#soylent | Logs for 2021-04-27

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[00:47:51] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Body's Natural Pain Killers Enhanced: Study in Cells, Mice Finds Compound Works; Few Side Effects - https://sylnt.us
[00:57:00] <Bytram> Aiiiieeeee! Make it stop talking!
[00:57:36] <Runaway1956> We love our sad bastards around here.
[00:57:49] * Bytram apparently activated assistive tech of some sort - now my computer is reading menu and screen stuff to me!
[00:57:51] <Runaway1956> Except the funny looking ones . . .
[00:58:54] <Runaway1956> Hmmmm, breakfast nachos. No salsa . . .
[00:59:24] <Bytram> Ubuntu Mate - I did Windows-key H E and then accidentally did not type X before I pressed enter.
[00:59:42] <Bytram> I was intending to being up HexChat
[01:00:00] <Bytram> Now it seems like my lappy is hexed!
[01:00:06] * Runaway1956 never uses the windows key
[01:00:18] <Runaway1956> Bill Gates might do anything to your computer if you invoke him like that
[01:01:15] <Bytram> Looks like I started up the screen reader
[01:02:47] <Bytram> =g Ubuntu mate how to turn off screen reader
[01:02:48] <systemd> https://ubuntu-mate.community - How can I turn off orca screen reader? - Ubuntu MATE Community
[01:08:00] <chromas> Runaway1956: boy you best make salsa right now, mister!
[01:08:42] <Runaway1956> You probably wouldn't enjoy my salsa - let me get one of the women from work on that
[01:08:56] <chromas> Do you put AIDS in it or something?
[01:09:09] <Runaway1956> I just don't have the knack for it
[01:09:10] <chromas> You just dice a few things and mix together
[01:09:35] <Runaway1956> I know, but it always lacks something when I try
[01:09:44] <chromas> Probably salt
[01:09:51] <Fnord666> salt or lime juice probably
[01:09:56] * Runaway1956 ducks out to buy a jar of Pace Picante sauce
[01:09:57] <chromas> And tie it together with an acid
[01:10:08] <chromas> yeah lime juice, or vinegar if you like the store-bought style
[01:10:12] <Fnord666> one hit or two?
[01:10:28] <chromas> two!
[01:10:47] <Fnord666> probably doesn't have enough ghost pepper either
[01:11:08] <Fnord666> for that burning ring of fire effect
[01:11:11] <Runaway1956> You can stir it with a ghost gun to make up for lack of ghost pepper
[01:11:36] <chromas> ghost guns: so hot right now
[01:11:49] <Fnord666> just don't get it in the serial number. oh wait....
[01:12:03] <Bytram> so, the process it loaded was called 'orca'
[01:12:06] <Runaway1956> Yeah, it's like everyone in Washington thinks there's a pandemic of ghost guns
[01:12:27] <chromas> They just need some ghost peppers
[01:12:29] * Runaway1956 searched for "orca" in the repositories
[01:12:33] <chromas> Ghosts aren't even all that bad
[01:12:34] <Runaway1956> yeah, it's there
[01:12:52] <Fnord666> That explains the "orca" part of the link you found above
[01:13:08] <chromas> Blah blah blah Bytram is your computer reading this out loud right now?
[01:13:21] <chromas> HEY NEIGHBORS I LIKE TURTLES
[01:13:22] <Runaway1956> Is it a retarded sounding robo-voice?
[01:13:42] <Fnord666> supercalifragalisticexpealadocious
[01:13:57] <Fnord666> man my spelling is atrocious
[01:14:06] <chromas> expialatrocious
[01:14:08] <Runaway1956> thanks fnord666 - I forgot how to spell that
[01:14:22] <Fnord666> =g supercalifragalisticexpealadocious
[01:14:23] <systemd> https://www.wattpad.com - Supercalifragalisticexpealadocious Stories - Wattpad
[01:14:24] <Bytram> finally tried ps -x to get a list of "processes without controlling ttys", saw PID: 72818, kill -9 72818 and now is quiet again!
[01:14:36] <chromas> you can also "killall orca"
[01:15:06] <Bytram> chromas: now you tell me!
[01:15:08] <chromas> Also, sir, I suggest you install htop
[01:15:09] <Runaway1956> That's what Biden's shotgun is for
[01:15:35] <Fnord666> su·per·ca·li·fra·gil·is·tic·ex·pi·a·li·do·cious
[01:15:38] <chromas> To keep it spicy?
[01:15:44] <Fnord666> I was closer than I thought I was.
[01:15:44] <chromas> Are there "shotgun peppers"?
[01:15:50] <Bytram> sudo snap install htop # version 3.0.5, or
[01:15:50] <Bytram> sudo apt install htop # version 2.2.0-2build1
[01:16:09] <chromas> I also recommend avoiding snap wherever possible
[01:16:18] * Runaway1956 doesn't do snap - apt is more gooder
[01:16:18] <Fnord666> ah, why is that?
[01:16:23] <Bytram> from what little I've seen, snaps are bloated and slow
[01:16:36] <chromas> snap is for desktop applications; I dunno why they're doing system utilities that way
[01:16:38] <Runaway1956> like phat broads, right?
[01:17:06] <Fnord666> good to know. I've never used them before and now I never will. Snaps that is.
[01:17:11] <chromas> The idea of snaps is all the shared libs and stuff are included in one package so you don't have to care about dependencies...you know, the thing your package manager automatically handles
[01:17:30] <Bytram> so, go current version with a snap, or older version "native"?
[01:17:32] <chromas> But if you want the latest of some app that requires a newer shared lib than your distro has, it can be pretty handy
[01:17:40] <Runaway1956> I wish I had a package manager, I'm stuck with apt, apt-get, and aptitude
[01:17:55] <Fnord666> Try fed-ex
[01:18:09] <Bytram> Fnord666++ LOL!!!!!!
[01:18:09] <Bender> karma - fnord666: 33
[01:18:13] <chromas> there's also some isolation from the system so it may help security-wise if you're trying some unknown application
[01:18:29] <Runaway1956> Upstarts - I respect old Buster Brown in his little brown truck.
[01:18:35] <Fnord666> That's what docker images or virtualbox is for
[01:18:55] <chromas> If I remember right, snaps use containerization like docker does
[01:19:06] <chromas> or it might just be a chroot
[01:19:06] <Runaway1956> I recently learned that you can use Vbox to stop and start docker images
[01:19:11] <Runaway1956> thought that was pretty cool
[01:19:32] <Fnord666> that is interesting
[01:21:03] <Bytram> chromas: so, having previously built static programs, we moved to DLLs so we could share libraries, and now we have SNAPs which are some kinda sandboxed static build?
[01:21:17] <chromas> sandboxed shared build
[01:21:37] <chromas> I think partly because a lot of the shared libs aren't able to be statically compiled
[01:22:23] <Bytram> dependencies issues?
[01:22:24] <chromas> but that's why they feel bloated. Gotta have your own bundled gtk or whatever
[01:22:45] <Bytram> ewwww!
[01:23:05] <Fnord666> application bloat or dynamicl library versioning hell. You decide!
[01:23:25] <chromas> I don't know what all is involved, just that there's been a lot of work just to get snap apps to be able to follow your desktop themes and whatnot
[01:23:51] <Runaway1956> My wife just asked me, "What's a pink supermoon? We're supposed to have one tonight!"
[01:23:56] <chromas> and that's also where pipewire came from, but it's pretty kickass
[01:24:16] <Runaway1956> I really don't believe that if I look at the moon, it will be pink - or blue - or even green cheesey.
[01:24:20] <chromas> we had a pretty large yellow moon thi s morning
[01:24:32] <chromas> smorning
[01:24:58] <chromas> Runaway1956: you just have to age the moon a bit to get that nice green texture. it really brings out the flavor
[01:24:59] <Fnord666> Tell her it's the opposite of a blue moon and that it's used for reveal parties.
[01:25:16] <Bytram> prolly brie or gouda or somesuch
[01:25:21] <Runaway1956> Reveal panties?
[01:25:33] <Bytram> Fnord666++ Brilliant!
[01:25:33] <Bender> karma - fnord666: 34
[01:25:33] <Fnord666> That's another way to do it I guess
[01:25:57] <Fnord666> Better than colored Depends....
[01:27:45] <Bytram> =yt RSJNBUGoAo4
[01:27:46] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Amy Allen - One [Official Lyric Video] (04:12; 12,943 views; 👍146 👎5)
[01:28:40] <Bytram> Fnord666: tru dat
[01:29:05] <Bytram> if that's the case, one better hope you can depend on them
[01:31:00] * Runaway1956 needs a new battery charger
[01:31:17] <Runaway1956> second slot no longer works, can only charge one battery at a time
[01:36:14] <Runaway1956> https://www.howtogeek.com
[01:36:15] <systemd> ^ 03How to Upgrade Your Computer to USB 3.0
[01:37:34] <Runaway1956> Read another article earlier - dude had like 100 USB devices connected - using a few tricks
[01:37:52] <Runaway1956> starts out by choosing his USB hubs carefully
[01:38:36] <chromas> Did he RAID them together?
[01:38:55] <Runaway1956> https://www.yoctopuce.com
[01:38:57] <systemd> ^ 03How many USB devices can you connect ?
[01:39:06] <Runaway1956> Nahhhh, you gotta tree them
[01:40:24] <Runaway1956> I think he said the practical limit is about 50 devices
[01:40:40] <chromas> Just add more host controllers! :)
[01:41:19] <Runaway1956> Like this? https://www.amazon.com
[01:41:37] <chromas> Yeah, boiii
[01:42:00] <chromas> Just need to find a way to rackmount USB drives
[01:42:01] <Runaway1956> Problem is, that's for a PC, and I'm driving a Linux box
[01:42:18] <chromas> your linux box doesn't have pcie slots?
[01:42:38] <Runaway1956> Well, yeah, but, it speaks *nix,
[01:42:48] <Runaway1956> lol, you don't remember the PC vs Mac commercials?
[01:43:38] <chromas> oh yeah
[01:43:49] <chromas> justin long and that one guy
[01:44:07] <Runaway1956> what happened to justin thyme?
[01:44:17] <chromas> https://www.youtube.com
[01:44:19] <systemd> ^ 03Mac vs PC Parody: The Unspoken Message
[01:45:43] <chromas> "This is extremly offensive. I happen to be gay myself and would never bring myself so low to using a Mac. Even closeted, insecure, gay teenagers with Tumblr acounts have standards."
[01:52:07] <Runaway1956> I believe that when women succeed, America succeeds!
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[02:41:45] <c0lo> =submit late-happy-birthday-hubble https://www.nasa.gov
[02:41:48] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Hubble Captures Giant Star on the Edge of Destruction" (2p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[02:44:52] <c0lo> =submit doi-10.7554/eLife.63713 https://news.stanford.edu
[02:44:55] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Stanford Study Dives Deeper Into Genetic Differences Between Modern and Archaic Humans" (28p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[02:48:19] <c0lo> =submit doi-10.1016/j.cub.2021.03.014 https://phys.org
[02:48:24] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Mysterious Ocean-floor Trails Show Arctic Sponges on the Move" (6p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[02:51:10] <c0lo> =submit haggis-population-on-the-rice https://www.euronews.com
[02:51:13] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Scotland Could Become the World’s First ‘Rewilding Nation’" (1p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[02:53:55] <c0lo> =submit https://www.rmit.edu.au
[02:54:01] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Australian Airports Could Generate Enough Solar Energy to Power a Regional City: Study" (16p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[03:00:24] <c0lo> =submit your-mother-is-a-llama https://www.wehi.edu.au
[03:00:29] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Nanobodies Inhibit SARS-CoV-2 Infection" (28p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[03:02:22] <c0lo> =submit your-daughter-is-an-idiot https://www.abc.net.au
[03:02:27] <systemd> ✓* Sub-ccess! "08'You Lose People Very Quickly': Talking to Friends or Family Who are Down the Anti-vaccine Rabbit Ho" (142p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[03:02:44] <chromas> Rabbit Ho
[03:15:32] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Apple Moving Forward on App Privacy, Despite Pushback - https://sylnt.us
[03:30:02] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[03:30:27] <c0lo> =submit for-ef https://www.jpost.com
[03:30:30] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Locusts Swarm Israel's South, Provide 'Protein Festival' for Birds -Watch" (1p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[03:32:45] <c0lo> =submit https://news.sky.com
[03:32:47] <systemd> ✓* Sub-ccess! "08Israel Rejects 'Preposterous' Report Claiming It's Committing 'Crimes Against Humanity' by Persecuti" (32p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[03:36:12] <c0lo> Huh? "The community, which numbers around 3,000 people, is comprised of Black Americans whose founders moved to Israel in the 1960s and believe they are descendants of an ancient Israelite tribe."
[03:36:19] <c0lo> =submit https://apnews.com
[03:36:21] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Spokesman: Israel to Deport Dozens of African Hebrews" (10p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[03:37:35] <chromas> Black Israelites is a thing. They were the third party at the event with the Covington kids a couple years ago.
[03:41:49] <AzumaHazuki> that is bizarre.
[03:42:20] <AzumaHazuki> probably has something to do with the fact that Jewishness is part ethnicity and part religion, that whole "chosen people" (by whom, and for what pray tell?) thing
[03:42:37] <c0lo> chromas, not the black Israelites were the cause of my "Huh". The "moved to Israel in the 1960s" and expelled now.
[03:42:38] <AzumaHazuki> which explains precisely jack and squat about the Ashkenazim, and makes you wondere where the Sephardim went
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[03:44:58] <c0lo> in any case, from a large distance, the next starts to paint an image similar to the evangelicals in US https://www.haaretz.com
[03:45:01] <systemd> ^ 03Ultra-Orthodox dropouts flock to violent Jerusalem protests, pointing to a worrying trend - Business
[03:50:04] <c0lo> chromas++ TIL Black Hebrew Israelites
[03:50:05] <Bender> karma - chromas: 351
[03:53:34] <c0lo> =submit https://www.theguardian.com
[03:53:37] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Model’s ‘Hands Off My Hijab’ Post Sparks Protest Over France’s Proposed Ban" (13p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[03:54:23] <chromas> Do hijabs run Linux?
[03:56:31] * chromas waits for Apple to come out with the iJab
[04:01:18] <c0lo> chromas, looks like visualstudio https://www.microsoft.com
[04:02:12] <chromas> I hope those are university textbooks. Wouldn't want the monitor stand to be cheaper than the monitor
[04:02:56] <c0lo> =submit https://www.marketplace.org
[04:03:00] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Eau De Livestock, Anyone?" (9p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[04:03:05] <c0lo> ^^^ “Our countryside has its own sounds — tractors, cowbells and church bells, seagulls and cicadas — and its own smells such as liquid manure or grape must. Now officials are drawing up an inventory of sounds and smells that deserve protection. So when someone complains, judges can refer to it and say, ‘No, this sound or smell belongs here,’”
[04:03:53] <chromas> dang city folk
[04:16:03] <c0lo> =submit https://www.theguardian.com
[04:16:06] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03UK Replaces France as Europe’s Second Largest Electric Car Market" (14p) -> https://soylentnews.org
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[05:12:25] <AzumaHazuki> stuff is starting to move really fast...I may have found an apartment for my mother and myself for a decent price for 1 June move-in. hope like hell we can lock this in ASAP
[05:12:37] <AzumaHazuki> my leave ends 3 June so this is going to be really good timing if we can pull it off
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[05:47:31] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Emotet Malware Forcibly Removed Today by German Police Update - https://sylnt.us
[06:04:42] -!- Anti-aristarchus [Anti-aristarchus!~05b5ebba@5.181.vmj.pwz] has joined #soylent
[07:00:09] <AzumaHazuki> question: why do so many right-wingers publicly advocate for hard laissez-faire capitalism, yet keep getting continually owned by the masses? :D
[07:10:24] <c0lo> define self-driving cars a military race then https://www.msn.com
[07:10:25] <systemd> ^ 03Two U.S. senators make new push to advance self-driving cars
[07:11:40] <AzumaHazuki> hah, yeah, a matter of national security
[07:17:49] <c0lo> Can't be national security, otherwise nobody will drive them...
[07:17:58] <c0lo> Umm... what?
[07:18:14] <c0lo> =submit https://montrealgazette.com
[07:18:19] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Pfizer is Testing a Pill That, If Successful, Could Become First-ever Home Cure for COVID-19" (30p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[08:06:14] <c0lo> Runaway1956, would you award a MUC to Rowan County police if only those 2 were the bad apples? https://blacksportsonline.com
[08:06:15] <systemd> ^ 03Cops Pull 68-Year-Old Black Woman Stephanie Bottom Out of Her Car By Her Hair and Dislocated Her Shoulder For Speeding; Cops Laughed About Incident
[08:08:22] <c0lo> https://apnews.com
[08:08:23] <systemd> ^ 03Attorney: Black man killed by deputies shot in back of head
[08:15:08] <c0lo> https://www.denverpost.com
[08:15:09] <systemd> ^ 03Colorado officers who violently arrested 73-year-old with dementia laughed about incident afterward, video shows
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[08:18:55] <c0lo> =submit https://lenews.ch
[08:18:59] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Switzerland's Small Farmers Support Vote to Ban Pesticides" (10p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[08:23:43] <c0lo> =submit sleazy-or-what https://jalopnik.com
[08:23:45] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Tesla Loses a Lot of Money Selling Cars, but Makes It All Back on Credits and Bitcoin" (2p) -> https://soylentnews.org
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[08:25:03] <c0lo> =submit https://www.japantimes.co.jp
[08:25:06] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Japan Times" (20p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[08:26:55] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The World’s Oldest Whiskey is About to be Sold at Auction - https://sylnt.us
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[08:41:14] <c0lo> the irony is almost silvery, FB trying to censor a report showing they didn't censor enough
[08:41:23] <c0lo> #submit https://www.buzzfeednews.com
[08:41:24] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[08:41:49] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[08:46:07] <boru> Fe isn't Ag-y, silly.
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[08:54:37] <JudenRatten> You will take the vax.
[08:54:43] <JudenRatten> You will eat the bugs
[08:54:50] <JudenRatten> you will live in pods.
[08:55:07] <JudenRatten> You will wear the masks
[08:55:11] <boru> Pods? As in with whales?
[08:55:28] <JudenRatten> you will be modded down for questioning all of the above.
[08:56:07] <JudenRatten> The Davos agenda is our agenda. To disagree is to be racist.
[08:56:18] <JudenRatten> And you don't want to be a racist, do you?
[08:56:22] <AzumaHazuki> this is what eths actually believe
[08:56:51] <AzumaHazuki> up a rope, you may piss. paranoid schizophrenic, you likely are. enough of your stupidity, Yoda, has had
[08:57:41] <JudenRatten> I wouldn't expect a paranoid schizo had enough power to take down a forum.
[08:57:54] <JudenRatten> Michael David Crawford didn't.
[08:59:12] <JudenRatten> No more beef for you,
[08:59:16] <boru> Is this story comments drama again?
[08:59:28] <boru> If so, I will go and make some lunch.
[08:59:57] <JudenRatten> Hell, boru, you'd better wean yourself from Beefeater gin:
[08:59:58] <JudenRatten> https://www.beefeatergin.com
[09:00:00] <systemd> ^ 03This is Real London Dry Gin
[09:00:16] <boru> You what?
[09:00:18] <JudenRatten> Because people don't want us to eete beef.
[09:00:24] <boru> How dare you insinuiate that I would drink gin.
[09:00:28] <boru> You feckless rogue.
[09:03:10] <AzumaHazuki> oh man, eth, now you did it
[09:03:32] <JudenRatten> Hey guys, we were just kidding about that whole oppression thing!
[09:03:51] <JudenRatten> We didn't mean it!
[09:04:07] <AzumaHazuki> sad thing is, the dumb fuck may be right: the mods and admins are spineless shits and won't get rid of people like him, so they're free to smear their feces all over the forum
[09:04:39] <AzumaHazuki> what a way to go :/
[09:04:48] <JudenRatten> I agree, Azuma.
[09:05:16] <AzumaHazuki> i don't care what you think, eth
[09:05:33] <JudenRatten> I sure wouldn't want to be a public-facing individual in a time when they're all held hostage by weirdos like you.
[09:05:36] <AzumaHazuki> and "think" is much too charitable a word for what you do
[09:05:44] <AzumaHazuki> case in point ^
[09:06:52] <JudenRatten> In a time when "free speech" is considered to be an obscenity.
[09:07:02] <Anti-aristarchus> Still unemployed after the fiasco at Boston Dynamics, eh? Only 24 years old, and unemployable for life? Perhaps a life of crime?
[09:07:39] <JudenRatten> Hey Anti-aristarchus...i thought you were like, um, anti-Aristarchus or something.
[09:07:45] <FatPhil> I'm sure the drencrom will keep him going
[09:08:34] <JudenRatten> Kinda sad, I expected more from the Davos shill crowd.
[09:09:17] <JudenRatten> It's like in Scooby Doo when they pull the mask off the bad guy
[09:09:33] <JudenRatten> "Hahahaha! Yes, I was the bad guy all along! No regrets!"
[09:09:36] <Anti-aristarchus> I only know what I read in IRC. Don't see how that is pro or anti-aristarchus.
[09:10:23] <JudenRatten> Well, I know who the bad guy is, and one need not look any further than my username to ascertain that proposition.
[09:10:28] <JudenRatten> HahahahahheeeheehOOOOO!
[09:11:06] <Anti-aristarchus> Time for the Jew Bear, from Inglorious Bastards. And you thought that was fiction?
[09:12:24] <JudenRatten> Ah, a threat. Well, Bear Jew had better put on some spectacles, as his inbredness will prevent him from getting a good strike.
[09:13:10] <JudenRatten> I, however, have excellent vision. Because unlike the Bear Jew, I am not inbred. And that is not a threat. I don't believe in the book of Sanhedrin.
[09:14:06] <Anti-aristarchus> His name is Stephen Miller, formerly of the Trump administration. Originally from your neighborhood! Time to permaban the Ethanal_fluid. In memoriam NCommander.
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[09:15:39] * JudenRatten reads AA's lit
[09:15:54] <JudenRatten> You moron, Santa Monica is not San Diego, thankfully.
[09:18:04] <JudenRatten> Let's talk about L.A. Seems the Oscars have been a complete disaster.
[09:18:36] <JudenRatten> But I do like one thing they finally did right.
[09:18:55] <JudenRatten> https://losangeles.cbslocal.com
[09:18:56] <systemd> ^ 03Judge Orders LA To Offer Shelter To All Unhoused Skid Row Residents By October
[09:19:19] <JudenRatten> It's about fucking time, too bad it had to be a court-order instead of their "progressive altruism."
[09:20:44] <JudenRatten> For a city with plenty of loud people, why did it take so long for a basic human right, in their eyes, to finally be afforded?
[09:22:48] <AzumaHazuki> was this guy actually AT boston dynamics? because i can't imagine him managing to operate the fry machine at McDs without fucking it up
[09:23:57] <JudenRatten> Sure was,
[09:24:07] <JudenRatten> I left as a scientist.
[09:24:18] <FatPhil> maybe he was the test subject when they wanted to know if the technology was idiot-proof?
[09:25:07] <JudenRatten> Fatphil, if you really must know, one of the many reasons was because they had a machine nobody knew.
[09:25:31] <JudenRatten> I figured out half of it, then found some junk data from it somewhere else.
[09:26:17] <JudenRatten> Okay, I'll get to the point. They were bullshitting data. They expected me to do the same to earn a big contract.
[09:27:15] <JudenRatten> I told them to fuck off, then curtseyed my way out. I'm not gonna bullshit data to win Chinese contracts in national security situations.
[09:27:25] <JudenRatten> That's what Mexicans are for.
[09:28:41] <JudenRatten> Let one of their Mexicans or Jewish managers supervise that hoax.
[09:31:20] <JudenRatten> Some people have principles.
[09:31:37] <JudenRatten> They call out bullshit for what it really is.
[09:31:57] <JudenRatten> Others make deals with the devil.
[09:32:28] <JudenRatten> And are held hostage by the lunatic fringe. Faggot cocksuckers like Azuma, being the fringe.
[09:36:57] <JudenRatten> I feel kinda bad for ncommander.
[09:37:50] <JudenRatten> I get a Ted Cruz vibe from him. He got shoved into a position when all he really wants to do is vacation in cancun or play vidya games like Universal Europe
[09:38:55] <JudenRatten> Crazy trannies ruthlessly attacked both.
[09:40:05] <JudenRatten> Forcing Ted to give up his vacation to pretend he isn't tired as fuck at bullshit politics, and forcing Ncommander into a stance he'd rather delegate to somebody else while playing Universal Europe.
[09:41:21] <c0lo> https://www.startribune.com
[09:41:23] <systemd> ^ 03Mexico's Zapatistas to visit Spain 500 years after conquest
[09:43:15] <c0lo> The cancunians go to Spain, not in Texas
[09:47:31] <JudenRatten> The Brazilians go to Portugal, not Equador
[09:54:39] <JudenRatten> juden
[09:54:42] <JudenRatten> ratten
[09:58:26] <AzumaHazuki> somehow i don't think you got canned for refusing to bullshit data. if you acted anything like this back then you got canned for being nuttier than a 55 gallon drum of pickled squirrel testicles
[09:59:40] <JudenRatten> I don't behave in real-life as I do here.
[09:59:54] <JudenRatten> I'm very polite.
[10:00:38] <JudenRatten> I don't even have problems with bullshitting data, unless the requirements get too stupid.
[10:00:51] <JudenRatten> And stupid they did indeed become.
[10:03:02] <AzumaHazuki> bullll-shit, private pyle
[10:03:37] <JudenRatten> You are helluva dumb-da-dumb-dum!
[10:05:28] <JudenRatten> Every line I post here insults your wimp-ass. It insults every wimp-ass reading these. It makes me happy, to read all these.
[10:06:27] <AzumaHazuki> where is that "you are a gigantic faggot" GIF when i need it...?
[10:08:07] <JudenRatten> Put on your fursuit, furfag
[10:08:37] <JudenRatten> Let's see that black dildo in your foxmouth.
[10:09:06] <AzumaHazuki> you are into some weird shit
[10:09:41] <JudenRatten> Not as weird as widespread censorship, puto.
[10:10:11] <JudenRatten> You are sucking the cocks of Davos motherfuckers.
[10:10:13] <JudenRatten> Not me.
[10:10:30] <AzumaHazuki> are you done? you're starting to repeat yourself
[10:11:12] <JudenRatten> I might be done, if I am banned.
[10:12:25] <JudenRatten> Davos Cocksuckers
[10:12:35] <JudenRatten> HahahahahaHEEEHEEHOOOOOOOO!
[10:12:49] <AzumaHazuki> probably not going to happen. you and Buzztard are basically each others' long-lost buttpirate brothers
[10:13:13] <AzumaHazuki> man this place has gone to complete shit
[10:13:55] <JudenRatten> Horseshit. I never wanted to know Buzz or any other admin of this place.
[10:14:31] <AzumaHazuki> just your own bad luck then. you two could be twins
[10:14:35] <JudenRatten> Somebody happens to agree with me on some points. Wow, everybody agrees with me!
[10:15:16] <AzumaHazuki> it's more that both of you are gigantic faggots, i mean
[10:15:19] <JudenRatten> I don't care what he does anymore than you do.
[10:18:48] -!- JudenRatten has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[10:21:29] <AzumaHazuki> well, admins?
[10:34:06] <c0lo> https://www.newsweek.com
[10:34:08] <systemd> ^ 03Pastor Shane Vaughn says George Soros ruined "wonderful" Apartheid-era South Africa
[10:35:30] <c0lo> Ah, shit. He quit already.
[10:56:57] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Scotland Could Become the World's First "Rewilding Nation" - https://sylnt.us
[12:03:31] <chromas> dammit I kinda wanted to grab a quote from AzumaHazuki but I missed my chance
[12:03:56] <chromas> AzumaHazuki++ 5 lines ago
[12:03:57] <Bender> karma - azumahazuki: 73
[12:04:22] <AzumaHazuki> did that go down or up?
[12:04:30] <chromas> sure did!
[12:07:03] <chromas> Future your information though, we did once have some photographic 'evidence' of 'eth' 'working' at allegedly Boston Dynamics and also a dick pic
[12:07:36] <chromas> (in separate photos, of course)
[12:15:56] <Ingar> /ignore add *@104.200.oqm.itj
[12:16:07] <Ingar> issue solved!
[12:30:05] <Ingar> (till he joins again)
[13:14:23] <AzumaHazuki> ugh. worst part is, he's actually right about something: no one's banning him, so he can basically shit up the forums and IRC.
[13:14:56] <AzumaHazuki> SN's admins have no balls (or ovaries). there, i said. no gonads, no spine, might as well be crawling slimy things on the seafloor. i hope NCommander pulls the plug
[13:21:53] -!- SoyCow639 [SoyCow639!~40399246@64.57.quj.tp] has joined #soylent
[13:22:01] <SoyCow639> =cite https://journals.aps.org
[13:22:03] <systemd> Journal Reference: Rebecca K. Leane, Juri Smirnov. Exoplanets as Sub-GeV Dark Matter Detectors [open], <cite>Physical Review Letters</cite> (DOI: <a href="https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevLett.126.161101">10.1103/PhysRevLett.126.161101</a>)
[13:22:46] <FatPhil> https://www.bloomberg.com
[13:22:47] <systemd> ^ 03Bloomberg - Are you a robot? ( https://www.bloomberg.com )
[13:23:42] <AzumaHazuki> no-i-am-not-a-robot-why-would-anyone-suspect-such-a-thing-bzzt
[13:24:12] -!- SoyCow639 has quit [Client Quit]
[13:25:44] <boru> Well, as the old addage goes, don't feed the trolls.
[13:26:39] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Tesla Breaks its Own Delivery and Production Records in a Profitable Q1 - https://sylnt.us - also-made-$101-million-selling-Bitcoin
[13:58:48] <janrinok> AzumaHazuki - if you don't like it why don't you just leave? If you don't like the way the site is run then go start your own, or just browse the net like millions of others do. I cannot understand what perverse pleasure you get from coming here and complaining. There are problems with the site - but your only suggestion is to ban people or prevent free speech. What would YOU do?
[13:59:16] <AzumaHazuki> if i were in charge? implement some fucking standards
[13:59:39] <janrinok> standards in what?
[13:59:55] <AzumaHazuki> ... guess. take willllllld guess
[14:00:15] <AzumaHazuki> ncommander would be within his rights to burn the whole place down and i for one hope he does. it was predicated on a naive idea of what "free speech" is and how to preserve it, and we've turned into 4chan
[14:00:19] <janrinok> NO - say it clearly and in polite english
[14:00:53] <AzumaHazuki> here's a start: any post that consists of essentially "niggerniggernigger" (substitute slur at will) gets deleted and the user tempbanned
[14:00:56] <AzumaHazuki> longer each offense
[14:01:09] <janrinok> YOU control moderation - not us
[14:01:17] <c0lo> janrinok, why do you suggest AzumaHazuki to leave instead of expressing her opinions? Aren't those opinion welcomed on a freeze peach site?
[14:01:25] * AzumaHazuki cracks up laughing
[14:01:30] <AzumaHazuki> c0lo, don't be naive
[14:01:37] <AzumaHazuki> you know the answer to that already :)
[14:01:38] <janrinok> this isn't the site - this is IRC. There is a big difference
[14:02:06] <c0lo> Ummm... were AzumaHazuko's opinions uncivil?
[14:02:20] <janrinok> and I have just asked for her opinions, or do you ignore those things that don't fit your own particular argument?
[14:02:39] <AzumaHazuki> so lemme get this straight, as far as IRC goes, pErSoNaL aTtAcKs Oh HoRrOrS!!!111one are verboten, ostensibly so we don't scare people off, but eth's constant diarrhea floods are just fine?
[14:02:42] <AzumaHazuki> idi na khuy!
[14:03:05] <AzumaHazuki> the hypocrisy is immeasurable
[14:03:21] <janrinok> Az, so who decides what level of comments should be banned and what should be acceptable? You, me, the community?
[14:03:37] * c0lo grins large while pushing butto... umm... on the keyboard
[14:03:46] <AzumaHazuki> there's no community left, fool. we've turned into 4chan
[14:03:53] <AzumaHazuki> and you admins sure as shit don't give a damn
[14:04:34] <AzumaHazuki> signal to noise ratio. posts full of nothing but "hurr hurr Khazar Jew rats" add nothing to the signal and actively detract from it. they're worse than pure noise
[14:04:35] <chromas> 4chan deletes tons of posts
[14:04:38] <janrinok> so you think the answer is banning some forms of speech? That is your solution. So what forms of speech would you approve of?
[14:04:43] <chromas> that's why 8chan and others
[14:04:58] * c0lo admires janrinok subtle power play when he reminds the editors have superior powers
[14:05:15] <AzumaHazuki> i work on a default-allow principle, and again, my metric is signal to noise ratio. "is what is being said in any useful? if not, is it at least not harmful?"
[14:05:19] <janrinok> NO I HAVEN'T got any special privs
[14:05:23] <AzumaHazuki> this isn't difficult. stop playing these bullshit games with me
[14:05:45] <AzumaHazuki> i've been saying these things for years and no one listens, and that means they REFUSE to listen because they like things as they are, consequences be damned
[14:06:03] <janrinok> so moderate those other comments appropriately. You are a member of this community - why aren't you moderating?
[14:06:16] <AzumaHazuki> i'm not moderating? that's news to me
[14:06:37] <AzumaHazuki> here's a clue: ONE WOMAN CANNOT MODERATE AN ENTIRE SHIT-TSUNAMI ALL ALONE AND WE ONLY GET 10 MOD POINTS A DAY
[14:06:51] <AzumaHazuki> if you cowards want me to do your dirty work, i will need the appropriate tools
[14:06:51] <janrinok> I don't like things as they are. We have providing the tools to moderate. But it seems that too many of our community don't care about moderation.
[14:06:55] <boru> I'd advocate against censorship, personally. Invariably, it starts of with innocent intent, and then turns into something very ugly. IRC has /ignore, and the site has a comment visibility setting. You can chose to use these features, or engage with these witty types resulting only in elevating your blood pressure and some sort of perverse satisfaction for them.
[14:06:57] <AzumaHazuki> no shit
[14:07:12] <janrinok> So now you are suggesting that I should spend hours of my day moderating because the community are not doing it?
[14:07:26] <AzumaHazuki> ...do you have some kind of reading comprehension issue?
[14:07:54] <janrinok> no - not at all. Did you read Boru's comment?
[14:08:07] <AzumaHazuki> yes. it's not germane as things stand
[14:08:22] <AzumaHazuki> you admin types are hiding your heads in the sand. it's not going to get better as things stand
[14:08:22] <janrinok> set your reading level at 2 or higher.
[14:08:41] <AzumaHazuki> i've been offering you people suggestions and you shitcan every single one
[14:08:59] <AzumaHazuki> here's an idea: reading level defaults to 2, ACs default to -1, no one can journal till they have 10 karma
[14:09:00] <janrinok> you seem incapable of changing the settings to see what you want to see, yet we are at fault for not censoring others.
[14:09:19] <AzumaHazuki> i've already edited my settings. ignoring a problem won't make it go away
[14:09:28] <janrinok> Don't read the journals - or is that too difficult for you?
[14:09:29] <boru> In this case, I don't agree, actually.
[14:09:36] <boru> These people's sole goal is annoy you.
[14:09:49] <boru> By engaging with them, you give them the opportunity to do just that.
[14:09:57] <AzumaHazuki> stop murdering those strawmen, jan. if you kill enough of them they wait for you in Hell and they hang you upside down and stuff dried grass up your ass until you explode
[14:09:59] * Bytram tries to catch up on backscroll
[14:10:01] <boru> They're just here to rile you up.
[14:10:05] <Bytram> janrinok: Hi!
[14:10:11] * Bytram keeps reading
[14:10:16] <janrinok> Bytram, hi
[14:10:33] <AzumaHazuki> useless. if the stated goal of a forum is intelligent discussion, deliberately allowing things with NEGATIVE StN ratio is counterproductive at best
[14:10:41] <janrinok> so come on, AZ give us another suggestion - workable this time please
[14:10:48] <boru> Sure, I agree on that score.
[14:11:05] <AzumaHazuki> setting ACs to -1 by default, reading level to 2 by default, etc isn't workable? sounds easy enough
[14:11:25] <AzumaHazuki> how about implementing a blocking feature? yes, it would silo people off from one another, but we're ALREADY basically /pol/ with some STEM topics
[14:11:35] <janrinok> who decides what is noise? Your definition might not be everybody else's. So you have the tools to see what you want to see. Why not just use them?
[14:11:46] <AzumaHazuki> ...for the third time, i already do
[14:11:51] <AzumaHazuki> that does not solve the problem
[14:12:01] <AzumaHazuki> any more than hiding under a blanket will make the outside world stop existing
[14:12:11] <AzumaHazuki> if you're to weak and too tired to be an editor, step down
[14:12:14] <janrinok> So, no publishing of anything other than pure STEM - I have been advocating that since day 1 of this site!
[14:12:27] <AzumaHazuki> well lah-dee-fucking-dah!
[14:13:01] <boru> The site does have a nexus though, right? i.e. you can go to one area of the site to see political stories, whereas informative content goes to another section.
[14:13:07] <Ingar> just ban american politics
[14:13:14] <AzumaHazuki> point remains, janrinok, SN is predicated on a naive and frankly extremely childish idea of what freedom of speech is and means, and how to protect it. NCommander laid out the problems in his post very well
[14:13:21] <janrinok> Az, You know damn well what I have been doing for the last couple of years. This site has been way down on my priority list. And what would stepping down do? There is no limit to the number of editors we can have - we just cannot get enough of them.
[14:13:22] <AzumaHazuki> which seems to have been disapeared.
[14:13:33] <AzumaHazuki> i wonder fuckin' why?
[14:13:40] * Bytram glances at AzumaHazuki moderation history, of the last 100 moderations, I see 0 moderations of EF
[14:13:58] <AzumaHazuki> Bytram, yes, there are even worse people I have to keep an eye on and i like to mod SOME people up now and then
[14:14:42] <AzumaHazuki> you cowards want me to do your dirty work through the mod system, you need to give me the proverbial assload of mod points. otherwise STFU about "hurr hurr uSe TeH mOd SyStEm ThAt'S wHaT iT's ThErE fOr!!!"
[14:14:46] <janrinok> You can filter out all politics stories. You can moderate those comments that include stories in other threads. You can up your viewing threshold to a high enough level to filter out the AC crap.
[14:14:59] <AzumaHazuki> none. of that. solves. the problem.
[14:15:10] <AzumaHazuki> now you're being willfully obtuse.
[14:15:18] <janrinok> You - meaning the community - not you as in your version of what is acceptable.
[14:15:30] <AzumaHazuki> again..."the community" has turned into /pol/
[14:15:34] <Bytram> boru: Agreed. Set a user as a Foe, and then add a karma modifier of -6, and a threshold of 0 and their comments should not display to you
[14:15:48] <AzumaHazuki> i already do this. it does not solve the underlying problem
[14:16:17] <Ingar> is there a way to filter bold out of IRC messages ?
[14:16:28] <boru> Yes, your client can do that usually.
[14:16:28] <janrinok> You rising to the bait on here is part of that problem. You getting into bickering matches with others in the comment is part of that problem.
[14:16:42] <boru> You can also set +c on the channel flags, iirc.
[14:16:48] <AzumaHazuki> janrinok, it is clear you are willfilly ignoring what i've been typing to you
[14:16:52] <boru> That blocks any text modifiers.
[14:16:58] <AzumaHazuki> and i am getting sick to death of it.
[14:17:04] <chromas> janrinok: the problem is those controls only affect what I can see. I want to be able to control what everyone else can see too
[14:17:27] <AzumaHazuki> what angle do i need to turn this at to get it through your skull? do i need a wooden hammer and to knock it in via the earhole?
[14:17:45] <janrinok> no, I am reading it all. But if you want your version of a site please feel free to start one. We are currently discussing other measures, but they mostly boil down to some form of censorship - which most people are against.
[14:18:00] <AzumaHazuki> define "some form of censorship"
[14:18:24] <janrinok> stopping people from expressing a genuinely held point of view
[14:18:28] * Bytram just discovered AzumaHazuki has already taken the steps to remove visibility of EFs comments
[14:18:47] <AzumaHazuki> get the fuck out of my preferences control panel
[14:19:05] <AzumaHazuki> uuugh, that's creepy!
[14:19:46] <janrinok> NO - you just told us to solve the problem. We are looking at what the problem actually is. You know how to filter EFs comments, it seems. So your EF argument is solely based on IRC, I presume.
[14:20:09] * c0lo admires bytram reminding Zumi he has exceptional powers too
[14:20:10] <AzumaHazuki> are you goddamn blind? I've been saying over and over that this is a community issue, that the community at large has become 4chan!
[14:20:27] <AzumaHazuki> and remember, and this is a point i've been making for years, the fewest up-front restrictions does NOT necessarily entail the most freedom for the most people. this is a classic tragedy of the commons. you are double my age at least, you ought to know better
[14:20:48] <Bytram> One of the things that is absent from this discussion is that people's karma are affected by their moderation.
[14:21:05] * bacterium enters popcorn
[14:21:08] <janrinok> So, what is your actual solution. Come on girl, you are close to saying it.
[14:21:38] <FatPhil> she's said the solution is "burn the place to the ground" about 30 times now.
[14:21:47] <AzumaHazuki> I've already suggested several things, boy. ACs start at -1, view defaults to -2, add a block feature to utterly disable comments from people on your blocklist from ever appearing
[14:22:01] <AzumaHazuki> and, tempbans for posts that are clearly nothing more than racial/religious baiting
[14:22:25] <boru> Personally, I think the user-driven moderation is a broken model. There is nothing to prevent mod bombing. Users, on the other hand, are free to not engage with people they either disagree with, or consider their post to be flat out nonsense. Just not engaging with other users seems to be the simplest and most effective solution, as far as I can see it.
[14:22:28] <janrinok> So ACs are effectively censored - go on, use the word you are trying to avoid
[14:22:33] <Bytram> IIUC, EF is on the verge of being unable to post any comments. His actions DO have a consequences, and they have been accumulating. They are just not yet apparent to the rest of the community.
[14:23:06] <AzumaHazuki> that's not censoring, idiot. people are misusing the privilege of AC posting, and the S/N ratio is incredibly low. it's not useful or performing its purpose. make people enable visibility manually
[14:23:15] <boru> This applies to forums, mailing lists, IRC, NNTP, whatever.
[14:23:23] <AzumaHazuki> with a warning that, frankly, most AC posts have been shit and if you want to roll around in shit you make the conscious decision to
[14:23:29] <Bytram> boru++
[14:23:29] <Bender> karma - boru: 51
[14:23:44] <boru> I would prefer that other people are not responsible for what I can see and hear. I can make the best judgement of what I consider to be acceptable.
[14:24:02] <janrinok> Burning the site down will not solve the problem, it will simply mean that there is no site. If you (yes YOU) change your thresholds you do not see ACs until they accumulate enough points. Changing the starting level does not change that fact.
[14:24:17] <AzumaHazuki> janrinok, your questions are not helping. the way you present them is disingenuous and dishonest, and we all know your real agenda: not to change anything
[14:24:32] <AzumaHazuki> don't ask for a solution, then shit on it, then ask why someone hasn't given you a solution
[14:24:47] <AzumaHazuki> the only solution you want is for me to shut up. in other words...to be censored, if only by the self
[14:24:48] <janrinok> I want this site to be exactly what NC has stated and to be the site we created.
[14:25:08] <bacterium> i'd like to hear from aristarchus now!
[14:25:11] <janrinok> You haven't given me any solution that does not curtail what people can say, have you!
[14:25:16] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, and i want a million tax free dollars. what the fuck are you doing to MAKE it what NCommander wanted? Is it even possible to?
[14:25:21] -!- Ethanol-fueled [Ethanol-fueled!~44694a66@hz65-502-14-747.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #soylent
[14:25:29] <c0lo> Dying slowly by NC own admission, yes.
[14:25:30] <AzumaHazuki> i'll let this speak for itself :)
[14:25:30] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki: If you find ACs to be so objectionable, I suggest adding them, as a Foe
[14:25:43] <janrinok> Others might want to see what ACs do say, even if only a few of those comments are worth reading. Your solution is to stop them all.
[14:26:08] <Ingar> people post AC for all kionds of reasons, trash posts is only one of them
[14:26:10] <AzumaHazuki> no, my solution is to default it to less visible and let people know they can turn it on, but they're effectively asking to drink from the sewer pipe
[14:26:12] <boru> I didn't realise you could add ACs as foe. That's neat.
[14:26:15] <AzumaHazuki> me either
[14:26:18] <AzumaHazuki> i may just do that
[14:26:27] <AzumaHazuki> but, again..this does not solve the underlying problem
[14:26:46] <janrinok> less visible is a matter of YOUR threshold - you want to make it less visible for everyone based on what you want to see.
[14:27:07] <FatPhil> Anonymous Modifier (modifier assigned to anonymous posts)
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[14:27:21] <FatPhil> -6 to +6
[14:27:23] * Bytram reads the site with zero filters and at -1. I've seen some gems amid the crud, and mod them up. Ditto for what I perceive to be moderation errors.
[14:27:41] <AzumaHazuki> okay Bytram if you wanna go scuba diving in the septic tank for corn kernels that's your choice
[14:27:53] <boru> I think that is the crux of it.
[14:27:57] <boru> Filtering should be down to the user.
[14:28:04] <Bytram> "It is easier to put slippers on my feet that it is to try and carpet the world."
[14:28:10] <Ingar> boru: also, +c sems to be an actualy channel mode, sets a fitler for everyone on the channel (needs ops too)
[14:28:18] <boru> Your corn kernels might be Bytram's truffles.
[14:28:23] <Ethanol-fueled_> The problem I see with hate mods is that there's going to be the same problem with the spam mods.
[14:28:23] <janrinok> You have a simplistic view of a solution - I am trying to meet the aims that this site began with, one of which was that people were free to express their views. You don't have to read them, but you want the right to stop them from even speaking.
[14:28:29] <AzumaHazuki> boru, sure, but most people aren;t coprophiliacs
[14:28:48] <AzumaHazuki> janrinok, has it ever occurred to you that the starting conditions may have been ill-defined, or even incoherent?
[14:28:51] <Ethanol-fueled_> they're gonna require mod/admin adjudication.
[14:29:01] <AzumaHazuki> hate mods are stupid
[14:29:04] <boru> Ingar; yeah, I said +c is a channel flag. But your client will almost certainly expose options for text formatting.
[14:29:32] <AzumaHazuki> the entire point of having a mod system anyway is so that crap gets modded down. if the community is /pol/, guess what, they ain't gonna get downmodded no matter what the options are
[14:29:37] <boru> AzumaHazuki; indeed, most people are not. However, their shite tolerance is variable. Ergo, I don't think one size fits all.
[14:29:55] -!- Ethanol-fueled has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[14:30:05] <AzumaHazuki> janrinok, SN is immunocompromised and was by design. do you understand this? the community-driven safeguards are not working
[14:30:07] <Ethanol-fueled_> Hahahah, fucker ethanol
[14:30:10] <bacterium> per-user admin mod flag, when set, a censored version of the site is shown, where admins erased spam?
[14:30:34] <requerdanos> Ethanol is a poor fuel, low in energy content, expensive energy-wise to produce
[14:30:46] <janrinok> tag it as spam and we do erase it, but we are not on site 24 hours a day.
[14:30:50] <boru> Actually, that is false.
[14:30:54] <chromas> well that's just like your opinion man
[14:30:56] <bacterium> i just got denatured alcohol for burning :)
[14:30:59] <AzumaHazuki> i am getting really sick of trying to get you to comprehend this, especially when i KNOW you do and are being willfully spitefully thickheaded. this is trolling itself, and it's being done by admin staff and editors
[14:31:27] <boru> Alcohols were a primary mixer for rocket fuel for decades, but better alternatives with better impulse thrust were discovered.
[14:31:29] <requerdanos> it's not false so much as a bit of offhand trolling. A way for me to say hi.
[14:32:10] <FatPhil> ethanol's a poor fuel, as people would rather drink it than put it in their tanks.
[14:32:23] <AzumaHazuki> know something, janrinok? your behavior is more damning than any amount of trollish idiocy. that can be cleaned up. you are not letting it be cleaned up. this means the trolls are partly your fault
[14:32:24] <bacterium> russians do both
[14:32:42] <requerdanos> yeah, i was going to say, no reason not to do both things
[14:32:55] <janrinok> so perhaps we just don't agree with your idea of a solution? Coming back on here to rant and rave about it again tomorrow won't change anything. You have some people you automatically start arguing with - Buzz, Runaway etc. And they probably love winding you up and watching you go...
[14:32:58] <Ethanol-fueled_> Azuma, blaming people is bitchy.
[14:33:08] <AzumaHazuki> but true
[14:33:22] <AzumaHazuki> if someone's telling the truth, the tone doesn't make it less true. also eat my ass.
[14:33:22] <Bytram> people are social creatures and tend to follow societal norms. If people see others getting negative consequences for their behavior, they are incentavized to change their own. That's a big shade of gray, yes, but like turning a tanker, it does add up and things do change.
[14:33:48] <Ethanol-fueled_> Bytram, social norms go out the window over the internet.
[14:33:54] <AzumaHazuki> Bytram, which brings me to my other point: when the community is basically /pol/, there are effectively no repurcussions for negative behavior.
[14:34:06] <AzumaHazuki> and, again, one woman with 10 mod points can't clean the place up alone
[14:34:19] <Ethanol-fueled_> Lots of people think that the internet is real-life. This is why real-life has turned into clown world.
[14:34:38] <c0lo> Bytram, how does "getting negative consequences for their behavior, they are incentavized to change their own" work in Eth-Fueled case?
[14:34:40] <AzumaHazuki> ...and i would be very very careful, if i were you, about advocating for people to target specific users and modbomb them.
[14:34:47] <janrinok> but you can stop seeing the comments, Az. Then they won't offend you quite so much.
[14:35:06] <AzumaHazuki> ...you deliberately miss the point. again
[14:35:17] <AzumaHazuki> SN as it is now is not fit for purpose
[14:35:31] <boru> I would question who decides what is negative behaviour; I still posit that this decision is down to a particular user. If they want the full blast of all of the nosnense and obnoxious posts, so be it, else give them the tools to filter that out. So far as I can see, both the site and IRC offer those features.
[14:36:09] <Bytram> Ethanol-fueled_: What is your current karma?
[14:36:11] <janrinok> Not fit for what you or I would like it to be. But I cannot dictate what other people want to say.
[14:36:13] <Ethanol-fueled_> As a kid, my momma and poppa told me that TV isn't real-life and shouldn't be treated as such.
[14:36:32] <Ethanol-fueled_> Bytram: -NaN
[14:36:40] <c0lo> I find janrinok suggestion compelling... I mean, a compeling reasons for common people to try and leave S/N shortly.
[14:36:40] <AzumaHazuki> make them defaults. do you understand why? because, in the same way IRC is supposedly the "landing page" for SN and we can't have shock-horror-gasp-pearlclutch pErSoNaL aTtAcKs, what the FUCK impression do you think it gives when topics are full of loonie AC nonsense?
[14:36:42] <AzumaHazuki> be consistent!
[14:37:18] <janrinok> but you are doing it anyway on this channel, so why should anyone else behave?
[14:37:23] <boru> Hmm, I see your point. I still think it should be an opt-in feature, though. Users will find their own watermark.
[14:37:25] <c0lo> Like, why the heck should they need to learn tweaking preferences to avoid EF shit?
[14:37:32] <AzumaHazuki> because 1) fuck you you hypocrite and 2) the system clearly is not working
[14:37:32] <Bytram> janrinok++
[14:37:32] <Bender> karma - janrinok: 73
[14:37:39] <AzumaHazuki> janrinok--
[14:37:39] <Bender> karma - janrinok: 72
[14:37:57] <janrinok> oh, the pain. I've lost some karma....
[14:38:12] <AzumaHazuki> what does it even mean if anyone can just ++ or --?
[14:38:23] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki: and your lashing out and trying to bludgeon others into how YOU think they should behave is helping?
[14:38:27] <Ethanol-fueled_> They already banned me...no, wait, that's not fair...I already banned myself from the discussions, assholes! You got what you wanted.
[14:38:29] <janrinok> nothing - that was a sarcastic comment.
[14:38:47] <AzumaHazuki> Bytram: tone trolling has replaced patriotism as the last refuge of the scoundrel
[14:38:50] <Ethanol-fueled_> Cheezus Christ
[14:38:53] <boru> Indeed. I demand other unary operators be supported e.g. <<= or &=
[14:39:08] <janrinok> boru++
[14:39:08] <Bender> karma - boru: 52
[14:39:25] <requerdanos> plus, using ethanol for fuel takes food crops out of hungry mouths. And it causes rust.
[14:39:31] <c0lo> boru >>> 1
[14:39:35] <boru> I honestly don't know how I've acquired so much karma. It must mostly happen whilst I'm AFK.
[14:39:46] <boru> Get out of here with that poothon nonsense!
[14:39:56] <bacterium> plus++
[14:39:56] <Bender> karma - plus: 2
[14:40:03] <FatPhil> but they're binary operators!
[14:40:07] <AzumaHazuki> besides which, I have proof that at least one editor is deliberately targeting one user for silencing by reducing his karma. in other words, censorship
[14:40:07] <c0lo> minusminus++
[14:40:07] <Bender> karma - minusminus: 1
[14:40:09] <boru> If it's not in operator(7), I don't want to know about it!
[14:40:15] <janrinok> perhaps that is the reason....? I don't get insulted anywhere near as much when I'm not here
[14:40:20] <AzumaHazuki> so the hypocrisy stinks to high heaven
[14:40:45] <janrinok> what evidence?
[14:40:46] <bacterium> is ac posting really a privelege?
[14:40:48] <AzumaHazuki> a PM log
[14:41:04] <AzumaHazuki> so don't give me this shit about OHES NOES WE DON'T DOES TEH CENSURRR
[14:41:20] <janrinok> not been on here for quite a while so I might have missed that
[14:41:21] <boru> FatPhil++ (for pointing out my mistype)
[14:41:21] <Bender> karma - fatphil: 120
[14:41:28] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki: If editors had unlimited mod points (for example), what's to stop me from going on a rampage and downmoding all your comments? The underlying presumption seems to be that the "super-moderators" would behave as YOU want them to. And we just might, but then again... so the system needs to be set up so there is the least intervention from a high-powered user who could go rogue.
[14:41:38] <AzumaHazuki> you wouldn't have seen it since it's in a log of a PM between me and said editor
[14:42:29] <Ethanol-fueled_> Bytram, it doesn't even have to reach that level. For example, look at the moderation of more mainstream fora:
[14:42:40] <janrinok> well then, that doesn't look like any evidence that I could have used to clean something up, but as I have said, I've not been here for a while
[14:43:09] <Ethanol-fueled_> Discussions of COVID have lots of censored posts because the censors use the excuse of "distributing false medical advice"
[14:43:32] <FatPhil> but those are robotic primarily
[14:44:07] <c0lo> what are robotic? the posts or the mods?
[14:44:20] <Ethanol-fueled_> Now let's talk racism. Ching CHong Chang, okay, that's offensive. But fora have already used criticism of Chinese infiltration of American academia as being "racist"
[14:44:43] <FatPhil> the flagging/censorring/removing/not-letting-you-post-in-the-first-place-ing
[14:45:16] <boru> Robotic moderation could help e.g. word filters which tag a post. Then, based on the tags, users can set whether or not they want to see them e.g. "I love racism! Let me see all of these posts!" or "I hate reptilian matrix conspiracies! I don't want to see these posts!"
[14:45:16] <Ethanol-fueled_> FatPhil, I believe they are calling it something like "context management" nowadays.
[14:45:24] <c0lo> Chinese infiltration? The colleges where happy to get their money, they even advertied in China.
[14:45:59] <Ethanol-fueled_> Well, colo, somebody was likely banned from a forum pointing that out. Racism was the reason why they were censured.
[14:46:19] <AzumaHazuki> again: i have evidence of an editor specifically targeting a user for modbombing to the point of being unable to post. this is censorship, isn't it? surely, in its intent?
[14:46:47] <AzumaHazuki> whereas I'm not advocating for censorship so much as encouraging people to register, so they can consistently post and be seen under a pseudonymous nick. this cuts down on dishonest sockpuppeting
[14:47:19] <c0lo> If I'd be banned for that, the forum is not for me.
[14:47:21] <chromas> our main sockpuppet engineer has many registered accounts
[14:48:03] <Ethanol-fueled_> chromas, can you post my old dick pics? I'm feeling nostalgic 'n' sheeit.
[14:48:05] <bacterium> who's that, 3chromas?
[14:48:36] <chromas> Ethanol-fueled_: unfortunately I don't have a copy, however I did check the logs for the url once and I'm pretty sure they've since been deleted
[14:49:12] <AzumaHazuki> Ethanol-fueled_, there is a difference between "China is infiltrating US colleges and here's the proof, follow the money" and "hurr hurr niggernigger khazar jew rats poisoning ur food!"
[14:49:14] <Ethanol-fueled_> aw shucks. thanks anyway, chromas.
[14:49:22] <progo> Ethanol-fueled_: you want my dick pics?
[14:49:31] <AzumaHazuki> if you don't see it, well, you're part of the problem. but we all know that since that last one is basically all you ever goddamn post
[14:49:31] <boru> Get a room, lovebirds.
[14:49:53] <Ethanol-fueled_> Azuma, I agree. But in the discussion forums, mods have gone nuts.
[14:49:57] <janrinok> Az, all that happens if we do that is that we have a flood of sockpuppets and false accounts. But the bad comments are not all being made by ACs. I can find examples of you, EF, Runaway and others posting insults and arguing crap under your usernames.
[14:50:18] <Ethanol-fueled_> You can't mod down somebody who questions vaccination as long as they are polite and raise a point.
[14:50:22] <AzumaHazuki> janrinok, there is a difference again because "you're a fucking moron and here's why" vs, again, the shit eth posts
[14:50:36] <chromas> but eth is registered
[14:50:38] <AzumaHazuki> and if YOU can't see that, YOU are part of the problem
[14:50:46] <Ethanol-fueled_> You cant mod down somebody who disagrees with Antifa and BLM shitbags burning their town down.
[14:50:59] <Ethanol-fueled_> (no thanks progo)
[14:50:59] <AzumaHazuki> ohhh boy, here he goes again
[14:51:33] <janrinok> If only it stopped at that, Az.
[14:51:59] <AzumaHazuki> janrinok, i swear to Madokami if you start tone-trolling me again the last tiny shred of respect i have for you is going to go up in smoke
[14:52:10] <AzumaHazuki> you are hanging by a thread
[14:52:16] <chromas> on a more interesting note, I see that Factorio has animated trees now
[14:52:44] <janrinok> But that is a digression. I asked for your solutions and you have given them. What the hell is 'tone-trolling'. I'm a Brit using English, not American.
[14:53:06] <AzumaHazuki> tone trolling is when you basically go "Waaaaah, mommy, she's meeeeeeeean! So I'm gonna ignore all her arguments and pretend I won!"
[14:53:27] <AzumaHazuki> it's a form of shooting the messenger
[14:54:03] <c0lo> Tone-trolling is the way Americans got a glimpse of what sarcasm is made of.
[14:54:13] <janrinok> Why don't you say that then? And I am not doing either of those things.
[14:54:20] <AzumaHazuki> but you are, janrinok
[14:54:49] <AzumaHazuki> "I can find examples of you, EF, Runaway and others posting insults and arguing crap under your usernames." An insult by itself is useless, true, but i give insults WITH arguments
[14:54:52] <AzumaHazuki> because i'm generous like that
[14:54:54] <janrinok> have you got a solution that does not require us to restrict discussion to what you deem is acceptable?
[14:55:17] <AzumaHazuki> again...the purpose of making people basically have to choose to see ACs isn't to restrict discussion but to foster it
[14:55:22] <AzumaHazuki> under single, honest accounts
[14:55:26] <FatPhil> how the heck is that tone trolling - it doesn't match any part of your definition.
[14:55:55] <AzumaHazuki> FatPhil: because of the implication that I only post insults, as opposed to argument, or that an insult with an argument negates it
[14:56:01] <Ethanol-fueled_> Azuma, you are totally disengenuous. Your so-called "arguments" are leftist bullshit.
[14:56:04] <Bytram> Crap, I need to be out the door in a few minutes. Wish I could hang around longer!
[14:56:04] <FatPhil> there's no such implication
[14:56:11] <Bytram> laters!
[14:56:17] <janrinok> laters!
[14:56:19] <FatPhil> have a good one
[14:56:21] <AzumaHazuki> no, they aren't, Ethanol-fueled. you, on the other hand, do nothing but vomit noise
[14:56:27] <bacterium> perhaps we could lobby legislators to punish trolls by taking away their internet license
[14:56:37] <janrinok> lol
[14:56:50] <AzumaHazuki> pssh, the legislators got in power partly because of trolling, that'll never happen
[14:57:20] <Ethanol-fueled_> bacterium, does that include giving niggers free license to beat your family up without consequence?
[14:57:46] <Ethanol-fueled_> Or is shitposting online a worse crime than that?
[14:57:56] <AzumaHazuki> see, shit like this is an example of what i mean. that's a complete strawman, has a needless racial slur in it, and has negative signal to noise ratio
[14:58:05] <Ethanol-fueled_> (not a threat, just piquing your curiosity)
[14:58:17] <AzumaHazuki> holy god damn, i didn't think you'd actually provide a real-time example for me
[14:58:22] <bacterium> he knows all your buttons, AzumaHazuki, yeas
[14:58:38] <AzumaHazuki> but, see, that's the kind of thing that defines our community now. we're /pol/
[14:59:02] <Ethanol-fueled_> We are NOT pol
[14:59:09] <bacterium> perhaps all you need AzumaHazuki is to fall in love with a troll, and see things from their pov
[14:59:23] <AzumaHazuki> okay, YOU and some others like you are /pol/, and you are weirdly, r-type prolific
[14:59:31] <bacterium> then you recognize you fell in love with yourself
[14:59:33] <bacterium> or something....
[14:59:34] <Ethanol-fueled_> Myself and 1 or 2 other ACs raise good points and are mod bombed to shit.
[14:59:45] <AzumaHazuki> sorry bacterium but i don't do the asexual reproduction thing
[14:59:51] <janrinok> Az, how do we verify 'honest accounts'? What if somebody uses a disposable email addy? How do we stop people having multiple IDs? What if somebody wants to be a whistleblower so cannot post using their real ID?
[15:00:25] <AzumaHazuki> janrinok, simple: if people are very clearly using a number of registered accounts to sockpuppet and modbomb, we have identifiable account names to take action
[15:00:52] <janrinok> how can you tell if they are accessing the site via TOR. Ban TOR?
[15:00:57] <progo> how do you identify an account as a person?
[15:00:59] <AzumaHazuki> and if you wanna talk whistleblowing just keep pushing me and i'll dump that chatlog. i'd be interested to see everyone's reaction to an outright admission that one of the eds IS trying to censor someone
[15:01:14] * Ethanol-fueled_ notes that Azuma's mods are consistent with sockpuppet patterns
[15:01:40] <AzumaHazuki> Eth, i don't sockpuppet or post AC. unlike you and your kind, i can stand on my own two feet
[15:02:00] <bacterium> according to aristarchus, the site is already censored to shit
[15:02:06] <Ethanol-fueled_> People asking honest questions are modded into hell.
[15:02:19] <Ethanol-fueled_> They just happen to have your M.O. Azuma.
[15:02:27] <janrinok> we already spend too much time trying to police the false accounts that appear regularly. Repeatedly checking that email addresses are current would require a member of staff full time - are you offering to do that job?
[15:02:34] <Ethanol-fueled_> The moderators, of course.
[15:02:39] <AzumaHazuki> have you considered that you're getting modded down because a lot of people think you're full of shit?
[15:02:51] <AzumaHazuki> i only post from my account, from one IP address, and the admins can verify that
[15:03:03] <AzumaHazuki> i have nothing to hide, and if you want, i give you permission to have them show you my mod history
[15:03:13] <Ethanol-fueled_> Not just me, Azuma. All those polite people whom you also think are full of shit, people who don't deserve to be modded down.
[15:03:31] <AzumaHazuki> Ethanol-fueled_, civility is only one part of the equation. i don't care for polite, i care for correct
[15:03:42] <AzumaHazuki> and you of all people are the last one who has any right to be complaining about incivility
[15:03:47] <janrinok> bacterium, ari is miffed that we don't accept much of what he submits, but I have written many many times why we reject them and he simply refuses to comply with the site rules - which incidentally Az things we do not enforce.
[15:03:49] <Ethanol-fueled_> Yeah, I'm correct too. See how easy that was?
[15:03:59] <AzumaHazuki> except reality bears me out and not you
[15:04:07] <Ethanol-fueled_> Suuuure it does.
[15:04:25] <AzumaHazuki> i have nothing to hide and never did. ask the admins about me. even the ones who hate me and whom i hate have admitted it, i'm a straight shooter
[15:04:39] <janrinok> Az, you cannot say hand on heart that you have never posted as AC. And don't reply too hastily...
[15:04:48] <Ethanol-fueled_> This temporary political tide will go bye bye in 1-3 years and we'll see how "correct" you are in retrospect.
[15:04:52] <AzumaHazuki> when I have, I reply to it logged in with "shit that was me" or similar
[15:05:22] <janrinok> so you HAVE posted as AC. Well imagine if we enforced the honest IDs rule then.
[15:05:41] <AzumaHazuki> I did actually make two other accounts at one point, considering using them to sock, but then decided i'd rather keep a clean conscience. Akemi Homura and Himemiya Chikane, and if you know your yuri you know why I'd chose those
[15:06:57] <janrinok> I don't - my preferred art form is music, but you have told me before and I have forgotten so it is not important to me. That is meaning no disrespect to you in choosing that name...
[15:07:07] <Ethanol-fueled_> Isn't yuri a 4chan thing? Don't we hate 4chan or something?
[15:07:29] <AzumaHazuki> ...it's no more a 4chan thing than, for example, computer hardware is an Anandtech thing
[15:08:08] <AzumaHazuki> yuri just means WLW content, mostly non-pornographic though there's some of that too. it's literally "lily" and was chosen to contrast "bara" (rose) for gay men as a group ("barazoku")
[15:08:50] * janrinok realises why he didn't bother remembering it now ....
[15:09:00] <Ethanol-fueled_> Did you just say "Baizou?"
[15:09:22] <AzumaHazuki> there is this very strange recurring character design for a certain kind of lesbian to be tall, long/dark haired, kind of scary, and involved in time-travel or serial-reincarnation plots. those two plus this avatar are archetypical examples
[15:09:43] <AzumaHazuki> i don't know how or why but that's almost a cliche at this point
[15:09:50] <progo> I hate temporal mechanics
[15:10:34] <AzumaHazuki> it can be hard to follow, but you get used to it after a while
[15:10:38] <Ethanol-fueled_> Do you all know what a shittin' table is?
[15:10:57] <AzumaHazuki> any table you happen to be sitting near about 3 hours after lunch?
[15:10:57] <Ethanol-fueled_> It's a glass coffee table the Germans use to be shat on, and yet not be shat on.
[15:11:23] <progo> Ethanol-fueled_: is that a real fetish thing?
[15:11:36] <AzumaHazuki> knowing him? probably. ick.
[15:11:39] * progo consults 4chan
[15:11:58] <Ethanol-fueled_> progo - I don't know. All I do know is that Germans and Japs make the best ones.
[15:12:14] <Ethanol-fueled_> Germans and Japs make the best everything, so that should come as no surprise.
[15:12:50] <Ethanol-fueled_> UGH fuck, my bowels are roiling. I need to leave now, so that I can make a baby Obama.
[15:13:41] <Ethanol-fueled_> A bit premature, at 6 pounds, but just as good lookin' as his daddy.
[15:15:15] <progo> Urban Dictionary says someone thought of this shit table thing over 10 years ago
[15:15:26] <progo> no need to paste the url here
[15:15:49] <AzumaHazuki> sounds like i stuck that ignore line in just in time, ick
[15:15:54] <chromas> oh yeah, but back then it was called the Microsoft Surface
[15:16:11] <progo> oh AzumaHazuki is ignoring Ethanol-fueled_ ? should get quieter for a while
[15:16:39] <c0lo> "Repeatedly checking that email addresses are current" ummm... why?
[15:17:00] <c0lo> Isn't golang good enough for this?
[15:17:27] <pinchy> omg its jiggaboo-fueled in da house
[15:17:59] <c0lo> I mean, you can write a tool outside the slashcode, riding on top of the user table.
[15:18:09] <AzumaHazuki> what a shitshow this place has turned into
[15:18:31] -!- Ethanol-fueled_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[15:18:44] <c0lo> AzumaHazuki: s/place/world/
[15:18:44] <SedBot> <c0lo> <AzumaHazuki> what a shitshow this world has turned into
[15:19:08] <c0lo> S/N just reflects it.
[15:20:22] <AzumaHazuki> waste of bloody time then. NCommander ought to just shut it down
[15:21:16] <boru> Out of curiosity, if you think that is an acceptable outcome, why stick around?
[15:21:24] <c0lo> NC will have the surprise of his life if he thinks other freeze peach places are cleaner. It's either disinfected or loo.
[15:21:32] <boru> It seems like that just causes you more stress.
[15:21:34] <progo> boru++
[15:21:34] <Bender> karma - boru: 53
[15:21:55] <boru> I'm not trying to cause an argument.
[15:21:55] <c0lo> boru, investment.
[15:21:58] <boru> So please, no karma.
[15:23:06] <c0lo> Used by conmen since immemorial times. Get you invested a bit, take you to the cleaners after.
[15:23:22] <boru> Investment be damned, I'd say. If the site is shut down, the cumulative effect from one's perspective is the same as if you had moved on.
[15:23:27] <AzumaHazuki> boru: at this point, because I want to see it happen with my own two eyes
[15:24:06] <c0lo> See also "double down"
[15:24:11] <AzumaHazuki> understand, i won't be cheering or laughing. i'll be sad it came to this. but some things get too fucked up to salvage and the only moral thing, let alone merciful thing, is to pull the plug
[15:24:32] <boru> Fair enough.
[15:25:19] <FatPhil> Sounds like "I couldn't have what I wanted, so I want to make sure no-one's getting what they wanted either".
[15:25:24] <chromas> "double down" aka Windows 10
[15:25:31] <c0lo> AzumaHazuki, if I'm right and S/N is a reflection of the society, then no amount of technological tricks are gonna help. They'll be gamed one by one.
[15:25:33] <FatPhil> Windows 20 is doubling down
[15:25:41] <chromas> aka the Broken Windows 95 Fallacy
[15:25:53] <AzumaHazuki> c0lo, that is my point
[15:26:09] <AzumaHazuki> and FatPhil, that's not the case and a cordial, respectful "screw you" for going there
[15:26:22] <chromas> does that mean we should pull the plug on society?
[15:26:44] <c0lo> There's no Windows 20. Double down Windows 10 is Windows 100.
[15:26:45] <FatPhil> I can't tell the difference between what you've said and how I paraphrased it.
[15:27:12] <progo> I agree it sounds to me like "no one else should have it because I hate what it's become"
[15:28:49] <c0lo> AzumaHazuki, then it follows that any other place will be either boring or festering. If S/N becomes boring, where will you go?
[15:29:06] <AzumaHazuki> i like boring, for a given definition of boring
[15:29:20] <AzumaHazuki> Ars's forums seem to do well enough
[15:29:42] * c0lo trying to push AzumaHazuki think of the future. Just don't, Zumi, you have enough problems to solve in the present
[15:30:18] <boru> Well, I will give you another perspective; say you create a community about some topic because you and a group of others are enthusiasts and want a community for enthusiasts. People with a casual interest in the topic claim they are being excluded, so you allow them to join your community. Soon, they turn the community into something else other than the original vision that the enthusiasts had, and they
[15:30:24] <boru> want to leave and start again, but the same people turn it into the communities they've come from. In this scenario, in which I see parallels here, I can appreciate the frustration.
[15:30:30] <progo> this reminds me of a plot in a Northern Exposure episode about the healer hanging around the physician's office for a few days to see if he can learn any tricks. "Your problem [Doctor] is that you're boring." -- a few scenes later -- "You're angry now. That's an improvement! It's not boring."
[15:31:45] <FatPhil> I like boring too, nothing wrong in boring.
[15:32:42] <boru> I think this is the fate for all open communities.
[15:34:39] <AzumaHazuki> define "open community"
[15:34:58] <boru> In this context, an online community where anyone can join.
[15:35:10] <boru> It was a statement in reference to what progo said.
[15:35:55] <boru> AIUI, if you've been around SN since the early days (I haven't), I can understand being frustrated if that has been your experience.
[15:36:13] <AzumaHazuki> that's not necessarily the case though. working community standards can prevent this kind of degeneration
[15:36:44] <bacterium> sn is better now than when it just started, it used to be crickets, now there's a lively discussion on most topics
[15:36:45] <boru> I am inclined to disagree. Like all forms of censorship, they start off with innocent intent, as I positted above.
[15:36:47] <AzumaHazuki> it's the same way that the best way to stop a bully is to beat the shit out of them, and that the best way to stop crime is to make sure punishment is certain, swift, and consistent, NOT brutal
[15:37:00] <progo> successful communities always go through growth phases. norms change, the tone changes. it can be managed but it's impossible to keep everything static
[15:37:28] <AzumaHazuki> the kind of people who shit up forums are basically low-key sadists. you want to stop an infection of that, you make it clear it won't be tolerated right up front
[15:38:21] <FatPhil> I agree with that, there is an intrinsic destructive element
[15:38:51] <boru> I've seen those sorts come and go in completely undmoderated communities. People simply didn't engage with them. The agitators simply got bored, and moved on.
[15:38:54] <bacterium> here's one serious counterpoint to your whole x-pedition, AzumaHazuki: aren't there already like a bajillion moderated general-topic boards? what is the value of turning sn into one?
[15:39:03] <c0lo> AzumaHazuki, there's another way to increase the StN ratio
[15:39:17] <AzumaHazuki> c0lo, lay it on me
[15:39:31] <chromas> Submit better stories
[15:39:40] <c0lo> Simple. Increase the signal
[15:40:02] <boru> Or filter the noise.
[15:40:04] <bacterium> c0lo: but noise is proportional to the signal, they are not independent
[15:40:06] <FatPhil> and don't encourage noise
[15:40:47] <c0lo> The best you can hope is the prop constant be subunitary.
[15:40:59] <AzumaHazuki> c0lo, i already did all i could. you've seen me submit STEM. you've seen me downmod the deserving and upmod insightful comments, even ACs
[15:41:11] <AzumaHazuki> there is nothing more i can do and frankly i feel i'm being played for a fool
[15:41:28] <c0lo> boru, filter the noise gets you nowhere. You tried it already with Zumi.
[15:41:29] <progo> I always wished communities like Soylent News and anything running Mastodon or Pleroma supported clients like Thunderbird where you can do all kinds of end-user-controlled filtering and tagging. "oh this thread is full of $user. I'll skip it."
[15:41:53] <c0lo> Zumi, I'm dead serious.
[15:41:54] <AzumaHazuki> let us prevail on NCommander to pull the plug. there is no redemption for SN as things stand, and the admin team clearly will not change their ways
[15:41:57] <AzumaHazuki> it would be a mercy kill
[15:42:01] <bacterium> enter bayesian censor!!!
[15:42:04] <progo> Mastodon and Pleroma clients are all garbage. "we've implemented the API. the client is complete." no it's not
[15:42:24] <chromas> there once was an effort to integrate nntp into sn
[15:42:41] <chromas> Asky Soylent: Why do people douple tap their eggs to crack them?
[15:42:43] <boru> Heh, there was a browser plugin called Stupidfilter some time ago, which did just that; applied Bayesian filtering to thread posts. I wonder what happened to it.
[15:43:37] <boru> Well, to be fair, NNTP wouldn't offer much more than the site currently offers with respect to discussions.
[15:43:40] <chromas> probably nuked by webextensions
[15:44:00] <bacterium> chromas: it creates two distinct, non-parallel fracture faults
[15:44:02] <chromas> but many an nntp client does have user-side filtering tools
[15:44:15] <boru> Yes, of course.
[15:44:20] <chromas> by tapping twice in the same spot?
[15:44:21] <progo> I've gotta make a fediverse-nntp bridge
[15:44:26] <AzumaHazuki> what i don't get is, why can't SN just implement an Ignore List feature? Then everyone can just drop in whoever they want and be done with it
[15:44:33] <AzumaHazuki> should be an option to ignore ACs too
[15:44:35] <bacterium> who does it in the same spot? fools....
[15:44:44] <boru> I really must resurrect my INN install.
[15:45:02] <boru> That had pretty high SNR a decade or so ago.
[15:45:07] <progo> I hate 'ignore'. then I see scrambled bits of threads where people are referring to messages my client hid
[15:45:17] <progo> **I don't mind anyone ignoring ME. I hate ignoring other users
[15:45:23] <boru> I'm the same.
[15:45:47] <chromas> sn does have ignore, in the form of foes
[15:46:51] <bacterium> i used to mod my foes at +5, just to see what they say
[15:47:00] <FatPhil> the number of knobs available is huge
[15:47:23] <AzumaHazuki> logically, if someone is on ignore then anything under their posts (any following subthread) gets hidden too
[15:47:26] <AzumaHazuki> this should not be hard
[15:47:43] <bacterium> oh no i mean freaks, i don't have any foes (or keep my cards close to my chest)
[15:47:59] <progo> is there a manual page to explain all that, bacterium? (newbie question)
[15:48:00] <c0lo> How does foes work?
[15:48:03] <boru> That per-story AC ID someone mentioned the other day would make that quite effective, I imagine.
[15:48:11] * c0lo going to wiki to read about
[15:48:21] <boru> But AIUI, it would require a significant amount of work.
[15:48:25] <AzumaHazuki> sounds like a total bitch to code, yeah
[15:48:26] <bacterium> what, progo? i don't get it
[15:48:44] <progo> bacterium: c0lo just implied I should look in the wiki to answer my qeustion
[15:49:50] <chromas> What we need is a gnome 3 style control. take away all knobs and then complain that people making extensions to fix it are ruining the image
[15:49:52] <FatPhil> per-story AC ID = hash(uid.sid) might be a staring point.
[15:50:19] <bacterium> i dunno what c0lo is talking about
[15:50:39] <bacterium> all i know is FatPhil hates me for some reason
[15:50:40] * c0lo just returned from the Wiki and found no explanation on what Foes is for. Mystery
[15:50:45] <progo> bacterium: I wanted to know how to use the 'friend' and 'foe' stuff. c0lo implied there might answers in the wiki. I looked and there isn't
[15:51:03] <bacterium> there's a wiki?????
[15:51:06] <progo> lol
[15:51:14] <bacterium> this ste never stops surprising me
[15:51:20] <progo> yes, but it's not a manual for slashcode by soylent
[15:51:22] <bacterium> s/ste/site/
[15:51:22] <SedBot> <bacterium> this site never stops surprising me
[15:52:00] <c0lo> It *is* a Wiki. The relevant content is missing.
[15:52:30] <boru> The wiki TO's for me, actually. Same as the URL shortener.
[15:52:54] <boru> Are VPNs range banned for those hosts or some such?
[15:55:32] <c0lo> "I have a question that is not answered in this FAQ. What should I do?" Ummm... what Foe does?
[15:56:39] <c0lo> #tell
[15:56:39] <MrPlow> #tell <nick> <message>
[15:56:46] <FatPhil> "foe", like "friend", is just a label you can apply to other users. you can then give posts by people with such labels either a boost or a reduction in score. That's all.
[15:56:48] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Using Exoplanets as Dark Matter Detectors - https://sylnt.us - shedding-light-on-dark-matter
[15:57:11] <boru> FWIW, you can also use memoserv rather than #tell
[15:57:19] <boru> /msg memoserv help
[15:57:23] <bacterium> you can mark people as foes, c0lo, so that they see how you feel when they examine their Freaks tab
[15:57:31] <bacterium> it's a form of malice signaling
[15:57:42] <FatPhil> I use "foe" to give a -4 boost. That means I see only the very highest uprated posts.
[15:57:45] <c0lo> FatPhil, there are a bit more to it. I get notifications when a friend posts a journal.
[15:58:13] <FatPhil> yup, that too.
[15:58:32] <c0lo> #tell bytram can you please share with my the test cases for the Foe functionality?
[15:58:32] <MrPlow> Okay, I'll tell them next time I see them.
[15:58:46] <FatPhil> but you were talking about foes, and there's no journal-related features regarding foes.
[15:59:14] <progo> FatPhil: thanks
[15:59:27] <chromas> wiki's loading for me
[16:00:20] <c0lo> Is Foe ≈ ignore the fucker ?
[16:00:21] <chromas> though executing a search did return a can't connect error, that's SOP for Firefox. A reload fixed it
[16:01:56] <boru> On an unrelated note, it really doesn't seem that Bill Gates is on a mission to do as much evil as possible before he dies.
[16:02:37] <boru> This opposition to open vaccines is ridiculous. So much for being a "philanthropist".
[16:04:20] <FatPhil> c0lo: if you set foe modifier to -6, then posts will always have a -ve score, and you can set your thresholds to filter out such posts.
[16:05:30] <FatPhil> boru - "doesn't" or "does"?
[16:05:57] <boru> Err, does. It's late in the day; my brain is a bit fried.
[16:06:15] <chromas> "doesn't". he's only doing some amount of evil, but not as much as possible
[16:06:22] <boru> I think I'll go and do some gardening in the sun.
[16:07:35] <FatPhil> the game-theoretically optimal amound of evil
[16:09:44] <FatPhil> I've only seen snippets of a transcript of the Gates interview, and it certainly didn't make him look good, but I'd need more context to know if he's lost the plot completely.
[16:17:09] <boru> I would say his purchasing of large amounts of farmland in the USA is ominous, also.
[16:17:16] <boru> I definitely think he's up to no good.
[16:17:42] <progo> the farmland thing is just self-preservation, hedging farm land (actual asset) against a stock market crash
[16:17:59] <boru> You reckon?
[16:18:08] <boru> Seems plausible.
[16:18:09] <progo> ah reckon
[16:20:00] <bacterium> he's gonna plant the seeds of inequity, and then harvest the oppression blossoms
[16:22:14] <boru> Probably gives him something to do after he blocks out the Sun this decade.
[16:22:42] <progo> no need to block out the sun, for now. it's gone cold
[16:22:53] <bacterium> it's ok, boru, because musk will illuminate the entire globe with flashy satellites
[16:22:59] <bacterium> night and day
[16:23:02] <progo> sunspots will be almost gone for a couple of decades
[16:23:18] <boru> And by then, he should see if he has out-CRISPR/CAS9'd CRISPR/CAS9 with these RNA vaccines.
[16:23:27] <progo> north america busted a whole lot of April daily low temps this month
[16:23:35] <Ingar> progo: there's a very nice set of sunspots atm
[16:23:45] <boru> Actually, we're entering a new solar cycle, and just these last few days several ARs have cropped up on the sun.
[16:23:54] <Ingar> I did some solar observations this weekend
[16:23:56] <boru> Yes, I was looking at them with my telescope earlier today.
[16:24:06] <boru> Radio or light?
[16:24:10] <Ingar> light
[16:24:16] <Ingar> a newton with a solar filter
[16:24:22] <boru> White light or Ha/CaK?
[16:24:39] <boru> Ah, white light.
[16:24:42] <Ingar> white light, and a Halpha filter
[16:25:12] <boru> I've got a Herschel prism as well, but I need a power filter for one of my refractors.
[16:25:45] <boru> I can only do white light with my big SCT.
[16:25:58] <boru> I do nighttime NB imaging mostly, though.
[16:26:14] <boru> Ha, [OIII], [NII] and [SII] lines.
[16:26:49] <Ingar> I'd like to do more pictrues, but my mount and tracking are rather crappy
[16:27:00] <Ingar> it's hard to get a decent long exposure, or a decent stack
[16:27:04] <boru> That's with a Petzval quad, but I'll set up the big Cat for imaging before next Winter.
[16:27:22] <boru> Does it have a guide port?
[16:27:30] <boru> Is it a goto newt?
[16:27:42] <Ingar> oh no, it's a cheap second hand manual thing
[16:27:44] <boru> Or is it on a Dob rocker box?
[16:27:53] <boru> Ah, right, so you'd need to manually guide it.
[16:27:58] <boru> That'd be tough.
[16:28:05] <bacterium> i got like a $100 celestron, and i can see disk of mars and bands of jupiter, amateur astronomy has never beed so good :D
[16:28:07] <Ingar> it does have a tracking motor
[16:28:16] <Ingar> but it is not very accurate
[16:28:21] <boru> Indeed, amateur astronomy has come a long, long way.
[16:28:49] <Ingar> yeah, for moon and planets visual and all that it's all fine :)
[16:28:58] <boru> I've got a CPC1100 HD for visual.
[16:29:12] <boru> Takahashi FSQ106 for imaging, and a WO FLT110 for solar.
[16:29:28] <boru> I sold my other WO scopes and a crappy newt I used to have.
[16:29:34] <Ingar> the bitches here are the weather and heavy light pollution
[16:29:43] <boru> NB can help you a lot there.
[16:29:49] <Ingar> it kinda holds me back from investing in better scopes
[16:29:57] <boru> Especially if the light pollution is primarily sodium light pollution.
[16:30:18] <Ingar> boru: what do you mean by NB ?
[16:30:20] <boru> But yeah, you can't beat being out in the sticks, especially for visual astronomy.
[16:30:24] <boru> Narrowband.
[16:30:34] <boru> e.g. emission line filters.
[16:30:52] <Ingar> I do have a light pollution filter
[16:31:00] <Ingar> but it stitll sucks just looking at the sky
[16:31:06] <Ingar> (unaided eye, I mean)
[16:31:06] * boru nods.
[16:31:22] <Ingar> eg finding polaris for alignment
[16:32:33] <Ingar> and damn musk's satellites :p
[16:32:58] <boru> Don't get me started.
[16:33:30] <boru> Even for visual, having this mag 4-5 line of 20-30 satellites crossing your FoV is annoying.
[16:34:37] <boru> I wrote a script to predict when the empheral data will cross an area I'm imaging and then the imaging scheduler will just automatically not expose during that time period.
[16:35:04] <boru> But the problem will only get worse, especially as every Tom, Dick and Harry will start their own megaconstellation now.
[16:35:36] <Ingar> exactly
[16:35:36] <boru> Ephemeral data suggests an intersection with the area, rather.
[16:38:15] <Ingar> for now, I'm just messing around with a rpi4 camera
[16:38:25] <Ingar> maybe one day it will give me decent pictures :D
[16:39:02] -!- tedious has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in]
[16:39:05] <boru> If you hang out on Freenode, we run a channel called ##astroimaging -- feel free to drop by.
[16:39:35] <Ingar> oh nice, I might. I visited ##astronomy a few times, but apparently they're more into cars than anything else
[16:39:50] <boru> It depends on what you want to image, really, as to how effective a given piece of equipment will be: DSOs, solar system, widefield.
[16:40:15] <boru> Tell me about it. I use to be an op in ##astronomy, but I got frustrated with all of the off-topic crap, so a few of us started ##astroimaging
[16:40:54] <boru> It doesn't get much traffic, but it has fairly high SNR.
[16:40:58] <Ingar> I stick to solar system. I figure if I can't get that right, I don't need to be messing around with DSOs
[16:41:15] <boru> Well, wide field is probably the easiest to get started with.
[16:41:38] <boru> You'll be surprised how large some DSOs are in the sky.
[16:41:50] <boru> I mean, M31 is about five full moons across.
[16:42:08] <boru> But in our own galaxy, a lot of the nebula are really quite big in the sky.
[16:42:41] <Ingar> next time I go shooting, I'll drop by
[16:42:58] <boru> You're more than welcome.
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[17:21:52] <chromas> Personally, I don't mind satellites blocking the sky. If I want to see stars, I can just go look at Wikipedia
[17:22:01] <chromas> Assuming they don't delete them for being non-notable
[17:22:55] <boru> That may be the case, however, astronomy is generally about cataloguing and classifying new or transient objects in various wavelengths which is where these megaconstellations interfere.
[17:23:19] <chromas> non-notable
[17:23:49] <boru> You are non-notable.
[17:23:58] <chromas> delete me
[17:24:40] <boru> #delete chromas
[17:24:49] <boru> ~delete chromas
[17:24:59] <boru> Infernal bots!
[17:26:05] <boru> I'm not quite sure how we rank at #3: https://www.visualcapitalist.com
[17:26:08] <boru> That surprised me.
[17:30:18] <progo> north america tax shelter
[17:30:53] <DECbot> Astronomy really should be going to satellite and moon based observatories. The distortion of the star field through the atmosphere is a real variable just like light pollution from the cities. Getting above the megaconstellations is the future to astronomy telescopes.
[17:31:02] <progo> oh wait, GDP? stuffing money somewhere else doesn't MAKE much money, does it?
[17:31:03] <progo> nm
[17:31:23] <chromas> sure it does. interest rates
[17:32:55] <boru> Yes, hurtling towards the Kessler effect is a great idea. Just launch telescopes into space...oh wait, you won't be able to. What an inane perspective.
[17:33:26] <boru> How would you launch the ELT, or even the VLT into space?
[17:33:35] <boru> How would you get the materials to build it on the moon into space?
[17:33:50] <DECbot> SpaceX would love to bid on that...
[17:34:17] <DECbot> there might be some conflict of interest that should be recognized.
[17:34:46] <boru> I see. You're one of those spacex fanboys, not actually informed on the logistics of lauching things into space.
[17:35:09] <DECbot> I think what they are doing is pretty cool... like early NASA
[17:35:36] <boru> Okay.
[17:36:23] <DECbot> Though, cluttering LEO with satellites and blocking observatories then offering to fly future observatory cargos into orbit for profit I think is less then ethical.
[17:38:39] <DECbot> So, the engineering is cool and so is the momentum to develop something new, but the business practices should not be given a pass just because they're using linux and rust or javascript or whatever to shoot rockets into space.
[17:43:57] <chromas> if anything, they should be punished for using javascript
[18:14:46] <DECbot> well, it was in the UI for the astronauts in the Dragon capsule. It wouldn't surprise me if the UI wasn't just NodeRed UI with some javascript in the flows to format and convert some values to human readable units.
[18:16:51] <DECbot> But they should be punished regardless for the touchscreens in the dragon capsule. i think the 1960's and 1980's tactile designs are superior to a touch screen that can be broken when dropped.
[18:18:43] <DECbot> drop a wrench on the apollo control panel and break a gauge--that gauge stops working. Drop a wrench on the dragon control panel and all the gauges stop working.
[18:26:46] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Locusts Swarm Israel's South, Provide "Protein Festival" for Birds -Watch - https://sylnt.us
[18:33:08] <chromas> Replace all terminals with Android tablets and store all your datums in Google Docs
[18:33:16] <chromas> Space solved
[18:33:36] <chromas> s/( )/\1travel\t/
[18:33:37] <SedBot> <chromas> Space traveltsolved
[18:33:42] <chromas> herp
[18:54:49] <progo> "dashboard is shutting down for a rewquired update and reboot." "boot sector not found"
[18:59:16] <chromas> boot sectors are for chumps. boot from cloud
[19:01:54] <bacterium> who's gonna boot teh cloud?
[19:02:08] <bacterium> i think it's about time we gave cloud the boot
[19:21:43] <chromas> [old man yells at cloud]
[19:42:06] <progo> my broken server in the corner of my home office, mocking me, says don't abandon the cloud
[19:42:33] <progo> but I do keep any services for personal data on my PERSONAL cloud VM. encrypted-ish
[19:42:55] <progo> I hate seeing people use Google and Office365 to think and write
[20:05:51] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Locusts Swarm Israel's South, Provide "Protein Festival" for Birds - https://sylnt.us
[20:13:52] <boru> #submit https://www.europarl.europa.eu https://www.theverge.com https://finance.yahoo.com
[20:13:55] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[20:14:20] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[20:22:02] <Runaway1956> quote:
[20:22:10] <Runaway1956> <AzumaHazuki> let us prevail on NCommander to pull the plug. there is no redemption for SN as things stand, and the admin team clearly will not change their ways
[20:22:30] <Runaway1956> I can't understand why anyone sticks up for her - it is her intent to destroy SN
[20:23:10] <Runaway1956> [04/27/21 10:41:54]
[20:26:29] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Locusts Swarm Israel's South, Provide "Protein Festival" for Birds [Updated] - https://sylnt.us
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[20:28:23] <AzumaHazuki> hah. there. i got lxappearance and pcmanfm/libfm to compile against gtk2. hopefully these versions will stay where they are (GTK3 itself is almost dead) and i can use them in perpetuity
[20:38:41] <AzumaHazuki> hmm, let's see about openbox instead of fluxbox though...
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[20:41:31] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[20:41:37] <AzumaHazuki> awesomeness
[20:53:33] <AzumaHazuki> you learn some stuff when you run Gentoo, like "how to run a local repo with some tweaked ebuilds" and "how to see if the program you want is reeeeeeally only gtk3 now or can be convinced to build against gtk2 with some tinkering"
[20:56:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Thousands of Barrels of Suspected Toxic DDT Found Dumped Off the California Coast - https://sylnt.us - taking-a-dump-on-California
[20:59:29] -!- SoyCow8700 [SoyCow8700!~2d84737f@45.132.sgg.jyw] has joined #soylent
[23:35:48] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Linux Kernel Team Rejects University of Minnesota Researchers’ Apology - https://sylnt.us - just-kidding
[23:52:45] <AzumaHazuki> i don't blame them honestly. that wasn't just a shit thing to do, it potentially jeopardized the entire software chain of trust for countless millions of businesses, people, and devices
[23:59:15] <bacterium> i find it unbelievable this was approved by the u, this is indeed experimenting on people without notice or consent