#soylent | Logs for 2020-12-10

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[00:24:58] <Bytram> =g twitter elon musk
[00:24:59] <systemd> https://twitter.com - Elon Musk (@elonmusk) | Twitter
[00:26:40] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Australian Domestic Spy Agency to Spy on Australians Who Have Been Working for a Foreign Power - https://sylnt.us - spooky-spooks-follow-you-home
[00:27:13] <Bytram> https://twitter.com
[00:27:15] <systemd> ^ 03Twitter ( https://mobile.twitter.com )
[00:27:56] <Bytram> ^^^ Successful ascent, switchover to header tanks & precise flap control to landing point!
[00:28:25] <Bytram> https://twitter.com
[00:28:26] <systemd> ^ 03Twitter ( https://mobile.twitter.com )
[00:28:29] <Bytram> ^^^ Fuel header tank pressure was low during landing burn, causing touchdown velocity to be high & RUD, but we got all the data we needed! Congrats SpaceX team hell yeah!!
[00:36:01] <chromas> convenient cut right when it exploded. fake views
[00:36:38] <FatPhil> test will fail, that's why you do tests. Just don't do that too often.
[00:36:56] <carny> lld: https://www.supremecourt.gov
[00:37:00] <chromas> Did they have test dummies though?
[00:38:51] <Bytram> chromas: s/ve/ve crash /
[00:38:51] <SedBot> <Bytram> <chromas> Did they have crash test dummies though?
[00:39:09] <Bytram> Grrr, what did I do now?
[00:39:43] <Bytram> had noscript set up to default deny
[00:40:09] <FatPhil> who doesn't?
[00:40:20] <FatPhil> use lynx!
[00:40:28] <Bytram> but, now, when I load a page on Instragram, it defaults to allow?
[00:40:43] * Bytram used to have to temp allow for this page
[00:41:05] <FatPhil> what does the mouseover say about the perms?
[00:41:52] <lld> I use pale moon, disable javascript with a big red switch
[00:41:56] <Bytram> i.e. click on noscript logo in FF title bar, and used to have to click "Temp. Trusted"
[00:41:59] <lld> this kills all js
[00:42:08] <FatPhil> I've accidentally permabanned a site I occasionally whilst moving the mouse to keep the system from sleeping whilst I attempt to start sleeping.
[00:42:16] <FatPhil> +need
[00:42:21] <Bytram> now it loads up the page without my having to enable anytihng
[00:42:22] <lld> I do need something more granular
[00:42:44] <FatPhil> palemoon here too, so not the latest noscript
[00:43:04] <lld> I heard some shady things with noscript, how is it?
[00:43:21] <FatPhil> instagram is one of those No-JS-NoFcontent sites for me
[00:44:30] <FatPhil> lld: they did some slightly dodgy enabling, by default - friendly trusted ad serving sites - but they are manually disableable
[00:45:03] <lld> ah ok, just kill everything by default
[00:45:13] <lld> it is why I like ematrix
[00:45:31] <Bytram> yeah, a while back and disabled evrything I could find except file:// and //soylentnews.org
[00:45:42] <lld> FatPhil: what was the last working version for noscript?
[00:47:27] <FatPhil> my palemoon is ooooold, and I haven't upgraded noscript for over 2 years, I'm sure.
[00:48:31] <FatPhil> in the firefox that I'm occasionally forced to fall back on (the brewpub's BI pages), I use UBlock Origin, and that's very tweakable.
[00:49:09] * Runaway1956 likes uBlock Origin best
[00:49:14] <lld> FatPhil: what version are you on?
[00:49:21] <lld> I'll just pick that too
[00:49:23] <FatPhil> but I've even stopped upgrading that firefox, as they started to introduce too many misfeatures
[00:49:28] <lld> version of noscript
[00:49:50] <lld> Runaway1956: ematrix is just somewhat updated ublock for palemoon
[00:50:07] <FatPhil> lld: main computer's off now, I'm on my phone, will take a while to find out,
[00:50:24] <Runaway1956> I'll have to look at taht lld
[00:50:27] <lld> ok, let me know when you do find out
[00:50:41] <Runaway1956> palemoon on my machine runs noscript
[00:50:52] <lld> what do you have?
[00:50:59] <Bytram> fixed!
[00:51:25] <Bytram> manually added instagram.com and then marked it as Not Trusted
[00:52:02] <FatPhil> maybe this - not sure if that's the install for palemoon or firefox: ii xul-ext-noscript 2.9.0.11-1~deb8u1 all permissions manager for Firefox
[00:52:25] <lld> Runaway1956: https://addons.palemoon.org
[00:52:26] <systemd> ^ 03Pale Moon - Add-ons - ηMatrix
[00:52:46] <lld> ok imma look up that version
[00:52:54] <FatPhil> oooh, thanks for that, I might see if it works on my setup.
[00:53:03] <FatPhil> lld++
[00:53:03] <Bender> karma - lld: 3
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[00:55:23] <lld> 2.9.14 noscript seems to work on the latest palemoon
[00:55:36] <lld> 2.9.0.14
[00:58:03] <lld> err maybe not, I don't see any UI elements
[00:59:01] <lld> I'll check out the different versions later
[00:59:56] <Runaway1956> uBlock origin was 3 versions behind - updated now
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[01:53:10] <c0lo> Of covid https://www.concordmonitor.com
[01:53:12] <systemd> ^ 03New Hampshire House Speaker Richard Hinch dies
[01:59:26] <FatPhil> Back in March/April I was super-happy about how we were addressing the potential spread here. I think we got everything just right. Nothing closed apart from sports/music/club crowds, everything else open but distanced (e.g. pubs/restaurants @ ~half capacity)
[02:00:25] <FatPhil> june-august we basically had no cases apart from freak one-offs plus immediate contacts.
[02:01:17] <FatPhil> wave 2 we basically sat back and watched doing nothing. 5 times as bad as april? no problem, do nothing.
[02:02:45] <FatPhil> I've started to hope that some of our parliament go down with it, just so they can tangibly realise that the 60 unnecessary deaths we've had since august are their fault.
[02:03:18] <AzumaHazuki> the wealthy and powerful are shielded from consequences. i think that's why they're genuinely surprised when bad things happen to them
[02:03:38] <FatPhil> or their parents, I'm not fussy.
[02:03:40] <AzumaHazuki> the problem with this is they have no connection to us, so they can't therefore, by definition, be trusted to make the best policy choices.
[02:04:26] <FatPhil> in the US, that's certainly true. But here, in a country of just over a million - there should't be that disconnect.
[02:05:14] <carny> how can you say that 60 deaths in a population of millions is statistically significant?
[02:05:34] <carny> even if there had never been a single case of falsifying a death certificate in history
[02:05:50] <FatPhil> reword the question so it's answerable, please?
[02:06:14] <FatPhil> well, first of all, the population isn't millions.
[02:06:25] <FatPhil> you're new at this game aren't you?
[02:06:46] <carny> what's the population of estonia?
[02:06:52] <carny> =g what's the population of estonia?
[02:06:53] <systemd> https://www.worldometers.info - Estonia Population (2020) - Worldometer
[02:07:04] <FatPhil> just over a million, I told you up there ^
[02:08:35] <FatPhil> you love judging every country by the same standards that you imagine apply to the US. We're not all as messed up as your imagnation, you know.
[02:08:39] <carny> if it was 10,000 then 60 deaths would be indistinguishable from normal aging
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[02:09:08] <carny> no i've just sat at the bedside of enough old people as they died to know that old people die from something every day
[02:09:12] <FatPhil> except when they all happen in the same care home, and not at other care homes.
[02:09:56] <AzumaHazuki> FatPhil: check the backscroll. Carny is either a perma-troll or a sociopath. don't waste time on him
[02:09:58] <carny> you mean like the ones that died in the care homes in new york after the governor ordered critical care patients to be relocated there?
[02:10:28] <carny> this whole 'pandemic' reeks of malicious action
[02:10:36] <AzumaHazuki> see? everything's goddamn circle-the-wagons-and-defend-the-God-Emperor with this schmuck
[02:10:49] <carny> and none of your math models can deal with that
[02:11:01] <AzumaHazuki> hope you get the 'rona, a 7 figure hospital bill, and "long COVID" in that order, carny
[02:11:15] <FatPhil> hmmm, are you judging estonia based on your twisted view of the US?
[02:11:19] <AzumaHazuki> you can die cursing your fate and wait for the responsibile politicians at Hell's gate
[02:11:50] <FatPhil> are you doing what I accuse you of doing literally 2 lines after I accuse you of doing it?
[02:12:04] <FatPhil> Guilty as charged. Case closed.
[02:12:19] <carny> are you expecting me to believe that estonia is completely free from corruption?
[02:13:32] <FatPhil> ^ binary brain
[02:13:44] <FatPhil> all or nothing, no in-between
[02:14:47] <FatPhil> not as good as Finland, better than the other baltic states. Holding its own in the EU. It happens, but it gets stamped out quickly.
[02:15:06] <carny> so now you're expecting me to believe that it would take an enormous cabal to fake the cause of death on say 30 death certificates?
[02:15:17] <FatPhil> very high levels of accountability, and everyone knows someone in power
[02:15:44] <carny> or are you in fact suggesting that not a single medical professional with an agenda exists in estonia to account for some or all of those 60 outcomes?
[02:15:47] <FatPhil> I'm expecting you to believe whatever fairystory rocks your cradle tonight.
[02:16:04] <carny> how many millions of euro has the open society foundation spent there in the past year?
[02:16:05] <FatPhil> binary brain again! sheesh.
[02:16:16] <carny> just a curious question
[02:16:55] <carny> funny that you accuse me of that when i'm the analyst who classifies sources on a sliding scale no matter how much people like you choose to dismiss them
[02:17:16] <AzumaHazuki> pfffhahahahahaha
[02:17:29] <FatPhil> I accuse you of that because you demonstrate it repeatedly.
[02:17:34] <carny> which is why i was telling you that your data was full of garbage while you were still convinced that you could continue to model corruption like it was a natural process
[02:17:43] <AzumaHazuki> warn me when you're going to do that! i just about dd /usr/mug/tea | /dev/hazuki/nose > /mnt/desk
[02:17:50] <FatPhil> you never told me that
[02:17:57] <FatPhil> you are in fanntasy land
[02:18:31] <FatPhil> mostly as I never said what you said I said
[02:18:44] <FatPhil> you're in your own little cuckoo tree here.
[02:19:46] <FatPhil> AzumaHazuki: you can tie 10 surgical masks together into a bib for such occasions.
[02:20:01] <FatPhil> but still, wear a wipe-clean t-shirt just in case
[02:20:44] <FatPhil> My screen is telling me it's 4:20
[02:21:20] <FatPhil> not sure if there's any deeper meaning to that.
[02:21:56] <AzumaHazuki> this guy's a nut. i can't tell if he's just another one like Eth who got high on his own supply one time too many, or if he's actually insane
[02:22:48] <FatPhil> Does the /Flame Warriors/ site still exist? Maybe you can find a match there.
[02:23:08] <FatPhil> I openly admit to being /Jerk/.
[02:23:16] <AzumaHazuki> i don't think there was a precise match for people like that on there
[02:23:43] <AzumaHazuki> will say this though: if the liar is truth's rapist, the bullshitter is truth's impotent, morbidly-obese incel pimp
[02:23:57] <FatPhil> It was expanded a while back, but the page became dysfunctional in my browser, so I lost innterest.
[02:24:16] <requerdanos> The interesting thing about rational people, they don't craft what they say because it's what they "expect someone to believe"
[02:24:22] <requerdanos> they just say what is
[02:24:24] <FatPhil> /Blowhard/?
[02:25:16] <requerdanos> it's pathological liars who say something because it's what they "expect someone to believe"
[02:27:30] <carny> well i can't seem to find anything useful with grep
[02:28:18] <carny> so i'm just going to assume that perhaps you were too drunk at the time to remember and i was too lazy to write using easily parsable english
[02:28:39] <FatPhil> requerdanos: it's rational to modify what you say to make it more suitable for your intended audience.
[02:28:54] <requerdanos> Quite true, but not quite the same thing.
[02:29:22] <FatPhil> some modifications can include little white lies.
[02:29:35] <requerdanos> or at any rate, there's a line this side of which it's not the same thing
[02:29:38] <AzumaHazuki> i hate doing that, but it seems a lot of people simply cannot function otherwise
[02:29:53] <AzumaHazuki> i took a lot of needless trouble as a child and teenager for refusing to sugarcoat things
[02:30:13] <AzumaHazuki> even now i have a very difficult time lying even a tiny bit
[02:30:15] <FatPhil> "gravity is a force that acts towards the earth's centre" - heresy, wrong in so many ways!!
[02:30:32] <requerdanos> uh, gravity?
[02:30:59] <requerdanos> oh, example of deliberately false statement, okay
[02:31:30] <FatPhil> but a useful lie for most audiences
[02:31:55] <requerdanos> it's really more of an approximation, slightly off, but close enough
[02:32:05] <AzumaHazuki> gravity may not even be a fundamental force. i wonder sometimes if the reason QM and GR don't work together is the assumption that gravity is fundamental rather than emergent
[02:33:55] <FatPhil> The hardcore seem to give QM primacy over GR. Who knows what gravity may eventually turn out to be.
[02:33:56] <requerdanos> I guess if emergent, they have to figure at which point it emerges. Probably h*n for some small value of n
[02:34:32] <bacteria> depending on context, the gravity statement could be a "lie", but generally speaking, it's a correct scientific theory with well-established error bars & limits to application
[02:34:41] <AzumaHazuki> learning too much physics spoils the ability to navigate in the mundane. everything seems vaguely foggy and unreal to me, knowing about fields and vectors and suchlike
[02:34:59] <AzumaHazuki> even to know that the supposed solidity of my chair is just mutual electronic repulsion between its atoms and mine...
[02:35:15] <AzumaHazuki> this may be the scientific path to mysticism
[02:35:57] <FatPhil> but did bits of you evaporate whilst you were typing that?
[02:36:02] <AzumaHazuki> yes, actually
[02:36:16] <AzumaHazuki> some molecules of fat, sugar, etc were hydrolyzed and escaped as CO2 and H2O
[02:36:27] <FatPhil> are they still you?
[02:36:41] <AzumaHazuki> there is no me, really. well, there is, but it's an emergent phenomenon
[02:37:01] <FatPhil> yuppers
[02:37:06] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Russian 'Doomsday' Plane's Radio Equipment Stolen by Thieves - https://sylnt.us - can-you-hear-me-now?
[02:37:17] <AzumaHazuki> ...and now this emergent phenomenon needs to go to work. Ahh, the "ten thousand things"
[02:37:46] <FatPhil> OK, have a good one, as best you can
[02:37:52] <AzumaHazuki> thanks :)
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[02:48:07] <chromas> https://wsrp.org
[02:48:08] <systemd> ^ 03You asked for it... - WSRP
[02:52:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'll see your WSRP and raise you a WKRP
[02:52:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt zgrVP_J0BHk
[02:52:59] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com -- WKRP in Cincinnati Theme
[02:56:17] <Bytram> =yt adama maneuver
[02:56:18] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Battlestar Galactica | The Adama Maneuver (03:43; 1,019,169 views; 👍8,410 👎177)
[02:56:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> gravity is the desire of all matter to attract women with large knockers over women with small knockers
[02:57:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> 8008135++
[02:57:04] <Bender> karma - 8008135: 149
[02:58:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://www.youtube.com
[02:58:38] <systemd> ^ 03Toddler swing analysis at the Houston Open
[02:58:39] * TheMightyBuzzard cackles
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[03:48:26] <carny> https://www.nejm.org
[03:48:27] <systemd> ^ 03SARS-CoV-2 Transmission among Marine Recruits during Quarantine
[03:49:17] <carny> this one seems to have slipped by during the post election fever
[03:49:41] <carny> leave it to the jar heads to screw up the left's narrative
[04:32:48] <c0lo> "the epidemiologic analysis suggests that platoon membership and double-occupancy rooming were risk factors for infection, but room proximity and shared bathrooms were not"
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[04:48:08] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Roman Subjects Paid Emperor Piles of Silver to Leave Them Alone, Inscription Reveals - https://sylnt.us - Shocked!-Shocked-I-Say!
[05:21:15] <Bytram> =asub https://spacenews.com
[05:21:17] <systemd> Submitting "NASA selects cadre of astronauts for Artemis missions - SpaceNews"...( 1 modified urls; https://spacenews.com )
[05:21:39] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03NASA Selects Cadre of Astronauts for Artemis Missions - SpaceNews" (14 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
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[06:47:34] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Bees Paint Animal Poo on Their Homes to Repel Giant Hornets - https://sylnt.us - that's-some-good-shit
[08:23:52] <c0lo> https://apnews.com
[08:23:53] <systemd> ^ 03Tensions rise over masks as virus grips smaller US cities
[08:24:50] <lld> the tighter their grip, the more systems will slip through
[08:31:01] <c0lo> So true https://www.worldometers.info
[08:31:02] <systemd> ^ 03United States Coronavirus: 15,822,331 Cases and 296,715 Deaths - Worldometer ( https://www.worldometers.info )
[08:38:42] * bacteria wiggle
[08:39:06] <c0lo> =submit https://apnews.com
[08:39:07] <systemd> Submitting "Are dining tents a safe way to eat out during the pandemic?"...
[08:39:29] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Are Dining Tents a Safe Way to Eat Out During the Pandemic?" (16 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[08:45:42] <c0lo> https://apnews.com
[08:45:43] <systemd> ^ 03Pompeo unloads on US universities for China ties
[08:46:08] <c0lo> https://apnews.com
[08:46:08] <systemd> ^ 03China: US politicians digging hole for future relations
[08:51:51] <c0lo> =submit https://www.axios.com
[08:51:53] <systemd> Submitting "Google CEO pledges to investigate exit of top AI ethicist"...
[08:52:15] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Google CEO Pledges to Investigate Exit of Top AI Ethicist" (1 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[08:56:16] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - How Modern Mathematics Emerged from a Lost Islamic Library - https://sylnt.us - 1,-1,-2,-3,-5,-8,-.-.-.
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[09:53:06] <FatPhil> Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly = Dumb use yields a splendid crash (anagram, re SpaceX Starship proto SN8)
[09:53:27] <requerdanos> nice one
[09:56:58] <FatPhil> Use dumb ideas, crash splendidly.
[09:57:12] <FatPhil> I think i prefer the latter
[09:59:09] <requerdanos> It's all in how you allocate the letters.
[10:00:30] <FatPhil> anagrams tend to be that way
[10:12:26] <FatPhil> yikes, a local restaurant has as its lunch special today "oven baked ork ribs"
[10:17:32] <requerdanos> We don't eat much ork in this neck of the woods.
[10:29:50] <c0lo> Berkshire or Breitovo ork?
[10:39:12] * bacteria multiply
[10:39:30] <bacteria> *++
[10:40:38] <bacteria> MUL++
[10:40:38] <Bender> karma - mul: 1
[10:41:12] <bacteria> FMUL--
[10:41:12] <Bender> karma - fmul: -1
[10:43:27] <bacteria> FMUL--
[10:43:27] <Bender> karma - fmul: -2
[10:43:34] <bacteria> FMUL--
[10:43:34] <Bender> karma - fmul: -3
[10:43:35] <bacteria> FMUL--
[10:43:35] <Bender> karma - fmul: -4
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[10:45:50] <requerdanos> eating a lovely plate of pork, however
[10:59:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> oven baked? that's just a terrible thing to do to a pork rib.
[11:05:50] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Facebook Sued by FTC, States Over Alleged Abuse of Monopoly Power - https://sylnt.us - slowly-grinding-wheels-of-justice
[11:14:32] <requerdanos> pan fried breakfast chops, seasoned with coarse ground black pepper, salt, garlic
[11:14:37] <requerdanos> and a little msg
[11:20:29] <c0lo> =w char siu
[11:20:30] <systemd> Char siu (Chinese: 叉燒; pinyin: chāshāo; Cantonese Yale: chāsīu) is a popular way to flavor and prepare barbecued pork in Cantonese cuisine. It is classified - https://en.wikipedia.org
[11:26:17] <requerdanos> car shoe?
[11:30:24] <c0lo> I must go this weekend in the China Town, haven't had chinese fir almost an year now.
[11:30:41] <c0lo> I almost forgot the taste of msg.
[11:32:16] <c0lo> requerdanos to answer to your question look of what systemd quoted from w: "It is classified"
[11:33:23] <requerdanos> I keep an MSG shaker next to my salt and pepper shakers.
[11:34:22] <FatPhil> lock both the msg and the salt away! bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.
[11:35:09] <FatPhil> HOwever, char siu good good good good good.
[11:38:05] <requerdanos> ok i am going to read about car shoe on wikipedia
[11:44:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> look, if you're not going to smoke pork ribs, you need to just send them to me where they won't be abused.
[11:45:18] <requerdanos> I am not going to smoke them, but I am still going to eat them
[11:45:51] * TheMightyBuzzard hangs his head in deep sorrow
[11:46:25] <requerdanos> maybe with a yummy ketchup and honey glaze
[11:46:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> now you're just trying to wind me up
[11:46:48] <requerdanos> admittedly so.
[11:47:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> joke's on you, i come unwound long ago
[11:48:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, hey, it's cyberpunk2077 day
[11:48:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> and it works on the latest steam proton version
[11:49:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> need moar coffee n nicotine
[11:51:19] <FatPhil> druuuuugs!
[11:57:47] <FatPhil> =submit https://www.nytimes.com
[11:57:49] <systemd> Submitting "Singapore Approves a Lab-Grown Meat Product, a Global First"...
[11:58:11] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Singapore Approves a Lab-Grown Meat Product, a Global First" (21 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[11:59:23] <FatPhil> I like a slice of cheese product on my meat product
[12:01:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> if it wasn't part of something that pooped, it's not meat
[12:02:59] <requerdanos> lab-grown meat is meatlike, meatish, meaty, meet, etc.
[12:05:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> man, i don't wanna wait for the mail to run to get my copy of cyberpunk 2077
[12:05:17] <c0lo> TMB, enjoy the cyberpunk2077 launch bugs.
[12:05:53] <requerdanos> ah, sour grapes. I am sure the gamorz will enjoy $new_game -- let em have their fun
[12:05:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> but of course
[12:06:51] <FatPhil> so you're saying that poop is the meat product?
[12:07:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> unfortunately we got it for console as a christmas present for TR's kids. and they're going to be here this evening, so i can't play it till tuesday.
[12:07:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, no, just a necessary qualification
[12:09:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> there must also be killing involved
[12:13:54] <Bytram> coffee++
[12:13:54] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5411
[12:14:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[12:14:36] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5412
[12:16:59] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: gotta say, it may not seem like much to you, but I sure do appreciate the colorization of feed names in #rss-botc
[12:17:07] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard++
[12:17:07] <Bender> karma - themightybuzzard: 394
[12:18:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> yar, enjoy
[12:23:14] <Bytram> afk, biab
[12:31:56] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[12:41:03] <c0lo> Oh, gosh, really? https://www.theguardian.com
[12:41:05] <systemd> ^ 03Rats besiege New York Chipotle, eating avocados and attacking staff
[12:44:30] <c0lo> =submit https://www.theguardian.com
[12:44:32] <systemd> Submitting "Details revealed of secret deal that gave Chinese spies free rein in Switzerland"...( 1 modified urls; http://www.theguardian.com )
[12:44:54] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Details Revealed of Secret Deal That Gave Chinese Spies Free Rein in Switzerland" (24 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[13:05:32] <AzumaHazuki> question: does "holy infant so tender and mild" imply the existence of a tough, peppery, spicy infant somewhere, infant jerky as it were? asking for an atheist friend as it is known they eat babies
[13:08:42] <FatPhil> if the exception proves the rule, then *all* infants are basically jerky
[13:15:28] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Amazon Sidewalk Will be Enabled by Default on Echo Devices - https://sylnt.us - ripe-for-abuse
[13:35:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, AzumaHazuki, sounds reasonable to me. i've never test-licked a baby though cause they tend to smell quite bad.
[13:36:44] <FatPhil> g/f & have been working on the principle that they're all jerks for the last 2 decades, so lacking jammy snotty first-hand evidence myself.
[13:41:07] <Runaway1956> c0lo - New York needs to import and breed some mink, ferrets, weasels and otters to cure their rat problem
[13:41:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup, that's cause they're socialists. you got what they want and they'll scream like hell until you either surrender or kill them.
[13:42:00] <Runaway1956> TheMightyBuzzard - USA needs to import and breed the same animals to cure our socialist problems
[13:42:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> how bout we just export our socialists to socialist nations?
[13:42:46] <Runaway1956> That might be seen as an act of war against civilized nations
[13:42:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean, cuba's a shining socialist paradise, right?
[13:43:15] <Runaway1956> I think Cuba is the "best" example of a socialist state, but it doesn't exactly shine
[13:44:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> china's got plenty of room and they'll fit right in what with how they want any dissent from the party line crushed
[13:44:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> plus you wouldn't have to go far at all to find a good chinese food place
[13:45:01] <Runaway1956> Email entitled: Important policy changes for Google Account storage
[13:45:22] <Runaway1956> Yeah, but I'm always hungry again after eating Chinese
[13:45:37] <Ingar> USA _is_ the model socialist state: steal from the people and give it to a select few
[13:46:06] <AzumaHazuki> Ingar, Uzzard and Runaway are a sociopath and a fox-news jihadi respectively.
[13:46:14] <AzumaHazuki> don't waste your breath trying to reason with them
[13:46:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah but i can't convince folks of the badness of involuntary taxation so that's gonna continue
[13:46:28] <AzumaHazuki> aaaaaaand there we go
[13:46:28] <Ingar> AzumaHazuki: I know, not going to reason either ;)
[13:46:39] <Runaway1956> When does 'Zumi learn that calling names only proves that she has no argument to advance
[13:46:47] <Ingar> I just heard our police is now using drones with heatseeking camera's to find illegal gatherings
[13:46:47] <AzumaHazuki> "show me my signature on the social contract!!11111one"
[13:47:02] <Ingar> so I have no illusions about my socialist wellfare state
[13:47:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> you don't get to decide what's on the social contract. us non-thieves are part of society too
[13:48:17] <Runaway1956> The socialist in my house drank all my coffee, and expects me to brew more
[13:48:26] <Runaway1956> that's how they do you
[13:48:51] <Ingar> thanks to the socialists my dentist bill last month was cheap
[13:48:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> you'd better. not for moral reasons but purely for self preservation purposes.
[13:49:00] <Ingar> oth
[13:49:26] <Ingar> one of our socialist ministers is the biggest rght wing hardliner I've seen in years
[13:49:39] <Ingar> and he wasn't even elected
[13:50:28] <Ingar> also, there is no social contract. there is law. which is enforced into the people at the point of a gun
[13:50:55] <Ingar> (sry not sure how to write that in proper english)
[13:51:00] * AzumaHazuki wonders why it is that nations of "thieves" like Canada and Denmark are so much better to live in
[13:51:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, trash day. i'll leave yall to your politalks
[13:51:43] <Runaway1956> Yeah, trash day here too - I took out the trash yesterday, and cleaned up around the trash cans already
[13:51:51] * Runaway1956 wins trash day this week
[13:51:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, cause your values are not american values. you don't appreciate the things those of us who like america appreciate.
[13:52:07] <Ingar> I just had to deal with an Ukraenean truck driver, I already had my fun for the day
[13:52:25] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, and that's bad because...?
[13:52:25] <Ingar> *Ukrainian
[13:52:39] <Ingar> AzumaHazuki: I don't speak ukraenian
[13:52:42] <Ingar> nor russian :)
[13:52:45] <Runaway1956> You mean "Ukie"
[13:52:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, didn't say it was. just means you're not going to enjoy being part of america.
[13:52:56] <AzumaHazuki> i can curse in russian and do so profusely
[13:53:14] <Ingar> I can curse in english
[13:53:16] <AzumaHazuki> it's helpful in a professional environment as no one knows what "oi pizdec" means
[13:53:18] <Runaway1956> grab baba yaga
[13:53:22] <Ingar> (which is my 3rd language actually)
[13:53:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> blah, stop distracting me or ima have to wait a week with trash bags all over the house.
[13:53:59] * Runaway1956 doesn't mind trash bags around Buzzard's house
[13:54:10] <Ingar> TheMightyBuzzard: don't worry, I still have work to do and will be gone in a few miutes ;)
[13:54:39] <Runaway1956> tylenol++
[13:54:39] <Bender> karma - tylenol: 2
[13:54:56] <Runaway1956> coffee++
[13:54:56] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5413
[13:56:26] <FatPhil> Ingar: .ua truck driver!?!?? wear a mask and don't shake hands! .ua's the 2nd largest source of our covid cases after .ru.
[13:57:09] * Runaway1956 puts a mask on all my browser user agents
[13:57:40] <Runaway1956> Thanks FatPhil I never thought of that vector
[14:03:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> make sure to not accept cookies too. you never know who's been handling them.
[14:12:27] <FatPhil> it's those jammy snotty hands again
[14:13:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> and just in case some of yall ain't watched it recently enough, https://www.youtube.com
[14:13:35] <systemd> ^ 03How Binary Works
[14:15:09] <Ingar> FatPhil: I haven't shaked hands with anybody in months, mouthmask also mandatory at work
[14:16:30] <Ingar> besides, we've been in covid top 10 ourselves
[14:17:25] <Ingar> I think belgium was even second after US for a while (in number of new infections)
[14:18:40] <c0lo> TMB "export our socialists to socialist nations" - your socialists are center-right here, you will have to pay us serious tuition money for their re-education. Pehaps you can raise some taxes for it?
[14:18:42] <FatPhil> neither grand totals nor daily stats are particularly informative when countries have such waves that are out of sync with each other. Who does 4-week moving averages?
[14:19:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> hey now, this isn't a serious screenplay. watch the language.
[14:19:24] <Ingar> FatPhil: basicly, my personal stance on this since the very beginning has been "every statistic is wrong"
[14:19:26] <FatPhil> c0lo++ +1 touche
[14:19:26] <Bender> karma - c0lo: 17
[14:19:30] <Ingar> I'm not losing any sleep over it
[14:19:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, they're socialists. they're overjoyed to give their money to the state for any reason.
[14:20:48] <c0lo> TMB "cuba's a shining socialist paradise" at 12 covid death/1M, they're much better than the 3rd world country that's USA (grin)
[14:20:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> you know, we might could even turn a profit if we sold them to nations wishing to become more socialist.
[14:21:04] <FatPhil> When someone highlights the fact that you don't know what a socialist is, it's best to not respond with something that demonstrates you don't know what a socialist is.
[14:22:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, you get the overwhelming majority of people calling themselves socialists to stop being exactly like what i'm saying and i'll stop calling them socialists.
[14:22:22] <FatPhil> I suspect you're being parochial
[14:22:30] <FatPhil> 96% of the world isn't the US
[14:22:41] * TheMightyBuzzard quirks a brow
[14:22:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> i wasn't talking of the US
[14:23:01] <AzumaHazuki> stop drinking municipal tap water, stop driving on public roads, go out into the forest naked and kill your food with your bare hands. otherwise you're a giant goddamn hypocrite
[14:23:12] <AzumaHazuki> i mean we already know that...
[14:23:14] <c0lo> You can stop suspecting him, FatPhil. He certainly is.
[14:23:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, you need a better argument, that one's hyperbolic and silly.
[14:23:32] <FatPhil> The properties you attribute to "socialism" are found in all of the nordo-scandic countries. None of them are socialist countries.
[14:23:41] <AzumaHazuki> no it isn't. humans are social animals, and you did not get here on your own merits
[14:24:09] <AzumaHazuki> you like to call yourself asocial but that's a flimsy justification for your inability to relate to other humans
[14:24:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, yes, i did.
[14:24:33] <AzumaHazuki> oh, your mother shat you out and you were working fulltime from day 1?
[14:24:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> and i don't call myself asocial
[14:24:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> that was her decision and thus her obligation
[14:25:02] <AzumaHazuki> lies. she could have decided to just drop you in a dumpster
[14:25:11] <requerdanos> Actually that's illegal
[14:25:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes, and she didn't. which is the point.
[14:25:27] <AzumaHazuki> beats me why :v
[14:25:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> cause i was wicked cute
[14:25:37] <FatPhil> it would have been more libertarian to chuck him in a dumpster.
[14:25:47] <AzumaHazuki> one reason i'm glad to be gay is there is zero chance of ever pushing out something like you, uzzard
[14:26:00] <requerdanos> gay people have kids. not unheard of.
[14:26:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, libertarian don't mean uncaring. it means we don't want the government telling us what we have to care about and then forcing us to.
[14:26:45] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, fuck public health. and while we're at it, fuck roads, sewers, water treatment, food standards...
[14:27:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're not after roads, sewer, water treatment, and food standards though
[14:27:44] <AzumaHazuki> christ, i cannot believe you're still alive with this mindset. you'd be long dead were it not for the things you decry as "socialism"
[14:27:56] * TheMightyBuzzard yawns
[14:27:56] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into TheMightyBuzzard's gaping mouth
[14:28:10] <AzumaHazuki> fuck off out of society and hunt squirrels in the woods with your dong out, hypocrite. we don't want you either
[14:28:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> we've lived for many thousands of years without socialism. we'll continue to do so if it goes away.
[14:28:35] <requerdanos> Some government functions -- aka "socialism" -- are important. Others aren't. Libertarians seek a reduction in the role of government.
[14:29:02] <requerdanos> wait, you think we don't have any socialism now???
[14:29:09] <AzumaHazuki> so they say, but scratch a libertarian and most of the time you'll find a selfish, ignorant asshole with as much knowledge of statecraft as the average limpet does of mountaineering
[14:29:16] <AzumaHazuki> this guy is a perfect example
[14:29:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, libertarians seek precisely as much government as necessary and not a drop more.
[14:29:39] <AzumaHazuki> and who decides what is necessary...?
[14:30:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> necessary isn't difficult to define objectively
[14:30:17] <requerdanos> ideally, the people, through our representatives do the deciding
[14:30:18] <AzumaHazuki> please do so :)
[14:30:36] <AzumaHazuki> also, make sure to inform every other libertarian that where they disagree with you they are wrong
[14:30:39] <AzumaHazuki> this may take some time
[14:30:42] <requerdanos> We just don't have enough libertarian representatives
[14:31:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> let's just go with the dictionary: required to be done, achieved, or present; needed; essential
[14:31:23] <requerdanos> that "needed" can be stretched pretty far.
[14:31:25] <AzumaHazuki> no, no, no. that's tautological and vacuous. give us specifics
[14:31:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, do you really think i pass up a chance to inform someone who disagrees with me that they're wrong, regardless of their political affiliation?
[14:31:51] <AzumaHazuki> Shirley ewe've thought this out in great detail and have a working model
[14:31:59] <AzumaHazuki> come on, tell us what's necessary and not
[14:32:15] <requerdanos> "Vote L not R or D" is a pretty good working model initially
[14:33:30] <c0lo> requerdanos "we just don't have enough libertarian representatives" libertarianism is not something homogenous, it's a semiplane determined by the authritarian/libertarian axis.
[14:33:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> requerdanos, i don't vote L unless i like the candidate. this time around i voted Kanye and then anti-incumbent down the line.
[14:34:17] <c0lo> https://www.politicalcompass.org
[14:34:17] <AzumaHazuki> so, you going to tell us what is and is not necessary for government to do, or just pretend no one asked the question in hopes no one figures out you're full of shit?
[14:34:18] <systemd> ^ 03The Political Compass
[14:34:33] <AzumaHazuki> you made the claim, back it the fuck up
[14:34:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, no, i'm just going to ignore you since this is headed for you nit-picking and not a real discussion.
[14:35:19] <AzumaHazuki> horseshit. you don't have a working model or even an idea
[14:35:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> if you say so
[14:35:39] <AzumaHazuki> i didn't, you did. rather, your lack of engagement says so
[14:35:51] <AzumaHazuki> you talk big but it's all hot air and pants-pissing
[14:35:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> okey doke, i must not then
[14:37:18] <AzumaHazuki> but you sounded so certain and confident before! as much as necessary and not a drop more...so how much IS that?
[14:38:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> 3.5 gallons
[14:38:49] <FatPhil> AzumaHazuki: he does have a working model, for workingness of his own definition, namely the wild west.
[14:39:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> newp
[14:39:28] <AzumaHazuki> okay then, chief shitting bull, lay it on us :D
[14:40:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, but zumi never listens to what i say anyway. she imagines shit up and then swears she has divine insight to what goes through my head.
[14:40:04] <FatPhil> You've never coherently stated anything that differs from the wild west, and two things that can't be distinguished are to all intents the same.
[14:40:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, yes, i have. quite a lot of times.
[14:40:36] <FatPhil> I don't think you realise what you say a lot of the time, then.
[14:40:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> this very morning even
[14:41:09] <AzumaHazuki> FatPhil: he's a bullshitter. he doesn't CARE whether anything he says has any relation to observable reality or anything he previously said so long as it meets his short-term desires
[14:41:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> i think you just don't pay attention because your mind's already made up.
[14:41:22] <AzumaHazuki> also he projects like mad ^
[14:41:35] <c0lo> TMB, you sure? I can'r remember something coherent from you.
[14:41:39] <AzumaHazuki> c0lo: https://www.politicalcompass.org this is where i ended up on that test. it makes sense
[14:41:39] <systemd> ^ 03The Political Compass
[14:41:55] <c0lo> Other than coffee increments.
[14:41:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, https://soylentnews.org
[14:41:57] <systemd> ^ 03Facebook Sued by FTC, States Over Alleged Abuse of Monopoly Power - SoylentNews
[14:42:44] <FatPhil> Havent' taken it for ~2 years (will retake on Jan 1), but I think I was ec=-2.75 soc=-4.75
[14:43:15] <FatPhil> "Hippy" on yesterday's image from #otherchan
[14:44:01] <c0lo> Well, TMB, that exactly on FatPhil's line "You've never coherently stated anything that *differs from the wild west*"
[14:44:17] <c0lo> Granted, that's coherent.
[14:49:05] <FatPhil> https://i.4cdn.org
[14:49:25] <FatPhil> the accuracy of which is not up for debate.
[14:51:49] <AzumaHazuki> smack dab in the environmentalist square. that kinda makes sense for me. i'm not a vegetarian so not AS crunchy a granola dyke as i could be but...yeah
[14:53:16] <c0lo> 'Zumi, I'm a tad to the right of you. Age related probably.
[14:53:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> no pirates or ninjas either one on there. i gave up wanting to be a cowboy when i found out how much work it was.
[14:53:49] <FatPhil> 4 & 6 years ago, I was a tad further left, safely in the progressive square.
[14:53:57] <Ingar> that site doesnt even work here
[14:54:01] <Ingar> (the compass thing)
[14:54:32] <FatPhil> I was more attractive then too, so the image is appropriate too.
[14:54:36] <c0lo> Ingar, try Tor
[14:54:52] <Ingar> I've always considered myself rather leftish, growing more rightish with age
[14:55:03] <Ingar> but both left and right have been in power here and they're both idiots
[14:55:16] <c0lo> (I need to rely on Tor when I go to archive.is)
[14:55:18] <Ingar> so I really don't care any more :D
[14:55:56] <Ingar> I'll just be a get-off-my-lawn old bastard
[14:56:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> sounds good. i've been practicing at that since i was 16.
[14:56:36] <Ingar> and in all irony, I'm opposed to lawns
[14:56:46] <Ingar> a waste of time and resources
[14:56:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> wait, 15. i couldn't drive when the epiphany hit me.
[14:56:55] <FatPhil> Ah, needs JS for the image: https://www.politicalcompass.org
[14:56:57] <systemd> ^ 03The Political Compass
[14:57:57] <c0lo> TMB, I could sympathize with your position if this world would not be at about 8B. Today's not possible without arbitration and I don't trust the greed of corporations as the arbiter.
[14:58:14] <Ingar> you know lawns were invented by "the rich" to show off how much fertile land they could waste
[14:59:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> mine's so i can see critters in my yard without having dust blowing up in my face every time i step outside.
[14:59:26] <c0lo> FatPhil++ informative.
[14:59:26] <Bender> karma - fatphil: 91
[14:59:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, you're assuming my position.
[14:59:49] <Ingar> TheMightyBuzzard: just put some platns with evil thorns, keeps everyone away from your garden
[14:59:54] <Ingar> wild blackberries work fine
[15:00:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> doesn't work on rabbits or snakes or such
[15:00:46] <c0lo> TMB, what do you think I'm assuming beyond "No, I don't like government interference in private industry."
[15:01:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> well, for starters you're leaving off the next sentence
[15:02:06] <c0lo> That's irelevant for what I said.
[15:02:39] <c0lo> It's not about competition, it's about the health of the catfish you're catching.
[15:03:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> the government has legitimate uses in *some* regulation of the market. i think it needs to be written by people who despise the thought but acknowledge the need.
[15:04:38] <Ingar> "private industry" like scalping PS5's
[15:04:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> currently we have it being alternately written by people overjoyed by the thought and those saying fuck the need, who wants to buy special treatment?
[15:04:39] <c0lo> Well, well. Aren't you a socialist, TMB? Because that's exactly my position: there are *some* things that one need the government, and you call me socialist for it.
[15:05:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> your idea of need and mine differ radically
[15:06:00] <FatPhil> c0lo: you misunderstand his grate wisdom - he admits that the govt should do something, it's just that he shouldn't have to pay for the govt to do that. Someone else's money should be used to pay for it.
[15:06:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> but no, i'm just a realist.
[15:06:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, horseshit
[15:06:36] <FatPhil> Those are pretty much quotes from this channel today.
[15:07:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> then you are completely blinded by your preconceived notions of me
[15:07:08] <FatPhil> Well the 2 inputs to the syllogism are, the conclusion logically follows.
[15:07:30] <c0lo> I can imagine TMB saying "Some govt, but *not* my money"
[15:07:31] <FatPhil> I'm blinded by the words you use, I keep interpreting them to mean what they mean?
[15:07:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, then you're being just as silly as Phil
[15:08:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, you're blinded by your interpretation of them, yes.
[15:08:26] <c0lo> Then maybe it'll help if you say something coherent?
[15:08:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> what would you like to know?
[15:08:41] <FatPhil> If everyone misinterprets what you say, perhaps the common link is what you say?
[15:08:55] <FatPhil> And the cause is the person who says it.
[15:09:22] <c0lo> Like how much govt, for what purposes and who should pay for it?
[15:09:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> everything i've said today has said exactly what it was meant to say, i can't help you reading what you want from it though
[15:09:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, pick one
[15:09:40] <c0lo> Maybe a journal entry rather that irc.
[15:10:15] <c0lo> How about all 3, with the relation between them?
[15:10:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'd have to kick myself for spamming
[15:10:36] <c0lo> You know? It may help your coherence.
[15:10:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> how bout this one, you both seem to be under the impression that i'm against taxation. and i've never said that.
[15:11:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> i've said quite a lot of times i'm against involuntary taxation but that is not the same thing.
[15:11:50] <c0lo> "i'd have to kick myself for spamming" This is why I was suggesting the journal.
[15:12:24] <c0lo> And how do you see voluntary taxation to maintain EPA?
[15:12:39] <FatPhil> EPA's dead, no need to fund it any more!
[15:13:02] <c0lo> (as an example of agency tasked to keep your catfish free of teflon)
[15:13:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, can't figure it out?
[15:13:16] <c0lo> No.
[15:13:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> try harder.
[15:13:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> ima go smoke. see if you can think of a way before i get back.
[15:13:56] <FatPhil> TMB doesn't seem to realise that "voluntary taxation" is practically the definition of *communism*.
[15:14:02] <c0lo> (or rather don't want to second-guess you. But the resut is the same: I want to hear *your* solution)
[15:14:12] <FatPhil> Let's not tell him, so we can laugh at him behind his back, hihihi
[15:15:37] <c0lo> It's not about my idea about how TMB has a coherent system of value, I want to hear TMB explaining his coherence beyond Wild West, unlimited resources, just shit in one place and move yonder after.
[15:16:42] <AzumaHazuki> he's never going to because he can't. you saw what happened when i challenged him to above
[15:17:09] <c0lo> Can't hurt tring to, 'zumi.
[15:17:29] <AzumaHazuki> the long and short of it is, he's full of shit to the level of the Augean Stables and every time he uses a high-sounding term it's to justify his own sociopathy
[15:17:40] <AzumaHazuki> there is not a functioning human in there. that is something wearing a skin suit
[15:17:55] <Ingar> Reminds me of Edgar
[15:21:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, i could give you several but how about we start with: if you want something, you pay for it
[15:22:11] <AzumaHazuki> you know, i hear the term "cuck" thrown around by his type a lot. for a guy who claims to be part-Indian (hah), the degree to which he's thrown out his heritage and wholeheartedly embraced what the invaders did to him borders on porn. "cuck" indeed.
[15:22:30] <AzumaHazuki> some kind of economic or cultural Stockholm Syndrome?
[15:22:57] <FatPhil> So attempt 1 is a completely non-functional system.
[15:24:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, you saying it wouldn't work for anything people actually think they need when it demonstrably does work for things they only kind of like?
[15:24:49] <FatPhil> I'm saying it's a completely non-functional system. What bit about the words "completely non-functional system" did you not understand?
[15:25:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> the part where you supported your claim with reasons
[15:25:33] <FatPhil> You have 300 years of reading to catch up on.
[15:25:35] <FatPhil> I can wait.
[15:25:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> because it absolutely does work for SN, PBS, and any number of other organizations.
[15:26:02] <FatPhil> How are they societies?
[15:26:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> and if people aren't willing to pay for it, then they obviously don't want it very badly
[15:26:17] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - NASA Selects Cadre of Astronauts for Artemis Missions - https://sylnt.us - back-to-the-moon
[15:27:15] <FatPhil> So your evidence that a society can work that way is that some people have paid for some things historically?
[15:27:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, how are they not? societies are nothing but large communities.
[15:27:24] <FatPhil> Total tosh
[15:27:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> explain to me how they differ
[15:27:52] <FatPhil> Explain to me how they are similar at all.
[15:28:02] * TheMightyBuzzard sighs
[15:28:35] <FatPhil> One's a society, the other's a corporation. "composed of humans" is not a strong enough trait.
[15:28:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> societies are groups of people interacting together on a large scale, mostly voluntarily.
[15:28:43] <FatPhil> Disagree
[15:28:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> then you're wrong
[15:29:15] <c0lo> TMB, I want the river flowing clean. DuPont, private entity like me but with big pockets, doesn't care about it and shits all the teflon residues it it. How do you think I'm gonna pay?
[15:29:20] <FatPhil> Nope, you just have incredible tunnel vision.
[15:29:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, how does greenpeace get funded?
[15:29:46] <FatPhil> irrelevant
[15:29:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> and do you not think they might run a funding drive for such?
[15:30:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, i just made it directly relevant right there
[15:30:13] <FatPhil> Fuck me - you want the wild west - you're proving it with every line you type.
[15:30:24] <c0lo> greeanpeace doesn't have the authority to stop dupont, I'd be paying 4 nothing. Next?
[15:30:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> and there we go with seeing what you want again
[15:30:45] <FatPhil> Your approach to relevance was via the position of "completely stupid".
[15:30:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> greenpeace has the authority to raise funds for federal enforcement
[15:30:54] <FatPhil> irrelevant
[15:31:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> i wasn't talking to you, phil. you've already made up your mind.
[15:31:16] <FatPhil> coward
[15:31:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, nothing i can say to you will change your mind. not detailed explanations and refutations of everything you think you know.
[15:31:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> arguing with you is a null op
[15:32:27] <c0lo> And for everything I want clean, (waterways, air, rosds, soil), I need to call greenpeace on a case by case basis? That's your proposal?
[15:32:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, no... listen carefully...
[15:32:47] <FatPhil> I do believe that you aren't coherent enough to make me change my mind about anything. But that's nothing to do with the state of my mind, that's to do with the illogic and incoherence of your arguments.
[15:33:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> greenpeace raises funds for the EPA. the EPA does the enforcing.
[15:33:23] <FatPhil> The fact you couldn't even see the trap that c0lo laid for you is proof your tunnel-vision is subatomic.
[15:33:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, you don't refute my arguments. you just say irrelevant or otherwise summarily dismiss them.
[15:33:42] <c0lo> Why do I need the greenpeace intermediary?
[15:33:59] <FatPhil> when you jump to an irrelevancy, then saying "irrelevant" is a valid refutation.
[15:34:01] <c0lo> Why can't I pay straight EPA?
[15:34:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, efficiency? you could do it individually but organization does help.
[15:34:11] <FatPhil> The EPA
[15:34:16] <FatPhil> 's an organisation
[15:34:18] <requerdanos> I think greenpeace was for the fundraising the EPA was going to need. You said you were small, otherwise you could pay it yourself, right?
[15:34:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> campaigning for what you want as a group is more efficient than doing so individually.
[15:34:59] <FatPhil> What if DuPont raise more money than Greenpeace?
[15:35:16] <requerdanos> irrelevant.
[15:35:21] <c0lo> And you call this efficiency? Fir everything that I need clean/healty I need to campaign?
[15:35:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> what if they do? the raising of money is to fund something.
[15:35:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> what is available for funding should not be up for sale.
[15:35:55] <FatPhil> completely relevant - if you can't see the connection, adjust your blinkers, you've got buzzovision.
[15:36:12] <FatPhil> Non workable system. As I said.
[15:36:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, you're thinking every instance would need separate funding. no. pick a level of funding you want the epa to have and fund it to that.
[15:36:24] <requerdanos> the money raised was for enforcement, which can't be countered with just money, unless it really is idiocracy
[15:36:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, and dismissive without argument, like i said.
[15:37:09] <FatPhil> don't be an idiot, requerdanos, nobody's decided what will be enforced yet.
[15:37:25] <FatPhil> The argument's there Buzz, you're just too dim to see it.
[15:37:40] <c0lo> Ok. I picked a level and I'm funding EPA. How's guaranteeing I don't pay for nothing? (i.e. dupont pays adversially more?)
[15:37:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, assume the laws on the books right now then. they'd be changed by the standard means anyway, so it'll be exactly what it'll be anyway.
[15:37:50] <requerdanos> why sure, it's the clean whatever act, enforced against brawndo.
[15:37:58] <requerdanos> I mean dupont.
[15:38:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> "irrelevant" is not an argument. it's a dismissal. you have to say how it's irrelevant.
[15:38:43] <FatPhil> Assuming the laws on the books right now is incompatible with your proposed system. You're now contradicting yourself.
[15:38:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, there's no adversarial fund to pay in to.
[15:39:02] <FatPhil> Then there's no fund to pay into either.
[15:39:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> we don't have a government agency in need of funding that goes around fucking things up for the epa
[15:39:28] <FatPhil> How are you distinguishing Greenpeace and its wants from DuPont and its wants?
[15:39:29] <requerdanos> actually, yeah, that's energy
[15:39:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, there is nothing for dupont to fund. we do not have a let's fuck the environment up as much as possible agency.
[15:40:12] <FatPhil> How can you be this dense?
[15:40:32] <FatPhil> Answer the previous question. I need to know how utterly braindead you are.
[15:40:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> apparently it's caused by logic and reason.
[15:40:41] <c0lo> So, there's EPA, there are laws, you just don't want govt to collect the money, but only me paying straight to EPA?
[15:41:03] <FatPhil> Who chose the laws?
[15:41:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, or an intermediary fundraising institution, yup.
[15:41:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, same as now.
[15:41:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> for the sake of this argument anyway
[15:41:23] <FatPhil> So not your system
[15:41:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> only if you haven't been listening
[15:41:38] <FatPhil> We can't debate your system by assumuing not your system.
[15:41:58] <FatPhil> i have, and I keep telling you that your system and not your system are different systems
[15:42:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> what the laws are and how they are funded are separate things. i'm talking about the latter only.
[15:42:30] <c0lo> Now, the matter of scale. If there's only me and you that likes catfish around and all the others don't care, what happens with "our" river?
[15:42:38] <FatPhil> Well, that's a non-functioning system, then
[15:42:46] <FatPhil> Because laws need to be changeable.
[15:42:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, it doesn't get stocked by government fish farms
[15:43:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, no shit? who said they wouldn't be?
[15:43:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're assuming things i have not said. stop and it will make sense.
[15:43:45] <c0lo> Assume no restocking is necessary, just the viability of it.
[15:43:53] <requerdanos> Handy reference: BEFORE: "Laws are made/changed by the legislature(s)." AFTER: "Laws are made/changed by the legislature(s)."
[15:43:55] <FatPhil> So who choses the new laws?
[15:44:02] -!- AzumaHazuki has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[15:44:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, the same people who do now
[15:44:16] <FatPhil> Who pays for the legislature?
[15:44:17] <requerdanos> well, technically, different people
[15:44:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> whoever wants to, otherwise they pay for it themselves (the legislators)
[15:45:04] <FatPhil> You've already changed your compromise - you've not just inherited all the old laws, you've inherited all the old institutions too.
[15:45:31] <FatPhil> So DuPont can pay for the new laws?
[15:45:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, that's not a change. that was the assumption from the beginning. see what i mean about you not listening?
[15:45:50] <FatPhil> Vuluntarily, of course.
[15:46:11] <FatPhil> When you proposed a system it was a system incompatible with what we have now.
[15:46:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> what in all that i've said leads you to believe laws would be for sale?
[15:46:26] <FatPhil> The system we have now raises taxes by fiat.
[15:46:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> taxes are not laws
[15:46:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> they're funding
[15:46:46] <FatPhil> The last 2 pages of what you've said.
[15:46:49] <requerdanos> "taxation is theft at gunpoint"
[15:47:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> you've lost your damned mind. i never once said laws should be for sale. i said funding should be collected voluntarily for laws that need funding.
[15:47:29] <FatPhil> You did - up there ^^^
[15:47:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> bullshit
[15:47:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> quote it
[15:48:06] <FatPhil> 'whoever wants to'
[15:48:14] <FatPhil> 3 minutes ago
[15:48:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> who pays for the legislature was the question
[15:48:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> salaries
[15:48:27] <requerdanos> uh, that was in response to who funds the legislature, not quite the same
[15:48:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> i think our legislators would make a lot less, given how popular they're not
[15:49:19] <c0lo> TMB, really, an journal entry is much better. You sketch your ideas, we comment, you reedit and clarify. Here's just "tears in the rain".
[15:49:20] <requerdanos> There could be corrupt legislators who could offer laws for sale, I suppose
[15:49:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> requerdanos, we have that now.
[15:50:09] <FatPhil> and you want to inherit that, apparently.
[15:50:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's too fantastic to believe we'd ever fully get rid of that and it's outside the scope of funding discussions.
[15:50:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh i'd love to get rid of it. i just don't think it's possible without bringing back drawing and quartering
[15:51:04] <FatPhil> because you just loooove the wild west - we know
[15:51:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, because people who seek office generally do it because they're corrupt douchebags
[15:51:50] <requerdanos> rather than literal public servants
[15:52:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, that'd be funny if it weren't so tragic
[15:52:37] <c0lo> Legislation, managemnet of commons and society (aka govt), enforcement and arbitration are all related - can't discuss one without the other. Funding is needed for all of them.
[15:53:01] <FatPhil> and they need to cooperate
[15:53:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup. and there's ways to handle that.
[15:53:18] <c0lo> Until now, it's taxes and redistribution and yyou say you don't want that.
[15:53:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> i don't want involuntary taxes. important distinction.
[15:53:59] <c0lo> I'm yet to hear a coherent solution that keep all 4 and are funded by something else than taxes.
[15:54:09] <FatPhil> Look, you idiot, the *definition* of taxation is that it's involuntary.
[15:54:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> see above re: involuntary
[15:54:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, why?
[15:54:21] <FatPhil> Because language
[15:54:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> not if you add the word "voluntary" as an adjective. because, language.
[15:54:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> scuse me, adverb
[15:55:00] <requerdanos> here they voted specifically for a local sales tax. I mean, I didn't, but
[15:55:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, first was right. i need more coffee.
[15:55:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> requerdanos, yep, and those who voted against it are stuck paying it whether they like it or not. tyranny of the majority.
[15:55:44] <FatPhil> sticking contradictory adjectives before a noun does not a meaningful concept make.
[15:56:11] <c0lo> FayPhil - I disagree. Personally, I'm happy to pay reasonable taxes and benefit from the advantages of pooling resources without fucking care about the complexities of delivering those advantages. Taxes aren't involuntary for me.
[15:56:28] <requerdanos> Under the articles of confederation, the system basically was that the Federal gov't needed money for stuff and the states either raised it and paid it, or didn't.
[15:56:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, semantics is your argument now? i've laid out a system and said exactly how it could work. you have refuted nothing except where you misunderstood what i said in the first place.
[15:56:40] <requerdanos> in theory, anyway. In practice it was just "didn't"
[15:56:48] <FatPhil> c0lo: you agree to the social contract
[15:57:19] <requerdanos> So perhaps the tax collection needs to be done by the same people as the market correction folks, ones who don't like it but recognize it needs to be done
[15:57:22] <c0lo> Yeap. It let's me focus on what I do best.
[15:57:39] <c0lo> s/let\'s/lets/
[15:57:50] <FatPhil> you have worked out that without it you end up with unstable or non-working systems like buzz's, and therefore accept it as something that is a necessity for stability.
[15:58:04] <c0lo> Yeap.
[15:58:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, if you dig that for laziness sake, more power to you. not everyone wants to pay for things the vehemently oppose though.
[15:58:24] <FatPhil> you can *not* opt out.
[15:58:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, you going to show how it's non-working or just keep saying it is louder and louder?
[15:58:48] <requerdanos> Actually, if you opt out, that makes you smart. The president has so decreed.
[15:58:50] <c0lo> I accept there'll be suboptimality involved.
[15:58:56] <FatPhil> You've not persuaded me that DuPont can't buy laws yet.
[15:59:07] <FatPhil> If DuPont can buy laws, then you can't fish.
[15:59:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> you haven't said how they could, any more than they already do
[15:59:14] <c0lo> I *know* there'll be some corruption - it's inevitable.
[15:59:21] <FatPhil> whattaboutism!
[15:59:32] <c0lo> I'll start to object when corruption is too high.
[15:59:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, i have no idea what i'm supposed to be arguing against
[15:59:46] <requerdanos> yeah? well what about phil saying whataboutism?
[15:59:49] <c0lo> Otherwise, I'm ... 'lazy'.
[15:59:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> you say they could buy laws when i never mentioned being able to buy laws and absolutely said you could not
[16:00:15] <FatPhil> requerdanos: "any more than they already do" is pure textbook whattaboutism
[16:00:16] <c0lo> I prefer to build things
[16:00:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, i can respect lazy
[16:00:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, no, it's just the truth. politicians are corrupt. they sell laws when they think they can get away with it.
[16:00:48] <requerdanos> okay, then we'll change that part. From henceforth it will be illegal to sell laws.
[16:00:52] <FatPhil> irrelevant
[16:00:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> that has nothing to do with how laws are funded
[16:00:56] <requerdanos> lol
[16:01:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, at this point i'm pretty sure you're just fucking with me. you can't possibly be that incompetent between the ears.
[16:01:32] <FatPhil> one of the major features of whattaboutism is that it redicts to a truth. You can't defend the redirection by saying "but it's the truth".
[16:01:58] <FatPhil> This is why I call your ability to perform simple logic into question - you are literally terrible at it.
[16:02:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, here's simple logic: funding the laws has nothing to do with what the laws are
[16:02:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> funding legislators does but that's already illegal
[16:03:02] <c0lo> (except for "funding" as in "wages")
[16:03:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, right
[16:03:28] <requerdanos> "campaign contributions" via this or that "Super PAC"
[16:03:50] <c0lo> That's a USian fuckup.
[16:04:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> and if need be we can make sure they at least make minimum wage by adding "administrative overhead" as a line item in any fund's budget.
[16:04:10] <c0lo> (not limited to them, but perfected by them)
[16:04:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> naw, the russians are way, way better at it
[16:04:31] <requerdanos> Paid For By The Committee To Ensure Clean Rivers, a wholly owned subsidiary of DuPont
[16:05:27] <c0lo> Russians don't make an art from it. They do it behind close doors, gentlemen agreement.
[16:05:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> personally, i like my bringing back drawing and quartering for selling laws idea
[16:06:25] <c0lo> s/art/public interpretative art/
[16:06:25] <SedBot> <c0lo> Russians don't make an public interpretative art from it. They do it behind close doors, gentlemen agreement.
[16:06:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> but funding laws and choosing laws are not even sort of the same thing and do not belong in the same discussion.
[16:06:52] <c0lo> Unfortunately they do.
[16:06:57] <c0lo> Wages.
[16:07:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> you don't get to pay $senator's wages, you get to pay $congress's wages
[16:07:39] <c0lo> (wages for lawmakers, judges, policemen, administrators)
[16:08:14] <c0lo> As functions, TMB, I care not $senator_X.
[16:08:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> wages for cops, judges, etc... are a local matter but the same would work for them.
[16:08:31] <FatPhil> If I think the legislature is doing a shitty job, biased towards bigoil, bigpharma, and bigagri, should I be paying more or less to fund the legislature?
[16:08:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, up to you. i personally don't think they should make anything at all.
[16:09:05] <requerdanos> I am not sure that's a valid question. It assumes the legislators' wages determine their bias, which is nonsense
[16:09:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> or at the most should make no more than the median wage.
[16:09:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup, their wages are a tiny, tiny portion of their income
[16:09:56] <FatPhil> so if all the little guys who think they're being shat on no longer funds the legislature, so it can't even operate properly, what happens then?
[16:10:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> none of the insanely rich democrats made their money from their federal salaries.
[16:10:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, then people do it because it needs doing. if you're in it for the money i don't really want you there anyway.
[16:11:01] <c0lo> I don't think that all laws can be "local", therefore one will need to support a mechanism for making "country-wide" laws.
[16:11:25] <FatPhil> Who are these mythical "people"? You're magicking things up out of nowhere.
[16:11:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, see above. here in the states cops, judges, and administrative stuff are paid for locally for the most part.
[16:12:08] <c0lo> And the country-wide EPA+rules?
[16:12:53] <c0lo> Because Missipeepee by dupont.
[16:13:05] <FatPhil> that can be mostly solved by harmonisation like we do in the EU, but that doesn't always work.
[16:14:14] <c0lo> Yes, but EU has a big bureucratic mechanism for harmonisation. And I'm not associating anything negative (or positive) to bureacracy here
[16:14:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, i'd do it for free. why would you think nobody would?
[16:14:23] <c0lo> (not *here*)
[16:14:49] <c0lo> You are naive, TMB.
[16:14:53] <FatPhil> I'm sure DuPont could find hundreds of people who would do it for free.
[16:14:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, federal stuff gets paid for by federal taxes now, state stuff by state taxes. we're very much not a single nation.
[16:14:57] <requerdanos> generally, volunteer work must be funded somewhere. The volunteer has to be able to afford to do the work.
[16:15:06] <c0lo> That's not an amateur job.
[16:15:16] <c0lo> You can'rt do it for a hobby.
[16:15:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, you already know their wages are only a tiny portion of their income.
[16:15:34] <c0lo> Heck, you do *not want* it done as a hobby.
[16:15:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> actually, i'd prefer it were.
[16:15:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> i do not want it done by lawyers.
[16:16:22] <c0lo> Actually, I'd prefer they are paid highly but have not additional income.
[16:16:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, i'd be fine with that as well.
[16:16:56] <requerdanos> how are we gonna raise the revenue to pay them, much less pay them highly?
[16:16:57] <FatPhil> given that the only thing different from your system and the status quo is the funding, why are you explaining your system in terms of current funding? It seems like your system is just "what we've got, but nobody has to pay for it, and magically it'll still work"
[16:16:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> let their wages be determined by how happy the populace is with them though.
[16:17:27] <requerdanos> yeah, i gave at the office
[16:17:33] <c0lo> Because I want them to want to become better of what they do as the only way to increase their income.
[16:17:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, you're the only one saying magic is necessary. i already told you how to generate funding and gave examples
[16:18:11] <c0lo> Technocracy+meritocracy if that makes sense.
[16:18:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, i very much like that line of thinking
[16:19:06] <FatPhil> you told me a mechanism for generating funding, you didn't prove that it would actually generate funding. You're in the '???' part of the plan still.
[16:19:41] <c0lo> (and I don't put the "happiness of the population" as the KPI. Sometimes, there are bitter-pills that need swallowing)
[16:19:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, no, the plan is laid out. you can't prove or disprove it will work without trying it though. it's not math or physics.
[16:19:52] <requerdanos> perhaps you should put your ideas into practice and demonstrate the fundraising mechanisms.
[16:20:11] <FatPhil> You're sounding very much like the purple-haried socialists!
[16:20:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, then the legislators should face some bitterness too
[16:20:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, tell me how to prove any taxation system will work, without actually implementing it.
[16:20:46] <requerdanos> "We should punish legislators for doing the right thing"
[16:20:48] <FatPhil> models
[16:20:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> bullshit
[16:20:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> models contain assumptions
[16:21:02] <c0lo> TMB - you know how is that you like called? Public servants. Bureaucracy.
[16:21:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> assumptions are not science
[16:21:07] <FatPhil> You contain assumptions too
[16:21:18] <FatPhil> You are assuming it will work, no?
[16:21:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, but i'd damned well like to try it
[16:21:59] <c0lo> Heh. Try Finland, TMB.
[16:22:10] <c0lo> Those damn'd socialists.
[16:22:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> which is just weird for former vikings.
[16:22:52] <c0lo> Not fully there, but pretty close.
[16:23:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> going to suck all of the ass for them when petroleum stops being how the world turns.
[16:23:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> unless they invest well at least.
[16:25:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> aight, nap time. doing afternoon church work today instead of morning.
[16:25:20] <requerdanos> peace.
[16:27:30] <FatPhil> wow, deep deep ignorance of other countries.
[16:27:39] <FatPhil> TIL Norway = Sweden = Finland
[16:32:06] <c0lo> Finland doesn't derive it's wealth from oil. Think Nokia (and Linux).
[16:32:19] <FatPhil> And trees
[16:33:04] <c0lo> (of course. Can;t have saunas in concrete boxes)
[16:35:16] <FatPhil> and paper. including toilet paper: https://preview.redd.it
[16:36:57] <c0lo> (TMB mince all over the floor tonight. No worries, he's tough enough. Bet he'll be back to socialism is theft in no time)
[16:37:33] <c0lo> Gotta love that paper.
[16:39:09] <FatPhil> Nokia did more than just that: http://fatphil.org and don't forget the Gummitehdas
[16:40:08] <c0lo> Lucky them for missing the all the fun https://www.glitterbombyourenemies.com.au
[16:41:01] <c0lo> Yes, I know Nokia started long before mobile comms.
[16:41:21] <FatPhil> I of course have a photo taken on my motorola potato when I was embedded in their the Kuopio office: http://fatphil.org
[16:42:44] <FatPhil> The rubber and telco divisions had a quite acrimonious split. We've had both companies as clients, and they've both violated agreements about how they would use the shared name.
[16:43:44] <FatPhil> Rather funny when "Nokian Tyres" wants their publicity materials produced in US English. :-D
[16:45:52] <c0lo> Driven to exhaustion, eh?
[16:49:02] <FatPhil> $ curl -s https://www.nokiantyres.com | grep -o 't[iy]res' | sort | uniq -c
[16:49:02] <FatPhil> 97 tires
[16:49:02] <FatPhil> 602 tyres
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[16:53:49] * c0lo gotta get some sleep. TGIF
[16:54:27] <FatPhil> it is for some lucky buggers
[16:54:41] <FatPhil> knock yourself out!
[17:13:38] <Runaway1956_> https://babylonbee.com
[17:13:39] <systemd> ^ 03Immediately After Moving To Texas, Elon Musk Announces Tesla AR-15
[17:31:55] <FatPhil> !boner Runaway1956_
[17:32:00] <FatPhil> bots--
[17:32:00] <Bender> karma - bots: -39
[17:37:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Security Firm FireEye Says It Was Breached by Nation-State Hackers - https://sylnt.us - steal-from-the-best
[17:48:28] <chromas> =boner FatPhil
[17:48:28] <systemd> FatPhil I've told you 3 times, put your boner away
[17:48:49] <chromas> =socialist tmb
[17:48:49] <systemd> tmb, you're a socialist!
[18:06:42] <carny> this is fine and legal and nothing to worry about right? https://twitter.com
[18:06:43] <systemd> ^ 03Twitter ( https://mobile.twitter.com )
[18:14:04] <Runaway1956_> Stupid ass Cynthia Johnson thinks everyone else is playing?
[18:14:21] <Runaway1956_> I'll "walk lightly" when I'm dead and gone, LOL
[18:17:11] * Runaway1956_ notes FatPhil interest in his boner
[19:12:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> #socialist chromas
[19:12:51] <MrPlow> chromas, you're a socialist!
[19:13:04] * TheMightyBuzzard yawns
[19:13:04] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into TheMightyBuzzard's gaping mouth
[19:45:30] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Four in Prison for Mobile Malware Conspiracy - https://sylnt.us - When-crime-is-cheaper-than-going-straight
[20:26:53] -!- RunawayXXXX [RunawayXXXX!~80c7abb4@128.199.mpx.los] has joined #soylent
[20:27:51] RunawayXXXX is now known as SoyGuest51555
[20:28:21] SoyGuest51555 is now known as Runaway1957
[20:51:20] <bacteria> some very useful microbes are social yeast
[21:36:03] <carny> https://www.rt.com
[21:36:06] <systemd> ^ 03‘CIVIL WAR’? Democrats outraged at ONE-THIRD of US states challenging Biden election in Supreme Court
[21:36:18] <carny> hypocrisy knows no bounds
[21:36:34] <carny> but it's more than one third now
[21:53:27] <Runaway1957> carny sourcing RT? Runaway Russian Collaboration!
[21:56:15] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - U.S. Physicists Rally Around Ambitious Plan to Build Fusion Power Plant - https://sylnt.us - harnessing-the-power-of-the-sun
[21:58:10] <carny> it's a sad point in history when a russian owned news outlet provides news with less censorship than almost every american news outlet
[21:58:52] <carny> fortunately it's easy to filter out their pro-putin content and get to the good stuff
[21:59:38] <carny> al jazeera is a similar useful source if you know how to filter out the pro-muslim propaganda
[22:00:19] <carny> mother jones used to be a top source for keeping an eye on global elites before it was subverted
[22:21:19] <FatPhil> mother jones seemed to be a pretty sane 'liberal' periodical, but I think I noticed something changing over the last few years. But everything did. They were just part of the tectonic drift.
[22:21:24] <bacteria> do you people think biden will be inaugurated? what's the feeling here?
[22:21:47] <FatPhil> betcha $100 he will!
[22:22:11] <FatPhil> man, this could be a way of going $200 down...
[22:29:56] * FatPhil cheers for Trump - never give up!!!! Ain't that right, c0lo?
[22:34:16] <carny> even if scotus is intimidated into abdicating their duties i don't see how there can possibly be a peaceful transition of power at this point
[22:35:10] <carny> even the fake news polls are admitting that something like 60% or more of the entire country believe the election as 'not fair' and that goes up above 90% when asking republicans
[22:36:52] <carny> and if we're starting to see discussion of hunter biden and his laptop that indicates that the 25th ammendment removal of biden is waiting for him
[22:37:13] <FatPhil> bacteria: Oh, to keep the US-politics-focused chitchat off this channel, we have a separate one #US_Election - it's open to all (and logged), feel free to join there.
[22:37:23] <carny> so we'll be looking at a third of the country led by president trump and a third led by president harris
[22:38:26] <carny> FatPhil: what's the point of giving the disinformation campaign a second home?
[22:38:32] <FatPhil> "even the fake news polls are admitting that something like 60% or more of the entire country believe the election as 'not fair'" - [citation needed]
[22:38:40] <FatPhil> Yeah - what are you doing on both channels?
[22:38:57] <carny> #US_Election?
[22:39:28] <carny> i gave up on that 3 days ago
[22:39:49] <FatPhil> yeah - you're spreading misinformation here, where you should be attempting to spread it there.
[22:39:54] <carny> none of the leftists there are interested in facts or intelligent analysis
[22:39:56] <FatPhil> Did we give you too hard a time?
[22:40:09] <carny> misinformation eh?
[22:40:14] <carny> [citation needed]
[22:40:26] <FatPhil> None of the mathematicians were able to keep their shit together when you provided links to "evidence"
[22:41:42] <FatPhil> *Everything* "statistical" that you've posted has been completely hilariously wrong nonsense.
[22:41:53] <FatPhil> But take this to #US_Election where it belongs.
[22:42:08] <carny> show me where i claimed a single link was indisputably correct
[22:42:33] <carny> i believe if you read the logs you'll find me asking for your analysis not dictating it
[22:42:52] <carny> Just 22 percent of Americans believe this year's presidential election will be "free and fair," according to a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll — a disturbing loss of confidence in the democratic process that could foreshadow a catastrophic post-election period with millions of partisans refusing to accept the...
[22:43:04] <carny> https://news.yahoo.com
[22:43:14] <systemd> ^ 03New Yahoo News/YouGov poll: Only 22% of Americans think the 2020 presidential election will be 'free and fair'
[22:43:34] <FatPhil> yahoo doesn't serve pages here
[22:43:53] <carny> that's why i pasted the excerpt
[22:43:56] <FatPhil> Is that because of the coup that Trump and his trumpaloons are trying to pull?
[22:44:07] <FatPhil> But take this to #US_Election where it belongs.
[23:02:40] <chromas> https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net
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[23:08:43] <bacteria> FatPhil: gotcha, thanks :)
[23:11:16] <Runaway1956_> https://babylonbee.com
[23:11:17] <systemd> ^ 03Mysterious Tower Of Missing Trump Votes Appears In Utah Desert
[23:12:34] <bacteria> https://www.theguardian.com
[23:12:35] <systemd> ^ 03A monolith to mark nothing in particular
[23:13:12] <bacteria> that's the real story of the year
[23:14:12] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[23:15:48] <Runaway1956_> https://babylonbee.com
[23:15:48] <systemd> ^ 03Chuck Norris Comes Out Of Closet As Even More Of A Man
[23:16:51] <Runaway1956_> Chuck Norris is so manly, my Chuck Norris Underoos wash themselves.
[23:25:19] <Runaway1957> Sorry, Runaway1956, Chuck Norris does not swing both ways.
[23:43:25] <Runaway1956_> He'll swing you both ways Ari. With something solid at each end of the arc.
[23:55:54] <AzumaHazuki> just saying? this slavish veneration of manly-man archetypes is super homoerotic. not using that as an insult. just saying it's really, really gay.