#Soylent | Logs for 2019-01-15
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[01:06:25] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - AMD Announces Radeon VII GPU, Teases Third-Generation Ryzen CPU - http://sylnt.us - more-and-faster-and-cheaper...how'd-they-do-that?
[02:10:52] <Bytram> #g there are dozens of us
[02:10:53] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com - "Apr 10, 2011 ... I do NOT own this, FOX does. You can watch Arrested Development on Hulu, and is readily available on DVD (all three seasons). Come on!"
[02:11:15] <Bytram> https://www.youtube.com
[02:11:16] <upstart> ^ 03There are dozens of us... DOZENS
[02:45:40] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Eugeniu Iordachescu, Engineer who Moved Bucharest's Centuries-Old Churches, has Died at 89 - http://sylnt.us - mostly-moving-story
[03:31:43] <chromas> kodi-- # hogging all my CPUs while idle
[03:31:43] <Bender> karma - kodi: -1
[03:38:52] <Bytram> well, if YOU are not using them, something else might just as well do so, alt-right?
[03:41:19] <Bytram> break time
[04:26:58] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Airlander 10: World's Longest Aircraft Gets Full-Production Go-Ahead - http://sylnt.us - is-a-big-aircraft-a-big-deal?
[04:35:23] <Bytram> bedtime for bonzo...
[04:35:45] <Bytram> as for myself, I'm heading to bed
[04:35:59] <Bytram> have a great night everyone
[05:56:06] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Russia Loses Control of Only Space Telescope - http://sylnt.us - what-are-you-looking-at?
[07:26:17] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Russia Plans to Tackle US Sanctions With $10 Billion Bitcoin Investment - http://sylnt.us - GPU-prices-going-back-up-again?
[09:07:04] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Intel Core i9-9990XE: Up to 5.0 GHz, Auction Only; AMD Radeon VII: Less Than 5,000 Available - http://sylnt.us - Not-available-in-stores!
[10:10:44] <boru> Jesus christ. What is it with companies turning their websites into videos these days? Just when you thought the web couldn't get anymore annoying.
[10:15:54] <FatPhil> boru: blank pages are still the most common for me.
[10:16:25] <boru> Ah, good old javascript censorship, eh? "If you don't allow us to spy on you, we're not going to show you our webpage, so there!"
[10:16:58] <FatPhil> Two sub-types in particular: the all-blank apart from a large spinner .gif type, and the seems-like-80-pages-of-blankness type.
[10:17:22] <FatPhil> Both occasionally can be solved with a "no style sheets" fix.
[10:17:56] <boru> Why is it so difficult for them to understand that I just want the bloody information, not all of the artistic wank they shove down your pipe.
[10:18:05] <FatPhil> I've just encountered a rather wacky date format on a website: "Jan 15, 2019 2019"
[10:18:28] <FatPhil> At least they'll not suffer from the y2k2k problem.
[10:18:32] <boru> Sounds like someone confused strftime formatting with some other language's.
[10:18:44] <boru> Conflated, perhaps.
[10:18:53] <FatPhil> compounded
[10:19:01] <FatPhil> conjoined!
[10:19:04] <boru> Adequate.
[10:21:32] <FatPhil> Hahah, I've just noticed that that date is in what would traditionally be called a table, in a date column, and therefore would be considered a good candidate as a <td>. But oh, no, not in today's internet: <div class="td ng-binding">Jan 15, 2019 2019</div>
[10:21:50] <FatPhil> The internet could have been good. Why did it turn out this way?!?
[10:22:28] <boru> Because of the web.
[10:22:32] <boru> And web developers.
[10:22:41] <boru> And shitty web technologies being rammed into everything.
[10:23:25] <boru> They've made inroads into the embedded world now, with this i-cant-believe-its-not-another-dot-com-bubble shite called the Internet of Toys.
[10:24:01] <boru> Web servers everywhere, requiring applications processors that burn more power than the rest of the device combined, because they wanted a restful interface to turn your lights green.
[10:24:13] <boru> I'm not bitter, honest.
[10:25:01] <boru> It's just that no one seems to notice that facebook intergration into your connected toilet has no immediate use whatsoever.
[10:26:41] <FatPhil> Would you be happier if they rebanded themselves /Arsebook/?
[10:28:16] <boru> I already perform that substitution in my head.
[10:32:11] <FatPhil> Yeah, I'm not sure why a trivial get/set interface for an 8-bit (at most) value needs an entire webserver to operate.
[10:33:01] <FatPhil> but, were they to implement a master/slave setup rather than a client/server one, they'd have the slave polling the command port constantly...
[10:36:40] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Report: One-Click Client-Side Account Takeovers of Popular Web Hosting Platforms - http://sylnt.us - all-your-sites-are-belong-to-us
[11:02:17] <FatPhil> https://youtu.be
[11:02:18] <upstart> ^ 03Stand-up comedy routine using a live spherical camera ( https://www.youtube.com )
[11:55:57] -!- Azrael [Azrael!~Az@vhost.removed.contact.irc.admin] has parted #Soylent
[12:15:57] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Protoplanetary Disks Can be Perpendicular to the Orbital Plane of Binary Stars - http://sylnt.us - circular-reasoning?
[13:03:13] -!- SoyCow4338 [SoyCow4338!~c3e48be3@zslzb7u69ud5.fixip.t-online.hu] has joined #Soylent
[13:05:32] -!- SoyCow4338 has quit [Client Quit]
[13:09:59] <Bytram> coffee++
[13:09:59] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4550
[13:10:16] * Bytram needs moah sleep, but needs to get ready for work.
[13:47:06] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Chang'e-4's Seeds Begin Sprouting on the Moon - http://sylnt.us - seeds-of-chang'e
[15:15:15] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - A Billion-Dollar Question: What Was Really Behind Qualcomm's Surprise Ten-Digit Gift to Apple? - http://sylnt.us - Betteridge-says-ummmm-yes-and-no
[16:58:06] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Feds Can't Force You To Unlock Your iPhone With Finger Or Face, Judge Rules - http://sylnt.us - do-NOT-give-them-the-finger
[17:02:28] -!- Web_weasel [Web_weasel!~Stefan@haxp83-042-067-156.range88-597.btcentralplus.com] has joined #Soylent
[18:35:49] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Genetically Modified Food Opponents Know Less Than They Think, Research Finds - http://sylnt.us - Eat-the-fish,-Mr.-Burns
[19:36:03] <chromas> What about proponents?
[19:50:23] <hopdevil> no Brexit
[19:50:53] <hopdevil> they rejected deal, 432 to 202
[20:26:22] <FatPhil> https://pbs.twimg.com
[20:27:15] <FatPhil> hopdevil: not "no Brexit", just "no defined Brexit".
[20:27:15] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - VR Gets Reality Check with Significant Decline in Investment - http://sylnt.us - lol
[20:28:06] <hopdevil> FatPhil: well "no deal" is defined too
[20:28:52] <FatPhil> Irrelevant.
[20:29:10] <hopdevil> lol
[20:29:11] <FatPhil> The Brexit has not been defined to be of the "no deal" variety, so it's still undefined.
[20:31:37] <hopdevil> I actually thought they defined it first as the equivalent of "no deal" first and then sought to sweeten it with EU with "the deal"
[20:31:40] * chromas holds breath for a Calexit
[20:32:17] <hopdevil> because if they take no action at all, they get no deal Brexit
[20:32:32] <FatPhil> It's not defined until it's decided upon. At the moment there's only the "intention", not the "decision". See ECJ decision last month.
[20:33:59] <FatPhil> The *likelyhood* of anything being decided upon that the important parties agree to is of course minimal. But it's not over until the fat lady signs.
[20:35:50] <hopdevil> ya i really dont know. All I know is that this is what happens when you listen to "the voice of the people"
[20:36:19] <FatPhil> In particular when you make the people decide on something which is only vaguely defined.
[20:36:47] <hopdevil> leave the EU seems pretty clear
[20:37:16] <FatPhil> You didn't take long to change your opinion: 21:58 < hopdevil> no Brexit
[20:38:13] <FatPhil> Oh, you mean the referendum question?
[20:38:16] <hopdevil> oh I admit, I was technically wrong.. I meant "May's deal with EU was rejected by the MPs" or something more accurate
[20:38:34] <hopdevil> ya the ref question
[20:39:18] <hopdevil> also, since they rejected it, all the rage seems to be about making it impossible to no-deal brexit
[20:39:21] <FatPhil> Given that so much needed to be sorted out postreferendum, I disagree that it's clear. It's only clear for those who have no idea what the relationship between the UK and the EU is.
[20:40:03] <FatPhil> [ ] Leave the EU*
[20:40:21] <FatPhil> * Note, this will require undoing the Irish Peace Accord
[20:40:56] <hopdevil> i mean, belonging to the EU is basically a treaty (or more than one perhaps)
[20:42:15] <FatPhil> The UK has been moving slowly towards stronger union with Europe for 4 decades. It's not just the most recent step that is being undone, it's everything right back to the early 70s.
[20:43:20] <hopdevil> wasn't this whole brexit thing orignally about those damn furiners takin all their jerbs?
[20:46:04] <FatPhil> That was the lizard-brain level of the discussion.
[20:46:24] <FatPhil> Fuck it, kill it, or eat it, basically.
[20:46:42] <FatPhil> And they voted fuck/kill.
[20:47:05] <hopdevil> The people have spoken.
[20:47:22] <hopdevil> Can't be surprised really
[20:47:37] <FatPhil> Idiots have spoken. I wasn't permitted a vote, as I had been absent 16 years.
[20:52:28] <hopdevil> To say that "the people" can't be trusted to make their own decisions is fairly un-democratic, isnt it?
[20:53:33] <chromas> The people can't be trusted to make the same decisions I would make
[20:53:41] <hopdevil> so true
[20:53:48] <FatPhil> There's absolutely no precedent for being forced to listen to <52% of the voting populace who want to revert a decision made by >67% of the voting populace.
[20:54:07] <hopdevil> in defense of the establishment, referendum votes are totally a gamble
[20:54:20] <FatPhil> I'm old enough to remember the first referendum.
[20:56:07] <FatPhil> The fact that some voters admitted to making a "protest vote" shows that indeed, the public cannot be trusted to be able to make a sensible decision.
[20:56:37] <FatPhil> You can't protest vote in a yes/no choice, you can only shoot yourself in the foot.
[20:57:08] <hopdevil> I think Trump was a protest vote
[20:57:27] <FatPhil> Some truth to that, I'm sure.
[20:58:09] <FatPhil> However, the popular vote did go Hillary's way, she only lost because of the rounding errors.
[20:59:05] <FatPhil> gerrymandering means that dems need a 5% advantage to break even, on average.
[20:59:10] <hopdevil> If the election was popular vote we would get Brexit
[20:59:32] <FatPhil> ?
[20:59:55] <hopdevil> can't trust the people, remember? hence the electoral college
[21:00:19] <FatPhil> If the brexit decision was decided upon by those who were elected in the popular vote to represent their constituents, then there would definitely not be brexit.
[21:01:07] <FatPhil> Electoral college wasn't just trust (nobody had a freaking education), but was also because of tech (time/distance).
[21:01:08] <hopdevil> Ya, I think you are making the point of why not to have a popular vote (of the people)
[21:02:43] <FatPhil> The US and UK do popular votes quite dissimilarly. The UK's is a bit crap, the US's is off-the-scale retarded in this day and age.
[21:03:19] <FatPhil> Anything which isn't proportional representation is broken. Duverger's Law is real.
[21:03:41] <hopdevil> Regardless of how it all started, the electoral college does smooth out the vote in favor of rural areas
[21:04:10] <FatPhil> The Electoral College fucks everything up completely.
[21:05:24] <FatPhil> The electoral college permits an election where 0.000001% of the votes are cast for party X to put party X in the white house with congress majorities.
[21:05:48] <FatPhil> I might be out by a '0' there. But you get the drift.
[21:09:04] <FatPhil> And if a citation is needed, look for a post on rec.puzzles by one Mark Brader some time in the early 2000s.
[21:10:10] <FatPhil> Basically make one person vote X in the states with the greatest leverage, and have *everyone* vote Y in all the other states. Minimise within those constraints.
[21:10:43] <hopdevil> Not that it usually matters, with 2 parties that act near identical, it doesnt matter who is elected
[21:11:03] <FatPhil> Yeah
[21:12:16] <FatPhil> There does seem to be a bit of an anti-Duverger shock in 2016, but it will revert to normality once the signal has been restored.
[21:12:57] <hopdevil> If it comes down to voters getting option A or B, it is best to make sure no matter who they vote for it wont change anything
[21:13:10] <FatPhil> Yup, that's the Duverger's conclusion
[21:13:18] <hopdevil> which is why referendums ala Brexit shouldnt happen
[21:14:20] <FatPhil> But "Leave the EU" is as well-defined as "Put a man on Mars". You can't decide to do that unless there's a mechanism for it to be done.
[21:14:57] <FatPhil> I assert that "Join the EC" was a fine referendum in 1975. Because everything was clearly defined.
[21:15:25] <hopdevil> I dunno, you ask the voters to decide what and politicians get to figure out what that means
[21:15:40] <hopdevil> I sound like May now..
[21:17:01] <FatPhil> i disagree. that's not voting on a course of action. that's voting on a vague concept.
[21:20:58] <hopdevil> clearly whatever May could come up with wasnt what the elected folks thought was meant by that referendum
[21:21:08] <hopdevil> I'm curious what they think the people wanted
[21:22:32] <hopdevil> scrapping the whole thing seems untenable in my opinion, but then i guess some people want yet another referendum
[21:38:00] <chromas> They should just have referendums all day. Or is that referenda?
[21:38:20] <chromas> "This is not a democracy; it's a beurocracy!"
[21:38:28] * chromas checks the spelling book
[21:38:29] * cmn32480 beats his head against the wall of jury duty
[21:38:44] * cmn32480 wrote the spelling book, don't trust it
[21:39:46] <chromas> Jury duty? Just make sure they know you know about computers and you're heavily biased
[21:40:19] <FatPhil> I don't think the people knew what they wanted apart from "put a man on Mars". "But how?". "Just do it for god's sake, it's what we asked for!!!"
[21:40:38] <hopdevil> cmn32480: and that you know about jury nullification
[21:40:59] <chromas> Nobody said the man on Mars has to be alive, right?
[21:41:21] <cmn32480> lol
[21:41:24] <cmn32480> good point
[21:42:35] * chromas diggs up Orson Welles
[21:45:02] <chromas> Do you fine Europeans vote on the leaders of the EU?
[21:45:20] <FatPhil> nope
[21:45:48] <chromas> You need an electoral college
[21:48:00] <FatPhil> effectively we do, that's why people claim it's "unelected"
[21:49:57] <FatPhil> *some people. Those who don't understand that there's a direct democracy is impractical.
[21:50:46] <FatPhil> (and leads to things like brexit)
[21:51:13] <hopdevil> I'm with chromas, referenda all day long
[21:52:02] <hopdevil> it would be like jury duty, you should have 10 days every year when you have to vote non-stop
[21:53:08] <chromas> It's the current year. People should directly vote on the internet for absolutely every issue. We can stuff blockchain in there somehow to make it cool and secure
[21:54:15] <FatPhil> There's a great Dr. Who series from the 80s where the people are voting on things all the time, and if the people don't like it, the politician who proposes the motion dies!
[21:54:43] <esainane> you're not talking about venegeance on varos, are you?
[21:55:47] * chromas dials the hatespeech police
[21:56:01] -!- Web_weasel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[21:56:20] <chromas> ^ Ooh they got one!
[21:56:40] * chromas mourns Web_weasel
[21:56:55] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Oh, SSH, IT Please see this: Malicious Servers can fsck with your PC's Files During scp Slurps - http://sylnt.us - all-your-files-are-belong-to-us
[22:00:35] <FatPhil> esainane: that's the one. Colin Baker, IIRC.
[22:00:49] <chromas> We could get rid of politicians too! Just let issues be crowd-sourced. Whenever a topic/proposal becomes 'viral' then it automatically queues up in the voting system and everyone must stop and vote on it immediately.
[22:00:50] <esainane> that was an interesting episode
[22:02:16] <FatPhil> I liked it, it seems some reviewers didn't. Sil I liked.
[22:02:18] <esainane> the populace voting through TV remotes and kept in a stupor through death games as entertainment? I think that's the first time I really appreciated the importance of culture in a political system, as that was a beyond fucked society, even though it was technically direct democracy
[22:02:54] <esainane> Eh, the 80s were a wacky time
[22:02:55] <FatPhil> He: [hits both 'No' buttons] \ She: Oi!
[22:03:20] <esainane> one moment it was glib one liners, the next moment it was a shirtless torture scene
[22:03:45] <FatPhil> It borrowed a lot from prior dystopic sci-fi though.
[22:03:57] <esainane> Oh yeah
[22:04:06] <FatPhil> Very heavily from /The Year of the Sex Olympics/, for example.
[22:05:06] <FatPhil> which was unbelievably prescient.
[22:06:33] <esainane> ...my goodness, that was nearly half a century ago now
[22:11:35] <FatPhil> indeed
[22:12:24] <FatPhil> 1968 - over half a century!
[22:13:25] <esainane> Oh, I was talking about the DW episode
[22:13:31] <esainane> 1985
[22:13:32] <esainane> But yes :)
[22:14:45] <FatPhil> I don't really remember Varos from my youth, i was straying away from Who by that stage. But I did a complete rewatch from Pertwee onwards about a decade ago.
[22:15:42] <FatPhil> Anyway, time for some Drunk History and bed.
[22:16:35] <hopdevil> cheers
[22:16:52] <esainane> Laters
[22:24:13] <FatPhil> and a glass of glenglassaugh revival... cheers!
[23:38:12] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Headlight of the Future Is a Laser - http://sylnt.us - blinded-by-even-more-distant-oncoming-traffic