on your pull request?
[22:38:24] <NCommander> paulej72, no
[22:38:37] * NCommander opens thunderbird
[22:40:21] <NCommander> paulej72, fixed
[22:41:36] <paulej72> update needs fixed as well
[22:45:17] <NCommander> paulej72, ?
[22:45:57] <paulej72> sql/mysql/upgrades
[22:46:08] <paulej72> not update sorry
[22:47:11] <NCommander> paulej72, I'm going to rebase this into one commit
[22:47:13] <NCommander> stand by
[22:47:38] <paulej72> I think I
[22:47:58] <paulej72> I think I’ll sit by instead
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[22:54:17] <NCommander> paulej72, so I did some digging into the Unicode thing, turns out there's yet another missing variable
[22:54:31] <NCommander> paulej72, 'utf8' appears to be necessary but enabling it doesn't fix shit
[22:54:40] <paulej72> yes what is it
[22:55:46] <paulej72> did you disable draconian_charrefs at the same time
[22:56:45] <NCommander> paulej72, yeah, slash still hung up
[22:57:00] <NCommander> paulej72, my guess is its trying to decode something it shouldn't
[22:57:58] <paulej72> my need to disable the approveTags sub in Data.pm
[22:58:05] <paulej72> may*
[22:58:44] <NCommander> paulej72, well, I think part of it is perl is choking on handing unicode
[23:06:19] <xlefay> paulej72, wasn't sleeping, was just gone for a bit. | NCommander: Ok, thought I read something about that earlier but wasn't sure, did you take a look at Icinga? ;D
[23:07:31] <xlefay> Still quite a bit missing but it's getting along so nicely!
[23:07:41] <NCommander> xlefay, very sweet
[23:08:04] * NCommander is fighting cigarette urges
[23:08:21] <xlefay> We're also now monitoring each servers DNS record, in case someone or something fucks up, we'll get notified if a record is missing which may cause weird issues
[23:08:40] <xlefay> hehe, I know how that feels like ;) Can I pick your brain about a small matter regarding monitoring?
[23:09:03] <NCommander> xlefay, sure
[23:09:35] <xlefay> (and, each 30 minutes, we're also checking our zone @ linode, if something goes wrong there, least we'll get an alert out quickly!)
[23:10:11] <NCommander> xlefay, what needs picking?
[23:10:51] <xlefay> e.g. floating an idea and getting feedback/suggestions/improvements
[23:11:37] <NCommander> ... float the idea man :-P
[23:11:40] <xlefay> Ok so, one concern I have is, what if Boron goes down, what then? So I was thinking, of having Carbon (since it already has PostgreSQL) as a backup server, have a cron run every X minutes checking if Boron's still alive otherwise start up an Icinga installation there (which has a local copy of Boron's config, not quite sure how to effectively keep this in sync yet, maybe the AFS stuff can help with this) - and auto shut off when Boron's been onl
[23:11:40] <xlefay> ine for XX minutes
[23:12:21] <xlefay> I don't want to over complicate it; thus why I'm thinking a simple cron
[23:13:00] <NCommander> xlefay, hrm ... just sync the icinga install and run it at both at the same time :-)
[23:13:05] <xlefay> (and keep resources light)
[23:13:22] <xlefay> That would mean two servers using the same resources & both notifying when stuff goes wrong
[23:13:44] <NCommander> hrm
[23:13:49] <mattie_p> heya folks
[23:13:52] * NCommander notes you've been exceedingly busy!
[23:14:01] <paulej72> hey mattie_p
[23:14:11] <mattie_p> hi paulej72!
[23:14:25] <paulej72> hows the mud doing
[23:14:32] <mattie_p> ready for upload
[23:14:38] <xlefay> I've worked quite a bit on it hehe, I'm looking for a cost-effective solution ;)
[23:14:56] <mattie_p> its still stock, as in the zones are "stock" - no custom areas.
[23:15:24] <NCommander> what's the programming language?
[23:15:27] <NCommander> FORTH??
[23:15:45] <mattie_p> NCommander, I thought I told you it was in c
[23:15:58] <paulej72> mattie_p: are there any grues
[23:16:02] <mattie_p> but I've added in color codes, OLC (which is online creation, so that people can add areas without having to ftp), copyover (allowing for hot code updates without dropping links)
[23:16:08] <mattie_p> and now IRC integration
[23:16:18] <mattie_p> paulej72 I need to add those in a nerd zone
[23:16:35] <NCommander> mattie_p, I meant for user scripts or such
[23:17:18] <mattie_p> NCommander online creation is a custom command-line interface
[23:17:48] <mattie_p> NCommander there is some programming to allow mobs to interact with players, but it all needs to be added in a custom language, so far as I can tell
[23:18:10] <NCommander> mattie_p, I'm used to tinymuck more than traditional MUDs
[23:18:11] <mattie_p> remember, this is really retro
[23:18:19] <NCommander> aka,, second-life but text
[23:18:28] <mattie_p> I'm not familiar with tinymuck
[23:19:00] <NCommander> Users can make objects, then get objects to do stuff via forth programming
[23:19:03] * NCommander shakes his head
[23:19:10] <NCommander> Whatever you came up w/ will be fine
[23:19:20] <mattie_p> its something, anyway
[23:19:35] <mattie_p> its what I'm most familiar with, I can work on expanding capabilities later
[23:20:01] <NCommander> mattie_p, we can always add a MUSH
[23:20:03] <NCommander> ;-)
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[23:20:52] <NCommander> I noticed the bot also is on idlerpg
[23:22:06] <NCommander> now you ned a idlerpg in the MUD itself
[23:22:40] <xlefay> I should switch nerdrpg to beerrpg for april 1st
[23:22:50] <mattie_p> oops, think I broke MSG
[23:23:22] <xlefay> s/for/on/
[23:23:25] <mattie_p> anyway, "NCommander of course, a game playing a game? yes we do recursion around here"
[23:24:08] <xlefay> mattie_p, to come full circle, we need nerdrpg to play MUD
[23:24:11] <mattie_p> anyway, I'm not familiar with the MUSH codebase, you'd have to get someone else to administer it
[23:24:32] <mattie_p> xlefay, the whole point of nerdrpg is to do nothing. not sure how that would work
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[23:25:02] <xlefay> Well, I suppose that is a small obstacle, but it can recursively do nothing!
[23:25:03] <mattie_p> Hi, audioguy!
[23:26:46] <mattie_p> xlefay I'd have to add it to the wizlist so it won't timeout
[23:26:55] <mattie_p> the mud doesn't do ping/pong stuff
[23:27:05] <xlefay> :<
[23:28:36] <xlefay> I gotta run, I'll look more at the cost-benefit scenario of Icinga later, ciao
[23:28:50] <mattie_p> well, remember that MUDS are mostly telnet-based, nothing like that in there
[23:29:16] <mattie_p> I guess I could just remove the timeout code, that might stagnate sockets, tho, no idea on long-term impact
[23:31:14] <mattie_p> .voice SoylentMUD
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[23:31:38] <SoylentMUD> testing. SoylentMUD needed voice, I think (MUD\Mattiep)
[23:31:47] <mattie_p> yup
[23:34:22] <mattie_p> any ideas on what port we should use for the MUD? by default it uses 9000, but I'm not picky, if there is something we'd prefer to use I'm game
[23:48:44] <NCommander> mattie_p, I'm happy w/ running whatever you want
[23:50:12] <mattie_p> NCommander cool, mostly because its ready. in a few minutes we can talk offline on what you need me to do. I tested it on the dev VM, in fact, that's what its running on right now
[23:50:58] <paulej72> NCommander: I merged your updated and added one I was working on. Can you take a look if you have time
[23:51:45] <NCommander> paulej72, looking
[23:52:29] <NCommander> paulej72, looks good, merged
[23:52:36] <NCommander> paulej72, we're getting a pretty good workflow going here
[23:53:42] <paulej72> we just need tp apply these updates to production at some point.
[23:56:05] <NCommander> paulej72, we define our update proceedures
[23:57:19] <NCommander> Ugh, so much to do
[23:58:52] <mattie_p> NCommander, you did ask to be in charge, didn't you?
[23:58:55] <mattie_p> :)
[23:59:03] * NCommander beats mattie_p with a spiked club
[23:59:33] <SoylentMUD> mattie_p parries the blow! NCommander is in good condition. (MUD\Mattie)