#soylent | Logs for 2021-04-21

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[00:08:05] <c0lo> Why go to the moon when LEO is enough for my tird back?
[00:14:40] * Bytram notices the Freudian slip: "tird back" -- yeah, that's a fitting description, too!
[00:15:31] * Bytram notes that he is quickly overtaking cmn32480's typo king crown
[00:20:53] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[00:30:00] <AzumaHazuki> Looks like they finally brought that Chauvin guy to some semblance of justice. Breonna Taylor's killer next, please. She was a healthcare worker and arguably contributed more good to society than Floyd did
[00:30:15] <AzumaHazuki> i'm very glad to see this, but it's only the first step and if we stop here...
[01:03:08] <AzumaHazuki> and, wow, the responses on the forum thread are as predictable as fine Swiss clockwork...including going completely cuckoo on a consistent basis. Jesus, some people do not deserve the oxygen they breathe...
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[01:56:04] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Groundbreaking Effort Launched to Decode Whale Language - https://sylnt.us - whale-of-a-tale
[03:25:51] <Runaway1956> How judgemental
[03:26:13] <Runaway1956> "Breonna was a health care worker - like me - so she was valuable"
[03:34:43] <Bytram> Runaway1956: and who's judging that statement, Hmmm? Pot meet kettle?
[03:35:12] <c0lo> https://pbs.twimg.com
[04:03:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt 7V_heAiJ3fY
[04:03:11] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com -- ATF VS....FLESHLIGHTS?
[04:14:46] <Runaway1956> Bytram - I merely judged a biased statement - the statement I judged actually judged the value of a human being.
[04:21:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, uncle joe bought me a 1911 this morning. now i gotta break into TR's leatherworking stuffs and make a holster. oh and find some pretty wood for grips cause the ones that came with it aren't very good looking and are rather non-grippy
[04:26:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> full sized 1911 and my hand still hangs over the bottom just a wee bit. extended mags will fix that though.
[04:28:31] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Cannabis Legalization Has Won? - https://sylnt.us - 43%-is-not-quite-a-majority
[04:40:18] <c0lo> https://www.rawstory.com
[04:40:19] <systemd> ^ 03Anti-vaxxer hysteria hits new heights: Covid vaccine turns you into a different race
[04:41:14] <c0lo> Moar opportunities to be racist, I reckon
[04:48:45] <chromas> Sounds like Russian propaganda
[04:49:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh you can always find some little completely irrelevant something to hate someone over if you're the asshole instead of them
[04:49:33] <chromas> That's what the article was about, actually
[04:49:58] <chromas> Some little completely irrelevant something some rando on Twitter posted generates many a fine article
[04:50:15] * TheMightyBuzzard hates chromas because of the size of his left pinky toe
[04:50:53] <chromas> no, fuck you! your fingernail dimensions are a disgusting aspect ratio
[04:52:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> you know, i was just thinking that myself. got distracted by an unexpected cold front when i was gonna have a smoke n clip them though.
[04:54:24] <c0lo> Russians? Well, yeah, she kinda looks like https://twitter.com
[04:54:24] <systemd> ^ 03Twitter
[05:01:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> shit, how'd it get to be midnight? last i looked it was dinner time
[05:11:30] * chromas whips up some tortilla pizzas
[05:14:01] <c0lo> https://nerdist.com
[05:14:02] <systemd> ^ 03100 Toy Race Cars Have a Demolition Derby On a Treadmill - Nerdist
[05:18:07] <chromas> Finally, some racism we can all agree one
[05:21:47] * c0lo knows
[07:06:10] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - No, Vaccine Side Effects Don't Tell You How Well Your Immune System Will Protect You from COVID-19 - https://sylnt.us
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[09:25:57] <c0lo> teach them guns are an option, teach them young https://abcnews.go.com
[09:25:57] <systemd> ^ 039 juveniles injured in gunfight that broke out at 12-year-old's birthday party
[09:27:24] <kyonko> knives are always in the kitchen
[09:27:32] <kyonko> but pencils and pens will do
[09:27:57] <FatPhil> not for cutting birthday cake
[09:28:07] <FatPhil> then again, guns don't work for that either
[09:28:14] <FatPhil> in particular, shotguns
[09:28:52] <inz> don't bring a gun to a cake fight
[09:28:52] <kyonko> there is fire in the kitchen
[09:29:04] <kyonko> god's chosen have guns
[09:29:17] <FatPhil> If I were god, I'd not chose them.
[09:29:29] <inz> they are dar winning
[09:38:08] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Microsoft Says Mandatory Password Changing is “Ancient and Obsolete” - https://sylnt.us - HUNTER2
[09:38:58] <kyonko> Windows 95 overwrote my MBR and BSDLABEL
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[10:08:17] <I_FUCK_KANGAROOS> hahaahhahhaa
[10:08:35] <I_FUCK_KANGAROOS> WE
[10:08:55] <I_FUCK_KANGAROOS> 8================D ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ STRAWBERRY SPERM FOREVER ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[10:08:57] <boru> Get a job.
[10:09:07] <I_FUCK_KANGAROOS> I've got plenty of blowjobs
[10:09:20] <boru> With the same guy?
[10:09:27] <I_FUCK_KANGAROOS> how sweet, fresh meat ^_^
[10:09:57] <I_FUCK_KANGAROOS> hahahhaahah
[10:10:04] <I_FUCK_KANGAROOS> mmmm yeah I love that smell
[10:10:13] <I_FUCK_KANGAROOS> love to taste the fresh juices
[10:10:43] <I_FUCK_KANGAROOS> precious juices I might add
[10:10:51] <I_FUCK_KANGAROOS> if, I may be so bold
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[10:11:30] <inz> That was a waste of space.
[10:13:24] <boru> IRC has always been a magnet for those sorts. I do wonder what they get out of it, though.
[10:15:01] <Ingar> it's like drawing a penis on your school desk
[10:15:27] <boru> To signal your level of wit to the world?
[10:16:00] <Ingar> or the indicate your general knowledge on the subject of human reproduction
[10:16:11] <boru> Or at least, one side of it.
[10:16:14] <Ingar> and signal potential participants it ain't worth the trouble
[10:16:36] <Ingar> not sure kangoroos can read though
[10:18:53] <Ingar> are hostnames always obfuscated in the same way, or is there a random component to it ?
[10:19:40] <FatPhil> I think the first bits of it aren't obfuscated, so that might be identifiable
[10:19:57] <FatPhil> but you'd have to check with someone who actually knows!
[10:20:30] <Ingar> I miss BitchX's /shitlist
[10:20:47] <c0lo> =submit https://www.nbcnews.com
[10:20:51] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Steady Increase in Russian Troops Near Ukraine’s Border, Pentagon Says" (17p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[10:21:32] <c0lo> Reuters, hated by bots, says 120K ^^^
[10:21:59] <c0lo> https://www.reuters.com
[10:22:47] <Ingar> https://english.pravda.ru
[10:22:50] <systemd> ^ 03Russian Defence Minister says US and NATO conduct provocations in the Black Sea
[10:42:01] <c0lo> Iff Navalny protests are serious enough, Putin may need to wag the dog https://www.aljazeera.com
[10:42:03] <systemd> ^ 03Russia cracks down on Navalny allies on eve of planned protests
[10:45:05] <c0lo> teens organise gratefulness walkouts for being out of police concern https://www.theguardian.com
[10:45:06] <systemd> ^ 03Hundreds join Minneapolis high school walkouts: ‘Police don’t care about us’
[10:46:17] <c0lo> This can happen if police cares about you https://www.fox5ny.com
[10:46:18] <systemd> ^ 03Deaf Black woman detained, handcuffed by police as crying daughters asked to interpret
[10:46:29] <Ingar> the police isn't there to care about you
[10:46:36] <Ingar> the police is there to enforce the law
[10:47:25] <c0lo> Ingar, don't play the ... ummm... naive for too long, it may became permanent.
[10:48:08] <Ingar> a godo friend of mine has been 'cared about' by the police not too long ago
[10:50:10] <c0lo> Various instruments of police care https://pbs.twimg.com
[10:52:58] <c0lo> https://www.washingtonpost.com
[10:52:59] <systemd> ^ 03Perspective | It’s wrong to pull troops out of Afghanistan. But we can minimize the damage.
[10:53:24] <c0lo> Says... Meghan L. O'Sullivan
[10:53:59] <c0lo> You know? That Meghan https://www.rtx.com
[10:54:00] <systemd> ^ 03Margaret L O Sullivan
[10:54:56] <Ingar> I'm trying to find the oath police officiers have to make here
[10:56:24] <c0lo> Is "merde" good enough?
[10:58:38] <Ingar> tbh, you would be under arrest now for violation of the local language laws
[10:59:55] <Ingar> from what I can find the oath goes like this
[10:59:58] <Ingar> "I swear loyalty to the King, obedience to constitution and the laws of the Belgian people"
[11:00:25] <Ingar> so, literally, the police cares about the king and the law, not you :D
[11:01:29] <Ingar> time for lunch
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[11:03:12] <c0lo> =submit friends-are-not-posting-friends-photos https://www.huffpost.com
[11:03:14] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Feds Track Down Capitol Rioter With Facial Recognition Hit on His Girlfriend's Instagram" (2p) -> https://soylentnews.org
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[11:37:15] <c0lo> Ingar, FYI, I didn't object to the "the police isn't there to care about you"
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[12:05:29] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - "Zombie" Genes? Research Shows Some Genes Come to Life in the Brain after Death: Post-mortem Changes - https://sylnt.us - braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiinnssss
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[12:47:12] <AzumaHazuki> =submit https://newatlas.com
[12:47:16] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Microplastics Found to Alter Shape of and De-cluster Human Lung Cells" (11p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[12:47:28] <AzumaHazuki> i don't have a witty dept. line for this one. this is fucking terrifying
[12:51:04] <boru> Microplastics are, in general. There's a lot of research linking wearing these covid masks to lung cancer, and microplastics in food and water leading to endocrinological problems and reduced sterility, for example.
[12:51:19] <boru> Err, increased sterility, rather.
[12:51:58] <boru> They're pushing these FFP2 masks over on this side of the pond, but they just have a lesser amount of microplastics to breath in.
[12:52:12] <boru> It's a real catch 22, imho.
[12:53:24] <boru> And the FFP2 masks (or N95 I think they're called over there) only have the feature if you wear them for 5 or 6 hours a day and no more, as their structure deteriorates after that and the level of microplastic fragments that fall off increases dramatically.
[12:53:35] <FatPhil> Oh, this'll be good. What's this "a lot of research" then?
[12:54:25] <boru> So far this year, there's ~4 major studies from various medical schools, but there's much more published last year.
[12:54:36] <boru> That's all I've read so far, so there is likely more.
[12:55:07] <boru> All of the studies are publically available. Ignorance on the subject is a choice.
[12:55:22] <boru> I haven't found any studies which suggest the opposite, either.
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[12:56:57] <boru> Personally, I spend as little time as I can wearing those masks e.g. mostly working from home, avoiding public transport or other areas where wearing them is legally required.
[12:57:51] <boru> The health concerns surrounding microplastics are fairly well documented, fwiw.
[12:58:53] <FatPhil> I've seen chattering on the internet about all kinds of bullshit, and it's all been non-scientific bullshit. E.g. "O2 deprivation gives you cancer and masks bring on O2 deprivation". All complete codswallop.
[12:59:32] <boru> Yeah, you're trying to lump what I've said into the pseudoscience camp. As I said, you can go and read the publications yourself.
[12:59:55] <FatPhil> what publications - there's only bullshit as far as I can see
[13:01:31] <boru> I really hate when people are too lazy to go and read research themselves. But here's one on a spoon: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
[13:01:35] <systemd> ^ 03COVID-19: Performance study of microplastic inhalation risk posed by wearing masks
[13:01:43] <boru> There are plenty more you can go and find yourself.
[13:02:15] <c0lo> boru, reusable cloth mask with disposable hepa filter insert are a thing.
[13:02:35] <boru> What is your point?
[13:02:48] <FatPhil> Until that link, there was no research, only rumours of research. Google doesn't find anything even valuely scientific.
[13:02:51] <boru> Governments here are mandating FFP2 masks. That is what people are buying and wearing.
[13:03:02] <boru> They haven't mentioned anything about the health risks.
[13:03:05] <FatPhil> Unless you think CT crap like https://www.blacklistednews.com is scientific.
[13:03:08] <systemd> ^ 03Long-Term Mask Use May Contribute to Advanced Stage Lung Cancer, Study Finds ( https://www.blacklistednews.com )
[13:03:28] <c0lo> that you don't need to inhale microplastic and can still wear a mask, boru, that's my point.
[13:04:23] <boru> You're missing my point, and honestly, I'm not, nor do I wish to, try to convince either of you to change your behaviour.
[13:04:30] <FatPhil> But thanks for the link anyway
[13:04:37] <boru> Wear your mask, or don't. I really don't care.
[13:05:02] <FatPhil> In particular for outing yourself as someone who didn't even read it as far as the bit that said "wearing masks considerably reduces the inhalation risk of particles (e.g., granular microplastics and unknown particles)"
[13:05:19] <FatPhil> Yes, reduces.
[13:05:48] <boru> More from them, here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov wrt mask disposal
[13:05:50] <systemd> ^ 03Covid-19 face masks: A potential source of microplastic fibers in the environment
[13:06:07] <AzumaHazuki> so, wearing them means overall LESS risk of microplastic inhalation? bizarre
[13:06:19] <boru> From the outside air, yes.
[13:06:48] <boru> Feel free to read the articles in their entirety at your leisure, rather than cherry picking parts to satisfy your confirmation bias.
[13:07:07] <FatPhil> AzumaHazuki: only by negligible amounts "Wearing an N95 mask reduces the inhalation risk of spherical-type microplastics by 25.5 times compared with not wearing a mask.
[13:07:42] <AzumaHazuki> i'd wonder about the effects of inhaling FROM the mask itself
[13:07:47] <AzumaHazuki> i change them out every shift, so...
[13:08:12] <boru> You can also check out the paper referenced in this article: https://sg.news.yahoo.com
[13:08:19] <systemd> ^ 03Covid-19 masks ‘cause plastic fibre inhalation – but we should still use them’
[13:08:25] <boru> I had to "acquire" the journal other ways.
[13:08:54] <boru> Anyway, back to work.
[13:11:14] <AzumaHazuki> i will take my chances with the masks. i keep them down whenever possible anyway; turns out the pharmacy rules just say "in high traffic areas or any time you're near another person"
[13:14:41] <Bytram> =cite https://sg.news.yahoo.com
[13:14:47] <systemd> <p><b>Journal Reference</b>:<br/><b>Covid-19 masks ‘cause plastic fibre inhalation – but we should still use them’</b>, <cite></cite> (DOI: <a href="https://doi.org/https://sg.news.yahoo.com/covid-19-masks-cause-plastic-122347698.html">https://sg.news.yahoo.com/covid-19-masks-cause-plastic-122347698.html</a>)</p>
[13:15:10] <Bytram> doubled it would work, but worth a chance
[13:15:18] <Bytram> s/l/t/
[13:15:18] <SedBot> <Bytram> doubted it would work, but worth a chance
[13:16:36] * Bytram just found out yesterday his godmother (aunt) had a fall, went to the hospital, was sent home, went back to the hospital, and now is in hospice.
[13:17:42] <Bytram> We were never that close, but still it's a bit of a shock. Making plans to go visit her today; fortunately it's relatively nearby,
[13:38:08] <c0lo> Zumi, I reckon you'll be safe if you just wear them instead of wearing them
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[13:56:36] <c0lo> =submit https://thestarphoenix.com
[13:56:41] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Foxconn Mostly Abandons $10 Bln Wisconsin Project Touted by Trump" (25p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[13:57:24] <c0lo> "due to unanticipated market fluctuations" ^^^
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[14:11:00] <FatPhil> OK, read to the results section ... "The amount of fiber-like microplastics in the blank case (i.e., without mask) was always higher than those of the cases with masks when suction time was less than 24 h, except for the activated carbon mask."
[14:14:19] <FatPhil> And the full table of numbers shows that unless your shift is 24hr long, even the cheaper disposable mask is better than nothing, and the less cheap disposable one still dominate until over 168hr.
[14:15:08] <FatPhil> Are you sure it's not your confirmation bias that's extracting "masks are bad, m'kay" from that paper?
[14:16:12] <c0lo> I'm lazy, FatPhil. Can you please copy/paste what happens with the ones with activate charcoal? Grateful, thanks.
[14:16:44] <FatPhil> Of course, your supposition that academics would put misleading conclusions in their abstract that they would contradict in the paper itself show a gross disdain for the academics in question.
[14:17:14] <boru> Try re-reading what I wrote rather than obnoxiously miss-stating what I actually said.
[14:17:19] <FatPhil> c0lo: TL;DR is they are cheap as fuck, <2c each, and they're basically a packet of particulate matter.
[14:18:02] <boru> But to address your point, the other paper I linked has studied mask disposal as being a source of microplastics in the environment in the first place.
[14:18:09] <FatPhil> boru: you said my quoting from, the abstract was "cherry picking". What did you mean by that, then, if I've misinterpretted.
[14:19:16] <boru> You're deliberately trying to lump what I said into the pseudoscience crap with "masks are bad, m'kay".
[14:19:25] <FatPhil> wrong
[14:19:28] <boru> You asked for references, I gave them to you.
[14:19:30] <FatPhil> that was ages earlier
[14:19:36] <FatPhil> conversation had moved on
[14:19:46] <boru> Please re-read what I said in response to AzumaHazuki.
[14:20:00] <boru> Moved on? Are you being serious now?
[14:20:02] <FatPhil> In particular, that was *before* you posted the link.
[14:20:19] <boru> You're the king of moving goalposts sometimes, man, really.
[14:20:37] <FatPhil> Nope.
[14:20:40] <c0lo> In regards with efficacy? (I mean, at least for capturing smoke and chemical fumes, I was under the impression activate carbon rulez)
[14:20:57] <FatPhil> You are confusing what I said before you posted the link with what I said after you posted the link.
[14:20:59] <boru> It's good for liquids.
[14:21:19] <FatPhil> I am asking about what you meant in response to something I said about the link after you posted it.
[14:21:21] <boru> Okay, I'm not invested anymore.
[14:21:48] <boru> I meant exactly what I wrote. There's no ambiguity there.
[14:22:10] <FatPhil> Yes, it's unambiguously irrelevant to the proximal points.
[14:22:21] <boru> You hadn't read the paper fully, extracted the sentence only to profess that I had "outed" myself as doing the same as if it was your "QED"
[14:22:39] <boru> JFC, get a grip.
[14:23:24] <FatPhil> I have a grip. On numbers. In the table. In the link you posted. They contradict your initial claim.
[14:23:48] * boru sighs.
[14:24:20] <boru> I really have no intention of discussing this further with you. You're extrapolating something I said, which I didn't.
[14:24:44] <FatPhil> You called quoting from the abstract "cherry picking".
[14:25:12] <boru> Which is an accurate description of what you said.
[14:25:24] <boru> I think you're being obtuse, now.
[14:25:29] <boru> Really.
[14:25:53] <c0lo> boru, abandon what you said and restate it, that's the only way to chill FatPhil down. Worked for me a couple of times.
[14:26:03] <boru> But I'm honestly not invested in discussing it anymore. You may think as you like.
[14:26:24] <boru> No, I mostly value having discussions with FP, actually.
[14:26:36] <FatPhil> vice versa
[14:26:39] <boru> But sometimes I think we just need to agree to disagree.
[14:26:41] <c0lo> Me too.
[14:27:53] <c0lo> Sometimes his jaws are clenching hard on the form. A physiologic peculiarity of him, I reckon.
[14:28:07] <boru> Give me a while to finish work. I'll be back to discuss reverse osmosis water filters!
[14:28:35] <boru> Ah come on, don't speak about people as if they're not here. It's rude.
[14:28:48] <FatPhil> RO water tastes disgusting!
[14:28:56] <boru> You can re-mineralise it!
[14:29:11] <c0lo> I'm fully aware he's here and I want him to read it.
[14:29:24] <c0lo> Otherwise I'd PM you.
[14:29:39] <boru> We've wound each other up enough for today. Let's let the blood pressure return to normal for a bit.
[14:30:01] <c0lo> interesting insight if you don't expect rational reasons https://www.washingtonpost.com
[14:30:02] <systemd> ^ 03‘I’m still a zero’: Vaccine-resistant Republicans warn that their skepticism is worsening
[14:30:18] <c0lo> There, for a change of mind.
[14:30:43] <c0lo> (if you can call that having a mind)
[14:30:47] <boru> So they are becoming less sceptical, or what? That headline is confusing.
[14:30:59] <boru> Scepticism increasing is surely a good thing.
[14:31:05] <c0lo> Nope, that would be rational.
[14:31:21] <boru> I'm being partially facetious to lighten the mood.
[14:32:42] <c0lo> Scepticism <=/=> resistance in my vocabulary.
[14:33:22] <FatPhil> Is there skeptimism below par?
[14:33:27] <FatPhil> s/there/their/
[14:33:27] <SedBot> <FatPhil> Is their skeptimism below par?
[14:33:34] <boru> On an unrelated note, my copy of the updated revision of Better Embedded Systems Software by Koopman arrived today. I must say, it's a really great book to suggest managers read. It says so many of the things I'd like to be able to tell them face to face without being fired.
[14:33:54] <c0lo> They aren't skeptics, they are just resistent.
[14:34:19] <FatPhil> I don't reckon any managers have read The Mythical Man Month, which is the 101 text.
[14:34:30] <boru> True enough, or Peopleware.
[14:34:37] <boru> If The Soul of a New Machine.
[14:34:48] <boru> Or The Tao of Programming.
[14:35:54] <boru> Technical lead is about as far as I've gotten into management, and that was only because I could use architects as a meatshield.
[14:36:14] <boru> "They do the abstract stuff, talk to them"
[14:37:41] <c0lo> Huh, I functioned for a good while as a Software Dev Manager, some 50+ people. Also a stint of 2-3 years as QA manager. Today I refuse to do it.
[14:38:09] <boru> Once bitten, twice shy, I'd say.
[14:38:55] <c0lo> First, do no harm. It's impossible to avoid the mgmt overhead and, bottom line, I could not find a way to measure light enough and still derive a benefit as a manager.
[14:39:52] <boru> Aye, a lot of the tools available to you are good for PMs et al, but shite for engineers.
[14:40:09] <boru> So they become a chore to use, things fall apart immediately.
[14:40:33] <c0lo> Besides, producing bugs that I need to hunt and fix myself is way more fun and rewarding.
[14:40:43] <boru> Process is good, but execution usually leaves much to be desired.
[14:41:22] <boru> That's been my experience from startups to small companies to big companies.
[14:41:51] <boru> And the public sector, well, that was expoentially worse.
[14:42:00] <boru> Exponentially, even.
[14:42:51] <c0lo> I found even the process needs to be quite sketchy and require a lot of common sense in running it. The most damaging is taking the process as the end and not the mean.
[14:42:53] <boru> Not what you'd think from a pan-European scientific organisation, but again, once bitten, twice shy. One experience in the public sector was more than enough.
[14:43:09] <boru> Aye, I agree with that.
[14:43:32] <boru> If you need a bucket for process management, then you're not even at the races.
[14:43:52] <boru> And don't get me started on this agile shite.
[14:44:32] <FatPhil> One of the few good things I can say about the scrum/agile buzzwordism is that if done correctly devs are protected from external managers who don't know anything about tecnical matters. We devs in Nokia had a national karate champion as our meatshield to protect us.
[14:44:42] <c0lo> The mgmt books I liked to most are "The Goal" and "Critical chain"
[14:45:00] * boru chuckles.
[14:45:38] <boru> To this day, I still hate the phrase "...and when do you think that will be finished?"
[14:45:45] <boru> It just makes me want to defenestrate them.
[14:46:39] <c0lo> Heh, I'm already used with it. My trick is to do as they like: move fast and break things.
[14:46:41] <FatPhil> where do you stand on "design one to throw away"?
[14:46:55] <c0lo> They'll come back to me to fix them anyway.
[14:47:16] <boru> Feasibility studies are good. The output is rarely suitable to be incorporated into production code.
[14:47:33] <c0lo> Oh, I'm constantly designing for throw away. In slices.
[14:47:37] <boru> So I usually view that statement as a trick.
[14:48:01] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Parler Re-Platformed as Apple Allows Social Network Back Into App Store - https://sylnt.us - FBI-was-missing-them
[14:48:14] <c0lo> I know I'll break an implementation, I take extra care with the interface definitions.
[14:48:45] <c0lo> Even those I'm throwing away one by one and incrementally replace them.
[14:48:50] <boru> If you know you'll break an implementation, don't refactor or rewrite until you have tests to tell you.
[14:49:45] <FatPhil> I think very few industries have ever adopted and stuck to that mantra. Perhaps aerospace and associated industries. But they can throw away 2/3 or 3/4.
[14:49:48] <boru> Solidifying interfaces early is good, though. Whether programming by contract, or silo programming in parallel, it results in less pain at integration.
[14:51:31] -!- inky has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[14:51:40] <FatPhil> But does the foo have a bar, or does it use a bar, or is it actually a type of bar!?!?
[14:51:55] <c0lo> Fortunately, I'm mostly alone in what I do. I don't even write Unit tests, I'm using the real thing (TM) (i.e functional tests then integration) to do the thing.
[14:53:27] <boru> So long as your functional tests aren't just your happy paths, I suppose.
[14:53:34] <FatPhil> I'm almost test-based. I want to know something works before I try to build anything larger around it. If it fails, the rest of the system won't even know it was being considered for use.
[14:53:51] <boru> Almost sounds like TDD! Run for the hills!
[14:55:00] <FatPhil> almost. but it kinda works.
[14:55:12] <c0lo> Not exclusively happy paths, never exhaustively bullet-proof functional tests.
[14:55:44] <FatPhil> I don't like the sound of formalised TDD, but I often follow some of the same behaviour patterns.
[14:55:47] <c0lo> A good amount of corner cases bombing out in the prototype launch.
[14:56:45] <c0lo> Formal BDD, then, FatPhil?
[14:56:50] <FatPhil> there are no "corner cases", there are only "valid inputs" and "invalid inputs"!
[14:57:02] <c0lo> Cucumber and all that? (large grin)
[14:57:14] <FatPhil> Butt-driven development?
[14:57:31] <c0lo> Hey, ho, you don't work with mobile, do you, FatPhil?
[14:57:39] <FatPhil> If it fails, everyone relying on your code gets to kick you in the butt?
[14:57:57] <FatPhil> Haven't done mobile for over half a decade.
[14:58:18] <c0lo> Yeah, sorta butt-driven, yeap.
[14:58:22] <c0lo> =w Behavior-driven development
[14:58:24] <systemd> In software engineering, behavior-driven development (BDD) is an Agile software development process that encourages collaboration among developers, QA - https://en.wikipedia.org
[14:58:55] <FatPhil> Get that buzzword nonsense off to #shitlords where it belongs.
[14:59:04] * boru chuckles.
[14:59:13] <boru> I agree -- feck off with your collaboration!
[14:59:22] <c0lo> (I have a lot of disdain for BDD. But then again I'm not coding business software)
[14:59:41] <boru> I came across that BDD stuff in control systems briefly.
[14:59:59] <c0lo> Well, FatPhil, you asked for it *here*.
[15:00:00] <boru> The guy pushing it loved documentation and SysML.
[15:00:04] <boru> He could produce gigabytes of it.
[15:00:54] <FatPhil> 1st para of that wiki makes me shudder.
[15:01:13] <boru> SysML, to me, just seems like UML for babies. It strikes me as something designed by someone whose girlfriend slept with a guy from IBM, so he created a new ML just to spite them.
[15:01:29] <FatPhil> It reeks of "we've only got a vague idea"
[15:01:32] <boru> Not that I have any love for UML.
[15:01:44] <boru> Sounds like all agile stuff.
[15:02:04] <boru> Agile might work for web development, but it sure as shite doesn't work anywhere else.
[15:02:47] <boru> There, you can implement atomic features with one line changes and what not. That is usually not the case in my line of work.
[15:04:20] <boru> Ah, anyway, I could gripe and moan about development processes all day. Most of the time they asymptotically approach the spiral model in execution, ime, because people just want to be able to say they follow process X for certification or ISO conformance or some such.
[15:04:42] <boru> Agile is the process du jour; in another decade, it'll be something else.
[15:05:05] <FatPhil> it's got nearly half a century of history to it now.
[15:05:48] <boru> I had better start finishing up so I can go outside and get the barbecue going. The sun is splitting the stones here today.
[15:07:17] <c0lo> "Agile might work for web development, but it sure as shite doesn't work anywhere else" Oh, but it does. You just have to break the norms et in stone by the gurus and their apostles.
[15:07:35] <c0lo> And break them intelligently.
[15:08:19] <boru> Yeah, you can't really do that for designing electronics or FPGAs. There is no output at the end of a sprint, as dictated by agile, until you're done with the whole thing.
[15:08:24] <c0lo> Which means a team that wants to get the result(s) and not just to be paid for it.
[15:08:51] -!- inky [inky!~inky@178.78.khx.uz] has joined #soylent
[15:09:00] <boru> Firmware, being so tightly coupled with hardware, doesn't really work either.
[15:09:09] <boru> I mean, in princple, you can apply agile to making dinner. It doesn't mean it's a good idea.
[15:09:45] <c0lo> I don't know how agile fits with logic in hardware, I must admit that.
[15:10:19] <boru> Well, even if you consider HDLs and firmware as software, which is a wide definition, it still doesn't really work.
[15:10:37] <c0lo> On software, on general purpose computers, one can make it work.
[15:10:48] <boru> You can write a module in a given sprint, but it's pretty useless by itself.
[15:11:03] <boru> So, based on that distinction, I wouldn't really consider it an output for a sprint.
[15:11:43] <c0lo> If you accept the definition of Agile by its apostles, you are right.
[15:12:06] <boru> I think we're coming to a point where we'll agree to disagree. I've had this very discussion several times, unfortunately, and each time it just makes me more allergic to agile.
[15:12:32] <c0lo> You can deliver something functional in a sprint, but necessary something usable by the end users.
[15:12:53] <c0lo> s/but/but not/
[15:12:53] <SedBot> <c0lo> You can deliver something functional in a sprint, but not necessary something usable by the end users.
[15:13:08] <boru> Aye, but that's just it. Lots of shops will say the're "agile", but they don't follow it. Everyone implements their own version. Personally, I think that's a good measure of how good a process is.
[15:13:39] <boru> Use parts of it, sure, but then don't call it agile.
[15:13:55] <c0lo> That what I said. Have the willingness/courage to make the process work for you.
[15:14:14] <boru> Or, you know, don't fix what's not broken.
[15:14:19] <c0lo> Common-sense and eyes on the goal will mostly do that.
[15:14:37] <c0lo> Adjust the process as many times as needed.
[15:15:20] <c0lo> Nothing is *not* broken. If it's not broken, it's dead Jim.
[15:15:49] <boru> I'm going AFK for a bit. I'd better get the barbecue lit before the other half gets home.
[15:17:05] <c0lo> (btw, I don't particularly want to call it agile. But it's neither waterfall, nor necessary incremental/spiral)
[15:17:15] <FatPhil> "lean"?
[15:18:07] <c0lo> Perhaps "lean" is closer. Process/mgmt frugal would be better.
[15:18:30] <c0lo> Only the bear necessities.
[15:18:38] <FatPhil> I fully approve of employing meatshields though!
[15:19:11] <c0lo> What a meatshield, precious?
[15:20:20] <FatPhil> In agile/scrum, the working members of the team are inaccessible to external teams.
[15:21:31] <c0lo> Heh, how does it work when the "team" that one works is 250+ over 5 timezones?
[15:22:13] <c0lo> (about 50 of them are middle-management asking when it will be ready?)
[15:22:32] <FatPhil> that's not an Agile Scrum team.
[15:23:05] <c0lo> Who said that agile/*Scrum*?
[15:23:19] <FatPhil> I did.
[15:23:44] <FatPhil> that's the structure that has the meatshields defined into it.
[15:24:14] <c0lo> Well, it's not, and all the developers aren't shielded by anything - the exterior is what defines the goal to keep your eyes on.
[15:24:33] <c0lo> And see it changing for quarter to quarter.
[15:24:46] <c0lo> s/for/from/
[15:24:47] <SedBot> <c0lo> And see it changing from quarter to quarter.
[15:24:57] <FatPhil> Yes, the thing that isn't X doesn't have the properties that X has. Point was what?
[15:30:45] <c0lo> That's still agile, just not by the definition of the gurus and apostles. It still delivers.
[15:30:54] <c0lo> ^^^ point
[15:33:23] <c0lo> (apologies, shoulda been more clear when I said "Well, it's not," - take it as "Indeed, it's not agile/scrum")
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[15:54:30] <c0lo> =submit https://www.vox.com
[15:54:33] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Vox" (1p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[15:58:26] <c0lo> https://www.politico.com
[15:58:27] <systemd> ^ 03South Korean president: Trump ‘beat around the bush’ on North Korea diplomacy
[16:01:26] <FatPhil> Pah, Lake Mead has nothing on the Aral Sea
[16:09:00] <c0lo> Ummm... Ok, let's try other lakes then.
[16:09:08] <c0lo> "rename Mosquito Lake State Park to Donald J. Trump State Park"
[16:09:19] <c0lo> https://apnews.com
[16:09:20] <systemd> ^ 03Ohio Republicans aim to rename state park after Donald Trump
[16:11:43] -!- kyonko has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[16:19:57] <FatPhil> Mosquitos are annoying fuckers. I think everyone will vote 'Aye'.
[16:22:24] <c0lo> When it comes to spaying insecticides, the difference may matter.
[16:23:09] <c0lo> If you ever feel the need to waste 5 minutes of your time with ineptitude downunder https://www.abc.net.au
[16:23:11] <systemd> ^ 03'Milkshake consent video' pulled amid mounting political backlash over 'woeful' campaign - ABC News
[16:27:26] <c0lo> The title and the first para worth reading https://www.betootaadvocate.com
[16:27:27] <systemd> ^ 03Murderer Who Got Caught Committing Murder On Video Found Guilty Of Murder
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[16:49:23] -!- inky [inky!~inky@37.186.mx.lms] has joined #soylent
[17:16:12] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - ‘Single-use Plastics’ to be Phased Out in Australia From 2025 Include Plastic Utensils and Straws - https://sylnt.us
[17:20:55] -!- inky has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[17:22:45] <c0lo> Agile in the proper formal sense https://www.salon.com
[17:22:46] <systemd> ^ 03Salon.com
[17:35:30] <bacterium> his next big project is MyPillowTalk, a walled-up garden of eden where fundamentalist puritans can discuss sex in a chaste and god-pleasing way
[17:38:30] <bacterium> upon registration, participants will be invited to disclose their gender: definitely male or definitely female, and then male participants will be presented with a run-of-the-mill social network interface, while females face a streamlined version, where all input fields are replaced by [submit] buttons
[17:40:43] -!- inky [inky!~inky@178.78.xpn.sp] has joined #soylent
[17:44:03] <FatPhil> there will be a "do you want children?" listbox with the options: 6, 7, 8, more
[17:51:10] <progo> so, no dick pics on the MyPillow social site?
[17:52:05] <progo> my friends on a podcast discussed for like 30 minutes whether My Pillow Guy's social site's policy of censoring the magical naughty TV-banned words was censorship going too far
[17:54:00] <c0lo> We are past the censoring age, into the "Cancelling culture" now. Get on with the times, progo.
[17:54:53] * progo self-cancels
[17:55:11] <c0lo> If you want to use magical naughty TV-banned words, you'll have to use Parler. Or Twitter.
[17:57:49] <progo> can sex workers (and everyone else) still post nude pics on twitter?
[17:59:56] <c0lo> Those aren't words. But do not despair, I reckon pornhub will be happy to. OnlyFans may even help with monetising.
[18:01:04] <progo> in my social media sphere I know a couple that does the onlyfans kind of porn without any bosses or producers. I tried to subscribe to their onlyfans, my bank said 'no' to them at 3:00 in the morning…
[18:01:13] <progo> and then my bank called MY WIFE at 8:00 sharp
[18:01:31] <progo> because the stupid bank can't follow our repeated orders to label our cards the right way around
[18:01:55] <progo> I never got around to trying again after the first kerfuffle
[18:03:08] <c0lo> Get an alipay account, maybe? Unless your SO speaks mandarin, you should be free of kerfuffles like that.
[18:03:17] <progo> ha ha
[18:04:44] <progo> we just don't appreciate an 8:00 phone call to the wrong partner, when we're sleeping
[18:09:14] <bacterium> progo: i don't think they will be able to avoid this particular dick pic: https://cnet.co
[18:09:16] <c0lo> Ummm... you reckon that getting that call when, eg, you two have sex at 8:00 AM would result in a more pleasant experience?
[18:09:48] <progo> c0lo: you answer the phone when you're having sex?
[18:10:52] <c0lo> 1. To be honest, I don't remember. 2. Do you need to answer to phone to appreciate the call?
[18:12:19] <progo> well I APPRECIATE the security, but it sure would be nice if all the bank transaction consent stuff went the other way around
[18:12:56] <progo> how about this: onlyfans gives me an electronic invoice ticket. I access my bank and positively confirm an order for my account to pay the onlyfans invoice.
[18:13:01] <progo> imagine if the world worked that way
[18:14:04] <c0lo> On the plus side. seems that your SO offers you less surprises than you offer her. Or maybe she opened an alipay account.
[18:16:26] <progo> well she wasn't surprised I wanted to pay a porn couple
[18:18:31] <c0lo> Well, you mean the kerfuffle was exclusively about the hour of the call?
[18:18:41] <progo> yes
[18:19:00] <progo> and both of us annoyed that the wrong person was called
[18:19:43] <c0lo> I see. Congrats.
[18:20:51] <c0lo> My suggestion about opening an alipay account (or one each) still stands as rational. Or reasonable... or something. No?
[18:21:34] <progo> I don't know anything about that but I'll look. and I'll probably file the whole thing as "this is too much trouble for a non-essential thing"
[18:21:47] <progo> I appreciate the suggestion, for sure
[18:24:56] <c0lo> (jut in case. alipay is the chinese alibaba payment business. And I should have grinned. Many times over if not for every message in this conversation. It wasn't a financial advise, you know?)
[18:25:28] <progo> [comment about GameStonk…] This is not financial advice.
[18:25:39] <progo> I thought it might have something to do with alibaba
[18:26:03] <progo> I'm interested, if it works with american banks and lets you dole out exactly as much as you expect to be charged, for a vendor
[18:27:33] <c0lo> I bought from aliexpress for a number of times. Pretty much the same experience as PayPal.
[18:27:57] <progo> okay then no
[18:28:04] <progo> paypal is a bank that refuses to submit to bank regulations
[18:28:07] <progo> :^)
[18:29:44] <chromas> Because unlike Big Bank, it doesn't get to write its own regulations
[18:29:58] <progo> touché
[18:30:16] <chromas> I bet PayPal wouldn't even get a bailout
[18:30:53] <progo> I saw a video essay saying that Starbucks is the bank with the most deposits in America
[18:31:27] <progo> they have a yuge number of people with more than 0 and maybe less than $100 in a bank account, for buying coffee
[18:31:30] <c0lo> Well, alipay on the other side can't afford not to follow the regulations https://theconversation.com
[18:31:31] <systemd> ^ 03China's record fine against Alibaba spells the end of big tech’s romance with the state
[18:31:41] <chromas> And McDonald's is the biggest real estate company
[18:31:49] <progo> indeed
[18:33:00] <chromas> If Alibaba dies then where will I find three different brands of the exact same product being resold on Amazon?
[18:33:43] <progo> does Russia have an on-demand retail monopoly?
[18:34:09] <chromas> They should. If they wanna compete with China, they've gotta do more than just propaganda campaigns.
[18:34:30] <chromas> Otherwise they're just competing with the US
[18:34:31] <c0lo> chromas, try banggood.com
[18:34:57] <chromas> Shouldn't that be bangwell?
[18:35:29] <c0lo> No seriously, no relation with OnlyFans.
[18:35:38] <c0lo> It's very SFW.
[18:35:59] <c0lo> https://www.banggood.com
[18:36:00] <systemd> ^ 03Banggood: Global Leading Online Shop for Gadgets and Fashion
[18:36:15] <progo> shiny
[18:52:16] <c0lo> =submit https://www.theguardian.com
[18:52:18] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Amazon to Bring Pay-by-palm Technology to Whole Foods" (16p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[18:52:49] <chromas> They should test it out in small regions first
[18:52:55] <chromas> it could be their Palm Pilot program
[18:53:24] <c0lo> Must be working only for vaxxed people, otherwise no microchips
[18:55:14] <c0lo> (gotta ketch some sleep. CU)
[18:55:21] <progo> I was looking at old palm pilots last night, like I might want to buy one
[18:55:42] <progo> and the photos… I know most sellers aren't great at making it beautiful, but those old screens had BAD contrast I think
[18:55:51] <progo> my nostalgic memory makes them seem better
[18:56:20] <progo> has anyone managed to bring the Palm OS's diary functions to Android, for use with a stylus and feeling like the old software?
[18:57:08] <progo> I know you can get Graffiti input; that's solved. I want the whole package with text fields dotted-underlined and stuff
[19:04:58] <Teckla> Hmmm, every 5 minutes, like clockwork, my Minecraft server on Digital Ocean complains about "Can't keep up!" Noisy neighbor? Hmmm hmm hmm.
[19:06:08] <progo> lots of cron tasks running on the same hardware, at 0 past the power plus (n) × 5 minutes?
[19:06:30] <progo> always pick a random minute for your cron tasks
[19:06:53] <progo> *0 past the hour
[19:10:13] <Teckla> Ah, I guess it could be a new local issue, rather than a noisy neighbor... maybe it started when Linux last updated
[19:14:50] <progo> well I was presuming it was other customers on the same box. could be you
[19:46:54] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - How Product Placements May Soon be Added to Classic Films - https://sylnt.us - Just.......No
[20:03:31] -!- inky has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[20:15:48] <chromas> They're already doing that in syndicated tv shows for years
[20:16:35] <chromas> might've even been pre-soylent, I read about some company who's only service was inserting ads into tv shows
[20:16:55] <chromas> changing billboards, tv screens, can labels
[20:17:18] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Microsoft Says Mandatory Password Changing is "Ancient and Obsolete" - https://sylnt.us - HUNTER2
[20:17:36] * chromas updates password to cunter2
[20:34:13] <Bytram> chromas: FYI, that upstart story submission dropped a ">" in a list of recommended chars; see: https://soylentnews.org
[20:34:15] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews Comments | Microsoft Says Mandatory Password Changing is "Ancient and Obsolete" ( https://soylentnews.org )
[20:38:52] <chromas> =blame Canada
[20:38:52] * systemd points at chromas
[20:39:52] <Bytram> lol; I'm fixing the story now; I'm wondering how the other scrapers fared with it?
[20:40:45] <chromas> Works fine in Storybot
[20:41:08] <chromas> newscat returns an almost empty page so there's probably a bug in my script
[20:42:22] <Bytram> It's a bit tricky as it is easily confused as being part of a tag and fall through the cracks. Good Luck!
[20:43:44] <Bytram> story updated. given it a few minutes to let the story update make it through the cache
[20:44:00] <chromas> nah they have it properly escaped in the article (&gt;)
[20:44:23] <chromas> it's probably my crappy little unescaping function missing out on something
[20:44:39] <chromas> or the opposite. it should be leaving it alone
[20:45:25] <Bytram> Heh. I'm well reminded of trying to test unicode / UTF-8 support on the site! What a PITA that was!!
[20:45:42] <Bytram> yes, leave it alone.
[20:45:59] <chromas> no u
[20:46:45] <Bytram> btw, have you checked the Hall of Fame lately? upstart has risen to the top of the submissions list!
[20:47:44] <chromas> I saw the journal entry
[20:52:07] <chromas> rehash--
[20:52:07] <Bender> karma - rehash: -7
[20:52:15] <chromas> Why's the Intro Copy field always so tiny?
[20:53:56] <Bytram> chromas: The size of the text appearing in the field or the size of the text-entry field in which the extended copy's text goes?
[20:54:07] <chromas> size of the field
[20:55:31] <Bytram> there's a user pref where you can set the site you prefer. IIRC, mine is about 20 rows of 80 chars or so
[20:55:32] <chromas> the initial "preview" editor is the one I'm bitching about today
[20:55:41] <Bytram> nod
[20:56:05] <Bytram> try editing stories on a cell phone!
[20:56:07] <chromas> Should be the maximum width like the Notes and Delete reason ones
[20:56:18] <Bytram> Not. Fun.
[20:56:19] <chromas> and also a lot taller
[20:58:16] <Bytram> lemme check some stuff... biab
[21:00:58] <Bytram> Take a look at your setting page. https://soylentnews.org
[21:01:00] <systemd> ^ 03chromas - SoylentNews User
[21:01:23] <Bytram> click on the "Comments" tab
[21:01:34] <Bytram> scroll down to where you see:
[21:01:57] <Bytram> Posting
[21:01:57] <Bytram> Comment Box Size
[21:02:24] <Bytram> You have: Columns: 50 Rows: 19
[21:02:29] <Bytram> You have: Columns: 50 Rows: 10
[21:02:35] <chromas> Wow. Such ancient. Nobody sizes their fields by columns anymore :)
[21:03:06] <Bytram> Mine is: Columns: 60 Rows: 30
[21:03:47] <Bytram> at times those are still loo small, and others too large. Seems to work well enough most of the time
[21:03:56] <chromas> weird that it affects the story editor
[21:04:15] <Bytram> "Also applies to other large text boxes"
[21:04:16] <chromas> that's why instead of columns, it should just set the width to 100%
[21:04:36] <chromas> This is why Jesus invented CSS
[21:05:08] <Bytram> Slashdot was originally written back when HTML 2.0 was around
[21:05:54] <chromas> And they've never updated it since
[21:05:55] <Bytram> late 1995 IIRC
[21:06:12] <Bytram> yep
[21:08:23] <chromas> Has anybody else noticed that Audacity sucks but nobody's bothered to make anything better?
[21:10:04] <Bytram> I'd be interested to know if you ever find something better
[21:10:13] <chromas> I sure haven't
[21:10:38] <chromas> There used to be one called glame that was supposed to be the gimp of audio. I think it died 20 years ago though :(
[21:13:04] <Bytram> OOps! I had both your and my config page up; made and saved a change... might have been your instead of mine.
[21:13:39] <Bytram> On the comments tap, scroll down to: "User Page Comment Listing" and check you setting.
[21:14:41] -!- inky [inky!~inky@141.136.nz.igt] has joined #soylent
[21:14:41] <chromas> it's on the second option. I dunno what it was before
[21:15:33] <chromas> man I wish I pad permissions to see other people's configuration page
[21:16:01] <Bytram> easiest way I found to tell? Load your opening settings page: User Page Comment Listing
[21:16:02] <chromas> oh yeah there's ocenaudio, Forgot about that one
[21:16:09] <Bytram> ugh
[21:16:19] <Bytram> easiest way I found to tell? Load your opening settings page: https://soylentnews.org
[21:16:21] <systemd> ^ 03chromas - SoylentNews User
[21:16:49] <Bytram> scroll down down down until you see the list of your comments
[21:17:06] <Bytram> is that how you remember seeing them listed there?
[21:17:18] <chromas> I guess so
[21:17:48] <chromas> I dunno. I think I left it default. Anyhow, I don't usually go there so, debugging your misteaks aside, I don't really care about the setting :D
[21:18:23] <chromas> But I did post a story like a big girl so
[21:21:03] <chromas> hm I thought ocenaudio was open source but no. well if I'm going closed-source I may as well switch over to reaper, which was made by some of the winamp guys
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[21:32:12] <Bytram> the llama folk?
[21:32:21] <chromas> yeah
[21:33:42] <chromas> hm, so audacity 3 was released last month, but it's not in the arch repos
[21:33:55] <chromas> also I used 3 like 12 years ago, so I guess it's about time it was released
[21:36:33] <Bytram> Huh... What's the hurry? Should prolly given it another year or decade or two! ;)
[21:36:58] <chromas> I think they're just taking after Gimp & Enlightenment
[21:37:48] <chromas> Trying the new one. Looks the same; Still takes 8 seconds to load off an nvme ssd
[21:37:51] <Bytram> nod nod
[21:38:28] <chromas> comboboxes are fixed. Before, the clickable area was offset from the drawn area, which was weird
[21:40:07] <Bytram> thanks for pushing out a story!
[21:40:13] <Bytram> time for a nap
[21:40:17] <Bytram> laters!
[21:42:09] <chromas> a long time ago, on some MTV crap, I saw an audio editor where the tracks were vertical. I've never seen that anywhere else
[21:45:48] <Bytram> is that good?
[21:46:15] <chromas> Probably only on a vertically tall monitor. Anyhow, I've always wondered what it was
[21:48:05] <Bytram> got a story pushed out; time for a nap
[21:48:07] <Bytram> laters
[21:49:33] <chromas> In Linux, I have to click the track after recording before I can apply an effect. Not needed in Windows
[21:50:01] <chromas> Such horrible. It's like how Firefox moved the settings around in the menu for each different operating system
[21:50:28] <chromas> though I think that was inherited from Netscape
[21:50:46] * chromas looks for some other things to bitch about
[21:53:56] <bacterium> i was thinking about cocs alot lately, and i think i want to write my own, but call it something else, like censorshi-undoing treaty or something
[21:55:16] <bacterium> it will police the behavior outside of a project only, saying that when someone starts attacking a developers for their views expressed in public forums unrelated to project, the attacker must be blacklisted
[21:56:46] <bacterium> and will leave the intra-project communication guidelines to the actual community
[21:57:14] <chromas> That seems wrong. The attacker should be able to boot the dev from his own project
[21:57:26] -!- halibut [halibut!~halibut@185.191.jjy.hxz] has joined #soylent
[22:00:43] <bacterium> yeah, ideally the free soft projects would be stuffed by clueless outsiders hell-bent on making their personal views about sex universal, but an occasional project should still be able to produce actual software, so it's a give-and-take
[22:03:20] <chromas> Collaboration/Unity Negation Treaty
[22:05:17] <bacterium> ^^ another unabbreviated triumph ^^
[22:13:45] <chromas> hm, today I learned the recaptcha checkbox checking can expire
[22:16:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Educational Distro Escuelas Linux 6.13 Introduces OBS Studio and Kolibri - https://sylnt.us
[22:55:57] <FatPhil> One thing that's particularly jarring, literally, about some of my sneezes, is that it causes my radiator to resonate like a glockenspiel for about 5 seconds or more afterwards.
[22:56:17] <FatPhil> I think I need to send the idiot robot around again.
[23:00:24] <FatPhil> c0lo: Williams vs. Craigie, part 1, today was fantastic
[23:00:59] <FatPhil> if you can get the BBC coverage with the punditry and interviews that will increase your appreciation of it.
[23:16:34] <chromas> is it a regular sneeze or do you do the unnecessary yell-out-after-sneeze thing a lot of people do?
[23:18:34] <FatPhil> normally, I try to suppress it as much as physically possible.
[23:19:13] <FatPhil> these did have shockwaves. But *no* vocalisation.
[23:19:39] <FatPhil> I heard the first bit, you don't need to tell me you just sneezed.
[23:19:48] <chromas> I've never heard a loud sneeze that wasn't just mostly vocalisation. I call fake noose
[23:20:32] <chromas> You should record the radiator on your pc then put it into lmms or something and turn it into a song
[23:20:43] <FatPhil> I think I started hating those about two decades ago, and have deliberately tried to avoid.