#soylent | Logs for 2024-05-05
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[00:00:06] <AlwaysNever> they control the narrative and the means of its distribution
[00:00:30] <ted-ious> I'm sure that happens everywhere.
[00:01:04] <ted-ious> But you can find out the truth of what has been happening to boeing if you want to do some investigation.
[00:02:18] <AlwaysNever> So what's your point: Boeing failing because of political medling? or waht?
[00:03:17] <ted-ious> I'm sure there are lots of different problems inside the company that history will show caused it to fail if it eventually does.
[00:04:00] <ted-ious> But the quality control problems started when the company moved from the west coast to south carolina.
[00:04:20] <ted-ious> Things have been getting worse ever since.
[00:04:52] <ted-ious> If you haven't lived in various places in the usa it can be hard to appreciate.
[00:04:52] <AlwaysNever> So what's your point as to the cause?
[00:05:11] <AlwaysNever> speak up
[00:05:34] <ted-ious> But different regions have different kinds of people and very different work cultures.
[00:06:27] <AlwaysNever> aha, ok, so a quality of work induced problem, caused for different working aptitude in the workers themselves...
[00:06:39] <AlwaysNever> I don't think I buy that
[00:06:50] <AlwaysNever> workers have managers and supervisors
[00:06:52] <ted-ious> I worked for one company that had offices in new york and florida and in florida they hired 3 people for every open slot instead of 1 in new york.
[00:07:19] <ted-ious> Because one of them would never show up and the second one wouldn't still come in to work for more than 2 or 3 weeks.
[00:07:43] <ted-ious> You don't have to buy anything. :)
[00:07:45] <AlwaysNever> that might be true, but workers have managers and supervisors
[00:07:52] <ted-ious> I'm just telling you how it is over here.
[00:08:08] <AlwaysNever> managers and supervisors' jobs is to equalize for that
[00:08:43] <ted-ious> And you think they have magic wands to just make things work? :)
[00:09:12] <ted-ious> The current trend of millennials and gen z's ghosting jobs has been a known problem in the american south for decades.
[00:09:48] <ted-ious> Most of the skilled workers in south carolina were already working at bmw.
[00:10:01] <AlwaysNever> the inter-regional frictions are well known to me, applied to the Spanish case; they are ussually just political bullshit
[00:10:17] <AlwaysNever> scapegot explanations
[00:11:08] <ted-ious> I don't know what the spanish case is but here it is very much not a political problem when you can't get skilled machinists to work for you no matter how long you advertise the job.
[00:11:40] <ted-ious> Ok well I guess I can't help you understand conditions on the ground in corporate america.
[00:12:07] <AlwaysNever> good workers don't sprout out of thing air, they have to be nurtured from early school
[00:12:22] <AlwaysNever> so who has not been doing its job?
[00:13:05] <ted-ious> Blame it on the mba's if you want I guess.
[00:13:48] <AlwaysNever> the politians "managing" public affairs as if they where MBAs, same problem, same poor results
[00:13:49] <chromas> Multi-biscuit arrays
[00:15:56] <ted-ious> South carolina is nowhere near washington or oregon for literacy rates.
[00:16:19] <AlwaysNever> blaming Boeing's problems on Boeing's rank workers is just atrocious
[00:16:54] <ted-ious> Boeing made the stupid decision to move their operations to a state with a poor record of precision manufacturing.
[00:17:08] <ted-ious> They are seeing the consequences now.
[00:17:13] <AlwaysNever> MBA managers at Boeing made that decision
[00:17:57] <ted-ious> You can blame the mba's if you want but there were other factors that I imagine were 3-5 levels above that.
[00:18:20] <ted-ious> Including things above and outside of the company at the state and federal level.
[00:18:36] <AlwaysNever> other factors... ? can they be spoken in a couple on lines?
[00:19:19] <ted-ious> Corrupion and dirty government contracts and tax deals and I'm sure there are things that we will never hear about.
[00:19:40] <AlwaysNever> so in your opinion it all boils down to the Feds moving things around according to some partisan politial agenda...
[00:19:52] <ted-ious> Like I said nikki haley was a big part of it both while and after she was governor.
[00:19:57] <AlwaysNever> inter-regional disputes again rearing its head
[00:20:18] <ted-ious> No there are too many moving pieces besides just the feds.
[00:21:21] <AlwaysNever> So is Boeing a private company under the total control of the politicians? What kind of fascist ecnomy is that?
[00:22:06] <ted-ious> Welcome to the western corporate business sector.
[00:22:26] <ted-ious> Everything is complicated and everything is more corrupt than we will ever see.
[00:23:08] <ted-ious> If you think you know how corrupt things are just wait a few years and some more will leak out.
[00:24:03] <ted-ious> I don't know why you should be so defensive about boeing's work force either.
[00:24:32] <ted-ious> It's an open secret that workers routinely show up to work drunk or high.
[00:24:54] <ted-ious> South carolina is a very different place.
[00:25:26] <ted-ious> They should have known that it's not the best state to assemble high tech airplanes.
[00:26:07] <AlwaysNever> if worker show up drunk of high, their supervirors and managers are doing a poor job
[00:27:14] <AlwaysNever> a worker will to anything he can get away with, it's his manager's job to curate for the quality of the work which is deliverd
[00:27:26] <AlwaysNever> I sense an high dosis of inter-reginal hate
[00:29:58] <AlwaysNever> it's quite similar in Spain, there is the cliche of lazy Andalucian people, it's just interregional "hate"
[00:30:21] <AlwaysNever> workers will do anything if properly led
[00:30:59] <AlwaysNever> an individual worker can fail, but when a team of workers fail, it a management failure
[00:44:02] <ted-ious> What do you mean inter-reginal hate?
[00:50:03] <AlwaysNever> regions whose people think people from other regions are worst than them
[01:37:37] <ted-ious> Ok well it's objectively true that workers in southern states have lower productivity and worse work habits.
[01:37:54] <ted-ious> If you can't accept that I'm afraid I can't help you.
[02:14:32] <chromas> Especially California
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[03:52:39] <ted-ious> AlwaysNever: I found a possible source of more details you might like.
[03:52:51] <ted-ious> https://www.youtube.com
[03:52:52] <systemd> ^ 03Mentour Now!
[03:53:02] <ted-ious> https://www.youtube.com
[03:53:04] <systemd> ^ 03Boeing’s Downfall - Before the McDonnell Douglas Merger
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[04:17:09] <NotSanguine> Just a heads up -- the site's certificate has expired
[04:35:27] <chromas> It's our most recent tradition
[04:35:35] <ted-ious> People have been warning about it for days.
[04:37:08] <chromas> As is tradition
[04:39:29] <chromas> "He emphasized that the recent incidents were not related to flaws in construction processes or materials used in the planes, but were quality control issues among airline technicians."
[04:39:40] <chromas> See, you're just holding it wrong
[04:39:49] <chromas> https://www.slashgear.com
[04:39:49] <systemd> ^ 03Here's How To Tell When The Flight Crew Knows Something's Wrong, According To A Veteran Pilot - SlashGear
[04:54:41] <chromas> https://www.zerohedge.com
[04:54:42] <systemd> ^ 03"Reasons Unknown": Floating Russian Oil Base Off Greece Abruptly Shifts South
[06:55:45] -!- mrpg [mrpg!~Thunderbi@Soylent/Staff/Editor/mrpg] has joined #soylent
[06:55:45] -!- mode/#soylent [+v mrpg] by Imogen
[06:57:30] <chromas> https://www.youtube.com
[06:57:32] <systemd> ^ 03rickroll, but it never starts
[07:18:36] <Runaway> Funny thing - all the other browsers fail to load the site because of certs.
[07:18:48] <Runaway> Librewolf loads, and logs in, just fine.
[07:19:08] <chromas> probably ignores hsts
[07:19:27] <Runaway> Of course, others have mentioned that other text browsers do the same.
[07:21:00] <Runaway> Librewolf isn't using Secure SNI, I don't see anything else obviously different
[07:21:14] <Runaway> Is SNI related to HSTS?
[07:25:00] <chromas> Dunno. HSTS is a flag the website that says "if I fucked up then don't load my pages and don't let the user have control of his computer if he wants to load it anyhow"
[07:25:13] <chromas> =s secure sni
[07:25:15] <systemd> What is encrypted SNI? | How ESNI works - https://www.cloudflare.com
[07:25:53] <chromas> I don't see mention of hsts there but maybe they require it to work or something
[07:27:40] <Runaway> https://pq.cloudflareresearch.com
[07:27:41] <systemd> ^ 03Post-Quantum Key Agreement at Cloudflare
[07:27:57] <Runaway> https://www.cloudflare.com
[07:27:58] <systemd> ^ 03Cloudflare Browser Check | Cloudflare ( https://www.cloudflare.com )
[07:28:19] <Runaway> libre wolf passes all those tests, except the SNI
[07:28:20] <chromas> oh sheeit is that a relatively new buzzword?
[07:28:29] <chromas> I need to get me some post-quantum
[07:28:39] <chromas> put...put it on the blockchain
[07:29:28] <Runaway> Theoretical bullshit says post quantum requires a lot of quantum computer resources to break it - which is more bullshit than theory
[07:33:36] <Runaway> Anyone want a damn cheap clicky kind of keybaord? https://www.amazon.com
[07:34:04] <Runaway> I mean, it's not a genuine IBM clicky, but it's pretty damend nice, and eheap!
[07:35:11] <Runaway> I got the white one with blue switches as a freebie, I'm ordering the black one with brown switches and white lighting because I like it so much.
[07:35:51] <Runaway> It has a slightly "hollow" sound to it, but not real bad.
[07:36:10] <Ingar> ah konqueror ignores hsts, perfect
[07:36:23] <Ingar> stupid browsers
[07:36:26] <chromas> konqueror: chrome before chrome
[07:36:31] <chromas> also safari before safari
[07:37:03] <Ingar> sword of omen, sight beyond sight
[07:38:04] <Runaway> didn't webkit originate with konqueror? Or was webkit bolted on afterward?
[07:39:02] <chromas> yeah it was khtml
[07:39:17] <chromas> apple forked it into webkit, google used it, then they forked it into blink and whatever else
[07:39:40] <Ingar> I haven't used it in a while, but it looks quite nice these days
[07:39:42] <Ingar> fast
[07:40:01] <chromas> konqueror has an adblocker plugin but no umatrix equivalent :(
[07:40:07] <Ingar> there has been an age konqeuror would just crash if you threw any site at it
[07:41:22] <chromas> now everyone but firefox uses blink/webkit. kde is secretly watching you, even on windows
[07:41:56] <Runaway> Hell, I'm secretly watching me, even on Winblowz
[07:42:08] <chromas> #Metoo
[07:43:43] <Ingar> touched by the hand of goth
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[08:01:58] <chromas> oh neat. now when the bot gets OOMd the tmux window disappears with it hiding all the evidence
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[08:16:08] <Ingar> I have some spare DDR4
[08:19:18] <chromas> I just need to get off my butt...or on it, actually, and find ze bugz
[08:19:58] <chromas> at least systemd's nice enough to oom kill it before it drags the whole computer down since linux has never said no to an allocation in its life
[08:40:52] <janrinok> .op
[08:40:52] -!- mode/#soylent [+o janrinok] by Imogen
[08:41:29] janrinok changed topic of #soylent to: SN Main Channel | Keep discussions civil | https://soylentnews.org | We are aware that the SITE IS DOWN
[08:41:33] <janrinok> ./DEOP
[08:41:41] <janrinok> .deop
[08:41:41] -!- mode/#soylent [-o janrinok] by Imogen
[08:42:19] <janrinok> Well those reminders to AG didn't make much difference.....
[08:46:46] <Ingar> the site isn't down
[08:46:55] <Ingar> your browser just doesn't display it
[08:47:20] <Ingar> proof, use konqueror :D
[08:49:08] <Ingar> mm login doesnt work though
[08:49:12] <Ingar> or someone hacked my account
[08:49:27] <janrinok> I've got it displayed, thanks. But that doesn't help most of the community
[08:49:39] <janrinok> How do you know it was hacked?
[08:49:57] <Ingar> my password doesnt work!
[08:50:00] <janrinok> do you want me to reset your password?
[08:50:15] <Ingar> nah I'll try again once the cert business has been sorted
[08:50:27] <janrinok> OK
[08:50:49] <Ingar> my pw is unique for the site and randome garbage
[08:51:48] <Ingar> also, login uses nickname and not E-mail :-p
[08:52:20] <chromas> so now you're in?
[08:52:24] <Ingar> yeah
[08:52:44] <janrinok> Your account doesn't look like it has been hacked. If I reset your password you can always change it immediately to something that you would prefer.
[08:54:31] <Ingar> janrinok: it was PEBCAK
[08:54:44] <Ingar> it's sunday morning after all
[08:59:31] <janrinok> No problem - I had a lie in this morning as soon as I discovered that the certs had not been updated. Somebody has still tried to create a possible sock-puppet account though...
[09:13:07] <Ingar> writing in the journal doesnt seem to work though
[09:13:20] <Ingar> oh it did, jsut not on the main page
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[10:32:19] <janrinok> EVERYONE - Just open the site in a private window in whatever browser you use - you can over-ride the out-of-date certificates that way
[10:32:43] <janrinok> Look out - the circus is arriving in town
[10:32:50] <aristarchus> Only now, at the end, do you realize the true power of the janrinok way.
[10:39:19] <aristarchus> Site is down. Will it stay down this time? Or will khallow and Runaway rise from the dead to bore us to death, again? It's like déjà vu, all over again, as Yogi Berra said in Groundhog Day.
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[10:42:32] <janrinok> and there it goes again ....
[10:45:10] <janrinok> I wonder why he thinks I am responsible for leading the team? We have a Board and community reps plus a team of willing helpers to do that sort of thing.
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[12:16:21] <AlwaysNever> My Google Chrome does not let me bypass the :ERR_CERT_DATE_INVALID error, but my Firefox does let me bypass it
[12:17:20] <janrinok> AlwaysNever, does Chrome have private windows?
[12:19:17] <AlwaysNever> janrinok: Oh, I see, in Google Chrome in "incognito mode" I can bypass the error
[12:19:55] <AlwaysNever> spoke too soon, no I cannot by pass it in incognito mode in Chrome
[12:20:34] <AlwaysNever> aha, I managed it:
[12:20:46] <AlwaysNever> yes, it works in incognito mode
[12:23:31] <AlwaysNever> so why is it not configured the Certbot's cron job to do it autorenew thing?
[12:26:04] <janrinok> Because the current configuration is bodged and undocumented. It is not under our control yet and we only have one sysadmin with full access at present. He has a life to live too and currently is busy. The entire thing will be rebuilt once the existing SN transfers to the new SN.
[12:27:13] <AlwaysNever> Is there an ETA for that transfer?
[12:29:18] <janrinok> only a week or two now we hope - the delay has been the bureaucracy of creating our own company
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[14:36:35] <fab23> ted-ious, AlwaysNever and chromas: Cory Doctorow recently had a nice writeup what went wrong with Boeing -> https://pluralistic.net
[14:36:36] <systemd> ^ 03Pluralistic: Boeing’s deliberately defective fleet of flying sky-wreckage (01 May 2024) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow
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[15:29:59] <janrinok> fab23, that is a very interesting article
[15:45:31] <fab23> janrinok: and scary, don't board any newer Boeing planes.
[15:46:17] <janrinok> nope!
[15:47:16] <janrinok> If what is written is true, there must be some very high level covering up taking place. This has got to include some part of the government.
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[18:25:01] <chromas> It has to be true because we like his opinions on other topics
[18:52:54] <janrinok> :)
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[22:48:45] <chromas> Vote for me as Dictator for Life, and I'll enforce a standardized procedure for microwave oven operation
[22:49:17] <ted-ious> You've got my vote.
[22:49:58] <chromas> Does pressing 2 type a 2? Or does it instantly start running for 2 minutes? NO MORE!!
[22:50:16] <ted-ious> Oh wait.
[22:50:25] <ted-ious> I like the instant start feature.
[22:53:54] <chromas> Well we can't have both
[22:54:24] <chromas> When you press Start with no time, does it add one minute or thirty secs?
[22:54:25] <ted-ious> Looks like your job might be harder than you expected.
[22:54:32] <chromas> We need standards, people!
[22:54:45] <ted-ious> Is that really a feature too??
[22:55:09] <chromas> Yeah, go press it right now
[22:56:30] <chromas> Hm, but do I go the guhnome route and take away all the features, or the kaidee ee route and have all the features with endless menus?
[22:57:06] <chromas> as dictator, I say, first one, then the other. And they'd better be changed instantly or else death be upon the engineers
[22:58:06] <ted-ious> I have decided to withdraw my vote and run against you in the election.
[22:58:50] <chromas> to the gulag!
[22:58:52] <ted-ious> I won't be campaigning or putting in any effort to win but I will accept donations and bribes.
[22:59:22] <chromas> you want your microwave oven to operate differently from your neighbor's?
[22:59:53] <ted-ious> Nikki haley is my running mate and chris christie will be character assasinating you on my behalf.
[23:00:10] <ted-ious> No I just want the free money.
[23:00:58] <chromas> I have reason to believe my opponent has secretly claimed to have incriminating evidence related to the Clinton family
[23:04:25] <ted-ious> Hmm my start button doesn't do anything by itself.
[23:04:56] <chromas> See? Yet another option. There's no consistency. Things need to change
[23:04:58] <ted-ious> As soon as I collect all my campaign donations I will withdraw and endorse my competitor.
[23:16:57] <chromas> I'll get my bank buddies to boost your campaign with donations made of free inflation-created moneys
[23:18:07] <ted-ious> I assume the credit card companies are involved too which is how they can push thru thousands of $20 donations per hour from accounts that only do political donations.
[23:29:55] <drussell> The start button should never do anything all by itself. That's just STUPID!
[23:30:32] <chromas> it should at least open the start menu
[23:31:00] <drussell> Microwave start button. Windows is another complete disaster of a UI... :)
[23:31:30] <drussell> Good lord, my little brother microwaved a whole can of coffee grounds when he was about three, and that required twisting a mechanical timer knob backwards to 59:something and pressing start
[23:31:33] <chromas> Microwave Windows 96
[23:32:05] <drussell> It was smouldering when I smelled it from downstairs! My mom was playing the piano and my sister and I were home for lunch from elementary school...
[23:32:30] <drussell> I went upstairs and he had a chair up in front of the microwave, looking into the window of sparking and smoldering
[23:32:47] <drussell> I stopped it and ran downstairs to tell my mom...
[23:32:52] <drussell> Good lord, that stunk...
[23:33:18] <drussell> She took the smouldering can out to the front porch.. My sister and I could smell it all the way back to the school!
[23:33:28] <chromas> yeah coffee's gross
[23:33:38] <drussell> ... and that was like 1km from our house
[23:34:04] <drussell> Burning ground coffee certainly is, yes!
[23:34:48] <drussell> It was smouldering in little "briquette" shapes! very weird looking
[23:35:14] <drussell> The microwave survived, though.... :) It's a like 1979 Panasonic.
[23:35:28] <drussell> I think I still have it somewhere in one of my sea-cans
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[23:42:58] * DarkHelmet check #topic
[23:43:02] <DarkHelmet> ah
[23:43:22] <chromas> apparently Konqueror and other off-brand browsers will still load the site
[23:43:56] <chromas> Probably not much to read at the moment, though
[23:43:58] <DarkHelmet> still offering vm/hosting if it can be used
[23:44:15] <chromas> What happens if we go over your helmet though?
[23:44:24] * chromas covers up
[23:44:41] <DarkHelmet> ARIN?
[23:45:01] <DarkHelmet> idk, i mean it's all my IP space and I pay my colo, so who know
[23:45:34] <DarkHelmet> just indemnify me from your actions
[23:46:16] <DarkHelmet> can't afford to fight another SLAPP suit
[23:46:24] <chromas> https://www.youtube.com
[23:46:26] <systemd> ^ 03You Went Over My Helmet?!
[23:47:23] <DarkHelmet> i see your schwartz is as big as mine
[23:48:29] <DarkHelmet> SEE: Jews in SPACE!
[23:48:45] <DarkHelmet> wait, that's a different movie
[23:53:11] <chromas> yeah that was rise of skywalker
[23:55:10] <DarkHelmet> https://www.youtube.com
[23:55:12] <systemd> ^ 03Jews in Space