#soylent | Logs for 2023-05-23

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[03:05:15] <poutine> I just wanted to say that I always said it wasn't going to work out
[03:16:35] <chromas> I go into nursing homes and tell all the old people they were never going to live forever
[03:22:28] <poutine> That seems exceptionally cruel considering their place in life
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[15:55:51] <Ellenor> end is nigh??
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[15:59:11] <janrinok> a new start....
[15:59:23] <janrinok> well, maybe
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[16:13:19] <progo> do I need to repent, or pay an indulgence somewhere?
[16:13:41] <progo> sorry the organization is folding :^(
[16:14:12] <janrinok> there might be a replacement - we are still looking at the options
[16:15:22] <progo> I didn't reply to the blog posts -- didn't have useful coherent thoughts to add. but I do think there's a place in the world for a news aggregator with a board of gatekeepers to keep the thread starter messages sane
[16:16:00] <progo> I have no idea how moderation can be made so it keeps most people happy :^)
[16:17:13] <janrinok> it will never make everybody happy - but if we can hit the middle of the road I think most people are content.
[16:19:21] <progo> more people will be happy if you somehow train them to be tolerant and to ignore people they don't like
[16:19:33] <progo> MSM has been training the opposite, for years
[17:46:21] -!- kolie [kolie!~kolie@2620:13c:nprx::vr] has joined #soylent
[17:50:57] <kolie> Hey guys. I read about SN. I've been in the background of SN since the days of before it didnt exist, it hadn't been even considered, and all of us where still happy on /.
[17:51:33] <kolie> I think SN is a treasure - I value it and the community greatly - and to me it is something worth keeping around.
[17:52:10] <janrinok> well, we are getting ready to move again if we can get things sorted out in the time remaining.
[17:52:47] <kolie> I think you have a path forward where you are now.
[17:53:33] <kolie> Another move is going to incur damage. Ultimately probably it can get were it needs to be again.
[17:54:15] <kolie> Theres a lot of value here and its pretty difficult to capture that again. I love SN.
[17:55:11] <kolie> I'd like to help.
[17:55:17] <janrinok> Well the domain and the PBC are not controlled by us, so some kind of change is essential. As we cannot maintain the Perl code we will have to find an alternative. I realise that the disruption and any change of name will not do us any favours but we have no other options.
[17:56:12] <janrinok> what are your skills or where do you think you would best fit in?
[17:56:58] <janrinok> send me your details via email please, and I will keep you informed : janrinok [at] soylentnews.org
[17:57:33] <kolie> I'm a software engineer. I own a hosting provider and custom software outfit. I've been through the Entrepreneurial cyrcle dozens of times. I have a corporate job doing large M&A. I've ran large community based projects before.
[17:57:42] <kolie> Your french right?
[17:57:46] <kolie> You mind a call now?
[17:58:06] <kolie> This is serious for me. Let's talk email is a little uhh passive.
[17:58:15] <kolie> I can work with ncommander too.
[17:58:23] <kolie> We've spoken prior.
[17:58:38] <janrinok> no, I am a Brit but I live in France. I'd prefer an email because I am doing other things too at the moment. NCommander does not want to be involved.
[17:58:59] <kolie> He may or may not be but I can work with him to get things where it needs to be if hes in the picture or not.
[17:59:17] <kolie> I'd appreciate your insight into the manner but let's not speak for him.
[17:59:39] <janrinok> And to be honest I don't give my phone number out in public. I'm sure that you understand.
[17:59:41] <kolie> I know hes burnt out for sure.
[17:59:48] <kolie> You can have mine. You can call me on discord.
[17:59:55] <kolie> You can call me from a burner.
[18:00:14] <janrinok> I am a bit busy at the moment. Please, just email me and I WILL make contact
[18:01:18] <kolie> Sure.
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[18:56:07] -!- mode/#soylent [+v mechanicjay] by Imogen
[19:07:32] <kolie> o7 mechanicjay
[19:55:09] <ted-ious> kolie: There are other people who might help under new management too.
[19:55:18] <ted-ious> What are you thinking?
[19:57:38] <mechanicjay> howdy
[19:57:58] <ted-ious> Hi mechanicjay.
[19:58:19] <ted-ious> Are you here to say goodbye or do you still have hopes?
[19:58:58] <mechanicjay> I'm just seeing what news is on the wind given the announcement.
[20:01:32] <ted-ious> It's probably what you'd expect.
[20:02:11] <ted-ious> Some people are sad it's ending and some people are mad and others want to save it.
[20:07:01] <ted-ious> I guess alot of the news on the wind will depend on people like you.
[20:10:07] <kolie> hey im working rn id like to cha tmore though.
[20:10:34] <kolie> I've spoken with ncommander before and now and I've got a very very positive conversation there.
[20:10:48] <ted-ious> kolie: That's good to know.
[20:11:17] <ted-ious> IRC is a very good way to chat when people are busy and popping in and out. :)
[20:11:40] <kolie> Just wanted to put it out there I cant talk rn but I'll be able to probably tommorow a lot more.
[20:11:51] <kolie> I have a court appearance in the AM so im prepping for that.
[20:11:55] <ted-ious> Great!
[20:12:09] <ted-ious> Uh oh nothing bad I hope?
[20:12:17] <kolie> Finalizing a divorce thats been three years.
[20:12:21] <kolie> Its a good thing.
[20:12:27] <ted-ious> Oh.
[20:12:37] <kolie> I was being abused and this is just knotting it.
[20:12:38] <ted-ious> Um well I guess I'm happy for you?
[20:12:40] <kolie> So good to be done.
[20:12:41] <kolie> Yea.
[20:12:43] <kolie> Super healthy move.
[20:12:56] <kolie> Not to get to personal just being transparent.
[20:13:16] <kolie> I think ncommander more than anything - wants SN to continue and be successful. I think we all want that.
[20:13:26] <kolie> He just knows it wasnt working as is and we all agree that.
[20:14:11] <kolie> So I'd like to start a dialogue on removing those problems and getting a roadmap and people together to continue the great parts of what we have here, and making sure they maintain into the future, and actually growing the community as well in a healthy natural way.
[20:14:58] <kolie> His announcement was a rugpull and a kick in the gut.
[20:15:17] <kolie> I see it as a final cry for help and saying - this is where its going to end up withotu fixing things and he just seems burnt out
[20:15:34] <kolie> So wether he continues on or not it's a small component of the big picture.
[20:15:54] <kolie> I know he wants SN to continue though his message might seem to contradict that.
[20:16:14] <ted-ious> I think I can save you a lot of time and typing by pointing out that the elephant in the room is censorship and whether or not the site will continue to be mostly apolitical.
[20:16:28] <kolie> Thats a very large component of it as well.
[20:16:37] <ted-ious> Censorship or what others like to call content moderation.
[20:17:17] <kolie> And there is no answer that satisfies everyone but there is the direction and tone an ideal sets that lets you weigh those choices.
[20:17:44] <ted-ious> So before you're going to get any more enthusiasm from people to commit to helping you're going to have to put those cards on the table.
[20:18:17] <kolie> It's not my cards.
[20:18:34] <mechanicjay> I have so many words and none of them appropriate for a public forum.
[20:18:40] <ted-ious> Aren't you volunteering to take over ownership and leadership?
[20:18:42] <kolie> We can all discuss what that is civilly and what we can agree on.
[20:19:03] <kolie> If thats whats needed, and what people want, I can adequately fill that role.
[20:19:16] <kolie> I don't know yet if thats the right move for me or for SN.
[20:19:39] <kolie> I do want to improve and keep SN going.
[20:19:56] <ted-ious> kolie: Well I think that's the only way forward that doesn't involve the website being turned into a memorial page.
[20:20:05] <kolie> Theres not many places like it and I've always known it was valuable.
[20:21:36] <ted-ious> mechanicjay: I think your words are probably some of the most important so if you can't talk about them in front of what's left of the community then it's basically all over.
[20:22:27] <kolie> I think he means he feels strongly and can't quite articulate it correctly for a public forum without inducing his feelings too much.
[20:22:38] <kolie> Doesn;t mean it can't bne said or its over thats a bit of a stretch from one to the other.
[20:22:54] <kolie> It's not so binary and we've had a lot to be emotional over with the sudden actions and rugpull.
[20:22:58] <mechanicjay> No, I'm afraid that it would just end up being nasty and airing dirty laundry.
[20:23:53] <ted-ious> mechanicjay: Well do you want to save the site or do you want it to shut down?
[20:23:57] <kolie> Whatever has been building up and leading us here was not great and a lot of people just doing th ebest they can and feeling raw.
[20:24:27] <kolie> We contributed in whatever way here I imagine for the same reason. There was good there.
[20:25:48] <kolie> I remember when a lot of us disappeared from slashdot. I loved slashdot. I feel we captured that but I remember the loss I felt there when SN cut off.
[20:26:30] <kolie> Shutting down for me - not only is there loss - it just feels like giving up. And hey maybe a lot of people here are just tired and done with it.
[20:27:40] <ted-ious> kolie: I can tell your words are heart felt and I share your feelings but there's still that elephant in the room.
[20:27:43] <kolie> Anyways I've got to work but I'd like to offer whatever I can to talk this out, get a roadmap, and as stated my goal is to keep sn together, fix things that got us here and some outstanding long term issues, and grow the community as is. its been on the decline.
[20:28:12] <kolie> The content policy there is no magic answer. I'd like to discuss it and understand the intricacies of the stronger points that matter.
[20:31:31] <ted-ious> The content moderation policy might not be a magic answer but it's also a poison pill to some of the people who would or were involved.
[20:31:39] <ted-ious> So you have to address it.
[20:33:15] <ted-ious> There are people who have contributed more than my few hundred submissions who left because of that elephant.
[20:38:04] <kolie> ted-ious if you were calling the shots - whats your take on the perfect SN content policy.
[20:38:42] <ted-ious> Are you offering to let me be in charge? :)
[20:39:19] <kolie> I'm not in charge. I'm asking you a hypothetical scenario to get your input on whats your heart on that one.
[20:39:24] <ted-ious> I don't think it's possible to have a perfect anything but I can tell you what doesn't work.
[20:39:39] <kolie> I mean theres what will be, and theres what I personally think right.
[20:40:12] <kolie> And no ones going to give the same answer but theres shades of overlap and what we can accept and agree on.
[20:40:22] <kolie> But understanding the bedrock "this is my ideal".
[20:45:55] <mechanicjay> ted-ious: I would be happy to see the site continue. Practically, the state of the backend is a disaster modulo whatever Ncommander has done the last couple months. I stepped away from things when he came back at the end of last year, so I'm not super current on how things look.
[20:47:54] <ted-ious> Then the next few questions after the elephant one would be how you want to rebuild things and if you would work with people like tmb in a different work environment.
[20:49:15] <ted-ious> I'm not volunteering for anything yet but I did pay a bit of attention to the recovery efforts and from what I saw there was a technical path forward.
[20:49:53] <mechanicjay> I would work with TMB again anytime any where, he's good people and a great colleague.
[20:49:58] <ted-ious> The replacement of the database cluster with just simple 1 node mysql is a game changer from the stability and maintenance standpoint.
[20:50:37] <ted-ious> mechanicjay: Well maybe you should drop him a line and remind him of that. :)
[20:51:31] <ted-ious> I'd bet you a commitment of a few hours a week for 5 years that he'd appreciate hearing from you. ;)
[20:54:43] <mechanicjay> He dropped into the comments of janrinok's Meta story -- I've been in touch with him a couple times since his departure.
[20:55:01] <ted-ious> Oh I must have missed that.
[20:56:10] <ted-ious> The best feature that scoop had was giving you a little icon next to each new comment since the last time you loaded the page.
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[21:03:42] <progo> "best feature that ___ had…" -- random stupid idea: I wish we could get everyone to use NNTP again. let them run all of the presentation, layout, navigation, etc. locally in their personal server or personal computer :^)
[21:03:44] <progo> *sigh
[21:03:54] <progo> those days are gone, except for some Steve Gibson fans
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[21:04:57] <progo> Thunderbird still works. unfortunately it can't sync its personal local state with itself on your other computer
[21:20:00] <Bytram> mechanicjay: I concur about TMB... His adhd (?) made it challenging to follow along with this thinking at times, but I'm sure I am not without quirks and issues, too!
[21:33:32] <chromas> progo: no firefox sync integration?
[21:38:43] <progo> I think not, last time I checked
[21:38:51] <progo> would be great if it did do that
[21:38:59] <progo> pretty sure firefox sync server is FOSS you can own yourself
[21:39:27] <progo> ( @chromas )
[21:40:05] <chromas> it is, but when I tried it it was a lot of work because you needed like three different servers to get it going
[21:40:32] <progo> oof
[21:40:33] <chromas> there's the sync server itself, plus an oauth server, and I don't remember what the other was for
[21:40:34] <progo> enterprise
[21:40:56] <chromas> It makes sense to break it into multiple servers I guess, if you're hosting millions of users
[21:40:58] <progo> sounds like a small version of what happened with Google Wave: big giant mess supported by brute force. project cancelled. "y'all FOSS people want this? have fun."
[21:41:23] <chromas> I'm not sure if Firefox itself even has millions of users though
[21:41:55] <progo> probably had tens of millions of Sync users when Firefox Sync Server was written
[21:42:09] <ted-ious> They never should have taken google's money in exchange for promoting chrome.
[21:42:43] <ted-ious> That's like letting the world's biggest bank robber buy safe deposit boxes in your vault.
[21:42:49] <progo> I keep reminding people that Firefox and Chromium are both beholden to Google money and do what Google wishes
[21:42:52] <progo> no one cares most of the time
[21:43:13] <progo> and YouTube very deliberately caused the death of the non-chromium MS Edge
[21:43:32] <progo> MS couldn't complain because they'd done the same thing to dozens of companies
[21:44:26] <progo> (the attack: Youtube shipped bad client-side code, only to MS Edge [pre-chromium]. people thought Edge sucked. it didn't)
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[21:45:25] <chromas> MS should've used Firefox for Edge. I recall reading that it's s shitshow under the hood, so it's just perfect for a Microsoft project
[21:45:40] <progo> lol
[21:45:53] <progo> Office 365 and Firefox Edge edition would be great together
[21:46:17] <progo> XML and XML, lovingly embraced
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[21:56:33] <kolie> bluescreen.
[21:56:37] <kolie> :)
[21:57:42] <chromas> Like a crash? Or is it the newer one where windows tells you "DON'T WORRY YOUR FILES ARE RIGHT WHERE YOU LEFT THEM"?
[21:57:49] <kolie> WDF_VIOATION
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[22:39:22] <ted-ious> mechanicjay: Would you say that the big part of the database for articles could be replaced with a key value store?
[22:40:37] <ted-ious> Hmm I didn't type that very well I should have been explicit about it being the comments.
[22:40:38] <kolie> Theres a lot of tech decisions that are suboptimal due to the old architecture. Retrieving articles and pages and caching decisions are a plenty.
[22:41:31] <ted-ious> Post id and post text might not be enough for what it takes to generate a page.
[22:42:14] <ted-ious> kolie: I think some of those decisions were premature optimization like making the database a zero downtime cluster.
[22:42:31] <kolie> I wouldn't change anything beyond fetch and build page until it slows down or theres reason to.
[22:43:34] <kolie> So I see a few areas. Theres the dev ops, theres the tech stack, and theres the governance/direction/policies.
[22:44:16] <mechanicjay> exactly -- The issue isn't really the structure of the database -- it's the cluster configuration which was ill conceived and poorly understood from the get go.
[22:44:36] <kolie> yea the db schema from what ive seen seemed atleast saneish
[22:44:59] <kolie> not properly operating mysql gets you corruption doesnt mattrer what you put on top of it.
[22:44:59] <mechanicjay> Yeah, I work with far worse on a daily basis in $dayjob
[22:46:14] -!- bryan [bryan!~bryan@136.50.qxv.zr] has joined #soylent
[22:47:00] <Deucalion> Hi bryan o/ was just typing a reply to your mail!
[22:47:09] * Deucalion aka juggs]
[22:47:13] <mechanicjay> Yep, there were some plans to roll back to single mysql, I don't know if that ever got executed on -- due to the old school nature of the software, the database driver and connection strings get COMPILED into mod_slash -- which just adds another layer of complexity.
[22:47:22] <kolie> Its on single mysql right now is my understanding.
[22:47:28] <kolie> And it works well and was an upgrade in doing so.
[22:47:29] <bryan> konbanwa :)
[22:48:59] <mechanicjay> well, that's good news at least
[22:49:33] <Deucalion> bryan, Weridly I'm just in the throes of trying to get pipecode up and running on a vanilla server ::D :D
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[22:50:12] <bryan> make sure it's the github version and not the tarball from wayback when
[22:50:14] <ted-ious> Does pipecode use the same database schema?
[22:50:18] <bryan> i never really updated those
[22:51:05] <bryan> ted-ious: as slashcode? not even close
[22:51:21] <ted-ious> So much for an easy import. :)
[22:51:24] <Deucalion> Ahhh.... I just grabbed the tarball from pipecode.org. No matter, I only just unpacked it.
[22:51:46] <Deucalion> Good timing :)
[22:51:47] <chromas> I also set up a copy but just got a file not found on the server
[22:52:52] <kolie> So im talking with ncommander and I wouldn't mind taking over from his side of operations and doing this different and right.
[22:53:19] <Deucalion> Then you need to talk with him and Matt Angel about the PBC
[22:53:25] <kolie> i have.
[22:53:27] <chromas> Can you hack on the perl code?
[22:53:33] <kolie> I can rewrite it.
[22:53:40] <kolie> And not break it in the meantime.
[22:53:56] * Deucalion knows kung-fu
[22:54:21] <kolie> if I'm calling the shots - and the tech was up to me - the perl has to go.
[22:54:34] <chromas> May as well move over to pipecode then
[22:55:11] <chromas> it's already a slashdot-alike but more modernerer under the hood and in a language people still know how to use
[22:55:20] <kolie> php the most hated to work on language.
[22:55:28] <chromas> If you forget perl
[22:55:37] <kolie> no one actually works on perl :)
[22:55:45] <kolie> you have to smell like grandpa.
[22:55:46] <bryan> and people know who to blame when it blows up
[22:55:49] <chromas> That's 'cause everyone hates it :D
[22:55:59] <kolie> lol
[22:56:03] <mechanicjay> Actually, I'm a staunch PHP defender.
[22:56:14] <mechanicjay> I ENJOY writing in PHP
[22:56:19] <kolie> Yea I've been working with PHP for decades.
[22:56:25] <kolie> decade +
[22:56:48] <kolie> Who ever is going to commit to the project on a long term basis
[22:57:27] <kolie> Its going to be imporant in the long run that the tech is appropriate, they are versed in it, and there is an ecosystem out there for opportunities to others to jump on.
[22:57:33] <chromas> Working on rehash requires a beard as well as a large intake of caffeine and nicotine
[22:57:45] <kolie> Drop acid it makes rehash easier.
[22:58:04] * chromas checks out slashdot to see if there's a story about SN
[22:58:11] <chromas> it's not even loading
[22:58:30] <chromas> there we go. took over 30 secs
[22:58:41] <mechanicjay> https://news.slashdot.org
[22:58:42] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews To Shut Down On June 30th - Slashdot
[22:58:46] <kolie> NCommanders main concern is - who is willing to actually step up and do the hard stuff long term and not just backseet drive.
[22:58:59] <kolie> He doesn't see it, thus the shutdown albatross.
[22:59:04] <chromas> oh I see. My internet burped, so now that it's back all these messages just appeared in IRC
[22:59:08] <kolie> He's pretty much done.
[22:59:28] <Deucalion> Yes, we know
[22:59:38] <kolie> I'm willing to take that on short term, and cut up the long term responsibilities and delegate them.
[22:59:49] <kolie> And maintain the structure of what was started.
[22:59:57] <Deucalion> Delegate them to who?
[23:00:00] <kolie> The idea is to go 501 nfp
[23:00:00] <mechanicjay> ^^
[23:00:05] <chromas> We've had quite a few people who wanted to work on rehash but they all disappeared shortly after looking at it
[23:00:20] <kolie> Well Im here right now I guess there still time for me to disappear.
[23:00:27] <ted-ious> chromas: Scary code dragons. :)
[23:00:37] <chromas> How long is your beard?
[23:00:41] <bryan> to me, perl code looks the same both before and after being encoded in base64
[23:00:52] <kolie> NCommander said no ones willing to step up. I am. I believe in the project here. My beard is strong.
[23:01:05] <mechanicjay> IIRC there were many reasons for going with with a PBC rather than a NFP
[23:01:12] <chromas> It needs to be at least six inches to go on this ride
[23:01:14] <kolie> I'm not here for the easy shit either.
[23:01:30] <kolie> mechanicjay: no one had the stamina to bring it to the finish line
[23:01:39] <kolie> it was a stop gap to the final goal.
[23:01:46] <Deucalion> You say you are willing in the short term. That's not terribly useful. We're coming on 10 years of existing.
[23:01:50] <mechanicjay> That sounds like revisionist history to me
[23:02:02] <kolie> In the short term to take on everything and not quit.
[23:02:09] <kolie> Not that I am leaving after that.
[23:02:18] <kolie> I can commit to not burning out to stabalize and step in and right this.
[23:02:39] <Deucalion> kolie, it you want to take on control of SN you need to thrash that out with NCommander. He's the one terminating it.
[23:02:40] <chromas> Seems legit
[23:02:49] <kolie> I'm working with him.
[23:03:05] <kolie> It's premature to say I have his blessing but basically I think its there if I want it.
[23:03:11] <ted-ious> bryan: I know you are joking but do you really think that the slash code looks like base64?
[23:03:13] <Deucalion> Good, then I am sure we'll hear about the agreement the two of you come to in due course.
[23:03:29] <kolie> But I know that SN is more than him.
[23:03:52] <kolie> It's me, its the people in this channel.
[23:03:52] <bryan> no, it's just a joke :P
[23:04:00] <chromas> bryan: also you mentioned never updating them. do you mean the sourceball on the site? is it older than what's running the site right now?
[23:04:06] <bryan> base64 is far cleaner looking
[23:04:11] <chromas> :D
[23:04:47] <ted-ious> Because I'm looking at slash.pm and it looks very clean and professional to me.
[23:04:59] <bryan> the source on github right now is pretty much exactly what is running on the live site
[23:05:04] <mechanicjay> kolie: please define "take on everything"
[23:05:26] <ted-ious> None of the perl golf impossible to read code that people usually joke about.
[23:05:34] <ted-ious> !@#$%^&*()
[23:05:44] <kolie> Operations, the role in PBC, tech debt, leadership, the daily work to keep the project going.
[23:06:29] <kolie> I don't know whos willing to do something about the state of the community and project.
[23:06:41] <kolie> Theres opinions theres bad blood.
[23:06:54] <ted-ious> kolie: Who is willing to do those things depends on the direction of new leadership.
[23:06:56] <kolie> I'm willing to actively make this happen and push and work on it.
[23:07:05] <mechanicjay> The state of the community is the primary thing that needs to be worked on. The technical state of the project, is seperate issue.
[23:07:10] <kolie> It is.ool
[23:07:31] <Deucalion> kolie, no offense intended, but you sound like you are just making shit up. The staffers here are feeling somewhat burned by NC's recent actions and short notice of end of times. I'd suggest you need to get back on to NC and square things away as to the future then some and tell us about it.
[23:07:51] <kolie> I am working with him. If the ship has sailed here it wasn't worth it.
[23:07:58] <kolie> I take it from your input, and your last comment, that it hasnt.
[23:08:01] <mechanicjay> The technical state of the project is in the state it's in because the volunteer base has attritioned harder than the community base.
[23:08:22] <ted-ious> mechanicjay++
[23:08:29] <kolie> Yea I gathered as much.
[23:08:43] <ted-ious> And the reasons for that are mostly political.
[23:08:56] <ted-ious> Hence the elephant in the room.
[23:09:03] <bryan> i guess the one thing that isn't committed yet to git is the thumbnail tweaks - each time an article is made that has an image associated with it, a thumbnail was save and it got kinda large
[23:09:26] <mechanicjay> ted-ious: I disagree
[23:09:33] <bryan> https://pipedot.org 1,394,795 thumbnails and counting!
[23:09:33] <systemd> ^ 03Thumbnails - Pipedot
[23:09:55] <chromas> https://pipedot.org
[23:09:56] <systemd> ^ 03Thumbnail - Pipedot
[23:09:59] <kolie> Deucalion. Making up what exactly just so I understand your comment?
[23:10:09] <chromas> I got a couple of those just recently
[23:10:15] <ted-ious> mechanicjay: Your enthusiasm to volunteer dropped because of purely technical reasons?
[23:10:23] <kolie> No not technical at all.
[23:10:37] <mechanicjay> It was a disagreement on how to build community and moderate the discussion
[23:10:45] <mechanicjay> and that has nothing to do with why I stepped away.
[23:10:57] <ted-ious> mechanicjay: Isn't that a political question?
[23:11:06] <kolie> doesn't have to be.
[23:11:15] <Deucalion> kolie, the whole being in discussions with NC stuff and the ability to rewrite the whole of rehash without breaking anything along the way...
[23:11:33] <kolie> Ok well want to screen share me?
[23:11:40] <kolie> I can scroll our conversation.
[23:11:52] <kolie> You don't know my tech background thats fine./
[23:12:15] <ted-ious> kolie: Maybe you can save some time and skepticism by sharing that now.
[23:12:49] <kolie> Been working in software for 25 years. I worked at curse.com a top 100 website and designed their entire web stack and implemented it. I wrote v1-v4 of the curse client.
[23:13:01] <Deucalion> No kolie, I do not wish to screen share you or anyone
[23:13:12] <mechanicjay> be back, work meeting.
[23:13:30] <kolie> As far as operations I run a web hosting and custom software firm.
[23:13:34] <chromas> curse.com redirects to fandom.com
[23:13:37] <kolie> We specialize in strangling the monolith.
[23:13:44] <chromas> I eas expecting like an Alexa-type thing
[23:13:58] <kolie> Taking old systems, doing reverse engineering and the like, and creating services from them
[23:14:04] <kolie> and eventually end of lifing old equipment.
[23:14:15] <kolie> My day job I do M&A's in a vCIO/CTO role.
[23:14:52] <kolie> I've ran a gaming community for about 7 years in the past.
[23:14:59] <chromas> https://github.com
[23:15:00] <systemd> ^ 03GitHub - SoylentNews/rehash: Forked from Slashcode, rehash is the codebase that powers SoylentNews.org, powered by mod_perl 2
[23:15:12] <kolie> Went from playing games with friends to developing multiple online titles and running the operations and community arround it.
[23:16:03] <kolie> As far as the reversing goes thats actually why curse.com hired me originally.
[23:16:16] <kolie> I reverse engineer the protocol for a few mmos, and wrote emulators for them.
[23:16:22] <kolie> They found out about my work on WoW
[23:16:26] <kolie> Wanted to hire me.
[23:16:33] <kolie> Went from doing the protocol to the game memory.
[23:17:03] <kolie> They wanted to do facebook for game characters. No ones going to update that stuff manually, the idea was watch via memory whats happening in the game and auto tweet/update it.
[23:17:41] <kolie> I am a private pilot. I fly drones as well. I do a bit of EE stuff now, I hold an amateur radio extra license ai6ci
[23:17:52] <kolie> Thats me in 120 seconds.
[23:18:36] <kolie> Right now doing a sales force integration with an old access/mssql application for a 3B revenue company.
[23:19:19] <kolie> involves writing numerous containerized services from scratch, CI/CD pipeline, dev/prod environments, customer requirements.
[23:19:35] <kolie> They aren't techy so it has to be polished and self sufficient for the most part.
[23:20:25] <kolie> @chromas curse was bought by twitch
[23:20:34] <kolie> they alienated their user base
[23:20:44] <kolie> and the community split. their leader reunited them and joined fandom
[23:21:01] <kolie> and the curse client afaik is more community driven run now then it was before.
[23:21:36] <kolie> When I was involved it was in C++, initial release was 60,000 lines I wrote over 3 months. After I left it went over to C# and then twitch bought them and ate whatever was there.
[23:22:37] <kolie> curse.com started as a guild, hubert thieblot was the GM, he told his people they needed to use thes addons, he hosted wow info on his site
[23:22:52] <kolie> it grew from there into a gaming information portal and best place to finds mods, top 100 in terms of traffic.
[23:23:01] <kolie> I was hired after the guild and initial round of funding.
[23:23:06] <Deucalion> kolie, pls stop
[23:23:23] <kolie> Cool.
[23:23:44] <bryan> i remember using the curse client for voice chat during online games, until amazon and twitch shut it all down - now everything is discord these days
[23:24:04] <kolie> yea i was out before the voice convert. they didnt want that functionality when I was there.
[23:24:54] <Deucalion> kolie, as it stands right now SN will not exist come 30th June. There will be nothing to carry forward. If there is some deal being struck between yourself and NC then I suggest your time would be better spent finalising that than in here on some hearts and minds campaign or whatever this is.
[23:25:32] <kolie> I'm doing something about that and you've only been going off of what someone, who doesn't in his heart even want that action, has said in frustration.
[23:26:12] <kolie> He's let me know what I need to do for him to make him not come to that conclusion.
[23:27:28] <kolie> I don't know what you are doing, what your intent, or your commitment is Deucalion.
[23:27:33] <ted-ious> I think the history of that project is fascinating and I'm sorry that amazon are it.
[23:27:58] <kolie> I've publically stated mine.
[23:29:12] <Deucalion> kolie, right now I am the de facto CEO of SN. Along with the IRC wrangler. I am keen for the community to continue.
[23:29:58] <kolie> wonderful, whats the IRCd? I used to commit heavily to inspircd.
[23:34:54] <bryan> https://pipedot.org
[23:34:55] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews Shutdown - Pipedot
[23:35:56] <chromas> Sweet, my login still works
[23:36:25] <Deucalion> What does it matter what the ircd is kolie? It won't exist in a few weeks. Besides, you can easily find what it is by yourself without special skills.... it tells you when you connect fffs
[23:36:33] <bryan> do tell me if you see any bugs, it's been relatively unused for a good long while
[23:37:03] <kolie> I read the MOTD I didn't quite see it or care enough.
[23:37:28] <kolie> I saw solanum not familiar with it or if thats a version of a specific ircd.
[23:38:02] <kolie> yea looks like an ircd. not familiar with it at all.
[23:38:12] <kolie> I ran unreal back in the day, used to run a few links to dalnet.
[23:38:18] <kolie> decades ago nothing relevant.
[23:39:20] <chromas> bryan: looks like clicking the Feed button gives a mostly empty page for me. I haven't set up a feed, but the sidebars and stuff are all missing
[23:39:31] <kolie> I'm off for the night. Eager to chat soon.
[23:39:55] <kolie> I don't have special skills btw - your being a bit rude and I don't think I've warranted it.
[23:39:57] <bryan> mmmm, do you see an "edit" button at the top? you have to add rss feeds for there to be anything
[23:40:07] <kolie> I have the skills I've learned in my life.
[23:40:11] <kolie> A lot of them from places like SN
[23:40:18] <kolie> They are useful here.
[23:40:26] <kolie> They are applicable. Thats why I am here.
[23:40:52] <chromas> Sí. So it's just a lack of feeds plus Dark Reader borking the "Feed" title top left that makes it look weird
[23:41:02] <kolie> I don't need to convince anyone and I'm not trying to sell myself here. I wont accept a future were SN is offline. Thats why I went to NC
[23:41:07] <kolie> you've seemed to accept that as a fact.
[23:41:12] <kolie> he's said it.
[23:41:28] <kolie> It could happen. Do you want that to Deucalion? Is that the optimal for you?
[23:42:48] <bryan> ya, i've added a few to my feed page here: https://bryan.pipedot.org - but sometimes the parser cant read some stories sometimes so they get stuck
[23:42:49] <systemd> ^ 03bryan.pipedot.org
[23:43:07] <kolie> Anyways O
[23:43:15] <kolie> I'll scroll later. I've got family to attend to.
[23:43:37] <mechanicjay> kolie: Sorry if existing staff are a little salty. You're presenting yourself as kind of a savior -- which is an attitude I think we've all had more than enough of over the last 9 years.
[23:43:42] <bryan> like https://pipedot.org is working now, but it was doing something weird a few days ago
[23:43:43] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews - Pipedot
[23:44:22] <chromas> What would be cool is a way to cluster the feeds by story
[23:44:55] <chromas> So you get "AMD Launches Zen 2-based" from all the sources as one item that you can attach comments to. Not very easy to get it to be accurate though
[23:46:50] <ted-ious> If story nodes can be edited they could just be added onto whenever an editor finds something that belongs.
[23:49:34] <bryan> i tried that with the "Similar" feature, so for example: https://pipedot.org has a button called "Similar" in the story box that looks through all the other articles and finds articles from hackernews, etc, that where not linked in the main text
[23:49:35] <systemd> ^ 03June Will Be 1 Second Longer
[23:50:32] <ted-ious> Does it use fancy ai to fill that box? :)
[23:51:09] <bryan> it's just a simple text based check, so irrelevant things like "Watch MIT's robo-cheetah leap walls" gets linked because of the word "leap"
[23:51:19] <bryan> instead of "leap second"
[23:51:21] <ted-ious> I can imagine a future where every web server will need 5000 watts of gpu so that chatgpt can ask itself what links should go at the bottom of each page.
[23:53:06] -!- kolie_ [kolie_!uid603051@mx-936839.hampstead.irccloud.com] has joined #soylent
[23:58:37] <Deucalion> bryan, did the whole server syndication / federation thing get done in pipecode? There's parts that I read that suggest if I stand up an instance of pipecode I get all the stories and comments from every other instance