#staff | Logs for 2014-03-14
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[00:00:38] <paulej72> robind: are you around?
[00:18:04] <FatPhil> briefly, ues
[00:18:41] <robind> sup
[00:18:58] <paulej72> FatPhil: Have you looked at my commit on github at all https://github.com
[00:19:23] <paulej72> robind: can you give me owner access to the GitHub reop
[00:19:51] <FatPhil> trying to have a peek now...
[00:20:07] <paulej72> robind: also have you seen my commit as well. I am trying to get someone else to sign off on it.
[00:20:18] <robind> paulej72, can't do it right now, I gave you owner access
[00:20:23] <robind> actually about to leave the office for home
[00:20:26] <robind> i'll be back in a couple hours
[00:20:35] <robind> just be careful k
[00:20:38] <robind> you know that though ;)
[00:20:43] <paulej72> yes
[00:21:00] <paulej72> thanks robind
[00:21:11] <robind> np
[00:21:20] <robind> seeya guys later
[00:21:20] -!- robind has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[00:21:29] * paulej72 goes and delete the repo on GitHub :)
[00:24:29] <FatPhil> 6de6f27's fine
[00:24:51] <paulej72> OK thanks
[00:24:59] <FatPhil> eeece3d looks like about 3 different changes smooshed into one, so hard to review
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[00:28:31] <FatPhil> ditto a896104, but at least they're not all mixed up with each other. Are there screenshots of the things that need to change?
[00:30:21] <paulej72> FatPhil: I did not think to do any screenshots. I will have to remember to do that in the future.
[00:30:40] <FatPhil> a896104 adds stuff that 502dbe5 removes, which means that you could have ammended a896104. Are you familiar with git add -p and git commit --amend?
[00:31:22] <FatPhil> and git rebase -i ?
[00:32:07] <FatPhil> c321e45's fine
[00:32:56] <FatPhil> as is
[00:32:56] <FatPhil> as is
[00:32:56] <FatPhil> Fix org template links to match current systems.
[00:33:08] <FatPhil> fab16f0
[00:33:10] <FatPhil> oops
[00:33:17] <paulej72> FatPhil: no I am not familiar with all of th git stuff, I only started working with git three weeks ago.
[00:33:42] <FatPhil> as is fab16f0, but the same applies about amending
[00:34:08] <FatPhil> You're gonna love all three of those commands!
[00:35:26] <paulej72> FatPhil, I would love if you were able to put up a little git primer on the Wiki. The stuff I wrote fro the VM primer is not very good as I am such a newbie.
[00:39:46] <FatPhil> I could even use your patches as an example so I don't have to create my own! Alas, I just can't sign up to github :-(
[00:40:16] <FatPhil> I guess not that those two things are related
[00:40:59] <paulej72> FatPhil: audioguy has a similar issue, but he does not want to use GitHub due to its use of JS.
[00:41:42] <FatPhil> yeah, I even enabled JS (normally I have it off), and it still doesn't work.
[00:41:58] <FatPhil> Their support response was "sorry, your browser's not supported"
[00:42:20] <paulej72> I think we need to talk with NCommander and see what the best place for our repo should be. I can see the benefits of GitHub and at the sme time see the benefits of our own hosted git server.
[00:42:23] <FatPhil> what's the giturl of the repo
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[00:43:28] <paulej72> https://github.com is this what you are taking about?
[00:44:04] <FatPhil> is usually ends .git
[00:44:14] <FatPhil> grep url .git/config
[00:44:29] -!- mode/#staff [+v xlefay] by buttercake
[00:44:30] <xlefay> git clone on that'll will work
[00:44:31] <FatPhil> it's the parameter you gave the clone command
[00:44:43] <xlefay> https://github.com # actually to be precise
[00:45:28] <FatPhil> yup, cloning
[00:45:42] <xlefay> (the url paulej72 gave would work fine for cloning as well btw)
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[00:48:21] <xlefay> .voice prospectacle
[00:48:21] -!- mode/#staff [+v prospectacle] by buttercake
[00:48:28] <prospectacle> don't know if you're still looking, but wrote a polling system if you want it.
[00:48:32] <prospectacle> http://soylentnews.org
[00:53:21] <paulej72> FatPhil: just incase you want to look https://github.com
[01:00:30] <prospectacle> thanks
[01:00:44] <xlefay> guys: http://sylnt.us is that slow for you too?
[01:01:22] -!- Landon has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[01:01:42] <prospectacle> hasn't loaded after 30 seconds
[01:01:56] <xlefay> k thx
[01:02:11] -!- Landon [Landon!~Landon@Soylent/Staff/IRC/Landon] has joined #staff
[01:02:11] -!- mode/#staff [+v Landon] by buttercake
[01:02:11] <paulej72> yes a bit slow xlefay
[01:03:02] <prospectacle> now it's quick
[01:03:14] <xlefay> yeah same here
[01:03:59] <paulej72> ddos?
[01:04:05] <paulej72> :)
[01:04:29] <xlefay> well Khyber wanted to attack me (e.g. the IRC, so if I were to guess, I'd assume he thinks sylnt.us belongs to me)
[01:05:52] <paulej72> he could be using the irc.sylnt.org address so it would be an probable assumption
[01:06:06] <xlefay> no
[01:06:20] <xlefay> irc.sylnt.us is routed to my server's IP, and I'm not under attack.
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[01:09:21] -!- mode/#staff [+v Landon_] by buttercake
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[01:10:03] <paulej72> xlefay: he gave up on your server and is hitting one level up now, would be my guess
[01:10:19] Landon_ is now known as Landon
[01:10:35] <xlefay> no, I don't think he even started on mine (I figured out the traffic raise on mine was unrelated)... I'm just guessing he's been hitting Landon from the start.
[01:11:18] <paulej72> well he does seem under the influence of some drug so anything is possible
[01:12:02] <paulej72> by the way xlefay what was that big transfer earlier in the morning that was on the graph you posted
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[01:12:23] <xlefay> which graph was that one?
[01:14:22] <paulej72> xlefay: I can't find it, I may have been further in my scroll back than today.
[01:14:33] <xlefay> speedtest.net or a green charted chart?
[01:14:53] <paulej72> green one
[01:15:09] <xlefay> yeah that was actually my server hitting amazon SES, massive mail got send out
[01:16:06] <paulej72> ok
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[01:18:01] -!- mode/#staff [+v Landon] by buttercake
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[01:25:49] <FatPhil> I totally suck at wiki
[01:25:51] <FatPhil> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[01:27:25] <paulej72> FatPhil: mind if I fix it up a bit and move it under the dev pages?
[01:28:05] <FatPhil> Please do!
[01:33:19] <FatPhil> paulej72: shout when you're done, I'd like to add another principle...
[01:33:34] <paulej72> Ok I am about done.
[01:33:52] <FatPhil> IF there's something you want me to expand on, just create a section with [please write this] in it or something!
[01:34:29] <paulej72> FatPhil:
[01:34:39] <mattie_p> paulej72: pm sent
[01:35:08] <paulej72> Might want to expand the whole common tasks section. It might be useful
[01:35:23] <paulej72> Also I am done making my changes now
[01:53:51] <FatPhil> Yeah, some of the common tasks aren't so trivial if you're a novice, and should be expanded
[01:57:47] <paulej72> FatPhil: thanks for doing this I personally will be looking up those command ad looking at the reference you gave.
[02:00:21] <FatPhil> add -p and rebase -i will change your life!
[02:00:45] <FatPhil> rebase --abort is essential to know too though, as it's not a miracle worker!
[02:02:28] <paulej72> I have been using the gitgub gui to do my commits, although the command line is much more flexible.
[02:12:00] <FatPhil> I'm hardcore commandline. GUIs get in the way
[02:13:05] <FatPhil> if common commands are too long - aliases or shell functions can help
[02:14:02] <FatPhil> bash tab completion can do things like match branch names, which can speed things up (if you want to load zigabytes of shell scripts into your interactive shells, which I don't)
[02:15:00] <paulej72> I have been trying to at least group my commits by the issue I was dying to fix. also I have been trying to comment them fairly well.
[02:15:17] <paulej72> i love bash tab complete
[02:20:06] <paulej72> FatPhil: I am reading you changes, and I have a couple of questions. should I have a branch for each change or just for and issue. Currently I am working on redoing the preferences and I have all of the changes in one branch.
[02:20:11] <FatPhil> I did, until I saw the size of bash_complete or whatever the script's called. I'm using a 10-year old machine with only 224MB RAM - I'm pared down to the absolute minimum
[02:20:58] <stderr> I hate bash_complete...
[02:21:00] <FatPhil> one branch per pull request. branches are cheap.
[02:21:30] <FatPhil> pull requests should be coherent.
[02:22:23] <FatPhil> if you think a reviewer might say "what's this patch doing in this set" then it probably should be done in a different branch.
[02:22:27] <paulej72> OK I have not been doing that but I will start now. I have never done large group dev stuff before, so this is all new to me
[02:22:44] <stderr> Half the time, tab doesn't complete because bash_complete is stupid and then you have to do all sort of workarounds like using ls as the command, then tab complete, then change "ls" to that command you wanted to run...
[02:22:46] <stderr> Bah!
[02:23:33] <FatPhil> there are some completion quirks, certainly. Quirks + bloat = uninstall
[02:24:07] <FatPhil> It shouldn;t be a monolithic file anyway
[02:24:39] <FatPhil> each command-line package should supply its own completion helpers, adn they should be managed like menu
[02:25:03] <FatPhil> it's late, I think I'm incoherent, laters dudes
[02:25:39] <paulej72> another git question, I have grouping files in a single commit that are interrelated. A change in one is dependent on another. Should these be separated?
[02:26:03] <paulej72> later FatPhil
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[04:30:12] <mattie_p> .op
[04:30:12] -!- mode/#staff [+o mattie_p] by buttercake
[04:30:25] <mattie_p> so seriously, NCommander hasn't been on for a while
[04:30:31] <mattie_p> I'm taking over until I cannot
[04:30:46] mattie_p changed topic of #staff to: Commander: mattie_p (respect the p)
[04:32:55] <matt_> mattie_p: nice new poll!
[04:33:14] <mattie_p> had some encouragement on it
[04:33:26] <mattie_p> I credit drussel in ## for coming up with it
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[04:33:30] <mattie_p> but thank you
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[04:35:17] -!- mode/#staff [+v MrBluze] by buttercake
[04:35:40] <mattie_p> that actually kills two birds with one stone. 1) new poll 2) explain why we're not doing the name poll
[04:35:47] <mattie_p> ** yet
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[05:09:19] -!- mode/#staff [+v drcoolbp] by buttercake
[05:09:49] <drcoolbp> <---back
[05:09:55] <MrBluze> wb
[05:10:10] <MrBluze> mattie_p: regarding making community decisions
[05:10:33] <mattie_p> yessir
[05:10:42] <MrBluze> it's a dilemma
[05:10:46] <mattie_p> I know it is
[05:10:48] <MrBluze> if you make a fully valid voting system
[05:10:54] <MrBluze> u give the voting system more credence
[05:11:11] <MrBluze> that makes staff's ability to overrule more difficult
[05:11:29] <mattie_p> I agree, it does
[05:11:40] <MrBluze> and it might sometimes be better for staff to overrule especially if good reasons are put forward that cannot be explained or understood by general public
[05:12:05] <MrBluze> therefore a poll should still be a poll - to gauge opinion
[05:12:10] <MrBluze> and then decisions explained to the public
[05:12:23] <mattie_p> if the staff needs to rule in a certain way for legitimate reasons, it probably should not go out for vote anyway, but as an article or journal or something
[05:12:37] <drcoolbp> ^^^^^^
[05:12:47] <drcoolbp> yeah, don't give them a false sense of choice
[05:13:01] <mattie_p> something like this, the name? Honestly, one name is as arbitrary as another. Simple majority preference would be best
[05:13:10] <MrBluze> a vote should exist for a member base
[05:13:16] <MrBluze> and that ought to be paid
[05:13:33] <mattie_p> but for something like business model, we posted a discussion on it, and got good feedback, but we'll have to make the final choices there
[05:13:35] <MrBluze> eg: voting for a leader, or constitutional change, or financial direction, or whatever
[05:13:46] <MrBluze> of course
[05:13:57] <mattie_p> yes, by-laws will probably need a vote
[05:14:02] <mattie_p> but that is a straight up or down
[05:14:05] <MrBluze> yes, that's easy
[05:14:18] <MrBluze> but at this early stage, letting random UID's determine our future is problematic i think
[05:15:04] <MrBluze> i mean, i am strongly in favour of community direction - it's part of the mission i guess, it's what we are, but at this point in the site's life i dunno how much to worry about the voting/polling system
[05:15:29] <drcoolbp> hmm
[05:15:37] <mattie_p> I'm honestly not too worried about it
[05:15:47] <drcoolbp> is this still private?
[05:15:55] <MrBluze> no
[05:15:57] <mattie_p> this is a public channel
[05:15:57] <drcoolbp> they are having the same discussion in #soylent
[05:16:08] <MrBluze> i know
[05:16:16] <MrBluze> but it's noisy in there
[05:16:22] <mattie_p> yeah it is
[05:16:38] <MrBluze> this isnt anything to keep private its just something to consider
[05:16:54] <MrBluze> eg: i reckon some things like choosing the name for the project (if it changes) is a thing that some might want to stack
[05:17:38] <mattie_p> MrBluze, I agree. We will have to come up with some criteria for it. I don't know what that is yet
[05:18:15] <MrBluze> if we dont need to rush, we shouldnt .. i mean we can rush into choosing a name, sure
[05:18:20] <mattie_p> registered before the vote opens is a probably gimme (no accounts created after poll opens can vote)
[05:18:24] <MrBluze> but the actual change of name should be very carefully conducted
[05:18:40] <mattie_p> That's just it, I don't want to rush into choosing the name.
[05:19:00] <mattie_p> However, it has been promised by multiple leaders at multiple times
[05:19:00] <MrBluze> maybe we should put the potential names forward
[05:19:25] <MrBluze> given that the domains have been bought already .. and then allow for discussion, and further submissions of owned domain names
[05:19:26] <mattie_p> have a campaign season before the vote?
[05:19:38] <MrBluze> well just in a post, to put it out there for all
[05:20:07] <MrBluze> after all non irc / non wiki reading people might complain they did not have the chance to participate
[05:21:02] <mattie_p> hrm, so you are suggesting posting the current 6 + SN, soliciting feedback on those, and opening up for more suggestions?
[05:21:20] <MrBluze> potentially
[05:21:36] <MrBluze> althought the six + SN were themselves shortlisted by staff
[05:21:40] <mattie_p> I'm open to that. I can make sure that sees the light of day
[05:22:00] <mattie_p> MrBluze that is true, from the suggestions given the staff shortlisted them
[05:22:10] <MrBluze> yep
[05:22:19] <MrBluze> debian has a two week voting period
[05:22:49] <MrBluze> i dunno if u had a look at their voting system .. it looks clever - i think it's in the repo's somewhere
[05:23:20] <drcoolbp> (it's acutally a really good discussion over there right now)
[05:23:53] <MrBluze> ok lets go there
[05:24:00] <mattie_p> <drussell> mattie_p: no voice, sorry to interrupt staff but hope you see this... I think the name may be one of the most critical votes ever, actually, and needs to be done right for many reasons, will try to collect and write up my thoughts coherently tonight...
[05:24:44] <mattie_p> drussel, please don't feel bad about interrupting, we appreciate the feedback
[05:25:02] <MrBluze> drussell: yep your input is valuable
[05:25:37] <MrBluze> yes.. many reasons eg: legal, journalistic, etc
[05:25:50] <drcoolbp> drussel: please let us know if you post a journal or something
[05:26:31] <MrBluze> give him voice
[05:26:33] <MrBluze> .voice drussell
[05:26:33] -!- mode/#staff [+v drussell] by buttercake
[05:26:39] <MrBluze> speak up mate
[05:26:48] <drcoolbp> .op
[05:26:48] -!- mode/#staff [+o drcoolbp] by buttercake
[05:26:53] <drussell> Thanks, guys...
[05:27:06] <drcoolbp> no problem
[05:27:07] <MrBluze> do elaborate
[05:27:16] <drcoolbp> please: go on....
[05:27:44] <drussell> I think for one thing, one of the most important things about the name is it WILL help instill a feeling of community if a name is chosen that is mostly agreeable to most people, which
[05:28:09] <drussell> was one of the reasons I was so highly advocating for dome type of ranked voting system when this whole discussion started
[05:28:45] <drcoolbp> dome-type?
[05:29:03] <MrBluze> yeah, define that .. and also how do u think we deal with the stacking of votes?
[05:29:14] <MrBluze> we + should + deal
[05:29:27] <drussell> I've been dismayed at the lack of flexibility even for POLLS in the original slash system for many years and think even for polls there should be multiple polling methods, but for this name vote, we have to get *THAT* one bretty much perfect
[05:29:37] <drussell> (sorry, have back problems right now, I
[05:29:46] <drussell> I'm typing lying down and it's slow
[05:29:50] <drcoolbp> no problem
[05:29:56] <drussell> Wireless keyboard is sure handy though :)
[05:29:58] <drcoolbp> we agree, hence all the discussion
[05:29:59] <MrBluze> yes, true
[05:30:22] <mattie_p> back in a few, I am still in command. no pitchforks, guys :)
[05:30:22] <MrBluze> we're patient and we're listening
[05:30:23] <drussell> That's one of the main reasons I was saying I'll collect some of my thoughts in one place :)
[05:30:52] <drcoolbp> mattie_p: no promises
[05:30:55] <MrBluze> lol mattie_p ok
[05:31:02] <drussell> There are so many different ways to do voting, as you know, and all have their strengths and weaknesses
[05:31:03] <MrBluze> what about salad forks?
[05:31:17] <drcoolbp> drussel: a journal entry might be appropo, let us know if you post one
[05:31:32] <drussell> The important thing is finding the best solution for the name vote before it goes live
[05:31:37] <MrBluze> but if u can explain it here it's very helpful too
[05:32:10] <drcoolbp> yes, we would like to get this decision soon, but we share the need for accuracy here
[05:32:16] <drussell> sure we can make future polls better and they only need to be good enough, but THIS name vote must get it right, as it will
[05:32:44] <MrBluze> perhaps we should host the poll on a site that does this properly
[05:32:50] <drcoolbp> we talked about multiple rounds to help narrow in on the accuracy
[05:32:55] <drussell> have a huge effect on the future attitude of the community, etc (as you all already know)
[05:33:01] <drussell> Rounds has problems
[05:33:14] <MrBluze> ranking is better than rounds
[05:33:23] <drussell> The best solution is one which doesn't actually ... yes MrBluze
[05:33:36] <drussell> It should be done in one shot
[05:33:42] <MrBluze> yes and blind ballot
[05:33:48] <MrBluze> err.. secret ballot
[05:33:50] <drussell> Yes
[05:34:01] <MrBluze> well blinded - but we need to verify each vote
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[05:34:11] <drussell> Yes
[05:34:21] <MrBluze> ok so what's dome voting
[05:34:46] <drcoolbp> .voice prospectacle
[05:34:46] -!- mode/#staff [+v prospectacle] by buttercake
[05:35:24] <MrBluze> hi prospectacle
[05:35:35] <drcoolbp> drussel: please explain "dome voting"
[05:35:36] <prospectacle> Good afternoon
[05:36:17] <drcoolbp> <FoobarBazbot> drcoolbp: it was a typo for some
[05:36:30] <MrBluze> ohh ok
[05:36:53] <MrBluze> we could do the australian electoral commission system of voting
[05:36:58] <prospectacle> Just as an aside: Ranked votings sytems suffer from arrow's impossibility theorem http://en.wikipedia.org Approval voting does not
[05:37:01] <MrBluze> each candidate is numbered 1-n
[05:37:35] <MrBluze> and if no vote gets majority, it goes to round 2 and so on
[05:38:26] <MrBluze> ie: if 1's not majority, count 1+2's, if not majority, count 1+2+3's
[05:38:44] <drussell> drcoolbp, Sorry, yeah was some, not dome :)
[05:38:52] <drcoolbp> got it
[05:38:56] <prospectacle> MrBluze, in Aus, if no majority, the elimiate a candidate, and take the second preference votes for only that candidate.
[05:39:01] <MrBluze> that way something that might not be most popular as first choice might still win, because it was the most popular second choice
[05:39:18] <MrBluze> actually ur right
[05:39:20] <MrBluze> but yeah
[05:40:26] <MrBluze> however drussell another aspect to this, we have not really publicised the way in which candidate names can be put forward
[05:40:28] -!- Ethanol-fueled [Ethanol-fueled!~46b32d49@uz08-407-28-56.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #staff
[05:41:09] <drcoolbp> .voice ethanol-fueled
[05:41:09] -!- mode/#staff [+v Ethanol-fueled] by buttercake
[05:41:14] <drcoolbp> <Ethanol-fueled> Sup fellas.
[05:41:19] <drussell> sorry for the delay, give me a couple mins here, I need to take another pill or two and stretch my back out so I can sit here and type properly for a few mins :) Continue on and I'll read scrollback (I want to pull up a couple of those pages on ranked voting and such as well)
[05:41:28] -!- kobach [kobach!~nope@Soylent/Staff/IRC/kobach] has joined #staff
[05:41:28] -!- mode/#staff [+v kobach] by buttercake
[05:41:38] <drcoolbp> welcome ethanol-fueled
[05:41:48] <kobach> theres been a lot of opping and voicing in here, whats going on
[05:42:10] <drcoolbp> we are discussing the name voting and community polling in general
[05:42:23] <kobach> figured
[05:42:27] <kobach> carry on
[05:42:29] <drussell> MrBluze, No, that's another point I was going to make in a bit...
[05:42:32] * kobach sits down
[05:42:52] * drussell back in a few moments... Sorry I'm so hobbled right now :(
[05:42:59] <MrBluze> no worries
[05:43:24] <prospectacle> Potentially could have write-in candidates? Put "newoption++" in your comment
[05:43:57] <drcoolbp> for the name vote that may not work
[05:44:00] <drcoolbp> let me explain
[05:44:11] <prospectacle> you're right, the domain needs to be owned already
[05:44:14] <drcoolbp> we have secured domains ourselves and via users
[05:44:16] <MrBluze> well the criteria, at a minimum, for name candidates are: the domain name(s) must be already reserved
[05:44:17] <drcoolbp> exactly
[05:44:35] <prospectacle> getting ahead of myself
[05:44:40] <Ethanol-fueled> I am hobbled as well, from the ethanol-fuel and a long day working like a Mexican, so i'm gonna split. But I'll be back tomorrow and hopefully with meaningful things to contribute.
[05:44:44] <MrBluze> and that domain MUST be made freely available to us if it is selected, no strings attached, no cost involved.
[05:44:55] <MrBluze> lol cheers Ethanol-fueled :)
[05:45:08] <Ethanol-fueled> Good night everybody.
[05:45:10] <drcoolbp> Ethanol-fueled, we'll see you then!
[05:45:23] <drcoolbp> .devoice ethanol-fueled
[05:45:23] -!- mode/#staff [-v Ethanol-fueled] by buttercake
[05:45:27] <prospectacle> Night Ethanol-fueled
[05:45:38] -!- Ethanol-fueled has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[05:45:39] -!- mode/#staff [+o kobach] by buttercake
[05:46:08] <prospectacle> Maybe this has come up already, but secret ballots were invented to prevent political violence. Not much risk of that here.
[05:46:30] <drcoolbp> well, we are trying to avoid bias voting
[05:46:51] <drussell> prospectacle, They were invented for that but have many positive side effects
[05:47:17] <prospectacle> drcoolbp: like voting to spite something that is doing well?
[05:47:20] <MrBluze> well the main thing is voting continues and counting does not commence until after voting is finished
[05:47:26] <drcoolbp> something like that
[05:49:04] <drcoolbp> okay, so main points that have been made so far: we need to get this name vote right, slash voting is horrid, we can re-write slash system but that would take work, we could use another system
[05:49:20] * MrBluze nods
[05:49:22] <drcoolbp> we need a balance, the name should be chosen soon
[05:49:29] <prospectacle> Just to add to options: DemoChoice is FOSS php web voting
[05:49:42] * drcoolbp writes that down
[05:49:47] <MrBluze> yeah we could just run a web voting app for this
[05:49:52] <MrBluze> and then take it away for use another time
[05:50:05] <MrBluze> as long as we are able to cross-reference votes with email addresses
[05:50:11] <MrBluze> and then look those up in the userbase
[05:50:23] <drcoolbp> that would take a lot of work potentially
[05:51:33] <prospectacle> Is it possible to hide comments for a story, I mean from users, but not from ops? Then you could do a comment-scraping system without it being public. You could easily verify users, etc.
[05:51:37] <MrBluze> well its less work than writing something in perl
[05:52:00] <MrBluze> its just matching two tables
[05:52:10] <drcoolbp> anything is possible, but prospectacle: that may also require a significant amount of work
[05:52:23] <prospectacle> ok
[05:52:24] <drussell> I think for the name vote we could code our own fairly easily, i'll elaborate in a few moments, I'm still lying on the floor reading sideways... I should RandR LOL
[05:52:42] <kobach> crazy canadian
[05:52:58] <kobach> :p
[05:53:05] <drcoolbp> drussell, maybe, but having it integrated into slash would make it more difficult, slash is...lets say counter-intuitive in some ways
[05:53:06] -!- kobach [kobach!~nope@Soylent/Staff/IRC/kobach] has parted #staff
[05:53:38] <MrBluze> well i know i could write this easily in php, or whatever - can write it in an afternoon .. but we are then looking at a development cycle and its better to get something off the shelf
[05:53:43] <drussell> I understand that and I envision eventually hot rodding the poll system, but I bet we could do a one off for the name vote
[05:54:42] <drcoolbp> drussell: if you care to volunteer an effort to that effect.....
[05:54:45] <drcoolbp> = )
[05:55:11] <prospectacle> demochoice hosts votes too, for up to 12000 voters (paste in a list of email addresses).
[05:55:21] <drussell> It also looks a heck of a lot more professional if it's well integrated into the site, but hey, if an off-the-shelf solution fits, then by all means we should not reinvent the wheel
[05:55:40] <drcoolbp> prospectacle: noted
[05:55:57] <MrBluze> well for the name choice
[05:56:05] <MrBluze> its not worth waiting and developing a voting system etc
[05:56:17] <MrBluze> because it changes everything about the site presentation
[05:56:47] <drussell> Yes, that's one of my main points, this vote is very important and should not be a stopgap solution even if it's not what is used in the future
[05:56:50] <MrBluze> and if we are to actually change names, it is a monumental shift - we change skins, we change community perceptions, we build new memories etc
[05:57:17] <MrBluze> we were only going to rush it if we had our domain name stolen
[05:57:37] <drcoolbp> still, it seems pertinent to do it sooner rather then later
[05:57:48] <drcoolbp> again, not "rushing" it
[05:58:19] <MrBluze> yes, because the longer we dont change, the mroe we are stuck with soylentnews
[05:58:26] <MrBluze> be that good or bad, i can't say
[05:58:41] <audioguy> We have an email for all registered users. Send them all a unique token. They vote ny email, and the token can no longer be used. Easy.
[05:59:02] <MrBluze> audioguy: good idea
[05:59:12] <MrBluze> or can the token take them to the dreamchoice or some voting box
[06:00:24] <audioguy> They hit reply on the email, after markimng one box (or whatever) and send it to an address. We grep all the emails (maildir format) t=for the token-vote line, kick out any dupes, and total. Could do it all will a short shell script.
[06:00:44] <MrBluze> ok
[06:00:50] <audioguy> Really without even a script.
[06:00:53] <MrBluze> numbering choices
[06:01:02] <drcoolbp> that might work for this vote, but not a long-term solution
[06:01:04] <MrBluze> yeah u can do that with a single grep command
[06:01:11] <MrBluze> well for this vote is all we need for now
[06:01:16] <drcoolbp> yes
[06:01:19] <audioguy> I do thatkind of stuff all the time trying to track dowmn email problems. ;-)
[06:01:27] <MrBluze> because everything changes once we work out our business model and so on
[06:01:32] <drussell> That's part of what I'm saying with this being a one-off... However we collect the vote data in the first place, if it's a secret ballot all the procesing only needs to be done once at the end, we just have to collect the data
[06:01:32] <drcoolbp> cool
[06:01:47] <MrBluze> yep
[06:01:52] -!- mode/#staff [+v MrBluze] by buttercake
[06:01:54] <drcoolbp> anyone have any qualms with this system?
[06:01:54] <MrBluze> audioguy to the rescue
[06:01:54] <prospectacle> audioguy++ and the long term solution would be the same thing, anyway, but in a form on the site, instead of in email.
[06:01:54] <baaaacon> karma - audioguy: 5
[06:02:17] -!- mode/#staff [+v drcoolbp] by buttercake
[06:02:23] <MrBluze> right, prospectacle
[06:02:23] -!- mode/#staff [+v drcoolbp] by buttercake
[06:02:29] <MrBluze> only things i might add:
[06:02:34] <MrBluze> two week voting period
[06:02:47] <MrBluze> and restrict new UID's after this has started
[06:03:02] <MrBluze> but that's easy .. they dont get the email (facepalm)
[06:03:15] <prospectacle> I humbly resubmit my journal php script to use in processing the email replies.
[06:03:26] <MrBluze> :)
[06:03:27] <prospectacle> But it only works for approval voting
[06:03:31] * drcoolbp checks his journal
[06:04:11] <drcoolbp> <FoobarBazbot> drcoolbp: I like it, though I recommend awk over sh or php (and would volunteer to write it)
[06:05:10] <MrBluze> for the name choice, i think preferential voting is the way to go
[06:05:35] <drcoolbp> please explain
[06:05:51] <MrBluze> you number boxes 1 to n, in order of preference, of the names
[06:05:58] <MrBluze> all boxes must have a number or the vote is invalidated
[06:06:11] <prospectacle> which counting system?
[06:06:21] <MrBluze> that depends
[06:06:35] <MrBluze> but u can do first past the post
[06:06:55] <MrBluze> but usually for this, need a majority of votes in a round
[06:07:00] <drussell> Yes, it should not be a simple majority wins either preference rank 1 to n or give each choice a -5 to +5 or whatever and then do some processing
[06:07:13] <MrBluze> yeah u can do that
[06:07:30] <MrBluze> well if there are 10 choices, and choice 2 gets > 50%, it wins
[06:07:35] <MrBluze> that is, >50% of 1's
[06:07:38] <prospectacle> points-per-preference tends to be less complicated than instant-run-off (the one where you eliminate candidates until a majority)
[06:07:40] <MrBluze> but that is rare
[06:08:06] <MrBluze> well as long as ppl knwo the rules of the gmae beforehand, it is fair
[06:08:08] * drcoolbp is logging the important bits of this convo for later review
[06:08:48] <drussell> I think it needs to be tallied something like http://en.wikipedia.org
[06:09:22] <MrBluze> http://en.wikipedia.org
[06:10:38] <MrBluze> in australia they take the votes of the least popular candidate, and allocate second preference of those votes to the existing candidates
[06:10:48] <mattie_p> ok, back and caught up
[06:10:52] <MrBluze> and they continue doing this until a majority is reached
[06:11:11] <MrBluze> in this way, every vote counts ,even people who vote for losers
[06:11:19] <drcoolbp> mattie_P I logged important bits, I can send you
[06:11:26] <mattie_p> I've got them
[06:11:41] * drcoolbp notes "damn he's good"
[06:11:50] <mattie_p> mainly discussion like this was why I chose not to hold the name vote today
[06:12:03] <MrBluze> fair enough, mattie_p
[06:12:15] <drcoolbp> yes, we scraped a few intelligent people from #Soylent
[06:12:27] <MrBluze> lol drcoolbp not a trivial task
[06:13:05] <audioguy> "If you want to vote in the name election, you must enable in your user settings the send me summaries option by xx/xx/xx. This gives your permission for us to send you a ballot. You can turn it off afterwards."
[06:13:36] <mattie_p> hang on for a second, please. Comment counts aren't updating again. Any dev online who can help?
[06:13:37] <MrBluze> yep
[06:13:46] <audioguy> So we are not spamming people.
[06:13:58] <drcoolbp> mechanicjay: you around?
[06:14:09] <MrBluze> audioguy: .. i dont think that for this particular occasion it would be considered spamming
[06:14:17] <drcoolbp> FatPhil: you around?
[06:14:17] <MrBluze> it's as big as announcing an AGM
[06:14:21] <mattie_p> audioguy, can you restart the services?
[06:14:33] <audioguy> maybe ;-)
[06:14:58] <mattie_p> were you online on tuesday when we had to restart everything? especially with martyb?
[06:15:29] <drcoolbp> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[06:15:38] <mattie_p> thanks, ben
[06:15:54] <MrBluze> ok i must head off now
[06:16:01] <mattie_p> later, MrBluze
[06:16:05] <MrBluze> see u mattie_p
[06:16:08] <MrBluze> see u all
[06:16:20] <MrBluze> got a meet n greet evening for the junior staff
[06:16:24] <drcoolbp> later Bluze
[06:16:27] <MrBluze> ciao
[06:16:35] <drcoolbp> audioguy: " It seems probably slashd died at the hands of the OOM killer"
[06:16:45] <audioguy> yes I just tried to restart slash, cannot vonnect to ssql server.
[06:17:05] <audioguy> so that is down as well, apparentlyly
[06:17:24] <drcoolbp> audioguy: PM?
[06:17:41] * MrBluze rolls his eyes
[06:17:42] <mattie_p> we can discuss here, unless talking passwords or such
[06:17:45] <MrBluze> .. good luck ppl lol
[06:17:52] <drcoolbp> mattie_p = )
[06:17:54] <MrBluze> see u soon
[06:18:13] <mattie_p> its not *that* secret, drcoolbp. We'd get comments soon enough somewhere
[06:18:49] <drcoolbp> audiougy: it's the comment counts
[06:19:03] * mattie_p nods
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[06:19:13] <prospectacle> MrBluze, not to knock my own country's system, but the Aus, instant-runoff method is very divisive becaue the second-third-etc preferences of the majority of losers (whose first preference doesn't get in), do not get counted.
[06:19:35] -!- FoobarBazbot_ [FoobarBazbot_!~FoobarBaz@66.249.jxj.hn] has joined #staff
[06:19:35] <drcoolbp> prospectacle: noted
[06:20:41] <drcoolbp> audtioguy: it's the comment counts not updating on the main page issue
[06:20:58] <prospectacle> Borda count is preferential and takes all preferences into account. http://en.wikipedia.org
[06:21:31] <drussell> prospectacle, That's part of the reason that, at least after a cursory look, something like the KemenyYoung looks like a good type of way, but I'm no voting expert :)
[06:22:10] -!- MrBluze has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[06:22:41] <prospectacle> drusseel: kemenyyoung looks good to me, though more complicated to count (but probably not much more complicated if it's automated)
[06:23:14] <drussell> Yes, Borda could be an option as well, there are several similar systems with various advantages and disadvantages in various scenarios
[06:23:53] <drussell> KemenyYoung should be easy enough as long as the number of candidates is reasonable
[06:23:58] <mattie_p> I'm sure there are several implementations already extant
[06:24:21] <drussell> I would think so...
[06:24:27] <prospectacle> Yes true
[06:25:07] <mattie_p> I really don't want to send NCommander on a monthlong quest to implement something we could just toss in with a couple of days work
[06:25:24] <drcoolbp> crap: 503 on main site
[06:25:57] <drcoolbp> guys i hope you don't mind, I'm going to devoice you
[06:26:00] <mattie_p> could be apache, now. that usually needs a kick when slashd restarts, IIRC
[06:26:24] <drcoolbp> .devoice prospectacle
[06:26:24] -!- mode/#staff [-v prospectacle] by buttercake
[06:26:33] <drcoolbp> .devoice drussell
[06:26:33] -!- mode/#staff [-v drussell] by buttercake
[06:27:41] <drcoolbp> <audioguy> the database is not running andf apache will not start.
[06:27:49] <drcoolbp> we are getting 503 on the main site
[06:27:51] -!- MrBluze [MrBluze!~Mista@Soylent/Staff/IRC/MrBluze] has joined #staff
[06:27:51] -!- mode/#staff [+v MrBluze] by buttercake
[06:28:00] <drcoolbp> yeah we know MrBluze
[06:28:04] <mattie_p> hey, wb, MrBluze
[06:28:31] <MrBluze> Tnx am on phone irc
[06:29:02] <mattie_p> just sent an email to staff mailling list
[06:29:15] <drcoolbp> I was about to do that
[06:29:20] <mattie_p> too late
[06:29:30] <mattie_p> I'm incident commander now, my responsibility anyway
[06:29:35] <drcoolbp> .deop
[06:29:35] -!- mode/#staff [-o drcoolbp] by buttercake
[06:29:50] <drcoolbp> what do you reccomend sir?
[06:30:03] <mattie_p> lets see what audioguy is able to accomplish
[06:30:09] <mattie_p> he's the technical lead right now
[06:30:19] <drcoolbp> okay
[06:30:40] <mattie_p> last time we set up a new channel, want to do the same here?
[06:31:07] <drcoolbp> I don't personally see a need for it
[06:31:27] <mattie_p> ok, we can stay here then
[06:31:35] <drcoolbp> it's clear the site is down, the public can see what we are doing here
[06:31:42] <drcoolbp> the community*
[06:31:49] <mattie_p> audioguy, what are you seeing in the server now?
[06:33:07] <mattie_p> I have paulej72's number, can get him if required for this
[06:33:13] <audioguy> OK, here is what is happening. I tried to start slash, but it spewd out errors sayong it could not connect to the database.
[06:33:25] <audioguy> The database does not in fact appear to be running.
[06:33:28] <drcoolbp> can we reboot the machine?
[06:33:40] <audioguy> I thinkit may be worth a try.
[06:33:47] <mattie_p> if we do, can we restart all services needed?
[06:33:48] <NCommander> hrm?
[06:33:56] <audioguy> I can see nop way to start mysql.
[06:33:56] <mattie_p> hey, NCommander
[06:34:01] <drcoolbp> NCommander: site is 503
[06:34:07] <drcoolbp> reccomendations?
[06:34:08] <NCommander> fuck
[06:34:11] <mattie_p> could you help us out with a little 503 error?
[06:34:22] <audioguy> OK passing the torch to ncommader - you need to restart things on the server
[06:34:23] <NCommander> let me get on the laptop
[06:34:29] <drcoolbp> thank you
[06:34:33] <mattie_p> yup
[06:34:38] <audioguy> Thank God.
[06:34:43] <mattie_p> perfect timing
[06:34:58] <drcoolbp> right?
[06:35:18] <audioguy> Saved by the bell.
[06:35:22] <mattie_p> don't thank God, thank NCommander. unless... God == NCommander?
[06:35:38] <audioguy> Right now, no difference. ;-)
[06:35:42] <drcoolbp> he does have "god" privs on main site....
[06:36:00] <MrBluze> The bacon is with him
[06:36:58] <drcoolbp> wiki is still up, it must just be the production server this time
[06:37:38] <audioguy> Yes, as far as I can tell, lost sql server. Which caused the other problems.
[06:37:49] <audioguy> Not dns this time.
[06:37:53] <mattie_p> makes sense
[06:38:49] <mattie_p> we need to keep a knowledge base of all these fixes we do
[06:39:20] <mattie_p> so that way when we see X, Y, and Z, it is A; but when we see X, Y, and !Z, it is B
[06:39:31] <drcoolbp> audioguy: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[06:39:42] <audioguy> The problem here is that NOTHING is written down. I have no idea how to start the db on that machine, things are in odd places.
[06:40:12] <audioguy> When things deviate from the norm, there need to be notes.
[06:40:19] <mattie_p> ergo, step 0, documentation (per my email)
[06:40:20] <MrBluze> Rc
[06:40:47] <audioguy> I do not see him logged in yet.
[06:40:58] <drcoolbp> he's switching computers
[06:42:46] <NCommander> Alright
[06:42:48] <NCommander> I'm online properly
[06:42:50] <NCommander> Taking a look
[06:43:08] <audioguy> Everything is down.
[06:43:22] <NCommander> Even SSH
[06:43:24] <NCommander> WTF
[06:43:37] <MrBluze> Hmm
[06:43:37] <mattie_p> restart the linode then
[06:43:41] <mattie_p> ?
[06:44:05] <mattie_p> services shouldn't break that easy, though
[06:44:12] <NCommander> Give me a sec, I'm looking
[06:44:14] <audioguy> I am in now, through ssh
[06:44:20] <NCommander> Linodes should auto-restart if they go down
[06:44:27] <audioguy> Can I just reboot?
[06:44:44] <audioguy> Will it come up proerly with a a reboot?
[06:44:57] <audioguy> properly
[06:45:15] <audioguy> I can be your hands, speak to me....
[06:45:17] <NCommander> Maybe
[06:45:19] <NCommander> Stand by
[06:45:22] <NCommander> I want to see why its broken
[06:45:23] <MrBluze> Want to take a log of running processes first
[06:45:30] <mattie_p> check the physical layer =)
[06:45:54] <mattie_p> sorry, not contributing
[06:46:20] <drcoolbp> yeah, I'm approaching useless and need sleep
[06:47:43] <mattie_p> ooh, called it
[06:48:16] <drcoolbp> lol
[06:48:44] <mattie_p> 23 minutes ago: <mattie_p> could be apache, now. that usually needs a kick when slashd restarts, IIRC
[06:49:01] * drcoolbp slow claps
[06:49:34] <audioguy> NC now logged in.
[06:50:19] <mattie_p> I keep a good reference in my head of these things
[06:52:23] -!- MrBluze has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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[06:52:44] -!- mode/#staff [+v MrBluze] by buttercake
[06:54:04] -!- MrBluze_ [MrBluze_!~Mista@pwk703-893-809-42.lns72.hba7.internode.on.net] has joined #staff
[06:55:18] <NCommander> FOr once, this wasn't slashs fault
[06:55:38] <audioguy> The database?
[06:55:43] <drcoolbp> yup
[06:55:47] <drcoolbp> SSL certs
[06:55:54] <drcoolbp> or something
[06:56:02] * drcoolbp tries to sound dev-y
[06:56:46] <NCommander> Yeah
[06:56:53] <NCommander> So because we have to cross the linode internal LAN
[06:56:57] <audioguy> That was the error message I saw.
[06:56:58] <NCommander> we run mysql in SSL mode
[06:57:01] <NCommander> The certificates expired
[06:57:03] <NCommander> Christ
[06:57:10] -!- MrBluze has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[06:57:15] <NCommander> This is special
[06:57:15] <audioguy> JESUS CHRIST. ;-)
[06:57:43] <drcoolbp> that doesn't sound awesome
[06:57:52] <audioguy> Un believable. Well, I sure am glad you came in. I never would have guessed that one.
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[07:00:15] -!- mode/#staff [+v MrBluze] by buttercake
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[07:02:36] <mattie_p> add this to the knowledge base
[07:03:05] <mattie_p> mysql requires SSL certificates.
[07:03:25] <audioguy> No, it doesn't. Just THIS one. ;-)
[07:03:38] <mattie_p> I'm talking in documentation terms for the site
[07:03:51] <mattie_p> you know, the email I sent out a few days ago?
[07:04:31] -!- MrBluze has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[07:04:45] <_MrBLuze> mattie_p: .. this one more falls along the lines of writing a maintenance schedule
[07:04:52] _MrBLuze is now known as MrBluze
[07:04:52] <audioguy> I document what I do, mattie. So does paul. SOME others seem to be in cowboy mode. I won;t mentiomn any names. ;-)
[07:05:09] <drcoolbp> audioguy: maybe here? http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[07:06:04] <drcoolbp> well:<+NCommander> Estimated 30-45 minutes to site restoration
[07:06:07] <drcoolbp> so I'm off to bed
[07:06:23] <mattie_p> alright
[07:06:25] <MrBluze> one annoying suggestion: can the default error message of varnish be made into something that looks like a website message?
[07:06:25] <audioguy> That is my work, yes. And here: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[07:06:30] <mattie_p> talk to you tomorrow
[07:06:34] <drcoolbp> goodnight audioguy, MrBluze, mattie_p, Ncommander
[07:07:09] <audioguy> Who has the con?
[07:07:11] <mattie_p> audioguy: those are decent notes
[07:07:20] <mattie_p> I still do, technically, but I need to pass it
[07:07:29] <mattie_p> NCommander is fixing
[07:07:43] <mattie_p> I need to go to bed as well
[07:07:56] <MrBluze> nite drcoolbp
[07:08:07] <drcoolbp> goodnight, I'll be free all day tomorrow
[07:08:08] <audioguy> You need an inflated title to have the con, where is yours? ;-)
[07:08:15] -!- drcoolbp has quit []
[07:08:30] <audioguy> I tried Commodore and mecollbp upstaged me with Admiral.
[07:08:46] <audioguy> mrcoolbp
[07:08:58] <mattie_p> I gave him a promotion the other day for services rendered
[07:09:03] <mattie_p> you could be an admiral too
[07:09:28] <audioguy> I could take it for a while but need to sleep soon as well.
[07:09:37] <mattie_p> I don't do the title thing because a) everyone knows I'm in charge if I'm .op; and b) it messes up my idlerpg
[07:09:44] <audioguy> But I want FleetAdmiral,.
[07:09:54] <mattie_p> You could be vice admiral
[07:10:04] <mattie_p> that sounds pretty nice
[07:10:16] <audioguy> I aim only for the top, buddy.
[07:10:22] <mattie_p> haha
[07:10:53] <mattie_p> anyway, what I was talking about earlier from my email was: Step 0) Document ALL of our current systems and dependencies. In other words, anything and everything that your group uses, needs, or has implemented, where it is stored/hosted, what versions, their dependencies, username and passwords, needs to be documented. Do Nothing Else Until You Have Done This (except emergency fixes).
[07:11:17] <mattie_p> if our implementation of mysql requires SSL and a cert, that needs to be part of the documentation
[07:11:35] <audioguy> The people who are a position to do that for this kind of problem have not dones so. They need to be flogged, and made to swab the decks.
[07:11:43] <mattie_p> aye aye
[07:11:49] <NCommander> .op
[07:11:49] -!- mode/#staff [+o NCommander] by buttercake
[07:11:57] NCommander changed topic of #staff to: NCommander (now the Database Commander)
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[07:12:04] <mattie_p> .deop
[07:12:04] -!- mode/#staff [-o mattie_p] by buttercake
[07:12:11] <NCommander> Ugh
[07:12:13] <NCommander> got DCed
[07:12:18] <NCommander> Really annoying I can't use SSH ATM
[07:12:27] <audioguy> Why not?
[07:13:22] <NCommander> I think port 22 is blocked from where I am
[07:13:24] * NCommander is using the Linode console directly
[07:13:36] <audioguy> Ugh.
[07:14:06] <audioguy> can you log into slashcott? could go from there - it ises an alternate port.
[07:14:10] <audioguy> uses
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[07:15:08] <NCommander> audioguy, maybe
[07:15:16] <NCommander> audioguy, which port is its SSH on?
[07:16:18] <audioguy> You could use my account on slashcott. port 3000
[07:17:01] <NCommander> FUck it
[07:17:09] <NCommander> zford's configuration is completely bonkers
[07:17:11] <NCommander> (at least in terms of files
[07:17:16] * NCommander redoes this from scratch
[07:17:30] <audioguy> This whole achine is a bit weird. ;-)
[07:18:18] <audioguy> Do We NEED ssl? We are not even running it for the site, right?
[07:20:00] <mattie_p> well, I'm off to bed. See everyone in about 6 hours or so
[07:20:09] * mattie_p salutes NCommander
[07:20:11] <NCommander> Damn it
[07:20:24] <audioguy> Sleep wel, and dream of...fixed computers. ;-)
[07:21:13] <NCommander> I think I got lish working properly over SSH
[07:21:16] <NCommander> I can talk to SSH over port 443
[07:21:56] <audioguy> All right, do it the hard way. ;-)
[07:25:14] <audioguy> You could have been in 10 minutes ago if you can get to port 3000.
[07:26:48] <NCommander> audioguy, I can't seem to establish SSH connections properl at all
[07:27:50] <audioguy> Did you try ssh -p 3000 usernam@slashcoot.org?
[07:27:51] <NCommander> Alright
[07:28:04] <NCommander> audioguy, what's the account info?
[07:28:07] * NCommander will try it again
[07:28:23] <audioguy> lets go to a priv msg, ok?
[07:28:35] <NCommander> audioguy, k
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[08:08:56] <NCommander> mattie_p, ping
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[08:42:24] audioguy is now known as audioguyzzz
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[08:57:30] CptBluze is now known as Bluze
[09:19:44] <NCommander> Ok, Fired an email to the list outlying thoughts and a partial plan on how to prevent this in the future
[09:29:49] <NCommander> mechanicjay, when you return, do you know if/when we can axe sn100dfw-svc
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[10:57:02] * FatPhil is now around
[11:46:52] <Bluze> Thanks
[11:47:11] <Bluze> U can be captain
[11:51:49] <FatPhil> ok
[11:52:50] <FatPhil> .op
[11:52:50] -!- mode/#staff [+o FatPhil] by buttercake
[11:54:14] <FatPhil> .topic when the shit hits the fan, Commander FatPhil will dodge it
[11:54:26] <FatPhil> !topic when the shit hits the fan, Commander FatPhil will dodge it
[11:54:37] <FatPhil> hmmm, how does the bot work
[11:54:56] FatPhil changed topic of #staff to: when the shit hits the fan, Commander FatPhil will dodge it
[11:55:03] <FatPhil> who needs bots
[11:55:12] * NCommander faints
[11:57:13] <FatPhil> No write-up on the outage yet?
[11:58:11] <FatPhil> then again, one wouldn't expect to see that issue again
[11:58:57] <NCommander> FatPhil, not yet. I dropped an email with my TODO list on how to fix shit more permamently in the future
[11:59:07] <NCommander> FatPhil, your comments on the staff manifesto hit home
[11:59:08] <FatPhil> Perhaps we need a calendar page for important dates - domain renewals, certificate renewals, paying the electricity bill, etc.
[11:59:19] <NCommander> FatPhil, oh good, something else we can put on services
[11:59:24] <NCommander> svc == random shit box
[12:04:19] <NCommander> FatPhil, did you see my email? (I'm not sure the list is sending properly, I'm not getting bouncebacks)
[12:14:00] <FatPhil> reading it now
[12:15:25] <FatPhil> just for reference, I've never encountered a sane human being who has anything good to say about gerrit.
[12:18:07] <FatPhil> A mailing list (per component) works fine. That's how linux has been working forever and a day, and nobody thinks that's a bad way of doing things.
[12:18:49] <NCommander> FatPhil, I despise having to suck patches off a mailing list.
[12:19:16] <NCommander> FatPhil, I generally have to leave mutt installed for doing that, and its frustating if I'm not working from my usual systems
[12:21:36] <NCommander> FatPhil, I haven't use gerrit a lot, but it didn't hugely suck when I was involved with cyanogenmod.
[12:25:53] <FatPhil> NCommander: when do you "have to suck patches off a mailing list"? I've never had to do that.
[12:26:22] <NCommander> FatPhil, generally because someone sends a patchset to a mailing list, and have to either save each email automatically, or do mutt magic
[12:26:30] <FatPhil> But why?
[12:26:38] <FatPhil> In order to achieve what?
[12:27:23] <FatPhil> Review on-list. If you're dealing with pull requests, then use real pull requests.
[12:30:00] <NCommander> FatPhil, yeah, some people like to abuse git send-patches.
[12:31:21] <NCommander> github has a decent pull reviewer dealing with diffs, and that's what I was using. I wrote about gerrit because you said you couldn't use github
[12:32:29] <FatPhil> If people have good branch behaviour (one branch per changeset, rebased onto master), then pull and merge are trivial operations.
[12:32:41] <FatPhil> there's no need for any tools apart fromn git itself.
[12:32:47] <FatPhil> I can't sign up for github
[12:33:12] <FatPhil> That doesn't seen to matter, as I can pull other people's repos just using the git command line
[12:33:30] <FatPhil> I can host my own repo for other people to pull from
[12:33:53] <NCommander> FatPhil, and I can count on one hand I frequently I see "good" git branches from people who don't frequently work with the kernel
[12:34:25] * NCommander has occassionally sliced off organs with git rebase and I work with TianoCore and the kernel regularly
[12:35:46] <NCommander> If you think we can get a crash course written so people can learn to automagically do the necessary rebasing and such, then I'll remove my objections
[12:36:00] <NCommander> But frequently, you get managed branches
[12:36:13] <NCommander> At least with send-patches, I don't need to worry about someone knowing how to use rebase
[12:36:14] <FatPhil> If rebasing fails, you're probably not doing it often enough.
[12:36:35] <FatPhil> I started a wiki page for common git tasks
[12:36:51] <FatPhil> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[12:37:01] <NCommander> Youve never made a typo that condem your changeset somewhere ugly and needed serious git foo to recover them?
[12:37:08] <NCommander> Or smashed changes together?
[12:37:19] * NCommander has learned to do git format-patches before ever touching git rebase
[12:38:33] <FatPhil> I don't consider myself a git guru at all, and I've managed to make everything that I show the outside world look as if I have a logical mind.
[12:38:49] <NCommander> Fair enough
[12:38:55] * NCommander notes Canonical uses bzr almost exclusively
[12:39:24] <NCommander> My RL git experience is limited mostly to vendors, vendor kernels, and TianoCore
[12:39:36] <FatPhil> vendor kernels = nightmare
[12:40:05] <NCommander> FatPhil, welcome to my life
[12:40:19] <NCommander> FatPhil, I was very happy to escape that in favor of working on UEFI
[12:40:39] <FatPhil> Ewe, I would guess that's even worse
[12:40:54] * NCommander once had to deal with a kernel that had been imported into perforce with no preversation of history :-)
[12:41:08] <NCommander> FatPhil, TBH, its not horrible
[12:41:21] <FatPhil> Vendors don't want to let you see how they work. It's always patchbombs.
[12:42:23] <NCommander> FatPhil, eh, actually, one vendor does use git and is not complete braindead
[12:42:25] <FatPhil> I wrote a haky perl script which would split a megapatch into the white-space only changes and the actual changes. That made life a lot easier as vendor loved combining the two. (hiding 4000 lines of real change in the middle of 200000 lines of reindenting)
[12:42:42] <NCommander> FatPhil, *wince*
[12:42:48] <NCommander> Yeah, I've dealt with that
[12:43:11] <NCommander> The problem is that getting people like the UI guys who aren't full time software development (i.e., we're lucky if they know svn) to not slice limbs off
[12:43:36] <NCommander> and while I *like* git, it is stupidly easy to take a limb or two off with it
[12:44:19] <FatPhil> I've used many rcs in the past. Git is the easiest and most logical. It's almost easy and almost logical, which contrasts it against most of the others.
[12:44:36] <NCommander> "easiest" is relative.
[12:45:07] <FatPhil> Well, you can grow back limbs with git reflog
[12:45:09] * NCommander has had disputes on migrating from git -> svn because of people having issues with git. I just had this conversation w/ a friend who I consider very talented wanting to use svn over git
[12:45:15] <NCommander> FatPhil, yes well :-P
[12:45:31] <NCommander> FatPhil, if you want to define our git best practices, I'll sign off on it.
[12:53:33] <FatPhil> It took me a very long time to actually like git (I won't tell you what I kept comparing it to, as you will laugh so hard you will probably injure an internal organ, or fall off your chair), but now I use it for *all* my own projects. Even simple things. The overhead is so low, and the benefits are measurable.
[12:54:33] <FatPhil> The wiki is kind of evolving in the direction of that. One problem is that I have no idea about the github side of things.
[12:55:41] <NCommander> FatPhil, what is your issue w/ github? I wish I knew about that in advance before we went there full time
[12:55:57] Bluze is now known as Mrbluze_zzz
[12:56:23] <Mrbluze_zzz> Just a thought
[12:57:14] <Mrbluze_zzz> Nvm dumb idea
[12:57:25] <Mrbluze_zzz> Gnite interesting convo
[12:59:15] <FatPhil> I simply cannot create an account. It looks like I don't need an account to just have read access to the repos, so it's presently not a biggie.
[13:00:39] <FatPhil> None of the browsers on my machine are supported. (Mostly because they don't have javascript, and github demands javascript)
[13:00:51] <FatPhil> <--- luddite
[13:12:29] <NCommander> FatPhil, TBH, that's fair
[13:12:42] <NCommander> FatPhil, if you just post pull requests, we can accomidate that if we can get a sane workflow hammered out
[13:13:00] <NCommander> FatPhil, we were hosted on independent infrastructure for awhile, but no one really liked fusionforge, and most people liked github so ....
[13:14:59] <FatPhil> AH, actually there is a problem with me not having a github account - I can't see the bug-tracker
[13:17:41] <NCommander> Fuck
[13:17:44] <NCommander> That should be world-readable
[13:17:48] <NCommander> Let me see if I can fix that
[13:18:27] <FatPhil> Last link I saw I was unable to follow, IIRC
[13:19:00] <NCommander> appears not
[13:19:01] <NCommander> Crap
[13:19:06] * NCommander facepalms
[13:19:17] <NCommander> FatPhil, I think this falls into the "poor communication kills" stuff
[13:29:54] <mechanicjay> NCommander: I'll try and check the old services box later today. When I looked at the mail and webserver logs two days ago there were still some clients hitting it from stale DNS entries.
[13:35:39] <NCommander> mechanicjay, thanks. Can you make me an account on svc?
[13:36:11] <NCommander> mechanicjay, and then when we're both on normal schedules, lets duct tape our heads together and see if we can get an idea on how best to do single-sign on
[13:42:25] <mattie_p> hey folks, I'm back
[13:43:16] <mattie_p> coffee is brewing, I'll be ready to face the day soon
[13:43:51] <FatPhil> I'm just reading a page at www.Schneier.com. His favicon.ico is very very very similar to soylentnews'
[13:45:46] <mattie_p> oh, saw and email, Khyber
[13:45:52] <mattie_p> re: khyber
[13:46:12] <mattie_p> he was drunk and spouting off, so we quieted him
[13:47:03] <mattie_p> then he started making threats about attacking the site with a DOS/DDOS, at which point xlefay kickbanned him
[13:47:12] <mattie_p> He is not banned from soylentnews, merely IRC
[13:51:09] -!- paulej72 [paulej72!~paulej72@Soylent/Staff/Developer/paulej72] has joined #staff
[13:51:09] -!- mode/#staff [+v paulej72] by buttercake
[13:51:47] <mattie_p> hey, paulej72, what's up?
[13:52:07] <paulej72> Cold is kicking my ass bad
[13:53:19] <paulej72> LaminatorX story broke the site too. He needs to put some breaks in his pi approximation
[13:56:40] <mattie_p> css should force a break in there somewhere, shouldn't it?
[13:57:26] * NCommander works on his "for fun" project
[13:57:38] <paulej72> That would require updating the code and the best I could do is hide the overflow
[13:57:50] <FatPhil> not CSS, there's perl that inserts breaks (if it's what I'm thinking of)
[13:57:56] <mattie_p> well, its already logged I'm sure
[13:58:08] <mattie_p> NCommander you see my update regarding Khyber?
[13:58:13] <NCommander> mattie_p, no
[13:58:19] <mattie_p> scroll up
[13:58:28] <mattie_p> like ... 10 lines
[13:58:48] <NCommander> mattie_p, I'm loosing backscroll when the connection is flakely. I don't have 10 lines of backscroll
[13:59:04] <mattie_p> ahh,
[13:59:11] <mattie_p> <mattie_p> he was drunk and spouting off, so we quieted him
[13:59:17] <mattie_p> then he started making threats about attacking the site with a DOS/DDOS, at which point xlefay kickbanned him
[13:59:23] <mattie_p> He is not banned from soylentnews, merely IRC
[13:59:35] <NCommander> mattie_p, yeah, I got a nasty gram about that on email
[13:59:42] <mattie_p> I saw that.
[14:00:11] <mattie_p> xlefay has the logs, NCommander. I warned him twice to calm down before we even quieted him
[14:01:48] <NCommander> mattie_p, I think we need to formalize rules on when we ban, etc.
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[14:02:44] -!- mode/#staff [+v LaminatorX] by buttercake
[14:03:42] <paulej72> LaminatorX: Your pi story is breaking the site neen
[14:03:42] <mattie_p> let me find logs. xlefay is a pretty experienced op, I'm inclined to trust his judgement there. But you are right.
[14:04:10] <LaminatorX> Lovely, isn't it.
[14:04:45] <LaminatorX> I like how it counts that number as a single word for wc purposes.
[14:04:50] <NCommander> LaminatorX, NICE
[14:04:56] * NCommander gives LaminatorX the "I broke slash" gold star
[14:05:06] * LaminatorX bows.
[14:05:09] <paulej72> Can you put some line breaks in that pi approximation
[14:05:50] <mattie_p> oh, woldn
[14:05:58] -!- paulej72 has quit [Quit: paulej72]
[14:06:00] <mattie_p> wouldn't that make a good achievement to give out
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[14:06:04] -!- mode/#staff [+v paulej72] by buttercake
[14:06:28] <LaminatorX> I suppose I could. It would take quite a few to not stretch the screen though. That's thousands of digits.
[14:09:17] <FatPhil> shrink the font on each subsequent line...
[14:09:56] <paulej72> LaminatorX that is only ten breaks or so
[14:24:45] <FatPhil> standard comment splitting is 50 chars, for reference
[14:24:46] <FatPhil> Slash/Utility/Data/Data.pm:The maximum length of a word. Default is 50 (breakhtml_wordlength in vars).
[14:24:49] <FatPhil> Slash/Utility/Data/Data.pm: $mwl = $mwl || $constants->{breakhtml_wordlength} || 50;
[14:26:46] <mattie_p> wonder why it didn't line break it, then?
[14:28:03] <LaminatorX> That's 48.5KB of pi. It woult take a lot more than ten kinw breaks to bust that into 50coumn.
[14:28:39] <LaminatorX> Some line break rules I've seen won't split mid word.
[14:31:31] <FatPhil> presumable only comments are processed not the stories themselves. IT was an anti-vandalism thing, so I guess they presume editors don't vandalise
[14:32:19] <mattie_p> well, that is obviously a stupid presumption. Us editors have done far more harm then the commenters.
[14:34:02] <LaminatorX> I gues Slashdot_Page_Widener_Guy never had any stories accepted.
[14:35:20] <FatPhil> "what could possibly go wrong"
[14:44:12] <paulej72> FatPhil unfortuantly that code only runs on comments and not on story submissions
[14:45:58] <paulej72> FatPhil a follow up question on git commits. If I have multiple files that I am updating, but they all have interdependent code changes and one files should not merge without the others, what is the best method on commiting these files.
[14:47:58] -!- drcoolbp [drcoolbp!~mrcoolbp@Soylent/Staff/mrcoolbp] has joined #staff
[14:47:58] -!- mode/#staff [+v drcoolbp] by buttercake
[14:49:24] <mechanicjay> bah
[14:50:07] <drcoolbp> humbug?
[14:50:08] <mechanicjay> NCommander: when the old linode box was migrated over, httpd didn't come back up, so I don't know who might still be getting at wiki.soylentnews.org through that machine.
[14:50:11] <FatPhil> paulej72: if they all interdepend, then they are one change - one commit
[14:50:40] <mechanicjay> postfix is seeing like one or two bogus incomming connections/day for the last 3 days though, so I think it's safe to say no one is talking to that node for mail anymore.
[14:51:00] <mechanicjay> I just restarted httpd and will watch the logs. If we don't any traffic by the end of the day, lets just kill the box.
[14:51:21] <paulej72> FatPhil thanks, I have been trying to do that, but sometimes forget that a file should be there.
[14:51:49] <NCommander> mechanicjay, honestly, I'm not sure I care that much. The DNS crisis shows up not a lot is respecting the TTL ...
[14:52:12] * NCommander notes that while the gopher portal is somewhat of a joke, we *will* get full WAP functionality out this which is awesome
[14:52:19] <mechanicjay> NCommander: yeah seems to be -- since it's been off the air for two days now anyway -- f it just kill it.
[14:52:28] <NCommander> mechanicjay, sweet. more refund money
[14:52:42] * mechanicjay would rock the gopher interface from my VMS box.
[14:53:30] <mechanicjay> NCommander: also, just sent you an email re: the services box
[14:53:48] <drcoolbp> mechanicjay, still getting errors on the email forwarding settings page
[14:54:33] <mechanicjay> drcoolbp: even with fresh browser / incognito chrome window?
[14:55:01] <paulej72> I aslo sent an email to the list about the svc box.
[14:55:24] * NCommander swears repeatively
[14:55:46] <mechanicjay> drcoolbp: regardless, I'm still going to try to rev the plugin when I get a chance.
[14:56:01] <drcoolbp> I restarted the browser
[14:56:14] <drcoolbp> let me try an incognito to just for s/g
[14:56:15] * paulej72 hopes that NCommander is not swearing at him
[14:56:50] <paulej72> :)
[14:57:00] <FatPhil> I haven't heard the word "awesome" used in the context of WAP for about a decade!
[14:57:31] <drcoolbp> mechanicjay now I'm having errors on the change password page too
[14:57:37] <paulej72> can someone fill me in what is a WAP?
[14:57:46] <NCommander> paulej72, microbrowsers on phone
[14:57:46] <drcoolbp> Wide area protocol
[14:57:52] <NCommander> Think HTML stripped down to very bare basics
[14:57:59] <FatPhil> I've got shopping/cooking duties chez nous, so need to take off my captains hat
[14:58:04] <drcoolbp> only text from what I remember
[14:58:12] <FatPhil> it had images too
[14:58:20] <NCommander> http://en.wikipedia.org
[14:58:21] <drcoolbp> oh
[14:58:24] <NCommander> FatPhil, indeed
[14:58:25] <drcoolbp> ah
[14:58:32] <drcoolbp> I stand corrected twice
[14:58:36] <NCommander> Basically, if you have GPRS, you can still use SoylentNews :-)
[14:58:41] * NCommander is a strong believer of Web 0.1
[14:58:56] <mechanicjay> drcoolbp: lame. Definitely a blocker for opening it up to all staff -- also there are some changes needed to the box to support mailboxes for all (like a separate mail volume and some quota management.
[14:59:17] <mechanicjay> alright, gotta drop off, I'll check in later.
[14:59:18] <drcoolbp> let me dig around more and see what else Ican break
[14:59:26] <drcoolbp> I'll let you know.
[14:59:29] <FatPhil> NCommander: Am I Web 0.1-enough for you? http://fatphil.org
[14:59:32] <mechanicjay> drcoolbp: k, thanks.
[14:59:33] <drcoolbp> talk to you later
[14:59:37] <drcoolbp> no prob
[14:59:41] mechanicjay is now known as mechanicjay|afk
[14:59:56] <paulej72> mechanicjay we don't need quota management we promise not to use all of the dis storing our porn :)
[15:01:09] <drcoolbp> paulej72: I got a weird email bounce on the admin@ mail last night
[15:01:25] <drcoolbp> looks like it's on their end...
[15:01:29] <paulej72> what was it drcoolbp
[15:01:57] <drcoolbp> it's weird because it said <rack@REDACTED.fm> (expanded from <root@REDACTED.fm>): unknown user: "rack"
[15:02:34] <drcoolbp> I think it's on the user's end, but I can forward if you like
[15:02:41] <FatPhil> in search of replacement commander...
[15:03:21] <NCommander> .op NCommander
[15:03:21] -!- mode/#staff [+o NCommander] by buttercake
[15:03:24] NCommander changed topic of #staff to: NCommander has the helm
[15:03:31] <NCommander> FatPhil, you stand relieved
[15:03:37] <drcoolbp> nice
[15:03:43] <drcoolbp> CommanderNCommander
[15:03:44] <NCommander> This works quite nicely
[15:03:55] <NCommander> We always have a vanguard to handle shit when it hits the fan
[15:03:58] <FatPhil> .deop
[15:03:58] -!- mode/#staff [-o FatPhil] by buttercake
[15:04:17] <drcoolbp> NCommander, I was chatting with a fire chief yesterday re: ICS
[15:04:24] <drcoolbp> I need to read more of that course
[15:04:44] <NCommander> drcoolbp, curious what he had to say about us using it
[15:05:11] <paulej72> drcoolbp i think that may have something to do with not having the proper svr records for the mail server some peopple have their mails servers set to block this. This message is void if we actually got or svr records all setup in DNS properly.
[15:05:29] <drcoolbp> He didn't comment too much on that aspect, but her was curious, I was mostly probing him about how it worked on various larger incidents
[15:05:49] <drcoolbp> paulej72: SVR = ?
[15:05:52] <drcoolbp> server?
[15:06:18] <paulej72> drcoolbp http://en.wikipedia.org
[15:06:24] <drcoolbp> thx
[15:06:29] <drcoolbp> we get a lot of those bounced emails, mostly from that damn newsletter....
[15:06:39] <drcoolbp> where do we stand on that? Is it opt-in yet?
[15:06:53] <paulej72> I think there is a open issue on this in the issue tracker
[15:07:11] <drcoolbp> yes
[15:07:24] <drcoolbp> We've had some angry users
[15:07:39] <drcoolbp> John was handling them when he was aboard
[15:08:18] <xlefay> Is it an idea to make a fax of sorts?
[15:08:56] <paulej72> drcoolbp the newsletter is still optout, but there is a link at the bottom of the email to show where to set the preferences.
[15:09:20] <drcoolbp> fair enough...
[15:10:14] <paulej72> drcoolbp that feature was added on the 16th of feb or there abouts
[15:10:27] <drcoolbp> okay, good to know
[15:10:50] <xlefay> drcoolbp: how much emails on admin@ on a daily basis?
[15:11:09] <drcoolbp> you mean minus the bounced newsletter ones? = )
[15:11:21] <drcoolbp> ~ 1-3
[15:11:34] <xlefay> and on other e-mail addresses? e.g. volunteers@, etc?
[15:11:47] -!- SoyCow5656 [SoyCow5656!~d05b7b22@208.91.vnl.zo] has joined #staff
[15:11:52] <drcoolbp> volunteer we axed
[15:12:02] <xlefay> Ok
[15:12:05] <drcoolbp> suggestions has been even lower than that
[15:12:21] <mattie_p> hey, welcome back xlefay
[15:12:22] <drcoolbp> but there were some decent ones
[15:12:45] <xlefay> Thanks, that's what I needed to know. ;)
[15:12:53] <mattie_p> xlefay, do you have Khyber's pm threats available?
[15:12:57] <xlefay> mattie_p: thanks :)
[15:15:38] <xlefay> I can share some excerpts really, but I don't see why we even continue to pay attention to him. He's a hothead and fairly sure his behavior speaks for himself. I had hoped we had redmine or something like that by now so we can list bans and stuff on their in a private section... but I guess I'll make a bot that'll feed it to a DB and build a small web frontend so we can actually search for crap and shit
[15:15:50] <xlefay> s/their/there/
[15:16:32] <mattie_p> he's stirring up nonsense in the comments. I responded but I'm going to let it be for a while. If more comments start stirring just want to make sure we have what he did available
[15:16:52] <drcoolbp> xlefay: regarding redmine: it's ruby-on-rails, do we have any ruby devs on staff?
[15:17:47] <xlefay> mattie_p: fairly sure he also threatened a few days ago in #soylent least I got a PM from someone saying they hoped my server would stay out of it. but yeah it's available
[15:18:00] <mattie_p> works for me
[15:18:25] <xlefay> drcoolbp: we don't need something like RoR perse but.. something that can help other groups have a bugtracker and other crap internally.
[15:18:34] <xlefay> Writing up an e-mail about the email piping idea now
[15:19:19] <drcoolbp> xlefay: audioguy has been looking into using slash for staff communication, other than the mailing list we have no other suggestions for this I'm aware of
[15:20:05] <drcoolbp> (and redmine)
[15:20:05] <xlefay> The only down side of that is that we can't effectively use that for bug tracking, sharing files, etc..
[15:20:32] <drcoolbp> that is true...
[15:21:14] <xlefay> To be honest, I would have prefered to see something like 'phabricator' (mind the LIKE) but I guess that won't work for everyone since those things are generally JS heavy.
[15:21:41] <xlefay> (although phabricator for instance comes with a CLI interface)
[15:22:18] <xlefay> I suggested that earlier but zford rejected it because it was an "all in one package" which is understandable and I agree to a certain extend but it is one common place for all the stuff
[15:22:29] <drcoolbp> xlefay: what is the downside to having bugs on github and communication on slash? (we can link to git "issues"
[15:23:10] <xlefay> There's no downside perse, if that's all you need.. but IRC for instance, we don't have a need for github at this point nor will editors (besides "slashcode" itself)
[15:23:11] <drcoolbp> (also note: we just migrated all bugs to github)
[15:24:09] <drcoolbp> xlefay: I'd really like to investigate this staff communication thing as much as possible, it seems a lot of us are leaning towards using slash, but there are downsides to that for sure
[15:24:10] <xlefay> It's really about being able to share files and such. A staff slash instance seems a bit limited to just that and isn't really intended for that usage.
[15:24:11] <mattie_p> xlefay, looks like our community is handling it themselves, after my post. I'm going to stay out of it. http://soylentnews.org
[15:26:52] <xlefay> mattie_p: I'm done with that matter really. The ban was justified; the threats, the constant poisoning of the atmosphere, etc.. I can't really care at this point, to be honest the ban was supposed to be temporarily till he cooled down but since he's just spreading FUD now I don't see a reason to remove it now. It'll only send the wrong message e.g. "everyone that gets banned, spread fud and you'll get unbanned" which isn't what we want.
[15:28:03] <paulej72> just to chime in, audiogy has hit a dead end in getting slash to be logged in users only. The main slash perl module may be able to be reworked to allow this, but doing on th front end pages does not seem to work.
[15:28:03] <xlefay> I'm still writing an elaborate proposal regarding rules on IRC, methods of banning, etc.. hopefully I'll be done with that in a couple of days to send for review to the mailing list. I'll have you preview it before that time if you like?
[15:29:09] <drcoolbp> mattie_p ^^
[15:29:16] <drcoolbp> paulej72: hmmm
[15:29:45] <drcoolbp> paulej72: the mailing list is working for now, do you have any ideas for another communication method?
[15:30:08] <drcoolbp> i.e. are we happy with this as a short-to-medium-term solution?
[15:30:54] <paulej72> hate to say it but the forums sound like a viable solution.
[15:30:58] <xlefay> drcoolbp: personally, I wouldn't be. It's just more maintenance when we move to something else. e.g. moving bugs, etc.. It's just not worth the time and effort. I'd rather wait yet another week for a real solution.
[15:31:08] <NCommander> That was an epic timing for a power outage
[15:31:18] <drcoolbp> it always is
[15:31:24] <xlefay> paulej72: only if teams aren't kickstarting their own projects.. in which something like redmine would be more useful
[15:31:32] * NCommander lost power 30 seconds after declaring himself commander
[15:31:32] <paulej72> NCommander at least nothing happened here
[15:32:03] * NCommander volunteers to move the bugs as I already had paulej72 do it once
[15:32:04] <NCommander> !todo
[15:32:04] <baaaacon> todo for ncommander: 1) make sure install-slashsite installs proper schema 2) port slash to mod_perl 2 3) confirm w/ paulej72 that we are good to TRANSFORM AND ROLLOUT 4) rename Janek Kozicki to cosurgi 5) quit smoking 6) look at rewiring pollbooth for SERIOUS votes 7) rename stderr_dk -> stderr
[15:32:23] <NCommander> Anyone decent at ASCII art?
[15:32:31] <paulej72> xlefay I need to look at redmine to see what it is, never heard of it before you mentioning it
[15:32:34] <mattie_p> xlefay that would be good
[15:32:36] <xlefay> NCommander: Ask kobach, seriously.
[15:32:55] <mattie_p> sorry, was taking out trash and recycling before the truck gets here.
[15:32:57] <drcoolbp> paulej72: http://www.redmine.com
[15:32:58] <xlefay> He even has a bacon ascii art... you don't want to see it really, it just leads to being hungry.
[15:33:00] <NCommander> xlefay, actually, I'm just going to rip off the soylentnews logo
[15:33:02] <drcoolbp> oops!'
[15:33:05] <NCommander> from the MOTD
[15:33:15] <drcoolbp> paulej72: http://www.redmine.org
[15:33:17] <xlefay> NCommander: hehe, made it via network-ascii btw
[15:33:19] <drcoolbp> not the other one sorry
[15:33:54] <drcoolbp> freaking autocomplete...
[15:34:25] <NCommander> I need to reboot it
[15:34:26] <NCommander> er
[15:34:28] <NCommander> reboot me
[15:34:38] <paulej72> Does redmine require javascript?
[15:35:42] <paulej72> we have some people here that greatly dislike JS and refuse to run code from some sites. They refuse to use GitHub for that reason.
[15:36:06] <xlefay> I'm fairly sure it has some JS.. but honestly, a little bit can't hurt
[15:37:30] <mattie_p> honestly, some people are so freaking scared of JS. they have a phobia of it or something
[15:37:41] <paulej72> I am on the issues tab on redmine right now and I do not see a new button. Can't submit and issue on that :)
[15:38:11] <xlefay> paulej72: you probably have to be signed in. So whatever we're looking for, we might want to hold off till we've got some integration with the main site, or ldap or whatever?
[15:38:11] <NCommander> Ok
[15:38:13] <drcoolbp> this is the online demo: http://demo.redmine.org
[15:38:13] * NCommander is back properly
[15:38:25] <paulej72> mattie_p some people have a ligitimate secrity issue with running third party JS
[15:38:30] <NCommander> xlefay, if it can authorize against openid, that's the easy route
[15:39:06] <xlefay> NCommander: fairly sure redmine can.. but I just want to re-note to everyone... I'm not saying redmine perse, it's just something that first came to mind, we should look into other options too ;-)
[15:39:19] * xlefay notes redmine has been around for ages
[15:39:25] <drcoolbp> a few people mentioned it
[15:39:32] <drcoolbp> It's worth at least looking into
[15:39:41] <xlefay> yea
[15:39:42] <mattie_p> paulej72 I mean that's their call and everything, but they're going to miss out on stuff and its their own fault.
[15:41:00] <paulej72> If we are looking at different systems, we should at least look at the need for JS as a selection criteria.
[15:41:21] <xlefay> paulej72: in all honesty, we can even strip out JS at some places if we really need to.
[15:42:18] <paulej72> I am not saying it doesn't need to be no JS, but it would be nice if it was funcional without it.
[15:42:29] <xlefay> I agree with that
[15:43:09] <paulej72> xlefay what is you opinion that redline has 4239 open issues at the moment?
[15:43:31] <xlefay> paulej72: do you have a link?
[15:43:43] <paulej72> http://www.redmine.org
[15:44:13] <drcoolbp> hahaha
[15:44:16] <paulej72> 1145 of them are defects : http://www.redmine.org
[15:44:49] <xlefay> Does seem like a lot eh. Redmine's been around for a long time it's to be expected they got a lot of issues; but how much of them are valid and how much depend on server config, etc?
[15:45:03] <mattie_p> back in a few
[15:45:33] <paulej72> http://en.wikipedia.org
[15:45:42] <xlefay> paulej72: honestly, I'm not that scared of those issues, least they are known and reported ;)
[15:46:40] <paulej72> I have used trac in the past for a project that I submitted bugs to. Can't comment much about it.
[15:46:59] <xlefay> https://bh-demo2.apache.org seems new but bnice
[15:47:23] <xlefay> but prolly filled with js
[15:47:43] <xlefay> trac is pretty nice too. ;-)
[15:47:49] <drcoolbp> xlefay: are you talking about issue tracking specifically? or a combination of staff communication AND the former? Should they be separate? Linked? Discuss:
[15:48:36] <xlefay> drcoolbp: I'm mostly talking about the ability for teams to track issues, do internal communication, kickstart new projects (and allowing the community to be involved directly), etc..
[15:49:01] <xlefay> Like a central place for a team's stuff, where people will know where everything is, without ten or twenty different systems on which stuff can be housed
[15:49:14] <paulej72> some of these system can do it all
[15:49:31] <paulej72> some are more issues only.
[15:49:35] <xlefay> Which would be ideal I think.
[15:49:58] <drcoolbp> BRB: breakfast
[15:50:06] drcoolbp is now known as drcoolbp|breakfast
[15:51:14] <paulej72> trac I think can do the whole lot as it has a blog plugin, and a forum plugin
[15:51:23] <paulej72> pastebin plugin
[15:52:04] <paulej72> does git as well
[15:52:12] <xlefay> yea
[15:52:46] <drcoolbp|breakfast> public/private areas?
[15:55:47] <xlefay> Just send an email regarding mail piping and such
[15:55:56] <paulej72> drcoolbp|breakfast http://trac.edgewall.org
[15:56:05] * xlefay hopes it makes somewhat sense... I really suck at explaining things.
[15:57:35] <drcoolbp|breakfast> "mail piping?"
[15:58:04] <xlefay> drcoolbp|breakfast: it means that incoming emails are send to a program instead of a mailbox
[15:58:18] <xlefay> e.g. "piping email into something else" e.g. a program, or /dev/null, etc.
[15:58:23] <drcoolbp|breakfast> k
[15:58:45] <xlefay> (that's regarding incoming team emails, e.g. admin@, team+volunteers@etc...) read the mail ;)
[15:58:47] <xlefay> hope it makes sense.
[15:58:49] <drcoolbp|breakfast> I'd like to get that setup for the suggestions email (post directly to wiki somehow) way down the line
[15:59:27] <xlefay> drcoolbp|breakfast: that's a sure way to get people banned on the wiki a way to spam anyway
[16:00:00] <NCommander> Huh
[16:00:00] <NCommander> hrm
[16:00:35] <LaminatorX> We do a lot of mail piping here at the office, for automating dub requests between broadcasters.
[16:01:58] -!- SoyCow5656 has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[16:03:00] <xlefay> it'd be extremely useful with volunteers, etc..
[16:05:01] drcoolbp|breakfast is now known as drcoolbp
[16:05:14] <drcoolbp> trac is looking pretty cool, downsides?
[16:05:33] <xlefay> There are always downsides really, think the wiki page describes them fairly.
[16:06:03] * drcoolbp is stil reading
[16:06:46] <paulej72> I would tend to go with a solution that someone on staff has used and installed over differnt system if they have similar capabilities.
[16:07:54] <xlefay> fairly sure one of us has at least used trac and another has used redmine, they're both used heavily over the webs... think we should take different things into consideration. Which one is more maintained? Which one has the best trackrecord, etc.
[16:08:46] <paulej72> trac-record :)
[16:08:58] <xlefay> haha, xactly! :)
[16:09:03] <drcoolbp> heh
[16:09:10] <xlefay> exactly* heh
[16:11:50] * drcoolbp just joined #trac on freenode
[16:13:50] <paulej72> both redmine and trac can do openID, but it is optional on trac
[16:16:23] -!- SoyCow5656 [SoyCow5656!~d05b7b22@208.91.vnl.zo] has joined #staff
[16:17:37] <paulej72> http://stackoverflow.com
[16:18:32] <paulej72> http://trac.edgewall.org Redmine is a Trac clone.
[16:18:44] <paulej72> http://stackoverflow.com
[16:18:50] <xlefay> Youtrack = awesome but JS HEAVY,, with HEAVY I do mean HEAVY
[16:19:14] <FatPhil> my god, bloodhound looks utterly awful
[16:19:20] <paulej72> Not going to be popular with our crowd then
[16:19:37] <xlefay> paulej72: besides youtrack is mostly scrum so not gonna be popular either way
[16:19:47] <paulej72> FatPhil Blookhound seems to be an issue tracker only not a project management system
[16:19:57] <xlefay> FatPhil: changing the theme would be extremely easy I'd say byt what paulej72 said ^
[16:21:03] <xlefay> (.. and youtrack is java)
[16:21:35] <FatPhil> you're scaring me
[16:22:00] <paulej72> java and JS run away!
[16:22:08] <xlefay> Sorry! I know ;]
[16:23:11] <mattie_p> speading that Java and JS FUD here, what were you thinking?
[16:23:31] <xlefay> You're so right. I apologize to everyone here!
[16:27:16] <drcoolbp> thank you
[16:27:27] <drcoolbp> we will consider that xlefay in your trial
[16:27:38] <NCommander> everytime I touch perl I want to punch crap
[16:27:38] <paulej72> https://groups.google.com!topic/trac-dev/KIt0PRQzroc
[16:27:48] <paulej72> join the club NCommander
[16:28:14] <paulej72> perl_fight_club++
[16:28:15] <baaaacon> karma - perl_fight_club: 1
[16:28:23] <xlefay> drcoolbp: oh god. When is it scheduled?
[16:28:43] <drcoolbp> 4958 years from now (US system)
[16:28:51] <drcoolbp> so you should be okay
[16:29:10] <xlefay> drcoolbp: ooh then I don't have to worry, obviously, in 4958 years I'll be convicted and scheduled for execution.
[16:29:26] <drcoolbp> naturally
[16:29:27] <xlefay> (which will take another few hundred years to be implemented, naturally)
[16:30:39] <NCommander> root@slashdev:/var/gopher# ./topics
[16:30:48] <NCommander> Slashdot
[16:30:48] <NCommander> News
[16:30:48] <NCommander> Slash
[16:30:48] <NCommander> Main Page
[16:30:48] <NCommander> w00t
[16:32:06] <xlefay> neat!
[16:32:08] <xlefay> wait
[16:32:10] <xlefay> slashdot?
[16:32:16] <FatPhil> you're not playing around as root, are you? tut-tut-tut...
[16:34:18] <NCommander> FatPhil, its a VM :-P
[16:34:18] <NCommander> xlefay, and that's what gets installed by install-slashsite
[16:34:45] <xlefay> aah I see ;)
[16:51:12] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~janrinok@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok] has joined #staff
[16:51:12] -!- mode/#staff [+v janrinok] by buttercake
[16:51:16] <janrinok> hi guys
[16:51:22] <mattie_p> hi, janrinok
[16:51:29] <xlefay> Good afternoon. ;)
[16:51:35] <janrinok> hi mattie_p - how are you and the family?
[16:51:41] <janrinok> xlefay: hi
[16:51:48] <mattie_p> doing ok, how about you?
[16:52:01] <janrinok> Yeah, not bad thx
[16:52:05] <mattie_p> having pizza tonight in honor of pi day / friday
[16:52:17] <janrinok> Had my pizza last night!
[16:52:48] <paulej72> bacon_pizza++
[16:52:48] <baaaacon> karma - bacon_pizza: 1
[16:53:01] <janrinok> I gather from NCommander's piece that I missed an outage.
[16:53:07] <janrinok> paulej72: hi
[16:53:28] <mattie_p> yeah, about 10 hours ago
[16:53:29] <NCommander> yup
[16:53:37] <xlefay> which piece? I must have missed that
[16:53:49] <janrinok> hi NCommander - I never like to IRC too loudly in case I wake you...
[16:54:00] <mattie_p> http://soylentnews.org
[16:54:15] <xlefay> NCommander: I'm writing up another proposal regarding cloudflare, do you have any thoughts about something like that, e.g. insights?
[16:54:21] <mattie_p> must have been Khyber's DDOS that overflowed the SSL buffer, causing it to expire early or something.
[16:54:32] <NCommander> Mar 14 10:35:40 slashdev pygopherd[1680]: 127.0.0.1 [GopherProtocol/None] EXCEPTION AttributeError'>: ExecHandler instance has no attribute 'selectorags'
[16:54:33] <NCommander> Mar 14 10:53:58 slashdev pygopherd[1688]: 127.0.0.1 [GopherProtocol/ExecHandler]: /test2?test=test
[16:54:33] <NCommander> Yay, more brokage
[16:54:33] <NCommander> *breakage
[16:54:44] <xlefay> auch
[16:55:06] <janrinok> I like that word - 'brokage'
[16:55:27] <janrinok> that's a very cromulent word
[16:57:09] <NCommander> oooh
[16:57:12] <NCommander> Awesome typo is awesome
[16:57:12] <NCommander> args.extend(self.selectorags.split(' '))
[16:57:32] <xlefay> ags?
[16:58:32] <NCommander> xlefay, yeah
[16:58:41] * NCommander will file a bug against Ubuntu, then upload a fix and dist-upgrade it down
[16:58:52] <xlefay> Must be really handy to work for canonical :P
[16:59:55] <FatPhil> So breakage is a present tense noun, brokage must be a past tense noun?
[17:00:15] <janrinok> FatPhil: I like the way you think....
[17:00:36] * NCommander now has dynamic moles (gopher CGI) working
[17:00:38] <NCommander> I feel like I'm looking down a rabbit hole here
[17:00:43] <LaminatorX> GOPHER!
[17:00:56] <janrinok> LaminatorX: hi - how are you feeling today?
[17:01:22] <LaminatorX> Dog tired, but pretty chipper otherwise.
[17:01:28] <FatPhil> I looked for a gopher spec, found the RFC, then looked at the source for a gopher page, and it was nothing like the RFC??!?!?
[17:01:45] <janrinok> LaminatorX: good to hear, hope you get some sleep soon
[17:02:05] <janrinok> FatPhil: you sound surprised?
[17:03:07] <janrinok> bbl
[17:03:10] <NCommander> FatPhil, what gopher browser?
[17:03:21] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[17:03:28] <LaminatorX> Man, my first net access was gopher via BITNET. First time I saw Mosaic, I thought, "pretty, but way slow compared to gopher."
[17:03:33] <FatPhil> Iceweasel 3.5
[17:04:06] <FatPhil> Mosaic with links to images, not inline images, I hope!
[17:05:02] <LaminatorX> As I recal, it was a Myers-Briggs test using radio-buttons. (ooooOOOOoooooo)
[17:05:11] <LaminatorX> Cutting edge interactivity!
[17:06:05] <LaminatorX> (And, in fairness, something that would have been a PITA to di via gopher.)
[17:06:08] * NCommander notes he actually tried SN in Mosiac
[17:06:09] <NCommander> Its kinda usable ...
[17:07:01] <NCommander> LaminatorX, need Gopher+ support
[17:07:17] <NCommander> FatPhil, ah, Mozilla's native gopher support (which went away) is kinda silly
[17:07:24] <NCommander> FatPhil, it basically converts gopher -> HTML on the fly
[17:08:48] <drcoolbp> I'd like to mention the shortlist of names, is there a story submission yet?
[17:09:15] <mattie_p> Not that I've seen yet
[17:09:22] <mattie_p> I think MrBluze was working on it?
[17:10:13] <drcoolbp> do you mind if I mention it in #Soylent?
[17:10:20] <mattie_p> nope, that's fine
[17:10:29] <mattie_p> gotta run anyway, back in an hour or so
[17:10:34] <drcoolbp> k
[17:13:44] LaminatorX is now known as LaminatorX|afk
[17:19:12] paulej72 is now known as paulej72_AFK
[17:21:13] -!- SoyCow5656 has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[17:29:03] drcoolbp is now known as drcoolbp|afk
[17:32:55] <drcoolbp|afk> !maxusers
[17:33:00] <drcoolbp|afk> !maxuid
[17:33:07] * drcoolbp|afk sighs
[17:33:31] <xlefay> !current-uid
[17:33:31] <baaaacon> The current maximum UID is 3851, owned by Stivie
[17:34:33] <drcoolbp|afk> thx
[17:34:43] <drcoolbp|afk> how's that IRC doc coming BTW?
[17:35:13] <xlefay> Which one are you referring to now?
[17:35:48] <xlefay> I really don't know if I should even spend time on writing that stuff or finishing it since there's no conclusive answer whether IRC will stay or not.
[17:36:15] <xlefay> It if ends up being a no, I'd hate to look back and have wasted even more time. :/
[17:37:10] <drcoolbp|afk> I think there will always be IRC
[17:37:21] <drcoolbp|afk> the debate seemed to be between freenode/self
[17:37:49] <drcoolbp|afk> there are drawbacks, yes, but there are so many benefits IMO
[17:38:03] <xlefay> yea, I'm talking specifically about self. If there's freenode, there' more than enough docs
[17:38:21] * xlefay notes I have yet to so more thorough and clear docs than those on freenode
[17:39:39] <drcoolbp|afk> ah, that makes sense
[17:40:13] <drcoolbp|afk> xlefay: I may reply to your email along the lines of: "This is starting to sound cool, devs? What do you thinkg?"
[17:40:29] <xlefay> yea
[17:40:41] <drcoolbp|afk> s/cool/really useful and worthwile endeavor/
[17:41:17] -!- xyzzyyzzyx [xyzzyyzzyx!~48f3b602@72.243.zhg.v] has joined #staff
[17:41:20] <drcoolbp|afk> as there's no way in 5 years I'll be able to learn enough code to be able to attempt what you're talking about
[17:41:44] * drcoolbp|afk used BASIC once 20 years ago, and VB twice 17 years ago
[17:41:51] <drcoolbp|afk> = (
[17:42:07] <xlefay> It's not that difficult really. You pipe the emails to a script, that scripts checks the db which e-mails are valid, then stuffs it there and done. The rest of the system would be slightly more complicated but still relatively straight forward
[17:42:17] -!- xyzzyyzzyx [xyzzyyzzyx!~48f3b602@72.243.zhg.v] has parted #staff
[17:42:48] <drcoolbp|afk> it's the latter I'm refferring to
[17:43:02] <drcoolbp|afk> anyway, I'm going back afk, BBL
[17:43:24] * drcoolbp|afk slips away into the fog
[17:46:12] <mattie_p> back now
[17:46:21] <NCommander> hey mattie_p
[17:46:28] <mattie_p> what is up, NCommander
[17:46:34] <mattie_p> amd I fired yet in the latest revolt?
[17:46:36] <NCommander> mattie_p, playing with Gopher
[17:46:56] <mattie_p> oh, so I'll just be undermined then fired. Good to know
[17:47:06] <mattie_p> =)
[17:47:15] <drcoolbp|afk> what is the karma cap on SN?
[17:47:26] <mattie_p> 50
[17:47:29] <drcoolbp|afk> ah
[17:47:33] <xlefay> almost at 50 :-/
[17:47:40] * drcoolbp|afk still needs to catch up to you 2
[17:47:40] <xlefay> Can we get it raised? (A)
[17:47:50] <mattie_p> yes, stored as a float, apparently
[17:48:01] <mattie_p> so partically unlimited potential
[17:48:01] <NCommander> mattie_p, I meant the protocol
[17:48:07] <mattie_p> :p
[17:48:13] <mattie_p> I know, I've been keeping up
[17:48:59] <mattie_p> drcoolbp|afk I am pretty sure I was the first to get to 50, primarily for posting the first news stories that robind published, and then from making comments that gave kudos to people who found errors
[17:49:19] <drcoolbp|afk> = )
[17:49:27] <mattie_p> for some reason my comments admitting our flaws, quirks, or thought process tend to get modded up
[17:49:27] <drcoolbp|afk> aw fuckit
[17:49:31] drcoolbp|afk is now known as drcoolbp
[17:49:44] <xlefay> http://soylentnews.org .. so when is that CSS going to get fixed?
[17:49:59] <drcoolbp> mattie_p: from what I've seen people really appreciate that we (you) admit our mistakes
[17:50:01] * NCommander notes he hit 50 a few days after mattie_p did
[17:50:56] <mattie_p> NCommander that is because you mostly worked behind the scenes, and are not and were not the public face
[17:51:17] <mattie_p> like it nor not, I've kind of taken that role because no one else was
[17:51:20] <NCommander> mattie_p, true
[17:51:55] * NCommander uses nail polish remover to erase mattie_p's pubic face
[17:52:05] <mattie_p> !grab NCommander
[17:52:05] <baaaacon> Added quote 14
[17:52:17] <mattie_p> I need to alias that
[17:52:35] <mattie_p> pubic != pubLic
[17:52:49] <NCommander> mattie_p, I'm far too quotable
[17:52:58] <mattie_p> you certainly are
[17:53:26] <NCommander> oh crap
[17:53:26] <NCommander> Unquote, unquote, UNQUOTE!
[17:53:58] <mattie_p> lol
[17:54:10] <mattie_p> my wife is starting at me, wondering why I'm chuckling
[17:54:28] <mattie_p> she just asked if I draw on my genitals
[17:54:35] <mattie_p> and why you know about it
[17:55:56] * NCommander is trying very hard to keep a straight face
[17:58:35] <mattie_p> keep trying, my friend, keep trying
[18:00:56] <drcoolbp> omg you two are rediculous
[18:01:05] * drcoolbp gets popcorn
[18:04:07] -!- robind [robind!~robind@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/robind] has joined #staff
[18:04:07] -!- mode/#staff [+v robind] by buttercake
[18:04:56] FoobarBazbot is now known as FoobarBazbot|afk
[18:09:05] <mattie_p> heya, robind
[18:09:24] <robind> morning
[18:12:32] <robind> unfortunate that a troll got all uppity on you.
[18:13:07] <robind> he really has no right to complain...I think banning someone for a continuous stream of obscenities is acceptable.
[18:13:17] paulej72_AFK is now known as paulej72
[18:14:20] <mattie_p> I think its all settled
[18:14:37] <robind> word
[18:14:39] <mattie_p> He made wild accusations, I responded with facts
[18:14:51] <mattie_p> *verifiable facts*
[18:15:23] <xlefay> Doesn't mean he's going to stop till people stop caring to respond. That's what it's all about, attention
[18:15:24] <mattie_p> doesn't seem to be any lasting harm, and I got modded +4 informative on /. as a result
[18:15:44] <mattie_p> yeah, but I'm done responding directly to him.
[18:16:04] * mattie_p notes the ban list on the main site is completely empty.
[18:16:38] <xlefay> Probably why he didn't post as himself but AC otherwise his karma would be in the negative now, oh well I can't be bothered. I'm working on the nerdrpg quest map now ^_^
[18:16:41] <mattie_p> I wonder if there is a safe way to make that publicly available?
[18:16:49] <mattie_p> work it!
[18:17:16] <mattie_p> if he is AC, he is using proxies because IPs are different. No worries either way.
[18:17:31] <xlefay> You seen the map yet?
[18:17:33] <mattie_p> funny thing is, thought, he posted this morning 4 hours ago as himself
[18:17:37] <mattie_p> yeah, I saw the preview
[18:18:06] <xlefay> The world map is done but the page looks a bit empty.. thinking about putting the world & quest map on the same page
[18:18:17] <xlefay> least it'd look less empty
[18:18:31] <xlefay> You find yourself on the map yet?
[18:18:44] <mattie_p> you could probably put the map there, quest map, and also put user leader board there too
[18:18:49] <mattie_p> not recently, a couple of hours ago
[18:19:15] <xlefay> leader board is on /players but I suppose I could also add it there
[18:19:29] <drcoolbp> OFFTOPIC: eek ionews.org might be confusing with http://io9.com
[18:19:50] <xlefay> How's that off-topic? and no, I don't think that would be confusing.
[18:20:09] <drcoolbp> I WAS INTERJECTING I GUESS
[18:20:13] <drcoolbp> OOPS
[18:20:17] <drcoolbp> sorry
[18:22:44] -!- bytram [bytram!~a6b5034a@Soylent/Staff/Developer/martyb] has joined #staff
[18:22:44] -!- mode/#staff [+v bytram] by buttercake
[18:22:58] <mattie_p> back in a little, need to get some stuff done
[18:23:16] <bytram> mattie_p: hi mattie_p !!
[18:23:45] <mattie_p> bytram! Hi and bye!
[18:23:52] <bytram> just popping in for a few minutes.
[18:24:08] <bytram> mattie_p: have a great day!
[18:24:43] <drcoolbp> bytram: http://soylentnews.org
[18:25:58] <bytram> drcoolbp: Nice! thanks for that!!
[18:26:08] <drcoolbp> likewise
[18:26:18] * bytram thinks it would have been *sweet* if it really *was* 42!
[18:26:24] <drcoolbp> right?
[18:27:12] <bytram> in the grand scheme of things, what's 20 orders of magnitude anyway??
[18:27:26] <drcoolbp> er uh...
[18:27:32] <drcoolbp> negligible?
[18:27:35] <bytram> a rounding error?
[18:27:38] <drcoolbp> sure
[18:27:42] <bytram> LOL
[18:27:50] <drcoolbp> ah crap, I gotta run, BBL
[18:28:03] drcoolbp is now known as drcoolbp|afk
[18:28:05] <bytram> drcoolbp: ciao for no!
[18:28:06] <bytram> drcoolbp: ciao for now!
[18:28:09] <drcoolbp|afk> = )
[18:45:18] LaminatorX|afk is now known as LaminatorX
[18:46:36] <LaminatorX> Universal expansion has outpaced the change in the dynamics underlying Planck Length. At some point in the past, it was 42 digits of precision.
[18:47:42] <bytram> LaminatorX: intersesting! so that's it, then? Everything? = )
[18:48:27] <LaminatorX> Or it was, anyway.
[18:49:26] <bytram> silly question... but I was unsure whether it should be 60, 61, or 62 decimal places. ideas?
[18:50:08] <bytram> actually, add it to the comments... build the site, yanno?
[18:50:11] <LaminatorX> As in does the three count as one of the digits? no. 61 was the exponent.
[18:51:30] <bytram> oky, thanks!
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[18:55:07] -!- buttercake has quit [Service unloaded.]
[18:55:07] -!- FortuneTeller [FortuneTeller!buttercake@services.] has joined #staff
[18:55:07] -!- mode/#staff [+o FortuneTeller] by services.
[19:20:19] -!- SoyCow5656 [SoyCow5656!~d05b7b22@208.91.vnl.zo] has parted #staff
[19:22:46] bytram is now known as bytram_afk
[19:28:26] <mattie_p> back, people
[19:29:18] -!- baaaacon has quit [Excess Flood]
[19:30:21] -!- baaaacon [baaaacon!~Bender@Soylent/Bot/Bender] has joined #staff
[19:30:21] -!- mode/#staff [+v baaaacon] by FortuneTeller
[19:31:55] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[19:35:30] -!- baaaacon has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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[19:37:39] -!- mode/#staff [+v baaaacon] by FortuneTeller
[19:47:54] <NCommander> I need to be up in four hours
[19:48:05] NCommander changed topic of #staff to: mattie_p controls the p and your soul
[19:48:52] <janrinok> NCommander: sleep well!
[19:49:20] <NCommander> ugh
[19:49:22] <NCommander> janrinok, maybe
[19:57:29] <mattie_p> umm, I do?
[19:57:45] <xlefay> Only on television
[19:58:38] <mattie_p> .op
[19:58:38] -!- mode/#staff [+o mattie_p] by FortuneTeller
[19:58:40] mattie_p changed topic of #staff to: Commander: mattie_p -> only on television
[20:00:57] <NCommander> !quote NCommander
[20:00:57] <baaaacon> Quote 1 - <NCommander> mattie_p, I dunno, are you going to mail me an explosive device if I have you edit ANOTHER 3k novel?
[20:01:01] <baaaacon> Also in quotes: 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14
[20:01:08] <xlefay> ..... LOL
[20:01:12] <NCommander> 7-14 ...
[20:01:13] <NCommander> Nice
[20:01:26] <mattie_p> !quote 4
[20:01:26] <baaaacon> Quote 4 - <NCommander> mattie_p: because I've been riding you like a cheap slut and think you could use some downtime?
[20:01:29] <mattie_p> !quote 5
[20:01:29] <baaaacon> Quote 5 - <cosurgi> wow. I think I just learned how to use quotes.
[20:01:31] <xlefay> !quote 2
[20:01:31] <baaaacon> Quote 2 - <xlefay> Mind you that bot really is weird.
[20:01:32] <xlefay> !quote 3
[20:01:32] <baaaacon> Quote 3 - <paulej72> I can't wait to get the full version
[20:01:41] <xlefay> hmm.. they don't seem really funny those
[20:01:43] <xlefay> !quote 6
[20:01:43] <baaaacon> Quote 6 - <cosurgi> !grab cosurgi
[20:01:48] <xlefay> !quote 15
[20:01:49] <baaaacon> Can't find quote 15
[20:01:51] <xlefay> heh...
[20:01:56] <xlefay> so only the funny ones are from NCommander?
[20:02:15] <NCommander> Right, next on the TODO list: personalities for the staff
[20:02:20] <paulej72> NCommander grabbed mine xlefay
[20:02:28] <xlefay> !grab NCommander
[20:02:28] <baaaacon> Added quote 15
[20:02:30] <xlefay> ;')
[20:02:35] <xlefay> haha paulej72 :P
[20:02:54] <xlefay> (make that 7-15, sir.)
[20:03:06] <NCommander> Maybe I can monopolize the low UID quotes
[20:03:12] <paulej72> !grab paulej72
[20:03:12] <baaaacon> Added quote 16
[20:03:39] <paulej72> wanted to see if I could do that
[20:03:47] <xlefay> !quote 16
[20:03:48] <baaaacon> Quote 16 - <paulej72> !grab paulej72
[20:03:49] <NCommander> !quote NCommander
[20:03:49] <baaaacon> Quote 1 - <NCommander> mattie_p, I dunno, are you going to mail me an explosive device if I have you edit ANOTHER 3k novel?
[20:03:52] <xlefay> =)
[20:03:53] <baaaacon> Also in quotes: 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15
[20:04:15] <paulej72> lolololo
[20:04:17] <xlefay> !apro quote
[20:04:17] <baaaacon> commands matching quote: quote
[20:04:20] <xlefay> !apro grab
[20:04:21] <baaaacon> commands matching grab: grab
[20:04:25] <NCommander> !help quote
[20:04:25] <baaaacon> can't find help on quote
[20:04:28] <NCommander> !help life
[20:04:29] <baaaacon> can't find help on life
[20:04:35] <paulej72> I grabbed my own grab
[20:05:17] <mattie_p> brb, getting kids from the bus
[20:05:19] <xlefay> .why does life exists? No.. life
[20:05:24] <NCommander> paulej72, that's like being your own secret santa. Sure you can do it, but its just kinda sad and depressing
[20:05:34] <paulej72> yes it is
[20:05:47] <paulej72> but you do get something you like out of it
[20:05:50] <xlefay> I do enjoy seeing what FortuneTeller replies.
[20:06:44] <NCommander> I'm afraid what will happen when these got on the site as QOTD
[20:07:01] <NCommander> We'll have a permanent record of our stupidity always on display for ever and every
[20:07:03] <xlefay> Ooh you plan to adding these to the site?
[20:07:13] <NCommander> Yeah
[20:07:16] * xlefay was also planning a quote db... but then it won't be needed anymore
[20:07:24] <xlefay> aah saves me the trouble, hehe - that's great. ;-)
[20:07:27] <NCommander> I won't mind having an abililty to grab multiquotes
[20:07:31] * xlefay starts removing all his stupid quotes.
[20:07:37] <NCommander> !grab xlefay
[20:07:37] <baaaacon> Added quote 17
[20:07:42] <xlefay> oh god.
[20:07:59] <paulej72> !grab xlefay
[20:07:59] <baaaacon> Added quote 18
[20:08:01] <xlefay> !quote 16
[20:08:01] <baaaacon> Quote 16 - <paulej72> !grab paulej72
[20:08:03] <xlefay> !quote 17
[20:08:03] <baaaacon> Quote 17 - <xlefay> aah saves me the trouble, hehe - that's great. ;-)
[20:08:14] <NCommander> Its like court, Its kinda fun when you're not on the receiving end!
[20:08:15] <xlefay> aah.. so all I have to do is keep using /me and it won't be able to grab me!
[20:08:18] <paulej72> !quote 18
[20:08:18] <baaaacon> Quote 18 - <xlefay> oh god.
[20:09:09] <xlefay> baaaacon / bender is pretty stupid regarding /me's; it simply doesn't support that ctcp.
[20:09:50] <NCommander> xlefay, somehow, this is your fault. I dunno why it is, but it is ...
[20:10:02] <paulej72> !grab NCommander
[20:10:02] <baaaacon> Added quote 19
[20:10:10] <NCommander> Son of a bitch
[20:10:11] <xlefay> I'm getting used to getting the blame, I'll distribute it fairly.
[20:10:18] <NCommander> !grab xlefay
[20:10:18] <baaaacon> Added quote 20
[20:10:46] * NCommander still thinks he holds a monopoly on the quotes file
[20:11:02] <paulej72> !quote NCommander
[20:11:02] <baaaacon> Quote 1 - <NCommander> mattie_p, I dunno, are you going to mail me an explosive device if I have you edit ANOTHER 3k novel?
[20:11:06] <baaaacon> Also in quotes: 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 19
[20:11:31] <paulej72> !quote mattie_p
[20:11:31] <baaaacon> Quote 1 - <NCommander> mattie_p, I dunno, are you going to mail me an explosive device if I have you edit ANOTHER 3k novel?
[20:11:34] <NCommander> You know, I can threaten the editoral staff with !quote 1
[20:11:35] <baaaacon> Also in quotes: 4, 8, 12, 14
[20:11:47] <xlefay> NCommander: saves you the time writing it over and over ;]
[20:12:07] <paulej72> !quote NCommander
[20:12:08] <baaaacon> Quote 1 - <NCommander> mattie_p, I dunno, are you going to mail me an explosive device if I have you edit ANOTHER 3k novel?
[20:12:11] <paulej72> !grab NCommander
[20:12:12] <baaaacon> Added quote 21
[20:12:12] <baaaacon> Also in quotes: 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 19
[20:12:27] <NCommander> paulej72, recursive quotes?
[20:12:49] <paulej72> !quote 21
[20:12:49] <baaaacon> Quote 21 - <NCommander> You know, I can threaten the editoral staff with !quote 1
[20:12:51] <NCommander> xlefay, meh, honestly, I hope no one reads my emails so I can pretend that we have agreement and push through whatever it is I want with no discussion what's so ever.
[20:13:05] <paulej72> yes recusive quotes
[20:13:09] <xlefay> unfortunately, we all do read it.. just not always in time ;]
[20:13:11] <xlefay> !grab NCommander
[20:13:11] <baaaacon> Added quote 22
[20:13:13] <xlefay> though.
[20:13:23] * NCommander rolls eyes
[20:13:51] <xlefay> just be sure you don't get dizzy.
[20:13:57] <NCommander> I won't be able to add the quotes DB to the site. It will look like I'm getting off to the sound of my own voice..
[20:14:07] -!- Mrbluze_zzz has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[20:14:09] <paulej72> Hey I read NCommander's quotes, they are good bedtime reading, puts me right to sleep :)
[20:14:17] <NCommander> !grab paulej72
[20:14:17] <baaaacon> Added quote 23
[20:14:24] <NCommander> wait
[20:14:26] <NCommander> !ungrab
[20:14:31] <NCommander> ... shit
[20:14:48] <paulej72> I ment to say emails there
[20:15:09] <xlefay> rofl!
[20:15:18] <NCommander> paulej72, I love you too
[20:15:34] <paulej72> is this a another bromance?
[20:15:39] <FortuneTeller> !grab NCommander
[20:15:45] <NCommander> More like a one night stand with sloppy seconds.
[20:15:52] <xlefay> think someone broke ben
[20:15:56] <xlefay> baaaacon: *
[20:16:05] <drcoolbp|afk> nice to see some official discussion in here finally
[20:16:13] <NCommander> !grab drcoolbp|afk
[20:16:13] <baaaacon> Added quote 24
[20:16:18] drcoolbp|afk is now known as drcoolbp
[20:16:19] <xlefay> drcoolbp|afk: well we were talking about a quote db
[20:16:29] <drcoolbp> fair enough
[20:16:34] <paulej72> we broke it
[20:16:39] <NCommander> I thought we were talking about intellectual masturbation
[20:16:46] <xlefay> that too.
[20:16:50] <paulej72> !grab NCommander
[20:16:50] <baaaacon> Added quote 25
[20:16:52] <NCommander> shit
[20:16:54] <NCommander> Shit shit shit
[20:16:59] <NCommander> I need to be less quoatable
[20:17:00] <paulej72> !grab NCommander
[20:17:00] <baaaacon> Added quote 26
[20:17:06] <NCommander> .............................................
[20:17:39] <xlefay> ok, this is becoming madness. Before you know it he'll be afraid to write
[20:17:46] <NCommander> paulej72, For the record, I would just like you to know for now and all time, fuck you, and fuck the horse you road in on
[20:17:51] <paulej72> I am under the influence of cold medicine right now and any action I do is not my own :)
[20:18:04] <paulej72> !grab NCommander
[20:18:04] <baaaacon> Added quote 27
[20:18:15] <xlefay> God you are relentless paulej72
[20:18:21] <NCommander> !quote NCommander
[20:18:21] <baaaacon> Quote 1 - <NCommander> mattie_p, I dunno, are you going to mail me an explosive device if I have you edit ANOTHER 3k novel?
[20:18:25] <baaaacon> Also in quotes: 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 19, 21, 22, 23, 25, 26, 27
[20:18:35] <NCommander> Christ ...
[20:18:49] <xlefay> He's currently unavailable, be sure to try again later though.
[20:18:55] <drcoolbp> now NCommander's just doing it on purpose
[20:19:01] <paulej72> If you want to clean up the quote list I have no objections
[20:19:28] <xlefay> I'm already making backups paulej72, just in case.
[20:19:34] <NCommander> drcoolbp, I'm just baiting paulej72. Its more fun than fishing with explosives or poutine--
[20:19:48] <drcoolbp> NCommander: I'm on to you
[20:20:06] <paulej72> I am sitting here laughing my ass off
[20:20:41] <drcoolbp> well I'm eating, if for 5 minutes you all could be less funny I'd really appreciate it
[20:20:44] -!- Landon has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[20:20:48] <xlefay> !grab drcoolbp
[20:20:48] <baaaacon> Added quote 28
[20:20:55] <mattie_p> !quote 4
[20:20:55] <baaaacon> Quote 4 - <NCommander> mattie_p: because I've been riding you like a cheap slut and think you could use some downtime?
[20:20:59] <mattie_p> !quote 7
[20:20:59] <baaaacon> Quote 7 - <NCommander> Cats go physco when you light them on fire
[20:21:01] <xlefay> LOL
[20:21:04] <mattie_p> !quote 8
[20:21:04] <baaaacon> Quote 8 - <stderr> mattie_p: OMFSM! I'm so tired I misread that as "mattie_p pees in NCommander's direction :)"...
[20:21:08] <mattie_p> !quote 9
[20:21:08] <baaaacon> Quote 9 - <NCommander> I SHALL SMOOTHER THEM WITH PAPERWORK
[20:21:08] <paulej72> makes up for the hand that got bitten off when I was feeding the troll the ohter day.
[20:21:12] -!- Landon [Landon!~Landon@Soylent/Staff/IRC/Landon] has joined #staff
[20:21:12] -!- mode/#staff [+v Landon] by FortuneTeller
[20:21:17] <mattie_p> !quote 10
[20:21:17] <baaaacon> Quote 10 - <NCommander> shit
[20:21:23] <mattie_p> thats the one
[20:21:24] <NCommander> drcoolbp, I'll write a 20k email saying why we must not be funny, how we must not be funny, and why funniness is bad, then FatPhil will destroy it all in a single paragraph
[20:21:27] <xlefay> This is getting scarier by the minute.
[20:21:29] <mattie_p> !quote 11
[20:21:29] <baaaacon> Quote 11 - <NCommander> !grab NCommander
[20:21:33] <mattie_p> !quote 12
[20:21:34] <baaaacon> Quote 12 - <NCommander> You know, I noticed most of my quotes have to do with mattie_p. I smell the start of a wonderful bromance.
[20:21:34] <xlefay> !grab NCommander
[20:21:34] <baaaacon> Added quote 29
[20:21:36] <xlefay> LOOL SO TRUE
[20:21:41] <drcoolbp> NCommander: noooooooooo! whatever you do don't do that
[20:21:44] <paulej72> !grab NCommander
[20:21:45] <baaaacon> Added quote 30
[20:21:45] <mattie_p> !quote 13
[20:21:45] <baaaacon> Quote 13 - <stderr> NCommander: No, you shall only do me once... But do me right... Not: <NCommander> !todo stderr -> stderr_dk
[20:21:54] <mattie_p> !quote 14
[20:21:54] <baaaacon> Quote 14 - <NCommander> mattie_p, true
[20:22:03] <mattie_p> need to remember that one as well
[20:22:06] <mattie_p> !quote 15
[20:22:06] <baaaacon> Quote 15 - <NCommander> Right, next on the TODO list: personalities for the staff
[20:22:07] <xlefay> rofl
[20:22:14] <mattie_p> !quote 19
[20:22:14] <baaaacon> Quote 19 - <NCommander> xlefay, somehow, this is your fault. I dunno why it is, but it is ...
[20:22:19] <mattie_p> !quote 21
[20:22:19] <baaaacon> Quote 21 - <NCommander> You know, I can threaten the editoral staff with !quote 1
[20:22:29] <mattie_p> !quote 22
[20:22:29] <baaaacon> Quote 22 - <NCommander> xlefay, meh, honestly, I hope no one reads my emails so I can pretend that we have agreement and push through whatever it is I want with no discussion what's so ever.
[20:22:36] <mattie_p> !quote 23
[20:22:36] <baaaacon> Quote 23 - <paulej72> Hey I read NCommander's quotes, they are good bedtime reading, puts me right to sleep :)
[20:22:45] <mattie_p> good one there too
[20:22:57] <drcoolbp> was supposed to be "emails"
[20:23:12] <NCommander> What's bad is most of these are actually funny.
[20:23:13] <drcoolbp> woulda been funnier if he used the right word
[20:23:16] <mattie_p> yeah, probably
[20:23:22] * NCommander votes for xlefay to edit the quote db
[20:23:29] <paulej72> seconded
[20:23:32] * drcoolbp thirds
[20:23:34] <xlefay> it's a plain text file.. k, wait
[20:23:36] <mattie_p> we have a motion on the floor
[20:23:43] -!- baaaacon has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[20:23:51] LaminatorX is now known as LaminatorX|afk
[20:24:02] <drcoolbp> oh please don't use the karma voting system again, I nearly had an epiliptic seizure
[20:24:13] <mattie_p> I was about to, actually
[20:24:16] <NCommander> epiliptic_seizure--
[20:24:38] <paulej72> file is being edited bender is down
[20:24:40] <drcoolbp> oh we brokezd it again?
[20:24:50] <drcoolbp> ah
[20:25:03] <drcoolbp> we have a "bender" down people
[20:25:11] <NCommander> For one brief moment
[20:25:21] <NCommander> I AM UNQUOTABLE!
[20:25:44] <paulej72> so you take the time now to not be quotable NCommander
[20:26:21] * xlefay notes he can also adds in quotes...
[20:26:26] * NCommander goes streaking through the wild with nothing but a flower in my hair
[20:26:35] -!- baaaacon [baaaacon!~Bender@Soylent/Bot/Bender] has joined #staff
[20:26:35] -!- mode/#staff [+v baaaacon] by FortuneTeller
[20:26:46] <xlefay> !quote paulej72
[20:26:46] <baaaacon> Quote 1 - <paulej72> I can't wait to get the full version
[20:26:50] <baaaacon> Also in quotes: 14, 19, 23
[20:26:52] <xlefay> !quote 14
[20:26:52] <baaaacon> Quote 14 - <paulej72> !grab paulej72
[20:26:53] <xlefay> !quote 19
[20:26:53] <baaaacon> Quote 19 - <paulej72> Hey I read NCommander's emails, they are good bedtime reading, puts me right to sleep :)
[20:26:56] <xlefay> ;]
[20:27:07] <NCommander> xlefay, fucky fuck fuck fuck
[20:27:17] <xlefay> Please, let's not.
[20:27:31] <paulej72> !grab xlefay
[20:27:31] <baaaacon> Added quote 26
[20:27:41] <paulej72> see what I did there
[20:27:47] <NCommander> !quote NCommander
[20:27:47] <baaaacon> Quote 0 - <NCommander> mattie_p, I dunno, are you going to mail me an explosive device if I have you edit ANOTHER 3k novel?
[20:27:47] <NCommander> ...
[20:27:47] <NCommander> I'm feeling a bit castrated here
[20:27:51] <baaaacon> Also in quotes: 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 25
[20:27:58] <paulej72> I think the silly has left me for now
[20:28:02] <xlefay> !quote NCommander
[20:28:03] <baaaacon> Quote 0 - <NCommander> mattie_p, I dunno, are you going to mail me an explosive device if I have you edit ANOTHER 3k novel?
[20:28:07] <baaaacon> Also in quotes: 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 25
[20:28:07] <xlefay> !grab NCommander
[20:28:08] <baaaacon> Added quote 27
[20:28:09] <xlefay> oops
[20:28:13] <xlefay> Now, that's a bad one!
[20:28:27] <xlefay> On that note, I'm back to work. Have fun!
[20:28:38] <drcoolbp> no worries of that not happening today
[20:28:42] <xlefay> *wonders, wasn't NCommander supposed to leave for the busstop?*
[20:28:53] <NCommander> Huh? Work? I thought you just lived on the couch and occasionally took timbits from the table.
[20:29:00] <xlefay> No.
[20:29:12] <xlefay> Looking for work atm .. but working on some nerdrpg magic site ;]
[20:29:20] <NCommander> xlefay, sounds lame.
[20:29:27] <xlefay> why?
[20:29:37] <paulej72> I have to get to work as well.
[20:30:11] <xlefay> nerdrpg as in idlerpg >..< magic because it's going to be awesome
[20:30:42] <NCommander> xlefay, we used to say that about slashcode. All we've ended up with is slashed wrists
[20:30:55] <xlefay> well.. there's no actual magic involved
[20:31:31] <NCommander> xlefay, so its like supergluing a horn to a pony
[20:31:43] <xlefay> Why would you do that?
[20:32:02] <NCommander> xlefay, someone hasn't been inducted to the world of my little pony :-P
[20:32:17] * NCommander had a roommate who was a bronie
[20:32:26] <xlefay> I try to avoid those subjects wherever possible, it's probably another goatse
[20:32:28] <drcoolbp> !grab NCommander
[20:32:28] <baaaacon> Added quote 28
[20:32:53] <NCommander> !quote 28
[20:32:53] <baaaacon> Quote 28 - <NCommander> xlefay, someone hasn't been inducted to the world of my little pony :-P
[20:32:59] <NCommander> Ah crap
[20:33:08] <xlefay> like I said earlier, baaaacon sucks for not supporting ctcp
[20:33:11] <mattie_p> NCommander, you need to learn to think before you type
[20:33:14] <xlefay> well that part of it anyway
[20:33:21] <NCommander> mattie_p, we'd still have John as our manager then.
[20:33:43] <xlefay> NCommander: not really.. most of us would've left by now
[20:33:46] <NCommander> too soon?
[20:33:50] <mattie_p> Not completely true, you thought long and hard about that before that session
[20:34:06] <mattie_p> I recall a couple days in advance you discussed this with everyone
[20:34:16] -!- Landon has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[20:34:19] <NCommander> mattie_p, argh, you had to introduce facts into this!
[20:34:25] <paulej72> Ok I will be back later
[20:34:28] <mattie_p> I'm the fact man. can't help it
[20:34:30] <NCommander> cya paulej72
[20:34:34] <xlefay> .. that would be such a good quote right now...
[20:34:37] <mattie_p> later, paulej72
[20:34:39] <NCommander> mattie_p, argh, you had to introduce facts into this!
[20:34:41] <xlefay> ciao paulej72
[20:34:43] <xlefay> !grab NCommander
[20:34:43] <baaaacon> Added quote 29
[20:34:57] <NCommander> I'm a quote field, I admit it
[20:34:59] <NCommander> and no quote
[20:35:03] * mattie_p notes you didn't talk to me though.
[20:35:12] <drcoolbp> oh burn
[20:35:16] <NCommander> mattie_p, I did, you said you were supportive of John.
[20:35:22] paulej72 is now known as paulej72_afk
[20:35:22] <xlefay> I have to say though.. we're still standing today.
[20:35:24] <NCommander> mattie_p, you failed the secret test of character.
[20:35:33] <mattie_p> NCommander I didn't know it was a choice
[20:35:56] -!- Landon [Landon!~Landon@Soylent/Staff/IRC/Landon] has joined #staff
[20:35:56] -!- mode/#staff [+v Landon] by FortuneTeller
[20:36:18] <NCommander> mattie_p, well, that's why its a secret test of character. If it was a public test of character, it wouldn't be super useful :-P
[20:36:42] <drcoolbp> !grab NCommander
[20:36:42] <baaaacon> Added quote 30
[20:36:45] <xlefay> least he didn't use the poll system to poll it
[20:36:58] <NCommander> drcoolbp, ...
[20:36:58] <NCommander> !quote
[20:36:58] <baaaacon> quote <ID/search string>
[20:36:58] <mattie_p> well, how about this: I am supportive of the site. Whatever it takes to make SN successful is what I will do.
[20:37:10] <NCommander> mattie_p, that can be taking so out of context
[20:37:32] <mattie_p> and...
[20:37:41] <mattie_p> if it takes me walking away, that I will do
[20:37:49] <NCommander> mattie_p, nah, we like you here.
[20:37:52] <xlefay> mattie_p: nudies that'll make it successful
[20:37:58] <xlefay> I second that
[20:38:01] <NCommander> xlefay, ow.
[20:38:02] <mattie_p> I know that, I'm just saying what I'm willing to do
[20:38:05] <NCommander> xlefay, like ... ow
[20:38:08] LaminatorX|afk is now known as LaminatorX
[20:38:09] <NCommander> That mental image ...
[20:38:09] <NCommander> ow
[20:38:14] <xlefay> LOL
[20:38:21] <drcoolbp> that's mattie_p dedicated he is, he'll even walk away
[20:38:25] <NCommander> I realize mattie_p might have been a nice looking private, but that was a long time ago.
[20:38:34] <xlefay> !grab NCommander
[20:38:35] <baaaacon> Added quote 31
[20:38:36] <xlefay> oh man
[20:38:38] <mattie_p> which channel did you talk about my pubic faces? I'll even show those (with mrs mattie_p
[20:38:41] <xlefay> I'm so laughing my ass off now
[20:38:44] <mattie_p> 's permission)
[20:39:04] <Landon> !lod
[20:39:04] <baaaacon> ಠ_ಠ
[20:39:07] <NCommander> mattie_p, not even your commanding officer wanted to see your pubic faces
[20:39:14] * NCommander is on a roll with the wordplay tonight
[20:39:33] <mattie_p> Yeah, but we did urinalysis tests in the Army, someone had to look\
[20:39:43] <xlefay> !lod
[20:39:43] <baaaacon> ಠ_ಠ
[20:39:43] <mattie_p> and they said there were no homosexuals in the Army
[20:39:48] <Landon> righties don't hold it with their left hand
[20:39:48] <xlefay> now is the right time
[20:40:05] <NCommander> mattie_p, eh, its a goverment operation. They probably had unices doing it
[20:41:04] <xlefay> not to mention the amount of paperwork, did they hire NCommander for that?
[20:41:13] <NCommander> !grab xlefay
[20:41:13] <baaaacon> Added quote 32
[20:41:47] <NCommander> mattie_p, you know, if you were in the military, I'm honestly shocked your bitch about my emails. I'm no where as verbose as the Army Field Guide to Zipping Up Your Shorts (TRM-001-Revsion7)
[20:42:03] <xlefay> Wait what
[20:42:06] <xlefay> there's a guide for that?
[20:42:10] <drcoolbp> !grab NCommander
[20:42:10] <baaaacon> Added quote 33
[20:42:28] <drcoolbp> !grab xlefay
[20:42:28] <baaaacon> Added quote 34
[20:42:39] <drcoolbp> sorry guys...I need to stop now
[20:42:43] <xlefay> we all do rofl
[20:42:43] <LaminatorX> Janrinok is certainly editing up a storm today.
[20:43:12] <NCommander> xlefay, its the army. If it doesn't involve dedicated instructions, pointed lists, and gone several million dollars over budget, then its not government standard
[20:43:41] <xlefay> millions? You sure you got that one right?
[20:43:55] <NCommander> xlefay, per private, not in general.
[20:44:00] <xlefay> aah
[20:44:10] <NCommander> Well ... per general too
[20:44:25] <xlefay> Guess those billions are exceptions then.
[20:44:33] <NCommander> I think we broke mattie_p or he's plotting some sorta revenge
[20:44:35] <janrinok> LaminatorX: I'm doing my best...
[20:44:41] <xlefay> I bet the US could even take a loan from their military.
[20:44:56] <mattie_p> I was getting lunch
[20:45:04] <mattie_p> and yes, military manuals are verbose
[20:45:06] <drcoolbp> I think my responsibilities on this site are slowly dissolving...
[20:45:13] <xlefay> with a tiny spice of revenge?
[20:45:16] <mattie_p> because they are designed for the lowest common denominator
[20:45:18] <NCommander> mattie_p, ah, no wonder you feel right at home here.
[20:45:20] <NCommander> Uh oh
[20:45:28] <mattie_p> !grab NCommander
[20:45:28] <baaaacon> Added quote 35
[20:45:42] <xlefay> I wonder if !grab name messages_up would work..
[20:45:42] <NCommander> I swear to god
[20:45:42] <mattie_p> I'll save that one for right next to !quote 10
[20:45:56] -!- FunPika [FunPika!~FunPika@Soylent/Staff/Wiki/FunPika] has joined #staff
[20:45:56] -!- mode/#staff [+v FunPika] by FortuneTeller
[20:45:59] <NCommander> The damn bot is going to be a fucking NCommander emulator by time you jokers are done with it
[20:46:23] <drcoolbp> you're the jokester
[20:46:28] <drcoolbp> we are just documenting
[20:46:32] <LaminatorX> Does it know perl?
[20:46:37] <NCommander> !grab LaminatorX
[20:46:37] <baaaacon> Added quote 36
[20:46:44] <mattie_p> NCommander: https://xkcd.com
[20:47:07] <drcoolbp> be back in a few
[20:47:14] <NCommander> mattie_p, ahahaha
[20:47:20] <NCommander> mattie_p, ++
[20:47:37] <bytram_afk> hey all... gotta run. will be busy all weekend, but will try and pop in if I can.
[20:47:45] <mattie_p> later, bytram
[20:47:48] <NCommander> bytram_afk, alright whoever you are
[20:47:49] * NCommander coughs
[20:48:00] * NCommander is loosing track of people
[20:48:07] <mattie_p> == martyb
[20:48:07] <xlefay> NCommander: $ rev bytram
[20:48:17] <NCommander> AH
[20:48:22] <NCommander> bytram_afk, cya later
[20:48:34] <NCommander> Well that was fun
[20:49:00] -!- bytram_afk [bytram_afk!~a6b5034a@Soylent/Staff/Developer/martyb] has parted #staff
[20:49:02] * NCommander notes if this SoylentNews shit doesn't pan out, we can be comedians.
[20:51:34] <mattie_p> its an option
[20:51:37] <NCommander> And on that note
[20:51:43] * NCommander vanville hooks out
[20:51:49] <mattie_p> alright, see you later
[20:52:46] <xlefay> Take care ;)
[20:54:01] audioguyzzz is now known as audioguy
[21:13:56] -!- SoyCow5656 [SoyCow5656!~d05b7b22@208.91.vnl.zo] has joined #staff
[21:15:35] <Landon> hrmm
[21:15:38] <Landon> !suggestion is this bork
[21:15:39] <baaaacon> Suggestion sent!
[21:21:59] <Landon> drcoolbp: you're not getting suggestions from the bot anymore!
[21:22:03] <Landon> !plug-disable suggestion
[21:22:03] <baaaacon> can't find module for suggestion
[21:22:05] <Landon> !plug-disable suggestions
[21:22:07] <baaaacon> unloading and disabling myplugs.common.suggestions
[21:22:11] <baaaacon> done - plug-disable
[21:22:12] <drcoolbp> ?
[21:22:28] <Landon> the mail server is complaining about my emails
[21:22:38] <drcoolbp> okay...
[21:22:41] <Landon> the (SN) mail server is complaining about my (not-so-strict) emails
[21:23:03] <drcoolbp> okay, are you disabling it temporarily?
[21:23:27] <Landon> yeah
[21:23:55] <drcoolbp> okay not a biggie, not heavily used
[21:25:11] <drcoolbp> Landon: I'm going to slightly modify the topic in #soylent in a little while, we are devloping the volunteer process a little more
[21:25:19] <Landon> ok
[21:26:34] -!- SoyCow5656 has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[21:31:25] * paulej72_afk is lurking
[21:31:31] -!- MrBluze [MrBluze!~Mista@Soylent/Staff/IRC/MrBluze] has joined #staff
[21:31:31] -!- mode/#staff [+v MrBluze] by FortuneTeller
[21:32:24] <paulej72_afk> drcoolbp pm please
[21:32:38] <drcoolbp> sure
[21:38:04] MrBluze is now known as Mrbluze|afk
[21:39:25] <drcoolbp> are we doing away with the "Overlord" title? It seems "Team Leader" would be more appropriate (but less comdedic)
[21:39:59] <paulej72_afk> lead cat herder
[21:40:11] <drcoolbp> relatedly: LaminatorX, are you currently the leader of the Editors Team?
[21:40:35] <drcoolbp> ug, I don't like the cat herder term either....
[21:40:57] <paulej72_afk> drcoolbp yes LaminatorX is team leader of eds
[21:41:02] <drcoolbp> thanks
[21:41:20] <paulej72_afk> it was a truely bloodless coup
[21:41:46] <paulej72_afk> much like our commander handoffs
[21:42:19] <drcoolbp> um....
[21:42:37] <drcoolbp> oh *commander* handoffs
[21:42:51] <drcoolbp> I thought you meant fearless leader handoffs
[21:42:57] <drcoolbp> handoff
[21:43:00] <drcoolbp> anyway...
[21:43:35] <drcoolbp> I would like to change the wording on the wiki from Overlord -> Team Leader
[21:43:42] <drcoolbp> seems to make more sense anyway
[21:43:56] <LaminatorX> I am, yes.
[21:44:52] <LaminatorX> And yes, Dopefish was really classy about it, and is still on the team.
[21:45:24] <LaminatorX> I would as soon not be titled, "overlord." It's a bit much.
[21:45:39] <paulej72_afk> drcoolbp as a nobody right now I give you my full permission to change the wording to Team Leader for what it's worth
[21:46:07] <LaminatorX> The other editors proclaimed me "Editor in Chief," but that might be a bit much too.
[21:46:20] <drcoolbp> well I'm going off NCommander's words I belive so that should be kosher
[21:46:42] <paulej72_afk> drcoolbp noone has complained so it must be OK
[21:46:59] <drcoolbp> well someone can change it back, it is a wiki....
[21:47:05] <paulej72_afk> !quote 23
[21:47:05] <baaaacon> Quote 23 - <NCommander> paulej72, For the record, I would just like you to know for now and all time, fuck you, and fuck the horse you road in on
[21:48:25] <paulej72_afk> drcoolbp do you have admin access to the wiki?
[21:48:45] <drcoolbp> no, why?
[21:49:13] <drcoolbp> well...I have the login for the admin user, but FunPika removed the priveledges = (
[21:49:36] <paulej72_afk> You should have it as you do alot of site level edits, and you need it to edit the navigation on the left.
[21:50:10] <drcoolbp> agreed, I'll email funpika
[21:50:23] * FunPika heard that
[21:50:25] <drcoolbp> I may be the most active user on the wiki....
[21:50:30] <drcoolbp> oh hey there funpika
[21:50:36] <drcoolbp> = )
[21:50:51] <paulej72_afk> drcoolbp audioguy would beg to differ
[21:50:53] <drcoolbp> I'm happily re-arranging your wonderful wiki, *again*
[21:51:01] <FunPika> and done
[21:51:05] * drcoolbp checks the user commits on wiki
[21:51:10] <drcoolbp> thanks funpika!
[21:51:33] <paulej72_afk> drcoolbp audioguy is a prolific documenter. The Dev section is 3/4 his work.
[21:51:45] <drcoolbp> yes, but I'm everywhere else
[21:52:36] <paulej72_afk> soon the wiki will be Dev and a few other small pages :)
[21:55:41] <drcoolbp> it's already the largest section by far
[22:03:19] <paulej72_afk> see what did I tell you
[22:03:53] <drcoolbp> oh man I have like 5 editing pages open right now...
[22:04:03] <xlefay> uh oh...
[22:04:05] <xlefay> there goes the wiki!
[22:04:52] <paulej72_afk> so how many are for the same page?
[22:09:15] <drcoolbp> none
[22:09:18] <drcoolbp> that would be bad
[22:09:30] <xlefay> they just be revisions anyway ;
[22:09:31] <xlefay> ;)*
[22:12:58] <FatPhil> writing a webserver in perl's harder than it looks
[22:13:17] <FatPhil> without pulling in some crappy unreadable module, that is
[22:14:40] <drcoolbp> FunPika: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[22:17:57] <FunPika> drcoolbp: Looks good to me currently
[22:18:03] <drcoolbp> cool
[22:18:11] <drcoolbp> I'm working a bit on the team pages now
[22:18:22] <drcoolbp> just updated the Wiki Team page
[22:21:36] <paulej72_afk> updated Dev secion in WhosWho
[22:22:16] <FunPika> I just made sure that everyone who is active and has wiki admin rights currently is in the !wiki group (which gives voice in #wiki).
[22:22:36] <paulej72_afk> Thanks FunPika.
[22:23:11] <drcoolbp> yup, seems to work, thanks sir
[22:24:28] <drcoolbp> you all may note that some of the teams look different from the original organization, I'm trying to derive from what I know about NCommanders plans.
[22:26:45] <paulej72_afk> Ok I am really going to be afk for a while back later
[22:26:49] <janrinok> drcoolbp: I can't see stderr on that page
[22:26:58] <drcoolbp> add him in
[22:27:03] <drcoolbp> I'm doing my best here
[22:27:15] <janrinok> yes, sorry, but I'm not sure where ;)
[22:27:48] <paulej72_afk> I never knew where he fit in either
[22:27:57] <drcoolbp> this page needs some love: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[22:28:02] <xlefay> prolly dev
[22:28:08] <drcoolbp> that's the best Icould come up with
[22:28:09] <mattie_p> that's MrBluze
[22:28:13] <janrinok> yep, sounds good to me
[22:28:14] <drcoolbp> yes
[22:28:38] <mattie_p> It consists of art, themes, design, etc
[22:28:56] <drcoolbp> I feel like they should have a team email address to if it is actually a separate team (rather then linking to bluze's email)
[22:29:06] <paulej72_afk> I asked the dev people to add their info to the dev whoswho in an email I sent to the list, only FatPhil did so.
[22:29:39] <xlefay> drcoolbp: same with every team@sn.. but that's also involved in my proposal earlier ;)
[22:29:47] <mattie_p> give them some time. We can't count on 100% participation within 6 hours
[22:30:55] <xlefay> drcoolbp: nvm misread.
[22:31:04] <drcoolbp> this page isn't being used by anyone except IRC: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[22:31:24] <drcoolbp> hmmm
[22:31:33] <xlefay> rofl
[22:31:54] -!- LaminatorX has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[22:32:10] <drcoolbp> who are all the people under Style on the who's who?
[22:32:44] <drcoolbp> shogun, moo_kuh, PrestonL, mtrycz, CynicGalahad ???
[22:32:50] <paulej72_afk> drcoolbp i would suggest open projects be moved into team pages and deleted.
[22:32:56] <mattie_p> yes
[22:33:00] <drcoolbp> oh actually I've seen mtrycz
[22:33:03] <mattie_p> I think I referenced that in my email
[22:33:07] <mattie_p> didn't I?
[22:33:09] <drcoolbp> paulej72: done
[22:33:23] <paulej72_afk> mattie_p noone reads email :)
[22:33:51] <paulej72_afk> OK got to go, bbl
[22:33:54] <xlefay> I didn't see that one either then again... with the volume you send, it's hard to retain everything that's not pertinent to oneself in particular.
[22:33:58] <xlefay> ciao
[22:35:55] -!- Cyprus [Cyprus!~Cyprus@q-10-08-393-259.hsd3.tn.comcast.net] has joined #staff
[22:43:46] <janrinok> got to go - cheers guys
[22:44:13] -!- janrinok has quit [Quit: leaving]
[22:50:16] <drcoolbp> xlefay: I deleted your open projects page = (
[22:50:26] <xlefay> wasn't mine, didn't care for it either
[22:50:51] <xlefay> but if you were ever to delete something I did make, I would however like to know beforehand ;)
[22:51:36] <Landon> did they get rehomed?
[22:53:51] <Landon> looks like it was
[22:53:58] * Landon goes back to idling
[22:54:10] <xlefay> s/idling/lurking/
[22:55:30] <drcoolbp> Landon: they are onhttp://wiki.soylentnews.org
[22:55:36] <Landon> s/lurking/napping/
[22:55:43] <drcoolbp> oops, try http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[23:06:27] -!- FunPika has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:12:16] -!- drcoolbp has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[23:14:19] -!- drcoolbp [drcoolbp!~mrcoolbp@Soylent/Staff/mrcoolbp] has joined #staff
[23:14:19] -!- mode/#staff [+v drcoolbp] by FortuneTeller
[23:14:50] <drcoolbp> ack, had to reboot
[23:15:33] <drcoolbp> does anyone know if the content@soylentnews.org forwards to laminator already?
[23:16:05] -!- drcoolbp has quit [Client Quit]
[23:16:18] -!- drcoolbp [drcoolbp!~mrcoolbp@Soylent/Staff/mrcoolbp] has joined #staff
[23:16:18] -!- mode/#staff [+v drcoolbp] by FortuneTeller
[23:18:19] baaaacon is now known as theProphecyWillB
[23:18:52] theProphecyWillB is now known as PropheciesWillBe
[23:22:55] <drcoolbp> audioguy: that was an intense email
[23:24:10] <xlefay> drcoolbp: lemme check
[23:24:49] <xlefay> drcoolbp: PM me where it has to go
[23:27:55] <xlefay> drcoolbp: send him a memo, it's done.
[23:28:06] <drcoolbp> I will
[23:28:08] <xlefay> (err, I send L a memo, in case you misunderstood that you had to)
[23:28:16] <drcoolbp> oh
[23:28:37] <drcoolbp> wait what? You will send him one?
[23:28:52] <xlefay> already done
[23:29:13] <drcoolbp> k thanks
[23:37:16] <xlefay> drcoolbp: does your mailbox work yet?
[23:37:20] <drcoolbp> yes
[23:37:24] <audioguy> Which email?
[23:37:24] <drcoolbp> it's mighty nice
[23:37:35] <drcoolbp> but kinda brokez0rz
[23:37:39] <xlefay> Can you PM me the mailserver you're using?
[23:37:44] <xlefay> It doesn't seem to be working here.
[23:38:01] <xlefay> "Retrieving folders 0%" ssl and crap all worked
[23:38:23] -!- Cyprus has quit [Quit: out]
[23:38:26] <drcoolbp> mechjay might be mad at me for sharing...
[23:38:36] <xlefay> don't worry, I created my own mailbox
[23:38:40] <drcoolbp> oh cool
[23:38:41] <audioguy> drcoolbp: I do tend to be very direct.
[23:39:14] <drcoolbp> audioguy: I kinda felt the same way, but you know a crap-ton more about dev so I'm glad it was you articulating the specifics
[23:39:52] <audioguy> Alway glad if even one other person agrees ;-)
[23:39:59] <drcoolbp> has anyone ever seen timezones denoted with the TZ-2 syntax?
[23:41:10] <drcoolbp> http://wiki.soylentnews.org that's what they are using
[23:41:29] <xlefay> thx drcoolbp, after the webmail I suppose the folders were created and imap started working ;-)
[23:41:46] <drcoolbp> yeah I have it on my phone now with threaded view
[23:41:55] * drcoolbp raises fist towards sky
[23:42:38] <audioguy> I think they are just indicating their time zone, UTC plus or minus how many hours.
[23:42:56] <drcoolbp> it's just a weird syntax
[23:43:04] <drcoolbp> should be UTC-2
[23:43:16] <audioguy> I am pretty sure is is just somwthing ad hoc someone started.
[23:43:20] <xlefay> drcoolbp: if you're working on the wiki anyway.. can you add Kobach to IRC?
[23:43:22] <drcoolbp> anyway /me is done being pedantic for now
[23:43:26] <drcoolbp> oh yah
[23:44:29] <drcoolbp> done
[23:44:44] <xlefay> Thank you, I'm sure kobach will be much obliged
[23:44:48] <xlefay> not sure why he isn't here....
[23:46:26] <drcoolbp> I have one guess what he's doing
[23:46:35] PropheciesWillBe is now known as Bender
[23:46:45] <xlefay> nooo
[23:46:46] <xlefay> don't start
[23:47:10] * drcoolbp was *trying* to start in #soylent
[23:48:51] <FatPhil> "TZ" means "timezone", "-2" means "-2". There really isn't much margin for misunderstanding
[23:50:31] <audioguy> Ah, FatPhil would like a chat.
[23:50:46] <audioguy> I mena, I would like a chat.
[23:50:47] <FatPhil> is that a statement or a question?
[23:50:49] <audioguy> mean
[23:51:00] <FatPhil> fire away
[23:51:06] <audioguy> Its my blasted by typing
[23:51:28] <FatPhil> I'm getting totally pissed off with perl sockets, so won't wind down for quite a while
[23:51:54] <FatPhil> just reading your long mail. Interesting. I agree with many of your points.
[23:51:55] <audioguy> Haven't really had a chance to get to know you. I know you have some perl skills, could you let me know approximately how far those extend?
[23:52:26] <FatPhil> been doing it as $DAYJOB for 20 years
[23:52:33] <audioguy> 'Lomg email' ;-) Wait till you actually see a 'long email' from me. ;-)
[23:52:52] <audioguy> So how comfortable are you with slash code?
[23:53:04] -!- kobach [kobach!~nope@Soylent/Staff/IRC/kobach] has joined #staff
[23:53:04] -!- mode/#staff [+v kobach] by FortuneTeller
[23:53:04] <FatPhil> I think perl's OO is a fucking abomination
[23:53:12] <kobach> drcoolbp: not here because i dont need to be :)
[23:53:31] <kobach> you know where to find me
[23:53:32] <FatPhil> So don't like slashcode, but I can probably dive into it as well as anyone can
[23:53:58] -!- kobach [kobach!~nope@Soylent/Staff/IRC/kobach] has parted #staff
[23:53:59] <FatPhil> it'll probably take a while to work out how it all relates to each other
[23:54:16] <audioguy> Abomination or not, do you feel confident enough to make changes in the core modeules, etc. ?
[23:54:46] <FatPhil> small changes, yes, big changes not yet
[23:54:48] <xlefay> Isn't there a CPAN module one can use to create some graphs of what's being called, etc, or so during runtime?
[23:55:02] <FatPhil> xlefay: there are probably 20
[23:55:22] <audioguy> xlefay: that is exactly the kind of things I do not know about perl, that I am hoping FatPhil does.
[23:55:27] <xlefay> aah, might be useful to look into those and see if that can help shed more light into slashcode ;)
[23:55:58] <FatPhil> There's Devel::Cover, but I've never used it.
[23:56:35] <audioguy> FatPhil: My problem is that I am a programmer, but not a perl programmer. Ican follow the basics and have been poring over the code tracing its pathes, but lose it when it gets to some specific perl syntax and idioms.
[23:56:35] <xlefay> audioguy: I'm just afraid it'll be a waste of time, as far as I know there hasn't been a vote whether we'll use a slash instance for staff..
[23:57:46] <audioguy> xlefay: there has not, but there have been a number of people wanting to try it. Getting that working is providing good general information that will be usefulin other contexts as well
[23:58:20] * drcoolbp notes you could be having this discussion in dev....
[23:58:23] <drcoolbp> gotta run guys
[23:58:25] <drcoolbp> later
[23:58:27] -!- drcoolbp has quit []
[23:58:33] <audioguy> So FatPhil are you pretty familiar with the Apache modeul, and how it workd with modperl?
[23:58:49] <audioguy> works
[23:58:57] <xlefay> Perhaps it would be better to make an overview what Slash can offer versus other methods?
[23:59:24] <FatPhil> not yet. I've done some mod_perl things in the past.