#soylent | Logs for 2026-02-03
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[01:11:12] <c0lo> Boy, am I old or what? No vi/emacs flames, everybody is Notepad++-ing?
[01:58:30] <progo> I use VS Code as by big fat editor. it's not perfect, but it does CUA keybindings by default. I tried to learn Vim and Emacs a few times. never got into them
[01:59:13] <progo> I'm 46 years old. 10 or 15 years ago a wise old hacker in another IRC channel told me: she uses Emacs every day; it's a hot mess; and I shouldn't learn it.
[02:00:52] <progo> for years I've been using notepad2 forks and then notepad4, for windows. much better than notepad++ and doesn't have an updater I think. doesn't update out of the box and doesn't nag me
[02:26:13] <c0lo> No kink-shaming, some like hot messes (and/or being nagged).
[03:47:47] <chromas> When modernized emacs fork?
[03:49:14] <chromas> rewrite it in rust but with modernities like javascript configs and css for terminals
[03:51:29] <ted-ious> Isn't neovim a modern implimentation of vi with lua as the configuration language?
[03:52:02] <chromas> yeah, so we need to do the same with emacs
[03:52:14] <chromas> rustmax
[03:55:09] <chromas> (or dmax ;) )
[04:44:24] <progo> lol! I just found an Emacs fork that tracks upstream and adds rust to the core and scripting in Deno/Typescript https://github.com
[04:44:27] <systemd> ^ 03GitHub - emacs-ng/emacs-ng: A new approach to Emacs - Including TypeScript, Threading, Async I/O, and WebRender.
[04:44:38] <progo> so yes someone has considered rewriting in Rust
[04:55:51] <chromas> okay, new nonsense idea: rewrite C in Rust
[04:56:56] <chromas> heh, looked it up to see if someone did it. found a whole page full of people who dunnit
[04:57:55] <progo> have you seen how much Lunduke hates Rust?
[04:58:22] <progo> I watch most of his videos. sometimes he talks about frivolous Rust rewrites and argues they're fixing a thing that isn't broken
[04:59:02] <progo> lately he's been bitching about some projects like "Org gave Project half a million dollars to shore up Component. And they rewrote it in Rust. Not that I hate Rust, but I hate Rust and this is a stupid waste of money."
[04:59:05] <chromas> Somewhere a mod just banned you for saying his name
[04:59:20] * progo runs!
[05:00:32] <chromas> Yeah there was one about Germany paying someone to rewrite something in rust, like they're trying to inject rust into something, but really it's just money they're handing out to people who sign up, and the person who signed up for that project just wanted to use rust
[05:01:00] <progo> that's the story I was thinking of, and didn't know that angle of it
[05:01:09] <progo> his argument, such as it was on that story, seemed weak
[05:01:26] <chromas> arch pacman rewrite I think
[05:01:31] <progo> it really felt like "we don't like how Component is working, so we're rewriting. with Rust"
[05:01:41] <progo> ah
[05:01:47] <progo> either that or also a more recent one
[05:02:21] <chromas> ah, I haven't heard that one yet then
[05:02:44] <progo> I'm looking at his video index now…
[05:02:47] <chromas> I only watch some of his vids, when they're suggested by the tube
[05:03:09] <progo> https://www.youtube.com oh yeah a Wayland compositor for XFCE
[05:03:25] <progo> IIRC they don't HAVE their own compositor they can twiddle internally like Plasma and Gnome have
[05:03:29] <chromas> I tried going back to suse. It should be the most engineered distro, being German and all, but they have some oddities, which makes sense, being German and all
[05:03:33] <progo> so… why NOT Rust?
[05:03:59] <chromas> ah. I hear something about an xfce compositor
[05:04:23] <progo> my work laptop is currently half bricked
[05:04:25] <progo> Kubuntu 24.04
[05:04:38] <chromas> I was using labwc for lxqt
[05:04:42] <progo> Sunday night: regular routine OS package upgrades… now Plasma Wayland session locks the whole system during login
[05:04:47] <progo> I'm on X11 for now
[05:04:59] <progo> considering moving to Fedora's immutable Plasma distro
[05:05:11] <progo> that would also upgrade me to Plasma 6 from 5
[05:05:29] <progo> I have to learn it in a VM first, make sure I can set it up how I'm used to
[05:05:44] <chromas> I tried the suse kde immutable distro. pretty noice except for the whole flatpaks thing
[05:06:15] <progo> meanwhile, on X11: if I try to share screen in Teams under Chromium, ALL Chromium processes on all profiles just evaporate in a puff of logic
[05:06:26] <progo> this is my laptop for my job
[05:06:35] <chromas> Logic? In Chromium? No way!
[05:06:58] <progo> (all processes, profiles: I have a lot of web apps open, usually.)
[05:07:46] <progo> my free intern ChatGPT assures me I can use VirtManager and KVM under Fedora's immutable distros
[05:07:53] <progo> (will need that for work)
[05:08:20] <chromas> I have a TigerVNC server running a virtual X server in a container, then I can connect to it with TigerVNC on any PC, so it's like a virtual machine. I can stretch the VNC window and it resizes the desktop to match. Haven't seen that work with any other VNC, and I wonder if such a thing could be done in wayland
[05:08:53] <progo> Wayland is still figuring out remote access.
[05:09:11] <progo> but don't worry, they've already cancelled Xorg. so that means Wayland is ready
[05:09:28] <progo> don't tell anyone about X11Libre that Lunduke is promoting
[05:11:03] <chromas> C A N C E L E D
[05:11:12] * chromas cancels in your general direction!
[05:11:41] <progo> all of my headless VMs on my server that have a desktop do not run Wayland. because I haven't the faintest idea how to get started for that
[05:11:50] <chromas> I wonder how much work it would be to make a new display server from scratch, with a socket for X connections and one for Wayland
[05:12:27] <chromas> @grok, make this plz
[05:12:33] <progo> I think there's a server being built which is mostly an X server but it runs Wayland clients natively
[05:12:37] <progo> or that's the goal
[05:12:45] <progo> it is neither X11Libre nor Wayland
[05:12:54] <progo> and it might be a Rust project :^)
[05:13:50] <progo> Wayland seems to be a mess of 3/4 settled specs
[05:14:02] <progo> and X11 is a mess of technical debt
[05:14:32] <chromas> Is it though? Just toss out any extensions nobody uses anymore
[05:14:59] <progo> the X11Libre lead seems determined to distill it down to what's needed and what works
[05:15:19] <chromas> Hope he goes far with it
[05:15:54] <progo> me too
[05:16:02] <chromas> or at the very least, the wayland guys should just ignore that one guhnome guy and we'd have Wayland Nirvana with twonicorns and rainbows
[05:19:03] <chromas> WaleX
[05:21:19] <chromas> hm youtube won't work for me now
[05:21:26] <chromas> =yt the website is down
[05:21:43] <progo> I use Brave for YouTube. built in ad blocker always keeps up with YouTube
[05:21:46] <systemd> Search failed: Could not resolve hostname on handle 55B6633DE610 (std/net/curl.d: 4453)
[05:22:11] <progo> still working for me right now, in New York City
[05:22:43] <progo> I have about a dozen Ungoogled Chromium profiles for everything else
[05:22:54] <ted-ious> Whenever you see a large amount of government money being spent on something that looks atupid consider it money laundering until proven otherwise.
[05:23:17] <progo> there's a lot of that being discussed in USA apparently
[05:23:51] <progo> my wife and my cat have decided it's bed time here. bye all
[05:24:58] <chromas> g'noight
[05:32:09] <chromas> aha. forgot dns rule in firewall
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[19:19:46] <Ingar> Wayland only replaces a part of X11, and all the holes are left dangling
[19:20:15] <Ingar> chromas: I have an X11 desktop vm with XRDP
[19:20:43] <Ingar> it does the resize thingy as well
[20:38:04] <progo> I thought it was chads that dangled. how does a hole dangle?
[20:39:09] <progo> I asked ChatGPT for help with my borked Ubuntu and long story short: to fix today, I either replaced nouveau with a recent 'nvidia-*-open' driver shipped from Ubuntu, or reinstalled it after it got removed for an unknown reason. Plasma + Wayland is working again now for me on Kubuntu 24.04. phew!
[20:40:09] <progo> I need to start doing weekly backups of the whole system (with "~" in a separate backup set for convenient) and learn how to do a full restore from that
[20:41:42] <progo> Ingar I switched to Wayland for a few reasons, including social pressure from the powers that be; and my laptop has a built-in 1080p panel and an external 4k 27 inch display, and switching those is a PITA in X11 + Plasma. have to either manually adjust stuff every time or learn how to bash script it
[20:41:53] <progo> definitely not a fully happy customer on Wayland
[20:56:01] <AlwaysNever> speaking of X11, there is a new project to write a new, legacy-free, modern X11 server, written in Zig and called "Phoenix": https://news.ycombinator.com
[20:56:03] <systemd> ^ 03Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig
[20:57:12] <AlwaysNever> XLibre is just X.org forked and therefore XLibre carries all the legacy bagage of X.org/XFree86
[20:59:21] <AlwaysNever> I personally don't care much about Linux GUI, and when it comes to it then I'm content with MATE (which dictates X11, for now at least; I don't care about Wayland one way or the other).
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