#soylent | Logs for 2020-06-03

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[00:03:43] <Bytram> use noscript and friends
[00:04:53] <chromas> I've got umatrix and ublock but I've noticed pages are a lot slower when they're enabled
[00:05:25] <Bytram> Heck, I'm running a core 2 duo with 6 GB Ram, and that supports all I'm doing on the site.
[00:05:28] <chromas> Probably firefox's fault
[00:05:37] <Bytram> Pale Moon++
[00:05:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - A Non-Destructive Method of Analysing Molecules in Cells - https://sylnt.us - bright-idea
[00:06:03] <Bytram> PaleMoon++
[00:06:03] <Bender> karma - palemoon: 2
[00:06:06] <chromas> yeah but sn doesn't import 45 GB of js frameworks just to animate parallax scrolling
[00:06:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> hold my beer...
[00:06:57] <chromas> this beer is mysteriously empty. hand me another one
[00:07:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> here's a case, we'd better get to the bottom of this. can't have beer disappearing.
[00:11:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, that was my computer time for the evening. it's now food and veg on the couch time and then sleep time.
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[00:45:16] <soyham> pyramid scheme delight
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[02:16:34] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - 'Plastic-Free' Fashion is Not as Clean or Green as It Seems - https://sylnt.us - life-in-plastic,-it's-fantastic
[02:17:33] <chromas> More things should be plastic. It's pretty great.
[02:18:28] * chromas injects microplastics into the bushes
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[04:28:28] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Atom-Thin Switches Could Route 5G, and Even 6G Radio Signals - https://sylnt.us - don't-sneeze!
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[06:36:09] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Giant Undersea Bug in Toba Aquarium Poops for First Time in Two Years - https://sylnt.us - Oh-Shit!
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[08:46:43] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Astronomers Capture a Pulsar 'Powering Up' - https://sylnt.us - just-a-star-having-a-snack
[10:56:46] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Mass Production of Individualized Products - https://sylnt.us - You-get-one-and-you-get-one-and-you-get-one,-too
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[11:16:07] <datapharmer> Howdy.... just checking in. Just a heads up that the comment time display seems a little funky. Just posted at 7:11 am local 11:11 am utc and it shows 11:11 pm, so it is off by 12 hours and doesn't seem to consider user locale. Not the end of the world but thought I would let you know in case it impacts logs or publication times too.
[11:38:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> datapharmer, what do you have Date/Time Format set to in your preferences?
[11:39:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> #smake TheMightyBuzzard
[11:39:28] * MrPlow smakes TheMightyBuzzard upside the head with proverbial 2x4
[11:39:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're an admin, doofus, you can look at that yourself
[12:06:38] <datapharmer> haha whoops. Completely missed that was even a setting I could configure. Sorry to waste your time.
[12:07:14] <datapharmer> **guzzles coffee to get head screwed on straight**
[12:07:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> no worries. still caffeinating myself
[12:07:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[12:07:41] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5248
[12:13:43] <cmn32480> coffee++
[12:13:43] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5249
[13:08:25] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Publishers Sue the Internet Archive Over its Open Library, Declare it a Pirate Site - https://sylnt.us - book-'em,-Danno?
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[14:09:32] <Bytram> coffee++
[14:09:33] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5250
[14:09:46] <Bytram> =g 5250
[14:09:47] <systemd> https://en.wikipedia.org - 5250 - Wikipedia
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[15:06:43] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Could Corporations Control Territory in Space? Under New US Rules, It Might Be Possible - https://sylnt.us - Keep-your-hands-off-of-my-stash
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[17:16:30] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Twitter Suspends Hundreds Over #DCBlackout Hoax - https://sylnt.us - but-it-was-on-the-internets!
[17:16:51] <chromas> Does Internet Archive still count as a library even after they started adding commentary?
[17:17:15] <Bytram> Shhhh! Keep your voices down!
[17:22:54] <carny> archive.org?
[17:23:05] <carny> what commentary?
[17:23:25] <carny> oh the 'this is fake news' tags?
[17:26:02] <chromas>
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[17:33:48] <carny> well they're already getting sued for 'lending' copyrighted books
[17:34:02] <carny> i think certain people want them gone for their own reasons
[17:34:15] <chromas> That's why I was asking
[17:43:23] <carny> chromas confirmed as carny bot
[17:43:44] <carny> s/bot/sock puppet/
[17:44:03] <chromas> But I was here first. Are you a robot?
[17:44:21] <chromas> Also it's weird that the laptop decided to PC speaker beep on that highlight
[17:44:34] <carny> squares 1 2 4 7 and 9 are fire hydrants
[17:49:12] <chromas> This device isn't recognized. For your security, Google wants to make sure it's really you. Enter a phone number to get a text message with a verification code.
[17:54:11] <carny> wow your laptop has a pc speaker?
[18:01:21] <chromas> No but it thinks it does
[18:01:43] <chromas> So when something tries to beep it, it goes out the amplified speakers at maximum volume
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[19:08:48] <boru> Deucalion; just saw the wallops; will using certfp via SASL EXTERNAL still work?
[19:09:44] <boru> (It still requires you to register your FP with nickserv.
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[19:21:06] <Deucalion> boru, SASL should just require nick+passwd :/
[19:21:46] <Deucalion> boru, what client are you using?
[19:22:52] <Deucalion> boru, I am just changing the FP method, not updating the services version.
[19:25:29] <Deucalion> boru, you may need to clear down your FP listed with NickServ, /msg nickserv cert list make a note of the FP then /msg nickserv cert clear then try SASL with just nick + passwd
[19:26:10] <Deucalion> boru, you can always add it back with /msg nickserv add *youroldFP*
[19:26:22] <Deucalion> boru, you can always add it back with /msg nickserv cert add *youroldFP*
[19:28:09] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - How to Make the Food and Water Mars-Bound Astronauts Will Need for Their Mission - https://sylnt.us - lots-of-MREs
[19:28:45] <Deucalion> boru, once the change is made you should be able to just /msg nickserv cert add to add your FP back in using the new method. There is a way to manually generate the new FP ahead of time and add it to NS if you'd like to do that?
[19:32:10] <boru> At the moment, my SASL auth mechanism is EXTERNAL (with certfp, since services don't support other methods that I am aware of -- bedesides PLAIN), but since it requires registering the fp with nickserv, I presume it'll be effected.
[19:33:55] <Deucalion> note - we are moving to spki which requires an FP of the privkey rather than the cert. Benefit being if you renew your cert but retain the same privkey there is no need to update the FP. We are having to do this as internally we use LetsEncrypt which has short renewal times. Any further upgrades to our ircds will require FPs for them to talk to each other and keeping the FPs updated every time the cert changes would be a PITA
[19:34:30] <boru> Yeah, makes sense.
[19:35:17] <Deucalion> boru, what client do you use?
[19:35:23] <Deucalion> going to do some testing
[19:35:24] <boru> irssi
[19:36:33] <Deucalion> Is PLAIN a problem if connecting over TLS?
[19:37:02] <boru> I would say yes, since you're putting all your eggs in one basket.
[19:37:09] <Deucalion> Fair enough
[19:38:05] <boru> So, iiuc, I need to provide a sha2 fingerprint of the private key used to generate my client cert and register that after the update. Is that correct?
[19:38:13] <boru> Can I register it now, ahead of time?
[19:38:36] <chromas> Paste your private key here and we'll take care of it when the time comes
[19:39:15] <Deucalion> openssl x509 -pubkey -noout -in /your[chain].pem | openssl pkey -pubin -outform DER | sha512sum | sed -r -e 's/^/SPKI:SHA2-512:/'
[19:39:53] <Deucalion> Then /msg nickserv cert add ...whateverTHAT fp is....
[19:40:24] <Deucalion> Or I can make the change now and you should be able to just /msg nickserv cert add without bothering to generate it yourself
[19:40:53] <boru> Will the change clobber any currently registered keys?
[19:40:57] * Deucalion smakes chromas
[19:41:09] <boru> And then, whilst connected, I can register my new one with nickserv?
[19:41:45] <Deucalion> boru, no., no clobbering. You can have multiple registered. Yes you can register the new format along with the old ahead of time.
[19:42:04] <boru> Got it.
[19:42:58] <Deucalion> Just let me know which way you want to go :D
[19:44:10] <boru> Yeah, bear with me. Just generating some new keys for contingency. Do you support ed25519 at your end?
[19:45:01] <Deucalion> for certfp we can only support 1 method at a time.
[19:45:03] <Deucalion> * Acceptable options are sha1, sha256, spki_sha256, sha512 and spki_sha512. Networks
[19:45:03] <Deucalion> * running versions of charybdis prior to charybdis 3.5 MUST use sha1 for certfp_method.
[19:45:32] <boru> I meant for KX.
[19:45:38] <Deucalion> KX?
[19:45:43] <boru> Sorry, key exchange.
[19:45:53] <Deucalion> For the TLS connection?
[19:45:58] <boru> The hash bit I grok.
[19:46:11] <boru> For auth.
[19:46:20] <boru> I'll try it and see.
[19:46:22] <boru> Bear with me.
[19:46:52] <Deucalion> I believe that would be down to whatever our version of openSSH supports....
[19:56:54] <boru> Deucalion; want to give this a shot now?
[19:58:30] <Deucalion> I am seeing ed25519 key files on the server, but I think the config management is spread across servers using hesiod and the conf is not where I think it should be. /me is not a sysadmin
[19:58:34] <Deucalion> boru sure
[19:58:47] <Deucalion> boru, making change now
[19:59:02] <boru> Rgr. Let me know and I'll reconnect.
[20:00:38] <boru> Actually, just to be on the safe side, I'll add one more certfp.
[20:02:49] <Deucalion> Done?
[20:02:53] <boru> I am.
[20:03:01] <Deucalion> rehasing
[20:03:18] <Deucalion> rehashed
[20:03:29] <boru> Alright. I'll reconnect. Fingers crossed.
[20:03:31] <Deucalion> Try a reconnect :D
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[20:04:32] <Deucalion> >.>
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[20:05:02] <Deucalion> Uh oh
[20:05:05] <boru2> It didn't work, it seems.
[20:05:21] <boru2> Let me do some debugging here. I presume it's client side.
[20:06:13] <Deucalion> try /msg nickserv cert add with no argument and see if it adds a different FP :/
[20:06:51] <Deucalion> Oh... you'd need to be boru to do that!
[20:11:28] * Deucalion examines logs... thinks should have enabled more logging :D
[20:16:28] <Deucalion> nothing relevant in logs for ircd or services... but I have them dialed way back
[20:21:28] <Deucalion> boru2, try a reconnect now, I have enabled failed user connect logging
[20:23:00] <boru2> Just did now.
[20:23:57] <Deucalion> bear with, ircd only flushes logs to disk every few mins
[20:25:10] <boru2> No rush. I'll pour myself a whiskey whilst I wait.
[20:28:22] <Deucalion> Going to take the other 2 ircds offline to take them out of the picture
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[20:32:37] <boru2> Need me to reconnect again?
[20:33:23] <pinchy> u betcha
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[20:34:28] <Deucalion> boru2, go ahead and try
[20:34:36] <Deucalion> may need to restart ircd and services
[20:35:10] <boru2> Done.
[20:35:59] <Deucalion> what error do you get if any?
[20:36:57] <boru2> irssi isn't very helpful here; it's just SASL auth failed.
[20:37:23] <boru2> So, it gets far enough to attempt SASL auth.
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[20:43:22] <boru2> Anyway, it's late in the day. We don't have to debug this today.
[20:44:36] <Deucalion> nothing in failed user or IO error logs
[20:44:53] <Deucalion> Got another few mins?
[20:45:18] <boru2> Sure
[20:45:42] <boru2> Could just be client side, or the fingerprints are subtley wrong.
[20:49:34] <Deucalion> rehashing again....
[20:50:08] <Deucalion> boru2, try now pls
[20:50:51] <Deucalion> boru, do /rawlog open foo.txt before connecting, /rawlog close after it fails, paste foo.txt
[20:52:38] <boru2> rawlog won't dump connection information, I think
[20:52:46] <boru2> But I shall try
[20:52:51] <Deucalion> TY :D
[20:53:38] <Deucalion> boru2, /rawlog save foo.txt after it fails appears to be sufficient (and safer)
[20:54:10] <Deucalion> Can you tell I am relaying advice at this point.... from the dev of chary and atheme in case concerned
[20:54:39] <boru2> Yeah, it's logging stuff from other nets, nothing from soylent.
[20:54:45] <boru2> And it's just IRC protocol stuff.
[20:55:11] <Deucalion> BAH
[20:59:42] <boru2> Aha, I figured out why. rawlog needs to be opened after the connection attempt.
[20:59:49] <boru2> That is annoying.
[21:00:21] <boru2> Anyway, seems like this is as informative as it'll get: :irc.sylnt.us 904 boru :SASL authentication failed
[21:00:33] <boru2> I need to look up 904
[21:00:57] <chromas> /rawdog
[21:01:45] <boru2> 904 is failure. How helpful...
[21:03:42] <Deucalion> Your new FPs are incorrectly formed - should commence with SPKI:SHA2-512:
[21:03:48] <boru2> Hmm, so I am not sure what an EXTERNAL handshake should look like, but it doesn't look like it's happening here.
[21:04:08] <boru2> I don't know if irssi supports that.
[21:04:31] <chromas> Time to update irssi
[21:04:33] <boru2> So, EXTERNAL is broken/unsupported now?
[21:04:42] <Deucalion> Not at all
[21:04:55] <Deucalion> Let me update your FPs with NickServ
[21:07:17] <Deucalion> I can't
[21:08:38] <Deucalion> boru2, OK - reverting back to SHA1 so you can connect as boru again
[21:08:50] <boru2> Nah, there's no need to do that man.
[21:09:25] <boru2> irssi can only support PLAIN or EXTERNAL, so I don't think it's possible to use this auth mechanism with it.
[21:09:49] <chromas> is there an irssi extension?
[21:09:56] <boru2> No idea.
[21:10:38] <boru2> I doubt it, since they deprecated the old SASL plugins for their "better" built in SASL functionality.
[21:11:22] <Deucalion> boru2, PLAIN and EXTERNAL are both still available. Just the FP method changed.
[21:11:25] <Deucalion> reverting
[21:11:46] <boru2> Sure, but I suspect this new certfp method doesn't work with EXTERNAL.
[21:12:22] <boru2> The only other thing I can try is to generate a brand new cert with sha2
[21:12:41] <boru2> And then generate the FP from that and add it to nickserv.
[21:14:48] <Deucalion> I have reverted the changes. Reconnect with your sha1 fp
[21:15:11] <boru2> Alright. If you want, I can try what I just suggested and see if that works?
[21:15:42] <Deucalion> You will need to in order to correct the FPs :D
[21:15:59] <boru2> Hmm. Seems like I still can't auth.
[21:16:22] <Deucalion> Dev of ircd and services confirms the new method works with sasl external
[21:16:36] <Deucalion> Use your sha1 FP
[21:17:02] <boru2> I am using the cert the sha1 FP corresponds to.
[21:19:14] <boru2> I'll just auth with plain, and then fix this fp problem. It's late, and I'm tired.
[21:19:21] <Deucalion> boru2, how about for the short while you connect boru using nickserv auth?
[21:20:35] <boru2> I need to remember my password, first.
[21:21:21] <Deucalion> :D
[21:26:28] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Two Lefties Make a Right—If You're a One-In-A-Million Garden Snail - https://sylnt.us - took-'em-long-enough
[21:28:38] <boru2> Deucalion: just saw your wallops message now; so the FP registered with nickserv should have had that string prefix on the front?
[21:28:57] <boru2> The `SPKI:SHA2-512:keystuff`?
[21:29:36] <boru2> That's probably why it wasn't working. I had just registered the FP as normal, sans prefix.
[21:32:32] <Deucalion> It needs the prefix boru2
[21:33:03] <Deucalion> NickServ is dumb it just passes the entire thing to ircd
[21:33:21] <boru2> Makes sense. I've added that now. Want to test it?
[21:33:34] <Deucalion> Sure... 2 secs... config change and rehash incoming
[21:33:44] <boru2> Rgr.
[21:35:45] <Deucalion> boru2 - done
[21:36:34] <Deucalion> boru2 try boru reconnect with that sha2-512 FP
[21:36:42] <boru2> One moment.
[21:36:47] <Deucalion> np
[21:37:03] <boru2> Sigh. Seems that failed.
[21:38:31] <boru2> Hmm, actually, I have a theory. One moment.
[21:38:37] <Deucalion> mmmkay
[21:40:35] <boru2> Yeah, no dice. Even with the SPKI:SHA2-512: it doesn't want to work. Feh.
[21:41:13] <Deucalion> Blech....
[21:41:18] <boru2> Perhaps it doesn't like ed25519. Other than that, I can't think of anything.
[21:41:51] <boru2> One more try with a new certificate. Then I'll go to bed.
[21:42:01] <Deucalion> OK
[21:43:25] <Deucalion> If no go, I'll revert it then do my own testing with SASL
[21:44:01] <Deucalion> We'll get you back online as Boru before beddy byes :D
[21:44:51] <Deucalion> Don;t forget to add your SHA1 FP back in.... just in case of reversion :D
[21:44:56] <Bytram> You can call me beddy and I will call you Al/
[21:44:58] <Deucalion> boru2 ^
[21:45:21] <boru2> Fingers crossed. Once again, to clarify, it's SPKI:SHA2-512:<sha512 hash> right?
[21:45:42] <Deucalion> should be
[21:46:43] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Live Show on Improving Your Security at Wednesday June 3rd, 2020 - https://sylnt.us - protect-yourself
[21:47:48] <Deucalion> boru2 if logged in PLAIN you should just be able to /nickserv cert add no arguments
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[21:48:08] <boru2> What is the effect without arguments?
[21:48:53] <Deucalion> adds the FP of your current cert hashed by the current mechanism
[21:49:11] <boru2> But there is no current cert in that instance, is there?
[21:49:32] <Deucalion> It will be whatever cert your client is using
[21:49:44] <boru2> If it's in the config file, you mean?
[21:49:49] <boru2> The client cert.
[21:49:57] <Deucalion> Yup
[21:51:33] <boru2> It requires arguments here.
[21:51:39] <Deucalion> This is why this change has been on my back burner for going on 4yrs..... I knew it would not be as painless as the docs try to make out it will be :D
[21:54:20] <Deucalion> boru2, OK. I think we both have banged heads here enough for one sitting. I will revert out back to SHA1. Thank you for trying everything! You probably will need to login plain and add a sha1 fp back in once I've reverted
[21:54:47] <boru2> I'll add a SHA1 FP back.
[21:54:55] <boru2> If that doesn't work, then I am truly stumped.
[21:56:10] <boru2> Let me know when you've reverted, and I'll try it.
[21:56:36] <Deucalion> Reverted
[21:58:11] <boru2> Seems to be working here.
[21:58:36] <boru2> Ah, wait, forgot to reload config
[21:58:38] <boru2> One moment...
[21:58:41] <Deucalion> OK, good... back to where we came in! :.....(
[21:58:43] <Deucalion> Uh oh
[21:58:55] <Deucalion> yes you logged in PLAIN
[21:59:11] <Deucalion> boru LOGIN (EXTERNAL)
[21:59:16] <Deucalion> thank fuck
[21:59:19] <boru2> Yeah, looks good there.
[21:59:21] <boru2> Thank fuck, indeed.
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[22:00:10] <boru> I'd still like to get to the bottom of that problem, but not today. If you're around tomorrow, ping me, and we can have a look.
[22:00:13] <Deucalion> Thanks for your patience. At this point you are the only user using certfp as I turfed all the staffers off it forcefully to do this change :D
[22:00:27] <Deucalion> I knew this was going to be a PITA
[22:01:09] <boru> I am wondering if there is a subtle step here, like _what_i they are expecting a sha2 hash of.
[22:01:39] <Deucalion> I'll be around tomorrow after 6PM (UTC) ish once I get in from work. I'll ping you
[22:02:03] <boru> Sound. I have a suspicion, but I'm a bit too tired to go and investigate.
[22:02:09] <boru> I'll have a look tomorrow.
[22:02:45] <boru> Thanks for your patience, also.
[22:02:53] <boru> Catch you tomorrow evening.
[22:03:09] <Deucalion> That is what I am wondering too... spki is an fp of the privkey in theory... as opposed to plain SHA512 (not spki) which would be an fp of the cert.... I think..... I'm not the best at PKI in my understanding
[22:03:16] <Deucalion> Laters boru and thanks again
[22:11:11] <Bytram> Deucalion: I've been watching your efforts from afar and with amazement, too. I can see why you were reluctant to dive in, and yet you still did it *anyway*! You're a mighty nice bloke if I do say so myself, and we are indeed fortunate to have you on the team. THANK YOU!
[22:13:27] <Deucalion> Bytram, my head hurts now.
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[22:36:30] -!- mode/#soylent [+v TheMightyBuzzard_] by Aphrodite
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[22:41:04] <NCommander> Evening all
[23:02:24] <Bytram> good eeeeevening!
[23:05:12] * Deucalion chucks an extra log on the fire then retreats observing distancing rules and wearing a mask
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[23:55:25] <FatPhil> https://www.youtube.com
[23:55:26] <systemd> ^ 03The Dogs from Omsk МИШКА И ХАЛЯВА by Psycandy
[23:55:42] <FatPhil> and with that, goodnight
[23:58:29] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - 'Black Nitrogen': Researchers Discover New High-Pressure Material and Solve Table Periodic Puzzle - https://sylnt.us - under-pressure