#soylent | Logs for 2023-05-23

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[23:58:37] <Deucalion> bryan, did the whole server syndication / federation thing get done in pipecode? There's parts that I read that suggest if I stand up an instance of pipecode I get all the stories and comments from every other instance
[23:53:06] -!- kolie_ [kolie_!uid603051@mx-936839.hampstead.irccloud.com] has joined #soylent
[23:51:21] <ted-ious> I can imagine a future where every web server will need 5000 watts of gpu so that chatgpt can ask itself what links should go at the bottom of each page.
[23:51:19] <bryan> instead of "leap second"
[23:51:09] <bryan> it's just a simple text based check, so irrelevant things like "Watch MIT's robo-cheetah leap walls" gets linked because of the word "leap"
[23:50:32] <ted-ious> Does it use fancy ai to fill that box? :)
[23:49:35] <systemd> ^ 03June Will Be 1 Second Longer
[23:49:34] <bryan> i tried that with the "Similar" feature, so for example: https://pipedot.org has a button called "Similar" in the story box that looks through all the other articles and finds articles from hackernews, etc, that where not linked in the main text
[23:46:50] <ted-ious> If story nodes can be edited they could just be added onto whenever an editor finds something that belongs.
[23:44:55] <chromas> So you get "AMD Launches Zen 2-based" from all the sources as one item that you can attach comments to. Not very easy to get it to be accurate though
[23:44:22] <chromas> What would be cool is a way to cluster the feeds by story
[23:43:43] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews - Pipedot
[23:43:42] <bryan> like https://pipedot.org is working now, but it was doing something weird a few days ago
[23:43:37] <mechanicjay> kolie: Sorry if existing staff are a little salty. You're presenting yourself as kind of a savior -- which is an attitude I think we've all had more than enough of over the last 9 years.
[23:43:15] <kolie> I'll scroll later. I've got family to attend to.
[23:43:07] <kolie> Anyways O
[23:42:49] <systemd> ^ 03bryan.pipedot.org
[23:42:48] <bryan> ya, i've added a few to my feed page here: https://bryan.pipedot.org - but sometimes the parser cant read some stories sometimes so they get stuck
[23:41:28] <kolie> It could happen. Do you want that to Deucalion? Is that the optimal for you?
[23:41:12] <kolie> he's said it.
[23:41:07] <kolie> you've seemed to accept that as a fact.
[23:41:02] <kolie> I don't need to convince anyone and I'm not trying to sell myself here. I wont accept a future were SN is offline. Thats why I went to NC
[23:40:52] <chromas> Sí. So it's just a lack of feeds plus Dark Reader borking the "Feed" title top left that makes it look weird
[23:40:26] <kolie> They are applicable. Thats why I am here.
[23:40:18] <kolie> They are useful here.
[23:40:11] <kolie> A lot of them from places like SN
[23:40:07] <kolie> I have the skills I've learned in my life.
[23:39:57] <bryan> mmmm, do you see an "edit" button at the top? you have to add rss feeds for there to be anything
[23:39:55] <kolie> I don't have special skills btw - your being a bit rude and I don't think I've warranted it.
[23:39:31] <kolie> I'm off for the night. Eager to chat soon.
[23:39:20] <chromas> bryan: looks like clicking the Feed button gives a mostly empty page for me. I haven't set up a feed, but the sidebars and stuff are all missing
[23:38:18] <kolie> decades ago nothing relevant.
[23:38:12] <kolie> I ran unreal back in the day, used to run a few links to dalnet.
[23:38:02] <kolie> yea looks like an ircd. not familiar with it at all.
[23:37:28] <kolie> I saw solanum not familiar with it or if thats a version of a specific ircd.
[23:37:03] <kolie> I read the MOTD I didn't quite see it or care enough.
[23:36:33] <bryan> do tell me if you see any bugs, it's been relatively unused for a good long while
[23:36:25] <Deucalion> What does it matter what the ircd is kolie? It won't exist in a few weeks. Besides, you can easily find what it is by yourself without special skills.... it tells you when you connect fffs
[23:35:56] <chromas> Sweet, my login still works
[23:34:55] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews Shutdown - Pipedot
[23:34:54] <bryan> https://pipedot.org
[23:29:58] <kolie> wonderful, whats the IRCd? I used to commit heavily to inspircd.
[23:29:12] <Deucalion> kolie, right now I am the de facto CEO of SN. Along with the IRC wrangler. I am keen for the community to continue.
[23:27:58] <kolie> I've publically stated mine.
[23:27:33] <ted-ious> I think the history of that project is fascinating and I'm sorry that amazon are it.
[23:27:28] <kolie> I don't know what you are doing, what your intent, or your commitment is Deucalion.
[23:26:12] <kolie> He's let me know what I need to do for him to make him not come to that conclusion.
[23:25:32] <kolie> I'm doing something about that and you've only been going off of what someone, who doesn't in his heart even want that action, has said in frustration.
[23:24:54] <Deucalion> kolie, as it stands right now SN will not exist come 30th June. There will be nothing to carry forward. If there is some deal being struck between yourself and NC then I suggest your time would be better spent finalising that than in here on some hearts and minds campaign or whatever this is.
[23:24:04] <kolie> yea i was out before the voice convert. they didnt want that functionality when I was there.
[23:23:44] <bryan> i remember using the curse client for voice chat during online games, until amazon and twitch shut it all down - now everything is discord these days
[23:23:23] <kolie> Cool.
[23:23:06] <Deucalion> kolie, pls stop
[23:23:01] <kolie> I was hired after the guild and initial round of funding.
[23:22:52] <kolie> it grew from there into a gaming information portal and best place to finds mods, top 100 in terms of traffic.
[23:22:37] <kolie> curse.com started as a guild, hubert thieblot was the GM, he told his people they needed to use thes addons, he hosted wow info on his site
[23:21:36] <kolie> When I was involved it was in C++, initial release was 60,000 lines I wrote over 3 months. After I left it went over to C# and then twitch bought them and ate whatever was there.
[23:21:01] <kolie> and the curse client afaik is more community driven run now then it was before.
[23:20:44] <kolie> and the community split. their leader reunited them and joined fandom
[23:20:34] <kolie> they alienated their user base
[23:20:25] <kolie> @chromas curse was bought by twitch
[23:19:35] <kolie> They aren't techy so it has to be polished and self sufficient for the most part.
[23:19:19] <kolie> involves writing numerous containerized services from scratch, CI/CD pipeline, dev/prod environments, customer requirements.
[23:18:36] <kolie> Right now doing a sales force integration with an old access/mssql application for a 3B revenue company.
[23:17:52] <kolie> Thats me in 120 seconds.
[23:17:41] <kolie> I am a private pilot. I fly drones as well. I do a bit of EE stuff now, I hold an amateur radio extra license ai6ci
[23:17:03] <kolie> They wanted to do facebook for game characters. No ones going to update that stuff manually, the idea was watch via memory whats happening in the game and auto tweet/update it.
[23:16:33] <kolie> Went from doing the protocol to the game memory.
[23:16:26] <kolie> Wanted to hire me.
[23:16:22] <kolie> They found out about my work on WoW
[23:16:16] <kolie> I reverse engineer the protocol for a few mmos, and wrote emulators for them.
[23:16:03] <kolie> As far as the reversing goes thats actually why curse.com hired me originally.
[23:15:12] <kolie> Went from playing games with friends to developing multiple online titles and running the operations and community arround it.
[23:15:00] <systemd> ^ 03GitHub - SoylentNews/rehash: Forked from Slashcode, rehash is the codebase that powers SoylentNews.org, powered by mod_perl 2
[23:14:59] <chromas> https://github.com
[23:14:52] <kolie> I've ran a gaming community for about 7 years in the past.
[23:14:15] <kolie> My day job I do M&A's in a vCIO/CTO role.
[23:14:04] <kolie> and eventually end of lifing old equipment.
[23:13:58] <kolie> Taking old systems, doing reverse engineering and the like, and creating services from them
[23:13:44] <chromas> I eas expecting like an Alexa-type thing
[23:13:37] <kolie> We specialize in strangling the monolith.
[23:13:34] <chromas> curse.com redirects to fandom.com
[23:13:30] <kolie> As far as operations I run a web hosting and custom software firm.
[23:13:12] <mechanicjay> be back, work meeting.
[23:13:01] <Deucalion> No kolie, I do not wish to screen share you or anyone
[23:12:49] <kolie> Been working in software for 25 years. I worked at curse.com a top 100 website and designed their entire web stack and implemented it. I wrote v1-v4 of the curse client.
[23:12:15] <ted-ious> kolie: Maybe you can save some time and skepticism by sharing that now.
[23:11:52] <kolie> You don't know my tech background thats fine./
[23:11:40] <kolie> I can scroll our conversation.
[23:11:33] <kolie> Ok well want to screen share me?
[23:11:15] <Deucalion> kolie, the whole being in discussions with NC stuff and the ability to rewrite the whole of rehash without breaking anything along the way...
[23:11:06] <kolie> doesn't have to be.
[23:10:57] <ted-ious> mechanicjay: Isn't that a political question?
[23:10:45] <mechanicjay> and that has nothing to do with why I stepped away.
[23:10:37] <mechanicjay> It was a disagreement on how to build community and moderate the discussion
[23:10:23] <kolie> No not technical at all.
[23:10:15] <ted-ious> mechanicjay: Your enthusiasm to volunteer dropped because of purely technical reasons?
[23:10:09] <chromas> I got a couple of those just recently
[23:09:59] <kolie> Deucalion. Making up what exactly just so I understand your comment?
[23:09:56] <systemd> ^ 03Thumbnail - Pipedot
[23:09:55] <chromas> https://pipedot.org
[23:09:33] <systemd> ^ 03Thumbnails - Pipedot
[23:09:33] <bryan> https://pipedot.org 1,394,795 thumbnails and counting!
[23:09:26] <mechanicjay> ted-ious: I disagree
[23:09:03] <bryan> i guess the one thing that isn't committed yet to git is the thumbnail tweaks - each time an article is made that has an image associated with it, a thumbnail was save and it got kinda large
[23:08:56] <ted-ious> Hence the elephant in the room.
[23:08:43] <ted-ious> And the reasons for that are mostly political.
[23:08:29] <kolie> Yea I gathered as much.
[23:08:22] <ted-ious> mechanicjay++
[23:08:01] <mechanicjay> The technical state of the project is in the state it's in because the volunteer base has attritioned harder than the community base.
[23:07:58] <kolie> I take it from your input, and your last comment, that it hasnt.
[23:07:51] <kolie> I am working with him. If the ship has sailed here it wasn't worth it.
[23:07:31] <Deucalion> kolie, no offense intended, but you sound like you are just making shit up. The staffers here are feeling somewhat burned by NC's recent actions and short notice of end of times. I'd suggest you need to get back on to NC and square things away as to the future then some and tell us about it.
[23:07:10] <kolie> It is.ool
[23:07:05] <mechanicjay> The state of the community is the primary thing that needs to be worked on. The technical state of the project, is seperate issue.
[23:06:56] <kolie> I'm willing to actively make this happen and push and work on it.
[23:06:54] <ted-ious> kolie: Who is willing to do those things depends on the direction of new leadership.
[23:06:41] <kolie> Theres opinions theres bad blood.
[23:06:29] <kolie> I don't know whos willing to do something about the state of the community and project.
[23:05:44] <kolie> Operations, the role in PBC, tech debt, leadership, the daily work to keep the project going.
[23:05:34] <ted-ious> !@#$%^&*()
[23:05:26] <ted-ious> None of the perl golf impossible to read code that people usually joke about.
[23:05:04] <mechanicjay> kolie: please define "take on everything"
[23:04:59] <bryan> the source on github right now is pretty much exactly what is running on the live site
[23:04:47] <ted-ious> Because I'm looking at slash.pm and it looks very clean and professional to me.
[23:04:11] <chromas> :D
[23:04:06] <bryan> base64 is far cleaner looking
[23:04:00] <chromas> bryan: also you mentioned never updating them. do you mean the sourceball on the site? is it older than what's running the site right now?
[23:03:52] <bryan> no, it's just a joke :P
[23:03:52] <kolie> It's me, its the people in this channel.
[23:03:29] <kolie> But I know that SN is more than him.
[23:03:13] <Deucalion> Good, then I am sure we'll hear about the agreement the two of you come to in due course.
[23:03:11] <ted-ious> bryan: I know you are joking but do you really think that the slash code looks like base64?
[23:03:05] <kolie> It's premature to say I have his blessing but basically I think its there if I want it.
[23:02:49] <kolie> I'm working with him.
[23:02:40] <chromas> Seems legit
[23:02:39] <Deucalion> kolie, it you want to take on control of SN you need to thrash that out with NCommander. He's the one terminating it.
[23:02:18] <kolie> I can commit to not burning out to stabalize and step in and right this.
[23:02:09] <kolie> Not that I am leaving after that.
[23:02:02] <kolie> In the short term to take on everything and not quit.
[23:01:50] <mechanicjay> That sounds like revisionist history to me
[23:01:46] <Deucalion> You say you are willing in the short term. That's not terribly useful. We're coming on 10 years of existing.
[23:01:39] <kolie> it was a stop gap to the final goal.
[23:01:30] <kolie> mechanicjay: no one had the stamina to bring it to the finish line
[23:01:14] <kolie> I'm not here for the easy shit either.
[23:01:12] <chromas> It needs to be at least six inches to go on this ride
[23:01:05] <mechanicjay> IIRC there were many reasons for going with with a PBC rather than a NFP
[23:00:52] <kolie> NCommander said no ones willing to step up. I am. I believe in the project here. My beard is strong.
[23:00:41] <bryan> to me, perl code looks the same both before and after being encoded in base64
[23:00:37] <chromas> How long is your beard?
[23:00:27] <ted-ious> chromas: Scary code dragons. :)
[23:00:20] <kolie> Well Im here right now I guess there still time for me to disappear.
[23:00:05] <chromas> We've had quite a few people who wanted to work on rehash but they all disappeared shortly after looking at it
[23:00:00] <mechanicjay> ^^
[23:00:00] <kolie> The idea is to go 501 nfp
[22:59:57] <Deucalion> Delegate them to who?
[22:59:49] <kolie> And maintain the structure of what was started.
[22:59:38] <kolie> I'm willing to take that on short term, and cut up the long term responsibilities and delegate them.
[22:59:28] <Deucalion> Yes, we know
[22:59:08] <kolie> He's pretty much done.
[22:59:04] <chromas> oh I see. My internet burped, so now that it's back all these messages just appeared in IRC
[22:58:59] <kolie> He doesn't see it, thus the shutdown albatross.
[22:58:46] <kolie> NCommanders main concern is - who is willing to actually step up and do the hard stuff long term and not just backseet drive.
[22:58:42] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews To Shut Down On June 30th - Slashdot
[22:58:41] <mechanicjay> https://news.slashdot.org
[22:58:30] <chromas> there we go. took over 30 secs
[22:58:11] <chromas> it's not even loading
[22:58:04] * chromas checks out slashdot to see if there's a story about SN
[22:57:45] <kolie> Drop acid it makes rehash easier.
[22:57:33] <chromas> Working on rehash requires a beard as well as a large intake of caffeine and nicotine
[22:57:27] <kolie> Its going to be imporant in the long run that the tech is appropriate, they are versed in it, and there is an ecosystem out there for opportunities to others to jump on.
[22:56:48] <kolie> Who ever is going to commit to the project on a long term basis
[22:56:25] <kolie> decade +
[22:56:19] <kolie> Yea I've been working with PHP for decades.
[22:56:14] <mechanicjay> I ENJOY writing in PHP
[22:56:03] <mechanicjay> Actually, I'm a staunch PHP defender.
[22:55:59] <kolie> lol
[22:55:49] <chromas> That's 'cause everyone hates it :D
[22:55:46] <bryan> and people know who to blame when it blows up
[22:55:45] <kolie> you have to smell like grandpa.
[22:55:37] <kolie> no one actually works on perl :)
[22:55:28] <chromas> If you forget perl
[22:55:20] <kolie> php the most hated to work on language.
[22:55:11] <chromas> it's already a slashdot-alike but more modernerer under the hood and in a language people still know how to use
[22:54:34] <chromas> May as well move over to pipecode then
[22:54:21] <kolie> if I'm calling the shots - and the tech was up to me - the perl has to go.
[22:53:56] * Deucalion knows kung-fu
[22:53:40] <kolie> And not break it in the meantime.
[22:53:33] <kolie> I can rewrite it.
[22:53:27] <chromas> Can you hack on the perl code?
[22:53:25] <kolie> i have.
[22:53:19] <Deucalion> Then you need to talk with him and Matt Angel about the PBC
[22:52:52] <kolie> So im talking with ncommander and I wouldn't mind taking over from his side of operations and doing this different and right.
[22:51:47] <chromas> I also set up a copy but just got a file not found on the server
[22:51:46] <Deucalion> Good timing :)
[22:51:24] <Deucalion> Ahhh.... I just grabbed the tarball from pipecode.org. No matter, I only just unpacked it.
[22:51:21] <ted-ious> So much for an easy import. :)
[22:51:05] <bryan> ted-ious: as slashcode? not even close
[22:50:18] <bryan> i never really updated those
[22:50:14] <ted-ious> Does pipecode use the same database schema?
[22:50:12] <bryan> make sure it's the github version and not the tarball from wayback when
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[22:49:33] <Deucalion> bryan, Weridly I'm just in the throes of trying to get pipecode up and running on a vanilla server ::D :D
[22:48:59] <mechanicjay> well, that's good news at least
[22:47:29] <bryan> konbanwa :)
[22:47:28] <kolie> And it works well and was an upgrade in doing so.
[22:47:22] <kolie> Its on single mysql right now is my understanding.
[22:47:13] <mechanicjay> Yep, there were some plans to roll back to single mysql, I don't know if that ever got executed on -- due to the old school nature of the software, the database driver and connection strings get COMPILED into mod_slash -- which just adds another layer of complexity.
[22:47:09] * Deucalion aka juggs]
[22:47:00] <Deucalion> Hi bryan o/ was just typing a reply to your mail!
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[22:44:59] <mechanicjay> Yeah, I work with far worse on a daily basis in $dayjob
[22:44:59] <kolie> not properly operating mysql gets you corruption doesnt mattrer what you put on top of it.
[22:44:36] <kolie> yea the db schema from what ive seen seemed atleast saneish
[22:44:16] <mechanicjay> exactly -- The issue isn't really the structure of the database -- it's the cluster configuration which was ill conceived and poorly understood from the get go.
[22:43:34] <kolie> So I see a few areas. Theres the dev ops, theres the tech stack, and theres the governance/direction/policies.
[22:42:31] <kolie> I wouldn't change anything beyond fetch and build page until it slows down or theres reason to.
[22:42:14] <ted-ious> kolie: I think some of those decisions were premature optimization like making the database a zero downtime cluster.
[22:41:31] <ted-ious> Post id and post text might not be enough for what it takes to generate a page.
[22:40:38] <kolie> Theres a lot of tech decisions that are suboptimal due to the old architecture. Retrieving articles and pages and caching decisions are a plenty.
[22:40:37] <ted-ious> Hmm I didn't type that very well I should have been explicit about it being the comments.
[22:39:22] <ted-ious> mechanicjay: Would you say that the big part of the database for articles could be replaced with a key value store?
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[21:57:49] <kolie> WDF_VIOATION
[21:57:42] <chromas> Like a crash? Or is it the newer one where windows tells you "DON'T WORRY YOUR FILES ARE RIGHT WHERE YOU LEFT THEM"?
[21:56:37] <kolie> :)
[21:56:33] <kolie> bluescreen.
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[21:46:17] <progo> XML and XML, lovingly embraced
[21:45:53] <progo> Office 365 and Firefox Edge edition would be great together
[21:45:40] <progo> lol
[21:45:25] <chromas> MS should've used Firefox for Edge. I recall reading that it's s shitshow under the hood, so it's just perfect for a Microsoft project
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[21:44:26] <progo> (the attack: Youtube shipped bad client-side code, only to MS Edge [pre-chromium]. people thought Edge sucked. it didn't)
[21:43:32] <progo> MS couldn't complain because they'd done the same thing to dozens of companies
[21:43:13] <progo> and YouTube very deliberately caused the death of the non-chromium MS Edge
[21:42:52] <progo> no one cares most of the time
[21:42:49] <progo> I keep reminding people that Firefox and Chromium are both beholden to Google money and do what Google wishes
[21:42:43] <ted-ious> That's like letting the world's biggest bank robber buy safe deposit boxes in your vault.
[21:42:09] <ted-ious> They never should have taken google's money in exchange for promoting chrome.
[21:41:55] <progo> probably had tens of millions of Sync users when Firefox Sync Server was written
[21:41:23] <chromas> I'm not sure if Firefox itself even has millions of users though
[21:40:58] <progo> sounds like a small version of what happened with Google Wave: big giant mess supported by brute force. project cancelled. "y'all FOSS people want this? have fun."
[21:40:56] <chromas> It makes sense to break it into multiple servers I guess, if you're hosting millions of users
[21:40:34] <progo> enterprise
[21:40:33] <chromas> there's the sync server itself, plus an oauth server, and I don't remember what the other was for
[21:40:32] <progo> oof
[21:40:05] <chromas> it is, but when I tried it it was a lot of work because you needed like three different servers to get it going
[21:39:27] <progo> ( @chromas )
[21:38:59] <progo> pretty sure firefox sync server is FOSS you can own yourself
[21:38:51] <progo> would be great if it did do that
[21:38:43] <progo> I think not, last time I checked
[21:33:32] <chromas> progo: no firefox sync integration?
[21:20:00] <Bytram> mechanicjay: I concur about TMB... His adhd (?) made it challenging to follow along with this thinking at times, but I'm sure I am not without quirks and issues, too!
[21:04:57] <progo> Thunderbird still works. unfortunately it can't sync its personal local state with itself on your other computer
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[21:03:54] <progo> those days are gone, except for some Steve Gibson fans
[21:03:44] <progo> *sigh
[21:03:42] <progo> "best feature that ___ had…" -- random stupid idea: I wish we could get everyone to use NNTP again. let them run all of the presentation, layout, navigation, etc. locally in their personal server or personal computer :^)
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[20:56:10] <ted-ious> The best feature that scoop had was giving you a little icon next to each new comment since the last time you loaded the page.
[20:55:01] <ted-ious> Oh I must have missed that.
[20:54:43] <mechanicjay> He dropped into the comments of janrinok's Meta story -- I've been in touch with him a couple times since his departure.
[20:51:31] <ted-ious> I'd bet you a commitment of a few hours a week for 5 years that he'd appreciate hearing from you. ;)
[20:50:37] <ted-ious> mechanicjay: Well maybe you should drop him a line and remind him of that. :)
[20:49:58] <ted-ious> The replacement of the database cluster with just simple 1 node mysql is a game changer from the stability and maintenance standpoint.
[20:49:53] <mechanicjay> I would work with TMB again anytime any where, he's good people and a great colleague.
[20:49:15] <ted-ious> I'm not volunteering for anything yet but I did pay a bit of attention to the recovery efforts and from what I saw there was a technical path forward.
[20:47:54] <ted-ious> Then the next few questions after the elephant one would be how you want to rebuild things and if you would work with people like tmb in a different work environment.
[20:45:55] <mechanicjay> ted-ious: I would be happy to see the site continue. Practically, the state of the backend is a disaster modulo whatever Ncommander has done the last couple months. I stepped away from things when he came back at the end of last year, so I'm not super current on how things look.
[20:40:22] <kolie> But understanding the bedrock "this is my ideal".
[20:40:12] <kolie> And no ones going to give the same answer but theres shades of overlap and what we can accept and agree on.
[20:39:39] <kolie> I mean theres what will be, and theres what I personally think right.
[20:39:24] <ted-ious> I don't think it's possible to have a perfect anything but I can tell you what doesn't work.
[20:39:19] <kolie> I'm not in charge. I'm asking you a hypothetical scenario to get your input on whats your heart on that one.
[20:38:42] <ted-ious> Are you offering to let me be in charge? :)
[20:38:04] <kolie> ted-ious if you were calling the shots - whats your take on the perfect SN content policy.
[20:33:15] <ted-ious> There are people who have contributed more than my few hundred submissions who left because of that elephant.
[20:31:39] <ted-ious> So you have to address it.
[20:31:31] <ted-ious> The content moderation policy might not be a magic answer but it's also a poison pill to some of the people who would or were involved.
[20:28:12] <kolie> The content policy there is no magic answer. I'd like to discuss it and understand the intricacies of the stronger points that matter.
[20:27:43] <kolie> Anyways I've got to work but I'd like to offer whatever I can to talk this out, get a roadmap, and as stated my goal is to keep sn together, fix things that got us here and some outstanding long term issues, and grow the community as is. its been on the decline.
[20:27:40] <ted-ious> kolie: I can tell your words are heart felt and I share your feelings but there's still that elephant in the room.
[20:26:30] <kolie> Shutting down for me - not only is there loss - it just feels like giving up. And hey maybe a lot of people here are just tired and done with it.
[20:25:48] <kolie> I remember when a lot of us disappeared from slashdot. I loved slashdot. I feel we captured that but I remember the loss I felt there when SN cut off.
[20:24:27] <kolie> We contributed in whatever way here I imagine for the same reason. There was good there.
[20:23:57] <kolie> Whatever has been building up and leading us here was not great and a lot of people just doing th ebest they can and feeling raw.
[20:23:53] <ted-ious> mechanicjay: Well do you want to save the site or do you want it to shut down?
[20:22:58] <mechanicjay> No, I'm afraid that it would just end up being nasty and airing dirty laundry.
[20:22:54] <kolie> It's not so binary and we've had a lot to be emotional over with the sudden actions and rugpull.
[20:22:38] <kolie> Doesn;t mean it can't bne said or its over thats a bit of a stretch from one to the other.
[20:22:27] <kolie> I think he means he feels strongly and can't quite articulate it correctly for a public forum without inducing his feelings too much.
[20:21:36] <ted-ious> mechanicjay: I think your words are probably some of the most important so if you can't talk about them in front of what's left of the community then it's basically all over.
[20:20:05] <kolie> Theres not many places like it and I've always known it was valuable.
[20:19:56] <ted-ious> kolie: Well I think that's the only way forward that doesn't involve the website being turned into a memorial page.
[20:19:39] <kolie> I do want to improve and keep SN going.
[20:19:16] <kolie> I don't know yet if thats the right move for me or for SN.
[20:19:03] <kolie> If thats whats needed, and what people want, I can adequately fill that role.
[20:18:42] <kolie> We can all discuss what that is civilly and what we can agree on.
[20:18:40] <ted-ious> Aren't you volunteering to take over ownership and leadership?
[20:18:34] <mechanicjay> I have so many words and none of them appropriate for a public forum.
[20:18:17] <kolie> It's not my cards.
[20:17:44] <ted-ious> So before you're going to get any more enthusiasm from people to commit to helping you're going to have to put those cards on the table.
[20:17:17] <kolie> And there is no answer that satisfies everyone but there is the direction and tone an ideal sets that lets you weigh those choices.
[20:16:37] <ted-ious> Censorship or what others like to call content moderation.
[20:16:28] <kolie> Thats a very large component of it as well.
[20:16:14] <ted-ious> I think I can save you a lot of time and typing by pointing out that the elephant in the room is censorship and whether or not the site will continue to be mostly apolitical.
[20:15:54] <kolie> I know he wants SN to continue though his message might seem to contradict that.
[20:15:34] <kolie> So wether he continues on or not it's a small component of the big picture.
[20:15:17] <kolie> I see it as a final cry for help and saying - this is where its going to end up withotu fixing things and he just seems burnt out
[20:14:58] <kolie> His announcement was a rugpull and a kick in the gut.
[20:14:11] <kolie> So I'd like to start a dialogue on removing those problems and getting a roadmap and people together to continue the great parts of what we have here, and making sure they maintain into the future, and actually growing the community as well in a healthy natural way.
[20:13:26] <kolie> He just knows it wasnt working as is and we all agree that.
[20:13:16] <kolie> I think ncommander more than anything - wants SN to continue and be successful. I think we all want that.
[20:12:56] <kolie> Not to get to personal just being transparent.
[20:12:43] <kolie> Super healthy move.
[20:12:41] <kolie> Yea.
[20:12:40] <kolie> So good to be done.
[20:12:38] <ted-ious> Um well I guess I'm happy for you?
[20:12:37] <kolie> I was being abused and this is just knotting it.
[20:12:27] <ted-ious> Oh.
[20:12:21] <kolie> Its a good thing.
[20:12:17] <kolie> Finalizing a divorce thats been three years.
[20:12:09] <ted-ious> Uh oh nothing bad I hope?
[20:11:55] <ted-ious> Great!
[20:11:51] <kolie> I have a court appearance in the AM so im prepping for that.
[20:11:40] <kolie> Just wanted to put it out there I cant talk rn but I'll be able to probably tommorow a lot more.
[20:11:17] <ted-ious> IRC is a very good way to chat when people are busy and popping in and out. :)
[20:10:48] <ted-ious> kolie: That's good to know.
[20:10:34] <kolie> I've spoken with ncommander before and now and I've got a very very positive conversation there.
[20:10:07] <kolie> hey im working rn id like to cha tmore though.
[20:07:01] <ted-ious> I guess alot of the news on the wind will depend on people like you.
[20:02:11] <ted-ious> Some people are sad it's ending and some people are mad and others want to save it.
[20:01:32] <ted-ious> It's probably what you'd expect.
[19:58:58] <mechanicjay> I'm just seeing what news is on the wind given the announcement.
[19:58:19] <ted-ious> Are you here to say goodbye or do you still have hopes?
[19:57:58] <ted-ious> Hi mechanicjay.
[19:57:38] <mechanicjay> howdy
[19:55:18] <ted-ious> What are you thinking?
[19:55:09] <ted-ious> kolie: There are other people who might help under new management too.
[19:07:32] <kolie> o7 mechanicjay
[18:56:07] -!- mode/#soylent [+v mechanicjay] by Imogen
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[18:01:18] <kolie> Sure.
[18:00:14] <janrinok> I am a bit busy at the moment. Please, just email me and I WILL make contact
[17:59:55] <kolie> You can call me from a burner.
[17:59:48] <kolie> You can have mine. You can call me on discord.
[17:59:41] <kolie> I know hes burnt out for sure.
[17:59:39] <janrinok> And to be honest I don't give my phone number out in public. I'm sure that you understand.
[17:59:17] <kolie> I'd appreciate your insight into the manner but let's not speak for him.
[17:58:59] <kolie> He may or may not be but I can work with him to get things where it needs to be if hes in the picture or not.
[17:58:38] <janrinok> no, I am a Brit but I live in France. I'd prefer an email because I am doing other things too at the moment. NCommander does not want to be involved.
[17:58:23] <kolie> We've spoken prior.
[17:58:15] <kolie> I can work with ncommander too.
[17:58:06] <kolie> This is serious for me. Let's talk email is a little uhh passive.
[17:57:46] <kolie> You mind a call now?
[17:57:42] <kolie> Your french right?
[17:57:33] <kolie> I'm a software engineer. I own a hosting provider and custom software outfit. I've been through the Entrepreneurial cyrcle dozens of times. I have a corporate job doing large M&A. I've ran large community based projects before.
[17:56:58] <janrinok> send me your details via email please, and I will keep you informed : janrinok [at] soylentnews.org
[17:56:12] <janrinok> what are your skills or where do you think you would best fit in?
[17:55:17] <janrinok> Well the domain and the PBC are not controlled by us, so some kind of change is essential. As we cannot maintain the Perl code we will have to find an alternative. I realise that the disruption and any change of name will not do us any favours but we have no other options.
[17:55:11] <kolie> I'd like to help.
[17:54:15] <kolie> Theres a lot of value here and its pretty difficult to capture that again. I love SN.
[17:53:33] <kolie> Another move is going to incur damage. Ultimately probably it can get were it needs to be again.
[17:52:47] <kolie> I think you have a path forward where you are now.
[17:52:10] <janrinok> well, we are getting ready to move again if we can get things sorted out in the time remaining.
[17:51:33] <kolie> I think SN is a treasure - I value it and the community greatly - and to me it is something worth keeping around.
[17:50:57] <kolie> Hey guys. I read about SN. I've been in the background of SN since the days of before it didnt exist, it hadn't been even considered, and all of us where still happy on /.
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[16:19:33] <progo> MSM has been training the opposite, for years
[16:19:21] <progo> more people will be happy if you somehow train them to be tolerant and to ignore people they don't like
[16:17:13] <janrinok> it will never make everybody happy - but if we can hit the middle of the road I think most people are content.
[16:16:00] <progo> I have no idea how moderation can be made so it keeps most people happy :^)
[16:15:22] <progo> I didn't reply to the blog posts -- didn't have useful coherent thoughts to add. but I do think there's a place in the world for a news aggregator with a board of gatekeepers to keep the thread starter messages sane
[16:14:12] <janrinok> there might be a replacement - we are still looking at the options
[16:13:41] <progo> sorry the organization is folding :^(
[16:13:19] <progo> do I need to repent, or pay an indulgence somewhere?
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[15:59:23] <janrinok> well, maybe
[15:59:11] <janrinok> a new start....
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[15:55:51] <Ellenor> end is nigh??
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[03:22:28] <poutine> That seems exceptionally cruel considering their place in life
[03:16:35] <chromas> I go into nursing homes and tell all the old people they were never going to live forever
[03:05:15] <poutine> I just wanted to say that I always said it wasn't going to work out
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