#soylent | Logs for 2024-03-27

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[01:19:54] <drussell> Well, it's a Hyundai, so you'd expect to have serious quality issues, right?
[01:20:58] <drussell> The ship's only 10 years old but had major crashes twice... but did anyone blame the Greeks the first time (also operating for Maersk)
[01:21:33] <drussell> I can't WAIT to see the actual failure mode, what made it lose power, etc?
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[05:32:02] <evilcam> Hi team. Getting an HTTP 500 Internal Server error when browsing to any page on https://soylentnews.org
[05:32:03] <systemd> ^ 03500 Internal Server Error
[05:32:12] <evilcam> I trust this is known?
[05:34:49] <ted-ious> I confirm.
[05:40:09] <chromas> evilcam: Thanks for the report
[05:40:15] <chromas> (adn ted-ious for the confirmation)
[05:41:48] <evilcam> 👍
[05:43:39] <evilcam> Let me know if there's anything I can do to assist further; suspect there isn't and given it's... ~2AM in the US this mightn't get resolved for a while but yeah... Just shout out; I'll stay on IRC until circa 0800 UTC
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[06:14:38] * chromas checks clock
[06:18:22] <ted-ious> Same problem as last time?
[06:25:39] <chromas> I'll just assume so without any evidence to back that up :D
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[08:34:50] <chromas> hm so wayland supporting software KVMs
[08:35:09] <chromas> s/(w)no \1/
[08:35:14] <chromas> sheeeit
[08:35:39] <chromas> well anyhow, no KVMs. synergy/barrier/other forks don't support the waylands
[08:37:09] <ted-ious> Is there a hardware version of kvm now?
[08:38:04] <chromas> well those have been around for ages
[08:38:23] <chromas> the value in a software one is you can just move your mouse from pc to pc like they're all one big desktop
[08:38:33] <chromas> but also after I said that, wayland crashed
[08:38:49] <ted-ious> Something like a blade server that virtualizes all the hardware somehow?
[08:39:59] <chromas> no need to bring HP into this
[08:40:14] <ted-ious> I was thinking about cisco but ok. :)
[08:41:20] <chromas> anyhow, I have a second box with a monitor and I want to be able to poke it with a mouse from time to time. Something like barrier would work, except it's the current year and still no wayland support
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[08:42:10] <chromas> To put that into perspective, Wayland actually became useful in less time than it took them to add wayland support
[08:43:04] <chromas> it's good to see Kwin can recover from a crash though. According to the logs, it appears to create a temporary virtual screen while it sorts itself out
[08:44:29] <ted-ious> Does wayland actually do good things for you that xorg doesn't?
[08:44:47] <chromas> it's 12% less gay
[08:44:48] <ted-ious> Or are you just trying to stay ahead of the curve?
[08:44:55] <chromas> also has hdr support
[08:44:58] <ted-ious> Why?
[08:45:37] <chromas> aside from the odd issue here and there, there's no reason for me to not run wayland
[08:45:59] <chromas> so I may as well run wayland :D
[08:55:27] <chromas> variable refresh rate's nifty too, although the midtones flicker on my screen whenever the refresh rate changes
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[08:59:47] <Ingar> now we wait for remote desktop support
[09:00:09] <Ingar> ofc, RDP doesn't seem to work in the latest krdc
[09:00:31] <chromas> I remember always having to install a separate rdp package for that
[09:00:46] <Ingar> worked fine till I updated to plasme 6
[09:01:14] <chromas> I also noticed QtCurve disappeared from the arch repo after the upgrade to 6
[09:19:25] <chromas> Actually, the absolute most important drawback to kde wayland is it won't remember to restart yakuake on login
[09:20:07] <janrinok> I haven't used Qt since version 5, nor kde for at least a decade
[09:21:25] <Ingar> I've been on KDE since KDE 2
[09:22:39] <chromas> I miss the vertical taskbar from 3
[09:23:33] <janrinok> for me it is too much bling. I much prefer the simpler MATE desktop. At best all I have to do is perhaps change the desktop background and the appearance of the icons, both of which are 30-second jobs.
[09:24:11] <chromas> guhnome 2 :D
[09:24:32] <chromas> 30 secs is a really long time to change your wallpaper
[09:24:48] <janrinok> I also have numerous scripts which are designed to interface with Gnome/MATE and I don't relish the task of having to rewrite them.
[09:25:26] <janrinok> I have a lot of wallpaper to choose from and each of my desktops (9) has a different image.
[09:26:34] <chromas> Time for a new script
[09:27:09] <chromas> oh yeah one downside of kde is all screens have to be on the virtual desktop
[09:27:30] <chromas> something people have complained about for decades and decades and decades
[09:29:13] <janrinok> Did Wayland solve the problem (from a long time ago) regarding accessing remote desktops?
[09:29:33] <janrinok> It may have been fixed years ago but I haven't been paying attention to it.
[09:31:54] <chromas> well there's vnc and stuff
[09:32:22] <chromas> waypipe if you want to run an application remotely like classic x forwarding
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[09:48:10] <chromas> Does mate do wayland?
[09:51:20] <janrinok> not really - they have a phrase that suggest that they can use some aspects of wayland but it is not fully integrated yet.
[09:52:04] <janrinok> It is the source of much discussion on other sites - usually with a sense of frustration and anger that it is not yet implemented
[09:58:42] <janrinok> "Initial Wayland support", but it is far from being the full deal. Not that it matters to me. I am not hearing of any specific benefits or things that I would be able to do but cannot do at the moment.
[09:59:36] <janrinok> I am much more interested in moving away from Ubuntu
[10:07:23] <chromas> to ugentoo?
[10:08:11] <janrinok> er no - I am trying debian, but recompiling everything during the install seems such a waste of my time, although I understand the claimed benefits.
[10:08:49] <janrinok> I am assuming ugentoo is a typo?
[10:09:28] <chromas> nah, it's time for hybrid distros
[10:10:58] <chromas> are you leaving ubuntu because of the forced snaps?
[10:11:38] <janrinok> well Ubuntu is making several moves which I do not appreciate. They made their mark by creating a distro that anyone could install and use fairly easily, but they are moving more towards commercial offerings etc
[10:12:02] <janrinok> The Snaps are only 1 problem
[10:12:11] <chromas> the mandrake of the debian world
[10:13:13] <janrinok> Offering updates to those who subscribe but not offering them to anyone else seems just wrong to me.
[10:13:35] <janrinok> If they have a fix or an enhancement then let us have it please
[10:16:21] <chromas> https://checkmarx.com
[10:16:22] <systemd> ^ 03Attack Using Fake Python Infrastructure
[10:23:02] <chromas> Are you talking about their new extended LTS?
[10:24:17] <janrinok> No, not particularly:
[10:24:21] <janrinok> Calculating upgrade... Done
[10:24:21] <janrinok> Get more security updates through Ubuntu Pro with 'esm-apps' enabled:
[10:24:21] <janrinok> gsasl-common imagemagick libavdevice58 ansible ffmpeg libopenexr25
[10:24:21] <janrinok> libpostproc55 libmagickcore-6.q16-6-extra libgsasl7 libavcodec58
[10:24:22] <janrinok> libmagickwand-6.q16-6 libavutil56 imagemagick-6.q16 libswscale5
[10:24:23] <janrinok> libmagickcore-6.q16-6 libgsl27 libswresample3 imagemagick-6-common
[10:24:24] <janrinok> libavformat58 libgslcblas0 libavfilter7
[10:24:26] <janrinok> Learn more about Ubuntu Pro at https://ubuntu.com
[10:24:27] <systemd> ^ 03Ubuntu Pro | Ubuntu
[10:25:27] <janrinok> They have updates, but only for those who participate in Ubuntu Pro
[10:27:06] <chromas> sounds fake
[10:27:38] <chromas> "You have 12,653.2½ viruses! Install VirusRaper Pro now!!"
[10:27:49] <janrinok> It is not fake - they have been pushing this for quite some time now.
[10:28:10] <chromas> What about Mint?
[10:28:41] <janrinok> It is included - but not activated - every Ubuntu installation. It is in Mint but I do not use it.
[10:32:26] <chromas> "free for personal use" shouldn't that be "ubuntu amateur" then?
[10:33:58] <fab23> Ubuntu Pro is cool, with that you get live kernel patching, so less reboots, perfect in a professional environment.
[10:35:47] <janrinok> There has been quite a few querying where it is leading. If it is free then it should install with all the other stuff whenever I do an update. Why do I have to subscribe even as a general user?
[10:35:56] <chromas> unless there's a patent on that/ksplice I don't see why that's not built into the kernel already
[10:36:46] <janrinok> I understand fab23's comment, but why are such things only desired by 'professionals'? Why can't I have live kernel patching?
[10:37:57] <fab23> janrinok: you can, just give Canonical a little money
[10:38:00] <janrinok> What is being created is a tiered system of support and updates. As some of those things being held back are security updates then they are being withheld from general users even though there is a fix available
[10:38:28] <janrinok> That is against the very concept of FOSS.
[10:38:39] <fab23> and with Pro you also get long long time support, for LTS versions up to 10 years
[10:39:43] <fab23> janrinok: even FOSS people need to put food on the table, I can understand that some of the features developed from Canonical are only available with a support contract.
[10:39:56] <janrinok> Will the security fixes be made available to everybody at a later date? Where is it specified what the delay period will be? I have to have known security issues while being asked to pay for the fixes.
[10:40:31] <fab23> you get the security updates, but you have to reboot to load the new kernel, with pro most often they can live patch and no reboot needed.
[10:41:32] <janrinok> It is not being enforced by Debian, nor as far as I can tell are many other distros going the same way. I which case I will switch to a distro that doesn't hold fixes back.
[10:42:16] <fab23> janrinok: they don't hold anything back, unless you are running an EoL version of Ubuntu
[10:42:18] <janrinok> Not when they first become available - hence my objection. Only to those who wish to subscribe
[10:42:22] <chromas> but will they have those fixes?
[10:42:38] <chromas> it's 12 years now
[10:42:46] <fab23> janrinok: no there is no difference in availabilty for pro or not.
[10:43:13] <janrinok> Get more security updates through Ubuntu Pro with 'esm-apps' enabled:
[10:43:27] <fab23> janrinok: what version of Ubuntu are you running?
[10:43:54] <janrinok> how do you interpret that. Either I am getting the updates (I am not!) or they want me to subscribe. fab23 - the latest
[10:44:08] <janrinok> Latest LTS
[10:44:56] <fab23> janrinok: If I am not wrong, it depends out of which repo a package is, and some do not have even the free LTS support, as far as I know this is only for the base system
[10:45:03] <chromas> hm so livepatching is built into the kernel but needs to be enabled at compile time
[10:45:50] <fab23> janrinok: I have seen this esm-apps messages as well on systems before I enabled Pro of them (we payed anyway), but after enable it no new updates have been installed.
[10:46:10] <janrinok> chromas, in which case how do they change it when I subscribe if I do not have to recompile?
[10:46:53] <janrinok> fab23, so what I you getting now that you have paid?
[10:47:03] <janrinok> *what are you
[10:47:05] <fab23> I don't know how they are doing it, but probably kernel is already enabled, but you do not get the files needed to live patch, which with pro you get out of another repo
[10:47:06] <chromas> they'd probably give you a kernel with it enabled, or it already is but doesn't have the tools installed to run it. dunno
[10:47:29] <chromas> he gets a blue checkmark :D
[10:47:35] <janrinok> lol
[10:48:02] <fab23> janrinok: at least live kernel patching (only for newer versions of Ubuntu) and 10 years updates for LTS versions.
[10:48:13] <fab23> chromas: a gold star :)
[10:48:31] <chromas> oy vey!
[10:48:49] <janrinok> If they have a kernel available that is already enabled then why isn't it made available to all. Demanding a subscription goes against why most people use Linux
[10:48:57] <chromas> oh wait, is it a Lucky/Goldstar?
[10:49:10] <fab23> for example I have systems running with Ubuntu 14.04.6 LTS, which still gets updates thanks to Pro.
[10:49:51] <fab23> chromas: no not LG, was referring to the gold star I have on SN :)
[10:50:28] <chromas> We should change it to a checkmark for April 1
[10:50:41] <janrinok> I have no objection to them charging for extended LTS support. But having software fixes that are NOT being made available is not what I had expected from Ubuntu
[10:51:15] <janrinok> It is a tiered support system, and that is my objection. It is going down the RedHat route.
[10:51:23] <fab23> janrinok: use Debian, there all is free and you have to upgrade around ever 1 - 2 years.
[10:51:50] <chromas> use Debian Rolling Edition
[10:51:55] <janrinok> I am now running Debian on several of my machines but having 18 of them it is a gradual process
[10:52:37] <fab23> Debian unstable (aka sid) is currently very unstable as they are in the transition to 64bit time stuff.
[10:53:09] <fab23> janrinok: hm, you have quiet a zoo of systems :)
[10:53:23] <fab23> s/quiet/quite/
[10:55:10] <janrinok> I provide some computing power to a local school (for free). They have programs running 24/7 but only log in to look at results during specific lessons.
[10:56:49] <janrinok> I also have several systems that are doing specific functions - often Pi based. E.g. ADSB (aircraft tracking), IOT tasks covering my local area, etc
[10:58:12] <janrinok> As long as they do not present an unacceptable internet connection load I am quite happy. I have no data cap.
[11:22:07] <fab23> janrinok: cool
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[11:51:33] <soylentil41> Y'alls are aware already I presume?
[11:52:25] <soylentil41> It's another 500 day
[11:53:58] <soylentil41> But I didn't see any chatter in the IRC logs about it, so I figured to stick my head in here and let you know
[11:55:39] <fab23> is a new 500 error, started about half an hour ago.
[11:56:35] <prg> FYI Gentoo now also supports binary packages. I think there was even a story about that. So that"s not a reason to not use it anymore.
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[11:58:37] <janrinok> SERVER DOWN AGAIN "500 Internal Server Error"
[12:05:31] <janrinok> .op
[12:05:31] -!- mode/#soylent [+o janrinok] by Imogen
[12:05:43] <janrinok> .deop
[12:05:43] -!- mode/#soylent [-o janrinok] by Imogen
[12:40:48] <Ingar> gentoo is enough reason not to use gentoo
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[15:14:31] <janrinok> hi soylentil40
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[15:25:43] <NotSanguine> Hey janrinok. Saw this seven hours or so ago. is this a new outage?
[15:42:18] <janrinok> yes - it was back up for about 2-3 hours, and then this again.
[15:43:29] <janrinok> The problem is that we only have one active sys-admin at the moment, and he has a life and job too.
[15:47:15] <NotSanguine> I understand. Not complaining, was just curious
[15:48:27] <janrinok> audioguy seems to think it is a space issue - he deletes some backups and perhaps a few old logs and off it goes again. But it shouldn't be blocking up this frequently.
[15:50:19] <janrinok> I wasn't suggesting that you _were_ complaining. I will very glad when we can rebuild everything though. It is frustrating to say the least.
[15:50:39] <NotSanguine> Space issues could certainly impact server operations. But you make an excellent point. Perhaps there's a process that's periodically using lots of space?
[15:51:43] <janrinok> maybe, but I don't know what it is. Perhaps if audioguy had a day or two spare we could sort this out but these hot-fixes are not really doing the job.
[15:52:39] <janrinok> The problem is with the database when it tries to do a backup but runs out of space. Rather than recovering gracefully it just chokes.
[15:52:53] <NotSanguine> I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't complaining. I know that everyone is doing their best within the constraints of their lives
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[15:53:37] <janrinok> The whole thing needs restructuring but there is an understandable reluctance to do anything that somebody else can simply undo.
[15:53:47] <NotSanguine> Gotcha. and I guess purchasing more space isn't an option at the moment
[15:54:03] <janrinok> It is not our system yet..... :)
[15:54:14] <NotSanguine> Especially (as you just mentioned) since there's a transition in process
[15:54:18] <NotSanguine> yep
[15:59:07] <Soylentil721223> why would someone undo a restructuring thing if it clearly helps with keeping the site up?
[16:02:09] <janrinok> I am not saying that they would - but it is a consequence of the reduction in hardware that took place in late 2022. It saved us money but it broke lots of other bespoke software that solved problems like this.
[16:02:42] <janrinok> Updating the distro did not update the bespoke software.
[16:04:15] <janrinok> Additionally, I and other staff could log in using ssh to a specific server and then move around to other servers using kerberos. The kerberos wasn't set up and so I am stuck on a single server that appears to be doing very little of any consequence.
[16:05:34] <Soylentil721223> @janrinok, it serves SSH :P
[16:05:50] <janrinok> I don't believe for one moment that it was malicious, but it was not (IMHO) very well executed with no thought to what else needed to be done. We did try to get back onto the system but that, as they say, is now history.
[16:06:30] <janrinok> The changes were not even documented so our techwiki was made useless overnight.
[16:07:33] <Soylentil721223> were some of Soylent's servers being used for purposes of serving non-soylentnews organizations?
[16:07:39] <Soylentil721223> s/were/are/
[16:09:47] <janrinok> not that I am aware of, but as they are not longer ours I can't go find out. I don't think so. But we had a certain amount of redundancy to cope with issues such as this.
[16:10:52] <janrinok> *no longer ours
[16:26:43] <Bytram> janrinok: Sorry I've but been in touch. Was at a conference for a couple and the had a multi-day power outage (brrr!)
[16:29:09] <Bytram> there were regular backups take periodically of all our servers... any idea where they went?
[16:31:13] <Bytram> Can they be restored onto new servers that we could work from and/or restore
[16:32:40] <Bytram> Please ping me if anybody has any info!
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[17:00:53] <soylentil35> interested in peoples notes around using cloudflare of similar to provide a cached version of the site when it goes server error 500
[17:02:24] <janrinok> is it free?
[17:10:30] <soylentil35> looks like, maybe/sort of. You can request the EFF or similar sponsor your use of CloudFlare under Project Galileo https://www.cloudflare.com
[17:10:31] <systemd> ^ 03Project Galileo | Cloudflare ( https://www.cloudflare.com )
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[17:37:18] <fab23> regarding Clownflare https://unixdigest.com
[17:37:18] <systemd> ^ 03Stay away from Cloudflare
[17:37:40] <schestowitz[TR]> i second that
[17:37:48] <schestowitz[TR]> i think we also coined clownflare :)
[17:38:03] <schestowitz[TR]> outsourcing is _never_ a solution
[17:38:07] <schestowitz[TR]> and the company does not profit
[17:38:19] <schestowitz[TR]> so it won't stay free forever
[17:43:54] <Ingar> go cloudfare and I will immediately delete my account :D
[17:44:27] <schestowitz[TR]> 1.5bn in debt https://finbox.com
[17:44:28] <systemd> ^ 03The Complete Toolbox For Investors ( https://finbox.com )
[17:46:08] <fab23> https://addons.mozilla.org to see what to avoid :)
[17:46:09] <systemd> ^ 03Detect Cloudflare – Get this Extension for 🦊 Firefox (en-US)
[17:47:52] <schestowitz[TR]> look up "Matthew prince theregister cloudflare profit"
[17:48:33] <schestowitz[TR]> aside from censorship and surveillance (blocking too much, even their own "clients"), they admit losing money and plan to start charging when the time is "right"
[17:49:38] <Ingar> isn't that reddit's business plan? :)
[17:50:33] <schestowitz[TR]> reddit = conde nast
[17:50:39] <schestowitz[TR]> hoard users, sell data
[17:50:47] <schestowitz[TR]> offload to wall street
[17:50:50] <schestowitz[TR]> to cash in
[17:51:00] <schestowitz[TR]> clownflare = military connected
[17:51:09] <schestowitz[TR]> ban nazis, run sites for taliban annnd isis
[17:51:23] <schestowitz[TR]> then OUTSOURCER (the irony) to wall street
[17:53:20] <fab23> the MitM stuff and also that with the free account there is the forced firewall, so you have users which will not be able to access your site ever.
[17:53:45] <fab23> I think even browsers without JS
[17:53:59] <schestowitz[TR]> depends on the site settings
[17:54:01] <schestowitz[TR]> for now
[17:54:10] <fab23> if you are able to adjust that
[17:54:33] <fab23> some settings are not available in the free version
[17:55:28] <schestowitz[TR]> at least SN r eaders can have fun marking up motorcycles
[17:55:36] <schestowitz[TR]> to access a mostly text-based site
[18:02:34] <fab23> I just recently gave up on a reCAPTCHA as it already had asked like 4 - 5 times to solve new puzzles.
[18:04:00] <fab23> sometimes the images are that bad and I do not know if that is a crosswalk or not, as there where I live they are yellow :)
[18:06:25] <Ingar> or like, is the wire of the traffic light also a traffic light ?
[18:12:59] <fab23> I sometimes on purpose do not click all squares if it is a single image
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[18:14:43] <janrinok> fab23, I think we all have the same problem, and probably do exactly as you do
[18:28:28] <drussell> If it's "protected" by an unsolvable machine-learning-training excercise, it's certainly not worth visiting.
[18:30:25] <fab23> exactly
[18:31:10] <fab23> Sometimes I look at it to be steering a Google car right now with what I choose :)
[18:36:14] <fab23> If I remember right, the one I gave up recently was with reporting a phising URL to safebrowsing (of course at Google, but also used from e.g. Firefox)
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[20:13:33] <aristarchus> 500 Internal Server Error,  site seems to be down.  Did anyone notice?
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[20:46:16] -!- mode/#soylent [+v mrpg] by Imogen
[20:46:40] <mrpg> NOW WHAT
[20:46:50] <mrpg> Internal Server Error
[20:47:00] <mrpg> We've been jinxed
[20:50:37] <mrpg> Or is this due to the thing with the moon?
[20:50:45] <mrpg> wait, i for got the word in inglish.
[20:50:51] <mrpg> Eclipse.
[20:51:24] <mrpg> HA, it si the sme word in Espanish.
[20:51:33] <mrpg> same
[20:51:48] <chromas> Gotta switch from Eclipse to IntelliJ
[20:53:49] <mrpg> i havent seen the news but i suppose there's people getting ready for armagedon april 8th
[20:54:18] -!- AlwaysNever [AlwaysNever!~donaldo@89.71.3.976.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #soylent
[20:55:35] <AlwaysNever> Hello
[20:55:40] <AlwaysNever> Is the web site down?
[20:55:53] <chromas> it is
[20:57:12] <AlwaysNever> looks like remote shell access will be needed to fix it - is the person able to do so, notified?
[21:02:15] <AlwaysNever> is there any place where status updates about the donwtime are published?
[21:07:12] <mrpg> There is no status.soylentnews.org though that'd be swell. For now the IRC will do.
[21:08:14] <mrpg> What is the best way to do that? a different domain would be my first idea.
[21:09:13] <mrpg> http://status.sylnt.us
[21:09:14] <systemd> ^ 03ERROR: The requested URL could not be retrieved
[21:09:38] <mrpg> But there's already a stats so watch out for typos.
[21:11:12] <mrpg> http://status.sylnt.us We are aware of a 500 error in the web server, estimated time to fix X minutes. Thanks for your patience.
[21:11:12] <systemd> ^ 03ERROR: The requested URL could not be retrieved
[21:12:48] <AlwaysNever> mrpg: an official twitter account for Soylentnews-emergencies would do
[21:13:11] <mrpg> There is one but we dont hav the password.
[21:13:44] <AlwaysNever> mrpg: so the keys of the kingdom have not YET been transferred over? are you kidding?
[21:14:00] <mrpg> No, the twitter thing comes from years ago.
[21:14:19] <mrpg> =g deplatforming
[21:14:20] <systemd> https://en.wikipedia.org - Deplatforming - Wikipedia
[21:15:10] <AlwaysNever> hmm, as is SN is boicoting X, or X is boicoting SN?
[21:15:29] <AlwaysNever> SN is a platform, too
[21:16:09] <mrpg> None, just a case of forgotten password or user or both.
[21:16:50] <AlwaysNever> well, the powers that be could create a new X account, and validate it with some new SN email address, or something
[21:18:54] <mrpg> Or TRUTH Social
[21:19:32] <requerdanos> Encourage musk on one hand, trump on the other. No thanks? :)
[21:19:45] <AlwaysNever> that X account would be called something like SoylentNews-emergencies, as it would be used only for downtime communications, because SN has its own platform to communicate is official position when it needs to be done in "normal circumstances"
[21:19:48] <mrpg> haha then status.sylnt.us
[21:21:51] <AlwaysNever> requerdanos: a tool is a tool, that tools should be hosted elsewhere, in case the CPD burns down
[21:22:33] <AlwaysNever> *CPD would be datacenter, sorry it's a Spanish abreviation
[21:23:25] -!- soylentil35 has quit [Quit: Client closed]
[21:23:33] <chromas> he have https://soylentnews.org
[21:23:33] <systemd> ^ 03500 Internal Server Error
[21:23:39] <chromas> see? status!
[21:23:59] <AlwaysNever> yeah, but what about status "updates"... :-)
[21:25:37] <chromas> when there's an update, it won't be 500 anymore :D
[21:26:31] <AlwaysNever> yeah, it could evolve to "time out, host not found"....
[21:26:36] <requerdanos> Maybe 400. Or 302.
[21:28:46] <mrpg> haha
[21:29:05] <mrpg> CPD centro popular de datos
[21:29:06] <AlwaysNever> Well, i have SN configured to don't soy stories with the "Meta" tag, because I was tired of the drama
[21:29:29] <AlwaysNever> ...but let me ask: was the drama resolved to satisfaction, already?
[21:29:38] <chromas> hah
[21:29:44] <mrpg> It's on wheels
[21:29:56] <requerdanos> Yes, almost completely, definitely in progress.
[21:30:09] <AlwaysNever> CPD: centro de proceso de datos
[21:30:16] <mrpg> aaaah ok
[21:30:28] <chromas> needs moar de
[21:30:34] <requerdanos> claro que eso.
[21:31:49] <chromas> quiero ese queso
[21:32:08] <AlwaysNever> ese queso sabe rico
[21:32:24] <mrpg> pizza queso pepperoni
[21:32:33] <AlwaysNever> y no ha ms cera que la que arde
[21:32:58] <mrpg> no way jose
[21:38:58] <AlwaysNever> So... what's the ETA for the fix?, next Monday?
[21:39:10] <requerdanos> seems to be working now.
[21:39:43] <AlwaysNever> yeah! it's working
[21:39:51] <AlwaysNever> hurrah!
[21:40:00] <requerdanos> :)
[21:41:26] <mrpg> Here too, thanks sysadmin}
[21:42:08] <AlwaysNever> any post-mortem insight as to what happened?
[21:44:08] <mrpg> My work here is done.
[21:44:36] <AlwaysNever> mrpg: what do you mean?
[21:44:42] <mrpg> https://www.youtube.com
[21:44:43] <systemd> ^ 03Leonard Nimoy My work is done
[21:45:01] <AlwaysNever> ah, ok,
[21:46:07] <AlwaysNever> hahah, I replied to you with the same line as in the video clip!
[21:46:23] <mrpg> haha
[21:46:24] <mrpg> https://www.youtube.com
[21:46:25] <systemd> ^ 03The Cosmic Ballet Goes On
[21:50:10] <AlwaysNever> so why is "eclipse" not proounced "ecleepse" en English?
[21:50:30] <AlwaysNever> I mean, "eclaheepse"
[21:51:36] <mrpg> To find out that we have to go back 1200 years...
[21:51:36] <AlwaysNever> as "archive" is pronounce "arkaheef"
[21:52:05] <mrpg> =blame
[21:52:05] * systemd points at Bytram
[21:53:27] <AlwaysNever> both eclipse and archive come form old Greek, but in archive English choose to corrupt the "i", but not in eclipse
[21:58:19] <AlwaysNever> In Spanish, spelling is also hard, but you can read new-to-you words and pronounce them perfectly because letter-to-sound is always unambigoups
[21:59:07] <AlwaysNever> Sound-to-letter is not unambigoups in Spanish, as some sounds may have various spellings
[22:12:16] <AlwaysNever> So ChatGP has an opinion on that: https://chat.openai.com
[22:12:16] <systemd> ^ 03ChatGPT: Get instant answers, find inspiration, learn something new
[22:15:32] <mrpg> Spanish is easy, one letter, one sound.
[22:15:38] <mrpg> 'Cept for the grammar...
[22:15:42] <chromas> sh
[22:16:32] <AlwaysNever> Yeah, but not so easy, as in Spanish one sound can be written two ways, on certain cases
[22:16:47] <requerdanos> here, ciento/siento for example
[22:17:14] <mrpg> Casa, caza
[22:17:33] <mrpg> I use Bard, or google's gemini, it makes mistakes often.
[22:17:47] <mrpg> cien sien, sima cima
[22:17:52] <AlwaysNever> requerdanos: not the case of ciento/siento, as that is a different case relating to regional differences in pronunciation in the South of Spain and in Hispamo-Amrcia
[22:18:02] <AlwaysNever> *Hispano-amrica
[22:18:15] <requerdanos> that's why I say "here"
[22:18:34] <AlwaysNever> we don't say "Latin America" here, in fact we mock that term as no Roman ever set foot on Amercia
[22:18:53] <AlwaysNever> here we say Hispano-America, or Ibero-America in including Brasil
[22:19:20] <AlwaysNever> *if including
[22:20:15] <Bytram> Hi guys!
[22:20:57] <requerdanos> Hi bytram
[22:21:23] <mrpg> While we have safeguards, ChatGPT may give you inaccurate information. It’s not intended to give advice.
[22:21:25] <Bytram> long time do sea
[22:21:43] <Bytram> long time do *see*!
[22:21:44] <mrpg> no wi can use chatgpt with my google account it doenst asked for my cell phone.}
[22:22:01] <mrpg> bytram: Welcome!
[22:22:06] <requerdanos> Chatgpt says "Get instant answers", not "Get correct answers".
[22:22:14] <mrpg> hmmm right
[22:22:29] <AlwaysNever> mrpg: if you check the link a posted, I had to correct ChatGPT as it was trying to make me agree that the English *spelling* of achive and eclipse was not anoalogous
[22:22:29] <mrpg> now i can ask them the same questions.
[22:23:01] <Bytram> so good to "see" you! How's things?
[22:23:32] <mrpg> I have a minimum wage job that i dont like, so, like the rest of the world hehe
[22:23:36] <requerdanos> I am doing well, as I hope you are.
[22:23:39] <mrpg> I dont despise it, though
[22:25:21] <Bytram> mrpg: u still have a sense of humor :)
[22:26:36] <AlwaysNever> Here I have another conversation with CHatGPT, where it gave me a straight wrong answer, and I had to correct it: https://chat.openai.com
[22:26:36] <systemd> ^ 03ChatGPT: Get instant answers, find inspiration, learn something new
[22:26:38] <mrpg> Always look on the bright side of death
[22:26:59] <AlwaysNever> It has to be said that ChatGPT does backpedal fast when you correct it
[22:27:15] <mrpg> Bard swears that a Hemingway story was written by some guy in 1926.
[22:27:20] <requerdanos> Wrong but plausible-sounding answers are really dangerous for knowledge as a whole imo
[22:27:33] * Bytram is recuperating from weekend ye (and night) power outage. Brrrr!conference followd y a mulr-adbe
[22:27:36] <mrpg> The snows of kilimanjaro, it told me 10 times that it was NOT written by hemingway.
[22:27:59] <requerdanos> I am glad you have power again.
[22:28:09] <mrpg> The power to serve
[22:28:26] <Bytram> Bzzt!
[22:28:29] <mrpg> Bard accepts corrections, i give him wrong answers and he takes them.
[22:29:45] <mrpg> i wanted to update linux in a pendrive, not on my laptop, and it told me to run apt update. i said "that would updte the laptop" oh sorry you are right.
[22:29:55] <Bytram> Regurgitator: power is good!
[22:30:35] <mrpg> i tried Bard to check my grammar and he alost always gives me wrong answers when correcting sentences.
[22:31:01] <requerdanos> Sorry regurgitator :)
[22:31:01] <mrpg> Literally, he told me to take thw word ON annd replace it with ON.
[22:34:07] <Bytram> mrpg: Huh? Yeesh!
[22:34:35] <mrpg> Yes, and in French, and in Spanish too.
[22:34:45] <Bytram> thats baaad!
[22:35:09] <requerdanos> it told you to use the word "on" in spanish?
[22:35:56] <Bytram> mrpg: Thanks for the warning!
[22:36:22] <AlwaysNever> "On" in Spanish has not a direct traslation, it vould depend on context: Encencer, Arrancar, Conectado, Sobre/Encima, etc.
[22:36:31] <mrpg> No, in English.
[22:36:53] <mrpg> When i have doubts about in, on, i ask him.
[22:39:05] <mrpg> Question to both AI:
[22:39:07] <mrpg> I have a laptop. I have a pendrive. I have linux in both. I want to boot my laptop and from there i want to update the linux in the pendrive. How?
[22:39:35] <mrpg> Bar told me that i cant update it because it is a live CD. ChatGPT told me to boot from the pendrive hahaha.
[22:39:52] <AlwaysNever> that question is too specific to experience, and AI has no experience
[22:40:35] <AlwaysNever> unless AI has read some blog dealing with that exact problem, AI could not answer that question
[22:40:40] <mrpg> I installed it on th ependrive, it is not a liveUSb thingy
[22:42:41] <Bytram> mrpg: Good question, but I have no idea. Sry!!
[22:43:16] <mrpg> now i told them no, i want to update it from the laptop. Can i chroot or something?
[22:43:38] <mrpg> they gave the right answer, congrats.
[22:45:58] <AlwaysNever> also, what is the purpose on "having linux" in a pendrive if that pendrive is not bootable?
[22:50:26] <mrpg> Yes, it is bootable.
[22:51:21] <mrpg> I can boot from it and do the update, but i was curious to do it like this, i dont want to reboot just to update it.
[22:51:56] <mrpg> It is slooow, i dont want to leave my current environment, my $HOME.
[22:52:23] <mrpg> Still i won't do it, im afraid it might not work or something. nonono.
[22:52:26] <mrpg> SNAFU.
[22:52:50] <mrpg> This laptop is already on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
[22:53:33] <chromas> Are you booted from the internal storage and ranting to update the thumb drive, or are you booted from the thumb drive and wanting to update the thumb drive?
[22:55:50] <mrpg> I use the internal always, and have a pendrive for emergencies that i want to "aptitude safe-upgrade".
[22:56:20] <AlwaysNever> mrpg: but with that chroot technique, did you just to "apt-get upgrade", or did you alse upgraded the kernel? - because a kernel upgrade would trigger a ramdisk rebuild, and then the resulting ramdisk many be wrong as it does not know if the pendrive is detected as /dev/sda or something else...
[22:56:35] <chromas> You can probably chroot in or even do a systemd-nspawn -b
[22:57:49] <AlwaysNever> *may be wrong
[22:58:00] <mrpg> AlwaysNever: I've never tried it, good question.
[22:59:17] <mrpg> chromas: sounds good.
[22:59:55] <mrpg> If i ever buy a 2nd laptop i might try those things.
[23:00:23] <mrpg> I saw one from 2004, in 3 dollars, no charger.
[23:00:41] <mrpg> 512 MB ram, HD 80GB.
[23:00:59] <AlwaysNever> no charger, no dice
[23:01:08] <mrpg> Right
[23:01:41] <AlwaysNever> also, 512 MB is a nice "retro" laptop
[23:01:50] <chromas> Mount the thumb drive somewhere on the lap, say /mnt, then sudo systemd-nspawn -bD /mnt then you should be able to do updates or whatever inside
[23:03:09] <AlwaysNever> chromas: systemd-nspawn uses the same kernel as the root namespace, I doubt that container could have a kernel updated in an independent fashion
[23:04:38] <AlwaysNever> also, systemd is the devil, it has stolen the joy out of Linux
[23:04:39] <chromas> Doesn't matter what kernel's running, otherwise you couldn't do updates anyhow since the newly installed kernel wouldn't be the running one
[23:05:48] <AlwaysNever> the problem with that is the rd-build, it may build an rd that is not appropiate/viable when the pendrive boots stand-alone...
[23:06:43] <chromas> Must be an Ubuntu thing
[23:06:52] <AlwaysNever> Debian thing
[23:07:21] <AlwaysNever> Redhat used dracut for it, not sure what nowadays.
[23:08:31] <chromas> Dunno
[23:09:17] <chromas> Anyhow if you're booted into the thumb drive, even as a container, it'll use the files in the thumb drive to build its stuff
[23:10:50] <AlwaysNever> yes, but the container is virtual, it does not know how the BIOS/UEFI will detect the devive when booting from it stand-alone
[23:12:50] <AlwaysNever> in a container, the filesystem is universal, but the boot device is emulated or non-existant
[23:13:15] <chromas> Sounds like a bootloader issue. That's separate from the initramfs
[23:13:42] <AlwaysNever> it would need to be tested
[23:14:38] <AlwaysNever> if the boot ramdisk is build in a generalized fashion, like in a CloneZilla ISO, it may work; if the boot ramdisk is customized to the detected "hardware", it will fail
[23:17:08] <mrpg> ho w do i find out that for mine?
[23:18:19] <AlwaysNever> mrpg: do the chroot for your pendrive, then apt-get update, apt-get upgrade, apt upgrade (the last one will upgrade the kernel and rebuild the boot ramdisk).
[23:18:40] <AlwaysNever> then check if the resulting pendrive boots
[23:19:05] <mrpg> hmmm ok
[23:19:20] <AlwaysNever> I would not try it myself, thou, as the chances of botching the booting ability of the pendrive are high
[23:20:23] <chromas> If you have an extra drive you could copy one to the other then try it on the copy
[23:20:40] <mrpg> I have a drive and a SD card, the backup of the backup.
[23:28:18] <AlwaysNever> Instead of playin banzai with Linux, I discovered this amazing video of a Arcade Saloon in Spain, in the '90s...
[23:28:22] <AlwaysNever> https://www.bitchute.com
[23:28:23] <systemd> ^ 03Recreativos CARAMBOLA en León
[23:28:27] <AlwaysNever> I was there, man!
[23:29:21] <AlwaysNever> smoling indoors like there was no tomorrow, LOL
[23:29:27] <AlwaysNever> *smoking
[23:33:54] <AlwaysNever> those times ain't coming back, man
[23:52:52] <mrpg> https://www.imdb.com
[23:52:53] <systemd> ^ 03Maximum Overdrive (1986) ⭐ 5.4