#soylent | Logs for 2024-03-30

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[00:19:44] <ted-ious> Oh are you a former left leaning person too?
[00:38:04] <schestowitz[TR]> not entirely sure how to interpret such a remark, so would not comment on it, but instead say what actually happened, including years of doxing and hate crimes in our IRC network (we opened cases about this in British police)
[00:39:56] <schestowitz[TR]> one of these people now defames janrinok (i won't link to that)
[00:43:20] <ted-ious> Oh sorry I thought this was another case of leftists attacking their former friends.
[00:43:40] <schestowitz[TR]> it has nothing to do with wings
[00:44:09] <schestowitz[TR]> it is about sabotaging FOSS-sympathetic online platforms and communities
[00:44:12] <ted-ious> I don't know much about this aristarchus person but he seems to be some kind of antifa fanatic who sees nazi's hiding in every shadow.
[00:44:46] <ted-ious> I see.
[00:46:06] <ted-ious> Well one thing I have noticed after being called all of those horrible things is that only one of those wings seems to hate the idea of free speech and people asking legitimate questions.
[00:46:37] <ted-ious> I hope they're not attacking foss in general now too.
[00:47:16] <chromas> Any mention of HOSTS files or Delphi?
[00:47:27] <chromas> Or opera 12
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[01:34:38] <aristarchus> You are really dating yourself, chromas!   Maybe you can give some advice to Jan, and tell Roy to stop being such a Hosehead.
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[02:06:29] <chromas> "With all of that having been said and now out of the way, it is important to note that spam and malicious emails along with bulk emails were all part of this category. "
[02:06:56] <chromas> I'm pretty sure I've read that first half on another article recently. Are people writing the news with templates?
[02:07:54] <chromas> Need to turn up the Creativity index in gpt
[02:08:16] <chromas> https://www.digitalinformationworld.com
[02:08:17] <systemd> ^ 03Cloudflare Blocked 9.3 Million Emails Every Day in 2023
[02:09:41] <chromas> "with all things having been considered and taken into account."
[02:09:56] <schestowitz[TR]> thank Microsoft? http://techrights.org
[02:09:57] <systemd> ^ 03Microsoft Saturated E-mail with Junk (Windows Botnets Spew Out Lots of These) and Now It Does the Same to the World Wide Web
[02:10:06] <chromas> When you train your bots on ESL text
[02:10:30] <schestowitz[TR]> "Moreover, the oversaturation of E-mail leads to widespread E-mail blocking, which not only misflags legitimate messages but also legitimate relays (making self-hosting of E-mail incredibly hard and in turn encouraging centralisation and more spying)...
[02:10:30] <schestowitz[TR]> "
[02:26:07] <chromas> https://techcrunch.com
[02:26:08] <systemd> ^ 03X is testing NSFW adult communities, according to screenshots
[02:26:29] <chromas> 🎵 from X to triple X 🎵
[02:27:34] <schestowitz[TR]> Jimmy Wales in reverse
[02:27:39] <schestowitz[TR]> from pron to wikipedia
[02:27:45] <schestowitz[TR]> musk: from twitter to xxx
[02:28:40] <chromas> Makes sense, since Tumblr booted pronz and all the nutters moved over to Twitter
[02:30:08] <schestowitz[TR]> now tumblr is automattic (wordpress)
[02:30:17] <schestowitz[TR]> so all this data is fed to "HEY HI" (AI) mills
[02:31:17] <schestowitz[TR]> http://joeyh.name
[02:31:19] <systemd> ^ 03the vulture in the coal mine ( https://joeyh.name )
[02:32:07] <schestowitz[TR]> "For small self-hosters, this seems like a good time to make sure you're using a VPS provider you can actually trust to not be eyeing your disk image and salivating at the thought of stripmining it for decades of emails. Probably also worth thinking about moving to bare metal hardware, perhaps hosted at home."
[02:33:04] <schestowitz[TR]> https://mwl.io
[02:33:05] <systemd> ^ 03Vultr Just Betrayed Us – Michael W Lucas
[02:33:09] <schestowitz[TR]> https://mwl.io
[02:33:09] <systemd> ^ 03Vultr backed down, but so what? – Michael W Lucas
[02:33:14] <schestowitz[TR]> maybe worth a story in SN?
[02:38:36] <chromas> That could be watching your RAMs too
[02:49:17] <schestowitz[TR]> btw, re trolling in SN
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[02:49:43] <schestowitz[TR]> over a decade ago chris dibona told me about the trolling they got in slashdot
[02:49:50] <schestowitz[TR]> it is not 'organic"
[02:49:57] <schestowitz[TR]> it is very much targeted
[02:57:05] <ted-ious> Intelligence orgs figured out how to use the internet back during the days of aol instant messenger.
[02:58:00] <schestowitz[TR]> [fbiagent] A/S/L? wanna meet for some fun?
[02:58:12] <ted-ious> Exactly.
[02:59:10] <ted-ious> Also let's commit some crimes and record them with this very expensive camera my parents loaned me.
[03:02:36] <schestowitz[TR]> "In an unusual weaponization of content moderation tools" ☛ https://www.404media.co | Source: 404 Media
[03:04:44] <ted-ious> I want to know why those people have child abuse imagery in the first place.
[03:07:35] <chromas> They downloaded it from kaaza when the record companies put it there to discredit file sharing
[03:07:57] <schestowitz[TR]> https://www.techdirt.com
[03:07:58] <systemd> ^ 03playpen – Techdirt
[03:11:43] <schestowitz[TR]> https://netsplit.de
[03:11:44] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews IRC Network
[03:11:49] <schestowitz[TR]> don't let them "sting" your server
[03:13:43] <ted-ious> chromas: Wow they really did that?
[03:16:30] <schestowitz[TR]> sometimes the "goatse" approach
[03:16:42] <schestowitz[TR]> upload or post things that gross people out
[03:17:14] <ted-ious> That makes sense but I never heard anything like that actually happening back then.
[03:17:17] <schestowitz[TR]> or discourage participation by unsavoury or menacing behaviousss
[03:17:40] <schestowitz[TR]> *behaviours
[03:22:17] <schestowitz[TR]> sometimes they stain the comments section of list of channels in irc
[03:22:29] <schestowitz[TR]> to put people off
[03:22:42] <schestowitz[TR]> anyone can post a comment or "join" a channel to create one
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[04:07:47] <chromas> Allegedly
[04:08:04] <chromas> I don't know if the p2p thing was ever confirmed
[04:08:17] <schestowitz[TR]> they did upload their own films
[04:08:26] <schestowitz[TR]> either as bait
[04:08:30] <schestowitz[TR]> or, for exposure
[04:08:46] <schestowitz[TR]> they even got caught doing this
[04:09:13] <schestowitz[TR]> i did a quick search to check if they used CP too
[04:09:21] <schestowitz[TR]> but could not find press reports to that effect
[04:09:35] <schestowitz[TR]> it was common around the 2000s to assert:
[04:09:54] <schestowitz[TR]> 1) p2p is used to fund terrorism
[04:10:05] <schestowitz[TR]> 2) p2p is used to spread messages related to terrorisssm
[04:10:15] <chromas> I know they did broken music uploads
[04:12:04] <chromas> All someone had to do was combine p2p with the web and suddenly all the other networks were abandoned
[04:14:33] <schestowitz[TR]> ipfs will keeps cht going
[04:14:38] <schestowitz[TR]> but we abandoned it months ago
[04:14:41] <schestowitz[TR]> *dht
[04:15:02] <schestowitz[TR]> because it is not energy-efficient and gets associated with big actors/purposes
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[04:37:40] <schestowitz[TR]> organ
[04:38:14] <schestowitz[TR]> disregard that, i was looking for the word organic
[04:44:16] <ted-ious> Wait ipfs and dht were abandoned because they are not energy-efficient?
[04:47:13] <schestowitz[TR]> ipfs uses dhr or blockchain or web3 or whatever buzzword floats it
[04:47:23] <schestowitz[TR]> we used ipfs for 3 years
[04:47:55] <schestowitz[TR]> *dht is how they broadcast who has what for the string of hashes
[04:51:33] <ted-ious> Ok but I still don't understand why it was abandoned.
[04:51:44] <ted-ious> I've never heard of that.
[04:52:30] <schestowitz[TR]> no, only techrights turned it off, and i know others who did too
[04:52:36] <schestowitz[TR]> ipfs is still used a lot
[04:52:45] <schestowitz[TR]> but a high % is bad actors
[04:52:57] <schestowitz[TR]> "big actor" was a typo
[04:53:32] <ted-ious> Oh ok.
[04:53:40] <ted-ious> So you were using it for your blog somehow?
[04:54:17] <schestowitz[TR]> yes, and irc logs and daily buleetins
[04:55:15] <schestowitz[TR]> soylentnews would be shrewd to adopt Gemini Protocol
[04:55:25] <schestowitz[TR]> as SN is text oriented
[04:55:36] <schestowitz[TR]> so making it work in gemini:// would not be a lot of work
[04:56:58] <schestowitz[TR]> https://geminiprotocol.net
[04:56:59] <systemd> ^ 03Project Gemini
[05:31:04] <chromas> What does it do that http doesn't?
[05:31:38] <chromas> or what does it do moar betterer?
[05:44:52] <chromas> "Both the protocol and the format are deliberately limited in capabilities and scope, and the protocol is technically conservative"
[05:44:59] <chromas> I knew it was a right-wing nutter
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[07:27:44] <aristarchus> Roy, roy!  I am sorry for what happened to you, but spamming this site for your failed site will not get you any up-mods.
[07:28:46] <aristarchus> Perhaps if you stopped being a Jordan Peterson Canadian Bacon Style bigot?   Yes, that would help.  And stop spamming SoylentNews, please.
[07:34:55] <aristarchus> Send my greetings to the Pauls.  Soylentils need to know who their new board members are.
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[07:45:00] <schestowitz[TR]> https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org
[07:45:00] <schestowitz[TR]> comment deleted
[07:45:02] <systemd> ^ 03RIP Ross Anderson | Light Blue Touchpaper
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[09:11:07] <Ingar> huza, system updated, xz no longer compromised!
[10:37:25] <schestowitz[TR]> systemd:
[10:37:25] <schestowitz[TR]> https://marc.info
[10:37:25] <schestowitz[TR]> https://lcamtuf.substack.com
[10:37:25] <schestowitz[TR]> """
[10:37:25] <schestowitz[TR]> Shortly after the arrival of Jia, several apparent sock puppet accounts showed up and started pressuring Lasse to pass the baton
[10:37:26] <systemd> ^ 03Technologist vs spy: the xz backdoor debate
[10:37:26] <systemd> ^ 03'lcamtuf on the recent xz debacle' - MARC
[10:37:27] <schestowitz[TR]> """
[10:40:25] <schestowitz[TR]> "Here’s what we know so far: some time ago, an unknown party evidently noticed that liblzma (aka xz) — a relatively obscure open-source compression library — was a dependency of OpenSSH, a security-critical remote administration tool used to manage millions of servers around the world. This dependency existed not because of a deliberate design decision by the developers of OpenSSH, but because of a kludg
[10:40:25] <schestowitz[TR]> e added by some Linux distributions to integrate the tool with the operating system’s newfangled orchestration service, systemd."
[10:40:59] <Ingar> s/some Linux distributions/Debian/g
[15:13:46] <AlwaysNever> Ingar: Debian just followed RedHat's trail to integrate systemd, because otherwise shipping a working Gnome would be too much work for them
[15:15:29] <AlwaysNever> So Debian decided that it was easier to patch OpenSSH to work with systemd, tnan to patch Gnome to work witout systemd
[15:15:36] <AlwaysNever> and then, here we are
[15:16:46] <AlwaysNever> where are we: stuck with systemd/Linux Debian.
[15:26:25] <requerdanos> I detest systemd not because it is a bad thing, but because it complicates something that didn't need complicating; my dislike stems from the fact that everything I learned about server administration--hard work for me--was wiped out at a stroke and suddenly a new design put into place.
[15:51:36] <AlwaysNever> requerdanos: truer words cannot be writtern
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[16:46:13] <fab23> I have a Debian Server running without systemd, but I can understand that on the Dekstop this may get difficult when Gnome is the choice. But on the other hand I guess Gnome is also available on e.g. FreeBSD.
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[17:45:27] <fab23> Statement from Lasse Collin regarding the xz incident https://www.openwall.com
[17:45:28] <systemd> ^ 03oss-security - Re: backdoor in upstream xz/liblzma leading to ssh server compromise
[18:19:01] <janrinok> I read it but I don't understand its significance.
[18:43:41] <drussell> BSD. Just use BSD.
[18:45:06] <fab23> its in a long thread starting with https://www.openwall.com (I guess I have posted it yesterday)
[18:45:07] <systemd> ^ 03oss-security - backdoor in upstream xz/liblzma leading to ssh server compromise
[18:45:41] <fab23> drussell: even form MacPorts I have xz installed, but yes on my FreeBSD nothing such is there.
[18:47:31] <fab23> janrinok: the main project owner let some other contributor in now through that account a backdoor got into the project
[18:47:50] <fab23> s/in now/in, now/
[18:49:13] <drussell> It's not like FreeBSD is somehow impervious to exploits, but it's designed and built in a more sane, rational way in general.
[18:52:13] <fab23> stuff installed through Ports could also be compromized, as most often a single maintainer does change it.
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[19:00:16] <janrinok> unfortunately my choice of IDE will not run on BSD - or at least I could never get it to do so
[19:00:50] <janrinok> (I use Pycharm Community)
[19:05:49] <fab23> janrinok: FreeBSD does have a subsystem (needs to be installed through Ports) to also run linux binaries, but I guess this also would be a major effort
[19:20:24] <janrinok> I tried that but it was unsuccessful. Mind you, it was a couple of years ago.
[19:21:02] <janrinok> Pycharm is actually written in Java
[19:33:19] <chromas> unfortunately
[19:39:34] <chromas> If you do want to run guhnome then you'd probably love running systemd too
[19:49:12] <AlwaysNever> It's a sad state of affairs, with Debian cought again with their pants down, as some time in the past Debian decided to base "dkpg", a core util of theirs, on the xz compression format; why was bzip2 not good enough for them?
[19:49:40] <chromas> why bzip 2 and not 1? or pkzip?
[19:50:07] <AlwaysNever> it was warned xz format was not good, they disregards the advise: https://www.nongnu.org
[19:50:08] <systemd> ^ 03Xz format inadequate for long-term archiving
[19:50:49] <AlwaysNever> whatever, just stay with the tried and true
[19:51:56] <AlwaysNever> now they are reaping what they sow
[19:52:11] <chromas> That's why my terminals are real actual teletypes and my cpus are vacuum tubes :D
[19:52:44] <AlwaysNever> sames reaping of the sown goes for basing Debian on systemd
[19:53:17] <chromas> yeah but they didn't just install systemd and call it a day. there was bunch of arguing and sneakery
[19:53:22] <requerdanos> The question now is not of the format's "adequacy" but rather of its code being poisoned.
[19:54:06] <AlwaysNever> its code was poisoned because it was a obscure format without community traction and threfore without community effort
[19:54:36] <AlwaysNever> Reckless behaviour on the part of Debian, again
[19:56:00] <chromas> I'm pretty sure arch was using xz for awhile but now it looks like they're using zst, probably even more obscure
[19:57:51] <AlwaysNever> Arch is a cutting edge, experimental distribution, their jobs it to do what they do
[19:58:14] <AlwaysNever> Debian is a conservative, stable, tried and true distribution - or it WAS.
[19:59:44] <chromas> well they name their releases after Toy Story characters and Pixar's been going downhill, so
[20:02:12] <chromas> Slink, Potato, Ratzenberger, Sid
[20:05:01] <AlwaysNever> Prophetical words: "The weird combination of unprotected critical fields, overkill check sequences, and padding bytes "protected" by a CRC32 can only be explained by the inexperience of the designers of xz. It is said that given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow. But the adoption of xz by several GNU/Linux distributions shows that if those eyeballs lack the required experience, it may take too long for them to find the bugs. It wou
[20:05:15] <AlwaysNever> ...data formats intended for broad use were designed by experts and peer reviewed before publication. This would help to avoid design errors like those of xz, which are very difficult to fix once a format is in use."
[20:05:20] <AlwaysNever> https://www.nongnu.org
[20:05:21] <systemd> ^ 03Xz format inadequate for long-term archiving
[20:06:34] <chromas> heh
[20:06:53] <chromas> "It woul...data formats intended"
[20:07:24] <AlwaysNever> Debian devolopers have the chuzpa to call those words FUD and propaganda: https://bugs.debian.org
[20:07:27] <systemd> ^ 03#1068024 - revert to version that does not contain changes by bad actor - Debian Bug report logs ( https://bugs.debian.org )
[20:07:40] <chromas> LiCe may be chopping up your message a little wrongly. perhaps it's using xz
[20:09:27] <AlwaysNever> chromas: I had to post the quote in two separate messages, and the writting buffer did not allow to post it all in one go
[20:09:45] <AlwaysNever> it may be lice, or epic4 limitation, I don't know
[20:10:04] <chromas> ah, usually irc clients split automatically
[20:10:27] <chromas> =g lice irc client
[20:10:27] <systemd> https://lice.muppetz.com - LiCe IRC Script
[20:10:54] <chromas> =g epic irc
[20:10:54] <systemd> https://www.epicsol.org - start [EPIC]
[20:12:05] * chromas turns irc into search bar
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