#Soylent | Logs for 2018-08-21
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[01:17:38] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v mrpg] by Aphrodite
[01:21:23] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Stanford Prison Experiment is Not What We Were Taught - http://sylnt.us - it's-a-lie
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[03:02:06] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Astronomers Detect Synchronous X-Ray and Radio Mode Switching of the Pulsar PSR B0823+26 - http://sylnt.us - fm
[04:09:56] <chromas> 🌮submit https://www.reuters.com
[04:09:58] <upstart> Submitting "Twenty-two States Ask U.S. Appeals Court to Reinstate 'net Neutrality' Rules"...
[04:10:19] <upstart> Sub-ccess! https://soylentnews.org
[04:20:41] <chromas> 🌮submit https://www.cnet.com
[04:20:42] <upstart> Submitting "NASA Finds Ice on the Surface of the Moon"...
[04:20:48] <chromas> 🌮submit https://www.bbc.co.uk
[04:20:52] <upstart> Submitting "Open-plan Office Workers 'more Active'"...
[04:21:04] <upstart> Sub-ccess! https://soylentnews.org
[04:21:14] <upstart> Submit failed: FIXME et cetera.
[04:21:23] <chromas> 🌮submit https://www.bbc.co.uk
[04:21:25] <upstart> Submitting "Open-plan Office Workers 'more Active'"...
[04:21:47] <upstart> Submit failed: FIXME et cetera.
[04:21:48] <chromas> #smake rehash
[04:21:48] * MrPlow smakes rehash upside the head with a red herring
[04:23:06] <chromas> #submit https://www.bbc.co.uk
[04:23:08] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[04:23:33] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[04:23:34] <upstart> ^ 03SoylentNews Submissions
[04:42:06] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Congenital Blindness Reversed in Mice - http://sylnt.us - in-hindsight...
[04:46:47] <chromas> 🌮submit https://www.cnet.com
[04:53:54] <chromas> 🌮submit https://www.eurekalert.org
[04:53:56] <upstart> Submitting "Near 2 Million Acres on Fire in the United States"...
[04:54:18] <upstart> Sub-ccess! https://soylentnews.org
[06:13:16] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Ancient Egyptians Mastered Mummification Long Before the Time of Pharaohs - http://sylnt.us - look-mummy-no-resins
[06:55:35] <FatPhil> ~weather
[06:55:37] <exec> 10Tallinn, Harju County, Estonia - currently 62°F / 17°C, sunny, wind NW at 16 mph, humidity 69% - Tuesday cloudy (53°F:65°F / 12°C:18°C), Wednesday partly cloudy (58°F:67°F / 14°C:19°C), Thursday partly cloudy (61°F:74°F / 16°C:23°C), Friday scattered showers (60°F:75°F / 16°C:24°C)
[07:14:32] <FatPhil> https://gist.githubusercontent.com
[07:22:44] <chromas> This is why we can't have nice things.
[07:24:50] <FatPhil> Do you remember a joke language called "whitespace"?
[07:25:17] <FatPhil> Apparently the C++ standardisation committee thought that whitespace had some useful features they wanted to copy.
[07:25:24] <chromas> Yeah. So you could embed secret codez in your codez
[07:25:45] <chromas> From C++ to Python
[07:25:46] <FatPhil> I turned my back on C++ back in about 2003, and I've been happier since.
[07:26:02] <chromas> Have you tried D?
[07:26:09] <FatPhil> Read a lot about it
[07:26:20] <FatPhil> Way back in the early days, before V2 came out.
[07:26:36] <chromas> [Nerd rage intensifies]
[07:26:50] <FatPhil> It had a rough patch between the two versions, which made me think they were ruining things.
[07:27:09] <FatPhil> Also, A.A. coming on board was a biiiiiiig warning sign - he fucked up a lot of C++.
[07:27:35] <FatPhil> However, it looks like they finally created a pretty decent language after the rewrite.
[07:28:43] <chromas> Is he like the Lennart of programming languages or something?
[07:28:52] <FatPhil> >snigger<
[07:29:02] <FatPhil> He has some good idea, but doesn't know when to stop.
[07:29:29] <chromas> Maybe he should create an initd
[07:29:31] <FatPhil> wouldn't it be neat if .... [implements] ... [adds bells and whistles] ... oh, shit, that's a mess.
[07:29:36] <chromas> systemD
[07:29:50] <chromas> Sounds like C++
[07:30:28] <chromas> So what's the best C++ replacement?
[07:30:33] <chromas> (we need a new poll)
[07:36:07] <FatPhil> For me, it's D, definitely.
[07:36:21] <FatPhil> Or just go full Amish, and go back to C.
[07:50:52] <chromas> I wonder if I can make a poll with only one option. Would be great for next April 1
[07:51:43] <FatPhil> https://www.vice.com
[07:51:44] <upstart> ^ 03David Duke Is Apparently Worried He Looks Like an Idiot in 'BlacKkKlansman' - VICE
[07:52:25] <boru> Real Programmersâ„¢ use Forth.
[07:52:31] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Nvidia Announces RTX 2080 Ti, 2080, and 2070 GPUs, Claims 25x Increase in Ray-Tracing Performance - http://sylnt.us - so-is-it-fast?
[07:52:37] <chromas> Does it haz objects?
[07:52:51] <chromas> and templates and buzzword and buzzword?
[07:53:09] * chromas prefers fith
[07:53:10] <FatPhil> every token is an object?
[07:53:10] <boru> Objects are abstract. You can do object oriented programming with C.
[07:53:34] <FatPhil> That's what CFront was
[07:53:41] <boru> I agree with Phil, though; D is an approximation of what C++ tried, and failed, to be.
[07:53:47] <chromas> But I need that Object Orientedâ„¢ label on the tin
[07:54:18] <chromas> gtk does objects in C
[07:54:18] <boru> You can do object oriented programming with standard ISO C.
[07:54:24] <boru> GObject is an abomination.
[07:54:32] <chromas> How dare you!
[07:54:50] <chromas> gdk is my lord and saviour
[07:55:19] <boru> Well, it's better than Qt, I'll grant you that, but C++ is definitely a better tool for GUI stuff.
[07:55:24] <boru> TUI stuff, not so much.
[07:55:59] <chromas> Even Qt5
[07:56:11] <boru> Qt, period, is awful.
[07:56:20] <boru> That Q_OBJECT and MoC shite.
[07:56:21] <chromas> But it's got "cute" in the name
[07:56:35] <chromas> /nick QtCodrGrrl
[07:56:44] <boru> Slots and signals aren't worth the macro crap, and then there's QML...
[07:57:10] <chromas> D has slots and signals in the stdlib but it uses template mixins
[07:57:17] <FatPhil> what was the Apple OSX thing - that looked pretty neat
[07:57:23] * chromas never heard of mixins until D
[07:57:30] <chromas> Objective C?
[07:57:31] <boru> Qt works on crapintosh.
[07:57:34] <chromas> oh and Swift
[07:57:53] <chromas> Qt works everywhere
[07:58:01] <boru> Yeah, just like java.
[07:58:01] <chromas> Qt has better themes too
[07:58:04] <boru> Write once, debug everywhere.
[07:58:23] <chromas> !grab boru
[07:58:24] <Bender> Added quote 882
[07:58:44] <boru> Anyway, all of my information of this subject is from the 90s.
[07:58:50] <FatPhil> ditto
[07:59:06] <boru> My bread and butter is assembly language, C and Verilog these days.
[07:59:13] <boru> With some Perl, and then Forth for fun.
[07:59:31] <chromas> You should use PHP and C++
[07:59:35] <FatPhil> I actually thought that HTML5 had some future for webapps, which is what a fair proportion of the world has become.
[07:59:40] <chromas> 'cause the butter always lands face down
[07:59:45] <boru> I would rather fell a tree with my face.
[08:00:00] <chromas> Ah, a veteran of Minecraft
[08:00:11] <chromas> oops, that's java
[08:00:18] <boru> I don't follow.
[08:00:21] * chromas punches the tree
[08:00:28] * FatPhil goes back to his SQL...
[08:00:49] <chromas> If you don't have a tool, then you mine materials by punching them
[08:00:58] <boru> Oh, I see.
[08:01:10] <boru> I was referencing a film that I can't remember the name of.
[08:02:17] <FatPhil> I once saw a bit of a Sargon vid where he was punching plants in order to create logs he could build a shack from, or something.
[08:02:44] <chromas> In a vidya game?
[08:02:49] <chromas> With blocks
[08:03:14] * chromas doesn't find the quote on the interwebs, concludes it doesn't exists
[08:04:10] <FatPhil> not with blocks
[08:04:58] <FatPhil> youtube doesn't let me see more than the most recent 30ish vids, and it's older than that
[08:06:18] <chromas> You get more if you allow the java scripts
[08:06:37] <chromas> it does the infinite scroll paradigm
[08:07:14] <FatPhil> WORST PARADIGM EVAR!!!!!
[08:07:26] <FatPhil> sorry, not *SHOUTY* enough, needs more *STARS*
[08:08:48] <chromas> ★★★★★☆☆
[08:09:44] <FatPhil> Let's say I want to know what the haters think of this beer: https://www.ratebeer.com
[08:09:44] <upstart> ^ 03RateBeer
[08:09:59] <FatPhil> sort by highest score, right?
[08:10:15] <FatPhil> do it - and tell me what the haters think - the ones at the bottom
[08:10:50] <chromas> It's no good; I can't do it
[08:11:18] <FatPhil> I once did a Kieth Emerson and blew my brains out^W^W^W^Wwedged a knife under the /page down/ key on my keyboard, and then went off to make a cup of tea.
[08:12:37] <FatPhil> That was a beer with only 1000 ratings - 100 partial page loads (200 server requests). That sapporo's 1700, so 170 partial page loads.
[08:16:21] <chromas> I think Firefox might be retarded
[08:16:55] <chromas> Looking in the js on that site, I do a search for "sort by" and it highlights "footed tapering"
[08:17:31] <FatPhil> 'highest score' is the tab you're after
[08:17:32] <chromas> now it's "ring cy"
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[08:38:47] <FatPhil> Is there a way of wgetting the source markup for a wikipedia page?
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[08:39:14] <FatPhil> I want to squirt a table into a script, and it's a far easier sedding job on the source markup than it is on the rendered HTML.
[08:40:20] <chromas> Squirt? Are you programming a Zune?
[08:40:26] <chromas> There's this https://en.wikipedia.org
[08:40:26] <upstart> ^ 03APIs
[08:41:09] <chromas> And WikipediaFS for Fuse
[08:42:42] <FatPhil> OK, I'm gonna pipe the information, but it's gonna flow like a squirt down the pipe
[08:43:12] <chromas> pornpipe
[08:43:56] <FatPhil> Fuck this shit. All I want is a simple ISO-3166:2 list
[08:44:43] <FatPhil> my googoo skillz = pantz
[08:44:59] <FatPhil> more like nappies, as I've got a lot of shit
[08:45:29] <boru> Heh, all of those things like wikipedia FS are based on how we used to share binaries and viruses on BBSs and newsgroups.
[08:45:36] <boru> And now, on paste sites.
[08:45:45] <chromas> you could wget page?action=edit then grab the <textarea> tag
[08:47:00] <chromas> Maybe with a regex like <textarea.*?>(.*?)</textarea>
[08:47:36] <boru> Superfluous .* usage. Emetic.
[08:47:57] <chromas> The tag has attributes
[08:48:17] <chromas> You'll still need to resolve the &s and stuff
[08:48:17] <boru> No doubt. It's just greedy and computationally expensive.
[08:48:27] <chromas> That's why the ? afterward
[08:48:31] <chromas> makes it lazy
[08:49:08] <boru> It could still be better.
[08:49:17] <FatPhil> found a .csv: https://raw.githubusercontent.com
[08:49:50] <FatPhil> now to sed that into the values for a sql statement...
[08:50:36] <boru> You could probably just use cut for that data.
[08:50:45] <boru> bikeshedding++
[08:50:45] <Bender> karma - bikeshedding: 1
[08:51:47] <boru> I'd probably use awk for input into sql, though.
[09:07:48] <FatPhil> perl script for that job, as "some, idiotic, names", vs other sane names,
[09:08:02] <FatPhil> dafuq's this shit: ('Bolivia (Plurinational State of)','BO','iso3166')
[09:08:12] <FatPhil> get a proper country name!
[09:09:02] <FatPhil> gonna just create a hash of renames in my script, I think
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[09:32:15] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Scientists who Starved to Death Surrounded by Food - http://sylnt.us - do-the-right-thing-at-all-costs
[09:49:48] <chromas> 🌮submit https://phys.org
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[09:51:21] <chromas> fpos
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[10:57:47] <chromas> Ooh, Mozilla's doing a Firefox survey. It's only a stub that asks how satisfied I am and wants an email address for a link to the real survey
[11:02:05] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - 9th Circuit Court of Appeals Affirms Right to Open Carry of Firearms - http://sylnt.us - Shall-not-be-infringed
[12:07:47] <Bytram> boru++ For endorsing AWK
[12:07:47] <Bender> karma - boru: 23
[12:33:15] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - NASA Finds Ice on the Surface of the Moon - http://sylnt.us - cold,-wet,-and-close
[13:08:48] <FatPhil> I never awk. It's an in-between language - more complex than a pipe of trivial commands, but less powerful than perl. If I can't do it with seds/greps/cuts and sh-isms, I just hit perl.
[13:08:59] <FatPhil> awk--
[13:08:59] <Bender> karma - awk: 7
[13:09:43] <FatPhil> However, part of that is the sunk cost fallacy - I've wasted 25 years of my life using perl, I can't stop using it now :(
[13:09:59] <FatPhil> yes, for those doing the maths in the room, I did start on perl 4.
[13:10:21] <chromas> What's your expert opinion on Perl 6?
[13:10:26] * chromas runs away
[13:47:31] <AndyTheAbsurd> I think Perl 6 is going to be released the same day that Python 2 is no longer used in production.
[13:48:09] <AndyTheAbsurd> Other things that will happen that day: Hell freezes over, pigs fly, politicians are completely truthful.
[13:52:34] <chromas> I don't see no pigs
[13:57:17] <FatPhil> I think Perl 6 won't be significantly less fucked up than Perl 5, so there's no need to waste time diluting my Perl knowledge with it. Some changes are utterly retarded.
[13:57:39] <FatPhil> Larry wall is not a computer language genius, he's a complete fucknut with no understanding of his own limitations.
[13:58:28] <chromas> I wish I had that much talent
[13:59:41] <chromas> At least the main implementation of perl 6 is partially written in java, so there's that
[13:59:47] <AndyTheAbsurd> I have a problem with any language where variables like $:, $@, $_, and $& exist without me declaring them.
[14:00:20] <chromas> Are they called superglobals?
[14:00:24] <chromas> or is that just a php thing?
[14:00:30] <AndyTheAbsurd> I think it's $_ and $! that it shares with bash, so at least those two make sense.
[14:01:21] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Twenty-two States Ask U.S. Appeals Court to Reinstate 'Net Neutrality' Rules - http://sylnt.us - its-not-over-until-the-fat-lady-sings
[14:02:21] <AndyTheAbsurd> that name is PHP-specific as far as I know
[14:02:26] <AndyTheAbsurd> but the concept is similar
[14:02:58] <FatPhil> Perl inherited a lot from prior languages (such as awk and sh)
[14:02:59] * chromas invents doublesuperglobals
[14:03:00] <boru> Not quiet.
[14:03:02] <AndyTheAbsurd> (one of) the problem(s) with Perl is that there's so damn many of them: https://perlmonks.org
[14:03:04] <boru> Those sigils are scoped.
[14:03:07] <upstart> ^ 03Perl Special Variables Quick Reference
[14:03:17] <boru> Not quite, even.
[14:04:44] <boru> About every scripting language out there allows you to do stupid things.
[14:04:48] <boru> That's not restricted to Perl.
[14:05:01] <chromas> But how many encourage it?
[14:05:19] <boru> All of them.
[14:05:32] <AndyTheAbsurd> boru: you could leaving "scripting" out of that and not be any less correct.
[14:05:47] <boru> Yeah, I suppose that's valid to some degree in all cases.
[14:05:51] * AndyTheAbsurd should go back to doing stupid things in Java now
[14:05:54] * chromas invents vbc++script
[14:06:17] <boru> That's already been invented. It's called python.
[14:06:19] <AndyTheAbsurd> chromas: ...what, WebAssembly wasn't a stupid enough idea for you?!
[14:06:39] <chromas> Was that a real thing? I thought it was a buzzword or something
[14:07:08] <AndyTheAbsurd> Yes, WebAssembly is a real thing
[14:07:12] <chromas> Oh. Oh sheeeit
[14:07:16] * chromas -> triggered
[14:07:24] <AndyTheAbsurd> "WebAssembly (abbreviated Wasm) is a binary instruction format for a stack-based virtual machine. Wasm is designed as a portable target for compilation of high-level languages like C/C++/Rust, enabling deployment on the web for client and server applications."
[14:07:28] <boru> Please stop.
[14:07:32] <boru> I've just had lunch.
[14:07:51] <AndyTheAbsurd> Somebody (I forget who) wrote a C#.NET -> WebAssembly cross-compiler.
[14:08:17] <boru> That is horrendous.
[14:08:37] <chromas> No wonder the world's in the state it's in
[14:09:20] * chromas blames global warming on wasm
[14:10:27] <FatPhil> OK, do your worst...
[14:10:28] <FatPhil> Lua
[14:10:47] <boru> I actually don't have a lot of problems with lua.
[14:10:59] <boru> It's very basic.
[14:11:04] <chromas> All the good languages are on things. Ruby on Rails, Rust on Gears or whatever. Lua on Lesbians?
[14:17:41] <FatPhil> You're getting it confused with baby lotion, easy mistake to make.
[14:17:50] * FatPhil bobby tableses himself
[14:18:55] <chromas> Factorio uses Lua, so I know it's good. Or maybe it could be faster with another language
[14:19:49] * chromas lays down some transporter belts
[14:36:51] <chromas> This looks like a good thing to submit https://www.theregister.co.uk
[14:36:52] <upstart> ^ 03.NET Core 2.1 – huh, yeah – what is it good for? Bing, apparently • The Register
[14:37:13] <boru> Does it explain wtf .net core is?
[14:38:02] <AndyTheAbsurd> if I understand it correctly, .Net Core is the version of .Net that runs cross-platform.
[14:38:16] <boru> Ah, so malware, then.
[14:38:43] <AndyTheAbsurd> Sure, if you consider Microsoft to be the Evil Empire.
[14:38:59] <AndyTheAbsurd> Which is not an incorrect way to look at things.
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[15:16:21] <hopdevil> .net core is basically microsoft's attempt to shift developers into their UWP app ecosystem
[15:18:54] <hopdevil> very java like, but the intermediate bytecode is compatible with all the different languages. And the API is very M$FT-ish, ie functions that do everything
[15:24:33] <hopdevil> the DRM/security model is pretty good, which is a big reason M$FT wants native apps to die
[15:30:31] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Workers in Open-Plan Offices 'More Active' - http://sylnt.us - 'cos-the-boss-is-watching
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[17:01:39] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Microsoft Claims It Thwarted Russian Phishing Attacks on Conservative Think Tanks - http://sylnt.us - phishers-of-men
[17:53:08] <FatPhil> Only the crumbliest flakiest Brexit
[17:53:18] <FatPhil> Fails like Britain's never failed before.
[18:50:58] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Google Sued For Unwanted Tracking Of Phone Locations - http://sylnt.us - class-located
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[19:18:06] <cmn32480> fuck people.
[19:18:13] <cmn32480> fuck them right in their stupoid ears
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[19:18:26] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v chromas] by Aphrodite
[19:18:29] <exec> welcome chromas: Walla Walla, WA, 23°C/74°F, 12:18 pm PDT, Tuesday, 21 August 2018
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[20:22:07] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Is It the End of the 9 to 5 Working Day? (UK) - http://sylnt.us
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[22:02:21] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Understanding of Light Momentum: Researchers Shine a Light on 150-Year Old Mystery - http://sylnt.us
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[23:43:02] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Skype Now Offers End-to-End Encrypted Conversations - http://sylnt.us - 6854734946204569446c692020534f6e20746e457243705965540044