#soylent | Logs for 2022-07-09
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[02:45:04] <Runaway1956> https://www.youtube.com
[02:45:06] <systemd> ^ 03Buddy Brown tells a “ BIDEN JOKE” and we can't stop laughing! 😆
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[03:28:05] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Making It More Difficult to Shill Recommender Systems - https://sylnt.us - pernicious-prevaricators
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[08:18:24] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Accused of ‘Unfair’ Practices, Apple Faces App Store Court Battle in UK - https://sylnt.us
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[08:34:05] <Nemesis> Just logging in for the Big. Cannot imagine what it might be, but it's gotta be Big!!!
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[08:48:28] <FatPhil> just when you thought he couldn't get more stupid, he gets more stupid...
[08:54:15] <janrinok> I think if one excels at something it is only right to show off a little - and he does excel at being stupid, you have to admit.
[08:54:55] <janrinok> I just hope he reads it ALL before being silly.
[09:02:54] <Nemesis> and, again, just who do you think you deziens of the internets think you are referring to? Not me, mon ami!!
[09:05:32] <janrinok> well, ask yourself who has just logged in, and then take it from there.
[09:08:17] <FatPhil> How does self-awareness work when you have so many personalities?
[09:14:56] <c0lo> Social conscience? Or anti
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[09:18:56] <janrinok> c0lo, you are coming to the end of your day aren't you? So good evening to you, from a very pleasant morning here!
[09:19:35] <janrinok> I have also run out of excuses not to mow the lawns. That will take a couple of hours today.
[09:45:27] <Nemesis> I am whp I am, I am Popeye the saiilor man.
[09:49:20] <Nemesis> When is the Big discussion? janrinoK is coming out as trans? Runsaway is a pacifist? Or chromas is a real person? So many things to be amazed at.
[09:57:38] <janrinok> at the time it says in the pending stories. I can't help it if you log on early.
[10:05:42] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The BIG Discussion [* AC Friendly *] - https://sylnt.us
[10:09:43] <c0lo> Good morning, jan.
[10:13:42] <c0lo> A Melb winter evening here (i.e. not quite 12h TZ diff)
[10:14:07] <Nemesis> Good ,morning, jan!
[10:14:10] <c0lo> =submit popcorn-ready-guys? https://www.theguardian.com
[10:14:12] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Musk’s Withdrawal From Twitter Deal Sets Stage for Long Court Battle" (17p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[10:52:10] <c0lo> =submit for-the-weekend https://ilovemanchester.com
[10:52:15] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Blackpool's Genius Madame Tussauds Stunt Puts Boris Waxwork Outside Job Centre" (23p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[10:58:51] <c0lo> =submit https://www.theguardian.com
[10:58:54] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Dark Matter: Search for the Invisible Begins in an Old Gold Mine" (24p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[11:01:11] <c0lo> Why-oh-why? https://www.theguardian.com
[11:01:12] <systemd> ^ 03Finland passes law to bolster border fence with Russia
[11:14:11] <c0lo> TIL the 'slut-stud' paradox is a thing.
[11:15:55] <c0lo> =doi 10.1177/1088868319891310
[11:15:57] <systemd> <p><b>Journal Reference</b>:<br/><b>Just a moment...</b>, <cite></cite> (DOI: <a href="https://doi.org/10.1177/1088868319891310">10.1177/1088868319891310</a>)</p>
[11:16:55] <c0lo> https://journals.sagepub.com
[11:16:56] <systemd> ^ 03Just a moment...
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[11:17:39] <c0lo> =submit https://www.smh.com.au
[11:17:41] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03If a Woman Had Nine Children by Three Fathers She Wouldn’t be a CEO Like Elon Musk" (32p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[11:23:39] <Nemesis> Well subbed, c0lo!
[11:25:38] <c0lo> =submit interesting https://www.afr.com
[11:25:41] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Porsche-backed E-fuels Maker to Build $1b Australian Plant" (40p) -> https://soylentnews.org
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[11:35:27] <FatPhil> The article seems to overlook the fact that child production is intrinsically asymmetric. One should not expect a symmetrical outcome given an asymmetrical input.
[11:45:05] <c0lo> FatPhil has a GF but no kids yet.
[11:45:30] <c0lo> Child production isn't the most taxing element of the equation.
[11:46:00] <Runaway1956> Maybe not yet, but we plan to start taxing children in the near future.
[11:46:32] <c0lo> As capital gains, Runaway?
[11:46:49] <FatPhil> No kids ever, happily childfree
[11:46:58] <Runaway1956> You betcha! Not our fault you don't rent the kids out for profit.
[11:48:04] <c0lo> Happily thriwing in amateur considerations about child production then, FatPhil.
[11:48:22] <c0lo> s/thriw/throw/
[11:48:22] <SedBot> <c0lo> Happily throwing in amateur considerations about child production then, FatPhil.
[11:49:04] <FatPhil> Human biology doesn't change dependent on my behaviour.
[11:49:20] <FatPhil> Do you think I'm some kind of deity or something?
[11:50:57] <janrinok> lol
[11:53:08] * Runaway1956 is quite sure that FatPhil is something
[11:55:04] <c0lo> Hmmm... I don't think you're anything deity, but I seem to remember a certain signature.
[12:00:33] <FatPhil> I'm flattered you find my wit so memorable.
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[12:00:54] <Runaway1956> s/wit/tit/
[12:08:51] <c0lo> Takes that little to flatter you, eh?
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[12:51:58] <Nemesis> Big story is a flop.,
[12:52:27] <Nemesis> Good Day!
[12:52:38] <Nemesis> ?quit
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[13:20:15] <FatPhil> Bye Ari, see you tomorrow.
[14:00:16] <FatPhil> https://www.theblock.co
[14:00:19] <systemd> ^ 03Decentral Bank fixes bug that let one user mint 10 trillion USN for just $10
[14:52:31] <c0lo> =submit https://www.wionews.com
[14:52:34] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Work From Home is Now a Legal Right in Netherlands - World News" (13p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:53:07] <c0lo> original is on bloomborg https://www.bloomberg.com
[14:53:08] <systemd> ^ 03Bloomberg - Are you a robot? ( https://www.bloomberg.com )
[14:56:55] <janrinok> c0lo - you might want to try moderating again....
[14:58:24] <janrinok> ... there appears to have been a nbsp in one of the fields on your page where it shouldn't be. I'm clutching at straws, but it might have been the problem.
[15:01:04] <janrinok> hit one of mine if you want
[15:08:57] <c0lo> janrinok, I have 50 karma but no mod points. Other sraws, the fault may be related to the daily allocation of mod points skipping my account. Or maybe somehow my modpoints are hugely negative or invalid in the DB, so that the allocation of mods result in an error
[15:10:11] <janrinok> OK, perhaps I have been looking for the wrong thing.
[15:10:49] <FatPhil> can someone do a select on the db to see what it thinks your modpoints are?
[15:11:22] <janrinok> It might still be the correct solution - you will not get any more mod points until 00:10 utc - so perhaps look again tomorrow.
[15:11:31] <janrinok> FatPhil, yes but not immediately.
[15:13:11] <c0lo> Ok, thanks, I'll have another look tomoz, janrinok
[15:14:11] <c0lo> =submit do-your-tyres-tire https://www.gizmodo.com.au
[15:14:13] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Just Build Your Own Using Plastic Drainage Pipe While We Wait for Airless Tires" (6p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[15:22:43] <FatPhil> c0lo: are you seeing the ``You have <b>[% user.points %]...'' text?
[15:33:33] <c0lo> FatPhil, no. Only 'Karma: 50'
[15:58:34] <FatPhil> That confirms that by the time it's got to the templating engine, user.points <= 0, and that ought to be populated from a query somewhere.
[16:01:44] <FatPhil> I'll keep hunting. git grep -w -i update.*users_info yielded nothing, which is pretty bizarre...
[16:07:32] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - 'Yu-Gi-Oh!' Manga Creator Kazuki Takahashi Found Dead at Sea - https://sylnt.us
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[17:46:26] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Alder Lake-Powered Linux Laptop Arrives With 14 Hours of Battery Life - https://sylnt.us - intel-management-engine-included-for-free
[18:13:36] <ted-ious> Sometimes the site has a perfect sense of humor with its random quotes at the bottom.
[18:13:47] <ted-ious> I once witnessed a long-winded, month-long flamewar over the use of mice vs. trackballs... It was very silly. -- Matt Welsh
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[18:30:55] <applesmasher> Where, if anywhere, is discussion of janrinok's the BIG discussion post happening?
[18:38:56] <ted-ious> https://soylentnews.org comments.
[18:39:00] <systemd> ^ 03The BIG Discussion [* AC Friendly *] - SoylentNews
[18:39:16] <ted-ious> Lots of comments to read.
[18:39:16] <applesmasher> So, no realtime discussion on IRC?
[18:39:23] <applesmasher> I've read them.
[18:40:52] <ted-ious> Some people come by and argue but from what I can tell it's really one guy called aristarchus with lots of aliases.
[18:41:16] <ted-ious> And I don't have any interest in that argument.
[18:41:45] <applesmasher> Yeah, I know about him. Not worth the electrons his complaints are written in. I'm talking about substantive planning to solve identifiable problems.
[18:45:13] <FatPhil> APK's as annoying a waste of time as Ari. But the problems aren't limited to those two.
[18:45:48] <ted-ious> I don't know applesmasher.
[18:46:05] <applesmasher> I know. This is actually my field, which is why I have concrete suggestions to make, and to which I could contribute, but first I want to gauge the general of shits given. If it closely approximates nil, I'll go do something more constructive.
[18:46:12] <ted-ious> It's not illegal to be an annoying spammer is it?
[18:46:12] <janrinok> Its only the first day, not even 12 hours yet. There is plenty of time for someone to start a discussion.
[18:47:00] <janrinok> Feel free to kick it off
[18:47:08] <ted-ious> I mean it's illegal to ddos a website but I don't know if you could charge somebody with just spamming stupid stuff in comments.
[18:47:34] <applesmasher> https://soylentnews.org
[18:47:35] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews Comments | The BIG Discussion [* AC Friendly *]
[18:48:03] <applesmasher> That's the kick-off. Short version: current architecture is not fit for purpose. Rebuild or put up with it.
[18:50:45] <FatPhil> It's not so far from fit for purpose that throwing it away makes sense.
[18:51:29] <applesmasher> OK, if you think so, then explain how you accommodate multiple conflicting points of view while allowing for anonymous communication.
[18:52:53] <applesmasher> Hint: translating one person's moderation opinion into something that affects everyone else's view is inherently contrary to that purpose.
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[18:58:29] <applesmasher> (Please note: if your answer involves a simple matter of perl mangling, observe that you first need a perl coder.)
[19:00:14] <ted-ious> I think that's the main problem.
[19:00:44] <applesmasher> Right. Which is the crux of the proposal.
[19:02:41] <ted-ious> But if you rewrite the website doesn't that mean you'll have to start over with everything else?
[19:03:00] <ted-ious> Or do you suggest freezing the old site so people can still read it?
[19:03:30] <applesmasher> Freezing it would work. If the DB can be logically extracted it can even be re-imported into a fresh architecture.
[19:10:48] <FatPhil> we have a perl coder, rumours of the absence of perl coding skills is greatly exagerated.
[19:11:51] <FatPhil> However, your view of what the problem is is different from mine, so I'm not even going to suggest fixing that, that's not the bit that's broken.
[19:12:31] <applesmasher> Hemocyanin's demonstration undermines that position.
[19:12:46] <FatPhil> which demonstration?
[19:13:19] <applesmasher> His analysis of moderation - since deleted, as he apparently gave up in disgust.
[19:13:41] <FatPhil> pics or it didn't happen
[19:14:38] <applesmasher> Fine, ignore hemocyanin. If you consider the development of cliques not to be a problem, then all I can do is suggest that you get used to the status quo, because you're fostering it. Enjoy.
[19:15:22] <applesmasher> Cliques can thrive where their collective behaviour sways the result for the whole. Remove that, and they turn into impotent mutual admiration societies.
[19:15:49] <ted-ious> I thought there was some problem and you can't delete anything from the site?
[19:15:59] <applesmasher> It was in his journal.
[19:16:27] <ted-ious> Is that different somehow?
[19:16:49] <FatPhil> you can delete your journals
[19:17:00] <ted-ious> I don't know how the site works I can only go by what other people are saying.
[19:17:36] <FatPhil> cliques are natural, your attempt to separate people into bubbles makes things even *more* cliquey
[19:21:05] <janrinok> There is a 'delete' option, but it is not always reliable. The debugging of that particular function seems to have been minimal, because the feeling was that any deletions would/could appear as censorship. However, I have used it on dev and it seems to work far more often than not. I just don't know how - nor have I the time - to identify why it is unreliable for a very small number of uses.
[19:25:03] <janrinok> Another problem is simply a UI issue - the delete button for those that have it is exactly where someone who couldn't see it would press 'Save'. I suspect that muscle memory might have played a part in the past and deletions have occurred by mistake. I think that might have happened to me this morning!
[19:25:33] <janrinok> lost a couple of hours work!
[19:26:16] <applesmasher> Cliques are inherent, but the problem isn't the existence of cliques so much as cliques wrecking the experience of non-members, including but not limited to battling cliques.
[19:26:38] <applesmasher> The idea is to adapt to, and address human nature rather than attempting to ignore it.
[19:29:31] <applesmasher> idling a few. Back in a bit.
[19:29:47] <janrinok> I'm not sure why you suggest changing the DB - it is mysql and the data in it seems well organised and efficient. I cannot see any benefit from throwing it away or even re-importing it.
[19:30:14] <janrinok> But I have got to go, another 14 hour day in happyland! Laters guys.
[19:35:14] <FatPhil> win 12
[19:48:46] <applesmasher> The DB is a sideshow compared to the user experience. Use Oracle if you think that it's the smartest way forward.
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[20:39:41] <ted-ious> https://m.independent.ie
[20:39:44] <systemd> ^ 03Elon Musk’s Twitter account suspended after he terminates $44bn deal to buy company ( https://www.independent.ie )
[20:39:51] <ted-ious> This is wrong.
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[20:54:36] <ted-ious> I can't find anything he has posted in the past day or so but the account is still there.
[20:56:54] <Runaway1956> Hmmmm - I don't know if it is good or bad that the deal fell through . . .
[20:57:08] <Runaway1956> Not a tweeter, so I never had a dog in that fight.
[20:57:57] <Runaway1956> Now, if Musk went to Gab, I think a lot of good things could happen
[20:58:58] <ted-ious> Except gab is totally hostile to anonymous readers.
[20:59:41] <ted-ious> That's the only reason twitter is worth anything now.
[20:59:54] <Runaway1956> Thank all the aristarchuses who tried to sabotage Gab I guess
[21:00:15] <FatPhil> his username there is gabistarchus
[21:00:37] <Runaway1956> For real? Wouldn't surprise me.
[21:01:12] <requerdanos> If musk went far-right nutjob, his switch to "gab" would be probably the least newsworthy part of the change.
[21:34:35] <FatPhil> musk's no RWNJ, he's more a libertardian.
[21:44:46] <FatPhil> has someone subbed this story/update yet: https://indianexpress.com
[21:44:46] <systemd> ^ 03Elon Musk abandons deal to buy Twitter; company says it will sue
[21:50:51] <Runaway1956> https://www.sott.net
[21:50:52] <systemd> ^ 03Elon Musk backs out of Twitter deal after realizing he can read The Babylon Bee by going directly to their website -- Sott.net
[21:51:38] <Runaway1956> It appears that one version of that story has been subbed FatPhil
[21:52:01] <Runaway1956> Two versions - probably not same version you have
[21:53:55] <Runaway1956> So, Dear Wife says, "Why don't you make spaghetti?" and puts two cans of store-bought spaghetti sauce on counter, along with ground beef and package of spaghetti.
[21:54:12] <Runaway1956> She comes back and asks, "What did you do to the spaghetti sauce?"
[21:54:58] <Runaway1956> I only chopped up one large onion, one quite large bell pepper, half a dozen medium large tomatoes, and 4 cloves of garlic
[21:55:26] <Runaway1956> That increased the volume of the sauce by 50% or more, all of it good HEALTHY food!
[21:55:54] <Runaway1956> Now I just need to simmer long enough for it to thicken up some.
[22:01:24] <fliptop> Runaway1956: just reading your comments on the BigD
[22:03:22] <fliptop> The whole thing seems like a terrible waste of everyone's time. Including the offender
[22:07:27] <FatPhil> Runaway1956: top tip for spaghetti - add celery. unless you hate celery.
[22:09:09] <Runaway1956> Celery is good, but we never seem to have any - I use celery seed though
[22:09:24] <Runaway1956> Too true, fliptop
[22:37:56] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Algorithm Predicts Crime a Week in Advance, but Reveals Bias in Police Response - https://sylnt.us - patterns-of-life
[23:48:37] <Runaway1956> =submit https://www.digitaltrends.com Didn't Heinlein predict this?
[23:48:40] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03International Space Station Has New Way to Dispose of Trash" (7p) -> https://soylentnews.org