#soylent | Logs for 2023-06-13
« return
[00:00:54] * AlwaysNever goes to bed
[00:02:34] <chromas> ted-ious: no, but nobody's bothered to get slash running before either. it took a madman
[00:03:36] <chromas> I still think we need a -0, Douché mod
[00:03:48] <chromas> and -1, Inciteful
[00:18:30] -!- lilitsyunetsi [lilitsyunetsi!~lilitsyun@37.252.sq.ypj] has parted #soylent
[00:52:08] -!- lilitsyunetsi [lilitsyunetsi!~lilitsyun@37.252.sq.ypj] has joined #soylent
[00:53:36] -!- lilitsyunetsi [lilitsyunetsi!~lilitsyun@37.252.sq.ypj] has parted #soylent
[01:02:15] -!- lilitsyunetsi [lilitsyunetsi!~lilitsyun@37.252.sq.ypj] has joined #soylent
[01:02:23] -!- lilitsyunetsi [lilitsyunetsi!~lilitsyun@37.252.sq.ypj] has parted #soylent
[02:19:06] -!- norayr [norayr!~norayr@37.252.sq.ypj] has parted #soylent
[02:19:34] -!- norayr [norayr!~norayr@37.252.sq.ypj] has joined #soylent
[05:10:07] -!- Runaway1956 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[05:12:06] -!- Runaway1956 [Runaway1956!~some@the.abyss.stares.back] has joined #soylent
[06:10:29] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[06:41:12] -!- AzumaHazuki has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[06:42:31] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[06:42:43] -!- lilitsyunetsi [lilitsyunetsi!~lilitsyun@37.252.sq.ypj] has joined #soylent
[06:43:40] -!- AzumaHazuki has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[06:44:15] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[07:19:22] -!- sylvest [sylvest!~sylvester@149.34.jyp.jkp] has joined #soylent
[07:20:07] <sylvest> End of the world as we know it, or same shit, different day?
[07:20:35] <janrinok> email is so fast nowadays...
[07:21:08] <sylvest> Unless they just do not want to communicate with you.
[07:21:54] <janrinok> I was referring to the less than 2 minutes from me sending an email to you appearing on here whinging. That is something of a record even for you.
[07:22:29] <sylvest> What email are you referring to?
[07:22:56] <janrinok> Good day sir, I said "Good Day"
[07:23:18] <sylvest> Like I said, they just do not want to communicate with you. Wonder why?
[07:32:47] <sylvest> I will talk to you, though, jan.
[08:01:15] -!- AzumaHazuki has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[08:20:58] -!- technoid_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[08:22:37] -!- technoid_ [technoid_!~technoid_@gcpsxumk.nettek.io] has joined #soylent
[08:27:29] <sylvest> Why isn't NCommander here?
[08:28:10] <chromas> Why would he be here?
[08:28:58] <chromas> This is the place staff communicate with each other
[08:30:31] <sylvest> So NCommander is banned? Or not welcome? I do not understand
[08:30:41] <chromas> You never do
[08:31:15] <sylvest> I do now, thanks to your help!
[08:39:29] <sylvest> What do you do on staff, chromas? I never see your username on anything. Public Relations? (Firefly ref!)
[08:39:58] <chromas> s/l//
[08:52:05] <sylvest> So, of the TMB persuasion, I take it?
[09:29:35] -!- sylvest has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[10:57:58] <AlwaysNever> what's up with sylvest? I sense some perturbance in the force...
[11:23:19] -!- lilitsyunetsi [lilitsyunetsi!~lilitsyun@37.252.sq.ypj] has parted #soylent
[11:25:11] -!- lilitsyunetsi [lilitsyunetsi!~lilitsyun@37.252.sq.ypj] has joined #soylent
[11:43:18] <janrinok> It is one of Ari's pseudonyms - it is a repeated sock pupplet account
[11:46:17] -!- norayr [norayr!~norayr@37.252.sq.ypj] has parted #soylent
[11:52:13] <AlwaysNever> Hmm, I don't really know who Ari is, and I suspect my ignorance is my bliss
[11:59:16] <Ingar> ted-ious: every now and themn, I pop off all the keycaps from my keyb and put those in the dishwasher
[12:00:03] <Ingar> I use the cutlery drawer though to prevent them from floating away
[12:01:50] <ted-ious> Smart!
[12:06:28] <janrinok> Ari (aristarchus) was an account that was banned in Feb 2022 for doxxing another community member. He has attempted to create several hundred sock puppets since then. They are usually easily detected and disabled - as was the case this morning.
[12:07:27] <janrinok> It is the only account to have ever been permanently banned from SoylentNews.
[12:08:20] <janrinok> See https://soylentnews.org
[12:08:24] <systemd> ^ 03DECISION – ‘aristarchus’ - SoylentNews
[13:24:07] <AlwaysNever> janrinok: Ok, thanks for the info; the Interrubes are indeed a hostile place to be.
[13:24:30] <AlwaysNever> *Intertubes
[13:24:46] <janrinok> I knew what you meant :)
[13:25:13] <AlwaysNever> :-)
[13:25:55] -!- norayr [norayr!~norayr@37.252.sq.ypj] has joined #soylent
[13:36:53] <AlwaysNever> Here is an article on the rise and fall of Barrapunto.com, the Spanish clone of Slashdot: https://www.xataka.com (Whatch out! Spanish spoken there!)
[13:36:54] <systemd> ^ 03En el principio fue Barrapunto: "llenamos un vacío que nadie ha recuperado"
[13:38:12] <janrinok> not one of my languages sorry - but others might enjoy it
[13:38:55] <AlwaysNever> Perhaps Google Translate can do something with it...
[13:44:43] <fab23> or DeepL :)
[13:46:16] <janrinok> That would probably use all my free limit on DeepL. I have an account but I only use it for specific software.
[13:47:40] <fab23> I most of the time only translate single words, or sometimes a short sentence, with the free and without account
[14:02:58] -!- lilitsyunetsi [lilitsyunetsi!~lilitsyun@37.252.sq.ypj] has parted #soylent
[14:17:34] <AlwaysNever> In reading that review of Barrapunto.com's history (which no longer exists), it says that it reached a point where it was needed to professionalize it to (try to) make it viable
[14:17:57] <AlwaysNever> even then, they failed
[14:18:05] <janrinok> we are viable - we just don't make a profit
[14:18:36] <janrinok> we have covered all out debts - well the treasurer hasn't said that we haven't
[14:19:13] <AlwaysNever> janrinok: yes, but the burden on your shoulder in inhumane
[14:19:56] <janrinok> ?
[14:20:41] <janrinok> not sure what you mean. It might have needed some 'encouragement' but we always managed it in the end.
[14:20:42] <AlwaysNever> if SN depends on the sheer heroism of a couple of persons, it is not really so viable
[14:21:40] <janrinok> it depends on which couple of people you are talking about. Are you suggesting the Board, Staff, or just a handful of our community?
[14:21:45] <AlwaysNever> I mean it should be easy to keep alive, for it to be kept alive
[14:22:23] <AlwaysNever> I am talking about the editors which hare the ones keeping the hight standard
[14:23:10] <janrinok> We don't mind working hard for the community. I didn't complain but I was getting tired. Others have stepped up to help and it is all running fine again now.
[14:23:45] <janrinok> I don't want to work hard to make a profit for somebody else, or to be ignored.
[14:24:03] <janrinok> I don't think that is an unreasonable position
[14:24:09] <AlwaysNever> yes, I know it is working, but you cannot deny it is alive by sheer will of it to be alive
[14:24:56] <janrinok> we have ups and downs. The straw that broke the camel's back was somebody trashing the site in November and not be able/willing to fix it again.
[14:25:15] -!- lilitsyunetsi [lilitsyunetsi!~lilitsyun@37.252.sq.ypj] has joined #soylent
[14:25:33] <janrinok> But I agree, more staff and more support will always be welcome.
[14:27:05] <janrinok> we are prepared to start again if it is necessary - but we are hoping that it will all get resolved amicably and without changing the ethos of the site.
[14:27:19] <AlwaysNever> staff should be compensated, perhaps not a full time jobs, but they should be compensated
[14:28:20] <janrinok> maybe - but I was happy to do what I was doing for free. I am not happy about doing it for free for the 'shareholders' or for anyone else looking to turn a quick profit.
[14:28:58] <janrinok> And at the moment I do not know what anybody's motives are. They will not tell me or the community.
[14:29:29] <AlwaysNever> janrinok: I understand - but that it also the problem, you put an unreasonable amount of effort into it - it should not be so hard if it is really viable per se.
[14:31:16] <AlwaysNever> anyway, I don't think I have the fortitude to migrate to a new site/platform/place
[14:31:58] <janrinok> OK, I can see your point. I didn't get into this to make money at all. What made it far more difficult is that in November we lost the development system which meant I cannot train NEW editors. We had one lined up. He has since walked away. That extra person would have been very handy.
[14:32:20] <AlwaysNever> and I am a bare user, just that, what could be easier than migrating for a user - still, the mental strain of thinking about it is just taxing
[14:32:37] <janrinok> We still haven't got a representative development system.
[14:32:46] -!- norayr [norayr!~norayr@37.252.sq.ypj] has parted #soylent
[14:33:07] -!- norayr [norayr!~norayr@37.252.sq.ypj] has joined #soylent
[14:33:46] <janrinok> If it ever comes to that - and we all wish it will not - you can be moved with your existing nickname and userid. The only thing that will change will be the URL and perhaps the display colour.
[14:34:28] <janrinok> But we are jumping the gun a little bit now. One step at a time.
[14:34:48] <AlwaysNever> janrinok: in case that scenario comes to pass, I think you are aware that a LOT of people will be lost in the "transition"...
[14:35:26] <janrinok> yes, maybe. I don't know why you think a LOT, but I cannot say that you are wrong.
[14:36:08] <AlwaysNever> Oh God, I hope it all gets resolved well
[14:36:26] <janrinok> This site will still be here. But it might not be the site that it was. Nobody will tell me what they want to do in the future or how they will achieve it. That is today's problem
[14:37:40] <AlwaysNever> Today's problem is NCommander solipsism
[14:38:47] <janrinok> I am not saying it is any one person, but I am not disagreeing with you either.
[14:43:53] -!- SoyCow2718 [SoyCow2718!~soycow@925-300-434-342.ubr6.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined #soylent
[14:45:04] <AlwaysNever> To me it's clear that SN is based on the editor's efforts, that effort brings in the comments, and the people come for bot the editor's picks and the people's comments
[14:45:54] <AlwaysNever> I don't see what a "site owner" can think than can be accomplished without the editor's support
[14:48:56] <AlwaysNever> Reddit has 2,000 employeed, Reddit's owner can mark a path; not the case of SN
[14:50:06] <janrinok> I don't think that is even a consideration. If someone wants to they can sell advertising, or page clicks, and train their own editors. I am not indispensable. Others can make their own decisions.
[14:51:37] <janrinok> But it is a big unknown because nobody wants to tell us what the plans are for the future.
[14:54:13] <AlwaysNever> janrinok: you should do a 1:1 Zoom videochat with NCommander and no one gets up until a mutual understanding is reached
[14:55:52] -!- SoyCow2718 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[14:56:30] -!- SoyCow2718 [SoyCow2718!~soycow@925-300-434-342.ubr6.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined #soylent
[14:56:32] <SoyCow2718> =submit https://arstechnica.com
[14:56:34] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Hackers Can Steal Cryptographic Keys by Video-recording Power LEDs 60 Feet Away" (9p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:56:53] <SoyCow2718> =submit https://arstechnica.com
[14:56:55] <systemd> SoyCow2718, 04submit failed: Duuuuuuuupe!
[15:00:21] <janrinok> He knows how to contact me if he wants to exchange views - doesn't want to talk to any of us. I am not keen on Zoom for this though.
[15:03:19] -!- SoyCow2718 has quit [Quit: See ya later]
[15:08:18] -!- lilitsyunetsi [lilitsyunetsi!~lilitsyun@37.252.sq.ypj] has parted #soylent
[16:02:55] <kolie> Nah you could definitely talk to him if you wanted. He would take it.
[16:04:28] <kolie> That's how I got to him.
[16:04:41] -!- lilitsyunetsi [lilitsyunetsi!~lilitsyun@37.252.sq.ypj] has joined #soylent
[16:12:22] -!- halibut has quit [Quit: Timeout]
[16:17:10] -!- halibut [halibut!~halibut@CanHazVHOST/halibut] has joined #soylent
[17:19:04] -!- norayr [norayr!~norayr@37.252.sq.ypj] has parted #soylent
[18:13:27] <chromas> Nn the other hand, he knows where to find us and could definitely talk to us if he wanted. We would take it.
[18:13:45] <chromas> AlwaysNever: You were right the first time, ari's definitely an interrube
[20:09:25] <AlwaysNever> kolie: what's the deal? Are you going to be handed the site, or is NCommander intention to stay?
[20:16:19] <AlwaysNever> kolie: Will NCommander keep posting articles in the front page? I think he should relinquish that right, for his is not in the Editor's team.
[20:18:14] <kolie> I believe there is a process for electing editors and such.
[20:18:22] <kolie> I imagine there is an exit process for them as well?
[20:18:41] <kolie> I don't know the process on that off hand probably refer to staff on that one.
[20:19:29] <AlwaysNever> I don't know about those processes, but it looks like kind of a co-option "process" to get inducted into the Editor's team
[20:19:31] <kolie> The community at large is voicing - at least part of it - the opinion of NC's involvement. I don't know the extent of that or if people don't want him posting articles and the like.
[20:20:02] <requerdanos> I'd say more communication is better. just my opinion of course.
[20:20:43] <kolie> well everything thats happening rn has been communicated.
[20:22:42] <AlwaysNever> requerdanos: I agree. This stand-by situation of I-don't-talk-to-him-because-he-ain't-talking-to-me is kind of childish, for both parts
[20:22:51] <kolie> I'm talking to NC.
[20:23:01] <kolie> Anyone else is welcome to but most don't want to.
[20:26:28] <AlwaysNever> First we were told the PBC had "voted" to disband itself, then the PBC is sacrosant and all important
[20:26:44] <kolie> The PBC did vote.
[20:26:51] <kolie> That vote was undone after I spoke with the PBC
[20:27:33] <kolie> They are in business again for now, and have contracted with me to help get some things underway to a point where the pbc will grace an ongoing sn.org implementation - with or without future involvement from the PBC.
[20:28:14] <kolie> The PBC forsaw a zombie SN and said an end of it's fate is better than that fate. I told them I want to make them comfortable that it wont be a zombie SN.
[20:28:24] <kolie> I don't agree with that interpretation of the future.
[20:28:28] <kolie> But that's what they forsaw.
[20:28:50] <kolie> In either case I believe we can get SN operational in a way that ensures that fate wont happen and the PBC can sign off on its future.
[20:31:07] <AlwaysNever> kolie: "They are in business again for now", ok, but the volunteer staff want to know what's ahead, they want to know towards WHAT are they contributing their effort
[20:31:39] <kolie> Who hasn't been talking about that ?
[20:32:27] <mechanicjay> here's my take:
[20:32:44] <AlwaysNever> The PBC had "voted" to disband itself, now it has undone its vote. Therefore the PBC's vote is random or mutable, highly volatile in any case
[20:32:49] <AlwaysNever> That is NOT reassuring
[20:32:57] <kolie> The PBC didn't have an option to go forward.
[20:33:06] <kolie> They wanted participation.
[20:33:08] <kolie> I volunteered.
[20:33:17] <kolie> They now have a viable option to not close.
[20:33:52] <kolie> I basically read the shutdown notice on SN.org and addressed those issues going forward.
[20:34:01] <AlwaysNever> How is more viable to devote work to a perceived lost cause, that to resign and let the staff figure out a solution by themselves?
[20:34:17] <mechanicjay> The PBC's ownership of the SN site offers certain protections to avoid the site being commercialized. I think there's a worry that "what's next" won't necessarily include those protections.
[20:35:08] <kolie> Who has the intent of commercializing it?
[20:36:23] <mechanicjay> No one that I've heard
[20:36:41] <kolie> That's my understanding as well.
[20:37:19] <mechanicjay> But if the PBC dissolves and passes ownership of the site/assets to another entity, there's a loss of those protections.
[20:37:32] <AlwaysNever> kolie: it's imperative for NC to reconcile with the staff, what's he waiting for?, is his intention to do so?, is he in his way out?
[20:37:53] <mechanicjay> As has been bandied about alot, something or someone needs to legally "own" the site and the data.
[20:38:23] <kolie> Yea so lets say the PBC dissolves and I get control of it - if that scenario was to play out I'd put in similar structure and governance to the intent of the PBC.
[20:38:34] <kolie> I'm along the lines of SN is doing fine don't fuck with it.
[20:39:00] <kolie> I'm not against any change, and I'd like to promote growth and stronger community.
[20:39:17] <AlwaysNever> kolie: but we don't know what the PBC is going to vote or un-vote going forward...
[20:39:19] <kolie> But as far as commercialization and all that - not a direction I'd take it myself.
[20:39:31] <kolie> I mean I have a good idea of what the PBC intends to do.
[20:39:42] <kolie> And I intend to hold a board position soon.
[20:39:50] <kolie> And there is calls for community to join the board as well.
[20:40:05] <kolie> So... be the change you want?
[20:40:10] <mechanicjay> AlwaysNever: This is wny its important for the board to expand.
[20:40:52] <kolie> The PBC has reasons for what it does - it's not willy nilly.
[20:41:07] <kolie> A lot of people have disagreed with its decisions sure - but they had some uhh basis or reason to them.
[20:41:16] <kolie> It's not acting entirely randomlly.
[20:41:27] <kolie> And in all my discussions has been very reasonable - even when we disagree.
[20:41:44] <kolie> The PBC want's nothing more than for SN to continue I can tell you that very specifically.
[20:43:06] <AlwaysNever> I would prefer the PBC to sell the assets to kolie or janrinok or someone of good reputation, for US$1 or the plain cost of the domain name, and having a benevolent dictator in place, frankly. It don't trust an entity which votes and the un-votes its vote.
[20:43:26] <kolie> They had a vote based on current information.
[20:43:32] <kolie> They had another vote based on new information.
[20:43:45] <kolie> I don't see anything particularly odd about that.
[20:44:27] <kolie> I haven't placed a serious offer to buy SN or pursued it greatly in monetary terms. I don't think the PBC is currently of the mind that it can be bought or should be bought.
[20:44:40] <kolie> I could try that approach I guess.
[20:45:23] <kolie> I know and I don't know how much effort was behind it, that money was offered by one of good reputation as you mention, and it was declined.
[20:45:35] <kolie> Perhaps it wasn't pursued hard enough.
[20:47:57] <AlwaysNever> It's hard to understand how the PBC was ready to kill the site, and then it's so hard for them to handle it instead to more willing people
[20:48:33] <kolie> I don't think the PBC has a problem involving people.
[20:48:52] <kolie> Most people don't want to touch it.
[20:49:07] <kolie> As it currently is, based on who is in it.
[20:49:27] <kolie> I have no problem with the parties involved so here I am.
[20:49:39] <AlwaysNever> kolie: because many feel the PBC in unnecessary and only serves the purpose of delaying thing behind a legal screen
[20:49:47] <kolie> Sure.
[20:50:26] <kolie> I think the PBC or something like it is necessary to anchor the site in the real world and operations. I don't think the current situation is optimal in the slightest.
[20:50:39] <mechanicjay> ^agree
[20:51:02] <mechanicjay> gotta run, or I'd chime in more
[20:51:31] <kolie> I also believe that we can approach optimal today - and I believe I can do that with what I am doing and be being involved to steer that as a participant in the PBC.
[20:53:34] <AlwaysNever> kolie: I also think we can approach optimal, but someone has to pick a friking phone a dial a number
[20:56:40] <kolie> I talk to the full PBC once a week and NC I go back and forth with all day.
[20:57:13] <kolie> I am under the impression no one else does but all the stuff people bring up I forward to the PBC.
[20:57:44] <kolie> nc was in here the other day
[20:57:53] <kolie> he must've /part'd when we reset
[20:58:02] <chromas> He never talked though
[20:58:09] <kolie> yea he was reading.
[20:58:24] <chromas> I figured it was just his znc connection
[20:58:38] <kolie> nah he said ill join here but not the other channels.
[20:58:40] <AlwaysNever> kolie: so you talk with NC, but you don't discuss the staff's "impasse" with NC - I think that should be of most importance
[20:59:31] <kolie> Each has said they know where to be found :)
[20:59:33] <AlwaysNever> anytime I hear "PBC", I read "excuses", this is a people's problem
[21:01:15] <AlwaysNever> NC is 50% the "owner", he has written some such. Well, his duty as "owner" is to take action and make a phone call
[21:02:59] <AlwaysNever> I am of the opinion that NC lacks communications skills and has not talked properly in the proper channel with the staff of the site he 50% "owns"
[21:03:19] <kolie> There is a lot of misunderstanding on both sides as I've come to piece together.
[21:03:24] <AlwaysNever> and this talking involved picking a phone, not writing
[21:05:41] <AlwaysNever> he's the "owner", his duty in to act as such and take reponsability with the team, and for that he has to TALK to his team
[21:08:07] <AlwaysNever> the community declined because there was much noise in the comments with the example set by TMB
[21:09:01] <kolie> TMB wanted something the tools/structure wasn't ready to support.
[21:09:48] <AlwaysNever> TMB trolled the site, trolled the users, and people tired of that
[21:11:17] <AlwaysNever> the community declined because the community was mistreated
[21:12:11] <AlwaysNever> and that doesn't look like having been solved, althouth it's a new kind of mistreating the one the community is now receiving
[21:14:15] <kolie> bbiab going to go to the gun range for an hour or so.
[21:16:11] <AlwaysNever> have fun, nice liberties you have in the USA ;)
[21:16:34] <kolie> i mean i am in commiefornia so we bend over more than most.
[21:17:13] <chromas> TMB was a tiny fraction of the trolliage. Most was ari and rdt/butthurt/etcet
[21:17:36] <kolie> on my phone. why does ari have a hardon for sn
[21:17:39] <AlwaysNever> you don't know what you have until you lose it. We have two (2) communist party members as coalition gobernment ministers here, and that is saying something
[21:17:59] <AlwaysNever> California is communist like I'm the Pope of Rome
[21:18:35] <kolie> lol yea we def are not communist - just we got some fun political leanings that force the hand of a large state that doesn't agree with it and stricter than the other states.
[21:20:50] <AlwaysNever> you at leat have options. Here, home-schooling is ILLEGAL, you have to channel your kids through public schools, or they take your kids away
[21:20:57] <AlwaysNever> how about that?
[21:21:12] <kolie> Is private an option?
[21:21:41] <AlwaysNever> it is, but you need the money for it, and private heare means Opus Dei schools
[21:31:59] -!- norayr [norayr!~norayr@37.252.sq.ypj] has joined #soylent
[21:46:38] -!- lilitsyunetsi [lilitsyunetsi!~lilitsyun@37.252.sq.ypj] has parted #soylent
[21:55:21] -!- lilitsyunetsi [lilitsyunetsi!~lilitsyun@37.252.sq.ypj] has joined #soylent
[23:11:17] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent