#Soylent | Logs for 2019-07-01
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[00:31:10] <chromas> AndyTheAbsurd: try with a $
[00:31:18] <chromas> ${abbr bbc}
[00:31:18] <fungus> bbc
[00:31:26] <chromas> oh
[00:31:29] <chromas> ${abbr BBC}
[00:31:29] <fungus> <abbr title="British Broadcasting Corporation">BBC</abbr>
[00:31:37] <chromas> that's not the right one, fungus
[01:37:52] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Donald Trump Has Become the First Sitting U.S. President to Set Foot in North Korea - http://sylnt.us - Pomp-or-Progress?
[01:51:52] <fyngyrz> Which BBC were you expecting?
[02:58:02] <chromas> bountiful Bodacious Croissants
[03:05:24] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Invasive Exsanguinating Tick Spreading - http://sylnt.us - this-isn't-about-politicians
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[04:45:40] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Motel 6 Pays $10 Million to Settle ICE Guest List Lawsuit - http://sylnt.us - Juan-less-suit-to-deal-with
[06:06:13] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - 2019: DRAM Cheaper... For Now - http://sylnt.us - sales
[07:47:28] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Theranos Founder Elizabeth Holmes to Face Trial Next Year on Fraud Charges - http://sylnt.us - blood-for-blood
[08:31:43] <chromas> https://imgur.com
[08:31:44] <upstart> ^ 03Daily life as a repair tech.
[09:06:55] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Who Will Wake Up From a Coma? Electrical Jolts in the Brain Offer Hints - http://sylnt.us - deep-fried-vegetables
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[10:45:07] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Genealogy Sites Have Helped Identify Suspects. Now They’ve Helped Convict One - http://sylnt.us - https://www.youtube.com
[11:39:22] * cmn32480 wishes he was still on vacation
[11:39:32] <cmn32480> is it wrong to want a vacation from your vacation?
[11:51:24] <Bytram> cmn32480: prolly depends on what you were doing and what you were attempting to *vacate* from.
[11:51:34] <Bytram> coffee++
[11:51:34] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4828
[11:51:44] <cmn32480> coffee++
[11:51:44] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4829
[11:51:52] <cmn32480> a week at Cub Scout day camp baking in the sun
[11:52:05] <Bytram> did you bring ear plugs?
[11:52:10] <cmn32480> nope
[11:52:14] <cmn32480> lotsa sun screen
[11:52:21] <Bytram> that's GOOD
[11:52:32] <cmn32480> and I STILL got a serious tabn
[11:52:44] <Bytram> cmn32480: s/b//
[11:52:52] <Bytram> yeah, no exec.
[11:53:10] <cmn32480> he shoudl be here
[11:53:13] <cmn32480> ~weather
[11:53:16] <exec> syntax: ~weather <location>
[11:53:22] <cmn32480> ~weather uranus
[11:53:24] <exec> syntax: ~weather <location>
[11:53:32] <cmn32480> ~weather moon
[11:53:35] <exec> syntax: ~weather <location>
[11:53:38] <Bytram> huh!
[11:53:44] <cmn32480> hmmmm... exec seems to be broke
[11:53:45] <Bytram> s/h/d/
[11:53:52] <Bytram> ~sed on
[11:53:54] <exec> sed enabled for 10#Soylent
[11:53:58] <cmn32480> that'd do it
[11:54:04] <Bytram> uh huh
[11:54:11] <Bytram> s/h/m/g
[11:54:13] <cmn32480> so how you been?
[11:54:13] <exec> <Bytram> um mum
[11:54:26] <Bytram> wicked busy
[11:54:48] <cmn32480> is that a good thing?
[11:54:54] <Bytram> mostly
[11:54:56] <cmn32480> or do you need a vacation too?
[11:55:20] <Bytram> with co-workers taking vacation and our having a small department, the few that are left have to pick up the load.
[11:55:30] <cmn32480> so... loatsa OT
[11:55:37] <cmn32480> pm?
[11:55:46] <Bytram> isone thing to havbe 1 person out of 12 go on vaca; quite another when there's only 56 of ya
[11:55:50] <Bytram> s/56/5/
[11:55:52] <exec> <Bytram> isone thing to havbe 1 person out of 12 go on vaca; quite another when there's only 5 of ya
[12:31:11] -!- SunTzuWarmaster [SunTzuWarmaster!~90fc4d2b@144.252.rn.hp] has joined #Soylent
[12:32:24] <SunTzuWarmaster> hey guys - just submitted my first story - ugh - Veritas nonsense
[12:32:29] <SunTzuWarmaster> In the queue is this story - https://soylentnews.org
[12:32:30] <upstart> ^ 03Insider Blows Whistle & Exec Reveals Google Plan to Prevent "Trump situation" in 2020 : SoylentNews Submission
[12:32:47] <SunTzuWarmaster> that is, um, kinda a non-submission, given that it didn't do the summary/link thing
[12:33:07] <SunTzuWarmaster> my submission is here - which is a bit better
[12:33:08] <SunTzuWarmaster> https://soylentnews.org
[12:33:08] <upstart> ^ 03Veritas leaked internal E-mails from Google - shows political bias of results: SoylentNews Submission
[12:33:38] <SunTzuWarmaster> I wrote a 'note to editors' (not sure if I'm supposed to do that)
[12:33:45] <SunTzuWarmaster> but, long-story-short - its news
[12:34:13] <SunTzuWarmaster> (things become news when the president comments on them and senators/representatives question people)
[12:34:50] <SunTzuWarmaster> that said - this has to be the slimiest story I've seen in a long time - just covered in slime
[12:37:16] <SunTzuWarmaster> but - I found this story as part of the Google Recommendation algorithm (Jordan Peterson nazi claims) and am/was unable to find the *exact same* story in Google News (but it is in DuckDuckGo News)
[12:37:56] <SunTzuWarmaster> its really strange that the "recommended stories" part of google links to news stories that you cannot find when typing in the exact terms
[12:38:09] <SunTzuWarmaster> (into News)
[12:38:38] <Bytram> clicky
[12:38:59] <SunTzuWarmaster> the "leaked E-mails" were part of the Project Veritas dump - which claims that Google is specifically biasing results to bury certain sources (extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence)
[12:40:38] <SunTzuWarmaster> I was convinced by the Veritas video (I am a senior AI/ML researcher, by trade, and the technicals presented in the video are reasonable, with links to academic papers describing how you would do it)
[12:40:50] <Bytram> SunTzuWarmaster: is any of your submission a quotation from one of those sources?
[12:41:03] <SunTzuWarmaster> and I've come to the conclusion that Google *is* biasing results
[12:41:05] <SunTzuWarmaster> need it be?
[12:41:32] <Bytram> not necessarily, but if it *is*, then we need to put a blockquote around the quoted part
[12:42:35] <Bytram> If it is just your summary of what you believe to be salient points, that is fine, too.
[12:42:46] <SunTzuWarmaster> I did not take direct quotes
[12:42:53] <Bytram> k. tx!
[12:44:06] <SunTzuWarmaster> somewhere in here - everyone is garbage - Veritas is engaged in scummy-if-not-outright-illegal reporting, the story is picked up in summary by Fox (after congressional testimony), etc.
[12:44:34] <SunTzuWarmaster> it is difficult to say if the rep/sen got trolled by Veritas and then grilled some random Google people on the subject
[12:44:40] <SunTzuWarmaster> which is 100% possible
[12:45:40] <Bytram> =g soylentnews.org "deep fake"
[12:45:40] <upstart> https://www.techdirt.com - Another Entity Thinks A Random Bundle Of URLs Is A Legitimate ...
[12:45:50] <Bytram> =g "soylentnews.org" "deep fake"
[12:45:51] <upstart> https://www.techdirt.com - Another Entity Thinks A Random Bundle Of URLs Is A Legitimate ...
[12:46:09] <Bytram> =g "SoylentNews" "deep fake" -techdirt
[12:46:09] <upstart> [0 results]
[12:46:13] <Bytram> lol
[12:46:52] <SunTzuWarmaster> https://duckduckgo.com
[12:46:53] <upstart> ^ 03"SoylentNews" "deep fake" -techdirt at DuckDuckGo
[12:49:03] <SunTzuWarmaster> that said - it seems that the claims are *true*
[12:49:25] <SunTzuWarmaster> the DDG vs. Google news results are very different (even when removing personalization)
[12:49:47] <SunTzuWarmaster> the Google Autocomplete vs. Google Trends data are also very different
[12:52:09] <SemperOSS> Coffee++
[12:52:09] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4830
[12:52:30] <SunTzuWarmaster> as a quick example, the autocomplete for "men are" is, in order "from mars women are from venus" "like waffles" "like bluetooth" and "visual"
[12:52:39] <SunTzuWarmaster> https://trends.google.com
[12:52:40] <upstart> ^ 03Google Trends
[12:53:21] <SunTzuWarmaster> but the last 30 days of the results indicate that the proper ordering is "from mars women are from venus" "visual" "like bluetooth" and "like waffles"
[12:54:02] <SunTzuWarmaster> (this holds true for 30 days, 90 days, 6 months, 12 months, and all time)
[12:54:17] <Bytram> =g antonym corroborate
[12:54:18] <upstart> https://www.merriam-webster.com - Corroborate Synonyms, Corroborate Antonyms | Merriam-Webster ...
[12:54:25] <SunTzuWarmaster> it indicates that something is re-ordering the results
[12:55:19] <SunTzuWarmaster> The Veritas video shows removal of certain categories of results (specifically regarding Doland Trump) from autocomplete and news sources
[12:55:44] <SunTzuWarmaster> whereas my quick experiment above shows simple tampering
[12:56:46] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Found: A Sweet Way to Make Everyday Things Almost Indestructible - http://sylnt.us - ants-in-my-pants
[12:57:08] <SunTzuWarmaster> regardless, I am now convinced that there is a team of people at Google working on ways to bias and/or remove search results in an interest of "fairness". The "evidence" from the leaked E-mail, interview, congressional testimony, DDG/Google News test, and Google Search/Trends test indicate, to me, that Google is specifically doing *something* to the results
[12:57:14] <Carny> does anybody believe that google isn't run by neo-communists?
[12:57:43] <SemperOSS> I do
[12:58:26] <SunTzuWarmaster> @Carny I previously haven't cared about the people running Google - I only care about technical performance. I am happy to buy cakes from any bakery (I do not care about your views, religious preferences, etc.) - if they are good cakes
[12:58:57] <SunTzuWarmaster> It has become apparent to me that Google no longer provides good cakes.
[12:59:33] <Carny> exactly
[12:59:49] <Carny> but they didn't stop providing good cakes because they lost the recipe
[13:00:05] <Bytram> should be "going live", soon.
[13:00:11] <Carny> they stopped because they are neo-communists and they are enacting their agenda through their technology
[13:00:29] <Bytram> oops, forgot one thing.
[13:00:30] <SemperOSS> SunTzuWarmaster, I agree that Google is now missing "Do no" from previous motto
[13:00:42] <SunTzuWarmaster> they are deliberately making cakes which have their views printed on them (to continue the cake analogy, which is falling apart)
[13:00:55] <Carny> :)
[13:01:28] <Bytram> SunTzuWarmaster: attribution for the story... the nick you used here, or "Anonymous Coward" ??
[13:01:29] <Carny> free cakes! (just ignore the airbrushed pic of karl marx on the icing, it still tastes good we promise)
[13:02:29] <SemperOSS> Carny, I am not sure that communism is the right word as Google seem to be more capitalist than anything.
[13:03:12] <Bytram> SunTzuWarmaster: you still here?
[13:04:07] <Carny> yeah it's easy to get confused by the contradiction between communism and being really rich, until you realize that one of the richest men in history was josef stalin
[13:05:13] <Carny> communism has always been based on lies, and the biggest most important one is that everyone is equal
[13:05:30] <SemperOSS> Stalin may have been but it is like my brother, who is a *declared* socialist but a true capitalist *at heart*
[13:05:34] <Bytram> SunTzuWarmaster: given the information you've provided here, it's easy for anyone to work out you submitted this story, so I'm going to put your nick in the byline.
[13:05:38] <Carny> euality is for the proles, the masters at the top live entirely different lives
[13:06:24] <Carny> yeah exacly SemperOSS, that's why it helps to think of them as them neo-communists
[13:06:53] <SemperOSS> And that is a truth — yet most people still seem to believe that wealth will trickle down so cut taxes for the already rich to make the poor ... poorer
[13:07:14] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[13:07:16] <upstart> ^ 03Veritas Claims Leaked Internal E-Mails from Google Showing Political Bias of Results - SoylentNews ( https://soylentnews.org )
[13:07:51] <Carny> truth will set you free but it's hard to swallow, lies are so delicious and fun to share
[13:07:55] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Veritas Claims Leaked Internal E-Mails from Google Showing Political Bias of Results - http://sylnt.us - Google-Biasing-Results?
[13:07:55] * Bytram is expecting a phone call in a few minutes and will then have to go offline for while.
[13:09:13] <SemperOSS> To talk about Google as a search engine, I find that in the last couple of years (as they increasingly use AI and similar methods to "improve" search results) I have trouble honing in on exactly what I want
[13:09:22] <SemperOSS> Bytrram: Back later?
[13:09:33] <Carny> once somebody studies the history of communism it gets alot easier to recognize that these rich and powerful people can be communists at heart
[13:09:40] <SemperOSS> Bytram: Back later?
[13:09:49] <Bytram> prolly
[13:09:54] <SemperOSS> Good
[13:10:20] <Carny> mark zuckerberg isn't a capitalist, he wants to be the minister for information in the peoples democratic republic of america
[13:10:22] <Bytram> did not sleep well, have late shift tonight, and opening shift tomorrow. am already dragging :/
[13:10:52] <SemperOSS> Well, Carny, isn't that exactly what Animal Farm was about, a positive idea gets twisted to satisfy individuals
[13:11:11] <SemperOSS> Poor you.
[13:11:13] <Carny> mmmmm haven't read that in ages
[13:11:38] <Carny> Bytram: can you get in a quick nap or 2 today?
[13:11:46] <SemperOSS> Everyone is equal but some are more equa; than others
[13:12:01] <SemperOSS> s/equa;/equal/
[13:12:03] <exec> <SemperOSS> Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others
[13:12:05] <Carny> oh right that
[13:12:11] <Carny> exactly
[13:12:53] <Carny> that book should be mandatory reading
[13:13:23] <SemperOSS> When I worked in the health care system, they made sure that everyone knew that we should not treat everyone the same but everyone equally
[13:13:27] <Carny> i should see if somebody made a video suitable for quick sharing
[13:13:30] * Bytram hopes so, but the story queue is dry, subs are either from me or of questionable usability, and I've got some code to write before I head off to work.
[13:14:09] <SemperOSS> Why not outsource the code to India, they are much better at making a mess of it than you are?
[13:14:30] <Bytram> SemperOSS: that is a very fine, but important distinction. I saw it used with an example given with people of different heights, but do not recall the argument...
[13:14:53] <Carny> Bytram: i'm new so i haven't learned how things work yet, can i help by looking at a queue somewhere and try to find quality stories?
[13:15:35] <SemperOSS> Bytram, we have a volunteer! :D
[13:15:46] <Carny> :)
[13:15:51] <Carny> i mean ummmm :)
[13:16:20] <Bytram> but, giving the same food rations to a 90-year-old, 5-foot-nothing, little old grandma, and a 6-foot-5 250 pound laborer may be treating them the same, but not what I would call treating them equally (feeding them so they are no longer hungry)
[13:16:31] <Bytram> Carny: story submissions are always welcome!
[13:16:51] <Bytram> Carny: https://soylentnews.org
[13:16:54] <upstart> ^ 03SoylentNews Submissions
[13:17:18] <Carny> well i noticed that #rss-bot looks like its just scraping every rss feed and showing what's out there
[13:17:34] <SemperOSS> That is exactly the thing, and sometimes I think the SJWs have lost sight of the distinction
[13:17:43] <Bytram> not quite *every* feed; only the ones we told it about...
[13:17:51] <Carny> right
[13:18:16] <Carny> is there a way to upvote the ones that look good?
[13:18:19] <Bytram> idea is for us to get wind of some of the things that are happening out there, and if it catches our interest and the story supports it, to use as a start for a story submissions.
[13:18:23] <Bytram> nope
[13:19:25] <Carny> ok
[13:19:37] <SemperOSS> https://www.bbc.co.uk ?
[13:19:41] <upstart> ^ 03Ice 1.5m thick as Mexican city hit by freak hail
[13:19:44] <Bytram> we have bots that will (to varying degrees) take a URL, and make a story submission from it. Some enclose, as best they can, the entire story text (which requires editing on our part) or just the URL and a summary line (which requires us to load the story and select the salient parts to include in a story)
[13:19:52] <Bytram> !
[13:20:48] <Carny> hmm ok so if i take a url from the rss feed and write up a good summary line is that useful?
[13:21:37] <Bytram> yes... take a look at stories on the main page to get an idea of what we are looking for: https://soylentnews.org
[13:21:39] <Bytram> =)
[13:21:39] <upstart> ^ 03SoylentNews: SoylentNews is people
[13:22:10] <Carny> if i can do that from irc and tor browser w/o having to login to a web site i can contribute a lot easier
[13:22:36] <Carny> right i have been occasionally enjoying the home page for awhile now :)
[13:22:37] <Bytram> that is possible....
[13:23:00] <Carny> that's why i searched for the irc server and i'm so glad i found one :)
[13:23:11] <Bytram> when you submit a story, just leave blank the identifying fields and it will come to us as "An Anonymous Coward writes:"
[13:23:19] <Bytram> yay!
[13:23:26] <Carny> ok
[13:23:52] <Bytram> feel free to submit what you like, mindful of what the interests are here -- primarily tech related but we will consider most things.
[13:24:04] <Bytram> also, phone call any moment now; really gotta go.
[13:24:12] <Carny> cheers
[13:24:15] <Bytram> look forward to seeing what you come up with!
[13:24:15] <Carny> ttyl
[13:24:19] <Bytram> obliged1
[13:24:24] <Bytram> ciao for now!
[13:27:15] <SemperOSS> See ya
[13:28:32] -!- patchman [patchman!~username@g16npgrr.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #Soylent
[13:40:23] <NCommander> my brain is badly fried
[13:46:56] <cmn32480> welcome to my world
[13:49:06] <SemperOSS> NCommander: Oh, *you're* the one with the brain? Nice to meet ya!
[13:49:25] <NCommander> lol
[13:49:36] <NCommander> cmn32480, I've been badly sick for three weeks while travelling.
[13:49:48] <cmn32480> drank the water did you?
[13:59:26] <Carny> ok i found a test article
[14:00:12] <Carny> i saw in #editorial how you can =submit a url but how do you add a summary?
[14:29:32] <SunTzuWarmaster> eh - would have preferred non-attribution, but whatever
[14:29:57] <SunTzuWarmaster> had to go do stuff - was AFK, no worries
[14:30:08] <NCommander> finally zeroed out my inbox
[14:32:42] <Bytram> NCommander++ yay! and wb!
[14:32:42] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 118
[14:32:54] <Bytram> SunTzuWarmaster: will adjust
[14:33:14] <Bytram> if I can
[14:36:05] <Bytram> done
[14:40:40] <Carny> Bytram: i thought you were going to work ;]
[14:40:56] <Bytram> I've got a couple hours until I need to be there.
[14:41:11] <Carny> oh ok cool
[14:41:24] <SemperOSS> When I was visiting USA in the early nineties, I was so jealous of their cheap internet connections as they did not pay per minute for the modem calls and now it is the other way round, where I have unlimited internet on a cell-based MiFi box for less than $20 a month. Why is that?
[14:41:26] <Carny> well can you tell me how to =submit a url with a summary?
[14:42:00] <Carny> SemperOSS: government regulation makes it almost impossible for new competition
[14:42:11] <Bytram> =submit from the better-late-than-never? dept. https://www.ghacks.net
[14:42:12] <upstart> Submitting "Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10 - gHacks Tech News"...
[14:42:32] <AndyTheAbsurd> Carny: Use...shit, I forgot which bot it is. But one of them just lets you put summary text after the URL.
[14:42:33] <Bytram> the text between the "=submit" and the URL will become part of the story submission
[14:42:34] <upstart> ✓ Sub-ccess! "Microsoft Explains the Lack of Registry Backups in Windows 10 - gHacks Tech News" (16 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:42:42] <Carny> and the incumbents pay lobbyists to prevent anyone from building municipal fiber
[14:42:52] <SemperOSS> But regulation here in the UK is *much* more heavy-handed, so there must be another reason
[14:44:22] <Bytram> SemperOSS: IIRC, it came about when the republican-controlled FCC at the time removed the requirement for telco's to provide hardware on an equal basis for all DSL companies that were interested. There were "games" that were played with delays and quality of lines and the like, but the competition helped to keep prices down.
[14:44:35] <Carny> Bytram: ok so i can do the dept but can i write a line or 2 about the article after the url?
[14:44:43] <SemperOSS> Yeah, and here we thought that the governors and senators and representatives and presidents and what not were elected to serve the public and not themselves or companies
[14:44:46] -!- arti|work [arti|work!~textual@kpku-40-80-465-497.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #Soylent
[14:45:11] <Bytram> once that was revoked, we gradually ended up with the natural monopolies with their cordoning off different regions for their whatever-the-sky will allow pricing.
[14:45:29] <Bytram> Carny: I've not tried it, but I expect it should work.
[14:45:47] <Carny> SemperOSS: i have noticed that europeans are as misinformed about what goes on in the usa as we are about what goes on in the eu
[14:45:58] <Carny> Bytram: ok i will try
[14:46:05] <Bytram> and, the dept line I used was just illustrative for the example. take a look a the linked-to-article and what got put into the story submission queue
[14:46:18] <Bytram> s/k a/k at/
[14:46:21] <exec> <Bytram> and, the dept line I used was just illustrative for the example. take a look at the linked-to-article and what got put into the story submission queue
[14:47:04] <AndyTheAbsurd> Question: Besides xmllint, what can I use to correct formatting of valid-but-badly-formatted XML? (xmllint doesn't like tags having both text and child tags, which is all over the place in my incoming data.)
[14:47:31] <Bytram> have not tried it, but HTML Tidy (IIRC) can grok XML
[14:47:35] <Bytram> =g HMTL Tidy
[14:47:36] <upstart> http://tidy.sourceforge.net - HTML Tidy Project Page
[14:47:43] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - 5 Phones with the Best Battery Life - http://sylnt.us - getting-a-charge-out-of-life
[14:47:49] <SemperOSS> There are a few areas where I would not like to see privatisation (and I know I'm too late): Infrastructure, police, military, education and health care — I have probably forgotten one or two. And before you shoot, hang, quarter and drown me: No, I'm not a bloody, sodding communist ;-)
[14:48:21] * AndyTheAbsurd shoots, hangs, quarters, and drowns SemperOSS for NOT being communist
[14:48:26] <Bytram> Don't know how well it has been supported of late, but I've used it on windows for many years and has been most helpful in getting random formatting changed into something easier for me to parse.
[14:48:27] <Bytram> good luck
[14:49:33] <Carny> did that work?
[14:49:35] <SemperOSS> Carny: I am sure it is the case, but I have tried to keep an eye on what is going on on the other side of the pond
[14:50:12] <Carny> SemperOSS: me too let's be truth pen pals :)
[14:50:27] <SemperOSS> Yay! :)
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[14:51:08] <Carny> tbh if i knew anybody super rich i would be building a news and media empire right now
[14:51:36] <Carny> highest priority on truth and accuracy, because nobody else is even trying anymore
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[14:51:59] <SemperOSS> AndyTheAbsurd: I didn't know you had such predilections. Is it because you are very much pro-communist or just because you are a cantankerous murderer?
[14:53:09] <SemperOSS> Carny, I think the BBC is considered fairly well-balanced, albeit left-leaning (in the US, that is — actually not, the Conservatives here do too)
[14:55:17] <Carny> yeah last time i could watch bbc news us for a while i noticed it was left leaning but also got the impression that every person on the air really wanted to unleash the trump hate but were holding back
[14:55:30] <Carny> it seemed awkward and funny at the time
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[14:56:09] <Bytram> Carny++ We also haver a fun little means of giving notice to folk here, on a channel by channel basis.
[14:56:09] <Bender> karma - carny: 1
[14:56:10] <SemperOSS> Trump hate? No, no, you are misunderstanding, it is Trump *truth*!
[14:56:21] <Carny> lol
[14:56:22] <Bytram> !grab SemperOSS
[14:56:22] <Bender> Added quote 903
[14:56:28] <Bytram> ~quote 903
[14:56:30] <Bytram> !quote 903
[14:56:30] <Bender> Quote 903 - <SemperOSS> Trump hate? No, no, you are misunderstanding, it is Trump *truth*!
[14:56:36] <Carny> lolll
[14:56:38] <Bytram> !whoup Carny
[14:56:38] <Bender> uppers of carny are: Bytram: 1
[14:56:57] <Bytram> !whoup coffee
[14:56:58] <Bender> uppers of coffee are: TheMightyBuzzard: 2177, crutchy: 1239, Bytram: 1189, cmn32480: 477, Blackmoore: 237, chromas: 94, paulej72: 59, Runaway1956: 55, crutchy_: 55, mrcoolbp: 31, Bytram|away: 29, mechanicjay: 27, FatPhil: 23, Ethanol-fueled: 23, TheMightyLaptop: 22, cmn32480|away: 22, everdred: 21, SemperOSS: 19, arti: 19, xhedit: 19, qkontinuum: 17, boru: 17, mattie_p: - 4 more
[14:57:05] <Bytram> which reminds me
[14:57:09] <Bytram> coffee++
[14:57:09] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4831
[14:57:13] <Bytram> and, for old time's sake:
[14:57:16] <Bytram> poutine--
[14:57:16] <Bender> karma - poutine: -432
[14:57:22] <Bytram> and one more
[14:57:26] <Bytram> allergies--
[14:57:26] <Bender> karma - allergies: -44
[14:59:18] <SemperOSS> Bytram, what have you got against chips, cheese and gravy?
[14:59:57] <Bytram> ~last poutine
[14:59:59] <exec> 03Ops: random, first, last, all, count, source. Parameters: message, nick, channel (regex); since, until (date-/time range); limit (maximum messages to return; default is 1, unless op=all); type [message (plain+action; default), plain, action, nick, mode, join, part, quit, kick, kill, topic, all]; out [json, php, tab, irc, message, html]; debug (show the query and whatever else)
[15:00:00] <exec> http://chromas.0x.no
[15:00:08] <Bytram> ~seen poutine
[15:00:10] <exec> Bytram, poutine was last seen in #Soylent 149 days, 10 hours, 54 minutes, 12 seconds ago with message: alsa/oss and others were a mess
[15:00:45] <Bytram> not the tasty spud and gravy concoction, but the user who used that as a nick to troll these channels
[15:01:49] <SemperOSS> Oh, I should have know from seeing your entry. >:o
[15:08:46] <Bytram> lol
[15:09:03] <Bytram> really gtg... have a great day, and thanks so much for the story submissions!!!!!
[15:10:41] <SemperOSS> Bytram: Thank you for your tireless management of stories. Are you the only active editor left?
[15:10:46] <AndyTheAbsurd> Bytram: HTML Tidy doesn't like my input. :( Not sure yet if I can fix it with custom tags, but I'm going to give that a shot.
[15:12:48] <SemperOSS> I can see that takyon and chromas are doing theirs too. You need an Australian editor or such, to keep things going when you are sleeping
[15:17:43] <AndyTheAbsurd> This seems to work: https://prettydiff.com - but I'm not seeing a prebuilt binary for offline use...
[15:17:43] <upstart> ^ 03Pretty Diff - The difference tool
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[15:55:20] <Carny> is it ok to submit twitter threads?
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[16:25:22] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Mexico Hail: Ice 1.5m thick Carpets Guadalajara - http://sylnt.us - How-to-keep-a-cool-head-in-summer
[16:32:20] <NCommander> Huh, the last poutine message is actually accurate
[16:32:30] <NCommander> ALSA/OSS in Linux *is* as a mess. That's noe even a troll
[16:46:57] <SemperOSS> What I do not understand about the approaches to sound (and video, really) on Linux is that no-one seems to have made a simple plug-board metaphor where you have a number of signal sources and a number of signal sinks. Then have a plug-board like the *old* telephone exchanges and use them to connect the components together.
[16:47:21] <SemperOSS> s/) on/) in/
[16:47:24] <exec> <SemperOSS> What I do not understand about the approaches to sound (and video, really) in Linux is that no-one seems to have made a simple plug-board metaphor where you have a number of signal sources and a number of signal sinks. Then have a plug-board like the *old* telephone exchanges and use them to connect the components together.
[16:48:42] <SemperOSS> With metaphorical patch cables, of course.
[16:49:27] <Carny> SemperOSS: have you looked at jack yet?
[16:49:46] <SemperOSS> Not in detail. Should I?
[16:49:56] <Carny> i think thats what jack does
[16:50:16] <Carny> ubuntu studio might be a good way to try it out
[16:50:35] <SemperOSS> I will look more into it, when I can.
[16:51:21] <SemperOSS> Ah, but does Ubuntu Studio run on my PCLinuxOS laptop?
[16:51:35] <Carny> no idea ;]
[16:52:18] <SemperOSS> It is not in their repository but Jack is installed.
[16:52:21] <Carny> its a whole os but idk if it runs well on your laptop
[16:53:11] <Carny> i think the thing about ubuntu studio is that it does the integration work for you so apps should just work
[16:53:18] <SemperOSS> Ah, oh, it's a distro. I have settled on PCLOS for now as the best Poettering-avoiding distro.
[16:53:29] <Carny> ok
[16:53:41] <SemperOSS> No systemd, you know.
[16:54:06] <Carny> i just meant you could check out jack in a quick and dirty way instead of having to ram it into your existing system
[16:54:17] <Carny> systemd--
[16:54:17] <Bender> karma - systemd: -28
[16:54:31] <SemperOSS> systemd-- I agree
[16:54:31] <Bender> karma - systemd: -29
[16:55:57] <SemperOSS> My laptops used to run seriously well for v-e-r-y long stretches of time until systemd started to sneak in. The more systemd in the systems the more unstable they got.
[16:56:49] <Carny> yeah and pulse audio can crash a system at the drop of a hat
[16:57:07] <Carny> just unplug your headphones and roll the dice
[16:57:33] <SemperOSS> I seriously still do not know how Lennart Poettering got so many distros on board. I have just installed PCLOS on this machine and it boots to the desktop in less than 15 seconds. That is well good enough for me.
[16:58:10] <SemperOSS> Yes, pulseaudio is not very helpful and ALSA has its number of problems too. Sigh!
[16:58:19] <Carny> he works for red hat
[16:58:32] <Carny> they have major gov backing
[17:01:24] <SemperOSS> Yes, but I think he may be seriously autistic I think (and I guarantee you that I am not trying to diss autistic people, we have plenty in the family). He cannot fathom that his approach may be wrong, especially not when it does so much good like shave off many milliseconds of boot time and all the other things it does on the way to world domination.
[17:01:56] <SemperOSS> s/I think (/(
[17:02:10] <SemperOSS> s/I think (/(/
[17:02:12] <exec> <SemperOSS> Yes, but I think he may be seriously autistic (and I guarantee you that I am not trying to diss autistic people, we have plenty in the family). He cannot fathom that his approach may be wrong, especially not when it does so much good like shave off many milliseconds of boot time and all the other things it does on the way to world domination.
[17:02:13] <Carny> i think he's just an asshole not necessarily autistic
[17:02:57] <SemperOSS> Look at his body language.
[17:03:10] <Carny> no thanks i rather just avoid him completely ;]
[17:03:27] <SemperOSS> LOL
[17:04:03] <Carny> funny thing about getting faster boot times is you can just use /bin/dash for your scripts instead of /bin/bash and get a 4x speed up for small scripts
[17:04:22] <Carny> or /bin/ash for the non debian version
[17:05:33] <SemperOSS> I will try that on my RPi servers. Not that they are booted that often but still, Poettering has shown us the way ;)
[17:06:41] <SemperOSS> I have tried Devuan as a systemd-free alternative, but it was not quite there at the time. And I fear it will not have sufficient support to keep going.
[17:09:03] <Carny> when did you try it?
[17:10:41] <SemperOSS> Late last year and early this year.
[17:13:30] <Carny> hmm ok
[17:13:54] <FatPhil> devuan super solid for me, but I mostly have headless systems.
[17:14:02] <Carny> i looked when it was still based off the old debian version and it was p.crusty
[17:14:20] <Carny> SemperOSS: what didn't work for you?
[17:15:18] <FatPhil> This machine, my RasPi(an old B+): 20:14:32 up 544 days, 8:15, 6 users, load average: 0.00, 0.04, 0.06
[17:15:23] <SemperOSS> There were programs I could not install without maybe having to roll them myself and I had some HW issues (I cannot even remember exactly what)
[17:16:45] <Carny> FatPhil: nice ;]
[17:16:57] <Carny> have you guys seen the new ras pi 4?
[17:17:19] <Carny> finally a good chip layout and 4gb ram
[17:17:30] <SemperOSS> I've got a little handful of RPis lying around, maybe I'll try again with those. I'm going to buy a RPi4 as my new firewall
[17:17:51] <Carny> only problem is they upgraded the cpu to a model that has some branch prediction flaws
[17:19:00] <SemperOSS> If they get access to the firewall as such it doesn't matter much with those flaws, I think. The firewall is, by nature, headless and with no "ordinary" users on it to exploit it.
[17:20:17] <Carny> good point
[17:20:39] <Carny> i was interested in them for small desktop use
[17:21:18] <Carny> give them to family and make them use that for high sec stuff like banking
[17:21:38] <SemperOSS> They seem to have enough oomph for some serious desktop use as long as it is not gaming or video creation (or pure number crunching)
[17:22:03] <Carny> let them infect their regular computer with instasnaptwitface
[17:22:17] <Carny> yeah
[17:23:37] <SemperOSS> I wish they were available when my dad was alive. My brother (who is in computer HW business) gave Dad a Windows PC and since my brother did not know much about software, Dad always contacted me with his Microsoft Word problems. Argh!
[17:24:40] <SemperOSS> I do *not* run Windows and I do not use Office unless I am at a customer site where it is required (and then it will be on *their* hardware)!
[17:26:09] <Carny> good on ya mate ;]
[17:26:52] <SemperOSS> Yeah
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[17:47:30] <SunTzuWarmaster> man - I'm not a freaking reporter
[17:47:31] <FatPhil> Carny: seems like they've fixed some of the biggest complaints about the prior Pis (comms), but I ain't interested in all those Watts.
[17:47:39] <SunTzuWarmaster> can we get a reporter to do this job
[17:47:41] <SunTzuWarmaster> ?
[17:47:41] <SunTzuWarmaster> https://soylentnews.org
[17:47:42] <upstart> ^ 03SoylentNews Comments | Veritas Claims Leaked Internal E-Mails from Google Showing Political Bias of Results ( https://soylentnews.org )
[17:48:20] <FatPhil> I'll be happy to pick up another spare Pi3 to take over some of the tasks I'm using my Pi for.
[17:48:33] <Carny> FatPhil: what are you using it for?
[17:49:19] <FatPhil> Pi is dev webserver and IRC, Pi3 is prod webserver, and mail.
[17:49:31] <Carny> SunTzuWarmaster: what do you mean?
[17:49:58] <Carny> FatPhil: oh ok so you are trying to do those jobs with as little power as possible?
[17:50:03] <Carny> or heat?
[17:51:13] <FatPhil> I grew up fanless, I bought a 'puter with the first ever CPU to hit "lightbulb" wattage (60W, that is, no idea what that is in furlongs per fortnight), and just wanna return to the old fanless days.
[17:52:40] <Carny> cool ;]
[17:53:28] <FatPhil> 30 piles of internet points for naming that CPU! (without binging).
[17:55:18] <FatPhil> I'm not counting the ones that were overclocked.
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[17:58:20] <FatPhil> I've not been following things - does bing still exist, or am I showing my age?
[17:58:30] <SunTzuWarmaster> bing still exists
[17:58:41] <AndyTheAbsurd> bing still exists; I actually use it more than Google these days, because fuck Google.
[17:58:43] <SunTzuWarmaster> ...it is the #1 search on Google
[17:58:56] <boru> It exists, and still has a censorship-free image search.
[18:00:16] <FatPhil> My default is DDG, but I always follow up with a "!g" version of the search because the results are so terrible!
[18:00:41] <boru> Are there any C++ fellas here? Preferably intersected with vim users.
[18:01:19] <FatPhil> I do have several "programmed C++" and one "lectured C++" on my CV.
[18:01:24] <SemperOSS> C + vim good enough or are you very much into inheritance?
[18:01:36] <SemperOSS> coffee++
[18:01:36] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4832
[18:02:09] <FatPhil> However... that was in the early 90s, where this thing called "cfront" was still a thing, and C++ was defined in terms of which version of cfront supported the contstructs.
[18:02:41] <FatPhil> and then it turned into a monstrosity.
[18:02:43] <boru> I've been writing C and assembly language for the last few decades, but I'll be writing a bit of C++ in my new gig; I've been using cscope and clang_complete for C bits. I've switched to YCM for the latter, but I haven't found a decent replacement for the former for C++ (since it's woefully inadequate for half-way complex C++ code bases)
[18:03:00] <boru> For codebase navigation, that is.
[18:03:12] <FatPhil> for navigation, I use "cd"
[18:03:46] <boru> rtags is a shitfest, and the rest of the tools require one of those clang-json-database-generators, which I'd prefer to avoid.
[18:04:06] <SemperOSS> Nah from me, C and assembler and I can talk to you — but C++ for real, sorry
[18:04:18] <boru> No bother. I can relate.
[18:05:04] <boru> cscope is fine for cross referencing C++, but it gets a bit wonky for inheritance and templatey bits.
[18:05:54] <boru> Someone told me you can convince YCM to do it, or ALE, I don't remember which.
[18:06:22] <boru> I haven't used C++ since C++{98,03}, so it's not so much my wheelhouse anymore.
[18:08:39] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Why Cybersecurity has an Open-Source Solution - http://sylnt.us - open-algorithms-with-secret-keys
[18:10:02] <boru> On an unrelated note, wtf is up with lennux these days? I `init=/bin/sh` a box today to add my user to the wheel group, but when I tried to `shutdown -r` it complained that it couldn't open a socket to contact the init daemon. Has systemd consumed acpi stuff now as well?
[18:14:13] <Carny> systemd is infecting everything like aids
[18:14:50] <SemperOSS> But AIDS can actually be contained these days
[18:14:56] <Carny> lol
[18:15:58] <boru> It's feckin bonkers.
[18:16:20] <SemperOSS> Maybe systemd is god's punishment on the Linux community for losing their ways and stray from Windows?
[18:16:32] <Carny> FatPhil: have you tried disconnect or startpage for searching?
[18:17:58] <boru> The most annoying thing about the systemd fallout is all of the linux refugees over to BSD. They're insufferable.
[18:21:06] <chromas> That was the true goal all along
[18:21:11] * chromas laughs in Mandark
[18:22:19] <SemperOSS> I have installed PCLinuxOS on my new laptop and the support is nice and the cult still takes in new converted ... and it is systemd free!
[18:22:39] <chromas> Take down one competitor by taking down another. It's like building 7
[18:22:45] <boru> How long will that last for?
[18:22:50] <boru> The no-systemd thing.
[18:22:55] <boru> I thought Slackware was the last bastion.
[18:23:09] <chromas> There's also Void Linux and some others
[18:23:10] <FatPhil> Carny: I have not, I can give anything a go, I guess. I like DDG's lightweight HTML-only interface.
[18:23:33] <boru> startpage is alright, but you still get the google censorship.
[18:25:38] <SemperOSS> boru, I hope the non-systemd systems will last at least until I have left the planet
[18:26:34] <boru> Yeah, I'd like to see slack stick around for a while, yet.
[18:26:48] <SemperOSS> https://en.wikipedia.org
[18:26:48] <upstart> ^ 03Category:Linux distributions without systemd - Wikipedia
[18:27:24] <boru> That's quite a few. Interesting.
[18:27:24] <SemperOSS> Apparently 49 non-systemd distros
[18:28:33] <boru> Yuck. I think calling those android distros Linux is a bit disingenuous.
[18:28:39] <SemperOSS> They say you never forget your first, but I seem to have forgotten almost all about Slackware
[18:29:51] <boru> Aye, I had a box knocking around for testing stuff on Linux, but it's been a while since I've touched it, also.
[18:32:47] <fyngyrz> likewise redhat. Left it, never looked back.
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[19:03:26] <chromas> I guess if we're getting emails about sponsored stories, we must've made it bigt time
[19:03:36] <chromas> We should accept them for $100,000 each
[19:05:26] <Carny> boru: is there any search engine besides bing that doesn't use google in the back end?
[19:05:41] <boru> Hmm.
[19:05:55] <boru> ixquick, I think.
[19:06:05] <boru> Wha about yandex? Or yahoo?
[19:06:12] <boru> Is yahoo even still around?
[19:06:20] <chromas> yahoo uses bing last I heard
[19:06:23] <Carny> i don't think yahoo has had their own search engine for years
[19:06:24] <boru> What ever happened to altavista.
[19:06:51] <chromas> bought by yahoo
[19:07:05] <Carny> lol altavista died before most of these kids were born ;]
[19:07:37] <boru> For shame.
[19:09:05] <boru> ISTR a few eepsites that were long running experiments to build a www search engine gateway out of eepspace.
[19:10:02] <boru> Ah, Baidu, of course.
[19:10:08] <boru> Yandex is still going strong, though.
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[19:46:26] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Berlin Brandenburg: The Airport with Half a Million Faults - http://sylnt.us - You-Thought-Your-Builders-Were-Bad
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[21:16:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - NASA to Test Launch Orion Capsule on Tuesday - http://sylnt.us - gotta-get-away
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[22:57:16] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Oppo Introduces Proprietary Smartphone-Based Mesh Network Framework - http://sylnt.us - not-oppo-sed-to-it
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[23:18:26] <RandomFactor> Wheeeeee doggies! https://www.bleepingcomputer.com
[23:18:27] <upstart> ^ 03Billions of Records Including Passwords Leaked by Smart Home Vendor
[23:19:45] <RandomFactor> https://phys.org
[23:19:46] <upstart> ^ 03World's smallest MRI performed on single atoms