#staff | Logs for 2014-03-28

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[00:02:45] <NCommander> paulej72, yeah, and I'm not sure it helps much. I'm going to setup tripwire on the nodes to help test intruder detection
[00:13:32] * FunPika just successfully used SSH proxying to get onto Beryllium using PuTTY
[00:13:38] <FunPika> time to update the access instructions page :P
[00:24:23] <paulej72> I have been looking at story submissions, there is an issue when trying to use p tags
[00:24:59] <NCommander> FunPika, nice
[00:25:09] <NCommander> paulej72, there are issues with HTML and backslash in general
[00:25:17] * NCommander actually would like to implement a BBcode system
[00:25:46] <paulej72> right now slash is set te strip all p tags and change them to double br tags. I can set a var to have it not do that, but it always messes up the first paragraph.
[00:26:05] <paulej72> The p tags are missing.
[00:28:58] <paulej72> bbcode system would be much easier. there is code in the Data.pm file that tries to deal with all of this stuff. It has functions that clean up plain text or html to fix it to slashes approved style. It is mostly regex code that I can not easily understand. I think one of the codes is causing it issue with the missing p tag, but I am not good enough with regex to wade my way throug the mess of code.
[00:29:30] <NCommander> paulej72, regexs suck
[00:29:33] <NCommander> */nuff said*
[00:29:44] <NCommander> paulej72, I'm trying to make nagios be less of a security hole :-/
[00:29:46] <paulej72> like I don’t already know that
[00:30:06] <NCommander> paulej72, I'm just repeating for clarity :-)
[00:30:24] * NCommander is tweaking nagios to use kerberos authetication vs. their insecure NPRE plugin
[00:30:46] <paulej72> you mean icinga not nagios correct
[00:31:04] <NCommander> paulej72, yeha
[00:31:14] <NCommander> paulej72, npre is shockingly insecure :-/
[00:31:21] <NCommander> paulej72, I'm switching it to use SSH authetication
[00:32:21] <paulej72> most things were written with security as an afterthought, then quickly bolted on poorly. This includes most secrity programs :)
[00:41:55] <NCommander> paulej72, agreed. I'm tweaking it to get a kerberos ticket, and then go node to node that way
[00:42:19] <NCommander> paulej72, (I have an adversion to the traditional system of just generating private keys on servers)
[00:48:14] <paulej72> Need to go home. bbl
[00:48:30] <NCommander> paulej72, cya
[01:01:31] <NCommander> Cool, that worked perfectly!
[01:01:43] * NCommander has a properly kerberosized icinga
[01:05:26] <NCommander> !todo package nagios check_by_kssh
[01:05:26] <DashComma> todo item 10 added
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[02:02:31] <xlefay> n1: don't worry, I don't mind it gone
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[02:12:24] <xlefay> err, NCommander* I don't mind getting rid of clamd.. it's hogging 50% memory on beryllium
[02:13:27] <bytram> xlefay, don't worry... it's only using the odd bytes!
[02:13:30] <NCommander> xlefay, kill it!
[02:13:34] <NCommander> WITH FIRE
[02:13:41] <xlefay> ha
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[04:03:26] bytram is now known as martyb|away
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[04:34:41] <NCommander> xlefay, BTW, where's my promises comments on the slashcode development thread :-P
[04:35:24] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[04:36:56] <mrcoolbp> Good evening MrBluze
[04:37:14] <xlefay> NCommander: you'll get it soon enough :p :)
[04:38:10] <xlefay> So my domain is in quarantine and yet spammers still seem to find me .... ;'-)
[04:40:57] -!- GungnirSniper [GungnirSniper!~GungnirSn@btkp-575-88-389-761.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #staff
[04:47:23] <MrBluze> hi mrcoolbp
[04:47:32] <mrcoolbp> yo.
[04:47:33] <MrBluze> good evening
[04:47:40] <MrBluze> hi xlefay
[04:47:44] <xlefay> hi
[04:51:30] <MrBluze> damn gtg to an emergency
[04:51:32] <MrBluze> ciao
[04:54:19] <LaminatorX> Good luck.
[05:01:13] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|afk
[05:01:30] <NCommander> xlefay, hrm, so what horrid thing should be done with the backend now :-)
[05:03:10] <xlefay> Think we should switch the CentOS machine to Windows and install cygwin & openssh, I bet no-one will ever notice!
[05:03:51] <xlefay> oh my.. that would be the best April 1 prank I've ever seen ;-)
[05:04:00] <xlefay> /etc/motd : Welcome to cygwin!
[05:04:28] <xlefay> "Welcome to Cygwin, running on Windows 97! I'll be your host for the day."
[05:05:16] <xlefay> btw, NCommander, I think I'm just going to write wrapper for our tests
[05:05:46] <NCommander> xlefay, ow
[05:05:47] <xlefay> "check_load!5.0!4.0!3.0!10.0!6.0!4.0" ......
[05:05:49] <NCommander> xlefay, ow ow ow
[05:06:08] <NCommander> xlefay, what, and hit them all at once?
[05:06:09] <xlefay> "check_remote_load" would be simpler
[05:06:21] <NCommander> xlefay, yeah, but then it will all show up under one host, no?
[05:06:24] <xlefay> err, wrappers = command definitions such
[05:06:32] <NCommander> xlefay, like the one I wrote for APT?
[05:06:44] <xlefay> no, because of $HOSTADDRESS$
[05:08:23] <xlefay> but the check_by_kssh lines are ugly, thinking of making "li69422_ksh' as a wrapper for all that fancyness, also.. in the '-C' if you have arguments, you gotta do '-C /path/to/$ARG1/ -- -arg'
[05:08:38] <xlefay> -- otherwise check_ssh is going to whine
[05:09:24] <xlefay> li69422_kssh* => /path/to/check_by_kssh -o "StrictHostKeyChecking=no" -o "ControlPath=/var/run/icinga/ssh.%r@%h.socket" -l icinga
[05:09:54] <xlefay> then simply: command line: $USER1$/li69422_kssh -H $HOSTADDRESS -C "whatever"
[05:09:56] <xlefay> thoughts?
[05:10:59] <xlefay> Trying to get this stuff straight before implementing, hence why I'm discussing :P
[05:11:05] <xlefay> .voice GungnirSniper
[05:11:05] -!- mode/#staff [+v GungnirSniper] by SkyNet
[05:11:07] <xlefay> ew... .net
[05:12:20] <GungnirSniper> .Net is American, Open Source is communist. :)
[05:13:31] <xlefay> So, what you're really saying, .Net is extremely insecure, open source isn't? :)
[05:13:45] <xlefay> NCommander: thoughts?
[05:14:12] <NCommander> xlefay, rather just leave the ugliness, gives us a better idea on knowing what to do
[05:14:15] <NCommander> or what its doing
[05:14:38] <xlefay> but if we have 10 command definitions, it's a lot of repeating
[05:15:38] <NCommander> xlefay, trust ...
[05:15:54] <xlefay> trust?
[05:16:01] <GungnirSniper> trust the code
[05:16:37] -!- Bado [Bado!~Bado@Soylent/Staff/Developer/Bado] has joined #staff
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[05:20:50] <LaminatorX> Dear Lord, GungnirSniper is really Craig Mundie!
[05:21:51] <xlefay> Isn't GungnirSniper an editor now..?
[05:22:33] <xlefay> LaminatorX: you should probably: /gs flags !editors GungnirSniper +cmv
[05:22:47] <xlefay> so he gets auto voiced here and stuff' ;)
[05:23:11] * NCommander waves to Bado
[05:23:20] <Bado> Hola!
[05:23:24] <xlefay> GungnirSniper: you can just talk here instead of via notice ;) - and it was to a LaminatorX yes
[05:24:02] <mrcoolbp> .op
[05:24:02] -!- mode/#staff [+o mrcoolbp] by SkyNet
[05:24:05] <NCommander> Bado, your talk of CI scares and frightens the traditionist in me :-P
[05:24:57] <NCommander> Bado, I won't object to CI on the edge service/server, but production shouldn't change frequently
[05:25:33] <GungnirSniper> This IRC stuff is new to me, as though I never had Mosaic on Win3.11 or used dialup.
[05:25:44] <Bado> Heh I don’t encourage auto deployment unless I’m damn sure that the test suite covers pretty much everything. And not with things requiring db changes etc
[05:26:16] <NCommander> GungnirSniper, soylentnews works pretty well with Mosiac
[05:26:19] * NCommander actually tested it
[05:26:58] <NCommander> Bado, I'm not disagreeing with that per say. I've see CI implemented well (launchpad.net mostly works on it)
[05:27:06] <GungnirSniper> If I wanted more nerd points, I've have VMs of old OSes to do that, but I am impressed you tried.
[05:27:09] <NCommander> Bado, my problem is the concept of never having a stable
[05:27:23] <NCommander> GungnirSniper, er, I actually made some headway at a gopher frontend? :-)
[05:27:27] <NCommander> Dynamic gopher FTW
[05:27:46] <Bado> Oh I’m with you on that! I would only allow stable (master) to go, and no merges to it until sure it was a-ok
[05:28:20] <Bado> But anyway, I meant it more of a long-term type of goal. To eventually get to the point where it was possible. It’s a loonnnnnnnnng way off atm
[05:28:22] <NCommander> Bado, oh, they I think we're on the same page
[05:28:38] <NCommander> Bado, well, I have no issue with edge right now always running the bleeding edge as long as the schema is stable
[05:28:43] <Bado> yep.
[05:28:59] <NCommander> Bado, and thats fine w/ CI even with our lack of test suites
[05:29:14] * NCommander notes its called edge for a reason
[05:29:21] <Bado> CI and CD (deployment) two diff things, too. Nothing wrong with a jenkins severer kicking off a build with every github push, after all. But yeah CD is a whole diff animal
[05:29:35] <NCommander> Bado, sorry, got the terms mixed up
[05:29:49] <NCommander> Bado, why do you feel that we shouldn't do CI (as in right now) with an edge server?
[05:30:03] <Bado> CI would be fine!
[05:30:16] <NCommander> Oh good
[05:30:20] <Bado> There just isnt the test suite to really convey accurate info right now
[05:30:21] <NCommander> Then I'm not complete bonkers
[05:30:32] <Bado> well you may be, just for totally diff reasons ;)
[05:30:32] * NCommander mutters more obsenities at UEFI
[05:30:48] <NCommander> Bado, like modifiying iginca (nagios fork) to work with kerberos authetication?
[05:30:59] * NCommander had to liberially apply duct tape to make that work
[05:31:20] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: can we remove Barrabas's editor privs?
[05:31:32] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I removed it
[05:31:41] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I have no idea why slash still has him on the admin list
[05:31:43] <Bado> BTW, NCommander… totally off topic, but if you have a couple of minutes, watch this. As a developer you’ll recognize the sheer brillance and comedy in it, while simultaneously getting knots in your stomach and wanting to punch everyone in the pancreas. This is so brilliantly done! :) https://www.youtube.com
[05:31:45] <NCommander> But he's seclevel 1
[05:31:46] <mrcoolbp> oh
[05:32:37] <mrcoolbp> thanks
[05:32:49] <mrcoolbp> goodnight guys, I need sleep
[05:32:50] <GungnirSniper> Manual database edit him out then? Thanks for checking, my security side was jonesing.
[05:32:58] <GungnirSniper> Goodnight good sir.
[05:33:02] <NCommander> GungnirSniper, have you looked at our schema?
[05:33:08] * NCommander wouldn't know where to delete
[05:33:09] <mrcoolbp> later
[05:33:09] -!- LaminatorX has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
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[05:33:43] <NCommander> xlefay, for monitoring slashd ... I think iginca's passive monitoring might be the way to go
[05:34:25] <xlefay> Yes. :)
[05:35:08] <NCommander> GungnirSniper, its scary and eats babies
[05:36:04] * NCommander wishes we used postgres as well
[05:36:36] <GungnirSniper> And the schema article on Slashcode is 404.
[05:37:29] <NCommander> GungnirSniper, slashcode is a 404
[05:38:23] * NCommander is trying to figure out how the fucking exception handler works in EFI
[05:47:14] <NCommander> Bado, ow ... my brain
[05:47:16] <NCommander> WHHHHHHHHHHHHHY
[05:47:32] <Bado> HAHA! Tell me you’ve never been in that meeting :)
[05:47:39] <NCommander> Bado, actually, I haven't
[05:47:49] <Bado> Seriously? Oh you are so so so lucky
[05:47:50] <NCommander> Bado, Canonical generally doesn't suffer from this problem :-)
[05:48:01] <Bado> But nowhere else in your career?
[05:48:07] <NCommander> Bado, my career started at Canonical
[05:48:18] <Bado> I used to work for Large Financial Corp. Oh the pain of that vid
[05:48:19] <Bado> ahhhhh
[05:48:28] <NCommander> (well, technically, I worked IS before at Concorde Medical Group, but my boss was cool, and it was just us)
[05:49:17] <NCommander> All the managers I worked for have had strong engineering experience
[05:49:24] <Bado> A few companies ago we routinely dealt with clients from outside companies that wanted ascinie projects like in that vid.
[05:49:31] <Bado> That’s always a plus
[05:50:39] <NCommander> I've dealt with that :-/
[05:50:54] <NCommander> Bado, actually, thats ties into a huge part of my finance plans fo SN
[05:51:17] <NCommander> Bado, I want us to run sponsored articles, BUT, I need us to have the ability to say No if we get ascine requests
[05:51:29] <Bado> Yep for sure
[05:51:45] * NCommander is very happy we're getting half a million hits per day substained
[05:51:53] <Bado> Need to be very careful with the sponsored articles though. I seem to recall / trying that it and it not going over very well
[05:52:11] <Bado> Are we gtting that much? Awesome! You guys have done a phenomenal job
[05:52:33] <NCommander> Bado, 2.19M connections in four days, 12 hours, according to varnish
[05:52:39] <NCommander> THe actual number is probably a bit lower
[05:52:48] <Bado> Still… that kicks!
[05:52:53] <NCommander> Bado, did you see the incorporation post on the main index?
[05:53:34] <Bado> I thnk I skimmed that when it came up and I did read thru the emails on the mailing list as well. Unfortunatley ive been so busy with a work project that I haven’t have any real time to digest and add any input
[05:53:47] * Bado goes back to look
[05:55:13] <NCommander> Bado, incidently, were moving to an entirely v6 backend
[05:55:29] <NCommander> Bado, we had indigestion due to having to connect two clouds, so I kinda said fuck it, lets just go IPv6
[05:55:33] <Bado> v6? as in ipv6?
[05:55:36] <NCommander> Yeah :-)
[05:55:40] <NCommander> The future. It's here
[05:55:42] <Bado> cool
[05:55:44] <Bado> heh yeah
[05:55:48] <NCommander> Even slash works with IPv6, though there's a minor gotcha
[05:56:02] <Bado> now if only the sottware requirements could bump up from the 20th century (apache etc)
[05:56:02] <NCommander> (we've got AAAA records on dev)
[05:56:12] <NCommander> Bado, the way we got Apache setup, it doesn't care
[05:56:26] <NCommander> It gets a connection on, and Perl uses the mysql libs to connect to the DB
[05:56:43] <NCommander> varnish (which actually is on port 80) is IPv6 safe, as are the MySQL DB libs
[05:56:46] <Bado> No, I just mean apache mod_perl requirements, regardless of protocal. Just would be nice to get off the old stuff
[05:56:55] <NCommander> Bado, no kidding, but at least its apparmored
[05:57:13] <NCommander> Damn thing is locked up tights than fort knoxs. I'm not too concerned at us being pwned through Apache at the moment
[05:57:15] <Bado> Glad to hear. I have the dev image that was linked to from the wiki, but haven’t pulled it up yet. I wish I had the time
[05:57:26] <Bado> Yeah saw you armoured everything. kudos!
[05:57:29] <NCommander> Bado, I didn't write the AppArmor config file at the time
[05:57:37] <NCommander> Bado, AppArmor isn't SELinux, mere mortals CAN understand it
[05:57:42] <Bado> haha
[05:58:02] <Bado> SELinux has caused me more than one thown blunt object.
[05:58:27] <NCommander> Bado, http://paste.ubuntu.com
[05:58:29] <Bado> Especially since I’m more FreeBSD than Linux so sometimes get lost trying to figure out the Linux Way(tm) when things bork
[05:58:34] <NCommander> Bado, try AppArmor and welcome to the future
[05:59:11] <Bado> Yeah Ive been meaning to
[05:59:50] <Bado> Especially since we’re about a month or so away from launching our newest product to the general public (instead of just internal apps), and we need TIGHT locking down (HIPAA and whatnot)
[06:00:05] <Bado> That config is actually sane. nice.
[06:00:50] <NCommander> Bado, the only odd thing is the difference between * and **
[06:00:54] <NCommander> (** is recursive)
[06:00:56] <NCommander> and "Ix"
[06:00:59] <NCommander> *ix
[06:01:07] <NCommander> Which means inhertit parent permissions/execute
[06:01:15] <NCommander> So if apache starts dash, it gets this apparmor profile
[06:01:17] <Bado> cool
[06:01:27] <Bado> so sort of acl-ish
[06:01:29] <NCommander> Bado, make sure you deploy on ubuntu!
[06:01:37] <NCommander> Bado, pretty much. It works on filenames vs. inodes
[06:01:53] <NCommander> That's a little weaker than SELinux, but I'll trade sanity for usability in this case
[06:01:54] <Bado> Can’t do ubunto; we’ve standardized on FreeBSD
[06:02:07] <Bado> *ubuntu
[06:02:17] <NCommander> Bado, have fun MACing :-)
[06:02:31] <NCommander> Bado, I do like FreeBSD, as far as a kernel goes, I actually consider it saner than Linux in most respects
[06:02:40] <NCommander> The userland still stuck in the early 80s
[06:02:45] <Bado> Networking != $myProblem :D
[06:02:56] <Bado> I actually like the userland, but then again I’m quite used to it
[06:03:19] <NCommander> Bado, I dislike csh as the default shell for users
[06:03:22] <NCommander> NetBSD still sets that
[06:03:35] <NCommander> ksh is ok, but give my bash damn it
[06:03:37] <Bado> I like Linux too, very much so, I just sometimes get overwhelemed at learning the differneces between each distro, plus the location of things that are diff than FBSD
[06:03:52] <Bado> oh yeah bash is the 1st thing i install
[06:03:52] <NCommander> Bado, that's fair.
[06:04:03] <NCommander> Bado, I used to hae to deal with AIX and Solaris
[06:04:08] <NCommander> And I sometimes poke IRIX
[06:04:10] <Bado> ugh
[06:04:16] <Bado> great systems for sure, but ugh
[06:04:20] <NCommander> I usually have bash, gtar, find and gsed in my local PATH
[06:04:32] <NCommander> sometimes coreutils (which I think is a necessity on AIX)
[06:04:47] * NCommander dislikes quirky tars
[06:04:51] * NCommander glares at HP-UX
[06:04:52] <Bado> I generally just boot, portinstall bash and a few essentials, the chsh to be fully changed over
[06:05:06] <NCommander> I'm more used to pkgsrc
[06:05:14] <NCommander> NetBSD == yeahs, its portable
[06:05:18] <Bado> Haven’t used that I don’t think
[06:05:27] <NCommander> pkgin install bash
[06:05:37] <NCommander> Though once you go APT, you may never want to go back
[06:05:41] * NCommander managed to convert xlefay
[06:06:08] <Bado> You know, apt (and yum, and rpm…) tend to piss me off eventually, when they get stuck in the can’t install because of existing dependencies that dont exist loop, etc.
[06:06:16] <Bado> apt not as bad as the others
[06:06:30] <NCommander> Bado, apt-get -f install
[06:06:37] <NCommander> Walk the dependency tree, install all missing dependencies
[06:06:45] <NCommander> (or remove packages if dependencies can't be resolved)
[06:06:53] <Bado> But I do like FBSD’s ports system and the compiling for my achitecture instead of package installs, though im weird. :)
[06:07:03] <NCommander> Bado, apt-get source -b *pkg* :-P
[06:07:06] <Bado> :D
[06:07:06] <NCommander> Build your own debs!
[06:07:33] * NCommander notes if you're so inclined, rebuilding Ubuntu from scratch isn't THAT hard
[06:07:39] <Bado> yeah yeah yeah. I know, it’s all 6 of one, half dozen of the other. it boils down to fbsd being what I learned on and feel comfortable with, and it just feels right to me
[06:08:02] <NCommander> Bado, funny, I started on FreeBSD 2.2 myself
[06:08:12] <Bado> That said, i’ll take a linux box over a windows box any day of the century
[06:08:32] <Bado> Yep i was back on 2.2.5 iirc
[06:08:54] <NCommander> In order of preference
[06:09:59] <NCommander> Ubuntu, Debian, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Slack, NetBSD, Gentoo (these are systems I consider relatively sane),
[06:10:11] <NCommander> Followed by Windows, CentOS
[06:10:15] * NCommander despises CentOS
[06:10:32] <NCommander> I would rather use Windows than deal with fracking CentOS
[06:10:35] <Bado> RHEL too or just cent’s version?
[06:10:38] <Bado> heh wow!
[06:10:48] <NCommander> Bado, I tolerate RHEL slightly more because the support is usually good
[06:10:54] <NCommander> actually
[06:11:11] <NCommander> Solaris, IRIX, AIX (I have a love/hate relation with SMIT), Windows, CentOS
[06:11:30] <NCommander> CentOS's underpinning are garbage, with nothing enforcing library ABIs as best I can tell
[06:11:49] <NCommander> Or anything resembling sane development practices
[06:12:11] <NCommander> RHEL gets forked off from Fedora every once in awhile, and modified in ways that frequently make it only quasi-compatible with its upstream
[06:12:13] <Bado> Wanna hear something utterly scary? We have a production box (not one under my ownership) that’s still stuck on fedora core 6 (or maybe it’s 9)
[06:12:19] <NCommander> Bado, *OW*
[06:12:23] <Bado> YUP
[06:12:34] <NCommander> Bado, that goes right up there with the SCO Xenix box at my old job
[06:13:10] <NCommander> Though SCO Xenix, you're probably saved by security by obsecurity
[06:13:31] <Bado> ouch i just logged in to check. uname reports:
[06:13:36] <Bado> Linux *snip*
[06:13:40] <NCommander> Bado, what's uptime on that fucker?
[06:13:48] <NCommander> Bado, the problem is a lot of people trash Linux because RHEL is shit
[06:13:57] <Bado> 22:13:51 up 523 days,
[06:14:01] <NCommander> Bado, I have a friend that bitches there's no concept of binary compatibility
[06:14:19] <NCommander> While HP-UX can run PA-RISC binaries on Itanium
[06:14:38] <Bado> it’s “only” at 523 because we had a power failure and bad battery. it was at like 1000 previously
[06:14:56] <NCommander> Bado, yesh. That still feels like systems with five digit uptimes
[06:15:02] * NCommander wonders when it rollovers
[06:15:29] <Bado> luckily it’s not to heavily used, but i dont like haveing it
[06:15:35] <NCommander> Bado, honestly, my big grief with CentOS is its not consistent, and its maddening to do simple shit
[06:15:45] * NCommander had to setup X Forwarding to use the LDAP configuration utility
[06:15:58] <NCommander> And play the old game of hunt the package
[06:16:02] <Bado> Yep, that’s how i feel when i dont know an OS like the back of my hand
[06:16:04] <NCommander> No good way to make local modifications
[06:16:24] <NCommander> Bado, that's fair, but Windows is fucking consistent
[06:16:28] <Bado> Is Scientific (I think that’s the name) just as bad since they rebuild from RHEL too?
[06:16:35] <NCommander> Bado, I've never used it
[06:16:43] <Bado> true
[06:16:48] * NCommander recently had to setup an AD domain with Win Server 2012
[06:16:56] <NCommander> That hasn't changed since 2000
[06:17:06] <NCommander> (and that's just because you didn't select at install time if a machine would be a PDC)
[06:17:07] <Bado> I hate AD. Luckily i dont ever have to manage it
[06:17:17] <NCommander> Bado, conceptially, I like AD
[06:17:25] <Bado> oh sure, conceptually!
[06:17:25] <NCommander> Bado, we've got a Linux equivelent of AD server side
[06:17:28] <NCommander> Single signon + LDAP
[06:17:30] <Bado> It just seems to cause more problems than not
[06:17:44] <Bado> You on ubuntu as your main workstation too"?
[06:17:51] <NCommander> Bado, I work for Canonical :-P
[06:17:55] <Bado> duh
[06:17:56] <NCommander> Bado, and yes, I do.
[06:18:04] <Bado> keep forgetting that
[06:18:05] <Bado> :)
[06:18:15] <Bado> <—— switched over to mac 10 years ago
[06:18:18] <NCommander> I'd still run Ubuntu even if I jumped off the Canoical bandwagon
[06:18:23] * NCommander went from Mac to Debian
[06:18:28] <NCommander> later Ubuntu
[06:18:58] * NCommander notes Darwin is fugly internally
[06:19:05] <Bado> I’ve never been able to get past the Tolerate stage of using unix/linux as my workstation until OS X. Its preferable to win, but I always just never felt right
[06:19:14] <Bado> yeah i dont even want to get into darwin’s internals
[06:19:19] <NCommander> Bado, you might want to try Unity :-)
[06:19:21] <Bado> but it’s pretty, and it works (usually)
[06:19:28] <Bado> I have tried it in a virtual
[06:19:33] <Bado> though not recently
[06:19:53] <NCommander> Bado, Apple good at polishing
[06:20:07] <NCommander> But NeXTstep was really only interesting for the Objective-C backend
[06:20:11] <Bado> Yep. Plus the apps are there.
[06:20:20] <NCommander> I've never worked with ObjC heavily, so I can't comment on it
[06:20:27] <NCommander> (though I find the syntax wonky)
[06:21:02] <NCommander> Bado, eh, honestly, most of the major apps I need work fine with Linux
[06:21:08] <Bado> Ive looked at objc but never done anything with it. It is crazy to just look at, but a little research explains it well enough and it’s ok
[06:21:21] <NCommander> Bado, its basically smalltalk bolted to C
[06:26:41] <Bado> Alright, I’m out… early day tomorrow, then a 4 hour drive to CA after work. Have a good one!
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[06:35:57] <NCommander> Bacya
[07:31:58] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[07:45:08] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|afk
[07:47:35] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
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[10:21:33] audioguy is now known as audioguyzzz
[10:32:22] NCommander changed topic of #staff to: http://cosurgi.info | IMPORTANT: Backend changed to pure IPv6, no IPv4. Incase slash looses the database, uncomment helium's private IPv4 address in /etc/hosts (soylent-db line)
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[13:10:13] <NCommander> mattie_p, you whooped my ass ;.;
[13:10:20] <NCommander> mattie_p, guess you got editorial revenge
[13:11:26] <bytram> is there an editor in the house? Typo in latest story: "Mice arent humans" should be: "Mice aren't humans"
[13:11:49] <bytram> in story: http://soylentnews.org
[13:12:08] <xlefay> Wait, are you saying, all this time I've been led to believe mice are humans but they aren't?
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[13:13:26] <bytram> "arent" != "aren't"
[13:15:38] <bytram> mattie_p, can you pls fix?
[13:18:03] <MrBluze> i go fix
[13:19:18] <MrBluze> done it.. waiting for it to go through
[13:19:30] <MrBluze> arent => are not
[13:19:31] <bytram> MrBluze++ # much obliged!
[13:19:31] <DashComma> karma - mrbluze: 3
[13:19:48] <bytram> MrBluze, even better!
[13:20:00] * MrBluze does not generally encourage abreviations in summaries / titles
[13:20:24] * bytram will remember that
[13:20:49] <xlefay> MrBluze: you're absolutely right
[13:20:53] <xlefay> It's bad practice
[13:21:31] <MrBluze> yep
[13:24:28] <bytram> given that most people get "its" and "it's" wrong. =(
[13:24:52] <xlefay> least MrBluze & I have a good excuse
[13:24:52] <MrBluze> word 6.0 used to have an english grammar checker
[13:25:07] <bytram> word for windows or dos?
[13:25:14] <MrBluze> windows
[13:25:29] <bytram> I remember buying Grammatik IV as an add-on to Word 5.0 for DOS. Worked great!
[13:25:39] <MrBluze> it was excellent - it even critiqued the style, eg: you could tell it you wanted generally passive or active cases
[13:25:55] <MrBluze> we should use something like it for the editing
[13:26:16] <MrBluze> in fact the editing page should really be rewritten to be a separate module imho
[13:29:55] <MrBluze> i wonder if there is an opensource thing around.. havent looked for ages
[13:31:11] <MrBluze> http://community.languagetool.org
[13:32:10] <bytram> wouldn't be nice if there was a plug-in where I could specify my editor-of-choice (e.g. emacs, vim, edlin, teco =)
[13:35:41] <MrBluze> it's an area that could do with a lot of work
[13:35:48] <MrBluze> the editor as it is is OK but it's very basic
[13:36:34] <bytram> agreed. Hey, time for me to get ready for the day job...
[13:36:39] <bytram> thanks for the quick fix!
[13:37:42] <MrBluze> no prob.. havent seen it updated yet
[13:37:55] <MrBluze> oh. there it is
[13:40:03] <MrBluze> im off to bed
[13:40:23] <MrBluze> i wil try to do more editing tomorrow .. got to get faster at it
[13:41:04] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|zzz
[13:41:17] <mattie_p> bytram, let me see, just woke up
[13:41:43] <bytram> mattie_p, nvm, brbluze fixed it!
[13:41:55] <mattie_p> ahh, cool
[13:42:06] <bytram> mattie_p, and it's time for me to get ready for my day job.
[13:42:13] <bytram> have fun in the MUD
[13:42:16] <mattie_p> I just saw my thing blinking so I went to go look
[13:42:26] <mattie_p> thanks, bytram, have a good one, talk to you later
[13:42:30] bytram is now known as Bytram|away
[13:43:08] <Bytram|away> btw... xlefay did some magic:
[13:43:12] <Bytram|away> !curent-uid
[13:43:20] <xlefay> !current-uid
[13:43:20] <DashComma> The current maximum UID is 3990, owned by patrick
[13:43:22] <xlefay> two r's :P
[13:43:44] <Bytram|away> arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh! (how's that? =)
[13:44:17] <xlefay> haha ^^
[13:45:49] <Bytram|away> xlefay, oh. quick question! is there a time-stamp in the DB for when each nick was created?
[13:46:16] <xlefay> No clue, I'm not involved in development of slash, but I'm sure there is something of the kind
[13:46:29] <Bytram|away> k, thanks! cya
[13:46:42] <xlefay> ciao, take care now
[13:52:40] <mattie_p> oh hey, nice job, xlefay
[13:52:56] <xlefay> *someone* changed Bender's password on the site..
[13:52:59] <xlefay> hi ;)
[13:53:42] <xlefay> How are you?
[13:54:20] DashComma is now known as PoeticWarlord
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[14:09:46] <mattie_p> still waking up, need coffee. First cup is ready and I'm sipping
[14:10:17] <xlefay> Enjoy ;-)
[14:10:27] <mattie_p> I plan to
[14:10:45] <xlefay> Backing up my files..
[14:11:00] <xlefay> Going to try and see how this Ubuntu thing runs on Desktop
[14:11:14] <xlefay> Yes, the unity one .. last I used it, it was just plain crappy
[14:13:11] <xlefay> got my /home separate but it's all encrypted.. not sure if I want to mess and take my chances on having it work with Ubuntu straight away
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[15:25:04] <janrinok> hi GungnirSniper
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[16:20:02] <xlefay> Morning :)
[16:30:52] <mechanicjay> Good morning!
[16:37:10] <mattie_p> hi, mechanicjay
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[19:40:07] <NCommander> morning mechanicjay !
[19:40:16] <NCommander> mechanicjay, we did something bonkers :-)
[19:40:32] <mechanicjay> besides IPV6? ;)
[19:40:52] <NCommander> mechanicjay, nope, that :-)
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[19:43:16] <mechanicjay> Okay, I give up.
[19:45:18] <NCommander> mechanicjay, no, that's what we did that was bonkers
[19:48:10] <mechanicjay> ah, sorry I misinterpreted your response.
[19:48:48] <mechanicjay> I like that most places seem to be ipv4 on the inside, only exposing ipv6 to outside world if necessary -- yes we're almost the opposite :)
[19:54:46] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[20:43:19] <n1> xlefay, when you get a chance can you check im on the staff mailing list. :) cheers
[20:44:27] <NCommander> mechanicjay, :-) (sorry didn't see hilight)
[20:44:35] <NCommander> mechanicjay, slash MOSTLY works with IPv6, I published AAAA on dev
[20:52:54] <xlefay> n1, you haven't applied for he list yet, I'll accept you once you have. If you need the link, let me know.
[20:54:22] <n1> i need the link
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[21:54:00] <n1> some feedback via a submission; JoeMerchant writes "If Soylent News "is people" you might consider using the color green in your theme... Also, the help doesn't make it obvious how to mail a specific user."
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[22:15:26] <mattie_p> n1, I'll take a look at that soon and contact them. color is coming with user themes (eventually) and unless the person posts their email address publicly I'm not inclined to make it easy for users to email each other
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[22:17:38] <xlefay> mattie_p, I would say, a PM system that users could use could prove to be useful
[22:17:38] <xlefay> mailing directly is just a disaster waiting to happen
[22:19:05] <mattie_p> yeah, I'm not in favor of direct mail
[22:19:22] <mattie_p> if a user puts it in their profile and makes it available, that's one thing
[22:19:44] <mattie_p> but direct mail through the site is unsolicited and unappreciated
[22:19:55] <mattie_p> you have something to tell a user, make a comment to something they post
[22:20:29] <xlefay> exactly
[22:20:44] <xlefay> Although, long term speaking I would be in favor of an in-house user to user PM system.
[22:21:25] <mattie_p> that would probably be acceptable, IIRC there is something already half-built in there
[22:21:52] <xlefay> Currently, it's just site -> user
[22:26:28] <mattie_p> I'm fine with that
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[23:00:53] <NCommander> mattie_p, so PMs exist as a table in the database
[23:01:02] <NCommander> mattie_p, which is used currently for "Web" messages from the site
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[23:14:47] <NCommander> FunPika, ping, ... is the mediawki reference module MIA?
[23:14:53] <NCommander> I'm trying to generate wikipedia like inline citations
[23:16:15] <mrcoolbp> everyone: please add your email to the staff vote list: http://staff.soylentnews.org
[23:17:11] <xlefay> I will after reading that page. Is the source available yet?
[23:18:27] <audioguyzzz> xlefay: its on the system. Just look in /home/staffvote.
[23:18:55] <xlefay> I see, thank you, sleep typer audioguy :)
[23:18:58] audioguyzzz is now known as audioguy
[23:19:01] <mrcoolbp> heh
[23:19:09] <xlefay> :p
[23:19:12] <mrcoolbp> hey audioguy!
[23:19:31] <audioguy> It's just a litte hack, xlefay, not resume-level stuff ;-)
[23:19:38] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, what's the username/pass?
[23:19:42] <xlefay> ah
[23:19:44] <NCommander> Its not kerberosized login
[23:19:50] <xlefay> ^ which is a pity
[23:20:02] <mrcoolbp> ncommander: PM
[23:20:06] <audioguy> [rolls eyes]
[23:20:40] <NCommander> Added
[23:20:40] <xlefay> ^ I could have foretold that
[23:20:49] <NCommander> audioguy, looks very nice simple and clean
[23:20:52] <NCommander> audioguy, very well done
[23:21:04] * NCommander hugs audioguy
[23:21:07] <mrcoolbp> aw
[23:21:14] <audioguy> Thanks!
[23:21:24] <xlefay> aww, can we get a picture of this moment?
[23:21:32] * NCommander is working on writing up the pros and cons of US incorporation
[23:21:36] <NCommander> First sentence
[23:21:43] <mrcoolbp> ...
[23:21:44] <NCommander> Well
[23:21:46] <NCommander> paragraph
[23:21:46] <NCommander> The United States is subdivided into 50 states, 4 unincorperated organized territories, several unincorperated unorganized terroitories, and the District of Colombia. In a legal sense, it operates as fifty independent nations bound together under a federal government, similiar in relation of the European Union and its member states. Terroitories are directly administrated by the federal government, and not have representation in eith
[23:21:46] <NCommander> er the Congress or the Senate.
[23:21:50] <audioguy> You can kerberize it later NC ;-)
[23:22:24] <xlefay> Oh, generally when someone says "First sentence" I'm expecting a few words ending with '...' but I guess you're the real deal eh ;-)
[23:22:38] <mrcoolbp> NCommander "representation in eith" ?
[23:22:39] <NCommander> xlefay, I'm writing a summary of how the US legal system goes together
[23:22:53] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, it got cut off "er the congress or the senate"
[23:22:58] <NCommander> was how that line ended
[23:22:58] <FunPika> NCommander: Cite extension isn't installed currently.
[23:23:01] <mrcoolbp> ah, looks good
[23:23:03] <NCommander> FunPika, can we get it?
[23:23:05] <NCommander> :-)
[23:23:38] <NCommander> FunPika, I'm probably going to need your help with citations and shit, I haen't done this in a very long time
[23:23:42] * NCommander wishes he had a copy of refman
[23:24:46] <audioguy> "The Us has 50 states and innumerable territories, including Canada, Europe, the Pacific Islands,..."
[23:25:05] <mrcoolbp> heh
[23:25:39] * xlefay smacks audioguy
[23:26:02] <xlefay> You can have Canada and the Pacific Islands, that's it :P
[23:26:10] <audioguy> Just ask our politicians ;-)
[23:26:39] <xlefay> ha
[23:27:52] <mrcoolbp> FunPika, please sign up for the staff-vote list: http://staff.soylentnews.org
[23:28:29] <audioguy> "If you don't register, you can't vote" :-)
[23:29:05] <mrcoolbp> "I want you! (to vote on staff issues)"
[23:29:48] <mrcoolbp> Landon: I got your email, you should talk to xlefay probably = )
[23:30:35] <xlefay> What's up?
[23:30:47] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: let me forward you the email...
[23:31:06] <xlefay> xlefay@soylentnews.org please ;-)
[23:31:32] <mrcoolbp> i know buddy
[23:32:27] <xlefay> Yes, I requested that change because BenderBot's password was changed and thus !current-uid and such didn't work, I had to reset the password somehow, so I changed the e-mail address associated with it's user.
[23:32:45] <mrcoolbp> I know I think he was trying to be funny...
[23:33:04] <xlefay> Oh
[23:33:08] <mrcoolbp> "If this is not correct, if you did not request this change,
[23:33:08] <mrcoolbp> please email us immediately at admin@soylentnews.org"
[23:33:16] <mrcoolbp> = )
[23:33:39] <xlefay> Regardless, figured I'd explain :P
[23:33:46] <xlefay> I would*
[23:34:12] <mrcoolbp> I'd is a proper contraction for I would in my book. Should I let you explain to him?
[23:34:49] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[23:35:02] <mrcoolbp> looks like FunPika might have it sorted out already
[23:35:12] <FunPika> just finished installing it...
[23:35:19] <xlefay> mrcoolbp, I figured but wasn't sure.
[23:35:36] <mrcoolbp> nice work Funpika
[23:35:50] <mrcoolbp> FunPika, also please sign up for the staff-vote list: http://staff.soylentnews.org
[23:36:21] * mrcoolbp loves how cosurgi replied to the email about the voting but didn't sign up yet....
[23:36:44] <mrcoolbp> this is my job people, to go around bugging other people...le sigh
[23:36:48] <audioguy> He's probably still reading the instructions. ;-)
[23:36:50] <mrcoolbp> hah
[23:37:28] <FunPika> signed up
[23:37:54] <mrcoolbp> yup, I see it now. Thanks!
[23:38:49] <audioguy> Excellent work mrcoolbp ;-)
[23:41:10] <NCommander> Seperation between the federal goverment and the states is defined by the US Constition, defining which powers is reserved by the federal government and those by the individual states. Unlike the European Union, the federal government can levy taxes across the union (under the concept of "Taxiation equals Representation") and represent the states collective in international matters. Powers not granted to the federal government remain
[23:41:10] <NCommander> in the hands of the states. All states are bound to the US Constition which operates as the highest law in the land.
[23:41:13] <NCommander> Slowly coming together
[23:41:14] <NCommander> ugh
[23:41:27] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, I'm going to finish this summary, then citation it properly
[23:41:38] <mrcoolbp> cool
[23:49:22] <NCommander> With the exception of the State of Lousinia, both the federal government and the states operate under a system of common law. Common law is built on a combination of statue and case law, with case law in redefining, narrowing or widing statues. Due to the relationship between the federal and state governments, case law is only binding to the justication in which is was founded. In short, where a case is decided defines where the deci
[23:49:22] <NCommander> sion becomes binding. Court in the United States operate on both a state and federal level, with the Supreme Court being the highest court for both.
[23:49:24] <NCommander> Weee
[23:49:29] * NCommander forgot how much fun US law is