#soylent | Logs for 2021-04-13

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[00:07:14] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Chinese Government Fines Alibaba $3.7 Billion for Anti-Competitive Behaviour - https://sylnt.us
[00:35:22] <progo> I'm on the board of directors of a local amateur computer club. one director sent this to some of the board members, including me. the only relationship I have with him is that we're on the board together.
[00:35:22] <progo> > I attended my oldest grandson [ … ]'s wedding yesterday. Truly amazing...the wedding videos were on Instagram within hours. See attached video.
[00:35:46] <progo> I wonder if there's a blog for oddball emails like this.
[00:36:50] <Runaway1956> Wedding videos. In my day, a photo or two were all you could expect.
[00:37:25] <progo> I got voted into the board because I'm a young 40 years old, compared to the rest of them. why do they think I'm a friend?
[00:37:27] <progo> *sigh
[00:37:28] <Runaway1956> #yt mama don't take my kodacrhome
[00:37:28] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com -- Paul Simon - Kodachrome (HQ)
[00:37:42] <progo> *41 … 42? something now. I was ~40 when I was voted in
[00:38:39] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[00:39:02] <Runaway1956> better vidya here https://www.youtube.com
[00:39:04] <systemd> ^ 03Paul Simon - Kodachrome (+lyrics)
[00:39:34] <progo> I only had photos at my wedding
[00:39:57] <progo> photographer was an ex girlfriend. producer/coordinator was another ex girlfriend
[00:41:39] <Runaway1956> TBH, when I bought my first Canon SLR, I learned quickly that Fuji Film was superior in most cases
[00:41:45] <Runaway1956> they made faster film
[00:44:58] -!- khallow [khallow!~4590ab34@ldil-11-041-573-42.static.bresnan.net] has joined #soylent
[00:45:05] <khallow> howdy
[00:45:10] <chromas> progo: could be a spam tho
[00:45:18] <Runaway1956> doodie
[00:45:38] <progo> chromas: compromised email account? maybe
[00:45:53] <chromas> or a malware on his box
[00:46:05] <progo> does icloud-content.com belong to the ghost of steve jobs?
[00:46:36] <progo> … yes
[00:47:00] * Runaway1956 checks Amazon for a long cool woman in a black dress
[00:47:07] <progo> link goes to an actual mp4 file from icloud.com (from the junk email)
[00:47:16] <progo> I think this isn't spam. the board member is just lonely
[00:47:49] <chromas> Ask him if he would like to join you in a barbecue
[00:47:52] <progo> 0.5GB. screw this
[00:47:59] <chromas> Then have him bring the chips, meat and beer
[00:48:04] <progo> ha ha
[00:48:25] -!- c0lo [c0lo!~c0lo@zqs-646-162-243-166.static.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #soylent
[00:48:41] <c0lo> =submit https://www.forbes.com
[00:48:45] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Why Uber, DoorDash and Carvana Got Riskier Post Earnings" (74p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[00:49:30] <c0lo> =submit https://www.aljazeera.com
[00:49:32] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Ukraine Turns to Turkey as Russia Threatens Full-scale War" (34p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[00:50:22] <c0lo> =submit https://www.theguardian.com
[00:50:25] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Ukrainian Soldier Reportedly Killed in Artillery Fire From Russia-backed Troops" (11p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[00:53:53] <c0lo> =submit https://www.dw.com
[00:53:57] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Ukraine: G7 Warns Russia Over Military Build-up" (13p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[00:54:34] <c0lo> =submit https://www.dailysabah.com
[00:54:37] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Russia Urges Turkey, Others to Stop Supplying Arms to Ukraine" (15p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[00:55:53] <c0lo> =submit https://foreignpolicy.com
[00:55:55] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Ukraine Needs a Clear Path to NATO Membership" (1p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[00:56:23] <Runaway1956> Does NATO need a neo-Nazi member?
[00:58:10] <c0lo> =submit https://www.wsws.org
[00:58:12] <systemd> ✓* Sub-ccess! "08US Sends Two Warships Into the Black Sea as Russia Warns of “Full-scale Hostilities” With NATO-b" (36p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[00:58:54] <c0lo> =submit context for all ukraine above https://www.wsws.org
[00:58:56] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Ukraine Approves Strategy to “Recover” Crimea, Threatening All-out War With Russia" (45p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[00:59:13] <c0lo> ^^^ that happened 3 weeks ago
[01:01:01] <c0lo> Runaway1956, will US take side of a neo-Nazi? You bet it will, paid by your taxes.
[01:13:57] <AzumaHazuki> c0lo, you can't cal people Nazis anymore. It's ruuuuuude. And has no meaning since it's been overused. Even if someone is flying the swastika or Odal-rune flag
[01:14:02] <AzumaHazuki> don't call things what they are. it's uncivil
[01:15:13] <Handy> Uncivil? Yeah, hi there 'zumi.
[01:17:11] * Handy laughs at ignore lists
[01:23:30] <khallow> c0lo, what does it matter if there's some neo-nazis in the Ukraine when we're ignoring the equivalent fascists in Russia who are in charge? Putin has this thing going on.
[01:27:05] <Runaway1956> IMO, Putin isn't as bad as a lot of people think
[01:31:16] <Bytram> He's worse
[01:32:31] -!- boru` [boru`!~boru@qxkl-02-306-846-774.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #soylent
[01:32:34] -!- boru has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by boru`!~boru@qxkl-02-306-846-774.dynamic.mnet-online.de))]
[01:32:36] <AzumaHazuki> No, for real. Don't call a Nazi a Nazi or he'll get mad and that would be uncivil and wrong and SO MUCH FOR THE TOLERANT LEEEEEEEEEEFT!
[01:32:36] boru` is now known as boru
[01:35:59] <khallow> just remember, Runaway that he's ex-KGB. That kind doesn't rise as high as Putin did without blood on their hands. I think that's also the reason for the Russian infatuation with killing people with poison and radioactive materials.
[01:36:14] <khallow> The rot starts at the head
[01:37:35] <AzumaHazuki> okay, off to work. 4 IV shifts in a row staeting tomorrow. good thing i've somehow picked up some nutso speed boost on the last one
[01:37:41] -!- AzumaHazuki has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[01:38:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> i can't decide what kinda pistol uncle joe wants to buy me
[01:38:53] <Runaway1956> I would think a 1911
[01:39:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, i don't have a lot of options and that's the major one.
[01:40:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> i refuse to hold a pistol with two fingers and a thumb, so anything made for concealed carry is out.
[01:40:13] * Runaway1956 is partial to Springfield Commanders
[01:40:18] * TheMightyBuzzard has large hands
[01:41:28] <khallow> Get a TEC-9 and wear shorts that come up to your knees.
[01:41:32] <Bytram> what was that pistol a youtuber had someone shoot at him through a book(?) cept the book didn't block the bullet and it killed him? desert eagle or somethin?
[01:41:56] <Bytram> s/someone/fiancee/
[01:41:56] <SedBot> <Bytram> what was that pistol a youtuber had fiancee shoot at him through a book(?) cept the book didn't block the bullet and it killed him? desert eagle or somethin?
[01:41:57] <khallow> Shoulda used a math book.
[01:41:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> and the muscle between my thumb and index finger looks like i've used tools a lot in my life, which i have, so anything that doesn't have the 1911 swoopy doodad means i get two slices in my hand from the slide with every shot
[01:42:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, that'd work too but those are spensive and not cheap to shoot either.
[01:42:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> khallow, shoulda used the tax code
[01:42:56] <Bytram> =g desert eagle pistol
[01:42:57] <systemd> https://www.magnumresearch.com - Home - Magnum Research, Inc. | Desert Eagle pistols and BFR ...
[01:44:07] <Bytram> BFR? Wasn't that a codename for Musk's ITS/Starship?
[01:44:20] <Runaway1956> https://www.youtube.com
[01:44:22] <systemd> ^ 03Desert Eagle vs Bowling Ball
[01:44:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> thinking either a rock island m1911 GI or a browning buck mark hunter
[01:45:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> the latter's a .22lr but it has a 7.5" barrel, so it's relatively easy to put a lot of smaller rounds in someone instead of one or two big ones.
[01:47:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> i honest to shit can't fire most semi-auto pistols more than once because the slide cuts through my hand
[01:50:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya know, i wouldn't even have bothered buying a pistol but uncle joe sends me all this money then tries to fuck with gun rights
[01:50:59] <Bytram> =g You're holding it wrong
[01:50:59] <systemd> https://www.engadget.com - Apple responds to iPhone 4 reception issues: you're holding the ...
[01:51:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> and tn goes constitutional carry a couple days back
[01:52:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, naw, if i didn't have carpal tunnel going on, i could damned near pinch a brick in half with my grip.
[01:53:22] <Bytram> it's not c/t for me, but I hears ya...
[01:53:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> as it stands though, holding a paintbrush for a few hours has me about ready to jam my hand in a cooler full of ice
[01:54:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> a freakin paintbrush. like 3oz. and it feels like my hand's being stabbed after half an hour.
[01:54:37] <Bytram> just seemed to be a fun repartee to reference Job's "You're holding it wrong" out of context, but still seemingly apropos
[01:55:12] <Bytram> that's to take your mind off you allergies?
[01:55:28] * Bytram lobs in his dropped "R"
[01:55:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh they're not all that terrible today. normal spring day. yesterday sucked pretty hard though.
[01:56:21] <Bytram> I do hope you're feeling better, I figure I've got ~3 weeks adore mine start attacking me in earnest
[01:56:35] <Bytram> s/adore/beforee/
[01:56:35] <SedBot> <Bytram> I do hope you're feeling better, I figure I've got ~3 weeks beforee mine start attacking me in earnest
[01:57:17] * Bytram needs to do more stretching of his forearms
[01:57:21] <Bytram> brb
[01:58:31] <Runaway1956> FWIW TMB, a government model is as large a weapon as I want to hold in my hands
[01:58:45] <Runaway1956> My hands aren't especially large,
[01:58:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's about as small as i can get away with in semi-auto
[01:59:10] <Runaway1956> Anything bigger, I don't think I could get a good grip on it
[02:00:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> might even get a 10 round mag just for the extended grip
[02:07:49] <Runaway1956> Just walked past the wife's computer, and had to take a second look
[02:08:03] <Runaway1956> Chicken of the Tree, solid white Brown Squirrel meat
[02:13:14] <Bytram> only noticed gray or red squirrels around here
[02:17:19] -!- Handy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[02:21:31] <Runaway1956> Black squirrels are the ones that matter, because they are such a minority
[02:37:00] -!- Handy [Handy!~9c922e9e@156.146.kj.npo] has joined #soylent
[02:46:41] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Sacred “Back” Button - https://sylnt.us - ⌘-Z
[02:51:39] <Bytram> Runaway1956: s/black/secret/
[02:58:24] <Fnord666> Kimber >> Rock Island
[02:58:40] <Fnord666> Ruger >> Browning
[03:00:41] <Fnord666> But for .45 go with FNX-45 or a Glock 21
[03:01:17] <Bytram> what's that in metric? ;)
[03:01:22] <Fnord666> 10mm
[03:01:34] <Fnord666> ish
[03:01:48] <Bytram> gnawed gnawed
[03:04:20] <Fnord666> Have you spotted your 10,000th story yet?
[03:04:39] <Bytram> got a couple more to go...
[03:04:58] <Fnord666> I figured you wanted to pick a winner
[03:05:12] <Fnord666> for such a milestone
[03:05:39] <Bytram> have ~10 stories that were buried (release date/time < date site opened) happens if ever typo the release date/time field
[03:11:00] <Fnord666> Yeah, I've had that happen to me too but I've usually been able t orecover them
[03:11:40] <Bytram> Apparently I've had more time to practice!
[03:14:00] <Fnord666> The thing that concerns me is why do Doctors call their work place a practice?
[03:14:24] <Fnord666> I should hope they know what they're doing by that point
[03:15:03] <Bytram> people are complicated
[03:15:45] <Bytram> physiologically and otherwise
[03:18:16] * TheMightyBuzzard scratches his head
[03:18:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> why did we run a story on ceo pay?
[03:20:22] <FatPhil> netteridge says no.
[03:20:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> it ain't science, it ain't tech, it ain't news, it ain't even politics.
[03:22:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> Fnord666, yes, and the prices reflect it in a huge way.
[03:23:20] <Fnord666> Very true
[03:23:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> glock would cut me, not an option
[03:24:22] <Fnord666> Glock gen5 have modular baskstraps, including ones with a beavertail to prevent slie bites
[03:24:31] <Fnord666> s/baskstraps/backstraps/
[03:24:32] <SedBot> <Fnord666> Glock gen5 have modular backstraps, including ones with a beavertail to prevent slie bites
[03:24:40] <Fnord666> s/slie/slide/
[03:24:40] <SedBot> <Fnord666> Glock gen5 have modular baskstraps, including ones with a beavertail to prevent slide bites
[03:25:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> heh... beavertail
[03:27:16] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: Editorial discretion.
[03:27:33] <Bytram> plus COVID-19
[03:28:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> editorial discretion was a given, i was wondering about the thought process
[03:28:12] <Fnord666> + careers and education
[03:28:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> the covid thing was incidental to an anecdote
[03:29:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> Fnord666, not particularly unless we're saying "hey, be a ceo and you get paid a lot"
[03:30:11] <Fnord666> ok, editorial discretion then
[03:30:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> oooooh! my turn!
[03:30:51] <Fnord666> lol
[03:30:53] <Bytram> and a *hospital* (where I'd go if I caught COVID-19) treats its employee of the month (under extremely trying conditions) like crap... how well are they gonna treat me? OTOH, CEO takes home even more $millions. Ergo, CEO is looking out for #1 (self).
[03:31:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> user tmb: eds suck!
[03:31:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, don't see how they're connected at all.
[03:33:03] <FatPhil> then comment as such on the story
[03:33:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> but mostly, i really hate seeing politically biased business narrative stories
[03:33:29] <Bytram> I saw Fnord666 had pushed it out, saw COVID, thought it would likely encourage discussion, gave him the benefit of the doubt.
[03:33:48] * TheMightyBuzzard shurgs
[03:34:49] <Bytram> Any ed can veto any other ed's story -- I've done it, and had it done to me -- at the time did not seem to warrant that.
[03:35:00] * Bytram yawns
[03:35:00] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into Bytram's gaping mouth
[03:35:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> user request: less non-tech business please. specially when it's guaranteed to end up partisan flamebait.
[03:36:03] <Bytram> fwiw, It was well nigh midnight when I 2nded the story.
[03:36:12] <Bytram> noted.
[03:36:42] * TheMightyBuzzard does a happy dance
[03:36:54] <Bytram> editor request: less trolling by users
[03:37:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> i hardly ever get to say eds suck. yall need to step up yalls game.
[03:37:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, you must be new here
[03:37:19] <Bytram> lol
[03:37:20] <Fnord666> Agreed. I do appreciate your feedback and will try to steer clear of the non-tech business stories in the future
[03:37:24] <Bytram> hmmm
[03:37:52] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: eds suck, eh?
[03:38:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> Fnord666, if it gots a science or tech angle, you'll hear not a word from me
[03:38:03] <Bytram> .kick TheMightyBuzzard
[03:38:03] -!- TheMightyBuzzard was kicked from #soylent by Aphrodite!Aphrodite@dodekatheon.olympus.gr [(Bytram (martyb)) No reason given]
[03:38:12] <Fnord666> lol
[03:38:12] -!- TheMightyBuzzard [TheMightyBuzzard!~TheMighty@Soylent/Staff/Developer/TMB] has joined #soylent
[03:38:12] -!- mode/#soylent [+v TheMightyBuzzard] by Aphrodite
[03:38:15] * TheMightyBuzzard laffs
[03:38:26] <Bytram> ROFL!
[03:38:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> well everyone else gets to say it
[03:38:49] <Bytram> not me, not yet.
[03:38:53] <chromas> interrupt request: 7
[03:38:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> we should see if we can poach timothy
[03:39:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> or make c0lo an ed
[03:39:54] * Bytram was never one for poaching, more of an over easy or an omelet kind-of-guy
[03:40:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> we're lettin down the grand tradition of pushing crappy stories that users can bitch about
[03:40:14] <chromas> is timothy a reddit editor?
[03:40:33] <chromas> TheMightyBuzzard: what do you mean? you were just bitchin' about it :D
[03:40:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> dunno, was a terrible /. ed
[03:40:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> i know, but that's like the second time i ever got to
[03:41:19] <Bytram> intentional typos to encourage "discussion"?
[03:41:30] * TheMightyBuzzard misses cmn32480
[03:41:31] <Fnord666> Well, at least we got to brighten your day a bit
[03:41:41] * chromas constructs a post that combines systemd, xml, Trump, Biden and wasted beer just for TheMightyBuzzard
[03:41:54] <Bytram> ==> page views ==> ad impressions ==? $$
[03:42:24] <Fnord666> TheMightyBuzzard I'm sure I can mispell somethign or anotehr.
[03:42:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> Fnord666, truth. a good laugh makes it all worth it. why ya think we keep chromas around?
[03:43:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> Fnord666, see if you can get takyon to build an auto-typo function into his script. save ya the effort.
[03:43:41] <Bytram> His bot makes our lives so much easier!
[03:43:59] * Bytram has never used that script.
[03:44:34] * Bytram has used only the bare editor UI since day 1
[03:45:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> same same. i don likes the java scrips
[03:45:33] * Bytram yawns
[03:45:33] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into Bytram's gaping mouth
[03:45:55] <Bytram> sleepy time draws near
[03:46:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> Fnord666, price wouldn't really be an issue but i also want uncle joe to buy me a 70" tv and a hot water heater out of that check.
[03:47:10] <FatPhil> the think didn't like about the CEOs story was that the political narrative was just weak sauce, it was just trying to find any old reason to complain.
[03:47:38] * Bytram chips in for a magnifying glass and some sterno
[03:47:48] <FatPhil> some of the posters aligned with it with equally weak sauce.
[03:47:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya. that's to be expected any time pay comparisons come up
[03:48:21] <Fnord666> TheMightyBuzzard, yeah some compromise might be in order then to fit the old budget.
[03:48:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> cause comparing what you get to what someone else gets is by definition envy. you can't make a rational argument based on a character failing.
[03:49:06] <Bytram> if a CEO F's up, $millions golden parachute. Worker bee? sucks to be you.
[03:49:29] <Bytram> goose / ganer
[03:49:37] <Bytram> goose / gander
[03:49:59] <Fnord666> The "moving the goalposts" section was interesting
[03:50:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> ceo does things just a wee bit more important to the business prospering than sweeping the floor.
[03:50:48] * Bytram hasn't gotten to reading CEO story yet.
[03:51:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> Fnord666, eh, i didn't read past like the first paragraph or any of the comments. i ain't low enough on terrible arguments and yelling at each other at the moment to need to.
[03:51:28] <Bytram> so important that if s/he gets it wrong gets paid $millions?
[03:51:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, yep. floor sweeper gets paid if he misses a spot.
[03:53:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> seriously, man. that is a job with rarefied skills as requirements. skills that drastically and directly affect whether anyone has a job tomorrow or not.
[03:54:08] <Bytram> To whom much has been given, much is expected. If you F up, you did NOT earn your pay/etc. Don't expect us to pay you *extra* for your mistakes.
[03:54:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> i ain't sticking up for ceos who suck at their job any more than i would for them who're bad at another job. but they do deserve their pay or the board wouldn't pay them that much.
[03:55:36] <FatPhil> but that's a mutual backslapping club.
[03:56:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> then the shareholders need to do something about it. this is not the case in a business that runs well.
[03:56:13] <Bytram> boards cross-pollinate; IIUC board members can be CEOs of other companies. Welcome to the good-old-boy network, run amok.
[03:56:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> if you wanna talk golden parachutes though, you gotta throw out severance packages for the lowly peons as well.
[03:56:38] <FatPhil> depends on reasons for dismissal
[03:56:50] <c0lo> beautiful picture, ain't it? http://med.stanford.edu
[03:57:09] <FatPhil> some board members are kicked out because they're shit, and still given 7 figures
[03:57:38] <c0lo> =submit http://med.stanford.edu
[03:57:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> shoulda been kicked out when they voted themselves the parachute then. that's on the shareholders.
[03:57:41] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Jump in Cancer Diagnoses at 65 Implies Patients Wait for Medicare, According to Stanford Study" (8p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[03:58:19] <Bytram> CEO misjudges expenses, product demand, etc. and fires people who did what the CEO demands. Worker get nada? Is that what you are advocating?
[03:58:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> #smake Bytram
[03:58:40] * MrPlow smakes Bytram upside the head with a rolling pin
[03:58:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> when did you see me advocate that?
[03:58:57] <FatPhil> 3 lines back
[03:59:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> bullshit
[03:59:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> reread it
[03:59:14] <Bytram> === <TheMightyBuzzard> if you wanna talk golden parachutes though, you gotta throw out severance packages for the lowly peons as well.
[03:59:17] <FatPhil> learn to express yourself more clearly
[03:59:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes. severance packages are lesser golden parachutes.
[03:59:37] <FatPhil> same interpretation on rereading
[04:00:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> you can't throw one out without throwing out the other
[04:00:35] <FatPhil> actually, itt's even *worse* on rereading
[04:01:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> then you're being an immoral ass
[04:01:14] <FatPhil> the non-parallelism of "talk" vs. "throw out" is telling.
[04:01:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, my mistake. were you going to talk about something other than throwing out golden parachutes?
[04:01:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> don't bullshit me
[04:02:03] <FatPhil> sheesh, is english not your first language?
[04:02:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> merican. close enough.
[04:02:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> but when "talk" was going to be "rabid attacks upon", you don't get to bitch about the phrasing of the other adjective.
[04:03:00] <Bytram> I am doing my job, and very well, and becuse the highly paid CEO misjudges I lose my job. Or... to boost profits, laysoff/furloughs whole depts for several weeks, and then hires them back?
[04:03:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, yeah, and?
[04:03:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> you'd have the same situation at many levels of boss. that's not a ceo-unique thing.
[04:03:45] <c0lo> FatPhil, one of the ways TMB argues... attribute new meaning to old words. On the fly, as he feel the need during argumentation.
[04:03:47] <FatPhil> golden parachutes are also used to purge terrible exects.
[04:04:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, as are severance packages.
[04:04:06] <FatPhil> TheHumptyBuzzard
[04:04:34] <c0lo> "Peon severance" are "golden", not coppery or ironic.
[04:04:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, so you're in favor of golden parachutes or even indifferent?
[04:04:41] <Bytram> tmwhat is a "severance package" mean to you?
[04:05:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, paying someone money they have not put the hours in to earn upon termination.
[04:05:39] <Bytram> vacation time?
[04:05:44] <Bytram> sick time?
[04:06:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> no... several months extra pay without having been earned in any way.
[04:06:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> doesn't happen much in mcjobs but it's relatively common in people making closer to median.
[04:06:56] <c0lo> There's no diference from a peon severance which barely lst 2-3mo when strexhed and the golden parachute of 7 figures, see? They ae all the ame.
[04:07:14] <Bytram> not earned in any way == would have paid more to the employee if the company did not set it aside for such a situation
[04:07:17] <c0lo> Just like a moele hill is the same as Everest.
[04:07:43] <c0lo> Just a pile of earth and rocks.
[04:07:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, no, there isn't. one does a more important job than the other, makes a greater salary, and is apparently worth said employment condition if the board approves it.
[04:08:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> three months of a janitor's pay wouldn't be couch change to a ceo
[04:08:21] <Bytram> we've been here before
[04:08:32] <c0lo> Yes, yes, I know TMB. Don't bother argue.
[04:08:32] <Bytram> I'm going to bed
[04:08:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> nite
[04:09:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, you want to know why the board rarely objects to a golden parachute?
[04:09:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> because getting rid of a poorly performing ceo is worth it.
[04:10:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's "go the fuck away and stop causing us problems" money
[04:11:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> much like you'd damned well better give your sysadmins a decent severance package when you can them for doing a lousy job. they can cause you all kinds of problems on the way out.
[04:12:52] <FatPhil> interesting behaviour you're trying to incentivise there.
[04:13:27] <FatPhil> not many cobras in your part of the world, I conclude. Yet.
[04:13:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> practicality. the behavior of the whole world isn't the board's responsibility.
[04:14:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> and that parachute doesn't even get close to making up for the money they would have been paid if they'd stayed on.
[04:16:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> tl;dr if a five million payoff will save you twenty million in lawsuits, you pay it.
[04:18:08] <c0lo> Rrrright. The interest of a ceo is to get fired asap; the longer he stays in the job, the less golden parachute/day it mean.
[04:19:17] <c0lo> I he could be fired everyday... he's not have to work even a single day of his life :grin:
[04:19:30] <c0lo> s/he's/he'd/
[04:19:30] <SedBot> <c0lo> I he could be fired everyday... he'd not have to work even a single day of his life :grin:
[04:19:42] <c0lo> Self-evident, no?
[04:20:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> mathematically sound but missing the bit where nobody would hire him if he got fired even twice in a year.
[04:20:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> you gotta either win more often than not or you gotta be really good at bullshitting boards.
[04:21:59] <c0lo> Or you'd have to know enough of the pat-on-the-back billionaire club.
[04:21:59] <FatPhil> Lots of CEOs have been serial failures, it's not that unusual.
[04:22:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> see above re: bullshitting
[04:23:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, newp. billionaires like to make MORE money not less.
[04:23:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> you can tell by how they're billionaires.
[04:23:29] <c0lo> After all, that's why the trickle down bullshit was invented. Old palls deserve a tax cut.
[04:23:59] <FatPhil> such old pals deserve palls
[04:24:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> trickle down: not even half as much as should have been done. flat tax or gtfo
[04:24:41] <c0lo> TMB, I think there's a typo just before your MORE money.
[04:25:32] <c0lo> I s'ppose you wanted to say "to get" rather than "to make".
[04:25:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, pretty sure there isn't. put a shitty ceo in and it causes the folks who are invested in the company to lose money.
[04:26:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, you would think that. those who can't understand how others succeed always mark it up to luck or cheating.
[04:27:24] <progo> *sigh* when you get an assignment at work to screenscrape a web-accessible database from the National Commision on Human Rights in Mexico City, you do it right away, not at midnight a few days later
[04:27:28] <progo> their DNS is down
[04:27:46] <c0lo> "causes .. the company lose money" Case at point, heaps of failed unicorns, Uber&other circling the drain now. Ever heard the first/second round of VC-es complaining about?
[04:28:17] <c0lo> The more the ceo burn money in stellar expansion, the better for VC-es.
[04:28:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> um, wut?
[04:28:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> how is that better for vcs in any way?
[04:29:19] <FatPhil> ask the vcs that
[04:29:28] <FatPhil> clue: vcs can be wrong
[04:29:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> vcs lost money.
[04:29:51] <c0lo> Pyramid games, TMB. The next round of investor pay for VC-es that got earlier and create the hype.
[04:29:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> doesn't bother me. they took the risk and this time they lost.
[04:30:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, so? i have no sympathy for people who gamble poorly.
[04:30:29] <c0lo> If the ubicorn gets to IPO stage, the pension funds take the slack.
[04:30:35] <FatPhil> and rewarding this behaviour is good why?
[04:30:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, nothing is rewarding it. people do it all on their own. and get punished for doing so.
[04:31:09] <FatPhil> golden parachutes reward it
[04:31:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> they do not. they have nothing to do with VC funding
[04:31:42] <FatPhil> they don't need to.
[04:31:48] <c0lo> TMB's neoron ging decoherent again.
[04:32:17] <c0lo> s/neoron ging/neuron going/
[04:32:17] <SedBot> <c0lo> TMB's neuron going decoherent again.
[04:32:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, it often confuses me when people say things that make no logical sense.
[04:34:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> if you wanna just ignore the whole vcs arc of the conversation and skip back though, it's better to give them money to go away than to keep them. and they had the parachute in their contract, so you either pay it or you spend much more in court.
[04:35:06] <c0lo> Not enough cobras in TMB courtyard makes TMB not aware of perverse incentives. In his naive world, every behaviour is rational and logic, the only pervesity allowed is boobs.
[04:35:13] <FatPhil> Buzz reminds me of the Finnish teacher who in reponse to a spoken answer that had tdhe wrong vowel in scolded the pupil "it can't be that - you can't even pronounce that".
[04:35:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> a board's responsibility is not to make the business community better, it is to make money for their company.
[04:36:18] <c0lo> Yes, yes. Their vice is only looking for boobs, they surely don't have any personal motives.
[04:36:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, i knew there was something seriously wrong with your head. boobs are wonderful not perverse.
[04:37:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya know what i love? i love when i lay out logical explanation after logical explanation, nobody manages a refutation or even a good counterargument, and then act like i'm the one whose brain is missing on a cylinder.
[04:38:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> truly, it cracks me up
[04:38:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> and on that note, ima go read a book for about 15 minutes then go to sleep.
[04:39:22] <FatPhil> but you're coming up with stuff that *isn't even wrong* sometimes.
[04:39:56] <FatPhil> there isn't a counter-argument to such statements beyond "what yo've said makes no sense".
[04:40:30] <FatPhil> sometimes worded in ways like "is english even your first language?"
[04:43:50] <c0lo> Yes, TMB, your premise of The Free Market Fairy (TFMF) is more a pure virgin than bloody virgim mary is sound. Hollow sound as it may be, but soubd.
[04:44:18] <c0lo> TFMF is incorruptible and self-healing.
[04:44:40] <FatPhil> However, I'll see the CEO weak sauce and raise you the Super Mario Kart weak sauce - my goodness, whoever was behind that research needs a slap.
[04:46:07] <c0lo> That's not a research, FatPhil. That's poetry in motion. Virtual motion, like the virtual Super Marion and his kart.
[04:46:21] <c0lo> A metaphor of sorts.
[04:46:33] <FatPhil> I use the word in virtual quotes
[04:46:35] <c0lo> A kart analogy if you like it better.
[04:46:54] <FatPhil> it plopped out of a university, that's all I was implying
[04:47:51] <FatPhil> oooh, I wonder if I can run my anagram program on my phone using ssh -X...
[04:48:04] <FatPhil> I feel a desire for an anagram coming on
[04:48:35] <c0lo> There are interpretation of that analogy that make sense: a nation who takes care of the heath of its citizens are better positioned for the future than US.
[04:48:49] <c0lo> But, as any model, it has limit.
[04:51:48] <FatPhil> rubber banding removes actual competition
[04:51:59] <FatPhil> competition is what promotes growth
[04:53:39] <c0lo> That's not absolute, FatPhil. The dose makes the poison.
[04:54:20] <c0lo> Cooperation promotes growth too.
[04:55:14] <FatPhil> when the dose is right
[04:55:48] <c0lo> The pat-on-the-back golden parachute boys club is very cooperative between the members. And it grows. Like a cancer.
[04:56:18] <FatPhil> if improvement is disincentivised, and basically being crap is rewarded, you're aiming for failure.
[04:56:58] <FatPhil> fuxtix, why isn't my DISPLAY set up correctly?
[04:57:16] <c0lo> And wild-west capitalism is all about competition. To the point in which the govt needed to bribe some "industrialists" to build railways.
[04:58:15] <FatPhil> no-one's advocating for the wild west here, c0lo
[04:58:19] <FatPhil> oh, wait...
[04:58:29] <c0lo> FatPhil, re improvement - totally ortogonal on competion/cooperation axis.
[04:58:53] <c0lo> (oh, wait, indeed... :) )
[05:00:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> wow, you guys are really scrolling the crap out of my buffer while i'm sitting in bed reading. even though you've got nobody to argue with. being proven dead wrong because you don't understand what you're even talking about must really chafe the ole brown-eye.
[05:00:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> look, let me make it simple. until you genuinely understand why someone would pay a ceo buttloads of money, you aren't competent to take part in arguments about it.
[05:01:19] * FatPhil ponders the last time he took part in appointing a CEO...
[05:01:31] <FatPhil> or, right, that's happening this week.
[05:01:59] <FatPhil> what makes you think I'm not a business owner?
[05:02:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> nice large cap company that can pay the kind of wages you're talking about?
[05:02:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> there is a difference, you know.
[05:03:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> anyway. book accomplished and i gotta get up in 5h. yall just gonna have to remain ignorant for the evening.
[05:03:33] <FatPhil> not really, things scale quite linearly.
[05:04:43] -!- c0lo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[05:06:32] <khallow> Glancing at the argument stream, I have to say that I'm just not seeing the need to meddle with CEO pay. The people writing the checks either got it figured out or they'll lose their money. It fixes itself.
[05:07:58] <khallow> And I dislike rubber banding. The US didn't become an industrial power by rubber banding its agriculture. Instead those people went to work in other fields.
[05:08:24] <khallow> you have to have an economy that creates jobs first. So many still have trouble with that.
[05:09:28] <khallow> My take is that in the long run even in deepest Africa, most people, as in 95% or more, will do something other than agriculture. It's time to think about how to help make that happen
[05:10:19] -!- c0lo [c0lo!~c0lo@zqs-646-162-243-166.static.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #soylent
[05:13:07] <c0lo> TMB, suuure. I'll let you with your cat and delusio... errr... dreams about TFMF pure virgin and how everything that happens under here rules is fine and proper.
[05:13:22] <c0lo> s/here/her/
[05:13:22] <SedBot> <c0lo> suuure. I'll let you with your cat and delusio... errr... dreams about TFMF pure virgin and how everything that happens under her rules is fine and proper.
[05:15:43] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Microsoft Acquires Nuance--Makers of Dragon Speech Recognition--for $16 Billion - https://sylnt.us - nature'll-anguish-wreck-ignition
[05:21:49] <c0lo> I confess myself... disappointed https://www.health.gov.au
[05:21:51] <systemd> ^ 03Is it true? Can COVID-19 vaccines connect me to the internet?
[05:23:42] <FatPhil> The 'V' in '5G' stands for paravirtualisation.
[05:35:55] -!- khallow has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[06:02:42] <FatPhil> Runaway1956: Oh, I just noticed that the gob.mx link I posted yesterday is dated 11 de abril de 2021
[06:06:16] <FatPhil> https://apnews.com
[06:06:17] <systemd> ^ 03Top Chinese official admits vaccines have low effectiveness
[06:06:59] <chromas> [User was banned for this post]
[06:26:32] <FatPhil> more like [user no longer exists] or [no record of this user found]
[06:43:07] -!- Handy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[06:53:33] <FatPhil> "[elided] has ceased their relationship with you." - but what was it in the past?!?!? I need to know if I'm being snubbed or warmed to?
[06:53:59] <chromas> I have one of those messages too
[06:54:13] <chromas> After getting Friended or whatever a couple days earlier
[07:06:10] <FatPhil> no matching pair here, I don't remember a relationship change for ages
[07:06:58] <chromas> Maybe they changed it twice before you read your messages, so it only generated one
[07:07:04] * chromas testes this idea
[07:08:02] <boru> #submit https://www.theguardian.com
[07:08:03] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[07:08:28] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[07:10:27] <boru> I have to laugh at some of the slant in that article, though. Lauding Obama as trying to negotiate peace, when it was he who signed off on the program to develop the stuxnet virus in conjunction with israel.
[07:10:46] <boru> It just so happens that both attacks happened under democractic party presidents.
[07:10:53] <boru> But they are the peace brokers.
[07:10:59] <boru> What a load of shite.
[07:11:18] <chromas> oh yeah? well I don't see you with a nobel peace prize, mister!
[07:12:32] <boru> Oh, I'm not advocating peace in this situation.
[07:33:16] <FatPhil> Oh Henry Kissinger,
[07:33:26] <FatPhil> How I'm missing yer
[07:46:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Court Rules Grocery Store’s Inaccessible Website Isn’t an ADA Violation - https://sylnt.us
[07:56:30] * c0lo informs chromas that testes are for pearl clutching, not for ideas
[07:57:52] <chromas> I friended then unfriended upstart and haven't seen any messages appear so far, so that must not be what happened to FatPhil
[07:58:03] * chromas puts his testes away
[07:59:43] * c0lo suggests chromas to teste upstart friending and unfriending him
[08:00:22] <chromas> Robots can't be friends
[08:02:02] * c0lo suggests chromas to procreate a friend to teste friending and unfriending
[08:02:47] <chromas> Is that a proposition?
[08:03:50] * c0lo tells chromas it's only a position. chromas is not pro enough for more than that.
[08:04:43] <chromas> Amateur eh. I see you are a man of culture as well
[08:07:32] * c0lo vehemently denies any relation with the culture. Jamais couché avec, but occasionally he may give agriculture a green thumb
[08:08:01] <chromas> croikey
[08:18:02] <FatPhil> I was positive he was a man of culture the moment I shook him by the hand. Gram positive to be precise.
[08:25:21] <chromas> but he's from oz
[08:26:22] <c0lo> yeah, nah, mate. around here we're mostly negative.
[08:48:46] <FatPhil> I guess I'll just have to troy harder with my puns next time
[10:18:08] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - No Password Required: Mobile Carrier Exposes Data for Millions of Accounts - https://sylnt.us - save-money,-get-pwned
[10:21:57] <FatPhil> #weather
[10:22:07] <MrPlow> Apteegi, 10123 Tallinn, Estonia - Today: "Overcast throughout the day." 45/32F, Humidity: 67%, Precip: 8%, Wind ~9mph. Wed: "Mostly cloudy throughout the day." 43/33F, Humidity: 67%, Precip: 18%, Wind ~7mph. Thu: "Clear throughout the day." 45/34F, Humidity: 57%, Precip: 5%, Wind ~10mph.
[10:36:36] -!- aqu4bot has quit [Quit: aqu4bot baking shutting down.]
[10:36:48] -!- aqu4bot [aqu4bot!~aqu4bot@pptdbxlc9.us] has joined #soylent
[10:36:54] -!- Subsentient [Subsentient!~WhiteRat@pptdbxlc9.us] has joined #soylent
[10:53:19] * TheMightyBuzzard yawns
[10:53:19] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into TheMightyBuzzard's gaping mouth
[10:53:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[10:53:27] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5530
[10:59:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, ain't nothing linear about it. follows a pareto distribution and some of the things required to make it into the top 20% are scaled in a quantum manner like the distance of electron rings rather than linearly.
[11:01:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> much in the same way my ass would never be able to dunk on shaq, being able to create or even just successfully run a fortune N company ain't just a matter of luck or trying harder.
[11:01:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> and why the fuck is my email client telling me i have new mail in the tray but not in the client?
[11:04:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> ah, had the inbox collapsed and couldn't see a subfolder that snarfs up mail from localhost
[11:06:02] <FatPhil> Out of modpoints - this AC needs a +1: https://soylentnews.org
[11:06:03] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews Comments | Microsoft Acquires Nuance--Makers of Dragon Speech Recognition--for $16 Billion ( https://soylentnews.org )
[11:06:52] <FatPhil> TheMightyBuzzard: "pareto distribution" doesn't even make sense.
[11:06:59] <FatPhil> yet again, you're not even wrong.
[11:19:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> you not understanding doesn't mean i'm not correct, it just means you don't understand why i'm correct.
[11:21:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> map it against business market caps, works out pretty damned well. match it against wealth distribution, works out again. dat shit ain't a linear progression.
[11:22:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> there's characteristics and knowledge that you and i do not have that mean we will absolutely never run a fortune 500 company.
[11:23:11] <FatPhil> No, its you that doesn't understand.
[11:23:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> add skills and abilities to that as well
[11:23:47] <FatPhil> Why do you think you can counter a claim about a bivariate relationship with an assertion of a univariate distribution. They're completely different things.
[11:24:14] <FatPhil> Me: The building's tall. You: No, it's grey.
[11:24:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, i don't get the joke but you can borrow one of my mod points. what flavor?
[11:24:41] <FatPhil> funny
[11:25:07] <FatPhil> that quote is the fuckup string when MS tried to demo their first speech recognition software
[11:25:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> done and done
[11:25:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahhhh
[11:25:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> missed that one
[11:26:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> here's the thing. you said business skills re: board membership scale linearly. i said they in fact do not.
[11:28:11] <FatPhil> Nope, you're making stuff up again.
[11:28:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> um, do i need to quote you?
[11:28:46] <FatPhil> You introduced company size into the arguement while we were talking about golden parachutes
[11:29:03] <FatPhil> now please do quote me
[11:29:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> and it's relevant
[11:29:19] <FatPhil> and it's linear
[11:29:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> because your qualifications as a board member of low cap companies was brought up.
[11:30:15] <FatPhil> dude, we're the largest estonian owned brewery in the world.
[11:30:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> and how many billions of dollars profit do you make per year?
[11:30:55] <FatPhil> well, we're not competing with Carlsberg just yet
[11:30:57] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[11:31:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> exactly. there's shit going on in the wealthier corps that yours hasn't shown qualification to opine on. yet anyway.
[11:32:03] <FatPhil> But anyway, you can't counter a bivariate relationship with a univariate distribution, they are different things.
[11:32:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, you're just not seeing the connection.
[11:32:43] <FatPhil> i can opine on the size of the golden handshakes as they are almost always on the public record.
[11:32:50] <FatPhil> No.
[11:32:59] <FatPhil> As a mathematician.
[11:33:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> and i can opine on shaq's dunking skillz, doesn't make me qualified.
[11:33:07] <FatPhil> They are totally different thigns.
[11:33:41] <FatPhil> But these aren't opinions, they are facts. Published numbers.
[11:34:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> precisely state your assertion then because i'm apparently thinking you're saying something else.
[11:35:31] <FatPhil> Most golden handshakes are about 9 months of salary and bonus.
[11:36:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> about 50% more than most severance packages, relative to salary, yes
[11:37:46] <FatPhil> that's a relationship, not a distribution.
[11:38:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's also not remotely what i understood you to be saying.
[11:39:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> but the increase in percentage relative to base salary very likely does follow the pareto distribution. and for valid reasons.
[11:39:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> well mostly for valid reasons anyway.
[11:40:21] <FatPhil> you introduced the size of the company as somehow being important as to whether I could conceive of payout magnitudes. I provided the model that I believe to be close enough for government work. Linear - just scale the wage.
[11:41:08] <AzumaHazuki> So, probably-not-APK is shitting up the forum again. Can he be spam-modded despite his posts not being absolutely identical or is that still not politically-correct? 9_9
[11:41:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> newp. doesn't work that way. ability and value does not follow a linear path.
[11:41:41] <FatPhil> Nobody mentioned ability?!?!?!
[11:41:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, depends on if you have me on ignore or not
[11:41:51] <FatPhil> Why do you keep changing the subject?
[11:42:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, ability directly affects someone's value.
[11:42:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> and thus the wage they are worth
[11:43:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> which is why shaq is a millionaire and i'd be lucky to get someone chucking coins my way for playing with a basketball.
[11:44:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, see if you have me on ignore, anything i answer you is going to be a null op.
[11:45:00] <FatPhil> Whether ability directly affects someone's value is *irrelevant* to my point.
[11:45:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> your point is severance packages should be or are linear. they're not.
[11:45:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> and shouldn't be
[11:45:53] <FatPhil> they are in value
[11:46:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> only if you're doing the wrong math
[11:47:06] <FatPhil> The funny thing is that you've already agreed to the statement that makes it the right maths.
[11:47:16] <FatPhil> You can't even agree with yourself.
[11:47:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, i said your statement was correct not that it made sense or was relevant.
[11:47:46] <FatPhil> you said "yes"
[11:47:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> starting at zero percent of base salary for the poor and plotting a line to base salary times 75% for the rich isn't relevant data
[11:47:51] <FatPhil> looked like agreement to me
[11:48:02] <FatPhil> waaaat?!?!?!?
[11:48:17] <FatPhil> who mentioned zero percent of anything
[11:48:23] <FatPhil> you're making stuff up again, arnold.
[11:48:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> poor folks don't get severance packages, as a general rule.
[11:48:43] <FatPhil> we're talking golden parachutes
[11:48:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> or at least poor folks at small cap companies don't.
[11:48:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> which are severance packages by another name
[11:48:58] <FatPhil> you're changing the subject again
[11:48:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> same same
[11:49:25] <FatPhil> subset of all severance packages
[11:49:49] <FatPhil> but that doesn't mean you can include data about any severance package to support a claim about them
[11:50:52] <FatPhil> anyway - urgent email from the (ex-)CEO has appeared in my inbox, and that needs attention.
[11:51:04] * TheMightyBuzzard nods
[11:51:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> we can argue later
[12:02:32] <AzumaHazuki> is it about his severance package? =P
[12:03:08] <FatPhil> I think I'm gonna be all out of argument later ... mail has made me irate ...
[12:05:27] <FatPhil> whilst we're still paying off significant debts, the board are paying themselves peppercorn salaries, and he's staying on in other capacities, so fortunately we don't need to worry about severance.
[12:06:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> you would if people still carried swords
[12:06:08] <FatPhil> Just taken on more debts to get a canning line, which will have its first run of beers through it next week...
[12:06:58] <FatPhil> Fortunately cans opens up more markets, and decreases costs. So hopefully, this one will pay for itself before too long.
[12:07:22] <FatPhil> Unfortunately, I've just seen the label design for the first beer.
[12:07:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> yar. cans break less. somewhat more utility than glass.
[12:07:51] <FatPhil> Gonna need a coffee with 6 shots of cream liqueur in it before I compose my response...
[12:08:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> try a shot of skrewball whiskey instead. surprisingly decent.
[12:08:45] <FatPhil> we have a very efficient re-use scheme for bottles, so on the materials side it's not so clear-cut.
[12:09:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahh, we don't really do that here anymore. bottles just get tossed in the trash same as cans. and they take up more space.
[12:10:30] <Ingar> cans don't go in the trash
[12:10:37] <Ingar> they go in the blue bag for recycling
[12:10:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> no such thing in most of the places i've lived.
[12:11:36] <FatPhil> Not sure our cycle count, but I know that .fi manages >20x reuse, and the basic setup is the same.
[12:11:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> well, i say in the trash... that's the US as a whole. there's a certain subset that prefers bottles for their secondary use as projectiles for the deeply satisfying sound they make when hitting a road sign.
[12:12:05] <Ingar> US, teh trash of the world :D
[12:12:43] <FatPhil> deposit is probably higher proportion of drink cost than .fi, in particular when scaled for cost of living, so we ought to be getting even higher reuse rates.
[12:13:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> Ingar, that may change if paying other people to take our trash becomes undesirable for some reason most folks care about but not for the moment.
[12:13:39] <Ingar> or the US is one giant landfill
[12:13:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> which would be something most folks would care about
[12:14:21] <c0lo> It's happening now https://e360.yale.edu
[12:14:22] <systemd> ^ 03Piling Up: How China’s Ban on Importing Waste Has Stalled Global Recycling
[12:14:40] <Ingar> TheMightyBuzzard: do you have to recycle anything ?
[12:14:46] <Ingar> or is it just all trash
[12:15:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> only water
[12:15:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> possibly air if you want to get picky about it
[12:15:52] <AzumaHazuki> c0lo: that sounds to me like a lot of "recycling" isn't, it's "ship it off to China"
[12:15:55] <Ingar> well, people recycle O2 into CO2
[12:16:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean, you can take your cans over to the scrap yard and they'll pay you for the aluminum but nobody's required to and there's no truck coming around to collect them.
[12:17:03] <Ingar> we got separate trucks for normal trash, glass, paper&cardboard and said blue bag with plastics and metal
[12:17:17] <Ingar> oh and garden/kitchen organic trash
[12:17:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> metal's the only thing recycling's a real option for around most of the US.
[12:18:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> paper and plastic are probably the next common. glass the least.
[12:19:30] <Ingar> glass has been recycled here as long as I can remember
[12:19:43] <Ingar> long before anything else even
[12:20:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> no money in recycling glass here. the pressures to do so just aren't there.
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[12:29:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> huh, fruit of the loom is suing hanes
[12:29:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> should be a brief case
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[12:39:54] <c0lo> More like a suitcase, TMB
[12:47:36] <Ingar> lol, egypt has impounded the Ever Given
[12:47:44] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Anti-Encryption EU Consultation Open Until April 15th - https://sylnt.us - is-the-signup-page-encrypted?
[12:48:57] <Bytram> FatPhil: +1 Funny given. Was the first thing I thought of when I posted the story, but could not remember the exact quote.
[12:52:03] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki: Can you please post link(s)?
[13:01:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, i assume she's talking about runaway1488. check the spam mods page.
[13:01:47] <Bytram> this one? https://soylentnews.org
[13:01:48] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews Comments | I am in mensa. ( https://soylentnews.org )
[13:02:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> at least that one. dunno beyond that
[13:03:07] <AzumaHazuki> innnnteresting
[13:03:21] <AzumaHazuki> so now that "apk" logged himself in as a different name, what can we do with this?
[13:04:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> well i'm going to go smoke a cigarette and let spam mods do their job.
[13:16:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> ed fail: https://soylentnews.org
[13:17:01] <systemd> ^ 03The Sacred “Back” Button - SoylentNews
[13:17:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> should clearly have been from the baby-got-back dept
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[14:32:36] <c0lo> =submit apple-in-cider-says https://appleinsider.com
[14:32:39] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03AppleInsider" (13p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:35:38] <c0lo> =submit misfortune says https://fortune.com
[14:35:40] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03COVID Pandemic is Growing "Exponentially," Says WHO" (2p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:36:35] <c0lo> =submit https://reneweconomy.com.au
[14:36:38] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Australia’s Main Grid Hits Record Renewables High of 56 Per Cent on Sunday" (30p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:37:04] <c0lo> twas windy as hell
[14:38:59] <c0lo> =submit arse technica says https://arstechnica.com
[14:39:02] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Charter Must Pay $19 Million for Tricking Customers Into Switching ISPs" (32p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:40:28] <c0lo> =submit https://www.straitstimes.com
[14:40:30] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Singapore Now Home to One of the World's Largest Floating Solar Farms" (21p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[15:17:10] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - FCC Asks Public to Help Test Broadband Speeds Across the US - https://sylnt.us - do-your-part
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[16:47:11] <Runaway1956> lol - curfew in Brooklyn Center is meaningless nonsense
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[17:46:58] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - AMD Announces Ryzen 5000G "Cezanne" Desktop APUs - https://sylnt.us
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[19:24:16] <FatPhil> =yt bSPzc5lNp08
[19:24:17] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Money As Debt II (01:16:46; 9,421 views; 👍129 👎5)
[19:30:44] <bacterium> coffee++
[19:30:44] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5531
[19:30:46] <bacterium> satan++
[19:30:46] <Bender> karma - satan: 19
[19:55:05] <FatPhil> Nation Braces For Most Peaceful Protests Yet = Reformers can't obey - factions topple statues. (anagram)
[19:55:12] <FatPhil> https://babylonbee.com
[19:55:13] <systemd> ^ 03Nation Braces For Most Peaceful Protests Yet
[20:16:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Astrobotic Will Send a Lander to the Lunar South Pole Using Falcon Heavy - https://sylnt.us - how-many-boosters-will-land?
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[22:28:50] <Runaway1956> https://asia.nikkei.com
[22:28:51] <systemd> ^ 03Nikkei Asia
[22:29:01] <Runaway1956> Things have only got worse
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[22:45:53] <chromas> Yeah. It's horrible how many sites are just returning their names in the titles
[22:53:41] <Runaway1956> https://nypost.com
[22:53:42] <systemd> ^ 03COVID-19 school closures plunge to zero after NYC policy change
[22:56:29] <Runaway1956> =submit https://mashable.com
[22:56:31] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03How to Shut Down Spot the Robot 'Dog,' Should You Ever Need to" (0p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[23:12:59] <Runaway1956> =submit https://www.theverge.com
[23:13:01] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Verge" (1p) -> https://soylentnews.org
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[23:35:34] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - J&J COVID Vaccine Use Paused in US Due to One-in-a-Million Complication - https://sylnt.us