#soylent | Logs for 2021-03-26
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[00:49:31] <Runaway1956> Found an image of a trackhoe working to free the Ever Given - the images I've seen before weren't nearly as good
[00:49:37] <Runaway1956> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk
[00:49:48] <Runaway1956> https://www.bbc.com
[00:49:49] <systemd> ^ 03Suez Canal: How are they trying to free the Ever Given?
[01:11:10] <Bytram> Runaway1956++ thanks for that! Zooming in on this pic, I think I can see the same digger *just* behind the bow (left)
[01:11:10] <Bender> karma - runaway1956: 33
[01:16:23] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Radio Shack Once Again Crawls Out of the Grave - https://sylnt.us - someone-put-it-out-of-its-misery-for-good
[01:33:20] -!- AzumaHazuki has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[01:52:29] <Bytram> Runaway1956: Here's another article: https://www.cnn.com
[01:52:32] <systemd> ^ 03Katherine Diaz: Surfer killed by lightning while training - CNN Video
[01:52:47] <Bytram> sorry, wrong link!
[01:53:14] <Bytram> https://www.cnn.com
[01:53:16] <systemd> ^ 03Dislodging the huge ship blocking the Suez Canal could take 'days to weeks,' as the traffic jam builds
[02:08:44] <Bytram> =g CLIPS
[02:08:45] <systemd> https://www.apple.com - Clips - Apple
[02:08:53] <Bytram> =g CLIPS language
[02:08:54] <systemd> https://en.wikipedia.org - CLIPS - Wikipedia
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[02:57:38] <chromas> Pop quiz, hotshot: someone can't remember where "don't call me Shirley" comes from and someone else suggests the hangover. What do you do? What do you do?
[03:06:23] <Bytram> chromas: Tell them to watch this? https://en.wikipedia.org
[03:06:24] <systemd> ^ 03Snakes on a Plane - Wikipedia
[03:08:53] <chromas> Le hue
[03:33:21] <Bytram> chromas: Pepe le hue?
[03:40:23] <Runaway1956> Bytram - I've been suspicious of talk of pumping off fuel and ballast, and this it the reason:
[03:40:29] <Runaway1956> "Reducing the loads in such cases must be done from the top, and Egypt does not have a floating crane capable of reaching the height of the containers in the ship," the source said.
[03:40:44] <Bytram> saw that but
[03:40:46] <Runaway1956> Always, you want to work from the top down when removing weight.
[03:40:52] <Bytram> they conflated two things
[03:41:21] <Bytram> fuel/ballast vs containters
[03:41:56] <Bytram> need honking big crane to offload containers
[03:42:15] <Bytram> agree w/ top-down
[03:42:19] <Runaway1956> Yep, and I don't see any cranes aboard the ship
[03:42:41] <Bytram> otherwise, get top-heavy and fall over
[03:42:57] <Bytram> you thought you had a problem before?
[03:43:03] <Runaway1956> I see one white stanchion that could maybe be part of a crane, but I don't see the rest of a crane
[03:43:08] <Bytram> How look what you've done!
[03:43:32] <Bytram> I'm in the middle of pushing out a story atm
[03:43:36] <Bytram> give me a few minutes
[03:43:42] <Runaway1956> Every single person in the area with any responsibility is afraid to do ANYTHING, lol
[03:43:48] <Runaway1956> LOL
[03:43:52] <Runaway1956> see ya soon
[03:48:09] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Firefox 87 Adds Stronger User Privacy Protections - https://sylnt.us
[03:52:34] <bacterium> it's nice to see the soylentils being so supportive of rms, even though in their usual potty-mouth way :D
[04:06:03] <Bytram> Runaway1956: just came upon this (have not yet read) https://www.cnn.com
[04:06:06] <systemd> ^ 03Suez Canal authorities need to remove 20,000 cubic meters of sand to free the Ever Given
[04:08:36] <chromas> Just saw a wad of meteors
[04:08:57] <chromas> I thought it was an airplane or copter 'cause there were occasional colored flashes
[04:09:09] <chromas> but the lights kep spreading out and had trails
[04:09:20] <chromas> probably aliens
[04:09:39] <Bytram> sounds awesome!
[04:10:41] <chromas> some people on the internets are saying it's starlink deployments
[04:10:55] <chromas> I haven't seen one from the ground but I dunno
[04:12:22] <bacterium> may be it's a nasa public outreach program, generating interest in space research among the members of general public
[04:12:28] <Bytram> ~20 years ago there was a prediction that an annual meteor shower might turn out to be a meteor storm. Clear cold night. (Glad I brought hot coffee!) Did not reach *storm& proportions, but certainly many more than I'd ever seen in a meteor shower before.
[04:12:36] <Bytram> even saw some bolides!
[04:13:01] <bacterium> a ufo is just a metaphor for the unknown physics
[04:13:59] <Bytram> several hundred people had he same great idea and had gathered in some big open fields at a nearby state park. Was much like a [chily] 4th of july atmosphere to it. Ooooooo! Aaaaaaaaa!
[04:14:11] <chromas> would starlinks even be visible from the ground? I thought they were painting them african american now
[04:14:14] <bacterium> i am jellous, Bytram, i never seen a real good meteor storm, and the only solar eclipse i seen was partial
[04:14:54] <bacterium> storm? shower?
[04:15:10] <Bytram> yeah, don't get me wrong. calling it a "storm" would be overselling it.
[04:15:12] * bacterium metabolizes certain molecules
[04:16:56] <Bytram> but, compared to normal showers of 30-120 per hour, this was prolly closer to 5 per minute (with high standard deviation)
[04:17:28] <Bytram> chromas: could well have been starlink... were the all-in-a-row?
[04:17:34] <Bytram> chromas: could well have been starlink... were they all-in-a-row?
[04:17:46] <chromas> Yeah, spreading out for a bit, then faded
[04:18:26] <chromas> Saw the occasional green blink. Not sure about red. That's why we thought aircraft at first
[04:19:00] <Bytram> nod nod
[04:19:06] <chromas> probably aliens though. they only faded out once I grabbed my phone to fire a shot
[04:19:43] <chromas> oh wait, they were heading north
[04:25:06] <chromas> Someone took this photo https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net
[04:53:11] <Bytram> chromas: if it were skylink, that would have been reflection of the dun from solar panels. so around sunrise/sunset? closer to horizon than straight overhead?
[04:53:30] <Bytram> s/ d/ s/
[04:53:30] <SedBot> <Bytram> chromas: if it were skylink, that would have been reflection of the sun from solar panels. so around sunrise/sunset? closer to horizon than straight overhead?
[04:55:55] <Bytram> would help to know the speed and duration of their passing.
[04:55:58] <chromas> https://www.facebook.com
[04:55:59] <systemd> ^ 03Amber Sherman
[04:56:06] <chromas> can't get a working link to the video
[04:56:17] <chromas> the trails show up a lot more than they did in real life though
[04:57:08] <chromas> also they're going the opposite direction in that video so those people must be north of me since they're looking south
[04:57:21] <Bytram> meteors would be at most a couple/three seconds; starlink would be more like 10 seconds (guessing)
[04:57:54] <chromas> the video's 26 seconds long and starts after the light show and ends before
[04:58:32] <Bytram> that is not very helpful.
[04:59:25] <Bytram> it's tomorrow here, so I think I'm gonna make my way to bed
[05:00:53] <Fnord666> Definitely aliens
[05:01:09] <chromas> if I could get this stupid extension to get the video from fartbook I could send you a non-fb link
[05:02:28] <chromas> ohhhhh! now I know why I needed pandoc. it's for youtube-dlc
[05:02:53] <chromas> and then pandoc pulls in 99 haskell packages
[05:03:16] <Bytram> Snnnzzzzt. gtg. Have a great night everybody!
[05:03:49] * Bytram hopes to check backscroll in the morning
[05:05:25] <bacterium> looks like something breaking apart
[05:09:24] <chromas> like splitting from you to bacteria?
[05:27:25] <bacterium> mmm i dunno, perhaps if it was aliens, then may be
[05:46:02] <chromas> speaking of aliens, https://static01.nyt.com
[05:46:33] <chromas> from https://www.nytimes.com
[05:46:34] <systemd> ^ 03How the World’s Oldest Wooden Sculpture Is Reshaping Prehistory
[05:47:19] <chromas> lulz, "Decolonizing the Hunt for Dinosaurs and Other Fossils"
[05:58:34] <chromas> a, rocket go boom
[05:58:42] <chromas> https://www.king5.com
[05:58:43] <systemd> ^ 03Streak of lights over Pacific Northwest was Falcon 9 rocket debris
[06:09:53] <c0lo> =submit usians-are-nuts https://www.reuters.com
[06:09:56] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Georgia Bans Giving Water to Voters in Line Under Sweeping Restrictions" (17p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[06:19:09] <c0lo> hhhmmm... does it worth for a one night stand before her deceased father? https://pbs.twimg.com
[06:25:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - CERN Experiment Hints at New Force of Nature - https://sylnt.us
[06:32:27] <chromas> totally doesn't look shooped
[06:35:43] <chromas> https://www.youtube.com
[06:35:44] <systemd> ^ 03Meteors!!! Salem Oregon 2021 March 25
[08:27:03] <FatPhil> it's the end times
[08:37:52] <chromas> I put an amd graphics card in with my nvidia one. now I've got the worst of both worlds
[08:38:34] <chromas> performance of both is kinda shitty, and the amd one has triangular screen tearing like the laptop with intel graphics
[08:46:47] <chromas> https://www.youtube.com
[08:46:48] <systemd> ^ 03Unicomp Mini-M (IBM SSK repro) review (buckling springs)
[08:53:04] <FatPhil> Use one for crypto mining
[08:53:28] <chromas> Too ancient
[08:55:11] <chromas> Plus the fan's loud even at idle. Doesn't fit in with the panel-less 'case' rig sitting two feet (that's .6 meaturs for you unfreedomed types) away
[08:57:07] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Previously Thought to be Science Fiction, a Planet in a Triple-Star System has been Discovered - https://sylnt.us
[09:25:46] <FatPhil> "US Stealth Jet Accidentally Shot Itself With Armor Piercing Round"
[09:57:25] <c0lo> Oh, I thought that was a quip for chromas' graphics card fan. Surprise, it's a news item.
[10:07:08] <FatPhil> it's F-35 news, always fun!
[10:19:37] <chromas> "The real enemy was inside me all along."
[10:24:23] <chromas> or "oh my god I shot my eye out!"
[10:31:42] <chromas> I hadn't read anything recently about the F-35. It's got touch screens and voice control, eh. I hope it's got Google integration
[10:50:40] <c0lo> In this case, it looks like F35 was just an unfortunate victim of a defective projectile.
[10:50:55] <c0lo> https://www.popularmechanics.com
[10:50:56] <systemd> ^ 03F-35 Accidentally Shoots Itself
[10:51:07] <c0lo> A 25-millimeter PGU-32/U Semi-Armor Piercing High Explosive Incendiary-Tracer (SAPHEI-T) cannon round exploded shortly after leaving the F-35B’s GAU-22 four-barrel, 25-millimeter Gatling gun.
[10:51:55] <inz> Do fighter jets have feet?
[10:52:24] <c0lo> It may be the barrel was metric and the projectile was inchic.
[10:53:10] <c0lo> Or metral vs imperial.
[10:54:01] <inz> Or metreic and imperic
[10:54:32] <c0lo> Or something, yes.
[10:55:11] <inz> Yeah, a 1 inch object in a 25 mill tube would sound like a problem
[11:08:09] <c0lo> A wisdom I can get behind https://pbs.twimg.com
[11:08:30] <c0lo> (or could... if my memory still serves)
[11:10:04] <FatPhil> https://onemileatatime.com
[11:10:05] <systemd> ^ 03Pilot Caught On Hot Mic, Goes On Shocking Rant
[11:12:33] <FatPhil> do what makes your hole sloppy = perpetually ask how - oh, sodomy
[11:16:34] <c0lo> The original seems to be this https://www.reddit.com
[11:16:40] <systemd> ^ 03r/funny - My gf put the quote on the left, it took her 2 weeks to realize I changed it.
[11:24:09] <FatPhil> 2+2 letters differ, naughty boy, not approved
[11:25:34] <FatPhil> do what makes your soul happy = low-key sodomy apparatus, huh?
[11:26:13] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Optical Fiber Could Boost Power of Superconducting Quantum Computers - https://sylnt.us - to-help-keep-your-data-paths-clear-use-plenty-of-optical-fibre
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[11:45:10] <FatPhil> More sensibly: Do what makes your soul happy = Shy? Do what makes you popular!
[11:45:25] <FatPhil> too many repeated words to actually be a good anagram though.
[12:39:45] <c0lo> FatPhil, to chase you off from stupid anagrams based on stupid memes...
[12:40:23] <c0lo> ... all started from "a feet" https://twitter.com
[12:43:32] <FatPhil> can't read twitter
[12:43:54] <FatPhil> real feet, or virtual NFT feet?
[12:43:59] <FatPhil> =submit https://www.inputmag.com
[12:44:01] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03$10K for a Virtual Shoe? NFTs are Here to Create More Sneakers You Can't Get" (9p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[12:44:25] <AzumaHazuki> this NFT thing icks me out in ways i can't articulate
[12:44:30] <c0lo> dafook. You still dint solve yor twitter impairment?
[12:45:14] <FatPhil> i didn't install any new software, nor will I. if twitter doesn't work in any of my browsers, then twitter's broken, fuck it.
[12:45:34] <c0lo> "Kayleigh McEnany @kayleighmcenany · 19h President Biden begins his first press conference by touting the rate of vaccines being administered, a feet solely made possible by President Trump's Operation Warp Speed."
[12:45:52] <FatPhil> NFT stands for "nearly fucking tulips", right?
[12:50:05] <FatPhil> Operation Warp Speed was only necessary because there were no herbal remedies available.
[12:50:17] <FatPhil> Operation Warp Speed = No appropriate weeds
[12:50:46] <c0lo> May have worked better with clorox.
[12:50:47] <FatPhil> Hahah - you failed to stop me anagramming things!
[12:51:31] <c0lo> t's not *my* loss, FatPhil.
[12:51:43] <FatPhil> = President Wear-a-poop
[12:52:19] <AzumaHazuki> ever notice how the "right's" arguments all boil down to "fuck you you're not better than me!"?
[12:52:33] <AzumaHazuki> except for the ones that boil down to "fuck you we're better than you" of course
[12:53:46] <FatPhil> most of them essentially boil down to just "fuck you!"
[12:55:48] <AzumaHazuki> well, yes, but they like to pretend they have an excuse. ...though really, I see a *lot* of the first type. They don't seem to get what an awful argument it is, nor how nihilistic
[12:56:18] <AzumaHazuki> "there's no hope for anyone, you're not better than me so stop pretending you are!" Crab-bucket mentality. And usually not true, either, which is what really bites them
[12:57:23] <FatPhil> there definitely is crabism, which is pretty scary. you see that on the far left too, just different harms handed out for different reasons.
[12:58:34] <AzumaHazuki> you know, that's true, but not to the same degree
[12:59:26] <AzumaHazuki> all the angst over "cancel culture" is exactly the same as McConnell shittin' his wrinkled old turtle-britches over losing the filibuster: essentially, entitled bullying sociopaths who get unpleasantly surprised when their prey starts using their own tactics against them
[12:59:47] <AzumaHazuki> it's nothing more than "fuck you, stop defending yourself and stay still so i can keep hitting you!" Fuck that sideways with a sandblaster, IMO.
[13:00:16] <AzumaHazuki> the hypocrisy is almost tangible
[13:07:43] <c0lo> =submit woopsie https://edition.cnn.com
[13:07:47] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Why are More Young People Getting Sick With Covid-19 in Brazil?" (6p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[13:09:26] <AzumaHazuki> oh fucking hell...! if there's a variant that attacks the young, maybe even preferentially so, the entire planet is in shit
[13:10:09] <c0lo> =submit oh-those-cannabians https://www.thestar.com
[13:10:11] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Thestar.com" (27p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[13:12:55] <c0lo> Fucking shit mate, a bit more and those Americans will remember Turing only because he was chemically castrated.
[13:13:13] <c0lo> =submit https://apnews.com
[13:13:15] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03WWII Codebreaker Turing Honored on UK's New 50-pound Note" (18p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[13:13:35] <FatPhil> preferentially infecting the old has never been an evolutionary advantage - eventually a mutation that reduces that weakness will emerge.
[13:14:45] <AzumaHazuki> indeed...
[13:15:12] <c0lo> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
[13:15:16] <systemd> ^ 03Age-Specific Mortality During the 1918 Influenza Pandemic: Unravelling the Mystery of High Young Adult Mortality
[13:15:23] <AzumaHazuki> i really hope the current vaccines work against this. i'll be 33 this August, i.e., right in this thing's kill zone
[13:16:46] <c0lo> Don't worry, Zumi, Jesus died at that age and yet... (grin)
[13:19:36] <c0lo> "A Florida teacher has been fired for using medical marijuana... Medical marijuana is legal in Florida... School Board General Counsel Paul Gibbs says the school district must be a drug-free workplace to receive certain federal grants."
[13:19:54] <FatPhil> yeah, spanish flu uses wicked ju-jitsu skillz
[13:20:17] <c0lo> https://apnews.com
[13:20:17] <systemd> ^ 03Texas death toll from February storm, outages surpasses 100
[13:20:35] <FatPhil> are there aspirins in the school's first aid cabinet?
[13:21:17] <AzumaHazuki> there shouldn't be. pediatric patients risk Reye's syndrome if they take aspirin
[13:21:45] <AzumaHazuki> paracetamol is safest for children, followed by ibuprofen in low doses (we're finding out NSAIDs in general have some nasty effects...)
[13:23:46] <c0lo> You were saying Zumi something about "Fuck you"? Looks like the police find more of those https://apnews.com
[13:23:46] <systemd> ^ 03Armed man arrested at University of Kentucky hospital
[13:24:59] <AzumaHazuki> i don't quite get the connection
[13:26:03] <Bytram> I question the veracity of that report:
[13:26:30] <Bytram> 1.) "University of Kentucky Police Chief Joe Monroe said the man, Bryan Carroll of Versailles, was arrested without incident as soon as he exited the hospital."
[13:26:35] <Bytram> 2.) "Carroll, 44, was charged with possession of a handgun by a convicted felon, use of a weapon of mass destruction, resisting arrest and several other charges, according to media reports. "
[13:27:14] <Bytram> how does "without incident" == "resisting arrest"?
[13:28:35] <Bytram> separately, I've got a busy day ahead and several pending changes to deal with on phone & PS -- rebooting both, soon.
[13:29:29] <Bytram> rebooting phone (MiFi) first
[13:29:30] <c0lo> NVM, Zumi, maybe I'm seeing a pattern of armed lunatics grabbing police attention more frequently later
[13:29:47] <Bytram> laters!
[13:30:07] <c0lo> =submit https://www.engadget.com
[13:30:09] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Samsung's 512GB DDR5 Module is a Showcase for the Future of RAM" (4p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[13:31:31] <AzumaHazuki> a good deal of the police are the same type of armed lunatic
[13:31:43] <AzumaHazuki> growing up in NYC you learn reeeeeal fast the cops aren't your friend
[13:33:14] <c0lo> =submit https://www.cnet.com
[13:33:16] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Over 80% of Workers Don't Want to Go Back to the Office Full Time, Survey Finds" (7p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[13:35:01] <c0lo> AzumaHazuki, well sue them NYPD https://edition.cnn.com
[13:35:03] <systemd> ^ 03NYPD officers are no longer protected from civil lawsuits after city council passes police reform legislation
[13:35:28] <AzumaHazuki> good. they never should have been. the cops are more like a standing army than anything
[13:36:44] <AzumaHazuki> and that means 1) they think of themselves as soldiers, while "we" are civilians, and 2) it follows from 1) that there's a permanent rupture. no community solidarity or personal connection
[13:42:19] <Bytram> "us" vs "them"
[13:43:26] <Bytram> Phone reboot successful! Now it's time to reboot this laptop.
[13:43:43] <c0lo> Kaboom!
[13:43:44] <Bytram> Wish me [good!] luck!
[13:43:57] <FatPhil> =yt nDbeqj-1XOo
[13:43:58] <c0lo> break a leg
[13:43:58] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Pink Floyd - Us and Them (07:52; 30,682,327 views; 👍137,292 👎4,956)
[13:47:31] <c0lo> =yt nijTc5nOS2M
[13:47:32] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Pink Floyd - Pigs on the Wing Part 1 - WITH LYRICS! (01:40; 187,431 views; 👍595 👎7)
[14:18:03] <FatPhil> if you want shelter, I might give you rape and murder...
[14:18:43] <FatPhil> For a while, Animals was my favourite PF album.
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[14:46:35] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Reproduction Without Pregnancy: Would It Really Emancipate Women? - https://sylnt.us - better-ask-Betteridge
[14:57:45] <c0lo> The part with rape I get (I've found somewhere safe to bury my bone). The murder escapes me, unless you tried some resemblance of a rime.
[15:02:08] <Ingar> time to feed the lizard
[15:16:32] <halibut> chromas: Looks like a pretty typical orbital reentry and breakup. See, for example: https://www.youtube.com Must have been neat to see with your own eyes.
[15:16:34] <systemd> ^ 03ATV-1 reentry
[15:18:17] <FatPhil> =g lyrics shelter "rape and murder"
[15:18:18] <systemd> https://en.wikipedia.org - Gimme Shelter - Wikipedia
[15:23:58] <halibut> The Facebook video posted earlier appears to be split into chunks, with separate video and audio. This appears to be one of the lower-res video-only chunks:
[15:24:06] <halibut> https://video-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net
[15:24:34] <halibut> Did not look too deeply into it, though. Figured that was good enough to see what was going on.
[15:30:36] <c0lo> =yt Weather Update Zawinul
[15:30:37] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Joe Zawinul and Weather Update (1986) (59:21; 6,687 views; 👍98 👎2)
[16:01:29] <FatPhil> https://www.youtube.com
[16:01:30] <systemd> ^ 03Tesla Full Self Driving - Elon Musk Bullshit Exposed
[16:46:33] <Runaway1956> #tell Bytram he might like this video https://www.youtube.com
[16:46:34] <MrPlow> Okay, I'll tell them next time I see them.
[16:59:19] <FatPhil> =yt R7NglgCSgDs
[16:59:20] <systemd> https://youtube.com - World's Largest Container Ship, Evergreen 20,000+ TEU Class "Ever Given" Into Kaohsiung Harbor (11:40; 153,469 views; 👍768 👎78)
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[17:18:33] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Fight Against Fake-Paper Factories that Churn Out Sham Science - https://sylnt.us - Look!-You-can-tell-from-the-cross-section!-Henry-Jones,-archeologist.
[18:41:38] <Bytram> =yt https://www.youtube.com
[18:41:39] <systemd> https://youtube.com - World's Largest Container Ship, Evergreen 20,000+ TEU Class "Ever Given" Into Kaohsiung Harbor (11:40; 154,111 views; 👍776 👎78)
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[19:09:30] * Bytram waves hello to Xyem
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[19:12:37] <Bytram> =w ever given
[19:12:39] <systemd> Ever Given is a Golden-class container ship, among the largest container ships in the world. She is owned by Shoei Kisen Kaisha (a shipowning and leasing - https://en.wikipedia.org
[19:15:08] <FatPhil> the photos of the excavator next to it, trying to dig it out was hilarious.
[19:18:13] <Bytram> #weather suez, egypt
[19:18:14] <MrPlow> 1 Imam Alley, Third, Suez, 43515, Egypt - Today: "Partly cloudy throughout the day." 69/50F, Humidity: 57%, Precip: 1%, Wind ~10mph. Sat: "Clear throughout the day." 70/53F, Humidity: 49%, Precip: 1%, Wind ~11mph. Sun: "Clear throughout the day." 71/52F, Humidity: 53%, Precip: 0%, Wind ~11mph.
[19:44:50] <Runaway1956> The story is of passing interest, but check out this title
[19:44:54] <Runaway1956> https://gizmodo.com
[19:44:55] <systemd> ^ 03Dogs and Dingoes Are Not Boning
[19:45:33] <FatPhil> !boner Runaway1956
[19:48:49] * Runaway1956 watches FatPhil being boned by a dingoe
[19:57:46] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - AstraZeneca Lowers Efficacy Claim for COVID-19 Vaccine, a Bit, After Board's Rebuke - https://sylnt.us
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[21:24:20] SoyGuest14723 is now known as NCommander
[21:24:29] -!- NCommander has quit [Changing host]
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[21:24:29] -!- mode/#soylent [+v NCommander] by Aphrodite
[21:24:44] <Bytram> NCommander: !!
[21:24:49] <Bytram> Howdy!!!!!
[21:24:54] <NCommander> o/
[21:25:06] <Bytram> how are you?
[21:25:17] <NCommander> Surviving
[21:25:34] <NCommander> I made a video on YT denouncing the FSF and rms's return
[21:25:55] <NCommander> The amount of trash I had to delete out of the comment section is impressive.
[21:26:00] <Bytram> sems a great number of people share that viewpoint
[21:26:18] <NCommander> I saw the SN article comments
[21:26:52] <NCommander> I'm more than a little disappointed how many people stand up for his attitude towards women.
[21:27:20] * Bytram has been coming out of a darkish spell for a while. Rarely get to read many comments after sifting thru and post4-stories a day
[21:28:26] <Bytram> at some level of abstraction there are some small defensible points. perhaps. in the big picture though? I give it a great big nope!
[21:28:53] <bacterium> NCommander, do you think a man who goes to a traditional islamic mosque every week is an acceptable leader for an organization such as FSF?
[21:29:44] <NCommander> Does that man actively alienate and create an era of toxicity around him wherever he goes?
[21:31:10] <bacterium> in my view that's besides the point. i hope we can agree that by participating in a traditional public islamic service this man endorses the faith, as taught, and the organization
[21:31:34] <bacterium> suppose he is nice to women as a person, not offensive in interpersonal conduct
[21:33:36] <Bytram> attendance does not necessarily imply support. I could well imagine checking something something out just to find out how in the world they could believe one thing or another. I.e. curiosity.
[21:36:32] <Bytram> That said, at some point I would be strongly tempted to call continued attendance as indicative of agreement with at least some of the group's beliefs.
[21:36:33] <bacterium> i am imagining a run-of-the-mill example of someone who grew up in the tradition
[21:36:40] <NCommander> you know, there's no winning this conversation. All you want is to justify your views, and the only winning move is not to play.
[21:36:56] <NCommander> But you did help me make up my mind about something I've been debating for awhile.
[21:36:58] <NCommander> So thanks.
[21:37:02] -!- NCommander [NCommander!~mcasadeva@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mcasadevall] has parted #soylent
[21:37:05] <bacterium> i only asked a question, i am not in a mood to debate
[21:37:39] <bacterium> i am disappointed you are not willing to share your views on this topic, but i won't press
[21:37:55] * Teckla thinks ALL religious people are nutters. ;)
[21:38:32] <bacterium> &_&
[21:39:32] <Teckla> That being said, being religious doesn't disqualify someone from this or that.
[21:40:06] <bacterium> i am sorry people omg i made ncommander ragequit or something, i was actually glad to see him :)
[21:40:08] <Bytram> #tell NCommander I appreciate your stopping in today. Have always admired your candor and still find myself guided by your able examples -- especially early in the site's formation. Touch act to follow, indeed!
[21:40:09] <MrPlow> Okay, I'll tell them next time I see them.
[21:40:59] * Teckla happily does not give a crap about the FSF.
[21:41:02] <bacterium> #tell NCommander sorry for jumping on you like a common cold from a dark alley, thanks a bunch for the soylent :D
[21:41:02] <MrPlow> Okay, I'll tell them next time I see them.
[21:48:27] -!- Ethanol-fueled [Ethanol-fueled!~59bbad82@89.187.gil.xsv] has joined #soylent
[21:48:33] <Ethanol-fueled> Wuttup niggas.
[21:49:58] <Ethanol-fueled> Jews are helping Chinks destroy America.
[21:50:40] <Ethanol-fueled> Since Jewish fifth-columnists have weakened America, the Chinks will take Taiwan.
[21:51:12] <Ethanol-fueled> Ever wonder why everybody behind Woke bullshit, who isn't a Golem Black, is either Jewish or Chinese?
[21:51:50] <Ethanol-fueled> Yep, you guessed it. It's because Jews and Chinks hate America.
[21:52:17] <Ethanol-fueled> And using the tactics of their past "cultural revolutions," they will try to take America down.
[21:52:38] <Ethanol-fueled> Biden and all his Jewish buddies are on their side.
[21:53:09] <chromas> We're supposed to be shitting on stallman today
[21:53:35] <Ethanol-fueled> I thought we all shat on Stallman a couple days ago?
[21:54:00] <Ethanol-fueled> That Stallman-shitting was pretty good though -- it was JEW ON JEW violence.
[21:54:08] <chromas> yeah but now NCommander's butthurt about it
[21:54:24] <Ethanol-fueled> I thought some Chabadnik motherfuckers were gonna start swinging dead chickens at Stallman or some shit.
[21:54:32] <Ethanol-fueled> NCommander, butthurt?
[21:54:36] <bacterium> there's a particularly salient opinion on fsf member forum: they are gonna shit on him until he leaves gnu
[21:54:37] <Bytram> ehyou been warned -- bye!
[21:54:41] <Ethanol-fueled> FUCK YOUY
[21:54:41] <Bytram> .kick Ethanol-fueled
[21:54:41] -!- Ethanol-fueled was kicked from #soylent by Aphrodite!Aphrodite@dodekatheon.olympus.gr [(Bytram (martyb)) No reason given]
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[21:55:04] -!- mode/#soylent [+v NCommander] by Aphrodite
[22:12:23] <pinchy> go go gadget chicken swingers
[22:27:30] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Amazon Workers Describe Struggle for Historic Union Vote in Alabama - https://sylnt.us
[22:34:08] -!- Ethanol-fueled [Ethanol-fueled!~59bbad82@89.187.gil.xsv] has joined #soylent
[22:34:28] <Ethanol-fueled> I apologize. I said "FUCK YOUY". I meant to say, FUCK YOU!
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[22:34:49] <c0lo> NCommander, I have two critiques in re how the RMS issue is handled:
[22:35:35] <c0lo> 1. it doesn't seemthat anyone has asked RMS to change his behavior
[22:36:14] * NCommander regrets he can't kickban for awhile Ethanol-fuled since he already left
[22:36:44] <c0lo> 2. "Get RMS down" is the "down" part. What/who one put in place?
[22:37:25] <NCommander> down part?
[22:37:53] <c0lo> In re 1, Linus changed his personal abrasive part, remained an effective lead for Linux
[22:39:18] <NCommander> RMS has been asked multiple times to not be a giant leech. Him being dismissed from MIT or FSF was the only thing that lead to a one sentence admission that "sex with a minor" is harmful
[22:39:49] <c0lo> In re 2, RMS was effective in his obstinate way of defining OSS. I don't see any person as obstinate as him to push fagaist compromises in re OSS.
[22:39:50] <NCommander> I personally told him to listen to the FSF Savannah administratorts and to please let us handle our own administration, and not just tell us to fuck off.
[22:41:26] <NCommander> c0lo, you can be a hardliner without being an asshole, or a misygist, or alienating people who support your mission. I still feel free software is important, but I've personally felt that the FSF has been a net negative for 15 or so years.
[22:41:50] <NCommander> Most people who've interacted with rms tend to share my opinions. the FSF staff *unionized* because dealing with rms and the board was so toxic that it was the only way to bareable
[22:41:56] <Bytram> NCommander++
[22:41:56] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 122
[22:42:37] <Bytram> c0lo: The ends justify the means? I do not agree, if that is what you are suggesting
[22:42:39] <c0lo> NCommander, that's the justification for getting him out of the picture. My point 2 asks who is the hardliner to replace him?
[22:42:42] <NCommander> Furthermore, his job for the FSF is *literially* to get people to be interested in free software, and not scream at people that they'r eliving in sin for wearing noise cancelling headphones.
[22:43:01] <c0lo> bytram, let the strawmen aside.
[22:43:29] <c0lo> Who is to replace him if his behaviour doesn't change?
[22:43:50] <NCommander> c0lo, off hand, I'm pretty sure most of the Debian Project Leaders who upheld the DFSG would be in the right mentality. I can see several CC board members, and others who've advocated for FOSS working
[22:44:10] <Bytram> lead by example. if it is good enough for me to suggest YOU do it, then I darn better be setting a good example of it, myself.
[22:44:31] <NCommander> I can easily come up with quite a few names that would do far better for FOSS and the FSF. I don't have anyone specifically in mind since I don't know who would even want the job of draining that swamp.
[22:44:48] <c0lo> OK, as an org, agree then on some and push them into view. I don't know them.
[22:45:06] <c0lo> It's a "political" position, not a tech one.
[22:45:16] <c0lo> I want to hear about them.
[22:45:24] <NCommander> Honestly, *I* could do a better ob advocating for free software, since I do hardly believe in it, and it's only due to people like rms that I tell people to avoid the FSF and related projects.
[22:45:33] <NCommander> *hardily
[22:45:35] <Bytram> NCommander: yanno, if you were to volunteer, I'd be all for it and lend what ever help and support I could
[22:45:53] <NCommander> I'd only ever be willing if the entire swamp was draining at the FSF.
[22:46:01] <NCommander> And there are better people suited
[22:46:25] <NCommander> But I'd start with the basis that I don't regularly attack people who disagree with me. I don't make people constantly uncomfortable in my presence.
[22:46:26] <Bytram> coming from you, that is high praise indeed!
[22:46:28] <NCommander> THe list goes on.
[22:46:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, that's why i was ribbing you about being a millennial. the idea that you need to agree with or even like the people you work with for them to make a valuable contribution. it's not something us old farts really think for the most part.
[22:46:59] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, even among old farts, there are those far better than rms.
[22:47:26] <NCommander> https://twitter.com - scroll to the top, this is one of the more notable rms stories I've heard.
[22:47:27] <systemd> ^ 03Twitter
[22:47:32] <c0lo> Look, I'm an outsider. I don't get to see the internals of FSF. Therefore I don't get to see RMS internal toxicity, but I do see his political stance outside.
[22:47:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> may well be. he could be king asshole of the year in non fsf stuff, but he's done a lot for the fsf.
[22:47:49] * Bytram combs his ever-whitening beard... doesn't hep one bit.
[22:47:54] <NCommander> c0lo, I know several conferences had staff refuse to work due to his abusive attitude.
[22:48:13] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, honestly, like what? Beyond the GPL, what has he done in the last 20 or so years that actively makes him so valuable?
[22:48:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> a fuckton of activism for free/open software.
[22:48:33] <NCommander> He architulated the idea of copyleft.
[22:48:34] <Bytram> he let go of maintaining emacs?
[22:48:38] <Runaway1956> LOL @ EthanolFueled
[22:48:38] <c0lo> Gimme somebody as a replacement, otherwise I'll still think it's a pitty that RMS was outted, as flawed a personality as he is.
[22:49:07] <c0lo> NCommander, I didn't see that as an outsider.
[22:49:23] <c0lo> What do you want me to judge upon?
[22:49:30] <NCommander> c0lo, so you're basically advocating for someone you don't know and haven't listened to the account of the people who he's driven out.
[22:49:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean you and me agree on pretty much nothing politics-wise but we worked just fine together coding this beastie. and i don't think you having ideas i think are silly makes your contributions any less valuable.
[22:49:56] <NCommander> Or do you want to claim that I don't have a valid viewpoint in saying tha tI will have nothing to do with the FSF because of rms, and that's a view I held since 2006.
[22:50:26] <c0lo> I am asking "who do you replace him with"!!!!
[22:51:08] <c0lo> I'm not asking to keep it, I'm asking you to make public an equally effective hardliner for OSS.
[22:51:13] <Runaway1956> Sometimes, it takes a warped twisted kind of person to get things done
[22:51:20] <NCommander> And IU'm arguing that rms isn't an effective hardliner
[22:51:22] <NCommander> He's a fucking joke
[22:51:23] <Runaway1956> Doesn't mean you have to work with them
[22:51:24] <c0lo> And I'd like to hear about that person(s)
[22:51:27] <NCommander> He's been a joke for 20+ years.
[22:51:52] <NCommander> A fucking kitchen table does a better job at advocating for free software because it doesn't actively drive off anyone whodoesn't submit to the cult of rms.
[22:51:54] <requerdanos> the list of positives for rms boils down to his ability to define software freedom, even in the face of disagreement, even in corner/edge cases, and define it well and properly and uncompromisingly. That role needs to be filled by someone with similar ability.
[22:52:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> i don't really know if RMS is worth keeping around since i don't know that the fsf is worth keeping around and i don't dig his ideals on hating closed source in all situations but i don't know his views on anything else and wouldn't care if i did unless they were relevant to the fsf.
[22:52:13] <requerdanos> but preferably without personal toxicity.
[22:52:22] <Bytram> Until I got into computers, they wre "majik boxes" and anybody who could command one filed me with awe. Now, not so much. Similarly, wrt FSF. I've known NCommander for years, hold his skills at least a couple *levels* beyond mine (and I'm no newbie, either). When NCommander says he looks up to certain other folk, that makes me pay *close* attention.
[22:52:25] <c0lo> ncommander, you are *not* listening. You keep arguing againt rms, and that seems to be the end of line for you.
[22:52:37] <c0lo> I'm asking "what's next"?
[22:52:56] <c0lo> And I don't get the answers.
[22:53:20] <Bytram> a part of the problem is all the GPL code that has its copyright assigned to the FSF
[22:54:04] <NCommander> c0lo, Kat Walsh is one of the people I'd like to see. She was a FSF board member who resigned when rms was re-installed. She was a lead at Wikimedia Foundation, and Creative Commons
[22:54:08] <Runaway1956> I know, I know c0lo: RMS Lite, a millenial trans who identifies as a Martian lolicopter
[22:54:31] <NCommander> But rms could still advocate for free software, he doesn't need to be i n a leadership role to do so.
[22:55:00] <c0lo> Ok, make the rest of the OSS public know about her.
[22:55:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> is he particularly a douchebag when talking about fsf stuff with other fsf members?
[22:55:38] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, yes.
[22:55:42] <c0lo> Think a bit about sorta election campaign in the good sene of it.
[22:55:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> give him a shiny watch and boot his ass then
[22:56:33] <NCommander> YOu knwo, this entire conversation is a waste of time because anyone I menthon you're going to shoot down as too obsecure. Most people stopping being involved because they got driven out. I'm perfectly happy with there being *no* rms replacement for the near future because of how much damage he's done
[22:56:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> if it's about what he thinks about anything else though, the fsf needs to suck it up and learn to get along with people they don't totally agree with
[22:57:07] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, they need to learn to not actively attack people and perhaps be civil.
[22:57:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> good advice for anyone, yup
[23:01:35] <c0lo> If you don't find a replacement for RMS, FSF wil become an org riden by corruption and infights the same way the EastEuropean countries became after the '90-ies.
[23:01:55] <c0lo> And Google and the rest will eat it alive.
[23:02:21] <c0lo> And that will be the end of story.
[23:02:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> you mean like the linux foundation?
[23:03:12] <c0lo> I don't know, I don't have visibility inside the linux foundation.
[23:03:40] <c0lo> I only know why I felt the need to emmigrate from one of the shitholes.
[23:04:51] <c0lo> Runaway1956-=1024
[23:06:06] <c0lo> I said and thought nothing about who to replace RMS with, except that it is a problem that *needs* to be addressed.
[23:06:53] <c0lo> If s/he's a soylatte but effective in maintaining the OSS hardline, so be it.
[23:07:49] <c0lo> After all, it's their world, you Runaway1956 are closer to your death than your birth
[23:07:54] <c0lo> (me too)
[23:15:37] * c0lo would like to hear at least "I see your point"
[23:18:20] <NCommander> I honestly don't, because I already said that I felt that a kitchen table is a better advocate for free software than stallman for multiple reasons.
[23:22:53] <c0lo> Well, in this case, go ahead and you'll get to learn it by direct experience. RIP FSF, if you didn't understand the need of projecting your mission publicly forceful enough to keep the nibbling Google at bay.
[23:23:56] <c0lo> This too shall come to pass, FSF is not special.
[23:25:29] <c0lo> Not my comment, but this one put the problem in perspective maybe in better words than mine https://soylentnews.org
[23:25:30] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews Comments | Free Software Advocates Seek Removal of Richard Stallman and Entire FSF Board ( https://soylentnews.org )
[23:26:39] <c0lo> (maybe RMS iss a hollow public image, but it is an image that needs to be projected)
[23:27:35] <c0lo> (find another projector, or FSS is a gonner)
[23:37:02] <bacterium> i thought it was good that rms resigned, because i also found his leadership style ineffective in the face of the new challenges
[23:37:47] <bacterium> i am conflicted about him rejoining the board, because ^^^, but on a personal level i like the guy, and who else can we trust these days?
[23:39:23] <bacterium> what i am not conflicted about is my stance on that letter due to mcgovern et al
[23:39:54] <bacterium> it strikes me as completely counterproductive: nasty in tone, and intellectually dishonest
[23:39:54] <mechanicjay> I REALLY need to stay out of this discussion, but the whisky is starting to percolate through my better judgment.
[23:48:47] <bacterium> the immediate fallout from this letter, afaict from FSF forum, is rounding the wagons, so if the signatories wanted RMS out, the joke in on them
[23:51:04] <bacterium> FSF can and will move on even if every single commercial company that makes free software turns against it. fsf does not make any software, and its stated goal is eliminating non-free software from the market, which means severe disruption for everyone
[23:52:45] <bacterium> for example, if forcing google chrome to be free via consumer protection makes mozilla go bankrupt, guess which side of the debate mozilla is going to be on
[23:55:01] <c0lo> bacterium, yes and no. FSF has a value in being the org that can potentially protect the GPL software. Up to the programmers to make replacements for commercial software.
[23:55:46] <c0lo> Otherwise, yes, if all the efforts are oriented towards demolition and none for building...
[23:56:18] <c0lo> ... then there's no point at all of wasting that effort.
[23:56:20] <FatPhil> Oi! C0lo! No!!!! Not all EastEuropean countries became
[23:56:36] <FatPhil> corruption-ridden shitholes in the 90s
[23:56:37] <bacterium> demolition of injustice, building of software, i am afraid during the transition there's going to be a civil war between paid software developers and social activists
[23:56:59] <c0lo> FatPhil, OK, I concede. Some were spared.
[23:57:07] <bacterium> and this is not about stallman or touching children, it's about big bux