#soylent | Logs for 2023-06-15

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[00:17:16] <Bytram> kolie: What country/countries are the current servers in? Are your plans to keep running there? or do you plan to move it? If so - when and where?
[00:34:13] <Bytram> kolie: Also, I am finding it difficult to "find" you meaning 1) what time zone are you in? 2) I realize thing are subject to change, but are your usual working hours?
[00:36:37] * Bytram is in Eastern Time zone (EDT) and currently tend to be available ~3 PM.
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[02:08:24] <kolie> PST
[02:08:31] <kolie> United States
[02:08:42] <kolie> probably not moving.
[02:09:01] <kolie> 8-5 m-f is a good time to expect me to be around here.
[02:09:32] <kolie> weekends i got my kids. I check stuff but not generally going to do much on weekends unless its a flaming 911.
[02:10:05] <kolie> after 5-6 I'm usually not around a computer
[02:15:29] <kolie2> It probably makes sense for the infrastructure to match the parent country of its legal entity. That and the US has pretty good laws in terms of liability for community content.
[02:31:35] <AzumaHazuki> for now
[02:35:23] <kolie> Anything is for now until otherwise - it's kind of a tautology.
[02:35:58] <kolie> If that situation drastically changes - like anything - it may need to be reevaluated.
[02:36:37] <kolie> Given the inertia of what a change like that would bring - it's not likely to be different for the forseeable future.
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[03:35:38] <Bytram> kolie: Thank You! Was not clear to me: are the servers currently in the USA? Expected to stay in the USA?
[03:42:39] <Bytram> kolie: I would like to offer my services in doing QA/Testing. I would be especially interested in reviewing/extending your currently existing automatic test harness. (It's what I've done for > 25 years.)
[03:43:43] <Bytram> Time for bed; laters!
[04:02:50] <kolie> Currently in usa - probably will stay.
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[05:09:01] <kolie2> what the flying fuck - comment too long
[05:09:05] <kolie2> thats a thing?
[05:10:47] <kolie> https://soylentnews.org
[05:10:48] <systemd> ^ 03Journal of replic8tor (2622)
[05:28:58] <kolie2> AzumaHazuki, fab23 responded to both in janrinoks journal.
[05:43:05] <chromas> Lies detected
[05:43:17] <chromas> This is PDT country
[05:43:41] <kolie2> hmm?
[05:43:53] <kolie2> I'm in pdt my man ;)
[05:45:10] <chromas> Yeah but earlier you said PST so that invalidates everything you've ever said
[05:45:53] <chromas> Unfriended, thumbs down, unsubbed, reported and banned
[05:45:55] <kolie> well sometimes im PST and sometimes im PDT
[05:46:07] <inz> UGT is better
[05:46:07] <kolie> You got me - I play both sides.
[05:49:52] <kolie2> hi inz
[05:53:02] <inz> Morning
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[06:33:16] <kolie2> IRC community vote time: I got the previous testing/editor rehash db data available now.
[06:33:34] <kolie2> Restore to staging or maybe make a new sandbox.soylentnews.org ?
[06:34:11] <kolie> Or something else. Or D) Cowboy neal option.
[06:34:40] <ted-ious> Isn't the goal to have a functioning staging environment?
[06:34:57] <ted-ious> Why would you need to vote about that?
[06:35:21] <kolie> That is happening and outside of the training/sandbox data question.
[06:35:39] <kolie> I was told editors go through editor school and edit a uhh "test" version of SN
[06:35:55] <kolie> Sounds like its a teaching tool and just as important as the production main site.
[06:36:03] <kolie> Might need to be its own "production" level sandbox thing.
[06:36:10] <ted-ious> Why would you need to vote about that either?
[06:36:17] <ted-ious> Just build it.
[06:36:21] <kolie> People like discussing the color of the shed.
[06:36:38] <ted-ious> That's why sn almost failed.
[06:36:39] <kolie> It's obvious to me what to do - but uhh - you know - community governance and shit.
[06:36:52] <kolie> It's not my shed.
[06:36:56] <kolie> It's our shed my boys!
[06:37:01] <ted-ious> The community doesn't own the shed either.
[06:37:19] <ted-ious> But it needs a shed that doesn't leak so maybe you should build one?
[06:37:32] <kolie> I am good at not leaking shed building.
[06:38:01] <ted-ious> I think people would have a harder time attacking you if you proved that by building one.
[06:38:30] <ted-ious> But if you ask for votes on things like that you're never going to get anywhere.
[06:38:30] <kolie2> That's what I've been doing but then people tell me I don't talk or post or involve people in shit posting.
[06:38:51] <ted-ious> I think you missed their point then.
[06:38:54] <kolie2> And then you get the products of peoples imaginations like janrinoks journal.
[06:38:59] <ted-ious> What they want is regular progress reports.
[06:39:05] <kolie2> I think they just like having points and sticking them in.
[06:39:12] <ted-ious> Tell them what is happening and how things are getting better.
[06:39:26] <kolie2> I have been - or so i thought - doing more of that.
[06:39:45] <kolie2> Like me telling people I recovered the sandbox data.
[06:39:49] <kolie2> Or that it's going in tommorow.
[06:39:52] <ted-ious> They want to see a post on the front page once a week.
[06:39:54] <kolie2> And that editors can train again.
[06:40:12] <ted-ious> If you did that 90% of your problems would go away.
[06:40:23] <kolie2> Doubtful but this weeks post is out.
[06:41:08] <kolie2> The people complaining are the people I've been communicating most with and have the most direct knowledge of what I've been doing.
[06:42:37] <kolie2> Ari likes me. Hell has frozen over.
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[07:34:22] <kolie> Alright family #2 I'm off for the night. Spread the good word. kolie and what kolie knows of NC's plan: no one is trying to monetize the site or its data. private data is staying right where its always been, inside sn and sn's servers.
[07:40:22] <chromas> Yeah but it's going from Linode to physical servers, which are apparently going to be transported somewhere
[07:41:27] <kolie> Nah
[07:41:31] <kolie> Linode is physical servers.
[07:41:40] <kolie> A physicer server, runs software, to multiplex the os.
[07:41:57] <chromas> no it's magical buttcloud on the blockchain
[07:42:01] <kolie> My physical server, in a datacenter similar to linoes, will run software similar to linoes, to run make the same software.
[07:42:33] <kolie> Literally implementing the same tech - and that's not even happened yet.
[07:42:36] <kolie> Just a plan.
[07:43:07] <kolie2> peace friends and foes.
[07:43:46] <ted-ious> What does linode use to manage all their vm's?
[07:43:49] <chromas> /nick kolie0
[07:44:12] <kolie> linode uses kvm
[07:44:15] <kolie> They migrated from xen.
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[07:44:55] <kolie> Prod staging will almost certainly be using kvm going forward as well.
[07:45:07] <kolie> the other options are esxi and hyperv.
[07:45:14] <kolie> HyperV is dumb as shit for this so why.
[07:45:21] <kolie> ESX is expensive and not needed.
[07:45:28] <ted-ious> I would expect linode to have some proprietary system that uses kvm or xen.
[07:45:30] <kolie> KVM solid AF.
[07:45:42] <kolie> They use KVM with a custom api pushing the buttons.
[07:46:01] <ted-ious> So you have a proprietary api too?
[07:46:30] <ted-ious> I guess that makes sense if you have a hosting company.
[07:46:40] <kolie> If we are getting into bike sheds - I do have a custom API.
[07:46:43] <kolie> But I wouldnt use it here.
[07:46:53] <kolie> Staging RN uses kvm via proxmox.
[07:47:46] <kolie> But yea got into the custom api game before kvm existed actually. Back for shell hosting and game servers.
[07:48:15] <kolie2> alright really going to bed now its 1am and I gotta take the kids early in the morning to their mom.
[07:48:25] <kolie2> peace.
[07:50:51] <janrinok> kolie - if you had answered all of our questions the first time we asked them, without getting confused by not linking "2nd money stream" and "commercialization" as being precisely the same thing, then we wouldn't have to speculate, would we?
[07:52:42] <janrinok> And somebody has just asked you where our data is now and where it will be eventually. In the 'US' is your reply. Do you really think that is a full answer? On whose equipment, located where, why is it moving?
[07:53:52] <janrinok> Don't snipe at what I said "could" happen when you are not prepared to tell people who ask you what "will" happen. I have passed on all the information I have. Some people on here haven't seen it yet. Perhaps you could just answer their questions sometimes?
[07:54:36] <janrinok> This is why progress is slow!
[07:56:23] <janrinok> "There is a problem with communication still. I do not think that this is obstructive but represents a different appreciation of the problems we face and what information we each seek from the other. It is not yet overcome but things are slowly getting better."
[07:56:52] <janrinok> See what I wrote? Do you now understand why I wrote it?
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[08:29:09] <kolie2> bytram asked specifically for the ckuntry/countries.
[08:29:58] <kolie2> im prepared and have been answering. nothings changed there.
[08:31:35] <kolie2> 2nd money stream/commercialization is important
[08:31:58] <kolie2> raising momey may need to happen someday. its not a bad thing. conflating that with privacy issues is a prpblem
[08:32:28] <kolie2> i want to be clear tbat if and when money is discussed, its not generated by selling data.
[08:32:46] <kolie2> stuff like subs or other community approved directions is the way forward on that.
[08:33:49] <kolie2> now indont see the need for that now or in the future sonpretty much a non issie to begin with.
[08:34:28] <kolie2> nc has some.ideas that maybrequire money, they are ideas, and he might have ideas for how to raise money.
[08:35:05] <ted-ious> So he's going to stay as the owner of the pbc and continue to run the site.
[08:35:06] <kolie2> we talked about it, and the jist was, we dffer on that necessity, but not at he cost of privacy/data ever.
[08:35:34] <kolie2> ive addressed that in depth he is now and ii like to change that in the future
[08:35:46] <kolie2> and am working towards that end and nc is aware
[08:36:19] <ted-ious> But you don't have a transition date so everything else is just smoke.
[08:36:31] <kolie2> im not buying ownership
[08:36:52] <ted-ious> No he was supposed to step down completely and transfer it.
[08:37:05] <kolie2> its the realest thing going forward. call it smoke or farts or whatever you please.
[08:37:12] <ted-ious> But that's not happening now so nobody has any reason to trust that things are going to change.
[08:37:15] <kolie2> yea thats what im working towards
[08:37:46] <kolie2> well if insont do the work or i give up or die its not happening
[08:38:05] <kolie2> it could happen another way, i have a path and im pursuing it
[08:38:10] <ted-ious> But you're working towards something that isn't a transition date so that sounds we're just waiting for the next time nc gets annoyed and does something destructive.
[08:38:32] <kolie2> i could involveatt at that point
[08:38:38] <kolie2> and nc doesmt want to shutdown
[08:38:41] <kolie2> and mever dis
[08:38:46] <kolie2> it was aeans to an end
[08:39:09] <kolie2> his involvent isnt based on dates
[08:39:09] <ted-ious> Your voice recognition isn't working and I can't understand what you're trying to say.
[08:39:30] <kolie2> his involvment is based on security of the sites future.
[08:39:44] <kolie2> my work is that security
[08:39:47] <ted-ious> Instead of trying to win a debate by speaking faster than everyone else maybe you could take your time and write some clear statements.
[08:40:22] <kolie2> im in bed on a phone on double rdp typing on a virtual keyboard and not debating just spreading facts
[08:40:37] <ted-ious> If his involvement isn't based on dates then that means he's going to still be in control as long as he wants.
[08:40:46] <kolie2> nothing to ein. ebats happening is happening.
[08:40:48] <kolie2> win*
[08:41:18] <kolie2> hes told me what it takes for him to not be involved. i can give him that.
[08:41:39] <ted-ious> He didn't tell us so maybe you could.
[08:41:55] <kolie2> he explained all his concerns in his posts
[08:42:08] <kolie2> and i can explain them furthwr tmw
[08:42:39] <ted-ious> I have found that when somebody can point to a large pile of documents and say that the answer is in there that they don't actually want to give you the answer.
[08:42:45] <kolie2> all i did is read his posts and said let me do that for you.
[08:43:11] <kolie2> im in bed its 1:30am if you want the answer ill give it tmw
[08:43:21] <chromas> We're a little skeptical of his posts because he's walked away and come back several times
[08:43:26] <ted-ious> That's great and good night.
[08:43:41] <kolie2> hes all over the place.
[08:43:45] <kolie2> agreed.
[08:44:15] <kolie2> theres consistency and logic and hes never waivered on that with me.
[08:44:41] <ted-ious> I thought you were going to take over and implement some kind of plan not enable the continuation of the horrible system in place.
[08:44:42] <chromas> Paranoia and not communicating with his team
[08:45:01] <kolie2> and officially his change will need to happen in the pbc structure so hes not holding the gun anymore
[08:45:21] <kolie2> and hes fine making that happen and matt isnon board eoth that as well
[08:46:11] <ted-ious> But it's been months and that hasn't happened yet.
[08:46:42] <ted-ious> So obviously he doesn't want to give up control if he thinks somebody else will do the work of fixing the servers.
[08:46:47] <kolie2> hes not rolling over and giving it up. so next best thing i got is this. i just start
[08:46:48] <janrinok> We are getting the answers slowly. So there is no deadline, only unstated milestones. And at the moment nothing changes. Can you see why the negotiations are moving so slowly?
[08:47:51] <janrinok> I have replied to several comments an hour or two back which indicates what I think we need to see before we can all sign up to the current vague plans.
[08:48:23] <kolie2> ill read it later.
[08:48:56] <chromas> yes, get your Zs already, mister!
[08:49:14] <kolie2> negotiations arent slow or stalled. we know whats going on. we are doing the work towards it.
[08:50:09] <kolie2> my journal addressed that re whats going on work wise. those items solve a lot of ncs problems in handing over pbc roles. and avoiding shutdown.
[08:52:10] <janrinok> ted-ious, negotiations are slow - nothing has changed regarding the leadership of this site. The same person is still pulling the same strings, and can switch the site off anytime they choose.
[08:53:17] <chromas> The tale of two CEOs
[08:53:40] <janrinok> Having new hardware is only one part of the overall package. That is moving on. The other bits are not progressing as quickly as we hoped because we do not know what the 'milestones' are, or what will happen when they are achieved.
[08:54:31] <janrinok> We are expected to agree to something that is even known yet. Perhaps unsurprisingly, we are not prepared to do that.
[08:59:14] <janrinok> We do not even know the extent of kolie's contract. Is it just to containerise the software, is it to also create an alternative server host? At what stage the contract end? How much of this is because kolie wants to help, or is because he is contracted to help?
[08:59:57] <janrinok> There is nothing wrong in him having altruistic aims, but we don't know that that is actually the case.
[09:00:55] <kolie2> i can tell you what nc wants and what ive signed up for.
[09:01:04] <kolie2> ill eleborste tmw if asked.
[09:01:33] <kolie2> im also pressing for firmer dates and expediting outside involvement.
[09:01:47] <janrinok> go to sleep - it can wait until tomorrow!
[09:02:02] <kolie2> kids are awake so still bsing here
[09:02:09] <janrinok> OK, your call
[09:02:12] <chromas> Yeah go to sleep. We want to talk about you behind your back, not in front of it
[09:02:17] <janrinok> lol
[09:03:05] <janrinok> How long have you been working on this, and today you say you can now tell us what the contract entails? What has changed.
[09:03:32] <kolie2> im asking rn to -based on whats already happening and for the good of the community - immediate board involvement so i can personally guarentee its existence.
[09:04:02] <janrinok> That is good news, and I wish you luck.
[09:05:11] <kolie2> i can based on previous exemptions discuss the scope ofnwhat ove been asked to do.
[09:06:21] <kolie2> alright kids are put again so my turn. see ypu next boogey man nightmare.
[09:08:17] <janrinok> that would be useful - when you have the time
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[10:06:47] <sylvest> Taking all the marbles, and going home? Sounds like SN is about to become a VC's hobby.
[10:08:03] <janrinok> you wouldn't understand - this is about community.
[10:11:42] <sylvest> I'd spam mod that!
[10:15:30] <Ingar> so you admit you're just a filtyh spammer
[10:15:35] <Ingar> *filthy
[10:15:59] <Ingar> pray I never get ops
[10:16:55] -!- mode/#soylent [+o Ingar] by Imogen
[10:18:58] -!- sylvest was kicked from #soylent by Ingar!~ingar@51.15.nj.ri [spammer]
[10:21:02] <Ingar> yes, I have been IRC opper, and forum admin, and a notorious BOFH
[10:21:18] -!- mode/#soylent [-o Ingar] by Ingar
[10:21:48] <chromas> He even takes his hat off when he's done with it
[10:22:00] <chromas> I'm so proud of you, son. You were raise well
[10:22:11] * chromas picks up the d he dropped
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[10:22:26] <Ingar> thank you for your kidnness, sir
[10:22:31] <Ingar> lol
[10:22:33] <Ingar> hi ari
[10:22:48] <chromas> oh maybe we need to rile him up a bit before kicking
[10:23:04] <Ingar> nah, in the next stage we use /ignore
[10:23:56] <chromas> we could always give it the ol' +r
[10:24:59] <aristarchus> Some things for kolie to consider. That is all.
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[13:21:52] <Bytram> karmabot: ted-ious: *THAT*! Regular updates on plans and progress! That's exactly what I've been saying! Unfortunately, I can't hang around (DR appt and meetings) TTYL!
[13:23:50] <Bytram> Q: Does kolie == kolie2 or are they diff people? Why 2 names?
[13:24:06] <Bytram> bye!
[13:25:17] <janrinok> jason = kolie = kolie2 . It depends where he logs on from I think.
[13:25:44] <janrinok> He is also muckmuck on our alternative IRC
[13:25:59] <fab23> the good old times with multiple computers each having their own GUI IRC client :)
[13:26:54] <fab23> <- using WeeChat in a tmux session
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[14:57:01] <Ingar> weechat, but in screen, because I'm old school
[15:00:25] <fab23> Ingar: some mouse click stuff did not work in screen, so for me tmus (with iTerm2, used Apple Terminal.app before) is what worked at the end.
[15:00:37] <fab23> s/tmus/tmux/
[15:03:13] <requerdanos> I think there's more to it than just having multiple clients, I think he runs one client per IRC server so the clients are on different servers. could be wrong.
[15:04:51] <fab23> requerdanos: my IRC client is in multiple IRC networks as well, and most of the time online :)
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[16:45:30] <kolie> muckmuck is a throw away.
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[16:57:01] <kolie> So a lot is changing - in a very positive way in our negotiations.
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[17:07:24] <kolie> What's going on is basically an extension of what was discussed yesterday.
[17:07:29] <kolie> I just got off an hour call with NC.
[17:08:12] <requerdanos> thanks for taking the time to do that.
[17:09:56] <kolie> Ok so lot to dump but im busy today. I have a meeting rn just going to say this.
[17:10:39] <kolie> I spoke with NC - I have asked for a board position. He individually proposed that I take the COO board roll. I accepted his offer. The offer is pending his discussion with Matt who has not yet signed off on this as we just spoke of it.
[17:11:06] <kolie> If that gets approved - my first act will be to hold a community / board discussion. Ad hoc but officially acting.
[17:11:30] <kolie> The board will have a meeting - and we will accept a pre submitted list of questions which will be answered one by one.
[17:11:52] <kolie> I got a lot to say and this opens up a lot of different possibilities and discussions.
[17:12:11] <kolie> But it was super positive call today and we can address some on going concerns while continuing to make progress to a better site.
[17:12:37] <kolie> This overrides a lot of our previous agreements and discussions if it goes through.
[17:13:14] <kolie> Mainly wrt the work I am doing in return for board etc - those discussions are moot if this is put into place and I can speak for the PBC in an official capacity and not just interpreting and at the foot of its members.
[17:13:50] <kolie> I'll be back in a bit - but i am very busy today and my sister is graduating so definitely after 3:30 PST I will be un available. I will try to make time to be here before then but I have a few meetings outside of SN.
[17:13:52] <kolie> peace.
[17:14:37] <requerdanos> peace.
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[18:18:07] <AlwaysNever> I have a question for kolie, who speaks with NC: Has NC said anything about him going away relinquising any "ownership" rights, or will he just eventually go away to return a long while after and stirr the pot again?
[18:24:23] <janrinok> Hang on - things are changing quickly at the moment. kolie will let us all know in the next few hour hopefully, but certainly by tomorrow.
[18:26:44] <AlwaysNever> Ok, we will wait for God's Messenger, for God himself has shunned us and won't talk to us.
[18:27:42] <janrinok> lol
[19:18:23] * Ingar sticks fist in the air and yells "Damn You!"
[19:19:17] <kolie> AlwaysNever - uhm - AlwaysNever without getting into specifics - Yes we addressed exactly the first part of your quesiton.
[19:19:34] <Ingar> there, it worked!
[19:20:11] <janrinok> Ingar talks to God - and God listens. Now that is different
[19:20:13] <kolie> There isn't a decision there - it's been discussed - both parties are open to situations where that exists and it's an active topic of discussion.
[19:20:46] <kolie> I made a heavy handed jesture to that direction this morning.
[19:21:01] <janrinok> nah, it was Ingar wot did it!
[19:21:27] <kolie> Trying to be open without saying too much just because this is literally a conversation between two people being frank and not worrying about what we are saying so we can explore all opportunities in earnest.
[19:21:49] <Ingar> it this point, things need to run their cause
[19:21:51] <Ingar> *at
[19:22:31] <Ingar> this is where the Faith parts comes in
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[19:23:04] <kolie> yea I mean - I've mentioned what my goals are - my direction and steering - I've heard what people here want and have directly brought that - the goals I'm working towards are well known by people here are large.
[19:23:29] <kolie> Everythings been progressing as I've been alluding too and some of it has - it appears pending tonight - greatly advanced in the favor of these efforts.
[19:28:59] <kolie2> I expect a front page post by NC today or tmw announcing the results of his conversation and the outline of a meeting of the board with community questions - as that's more or less what we discussed if the PBC elects me.
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[20:50:05] <kolie> Any stirring rebellions or coup brewing that I can address ?
[20:50:13] <kolie> I got a couple minutes.
[20:51:29] <kolie> Also what's the deal with c0lo. He's got some bug?
[20:51:54] <requerdanos> aiui he doesn't ever get mod points
[20:52:11] <kolie> and no one flagged him "cant mod for shit"?
[20:52:21] <requerdanos> nope, he should be good to go
[20:52:29] <kolie> I've got 10 I never use.
[20:52:33] <kolie> How often do I get more.
[20:52:49] <requerdanos> "You have 10 Moderator Points.
[20:52:49] <requerdanos> You get 10 points per day, given out at 00:10 UTC. "
[20:53:02] <kolie> Did it used to be more sporadic/random?
[20:53:09] <kolie> Maybe that was a /. thing.
[20:53:21] <kolie> I mod occasionally - not a serial modder.
[20:55:29] <requerdanos> my memory doesn't stretch into the mists of time, but that said, I do not recall it every being different than 10 points at 00:10.
[20:56:10] <mechanicjay> So...
[20:56:45] <kolie> mj - where is the job that adds mod points?
[20:57:10] <kolie> is it a Schedule::Cron
[20:57:14] <mechanicjay> one of the things that slashd does is dole out modpoints at 00:10 UTC. There a number of vars which control who and how much, if you select * from vars where name like 'm1%'; you should get a good idea
[20:58:15] <mechanicjay> basically you can dole out to some randome % of users, dole to people with a minimum karma rating, decide how many to give out, decide how many people can have at any one time at which point they won't be given any more -- a mod bank if you will
[20:58:40] <kolie> sure - where is that code though in RE#
[20:59:07] <mechanicjay> beats the hell out of me :-D
[20:59:19] <kolie> ASking but already digging in.
[20:59:26] <mechanicjay> understood
[20:59:45] <kolie> Promise no one shit canned c0lo's mod option? lol.
[21:02:29] <requerdanos> kolie, try looking here at moderation ban date: https://soylentnews.org
[21:02:31] <systemd> ^ 03c0lo - SoylentNews User
[21:02:54] <kolie> theres other ways ;)
[21:03:02] <requerdanos> (assuming your access level is high enough) -- a date of 1000-01-01 is in the past which means should be good to go.
[21:03:23] <requerdanos> other ways -- therein may lie the solution
[21:03:42] <mechanicjay> Oh, I think he has too many negative tokens
[21:03:42] <kolie> Yea I mean if its intentional whatever if its a thing I'm curious and exhaistove.
[21:03:48] <kolie> That's possible.
[21:03:57] <kolie> I don't get the specifics on tokens yet.
[21:04:07] <mechanicjay> There's a token thing in there too, which is someone loosely related to karma? Maybe?
[21:04:28] <mechanicjay> Yeah, I don't understand them either, but I expect if his tokens get set to 0, he'll be able to mod again
[21:04:54] <kolie> do you know anything about them?
[21:06:57] <mechanicjay> tokens or the user?
[21:07:26] <kolie> tokens.
[21:07:37] <kolie> I know everything and more than I ever wants about the users lol.
[21:07:38] <mechanicjay> this is wierd, the var m1_eligible_percentage is set to .3 on the live site right now -- that's unexpected
[21:08:00] <mechanicjay> ha, no i've only recently became aware of tokens as I've been spelunking around
[21:09:14] <kolie> .3 either means its not set in the constants
[21:09:18] <kolie> or its .3 in the db.
[21:09:57] <kolie> And let me examine the algorithm to see how it works.
[21:10:30] <mechanicjay> that .3 comes right out of the db -- there maybe a constant that's overriding that?
[21:11:02] <kolie> my $mod_percentage = $constants->{m1_eligible_percentage} || 0.30;
[21:11:11] <kolie> Wanna take it to #dev?
[21:13:14] <AlwaysNever> OK, thanks kolie for relaying NC's point of view.
[21:14:56] <AlwaysNever> kolie: I would like you to ask NC, if he in going to stay for "some time", what is NC going to do about addressing the staff and talking to them? And please tell him that saying "my communication channel is open" does not cut it
[21:15:57] <kolie> So we are going to have a board meeting - if I get my election approved.
[21:16:09] <kolie> I suggest that be included to be addressed at that meeting.
[21:17:34] <kolie> As far as what he personally will do?
[21:17:54] <kolie> I'm taking steps - if elected - to open up the board process again and get the involvement back.
[21:18:13] <kolie> And that probably means appointing - I'd like to submit to the board - a messaging commitee.
[21:19:01] <kolie> They are responsible for communication into and out of the board and staff and the community - I'd like to see it so its responsible for enforcing the bylaws and vision of the PBC and making sure the board does that and all messaging goes through it.
[21:29:37] <AlwaysNever> I suggest ammending or refactoring the "bylaws" so in the PBC there is a non-revokable, annually renovable, chair for a staff member, elected amont the Staff team themselves, without vote but with voice in all PCM meetings.
[21:30:26] <AlwaysNever> that, just to begin to make thing saner
[21:34:24] <kolie> Yea I mean that's the idea.
[21:34:36] <kolie> I think the subcommitees is going to be board member + several staff.
[21:34:51] <kolie> And i know theres been talk about more board members
[21:35:02] <kolie> Lots to figure out.
[21:35:10] <kolie> I need to get a lot more familiar with the bylaws then I already am.
[21:36:47] <AlwaysNever> A non-vote, yes-voice chair in the PBC for an elected Staff member would avoid keeping the Staff Team in the dark, and would not "risk" any of the "owner's interests"
[21:38:12] <AlwaysNever> I think that easier and cheaper in time and effort than creating a commitee
[21:44:28] <kolie> SOmething to explore.
[21:44:50] <kolie> I mention subcoms because that takes power otherwise amibiuously in the PBC and solidifies and codifies who and what and basically is all community chaired.
[21:45:02] <kolie> Basically delegating it down.
[21:45:29] <kolie> And they can take concerns issues etc and address them as such in the regular board.
[21:45:43] <kolie> ok gtg peace.
[21:46:35] <AlwaysNever> But it's essential for a Staff memmber to be present at all PCM meetings, even if without voting rights, to give input into decission and also to keep the Staff Team aware of what is going on
[21:46:50] <AlwaysNever> *PBC meetings
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