#soylent | Logs for 2021-04-23

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[00:31:48] -!- Ethanol-fueled [Ethanol-fueled!~c69317d3@198.147.ig.olm] has joined #soylent
[00:31:52] <Ethanol-fueled> https://theredalertnews.com
[00:31:54] <systemd> ^ 03Democrat Candidate: Burn Down Wealthy Neighborhoods
[00:32:01] <Ethanol-fueled> Finally, something we can both agree on!
[00:32:38] <Ethanol-fueled> Too bad the feds will scoop her up while looking the other way at all the other thinly and not-so-thinly veiled threats on social media.
[00:33:15] <Ethanol-fueled> Remember, folks. This COVID nonsense, vaccines, masks...it's not about a pandemic, it's about compliance.
[00:33:54] <Ethanol-fueled> And being proud to receive a vaccine as if it were a new pair of Air Jordans, and ratting on neighbors who don't wear masks, is "loving Big Brother."
[00:36:08] <Ethanol-fueled> These are not altruists leading some "great way forward." They are desperate despots who nobody likes.
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[00:45:34] <AzumaHazuki> Ah tell yew h-whut, that boy ain't right
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[01:29:57] <tedious> Crap another rust update. :(
[01:30:07] <tedious> This is going to run all night.
[01:30:11] <AzumaHazuki> do you compile it too?
[01:30:52] <tedious> Yeah gentoo.
[01:31:13] <AzumaHazuki> same here. and yes, "tedious" is a good descriptor for that
[01:31:17] <tedious> It looks like it's required for spidermonkey which is required for xfce.
[01:31:21] <tedious> :)
[01:31:47] * AzumaHazuki wonders why xfce can't use duktape instead
[01:32:00] <tedious> No clue.
[01:36:04] <chromas> xfce uses javascript now?
[01:36:48] <chromas> may as well just install kde then ;)
[01:47:58] <tedious> It looks like it's thunar's fault.
[01:50:29] <chromas> can use set a use flag for it?
[01:53:50] <tedious> Good question.
[01:54:17] <tedious> Guess not.
[01:54:21] <tedious> IUSE="minimal pulseaudio +svg upower"
[01:54:50] <Fnord666> Well crap re the MS password story.
[01:55:10] <Fnord666> Bastards do that every so often when they can't think of anything to write.
[01:55:46] <chromas> Just think of all those clicks we got though :)
[01:56:44] <AzumaHazuki> spidermonkey is a JS framework isn't it?
[01:57:00] <chromas> yeah, brought to you by mozilla
[01:57:10] * chromas just looked up duktape
[01:57:28] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The U.S. Postal Service's Internet Covert Operations Program (iCOP) Monitors Social Media - https://sylnt.us - the-USPS-takes-a-picture-of-every-letter-going-through-its-system,-too
[01:57:56] <Fnord666> At least we probably skewed Ars' stats.
[01:59:14] <chromas> Speaking of pulseaudio, with pipewire I can open Carla and connect any application to any other, and stick all kinds of filter in beween
[02:00:11] <chromas> connect firefox directly into your jack pipeline
[02:03:50] <Fnord666> I've used Virtual Audio Cable on Windows for years to move receiver audio to weather satellite decoding software
[02:09:17] <Fnord666> And JACK (Jack Audio Connection Kit) on Mac OS
[02:38:12] <chromas> but now you can connect pulse, alsa, oss & jack applications together
[04:26:34] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - IBM Clarifies Stance on Developers Working on Open-Source Projects in Off-Hours - https://sylnt.us - if-he's-an-IBM-employee-100%-of-the-time,-what-it-submited-an-updated-timesheet?
[05:42:13] <progo> I need to learn to route audio through filters in Linux so I can position different live broadcasts in a field around my head and listen to multiple streams simultaneously
[05:42:45] <AzumaHazuki> how would that work on the wetware end though?
[05:43:47] <progo> I'd become crazy
[05:43:49] <progo> :^)
[05:45:39] <progo> a few weeks ago I was in a local computer club meeting on Zoom and listening to a live podcast at the same time
[05:45:51] <progo> and without my influence suddenly both events were talking about the same topic
[05:46:18] <progo> not particularly surprising but it was amusing and also harder to listen to
[06:14:44] <AzumaHazuki> ugh i really overdid it...doctor told me i'm likely going to be out for 6 weeks, and wants me to do a bunch of blood tests and some psychotherapy to find out why i keep pushing myself past my limits
[06:15:05] <AzumaHazuki> seems this body's taken more damage than i thought, over a longer timespan than i thought...
[06:31:56] <progo> sorry to hear you're burned out AzumaHazuki. I didn't see what you were talking about before, if it was here. take care of yourself, and I hope you feel better soon
[06:32:35] <AzumaHazuki> well, there's a larger problem here...this means I've lost the popularity contest. whatever happens, i suspect i've been marked to be harassed out of a job
[06:33:00] <progo> yuck
[06:33:30] <AzumaHazuki> it's damned if i do, damned if i don't. staying quiet "makes people uncomfortable." I don't have much small talk, so attempting to talk to people apparently also does. soooo...what the haemorrhaging fuck am i supposed to do exactly?
[06:34:11] <AzumaHazuki> motherfucker, i work harder than any one-point-five GOOD techs and easily two or three of the bad ones you can name. fuck peoples' snowflake "feelings," work is work
[06:35:39] <AzumaHazuki> this...is probably going to make it impossible to get the hell out of this country. i suppose there are worse fates than staying in Buffalo, I like it here, but...this isn't good.
[06:58:21] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Hong Kong Press Faces Aggressive Crackdown - https://sylnt.us - press-under-pressure
[07:30:21] <FatPhil> Fuck - I did accidental -1 moderation: https://soylentnews.org . Complete accident - mouse usage failure.
[07:30:24] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews Comments | Mars Helicopter Ingenuity Flies Higher and Longer on Red Planet in 2nd Flight ( https://soylentnews.org )
[07:33:24] <FatPhil> =yt eLAYttPEjIE
[07:33:24] <systemd> https://youtube.com - best los quad ever | movr5tpr1 fm2004 1800kv t5.1x2.5x3 hqprop fettec aio proto 6s550 95c (02:25; 25,887 views; 👍922 👎10)
[07:51:41] <chromas> #smake FatPhil
[07:51:42] * MrPlow smakes FatPhil upside the head with Madonna's cone bra
[07:52:12] <chromas> Which mod were you going for? ---------------?
[07:54:13] <AzumaHazuki> so that's where that thing went
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[08:25:33] <c0lo> =submit https://markets.businessinsider.com
[08:25:36] <systemd> ✓* Sub-ccess! "08A Digital Race Horse Just Changed Hands for $125,000 as Crypto-mania and the Boom in NFTs Show No Si" (10p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[08:26:12] <c0lo> =submit https://markets.businessinsider.com
[08:26:14] <systemd> ✓* Sub-ccess! "08Nearly 400,000 Users of a Turkish Crypto Exchange Fear Millions of Dollars May be Stolen After its C" (11p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[08:31:36] <AzumaHazuki> this kind of thing makes me think the entire planet's gone nuts. there is no basis to these crypto tokens and NFTs. they are literally nothing but electrons
[08:47:05] <c0lo> =submit https://www.huffpost.com
[08:47:08] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03HUD Revokes Trump Rule Allowing Transgender Discrimination in Homeless Shelters" (1p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[08:50:56] <c0lo> https://www.nbcnews.com
[08:50:57] <systemd> ^ 03New probe confirms Trump officials blocked Puerto Rico from receiving hurricane aid
[08:51:10] <boru> Just you wait until countries introduce their own state cryptocurrency. Then you'll see nuts.
[08:52:00] <boru> If it wasn't enough with fiat currency, things are going to get a lot worse when the central banks coerce governments into regulating cryptocurrency, and introduce their own.
[08:53:00] <boru> They didn't like being caught with their pants down with bitcoin.
[08:55:08] <chromas> Help support our pants by buying into all new ButtCoin
[08:55:09] <c0lo> boru, "If it wasn't enough with fiat currency"... then there wouldn't be enough people with enough national fiat money to create the crypto-valuables hype.
[08:56:17] <boru> But that's the problem. The CBs print more money to increase inflation and cause busts. If people take that money and pump bitcoin and increase wealth, the banks lose their power.
[08:57:04] <boru> That's one of the things that's so great about cryptocurrency, in theory. If everyone did, they'd be declared illegal overnight.
[08:57:32] <boru> Like so many things, it's only okay if the big guys can do it.
[08:57:40] <c0lo> Unfortunately, there are enough people which need those fiat money for survival.
[08:57:54] <boru> Indeed. The system is utterly broken.
[08:58:18] <c0lo> this is why the banks need to continue printing them.
[08:59:34] <boru> I posit it's because the outcome is more debt, which is desirable to them.
[08:59:39] <c0lo> The fact that the inflation barely raise in spite of 1 year worth of heavy money printing show that the trickle down is not working now (if it ever worked).
[09:00:15] <c0lo> Those crypto-values are high-enough risk to represent a destruction of fiat money.
[09:00:19] <boru> It never worked. If anything, it's gotten worse cf. salary vs. cost gap of most Western countries.
[09:01:34] <boru> And now several countries are in trouble because they have a bulge in their population pyramid at retirement age, and the working group holds so little of then national wealth that they can't possibly sustain in.
[09:02:00] <boru> Interesting economical times are coming in the next decade without a doubt.
[09:03:41] <boru> Probably one of the reasons the gun grabbers in so many countries are in such a scramble. The governments are probably about to do something which would make you want to use them.
[09:04:09] * chromas stocks up on bottle caps
[09:04:42] <boru> Get a HF radio and a pressing turret.
[09:04:51] <c0lo> " Interesting economical times are coming in the next decade without a doubt" https://xkcd.com *only serious*
[09:05:50] <boru> Personally, I'd rather be prepared and wrong than unprepared and right.
[09:06:10] <AzumaHazuki> c0lo, i think i may not make it to the land of moose and maples at this rate. well...some part of me was always preparing for that
[09:06:48] <AzumaHazuki> my body and mind burnt out. doctors are saying to take 6 (!) weeks (!!!) of emergency FMLA and get a bunch of blood and organ tests done
[09:07:32] <AzumaHazuki> this is...not going to make me popular at work. and losing a popularity contest in a setting like a hospital with their cliques and ingroups and gossip is a slow death sentence. no doubt i'll be harassed out
[09:07:39] <c0lo> What are you talking about, you can get there even by swimming. Millions of people got out from communist countries with defended borders.
[09:07:54] <AzumaHazuki> i'll have to make a refugee claim of some sort
[09:11:03] <c0lo> Go to the canadian job market and give it a search. Here's the australian counterpart https://www.seek.com.au
[09:11:06] <systemd> ^ 03SEEK
[09:13:11] <c0lo> Besides, what your worry of not making it to Cannabia?
[09:13:26] <AzumaHazuki> the US is likely going to go insane in 2022 around the midterms
[09:14:27] <c0lo> Too far in the future. If it goes insane, it'll be easier for you to claim refugee status.
[09:15:02] <AzumaHazuki> good point. i think i have a bad habit of trying to think too far ahead
[09:15:36] <c0lo> Not fit for the times we are living, indeed.
[09:16:50] <AzumaHazuki> i hate this. i work so hard for that place and this is what i get?
[09:17:19] <AzumaHazuki> no more overtime after these 6 weeks are up. no more favors. i am going to do 80% (which is still over 100% by comparison to most people there) and fuck off home after every shift
[09:20:31] <AzumaHazuki> ...i'd better lean hard on the union about this. they exist precisely to prevent this sort of bullshit popularity contest from ending careers
[09:24:32] <c0lo> "i work so hard for that place and this is what i get?" At least don't get bitter. Go annoyed, angry whatever is short term, but keep out from turning bitter for the rest of your life.
[09:24:46] <c0lo> Those come and go.
[09:25:31] <AzumaHazuki> my mother's coming up here. if i don't have enough income we can't get a place together. everything's gonna go to shit if this all goes wahoonie-shaped
[09:25:39] <AzumaHazuki> and i'm tired of suffering because of other people
[09:25:40] <c0lo> Make yourself one of those "this too shall come to pass" finger rings. Or bracelet. Or just a mental post-it.
[09:26:12] <AzumaHazuki> i need to help support and care for her. we're getting her out of NYC just before disaster strikes, i can feel it
[09:26:51] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Plastic With Embedded Enzymes Can Decompose Within Days - https://sylnt.us - disintegrating-before-you-get-it
[09:30:01] <chromas> https://www.youtube.com
[09:30:02] <systemd> ^ 03Watch NASA's SpaceX Crew-2 Launch to the International Space Station
[09:30:26] <chromas> (t-19:15)
[09:30:50] <chromas> oh I guess it's "L-" now
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[10:38:11] <Subsentient> Well, I see that the Ploob Oobl Plap Blap End of All has begun for Soylent News. The infighting has begun.
[10:43:20] <Subsentient> So nobody's gonna talk about the giant gerbil in the room?
[10:44:44] -!- progo has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
[10:45:39] <boru> Must've missed the memo. What are the rodents doing?
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[10:46:06] <Subsentient> Someone important is resigning and from the editor's notes on the story, it's pissed some of them off too.
[10:47:07] <c0lo> subsentient, [citation neede].
[10:47:22] <c0lo> s/neede/needed/
[10:47:22] <SedBot> <c0lo> subsentient, [citation needed].
[10:47:50] <Subsentient> And now of course SN won't load
[10:48:00] <c0lo> I'm lazy as fuck, where's the brouhaha? Linky please?
[10:48:50] <FatPhil> Only staff are aware of this presently.
[10:49:31] <Subsentient> Ahh, I see. So I'll be the one ripping the big fart in everyone's face. Should I let it rip?
[10:49:48] <FatPhil> you already have
[10:50:03] <boru> IRC drama doesn't interest me, personally.
[10:50:06] <Subsentient> Well, I haven't given a name. Or a link. Or a story.
[10:52:15] <AzumaHazuki> let it rip. i will guess: Bytram's had enough, fakefuck39 is the reason why, and the admin team has its head up its as as usual
[10:53:01] <Subsentient> AzumaHazuki: Wrong, sorry. https://universe2.us
[10:53:18] <boru> Well, voluntary contributors are a loss, regardless. Net loss, I guess.
[10:53:44] <AzumaHazuki> ahhh, okay
[10:54:10] <AzumaHazuki> i don't blame NCommander at all and, whoopsie-daisy-doodle, I've been specifically warning people things like this would happen
[10:54:21] <AzumaHazuki> but no one listens to Cassandra^W Marissa
[10:54:38] <Subsentient> This worries me. Never a good thing when an important person like that leaves an organization. You know, in re: post-truth, I really feel like it's a no-win.
[10:55:08] <Subsentient> Blatant censorship or blatant lies. Everybody loses.
[10:56:18] <FatPhil> Subsentient: did you have NCommander's permission to broadcast his at-the-time-he-made-it private message at this time?
[10:56:19] <AzumaHazuki> i fucking warned people over and over again SN is predicated on a four-year-old's idea of "free speech" and it's going to choke on its own diarrhea
[10:56:42] <Subsentient> FatPhil: It seems he clearly wanted it broadcasted, and other editors prevented it.
[10:56:51] <AzumaHazuki> ...oh hooooo, really now?
[10:57:30] <Subsentient> SN has run many meta stories over the years, this would be no different. For me, the only logical explanation as to why not to run it
[10:57:32] <FatPhil> was that "yes, I had his permission" or "no, I didn't have his permission". "seems" seems like weaseling.
[10:57:41] <Subsentient> would be because you disagree with the content
[10:58:06] <Subsentient> FatPhil: Have you read the editor's notes? I have.
[10:58:34] <FatPhil> I read them early in the month, not sure if any have been added since
[10:59:43] <Subsentient> Sigh. I've already had a series of rather severe arguments with people lately, I'm emotionally drained and depleted beyond belief. I don't have the stamina for one here. My friends are either dying, morphing into assholes, or getting tired of my depression-induced isolation. I'm tired.
[11:00:17] <AzumaHazuki> no wonder we get along...
[11:01:08] <Subsentient> I hate humans with a sickly, scalding, oozing black hatred that could be used to make licorice. Lately that hatred has only intensified ten fold. My health is deteriorating myself, rapidly, and I have no insurance.
[11:01:15] <boru> At the hazard of sounding callous, discussions with people you consider wrong or disagree with are self inflicted. IME, agreeing to disagree seems to be a thing of the past, as is just not wrestling pigs in the mud.
[11:01:48] <boru> You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, afterall.
[11:02:05] <AzumaHazuki> NCommander is completely right though
[11:02:10] * c0lo applauds NCommander's honesty to self
[11:02:10] <boru> It sounds like you need a hiatus, to be honest.
[11:02:20] <AzumaHazuki> SN's been effectively dead for ages. i don't even know why i'm still around here TBH
[11:02:39] <FatPhil> "know your enemy"
[11:02:57] <Subsentient> I'm not posting NCommander's story because I agree with it necessarily, though I agree with the assessment of the problems. I've posted gore on this site for years, for fuck's sake. I posted it because he clearly intended it to be shown, and he deserves that much after years of service to SN.
[11:03:02] * c0lo can't stand licorice
[11:03:29] <boru> I'm not a fan of it, either.
[11:03:50] <FatPhil> I prefer salmiakki
[11:04:15] <boru> I haven't heard of it.
[11:04:50] <FatPhil> from latin sal ammoniac, ammonium chloride - "drop" in dutch, I think
[11:04:53] <Subsentient> I'm one of those people who will not only admit when there's no solution, I'll rub your nose in the feculent hopelessness. NCommander's complaint is one such situation. Every option leads to more pain.
[11:05:34] <Subsentient> God, I wish people didn't need me so I could just die already. I'm so fucking tired.
[11:05:37] * c0lo thinks subsentient is wrong
[11:06:40] <c0lo> This to shall come to pass, subsentient.
[11:07:19] * AzumaHazuki loves licorice, but otherwise is basically in agreement with Subsentient and for many of the same reasons
[11:07:20] <boru> Not one to quote scripture so often, but I agree on that score.
[11:07:28] * Subsentient also loves licorice
[11:07:33] <boru> Barbarians!
[11:07:40] <c0lo> If you can't stand S/N anymore, don't do harm to yourself and wrestle the pigs in the shit. For a while at least.
[11:08:24] <c0lo> Takes a depressive to empathise with a depressive, Zumi.
[11:08:27] <Subsentient> Oh SN is just one of many windows for me to peer into the gaping, distended anus of modern humanity. It's a single pin in an ocean of used heroin needles.
[11:09:21] <c0lo> Take a trip abroad, subsentient. In many other places people can still laugh.
[11:09:54] <AzumaHazuki> this place didn't have to go this way
[11:09:56] <Subsentient> c0lo: I have no free time. I have off-work hours, but no free hours. I should be asleep right now.
[11:10:24] <AzumaHazuki> and what piss me off is i kept warning people and kept trying to fight the rising tide of bullshit, and...yeah
[11:10:33] <c0lo> subsentient, you forget about your body needs, the body will shit on your brains.
[11:10:51] <c0lo> Goto SLEEP. Now.
[11:11:02] <Subsentient> c0lo: What my body needs is a giant pack of cuban cigars and a revolver to the temple.
[11:11:17] <Subsentient> If only I could be so lucky
[11:11:59] <c0lo> That's you mind screaming under the pile of shit that your neglect of your body accumulated on top of it.
[11:12:29] <AzumaHazuki> this is truth. not sleeping is baaaad juju
[11:12:33] <AzumaHazuki> ask me how i know
[11:12:48] <c0lo> You will do what you will do, subsentient. It's be wise tho' to go to sleep.
[11:13:14] <Subsentient> Instead I get to stay alive in emotional agony every single day, as I watch my soul be slowly pickled by the depravity of people around me, until there's nothing left but a husk that exists to escort people who hate me to their medical appointments.
[11:14:24] <Subsentient> If there is a God, he must be punished for creating me.
[11:14:33] <Subsentient> I'll try and sleep now.
[11:15:55] <AzumaHazuki> there's no God the way most people think
[11:16:20] <AzumaHazuki> this is because its attributes are mutually incompatible as well as incompatible with observable reality. that said, i am not an atheist
[11:20:56] <Subsentient> This has been rattling around in my head all day. https://www.youtube.com
[11:20:58] <systemd> ^ 03PARADISE LOST Crucify
[11:24:40] <c0lo> Sunsentient, you lost your rhythm. Get back to simple things
[11:24:58] <c0lo> =yt lVPLIuBy9CY
[11:24:59] <systemd> https://youtube.com - FOLI (there is no movement without rhythm) original version by Thomas Roebers and Floris Leeuwenberg (10:51; 34,481,901 views; 👍380,690 👎11,601)
[11:25:14] <c0lo> There. No electronics.
[11:28:28] <Subsentient> Ahh, I see I've been stripped of editor privileges. This place is going to hell.
[11:29:49] <Subsentient> You could have approached me and maybe worked something out. But instead you decided to go above me and didn't even have the balls to talk to me first. So now I'm leaving it up on my personal server for which you have no control, just to punish you for that. https://universe2.us
[11:30:25] <Subsentient> Congratulations. I usually like to consider myself beyond spite. You drew it out of me. See you in hell.
[11:31:30] <Subsentient> Oh I think I'll make a journal entry too, now, just to shit in your cornflakes.
[11:32:12] <Subsentient> Did you really think that the kind of day I'm having, stripping ed privileges after I broke no rules would get you something positive?
[11:33:22] <c0lo> Subsentient, don't let the 1st link in my signature break
[11:33:37] <Subsentient> c0lo: I won't.
[11:34:07] -!- Xyem has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[11:35:47] * Subsentient is charging the thermonuclear option
[11:37:25] <Subsentient> c0lo: https://soylentnews.org
[11:37:26] <systemd> ^ 03Journal of Subsentient (1111)
[11:40:59] <Subsentient> Well I'm going to bed, make sure to really stir the diarrhea into that smoothie guys, I want to see at least a 300 person lynch mob by the time I get back.
[11:42:18] <Ingar> nn, but tbh, inho there are better Paradise Lost tracks ;)
[11:43:34] <Ingar> mmm, I don't seem to have Traic Idol though
[11:43:37] <Ingar> *Tragic
[11:46:41] <boru> I was just reading that IBM story about OSS contributions. Qualcomm tried to pull that shit on me when they bought a company I worked for at the time.
[11:47:08] <boru> All prior OSS contributions, and any subsequent ones I made in my spare time were now their property.
[11:47:33] <boru> I refused to sign the new contract and quit.
[11:48:24] <AzumaHazuki> prior? how the fuck is that legal?
[11:49:32] <boru> Indeed. Absolutely bonkers.
[11:50:05] <Bytram> Subsentient: PM?
[11:50:06] <boru> But they are utterly morally bankrupt. They have more lawyers than engineers, and make most of their money suing people for royalties and "patent infringement".
[11:50:29] <boru> They haven't done any real engineering at qualcomm for some time.
[11:51:09] <boru> Did you know that they set aside a portion of their profit each year to pay fines? It transpires it's cheaper to pay fines than to change their illegal business practices.
[11:52:27] <boru> IMO, anything I do in my spare time is absolutely no business of the company I work for, unless it directly relates to their business -- what which point I would still consider myself "at work".
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[11:55:32] -!- mode/#soylent [+v Xyem] by Aphrodite
[11:55:32] <FatPhil> Every contract I've signed in the last decade has had a rider that listed the fields in which I contribute to OSS, and that such work is to be able to continue unimpeded.
[11:56:23] <AzumaHazuki> Subsentient, saw my comment there?
[11:56:31] <boru> I've successfully had such clauses in my contracts removed in most of my career.
[11:56:52] <boru> "Remove this, or I won't sign it" has been quite persuasive.
[11:57:06] <AzumaHazuki> i've got a chatlog that has a direct confession of an editor admitting to targeting a specific user for downmods. said user, holy shit, entirely deserves it, so i'll keep that to myself for now
[11:57:13] <AzumaHazuki> but allllll the cracks are starting to show now
[11:57:14] <FatPhil> Those were clauses I *added*.
[11:57:24] <AzumaHazuki> and if people had goddamn listened to me a few years ago we'd not be in this mess
[11:57:28] <boru> Yeah, I got that. I was just saying I went the other way with it.
[12:07:58] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Tesla Cars Can Drive With Nobody in the Driver's Seat - https://sylnt.us - its-not-nice-to-fool-the-AI
[12:19:22] <Ingar> boru: companies reserving funds to pay their yearly fines is nothing new
[12:19:41] <Ingar> I know about companies how pay their yearly pollution fines because it is cheaper than upgrading their factory
[12:20:02] <Bytram> and then I saw you continue your revelations.
[12:21:54] <boru> I don't care if it's new or not, I was just stating a fact to illustrate what an awful company qualcomm are.
[13:03:55] <FatPhil> I can't believe I've never had to interface with qualcomm during my decades in industries they are all over. They give off that aura, I will certainly agree.
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[13:05:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, which editor and who?
[13:05:28] <AzumaHazuki> Subsentient, your journal entry has disappeared
[13:06:40] <AzumaHazuki> okay this is fucked up. someone deliberately deleted a user journal. those are almost sacrosanct. what the hell and WHO the hell?
[13:07:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, enhance your calm. he deleted it himself.
[13:07:05] <FatPhil> Sub had already edited it once
[13:07:11] <FatPhil> what makes you think he didn't pull it himselfg?
[13:07:19] <FatPhil> ah, what he said ^
[13:08:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> she can't see what i said. she thinks it's a good idea to /ignore an admin.
[13:08:02] <Subsentient> AzumaHazuki: Yeah it was me. I'll explain more later, but it's for a good cause. I'm too tired now.
[13:08:33] <AzumaHazuki> Ah, okay. I'm seeing more and more malfeasance recently sooooo
[13:08:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> optical illusion
[13:08:45] <AzumaHazuki> we in the cool zone now :v It's Happening, etc.
[13:09:51] <Subsentient> AzumaHazuki: Yeah me too, and tonight really pissed me off. Especially as tired and already angry as I was.
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[13:10:37] <AzumaHazuki> i have an editor who told me in PM they are specifically targeting one user for downmodding. and while i can't say he doesn't deserve it, well...
[13:11:07] <AzumaHazuki> NCommander is saying everything I've been saying, only he actually has (had) power so maybe someone will listen. me, i'm just the voice crying in the wilderness
[13:12:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander isn't saying anything or he would have posted the story.
[13:13:50] <FatPhil> Well, thanks to the appropriation of the unposted submission, he's now all over the headlines...
[13:14:15] <Subsentient> See, this is why I just want to die. I barely show up at all and suddenly the world's on fire. Well I'm going to sleep. Hopefully I won't wake up. Goodnight.
[13:14:43] <AzumaHazuki> it's almost like this place has gone off like last year's milk or something due to it being based on completely naive to the point of malice ideas about "free speech"
[13:14:43] <FatPhil> You don't mean that. You just need to count to 10 before acting.
[13:14:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> or step out and have a smoke
[13:15:30] <FatPhil> having a smoke is actually some people's way of counting to 10, indeed.
[13:15:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> can't decide if it would be amusing to quiet AzumaHazuki for a moment while she's bitching about free speech
[13:16:03] <c0lo> I posted it in my journal. Because I think the people deserve to know.
[13:16:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> prolly not funny enough to put up with the bitching
[13:16:25] <c0lo> Explanations can come later.
[13:16:41] <Subsentient> Sigh, okay, going to bed, but I'll say TheMightyBuzzard, I've seen hypocrisy on both sides of the free speech debate, and that proves my ultimate hypothesis: Humans are terrible.
[13:16:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, if he'd wanted it posted he would have posted it. it was something he was thinking about not something he'd decided. so if you wanna be a douchebag and force him to publicly decide, i won't stop ya. but you most certainly are being a douchebag.
[13:17:11] <c0lo> He wrote it.
[13:17:18] <c0lo> It's out.
[13:17:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> and he intentionally set it to "no display"
[13:17:35] <c0lo> Doesn't matter how.
[13:17:56] <Subsentient> It really shouldn't have been in a story at all. Something like that belongs in a .txt on your desktop, not on the site for all the mods to see.
[13:18:21] <c0lo> Explanations can come later.
[13:18:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah well, i'm not gonna bust his chops over it
[13:18:33] <c0lo> Did I already say it?
[13:18:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, yeah, and you feel you have the right to force him to explain?
[13:19:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> asshole
[13:19:26] <c0lo> OK. I'll take the characterisation.
[13:19:39] <c0lo> I'm an asshole for doing it.
[13:19:55] <Subsentient> c0lo: Can you do me a favor? Just wait until I wake up and say something in this channel again. If you still think you're doing more good than harm at that point, we can't stop you. But if I changed my mind, the originator, maybe you'll figure it out too.
[13:20:42] <c0lo> Ok. I'll wait 24 h.
[13:20:55] <Subsentient> c0lo: thank you. I appreciate it.
[13:20:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> Subsentient, get some sleep, man. been a rough morning.
[13:20:56] <Subsentient> I really do.
[13:21:06] <Subsentient> TheMightyBuzzard: God you have no idea how bad it's been lately.
[13:21:12] <Subsentient> Goodnight :^)
[13:22:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, if you want an explanation though, it was something that was weighing on his mind but he hadn't decided one way or the other yet. he wrote up the story and set it to "no display" while he mulled it over. that's been like more than a week.
[13:23:42] <c0lo> No, *I* don't want an explanation. I think that soylenters need to know it.
[13:24:23] <c0lo> NCommander may want to explain, editors may want to explain.
[13:24:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> subs wasn't around for the discussion we had with him in our souper sekrit channel, so he didn't know wtf was going on. and he's been stressed much bad lately so he thought it needed pushing out and we were stopping it from being
[13:25:14] <c0lo> And that's fine.
[13:25:31] <c0lo> It's human.
[13:25:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> actually it was worth an ass chewing
[13:25:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> but forgivable
[13:26:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> if you really wanna know, email ncommander and ask, or ask him to address it since it leaked a bit.
[13:26:39] <AzumaHazuki> i think his post explains it well
[13:26:54] <AzumaHazuki> i just wish people had freakin' listened to him (and me!) about this a few years ago
[13:27:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> mcasadevall@soylentnews.org
[13:27:07] <AzumaHazuki> but, well...play stupid games, win stupid prizes
[13:27:58] <c0lo> You may want to announce NCommander that it leaked and if he doesn't take a decision to get it in the out, an asshole is gonna do it.
[13:28:44] <c0lo> Because it's not defamatory and it's part of the real history of the site.
[13:28:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're the one who thinks it needs to go public. talk to the source.
[13:29:12] <c0lo> I won't
[13:29:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> ain't my place to say whether it does or not
[13:29:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, i figured. you don't actually care, you just wanna stir up shit.
[13:30:12] <c0lo> It will be him to take whatever decision he wants. It is for you, editors, to let him know,
[13:30:40] <c0lo> I don't want to stir shit, believe it or not.
[13:30:58] <FatPhil> Then why were you waving the spoon around so angrily?
[13:30:58] <c0lo> I sincerely think that soylenters deserve to know.
[13:30:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> you afraid of him or something? he's just a guy like anyone else. a guy i quite like.
[13:31:02] <AzumaHazuki> stir it, c0lo. it's about fucking time.
[13:31:11] <c0lo> It's nothng to be ashamed of.
[13:31:12] <AzumaHazuki> too much of this idiocy has been allowed to go on for too long
[13:31:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> thank you rantymcrantface
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[13:32:40] <c0lo> I do *not* want to stir the shit, I do think that if the shit get stirred, the benefits for the soylentnews community worth it.
[13:32:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> i was talking to azuma
[13:33:02] <boru> JFC, my ISP seem to have spilled their Friday beer on their routers or some such.
[13:33:05] <c0lo> OK, got it.
[13:33:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> personally, i think his potential decision and the way he put it was dead correct. if he feels differently than he used to, stepping down is a wise choice. far better than unilaterally changing the direction of the site.
[13:34:19] <c0lo> Yeap. This is something I can agree with, TMB.
[13:35:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> shows a hell of a lot more maturity and wisdom than most folks with them kinda views i've seen. respect.
[13:35:54] <AzumaHazuki> c0lo, never be afraid to stir shit what genuinely needs stirring
[13:36:25] * TheMightyBuzzard thanks AzumaHazuki for the fine example
[13:39:11] <AzumaHazuki> my ears are burning. am i annoying someone? someone who deserves it hopefully? if so, good.
[13:39:27] <AzumaHazuki> stir the swamp and watch what bubbles to the surface
[13:40:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> not especially, no. you're not worth getting annoyed over.
[13:40:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> all you get this morning is a sad head shake
[13:41:17] <c0lo> Zumi, your PTSD is showing. You don't need it. Assess your priorities.
[13:41:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, i'll email him in a bit. you okay if he contacts you over email?
[13:42:29] <c0lo> Not a problem, TMB.
[13:42:38] <c0lo> You can tell him...
[13:42:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> cheers. i expect he's going to say something along the lines of "i'd prefer to be the one to say it myself"
[13:43:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> but in a whole lot more words
[13:43:21] <c0lo> that the asshole will stop if he posts publicly on S/N about it.
[13:43:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> and if he hasn't decided?
[13:43:56] <AzumaHazuki> nothing wrong with being an asshole, Buzztard and Runaway wear the label proudly
[13:44:03] <c0lo> Then highly likely the sshole will post it as it is.
[13:44:09] * TheMightyBuzzard shurgs
[13:44:22] <AzumaHazuki> so it'd be hypocritical (and Buzztard is never, ever, ever hypocritical...er...) for them to be mad at you for being an asshole
[13:44:32] <c0lo> It's OK if he posts a single phrase saying that he's still soul-seraching.
[13:44:53] <c0lo> And hasn't decided how he feels about S/N.
[13:44:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'll leave that between you two then. ain't my pigeon.
[13:45:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> just curious
[13:45:43] * TheMightyBuzzard steps out for a smoke
[13:45:48] <c0lo> Fair enough. Just provided details he may want to know before deciding.
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[14:04:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, he's filled in via email and notified of said email via text message. tis now officially no longer my problem.
[14:04:42] <SoyCow9247> context is overrated
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[14:05:31] <c0lo> Thanks.
[14:08:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> the email if anyone's got a burning need to know what i said: https://tmb.dedyn.io
[14:08:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> fek
[14:09:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> sorry bout that, forgot i put your address in there.
[14:09:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> gone
[14:10:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> i hereby take the blame for any penis enlargement spams you get in the future
[14:11:11] * Subsentient can't sleep yet
[14:11:39] <Subsentient> TheMightyBuzzard: Sigh. The email is not only factually and chronologically wrong, it's a bit offensive.
[14:12:06] <Subsentient> I never pushed out the story. I posted a journal, *after* Bytram removed my editor privileges for a conversation that *solely took place in IRC*
[14:12:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahh, my bad.
[14:12:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> will correct
[14:13:37] <Subsentient> TheMightyBuzzard: The journal was actually retaliation against Bytram for banning me without so much as a word before or after, and at that point until he messaged me directly (finally), I thought it was still NCommander being censored.
[14:14:02] <Subsentient> s/banning me/removing my editor privileges/
[14:14:02] <SedBot> <Subsentient> TheMightyBuzzard: The journal was actually retaliation against Bytram for removing my editor privileges without so much as a word before or after, and at that point until he messaged me directly (finally), I thought it was still NCommander being censored.
[14:14:27] <Subsentient> TheMightyBuzzard: Do you understand why I got angry now?
[14:14:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> sorted
[14:15:41] <Subsentient> Not only were my privileges stripped for something that had nothing to do with editing, but nobody even told me about it.
[14:16:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, i get ya. and i think ya both overreacted instead of trusting the folks you work with to be well-meaning people not flaming asshats.
[14:16:12] <Bytram> And, as I explained to you, when I took that pre-emptive move, the site told me that the changes would not take effect until I issues a command directly on our servers. IOW, you still had full privs as if nothing happened.
[14:16:26] <AzumaHazuki> i don't think he gives a fuck, Subsentient. Buzztard's only in it for himself
[14:16:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> .kickban AzumaHazuki
[14:16:36] -!- mode/#soylent [+b *!*@the.end.of.time] by Aphrodite
[14:16:36] -!- AzumaHazuki was kicked from #soylent by Aphrodite!Aphrodite@dodekatheon.olympus.gr [(TheMightyBuzzard) No reason given]
[14:17:07] <Ingar> the dark side returns
[14:17:24] <FatPhil> Subsentient: How is abusing your editor privileges "nothing to do with editing"?
[14:17:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> 4/26 14:16
[14:17:38] <Subsentient> FatPhil: I didn't USE my editor privileges for this!
[14:17:41] <FatPhil> Technically, you
[14:17:42] <FatPhil> di
[14:17:44] <FatPhil> d
[14:17:45] <Subsentient> The whole thing took place in IRC!
[14:17:55] <FatPhil> Irrelevant
[14:17:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> being able to read it was an editor priv
[14:18:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> is what he's saying
[14:18:00] <FatPhil> ^ that
[14:18:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> he's nit picking mostly though.
[14:18:30] <FatPhil> And technically you didn't "push" the story, you "leaked" the story.
[14:18:43] <Subsentient> And that's not supposed to be a "thing" either.
[14:19:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> guys, it's sorted. ain't no need working up any more butthurt.
[14:20:04] <Subsentient> I suppose I wouldn't have learned about it if I hadn't been an editor, but I gave plenty of chances for someone to shut me up before I spilled the beans, and that's an opportunity you conspicuously missed, FatPhil.
[14:20:08] <Subsentient> Okay, I'm done.
[14:20:22] <FatPhil> Buzz - Don't bring butthurt into this!
[14:20:34] <FatPhil> No - I have right to respond
[14:20:46] <FatPhil> What chances did you give me.
[14:21:01] <Subsentient> Several minutes of chances. I assume your IRC logs work?
[14:21:13] <Subsentient> I didn't even mention the word "resign" in my first two messages!
[14:21:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> just fer future reference, in the middle of the night or early morning requires probably 12 hours to be considered "plenty of chances"
[14:21:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> you know we ain't often all here or paying attention
[14:21:33] <FatPhil> Do you think i have a direct IRC feed into my brain 24/7?
[14:22:07] <Subsentient> Fair point. But I did offer a chance, and like I said, in my mind, either it was old news that everybody knew and I was out of the loop, or something nefarious was going on.
[14:22:25] <Subsentient> At least from the optics of the editor's notes.
[14:22:32] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: Agreed. We have had a private discussion together, (you, me, and Subsentient) and I thought we had come to an understanding. I am disappointed is seeing it still being discussed.
[14:22:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> if yall feel the need to argue bout it some more, i ain't gonna shout ya down but keep it friendly, cause as far as i'm concerned it's completely sorted.
[14:23:03] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: ^^^ same here
[14:23:07] <c0lo> knock it off. I happened.
[14:23:18] <c0lo> s/I/It/
[14:23:18] <SedBot> <c0lo> knock it off. It happened.
[14:23:32] <FatPhil> That, and it was *2* minutes between you mentioning the issue and me responding "Only staff are aware of this presently."
[14:23:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, we ain't talking about the content of the letter but about the mistakes that happened around it on staff.
[14:23:53] <c0lo> What's done is done, subsentient and fatphil.
[14:23:54] <FatPhil> 2 fucking minutes.
[14:24:04] <c0lo> Yes, I got that, TMB.
[14:24:24] <c0lo> It's a pity that they still play butthurt.
[14:24:35] <FatPhil> It's an opportunity I conspicuously acted upon absolutely bloody immediately.
[14:24:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, rdt plays butthurt
[14:24:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> or vice versa i guess
[14:25:51] <c0lo> =yt wYKUBzTJxtA
[14:25:51] <systemd> https://youtube.com - The Cloggers Knife | Old Tool Reborn (23:01; 1,289,433 views; 👍19,797 👎240)
[14:26:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> ^^ public knowledge since he specifically asked me to post it in comments
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[14:27:30] <Bytram> okay, 2 deaths this week AND I'm under the weather. Also, I have an appointment to leave for shortly. I'm away for a few hours.
[14:29:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, every family has an argument now n then. long as nobody takes it too far it's just tomorrow's water under the bridge.
[14:29:44] <Subsentient> =yt LXx8DKk1XC4
[14:29:45] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Pyronecrobestiality (01:36; 434 views; 👍31 👎5)
[14:30:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt ZSvBoWFzH-w
[14:30:31] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com -- boobies and kitties
[14:36:54] <c0lo> TMB, I just attempted to throw a bit of the tomorrow's water-under-the-bridge today over the two, maybe they'll cool down.
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[14:37:13] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - YouTube is Now Building its Own Video-Transcoding Chips - https://sylnt.us - roll-your-own
[14:38:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, it's not the same if the water's yellowish
[14:39:37] <c0lo> TMB, I don't have the habit of throwing my beer over other people.
[14:40:17] <c0lo> not matter which of the two ends that beer is meant to pass through.
[14:40:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> well i wasn't talking about new beer
[14:40:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahh
[14:41:30] <Subsentient> Piss is America's national beer. I should know, as an American.
[14:41:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> anyway, that's quite enough unnecessary drama for me this morning. ima go get a shower and see about getting some work done today.
[14:43:19] <Subsentient> =yt eAZMPs8HvmU
[14:43:19] <systemd> https://youtube.com - PARADISE LOST Fear Of Impending Hell (05:25; 45,019 views; 👍512 👎3)
[14:56:06] <Subsentient> =yt F7O1z-Vw9Vc
[14:56:06] <systemd> https://youtube.com - PARADISE LOST - No Hope In Sight (Lyric Video) (04:48; 3,817,565 views; 👍36,030 👎683)
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[15:07:43] <Subsentient> =yt 55XlIPzY5q0
[15:07:44] <systemd> https://youtube.com - PARADISE LOST - Beneath Broken Earth (OFFICIAL VIDEO) (06:11; 6,707,861 views; 👍61,217 👎1,991)
[15:08:00] <Subsentient> Lmfao at the comment "This is heavier than my wife and she broke my pelvis the last time she was on top"
[15:09:44] <virions> omg hwat did we miss?
[15:10:09] <virions> uncensored ncommander pics? tell us!!!
[15:11:09] <inz> Death by snu snu!
[15:12:01] <Subsentient> virions: https://i.imgur.com
[15:13:56] <Subsentient> https://i.imgur.com
[15:16:46] <c0lo> =yt mFSRCG4DrmI
[15:16:46] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Newen Afrobeat feat. Seun Kuti & Cheick Tidiane Seck - Opposite People (Fela Kuti) (13:50; 9,969,035 views; 👍129,739 👎3,393)
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[15:37:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Plastic with Embedded Enzymes Can Decompose Within Days - https://sylnt.us - disintegrating-before-you-get-it
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[15:55:26] <NCommander> I'm here.
[15:56:39] * NCommander just caught up with the backscroll
[16:01:15] <c0lo> S/N should know your view about its evolution, letting aside the short opening side of the thing that surfaced.
[16:01:36] <c0lo> Gonna may it public by yourself, NCommander?
[16:02:13] <NCommander> c0lo, I'm amending it to say I've been essentially blackmailed. I had debated having a community roundtable to work on rooting out the toxicity, but frankly, this just convinced me that *actually* walking away is the smart thing.
[16:02:24] <NCommander> and for context, what was posted was my resignation letter.
[16:02:42] <c0lo> Yes, I know, I read it.
[16:02:47] <NCommander> I'm editing it right now
[16:03:21] <NCommander> And yes, I'm naming you directly. Because you should remember what I did with Barrabas way back. I have no problem posting dirty laundry.
[16:04:23] <c0lo> I don't much think that the short part containing your resignation matter.
[16:04:34] <c0lo> The second part is the one important.
[16:04:43] <NCommander> It's getting posted
[16:04:52] <c0lo> And I'll take the hit of being called a blackmail.
[16:04:53] <NCommander> Go enjoy your victory before you choke on it
[16:05:33] <c0lo> I don't enjoy it as a victory.
[16:05:42] <FatPhil> Dang - been busy this last hour or so
[16:05:49] <c0lo> I don't enjoy what this site became.
[16:05:57] <FatPhil> that's what he said
[16:06:12] <c0lo> And I conside important that the people get to express how they feel.
[16:06:15] * TheMightyBuzzard points to Bender for sage wisdom in such a case
[16:06:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> with blackjack, and hookers.
[16:06:31] <Subsentient> I remember the glory days when I actually had fun here. God that was so long ago.
[16:06:46] <Subsentient> NCommander: I wish you the very best, and I really hope things go better for you moving forward than they have so far.
[16:07:00] <NCommander> Yeah, and I had been debating actually running a community feedback article on actually changing things.
[16:07:05] <NCommander> But yeah, no, it's actually not worth it.
[16:07:07] <c0lo> All the best, NCommander.
[16:07:09] <FatPhil> If it's stopped being fun, stop trying to make it less fun for others.
[16:07:23] <Subsentient> c0lo: Well actually you're kinda being a dick and I'm the guy who posts gore, so
[16:07:40] <c0lo> Not gonna change until the society will change.
[16:07:50] <Subsentient> Humans never learn anything man, cmon.
[16:08:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> never happen. people are gonna continue being people. always.
[16:08:05] <Subsentient> Those who *do* learn history are doomed to watch helplessly as other repeat it.
[16:08:24] <c0lo> Sorry, I'm not a dick, I'm an asshole. This time.
[16:09:01] <Subsentient> c0lo: One thing Zuma and me disagree on is that it's okay to be an asshole. I don't think it is. I think it's okay to be annoying, and edgy, and weird, but I don't think it's okay to hurt people.
[16:09:09] <FatPhil> Thanks, everyone (with very few exceptions), for proving NC right...
[16:09:21] <c0lo> I'm not an asshole all the time.
[16:09:34] <c0lo> This one time I felt it was important.
[16:09:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> here's how you resolve the conundrum: you take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have, the facts of life, the facts of life
[16:10:52] <c0lo> Cruel to be kind, subsentient. NC has better thing to do with his life than to try foolishly to right something that cannot be.
[16:11:07] <NCommander> I'd be entirely within my legal rights to shutdown SoylentNews
[16:11:15] <NCommander> I'm not doing that because I'm not a dick like you.
[16:11:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, if matt agreed, yeah
[16:11:25] <c0lo> So be it if you so fell NCommander.
[16:11:51] <c0lo> s/fell/feel/
[16:11:51] <SedBot> <c0lo> So be it if you so feel NCommander.
[16:11:56] * NCommander rolls eyes
[16:11:59] <NCommander> .kb c0lo
[16:12:01] <NCommander> .op
[16:12:01] -!- mode/#soylent [+o NCommander] by Aphrodite
[16:12:03] <NCommander> .kb c0lo
[16:12:06] -!- mode/#soylent [+b *!*@zqs-646-162-243-166.static.vic.bigpond.net.au] by NCommander
[16:12:06] -!- c0lo was kicked from #soylent by NCommander!~mcasadeva@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mcasadevall [c0lo]
[16:12:09] <NCommander> Fuck it
[16:12:14] <NCommander> I really don't give a shit anymore.
[16:12:39] <NCommander> IRC has been an exception to the no bans rule.
[16:12:43] <NCommander> SOmeone else can reverse it.
[16:12:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> do what ya gotta do man. perks of moving on is you don't gotta put up with anyone's shit anymore
[16:13:21] <FatPhil> wow
[16:13:23] * TheMightyBuzzard shurgs
[16:13:28] <FatPhil> which doesn't mean "I disagree"
[16:14:02] <FatPhil> c0lo has been one of the people I've agreed with on the largest range of issues historically.
[16:14:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> ima let it slip my mind whilst i eat lunch and have a nap
[16:14:18] <NCommander> In my resignation letter, I said I effectively felt binded by the promises I made to the community
[16:14:26] <FatPhil> bound!
[16:14:26] <NCommander> And that we would keep free-speech, etc.
[16:14:29] <NCommander> :P
[16:14:33] <FatPhil> :)
[16:15:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, azuma's currently banned 3d for personal attacks
[16:15:05] <NCommander> But what I have found is unfiltered free speech makes 4chan because the loudest idiots shout over everyone else, and people choose to leave instead of modding them down
[16:15:24] <progo> Azuma has a lot of shit going on and she's SUPER cranky
[16:15:46] <FatPhil> I've not seen the last 10 screensfull, as I'm busy having my life, but to see an NC kickban c0lo means I've misses some fireworks.
[16:15:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> we put that rule in for #soylent cause this is where everyone lands and we don't want it devolving beyond where it can remain a useful channel.
[16:16:04] <FatPhil> Can we take this to a side channel?
[16:16:16] <NCommander> Doesn't really matter
[16:16:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> yar, ima go eat here in a couple minutes. just waiting on the chicken.
[16:16:51] <FatPhil> I'm a nihilist - nothing really matters!
[16:17:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> just so long as you don't start quoting metallica
[16:17:22] * TheMightyBuzzard heads for lunch
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[16:20:54] <FatPhil> I was just chilling with some new beers, I had actually lost all the stress of the afternoon
[16:21:12] <FatPhil> but I had to pop up this window again, and see the soap opera
[16:21:38] <progo> this is all weird to me where all the information I have on the drama is from messages in this IRC channel, and nothing else
[16:21:48] * progo sends out love and light to everyone
[16:21:54] <FatPhil> thank you progo
[16:23:19] <FatPhil> the beer I'm on is really good, so I'll try and spread some warmth
[16:26:46] <NCommander> it's kinda ironic
[16:26:51] <NCommander> because that's how I ended up as project leader
[16:26:53] <NCommander> A lot of IRC drama
[16:26:56] * NCommander sighs
[16:27:38] <progo> I need to sabotage my chances of becoming president of my local computer club, and make it look like it wasn't me who sabotaged me… before they suddenly elect me president :^)
[16:28:22] <Subsentient> progo: Show up in a luxurious wig made of raw dead mice. Worked for me.
[16:28:31] <progo> lol
[16:31:22] <Subsentient> Though, that's not too far off in composition from my normal hair either
[16:37:38] <progo> today I learned: "waterfall project management" is still a thing in my company
[16:38:15] <progo> I'm sittig in some kind of department update meeting that was supposed to have a "5 year plan" from the whole company presented, or something
[16:38:25] <Subsentient> I prefer the "vomit" development approach. Lumpy, uneven, and adds flavor to any day.
[16:38:36] <FatPhil> OK, I'm now drinking a shitty beer - so I can spread horrible ill-feelings across the land.
[16:38:54] <progo> lots of boring management talk where the workers should have got a "very optional" invitation, and a 2 page policy email instead of sitting through an hour of suits talking to each other
[16:39:25] <progo> I'm disconnecting and going to get bad fast food coffee instead
[16:39:36] <NCommander> I revised my resignation letter. Will let editors do a copyedit and then post at their leisure.
[16:39:41] <NCommander> *sigh*
[16:39:52] <NCommander> I honestly regret how this came to an end.
[16:39:53] <progo> in Zoom no one notices if you walk out on a meeting if you weren't being questioned or speaking
[16:40:20] <FatPhil> Zoom has no right to exist
[16:40:30] <FatPhil> Skype pre-existed that by decades
[16:41:00] <progo> (we're actually using Webex. Zoom is perilously close to being genericized and verbed)
[16:41:34] <progo> NCommander I'm a newbie, but thank you for all your work
[16:41:37] <Ingar> NCommander: nevertheless, thanks for doing stuff all that time
[16:41:49] <NCommander> I've been somewhat inactive the last few years
[16:42:42] <NCommander> But you're welcome.
[16:42:47] * NCommander deep sighs
[16:43:08] <NCommander> I honestly do regret this, I dislike that I didn't decide to take a harder stance on rooting out toxic idiots a long time ago.
[16:43:24] <NCommander> But a lot of the comments section on SN reads like 4chan to me especailly
[16:43:34] <NCommander> on stories that require any bit of empathy :/
[16:45:58] <NCommander> Honestly, I do feel like I'm running away from a problem than facing it, but this isn't the type of thing I can fix by myself.
[16:46:41] <Ingar> I'm not sure it is fixable
[16:47:03] <Ingar> see: The Internet
[16:47:13] <FatPhil> You've been very hands off
[16:47:34] <FatPhil> if there was no need to actively steer, then hands off is fine
[16:48:06] <FatPhil> but the question of what to do when you think things have gone off-track is a difficult one
[16:49:29] <FatPhil> Can we all go to marriage councelling, please?
[16:49:43] <NCommander> FatPhil, a lot of why I was hands off is because I felt bound by the promises I made.
[16:49:48] <NCommander> That's why I had intended to resign in 2018
[16:49:53] <NCommander> I was talked out of it.
[16:50:02] <NCommander> In hindsight, a mistake.
[16:50:23] <FatPhil> We've aired out grievances, we can work things out.
[16:51:39] <FatPhil> To feel bound by things that were promised way back before the reality of how things could evolve is unfair.
[16:52:04] <FatPhil> you never promised anything about what is happening today, or even 2 years ago.
[16:52:13] * NCommander shrugs
[16:52:17] <NCommander> That's true
[16:52:43] <NCommander> But I already failed by not taking account of it when it was starting to become more suited.
[16:53:06] <virions> so wait, NCommander is leaving becuase soylent is full of assholes? is that a fair summary?
[16:53:09] <NCommander> I legitimately regret how this played out, and I'm still doubting if I'm doing the right thing.
[16:53:23] <Ingar> NCommander: you could always return
[16:53:34] <NCommander> virions, a fairly large part, since I feel bound by the promises I made when we launched the site.
[16:53:54] <FatPhil> There's a wild-west aspect to this
[16:54:16] <FatPhil> NCommander: you did nothing wrong.
[16:54:17] <NCommander> I discussed this w/ staff pretty heavily
[16:54:38] <FatPhil> I wasn't on-chan when that happened, unfortunately.
[16:55:15] <NCommander> A lot aren't super comfortable w/ taking a more hands on role which is somewhat understandable and opinions kinda went past that
[16:55:24] * NCommander isn't going to go in details on specific opinions
[16:55:41] <FatPhil> Promises are not laser-beam sharp predictions, they diffuse over time.
[16:56:26] <NCommander> I do menthon that I see 2014 NCommander as well meaning but naive
[16:56:31] <NCommander> This was also prior to the era of Trumpism.
[16:56:35] <FatPhil> when the environment ahead is unknown
[16:56:54] <FatPhil> well, there were always stupids
[16:57:19] <FatPhil> a minority of them even managed to vote in the most stupid president ever
[16:58:04] <Runaway1956> Biden isn't stupid, he's mentally deficient
[16:58:19] <NCommander> A lot of it is that I'm very hardpressed to ban someone over an opinion, and I felt that when I posted original content, I couldn't effectively respond to a lot of posts since it was seen as "I'm staff+founder, oh you're imposing your will on us all"
[16:58:32] <NCommander> ban may not be the right word.
[16:58:47] <FatPhil> bad troll rubitout
[16:58:47] <NCommander> and I'm not certain I can put this into words properly.
[16:59:18] <FatPhil> understandable
[17:02:13] <virions> so... just trying to understand... NCommander you think it may be useful to start banning toxins from the web site, but that goes against the original promise?
[17:02:59] <FatPhil> virions: given that we've never seen you before, and you magically appeared today, can we probe you?
[17:03:23] <virions> p-p-p-probe?
[17:03:30] <Runaway1956> are you going to take him to the mother ship?
[17:03:34] <FatPhil> for example, were you recently banned by anyone?
[17:03:48] <virions> we came out of bacterium when it burst
[17:03:48] <NCommander> virions, it somewhat boils down tot his. Idiots will shout louder than everyone else. In theory, moderation can drop to Score: -1, but in practice, it doesn't really work.
[17:03:50] <FatPhil> so we have a david bowie fan?
[17:04:07] <NCommander> So what ends up happening is other people just get tired of it and leave
[17:04:47] <FatPhil> forest fires
[17:04:55] <NCommander> For instance, we've never banned Ethonal-Fueled off the site, despite some seriously trash comments that sometime get to the grounds of harassment.
[17:05:35] <virions> yeah i definitely noticed 4chanification over the years
[17:05:51] <NCommander> 4chan wasn't always the right wing bastion it was
[17:06:00] <NCommander> There was a time where it was much more left wing
[17:06:17] <NCommander> But what I realized over time is that without moderation, bullies and assholes will drive everything else out.
[17:06:25] <Ingar> I used to manage a forum where I deleted discussions by the thread
[17:06:46] <NCommander> I won't pretend like this wasn't somethign I haven't debated for ages.
[17:06:57] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The US is Running Out of People Willing to Get the COVID-19 Vaccine - https://sylnt.us - voluntary-compliance-will-be-mandatory
[17:06:59] <Ingar> just sheer spam, bile and more fine stuff
[17:07:24] <NCommander> But part of me really getting to the point of "fuck this shit" was the communities response to rms, all the victim blaming, and apologizing for rms, etc.
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[17:10:34] <NCommander> Maybe some day I'll return
[17:10:37] <NCommander> I very much doubt it
[17:12:03] <FatPhil> Please, at least, hang around on-chan for a while so that you can see if your ideals are nonexistent or not?
[17:13:51] <FatPhil> NC - can I privmsg you?
[17:13:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, that's an easy one. there are folks who agree with him. and there are folks who don't. both vehemently.
[17:14:20] <FatPhil> TMB - you're so outragiously wrong!
[17:14:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, no, you!
[17:14:31] <FatPhil> apart from the bits that are correct
[17:14:38] <FatPhil> I was too late
[17:14:45] * TheMightyBuzzard chuckles
[17:14:52] <FatPhil> I'm trying to have a conversatin at home here
[17:14:59] <FatPhil> TheMightyBuzzard++
[17:14:59] <Bender> karma - themightybuzzard: 431
[17:15:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'll try and have a nap then. should give you spare time to chat up the yankette.
[17:15:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> yankess?
[17:16:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> yank-my-doodle-it's-a-dandy?
[17:17:45] <virions> NCommander: may be you do need to chillax, cool off, and think things over. you may disagree with me, but in this particular instance, the letter writers are the ones who poisoned the discourse. the soylent chatter actually had some good points, though they were indeed drowned under troll dung
[17:18:34] <FatPhil> virions: please decloak
[17:18:51] <virions> perhaps it would be helpful to distinguish between a clearly present issue with the web site, and a completely underelated issue with rms letter
[17:19:02] virions is now known as bacterium
[17:21:17] <FatPhil> there's nothing wrong with toe-cheese, why are you all so obsessed by it?!?!?
[17:22:06] <bacterium> the man invokes strong feelings in fans and detractors alike
[17:22:38] <FatPhil> thank you
[17:22:52] <FatPhil> yeah, but who doesn't like blue cheese
[17:25:43] <FatPhil> bacterium: the concept of NC "chillaxing" is totally naive - he's been wathing the site for years, nothing will change whilst he "chillax"es
[17:25:49] <FatPhil> +c
[17:26:48] <bacterium> what i mean is he may want to chillax about the rms letter, why bother? why take it personal?
[17:29:42] * NCommander sighs
[17:30:07] <NCommander> I really don't think I can explain it better than I have.
[17:30:36] <NCommander> But the comments on that thread is what basically made me really decide it was time to go.
[17:30:37] * bacterium should not be the one to talk, he completely flipped out over that thing
[17:31:12] <NCommander> and I personally denounced RMS and the FSF. I've dealt with rms personally, he's one of the most toxic people to work with.
[17:31:54] <NCommander> (the FSF staff unionized due to having to put up w/ him)
[17:32:06] <Fnord666> And that's the thing. Most people commenting in the thread have never even met the man let alone worked with him.
[17:32:44] <bacterium> NCommander: FSF no longer equal RMS though, not since he's not prez anymore
[17:32:59] <bacterium> they could become equal again if they completely reinstate him, though
[17:33:27] * NCommander sighs
[17:33:29] <bacterium> that would be a real strike against FSF in my opinion, but until then, i actually have a hope for it
[17:33:41] <NCommander> Bringing up this conversation was a bad idea
[17:34:12] <bacterium> right you are, i'll just shut up, i am just rising my own blood...
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[17:51:58] <FatPhil> we dragged you here
[17:52:06] <FatPhil> screaming and kicking
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[18:37:31] <acid_andy> NCommander sorry to hear you're leaving. I certainly felt a vibe that the site was getting more divisive--particularly since Trump and the election, and the signal-to-noise has been getting worse. So far I've decided to stay. It's partly because I think the whole world is in turmoil and people's frayed tempers are just getting reflected on this site.
[18:38:36] <NCommander> acid_andy, *looks at the main page*
[18:38:41] <NCommander> The letter hasn't gone up yet
[18:38:47] <NCommander> Did c0lo post it?
[18:38:55] * NCommander exhales
[18:39:04] <acid_andy> I also do believe the signal-to-noise and toxicity could be improved without complete censorship. Maybe something like allowing some posts to be modded below -1, non spam
[18:39:12] <acid_andy> NCommander No sorry
[18:39:17] <NCommander> No, it's fine
[18:39:21] <NCommander> I was talking about it earlier
[18:39:29] <NCommander> It will likely be common knowledge even before the editors post it
[18:39:31] <acid_andy> NCommmander: You're talking in IRC about doubting you'll be back
[18:39:41] <NCommander> I gave my blessing on posting it, but they still need to schedule
[18:40:00] <NCommander> acid_andy, the problem is pretty systemtic.
[18:40:21] <acid_andy> I think hateful posts could be modded, maybe with moderator review, below -1, then require an explicit click to download them from the server
[18:40:54] <acid_andy> Though I know there'd be so much pushback against a change like that that it would rip the staff apart probably and the community. Hmmm.
[18:41:02] <NCommander> Pretty much that.
[18:42:25] <acid_andy> NCommander: It just sucks to see good people like you leaving the site. You're not the first to go that was bringing great effort or great discussion or content to the site. The more good people go, the worse it gets.
[18:43:25] <acid_andy> Though I completely understand and wish you well.
[18:45:46] <NCommander> I've been effectively AFK since mid 2020
[18:48:13] <acid_andy> I have to say the tech discussion here is still top notch and I've never really felt at home with any of the other tech sites since I left the green one. Maybe things will get better in the years to come.
[18:48:51] <acid_andy> Well, a high notch if not top :)
[18:48:56] <NCommander> Yeah, there are a lot of folks who've been here since the early days
[18:52:31] <bacterium> i joined very soon after the kick-off, and i still read the topics, they are extremely informative
[18:53:10] <bacterium> i haven't been contributing to the discussion lately, not even reading it most of the time, but that is more likely due to personal shifts, not the site
[18:53:57] <bacterium> been writing things elsewhere a lot, like in chat rooms and a few other forums
[18:54:22] <bacterium> wasting my time in here, too ;)
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[19:34:21] <Ethanol-fueled> Well, seems that I destroyed Soylentnews. That's a shame.
[19:34:58] <progo> it's all your fault
[19:35:22] <Ethanol-fueled> People like to ask me why I can't just behave. Well, I did, for awhile, but as I saw my country starting to fall apart and questioning why that has to happen, as well as a lot of personal experiences in real-life, I thought I should ramp up the honesty a bit.
[19:36:16] <Ethanol-fueled> On the other hand, the comment section basically turned into Reddit, with people asking questions too afraid to post under their login name and still be carpet-bombed for questioning the "official government" version of things.
[19:36:53] <Ethanol-fueled> What motivation does somebody have to behave if they're just gonna be mod-bombed carpet-bomb style for pointing out that something's not right about all this vaccine stuff?
[19:36:57] <Ethanol-fueled> And all this riot stuff?
[19:37:18] <Ethanol-fueled> And all this "coersion to live under isolation and dehumanize yourself" stuff?
[19:37:52] <Ethanol-fueled> By the way, I don't have and never had any real personal problem with anybody here. Not even Azuma :P
[19:39:07] <Ethanol-fueled> But again, I have some life experience, a lot of it unnecessarily embittering. My posts here reflect the way I've been treated by certain people throughout the course of my lifespan.
[19:39:48] <Ethanol-fueled> And I'm not gonna sit idly by supporting MSNBC talking points about how I should feel "original sin" by racists who are calling me racist.
[19:40:20] <progo> you're being civil now. in the last week I've seen Ethanol-fueled and AzumaHazuki get really nasty in IRC. when you do that you lose the moral high ground in any argument
[19:40:25] <Ethanol-fueled> And if I had to break out the verbal heavy artillery in the discussion forums and be permabanned, then so be it.
[19:40:44] <progo> if I can't be civil in a forum I just leave for hours or days
[19:41:15] <progo> I have a few people I'm very close to on the internet, and everyone else is just talking heads that I know are attached to real people somewhere
[19:41:16] <chromas> Ask Soylent: Is it possible for a person to be nounal or adjectival?
[19:41:35] <progo> chromas: yes
[19:43:43] <Ethanol-fueled> America is in a cold war AND a cold civil war.
[19:43:58] <progo> the burning Apple store says otherwise
[19:46:10] <Ethanol-fueled> I'm not advocating violence and have no plans to be violent, but as far as posting online goes, I'm not gonna sit there while being silenced by petty tyrants and authoritarians. I don't mean staff or admins, I mean in the discussions what looks like a Chinese Reddit bot trying to shit all over everybody who questions the official narrative.
[19:46:51] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Four Astronauts Launch to ISS on Used Falcon 9 and Crew Dragon Spacecraft - https://sylnt.us
[19:46:58] <Ethanol-fueled> Let's not bullshit ourselves: the woke crowd have the massive upper-hand in the discussions. I prefer to root for the underdog
[19:48:35] <Ethanol-fueled> Especially because libertarian/right leaning types were never about silencing the opposition. The "sides" have switched. As I pointed out earlier, the progressive left are the fascists. They are the corporatists. They are the warmongers. They are the oppressors.
[19:49:51] <progo> I agree with all that and I just let Soylent be whatever the average Soylenter is. if I disagree with the politics of the thread I'm not arguing there
[19:49:54] <Ethanol-fueled> They see absolutely no problem in completely silencing anybody for the crime of disagreement. Censoring me, I can understand. Censoring people asking honest, civilized questions, that's wack as fuck.
[19:50:35] <Ethanol-fueled> So Imma ride the troll-train straight into karma hell!
[19:52:44] <Ethanol-fueled> Choo Choo Chu Ching-Chang Chew-WIE!
[19:52:49] -!- Ethanol-fueled has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[20:07:45] <pinchy> hah that pro vax shills are in full force on that vax article
[20:14:53] <progo> fascinating. I just discovered Outlook 365 for browsers uses markdown internally. (shows you a WYSIWYG editor form). I'd been thinking about building a diary like that, with Markdown in the database for readability even though most users might never see it
[20:15:24] <progo> evidence: pasted a bad not-url into Create Link dialog box. sent. got unparsed Markdown in the sent message.
[20:16:10] <chromas> MS does weird things
[20:16:16] <progo> processing rich text as markdown is a good way to get all the crap out of HTML moved across clipboards
[20:16:29] <chromas> Back when MSN Messenger was a thing, messages with "download.php" would be memoryholed
[20:16:38] <progo> ha ha
[20:17:10] <progo> Skype and Teams convert symbolic logic discussions into mojibake. on the receiving end, by default. you cannot tag your outbound messages as "please don't mangle my text!!!"
[20:17:13] <chromas> We should all go back to rtf
[20:17:44] <progo> also Teams and Outlook support markdown markup in your text stream as you write in a Compose box. at the end of expressions it makes them rich text
[20:18:31] <progo> type out « `filaneme` » and you get « filename » in fixed width style
[20:32:16] * Runaway1956 thinks about creating an internet vitamin
[20:32:25] <Runaway1956> it would be similar to an internet worm
[20:32:33] <Runaway1956> but actually it's a vitamin
[20:32:44] <Runaway1956> it deletes all databases that it comes into contact with
[20:32:44] <chromas> does it patch vulnerabilities
[20:32:53] <chromas> "vulnerabilitiesof the heart"
[20:33:16] * Runaway1956 doesn't do tires - no patching
[20:33:58] <chromas> I bought a pack of hundreds of tire patches last year. Then I upgraded the tires & tubes. Mysteriously haven't come across thorns since then
[20:36:16] <Runaway1956> It's best to just not drive through the thorn patches unless they are self patching thorns.
[20:36:50] * Runaway1956 tries to remember the last thorn patch he saw on a paved highway
[20:37:35] <chromas> They grow on the sides, then their butthole thorns get bumped into the road
[21:11:42] * Deucalion sihgs loudly.
[21:12:10] * Deucalion then shigs and ultimately decides on sighs
[21:17:58] <Deucalion> All bans on #soylent have been lifted.
[21:19:59] <Deucalion> This situation we find ourselves in has been a creeping death on us as a community for far too long and I have been asleep at the wheel (reasons).
[21:20:36] <chromas> I propose this solution: Ban everyone
[21:22:43] <Deucalion> Move on
[21:25:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> blarg, i should go back to nap. that one didn't feel very effective
[21:25:24] <chromas> smoke and then nap
[21:25:27] <chromas> make it a smoke sammich
[21:25:47] <Deucalion> We do however have to address how we move forward. Which with only 50 channel members left, half staff, hald the rest bots, half the rest SoyCows... who is listening?
[21:26:22] <Deucalion> Time to take it off IRC
[21:26:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas++ for great genius
[21:26:47] <Bender> karma - chromas: 350
[21:26:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> ha! tree fiddy
[21:27:13] <Deucalion> .op
[21:27:13] -!- mode/#soylent [+o Deucalion] by Aphrodite
[21:27:23] <chromas> goddammit loch ness monster I ain't givin' you no tree fiddy
[21:27:23] -!- mode/#soylent [-bb *!*@zqs-646-162-243-166.static.vic.bigpond.net.au] by Deucalion
[21:27:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, i gave you tree fiddy
[21:27:54] <chromas> am I the loch ness monster here?
[21:27:59] * TheMightyBuzzard nods
[21:28:00] <chromas> what a tweest!
[21:28:45] * TheMightyBuzzard chases down the nicotine wagon
[22:16:58] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Apple Faces Lawsuit Over its ITunes 'Buy' Button - https://sylnt.us - you-dont-own-what-you-buy
[22:30:36] -!- NCommander [NCommander!~mcasadeva@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mcasadevall] has parted #soylent
[22:40:50] <chromas> I think it's been too long since I complained about something :)
[22:40:54] * chromas looks at complaint list
[22:41:25] <chromas> Do I whine about Pidgin still not having video support on Windows in the current year or Intel HD Audio sound chips having terrible mic support?
[22:44:34] <bacterium> may be you should save your strength for web browsers having video support, all the 10000 codecs, plus js, plus webassembly so that they can fuse the next video with a crypto module
[22:46:15] <chromas> There used to be an mplayer plugin for npapi, which was neat
[22:47:36] <chromas> There used to be lots of plugins before everyone went to Flash. Thanks, Macrome—I mean Adboe
[22:49:28] <chromas> Speaking of bloat, I remember when Blender used to be about 2 MB. Now it's 90
[22:49:41] * chromas sits back in his front porch rocking chair
[22:50:31] <chromas> oh and bringing it back to browsers, Opera was only a couple meg, too
[22:54:46] <progo> is he node.js, or 6502 machine code?
[22:55:13] <progo> https://www.ausretrogamer.com
[22:55:50] <chromas> 6502.js
[22:57:03] <progo> we should give an award for the first desktop or phone general app programming framework to hit 1GB deployment size
[22:57:13] <progo> Electron is around 150MB uncompressed today, I think
[22:57:43] <Fnord666> That would be vidya games
[22:58:38] <progo> and Electron refuses to do the java-style "share once instance per framework release across all dependent apps on this system"
[22:58:55] <progo> no, why would you do that when you can just make one giant folder with everything but the OS and call it an app?
[22:59:51] <chromas> isn't that the whole point though? it's a webapp bundled with its own browser
[23:00:04] <progo> more or less yes
[23:00:27] <Fnord666> wasn't that just Emacs?
[23:00:30] <progo> yeah I remember 2MB browsers
[23:00:33] <progo> with scripting
[23:00:44] <chromas> I see the CUDA package here on arch is 1.2G
[23:00:54] <progo> lovely
[23:01:00] <chromas> far as I can tell, that's the 'deployment' package, separate from the SDK
[23:01:22] <progo> my "daily driver" laptop only has 32GB of storage. that's racist against me
[23:02:51] <progo> I love how Windows market segmentation forced this computer (HP Stream) to come with no more than 32GB storage, and monopoly power forced it come with Windows which was barely usable with this hardware config.
[23:03:07] <progo> it's an Intel chip Stream motherboard, and it works just lovely with Ubuntu
[23:03:23] <chromas> Doesn't Windows take up almost 30G by itself?
[23:03:24] <progo> they also have AMD. I haven't tried those in the Stream series
[23:03:28] <progo> today now probably
[23:03:37] <Fnord666> If yo uahve the details on how to convert it written up somewhere I have one of those "laptops"
[23:03:52] <chromas> Whereas you can get a whole graphical desktop with all the office and crap in a gig or two
[23:03:53] <progo> "convert"?
[23:04:03] <Fnord666> Or a link to a guide that you used I would appreciate it
[23:04:09] <progo> if it's an Intel loaded Stream laptop, just run the Ubuntu installer
[23:04:26] <progo> Fnord666: I'd be happy to have a private help-you-out conversation some day
[23:04:28] <Fnord666> It's finicky about what it will boot from IIRC
[23:04:52] <Fnord666> That would be much appreciated. It's in a drawer somewhere.
[23:05:19] <progo> I'm always on IRC. PM me when you're thinking about it and we'll setup a time in the coming days after that for a jitsi call and/or just texting
[23:05:22] <chromas> Might need to disable secureboot. There's an option in Windows somewhere to boot into the firmware interface if you can't use F12 or whatever
[23:05:36] <progo> also, email address is brendan@glump.net
[23:06:04] <chromas> this channel is publicly logged so you might get some spam when the log is scraped
[23:06:28] <progo> I got it working with SecureBoot, and Ubuntu gets their kernel releases signed with a microsoft key to avoid crypto problems on Microsoftified hardware
[23:06:32] <Fnord666> Thank you.
[23:06:48] <progo> you can install new keys in secureboot (boot any kernel you built, if you want). you can disable secureboot. it's all not really locked down
[23:07:20] <progo> it's defintely not newbie-friendly though. so I'm happy to hold your hand
[23:07:56] <Fnord666> Much appreciated. I'll dig it up and get back with you.
[23:08:11] <progo> but it's way better than it used to be in the 90s and early 2000s installing Slackware Linux from floppies
[23:09:13] <progo> thanks chromas. that email address is on my blog/portfolio web site, too
[23:09:22] <progo> FastMail spam filter works well enough
[23:54:06] <chromas> that is good news!
[23:55:33] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Apple Faces Lawsuit Over its iTunes 'Buy' Button - https://sylnt.us - you-dont-own-what-you-buy
[23:59:03] -!- Ethanol-fueled [Ethanol-fueled!~5c7711f6@92.119.ot.rzt] has joined #soylent
[23:59:38] <Ethanol-fueled> https://www.abc15.com
[23:59:39] <systemd> ^ 03Campaign ad attacks Mark Kelly’s business with China
[23:59:50] <Ethanol-fueled> Same guy I called out here on a whim months ago.