#Soylent | Logs for 2019-05-05

« return
[00:27:47] * Deucalion sneaks in and rests by the fire
[01:06:51] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Permafrost is Thawing in the Arctic So Fast Scientists Lost Their Equipment - http://sylnt.us - this-worries-me
[01:09:33] <AzumaHazuki> global warming isn't real, you commie pinko liberal Muslim Jew Mexican socialist terrorist
[01:09:40] <AzumaHazuki> WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?!
[01:35:20] <chromas> global warm is real, it's just all natural
[01:35:30] <chromas> goalposts_moving.mpg
[01:36:24] <chromas> Okay, it's not all natural, but it's mostly the Chinese we outsource all out manufacturing to
[01:36:40] <chromas> And those Koreans doing all our animations
[02:36:24] <AzumaHazuki> So, can I Spam mod that nutso white nationalist who's shitposting all over, or does that not count?
[03:14:08] -!- Fnord666_ [Fnord666_!~Fnord666@925-300-434-342.ubr6.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined #Soylent
[03:16:24] -!- Fnord666_ has quit [Client Quit]
[03:25:58] -!- Fnord666_ [Fnord666_!~Fnord666@925-300-434-342.ubr6.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined #Soylent
[03:26:58] <Fnord666_> #submit https://gizmodo.com
[03:26:59] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[03:27:24] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[03:35:48] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Facebook Now Used for Dark Web Activity - http://sylnt.us - it's-used-for-everything
[03:52:57] <Sulla> Azumahazuki are people still posting in the thread from days ago or is there some new thread it's happening in?
[03:53:10] <AzumaHazuki> he's gone into overdrive
[03:53:48] <AzumaHazuki> and you know, the fact that the staff doesn't do anything about this shit reflects very badly on them. i am beginning to wonder if this place serves any purpose any longer
[03:54:17] <Fnord666_> yawn
[03:55:13] <AzumaHazuki> i don't doubt now that SN is seen as a target for alt-right influence campaigns, and one with a uniquely weak immune system at that
[04:10:45] <Sulla> Can you give an example of what posts you consider to be just over the line from being "behavior I hate" and "behavior of a Nazi" or "behavior of a white supremacist". I know what that line is for aristarchus, but I don't know where it is for you
[04:14:23] <AzumaHazuki> start from here https://soylentnews.org and just chase this guy down the subthreads. note particularly how quickly he dissolves into pathetic asshattery when i start tarpitting him
[04:14:25] <upstart> ^ 03Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location And Web History - SoylentNews
[04:14:47] <AzumaHazuki> er, oops. here https://soylentnews.org
[04:14:49] <upstart> ^ 03SoylentNews Comments ( https://soylentnews.org )
[04:15:41] <AzumaHazuki> notice in particular his record-breaking fall into "I know you are but what am I?"
[04:15:56] <AzumaHazuki> that is some kind of speed record. not even Uzzard sinks that low that fast
[04:17:09] <AzumaHazuki> and at this point he devolves into actual spamming, just copypasting the declaration of independence...https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=31370&page=3&cid=838641#commentwrap
[04:17:10] <upstart> ^ 03SoylentNews Comments ( https://soylentnews.org )
[04:18:50] <AzumaHazuki> also, Sulla? If you tell me that shit isn't "behavior of a white supremacist" it will serve you right if your small intestine jumps up and strangles you from within for that kind of blatant lying
[04:21:37] <chromas> If he's pasting it multiple times, I'd think the spam mod is warranted
[04:21:54] <AzumaHazuki> oh so now it has to be an exact goddamn multiple-post?
[04:21:56] <Sulla> Seems like something I would agree on
[04:22:06] <Sulla> It's always been that way
[04:22:22] <Sulla> But I think variations should count as spam
[04:22:27] <chromas> nobody said it has to be exactly the same, but if it is, then it would be warranted
[04:22:37] <AzumaHazuki> so he's been shitting the thread up and then gives up on any semblance of even pretending to argue, but that doesn't count as spamming...
[04:22:59] <chromas> I didn't look at the rest of the thread
[04:23:31] <AzumaHazuki> let the record show this here and now: I am warning you all, SN is going to get hollowed out and its violated corpse used as another weapon in the alt-right's culture war if we do not crack down on this shit
[04:23:35] <AzumaHazuki> word gets around
[04:24:15] <AzumaHazuki> now i know i'm the modern-day Cassandra, so no one's gonna fuckin' listen, and then everyone's gonna act all surprised and go "Oh if only someone had warned us!"
[04:24:35] <Sulla> If I come from a town in the midwest that is 80% ethnic swede, and we have had for 80 years a yearly swede festival. Am I racist for saying that wanting to continue is racist? I am not saying the town should be kept 80% swede, I am just saying I want to still have the festival, is that wrong?
[04:25:00] <chromas> Yes
[04:25:03] <AzumaHazuki> ...jesus fucking Christ
[04:25:07] <Sulla> Is not racist *
[04:25:36] <AzumaHazuki> Sulla, do you see the difference between "taking pride in my Swedish heritage" and white nationalism? if you do not, if you would even think to compare the two, then guess fuckin' what? you are a useful idiot for the alt-right
[04:25:43] <Sulla> The insane ones on the right are over reacting because they are being told that any interest in their past is wrong
[04:25:59] <Sulla> So then you have a tit for tat back and forth with both sides escalating
[04:26:11] -!- RandomFactor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[04:26:24] <AzumaHazuki> no they're not, jackass. actually listen to what they say and what they're trying for. no one says it's wrong to celebrate Swedish, German, Polish culture. these people are making some mythical monolothic "white culture" up
[04:27:21] <AzumaHazuki> Sulla, there are days I despair of you ever being redeemable :/ you ought to know better, you're smart enough to know better, and yet you habitually drop trou and splatter us all with this maliciously ignorant squitter
[04:28:18] <Sulla> Maybe it's not a big thing in your neck of the woods, but what I described is common on the west coast
[04:28:43] <AzumaHazuki> name me one example you have seen where someone specifically tells you your Swedish heritage is a problem
[04:30:49] <AzumaHazuki> ...thought so. so we can consider that line of argumentation bork-bork-bork'd
[04:31:17] <chromas> Hey now, you can't just go around using the b-word like that
[04:31:37] <AzumaHazuki> i said bork, not Bjork
[04:31:44] <Sulla> Trying to find a non-local example, hard to look when every word you Google brings up trump
[04:31:55] <AzumaHazuki> hmm, i wonder why the fuck that might be...?
[04:32:19] <AzumaHazuki> maybe because, newsflash, VIRTUALLY NO ONE AT ALL AND DEFINITELY NO ONE SANE HAS A PROBLEM WITH SWEDISH MEATBALLS, IKEA, OR THE FEAST OF ST. LUCIA!
[04:32:20] <chromas> tds
[04:33:13] <AzumaHazuki> Sulla, a monolithic "white culture" does. Not. Exist. Not 100 years ago, several of the groups our modern neo-Nazis would lump together as "white" were at each others' throats and would slit anyone else's who suggested they were essentially the same
[04:33:27] <Sulla> Already agreed it didn't above
[04:34:16] <AzumaHazuki> Then drop that "oh the poor white supremacists are just upset because their specific national and ethnic cultures are being dumped on." That's not true.
[04:34:37] <chromas> To be fair, that's not at all what he said or implied
[04:34:49] <AzumaHazuki> 23:29 < Sulla> The insane ones on the right are over reacting because they are being told that any interest in their past is wrong
[04:35:01] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, it kind of is :/
[04:35:23] <chromas> oh you're correct. Everyone on the right is a white supremacist.
[04:35:36] <AzumaHazuki> oh shut up with that bullshit
[04:35:42] <AzumaHazuki> that's a strawman and you know very well it is
[04:36:04] <Sulla> >Seems like something I would agree on
[04:36:07] <Sulla> Was what I meant
[04:36:46] <Sulla> White supremacy doesn't make sense because as soon as they aren't arguing about people on the outside they are arguing about the Irish or the poles
[04:37:04] <AzumaHazuki> Yeah, that's a point i brought up in my first answer to that guy
[04:37:13] <Sulla> Yeah it was good
[04:37:25] <AzumaHazuki> and you know what? he more or less dodged it completely, though he did say his version of "white" included "Northern Europeans" only
[04:38:00] <AzumaHazuki> he didn't want to use the code word "Nordics" or "Aryans" because that would give the game away too fast
[04:38:32] <chromas> Would you say he's on a...Nordic track?
[04:38:53] <AzumaHazuki> the thought had crossed my mind, yes
[04:39:10] <AzumaHazuki> :|
[04:40:54] <AzumaHazuki> look, janrinok told me it's up to the community to police the discussion. problem is, we don't really have the tools to, a normal person is never going to outlast a fanatic, we have no defense against a flash mob, and the powers that be don't seem to givea shit. this place is immunocompromised and just waiting to be assimilated
[05:22:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, if you mean we're not going to clamp down on anyone you disagree with, you're correct. it's every human's innate right to be as bloody stupid and wrong as they care to be. the only thing we're after is giving every individual the same size soapbox.
[05:22:50] <AzumaHazuki> Aaaaahahahahaha, riiiight.
[05:23:19] <AzumaHazuki> in the event you're serious, let me point out that your problem is an inability to think more than one or two moves ahead
[05:24:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, i think twelve or so. all roads that involve controlling thought lead nowhere good. not ever.
[05:24:11] <AzumaHazuki> in particular, there is no real limit on AC posting, no limits on posts from a single IP or IP hash (though I know why), and the aforementioned problem of normal people never being able to beat a fanatic head on
[05:24:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> actually there is a limit on posting from an ip. it's just not a terribly strict one.
[05:24:57] <AzumaHazuki> your idea sounds good on the surface of it, but think a little more like the hard-boiled bastard we all know you to be: where are the logical errors and exploits in this system?
[05:25:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh there are plenty. i won't go into details because that would make me have to fix them all next week instead of possibly never.
[05:26:07] <AzumaHazuki> and shove that "hurr hurr we're not gonna silence people who disagree with you" strawman up your ass sideways. i am not calling for censorship of people who i disagree with; i'm pointing out that this place is becoming a cesspool and the admins are letting it happen
[05:26:25] <AzumaHazuki> we are going to get the feds up our asses one of these days.
[05:26:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> if something hasn't been exploited, there's no need to implement stronger controls. that's exercising power for the sake of exercising power.
[05:27:06] <AzumaHazuki> that is surprisingly naive of you. "who would have peace, must prepare for war." you know better than that when you code, or at least i damn sure hope you do
[05:27:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> you say cesspool, i say people who say things you don't like. we're both talking about the same thing.
[05:27:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh i'm prepared enough.
[05:28:08] <AzumaHazuki> no, we are not, Uzzard. and your continued insistence that we are is making me a lot less likely to trust your judgment
[05:28:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> but much like you don't put razor wire and machine gun nests around your home to deter salesmen, you don't go controlling things that aren't being abused.
[05:28:42] <AzumaHazuki> there are plenty of things i disagree with there. that's normal. you don't see me, for example, railing against people who like systemd and calling for THEM to be banned
[05:29:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're never going to trust my judgment. you see many people who simply disagree with you as evil and subhuman. i don't. neither of us are going to change.
[05:29:28] <AzumaHazuki> Depends on what they disagree over
[05:29:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> exactly
[05:29:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> it doesn't with me
[05:29:49] <AzumaHazuki> if they disagree that, for example, putting kids in concentration camps is evil...then yes, i believe they have relinquished their human card. you don't.
[05:29:56] <AzumaHazuki> and that should scare the shit out of any rational person
[05:30:29] <AzumaHazuki> don't fucking try and pretend I'm down on your level, shitbird
[05:30:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> nope. if you don't protect the scoundrels you're doing nothing but queueing up to be called a scoundrel yourself.
[05:30:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're not on my level. you're much worse. you are in fact horribly evil.
[05:31:07] <AzumaHazuki> you can "protect the scoundrels" without letting them recruit for their cause. and don't you even start with that shit, no one with three sparking neurons buys it
[05:31:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, you can not.
[05:31:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> you can either think you are qualified to control the thoughts others are allowed to think or you can realize that is epic hubris.
[05:32:00] <AzumaHazuki> if i were "horribly evil," Uzzard, we would not be having this conversation. You would be dead. If I actually hated you, rather than were just disgusted with you, you would be dead. You are such a fragile fucking whiny drama queen
[05:32:27] <AzumaHazuki> disagreement is not hatred, not even at 90 dB
[05:32:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> you keep threatening me like that. do you think it scares me?
[05:32:41] <AzumaHazuki> ...that's not a threat, you dumb bastard
[05:32:54] <AzumaHazuki> it's the opposite of a threat. I am *not* evil and I don't actually hate you
[05:33:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> again, you can either think you are qualified to control the thoughts others are allowed to think or you can realize that is epic hubris.
[05:33:24] <esainane> "The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all." -- H.L.Mencken
[05:33:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> you've long since chosen the former.
[05:33:50] <AzumaHazuki> fuck you, no i have not. people can think whatever they want. they aren't allowed to start goddamn race wars with what they think
[05:33:56] <AzumaHazuki> the projection is incredible
[05:34:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> really? tell that to the democrats. they've been doing it for decades.
[05:34:36] <AzumaHazuki> ...aaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaha! Yeah, fuck them, with their integration and their labor laws and all that fascist horseshit
[05:34:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> and while i may speak out against progressive racism, i will not say they should be silenced.
[05:35:07] <AzumaHazuki> the "progressives" are not attempting to start a race war, dipshit
[05:35:21] <AzumaHazuki> you don't know when to shut up and stop shooting yourself in the foot, do you?
[05:35:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> my entire ass. what do you think identity politics is all about?
[05:35:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> support us because $foo is keeping you down!
[05:35:52] <AzumaHazuki> "identity politics" itself is a strawman. you do not marginalize entire groups based on skin color or language or religion and then get to act surprise when they organize along those lines
[05:36:14] <AzumaHazuki> and by that definition, white supremacy is the textbook definition of identity politics. hell, one group is even called "Christian IDENTITY"
[05:36:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> i don't marginalize anyone. nearly nobody does.
[05:36:35] <AzumaHazuki> not speaking of you specifically, and you (specifically) know that
[05:36:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes, it is. so is black lives matter.
[05:37:08] <AzumaHazuki> like i said before: don't be surprised when a group historically marginalized and lumped together starts organizing along those lines
[05:37:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> so is every last democratic politician and in fact any politician who speaks to people according to their skin color instead of as americans.
[05:37:41] <AzumaHazuki> identity politics is the antithesis to the thesis of segregation. you don't want identity politics, fix the underlying causes
[05:38:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> historically marginilized = their grandparents or farther back had it shitty so they should be handed life on a silver platter instead of having to go through the pains everyone else does?
[05:38:30] <AzumaHazuki> no, you sheltered fucking prick. marginalized TODAY as well
[05:38:57] <AzumaHazuki> and they're not calling for "life on a silver platter" either. that's a strawman and everyone knows it
[05:39:07] <AzumaHazuki> you are fucking diseased, Uzzard.
[05:39:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> bullshit. the only ones keeping races down today are the politicians claiming to help them.
[05:39:25] <AzumaHazuki> Bingo! That's my entire card filled out!
[05:39:35] <AzumaHazuki> the "democrats run the plantation" space was the last one i needed
[05:39:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> they tell them failure is their lot in life unless they vote $party
[05:39:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> and they believe it. and it becomes true.
[05:39:54] <AzumaHazuki> ...sounds a lot like what the GOP tells white folks, yeah
[05:40:03] <AzumaHazuki> specifically the rural poor
[05:40:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> sometimes even the GOP is right
[05:40:23] <AzumaHazuki> so it's okay when the GOP does it?
[05:40:53] <AzumaHazuki> yeah you kinda backed yourself into a corner there, shitbird
[05:41:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> shit no. the GOP don't invoke whiteness. they never have really. that was always a democrat thing.
[05:41:13] <AzumaHazuki> are you trying to make me die of laughter?
[05:41:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, how many former klan members are in the gop vs how many in the dnc?
[05:41:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> oopsie
[05:41:52] <AzumaHazuki> who cares? the Dems and the GOP traded places with the Southern Strategy was implemented
[05:42:01] <AzumaHazuki> you don't get to pretend it's still 1955
[05:42:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> i do get to recognize former klan members in the dnc though
[05:42:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> democrats then. klan members then. democrats now.
[05:42:47] <AzumaHazuki> again: you don't get to pretend it's still 1955
[05:43:01] <AzumaHazuki> and Byrd or Bird or whoever can go fuck himself
[05:43:08] <AzumaHazuki> he'll fry in hellfire with the rest of them
[05:43:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> good start, now go one by one until you're not voting D anymore.
[05:43:56] <AzumaHazuki> not how it works. there are still some redeemable people in that party, unlike the GOP since, say, 1981
[05:44:12] <AzumaHazuki> i'd still rather see them all hang, with the possible exception of Sanders, of course...
[05:44:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> there are no redeemable politicians.
[05:44:26] <AzumaHazuki> None? Anywhere? On any level? Not one?
[05:44:35] <AzumaHazuki> careful with those hasty generalizations
[05:44:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> sanders? the millionaire socialist who got that way on government wages?
[05:44:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, there are probably three then. all of whom haven't been in office quite a year.
[05:45:09] <AzumaHazuki> He's still Jesus Christ compared to the entire GOP and half the Democrats, notably, the corporate half
[05:45:20] <AzumaHazuki> ...and of course, we all know what they did to the last socialist jew who said be good to the poor
[05:45:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> he's scamming you and you're blinding yourself to it.
[05:45:41] <AzumaHazuki> Who says I'm going to vote Sanders?
[05:45:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> not i
[05:45:55] <AzumaHazuki> i'm gonna friggin' write in Sailor Moon on the 2020 ballot at this rate
[05:46:23] <AzumaHazuki> because she at least makes a capable ruler of Crystal Tokyo in the 3000s according to the comic book continuity
[05:46:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> jesus wasn't a socialist. he said take care of folks who need it but he didn't say take from others to do it.
[05:46:41] <AzumaHazuki> bingo again! he didn't say how or how not to do it, he said to do it
[05:46:57] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Boeing’s Own Test Pilots Lacked Key Details Of 737 Max Flight-Control System - http://sylnt.us - no-need-to-no
[05:47:01] <AzumaHazuki> and, er, you may wanna look into how exactly the Essenes and the Apostolic Christians actually lived...
[05:47:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> how they voluntarily lived you mean?
[05:47:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's a damned important word there.
[05:47:40] -!- Fnord666_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[05:47:52] <AzumaHazuki> we've had this discussion before: free will decreases as group size increases
[05:48:03] <AzumaHazuki> one aspect of how they lived was "in small, close-knit communities"
[05:48:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> and you're still wrong. there is no magic number of people that makes taking what is not yours moral.
[05:48:32] <AzumaHazuki> how do you define what is yours, and who protects that right?
[05:49:16] <AzumaHazuki> and more importantly, is it equally true in all cases of all possessions at all times that it is a greater moral good for you to have it than that someone else not suffer past a certain point?
[05:49:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> i define what is mine. i protect that right. i'm also willing to chip in for a government to lend a hand there. evil but less so than the alternative.
[05:49:32] <AzumaHazuki> who made you God?
[05:49:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's the exact wrong question.
[05:49:54] <AzumaHazuki> the flip side of you saying that government is made of individuals and has no right to decide is that individuals are exactly as unworthy
[05:50:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> in a perfect world, yes. we don't live in one though, so necessary evils are going to have to happen. they should be minimized as much as possible though.
[05:50:41] <AzumaHazuki> not to mention you're implicitly saying that if you can't protect what you decide if yours, you deserve to lose it
[05:51:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, i'm not. you're reading that in so you can have something to argue with.
[05:51:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> i am saying it's my responsibility though.
[05:51:28] <AzumaHazuki> it's as clear as day. you say you protect it, no one else. what happens if you're up against someone stronger who wants your possessions?
[05:51:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> clue in darlin. see above re necessary evils. read the words.
[05:52:03] <AzumaHazuki> who decides which evils are necessary? :)
[05:52:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> logic primarily.
[05:52:32] <AzumaHazuki> LOL
[05:52:43] <AzumaHazuki> not even you believe that. and i said who, not what
[05:52:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> like if you don't have a military to keep your government unconquered, you don't get to keep that government.
[05:53:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> well who is these elected fuckwads up in DC. not a great system but any other is going to be worse.
[05:53:52] <AzumaHazuki> okay, that's fairly obviously true. but, in the words of bad-voice-acting-dubbed Zero from Megaman X4, "WHATAMIFIGHTINGFORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAARRRRGH?!"
[05:54:35] <AzumaHazuki> what point is there in keeping a government going, a society going, if it's hell to live in?
[05:55:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's really all the feds need to be doing though, and keeping things like tariffs between north and south carolina from becoming an issue.
[05:55:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's only hell to live in if you value comfort over liberty.
[05:55:22] <AzumaHazuki> so, no regulations about keeping radium out of the toothpaste and rat feces out of the sausage...?
[05:55:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> on a federal level? only if state lines are crossed.
[05:55:50] <AzumaHazuki> because Mammon forbid we infringe on someone's LIBERTY to make maximum profit
[05:56:00] <AzumaHazuki> this is where we begin to part ways
[05:56:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> poison the mississippi in missouri, it affects the folks down in louisana
[05:56:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> cause the river crosses state lines
[05:56:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> poison any are and who knows where the hell it's going
[05:56:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> s/are/air/
[05:56:48] <AzumaHazuki> okay, but you have no issue with everyone in one town in, say, South Carolina, getting sick because of ratshit sausages as long as they're not being shipped to Tennessee?
[05:57:15] <AzumaHazuki> what is it about the knockon effects of air pollution you get but foodborne illness you don't?
[05:57:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> nope. that's a SC problem. if they don't like it, they know how to fix it.
[05:57:44] <AzumaHazuki> suppose they can't? suppose some greedhead controls enough of the food supply in that one town that everyone's exposed?
[05:57:54] <AzumaHazuki> why should that one town be fucked?
[05:57:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> well you said they weren't being shipped to tn. that cuts out the feds.
[05:58:23] <AzumaHazuki> this is precisely what I mean about "moral priority inversion bugs." You are putting ideology over people.
[05:58:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> they don't have any reason to be fucked. they can leave.
[05:58:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, i am putting people over ideology.
[05:58:49] <AzumaHazuki> no, they cannot. the very poorest would not be able to. they'd have nowhere to go and no means to leave anyway
[05:58:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> all people, not just the ones i like.
[05:58:58] <AzumaHazuki> horse. shit.
[05:59:12] <AzumaHazuki> your criteria are "crosses state lines or not." That has shit-all to do with people
[05:59:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> the very poorest can also move. i have been the very poorest several times and moved during.
[05:59:43] <AzumaHazuki> you are one person. not all of them can. do not generalize
[06:00:11] <AzumaHazuki> look, we all know you're full of shit. i'm only taking you apart bit by bit so anyone following this mud wrestling match can see your essential malfunction, the crux of your disease
[06:00:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, it has very much to do with people. you break it apart into smaller areas of regulation so that if one gets fucked up and not to your liking, you can leave and go to another.
[06:00:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> no single point of failure
[06:00:37] <AzumaHazuki> and what good does that do for the people who were victimized? it's a single point of failure for them!
[06:00:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're not remotely taking me apart. i'm answering everything you ask.
[06:01:06] <AzumaHazuki> you're replying, yes...but you're not actually answering
[06:01:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> victimized? fuck that. that's a pussy word.
[06:01:15] <AzumaHazuki> this is like probing an open wound with a stick...
[06:01:27] <AzumaHazuki> aha, and there it is, the nub of your issue
[06:01:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's teaching people not to take responsibility for their own lives.
[06:01:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's teaching them daddy government will make it all better.
[06:02:04] <AzumaHazuki> so how about, for example, the people in the Tuskeegee Study? you know, the ones who were infected with syphilis without their consent?
[06:02:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> pretty fucked up, what about it?
[06:02:21] <AzumaHazuki> tell me they were not "victimized." I don't give a fuck if the word hurts your feelings, it is the one that fits
[06:02:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> victimhood is a choice.
[06:03:00] <AzumaHazuki> ...they lacked the informed consent to make that choice, Uzzard, that is the entire fucking point
[06:03:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> being fucked over may not be but deciding to be a victim after you have been most certainly is.
[06:03:33] <AzumaHazuki> this proves it. all this shit you're talking is nothing more than your attempt to excuse your complete lack of morals and humanity
[06:03:43] <AzumaHazuki> now you're backpedaling and trying to mince words
[06:03:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're not even remotely listening, are you?
[06:03:53] <AzumaHazuki> oh, i'm listening all right
[06:03:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, you're not.
[06:04:04] <AzumaHazuki> i hear every word loud and clear, including the ones you yourself don't realize you're saying
[06:04:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> victimhood is the difference between embracing despair and taking responsibility for yourself going forward.
[06:05:04] <AzumaHazuki> ant-buggering, self-serving horseshit
[06:05:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> if you get fucked over you either cry and join a support group or you solve the problem and make the bastards pay.
[06:05:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> one is a victim, the other isn't.
[06:05:52] <AzumaHazuki> and if you cannot "make the bastards pay?" On account of, for example, they own the entire system?
[06:06:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> then you're not trying hard enough. there's always a way.
[06:06:28] <AzumaHazuki> you lack imagination, to say nothing of basic human decency
[06:06:45] <AzumaHazuki> that is a bare naked assertion and it takes a third grader 10 seconds to think of scenarios in which there is not, in fact, a way
[06:06:53] <AzumaHazuki> God, you're full of shit
[06:06:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm a font of human decency compared to you. you think half the world is sub-human.
[06:07:26] <AzumaHazuki> Don't quit your day job for psychoanalysis. I think a bunch of individual people are subhuman
[06:07:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, you think everyone in the nation except you is sub-human for starters.
[06:07:51] <AzumaHazuki> whereas you, by your policies, implicitly believe ANYONE who suffers and can't avenge themselves (how primitive!) deserves it. THAT is thinking of people subhuman
[06:07:58] <AzumaHazuki> ...what the fuck?
[06:08:11] <AzumaHazuki> now you're just butthurt and spewing worse-than-strawmen
[06:08:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> you say so every time you declare "you aren't evolved enough to properly allocate your assets, so i'm going to take them and do it for you".
[06:08:43] <AzumaHazuki> where did the term "evolved enough" come into it? stop putting words in other peoples' mouths
[06:09:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> pick whatever words you like. you believe they are either mentally or morally less than you and need your guidance.
[06:09:23] <AzumaHazuki> you've shown yourself to be a complete moral nullity with the last 10 minutes of conversation or so, to begin with. Look what you were reduced to. revenge. "fuck you, got mine." "come and take it from me."
[06:09:44] <AzumaHazuki> you are trying to throw your own humanity away. this is how apes act
[06:09:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh please. you always fall back to that and it's never true. get a new line.
[06:09:56] <AzumaHazuki> you said it yourself
[06:10:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> we ARE apes.
[06:10:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, i did not.
[06:10:25] <AzumaHazuki> your worldview and your beliefs come down to you against the world, zero sum, everyone against everyone else. that is "fuck you got mine," "come and take it from me"
[06:10:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> never once have i said fuck you, got mine unless quoting you.
[06:10:54] <AzumaHazuki> you don't have to say the literal words to be saying the concept, you autistic-screeching bawbag
[06:11:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, they do not. they come down to help others as best you can but don't let azuma take your shit and do it how she thinks it should be done.
[06:11:26] <AzumaHazuki> oh, you fear me? :) you think i'm ever going to come and "take your shit?"
[06:11:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're too bloody stupid to grok that though.
[06:11:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> you do every time you vote for a tax supporter, yes.
[06:11:54] <AzumaHazuki> that's what you think you're saying. that's how you justify it. at the end of the day, your worldview boils down to chimp warfare
[06:12:10] <AzumaHazuki> ohhhh lordy, here comes the crazy! alllll taxes are theft right? you've said that before!
[06:12:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, it boils down to me thinking human beings should be in charge of their own lives instead of me making their choices for them. you disagree.
[06:13:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> and i've logically proven it before. you have never been able to refute it.
[06:13:05] <AzumaHazuki> oh, I agree YOU shouldn't be making the choices. jesus fuck we'd end up passing the conch in a month
[06:13:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> you always change the subject.
[06:13:36] <AzumaHazuki> Soooo, if "<+TheMightyBuzzard> you do every time you vote for a tax supporter, yes." then how do you propose to fund the "necessary evils" you mentioned?
[06:13:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes, but you have the hubris to think you should.
[06:13:56] <AzumaHazuki> wait, what? no, I just want to see basic common sense about human nature followed. i have no designs on public office
[06:13:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's why they're necessary 'evils"
[06:14:07] <chromas> hilarious turn of phrase, though, "passing the conch"
[06:14:28] <AzumaHazuki> his worldview is Lord of the Flies, and he thinks he's Johnny instead of Piggy
[06:14:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> public office isn't required. voting for someone who implements authoritarian policies is all that's necessary
[06:14:42] <AzumaHazuki> these gibbertarian dickheads always think they're the smartest guy in the room...
[06:14:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> i am the smartest guy in the room.
[06:14:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> unless NCommander's here
[06:15:00] <AzumaHazuki> my hypothesis is they think they're being held back by the rest of society
[06:15:16] * NCommander appears in a poof of smoke
[06:15:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, i just got dumber
[06:15:26] <AzumaHazuki> hilarious, that idea, from a guy whose entire lifestyle is based around fishing, masturbation, and roommates
[06:15:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> relatively
[06:15:31] * TheMightyBuzzard waves at the boss
[06:15:37] * NCommander throws a potion of gain ability at TheMightyBuzzard
[06:16:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, that's because you never actually listen to us. you might read the words but only so you can think up an argument.
[06:16:32] <AzumaHazuki> face it, Uzzard, you got mad and had a few Freudian slips there, and revealed to us all that you basically see the human race as a bunch of chimpanzees. your worldview is even worse than zero sum
[06:16:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> nope, still not mad.
[06:17:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> internet arguments are either fun or not had.
[06:17:06] <AzumaHazuki> and there's an undercurrent of teenage angst in there too, i can't help but notice. lots of "fuck you i won't do what you say"
[06:17:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> i see the human race as humans. you see them as pawns.
[06:17:23] <AzumaHazuki> admit it, you think civilization's constraints are holding you back from being your best, don't you?
[06:17:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> sheep if you prefer.
[06:17:43] <AzumaHazuki> you think you'd be lord of all creation if it weren't for taxes
[06:17:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, i just think well-meaning asshats like you have done the most damage throughout the history of the world.
[06:18:06] <AzumaHazuki> then you have never truly studied history
[06:18:43] <AzumaHazuki> and, Uzzard, I'm practically a hermit. i'm a left libertarian in exile. i also think the government should do the minimum...it's just that "the minimum"is a hell of a lot for a complex society
[06:19:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> like i have every faith marx meant well but he created an enormous force for evil
[06:19:28] <chromas> systemd is my government. Control everything
[06:19:32] <AzumaHazuki> Marx was a natural born critic, and this is something i said upon reading him in 8th grade. that means he points out the issues but for fuck's sake don't ask for his advice
[06:19:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's more or less accurate
[06:19:57] <AzumaHazuki> Marx commits the same fallacy you do but from the other side: he doesn't take human nature into account
[06:20:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> you don't either. you just try to get away with it by playing his song more softly.
[06:20:50] <AzumaHazuki> I am no Marxist, Uzzard.
[06:20:54] <AzumaHazuki> his ideas cannot work
[06:21:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> shades of gray
[06:21:12] <AzumaHazuki> we have one chance, ONE, and that is to get post-scarcity tech going and widely available. we all die otherwise
[06:21:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> then we all die.
[06:21:27] <AzumaHazuki> there is no solution to this problem. the Gordian knot can only be cut, not untied
[06:21:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> post-scarcity will not happen in your lifetime or mine.
[06:22:05] <AzumaHazuki> it could. and it would but for greedheads and perverts and sociopaths who just want to watch the world burn
[06:22:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> see, that's your main problem. you think you know the future.
[06:22:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, it physically could not.
[06:22:37] <AzumaHazuki> we have had most of the pieces since the 70s or before you know. oak ridge had a working thorium reactor. we have amazing solar panels. we have concentrating solar
[06:22:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, we have not.
[06:23:10] <AzumaHazuki> er, yes we have...? at this rate China's going to beat us to most of this out of sheer necessity of 1.5 billion mouths to feed
[06:23:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> green energy is not post-scarcity. post-scarcity is being able to get whatever you want whenever you want.
[06:23:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> without exchange.
[06:23:29] <AzumaHazuki> ah, the Nirvana fallacy again.
[06:23:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, the webster's fallacy
[06:23:54] <AzumaHazuki> fine, call it the first step to post-scarcity then: getting power, water, and basic food decoupled from the scarcity paradigm
[06:24:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> if you mean something other than actual post-scarcity, say what you mean.
[06:24:24] <AzumaHazuki> well i don't mean star trek replicators
[06:24:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> fair nuff. power we could do. the other two we couldn't.
[06:24:52] <AzumaHazuki> we so could. couple power with desalinization and bam, there's the water solved. crops are harder, especially because the US's monoculture fucking sucks
[06:25:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> i was gonna say "food don't grown on trees, you know" but you don't appreciate my humor.
[06:25:20] <AzumaHazuki> we need more and smaller farms. we need people not to think of smallhold as a dishonorable life choice.
[06:25:25] <AzumaHazuki> and we need to adapt to changing conditions
[06:25:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> we don't have the ability to create that much energy. we can remove scarcity but we can't create wealth
[06:25:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> maybe a while from now but not now.
[06:26:01] <AzumaHazuki> define "wealth." gold means nothing to a starving man on a desert island
[06:26:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> abundance above and beyond what people need to live in most developed societies
[06:26:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> of energy
[06:27:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> we can get a lot of it cranking out but it's never going to be infinite, so we can't act like it is.
[06:27:08] <AzumaHazuki> some of that is going to have to go. no one needs a closet full of diamond rings
[06:27:13] <AzumaHazuki> we need to prioritize
[06:27:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> why not?
[06:27:35] <AzumaHazuki> because by definition, crystalline carbon is not a biological need. we cannot eat it, for example
[06:27:49] <AzumaHazuki> and with more than 10, one runs out of fingers
[06:27:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> and yet birds still steal shiny things
[06:28:02] <AzumaHazuki> yes, because they're birds :v
[06:28:29] <AzumaHazuki> we need to prioritize. we can get replicators going AFTER we get the power problem solved
[06:28:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> point being, there's no reason to not have them if you can afford them and want them.
[06:28:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, we can't. they're an insanely long way down the road.
[06:28:54] <AzumaHazuki> not so. diamonds in partcular are a cartel good and soaked in blood
[06:29:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> unless they're grown in a lab for a tenth or less the cost.
[06:29:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> you don't have to buy the marketing
[06:29:29] <AzumaHazuki> maybe the best way to think of this is, we should be looking to move the goods and services with the least-elastic demand off the scarcity paradigm first
[06:29:53] <AzumaHazuki> the knock-on benefits alone will save billions if not trillions.
[06:30:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> right but you've got a problem there.
[06:30:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> none of it is truly post-scarcity still.
[06:30:27] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, people like you who would rather commit harakiri with a rusty butterknife than let that kind of thing happen is the problem...
[06:30:39] <AzumaHazuki> and, again, post-scarcity does not mean infinite and does not mean ignoring thermodynamics
[06:30:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> people still have to preform work. they will want paid for it until their replicator ships.
[06:31:12] <AzumaHazuki> they will have much more motivation and ability to do their work if they are not facing existential threats, do you get it?
[06:31:21] <AzumaHazuki> that's the knock-on effect i'm speaking of
[06:31:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> farmers in particular. you cannot make that an inexpensive endeavor.
[06:31:46] <AzumaHazuki> no, but you can make it so one bad year doesn't ruin the farmer
[06:31:55] <chromas> They could replace illegal Mexicans with onion-picking robots
[06:32:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> by nationalizing the industry?
[06:32:30] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, about that...you could solve most of the illegal immigration issue yesterday by imposing death-penalty-equivalent fines on companies caught hiring or using them
[06:32:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> you don't actually know any farmers, do you? they'd all quit. nearly to a man.
[06:33:01] <AzumaHazuki> neither party will because both parties benefit from the suffering of illegals abroad and here
[06:33:09] * chromas nods
[06:33:32] <AzumaHazuki> repubs love slave labor, dems are cynically trying to grow a voting bloc (and some of them also love slave labor)
[06:33:55] <chromas> Yeah, spanking the illegal employers would be much cheaper and more effective than a dumbass wall
[06:34:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> independent farmers don't do an incredibly difficult and risky job rather than selling out to corporate and then sell out to uncle sam.
[06:34:36] <AzumaHazuki> indeed. and both corporate and uncle sam have made smallholders' lives hell
[06:34:46] <AzumaHazuki> granted, mostly because corporate has bought out large chunks of uncle sam
[06:35:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> eh, to some degree. it was always a damned hard and risky job though.
[06:35:49] <AzumaHazuki> i took a lot of ribbing for being interested in farming and agriculture and shop class back in NYC. people thought it was weird. there is some truth to the "city slicker" stereotype
[06:36:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup. less in the south, midwest, and southwest but it definitely exists even there.
[06:36:53] <AzumaHazuki> i take a Taoist approach to this: the "ten thousand things" are ephemeral. too many people are chasing illusions
[06:37:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> i took music instead of gym. that's where all the girls were and i'd rather look at them than naked guys in a locker room.
[06:38:15] <chromas> Sing us a song, you're the Buzzard man
[06:38:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> can't carry a tune in a bucket
[06:38:56] <chromas> That's why Jesus invented Melodyne
[06:39:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> it took less than a week for me to get sent to the teacher's office to listen to the radio and do my other homework.
[06:39:54] <AzumaHazuki> meh. i got stuck making screechyfart sounds on a cello in seventh grade regardless
[06:40:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> i can technically play guitar. by which i mean if i try to learn a song on a guitar, i can learn it. i don't enjoy it or do it more than once a year though.
[06:40:56] <chromas> Cello, eh
[06:41:06] * chromas sends AzumaHazuki those 8 magical notes
[06:41:26] <AzumaHazuki> 8? there's only 7 in a scale...
[06:41:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> see, you should have been a fan of The Who then. little lighter fluid, smashy smashy, sweet grand finale that is rather more of a finale than expected
[06:42:13] <chromas> there should be 10. when is metric coming to music?
[06:42:34] <AzumaHazuki> pretty much never, since harmonic relationships are based on powers of 2 from what i can tell
[06:43:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> they tried metric time for a very short but confusing amount of time back in the day in france
[06:43:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt 4DuVfncOvvQ
[06:43:51] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com
[06:44:19] <chromas> Why doesn't MrPlow give the title? It's available in the api
[06:44:22] <chromas> #smake TheMightyBuzzard
[06:44:22] * MrPlow smakes TheMightyBuzzard upside the head with foo"); drop table smakes;
[06:44:27] * TheMightyBuzzard shurgs
[06:44:36] <chromas> lazy mercurial
[06:44:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> cause other bots already did that for urls
[06:44:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> and he says a url
[06:45:02] <AzumaHazuki> i'm too deaf to get music theory but i get the physics and math of it rather well. still rankles, having siblings with musical talent and perfect hearing
[06:45:07] <chromas> =yt 4DuVfncOvvQ
[06:45:08] <upstart> https://youtube.com - "Do-Re-Mi" (beer version) - Lauren Molina (1:18)
[06:45:13] <AzumaHazuki> ugh, why did i and only i have to be born this way?
[06:46:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> i can kinda get musical theory but it bores me. kinda like you don't want to be your new girlfriend's obgyn
[06:46:08] <chromas> You'll just have to make all your tunes on the computer. Hiyo Python, Away!
[06:46:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> kills the magic
[06:46:19] <AzumaHazuki> i wouldn't mind being my girlfriend's obgyn
[06:46:30] <chromas> AzumaphexTwin
[06:46:31] <AzumaHazuki> though, not like either of us are going to be pregnant, sooooo
[06:47:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> right but it still requires a bit more doctor visits than the alternative.
[06:47:17] <AzumaHazuki> but yeah...regarding music i'm a fan of 8 bit stuff, because the waves are simple and i know how to make them. Squares are the sum of an infinite series of odd harmonics of sine waves for example
[06:47:43] <AzumaHazuki> well...usually up to the 7th or 9th harmonic, and some filtering to deal with the weird ringing overshoots at the boundaries
[06:48:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> i only really ever cared about it enough to build both hardware and software 30Hz ring mods
[06:48:44] <AzumaHazuki> i could go on about the NES and Gameboy sound chips for ages :3 and the SNES's SPC700, which is seriously like alien technology
[06:49:02] <AzumaHazuki> not so much about the Genesis. I know it's a Yamaha YM2612 but not how FM synths work
[06:49:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> kids got a kick out of sounding like a dalek
[06:49:37] <chromas> daleks are the jar jar of dr who
[06:50:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> you know you're going to hell for that, right?
[06:50:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~weather hell
[06:50:31] <exec> 10Washington, DC - currently 66°F, light rain showers, wind E at 3 mph, humidity 93% - Saturday showers (63°F:75°F), Sunday rain (55°F:66°F), Monday partly cloudy (57°F:75°F), Tuesday sunny (58°F:82°F)
[06:50:35] <chromas> Well, they probably don't step in shit too often, but just kick it over and it's done
[06:51:03] <AzumaHazuki> stairs are...problematic, too
[06:51:11] <chromas> good point
[06:51:17] <chromas> daleks are the cl4p-tp of dr who
[06:52:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> blarg. AzumaHazuki's evil plan to keep me up way past bedtime succeeded. curse you, red baron!
[06:53:02] <AzumaHazuki> i confirmed what i needed to know...
[06:54:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, i expect you did. the problem is that's what you set out to do instead of trying to receive the meaning i'm trying to impart.
[06:55:20] <AzumaHazuki> oh, i got the meaning ages ago. i wanted to see exactly where the nub or crux was
[06:55:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> freedom. it's always been freedom.
[06:55:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> not for me, for everyone.
[06:56:06] <AzumaHazuki> it's always been your naive idea of what you think freedom is and what you think will ensure it
[06:56:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, you just think comfort also qualifies as freedom.
[06:56:38] <AzumaHazuki> no, i think lack of essentials makes one not free
[06:56:43] <AzumaHazuki> there is a tremendous difference
[06:56:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're wrong
[06:57:02] <AzumaHazuki> free to starve, to die of exposure, to catch whatever awful disease you want...goodie
[06:57:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> free to make your own choices and live with the consequences
[06:57:25] <AzumaHazuki> you cannot tell me someone is free to pursue their goals when they can't feed themselves
[06:57:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes, yes i can
[06:57:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> because i have
[06:57:39] <AzumaHazuki> okay, you can, but you're wrong
[06:57:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> and i still prefer the freedom
[06:57:57] <AzumaHazuki> let's see how much you would in extremis...
[06:58:08] <AzumaHazuki> something tells me you wouldn't when you're right on the edge of death
[06:58:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> i signed up to get shot at for people's that i don't even like much. it matters a bit to me.
[06:58:59] <AzumaHazuki> ironic, isn't it? that you would cling to a worldview that undermines the freedom you risked your life for...
[06:59:16] <AzumaHazuki> there are a distressing number of people like you though
[06:59:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> you keep trying to say that but you've never made an argument i haven't shot down
[06:59:39] <AzumaHazuki> in your own mind, yes
[07:00:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> to use a word of my childhood, duh
[07:00:07] <AzumaHazuki> you simply refuse to understand that "freedom" is nothing without the ability to exercise it
[07:00:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> my mind is the only one i'm in charge of
[07:00:14] <AzumaHazuki> this is not a new concept
[07:00:26] <AzumaHazuki> you're not keeping it very consistent or tidy
[07:01:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> you help there. i have to spell out things that i never bothered even putting into words since they were so blindingly obvious
[07:01:25] * TheMightyBuzzard tips hat
[07:01:43] <AzumaHazuki> 0/10
[07:01:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> tip of thanks. sincere.
[07:01:58] <AzumaHazuki> wrong *and* an asshole *and* bad at Brave Sir Robin'ing his way away
[07:02:27] <AzumaHazuki> face it, Uzzard, you're willfully wrong. you refuse to understand this simple concept because it would force you to remake your entire worldview
[07:02:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> my arguments and ability to articulate them has improved quite a bit from having to turn the understood into the laid out here.
[07:02:54] <AzumaHazuki> ...keep telling yourself that
[07:02:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, it is a value judgment.
[07:03:09] <AzumaHazuki> and your values are self-destructive of themselves
[07:03:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> i value freedom above everything. yes, even death. yes even quite a lot of suffering.
[07:03:46] <AzumaHazuki> i know, Uzzard. it was obvious from day one. that statement of yours is internally inconsistent though
[07:04:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, you just try to add freedoms that aren't actually freedoms.
[07:04:32] <AzumaHazuki> again: one is not able to exercise that freedom when one is malnourished, sick, etc
[07:04:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> ham without cheese isn't all that great, so cheese must also be ham?
[07:04:44] <AzumaHazuki> there is more freedom and more ability to exercise it when these are not issues
[07:04:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, there is not
[07:05:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> you do not get more freedom by taking it away
[07:05:17] <AzumaHazuki> yes, there is. if you're so malnourished you can't think or walk straight, you have no ability to exercise your supposed freedom
[07:05:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> edge cases like national defense excepted of course
[07:05:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> your freedom got you there unless you allowed someone to infringe on it previously
[07:05:51] <AzumaHazuki> i know you're never going to change, because you have a deeply emotional--not rational--need not to. i don't know why or what caused this, but you've found a local minimum and won't budge
[07:06:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> freedom isn't supposed to be freedom from consequences
[07:06:23] <AzumaHazuki> ...tell that to the starving kid in Africa, the one born to malnourished parents, four years old and stick thin, being stalked by birds of prey
[07:06:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh i've changed plenty over the years. even some since i've been here.
[07:06:28] <AzumaHazuki> sure, the kid made bad choices
[07:06:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> so? it has nothing to do with freedom.
[07:07:07] <AzumaHazuki> sure it does. he's free, right? no government to speak of there. he can do whatever he wants
[07:07:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're saying it's not as great if you don't also have $blah. this is true but it does not make $blah part of freedom.
[07:07:30] <AzumaHazuki> beyond a certain point, some things are necessary co-conditions of freedom
[07:07:45] <AzumaHazuki> if you cannot exercise your freedom, then theoretically having that freedom means jack and shit
[07:07:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> means a lot to me even then
[07:08:16] <AzumaHazuki> okay, but that's...you. and that's naive as hell
[07:08:26] <AzumaHazuki> this is why i say you will only learn when you suffer
[07:08:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, it's ideological instead of practical
[07:08:47] <AzumaHazuki> indeed. ideology above people, dogma over reality. thank you for finally admitting it
[07:09:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> please, you just pulled that out of your ass there.
[07:09:24] <AzumaHazuki> no, you pulled it out of yours, and i'm commenting on how bad it smells
[07:09:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> given that my ideology places people above everything, that's demonstrably false.
[07:09:59] <AzumaHazuki> "ideological instead of practical," you said it yourself. and you are deluding yourself; your ideology places your idea of what freedom is over everything else
[07:10:04] <AzumaHazuki> don't fucking insult our intelligence
[07:10:19] <AzumaHazuki> you're done. go the hell to bed, Uzzard
[07:10:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> my ideology places every other person's humanity and value on par with my own. yours sets your own above all.
[07:10:57] <AzumaHazuki> liar. your ideology places your idea of freedom above everything and everyone else
[07:11:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> my ideology grants every person freedom from me thinking i know better how to live their lives than they do. yours says otherwise.
[07:12:15] <AzumaHazuki> so you're saying your ignorance is as good as someone else's knowledge then
[07:12:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> mine fundamentally says you are equal to me and i shall not treat you otherwise.
[07:12:33] <AzumaHazuki> bullllllll-shit, private pyle
[07:12:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> truth hurt?
[07:13:00] <AzumaHazuki> it says you don't want to be bothered with the consequences of your ideology
[07:13:08] <AzumaHazuki> who do you think you're fooling?
[07:13:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh no. i'm very big on personal responsibility. including my own.
[07:13:48] <AzumaHazuki> like i said...you don't want to be bothered with the consequences of your beliefs. this is your way of trying to absolve yourself of any
[07:14:01] <AzumaHazuki> guess what? it's not working. humans are not islands.
[07:14:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> and my ideology says nothing about consequences because there is no excuse for treating your fellow man as if they're children to be taken care of by your adult self.
[07:14:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> well, unless they in fact are children
[07:14:32] <AzumaHazuki> strawman
[07:14:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, fundamental difference between us
[07:14:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> you think you're better than everyone else
[07:14:48] <AzumaHazuki> you lump anything you don't like under the heading of "treating like a child"
[07:14:54] <AzumaHazuki> which is, ironically, a very childish thing to do
[07:15:27] <AzumaHazuki> and no, i don't. if i thought i were better than everyone else, i'd say so, because it would produce the kind of tremendous ego that would see nothing wrong with saying so
[07:15:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes, you do. it is a requirement to believe so before you can go demanding your will be enacted on others against their own
[07:16:27] <AzumaHazuki> uh, no it's not? at most, the only requirement is a belief that in one specific arena one knows more than whoever one is talking with
[07:16:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> there is no getting around that. one of these days you're going to realize i was right and smake yourself.
[07:16:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> irrelevant
[07:16:45] <AzumaHazuki> no, completely on the nose
[07:16:58] <AzumaHazuki> you're strawmanning again, as you always do when you fuck up
[07:17:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> no. correctness of position has nothing to do with it.
[07:17:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> bullshit, point out the strawman.
[07:17:39] <AzumaHazuki> gladly: you insist that everything is ego-driven here. you inist that someone has to think they are god by comparison to someone else to even think of saying "you know, I think my way is better"
[07:17:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> you have just said that it's okay to take away someone's free will if you believe they're wrong.
[07:17:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> just. said. it.
[07:17:53] <AzumaHazuki> ...what?
[07:18:02] <AzumaHazuki> no one can take away someone else's free will
[07:18:21] <AzumaHazuki> at most someone's possible/available actions can be constrained
[07:18:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> semantics
[07:18:51] <AzumaHazuki> ...and if you think that's the same thing, then you've made my argument that someone who is not able to act on freedom is not in fact free :)
[07:18:54] <AzumaHazuki> nice own goal there
[07:19:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> and yes, you are absolutely ego driven because you do not attempt to convince, you wish to compel.
[07:19:18] <AzumaHazuki> oh, sorry, did i come on too strong? :)
[07:19:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, you just blathered nonsense
[07:19:39] <AzumaHazuki> you're getting desperate, Uzzard
[07:19:46] <AzumaHazuki> you're losing it. you just made my point for me
[07:19:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, you're splitting hairs because you've lost the argument.
[07:20:16] <AzumaHazuki> if what i said before is "just semantics," then you have reiterated my point that someone who is not able to exercise his or her freedom is not actually free, even if he or she technically is
[07:20:26] <AzumaHazuki> you made my point for me. and now the accusations come flying thick and fast
[07:20:34] * TheMightyBuzzard sighs
[07:20:41] <AzumaHazuki> go to bed. you fucked up
[07:20:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> you are so utterly full of shit. you spout things that not even your ass can believe.
[07:20:53] <AzumaHazuki> no one likes a sore loser. you'll feel better after a nap
[07:21:03] <AzumaHazuki> right now you're just throwing a temper tantrum
[07:21:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, just getting bored.
[07:21:22] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, right.
[07:21:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> think i'll go watch more anime.
[07:21:29] <AzumaHazuki> pull the other one, mate, it's got bells on
[07:21:37] <AzumaHazuki> you lost. you fucked up. you kicked it square into your own goal
[07:21:58] <AzumaHazuki> and you think spewing a bunch of insults is going to disguise that
[07:22:15] <AzumaHazuki> what a child you are. i have even less respect for you now than i did before
[07:29:41] * TheMightyBuzzard yawns
[07:29:41] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into TheMightyBuzzard's gaping mouth
[07:29:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> forgot what i came in here in the first place for
[07:30:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> #weather
[07:30:03] <MrPlow> got http response code 401
[07:30:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> stupid bot
[07:30:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~weather
[07:30:16] <exec> 10Humboldt, TN - currently 58°F, cloudy, wind N at 8 mph, humidity 98% - Saturday cloudy (56°F:68°F), Sunday partly cloudy (50°F:73°F), Monday partly cloudy (59°F:80°F), Tuesday partly cloudy (65°F:85°F)
[07:30:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> sweet. fishin weather.
[07:31:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> anyway, nah, i just get bored saying the same thing over and over and over and you still not understanding. lost causes aren't as entertaining.
[07:32:02] <AzumaHazuki> bull~shit
[07:32:10] <AzumaHazuki> run along now, Brave Sir Robin
[07:32:18] <AzumaHazuki> and stick the flounce this time
[07:32:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> newp, seriously. you're wrong. i've repeatedly proven it. and you refuse to even attempt to understand what i say.
[07:33:28] <AzumaHazuki> no, you have not, and in fact you have made my point for me, and your obvious chimpout reaction upon being shown this shows even you know it
[07:33:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> there's only so many times you want to bang your head on something before you realize it's not going to break.
[07:34:03] <AzumaHazuki> i do wonder why i keep trying sometimes honestly
[07:34:07] <chromas> "chimpout"? that's even worse than "gibs"
[07:34:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> sure sure. go ahead thinking that. i won't further interfere with your delusions.
[07:34:29] <AzumaHazuki> looks like he was throwing shit and screaming like a chimpanzee...followed by running off bare-assed
[07:35:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> see above.
[07:35:49] <AzumaHazuki> you act exactly like the local playground bully after getting schooled
[07:36:02] <chromas> Speaking of Robin Hood, has Kevin Costner been in any good movies?
[07:36:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> keep going. this is actually more entertaining than listening to you try to argue.
[07:37:02] <chromas> wow, bullyshaming. Just wow.
[07:37:07] <AzumaHazuki> keep telling yourself that, Uzzard. you are desperately trying to salve your wounded ego. fact is, you made my argument for me
[07:37:12] <AzumaHazuki> and you didn't even realize you did it
[07:37:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm interested in how many times you can rephrase the traditional 4chan "u mad, bro?"
[07:37:32] <AzumaHazuki> what, you didn't understand it the first time?
[07:37:47] <AzumaHazuki> that's actually not much of a surprise given your previous performance, i guess...
[07:38:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> i graduated from that level of internet bullshit before you could type. watching you noob it up is funny though.
[07:38:30] <AzumaHazuki> again...whatever you need to tell yourself to get to sleep at night
[07:38:59] <AzumaHazuki> you made my point for me. you rushed right into it, and your panicked flurry of insults and hasty retreat afterwards are proof that even you realize you fucked up
[07:39:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> you keep saying that and not supporting it. repetition does not make truth.
[07:39:32] <AzumaHazuki> i keep telling you that, and yet....
[07:39:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> see above
[07:39:47] <AzumaHazuki> right, like i said...
[07:40:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, did you put a goto loop in the azumabot?
[07:40:25] <AzumaHazuki> LOL, and now you're trying to enlist help!
[07:40:54] <AzumaHazuki> like any bully who gets his ass whooped, your instinct is to gather reinforcements. you really never did grow up inside, did you?
[07:41:24] <AzumaHazuki> i know i shouldn't be laughing at you, but this is so incredibly predictable...
[07:41:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes, come and see the violence inherent in the azuma. you terrify me and ruin all the things i've already thought through from every argument angle you're going to make. it hurts my butt.
[07:42:09] <chromas> laughing is good for you, and what's good for your gander is worth two in the bush
[07:42:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> shit, now i need to watch boondock saints again
[07:42:31] <AzumaHazuki> you've admitted i do scare you though :) not for any realistic reason, and you're not scared of me for the reasons you should be, but you're frightened
[07:42:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> quaking in my bvds, yep.
[07:43:09] <AzumaHazuki> do you really, truly think you're fooling anyone, Uzzard? aside from yourself? I have seen this scenario play out dozens of times before
[07:43:10] <chromas> you should be watching the boondocks
[07:43:22] <AzumaHazuki> you are running the "defeated bully" script almost verbatim
[07:43:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, i just think i'm winding you up at this point.
[07:43:37] <AzumaHazuki> keep telling yourself that...
[07:43:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> goto 10
[07:43:57] <AzumaHazuki> you're desperately trying to soothe your bruised ego. you miscalculated badly before and got surprised, and responded in a panic
[07:44:01] <chromas> no, TheMightyBuzzard, you don't understand. This isn't BASIC. It's perl 6
[07:44:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> it is? fuck this shit then. TMB out.
[07:44:34] <AzumaHazuki> oh, brave sir robin~ o/~
[07:44:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> perl 6 is much more annoying than you
[07:45:35] <AzumaHazuki> why, because the interpreter instantly tells you you're full of shit instead of typing it out each time?
[07:45:38] <chromas> Imagine if perl 6 and python had a babby
[07:45:50] <chromas> python 3
[07:46:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> perl6 is already what happens if perl 5 and python have a baby, so incest
[07:47:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> scripting languages should be quick and not bitch about trivialities. that's for compiled shit.
[07:47:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> quick to develop in, not necessarily speed though that's nice as well.
[07:48:39] <chromas> I thought I read the interpreter is part-java. Was that correct?
[07:49:01] * TheMightyBuzzard shurgs
[07:49:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> there's several interpreters. one prolly is.
[07:49:59] <chromas> "Rakudo, a compiler running on MoarVM, the JVM and other backends."
[07:50:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> i know it takes less time to write something in rust than in perl6 though and rust takes longer than c.
[07:56:23] <chromas> I wonder if VBA does sockets
[07:56:33] <chromas> If I had MS Office, I'd make an irc bot in that
[07:56:44] <AzumaHazuki> why
[07:56:51] <chromas> excel maybe, or powerpoint
[07:57:13] <chromas> for fun, of course
[07:57:21] <AzumaHazuki> i am fairly certain that is a dark ritual to summon one or more elder things
[07:59:05] <chromas> well I don't have office anyhow, and pirating is against the law. I wouldn't download a bear!
[08:17:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - GNU Guix 1.0.0 Released - http://sylnt.us - dunno-what's-gnu-with-you
[08:45:08] <Runaway1956> I may be prejudiced, but here's one for the "Smoky Mountains are Amazing" department
[08:45:25] <Runaway1956> #submit https://www.foxnews.com
[08:45:26] <MrPlow> Unable to find a title for that page
[08:45:48] <Runaway1956> Awww, plowboy, come on!
[08:47:31] <chromas> TheMightyBuzzard: need to change your regex to something like <title.*?>.*?<
[08:47:46] <chromas> for those dumb website who put parameters in the title tag
[08:48:16] <Runaway1956> #submit https://www.thesun.co.uk
[08:48:17] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[08:48:26] <chromas> He didn't put a fix in for gizmodo's shitty code so this prayer will probably go unanswered
[08:48:34] <Runaway1956> Which is the classier site - fox, or sun?
[08:48:43] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[08:48:57] -!- Web_weasel [Web_weasel!~Stefan@vcgc26-799-356-234.range26-744.btcentralplus.com] has joined #Soylent
[08:49:03] <chromas> Not sure. foxnews.com isn't quite as bad as Fox News Channel
[08:49:26] <Runaway1956> A guy can outsmart dumb websites - sometimes
[08:49:49] <chromas> only if he's not lazy
[08:50:41] <Runaway1956> Last night and tonight, I've scrolled several hundred news feed titles - mostly just crap - rockets in Israel, moron dem candidates in US - lil Kim shooting his wad in Asia
[08:51:29] <chromas> The lack of news could be news
[08:52:00] <Runaway1956> ohhh - bubonic plague?
[08:52:41] <chromas> Thanks, Jenny McCarthy
[08:52:48] <Runaway1956> #submit https://www.rt.com
[08:52:50] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[08:53:15] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[08:53:28] <chromas> A lot of 'fake news' sites. Are You rDT?
[08:54:46] <Runaway1956> I don't think I'm rDT
[08:55:11] <Runaway1956> Is that like "alt-right"?
[08:55:23] <chromas> it doesn't hurt to check
[08:55:25] <Runaway1956> Oh - real donald? LMAO
[08:55:33] <chromas> , said the tsa agent as she snapped on a glove
[08:56:02] <Runaway1956> here they come, two by two, with hands of blue
[09:06:13] -!- AzumaHazuki has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[10:36:09] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - How Exercise Affects Our Memory - http://sylnt.us - i-think-i-remember-reading-about-that
[11:26:35] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~janrinok@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok] has joined #Soylent
[11:26:35] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v janrinok] by Aphrodite
[11:26:42] <exec> welcome janrinok: Paimpol, France, 12°C/54°F, 1:26 pm GMT+2, Sunday, 5 May 2019
[12:57:26] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - How a Google Street View Image of Your House Predicts Your Risk of a Car Accident - http://sylnt.us - so-does-your-smartphone-usage
[13:36:25] -!- Bytram_ [Bytram_!~a6b6f827@81-190-089-018.mobile.uscc.com] has joined #Soylent
[13:36:35] <Bytram_> coffee++
[13:36:35] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4749
[13:37:07] <Bytram_> Just a quick check-in. Have another crazy-busy day at work today and am so looking forward to having tomorrow off!
[13:37:22] <Bytram_> wish I could stay and chat, but really gtg
[13:37:27] <Bytram_> have a great day everyone!
[13:37:32] -!- Bytram_ has quit [Client Quit]
[15:04:35] -!- Leebert has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[15:15:15] -!- Sulla has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[15:17:41] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - CDC Says There's an Epidemic of E-Scooter Injuries That Could Easily be Prevented - http://sylnt.us - try-wearing-a-helmet
[15:28:44] -!- Sulla [Sulla!~Sulla@gjyjzn-375-330-899-88.mycingular.net] has joined #Soylent
[15:41:43] <jman> Avoid E-Scooter Injuries: Try Walking
[16:32:43] -!- Leebert [Leebert!~lsherida@jetppb.leebert.org] has joined #Soylent
[17:35:57] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Huge Study Finds Drugs Stop HIV Transmission - http://sylnt.us - looking-up
[18:03:54] -!- janrinok has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[19:02:19] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~janrinok@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok] has joined #Soylent
[19:02:19] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v janrinok] by Aphrodite
[19:02:26] <exec> welcome janrinok: Paimpol, France, 10°C/50°F, 9:02 pm GMT+2, Sunday, 5 May 2019
[19:08:19] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@24.178.hu.hy] has joined #Soylent
[19:08:19] -!- AzumaHazuki has quit [Changing host]
[19:08:19] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #Soylent
[19:13:48] <AzumaHazuki> Xfce makes a better KDE3 desktop than KDE4 or Plasma 5 do. I kind of like this
[19:14:06] <AzumaHazuki> Xfce 4.2 GTK theme, elementary icons, Plastik WM border theme, single old-style panel...this feels nice
[19:19:38] <chromas> KDE4+ also don't rotate taskbar text for vertical panels either :(
[19:21:36] <AzumaHazuki> something went really wrong with Linux DEs about 5-6 years ago...GTK3 mostly, but also chasing this flat/smartphone look
[19:23:29] <janrinok> Hi Az, I've settled on MATE as my desktop. It uses the latest software but sticks to the old traditional desktop
[19:24:36] <AzumaHazuki> mate just doesn't feel right to me somehow...Xfce does Gnome 2 better than Gnome 2 did it at this point. Wish they weren't moving to GTK3
[19:25:47] <janrinok> what is it that you dislike? Anything specific or just not for you?
[19:27:02] <AzumaHazuki> GTK3. it's slow, clunky, and too big and puffy
[19:27:24] <AzumaHazuki> plus i remember reading a thread on OMGUbuntu's forums that apparently theming is a "side effect" of how GTK3 actually works
[19:28:08] <janrinok> I certainly don't like Gnome+GTK3, but I don't have any problem with the speed of MATE. It can display data faster than I can think...!
[19:28:34] <AzumaHazuki> Caja is also ugly and unconfigurable compared to PCManFM, which is still the best file manager i've ever used
[19:28:53] <chromas> Even better than Windows Explorer?
[19:29:48] <AzumaHazuki> oh yeah. i like Explorer but PCManFM is better for me
[19:29:58] <AzumaHazuki> though, old-school Konquerer was my favorite
[19:30:27] <janrinok> I have a bunch of scripts which I have used under both GTK2 and GTK3 MATE. They do things that I need to do but which might not be common for everyone. I've not been able to implement them under Xfce.
[19:30:46] <AzumaHazuki> extensions to Caja or something else?
[19:30:50] <chromas> Konqueror's still around. Nobody talks about it, though
[19:31:32] <janrinok> ...but I much prefer the old school desktops to the bling of the latest offerings or, as you said, the perceived need to imitate a smart phone.
[19:32:05] <janrinok> AzumaHazuki, yeah, scripts running under Caja so they appear in my menus etc
[19:32:30] <AzumaHazuki> one of my fondest memories of Linux is the Xubuntu desktop of about 6-9 years ago, the one that used its own theme and the Tango icons and looked like Gnome 2.0
[19:33:05] <janrinok> I remember that too!
[19:34:15] <AzumaHazuki> and Compiz was awesome. it still works but it's fallen out of favor
[19:34:24] <AzumaHazuki> i think Linux desktop peaked arouns 2012 in this regard
[19:35:00] <janrinok> The MATE desktop on Fedora 29 is actually called MATE Compiz - I love it
[19:35:15] <AzumaHazuki> oh, they kept it around?
[19:35:24] <janrinok> yep, and it is still awesome
[19:35:43] <AzumaHazuki> i remember a very dark black and blue-buttoned theme called Humanoid OS X and a GTK2 theme called Leech that worked wonderfully together
[19:36:38] <janrinok> they're new to me - or at least that is what my failing memory suggests
[19:37:10] <AzumaHazuki> Leech is very old. i got it back on the art.gnome.org site in...2005?
[19:38:05] <janrinok> I was only still running both Windows and Linux back then, before I was confident enough to make a clean break
[19:38:37] <AzumaHazuki> eh...i still keep a windows VM around for Anvil Studio, my MIDI sequencer
[19:38:59] <AzumaHazuki> am trying to teach myself music theory the hard way. is not working. "circle of fifths" sounds like a drinking game
[19:40:12] <janrinok> I've only recently been able to ditch it completely - my satnav would only update under Windows, but now I have changed satnav and it just connects directly to my router so Windows is gone. Stuck with Win7 though, never went up to 8 or after.
[19:40:53] <janrinok> Circle of Fifths - you hum it and I'll drink along to it...
[19:42:00] <AzumaHazuki> it's the cirrrrrcle of fifths~ / and we booooooze us allll / through despair, and hoooope / through puke and droooool~ / till we fiiiiiind our place / on the porcelain pee stump / from the cirrrrcle / the cirrrrlce of fifths~ o/~
[19:42:31] <janrinok> I'm lying in bed laughing my head off now!
[19:42:49] <AzumaHazuki> ...incidentally this is one reason i do not drink. hate throwing up, and i have way too much hair for someone to hold out of the way during an offering to Cloacina, brown-eyed goddess of the sewers :v
[19:44:18] <janrinok> You know, on a site like ours, we all develop imaginary images of the characters that we meet, yet we could all be standing in the same room and not know each other! We are a weird bunch...
[19:44:59] <AzumaHazuki> it would be impossible to miss me. i'm 5'10", usually dressed all in black, with knee-length hair and a permanent case of Grump Cat Face
[19:45:36] <AzumaHazuki> think "Caucasuai yuurei with a chapstick-lesbian wardrobe and glasses"
[19:45:48] <janrinok> doesn't sound as though our paths have ever crossed then :0
[19:46:11] <AzumaHazuki> not likely. i'm aware this tends to creep people out a bit and don't dress remotely like that for interviews, for example
[19:47:51] <janrinok> which distro have you settled on, or do you change every so often?
[19:48:40] <AzumaHazuki> Artix, for now. I've been using Arch for the better part of 10 years, with some Void for a while. I miss Gentoo but don't have the hardware grunt for it
[19:49:15] <janrinok> Sorry, I recall reading that in a comment you made recently, I suppose I should have remembered
[19:50:31] <janrinok> I've currently got Debian on my servers, and a mix of Ubuntu and Fedora 29 on my main machines. I run several other distros as VMs though.
[19:53:44] <AzumaHazuki> SystemD scares me witless. i very nearly switched off Linux entirely a few years ago...
[19:54:04] <AzumaHazuki> it's not systemd itself so much as who's coding it and what their probable agenda is, as well as how utterly counter to the Unix Way it is
[19:56:10] <janrinok> well, it wasn't designed with us in mind. It is very good at handling containers and spinning up large numbers of machines in the cloud, but having got into it it is also very easy to use and quite powerful. I don't worry about it any more.
[19:56:12] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - US DOJ, Worried About 5G Race, Asks For Hearing If Qualcomm’s Declared A Monopoly - http://sylnt.us - cell-tower-on-park-place
[19:58:18] <janrinok> There is a bit of a learning curve, but once it clicks you have to ask yourself why wasn't it done sooner. Well, actually it was. It was an idea borrowed from the Mac, but done properly. The actual concept has been around for over a decade.
[19:59:19] <AzumaHazuki> i don't actually mind using it day to day, as long as nothing breaks. again, the implications of who is coding it, why they're coding it, and the arrogant opacity of it are what worry me
[19:59:44] <AzumaHazuki> that and its tendency to try to be all things to everyone. it's offering false modularity; no one actually builds only this service but not that service of systemd
[19:59:47] <janrinok> However, peottering is an ass, but he writes what he is paid to write, and RedHat needed this software to handle their cloud offerings while improving start up speeds and security.
[20:00:19] <AzumaHazuki> then they should have kept it internal, or even better, advertised it as their own New Hotness (TM) and *let people get jealous.*
[20:01:12] <janrinok> as I said, the man is an ass. But I don't know how many linux devs fit that description either so it is a moot point.
[20:01:17] <AzumaHazuki> instead they seem to have infiltrated Linux as a whole, gaslit Debian into using it (which has knock-on effects on the entire Linux ecosystem) and acted like we've always been at war with Eastasia^W SysVInit
[20:01:49] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, SysVInit has serious issues, but OpenRC and Runit are the solutions...SystemD is trying to do too much and isn't doing it right
[20:02:25] <janrinok> https://www.youtube.com if you get some time
[20:02:26] <upstart> ^ 03The Tragedy of systemd
[20:03:03] <AzumaHazuki> that's the one!
[20:03:36] <janrinok> he explains it far better than I ever can
[20:04:42] <janrinok> but I don't try to impose my views on others or influence their choices. Not my problem.
[20:06:29] <AzumaHazuki> i wish i could just disappear too...i'm a lost child in time, always have been. but i see too much how everything is connected and how things emerge from previous circumstances
[20:08:06] <janrinok> that sounds pretty deep....
[20:10:24] <AzumaHazuki> it sounds deep, but it's very simple. it's obvious when you think about it
[20:11:03] <AzumaHazuki> just based on plain old physics, everything is connected to some degree. even if you have a hard limit in the form of the speed of light, and by definition regions of spacetime whose light cones will never intersect
[20:13:10] <janrinok> I'm more of an 'we're only here once, and nobody gets out alive' type of guy....
[20:13:58] <janrinok> I've enjoyed my life , and hope to continue enjoying whatever I have left, so I have no regrets.
[20:14:44] <AzumaHazuki> no one is an island...and we have far less control over that than you think. you could be laid low tomorrow by illness and never "enjoy whatever you have left"
[20:14:50] <AzumaHazuki> and you won't deserve it. it will just happen
[20:15:39] <janrinok> then what I have left can be measured in hours - so what? I've had 67 good years, anything else is a bonus! :)
[20:16:40] <AzumaHazuki> but the world is bigger than you, and you did not have those 67 mostly good years without there being a price for it...
[20:16:46] <janrinok> I'm sure there will be some who will be happy at that point. Me? I'll just be dead.
[20:17:34] <janrinok> Are you trying to convince me that I should worry about what might happen?
[20:17:50] <AzumaHazuki> how do i put this into words clearly? those 67 years were not "earned," they were largely luck
[20:17:54] <AzumaHazuki> most things are
[20:18:21] <AzumaHazuki> this idea scares the local gibbertarian types, but it's the truth. we can do only so much, no matter how well prepared or "meritorious" we are
[20:19:03] <janrinok> I didn't say they were earned. I've happily squandered some of them. But nobody can tell me what happens next - well, not with any degree of certainty that would convince me that they are correct.
[20:19:21] <AzumaHazuki> you're one of the lucky ones, is my point
[20:19:55] <AzumaHazuki> you seem not to have let this go to your head but there are entirely too many people who were born on third base and think they hit a triple
[20:20:04] <janrinok> indeed I am, and I've tried to make others around me feel the same way
[20:20:54] <janrinok> I think that was a baseball analogy that went completely over my Brit head....
[20:22:33] <AzumaHazuki> basically, a lot of people are born into good situations and think they earned their way there, and that manifests as gibbertarian bullshit, victim blaming, and selfishness
[20:24:42] <janrinok> in which case they are wrong - but they can live their lives however they want. If they ask for my opinion I will gladly give it, but otherwise I'll continue to enjoy myself until they want to try and change my circumstances. Then I will fight back - and win.
[20:27:22] <janrinok> I've got to go - tomorrow approaches fast and I have to be up fairly early in the morning. Nice talking with you Az, enjoy the rest of your weekend, and I'll catch you later.
[20:27:44] <AzumaHazuki> good luck
[20:29:02] <janrinok> u2
[20:29:12] -!- janrinok has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[21:06:19] -!- Web_weasel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[22:03:47] -!- Sulla has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[22:18:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Japan to Develop Defensive Malware - http://sylnt.us - for-educational-purposes-only
[22:19:49] <AzumaHazuki> ohh boy...i can see where THAT'S going. "defensive malware" sounds like a contradiction in terms to begin with
[22:33:23] <chromas> We'll infect you before $badguy does
[22:33:29] <chromas> It's for the good of the land
[23:18:11] <pinchy> come on firefox android update
[23:26:53] <AzumaHazuki> spring thunderstorm <3 ~o~
[23:26:57] <AzumaHazuki> i love these. when indoors.
[23:28:27] <AzumaHazuki> perfect for the homemade chicken broth and drumstick meat soup too
[23:35:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> chimichangas and margaritas for dinner. good ole american melting pot.
[23:36:58] <AzumaHazuki> pretty sure like every culture ever figured out broth. i love being able to make stuff from even bones and scraps :)
[23:37:44] <AzumaHazuki> unfortunately now that bone broth is trendy hipster chow, bones i used to get given free now cost $BUX
[23:41:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> hipsters--
[23:41:58] <Bender> karma - hipsters: -12
[23:42:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> thankfully, there's still plenty of meat that they don't charge extra for the bones in
[23:43:17] <AzumaHazuki> got these drumsticks for $0.75 on the pound. even beef feet are double that these days and they have no meat, so i think i'll be making a bunch more of this
[23:45:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> i generally prefer beef if i'm doing broth but i'm not terribly picky. anything but fish is fine.
[23:46:04] -!- SoyCow9356 [SoyCow9356!~49b1843d@73.177.opr.wy] has joined #Soylent
[23:46:45] -!- SoyCow9356 has quit [Client Quit]
[23:48:01] -!- trialmember [trialmember!~trialmemb@l-63-762-772-20.hsd6.va.comcast.net] has joined #Soylent
[23:49:21] * TheMightyBuzzard buggers off to get his anime marathon on
[23:49:46] <AzumaHazuki> never figured you for a weeb
[23:49:59] <trialmember> pokemon is my favorite anime
[23:50:09] <AzumaHazuki> for all that i'm using an anime avatar i've seen maybe 6 series all the way through and only one was actually that long
[23:51:22] <AzumaHazuki> all in the GL/yuri genre, now i think of it...Kannazuki no Miko, Maria-sama ga Miteru, YamiBou (not typing the entire thing out), Utena, Aria, and Sailor Moon
[23:55:54] -!- Fnord666_ [Fnord666_!~Fnord666@925-300-434-342.ubr6.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined #Soylent