#soylent | Logs for 2021-12-02

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[00:44:29] <Bytram> Programming puzzle for anyone interested... I have 2 files. File "A" contain the names of all 50 states and DC (giving 51, total) each name on a separate line. File "B" has the names of 24 states (again one state name per line). I'd like to output the name of each state that IS in file "A" and that IS NOT in file "B". (I thought there was a command to do just that, but cannot find it, now).
[00:48:09] <AzumaHazuki> diff them, then pipe through sort?
[00:49:01] <Bytram> Hmmm
[00:49:30] <AzumaHazuki> thought you had me on ignore? =P
[00:50:19] <Bytram> that went away long ago
[00:52:41] <Bytram> I was thinking the command was "col" or "column" -- but those are not it. There was a numerical arg like "-23" which selected the column(s) to include/exclude?
[00:55:10] <AzumaHazuki> awk maybe? hard to use, though. awk-ward, even
[00:56:59] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Supersonic Projectile Exceeds Engineers Dreams: The Supersonic Trebuchet - https://sylnt.us - whip-it-good!
[00:57:17] <Bytram> AWK is an initialism of the authors' names
[00:59:47] <Bytram> I could write am AWK script (I've written hundreds), but I don't want to reinvent the wheel. The command was in the MKS Toolkit ca 1997
[01:00:48] <Bytram> can it was something like: cmdname -12 filename1 filemame2
[01:01:21] <Bytram> or: cmdname -23 filename1 filemame2
[01:03:57] <Bytram> selected lines that were in file1 and not in file2, OR was not in file1 but WAS in file2, or... the numeric arg selected what was output from the input files
[01:06:49] <Bytram> Think I found it: comm (1)
[01:09:19] <Bytram> input files need to be sorted... biab
[01:18:40] <Bytram> what was it. To show those names that appear ONLY in file1: comm -1 file1 file2
[01:18:51] <Bytram> s/w/t/
[01:18:52] <SedBot> <Bytram> that was it. To show those names that appear ONLY in file1: comm -1 file1 file2
[01:20:49] <Bytram> thankfully I still had my printed copy of the manual (about 24 years old!)
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[03:46:40] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Judge Blocks Biden Vaccine Rule, Citing "Liberty Interests of the Unvaccinated" - https://sylnt.us - liberty-or-death
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[06:37:28] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Unorthodox "Exercise in a Pill" Could Offer Simple Solution for At-Risk Patients - https://sylnt.us - eye-see-watt-you-did-there
[07:25:36] <chromas> AzumaHazuki++ # gawkworthy punnification
[07:25:36] <Bender> karma - azumahazuki: 86
[07:34:39] <FatPhil> I'd forgotten the name of 'comm' too. I don't use it at all often.
[07:37:08] <FatPhil> a better way might be to use grep with -v and this switch:
[07:37:10] <FatPhil> -f FILE, --file=FILE
[07:37:10] <FatPhil> Obtain patterns from FILE, one per line.
[07:38:25] <FatPhil> plus this: -x, --line-regexp
[07:38:25] <FatPhil> Select only those matches that exactly match the whole line.
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[09:36:36] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Omicron is Now in the U.S., with First Case Found in California - https://sylnt.us - ten-percent-of-the-US-population-lives-in-California
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[12:16:48] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Lawsuit: Google Employees Were Fired for Upholding "Don’t be Evil" Code - https://sylnt.us - chaotic-neutral
[13:18:55] <janrinok> Bytram, diff would have given you the same information but in a different format. comm is the easier to interpret the output.
[14:48:07] <Bytram> janrinok: ty... comm did the trick, but as always seems to be the case, I had to play with several argument choices to his on the one I wanted. It did NOT help that I had a trailing space on every record in one file that was absent in the records in the other!
[15:04:22] <janrinok> Bytram, just try 'man comm' in a terminal - all the options are there.
[15:06:05] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Really Stupid “Smart Contract” Bug Let Hackers Steal $31 Million in Digital Coin - https://sylnt.us - a-few-bugs-still-need-ironing-out
[15:06:33] <Bytram> janrinok: knowing the what the options are is one thing; *understanding* them is another!
[15:07:01] <boru> I missed the programming puzzle. Feh!
[15:07:27] <boru> At least I still have Advent of Code for today.
[15:07:45] <boru> Day 2 is very Forth-y, so I'll give that a shot as well.
[15:07:54] <FatPhil> .
[15:07:59] <Bytram> And I had difficulty even remember which command I wanted in the first place added to it. Yes, "man" is my goto
[15:08:10] <boru> .S
[15:08:43] <boru> FWIW, UTP is now a free book. Probably one of the last _good_ O'Reilly books.
[15:08:50] <boru> UTP being Unix Text Processing.
[15:09:07] * Bytram misses an apparent inside forth joke?
[15:09:19] <boru> I don't know if FP was going for that, but I was.
[15:09:31] <boru> Here you go: https://www.oreilly.com
[15:09:32] <systemd> ^ 03Unix Text Processing (Hayden Books)
[15:10:20] <Bytram> Oh? I thought "Unshielded Twisted Pair"
[15:10:33] <boru> Heh, good guess, but no.
[15:10:35] <Bytram> =)
[15:10:49] <boru> `comm` is in there around page 327.
[15:11:20] <boru> A handy old book to have on your shelf.
[15:12:38] <boru> I _think_ there's a better scan on libgen, but at least this one has hyperlinks.
[15:13:24] <Bytram> It took some looking, but I found my 1997 copy of MKS Toolkit which I *knew* had what I was looking for ('cause that's where I learned of it in the first place!)
[15:13:55] <Bytram> =w MKS Toolkit
[15:13:56] <systemd> MKS Toolkit is a software package produced and maintained by PTC that provides a Unix-like environment for scripting, connectivity and porting Unix and - https://en.wikipedia.org
[15:15:16] <FatPhil> I couldn't decide what was the shortest forth in-joke which caused me to pop my stack noisily.
[15:15:25] <boru> You should have left that back in 1997. I understand that third party unix-like programs are required to make windows even remotely usable, but I can't imagine how awful it would have been to interop that with _win95_.
[15:20:32] <Bytram> boru: compared to what else was available at the time, it was a joy! Also, I needed the tests I wrote to work on both Windows and OS/2... I wrote a converter that took a custom file as input and output Windows and OS/2 variants that worked identically.
[15:21:31] <boru> Admirable, but I can't imagine it being an enjoyable experience to work with windows then.
[15:21:37] <boru> Not that I imagine it is now, either.
[15:22:18] <Bytram> Also, I was a *master* of all the tweaks and nuances and idiosyncrasies of the two platforms... documented and otherwise =)
[15:22:38] <boru> Poor fella.
[15:25:11] <Bytram> I had no access to a genuine Unix/BSD system at the time (though I had earlier when I worked at Wang and did come testing on a SCO system!)...
[15:26:04] <Bytram> s/cone/some/
[15:26:15] <Bytram> s/come/some/
[15:26:16] <SedBot> <Bytram> I had no access to a genuine Unix/BSD system at the time (though I had earlier when I worked at Wang and did some testing on a SCO system!)...
[15:26:33] <boru> SCO? Barf.
[15:26:39] <Bytram> gotta get
[15:26:39] <boru> You've really been in the wars, old chap.
[15:26:46] <Bytram> yep!!
[15:27:09] <Bytram> got to get going. thanks for the chat!
[15:27:39] <boru> Catch you later man.
[15:28:38] <FatPhil> Wang, that's also a blast from the past
[15:29:40] <FatPhil> We were running a Xenix server in my first post-university job. No idea what for, we were doing everything for DOS, then windows 3.1
[15:45:53] <boru> Weirdo
[15:47:13] <boru> So, I am not sure if you recall, but a week or so ago, I mentioned in channel about an electronic logbook program I was writing. I have a general abhorrence for GUI stuff, but would you be opposed to using an application which used a UI framework like Nuklear, as opposed to the abomination that is GTK >2 or Qt?
[15:52:10] <Tekk> Nuklear seems nice.
[16:09:50] <Bytram> boru: If I may suggest, inasmuch as possible, have the GUI process command-line inputs. The GUI is just a wrapper around "shell commands". That greatly simplifies automated testing and portability. =)
[16:10:18] <Bytram> gtg; back in a few hours.
[16:10:43] <boru> Yeah, it's very much going to be just a view on data, so if someone wants to write some other GUI, it's easy to do.
[16:11:06] <boru> I just really bloody hate GTK 3 and 4, and I'd rather avoid C++, naturally.
[16:11:58] <progo> GTK3 is killing my preferred diary app, Zim Desktop Wiki
[16:12:22] <boru> Aye, it's awful. In GTK4, they're really pushing this XML/glade crap as well.
[16:12:28] <progo> the latest Zim release -- after it transitioned to GTK3 a long time ago -- suddenly reacts to insertion of non-keyboard characters by adding the code point NUMBER as digits in the document!
[16:12:30] <progo> (in Windows)
[16:12:43] <progo> how? what? this bug shouldn't even be possible!
[16:13:16] <progo> specifically if I use WinCompose to convert a mnemonic string of keystrokes to say "…"
[16:13:23] <progo> or "ü"
[16:13:29] <progo> comes out in Zim as a code point number
[16:13:30] <progo> gah!
[16:14:05] <progo> GTK only supports GNOME
[16:14:15] <progo> all other desktops are ignored
[16:14:42] <boru> Yeah, this is what attracted me to Nuklear, but then again, it won't really integrate anywhere, then.
[16:15:05] <boru> Not that I mind, personally. I don't use DEs.
[16:15:20] <progo> ha ha
[16:15:31] <progo> use a bare display server? terminal apps?
[16:16:00] <boru> It's immediate rendering; opengl or gdi on windows, I guess.
[16:16:30] <boru> So, you still need a window toolkit, but something bare like glut et al.
[16:17:11] <boru> I don't think I'll handle inline images at first, but maybe later.
[16:19:18] <progo> sorry I didn't read the earlier context
[16:19:43] <progo> just saying GTK is SUPPOSED to work on any desktop stack, but in actuality they don't care about any integration problems anywhere but GNOME
[16:20:04] <boru> Yeah, indeed. But they also seem to have lost their minds on gnome, I'm told.
[16:20:10] <progo> I'm planning to learn Python + Tk soon. I like how Tk is very small and almost a core module in Python.
[16:20:12] <Tekk> I would say that gtk is only portable as far as the features that gimp needs
[16:20:21] <Tekk> But from what I understand gimp is only barely now on gtk3?
[16:20:31] <progo> Tekk++
[16:20:31] <Bender> karma - tekk: 2
[16:21:24] <Tekk> boru, if you like go, look at gio
[16:21:34] <Tekk> (full disclosure: a friend of mine is paid to work on gio full time. It is nice though)
[16:23:50] <progo> nice gig
[16:28:33] <boru> I really don't like go, but thanks.
[16:50:39] <Tekk> That it is.
[17:46:30] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Secret Life of Tasmanian Devils is Hiding in Their Whiskers - https://sylnt.us - Ehh,-What's-Up-Doc?
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[18:27:27] <Runaway1956> For anyone interested,
[18:27:49] <Runaway1956> I think I am pleased with my new Samsung 27" curved screens
[18:28:23] <Runaway1956> The major disappointment, are the stands: cheap, no adjustment whatsoever, they point one way, and no other way
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[18:28:55] <Runaway1956> I need to elevate them about 4 to 6 inches off the desk to enjoy them
[18:29:09] <Runaway1956> But, the monitors are pretty nice.
[18:43:32] <FatPhil> When I worked for Samsung, I saw their latest kit pre-release in Korea, and I was very impressed with their quality. My big-screen monitor, bought 3 years after leaving the company on bad terms, was a Samsung. Because I'm buying the technology, not the management structure.
[19:31:25] <Runaway1956> shopping for stands and risers is disappointing
[19:31:42] <Runaway1956> There are a lot of beautiful ones out there - none of the large enough
[19:32:02] <Runaway1956> and some large enough length and width, not high enough
[19:32:13] <Runaway1956> lot of chintzy looking adjustables
[19:32:34] <boru> Get a monitor arm. You will never go back.
[19:32:55] <Runaway1956> My computer area doesn't lend itself to mounting an arm very well
[19:33:10] <Runaway1956> much rather have something solid sitting on the desk
[19:33:50] <Runaway1956> I may end up getting two smaller risers, but that will look kinda chintzy
[19:33:55] <boru> The arms I have are clamp-ons for the desk, and the monitors don't move. I have 3x 27"; two vertical, one horizontal in the middle.
[19:34:35] <boru> All separate arms, mind you.
[19:34:49] <boru> Freeing up the desk space was worth it.
[19:35:21] <Runaway1956> also, there's a complaint about the stands on the internet - once in place, you have to take the back off the monitor to remove the stands
[19:35:27] <Runaway1956> tell me that's not crazy, huh?
[19:35:44] <boru> No? They're standard VESA mounts.
[19:35:46] <Runaway1956> so, I'm avoiding arms so I don't have to take monitors apart
[19:35:56] <boru> You detach the stands and use the same screws to attach the arms.
[19:36:09] <boru> You don't have to take them apart.
[19:36:14] <Runaway1956> These stands don't seem to be VESA
[19:36:26] <boru> Then you've been duped, man.
[19:36:32] <Runaway1956> they're bayonet
[19:36:47] <boru> I'd be surprised if there wasn't a VESA mount under that.
[19:37:44] <Runaway1956> Yes, "under that", as in, remove the back of the monitor, lol
[19:37:53] <boru> Well, no.
[19:38:17] <boru> I'm not sure how removing the stand equates to dismantling the monitor.
[19:38:24] <Runaway1956> Like I started off with, I like the monitors, but the stands leave a lot to be desired
[19:38:25] <boru> What monitor is it?
[19:39:14] <Runaway1956> Samsung LC27F396FHNXZA-RB 27" Essential Curved Monitor
[19:39:54] <Runaway1956> Looking at reviews before I purchased, that didn't show up
[19:40:22] <Runaway1956> looking at reviews AFTER purchase, a number of people have complained about the crap design of the stands, and the attaching method
[19:43:05] <boru> Man, the VESA mount is right there on the back: https://images.samsung.com
[19:43:24] <boru> See the square of 4 screws?
[19:44:23] <Runaway1956> Yes, but, you're missing the fact that I need to remove the cheap plastic bayonet mounted stands
[19:44:47] <Runaway1956> They don't have an exposed button to push to detach them
[19:45:36] <Runaway1956> Maybe this one - https://www.amazon.com
[19:46:07] <Runaway1956> Amazon search sucks - ebay has much better search functions
[19:47:11] <Runaway1956> Anyway, that one is cheap enough that there isn't much room for disappointment
[19:47:43] <boru> According to the manual, removing the stand involves either pulling the stand out, or unscrewing two screws at the base, depending on the model.
[19:48:06] <boru> Doesn't seem like much work, and definitely doesn't involve dismantling the monitor housing.
[19:48:42] <Runaway1956> Let me look at that again - I read the complaints, and took a quick look at mine, I'll look again
[19:49:07] <boru> Aye, might be worth it, even if you just get another desk stand to replace the stock one.
[19:49:19] <boru> Gives you a few more options.
[19:51:03] <Runaway1956> UGH! I wiggled and wobbled, used most all my strength, and I did pull the stand out of it's bayonet socket
[19:51:13] <Runaway1956> The ears are broken now, LOL!
[19:51:24] <boru> Sound. You're all set, so.
[19:51:48] <Runaway1956> So, maybe now, I look at clamp on arms, see what I find
[19:52:11] <boru> Aye, or a desk stand, if you're set on one of those.
[19:53:19] <Runaway1956> Well, I'm ahead now for your insistence that I can remove the stands - I has more options
[19:53:52] <boru> Apologies if my insistence came across a bit thorny.
[19:54:35] <Runaway1956> Oh no - I had my mind made up what was what, and you prompted me to take a second look - it's all good!
[19:55:11] <Runaway1956> The reviews I read were not completely accurate, and I was wrong as a result
[19:55:55] <boru> At first glance, you wouldn't think the stand just pulls out, so no bother.
[19:56:12] <boru> It's not obvious from what I can see in the images.
[19:56:28] <chromas> Now you must write a review with real removal instructions to add to the confusion
[19:56:49] <boru> If it were permanent, I'd probably have just sawn it off.
[19:57:00] <Runaway1956> Well, as I said, the ears that lock the bayonet in place are broken now - so I don't think destroying the locking ears is "good advice"
[19:57:21] <Runaway1956> And, TBH, the sawing off passed through my mind.
[19:59:08] <chromas> look at it again again; maybe there was a secret screw
[19:59:21] <chromas> is that a Windows logo on the back of the monitor?
[19:59:26] <Runaway1956> Nope, no scres in the mount
[19:59:40] <Runaway1956> s /sres/screws/
[20:06:53] <Runaway1956> https://www.amazon.com
[20:07:03] <Runaway1956> Whatcha think of that, boru?
[20:08:42] <Runaway1956> Wait - pneumatic spring? I gotta air it up to make it work? LMAO @ that idea
[20:09:47] <chromas> There's a little squeeze bulb like AIr Jordans
[20:10:24] <Runaway1956> Like Air Jordans - so I have to import some air from Jordan?
[20:11:59] <chromas> oh you're right; it was Rebook, not Nike
[20:12:59] <chromas> http://www.coolthings.com
[20:13:37] * chromas can't speel
[20:24:27] <Runaway1956> The more you learn, the more questions you learn to ask, lol
[20:24:54] <Runaway1956> Clamp ons probably won't work well for me, but grommet installation looks good
[20:25:28] <Runaway1956> Dest sits right up against the wall, limiting adjustability of a clamp on
[20:26:04] <Runaway1956> but I can drill a 3/8 hole 3" from rear edge of desk and get full functionality
[20:26:52] <Runaway1956> It's not like I would be damaging a valuable desk - it was a cheapo when it was new
[20:29:56] <boru> I'd make two comments; get ones with internal cable routing, and only one base per arm.
[20:31:06] <Runaway1956> One base per arm? Not sure I understand that - one mount at the end of the arm?
[20:31:24] <boru> I mean not having two arms on one base.
[20:31:31] <boru> One base, one arm.
[20:32:07] <Runaway1956> Ahhhh, so you don't recommend dual monitor mounts such as this? https://www.amazon.com
[20:32:08] <boru> I use these at work: https://www.amazon.de
[20:32:12] <systemd> ^ 03Invision PC monitor arms: Amazon.de: Computer & Accessories
[20:32:55] <boru> Try to lean towards arms that are spec'd for bigger monitors as they're more stable.
[20:33:36] <Runaway1956> That sounds wise - I've already seen reviews claiming that the mount doesn't support the advertised weight
[20:34:22] <boru> This style are also surprisingly stable, but a bit less adjustable: https://www.amazon.de
[20:34:26] <systemd> ^ 03Huanuo: Amazon.de: Computer & Accessories
[20:34:47] <boru> The former style are better for me because my desk is ~4 feet deep.
[20:35:14] <boru> But for a shallow desk, those pole-with-arms are pretty solid. Again, just look for models that are spec'd for heavy duty.
[20:36:50] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Nonverbal Social Interactions – Even With Unfriendly Avatars – Boost Cooperation - https://sylnt.us - \o/-give-me-some-money-please
[20:41:26] <Runaway1956> https://www.amazon.com
[20:41:27] <systemd> ^ 03Amazon.com
[20:42:56] <boru> Are you looking for a dual head stand?
[20:43:11] <Runaway1956> Yeah, I have dual monitors
[20:43:22] <boru> Then trust me when I say to get two arms.
[20:43:35] <Runaway1956> That ERGear claims to support 20 pounds each
[20:46:09] <boru> Aye, most of these steel alloy mounts will carry that: https://www.amazon.de
[20:46:12] <systemd> ^ 03BONTEC Monitor Bracket 2 Monitors for 13-27 Inch Flat & Curved Screen, Monitor Table Mount, Height Adjustable, Tilt, Swivel, Rotation, 10 kg per Arm, VESA 75 x 75 / 100 x 100, Black: Amazon.de: Computer & Accessories
[20:46:19] <boru> (If you wanted a single mount with two arms)
[20:46:43] <boru> Two of these would be my recommendation: https://www.amazon.de
[20:46:46] <systemd> ^ 03Invision PC monitor arms: Amazon.de: Computer & Accessories
[20:46:47] <boru> I'd say you'll have them for life.
[20:47:05] <boru> VESA mounts aren't going anywhere.
[20:51:16] <boru> If you want something like a stand, but will be against the back of the desk, I think you won't get much more solid than something like this: https://www.amazon.de
[20:51:20] <systemd> ^ 03RICOO Monitor Stand Monitor Stand Screen Table Mount Universal for 17-32 Inch Tilting Swivel Desk Monitor Holder VESA 75x75 100x100: Amazon.de: Computer & Accessories
[20:51:52] <boru> I'll stop spamming the channel now.
[20:52:08] <chromas> ooh, localized
[20:52:17] <chromas> They have a "voucher" checkbox instead of a "coupon" one
[20:52:35] <Runaway1956> not spam at all, IMO - you've helped me a lot here
[20:52:52] <chromas> "dispatched" instead of "shipped"
[21:00:26] <boru> Looks like the comet C/2021 A1 (Leonard) may be visible with the naked eye around the 12th: https://theskylive.com
[21:00:27] <systemd> ^ 03Comet Leonard (C/2021 A1) | TheSkyLive.com
[21:18:25] <Bytram> Does it have pointy ears like Leonard Nimoy?
[21:29:45] <chromas> No but it is cold and lifeless
[22:04:44] <FatPhil> https://www.nytimes.com
[22:04:44] <systemd> ^ 03nytimes.com
[22:05:35] <FatPhil> https://cacm.acm.org
[22:05:36] <systemd> ^ 03Those Cute Cats Online? They Help Spread Misinformation.
[22:06:05] <FatPhil> CACM, eh? That link could be a sub, I guess...
[22:09:46] <chromas> I'm thankful for those red lines so I know to dislike those screenshots
[22:12:01] <FatPhil> What red lines?
[22:12:10] <FatPhil> You don't think I read things I forward, do you!?!?!?
[22:12:18] <chromas> https://static01.nyt.com
[22:12:28] <FatPhil> I don't even know what the URLs are until after I forward them!
[22:12:29] <chromas> No. Just like I don't read subs when I post them on the site :D
[22:15:32] <chromas> Pretty ingenious idea really. Animals get clicks, but instead of posting some cats, write up an article about other sites posting casts for clicks
[23:26:14] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Color-Changing Magnifying Glass Gives Clear View of Infrared Light - https://sylnt.us - a-little-late-for-the-JWST
[23:30:17] <Bytram> A very sad tale with an uplifting ending: https://www.cnn.com
[23:30:18] <systemd> ^ 03The rescue of Parwana: 9-year-old sold into child marriage in Afghanistan is taken to safety
[23:33:35] <Bytram> (I'm guessing there's ~30 scripts(!) on that page, but only need cnn.com enabled in NoScript)
[23:37:39] <kyonko2> i told my mom exactly how the taliban aren't extinct and she doesn't get it
[23:38:09] <kyonko2> thats the problem with creationists, biology only requires you to survive to reproductive age
[23:38:31] <kyonko2> but they made up the term over the past 20 years of now over war, "military aged males"
[23:39:26] <kyonko2> so there was no orbital or aerial surveillance of the taliban planting ied's in the hard afghan soil?
[23:40:11] <kyonko2> even in my life time the late 1990's to 9-11 feel like a legend
[23:41:23] <kyonko2> FatPhil: those hidden url's are a problem since the mid 2000's
[23:55:07] <kyonko2> https://www.linux.org
[23:55:08] <systemd> ^ 03Downloading & Running Gnu Icecat Browser Issues
[23:56:02] <kyonko2> its called "learned helplessness"