#soylent | Logs for 2025-02-18
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[00:07:08] <c0lo> =submit https://www.engadget.com
[00:07:09] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Arm is Reportedly Developing its Own in-House Chip" (1p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[00:07:21] <chromas> c0lo++
[00:07:21] <bender> c0lo: 51
[00:07:40] <chromas> Thanks for the subs :)
[00:08:11] <c0lo> :thumbs-up:
[00:08:24] <chromas> 👍
[00:08:34] <c0lo> that one, yes.
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[06:43:07] <kline> Hello, world
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[06:43:37] -!- mode/#soylent [+o chromas] by Imogen
[06:44:54] <janrinok> mornin'
[06:45:00] <chromas> g'day
[06:45:09] <janrinok> how's things?
[06:45:21] <chromas> kliney
[06:46:04] <janrinok> :D
[07:03:49] <halibut> I thought you meant Klein-y (as in Klein bottle) for some reason. I am slow, but I figured it out eventually.
[07:04:20] <chromas> calvin klein bottle underwear
[07:04:49] <halibut> You can wear them forwards, backwards, inside-out, and back to front, all at the same time.
[07:05:13] <halibut> ... but you cannot remove them in only 3-dimensions.
[07:41:05] <c0lo> "I love to poorly educated" - their vote count as much as yours
[07:41:06] <c0lo> https://www.youtube.com
[07:41:06] <c0lo> https://www.youtube.com
[07:41:08] <systemd> ^ 03DUMB Students Can't Answer EXTREMELY BASIC Questions!
[07:41:08] <systemd> ^ 03Iain Dale goes toe-to-toe with callers on the Ukraine war
[08:31:41] <c0lo> =submit https://www.nature.com Highest energy cosmic neutrino so far 120PeV (120e+15eV)
[08:32:48] <c0lo> =submit https://www.nature.com
[08:32:52] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Record-Breaking Neutrino is Most Energetic Ever Detected" (7p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[08:33:34] <chromas> I bet the + ruined the first attempt
[08:33:38] <systemd> c0lo, 04submit failed: HTTP request returned status code 413 ()
[08:34:01] * chromas blames ari
[08:34:55] <c0lo> ari413
[08:35:16] * chromas put the comment into the sub notes
[08:35:35] <c0lo> (ari413 works if not submitted)
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[10:52:49] <Ingar> klein means small in Dutch, somewhat changes your view on Calvin Klein underwear
[10:54:00] <fab23> same in German :)
[10:57:29] <Ingar> der kleine Klaus und der grosse Klaus
[10:57:56] <Ingar> I even forgot how that story went
[11:06:26] <fab23> hm, I even don't know this story at all.
[11:16:02] <chromas> apparently it protects your tiny infinite bottle
[11:16:26] <chromas> or in Bri'ish, bu'ole
[11:53:26] <Ingar> hence a klein bottle is a craniorectal inversion
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[13:41:19] -!- mode/#soylent [+v chromas] by Imogen
[14:00:58] <Fnord666> =cite
[14:01:31] <Fnord666> systemd where are you?
[14:04:17] <Fnord666> Turn about is fair play? https://local12.com
[15:13:40] <drussell> It looks like systemd died about the same time that the site became unresponsive to me for a minute or two (no 500 error, just no response at all, server connection timeout) and I got knocked off IRC...
[15:14:19] <drussell> I was on the website via IPv6 and connected to IRC via IPv4
[15:28:21] <drussell> https://www.youtube.com
[15:28:27] <drussell> ^ New video: Dramatic video shows plane crashing and flipping over in Toronto
[15:28:42] <Fnord666> Interesting. Thanks for the info. I see chromas got timed out as well. I think the bot runs on his systems so that makes sense.
[15:29:11] <drussell> Yeah, just figured I would mention it since it all seemed to occur at the same time.
[15:29:58] <Fnord666> Thanks.
[15:44:45] <janrinok> I have noticed this 'semi-crash' several times now. It occurs between 1300-1330 UTC, and lasts a couple of minutes. Perhaps there is a very large job going on (a backup maybe?) that ties the db up for a few minutes. I know that kolie looked at the logs and found nothing untoward so, for the moment, it is still a mystery.
[15:45:59] <janrinok> I you have any additional information (perhaps I am only seeing it at that time because I am not on when it happens at other times?) then please let me know. It is not everyday but it is frequent enough to be an irritation.
[15:46:42] <drussell> This time it wasn't the usual slow database issue, this was a total lack of connectivity.
[16:04:52] <janrinok> It is the same for me. The system hasn't crashed but, for a short period, it seems unable to respond
[16:10:45] <drussell> Well, I see that relatively often also, but in this case there was not even a response to a ping. No traffic passing through at all. It doesn't usually act like that when I see it do it's hiccup thing.
[16:17:26] <kolie> Yea I see some logs on the cogent switch showing no traffic.
[16:17:44] <kolie> let me check the times...
[16:18:07] <kolie> 5:20 AM PST to 5:35AM PST
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[17:59:44] <ted-ious> https://www.youtube.com
[18:02:50] <drussell> Yeah, saw that one already when it came out, can't wait for his analysis of the Toronto smooshismash
[18:03:11] <drussell> That video showing the actual crash that I posted above is informative...
[18:03:34] <drussell> Looks like it was a pretty hard landing, might well have been a main gear collapse on one side, I think
[18:03:57] <drussell> https://www.youtube.com
[18:04:31] <drussell> At least everyone survived... Even the couple people in hospital with "critical injuries" are non-life-threatening...
[18:04:44] <drussell> ... so all 80 on board people survived
[18:05:10] <ted-ious> It's amazing.
[18:06:01] <drussell> Most of the injuries were from people dropping down from the now-ceiling to the now-floor in a hurry, trying to get the fuck out of there
[18:06:47] <drussell> Mostly just a few scrapes and bruises and one hell of a story to be able to tell for the rest of their lives...
[19:13:50] <Fnord666> To my untrained eye he looked high and had a pretty serious descent rate. The report will be telling as well as the black box data.
[19:22:41] <drussell> According to the last radar data before it gets lost due to low altitude, they were at 1024 feet per minute, which is well above the normal 500-750'/min for that aircraft...
[19:22:53] <drussell> Supposedly... :)
[19:23:07] <drussell> I have not independently verified those numbers
[19:24:33] <drussell> ... but I heard some pilot say that descent rate is more like you would expect for a fighter jet landing on an aircraft carrier than a CRJ landing on a standard glide slope approach, especially with potentially snowy runway conditions
[19:27:18] <drussell> On the video of the crash, they don't appear to be stuggling against any crosswinds, although there is always the possiblity of crazy windshear trying to smoosh them into the ground on approach... That is always still an unsolved issue in aviation
[19:27:34] <drussell> struggling
[19:32:59] <drussell> To me, it doesn't appear to just be alack of flare at the final moment (potentially caused by wind shear trying to push them downwards) but rather a steep, unstabilized descent all the way in, for wahetevr reason...
[19:33:49] <drussell> Since the pilots are alive, it should hopefully be realitively easy to correlate their account with the data and voice recorders to discern what transpired...
[19:35:55] <drussell> Unfortunately, because they are alive, it may be quite some time before much actual information is revealed since there will be pilots' union and the company involved with trying to save face if there is a likelyhood of pilot error or whatnot...
[19:38:01] <Fnord666> Too true.
[19:39:35] <Fnord666> I'm pretty sure passenger jets are not meant to smack down very hard onto the tarmac.I'm just thankful that there weren't any fatalities.
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[19:45:28] <c0lo> We love our crocodiles, don't blame them https://www.youtube.com
[19:51:31] <drussell> Interestingly, the descent down to 575' or whatever the last recorded radar return was doesn't really look any steeper than the previous day of the same route in a different CRJ900, but that doesn't tell you what happened after that last recorded radar return... Who knows, at this point...
[19:51:37] <drussell> https://www.flightradar24.com
[19:54:31] <drussell> The previous day's data goes all the way to 0' and it looks like they were at about 700'/min average during the last minute, but the exact shape of those last few hundred feet on the graph is really the important part, I suppose...
[19:55:50] <drussell> The crash flight data simply stops at 575' and 110 kt on flightradar24
[19:56:25] <kolie> That toronto flight he is fucking hot into the ground, zero flair.
[19:56:49] <kolie> Has to be either pilot optical illusion thining hes higher or i think more likely, low level wind shear / gust.
[19:57:42] <drussell> Indeed.
[19:58:28] <kolie> The tower audio calls out wind 28 gusting mid 30s
[19:58:29] <Fnord666> Wouldn't there be a tower advisory regarding wind shear if it was happening?
[19:59:02] <drussell> They were flying a bit slow, too... The previous day the plane was still at 128 kt at 525 feet vs 110 kt at 575 feet for the crash aircraft
[19:59:11] <Fnord666> or does that only happen after the first aircraft experiences it and reports it?
[19:59:18] <kolie> groundspped ?
[19:59:37] <drussell> Wind shear is very difficult to detect most of the time, unfortunately
[19:59:40] <kolie> Fnord666, aircraft wont know the actual winds, they are relying on feeling and reports from meteorlogical stations
[19:59:48] <Fnord666> Hopefully that is reported AIS.
[19:59:52] <kolie> And wind shear by the vary definition is variable and intermittant.
[20:00:04] <kolie> ATIS would report the gusting conditions, but its also point in time.
[20:00:08] <Fnord666> Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.
[20:00:18] <drussell> Yes, I think ground speed (not sure, for sure LOL), but what the wind was doing obviously plays a factor..
[20:00:28] <Fnord666> Or IAS I mean.
[20:00:31] <kolie> Tower is going to give the most immediate winds, but its, you know just because tower said its 30-50 last report, it can be 10-20 right now.
[20:00:52] <Fnord666> dyslexic fingers
[20:01:01] <kolie> The pirep/pilot reports, those are going to be "Fuck that crosswind was maxed in my 737 and hairy as balls"
[20:01:23] <kolie> You see that, you kind of know, well hes a big dude and can handle it and hes browning his shorts, probably not going to attempt it.
[20:01:31] <Fnord666> I wonder what the stall speed is on that particular jet.
[20:02:00] <kolie> was it a crj 900?
[20:02:12] <Fnord666> Yeah that would definitely be an indicator to try somewhere else.
[20:02:21] <kolie> landing config, ~100kts
[20:02:27] <Fnord666> That's what has been stated above.
[20:03:03] <Fnord666> Ok so still decently above stall if that's indicated air speed.
[20:03:19] <Fnord666> Assuming he was in proper landing config.
[20:04:18] <kolie> Looking at the video, he looks properly configuraed, flaps are good, hes established, he's coming in pretty quick but it looks more or less like hes not in stall sitation to my eyes.
[20:05:17] <kolie> my asshole puckers waiting for the rounding.
[20:05:55] <kolie> It reminds me of doing short field landings for the first time, its not gentle, you relatively "slam" it down.
[20:06:26] <kolie> I had the same oh shit ground why are we doing this rn feeling haha
[20:06:37] <Fnord666> That's why you fly something with a stall speed of 60 knots or so. Makes those landings easier.
[20:08:25] <Fnord666> or, for the aeronca chief, 33 knots
[20:08:43] <drussell> Obviously exact stall speed varies depending on conditions like weight, but doesn't this say that at full flaps 45, at 55,000 lbs (light) you should still be at 121 kt?
[20:08:47] <drussell> https://drive.google.com
[20:09:15] <drussell> I followed the link to that pdf from here:
[20:09:17] <drussell> https://community.infiniteflight.com
[20:09:34] <kolie> so thats going to be 1.3 times stall speed
[20:09:43] <kolie> it's the approach speed essentually
[20:09:49] <drussell> Right....
[20:09:50] <kolie> it changes for wind condition and gross weight.
[20:10:03] <kolie> vREF is not where you stall
[20:10:13] <drussell> So if they were down to 110kt already at 575' that would be getting pretty slow by the time they got to the ground, no?
[20:10:32] <drussell> The previous day the flight landed at 128
[20:10:43] <kolie> Hard to say without more context.
[20:10:48] <drussell> Indeed.
[20:10:59] <kolie> It's not immediately alarming.
[20:11:12] <kolie> I can think of valid reasons why they'd be lower than vREF
[20:11:30] <kolie> And I'm also not sure what any of deltas SOPs are.
[20:11:52] <drussell> Indeed...
[20:12:03] <kolie> Commercial is its own world, and each airline really does things how they want to do it, inside of the planse themselves, they do fly them differently.
[20:13:16] <kolie> I'd bet these pilots weren't negligent, and it was more just, flying close to the edge of viable and enough happened to make it the wrong day to be on that plane.
[20:13:40] <kolie> That helicopter incident was - so many wtfs.
[20:13:50] <Fnord666> Yes it was.
[20:13:55] <drussell> Agreed on both. Yes.
[20:13:58] <kolie> This is like, ehhh, shit happens man lol.
[20:14:27] <kolie> We will see with this toronto one, I'm eager to see the preliminary.
[20:14:36] <kolie> NTSB has been really good about getting those out.
[20:15:43] -!- AlwaysNever [AlwaysNever!~usuario1@69.red-49-04-670.staticip.rima-tde.net] has parted #soylent
[20:21:32] <Fnord666> Don't worry, our AI pilots and self flying jets will fix all of these issues, right?
[20:22:04] <kolie> Easier than self driving cars imo.
[20:23:55] <Fnord666> But can they handle the "not routine" things that might happen? And of course assuming they aren't dependent on a single sensor input from a sensor known to fail.
[20:24:11] <Fnord666> Built by the lowest bidder y'all.
[20:24:39] <kolie> haha the real measure is - can they do better than the current meat bag system
[20:25:14] <kolie> I wanna siri driving after a tequila bender
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[20:26:09] <Fnord666> Fair point re the meat bags.
[20:26:34] <kolie> i wanna know how they are going to work out the liability system
[20:26:46] <kolie> easy to blame the driver rn, makes it pretty clean.
[20:26:55] <Fnord666> So siri running on a system built with chips that were purchased on ebay and may or may not actually meet specs?
[20:27:26] <Fnord666> Or were sweepings off of the factory floor.
[20:27:37] <kolie> haha
[20:29:19] <Fnord666> Sure, they're 50% cheaper but you have to buy 3x as many to get enough ones that are functional.
[20:33:47] <chromas> nah they'll be using alibaba
[20:44:48] <Fnord666> Or Temu but the chips will all be non-standard size.
[21:50:17] <kolie> From an alleged previous CRJ-900 pilot with the airline "I no longer fly for Endeavor, but when I did, our maximum speed additive for wind in normal operations was Vref+10, not +20"
[22:00:57] <kolie> if your in windows and its windspeed gusting +10, you generally take half the gust and add it onto your normal approach spped as a rule of thumb
[22:01:11] <kolie> So if vREF is 120, its gusting +10, you fly 125
[22:03:06] <kolie> 115kt groundspped, airspeed 135kts vref for crj-900, decent shouldnt exceed 1000ft/min, at 1450 they were at -928 worst, speed was holding and the rate was anywhere from 500-900 from 1500-500 ft
[22:03:15] <kolie> It looks super stable if they are on vREF
[22:03:53] <kolie> vREF +5-+20 would be max according to this, thsi guy is saying they'd only do +10.
[22:04:40] <kolie> ADSb looks like a good glide slope, and stable decent.
[22:04:59] <kolie> Slight drift left of centerline.
[22:05:22] <kolie> they touched down just on the numbers, looks short to me.
[22:06:02] <kolie> If they were slipping for the wind correction, and left of centerline, could've added to putting down harder on the right gear.
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[23:09:20] <chromas> hm it actually killed tmux
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[23:52:57] <drussell> https://www.youtube.com
[23:53:00] <systemd> ^ 03Delta CRJ-900 Crash Toronto - 17 Feb. 2025
[23:53:16] <drussell> blancolirio
[23:54:21] <drussell> blancolirio++
[23:54:22] <bender> blancolirio: 1
[23:54:32] <drussell> lol
[23:54:45] <drussell> kolie++
[23:54:45] <bender> kolie: 28