#Soylent | Logs for 2017-12-13

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[00:03:04] -!- xuser [xuser!~xuser@wy-00-93-28-667.chicago.us.northamericancoax.com] has joined #Soylent
[00:11:28] <SoyGuest22783> I'd love the anonymised moderation data, so I could build a clique graph
[00:12:31] <SoyGuest22783> everyone's a particle, all slightly repelling, but every moderation between a pair adds attraction or repulsion.
[00:18:38] <Sulla> I cant recall the last time I did a downmod
[00:18:54] <Sulla> I think regardless of what it says it is a supression of speech
[00:29:52] <SoyGuest22783> people can chose to read at -1, there's no suppression
[00:30:34] <SoyGuest22783> there is, however, such a thing as utterly bogus downmodding, and that should be avoided.
[00:31:44] <SoyGuest22783> I've received several offtopics for things which were entirely about the core of the topic recently - that narked me for all of a few seconds.
[00:36:06] <Sulla> Yeah, been annoyed at that too on occasion. Oh well
[00:45:18] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Google Launches Three Photo/Videography "Appsperiments" - http://sylnt.us - can-you-picture-this?
[01:46:40] <takyon> TheMightyBuzzard
[01:47:22] <takyon> I don't get issue 418. Doesn't "Only Logged-In Users" cover that?
[01:50:59] <chromas> Where's that option? I only get Comments Enabled or Disabled
[01:51:29] <chromas> Maybe it's only a subscriber option? My star expired
[01:52:58] <takyon> I see a whopping 7 options
[01:53:45] <Exaeta> I'd like the option to make moderation non-anonymous on journal comments and/or make it where the journal author can adjust/remove moderations on his/her journal. Basically give the journal author more control of which comments are highlighted. To prevent karma abuse, just make it where journal mods don't count towards karma.
[01:53:53] <takyon> Comments Disabled, Comments Enabled, Just Friends and Their Friends, Just Friends, Only Logged-In Users, No Foes, No Foes and No Friend's Foes
[01:54:19] <Exaeta> takyon: I don't get any of those options
[01:54:26] <Exaeta> and the "no comments" option doesn't even work
[01:54:51] <takyon> wacky. I guess TMB can weigh in on that
[01:55:09] <Exaeta> or maybe just something where we can manually decide who can mod comments on our journals
[01:55:10] <takyon> I have never tried to use any of those options but I have always seen them listed (as long as I can remember)
[01:55:16] <Exaeta> for example, only alloying friends to mod comments
[01:55:22] <Exaeta> *allowing
[01:55:36] <Exaeta> (friends are not metals)
[01:55:49] <takyon> I would add a comment to the bug report with some of this stuff, but I want to wait for TMB to tell us some more
[02:00:10] <Exaeta> My journal was spammed by certain trolls (posting anonymously of course). Suppression of speech in the public comments is one thing, but I should be able to keep that shit off my journal entries.
[02:07:09] <Exaeta> It gets unpleasant when some people post on your journal articles for the sole purpose of harassing you. That's why I'd like to prevent them from doing so.
[02:08:12] <Exaeta> Also why was this even published? https://soylentnews.org ...
[02:08:15] <upstart> ^ 03Discussion: Social Psychological Perspectives on Trump Supporters - SoylentNews
[02:08:25] <Exaeta> That's like... obviously flamebait. Why publish it?
[02:09:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> takyon, i only ever seen two options
[02:09:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, shit, i see a buttload now
[02:09:39] <takyon> lol WUT
[02:09:45] <takyon> I'll make the screenshot
[02:09:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> naw, i see em now. i just dunno where they came from.
[02:11:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... maybe it's an admin flagged thing.
[02:11:06] <takyon> For the crowd, I have seen these dropdown options for as long as I can remember. Probably over a year: http://puu.sh
[02:11:49] <takyon> I've never tested them because I haven't felt the need to restrict commenting
[02:12:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> re: the flamebait article... https://soylentnews.org
[02:12:59] <upstart> ^ 03SoylentNews Comments | Discussion: Social Psychological Perspectives on Trump Supporters ( https://soylentnews.org )
[02:16:59] <Exaeta> https://s18.postimg.org
[02:18:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> re: people annoying you on your journal... i wouldn't have an objection to creating a "no foes or ACs" option but that's about as far as i'm comfortable going.
[02:19:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, that's what i've seen every time i posted a journal entry until i looked just now.
[02:19:32] <Exaeta> TheMightyBuzzard: Can we at least make it where we can disable moderation by non-friends? Your karma shouldn't be affected by journal mods anyway.
[02:20:27] <Exaeta> Even if you let others comment, if it's your journal entry, you should be able to control which comments are highlighted, no?
[02:20:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> we could make it to where you can't mod journal comments at all but getting more tricky than that would be annoyingly difficult.
[02:21:11] <Exaeta> TheMightyBuzzard: Maybe an option to disable moderation when creating a new journal?
[02:21:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod. doable.
[02:22:02] <Exaeta> Also why do I only get 2 options if everyone else gets tons of options? And I can't post an entry with comments disabled either.
[02:22:36] <Exaeta> Even though the option is there, it says, "comments must be enabled for entry set to publish" or something like that
[02:23:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> looking at the source right now to find out wtf is up with different options
[02:24:03] <Exaeta> "You must enable comments for all users if you've marked your submission as "publicize" or "publish." "
[02:24:10] <Exaeta> ???
[02:24:22] <Exaeta> that's something to look for in the source code
[02:24:47] <Exaeta> This happened when I tried to use "comments disabled"
[02:24:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> plugins/Journal/templates/journaledit\;journal\;default line 32. subscribers and admins get more fine grained controls
[02:25:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> i don't have an objection to removing that check though. takyon?
[02:26:32] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Scientists Urge Endangered Species Classification for Cheetahs - http://sylnt.us - act-quickly!
[02:26:56] * TheMightyBuzzard is asking takyon because we rarely agree on anything except brewing booze
[02:30:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> blarg. he's probably busy occupying something capitalist.
[02:32:56] <Exaeta> TheMightyBuzzard: why is it that the "Comments Disabled" option does not work though?
[02:34:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> dunno. it'll get tested and fixed when we go through testing all the different modes on dev i expect.
[02:35:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> have to do that anyway because we don't know if they're our code (and probably work) or legacy code (and may have never worked).
[02:36:46] <takyon> reading
[02:37:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> you have any objection to removing the subscriber/admin check for all the extra options?
[02:37:49] <takyon> it's good for the users. I think most people who subscribe do so to help the site, not get an extra feature or two
[02:37:58] <takyon> however we should confirm that the extra options actually work?
[02:38:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup yup. they need the full Bytram.
[02:38:56] <takyon> as for disabling the use of mod points on a journal, i'm a bit conflicted, IDK
[02:39:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> so not something we can rush into the december2017 update
[02:39:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> well it's not playing favorites or anything so i don't have any moral objection
[02:39:48] <takyon> you still have users with karma bonus, and ACs starting at zero. Is it fair to remove moderation in situations where people are commenting, even if it's "your" journal?
[02:41:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... yeah we should essentially show all posts as the same score if we're gonna do it.
[02:41:05] <Bytram> hola
[02:41:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~blame
[02:41:12] * exec points at Bytram
[02:41:16] <Bytram> ROFLMAO!
[02:41:59] * Bytram just got home after a long day at work and a meeting with friends... pop in here and see my nick referenced... what's up (haven't ready backscrool yet)
[02:42:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> takyon, i can see that argument but really it's just a matter of how much we want journals to be additional site content and how much we want them to be your personal playground
[02:42:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, just making more work for you
[02:42:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> for spring though, not the december update.
[02:43:11] <takyon> when you say "your personal playground", are you talking about me since I am the #2 journal user?
[02:43:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah. $user's personal playground
[02:44:51] <Bytram> if I may... we had a sudden appearance of new accts that immediately commenced to using the journal as a place for posting spam (Umm, unsolicited Commerical Email) -- saw a number of comments complaining about it. And, this is not the first time we have had this discussion.
[02:45:13] <takyon> we already have the solution for that pending though. right?
[02:45:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> either way, karma and moderation need to either stay the same or get nuked entirely for that particular entry. can't allow playing favorites with people's karma.
[02:46:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, it's already fixed on dev.
[02:46:22] <Bytram> having a min karma (i.e., posted sufficient number of postively-moderated comments and/or accepted stories so as to indicate having added acceptable contributions to the site "unlocks" the ability to post in one's journal AND to have it made visible in the "Most recent Journal Entries" list
[02:46:41] <Bytram> oh, then I am confused
[02:46:51] <Bytram> and prolly tired, too.
[02:47:00] <takyon> that's our bytram
[02:47:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> post all you like but there'll be no links to it in the slashbox until you hit journal_min_sb_karma
[02:47:28] <Bytram> there's about 20 'pages' of backscrool... give me a few minutes to catch up, K?
[02:47:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> i didn't mention it in here. it's just one of the issues i got fixed and waiting to roll into a PR.
[02:59:17] <Bytram> me catches up with 'now'... in THIS channel
[03:00:11] * takyon burps
[03:00:25] <Bytram> first thoughts: a user's journal is a place where I can post something for the *community* to see... and possibly comment on. And where there are comments, there is moderation. it's all about taking things from the perspective of the *community*.
[03:00:57] <Bytram> It's not just *MY* journal -- it's my posting to the site for the *community* to peruse (and possibly comment upon)
[03:01:46] <Bytram> still not entirely groking all the interactions mentioned, and am too tired atm to dive in and poke around with different permutations to see what works and how.
[03:02:47] <Bytram> ugh.
[03:02:48] <Bytram> http://go.theregister.com
[03:02:49] <upstart> ^ 03Intel to slap hardware lock on Management Engine code to thwart downgrade attacks • The Register ( https://www.theregister.co.uk )
[03:07:07] <takyon> looks like Doug Jones is going to win maybe
[03:07:26] * TheMightyBuzzard wanders back from his sn comments death matches
[03:09:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'okay. amd has shipped a "disable every damn bit of it except the bits that make it boot" switch in their PSP to motherboard makers. some of them already have bios updates with it live out.
[03:12:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> we should prolly run a story on that.
[03:13:20] <Bytram> yep, Intel's mistake brought sufficient attention to the matter that AMD saw a chance to win some mind share, proved option to disable their management engine, and then Intel renegs (spelllling?) -- I wonder if AMD flips their position, too
[03:13:32] <Bytram> s/proved/provided/
[03:13:32] <upstart> <Bytram> yep, Intel's mistake brought sufficient attention to the matter that AMD saw a chance to win some mind share, provided option to disable their management engine, and then Intel renegs (spelllling?) -- I wonder if AMD flips their position, too
[03:14:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> man, i lurve reading cafebabe's journal entries
[03:14:49] <Bytram> takyon: I understand what you mean... unfortunately, I rather few spare cycles atm for much more than some chats here, and posting stories to the site... I know my commenting and moderation activities have been dramatically cut back.
[03:15:04] <Bytram> wot does s/he have up their now?
[03:15:07] * Bytram goes to look
[03:15:13] <takyon> http://www.cnn.com
[03:15:16] <takyon> https://www.nytimes.com
[03:15:17] <upstart> ^ 03Live Alabama Election Results: Roy Moore and Doug Jones Compete for Senate Seat – Election Results 2017 – The New York Times
[03:15:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~define chromas
[03:15:21] <exec> [local] chromas: a man without conviction. a man who doesn't know how to sell a contradiction. he comes and goes. he comes and goes.
[03:15:50] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: you mean the story about origami cubes?
[03:15:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod
[03:16:04] <Bytram> that wold be this one: https://soylentnews.org
[03:16:06] <upstart> ^ 03Journal of cafebabe (894)
[03:16:07] * Bytram clicks
[03:16:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> she makes way neater frivolous shit than i do
[03:16:35] <takyon> the democratic counties are the ones that have more votes left
[03:16:55] <Bytram> (Ugh... why, when I click on a journal *article*, I end up on their journal PAGE?!!? Has always driven me batty
[03:17:00] <takyon> had to WTF and some stuff in that cafebabe journal
[03:17:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> takyon, it amuses me that there are more write-ins than the current spread
[03:17:11] <takyon> yeah bytram that is a quirk. useful maybe?
[03:17:18] <takyon> it allows people to see your older journals more readily
[03:17:51] <takyon> neck to neck
[03:17:58] <Bytram> well, if I had clicked on the *nick*, then I could understand seeing the entire journal... but when I click on a particular journal article, by golly that is what I want to see!
[03:18:14] * TheMightyBuzzard wonders who is leading the write-in vote
[03:18:15] <takyon> 548,552 moore to 548,552 jones. 86% in
[03:18:32] <takyon> NYT giving Jones 83% chance of winning
[03:18:56] <Bytram> takyon: was that intentional? that looks like they are exactly even?!!?!!!
[03:19:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> nyt not got much of a track record predicting elections
[03:19:13] <takyon> TheMightyBuzzard: everyone makes mistakes
[03:19:17] <Bytram> it's difficult to predict things, eexpecially the future.
[03:19:24] <takyon> but if you look at the county map on CNN, it's clear Jones has an advantage
[03:19:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya but they always make theirs in one specific direction.
[03:19:30] <takyon> the blue counties are the ones still counting otes
[03:19:35] <Bytram> even me, when I try to typo this late in the day
[03:19:47] <Bytram> takyon: s/ [^ ]*$/oats/
[03:19:47] <upstart> <takyon> the blue counties are the ones still countingoats
[03:19:53] <takyon> flail
[03:20:01] <Bytram> not what I intended, but has a certain ring to it, too.
[03:20:07] <Bytram> two shay!
[03:20:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> countin goats!
[03:20:18] <Bytram> countingcrows++
[03:20:18] <Bender> karma - countingcrows: 1
[03:20:25] <takyon> Jones in the lead with 800 voats
[03:20:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt mr jones
[03:20:27] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com
[03:20:39] <Bytram> GREAT song!
[03:20:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> how do ya like that? our random babble ended up relevant
[03:21:22] <takyon> NYT giving Jones >95% chance of winning
[03:21:57] * TheMightyBuzzard isn't really concerned with bama
[03:22:10] <takyon> it's a national election TMB
[03:22:24] <takyon> our own user realDonaldTrump said so
[03:22:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> is it gonna tip control of a chamber one way or the other?
[03:22:58] <takyon> TheMightyBuzzard: Vice President Pence has broken more ties than any other VP in history. so one seat does make a difference
[03:23:40] <takyon> if you count McCain as a democrat as one angry AC was doing yesterday, then sure lol
[03:23:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> erm... you know we used to give the GE loser the VP seat, right?
[03:23:54] <takyon> yeah
[03:24:01] <takyon> don't think that lasted very long though
[03:24:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> i kinda gotta think your opponent would make a more annoying veep than even pence
[03:24:24] <takyon> and I think I meant that Pence has had more tie breakers than all other VPs in history COMBINED but I have to confirm that
[03:24:24] <takyon> can
[03:24:30] <takyon> can't right now, 2 buzy
[03:24:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, okay
[03:24:35] <Bytram> the Republican party has a slight majority in the senate, by party, but there is not entire agreement between party members... losing one more republican seat in the senate would greatly complicate their already troubled efforts to pass legislation without kowtowing to the democrats
[03:25:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> serves em right. they need to watch the jerk. learn the difference between shit and shinola.
[03:25:54] <takyon> Jones 49.7 to Moore 48.7
[03:26:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> the democrats lost to a party with no coherent message and no overall direction. how bad do people gotta think you suck for that to happen?
[03:26:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's without even factoring in cheeto jesus
[03:27:20] <chromas> Repub voters were a slight minority. Doesn't that make them oppressed?
[03:27:30] <takyon> Democrats winning in Alabama is not a thing that is supposed to happen
[03:27:38] <takyon> Repubs BTFO
[03:27:55] <chromas> So they're even more oppressed
[03:28:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> LOT of black folks in bama. and blue collar folks as well.
[03:28:13] <chromas> Democrat Colonialism!
[03:28:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> sorta, in that the democrats were the pro-slavery party and they're slavery leftovers that never got around to moving away.
[03:28:46] <chromas> I'd think the black folks wouldn't vote for dems 'cause they say black people are too dumb to get IDs
[03:30:01] <takyon> CNN projects Doug Jones as winner
[03:30:31] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: thanks for the link to Mr Jones
[03:30:47] <chromas> how may percents? 98?
[03:31:20] <takyon> 91% in
[03:31:29] <takyon> 49.7 to 48.6
[03:32:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> dis no time for love, dr. jones
[03:35:24] <Bytram> #g me and mrs jones
[03:35:25] <MrPlow> https://en.wikipedia.org - "\"Me and Mrs. Jones\" is a 1972 soul song written by Kenny Gamble, Leon Huff, and Cary Gilbert, and originally recorded by Billy Paul. It describes an extramarital affair between a man and his lover, Mrs. Jones. In the song, the two meet in secret \"every day at the same cafe\", where they hold hands and talk. The two are ..."
[03:37:42] <takyon> tweet.jpg
[03:38:24] <Bytram> okay, I've got yet another early day ahead of me tomorrow
[03:38:40] <Bytram> great to actually have a chance to chat with ya's -- been missing the interactions.
[03:40:14] <Bytram> have a great night everybody!
[03:44:24] <takyon> night
[03:56:39] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Depth of Jupiter's Great Red Spot Studied, and Two New Radiation Zones Found - http://sylnt.us - better-get-that-spot-checked
[04:11:10] <takyon> Trump tweeted!
[04:11:31] <takyon> https://twitter.com
[04:11:32] <upstart> ^ 03Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "Congratulations to Doug Jones on a hard fought victory. The write-in votes played a very big factor, but a win is a win. The people of Alaba… https://t.co"
[04:17:44] <Sulla> Dang did I miss the moore race?
[04:20:19] <Sulla> Also so much tldr above that was interesting meta stuff
[04:21:06] <takyon> which stuff was interesting
[04:21:43] <Sulla> About journal posting
[04:22:14] <takyon> I had just assumed all of those options were available
[04:24:13] <Fnord666> #submit https://www.engadget.com
[04:24:14] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[04:24:39] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[04:25:41] <Sulla> I was wondering what journal the person had posted that was being trolled by anons, as I did not recognize the user
[04:26:49] <takyon> me neither, let me look for the user
[04:27:15] <takyon> No usernames were found that match your query.
[04:29:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> all journals are trolled by anons. its a given.
[04:30:12] <takyon> *all comment sections
[04:30:44] <Sulla> What about IPs
[04:30:53] <Sulla> Promise im not cia
[04:30:57] <Sulla> I have to tell you if I am
[04:31:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> IP in the toilet. and sometimes off the porch.
[04:33:31] <Sulla> Why is it so common to shit on ACs who just want to stay anon?
[04:34:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> cause it shows a lack of bravery and conviction.
[04:36:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> or in crutchy's case, an admirable amount of laziness and an impressive amount of misplaced paranoia.
[04:36:22] <Sulla> Eh, I prefer those who are willing to make a good point and not take any credit for it
[04:36:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> on account of he clears cookies when he closes his browser and can't be arsed to log back in.
[04:37:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh come now, nobody gets credit for a good point on the internet. everyone just doubles down with another argument.
[04:40:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> sticking to one moniker and standing behind your statements says "i am utterly unafraid of your pathetic attempts at character assassination and willing to either back up or change my position on anything i utter"
[04:40:09] <takyon> using a pseudonymous user account doesn't eliminate much of your actual anonymity
[04:40:50] <takyon> and then we have some users where you can tell who they are even if they are posting anon. or anons that follow a clear pattern across multiple posts
[04:42:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> sure it does if you stick to one pseudonym. a chosen name is no more or less real than the one on your birth certificate. hell, i'm called some variation on my nick by nearly everyone on the planet who's ever addressed me.
[04:43:19] <takyon> if you have that concern, you make a completely different pseudonym just for soylent. or for every website you frequent
[04:43:40] <takyon> multiple pseudonym disorder
[04:44:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> which still at least allows you continuity and accountability within each community, just not between them.
[04:44:27] <takyon> right
[04:45:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> mine's my actual offline nickname as well though. used by everyone except the folks who gave me the name on my birth certificate pretty much.
[04:46:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> though i do prefer checks to have the same name as my ID.
[04:46:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> i think only my shrink uses my actual first name.
[04:48:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> the only really good reason to not register IMO is something like "i can't be arsed to keep up with another login/pass"
[04:48:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> i respect laziness
[04:48:53] <takyon> only time I get logged out is when I accidentally press logout or the site hiccups
[04:48:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> lazy++
[04:48:55] <Bender> karma - lazy: 24
[04:50:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... in ten minutes it'll be two hours past my bedtime. i can either go to bed and be a little tired in the morning or stay up a little later and take a four hour nap tomorrow instead of a two hour nap.
[04:51:23] <takyon> yeah I think I'll nap now
[04:51:52] <takyon> like moore is sleeping on it (not conceding)
[04:52:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~gnight #soylent
[04:52:04] * exec analiciously impales a buttload of 🐂💩 on #soylent
[04:52:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> huh, those actually went well together
[04:56:58] <chromas> So the kids really call you Uncle Buzz?
[05:07:59] -!- Exaeta has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[05:08:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup
[05:26:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Saturn's Rings Have an Effect on the Planet's Atmosphere - http://sylnt.us - if-you-want-it-you-should've-put-a-ring-on-it
[06:09:40] -!- crutchy [crutchy!~crutchy@204-76-850-909.NBN.mel.aussiebb.net] has joined #Soylent
[06:09:43] <exec> welcome crutchy: Melbourne VIC, Australia, 38°C/101°F, 5:09 pm GMT+11, Wednesday, 13 December 2017
[07:10:44] -!- Sulla has quit [Quit: Bye]
[07:15:06] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Devuan ASCII Sprint -- 15-17 Dec. 2017 - http://sylnt.us - do-you-want-to-help?
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[07:36:08] <crutchy> ~weather
[07:36:09] <exec> 06Melbourne VIC, Australia - currently 37°C, sunny, wind N at 27 km/h, humidity 13% - Wednesday mostly cloudy (21°C:37°C), Thursday partly cloudy (12°C:23°C), Friday sunny (13°C:25°C), Saturday mostly sunny (13°C:26°C)
[07:44:53] <chromas> Bender: s/help/build-a-distro/
[07:44:53] <upstart> <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Devuan ASCII Sprint -- 15-17 Dec. 2017 - http://sylnt.us - do-you-want-to-build-a-distro?
[07:48:59] <chromas> linux--
[07:48:59] <Bender> karma - linux: 8
[08:01:13] <crutchy> it'll never take off
[08:01:57] <chromas> It's true. That's why I run Haiku
[08:02:29] <boru> That's the BeOS fork, right?
[08:02:38] <boru> Didn't it used to be called something else?
[08:02:54] <chromas> BeOS
[08:02:55] <crutchy> i tried beos once when it came in a pc magazine cd
[08:03:05] <crutchy> yeeeeeaaars ago
[08:03:20] <boru> BeOS was called BeOS. Haiku used to be called something else.
[08:03:32] <boru> BeOS was pretty great.
[08:03:35] <boru> Quick to boot.
[08:03:58] <crutchy> ciri: i just farted
[08:03:59] <chromas> openbeos
[08:04:05] <chromas> Poor ciri
[08:04:16] <boru> I see.
[08:04:40] <chromas> I dunno; I just looked it up on the ol' deletopedia
[08:05:39] <boru> I'm not sure why there are so many Linux distros. All that seems to really differ are the package managers.
[08:05:49] <boru> And in many cases, not even that.
[08:06:09] <boru> Especially with the newer ones.
[08:06:10] <chromas> That's not all. They also put files in different directories
[08:06:24] <boru> "We installed KDE by default" doesn't warrant a distro.
[08:06:29] <boru> Heh, yeah, there is that.
[08:06:32] <chromas> Like some put web server stuff in /srv/http, while others have /var/www
[08:06:34] <boru> What's POSIX, right?
[08:06:57] <chromas> Some have a giant config for apache, while others break it up into a hundred includes
[08:07:15] <chromas> I'd like to see distros that do moar
[08:07:28] <boru> Seems like it just fragments the development effort.
[08:07:57] <chromas> Like, make a distro where just the basic stuff is in /system or something, then everything else is a package that runs from its own directory in an nspawn container
[08:08:25] <boru> Or just use a proper system like BSD.
[08:08:31] <chromas> Have an xml manifest file that tells it what permissions and directories it has access to
[08:08:41] <chromas> Make Linux Android Again
[08:08:43] <boru> Good grief, that would be horrendous.
[08:08:47] <boru> And probably be made by IBM.
[08:08:50] <boru> Yeah, or google.
[08:09:10] <boru> Oracle Linux™
[08:09:18] <boru> Now that they've killed Solaris.
[08:09:20] <chromas> It'd be neat if you could just install applications by sticking the package in a folder
[08:09:29] <chromas> I'n't that how macossex works now?
[08:10:06] * chromas runs off to recompile everything with static libs
[08:10:09] <boru> Well, since most packages use install(1) to do precisely that...
[08:10:20] <boru> Man, I really need some coffee.
[08:10:28] <chromas> They ejaculate their files all over the root though
[08:10:54] <chromas> filesystem bukakke
[08:11:19] * boru is detecting a theme.
[08:12:13] * chromas creates pornux
[08:15:52] <boru> Is it a Lennux fork?
[08:15:55] * chromas also creates FreeBSDm
[08:16:33] <boru> It sounds like you really need to get out and chase some tail.
[08:22:33] <chromas> So…no BSD then?
[08:24:26] <boru> What do you mean? I really need some coffee...
[08:25:29] <SoyGuest22783> me too
[08:25:33] <SoyGuest22783> mornin' all
[08:26:01] <boru> Ah, it's Phil. Morning, old chap.
[08:26:13] * boru kldload coffee.ko
[08:56:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Full Moons Linked to Increased Motorcyclist Deaths - http://sylnt.us - dark-side-of-the-moon
[08:57:38] * SoyGuest22783 's coffee just segfaulted
[08:58:36] <SoyGuest22783> and that was on the second attempt to make it. on the first attempt, I forgot to put coffee in it. :(
[09:09:10] <boru> Sounds like you need to run coffeedbg.
[09:27:01] <SoyGuest22783> Nearly quit my job yesterday.
[09:27:13] <SoyGuest22783> That was a mistake.
[09:27:24] <SoyGuest22783> Gonna do it today instead.
[09:27:34] <boru> Why's that?
[09:27:52] <SoyGuest22783> I just seem to be on a different wavelength as all of my workmates.
[09:28:11] <SoyGuest22783> modulo grammar
[09:29:03] <SoyGuest22783> I want randomised unit tests to be reproduceable, so that once you find a crashing case, you can debug it.
[09:29:43] <boru> Sounds reasonable to me.
[09:29:46] <SoyGuest22783> IT was a feature I wrote, and was accepted, over a year ago.
[09:30:40] <SoyGuest22783> but in order to migrate to a "real random numbers everywhere in production" upgrade, it had to be removed.
[09:31:10] <boru> I don't get it.
[09:32:09] <SoyGuest22783> So I rewrote it. During tests, you can now set a "please use a *P*RNG" switch. Tada - it tells you what it seeded with, and you can tell it to re-use that sequence in subsequent runs.
[09:32:41] <SoyGuest22783> complaints this time include:
[09:32:56] <SoyGuest22783> I don't want this as the default RNG.
[09:33:23] <SoyGuest22783> Don't roll your own PRNGs (I used Margaglia's KISS32, as noted in the code and the commit message)
[09:33:36] <SoyGuest22783> I don't believe in randomised tests
[09:34:58] <SoyGuest22783> To be honest. I don't think I can respond to comments like that politely. So am retreating into a cave, and not going near my work laptop until I've calmed down.
[09:35:50] <SoyGuest22783> The final one sounds like "never fuzz test" to me. The biggest advances in hardenning software in the last decade has been fuzz testing.
[10:36:34] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Google and NASA to Reveal Mysterious New Space Find - http://sylnt.us - they-found-Jimmy-Hoffa
[11:19:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[11:19:14] <Bender> karma - coffee: 3805
[11:24:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> SoyGuest22783, just do like Bytram and exhaust every possible input value
[11:24:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> why use a random number when you can use ALL OF THE NUMBERS
[11:26:46] <chromas> Well that's a good point. With random numbers, you waste a lot of time trying the same numbers over again.
[11:27:09] <chromas> But maybe there's a bug you'll only find by being redundant. Hm.
[11:27:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> mind you, Bytram won't stop at numbers. he'll feed it letters and emoji and shit too.
[11:29:13] <chromas> Also needs invalid unichode codepoints
[11:29:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> 💩
[11:29:35] * exec chucks a nasty sloppy dogshit at aqu4
[11:29:45] <chromas> ah
[11:29:46] <chromas> oh
[11:29:58] <chromas> this installation doesn't have the fonts :'(
[11:30:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> exec needs a new target. aqu4 been gone a while now.
[11:30:57] <chromas> exec: s/aqu4/systemd/
[11:30:57] <upstart> <exec> 06Melbourne VIC, Australia - currently 37°C, sunny, wind N at 27 km/h, humidity 13% - Wednesday mostly cloudy (21°C:37°C), Thursday partly cloudy (12°C:23°C), Friday sunny (13°C:25°C), Saturday mostly sunny (13°C:26°C)
[11:31:03] <chromas> heh
[11:31:24] <chromas> Probably still haven't connected OnAction()
[11:34:49] <chromas> "apt-cache search" doesn't seem to show package installed status
[11:34:56] <chromas> debian--
[11:34:56] <Bender> karma - debian: 47
[11:36:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> apt--
[11:36:40] <Bender> karma - apt: -3
[11:36:50] <chromas> Yea, verily
[11:37:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> eix++
[11:37:03] <Bender> karma - eix: 1
[11:37:17] <chromas> aptitude does it, but it always has to screw around building indexes or something first
[11:37:28] <chromas> #g eix
[11:37:28] <MrPlow> https://finance.yahoo.com - "View the basic EIX stock chart on Yahoo Finance. Change the date range, chart type and compare Edison International against other companies."
[11:37:29] <boru> debian-- is right: https://bugs.debian.org
[11:37:29] <Bender> karma - debian: 46
[11:37:32] <upstart> ^ 03#52586 - bash: popen(3) drops privileges if /bin/sh is bash 2.03-1 - Debian Bug report logs
[11:37:49] <chromas> I thought dash was default in debian
[11:38:33] * chromas invents a gnu-free distro just to head Stallman off at the pass
[11:40:41] <chromas> #g stallman copypasta
[11:40:42] <MrPlow> https://www.lurkmore.com - "Aug 5, 2012 ... The GNU/Linux interjection speech is copypasta that was cut together based on Stallman's rant and other pieces of his writings over the years. GNU/Linux interjection. I'd just like to interject for moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus ..."
[11:52:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> #g gentoo eix
[11:52:00] <MrPlow> https://wiki.gentoo.org - "eix is a set of utilities for searching and diffing local ebuild repositories using a binary cache. It is made to be more efficient and flexible than the emerge --search command. eix comes with colorized output which helps users easily find the needed package information."
[11:52:55] <chromas> Blasphemer!
[11:53:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> you tryin to keep outputs of color down? racis!
[11:55:37] <chromas> But the default background is black. That means it's at the bottom, supporting all the other coloreds
[11:55:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> means it's in the majority
[11:55:58] <chromas> Bottom of both the progressive and rendering stack
[11:56:20] <chromas> You have to understand the historical context.
[11:56:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> i do not and you can't make me
[11:57:31] <chromas> It may be the majority now but both systemic and systematic (we use them interchangeably) oppression in the age of paper requires them to demand gibbs today
[11:59:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~define (.Y.)
[11:59:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> oooh, i may have broke him
[12:00:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~weather
[12:00:10] <exec> 10Humboldt, TN - currently 24°F, partly cloudy, wind S at 4 mph, humidity 84% - Wednesday cloudy (31°F:55°F), Thursday mostly sunny (26°F:43°F), Friday sunny (29°F:46°F), Saturday mostly sunny (39°F:55°F)
[12:00:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> blah
[12:00:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> which reminds me. woke up this morning and my thermometer was reading 00 for an outside temperature.
[12:01:19] <chromas> It lost power. You need to set the temp again
[12:01:25] <chromas> Was it blinking?
[12:01:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> i was like wtf. then i realized those weren't zeroes, they were balls.
[12:02:30] <chromas> It's cold as balls out there?
[12:02:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> indeed
[12:02:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> #g "balls cold"
[12:02:51] <MrPlow> https://www.urbandictionary.com - "A time where it is so cold that the warmest part of your body is affected by it - your balls. Common during the winter, esp. in Chicago, New York, and Nantucket."
[12:03:19] <chromas> Retraction
[12:09:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[12:09:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[12:09:12] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 526
[12:16:48] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Ticks May Have Infested Feathered Dinosaurs - http://sylnt.us - jurassic-park-2.0
[12:43:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt ticks brad paisley
[12:43:00] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com
[13:30:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> blarg. i don't feel like coding rehash right now. think ima stand pat with what i've already got done for the december release.
[13:35:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> ha! my pull request is #420
[13:47:10] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Breakthrough Listen to Observe Interstellar Asteroid 'Oumuamua for Radio Emissions - http://sylnt.us - listening-for-the-little-green-men
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[15:25:06] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Human-Sized Penguins Once Roamed New Zealand - http://sylnt.us - penguin-was-stoned
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[17:06:22] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Netflix Mocks Christmas Film Viewing Habits in "Creepy" Tweet - http://sylnt.us - 1984-people-watched-'1984'-yesterday
[18:46:36] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Android 8.0 Oreo Running on 0.5% of Android Devices - http://sylnt.us - who-doesn't-like-Oreos
[20:07:01] <SoyGuest22783> beer++
[20:07:01] <Bender> karma - beer: 66
[20:16:58] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Politics: Jones Wins Upset in Alabama Senate Race - http://sylnt.us - It's-Fake-News-until-the-Fat-Man-Sings
[21:48:06] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Geminid Meteors to Peak on December 13–14 - http://sylnt.us - rain-and-snow-predicted-for-your-area
[22:13:26] <pinchy> what has Alabama done for u?
[22:36:37] <Sulla> I presume they grow some tobacco I might use
[22:36:42] <Sulla> Other than that nothing
[22:37:31] <chromas> #g alabama man
[22:37:32] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com - "Feb 27, 2011 ... Alabama man! hes quick hes strong hes active!"
[23:15:55] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - US Once Again Requires That You Register Your Drone - http://sylnt.us - we-drone-on