#soylent | Logs for 2023-10-17
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[06:28:33] <janrinok> Good morning AzumaHazuki
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[07:20:54] -!- mode/#soylent [+v chromas] by Imogen
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[09:42:49] <aristarches> =submit Not Banned? https://www.nytimes.com
[09:42:51] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Biden, Trolling Trump, Joins Truth Social: ‘Converts Welcome’" (13p) -> https://soylentnews.org
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[09:46:14] <aristarches> =sub https://phys.org
[09:46:17] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Signatures of the Space Age: Spacecraft Metals Left in the Wake of Humanity's Path to the Stars" (39p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[09:47:02] <aristarches> =asub https://www.sciencealert.com
[09:47:03] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Amazing Flyover Reveals What Soaring Across Mars Would Look Like" (15p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[09:49:55] <aristarches> =submit https://www.nbcnews.com
[09:49:58] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03This Anti-censorship Crusader Appears to Have Buried Something Himself: a Secret Alt-right Past" (49p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[09:55:16] <aristarches> =submit https://onlysky.media
[09:55:17] <systemd> ^ 03Ali Alexander and the alt-right feud that finally exploded
[09:55:36] <aristarches> Worse than it looks, as if that were possible.
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[10:26:30] <chromas> baleeted!
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[16:36:51] <progo> I hate that my expensive Bose noise cancelling headset came with an analog 3.5mm cable which supports audio output only, and bluetooth is required for mic. I hate bluetooth. and I hate that it's socially acceptable to remove the 3.5mm audio connector from handhelds
[16:37:16] <progo> a 3.5mm socket does NOT make it harder to waterproof a device
[16:37:31] <progo> and don't talk to me about board space when the displays keep getting bigger
[16:40:54] <requerdanos> the display is bigger on your headset? Seems like identity confusion
[16:42:00] <progo> no I mean phone displays keep getting bigger. 1) there is room inside the chassis on on the board for a 3.5mm audio jack. don't try to tell me otherwise. 2) including a 3.5mm audio jack does not make waterproofing significantly harder. this configuration used to be commonplace
[16:42:05] <progo> removing the 3.5mm audio jack is bullshit
[16:42:27] <progo> *room inside the chassis and on the board for a 3.5mm audio jack
[16:43:29] <progo> what set me off: wanted an ad hoc phone call with my coworker on my work Windows laptop. my Bose bluetooth headset mic didn't exist in Windows. gave up and deleted the pairing and resetting it all took 3 minutes
[16:43:45] <progo> I hope everyone else is having a less comcastic day
[16:44:15] <requerdanos> Thanks, hope yours technologically improves. 3.5mm jack or no.
[16:55:01] <progo> I should get a broadcasting mic and amateur mixer and mic preamp with USB and 3.5mm analog hookups, and use that with my Bose headset's head speakers on the analog cable, for phone calls
[16:55:22] <progo> bee thinking about it for a while
[16:55:40] <requerdanos> as long as you have somewhere to put it.
[16:55:45] <progo> broadcasting mic -- on a floor stand with an articulating arm and springs to hold it in place
[16:56:05] <progo> if I get all the old junk out of my home office yes
[16:56:06] <progo> :^)
[17:20:10] <chromas> ever since intel HD audio came out, I've never heard a desktop PC that could handle a microphone. They're always really quiet with lots of buzzing for some reason
[17:20:58] <chromas> Windows, Linux, front jack, rear jack. That was never a problem in the 90s, even with those famously shitty MULTIMEDIA mics
[17:21:51] <chromas> Also there was a period when phones had 2.5mm jacks; perhaps they could go back to those for maximum thinness
[17:22:16] <progo> I had a couple of Blackberries over the years with 2.5mm
[17:24:48] <chromas> Even though the headset came with the wrong cable, can the headset itself support a four-line cable?
[17:25:00] <chromas> trrs
[17:53:27] <progo> chromas I was away. not sure what you're asking. if you have a headset with two speakers and 3 conductors on the cable, and you plug it into a four conductor jack (TRRS) where the fourth conductor is a mic in put, the speakers will work and the host will see the mic shorted to Ground I think. And this will be interpreted as 'mute' or 'no mic'
[17:54:12] <chromas> Since it's got bluetooth, I figured it had a removable cable
[17:54:31] <progo> what came with the wrong cable? my headset?
[17:55:06] <progo> my headset 1) DOES NOT SUPPORT AN ANALOG CONNECTION FOR MIC, only for speakers. 2) came with the right cable for that. 3) didn't explain this clearly on the box. 4) I knew it from reviews ahead of time and made the purchase while already informed
[17:56:06] <chromas> I've seen headsets with a 3.5mm jack so that the cable is unpluggable for when using bluetooth. That's what I was picturing. In that case, it could just be that the cable doesn't support the mic even if the jack on the headset does
[17:56:12] <progo> there's the analog output-only audio cable, fully removable. and a USB charging only cable, fully removeable
[17:56:41] <progo> yeah the headset side of the analog cable is actually either *2.5mm* or some weird non-standard thing
[17:56:54] <progo> "oops. lost my cable. need to order a special part from the vendor for $25"
[17:57:17] <progo> headset came with a case. inside is a pocket for the cable. don't lose it
[17:57:41] <progo> also, can't power on the headset while charging
[17:57:52] <chromas> lame
[17:58:00] <progo> so many things "not implemented" because screw you, and it's a $300 or $400 headset
[17:58:25] <chromas> well at least 2.5mm cables aren't hard to find, but who knows what weirdo pinout they're using
[17:59:10] <progo> probably something non-standard
[17:59:37] <progo> all that being said, the noise canceling on the mic array and on the speakers is very good
[17:59:42] * progo sighs heavily
[18:00:06] <progo> just don't lean back in your chair and put your hands behind your neck. the DSP gets confused and just mutes the mic
[18:00:30] <progo> people have said (when I'm in the correct posture) they can't hear sirens on my mic through my open window
[18:01:25] <progo> basically the DSP for noise canceling on the mic array tries to reject any sound that didn't come from INSIDE the headband geographically
[18:02:19] <progo> Bose Quiet Comfort. progo half-endorses
[18:03:16] <progo> DO NOT BUY THE OLD VERSION with USB-micro-B DC power input socket. you will hate yourself
[18:03:32] <progo> USB-micro-B is an abomination that was on most phones in the 2010s
[18:03:58] <progo> wears out too quickly and the mechanical load wears out the SOCKET not the CABLE
[18:04:00] <progo> GAH
[18:04:04] <progo> *end of rant
[18:08:15] <chromas> Time to experiment with 2.5mm adapters
[18:15:04] <ted-ious> But isn't usbc a bad standard because the wires are so tiny they die just as quickly?
[18:30:57] <progo> I haven't had any connection trouble with USB-C
[18:31:13] <progo> I have several USB-micro-B devices where the socket is dodgy due to regular use
[18:31:39] <progo> also USB-C doesn't have 3-orientation hookup confusion :^)
[19:02:56] <Bytram> https://www.youtube.com
[19:02:57] <systemd> ^ 03Dr. Dre - Still Dre (Piano Solo)
[19:21:17] <ted-ious> I'm not an electrical engineer or anything I've just heard smart people complaining about how it tries to push too much power through tiny wires and that there are too many of them.
[19:22:10] <ted-ious> But I know what you mean about micro usb being too easy to break.
[19:22:27] <ted-ious> I wish everything would have stayed at mini usb.
[19:25:20] <progo> ted-ious agreed
[19:26:08] <progo> I have not experienced high current issues, but it is kinda worrying that they want to push 120W at 12V (10A) through those itty bitty auxiliary conductors on the 'USB-C-PD' connectors
[19:26:38] <ted-ious> What is USB-C-PD?
[19:26:51] <progo> I have no devices that draw that much current, except maybe my work laptop which I didn't choose. (USB-C power input only)
[19:26:52] <ted-ious> Is that an even newer port?
[19:26:54] <progo> power delivery
[19:27:00] <inz> why did they go for two possible orientations for usb-c, trrrrrrrrrs would have infinite orientations!
[19:27:09] <progo> extra conductors in a 3rd and 4th outer row of the socket
[19:27:23] <ted-ious> What!
[19:27:34] <ted-ious> How many wires are they putting in these things??
[19:27:58] <progo> lots. my power-delivery USC charger for my laptop has a fat cable
[19:28:29] <progo> https://en.wikipedia.org
[19:28:30] <systemd> ^ 03USB hardware - Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org )
[19:28:30] <ted-ious> This is getting ridiculous.
[19:28:58] <progo> but it's STANDARD! by legislation. if there are any engineering mistakes now and the market wants to correct, TOO BAD
[19:28:59] <progo> :^)
[19:29:18] <ted-ious> I knew usbc was being used to power more and more devices all the time but I didn't realize there were 4 rows of wires and connectors!
[19:29:52] <progo> finally found a diagram
[19:29:53] <progo> https://www.delock.de
[19:30:01] <progo> USB-C PD plug ^
[19:30:15] <progo> well you can't put 10A on those little conductors
[19:30:16] <progo> :^)
[19:31:17] <progo> lol! it goes up to 48V × 5A == 240W
[19:31:38] <progo> I guess none of the specs go to 10A; they just negotiate higher voltages
[19:32:11] <progo> I assume it's 2.5A on each of the two symmetrical PD pins on the plug
[19:32:31] <progo> 2 power supply pins in parallel, 2 return pins in parallel
[19:32:41] <progo> and 2 ground pins for "safety"
[19:32:44] <ted-ious> I don't even want that in my house.
[19:33:05] <ted-ious> That's worse than samsung lithium batteres.
[19:33:38] <progo> have you seen Louis Rossmann complaining about the death trap "one wheel" electric unicycle standup scooters?
[19:33:57] <progo> they use what looks like a CPU fan power socket to carry high current power from the battery to the main power bus
[19:34:15] <progo> they also famously sometimes run away when there is no weight on the board
[19:34:22] <progo> at up to 25mph or so
[19:34:34] <progo> if you see one coming at you, get on a bench or something
[19:34:43] <progo> it ain't stopping
[19:34:59] <progo> OneWheel brand
[19:35:52] <ted-ious> No and thanks for warning me that I have to dodge killer robots now. :)
[19:36:15] <progo> they still have a patent on this shit so no one can market a safer version of the same concept
[19:36:21] <progo> with power cables instead of power twigs
[19:37:21] <ted-ious> But seriously thanks for that diagram.
[19:37:36] <progo> welcome
[19:37:45] <ted-ious> I didn't realize there were 6 larger wires for power.
[19:37:55] <ted-ious> Maybe that's not so bad now?
[19:38:09] <progo> properly made thin cables will NOT allow the devices to negotiate high current
[19:38:52] <progo> due to conductors not being present
[19:39:41] <ted-ious> What about the ones that are made in china?
[19:40:32] <progo> Big Clive likes to make videos where he analyzes chinesium garbage parts and gadgets. makes microphotographs and schematics and tells you why they'll kill you
[19:41:02] <progo> sometimes he says "oh, actually, this is quite well designed."
[19:41:14] <ted-ious> Neat!
[19:41:22] <ted-ious> Do you have a link to his channel?
[19:41:44] <progo> https://odysee.com
[19:41:44] <systemd> ^ 03bigclivedotcom
[19:42:06] <ted-ious> I just looked at a usbc connecter thru a magnifying glass and it looks like the power connectors are bigger than they appear in that diagram.
[19:42:16] <ted-ious> Oh odysee?
[19:42:17] <progo> cool
[19:42:35] <ted-ious> That doesn't have an rss feed does it?
[19:42:43] <progo> it does
[19:42:58] <progo> vertical ellipsis menu in top right
[19:43:06] <progo> he's on the google shit site too
[19:43:30] <ted-ious> Oh nevermind it's blocking anonymoys access.
[19:43:38] <ted-ious> Oh well.
[19:43:40] <progo> rumble is the one where the producer has to PAY to allow viewers to subscribe via RSS
[19:43:41] <progo> and no one does
[19:44:01] <progo> what's blocking?
[19:44:35] <progo> the html page and the rss both work fine for me in a not-logged-in window
[19:45:47] <progo> lol! ted-ious Big Clive's current latest video is complaining about an "excrutiatingly thin" 5A USB cable
[19:49:36] <progo> oh it's not a usb cable per se. it's "from a product that is known for putting out full mains voltage on a USB phone charging port"
[19:50:39] <ted-ious> It's probably cloudflare blocking as usual.
[19:50:50] <progo> yuck
[19:50:59] <progo> I've never seen the cloudflare nonsense on odysee
[19:51:44] <progo> if I access the NYC "MTA" public transit system web site in Brave on Windows, I get 2 requests and then my home IP address is blacklisted for a day
[19:51:55] <progo> same with Dunkin (dunkindonuts.com) and Subway
[19:52:36] <progo> government incompetence the first one. the other two… I shake my head
[19:52:58] <progo> also Edge for LInux desktop: same result on whatever garbage is blacklisting me on those sites
[19:57:33] <chromas> all usb cables are made in china
[19:57:44] <progo> mostly
[19:57:52] <chromas> 99.99999%
[19:58:13] <progo> some are sold by American vendors that demand safety standards are met
[20:00:22] <progo> story time. this is how chinesium manufacturing works:
[20:00:22] <progo> Jeri Ellsworth is among other things a self-taught chip designer. Someone wanted to build a one-chip Commodore 64 inside a joystick with a composite output. They thought Ellsworth could do it, so they hired her. She delivered her design on time and within budget. Great. They sent it off for manufacturing in China. Everything is all ramped up and
[20:00:22] <progo> the first batch is failing to work, completely.
[20:00:26] <progo> why?!
[20:00:38] <progo> the company sends Ellsworth over to China to hopefully sort it out
[20:00:55] <progo> "this isn't my circuit" "oh. we made a substitution. it's the same." "no. it's not"
[20:01:08] <progo> fortunately the production run was able to be saved by a bodge wire
[20:03:40] <progo> btw I think what they shipped was a board with basic parts and an FPGA. didn't manufacture a project-specific ASIC
[20:04:10] <Fnord666> My story? A friend of mine designed a tripod mount for holding smart phones. Sent the design to China to have it manufactured after lots of 3d printing of prototypes. He got back sample runs for approval and they were good. He approved them. Before he got the first batch there were identical copies available on Amazon.
[20:05:05] <progo> yep
[20:05:13] <progo> sounds familiar
[20:07:41] <Fnord666> I think there have been a number of stories of similar things happening for kickstarter projects.
[20:08:25] <Fnord666> Where they choose to manufacture overseas due to costs and/or availability of in country manufacturing.
[20:09:10] <progo> call it IP theft or whatever; it's illegal in China and the government has no inclination to prosecute if the victim owner is foreign
[20:11:05] <ted-ious> If everybody does it is it illegal?
[20:13:43] <progo> de facto not illegal
[20:16:04] <ted-ious> The designer of stolen ip should be able to just sieze all the counterfeit goods that enter the country and do whatever they want with them.
[20:16:21] <ted-ious> That would put a big dent in that kind of behavior.
[20:16:23] <progo> easier said than done
[20:16:46] <ted-ious> Don't they all come on big ships full of containers?
[20:16:55] <ted-ious> There's paperwork for all of that I'm sure.
[20:17:09] <progo> the hard part is getting the customs enforcement officers to care
[20:17:33] <progo> you have to be a global corporation to make them care
[20:30:05] <ted-ious> Maybe we can fire the ones who don't do their job.
[20:48:23] <ted-ious> https://www.youtube.com
[20:48:24] <systemd> ^ 03How much ink is in Epson cartridges?
[20:48:31] <ted-ious> New video.
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[23:23:41] <ted-ious> progo: Did you watch this one? https://www.youtube.com
[23:23:42] <systemd> ^ 03Dangerous "death Dalek" lights still on eBay
[23:25:57] <progo> ted-ious saw a few minutes of it, today, got distracted