#Soylent | Logs for 2019-02-18
« return
[00:04:18] -!- Web_weasel has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[00:08:52] <FatPhil> after a sauna, there's just so much eye-glop. in the morning, they're practically caked closed.
[00:09:16] <AzumaHazuki> hm...i'm beginning to like the Surf browser. This is following a switch from X-Chat to Irssi
[00:09:31] <FatPhil> no idea why, but both g/f & I notice it.
[00:10:47] * FatPhil likes irssi
[00:12:44] <AzumaHazuki> it took me a little while to set up properly, and it has no notifier built it. but urxvt can be told to visual-bell on urgent, and irssi can set urgent hint on queries/hilights, so... :)
[00:13:19] <AzumaHazuki> Surf I just started playing with a few minutes ago. its adblocker is a giant fuck-off hosts file, which...makes me ick a bit, but it works
[00:18:41] <FatPhil> some people have used hosts files for that purpose way back
[00:19:17] <FatPhil> the alternatives really aren't that much more advanced
[00:26:52] <AzumaHazuki> doesn't this mean the file needs to be consulted for every single item on every single page though?
[00:27:03] * AzumaHazuki hopes like hell Linux is bright enough to keep it in RAM
[00:27:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> so, the roomie fell victim to a well orchestrated plot that involved puppy dog eyes and we now have another 12 year old girl in the house for the evening.
[00:30:11] <AzumaHazuki> neat, it even plays youtube video with gstreamer's libav plugin
[00:45:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Uber Bookings Up 45% in 2018, Company Loses Slightly Less Money - http://sylnt.us - How-to-lose-$5-million-every-single-day-for-a-whole-year
[00:53:02] <AzumaHazuki> brb
[00:53:07] -!- AzumaHazuki has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[00:53:31] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@24.178.hu.hy] has joined #Soylent
[00:53:31] -!- AzumaHazuki has quit [Changing host]
[00:53:31] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #Soylent
[00:57:38] <AzumaHazuki> there we go :) OT: it's good to have a Chinese grocery store nearby. lots of cheap produce, and things like fishballs and red-cooked pork for soup
[01:00:31] * Bytram wonders what color the pork was before it was cooked
[01:05:22] <AzumaHazuki> pinkish shading to brown. red-cooked (hongshao) is a popular kind of cooking method for pork and it's delicious :9
[01:05:46] <Bytram> so... it actually changes color to red when you cook it?
[01:05:59] * Bytram pictures what happens when cooking a lobster
[01:06:14] <AzumaHazuki> i got a few of these 魚肉卷 https://img.yzcdn.cn for supper in soup tonight
[01:06:27] <AzumaHazuki> these are surimi (fish mince) around ground pork. the taste is weird but very nice
[01:07:51] <Bytram> I apologize... I was trying to make a funny, and appaently filed miserably.
[01:08:18] <Bytram> was also thinking of red-casing hotdogs... why ever would someone think that was a good thing?
[01:08:18] <AzumaHazuki> i spent early and middle childhood in an almost all-Chinese section of NYC so i learned a lot of these things early, lol
[01:08:28] <Bytram> good for you
[01:08:57] <AzumaHazuki> a little basic herbalism, low-level zangfu theory, and some weird superstitions. like, i still mostly don't eat raw veggies
[01:09:32] <Bytram> cooking makes things easier to chew so one takes less time providing one's daily sustenance.
[01:09:43] <AzumaHazuki> for a while i actually worked in a Cantonese takeout place, and got some very weird looks by making simple herb preparations on breaks
[01:09:52] <Bytram> used to be one would have to spend several hours each day just chewing and chewing to get enough food
[01:10:02] <Bytram> rofl
[01:10:30] <AzumaHazuki> i still get weird looks at the checkout with a basket full of bitter melon and dried herbs and red dates
[01:10:42] <AzumaHazuki> like "uh, hey, laowainu, you sure you know how to use those?"
[01:15:31] <Bytram> "Yes, I'm pretty sure, but I am always open to new ideas... what do you have in mind?"
[01:16:23] <AzumaHazuki> Oh they're way too polite to actually say it. But not a lot of Americans like those flavors or know how to use them
[01:17:01] <AzumaHazuki> there's an herb called xiakucao (summer-withering grass, Prunella vulgaris) that makes a really refreshing cool tea in summer, especially with chrysanthemum
[01:17:05] <Bytram> interesting. (about being polite) and, yeah, it's amazing what people know that you didn't know they knew... once you get to know them!
[01:22:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> not especially SFW but funny: https://scontent-mia3-2.xx.fbcdn.net
[01:40:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> electroboom++
[01:40:54] <Bender> karma - electroboom: 1
[01:47:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://www.youtube.com
[01:47:48] <upstart> ^ 03Graphite and Its Awesome Properties
[02:17:29] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - New York City Mayor Slams Amazon's Decision to Cancel HQ2 Expansion - http://sylnt.us - What-else-could-you-do-with-$3-billion?
[03:03:56] -!- guy_ [guy_!~guy@69.57.mki.vun] has joined #Soylent
[03:17:34] -!- stderr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[03:17:48] -!- stderr [stderr!~poho@GetOffMyLawn/stderr] has joined #Soylent
[03:55:45] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Happy 150th Birthday Periodic Table - http://sylnt.us - where-does-chuck-norrium-fall-on-the-table
[03:55:49] * TheMightyBuzzard sighs
[03:56:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> i should be going to bed but i had to have some evening coffee so it's vampire hunter d and tacos time
[03:56:40] -!- guy__ [guy__!~guy@69.57.mki.vun] has joined #Soylent
[03:58:59] -!- guy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[04:38:56] -!- AzumaHazuki has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[04:56:39] -!- guy_ [guy_!~guy@69.57.mki.vun] has joined #Soylent
[04:59:15] -!- guy__ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[05:29:07] -!- guy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[05:37:03] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Most Devastating Critique of Medicine Since Medical Nemesis by Ivan Illich in 1975 - http://sylnt.us - getting-sick-is-hazardous-to-your-health
[07:00:11] -!- Web_weasel [Web_weasel!~Stefan@qnxk76-238-245-342.range26-288.btcentralplus.com] has joined #Soylent
[07:08:13] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - U.S. Airlines Will Offer New Gender Identification Options, According to Trade Group - http://sylnt.us - tring-to-engender-goodwill?
[07:15:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> fuck fuck fuckity fuck fuck fuck. can't sleep.
[07:17:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> guess there's nothing for it but to go to brooklyn
[07:39:29] -!- Runaway1956 [Runaway1956!~guy@69.57.mki.vun] has joined #Soylent
[07:39:30] <exec> welcome Runaway1956: Dallas, TX, 6°C/43°F, 1:39 am CST, Monday, 18 February 2019
[08:00:00] -!- Web_weasel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[08:16:44] <chromas> tacos++
[08:16:44] <Bender> karma - tacos: 15
[08:47:29] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Cyber Insurance claims NotPetya was an act of war - http://sylnt.us - GIMO:-Garbage-in-Money-out
[09:35:56] -!- Kazzie has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[11:06:17] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Dolphins Seem to Use Toxic Pufferfish to Get High - http://sylnt.us - listen-to-the-colours
[11:49:06] -!- guy_ [guy_!~guy@69.57.mki.vun] has joined #Soylent
[11:51:30] -!- Runaway1956 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[11:55:15] -!- guy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[12:47:33] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Brain Discovery Explains A Great Mystery Of Alzheimer's and Parkinson's - http://sylnt.us - expect-the-unexpected
[12:48:59] <chromas> from the shake-and-forget dept
[13:04:09] <AndyTheAbsurd> why is my samsung tablet so terrible.
[13:04:32] <AndyTheAbsurd> every time I want to update apps on it, I have to restart it before it will download the updates.
[13:06:24] <boru> What are you running on it?
[13:14:49] <AndyTheAbsurd> Android 8 using the Samsung-provided build.
[13:15:54] <boru> That's likely the problem; the samsung shitware.
[13:17:38] <chromas> What if you toggle airplane mode instead of rebooting?
[13:19:51] <boru> I can't see that idea taking off.
[13:20:20] <AndyTheAbsurd> It's mostly not horrible; this is just a weird annoyance that shows up when I want to make sure that it doesn't restart the JIRA app while I'm using it in a meeting. Otherwise I don't care.
[13:28:39] <chromas> I had to read that line a few times before it landed
[13:29:27] <AndyTheAbsurd> it's a difficult-to-parse sentence...I produce a lot of those, which is why I can't hang out with stupid people.
[13:31:47] * chromas socially awkward seals
[14:19:08] <Bytram> coffee++
[14:19:08] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4610
[14:19:13] <Bytram> !uid
[14:19:13] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 7345, owned by panneer selvam
[14:25:51] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Get set for 'super snow moon,' the biggest supermoon of the year - http://sylnt.us - do-"flat-Earthers"-believe-in-a-flat-moon?
[14:48:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[14:48:38] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4611
[14:48:40] <FatPhil> Gawd, what's come over academia - just reading some style guide that insists that "i.e." and "e.g." are right out, and it has to be "ie" and "eg" now.
[15:05:16] <Bytram> FatPhil: You gotta be kidding me?!!! Linky?
[15:05:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, they were coopted by idealists who'd never experienced the real world long ago. expecting anything but idiocy multiplying upon itself is silly.
[15:06:51] <Bytram> #g wikipedia "i.e."
[15:06:52] <MrPlow> https://en.wikipedia.org - "Ie, ie or IE may refer to: Contents. 1 Arts and entertainment; 2 Businesses and organizations; 3 Language; 4 Places; 5 Science and technology. 5.1 Computing ..."
[15:07:26] <Bytram> #g wikipedia "e.g."
[15:07:27] <MrPlow> https://en.wikipedia.org - "Eg or EG may refer to: Contents. 1 In arts and media; 2 Businesses and organizations; 3 Places; 4 In science and technology; 5 Other uses; 6 See also ..."
[15:08:01] <Bytram> "id est (i.e.), Latin for "that is" or "in other words""
[15:08:36] <Bytram> e.g., abbreviation for exempli gratia, a Latin phrase meaning "for example"
[15:08:47] <FatPhil> Ecce, Romani!
[15:09:13] * FatPhil had 3 years of Latin at school.
[15:10:14] * Bytram studied German for 3 years, and is self-taught reading ancient Greek (prolly at something like a 4th grade level)
[15:12:58] <Bytram> #g wikipedia super moon
[15:12:59] <MrPlow> https://en.wikipedia.org - "A supermoon is a full moon or a new moon that nearly coincides with perigee—the closest that the Moon comes to the Earth in its elliptic orbit—resulting in a ..."
[15:24:46] <Bytram> #g wikipedia micromoon
[15:24:47] <MrPlow> https://www.timeanddate.com - "A Micromoon happens when a Full Moon or a New Moon coincides with apogee; the point in the Moon's orbit farthest away from Earth. It's also known as Micro ..."
[15:33:09] <Bytram> #g weather sydney australia
[15:33:10] <MrPlow> https://weather.com - "Be prepared with the most accurate 10-day forecast for Sydney, Australia with highs, lows, chance of precipitation from The Weather Channel and Weather.com."
[15:33:20] <Bytram> ~weather sydney
[15:33:21] <exec> 10Sydney NSW, Australia - currently 73°F / 23°C, clear, wind E at 6 mph, humidity 80% - Monday partly cloudy (70°F:84°F / 21°C:29°C), Tuesday scattered thunderstorms (68°F:77°F / 20°C:25°C), Wednesday scattered showers (68°F:73°F / 20°C:23°C), Thursday partly cloudy (65°F:76°F / 18°C:24°C)
[15:34:26] <Bytram> ~weather miami
[15:34:28] <exec> 10Miami, FL - currently 80°F / 27°C, partly cloudy, wind S at 11 mph, humidity 83% - Monday partly cloudy (73°F:82°F / 23°C:28°C), Tuesday partly cloudy (74°F:81°F / 23°C:27°C), Wednesday partly cloudy (74°F:80°F / 23°C:27°C), Thursday partly cloudy (72°F:81°F / 22°C:27°C)
[15:34:45] <Bytram> #g weather miami
[15:34:46] <MrPlow> https://weather.com - "Be prepared with the most accurate 10-day forecast for Miami, FL with highs, lows, chance of precipitation from The Weather Channel and Weather.com."
[15:56:30] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Finding Lena, the Patron Saint of JPEGs - http://sylnt.us - controversial-memes
[16:00:35] <AndyTheAbsurd> #g weather St Pete Florida
[16:00:35] <MrPlow> https://weather.com - "Be prepared with the most accurate 10-day forecast for Saint Petersburg, FL with highs, lows, chance of precipitation from The Weather Channel and ..."
[16:00:49] <AndyTheAbsurd> #g St Pete Florida Blues
[16:00:50] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com - "Nov 26, 2016 ... Jason Hodge Jason Hodge56 minutes ago i have this exact recording on a vinyl with a blue cover that reads \"Ray Charles The Early Years\"."
[16:01:15] <boru> Not just the patraon saint of JPEGs, but that image was used for practically every computer graphics course over the last four decades.
[16:12:45] <Bytram> boru: yep, I remember!
[16:14:33] <Bytram> Not that I used it personally, but it looks to have just the right mix of colors and textures to exercise whatever compression algorithm you were working with.. any aberrations would be readily apparent.
[16:15:12] <boru> Well, the bitmap was just the input for geometric transforms.
[16:15:23] <boru> Well, the introduction to the rudimentary algorithms for said transforms.
[16:15:30] <Bytram> nod nod
[16:16:02] <boru> JFIF is a dreadful standard, imho.
[16:16:17] <Bytram> huh?
[16:16:24] <Bytram> #g JFIF
[16:16:24] <MrPlow> https://en.wikipedia.org - "The JPEG File Interchange Format (JFIF) is an image file format standard. It is a format for exchanging JPEG encoded files compliant with the JPEG Interchange ..."
[16:16:29] <boru> What people call JPEG, is actually JFIF.
[16:16:40] <Bytram> I see.
[16:16:43] <Bytram> ;)
[16:16:49] <boru> JPEG are the organisation behind it.
[16:16:57] <Bytram> nod nod
[16:18:40] <boru> If there's one thing that there's no shortage of in the world, is terrible image formats e.g. JFIF, TIFF, FITS.
[16:19:16] <boru> FITS had some great features, but then the Fortran programmers got their hands on it.
[16:19:48] <Bytram> yeah, try something. Seems to work. Add some features. Still seems to work. Add more features. Corner cases arise. Hack them out. Result: jumbled mess.
[16:20:21] <boru> It's still fairly simple, but it's a bit dated.
[16:20:35] <Bytram> Would that there were a well-planned overriding architecture that encompassed all the edge/corner cases and handled them in a consistent 'language'
[16:20:37] <boru> It's basically: [header][data]
[16:20:50] <boru> All 'records' are 2880B in size
[16:20:58] <boru> Headers are records, data blocks are records.
[16:21:04] <boru> The header is key/value pairs
[16:21:35] <boru> Keys are 8B wide, and the value is 70B i.e. 80 bytes wide with 'key = value'
[16:22:11] <boru> It was designed for storing astronomical data on tape drives, and just sort of stuck around like a bad smell.
[16:22:36] <FatPhil> Fuck ISO dates, this is the only way to write a date: https://img.purch.com
[16:22:40] <boru> What is nice about it, though is the ability to do, say: [header][data][header][data][header][data]...
[16:22:54] <boru> Where you embed multiple images which may be, for example, different channels.
[16:23:28] <Bytram> 80 bytes wide... like a... punch card?!!
[16:23:33] <boru> Yeah, you nailed it.
[16:23:38] <Bytram> =)
[16:23:44] <Bytram> EBCDIC
[16:23:53] * Bytram cringes at the memories
[16:24:03] * boru chuckles
[16:24:11] <Bytram> can you say non-contiguous letters?
[16:24:39] <Bytram> i.e. there are non-letter characters defined between "A" and "Z" as well as between "a" and "z" (IIRC)
[16:24:40] <FatPhil> non co nti gu ouslett ers
[16:24:48] <Bytram> FatPhil++ ROFL!!!!!
[16:24:48] <Bender> karma - fatphil: 35
[16:25:52] <FatPhil> EBCDIC was retarded because of the "BCD" part
[16:26:47] <Bytram> yup. IBM already had hardware-encoded processing of BCD 9as well as a bunch of stuff that already used it) and they wanted to maintain compatibility, instead of fixing it right, the first time.
[16:26:58] <Bytram> s/9/(/
[16:27:00] <exec> <Bytram> yup. IBM already had hardware-encoded processing of BCD (as well as a bunch of stuff that already used it) and they wanted to maintain compatibility, instead of fixing it right, the first time.
[16:27:55] <Bytram> FatPhil: So, if I read your link correctly, I should be writing my dates in... French?
[16:28:01] <Bytram> ;)
[16:28:32] <FatPhil> Matters not - it's beautiful even if it requires an extra dimension!
[16:29:18] <Bytram> you mean? The Twilight Zone!!!
[16:37:42] <AndyTheAbsurd> oh gods EBCDIC
[16:37:47] * AndyTheAbsurd flees in terror
[16:38:28] * Bytram sees someone approaching from behind and speeds up his pace
[16:38:38] <AndyTheAbsurd> hehe
[16:39:11] <AndyTheAbsurd> EBCDIC is terrible; makes me glad I don't work for a bank anymore.
[16:40:22] * Bytram may or may not have spent a few years working for IBM testing their VM operating system which was written in assembler
[16:41:18] <AndyTheAbsurd> I used to deal with Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and American Express.
[16:41:39] <AndyTheAbsurd> Visa and MasterCard used the same EBCDIC that the Tandem Non-Stop system we used did, so that was fine.
[16:42:23] <AndyTheAbsurd> Discover used ASCII, which was an extra step but really not bad.
[16:42:42] <AndyTheAbsurd> American Express, however.... had a different implementation of EBCDIC than we did.
[16:43:02] <Bytram> Tandem non-stop? That was from Stratus?
[16:43:11] <Bytram> #g stratus computers
[16:43:12] <MrPlow> https://www.stratus.com - "Stratus Technologies is the leading provider of availability solutions for your critical infrastructure to stay always up, always on. Learn more."
[16:43:25] <Bytram> yep. worked there for a while, too.
[16:45:04] <AndyTheAbsurd> No, they were their own company for a long time, trying to compete with IBM in the "fault tolerant mainframe" space, then got acquired by Compaq shortly before Compaq got acquired by HP, ended up an HP product.
[16:46:07] <Bytram> Was a *long* time ago... mid-late 1990's IIRC
[16:46:43] <Bytram> #g wikipedia stratus computers
[16:46:43] <MrPlow> https://en.wikipedia.org - "Stratus Technologies, Inc. is a major producer of fault tolerant computer servers and software. The company was founded in 1980 as Stratus Computer, Inc. in ..."
[16:47:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, mid-late 90s is not long ago. you're older than me so you're definitely too old to think like that.
[16:47:33] <Bytram> a year in tech is like 7 IRL
[16:47:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> dog years?
[16:47:49] <AndyTheAbsurd> Mid-1990s was more than half of my life ago.
[16:47:51] <Bytram> feels that way
[16:48:16] <FatPhil> Doesn't FIELDATA predate EBCDIC - there was no reason to ever have used EBCDIC (apart from cynical customer tie-in)
[16:49:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> you know, i've completely forgotten everything about the billing systems i set up back in the 90s except that i was converting a perl4 system to perl5 at the time and dealing directly with the CC companies instead of a processor.
[16:50:58] * Bytram has no recollection at all of FIELDATA
[16:52:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> unfortunately it was closed source so i can't even go back and look at the code i wrote.
[16:52:17] <Bytram> hmm, I wonder what bitcoin / monero / etc are up to these days? Has enough changed that it might be again useful to use them as a subscription payment option again?
[16:52:27] <Bytram> #g bitpay
[16:52:27] <MrPlow> https://bitpay.com - "Start accepting bitcoin today. Or spend & store bitcoin with the BitPay Card and Wallet."
[16:52:45] <Bytram> #g stripe bitcoin
[16:52:45] <MrPlow> https://stripe.com - "Jan 23, 2018 ... Starting today, we are winding down support for Bitcoin payments. Over the next three months we will work with affected Stripe users to ensure ..."
[16:53:00] <Bytram> oh yeah, now I remember that.
[16:53:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, bitpay can eat a dick. they have absurd bullshit in their api and add breaking changes every time you turn around.
[16:54:03] <Bytram> hmmm, yeah. It's coming back to me, now. If they are going to act that way, I fully agree to steer clear.
[16:55:14] <FatPhil> FIELDATA was military, but Univacs used it in the early 60s.
[16:55:34] <Bytram> ahhh, that 'splains why I don't remember. thanks!
[16:56:58] <FatPhil> But if you think EBCDIC was insane, have you checked out its complete shitshow of precursors - BCDIC. It looks like every programmer in IBM came up with their own 6-bit character set!
[16:58:10] <Bytram> 6-bit? Horrors!!
[16:58:31] <Bytram> Then again, back then, memory was $$$$$
[17:00:01] * Bytram marvels that an IBM mainframe with 32MB of main memory and 256 MB of extended memory would cost many $millions and require refrigerator-sized boxes to hold them. Now we've got hundreds of times more computing power, storage, and IO in our cell phones.
[17:00:32] <Bytram> that was back in the early-mid 1980s
[17:03:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> heh, found the game i wrote the billing system for two decades ago was opensourced last year. they scrapped my account/billing system though and wrote a new one in python.
[17:04:30] <FatPhil> I do remember using a minicomputer at school when I was ~10, and it took 5 minutes to boot to terminal prompts
[17:04:47] -!- Web_weasel [Web_weasel!~Stefan@qnxk76-238-245-342.range26-288.btcentralplus.com] has joined #Soylent
[17:04:49] <FatPhil> that had only kilobytes rather than megabytes
[17:05:46] <Bytram> PDP/8 with a 14-step program to be keyed into the front panel which got it to read paper tape program that could read another format paper tape program that finally allowed use of dectape magnetic storage.
[17:06:00] <FatPhil> I also remember getting the login greeting "hello", and responding with "hello", which yielded an error message. I next typed "bye", and the system shut down.
[17:06:07] <Bytram> that would, finally, load the OS.
[17:06:19] <Bytram> *chuckles*
[17:06:21] <FatPhil> which took several minutes, and of course took 5 minutes to reboot.
[17:08:43] <FatPhil> I used to have a Centronics printer that had a 5-bit paper tape reader as input, as well as its duplex centronix parralel port (twice the size of a normal parallel port)
[17:09:51] <Bytram> zoinks! Parallel ports and cables were huge! You could almost fit a RPi into one of 'em!
[17:16:54] <FatPhil> wikipedia doesn't seem to have a piccy of the full duplex centronix
[17:17:36] <Bytram> nod nod
[17:18:06] * Bytram just finished reading the 100+ comments on our five year birthday story... looks generally positive and appreciative!
[17:18:52] <Bytram> oh, and the mention of the allowed tags reminds me that I would like to make a quick-and-dirty 'primer' for each of the tags.
[17:19:04] <Bytram> break time
[17:19:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, do it in abbr tags that you can hover over the tag name and read
[17:20:00] <fyngyrz> One thing about Centronix and DB-25 parallel ports though, they didn't break nearly as often as these frigging over-shrunken USB connectors do.
[17:20:43] <fyngyrz> I *never* had one break; but I have broken USB connectors everywhere (not just the cables - the jacks as well)
[17:21:10] <fyngyrz> my (expensive) camera - jack broken. Phone chargers: jack broken. Etc.
[17:21:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> truth. even the usb-a connectors/jacks break a lot more often than serial/parallel/vga/etc...
[17:21:35] <fyngyrz> not that I'd want a db-25 on my camera ;)
[17:21:44] <fyngyrz> but still. They could have done lots better
[17:22:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> i specially hate usb-c on account of it's non-directional. takes all the fun of having to flip the connector over twice to get it to plug in.
[17:23:08] <FatPhil> This look like the bastard: https://www.centronics-connector.com
[17:33:07] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: yeah, no. I was intending to write a page on each showing the HTML AND how it would look when rendered.
[17:33:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> works as well i spose
[17:34:52] <fyngyrz> Bytram, on the abbr generation page, the {tag} macro will make it very easy to write this
[17:34:52] <fungus> Bytram, on the abbr generation page, the ? Unknown Style "tag" ? macro will make it very easy to write this
[17:34:53] <Bytram> think about trying to imbed '<' and '>' as literals as well as having them rendered... all within the title text of an abbr tag... as soon as you hit a quote char, it ll goes sideways, unless there is a way to 'quote' a quote character in the title text and then it starts getting *really* wierd!
[17:35:24] <fyngyrz> nope, also easy. :)
[17:35:49] <Bytram> I'm thinking a couple three or so examples for each one, never mind nesting examples of different kinds of lists.
[17:36:25] <Bytram> KISS. In general, one HTML page per tag, with maybe a few others for examples of nesting tags
[17:36:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> you say that like a guy who's never had to deal with mixed cmd.exe/bash escapes
[17:36:51] <Bytram> was that a pic of the standard centronix or your double-sized one?
[17:37:43] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: you are talking to the guy who had to find some way to shoehorn examples and expansions of Unicode/UTF-8 tests into SN comments and stories.
[17:37:49] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Critical WordPress Plugin Flaw Allows Complete Website Takeover - http://sylnt.us - anti-social-buttons
[17:37:54] <Bytram> *SHUDDER*
[17:38:07] * TheMightyBuzzard chuckles
[17:38:16] <Bytram> #smake TheMightyBuzzard
[17:38:16] * MrPlow smakes TheMightyBuzzard upside the head with a limp carrot
[17:39:40] <fyngyrz> in fact... I can write a macro that'll do it for you all in one shot
[17:39:45] <fyngyrz> gimme one minute
[17:39:48] * Bytram reads up on Stratus Computers... discovers it was a competitor to Tandem and curses at his memory lapse
[17:40:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> fyngyrz, you're taking all the fun out of pulling your own hair out
[17:41:12] <Bytram> yeah, that's nice and all, but I still have a dynamic IP so it would be less convenient than just using run-of-the-mill HTML.
[17:41:16] <fyngyrz> we've all got a limited amount of time. Wasting it on annoyance is foolish.
[17:41:42] <Bytram> "The longest distance between two points is a shortcut."
[17:41:49] <fyngyrz> I can just turn the IP limit off for a while
[17:42:00] <fyngyrz> I dont' actually think there's any risk
[17:42:18] <Bytram> I can write and maintain HTML with just a simple text editor. Works anywhere I can find a text editor.
[17:42:20] <fyngyrz> no one knows it's there but you
[17:42:33] * Bytram looks around and doesn't see anything. ;)
[17:43:59] <Bytram> too bad you couldn't just have a bot watch an invite-only IRC channel and wait for me to ping it with a magic word.
[17:44:02] <fyngyrz> http://dojang.com
[17:44:19] <fyngyrz> tag, followed by the explanation
[17:44:21] <FatPhil> Bytram: that's the double-sized one, normal was 32 pins
[17:44:25] <fyngyrz> VBAR between
[17:44:36] <Bytram> gnawed gnawed. Thanks!
[17:45:45] <Bytram> Yes, but I was going to do things like give examples like: <p>This is an example of <b>stuff I want to be in bold</b></p>
[17:48:22] <fyngyrz> can make that into a macro too :)
[17:48:37] <fyngyrz> bold already is, but it's easy to combine. Sec.
[17:49:55] <Bytram> for reference, this is the line from the submit comment page: <b|i|p|br|a|ol|ul|li|dl|dt|dd|em|strong|tt|blockquote|div|ecode|quote|sup|sub|abbr|sarc|sarcasm|user|spoiler|del|strike>
[17:51:18] <Bytram> so you are proposing that I could include multiple examples of every one of those tags in the value of the title text of an abbr tag?
[17:53:07] <fyngyrz> sec... building example
[17:53:13] <Bytram> k
[17:57:18] <fyngyrz> http://dojang.com
[17:58:10] <Bytram> ummm, I see what you are doing there, but I am not explaining myself well. Give me a few minutes, k?
[17:58:19] <fyngyrz> For most, We could even build a macro that does most of that
[17:58:33] <fyngyrz> abbr is an exception, because it uses title=""
[17:58:46] <fyngyrz> most tags (all the rest) dont' have options
[17:58:49] <Bytram> bingo.
[17:59:10] <fyngyrz> ok, gimme sec and I'll build ya a do-it all
[18:01:02] <Bytram> ~time x
[18:01:04] <exec> location not found - UTC timestamp: Monday, 18 February 2019, 6:01 pm
[18:07:14] <Bytram> fyngyrz: here's is an example of what I had in mind: https://dev.soylentnews.org
[18:07:15] <upstart> ^ 03Dev.SN Comments | HTML Element (tag) Tests ( https://dev.soylentnews.org )
[18:09:53] <Bytram> and another: https://dev.soylentnews.org
[18:09:54] <upstart> ^ 03Dev.SN Comments | HTML Element (tag) Tests ( https://dev.soylentnews.org )
[18:15:32] <fyngyrz> almsot there
[18:16:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's what she said
[18:16:39] <fyngyrz> also, in your example, the <p> tag isn't required on soylent with plain text
[18:16:46] <Bytram> wear?
[18:16:51] <Bytram> oh.. ware!
[18:17:04] <fyngyrz> way-er
[18:17:16] <Bytram> weigher?
[18:17:30] <fyngyrz> wey argh
[18:17:31] <Bytram> now a bit more interesting example: https://dev.soylentnews.org
[18:17:32] <upstart> ^ 03Dev.SN Comments | HTML Element (tag) Tests ( https://dev.soylentnews.org )
[18:17:58] <fyngyrz> modding to add your text
[18:18:04] <Bytram> k
[18:18:51] * Bytram wishes SN supported the plain old <code>' html element
[18:18:58] <Bytram> #g "<code>" html
[18:18:58] <MrPlow> https://www.w3schools.com - "Definition and Usage. The <code> tag is a phrase tag. It defines a piece of computer code. Tip: This tag is not deprecated, but it is possible to achieve richer ..."
[18:20:14] <Bytram> when we render ecode, it gets transformed into what appears to be a blockquote containing a TT element.
[18:22:08] <Bytram> Every time someone goes to post a comment, do we want ABBR expansions for all examples of all supported HTML elements to be downloaded, too?
[18:25:30] <Bytram> break time. Had a horribly busy day yesterday and slept in, but may need a nap to fully recover. :(
[18:25:53] <fyngyrz> hadd do some tricks to get the hover to screen cap
[18:25:55] <fyngyrz> http://dojang.com
[18:25:59] <Bytram> Oh, and my new lappy arrived yesterday. Need to backup the SSD before I start it up.
[18:26:02] <Bytram> clicky
[18:26:52] <fyngyrz> acgtually, one of those is a hangover, can be simpler
[18:27:00] <fyngyrz> I( was using the third parm as the text
[18:27:04] <fyngyrz> no need for that now
[18:27:06] <Bytram> k
[18:27:15] <fyngyrz> easy fix
[18:28:12] <Bytram> hrm,,,
[18:28:40] * Bytram wished he could edit his comments, but could just asd easily make it part of the original story which he CAN edit... wonder about size limits, tho.
[18:28:45] <Bytram> ok, gtg
[18:35:37] <fyngyrz> http://dojang.com
[18:35:39] <fyngyrz> how's that
[18:37:36] <fyngyrz> lost him I guess
[18:41:55] <fyngyrz> hm. my preview is converting metachars... shouldn't
[18:44:47] <Bytram> back... and forth
[18:45:49] <Bytram> two things.
[18:46:02] <Bytram> 1) I like how easy it is to express things in your macro language
[18:46:35] <Bytram> 2) I shudder when I look at the generated HTML and think about trying to maintain that as just html
[18:47:10] <Bytram> 3) I count funny. How would you give an example of an abbr element?
[18:47:59] <fyngyrz> abbr needs some explicit stuff
[18:48:05] <Bytram> nodnod
[18:48:09] <fyngyrz> but there are macrso to make is simpler
[18:48:15] <fyngyrz> will add example
[18:48:35] <fyngyrz> remove italics because not much vertical room for full capture
[18:49:07] <Bytram> k
[18:49:12] <fyngyrz> will take a few minutes. You might want to get that nap
[18:49:19] <Bytram> #g wikipedia dog star
[18:49:19] <MrPlow> https://en.wikipedia.org - "Dog Star or Dogstar may refer to: Places[edit]. The Dog Star, Sirius, in the constellation Canis Major (Greater Dog). Art, entertainment, and media[edit]. Dogstar ..."
[18:50:00] <Bytram> lol
[18:53:39] <Bytram> do be aware that whatever is constructed for examples will ultimately be imbedded in (one or more) SoylentNews templates... which is a language unto its own.
[18:54:45] <fyngyrz> well, this just produces HTML
[18:54:47] <fyngyrz> you can embed whatever else in it, it won't be affected
[18:54:57] -!- fungus has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[18:55:27] <fyngyrz> ok, coming
[18:55:58] <fyngyrz> http://dojang.com
[18:56:06] -!- fungus [fungus!~ben@66.171.jo.vll] has joined #Soylent
[18:56:39] <Bytram> clicky
[18:58:46] <Bytram> my brain is struggling with seeing underlined text in the output.
[18:58:57] <fyngyrz> those are the hoverables
[18:59:03] <fyngyrz> same as on soylent
[18:59:25] <Bytram> As a user reading this, and who presumably knows nothing about HTML, it seems an unnecessary complication?
[18:59:49] <fyngyrz> your call. I like it, personally
[19:00:14] <fyngyrz> it's highly function, so there's that
[19:00:18] <fyngyrz> functional
[19:01:28] <Bytram> Yes, *I* understand that, but for an HTML newbie who only knows Plain-Old-Text? I dunno, but it seems like one more thing to see and try to make sense of while trying to garner an understanding of the basic stuff. Cognitive overload? Is that the terminology?
[19:01:45] <Bytram> Need to ponder on it for a while, methiinks.
[19:02:35] <fyngyrz> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[19:02:42] <Bytram> Also, the rendering of ABBR underlines on your screen is different than what I see in my browser, so that adds to my confusion/struggle.
[19:02:56] <Bytram> !woop
[19:02:56] <Bender> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[19:03:15] <Bytram> oh, btw,
[19:03:18] <Bytram> !uid
[19:03:18] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 7345, owned by panneer selvam
[19:04:39] <Bytram> we've been adding 2-4 new accts each day since Feb 1. About 50% more than historical averages!
[19:05:03] <Bytram> YYYY-MM count
[19:05:04] <Bytram> 2018-02 22
[19:05:05] <Bytram> 2018-03 29
[19:05:05] <Bytram> 2018-04 37
[19:05:05] <Bytram> 2018-05 24
[19:05:05] <Bytram> 2018-06 49
[19:05:05] <Bytram> 2018-07 45
[19:05:07] <Bytram> 2018-08 25
[19:05:09] <Bytram> 2018-09 41
[19:05:11] <Bytram> 2018-10 32
[19:05:13] <Bytram> 2018-11 30
[19:05:15] <Bytram> 2018-12 48
[19:05:17] <Bytram> 2019-01 57
[19:05:19] <Bytram> 2019-02 48
[19:05:24] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Environmental Impact of Music Streaming? - http://sylnt.us - it-makes-sense
[19:05:25] * Bytram hopes those are not sockpuppet accts
[19:12:06] * Bytram wanders off to prepare a bite to eat
[19:21:58] <fyngyrz> http://dojang.com
[19:24:12] <Bytram> you ARE quick!
[19:25:17] <Bytram> Can you make it look like this: https://dev.soylentnews.org ??
[19:25:18] <upstart> ^ 03Dev.SN Comments | HTML Element (tag) Tests ( https://dev.soylentnews.org )
[19:26:35] <Bytram> Upon reflection, I see my quick and dirty example lacks headers to make clear the information it is trying to impart. :/
[19:27:31] <Bytram> and, yes, in that example, the paragraph tags appear to be superfluous
[19:29:47] <Bytram> there is the complication that people can submit stories as "Plain Old Text" OR "HTML Formatted" OR Extrans (html tags to text) OR Code
[19:30:20] * Bytram does not *fully* understand the distinction between each of those.
[19:42:55] -!- icyfire [icyfire!~icyfire@13.90.ts.prq] has joined #Soylent
[19:45:07] <Bytram> #g el chapo
[19:45:08] <MrPlow> https://en.wikipedia.org - "Joaquín Archivaldo Guzmán Loera is a Mexican drug lord and former leader of the Sinaloa Cartel, an international crime syndicate. Known as \"El Chapo\" ..."
[19:53:46] <fyngyrz> I'm thinking that anyone who needs this kind of thing is probably - or should be - useing plain old text
[19:53:53] <fyngyrz> using
[19:54:22] <fyngyrz> Start the page with the advice that the explanations are in the context of "plain old text" and you're golden
[19:54:36] <fyngyrz> anyone who has chosen those others probably knows what they're doing
[19:56:07] <fyngyrz> also, there are bugs in the TFS submission page that process tags differently from everything else
[19:56:14] <fyngyrz> I've reported those previously
[19:56:26] <fyngyrz> but that's editor land, so I guess it doesn't matter much
[19:57:01] <fyngyrz> in the context we're talking about here
[20:09:56] <Bytram> fyngyrz: all are very good points. Suggests to me there should be a "master" page which gives that advice, as well as a meta description of what each of the explanation 'pages' contains. Would also help to have a consistent page layout for each explanation... one-line-synopsis, fuller in-depth treatment, syntax, and examples.
[20:10:17] <fyngyrz> agree
[20:15:24] -!- Runaway1956 [Runaway1956!~guy@69.57.mki.vun] has joined #Soylent
[20:16:57] <boru> What about accommodating people that want to submit stories in XML or JSON?
[20:17:11] <fyngyrz> screw that. They'll have to use APL
[20:17:41] <boru> Or my favourite IRC trend as of late, sharing plaintext in image format.
[20:17:57] <boru> i.e. people asking for help with their code listing, and using imgur instead of a paste site.
[20:18:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> we already have a json parser/builder built in because of having to use it for Stripe. taking submissions in json would be pretty easy.
[20:18:21] <boru> You monster.
[20:18:27] <fyngyrz> :)
[20:18:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> i was thinking of for the api, if i didn't already build it like that.
[20:19:18] <AndyTheAbsurd> boru: I have a co-worker that does that...fortunately he moved from a "developer" position to "scrum master" position, so now I don't have to deal with him much.
[20:19:35] <boru> Lucky save, man.
[20:20:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> the roomie has taken up writing his tweets on post-its with a fountain pen, taking pictures of them, and uploading the pictures
[20:20:11] <AndyTheAbsurd> it's like...dude...why are you going to EXTRA EFFORT to send me an image when you could have sent me the text of the code/error message/whatever and IT WOULD ACTUALLY BE SEARCHABLE WHEN YOU ASK ME TO FIND IT LATER.
[20:20:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[20:20:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[20:20:50] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 689
[20:20:54] <boru> It seems to be a common trend with n00bs in language-specific channels over on sillynode.
[20:22:33] <fyngyrz> We oughta start a trend where the way to post is use turtle graphics instructions to draw your characters.
[20:22:50] <Bytram> steganography? Or, maybe in their case, stegasaurusography? (Dinosaurs stuck in the dark ages)
[20:22:51] <fyngyrz> if you're posting ACM you gotta use turtles
[20:22:56] <fyngyrz> AC
[20:23:00] <Bytram> all. the. way. down.
[20:23:05] <FatPhil> boru: 'er indoors was once sent a word document containing a screenshot of some application showing some text.
[20:23:14] <fyngyrz> We'll call it "Yurtle mode"
[20:23:39] <boru> I usually ask them to upload a video of their code to youtube.
[20:23:45] <fyngyrz> we can test it on RDT
[20:23:46] <boru> So I can see it scrolling.
[20:24:17] <FatPhil> more secure that way, as they can authenticate with a selfie shot
[20:24:32] <fyngyrz> gonna have to limit the turtle to 9x7 regions so they don't make huge drawings
[20:24:48] -!- guy_ [guy_!~guy@69.57.mki.vun] has joined #Soylent
[20:24:49] <fyngyrz> I THINK THIS COULD WORK!!!
[20:24:50] <boru> What if it's a picture of a picture?
[20:24:56] <fyngyrz> in 9x7?
[20:25:13] <fyngyrz> ok, look. We'll give em 5x7
[20:25:34] <fyngyrz> actually, back in the day, I wrote a 3x4 font
[20:25:47] <fyngyrz> it... worked. :)
[20:25:57] <boru> I think the picture should have a written timestamp in the image, also, for extra security.
[20:26:01] <fyngyrz> was a little claustrophobic
[20:26:11] <fyngyrz> and the IP hash
[20:26:41] <boru> And a fingerprint of their public key.
[20:26:48] <fyngyrz> no, 5x7. No point in being cruel. We're good people.
[20:26:53] <Bytram> 5x7... did that. 3x4? Zoinks!
[20:27:04] <FatPhil> fyngyrz: that's nothing - g/f's blind and can write in a 3x2 font!
[20:27:08] * FatPhil winnnnnz
[20:27:10] <fyngyrz> yeah, it was low res days, m bruther
[20:27:37] <Bytram> lemme see... pre-Hercules adapter, I take it?
[20:27:42] <fyngyrz> bring her on a tech consultant
[20:27:47] -!- Runaway1956 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[20:28:08] <fyngyrz> pre hercules? I'm talking 256x200 SWTPC display unit
[20:28:16] <fyngyrz> I think it was 256
[20:28:21] <fyngyrz> It might have been less
[20:28:26] <fyngyrz> 1970's
[20:28:43] <FatPhil> my 380Z had higher res than that I'm sure
[20:29:09] <Bytram> omg...
[20:29:23] <Bytram> southwest technical products?
[20:30:01] <FatPhil> Yeah, I had High resolution: 320×192 pixels, 2 bits per pixel
[20:30:09] <Bytram> !woop
[20:30:09] <Bender> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[20:30:16] <FatPhil> Research Machines
[20:30:22] <Bytram> sounds like an S-100 system
[20:30:39] <FatPhil> https://en.wikipedia.org
[20:30:40] <upstart> ^ 03RM Education - Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org )
[20:30:55] * Bytram is absolutely astonished he not only recognized that, but remembered but what it stood for, too!
[20:30:57] <Bytram> heh
[20:31:07] <Bytram> ${abbr SWTPC}
[20:31:07] <fungus> SWTPC
[20:31:10] <Bytram> =)
[20:31:16] <Bytram> ${abbr SWTP}
[20:31:16] <fungus> SWTP
[20:31:22] <Bytram> j/k
[20:32:09] <FatPhil> nothing to do with SWTPC AFAIK
[20:32:22] <boru> Or SWPC!
[20:32:23] <Bytram> oh. :/
[20:32:53] <fyngyrz> {abbr SWTPC}
[20:32:53] <fungus> <abbr title="SouthWest Technical Products Corporation (6800, 6809 micros)">SWTPC</abbr>
[20:33:01] <Bytram> =)
[20:33:11] <boru> Great series of chips
[20:33:22] <FatPhil> SUperficially, it did look like https://upload.wikimedia.org but it was an CP/M on Z80 box
[20:33:37] <fyngyrz> 6809 was the best 8-bitter ever produced, by leaps and bounds
[20:33:54] <Bytram> 6502++
[20:33:54] <Bender> karma - 6502: 3
[20:34:07] <fyngyrz> but it was a seriously complex random logic design, and that pushed it into a dead end
[20:34:38] <fyngyrz> microcoded CPUs took off, and that was the end of spending years cobbling up CPUs
[20:34:38] <boru> 68XX was great, yeah. 8051 had some cool features for the era, though.
[20:34:48] <boru> e.g. bitbanding.
[20:35:06] <FatPhil> 6502++
[20:35:06] <Bender> karma - 6502: 4
[20:35:12] <FatPhil> 68xx++
[20:35:12] <Bender> karma - 68xx: 1
[20:35:21] <Bytram> FatPhil++ =)
[20:35:21] <Bender> karma - fatphil: 36
[20:35:36] <FatPhil> boru: what's bitbanding?
[20:36:03] <boru> Memory bank mapped to individual bits in another range.
[20:36:13] <boru> Let me try to illustrate this
[20:36:32] <Bytram> fat table for memory?
[20:36:44] <fyngyrz> https://spin.atomicobject.com
[20:36:45] <upstart> ^ 03Bit-banding – An Elegant Approach to Setting & Clearing Bits
[20:36:52] <FatPhil> CGA had planar memory access
[20:36:53] <boru> That'll save me typing it out.
[20:37:08] <boru> Lots of micros use it these days.
[20:37:12] <FatPhil> sounds superficially similar, will have a read
[20:37:26] <boru> It's atomic, and computationally cheap.
[20:37:37] <fyngyrz> I liked on of the features of the 1802
[20:37:41] <fyngyrz> one of
[20:37:56] <fyngyrz> really seriously orthogonal
[20:38:27] <boru> You didn't need to RMW with bitbanding.
[20:38:36] <boru> Didn't/don't.
[20:38:47] <boru> I haven't used an 1802.
[20:39:07] <fyngyrz> was an early CMOS MPU
[20:39:13] <FatPhil> looks like it's only atomic if you want to modify only one bit, but not otherwise.
[20:39:22] <boru> Of course.
[20:39:29] <fyngyrz> Any one of the 16 registers of the 1802 microprocessor could be set as a data pointer register or program counter.
[20:39:59] <boru> That must've made writing compilers fun...
[20:40:07] <fyngyrz> you could do some really fast (for the day) context switches
[20:40:23] <fyngyrz> not aware of any compilers for it
[20:40:28] <fyngyrz> this was very early days
[20:40:47] <boru> Yeah, contrary to popular opinion, I liked the register window feature on sparc.
[20:40:53] <boru> Hmm
[20:41:18] <FatPhil> CGA's planes were way more powerful (but annoying in their own way)
[20:41:19] <boru> Not even algol?
[20:41:23] <fyngyrz> we wrote in ASM
[20:41:24] -!- guy__ [guy__!~guy@69.57.mki.vun] has joined #Soylent
[20:41:26] <boru> Or fortran?
[20:41:34] <fyngyrz> nope
[20:41:36] <FatPhil> one write would happily simultaniously write multiple target bytes.
[20:41:39] <Bytram> so, in theory, you could have ~7(?) simultaneous processes that you could swap between? (Depending on store/recall protocols for saving registers between processes)
[20:41:49] <fyngyrz> yep
[20:42:01] <Bytram> kewel beans
[20:42:11] <fyngyrz> you could have 15 if you were willing to use just one register for data
[20:42:17] <boru> Was there even a concept of calling convention in that case?
[20:42:23] <FatPhil> boru: what do you think of /The Mill/ arch, if you like register windows?
[20:42:53] <Bytram> 15 simultaneous processes? Zounds
[20:43:01] <boru> I'm only vaguely familiar with.
[20:43:06] <fyngyrz> typically, you'd pick a register as a stack pointer and just use it that way
[20:43:10] * Bytram gives up on staying awake... heads off for a nap
[20:43:22] <Bytram> brilliant!
[20:43:38] <Bytram> laters!
[20:43:38] <fyngyrz> or-fucking-thoganal. :)
[20:43:47] -!- guy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[20:44:34] <fyngyrz> there was a silicon-on-sapphire version that was radiation hardened. We used it for early spacecraft
[20:45:04] <boru> Yeah, Si on sapphire is still the prefered substrate for rad hard.
[20:45:07] <fyngyrz> as a CMOS device, it was prone to flipping bits otherwise
[20:45:14] * boru nods.
[20:45:36] <boru> Who were you working with?
[20:45:38] <fyngyrz> I have an early 1802 board in my classic computer collection
[20:45:44] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - A 4.7 km Asteroid May Briefly Occult the Brightest Star in the Night Sky - http://sylnt.us - playing-cat-and-mouse-with-the-dog-star
[20:45:52] <fyngyrz> contractor for the military
[20:46:02] <boru> Interesting.
[20:46:02] <fyngyrz> and... others
[20:46:16] <fyngyrz> TLAs
[20:46:20] * boru nods.
[20:46:41] <boru> I'm about to depart the EO industry.
[20:46:49] <fyngyrz> re\tiring?
[20:47:08] <boru> Just changing industry.
[20:47:10] <fyngyrz> ah
[20:47:32] <boru> I've been space->semicoductors->space and now on to astronomy.
[20:47:38] <fyngyrz> oh fun
[20:47:47] <boru> Semiconductors, even.
[20:48:14] <fyngyrz> I do common-man's astrophotography; I did a lot of work with stacking development
[20:48:22] <boru> Heh, same as myself.
[20:48:28] <fyngyrz> sec...
[20:48:29] <boru> Mostly narrowband stuff.
[20:48:51] <boru> I wrote a program to find new supernovae in optical data.
[20:49:00] <boru> That's one of my hobbies.
[20:49:02] <fyngyrz> bare camera:
[20:49:02] <fyngyrz> https://www.flickr.com
[20:49:04] <upstart> ^ 03Astro (tracked) ( https://www.flickr.com )
[20:49:17] <fyngyrz> barn door tracking device
[20:49:39] -!- guy__ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[20:49:42] <boru> I've got some of 'pretty picture' stuff knocking around somewhere. Bear with me...
[20:49:56] <fyngyrz> Untracked, but often stacked, from beginner to fairly good work:
[20:49:57] <fyngyrz> https://www.flickr.com
[20:49:59] <upstart> ^ 03Astro (untracked) ( https://www.flickr.com )
[20:51:09] <fyngyrz> One of my favs:
[20:51:10] <fyngyrz> https://www.flickr.com
[20:51:11] <upstart> ^ 03McNaught C/2009 R1 Comet
[20:51:26] <fyngyrz> 107 frames
[20:51:30] <fyngyrz> both tails!
[20:52:13] <boru> Some of my hydrogen alpha emission stuff: https://imgur.com
[20:52:14] <upstart> ^ 03Imgur
[20:52:16] <boru> @ 3nm FWHM
[20:52:39] <boru> Man, I wish I had a Bayer matrix so I could shoot comets.
[20:52:47] <boru> They're really neat.
[20:52:54] <fyngyrz> not seeing any images on that page
[20:53:00] <boru> That's the real typical green comet colour
[20:53:22] <boru> Hmm, says they're all uploaded here
[20:53:27] <boru> Try refreshing perhaps?
[20:53:36] <fyngyrz> yep, there it is
[20:53:45] <boru> There should be a bunch of them.
[20:53:55] <fyngyrz> yes
[20:54:06] <fyngyrz> noice horsehead
[20:54:34] <boru> CCD's a KAF8300, filter is 3nm Ha emission, OTA's a Takahashi FSQ 106, and William Optics FLT110.
[20:54:54] <boru> Mostly 180m exposures integrated
[20:55:02] <fyngyrz> the shot of the Orion nebula, too...
[20:55:18] <boru> Yeah, M42's kind of the hello world of DSOs
[20:55:22] <fyngyrz> Those are beautiful
[20:56:23] <fyngyrz> I have one I love... Orion, flame nebula, horsehead and a comet:
[20:56:29] <fyngyrz> https://www.flickr.com
[20:56:31] <upstart> ^ 03Orion, flame, horsehead and a comet!
[20:56:51] <boru> Nice capture!
[20:57:00] <boru> Man, I'd love to shoot comets.
[20:57:02] <fyngyrz> 200mm Canon lens...
[20:57:10] <FatPhil> The only thing I have worth looking at at all is this *handheld* (rather well braced, obviously) http://fatphil.org
[20:57:13] <fyngyrz> 9 frames
[20:57:24] <boru> Impressive SNR
[20:57:25] <fyngyrz> I had NO idea the comet was there till I got home
[20:57:40] <boru> That's pretty good going, FatPhil.
[20:57:56] <FatPhil> our air is so terrible here, there's no point even considering anything smaller than a death star
[20:58:02] <fyngyrz> yes, very nice FatPhil
[20:58:13] <FatPhil> literally, a clear night means I see 20 stars
[20:58:20] <boru> You think _your_ seeing is bad? These were all shot in the west of Ireland!
[20:58:36] <boru> The atmosphere is far from conducive to astronomy there!
[20:58:45] -!- mrpg [mrpg!~Thunderbi@Soylent/Staff/Editor/mrpg] has joined #Soylent
[20:58:45] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v mrpg] by Aphrodite
[20:58:45] <fyngyrz> I have actual dark skies, I feel bad for you two
[20:59:08] <boru> At home in Ireland, I've got Bortle 1 skies, it's just cloudy all the time.
[20:59:21] <boru> Alas, I'm on tour, and about to move again.
[20:59:47] <boru> I'll be spending a bit of time in the Atacama in my next job, so I'm hoping I'll get to drag my imaging kit along with me.
[20:59:51] <FatPhil> Ah, we get "clear nights", there was one 2 days ago. the moon was still fuzzy
[21:00:16] <fyngyrz> clouds, the moon, and humidity in general are my main bugaboos
[21:00:46] <fyngyrz> I wrote an astro weather webapp to help me out.
[21:00:46] <boru> I've long advocated coating the moon with vantablack, or deorbiting it entirely.
[21:00:52] <FatPhil> fyngyrz: nice pics - particularly the tracked ones!
[21:01:05] <boru> As well as ablating Earth's atmosphere.
[21:01:17] <fyngyrz> thanks FP
[21:01:18] <fyngyrz> https://www.flickr.com
[21:01:20] <upstart> ^ 03Astrotron now available - free / PD
[21:01:56] <fyngyrz> the apps dead now, too many of the data sources have changed format
[21:02:21] <boru> I can relate. I used to pull those spaceweather sources from NOAA, SOHO, SDO et al.
[21:02:28] <boru> It's annoying when they move stuff around...
[21:02:33] <fyngyrz> it is
[21:03:14] <fyngyrz> I would like to rewrite that in a more modular, updatable fashion, but time, alas, is short and I can't shoot astro anymore anyway
[21:03:40] <fyngyrz> The gauges library by itself is worthy
[21:03:49] <boru> As one of my many, many project, I'm writing something tangentially related, but it's a long ways to go.
[21:04:01] <fyngyrz> one lib built all those... super easy
[21:04:12] <fyngyrz> Python FTW
[21:04:27] * boru is aghast
[21:04:51] <fyngyrz> why?
[21:04:57] <fyngyrz> Python?
[21:05:04] <boru> Oh, I'm just an elitist language bigot.
[21:05:09] <fyngyrz> lol
[21:05:15] <fyngyrz> and you would prefer?
[21:05:43] <boru> Depends on the task at hand, but I'm a big Forth fan boy.
[21:05:50] <fyngyrz> Oh, I love Forth
[21:06:01] <boru> You have redeemed yourself!
[21:06:08] <fyngyrz> wrote myself a Forth interpreter for the 6809 back in the day
[21:06:15] <boru> Nice!
[21:06:24] <boru> I still have my hard listing of figForth for the 6809!
[21:06:44] <FatPhil> fyngyrz: blimey - McNaught C/2009 R1 Comet is superb - two clear trails indeed
[21:06:50] <FatPhil> fyngyrz++
[21:06:50] <Bender> karma - fyngyrz: 9
[21:06:50] <fyngyrz> and my macro language is somewhat Forth-like:
[21:06:51] <fyngyrz> http://ourtimelines.com
[21:06:51] <upstart> ^ 03General
[21:06:54] <fyngyrz> Thank you FP
[21:06:55] <boru> Forth is a wonderful language to implement a compiler for.
[21:07:20] <FatPhil> you only need to emplement 3 primitives, and then the rest writes itself!
[21:07:21] <fyngyrz> compilers in 64k tend to be... challenging
[21:07:38] <boru> 64k is plenty for a Forth implementation.
[21:07:46] <boru> Perhaps not ANS Forth conformant, but still.
[21:08:03] <fyngyrz> yeah, figforth is in my 6809 emulation:
[21:08:07] <fyngyrz> http://datapipe-blackbeltsystems.com
[21:08:07] <upstart> ^ 03Black Belt Systems Windows Software Archive ( http://datapipe-blackbeltsystems.com )
[21:08:19] <FatPhil> Jupiter Ace had forth as its default language on a 64K address space Z80
[21:08:22] <boru> Like Charles Moore said (or was it Leo Brodie?) -- "when you've seen one Forth implementation, you've seen...one Forth implementation"
[21:08:30] <fyngyrz> lol yes
[21:08:50] <fyngyrz> Forth builds itself though
[21:09:10] <fyngyrz> pulls itself up by its own bootstraps
[21:09:35] <fyngyrz> sigh. Those were fun days
[21:09:36] <boru> Yeah, Forth rocks.
[21:09:37] <FatPhil> not dissimilar to LISP in that regard - once you have the repl, you have the language
[21:13:48] <fyngyrz> I have a paper tape with 6800 tiny basic on it. :)
[21:13:59] <fyngyrz> /random
[21:36:14] <FatPhil> I still have a couple of dozen 8" floppies from my 380Z
[21:36:39] <FatPhil> I had twin 8" drives - no swapping of disks at runtime!
[21:37:00] <boru> I've got a hard listing of a pascal compiler for the 6809 as well.
[21:37:03] <FatPhil> drive unit - something like 30+kg
[21:38:22] <boru> These are treasures, man
[21:46:58] -!- mrpg has quit [Quit: close - bye]
[21:47:59] <fyngyrz> to us few, anyway
[21:48:09] <boru> True enough.
[21:48:47] <fyngyrz> I have fully operational ss-50/6809 and S100/8080 systems. The 6809 has 5" floppies, and the 8080 has 8".
[21:49:28] <fyngyrz> I *had* an Altair 680, but someone offered my 8 grand for it and I gave in
[21:49:53] <boru> You've got a pretty great collection.
[21:50:09] <fyngyrz> yeah, lotta years. Gonna die and it'll go nowhere, probably
[21:50:45] <boru> The same with us all and our sundry collections.
[21:50:52] <fyngyrz> yup
[21:51:25] <fyngyrz> I've got a listing of everything with a general sense of the values for my SO, so she can sell em on EBay or whatever
[21:51:34] <boru> I've got books, firearms, computers, astronomical equipment, all of which I intend to donate to appropriate institutions for posterity, but I'm under no illusion that I'll not be taking it with me, so to speak.
[21:51:44] <fyngyrz> pretty sure she's going to outlast me by quite a margin
[21:52:20] <boru> It's admirable that you've thought that far ahead, such that they don't end up being dumped or gathering dust somewhere.
[21:52:24] <fyngyrz> I've done some donations, then watched in horror as the various orgs went under and my shit was lost to whereever
[21:52:28] <fyngyrz> so I quit
[21:52:37] <boru> Yuck. That's awful.
[21:52:40] <fyngyrz> was
[21:52:43] <fyngyrz> don't do it any more
[21:52:46] * boru nods.
[21:52:48] -!- Web_weasel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[21:53:58] <fyngyrz> I have a ~400 lb single smokey quartz crystal I will probably will to the NY museum of natural history. Otherwise, the stuff is hers
[21:55:09] <boru> That's...a beast.
[21:55:20] <boru> Did you find it?
[21:55:21] <fyngyrz> https://www.flickr.com
[21:55:23] <upstart> ^ 03Smokey Quartz in the afternoon sun
[21:55:24] <fyngyrz> yes
[21:55:35] <boru> Sheesh.
[21:56:00] <fyngyrz> finding it wasn't too involved, just lucky. Collecting it was awful
[21:56:10] <boru> I bet.
[21:56:39] <fyngyrz> with cat:
[21:56:39] <fyngyrz> https://www.flickr.com
[21:56:42] <upstart> ^ 03Smokey Quartz in the afternoon sun 2
[21:57:36] <fyngyrz> reminds me, need to get to lawyer about some of that. sigh. never ends.
[21:57:53] <boru> Has the cat claimed ownership?
[21:57:59] <fyngyrz> anyway, outa here. Lunch and the like. ttyl
[21:58:05] <boru> Catch you later man.
[21:58:09] <fyngyrz> no, and cat has, most sadly, expired
[21:58:16] <boru> Ah, for shame
[21:58:19] <fyngyrz> miss her terrible
[21:58:23] <fyngyrz> yeah.
[21:58:27] <fyngyrz> we do have 5 more :)
[21:58:38] <fyngyrz> but she was awesome
[21:58:43] <fyngyrz> /gone
[21:58:52] <boru> Rgr. See you around.
[22:26:31] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - 2.1-Billion-Year-Old Fossil may be Evidence of Earliest Moving Life-Form - http://sylnt.us - deeply-moving-story
[22:32:49] <FatPhil> boru: do you listen to any British Bullshit Corporation broadcasts? Did you catch the latest News Quiz? If not, and you want a laugh at the expense of Brits - here you go: https://www.bbc.co.uk
[22:32:52] <upstart> ^ 03BBC Radio 4 - Friday Night Comedy from BBC Radio 4 - Downloads
[22:33:40] <boru> JFC, I am insulted, that you would think that I would subject myself to garbage like the BBC.
[22:34:40] <boru> The only thing they produce that doesn't have a political slant is David Attenborough documentaries.
[22:34:57] <FatPhil> wow - those are very political, just not partisan!
[22:35:25] <boru> Don't be an arse!
[22:35:40] <FatPhil> but yes, the News Quiz is very political. And politicians live in dread of their name being mentioned, so you might like it.
[22:36:02] <boru> Reminds me a bit of Scrap Saturday or Bull Island in Ireland.
[22:36:43] <FatPhil> I think well over 50% of my televisual entertainment is comedic reviews of current affairs now.
[22:36:50] <FatPhil> probably closer to 75%
[22:37:54] <boru> Ah yes, the key to misery.
[22:38:13] <FatPhil> Nah, it's a bubbling jakuzi of hilarity
[22:38:27] <FatPhil> as long as you don't take a step back and think about reality
[22:38:37] <boru> Therein lies the problem.
[22:39:07] <FatPhil> John Oliver did slap some apprehension into me with this week's Last Week Tonight.
[22:39:18] <FatPhil> His main section was the obvious.
[22:39:42] <FatPhil> It shouldn't affect me at all, I'm literally the other side of the political continent.
[22:39:48] <FatPhil> but...
[22:40:00] <boru> I will be content with retiring into the Alps, living off the land, and joining a mountain expeditionary militia when SHTF.
[22:40:12] <FatPhil> How are feelings in the Emerald Isle?
[22:40:18] <boru> Don't get me started.
[22:40:27] * FatPhil retreats
[22:40:35] <boru> The world seems to think that Dublin == Ireland in terms of political opinion.
[22:40:39] <boru> Free state scum.
[22:41:57] <FatPhil> Quite similar to Estonia perhaps. There's one dense built up region, and then the rest of the place.
[22:42:03] * boru nods.
[22:42:24] <boru> I work with some rural Estis. They tell me something similar.
[22:43:51] <FatPhil> my best mate here did spend a while working in Ireland, seems a popular destination.
[22:44:04] <boru> Well, so long as you stay clear of the cities.
[22:44:23] <boru> Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway, Belfast. Outside of there, you'll be doing alright.
[22:44:46] <boru> Galway county, Mayo, Donegal -- that's real Ireland.
[22:45:26] <FatPhil> he grabbed a (menial) job amongst free state scum for a lot of the time. Free state scum with the surnames "Wong" and "Lee".
[22:46:07] <boru> Sounds about right. Massive Polish, Chinese, Brazilian and Nigerian communities in Ireland.
[22:46:07] <FatPhil> Or may have been "Singh" and "Kahn", I forget. However, it served the full range.
[22:46:20] <boru> Well, in the cities.
[22:46:49] <FatPhil> This would have been 15-20 years ago
[22:47:10] <boru> It was starting around then.
[22:47:21] <boru> The Brazilians are alright, though.
[22:47:24] <FatPhil> we were last there (Dublin, and the nice places) 2006
[22:47:27] <boru> They integrated well.
[22:47:58] <boru> Dublin is truly the arse of Ireland.
[22:48:05] <boru> Objectively the worst part of the country.
[22:48:21] <FatPhil> Tons of Brazilians in Finland, loads in my (greater) team at Nokia. Great guys with no exception.
[22:48:47] -!- Bytram_ [Bytram_!~aec02094@164.sub-645-613-89.myvzw.com] has joined #Soylent
[22:49:08] <FatPhil> Alas, it seems a lot went back to Brazil when Nokia imploded.
[22:49:19] <boru> I'm above in Glasgow now, albeit not for much longer. I'll be absconding now again in a few months
[22:49:42] <FatPhil> when you get kicked out as a foreigner in 6 weeks!
[22:50:02] <boru> Heh, Ireland has agreements in that regard which predate the EU.
[22:50:13] <boru> But that's only one of many reasons for my fecking off.
[22:51:01] <FatPhil> Estonia has promised "Brits living here will not be affected, we'll work things out".
[22:52:43] <boru> Expats are usually the 'sent best', so no surprises there.
[22:52:55] <boru> Emphasis on usually, naturally.
[22:53:04] <FatPhil> they're rapists!
[22:53:14] <boru> Western European expats. There, qualified.
[22:53:25] * Bytram_ is sitting in a bus outside his apartment building while waiting (may be a few hours) for the 'all clear' following a fire in his building.
[22:53:43] <FatPhil> ewww
[22:53:44] <boru> Shit, how bad was the fire?
[22:54:58] <Bytram_> Just one unit afaik,
[22:55:18] <Bytram_> I am on top floo4 away from it
[22:55:39] <Bytram_> May be some isues woh th smell of smoke
[22:55:50] <boru> Nothing an ozone generator can't solve.
[22:55:53] <Bytram_> But no worries of water damage
[22:56:34] <FatPhil> it can be rather carcinogenic, if your books are smoky - replace them on the insurance, they'll never lose that smell.
[22:56:43] <Bytram_> Xould have bern MUCH worse.
[22:56:53] <Bytram_> Was in faytime
[22:57:03] <boru> Ozone genies will do surprising work.
[22:57:03] <Bytram_> Dsytime.
[22:57:20] <Bytram_> Sry... phone kbd with fat fingers
[22:57:42] <Bytram_> Only a few
[22:57:42] <FatPhil> english has built in error correction
[22:57:47] <boru> Aye, touchscreens are a pain in an arse.
[22:57:58] <Bytram_> Xouple hundred yarfs from fire station
[22:58:00] <boru> The arse, even. Sheesh.
[22:58:05] * boru puts the cork back in the calvados.
[22:58:24] <FatPhil> ahah - that explains the forthrightness earlier!
[22:58:48] <boru> Indeed, you get unfiltered boru.
[22:59:10] -!- Runaway1956 [Runaway1956!~guy@69.57.mki.vun] has joined #Soylent
[22:59:12] <exec> welcome Runaway1956: Dallas, TX, 6°C/43°F, 4:59 pm CST, Monday, 18 February 2019
[22:59:28] <FatPhil> have another glass and then listen to (the first segment of) the News Quiz
[22:59:45] <boru> Pft, I will bloody not.
[23:00:12] <FatPhil> you don't like laughing at my expense?
[23:00:18] <boru> Well, I won't listen to the News Quiz, at least.
[23:00:27] <FatPhil> (well, my ageing dad's expense)
[23:00:42] <FatPhil> (and my sister's, and my 2 nephews')
[23:00:51] <boru> I will when the UK becomes the anglo-saxon containment zone.
[23:01:31] <FatPhil> Ahhh, with you there. But that's not "U" any more. Do you want a free Cornwall too?
[23:01:43] <boru> Of course.
[23:02:03] <FatPhil> My theory is that the UK would be about perfect if it was 7 separate countries.
[23:02:26] -!- Bytram_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[23:02:40] <boru> Where only England and Wales constituted the 'UK', sure.
[23:04:19] <FatPhil> I'm aiming for 5M-10M "countries", and no "U" - the "EU" is all the "U" needed.
[23:04:44] <boru> I consider even that to be a push.
[23:04:49] <FatPhil> Basically, London would be its own country!
[23:05:07] <boru> Freedom of movement and no import duty I can get behind, but it ends there.
[23:05:32] <FatPhil> I don't believe any country is truly functional (w.r.t. representation, knowledge of what's happening, etc.) if it's over about 7M people.
[23:05:50] <boru> I agree.
[23:07:13] <FatPhil> I like the "alignment" of laws, but it doesn't need to be *identical* laws. The ECHR was a great (British!) invention, for example.
[23:07:25] <FatPhil> actually, that's not an example of that at all.
[23:08:41] <boru> I have controversial opinions about many of these EU mandates.
[23:09:21] <boru> Firearms, agriculture, medicine etc.
[23:09:36] <FatPhil> Travelling to a neighbouring country for an abortion, for example, is an anacronism that's past its BB date.
[23:10:50] <boru> That's one old chestnut that falls into the former category.
[23:11:21] -!- guy_ [guy_!~guy@69.57.mki.vun] has joined #Soylent
[23:12:15] <FatPhil> Time for some go-to-bed telly - Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle S04E04 "Death"
[23:12:31] <boru> Comedy? Sounds awful.
[23:12:36] <FatPhil> nighty-night (until I wake up in 2 hours...)
[23:12:42] <boru> I suppose I should get my arse off to bed soon, as well.
[23:12:47] <boru> Aye, catch you later.
[23:12:56] <FatPhil> Were the next ten million the worst too?
[23:13:31] <boru> Quite right.
[23:14:11] -!- Runaway1956 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[23:14:58] <FatPhil> Hahah - after the astro chat earlier, you might like how that episode starts!
[23:15:30] <boru> Probably not. In fact, as an astronomer, the televised depictions of the topic have left me deeply jaded.
[23:27:06] -!- Bytram_ [Bytram_!~a6b6f4e0@166.182.nrv.hsh] has joined #Soylent
[23:27:32] <Bytram_> Back. Had issues with my signal.
[23:30:17] <Bytram_> Irc is... challenging in a mobile browser
[23:30:41] <boru> Are you using a client or SSH'ing into some other box?
[23:31:21] <boru> When I had the unfortunate experience of needing to SSH via android, Hacker's Keyboard and Connectbot were the least frustrating.
[23:32:31] <Bytram_> Using the IRC link in the slashbox on the main page
[23:32:59] <boru> Rough.
[23:33:12] <Bytram_> Woof!!
[23:33:33] <boru> You're barking up the wrong tree with your puns.
[23:34:19] <Bytram_> Meow?
[23:34:32] <boru> Are you feline okay?
[23:35:21] <Bytram_> Feline purrfectly ok
[23:36:31] <Bytram_> Lookslike mrpg c
[23:37:19] <Bytram_> * took care of the story queue for a while... yay!
[23:41:56] <Bytram_> Atm am @ a nearby convenience store so am out of the cold!
[23:42:25] <boru> Still can't get into your building?
[23:42:55] <Bytram_> Correct
[23:43:45] <boru> May as well find yourself a half-way decent café and get a decent mug of coffee.
[23:45:05] <Bytram_> Just found out might not be sble to get back in tonight.
[23:45:22] <boru> Wtf?
[23:45:32] <Bytram_> Yup.
[23:45:55] <boru> Have you got somewhere else to shack up?
[23:46:05] <Bytram_> Building is secured until investigation is complete.
[23:46:58] <Bytram_> Have family nearby, not a great problem for me.
[23:47:07] <boru> Good.
[23:47:21] <Bytram_> Yup.
[23:47:34] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Study Blames YouTube for Rise in Number of Flat Earthers - http://sylnt.us - I-blame-YOU
[23:49:13] <boru> ++ on that story. On a cursory browse of YT recently for some atmospheric phenomenon, the amount of pseudoscientific and chemtrail tier conspiracy nonsense was incredible.
[23:51:31] -!- Bytram_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]