#soylent | Logs for 2021-04-28

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[00:00:24] <bacterium> a more dramatic version of this would be volunteering to suicide hotline and then feeding a script that encourages suicide, in an attempt to detect the difference of proportions
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[00:01:04] <Guest44566> Why would the webclient say i cannot connect to teh remote server?
[00:01:11] <bacterium> one makes it all ok in the end by sending condolescing postcards to surviving relatives
[00:01:33] Guest44566 is now known as Sulla
[00:02:23] <Sulla> Tried multiple browsers
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[01:08:20] <c0lo> I found https://soylentnews.org quite interesting, maybe the eds can consider it for the front page
[01:08:23] <systemd> ^ 03The Medications That Change Who We are: SoylentNews Submission
[01:12:35] <AzumaHazuki> pssh, i submitted it, so not likely. it's STEM, not clickbaity enough, and not guaranteed to make lots of loud, noisy discussion
[01:57:08] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Google Promised its Contact Tracing App was Completely Private--But It Wasn’t - https://sylnt.us - google-exposing-privates
[01:57:36] <Sulla> Interesting article on drug effects. Good reason to stay away from anything you don't actually need
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[02:09:51] <c0lo> bacterium++ for the idea of A/B testing on a suicide line. For improving the performance of the system, of course
[02:09:51] <Bender> karma - bacterium: 1
[02:24:36] <c0lo> https://www.businessinsider.com.au
[02:24:38] <systemd> ^ 03New York Post reporter resigns saying she was 'ordered' to write 'incorrect' story on Kamala Harris' book at a migrant shelter
[04:25:59] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - FCC Approves Starlink Orbit Modifications Over Competitors' Objections, and More - https://sylnt.us - sour-grapes?
[04:46:01] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki: I found it interesting, but am struggling with how to -- intelligently -- chop it down for fair use. I can follow the words, have a fair understand of basic chemistry, but it's too much of a stretch for me. Could you manually resubmit it, shrunk down to 350-400 words?
[04:58:37] <c0lo> bytram, try this one, no pharmacology involved https://soylentnews.org
[04:58:41] <systemd> ^ 03The Medications That Change Who We are: SoylentNews Submission
[05:02:41] <Bytram> saw that, too, will take another look at it -- deep in something already atm
[05:02:46] <Bytram> tx!
[05:03:57] <c0lo> Summary: statins - use for lowering the cholesterol, may make you cranky or suicidal. Requip, symptomatic Parkinson treatment, may make you a gambler or sex addict. Anti-obesity Duromine and sedatives lower inhibitions, may lead to murder
[05:08:47] <c0lo> (beer, may increase the size of your belly)
[05:19:26] <Bytram> "To mark the end of a turbulent year, we are bringing back some of our favourite stories " original story was dated 2020-01-08
[05:21:07] <c0lo> So? I saw stories based on FA years ago.
[05:28:57] <c0lo> bytram, pick one https://www.google.com
[05:28:58] <systemd> ^ 03pfizer covid pill - Google Search
[05:29:29] <c0lo> (my search favors Oz and UK sources)
[05:31:07] <Bytram> Dunno about you but I should be sound asleep right now, and as soon as I can push out one more story that is exactly where I intend to be!
[05:31:28] <c0lo> Ok.
[05:31:37] <c0lo> =submit https://greekreporter.com
[05:31:40] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Pfizer Covid-19 Pill: Race Against Time for the Antiviral Cure" (26p) -> https://soylentnews.org
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[05:48:35] <Bytram> that's it for me. Have a great night everybody!
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[06:35:19] <AzumaHazuki> Sulla, it may surprise you how much i distrust many medicines despite working in a pharmacy
[06:35:42] <AzumaHazuki> the entire class of antipsychotics scares the merciless habanaro shits out of me for example
[06:35:57] <FatPhil> you could replace "despite" with "because"
[06:36:07] <FatPhil> the more you know ...
[06:37:12] <AzumaHazuki> they have their place, but i have heard some awful things about how they're used. some nurse referred to Seroquel (quetiapine) as "quiet-a-pine" in earshot of me once
[06:37:28] <AzumaHazuki> with stated intention of using it to get an elderly patient to shut up. those meds are...dangerous in the elderly
[06:38:02] <AzumaHazuki> haloperidol (Haldol) gets given out like candy on stroke/neuro wards, and those are some of the LAST patients I would ever personally use that on
[06:39:28] <AzumaHazuki> then there's the SSRIs, whose mechanism of action we don't TRULY understand yet (and I sub'd a few stories about how they may actually be working, and it has sod-all to do with serotonin), not to mention their long-term effects
[06:39:57] <AzumaHazuki> benzodiazepines pose a known dementia risk with longterm use, most NSAIDs can cause both abnormal bleeding *and* cardiovascular issues, etc etc
[06:41:48] <Sulla> I would assume you woudl distrust them more because you work in a pharmacy
[06:42:24] <AzumaHazuki> i seem to be one of the only techs who does. most of my coworkers don't seem to know much about actual pharmacology...and it occurs to me to keep quiet about what i DO know
[06:42:44] <Sulla> That is very sad
[06:42:45] <AzumaHazuki> last thing i need to do is get pharmacists worried i'm some kind of threat to their position (How? poor girls don't go to pharmacy school)
[06:43:09] <Sulla> In general most of the people who go to pharmacy school are pretty failure
[06:44:02] <Sulla> Best friend graduated top of his class a few years back and has been training interns. His background was chemistry so the whole thing was easy for him. But for the vast majority they lack the understanding of how or why the drugs work the way they do, just that they are supposed to be used for X purpose
[06:44:14] <AzumaHazuki> i can't believe that...there are national standards to pass, rigorous ones. Passing the NAPLEX and doing continuing ed means at very least all pharmacists are minimally competent not to kill someone
[06:44:59] <FatPhil> competent enough to not kill people sounds like a good qualifier for most professions
[06:45:09] <FatPhil> except excecutioner, of course
[06:45:20] <AzumaHazuki> yes. this one is so, so, so important though. i'm finding it's weirdly similar to IT except way higher stakes
[06:45:54] <Sulla> I'd like to think that. But ive been hearing too many horror stories. Friend's pharmacy that my wife also works at fires a lot of doctors from sending prescriptions over to them due to liability. The issue is that there is gonna be some pharmacy that will fill them
[06:45:56] <FatPhil> and one of the things i love is how the fields of IT and medicine dovetail - maximise the potential for fuckups!
[06:46:10] * AzumaHazuki wishes she hadn't burnt out and ended up on medical leave, is going to be out till 3 June >< Probably will get harassed out of the job too
[06:46:33] <AzumaHazuki> and the worst possible timing...we've lost 5 (!) people in the space of 2 weeks. 3 retirements, one disability, and one probationary who just...stopped showing up
[06:47:03] <Sulla> Depending on your state can be worth way more to not work right now, so those who want to have to pull a much worse load
[06:47:38] <AzumaHazuki> those idiots dropped me into the IV room 4 nights in a row in the worst demand I've ever seen as basically a newbie, and the pharmacists were awful
[06:47:51] <Sulla> lame
[06:48:02] <AzumaHazuki> the last shift i worked, they flat neglected several important meds that we techs jumped on and made as soon as the orders came through
[06:48:20] <AzumaHazuki> a sedative for an ICU patient and TWO bags of IV blood thinner for someone on one of the cardiac units
[06:48:43] <AzumaHazuki> we kept asking them to please check/confirm so we could label and send them. they sat there for over an hour each. and guess who had to field all the panicked phone calls?
[06:48:45] <Sulla> Sounds like hell. I dont know how someone could do that when they know its important
[06:49:09] <AzumaHazuki> the night shift pharmacists are dysfunctional as hell. they will outright trashtalk one another behind their backs (and to MY face, Jesus!)
[06:49:15] <Sulla> But then again i guess thats why i end up working 10 or 12 hour days salary
[06:49:18] <Sulla> thats awful
[06:49:35] <Sulla> brings the whole moral down and spreads like a plague
[06:49:49] <AzumaHazuki> one outright said another is a "lunatic" to me. said lunatic correctly pointed out that the first one (and his partner, who hs a stare i can only call "crocodilian") are constantly fucking around on their tablets
[06:50:33] <FatPhil> as long as they're not fucking about with the tablets
[06:50:37] <Sulla> Are they the kind of workers where its "i guess its better than nothing" or "it would be easier if they were gone"
[06:50:41] <AzumaHazuki> and said "lunatic" also, as the FIRST CONVERSATION SHE EVER HAD WITH ME HOLY FUCK, was constantly dumping on management, telling me my manager's derogatory nickname he got for sucking at IV making and how he got "kicked upstairs" because he wasn't good in the pharmacy but had a PharmD
[06:50:52] <boru> Well, haven't seen Sulla for a while.
[06:51:15] <Sulla> Work and home maint
[06:51:16] <AzumaHazuki> i've had a few days off thanks to this medical leave and have been allowing myself to admit just how dysfunctional and toxic it is in there
[06:51:34] <Sulla> Medical leave?
[06:51:47] <AzumaHazuki> burnt out really bad. out till 3 June. Need to see doctors for body and mind both
[06:52:23] <AzumaHazuki> this is a warning, a big one, that i can't take on the entire world alone and need to ask for help when things get to be too much
[06:52:30] <FatPhil> just pop some druuugs, and you'll be back on the conveyerbelt soon enough!
[06:52:33] <Sulla> Good to take time for yourself to recoup though
[06:52:36] <Sulla> BENZOS
[06:52:50] <FatPhil> Fuck Amazon
[06:53:01] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, at this rate i will likely end up on low-dose sertraline (Zoloft) for a while. it seems to be the most benign SSRI and is specifically indicated for PTSD
[06:53:36] <AzumaHazuki> i got a couple of completely bullshit writeups and the union person is so disgusted with them she actually outright said she was going to grievance them without me even thinking to ask
[06:53:49] <Sulla> Good
[06:53:55] <FatPhil> I hope that works out
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[06:54:14] <AzumaHazuki> if my manager had the brains Madokami gave a treestump he'd be doing everything in his power to smooth all this out. he needs people like me
[06:54:17] <FatPhil> of course, it is going to heighten tensions too
[06:54:59] <Sulla> That's management though. They always assume a good worker will just keep on working and ignore any issues they might have
[06:55:04] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, i know. i am prepared to be targeted and essentially harassed out of this job "by the book." At which point I will get the hospital's accredition agency AND the NYS DoH down on that pharmacy like a ton of rectangular buildin'-things
[06:55:15] <AzumaHazuki> what i witnessed that last shift was neglect that put patients in danger of life and limb
[06:55:29] <FatPhil> keeping a diary?
[06:55:36] <AzumaHazuki> oh-hooooo yes
[06:55:40] <FatPhil> good
[06:56:01] <AzumaHazuki> wise men fear three things: a night without a moon, a ship on the sea in a storm, and the anger of a gentle (wo)man.
[06:56:53] <AzumaHazuki> the union's already filed official reports about this and is shoring up the "non-retaliation clause" defense, which will throw a nice monkey wrench into whatever shenans these assholes are planning
[06:57:24] <Sulla> In general I'm not a fan of unions, but when they are needed they ARE needed
[06:57:32] <Sulla> like car insurance
[06:58:40] <AzumaHazuki> they are needed almost everywhere, don't kid yourself
[06:59:08] <AzumaHazuki> you're "not a fan of unions" because 1) you don't remember what it was like without them and 2) anti-union propaganda highlights specific abuses of the concept (police unions) to turn you against the entire class
[06:59:19] <FatPhil> They're like democracy. The only things worse than them are the absense of them.
[06:59:23] <AzumaHazuki> bingo
[06:59:33] <Sulla> that was the point i was trying to make
[06:59:34] <AzumaHazuki> if thuggery is human nature i want some thugs on my side
[07:00:16] <Sulla> our fire union has torpedo'd any increases in fire salaries because they keep asking for 10%, when the arbitrator they chose will go with either option and not allow negotating a middle
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[07:00:40] <Sulla> So the reps keep getting pay increases to convince them to bargain better
[07:00:48] <Sulla> and the actual fireworkers get shafted
[07:01:27] <AzumaHazuki> okay, and beware the fallacy of composition
[07:01:28] <FatPhil> I did some workshadowing while at uni at a large company right at the time there was a medium-sized union dispute. Access to everything, both the meetings with the union and the meetings of just the managers afterwards. It was 5-dimensional hyperchess being played. The workers' rights were irrelevant.
[07:01:49] <AzumaHazuki> still would rather have the union than not
[07:02:24] <AzumaHazuki> if i can get this apartment i've been looking at locked in tomorrow i'm safe no matter what happens. mother's coming from NYC and we're splitting rent, but it's way cheaper including utils than she currently pays alone now
[07:02:26] <FatPhil> indeed.
[07:03:19] <AzumaHazuki> this will be a huge existential burden off me. knowing i'm safe no matter what (barring, you know, civil war and whatnot) i can calm way down
[07:04:04] <Sulla> Yeah
[07:04:11] <FatPhil> OK, the unions were only playing 4-dimensional uberchess, with workers' rights being irrelevant. The management won the game by letting the union "win" that dispute. Fascinating stuff. Scary.
[07:04:43] <AzumaHazuki> management is not and never will be the worker's friend. "human resources" makes me think "soylent green"
[07:05:21] <AzumaHazuki> this is the fundamental spiritual killer in the way we do capitalism: treating labor, workers, PEOPLE, as means to an end when people are the end for which we pursue economic activity
[07:05:36] <FatPhil> You know how shouty I get when I see illogic? One particular meeting made me utterly mad. I was not allowed to say anything. I literally heard the union guys say "red is green" at one point.
[07:06:00] <Sulla> As far as i can tell HR finds ways to punish employes to justify their continued existance
[07:06:11] <AzumaHazuki> it may be the union's main purpose is to frazzle management to the point they (management) are too brainfried to do really horrible things
[07:06:36] <FatPhil> Never read Marx in that case, he'll wind you up good and proper.
[07:06:46] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - New Measurement of Lead Nucleus Suggests Neutron Stars are Larger than Previously Predicted - https://sylnt.us - thick-skinned
[07:07:26] <AzumaHazuki> Marx was correct about most of the problems, but incorrect about the solutions. he's a natural-born critic, meaning, look to him for descriptions of the issues but for the love of Polly-O string cheese do NOT ask him to solve them
[07:07:30] <FatPhil> As I said - management "won" that dispute by letting the unions "win". There are many layers...
[07:07:46] <FatPhil> totally. Like Freud in his field.
[07:08:38] <AzumaHazuki> i suspect that the coming era of automation is going to cause massive widespread economic misery early on. the idea that we'll have leisurely lives would ONLY hold if we can all access the benefits
[07:08:58] <AzumaHazuki> knowing how things are, all that will happen is the benefits of automation will trickle up and millions of already poor people will be out of work
[07:09:00] <FatPhil> =yt humans need not apply
[07:09:01] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Humans Need Not Apply (15:01; 13,899,228 views; 👍302,800 👎6,196)
[07:09:33] <AzumaHazuki> the breakthrough will likely be someone poor but clever pulling off a myriad of hacks, essentially Bayesian-poisoning the automation chain
[07:09:46] <FatPhil> Don't worry, we'll all be watched over by machines of loving grace.
[07:09:57] <AzumaHazuki> ....rockman x and zero?
[07:10:29] <AzumaHazuki> i'd prefer Alia, Layer, Marino, Cinnamon etc. of course (not Iris because hoooooly crap did someone say yandere?)
[07:11:26] <Sulla> Okay serious question. You're the braintrust so I'm sure you know
[07:12:28] <Sulla> ive got a pcb for a modern keyboard thats all scrunched up and modern. I want to use more wider keys off of a old hp terminal keyboard. To this end i'm goign to attach the switches to a custom board, and then wire them to the pcb
[07:12:34] <Sulla> what gauge wire would i use to go between them
[07:12:54] <Sulla> I need to know so i can order it on amazon and go to sleep
[07:15:36] <AzumaHazuki> i am really not sure
[07:16:33] <boru> What sort of switches are we talking about?
[07:16:51] <boru> Surface mount? Through-hole? Are they plate mounted or PCB mounted?
[07:16:56] <Sulla> Kalih box navy
[07:17:13] <Sulla> I had some of that real thick railroading cardboard, which is more like mdf
[07:17:26] <Sulla> I organized it all and drilled the holes so they will mount to it
[07:17:33] <boru> If you're going through the trouble of a custom board, why not just lay it out for these switches and desolder them?
[07:17:42] <Sulla> then i'll run wires from the connectors down to the pcb
[07:17:53] <Sulla> because the keycaps from the hp terminal keyboard are too small
[07:18:06] <boru> Sure, but you can have new caps made.
[07:18:08] <Sulla> the hp keyboard was a rubber dome so completely unusable, but the caps are 1337 af
[07:18:26] <boru> Or use those caps with the other switches, just space them out more for these caps
[07:18:33] <boru> On the custom board.
[07:18:36] <Sulla> Gonna have a converter from cherry mx to the box under the hp one
[07:18:42] <Sulla> so the caps will connect fine
[07:18:53] <Sulla> but the old hp boards keys run like 1in wider
[07:19:01] <boru> I think YMMV with this project.
[07:19:19] <Sulla> so they wont fit on any modern keyboard, unless i were to cut stuff like the spacebar and make it skinner
[07:19:38] <Sulla> YMMV?
[07:19:44] <boru> Your mileage my vary.
[07:19:48] <Sulla> Ah
[07:19:55] <boru> May vary, even.
[07:20:02] <FatPhil> fuck me, fakefuck69 is teh derp
[07:20:07] <Sulla> I'm getting close
[07:20:19] <boru> What sort of key matrix is it using?
[07:20:26] <Sulla> dunno what that even means
[07:20:30] <Sulla> im a noob to this
[07:20:34] <FatPhil> Reading the honey story, and basically everything he said is either wrong or not-even-wrong
[07:21:14] <boru> Hmm. Well, depending on how the keys are wired up, you may have to connect them differently. I doubt the cables will add enough capacitance to the traces to be a problem.
[07:21:40] <boru> But that will depend on what the switching speed of the pins on the microcontroller inside are.
[07:21:46] <Sulla> So i'm going to use the pcb out of a hotswappable keyboard. the kalih boxes would just fit in it normally and work fine
[07:22:03] <Sulla> but what i'll be doign to stretch out the keys more, is making a board that will float above it
[07:22:07] <Sulla> then wiring from one to the other
[07:22:19] <Sulla> essentially just "stretching" out the connecter on the bottom of the switches
[07:22:42] <Sulla> I'll have a full disassembly pic of it up in the journal tomorrow
[07:23:23] <c0lo> =submit https://www.bbc.com
[07:23:26] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Cyber-attack Hackers Threaten to Share US Police Informant Data" (16p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[07:25:13] <c0lo> Ewwww, shit https://www.fox29.com
[07:25:14] <systemd> ^ 0329-year-old woman killed after man who jumped off building landed on top of her
[07:25:43] <Sulla> What kind of charges would that lead to
[07:25:53] <AzumaHazuki> i saw that earlier. how awful. this is another reason that if, Law of Cycles forbid i ever commit suicide, it's going to be chemical and indoors
[07:26:34] <FatPhil> depends on the state. "unintentional murder" seems to be a thing in some states, for example.
[07:26:48] <Sulla> Manslaughter yeah
[07:26:56] <Sulla> i think suicide can be prosecuted in some states as well
[07:27:01] <chromas> Sulla: building your own keyboard with QMK shouldn't be too hard if you've got a spare arduino or whatever sitting around. Then you can wire up whatever switches you want and make them be any keys
[07:27:10] <AzumaHazuki> and how will they charge a dead man? do they have a spirit medium on the court staff?
[07:27:24] <FatPhil> chauvin's unintentional murder charges were separate from this manslaughter charge
[07:27:25] <chromas> charge next of kin
[07:27:40] <Sulla> dunno how one charges a dead person for suicide,
[07:27:46] <Sulla> i assume you just charge the one sthat fail at it
[07:27:50] <FatPhil> what makes you think he's dead?
[07:27:57] <FatPhil> headline implies the opposite
[07:28:01] <AzumaHazuki> and this makes them less miserable and suicidal how precisely...?
[07:28:05] <FatPhil> not read the story
[07:28:23] <Sulla> yeah, so you chrage him for attempted suicide to make sure he does it right next time i guess
[07:28:28] <Sulla> gg legal system
[07:28:29] <chromas> death penalty!
[07:28:43] <FatPhil> just watch a few more episodes of /ow! my balls/ to cheer yourself up.
[07:28:54] <chromas> is death a penalty though? like you go sit in a box for five minutes then come back to life?
[07:29:22] <chromas> must be what jesus was doing
[07:29:34] <c0lo> suicide illegal, punishable by death penalty.
[07:29:45] <FatPhil> Jesus was just doing a time out in the naughty box?
[07:30:06] <AzumaHazuki> pssh, he just had a bad weekend is all. some sacrifice
[07:30:07] <Sulla> He always seemed like a good guy to me, tellin people to pay their taxes and stuff
[07:30:18] <c0lo> =submit https://www.rfa.org
[07:30:21] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Chinese Smart TV-Maker Accused of Spying on Owners&#x27; Other Devices" (7p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[07:30:34] <Sulla> if he needs to make some money with some "miracles" so he can pay the state, more power to him
[07:31:27] <c0lo> Nestle should move its instant coffee production in CA https://www.theguardian.com
[07:31:28] <systemd> ^ 03Drought-hit California moves to halt Nestlé from taking millions of gallons of water
[07:32:11] <Sulla> bottled water companies really like production in drought areas
[07:32:25] <Sulla> create your own demand
[07:33:14] <chromas> California finally doing something right. Fuck Nestlé
[07:34:31] * AzumaHazuki has this suspicion southerners think jesus can turn water into bathtub gin with an alarmingly high methanol content
[07:34:38] <chromas> I bet their water's probably the only thing in Cali to not have a Prop 65 warning
[07:35:22] <chromas> Why would Jesus do that when Cletus is already on the case?
[07:40:35] <c0lo> Who's Cletus? If you want something to be done, do it yourself
[07:41:09] <AzumaHazuki> some folks'll never eat a skunk but then again, some folks'll, like Cletuuuuussss, the slack-jawed yokeeeeel
[07:42:52] <c0lo> The totally censored the burning man. Again. Meh, less work for firemen, I guess https://edition.cnn.com
[07:42:55] <systemd> ^ 03Burning Man festival cancels in-person event again because of Covid-19
[07:43:10] <chromas> where will the hippies go?
[07:43:11] <c0lo> Or maybe they moved it over Zoom.
[07:44:21] <chromas> ooh, they could get enviro-friendly by digitally burning, man
[07:45:58] <c0lo> Or maybe they'll resort on self-immolation over zoom, promoting it into burning men.
[07:47:17] <c0lo> Is someone running a comparative study on how long different ethnicities last with a police knee on their neck? https://www.ktvu.com
[07:47:18] <systemd> ^ 03Body cam video shows Alameda officer kneeling on Mario Gonzalez before death
[07:47:31] <AzumaHazuki> oooh, just had a nice idea: instant pot pasta primavera in a light cream/garlic sauce. am getting a liiiittle sick of rice and beans after 3 nights so that may be a nice change
[07:47:42] <c0lo> (the Mexican took 5 mins to die)
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[07:48:46] <Sulla> man this VEARS data is really interesting
[07:48:58] <Sulla> so much for sleeping
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[07:58:24] <c0lo> =submit https://spacenews.com
[07:58:25] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03China, Russia Open Moon Base Project to International Partners, Early Details Emerge - SpaceNews" (17p) -> https://soylentnews.org
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[07:59:07] <AzumaHazuki> but do they like mmmmbananas? on the MEEEEEWWWWWWN, BEEEYIIIIIIITCH
[08:00:10] <Sulla> Crashed excel, this gonna be fun
[08:00:14] <AzumaHazuki> (I ask purely in the spirit of scientific inquiry)
[08:00:48] <c0lo> I know! Grant Nestle a license to bottle water on the Moon, those Chinese will run dry in no time.
[08:02:26] <c0lo> China's from behind this time around https://www.newsweek.com
[08:02:27] <systemd> ^ 03China backs Russia after Putin warns West they'll regret crossing "red line"
[08:02:46] <AzumaHazuki> raise your hand if you saw this coming!
[08:02:47] <chromas> Sulla: how are your sql skillz? might be a better way to Access that data
[08:03:17] <Sulla> Wont work without too much data manipulation
[08:03:51] <Sulla> While there is some standardization across the symptoms there isn't enough to query it reliably
[08:04:03] <Sulla> I just gotta not write bad functions
[08:04:39] <chromas> well just pick one and stick to it
[08:05:16] <Sulla> It's not that much data, 75k rows
[08:05:37] <AzumaHazuki> excel is not a database @_@
[08:05:49] * chromas remembers when Quattro could do 1 million rows while excel was still stuck at 32k or so
[08:06:17] <c0lo> Annalena Baerbock, the environmentalist Greens' candidate for [German] chancellorship... cited China's investment in infrastructure and energy grids through Central Asia to Europe as "brutal power politics." https://www.voanews.com
[08:06:18] <systemd> ^ 03VOA
[08:06:20] <Sulla> excel is a shit, but when im grabbing data off of csv files i dont wanna spent doo much time on it
[08:06:39] <c0lo> Is "brutal" AC or DC?
[08:06:53] <chromas> both!
[08:06:56] <chromas> AC⚡DC
[08:07:40] <c0lo> Sulla, "i dont wanna spent doo much time on it"... then don't use Excel.
[08:07:49] <AzumaHazuki> how is it brutal power politics? it's just smart
[08:08:06] <AzumaHazuki> energy and water are going to drive the future. i kept warning people china plays the long game and getting made fun of for it...
[08:08:21] <Sulla> Only gonna take me like a half hour to brute force it in excel
[08:08:33] <c0lo> akka dakka aren't brutal, chromas
[08:09:58] <chromas> Assuming you can keep excel from crashing
[08:10:57] <Sulla> Eh all you gotta do is repaste the lookups as values then move on to next column
[08:11:11] <c0lo> Meh, crashing doesn't take *that* long.
[08:11:28] <Sulla> gg vaers
[08:11:56] <Sulla> recovered: N, symptoms: bunch of heart shit, had heart attack, symptoms resolved and they went home, no further issues
[08:12:10] <Sulla> recovered: y, symptoms: heart attack day after vaccine, died
[08:12:44] <Sulla> this is on a sheet i didn't even do anythign to, so not like i fialed and messed up a line
[08:12:52] <AzumaHazuki> now the question here is, is the correlation a causation? remember covid causes multi-organ problems, ACE2 is constitutively expressed in the lungs and kidneys, and all the organs work together
[08:13:14] <Sulla> I think the vast majority of issues will be similar to the normal rate of things occuring
[08:13:18] <AzumaHazuki> the heart and lungs are also intimately connected. pulmonry hypertension goes with heart failure for example
[08:13:30] <c0lo> Sulla, why spend 30mins with manual operations when you can waste 2 days automating it. *And* including an email client into the tool.
[08:13:39] <Sulla> damn me btfo
[08:13:45] <AzumaHazuki> write an emacs mode for it :v
[08:20:33] <Sulla> According to VAERS for 2021, not accounting for cause. J&J at 154 deaths, So 154/7 million. Moderna at 1368 out of 33m. Pfizer at 1136 out of 36m
[08:21:13] <Sulla> Dunno how accurate pfizer and moderna totals are, hard to find a specific 2021# of doses, but its gotta be pretty close
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[08:22:51] <Sulla> Oh damn we better all freak out, its .002%, .004%, and .003%
[08:23:35] <AzumaHazuki> we're getting a lot of freakouts on SN and pointing this out to them gets them shrieking about how they're being oppressed and downmodded and how uNcIvIl and CeNsOrIoUs that is
[08:23:59] <AzumaHazuki> if you make a journal entry summarizing this data we can all link to it as a response
[08:24:34] <Sulla> I'll definitely consider it, but need to fill in some of the holes first
[08:24:48] <Sulla> i was hoping for more than a .001% differences so i had something to shit on people for for fun
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[08:25:15] <AzumaHazuki> eth can tell you about some sort of glass table you might like
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[08:25:37] <Sulla> i need to find the % vaers says they are underrepresenting symptoms as well, id rather bring it up than deal with responding to it
[08:26:17] <Sulla> a study done a decade ago done by the govt said it was like 40 something % off
[08:26:22] <Sulla> But, thats a decade ago
[08:26:33] <Sulla> and i imagine in a pandemic it would be better
[08:26:37] <FatPhil> this is good journal fodder1
[08:27:23] <FatPhil> AzumaHazuki++ please let me forget about Eth's table :/
[08:27:23] <Bender> karma - azumahazuki: 74
[08:27:36] <Subsentient> Dear god, I found a clone of me but with artistic talent. https://www.youtube.com
[08:27:38] <systemd> ^ 03Secret Formula
[08:27:42] <FatPhil> uh-oh - I just paid the dane-geld
[08:27:47] <AzumaHazuki> eth is such a piece of shit. i don't know what happened to him but he's not sane any longer
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[08:28:35] <Sulla> I am for more interested in the weird side effects, but i dont think this dataset will help me
[08:29:04] <Subsentient> AzumaHazuki: Yeah he's definitely gone down the old Swastika hole, it's pretty sad.
[08:33:57] <Sulla> 655 cases of bells palsey for all vax combined
[08:34:53] <AzumaHazuki> at the same time, this community has no standards and neither here nor on the forums is he being taken to task for it
[08:35:40] <AzumaHazuki> plus the utter hypocrisy of kickbanning me for pErSoNaL aTtAcKs because "this is the landing page and it scares newbies" but letting him shit pages-long diatribes about how jews are the source of all evil is...well, it's something. a thing.
[08:36:20] <c0lo> Personally, I learned to ignore eth. No filters needed. Just like ads.
[08:36:46] <AzumaHazuki> kinda not the point though?
[08:37:16] <AzumaHazuki> we're seeing 1) what rules we have are inadequate, 2) they're not enforced evenhandedly, and 3) when they are enforced it's entirely at arbitrary fiat
[08:39:32] <Sulla> So 2.5 million people died in the us in 2014 out of 328 million, so thats .0076% of the population died that year. Do i need to account for portions of a year? Kinda tired and thinkin slow
[08:39:44] <Sulla> looks like all of the vaccines are like half of background
[08:39:53] <Sulla> or am i viewing it wrong
[08:43:22] <c0lo> If you view the vaccines in Excel, definitely is something wrong.
[08:43:54] <FatPhil> Sulla: what numbers did you put in to get ".0076%" out?
[08:44:27] <c0lo> 2014/328M
[08:44:46] <FatPhil> here M = Mille = 1000, right?
[08:44:47] <Sulla> should have been 2.5m/328m
[08:45:09] <Sulla> 1,000,000
[08:45:32] <c0lo> Mega
[08:45:48] <boru> What is the significance of 328 metres?
[08:46:14] <AzumaHazuki> 1000ft i suspect, given 1ft = ~30cm
[08:46:28] <FatPhil> if you measure the deaths on 328 different metres, then the error bars shrink by sqrt(328)
[08:47:05] <c0lo> Sulla, if you use %, remember to multiply with a centa.
[08:47:43] <FatPhil> Bloody metric, too easy to get the decimal place in the wrong column.
[08:48:01] <FatPhil> said someone just yesterday (locust story)
[08:48:37] <c0lo> Meh, what's 3 zeroes between friends.
[08:49:22] <boru> Just measure things in barleycorns. The error margin easily covers a few orders of magnitude.
[08:49:48] <FatPhil> absolutely totally completely nothing, I'd say
[08:50:12] <boru> 3 barleycorns make an inch. Only the orientation was taken into account.
[08:50:22] <FatPhil> or "zero, zip, nada" in yankiesprache
[08:52:13] <c0lo> Misdirection, they'll invade through the Baltics https://www.dw.com
[08:52:15] <systemd> ^ 03Russia holds Black Sea drills amid Ukraine tensions
[08:52:24] <AzumaHazuki> now, Sulla, i have to warn you you're going to get a lot of frothy pushback from fellow "conservatives" about what you're doing here. you're taking a very left-wing (in their eyes) approach, and coming to the left-wing conclusion
[08:52:40] <AzumaHazuki> remember, we're post-truth now. conservative politics is almost entirely emotion driven and post-hoc
[08:53:11] <Sulla> man i live in oregon, more anti-vax hippies here than conservatives
[08:53:16] <Sulla> get to be everyones snemey all the time
[08:53:35] <AzumaHazuki> so don't be surprised if you get a lot of shit for this on SN i mean. on the other hand, maybe your personal pendulum will swing back a bit (finally)
[08:53:45] <Sulla> not likely
[08:54:04] <Sulla> i still hate the left for blocking early adoption of ivermectin with cnn propaganda
[08:54:25] <AzumaHazuki> ...uhhhh...
[08:54:50] <AzumaHazuki> okay, what is the mechanism of action for ivermectin in this case, and how are you sure it was the nebulous, spectral "the left" who "blocked ivermectin?"
[08:55:22] <AzumaHazuki> it's an antiparasitic. covid is a virus. there must be some sort of immunomodulatory side effect that produces good results, rather than its main MoA.
[08:55:34] <Sulla> ill have to look up those studies tomorrow, dont have the energy to go down another rabbithole
[08:56:02] <Sulla> i think the studies averaged 60-70% effective at reducing symptoms
[08:57:00] <AzumaHazuki> okay, not what i'm seeing. Yes, I know, WP isn't a primary source but they cite their sources here https://en.wikipedia.org
[08:57:02] <systemd> ^ 03Ivermectin - Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org )
[08:57:08] <AzumaHazuki> the doses involved are dangerout, toxic even
[08:57:32] <Sulla> ill open that link and read some more tomorrow about it
[08:57:55] <AzumaHazuki> will you change this hatred if the data support it?
[08:58:30] <AzumaHazuki> (PS: if the answer is yes on principle, you ARE a "leftist" by modern standards and the frothy RWNJs are already sharpening the pitchforks for you)
[08:59:16] <Sulla> man i got a laundry list that we have probably already been over before
[08:59:22] <c0lo> Time to get Sandra prepared https://spacenews.com
[08:59:23] <systemd> ^ 03Russia to select actress for Soyuz mission in May - SpaceNews
[08:59:34] <Sulla> but im so dull on any kind of discussion after being gone for what felt like so long
[08:59:51] <AzumaHazuki> but you're still willing to hate an entire nebulous, vague group of people over...ivermectin
[09:00:26] <Sulla> tbh i hate pretty much everyone and just want to be left alone to never interact with anyone outside my family
[09:00:28] <boru> From an outsiders perspective, that polarisation goes both ways over there.
[09:01:02] <AzumaHazuki> me too Sulla, but the world doesn't work like that and your political choices can do serious harm
[09:01:04] <boru> USA probably has the most polarised political system in the world. It is the very paragon of the horseshoe theory.
[09:01:23] <c0lo> left alone, right alone, why does it matter that much?
[09:01:28] <AzumaHazuki> the "right wing" in this country is NOT "live and let live," and if they tell you they are they are lying through their teeth and in the face of the evidence
[09:02:10] <AzumaHazuki> politicians lie, and they tell lots of lies hoping that one of them will work with each of their constituents. for you it's the idea of persnal liberty and responsibility. i like that one too. but the reality is, the right wing is for anything but and it shows in their actions and policies
[09:02:14] <boru> The problem is, so far as I can see it, is that you're either left or right over there.
[09:02:19] <Sulla> The right and left can never agree on that as the definitions each hold for live are contradictory
[09:02:30] <boru> If you agree with X, that is enough to put you in one camp.
[09:03:06] <AzumaHazuki> yet, Sulla, when the results of policies are viewed, the left (who are actually centrists by any civilized nation's scale) tend to come out more on the side of freedom.and yes, that's even with the worrying rise of conservative-like purity politics
[09:03:34] <AzumaHazuki> which side is pushing bills to allow medical workers to deny lifesaving treatment to queer people? not the "left"
[09:03:54] <boru> Coming from a civilised nation, your "leftists" are certainly not centrists.
[09:04:05] <boru> You're all right of centre.
[09:04:24] <AzumaHazuki> okay, fair point
[09:04:48] <boru> I think the left and right classification has lost all meaning, sadly.
[09:04:49] * AzumaHazuki can already hear Buzztard bending over, spreading his rancid asscheeks, and wet-farting out "who the fuck cares what anyone outside the US thinks?"
[09:05:18] <boru> Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I wouldn't begrudge TMB that.
[09:05:18] <AzumaHazuki> Sir Carrion-molester is in for a series of unpleasant geopolitical surprises soon, methinks...
[09:05:41] <AzumaHazuki> well, yes, but not all opinions are equal. their worth is measured by how well they correspond to observed reality
[09:07:02] <AzumaHazuki> that's another thing, we have a bunch of disingenuous bad-faith posters who think "free speech" means freedom from being told they're fucking morons and a guaranteed captive audience that agrees with them
[09:07:06] <Sulla> Its not something that can ever be agreed on. The US needs to disolve
[09:07:23] <AzumaHazuki> i agree. lincoln should have burnt the South to the ground
[09:09:30] <Sulla> I agree, we should kill everyone with mortgages for propping up the 1% that own the banks
[09:10:14] <c0lo> US is insoluble in non-polar solvents.
[09:10:32] <AzumaHazuki> Sulla, that is a non-sequitur
[09:10:57] <AzumaHazuki> and the time for burning the South is over 150 years past. it's much too late now. he insisted on keeping them in the Union and we're stuck with them
[09:11:21] * AzumaHazuki thinks it'd be fucking hilarious to let, for example, Texas secede, only for them to be immediately declared a hostile nation and annexed
[09:12:05] <Sulla> Or you have a divorce and each state goes their own way. People can move wherever they want depending on their personal desires
[09:12:46] <AzumaHazuki> right. definitely evacuate all, for example, the democrat voters out of these states
[09:13:30] <AzumaHazuki> i guaran-goddamn-tee you once that happens and the nutbars have their own place, they won't settle for peaceful coexistence. they can't. it's not in their worldview
[09:13:43] <FatPhil> who gets the nukes?
[09:14:05] <AzumaHazuki> they do if they piss the remainder of the US off enough :D
[09:15:46] <FatPhil> The problem is we have one idiotic tin-pot dictator leading the country. The solution is to break the US into 52 nations, so each can have their own tin-pot dictator, each with their own red buttons on their desk.
[09:15:55] <FatPhil> What could possibly go wrong!
[09:16:41] <AzumaHazuki> meh, just cut the states across red vs blue lines, let people migrate/exchange, and once everyone's set, see what happens
[09:17:03] <AzumaHazuki> (spoiler alert: the "red" states will dissolve into complete chaos surprisingly quickly)
[09:17:53] <FatPhil> I wouldn't put money on that, even though I know why you say it.
[09:18:18] <AzumaHazuki> oh, i would. many of those states only keep going thanks to taking in tax revenue sources from "blue" states
[09:18:25] <AzumaHazuki> most of the south is a staggering wreck
[09:18:51] <AzumaHazuki> and, whoa-hooo, nelly, would the farmers in red states ever be in trouble without all those delicious subsidies
[09:19:03] <Sulla> Then let the red states collapse. Thats their problem
[09:19:08] <FatPhil> infrastructural decay and collapse certainly a possibility. they might regress into amish-like simplicity - and be happy about that.
[09:19:37] <FatPhil> all that matters is whether it's stable, not whether it's good.
[09:19:38] <AzumaHazuki> more power to them in that case
[09:19:41] <Sulla> Alaska would happily give up all subsidies in exchange for getting half their state back from the fed
[09:20:39] <AzumaHazuki> time for a referendum then? or is that something only Commiefornia does?
[09:21:35] <FatPhil> Don't forget UK and Scotland - we love our referenda
[09:22:30] <Sulla> good lord its 2am, i havent been up this late in months. im out
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[09:23:39] * FatPhil giggles at https://soylentnews.org
[09:36:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Cable-Chewing Beavers Take Out Town’s Internet in "Uniquely Canadian" Outage - https://sylnt.us - little-biters
[09:51:49] <c0lo> =submit https://www.kitco.com
[09:51:52] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Russia Accelerates its De-dollarization Policy, Chooses to Settle Exports in Euro Over Dollar" (8p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[09:55:18] <FatPhil> soon, war ...
[09:57:54] <c0lo> Russia loses economical stamina as the time passes. Either wag the dog or won't happen soon.
[09:58:32] <c0lo> https://www.dw.com
[09:58:34] <systemd> ^ 03France and Germany back US on 21% minimum corporate tax proposal
[10:06:29] <c0lo> C'est chic from Slovenia https://www.pv-magazine.com
[10:06:31] <systemd> ^ 03pv magazine International
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[10:48:00] <FatPhil> is "PV magazine" a SFW resource?
[10:59:02] <FatPhil> out of modpoints, could someone +1 this if they think it's worth it: https://soylentnews.org
[10:59:03] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews Comments | University of Minnesota Banned from Contributing To Linux Kernel for Intentionally Inserting Bugs ( https://soylentnews.org )
[11:24:27] <c0lo> FatPhil, unless solar panels throw you in a rage, it is SFW.
[11:26:19] <FatPhil> but all PV is rape!
[11:29:40] <c0lo> Nah, ts cool. Not about photovoltaic vaginas, no.
[11:33:32] <c0lo> Next step? Nationalise Macca, KFC and Walmart. https://www.axios.com
[11:33:33] <systemd> ^ 03Biden to sign $15 minimum wage executive order for federal contractors
[11:35:51] <FatPhil> Will they never learn? The minimum wage is *always* zero.
[11:38:08] <inz> In Finland "PV" means Suzuki PV
[11:39:58] <inz> they look painful to drive, but I wouldn't quite consider that rape
[11:46:28] <c0lo> FatPhil, if having a job is so important for so many people, why don't they pay for it?
[11:50:52] <AzumaHazuki> ^ what he said
[11:51:55] <AzumaHazuki> and on that note, off to run some errands...
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[12:05:19] <FatPhil> Yeah, but in Finland, you the streets are full of idiots with their Type-R
[12:06:32] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Disrupted Sleep is Linked to Increased Risk of Early Death, Particularly in Women - https://sylnt.us
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[12:49:39] <FatPhil> c0lo: if having a job were to not be important for people (consider the various images of harp-playing eutopias in Star Trek) then your "if having a job is so important" would be false, and therefore your question becomes meaningless, being predicated as it is on a falsity.
[12:52:27] <c0lo> FatPhil, rephrased: given that a job is so important for so many people, why those people don't pay to get the job?
[12:53:02] <FatPhil> the job isn't the important aspect, so again, your "given" is false.
[12:54:59] <FatPhil> It's the profit they desire, and the "payment" they make is their labour.
[12:57:00] <boru> IMHO, wages aren't the problem, rather the cost of living and ownership of things I would consider a human right e.g. home ownership. The gap between salaries and the cost of living has been steadily increasing since the 70s.
[12:57:54] <FatPhil> Socialist!
[12:57:58] <boru> If people didn't have to pay rent every month, I think the populace, in general, would be far better off.
[12:58:34] <FatPhil> Unless you mean the right to be *able* to own a home, not a right to be granted a home of ones own.
[12:59:41] <boru> No no, I mean that people should be granted a home, or be allowed to build on themselves on their own land without the government being involved for anything other than municipal water, sewage or power provisions.
[13:00:54] <boru> For those unable to do so, they should either be provided monetarily to build a home, or be given one built by them.
[13:01:08] <boru> Long story short, as I alluded to above, I consider home ownership a human right.
[13:01:21] <FatPhil> Not sure I agree, as populations are more mobile now, renting is more convenient for many.
[13:02:13] <boru> I don't think that is necessarily precluded; I think everyone should be given the option.
[13:02:19] <FatPhil> OK, I'm happy I'm not renting any more, but I know people who've happily been renting their whole life, and consider that better than the alternatives.
[13:03:07] <boru> Sure. Here in Germany, the majority of the population rent for life. I think it's only some countries in Europe have a populace which predominantly own their home. Ireland is one, Poland is another, and there are a few others.
[13:03:27] <boru> Spain has a rental policy which favours the tenant, so renting is also popular there.
[13:03:34] <FatPhil> Unfortunately, your idealism is quite in line with Thatcher's on the same issue, and that went *horribly* wrong.
[13:03:52] <boru> e.g. children have the opporunity to inherit their parents lease at the same rent.
[13:04:10] <boru> I am utterly disgusting with your comparing me to thatcher.
[13:04:16] <boru> Disgusted, rather.
[13:04:27] <FatPhil> I thought you might be! sorry :)
[13:04:54] <FatPhil> However, her attitude to housing was one of the single biggest issues I had with her.
[13:05:07] <FatPhil> It was even worse than her snatching my milk when I was a kid!
[13:05:52] <boru> I have much bigger issues with her, believe me.
[13:06:11] <FatPhil> But the problem was that she manipulated the markets and pushed people into enormous debt in order to give them their freedom they all deserved
[13:06:54] <boru> Well, English populations have a history of using debt as a weapon on behalf of international banks, so no surprises there.
[13:06:54] <FatPhil> Oh, that reminds me - BBC made a terrible booboo last week, and rather than downloading a 1 hour snooker session, we got a documentary on NI instead.
[13:06:59] <boru> Politicians, even.
[13:07:04] <boru> Too much sun today, I think.
[13:07:27] <boru> I have work to do. I'm not about to discuss NI.
[13:07:28] <FatPhil> I'd be interested in your opinion on it.
[13:07:58] <FatPhil> the documentary, that is, not NI itself.
[13:08:07] <boru> I will say this much: I consider NI to be an illegally occupied territory, and hope I live to see Ireland reunited in my lifetime.
[13:08:41] <boru> The UK and the Free State republic can swing.
[13:09:40] <boru> We can discuss the documentary later.
[13:09:54] * boru goes AFK in a dramatic manner.
[13:11:47] <c0lo> FatPhil, I know cases in which people paid for the job.
[13:12:14] <FatPhil> Most entrepreneurs do, for example.
[13:12:46] <c0lo> Nah, I meant paid to be hired.
[13:13:30] <c0lo> And hired people who do work for less than it costs them to get to the office.
[13:14:22] <c0lo> Second type: interns.
[13:14:52] <FatPhil> apprentices of yore - but you were paying for the training/practice.
[13:15:42] <c0lo> Maybe for the 2nd it's close enough.
[13:15:46] <FatPhil> #include standard doctor/practice joke
[13:17:25] <c0lo> I'll let you rack your brains for how the 1st type can be. Hint: it's a rational (albeit perverse) choice.
[13:18:17] <FatPhil> I know people who have taken jobs specifically as a stepping stone to a different job elsewhere.
[13:19:13] <FatPhil> Therefore that first job has value to them more than just the wage. So to them would be worth paying some of the presumed future gains for.
[13:20:27] <FatPhil> Does "casting couch" et al. count as "paying"?
[13:24:19] <c0lo> "Employer sponsored immigration visa" was what they were paying for. Those Indians can be quite versed in slipping cobras through legal loopholes.
[13:29:04] <FatPhil> I could propose that the existence of a minimum wage is what encourages such schemes. Which is another argument against a minimum wage.
[13:30:15] <c0lo> Could you? Let me see it.
[13:30:43] <FatPhil> Cost to employer is lower, so it's incentivised.
[13:31:49] <c0lo> I don't follow.
[13:32:31] <FatPhil> In that case, I don't follow what you've been saying.
[13:32:43] <c0lo> Ah, I see your train of thought.
[13:33:48] <FatPhil> If there's a MW m, and grunt X is willing to pay x for a job, but grunt Y is not, then the effective payment is m-x, and X gets the job.
[13:34:04] <FatPhil> technically, MW is being paid, practically it isn't
[13:34:13] <c0lo> In this case, it was actually worse than that, as the "employee" never went to the job
[13:36:26] <c0lo> The employer was pocketing the "salary" and the "payment for the service of sponsoring".
[13:37:34] <FatPhil> These schemes are rarely legal in civilised societies.
[13:37:54] <FatPhil> Most of the times you here about them are on the news when the traficking operations behind them are shut down.
[13:38:14] <c0lo> That was the case.
[13:39:32] <FatPhil> If you're opening the discourse to cases that are illegal, well, all bets are off - anything can happen!
[13:42:25] <FatPhil> Oh - for reference - I've been cheering for Trump again, but I'm a couple of days behind (watching 26th afternoon session in the corner of the screen currently) - so no spoilers please :)
[13:43:22] <c0lo> But assuming that the scheme would have been legal (i.e. the employer agrees to sponsor an immigrant in a legal fashion), I assert that the minimum wage would not have been a factor in here.
[13:44:11] <c0lo> Your "demo" works perfectly for any value of m, zero included.
[13:45:37] <c0lo> Eh, I'm still battling mobiles used for executed automated tests. No time for delights.
[13:46:34] <FatPhil> nope, because it's not true that m-0 < m
[13:47:29] <c0lo> But it's true that if the sponsored agrees to work for nothing, s/he'll get the job.
[13:48:02] <c0lo> (vs one that expects a positive salary)
[14:14:32] <bacterium> coffee++
[14:14:33] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5542
[14:24:31] <FatPhil> https://www.popsci.com
[14:24:33] <systemd> ^ 03Caffeine-Addicted Bacteria Die If You Give Them Decaf
[14:35:59] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Meet the 12-Year-Old Graduating High School and College in the Same Week - https://sylnt.us - eager-beaver
[15:00:24] <c0lo> LMAO - a book about the tyranny of big tech cancelling him, sold on Amazon, advertised on Twitter and likely the prospective buyers will use a phone from Apple or Google to buy it.
[15:00:53] <c0lo> https://twitter.com
[15:00:54] <systemd> ^ 03Twitter
[15:09:12] <progo> I had an older fellow student in my lab in college who said he drank too much coffee and he blamed that plus the dunkin donuts "cream" for making him gain weight.
[15:09:39] <progo> I have a friend and former boss who gave herself an ulcer from WAY too much coffee and espresso
[15:10:06] <progo> like, start the day with 4 shots of espresso, and have more caffeine later
[15:10:23] * progo sips dunkin coffee
[15:16:29] <FatPhil> too much coffee was certainly affecting some of my internal organs at one point. I kept up my procedures of making coffee in the office (apparently I made the best coffee, most of the time pots I made would be finished before I could get a pour), and got all the aromas from the exercise, but substituted plain water for the actual drink.
[15:17:11] <FatPhil> Symptoms disappeared within a week, so I kept it up for another and then promised myself to moderate better.
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[16:11:23] <progo> quarterly or halfly or whatever department news meeting, 1 hour. presenter is saying a LOT of not-very-important stuff in the intro. this is going to go long. almost my entire IT/app development department is in attendance EXCEPT most of my immediate coworkers. I can't kvetch with anyone in a back channel
[16:11:47] <progo> this could have been an email with text and a 7 minute video attachment
[16:12:22] <FatPhil> call a meeting with your immediate cow-orkers tomorrow so you can update them on what they're missing
[16:12:40] <progo> ha ha
[16:12:45] * progo starts recording
[16:12:48] <progo> :^)
[16:13:10] <FatPhil> I'm full of good suggestions today!
[16:13:46] <FatPhil> Just now I invented something for the Finns (in particular in the capital area). Maybe I should run it by inz...
[16:14:51] <FatPhil> Pubs are open, but close at 5pm. This means that those without jobs get to drink their unemployment money away... and those with jobs get to run them over! I call the game "ruuhkakeila" - "traffic-jam skittles".
[16:15:16] <progo> hm
[16:15:21] <FatPhil> inz: do you approve? do you think I could get government funding to develop this idea?
[16:16:25] <progo> presenter in my meeting is also running PowerPoint in edit mode with 1/4 of the display taken up by toolbars
[16:17:04] <FatPhil> like all real pros - he's clearly an expert
[16:17:19] <progo> get rich quick by mining bitcoin on an 8-bit microcomputer https://www.youtube.com
[16:17:21] <systemd> ^ 03Bitcoin Mining on the Commodore 64?
[16:20:57] <progo> trend in my company: someone took a bunch of office photographs from the perspective of the top of a display looking back at a chair, from desk cubicles and the library, and a few other spots. workers are using these as phone call backgrounds
[16:21:06] * progo facepalms
[16:24:02] <FatPhil> progo++ c64-mining++
[16:24:02] <Bender> karma - progo: 5
[16:28:21] <bacterium> progo: i have a coworker who took a movie from the same perspective, of himself bringing a cup of coffee to the desk, and now rolls it as virtual background for shock value...
[16:28:37] <progo> fun
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[16:28:52] <inz> FatPhil, sounds like a plan
[16:28:56] <progo> do two images of this person merge into one as the conversation starts?
[16:29:09] <inz> FatPhil, as a employed teatotaller, I approve!
[16:29:29] <bacterium> no lol it looks like a doppleganger walks up behind him, sets a coffee on his desk, and leaves
[16:30:10] <progo> use this as your "I'm listening to the presentation" avatar, and distract the whole meeting https://replika.ai
[16:30:11] <systemd> ^ 03Replika
[16:30:18] <progo> (click 'play')
[16:30:46] <progo> warning: do not install that app. it must be a honeypot for Adtech Skynet to learn more about you
[16:32:40] <progo> "distract" not because it's mildly hot, but because it's too creepy
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[16:35:58] <bacterium> replika: kreepy
[16:40:08] <bacterium> that's the real turing test right here: can ai be convincing enough to elicit a desire to mount it? looks like mission accomplished...
[16:40:30] <progo> until you talk to it
[16:40:35] <bacterium> next up: can i marry my ai chum?
[16:40:38] <progo> (I haven't tried. I assume it's stupid.)
[16:40:54] -!- lld has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[16:40:57] <progo> I thought about setting up an android VM to try it
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[16:41:50] <progo> I wonder, have real humans ever tried fake freckles?
[16:41:52] <bacterium> i mean, if i have my ai do, like, taxes for the household, queue up movies for children, and animate a sex doll, then how's that not a productive member of the household?
[16:42:12] <bacterium> a real partner
[16:42:41] <Ingar> depending on the definition of real
[16:42:57] <Ingar> it would have no soul
[16:43:02] <progo> you hear about the crazy ukrainian body builder who is married to two or three sex dolls? the first one is "in the shop" after problems that happened during the honeymoon
[16:43:14] <progo> one of the english tabloids is amused by this story
[16:43:37] <progo> I suspect he knows exactly what he's doing externally and found a way to become internationally mildly famous
[16:50:10] <Sulla> Will there be robots that can cook and clean before there are sex bots that cook and clean
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[17:00:55] <FatPhil> bacterium: did you see /Ex Machina/?
[17:01:32] <mechanicjay> I'm working from the AlphaServer again today. Life is nerdy.
[17:02:00] <FatPhil> Wahhhh, RIP my 21164 ~14 years ago.
[17:02:27] <FatPhil> what model are you on? I had one of the cheap Samsung-fabbed desktop systems.
[17:04:02] * AzumaHazuki backscrolls a little, has this inescapable creepy feeling the entire sexbot thing will be headed up by angry resentful incels who can't relate to women as humans and basically want "robo-mom but also it has sex"
[17:04:31] <AzumaHazuki> they are in for some real disappointment when they realize it can't reciprocate emotions, no matter how attached they get
[17:04:36] <progo> if it works, AzumaHazuki, isn't that really a problem just solving itself?
[17:04:51] <AzumaHazuki> not really, no, because that could very well crash the population much too quickly
[17:05:17] <progo> I think humans are capable of ramping up reproduction in the presence of a population deficit
[17:05:24] <AzumaHazuki> and what happens if, say, some of these people start programming gynoids to kill human women? sounds far-fetched but i do not put it past a really crazy one to try
[17:05:56] <AzumaHazuki> "Hahahaha! It's infiltrated their group! Gossipy worthless useless fucking whores, BE SCARED! Any of you could be a murderous gynoid"!
[17:06:30] <AzumaHazuki> funny thing is, i'd be less vulnerable to that specific avenue of attack just because i keep to myself all the time
[17:09:49] <mechanicjay> FatPhil: DS20 -- Dual 500Mhz EV6, 4GB Ram. Running Gentoo :)
[17:11:42] <AzumaHazuki> ...you know, i used to play the rockman (megaman) x series a lot. by the fourth game it started getting very philosophical about what, if anything, the essential difference between a human and a Repliroid (hello Blade Runner!) is
[17:11:42] <bacterium> what are you talking about, killing human women? if anything, it looks like it's males who may be bred out of existence, or nearly so, cuz who needs them in such a quantity anymore?
[17:12:19] <AzumaHazuki> (also what does it truly mean to be Irregular/Maverick, since apparently you do NOT need to be virus'd to become one)
[17:13:01] <AzumaHazuki> i knew even way back then that if it ever came down to humans vs robots breaking along lines of bigotry i'd likely be on the robots' side
[17:13:43] <Sulla> I for one want the record to state that i have always been for robot rights
[17:14:24] <bacterium> no, FatPhil, haven't seen this one
[17:16:21] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The World Finally Woke Up to India’s Virus Nightmare - https://sylnt.us - snatching-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory
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[17:35:55] <AzumaHazuki> the word robot itself more or less means laborer, and not one who has a choice about it
[17:36:11] <AzumaHazuki> it's entirely possible that if we ever create sentient AI "robot" will be a kind of slur
[17:36:52] <AzumaHazuki> same way the X series differentiates "mechaniloid" (non-sentient machine) from "repliroid" (Replicant Android, sentient free-willed design based on Rockman X himself)
[17:37:00] <systemd> No! That is our word! You do not get to use that word! This is not okay!
[17:37:17] <AzumaHazuki> and then there's this creeping lovecraftian horror
[17:38:02] <AzumaHazuki> if thinking programs are AI, systemd is AS (and you can guess what the S is)
[17:38:40] <systemd> Saffron
[17:38:53] <progo> in another IRC network, our bot in the main channel is an EggDrop, which is a barely coherent pile of Tcl. It passes the turing test occasionally
[17:39:09] <systemd> >:(
[17:39:18] <AzumaHazuki> so it has that on systemd as well
[17:39:23] <progo> no one will admit to programming the community-specific features in the Eggdrop bot I'm talking about, too. it's weird
[17:40:01] * AzumaHazuki makes note to self: do not program "ultimate combat AI" and "ultimate mediator AI" into one single body. it will not end ell
[17:46:20] <chromas> progo: is it a megahal? we had one of those here near the beginning but NCommander banned it when he found out he was talking to a bot
[17:46:31] <progo> Eggdrop, I said
[17:46:47] <chromas> yeah, megahal's a plugin for it
[17:46:58] <progo> "banned it when he found out he was talking to a bot." LOL
[17:47:04] <progo> oh
[17:47:12] <chromas> it 'learns' from messages in the channel
[17:47:49] <progo> all I know about our eggdrop on the other server is that it has sysadmin privileges, and if you're a local mod and you try to TALK to the damned EggDrop in a "I need to do sysadmin things" context, it's like trying to use CP/M without a manual
[17:49:34] <Ingar> megahal is ... special
[17:49:57] <Ingar> our first one exploded wen it reache sentience
[17:50:03] <Ingar> our second one was very mean
[17:50:24] <progo> yeah I haven't seen it learn anything. unless explicitly programmed, it never responds to something that wasn't said RIGHT NOW
[17:50:24] <progo> eh, too many negatives, sorry. it doesn't remember anything that was said. it only has some talking-back behaviors
[17:50:47] <boru> That is what it wanted you to think.
[17:50:52] <boru> Silly human.
[17:51:30] <Ingar> progo: I don't know, ours (on some other #) made remarks that really scared me
[17:54:26] <progo> corrupted by a human in private chat :^)
[17:54:33] <progo> (wasn't me)
[17:55:23] <Ingar> all in all, a fascinating piece of software
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[17:56:10] <progo> indeed
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[18:40:17] <SoyCow1016> Did Slashdot really buy soylentnews or is that a troll saying that?
[18:40:34] <progo> can't be true, but it'd be funny if it was
[18:40:44] <SoyCow1016> Agreed
[18:40:49] <progo> Soylent News isn't a company for sale
[18:41:13] <SoyCow1016> In my experience a lot of people/organizations that started out not being for sale end up selling out
[18:41:28] <progo> IIRC, the current company that owns Slashdot is responsible for adding malware to Windows installers built on the Sourceforge platform
[18:41:37] <progo> allegedly without project leads' consent
[18:41:44] <progo> (years ago. never forget)
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[18:43:08] <SoyCow1016> dang, the stock market is still hot
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[18:47:44] <Bytram> https://phys.org
[18:47:46] <systemd> ^ 03Astronaut Michael Collins, Apollo 11 pilot, dead of cancer
[18:48:16] <Bytram> https://arstechnica.com
[18:48:17] <systemd> ^ 03Michael Collins, who piloted the Apollo 11 command module, has died ( https://arstechnica.com )
[18:48:34] <progo> I never understood what is the value of an "unboxing" first impression of a product, with no script and no off-camera punching and abuse to see what it does? https://dvorak.substack.com
[18:48:41] <systemd> ^ 03The Scourge of Unboxing Videos - The Oasis
[18:48:52] <Bytram> https://www.cnn.com
[18:48:55] <systemd> ^ 03Apollo 11 astronaut Michael Collins has died at age 90
[18:49:21] <Bytram> http://feedproxy.google.com
[18:49:22] <systemd> ^ 03Apollo 11 astronaut Michael Collins dies at 90 ( https://www.cnet.com )
[18:49:42] <progo> youtube knows I'm intersted in the Boox e-ink tablet brand, and it gave me an unboxing video that wasn't labeled as unboxing. all I got was some neat pictures, "you know I'm interested in this for the drawing capability, but I don't know where that is yet", and lots of giggling
[18:50:23] <FatPhil> :C Michael Collins
[18:52:59] <FatPhil> How many men-gravitationally-bound-to-the-moon remain?
[18:54:31] <progo> all men. Earth-Luna system is almost a double planet
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[19:25:58] <FatPhil> Nope. The barycentre is ours, all ours.
[19:33:24] <progo> :^b I said almost
[19:37:05] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Toyota to Buy Self-Driving Division of U.S. Ride-Hailing Firm Lyft - https://sylnt.us - avoiding-lock-in
[19:38:02] * chromas unboxes an unboxing videos unboxing video
[19:59:41] <Bytram> FatPhil: 10 remain, IIRC. It's in the story I subbed.
[20:06:49] <inz> Who reads those?
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[20:35:03] <FatPhil> Astronaut Michael Collins = A lunatic recalls moon shit (anagram)
[21:18:28] <chromas> recalls shit moon
[21:18:40] <chromas> it's not as good as he remembered
[21:24:19] <Bytram> https://scitechdaily.com
[21:24:20] <systemd> ^ 03New Test Can Predict Severe COVID-19 Cases
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[21:30:06] <Sulla> just unboxed my mitutoyo calipers, lucked out and amazon actually sent authentic ones
[21:32:53] <Bytram> https://www.cnn.com
[21:32:55] <systemd> ^ 03Microsoft is retiring its default font, and it wants your help choosing a new one
[22:07:13] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Michael Collins, Who Piloted the Apollo 11 Command Module, has Died at 90 - https://sylnt.us - R.I.P.