#soylent | Logs for 2020-06-30

« return
[00:09:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, church is mowed
[00:09:36] <chromas> Is it edged?
[00:09:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> with the riding mower that TR's boy child decided would look better upside down at the bottom of a 12 foot ditch yesterday.
[00:09:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> fuck no. i ain't that classy.
[00:10:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> well i am but not when i have to mow two yards.
[00:10:11] <chromas> Did you make the kid help flip it back?
[00:10:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> naw, we wanted it to get done
[00:10:36] <chromas> At least make him try for a minute
[00:11:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> made him stand at the top of the ditch and shout directions to his dad who was pulling it out with his bigass 1 ton dualie
[00:11:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> neighbor came over and helped so he could have a good laugh
[00:12:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'like a 75 degree slope on that ditch. no way it was coming out ever again without something towing it.
[00:13:21] <chromas> Can't flip it and ride it up at an angle?
[00:13:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> shit no. i can barely climb that slope
[00:14:35] <chromas> You just have to build up some speed. Maximum Hare
[00:15:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> amazingly, aside from a slightly bent hood and a little oil in the cylinder that needed burnt off, damned thing is perfectly fine.
[00:15:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> craftsman++
[00:15:07] <Bender> karma - craftsman: 1
[00:16:40] * TheMightyBuzzard is pretty fucking impressed with the little thing's toughness
[00:18:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com
[00:18:24] <systemd> ^ 03Allegheny Co. Health Officials: Spike In New Coronavirus Cases Linked To Bars, Not Protests
[00:18:25] <exec> └─ 13Allegheny Co. Health Officials: Spike In New Coronavirus Cases Linked To Bars, Not Protests – CBS Pittsburgh
[00:18:40] <chromas> haha
[00:19:10] <chromas> Bubububut the protestors have masks on!
[00:19:34] <chromas> So I guess Social Distancing™ dindu nuffin as long as you've got a spittle guard
[00:19:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> ha: that's a little funny. haha: that's funny. hahaha: <sarcasm>that's funny</sarcasm>. hahahaha: stayin alive
[00:20:39] <chromas> oh noes, I've got hypohahatia. Must be covid
[00:20:50] <RandomFactor> That's gonna leave a mark https://www.zerohedge.com
[00:20:51] <systemd> ^ 0383 Tons Of Fake Gold Bars: Gold Market Rocked By Massive China Counterfeiting Scandal
[00:20:53] <exec> └─ 1383 Tons Of Fake Gold Bars: Gold Market Rocked By Massive China Counterfeiting Scandal | Zero Hedge
[00:20:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt stayin alive
[00:20:54] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com -- Bee Gees - Stayin&#39; Alive (Official Music Video)
[00:21:22] * TheMightyBuzzard chuckles
[00:21:47] <chromas> So the Chinesium is literal now?
[00:22:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> should have checked to see if the bars made a chick sound when tapped with a metal rod
[00:22:52] * TheMightyBuzzard is a lousy racist, can't even spell chink
[00:23:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> on the other hand, i'm apparently an awesome misogynist
[00:24:24] <chromas> It's pretty much true. If you like women then you hate them
[00:26:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> so i got a friend who's been on linux for over a decade now and just got pissed off at his cell service, blamed it on android, and bought an iphone.
[00:26:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> calls me up bitching and telling me he can't get it to sync
[00:27:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> he didn't appreciate my "keep flushing" advice
[00:27:23] <RandomFactor> TheMightyBuzzard++
[00:27:23] <Bender> karma - themightybuzzard: 380
[00:39:05] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[00:39:15] -!- driveby [driveby!~amnesia@31.220.p.nnn] has joined #soylent
[00:53:01] -!- driveby has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[01:37:55] -!- boru` [boru`!~boru@klmp-64-618-658-33.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #soylent
[01:37:58] -!- boru has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by boru`!~boru@klmp-64-618-658-33.dynamic.mnet-online.de))]
[01:38:00] boru` is now known as boru
[01:44:50] <RandomFactor> https://www.eurekalert.org
[01:44:51] <systemd> ^ 03Nanotechnology applied to medicine: The first liquid retina prosthesis
[01:44:51] <exec> └─ 13Nanotechnology applied to medicine: The first liquid retina prosthesis | EurekAlert! Science News
[01:46:42] <RandomFactor> =submit https://www.eurekalert.org
[01:46:44] <exec> └─ 13Nanotechnology applied to medicine: The first liquid retina prosthesis | EurekAlert! Science News
[01:46:47] <systemd> Submitting "Nanotechnology applied to medicine: The first liquid retina prosthesis"...
[01:47:09] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Nanotechnology Applied to Medicine: the First Liquid Retina Prosthesis" (60 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[01:49:33] <RandomFactor> =submit "Misidentified?" https://threatpost.com
[01:49:34] <exec> └─ 13AWS Facial Recognition Platform Misidentified Over 100 Politicians As Criminals | Threatpost
[01:49:34] <systemd> Submitting "AWS Facial Recognition Platform Misidentified Over 100 Politicians As Criminals"...
[01:49:48] <AzumaHazuki> sounds like it's working to me :D
[01:49:56] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03AWS Facial Recognition Platform Misidentified Over 100 Politicians as Criminals" (41 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[01:50:02] <RandomFactor> AzumaHazuki++
[01:50:02] <Bender> karma - azumahazuki: 32
[02:08:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - FCC Helps Charter Avoid Broadband Competition - https://sylnt.us - business-as-usual
[03:16:58] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Can You Please Help SoylentNews? Yowza! Thank-you!! [Updates: 3] - https://sylnt.us - we've-been-here-for-you;-will-you-be-here-for-us?
[03:56:28] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Fall of Quibi: How Did a Starry $1.75bn Netflix Rival Crash So Fast? - https://sylnt.us - Quibi-Quibbles
[04:01:23] <Bytram> http://feedproxy.google.com
[04:01:24] <systemd> ^ 03Ripple20: Flaws in Treck TCP/IP Stack Expose Millions of IoT Devices to Attacks ( https://www.securityweek.com )
[04:01:24] <exec> └─ 13Ripple20: Flaws in Treck TCP/IP Stack Expose Millions of IoT Devices to Attacks | SecurityWeek.Com
[04:53:56] <FatPhil> weather
[04:54:03] <FatPhil> #weather
[04:54:04] <MrPlow> Pärnu mnt 67a, 10131 Tallinn, Estonia - Today: "Rain throughout the day." 64/56F, Humidity: 91%, Precip: 100%, Wind ~11mph. Wed: "Light rain in the morning and afternoon." 65/57F, Humidity: 87%, Precip: 95%, Wind ~15mph. Thu: "Light rain in the afternoon and evening." 68/55F, Humidity: 82%, Precip: 88%, Wind ~10mph.
[05:52:13] -!- aqu4bot has quit [Read error: No route to host]
[05:52:13] -!- Subsentient has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[05:53:06] -!- aqu4bot [aqu4bot!~aqu4bot@48-984-64-049.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #soylent
[05:53:13] -!- Subsentient [Subsentient!~WhiteRat@48-984-64-049.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #soylent
[05:56:13] -!- AzumaHazuki has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[06:06:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Benefits of Exercise Could be Passed Through Breast Milk, Says New Study - https://sylnt.us - tits-4-tots
[06:57:12] <FatPhil> Oh, christ, our roof is leaking :(
[07:04:11] <inz> That be no fun
[07:04:37] <chromas> at least it's not
[07:04:38] <chromas> =bloodhound gang roof is on fire
[07:04:41] <chromas> =yt bloodhound gang roof is on fire
[07:04:42] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Bloodhound gang- The roof is on fire (HQ sound) (04:57)
[07:06:53] <FatPhil> above the least accessible (internally) bit of the flat - above our sauna. but that's a bit of a blessing as it can run out into the shower drain.
[07:09:57] <inz> Sounds like you'll need to sauna a lot until the roof is fixed.
[07:10:16] <FatPhil> right, let's see what 15 mins of drips looks like in terms of fractions of a bucket...
[07:10:28] <FatPhil> I don't want to be dripped on from above though
[07:10:38] <FatPhil> I only like the water when it's invisible.
[07:11:40] <inz> Install a tarp to the ceiling that redirects all the water onto the stones
[07:13:02] <FatPhil> and the good news is ... there was almost no water in the bucket
[07:13:35] <FatPhil> but the bad news is ... that's because teh squishy fibreglass insulation wasn't strong enough to support it, so it tipped over.
[07:17:20] <FatPhil> One of the things I hate about Estonia (and i've seen it in Finland too) is that foam, initially designed for insulation purposes, is used as a structural building material - and worse, as a sealant.
[08:08:21] <FatPhil> isn't it about time for a lovely Aristarchus submission?
[08:08:26] <FatPhil> =submit http://environmentalprogress.org
[08:08:27] <exec> └─ 13On Behalf Of Environmentalists, I Apologize For The Climate Scare — Environmental Progress
[08:08:28] <systemd> Submitting "On Behalf Of Environmentalists, I Apologize For The Climate Scare"...
[08:08:49] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03On Behalf of Environmentalists, I Apologize for the Climate Scare" (59 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[08:12:35] <chromas> I don't see any mention of the alt right in the title
[08:15:43] <boru> I'm sure aristarchus will make up for it in the comments.
[08:15:46] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - AWS Facial Recognition Platform Misidentified Over 100 Politicians as Criminals - https://sylnt.us - misidentified?
[08:19:13] <FatPhil> Alt-right is such a simplistic concept for shallow thinkers. I'm more alt-clockwise.
[08:25:01] <inz> Bah, meta-l should be enough for everyone
[09:21:30] <inz> (yeah yeah, ADM-3A did not have meta key, I'm a total noob)
[10:14:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[10:14:41] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5289
[10:14:50] <Bytram> coffee++
[10:14:50] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5290
[10:14:55] <Bytram> =gnu TheMightyBuzzard
[10:14:56] * systemd tragically allocates a matrix of cash for TheMightyBuzzard
[10:15:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> =getfacl Bytram
[10:15:17] * systemd genuinely pipes a shot of signed chars into Bytram
[10:27:26] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - India Bans TikTok, WeChat, and Other Chinese-Owned Apps - https://sylnt.us - this-does-not-look-good
[11:27:23] -!- SoyCow0889 [SoyCow0889!~9f99d30a@159.153.yqr.yr] has joined #soylent
[11:28:23] <SoyCow0889> Say what? https://www.abc.net.au
[11:28:24] <systemd> ^ 03Donald Trump shares then deletes video of supporter shouting 'white power' - ABC News
[11:28:25] <exec> └─ 13Donald Trump shares then deletes video of supporter shouting 'white power' - ABC News
[11:30:46] <FatPhil> saying "white power" by the sound of it.
[11:33:23] <boru> I really don't understand how twitter has become news. It's so sensational. If they really want to take these websites as some sort of serious public forum, then they should be subject to utility laws rather than private corporations. They can't have it every way.
[11:33:37] <boru> It really feels like a modern day Operation Mockingbird.
[11:34:28] <boru> I really wonder what historians will think when they look back on these era. What will the zeitgeist be.
[11:34:46] <boru> The few decades when the western world seemed to have lost its mind.
[11:34:57] <Bytram> Unfortunately, at one point it was announced that Trump's posts on Twitter were official communications (or words to that effect)
[11:35:23] <boru> And what sort of world it lead to that our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren will grow up in.
[11:36:35] <boru> It was announced -- who has the authority to do that. One person's opinions on a privately owned website. It's just idiots screaming into the void.
[11:37:20] <boru> I feel we are truly in societal decline. What we are heading towards is some sort of dystopian hell.
[11:38:02] <Bytram> fwiw, the politicians of, say, the 1880's were not about slinging mud and making baseless accusations. They just lacked a medium as wide-ranging (as in area) and immediacy as is provided by Twitter, Facebook, Twitch, Instagram, etc.
[11:38:07] <boru> Okay, I too, and finished screaming into the void.
[11:38:13] <boru> s/and/am
[11:38:32] <Bytram> it was announced by the US press secretary at the time
[11:38:54] <chromas> How many secretaries ago was that?
[11:39:44] <Bytram> boru: Don't get me wrong, I think it's a shame and share your perspective that the future's hindsight will not look favorably on this time.
[11:40:16] * Bytram lost count
[11:41:12] <Bytram> =g US press secretary Scott
[11:41:13] <systemd> https://en.wikipedia.org - Scott McClellan - Wikipedia
[11:41:47] <FatPhil> =g fourth turning
[11:41:48] <systemd> https://en.wikipedia.org - Strauss–Howe generational theory - Wikipedia
[11:41:58] <FatPhil> boru: your decline ^
[11:42:36] <boru> Yes, I'm familiar with it, but other the Greek moniker.
[11:42:44] <boru> Under, even.
[11:42:51] * boru kldload english.ko
[11:43:11] <FatPhil> Bytram: "politicians of, say, the 1880's were not about slinging mud" couldn't be much further from the truth.
[11:43:32] <FatPhil> =g ian hislop fake news bbc
[11:43:33] <systemd> https://www.bbc.co.uk - BBC Four - Ian Hislop's Fake News: A True History
[11:43:33] <Bytram> ugh! Typo!
[11:43:46] <FatPhil> "not above"?
[11:43:51] <Bytram> fwiw, the politicians of, say, the 1880's were not *above* slinging mud and making baseless accusations. They just lacked a medium as wide-ranging (as in area) and immediacy as is provided by Twitter, Facebook, Twitch, Instagram, etc.
[11:44:00] <Bytram> yes!
[11:45:15] <Bytram> to quote talking heads "Same as it ever was", but faster and with more reach/extent
[11:52:14] <FatPhil> Thunderf00t's hit a new record in information density. His 20+ minute video could be condensed to 2 words "there's gravity". Maybe padded out with the Boltzmann curve of energy distributions which would take another 10 words to explain.
[11:53:37] <chromas> FatPhil: s/den/spar/
[11:53:39] <exec> <chromas> <FatPhil> Thunderf00t's hit a new record in information sparsity. His 20+ minute video could be condensed to 2 words "there's gravity". Maybe padded out with the Boltzmann curve of energy distributions which would take another 10 words to explain.
[11:54:59] <Bytram> boru: https://edition.cnn.com :
[11:55:00] <exec> └─ 13White House: Trump's tweets are 'official statements' - CNNPolitics
[11:55:02] <systemd> ^ 03White House: Trump's tweets are 'official statements'
[11:55:07] <Bytram> White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Tuesday President Donald Trump's tweets are indeed official statements.
[11:55:08] <Bytram> "The President is the President of the United States, so they're considered official statements by the President of the United States," Spicer said, when asked during his daily briefing how they should be characterized. Spicer did not indicate whether that included both of the President's Twitter handles: @realDonaldTrump and @POTUS.
[11:55:40] <Bytram> break time -- back later
[12:25:34] -!- RandomFactor has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[12:25:52] -!- RandomFactor [RandomFactor!~IceChat9@629-71-065-58.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #soylent
[12:26:59] <GrandFireWizard> is Trump actually that stupid or insane?
[12:34:13] <AndyTheAbsurd> He is actually that stupid AND that insane.
[12:38:05] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - New Executive Order Fights Credential Inflation in the Federal Workforce - https://sylnt.us - we-don't-need-no-stinkin'-degree
[12:55:40] <GrandFireWizard> ....
[12:55:44] <GrandFireWizard> and the leader of America..
[12:57:18] -!- SoyGuest271828 [SoyGuest271828!~4039920c@64.57.quj.nm] has joined #soylent
[12:57:31] <SoyGuest271828> =asub https://mspoweruser.com
[12:57:33] <systemd> Submitting "Embarrassingly Apple's two-year old ARM chip benchmarks faster than Microsoft's Surface Pro X - MSPoweruser"...
[12:57:33] <exec> └─ 13Embarrassingly Apple's two-year old ARM chip benchmarks faster than Microsoft's Surface Pro X - MSPoweruser
[12:57:54] <systemd> ✓* Sub-ccess! "08Embarrassingly Apple's Two-year Old ARM Chip Benchmarks Faster Than Microsoft's Surface Pro X - MSPo" (5 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[12:58:06] <Teckla> coffee++
[12:58:06] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5291
[13:00:59] -!- SoyGuest271828 has quit [Client Quit]
[13:18:27] -!- animal [animal!~animal@x10vz1.static.otenet.gr] has joined #soylent
[13:18:50] <animal> and hi again
[13:31:40] <FatPhil> =goop animal
[13:31:40] * systemd dianetically flings a hammerfs volume of buck feta at animal
[13:33:28] <GrandFireWizard> =gday animal
[13:33:28] * systemd amazingly extracts a tube of psilent consonants from animal
[13:34:24] <animal> thanks :)
[13:39:18] -!- animal has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[13:42:40] -!- tedious [tedious!tedious@yjhlnnjwbexv.mooo.com] has joined #soylent
[14:47:47] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Employers Can't Afford to Ax Mature Workers, Say Researchers - https://sylnt.us - good-news-for-graybeards
[15:37:31] -!- SoyCow0889 has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[16:28:06] <FatPhil> You can't make a Bayesian omelette without breaking prior eggs, but fortunately you end up with stronger posterior eggs.
[16:30:40] <FatPhil> No cheating - no trying out first - what do you think the answer should be:
[16:30:45] <FatPhil> Chose your language...
[16:31:10] <FatPhil> In that language evaluate the exponential calculation -2^2
[16:56:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Zuckerberg Once Wanted to Sanction Trump. Then Facebook Wrote Rules that Accommodated Him. - https://sylnt.us
[17:19:26] -!- carny has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[17:54:52] <Bytram> FatPhil: I see what you did there! Which takes precedence? My answer: -4
[17:56:02] <FatPhil> do you have access to an MS Excel - can you try it there?
[17:56:15] <Ingar> 5, for large values of -2
[17:56:30] <Bytram> OLD version
[17:56:58] <Ingar> I still have a pentium with the bug
[17:57:15] <FatPhil> which one, the f00f or the fdiv?
[17:57:23] <Bytram> Volkswagon Bug?
[17:57:36] <Ingar> FatPhil: both, if I'm not mistaken
[17:57:45] <Ingar> f00f definetly, I remember that from the bootmsg
[17:57:46] <FatPhil> do they cancel each other out?
[17:57:59] <Ingar> FatPhil: only for large values of 2
[17:59:21] <Bytram> Excel 2007 says: "4"
[17:59:32] <Ingar> mmm my work vm is down
[18:02:51] <Bytram> FatPhil: BTW, my earlier answer of "-4" was from gawk
[18:03:11] <Ingar> as a sidenote, printf("number %d\n", -2 - -2); is parsed correctly by gcc
[18:05:56] <Ingar> the excel in offce 365 says 4
[18:06:19] <Bytram> GNU Awk versions: 3.1.6; 4.1.3; and 5.1.0
[18:08:39] <Bytram> FatPhil: here's another one for ya:
[18:08:40] <Bytram> $ perl -e 'print -2**2'
[18:08:40] <Bytram> -4
[18:09:35] <Bytram> (This is perl 5, version 22, subversion 0 (v5.22.0) built for x86_64-msys-thread-multi
[18:09:35] <Bytram> )
[18:14:21] <FatPhil> I'm expecting -4 more than 4, and I know why parsers parse the expression that way, but to be honest I think i disagree with their logic, and prefer the MS interpretation!
[18:14:44] <FatPhil> I've always viewed -2 to be a number, not a unary expression, sue me.
[18:19:23] <halibut> I think the standard PEMDAS interpretation is ``-2'' is -1 * 2, and has the precedence of multiplication.
[18:20:33] <halibut> It is espcially helpful when you try to interpret an expression like 4 - 2^2.
[18:21:51] <halibut> You want to avoid any confusion that the ``-'' should be squared and turn that into addition.
[18:22:13] <halibut> ... or, another way, you want to make sure that A + B is always equivalent to A + (-B).
[18:22:27] <halibut> In terms of this, 4 - 2^2 should be equivalent to 4 + -2^2.
[18:24:26] <Bytram> unary minus does not necessarily have to have the same operator precedence as the binary (subtraction) operator
[18:25:26] <Bytram> although, I'd be hard-pressed to come up with an example
[18:35:28] <FatPhil> halibut: don't confuse unary prefix operator - with binary infix operator -, I'm not talking about the binary one.
[18:36:01] <halibut> I agree. Unary minus is different than binary minus. I think the precedence is chosen to make them look more equivalent.
[18:36:16] <FatPhil> unary operators usually have higher precedence than binaries - think *, & in c
[18:37:30] <boru> Also the `sizeof` operator.
[18:37:44] <halibut> I think the unary +/- rules were selected so 0-2^2 evaluates to the same thing as -2^2.
[18:37:56] <halibut> ... but I see no reason why the two would need to be the same.
[18:38:25] <boru> Infix notation annoys me, anyway. It's silly.
[18:38:31] <FatPhil> pretty much all unaries are higher than pretty much all binaries. However, C doesn't have exponentiation, so the question doesnt' arise
[18:39:06] <halibut> I was just playing with that in C. In C: -2^2 is -4. -2^4 is -6.
[18:39:10] <halibut> Yay for XOR.
[18:39:12] <FatPhil> you forth me to program with a lisp?
[18:39:40] <boru> RPN is not only more intuitive, but also easier to parse.
[18:39:50] <boru> Way easier to parse.
[18:39:56] <FatPhil> hell yeah
[18:41:37] <halibut> RPN infix cmpParse? (result: true, RPN is easier to parse)
[18:41:59] <halibut> Also, order of operations is way easier in RPN.
[18:42:25] <boru> Most certainly. It's superior in every way, bar the intertia for people coming from infix notation.
[18:43:54] <FatPhil> However, I've read a lot of mathematical papers, and there's something to be said for nicely typset equations that use infix.
[18:44:05] <boru> Yes, I agree.
[18:44:19] <boru> I should have qualified my statement with "for computing".
[18:44:21] <halibut> I also think the standard infix notation is nicer for writing proofs, but I am having a hard time convincing myself that that is not just intertia, as you call it.
[18:44:35] <FatPhil> it's mashing those expressions into linear ascii strings where it tends to get a bit messed up.
[18:44:37] <boru> Well, no, in the field of mathematics, I think it's acceptable.
[18:45:01] <boru> Of course. You need to understand infix precedence before you can translate.
[18:45:17] <boru> Or get a HP stack calculator.
[18:45:42] <boru> Sad fact: I used to have one of those "No Equals" HP RPN t-shirts.
[18:46:12] <FatPhil> you need to chose the infix precedence that your readership will expect. See my initial question above...
[18:46:22] <boru> I could only find a picture of the hat: https://upload.wikimedia.org
[18:46:38] <boru> I didn't read the scrollback.
[18:46:41] <FatPhil> how does forth represent -2? "2 0 -"?
[18:47:08] <FatPhil> boru: -2^2 or -2**2 in perl/awk/R vs. MS Excel
[18:48:09] <FatPhil> *sh joins the obvious side of that divide
[18:48:56] <halibut> Careful. Bash is an XOR case as well.
[18:48:59] <halibut> (( a = -2 ^ 4 )) ; echo $a
[18:49:05] <halibut> ^ outputs -6
[18:49:31] <halibut> (( a = -2 ** 4 )) ; echo $a
[18:49:33] <halibut> ^ output 16
[18:50:01] <halibut> So I guess bash treats ``-2'' as a single token, essentially giving unary minus a higher precedence.
[18:50:20] <boru> No, in Forth, negative numbers just include the sign e.g. `-2 8 * .`
[18:51:11] <FatPhil> echo $((-2^2))
[18:51:12] <FatPhil> + echo -4
[18:51:12] <FatPhil> -4
[18:51:44] <FatPhil> boru: goood! it also treats -2 as an atomic string representing a number
[18:52:27] <boru> The numeric system in Forth will be familiar e.g. the use of prefices and suffices.
[18:52:40] <FatPhil> OK, now I'm spooked. same shell: $ echo $((-2**2))
[18:52:40] <FatPhil> + echo 4
[18:52:40] <FatPhil> 4
[18:52:55] <boru> What is the goal here?
[18:53:45] <halibut> FatPhil: If you really want to be spooked, try echo $((-2^3))
[18:53:47] <FatPhil> ah, halibut nailed it, ^ is XOT
[18:54:39] <FatPhil> so sh, forth, and Excel bind the - to the 2, awk, perl, and R don't.
[18:55:00] <halibut> Add python to the ``don't'' list.
[18:55:22] <FatPhil> boru - just polling the various languages to see what (if an exponentiation operator exists, let's call it '@') -2@2 is
[18:56:01] <FatPhil> yes, the score is 3:4, but I'm not sure all score with equal weight.
[18:56:24] <halibut> Technically, C and C++ give unary minus a higher precedence than multiplication, but without an exponentiation operator, that does not matter as much.
[18:56:30] <FatPhil> Pari/GP doesn't, it's another -4.
[18:57:14] <halibut> Javascript gives an error for -2**2: unparenthesized unary expression can't appear on the left-hand side of '**'
[18:57:20] <boru> Wait, what is this about Perl and Awk?
[18:57:37] <halibut> All the craziness of type switching in JS, but they just decided unary minus in a power expression was too much.
[18:58:17] <boru> Oh, I re-read. I see what you're saying now.
[18:59:38] <FatPhil> bc gives 4 as well, so it's 4:5 and JS as the throwing its hands in the air middle case.
[18:59:48] <halibut> I am unreasonably amused that, in JS, the people who decided that (2+"0")/2 is 10, but that -2**2 was verboten black magic.
[19:00:03] <FatPhil> ha!
[19:00:09] <FatPhil> halibut++
[19:00:09] <Bender> karma - halibut: 1
[19:00:16] <halibut> My first karma point!
[19:00:46] <FatPhil> if you keep talking sense like that, I'll punish you with more!
[19:01:04] <FatPhil> I'm glad I asked now, I didn't think i'd get to 10 responses!
[19:01:21] <FatPhil> And what have we learnt, boys and girls?
[19:01:25] <FatPhil> 0/0
[19:04:36] <halibut> This reminds me of a very silly talk:
[19:04:38] <halibut> https://www.destroyallsoftware.com
[19:04:39] <systemd> ^ 03Wat
[19:04:39] <exec> └─ 13Wat
[19:08:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Microsoft's "New Approach" to Retail Stores: Closing Them Forever - https://sylnt.us - if-you-build-it
[19:10:03] <AndyTheAbsurd> I feel like that's a great approach to retail for Microsoft.
[19:11:42] <FatPhil> I've seen Wat before, but it still had me with tears running down my face
[19:11:46] <FatPhil> halibut++
[19:11:46] <Bender> karma - halibut: 2
[19:12:15] <FatPhil> Well, the lesson from Amazon is that web shops >> real shops
[19:12:32] <FatPhil> until the real shops go out of businesses, then you can move into where they were.
[21:14:28] -!- Iambchop has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[21:14:37] -!- Iambchop [Iambchop!sid255637@rh-721589.brockwell.irccloud.com] has joined #soylent
[21:17:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - A ‘Cure for Heart Disease’? A Single Shot Succeeds in Monkeys - https://sylnt.us - make-it-retroactive
[22:07:33] <chromas> https://www.youtube.com
[22:07:35] <systemd> ^ 03Poison Ivy Dog Robot
[22:07:35] <exec> └─ 13YouTube
[22:16:35] <chromas> https://imgur.com
[22:16:36] <systemd> ^ 03Imgur: The magic of the Internet
[22:16:37] <exec> └─ 13Imgur: The magic of the Internet
[22:16:50] <chromas> ^ "I made a miniature IBM 1401 Datacentre scale model, handmade scratch build, no 3D printing here!"
[22:41:35] <FatPhil> I made a 1:10^14 scale model of CERN's LHC - it's an S_8 ring.
[22:42:05] <FatPhil> And you thought i was going to say benzene, but that doesn't even make sense - what are the H_12!??!
[22:52:42] <chromas> Pics or it didn't happen
[23:17:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Archaeologists in Turkey Have Uncovered a Mysterious Ancient Kingdom Lost in History - https://sylnt.us - Who-knew-The-Italian-Stallion-could-translate-ancient-texts?-"Stele!"