#Soylent | Logs for 2017-08-08

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[00:23:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> pinchy, zazzle giving you problems getting it delivered?
[00:26:52] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Free Speech Advocate Jordan Peterson (Temporarily) Shut Down by Google - http://sylnt.us - their-tubes,-their-rules,-no-matter-the-illogic
[00:57:07] <pinchy> i guessi can get me a john deere cap and sew a soylent sticker on top of it
[00:57:08] <pinchy> https://www.reddit.com
[00:57:08] <upstart> ^ 03Paris, how are those refugees working out for you? : The_Donald
[01:01:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> pinchy, if they're seriously not delivering i'll hit Deucalion up after he shows up and have him chew some asses.
[01:03:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> or possibly NCommander since he's currently doing treasurer duty as well as COO/president/board member
[01:03:53] * NCommander has been summoned
[01:03:57] <NCommander> *poof*
[01:04:09] * TheMightyBuzzard points at pinchy
[01:04:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> zazzle's no deliver
[01:04:39] <NCommander> .... I honestly have no idea who has those credneitals.
[01:04:56] <NCommander> I *think* the last person to deal with the SN merc was Mattie or mrcoolbp
[01:04:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> and also don't let me forget i want to get some GOOD hats in. will need your help since you got all da moneys.
[01:05:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> hang on, i think our store login/pass is in that email mrcoolbp sent me.
[01:05:50] <NCommander> pinchy, do you have your sales order and such? Confirmation code and shat?
[01:05:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> pm inc
[01:07:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> shit, we have a google+ account?
[01:07:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> and pinterest?
[01:07:50] <pinchy> yall actually have stuff for sale? I was just jesting like a good IRCer
[01:08:10] * TheMightyBuzzard facepalms
[01:08:51] <pinchy> haha WOW
[01:08:57] <pinchy> they actualy DO have truckers caps
[01:09:08] <pinchy> lol
[01:09:09] <pinchy> damn
[01:09:10] * NCommander facepalms
[01:09:15] <NCommander> pinchy, we sold a total of one of those
[01:09:21] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I do believe we got trolled.
[01:09:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, funny. but yeah we actually have crap for sale. i think the hats suck ass though so i got juggs to okay a few dozen good ones.
[01:09:30] <pinchy> https://www.zazzle.com
[01:09:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, troof. it was a good one though.
[01:09:58] <pinchy> i donated a years to subscription to some dude
[01:10:24] <NCommander> pinchy, that was probably me. my alt is the default if you want to make an anonymous subscription
[01:10:33] <pinchy> hope they dont trace it back to me somehow. the page said leave a comment or it defaults to your username
[01:10:50] <NCommander> pinchy, I remember when we said we were low on funding. so many "mcasadevall has been gifted a subscription"
[01:11:22] <pinchy> actually it was jmorris who i dontated it too teehee
[01:11:30] <pinchy> and before that it was ethanol fueled ;)
[01:12:05] <pinchy> i think its funny coz ppl bash em and then one day they see "omg that dude bought a subscription"
[01:12:16] <NCommander> pinchy, that is quite possibly the best "From" entry I've ever seen
[01:12:24] <NCommander> Your Arch Ne
[01:12:25] <NCommander> mesis
[01:12:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, if you got time this weekend and feel like weighing in on hat styles to get let me know. i'm prolly gonna pick a nice summer cammo hat i can fish in but i don't have a lot of preference beyond that.
[01:12:33] <NCommander> ... where the fuck did that linebreak go
[01:12:50] <pinchy> actually I dont really hate or even like any of them. the comments are interesting
[01:12:54] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, we should ask the sites greatest trolls to donate a bit of their souls and hang it on the hate
[01:13:00] <pinchy> i might throw some points here and there
[01:13:08] <NCommander> pinchy, I appreicate the humour though
[01:13:15] <NCommander> pinchy, I've been known to troll the community a fair bit
[01:13:29] <pinchy> but honestly all these sites liek syolent hackernews, slashdot. how in the FUCK do ppl have the time to write the comments
[01:13:35] <pinchy> i see the same names all the time
[01:13:40] <pinchy> its like do they have jobs?
[01:14:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> well, we're getting them monogrammed anyway. no point in not personalizing a few for our top couple trolls/submitters/commenters
[01:14:10] <NCommander> pinchy, the truth is TheMightyBuzzard is just an IRC bot I got overly ambitious on
[01:14:35] * TheMightyBuzzard goes to take a core dump
[01:14:51] <Bytram> NCommander: can't be true... is FAR too terse!
[01:14:53] <NCommander> Some people see the Turning test as impossible. I saw a challenge :)
[01:15:14] <NCommander> Bytram, I coded him on an Apple II. RAM is fucking expensive.
[01:15:19] * Bytram just read scrollback -- well-trolled
[01:15:23] <Bytram> ROFLMAO!
[01:15:50] <Bytram> I remember dropping a couple hundred buck to upgrade a laptop with another 16MB of RAM
[01:15:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, you should try an SJW bot. most of them pass as human while being utterly devoid of anything resembling intelligence.
[01:15:57] <NCommander> Actually, I'm fairly sure if you took all my novels together, it would exceed the system ram on an Apple II running AppleWorks
[01:16:10] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, easier to just rent some from reddit
[01:16:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> troo
[01:16:18] <Bytram> I'm rather certain, actually.
[01:16:36] <NCommander> I wish I had free time at the moment
[01:16:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> aight, i need nicotine.
[01:16:39] <NCommander> Stupid startup
[01:16:50] * NCommander has little inclination to do tech projects when I'm involved with coding day in and out
[01:16:59] <NCommander> Won't mind doing a new retrocomputing project
[01:17:12] <Bytram> NCommander: good to 'see' ya here... I'm not in a startup but have been woefully low on spare time for thepast couple weeks
[01:17:32] <NCommander> Bytram, at least we're no longer in the era of the site when it used to crash doing nothing at all
[01:17:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> well find a few minutes this weekend. i'm gonna go talk to an embroiderer local to me see what kinda deals i can swing.
[01:17:41] * NCommander "fondly" remembers these days
[01:17:46] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I can do that no prob.
[01:18:02] <Bytram> and the 'class' we took for chain-of-command type stuff
[01:18:11] <NCommander> Better than the management silos
[01:18:21] * NCommander isn't bitter on how that all played out. Not at all :(
[01:18:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> really don't need much except to know where to have them send the bill and any input you got on the thing in general.
[01:18:32] <Bytram> I remember one time I was a the helm... somehow survived without pissing off everybody... success!
[01:18:49] <Bytram> managementsilos--
[01:18:49] <Bender> karma - managementsilos: -1
[01:19:04] <Bytram> NCommander: yes, I whole-heartedly agree on that count
[01:19:09] <NCommander> Bytram, the only time we ever got close to a community rebellion was the commenting update, and we were able to justify that on technical grounds.
[01:19:16] <NCommander> Well, and subs v1
[01:19:17] * TheMightyBuzzard ponders how to ship a few dozen individual hats without crushing them or paying out the nose
[01:19:19] <NCommander> But we aboutfaced on that
[01:19:37] <Bytram> you mean the TNG/TOS stuff?
[01:20:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[01:20:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[01:20:23] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 436
[01:20:24] <NCommander> Bytram, well, the fact that it was a rewrite of Comments.pm and didn't quite go well. We also had an update completely blotch commenting back in the early days and we got an ear full for that
[01:20:37] <Bytram> that was a very rough period as I recall, but we engaged the community, kept them informed, solicited feedback, and as they say 'got er done'
[01:20:51] <NCommander> Bytram, pretty much. Communities are pretty tolerant when we don't blindside them
[01:21:00] <Bytram> nod nod
[01:21:02] <NCommander> Bytram, fuck, we manage to go through every 4/1 without having a revolt
[01:21:10] <Bytram> lol
[01:21:29] <Bytram> I think the best 4/1 we could do is to do... nothing!
[01:21:43] <Bytram> let 'em look and squirm and wonder... for nothing.
[01:22:23] <NCommander> Slashdot already did that the first DICE year
[01:22:35] <NCommander> We all kept wondering when the penny would drop
[01:22:40] <Bytram> Alfred Hitchcock took great advantage of people's imagination... he knew to leave it to each person's imagination to fill in the details for the scene in Psycho, for example
[01:23:25] <Bytram> maybe drom in a unicode rtl mark before every other story?
[01:29:19] <Bytram> break time
[01:30:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> cool. roomie's looking to get 4-5 dozen hats embroidered too. i'll see if i can get us a bulk discount.
[01:31:40] <chromas> SoylentNewdz
[01:32:18] * TheMightyBuzzard fires up his webcam
[01:33:04] * Bytram kept waiting for the green site to change their byline (say on 4/1) to be: nudes for nerds, studs that matter
[01:34:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah. ima just put an <audio> tag in pointing to a rick astley mp3 and see how many people's browsers honor the autoplay option in them.
[01:35:04] <chromas> They don't use their slogan anymore so we should kipe it
[01:35:54] <chromas> NCommander: what kinda startup? Or is it a secret?
[01:36:19] <NCommander> chromas, building network security devices. We're in late-alpha testing
[01:37:08] <NCommander> chromas, basically a scaled down pentest, combined with what I call the network data recorder, essentially a network blackbox that records all machines on your network, and runs IDS stuff and acts as a log server
[01:37:20] <Bytram> He's putting a sock on it, so to speak
[01:38:12] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, embed it as a base64 encoded HTML so it doesn't trip most adblocks. Most of them block 3rd party loads, but not hte audio tag itself
[01:38:14] <chromas> I don't need to hear about that
[01:38:16] <chromas> But go on
[01:38:39] * TheMightyBuzzard nods to NCommander
[01:39:10] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, and for further troll points, put it on a 2-3 minute delay before playing so it's not clear what tab is doing it :)
[01:39:18] <NCommander> chromas, me or TheMightyBuzzard
[01:39:24] <chromas> Bytram
[01:39:25] <chromas> :D
[01:39:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> ooooh, good thinking.
[01:39:32] * chromas just turns everything dirty
[01:40:03] * Bytram offers chromas a bar of soap
[01:40:13] * chromas tries to not drop it
[01:40:44] <chromas> I think all the browsers show a speaker icon in the tabs now
[01:40:51] <chromas> or some little animation
[01:41:26] <Bytram> do-the-twist.js
[01:41:39] * chromas wonders if heat shrink tubing is reusable
[01:42:15] <Bytram> if it is, that would be cool
[01:43:05] <chromas> snare-snare-hihat.wav
[01:43:48] <Bytram> two-shays.mp3
[01:45:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> god damn i'm a bad motherfucker. i get wood at how fast comments render on heavily commented stories now.
[01:46:26] <Bytram> I know it is hard on the servers, but sometimes I wish I still could load ALL the comments in a story, no matter how many there are.
[01:46:55] <chromas> I wish replying to a comment didn't load the whole comment tree if I've opened it in its own tab
[01:47:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, ~blame paulej72
[01:47:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> personally i like how it works now. i don't have to have them in their own tabs anymore.
[01:48:04] <Bytram> actually blame trying to preserve state in a stateless medium
[01:48:04] <chromas> The url should be different so it's probably do-able
[01:48:45] <chromas> ya-mama-joke.flac
[01:49:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, you don't get the cid returned from mysql when you insert a new comment. you'd have to do a lookup on the most recent comment by $user->{uid} then find out what story it's attached to then build the url.
[01:49:40] <chromas> What about the referrer url?
[01:50:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's user input which we try to never ever ever ever trust
[01:50:24] <Bytram> while we are on the topic...
[01:50:25] <chromas> You don't have to trust it too much.
[01:50:38] <chromas> It's not a big deal; just thinking of the poor servers
[01:51:21] <Bytram> instead of going by most-recent CID, one could go by a unix epoch timestamp of the most-recently-read-comment for a story; then just: SELECT foo, bar... FROM ... where time > ts.
[01:51:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> servers are lurving the new comments code. 150+ on a story doesn't even phase them now.
[01:51:55] <Bytram> ISTR we dropped the front-end cache and just hit the DB directly now, is that correct?
[01:52:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> long ago, yep
[01:52:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> when we went to apache 2.2
[01:52:25] <Bytram> then again, we're hitting against SSD instead of spinning rust... that's gotta help, too
[01:52:49] <chromas> When are you switching to IIS?
[01:52:49] <Bytram> and... have double the RAM we used to have on each box, too.
[01:52:55] <Bytram> when you code it
[01:52:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> nope, hitting ram directly. the db servers keep the whole bloody thing in memory. or at least a hell of a lot of it.
[01:53:05] <Bytram> oh goodie!
[01:53:06] <chromas> so it's web scale?
[01:53:22] * chromas installs mongodb
[01:53:34] <Bytram> ask Charlette(sp?)
[01:53:45] * TheMightyBuzzard asks alice instead
[01:53:49] <chromas> I didn't understand that reference
[01:54:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> #g go ask alice
[01:54:05] <MrPlow> http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu - "Alice! is not one person, but a team. The Go Ask Alice! site is supported by a team of Columbia University health promotion specialists, health care providers, ..."
[01:54:08] * chromas would turn in his nerd card if he sitll had it
[01:54:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> #smake google
[01:54:13] * MrPlow smakes google upside the head with seats and a steering wheel
[01:54:17] <Bytram> does this help: 'some pig'
[01:54:31] <chromas> oh yes. babe
[01:54:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt white rabbit jefferson airplane
[01:54:38] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com
[01:54:39] <Bytram> next hint: E. B. WHite
[01:54:55] <chromas> that'll do, mongodb. that'll do
[01:55:23] <Bytram> huh? Mon God B ?? Whatever happened to Mon God *A* ??
[01:55:41] * chromas spills his electronics on the floor
[01:56:15] <chromas> he died. hunting accident
[01:56:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> went hunting with dick cheney?
[01:56:38] <Bytram> read the article about loneliness on our site earlier today... helped put in perspective how much I appreciate hanging out with you guys!
[01:56:43] <chromas> Had info on Hillary
[01:57:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> makes sense
[01:57:17] <Bytram> there's absolutely NO WAY anyone at work could follow along, never mind laugh like I have over the past hour or so, following along with this little bit of reparte'
[01:57:45] <chromas> sometimes I forget there's a website too
[01:58:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, s/epa/efa/
[01:58:00] <upstart> <Bytram> there's absolutely NO WAY anyone at work could follow along, never mind laugh like I have over the past hour or so, following along with this little bit of refarte'
[01:58:01] * Bytram points over there --->
[01:58:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> for accuracy
[01:58:44] * Bytram prefers precision -- more alliteration
[01:59:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> ain't alliteration awesome?
[01:59:27] <Bytram> well, that's another half-dozen stories in the queue.
[01:59:35] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard++ Kudos!
[01:59:35] <Bender> karma - themightybuzzard: 305
[01:59:55] * TheMightyBuzzard ain't doing any site work this week most likely
[02:00:09] <Bytram> and on that positive note, is really time for me to turn in the sack.
[02:00:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> got an iot widgit to design and hats to deal with.
[02:00:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> nite
[02:00:41] <Bytram> oh yeah... keep in mind the cost of a cell plan for each site, too.
[02:00:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> yarp
[02:01:01] <Bytram> or POTS, if you can go that route, instead.
[02:01:17] <Bytram> all righty then... have a great night everyone!
[02:01:20] <Bytram> afk
[02:02:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://www.youtube.com
[02:02:07] <upstart> ^ 03Steppenwolf - Magic Carpet Ride 1968 HQ - YouTube
[02:05:41] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The npm Blog — `crossenv` Malware on the npm Registry - http://sylnt.us - imagine-permitting-unicode-package-names
[02:08:57] <chromas> I think unicode needs more whitespace characters
[02:09:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, just more emoji.
[02:09:57] <chromas> You know, the real problem is that the space is white
[02:10:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> need dual colored poop emojis so nobody gets offended
[02:10:13] <chromas> you can select the emojis colors now. why can't we do that with space chars?
[02:10:34] <chromas> FUCK YOU, TheMightyBuzzard!!! What about NONBINARY POOP?!
[02:10:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> you could always select their color in gtk
[02:10:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> i took a non-binary poop the other day
[02:11:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> it got halfway out and stopped. drastic measures almost had to be taken.
[02:11:56] <chromas> Can't let that port be bidirectional
[02:12:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> homophone
[02:14:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> homophone: https://www.flickr.com
[02:14:16] <upstart> ^ 03gay telephone | Not sure if this is an undercoat or finished… | b3N bR0WN | Flickr
[02:15:24] * TheMightyBuzzard heads off to bed as well
[02:25:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> before i go...
[02:25:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit https://www.bloomberg.com
[02:25:13] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[02:25:38] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[02:34:03] <chromas> Diversity of opinions is bad, m'kay
[03:57:05] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Autonomous Vehicle Legislation Soon to Appear in House - http://sylnt.us - vote-for-the-motion,-or-roko's-basilisk-will-run-you-over
[05:35:45] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Modern American Elites Have Come to Favour Inconspicuous Consumption - http://sylnt.us - put-your-hand-over-your-mouth
[07:27:09] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - We Try Japan's Non-Melting Ice Cream to See if It's for Real - http://sylnt.us - science-can-be-cool
[09:08:25] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Sea Lice, and Later Amphipods, Blamed for Attack on Melbourne Teen's Legs - http://sylnt.us - don't-let-us-put-you-off-your-breakfast
[09:35:48] <pinchy> fired his ass i see, let the commenting begin
[09:39:28] <boru> Reminds me of that statement Angela Merkel made last year, I think, regarding 'illegal opinions'; I think it's safe to say we have passed the point of abject absurdity in the Western world where opinions can be illegal...
[09:55:23] <pinchy> i had a counselor at uni make a comment along similar lines https://news.ycombinator.com
[09:55:24] <upstart> ^ 03My sister was extremely put off going into CS after the career adviser at her sc... | Hacker News
[09:55:51] <pinchy> i told them i wanted to change majors from mechanical eng to math and he said "u wont make as much money"
[09:57:14] <pinchy> proceed to give them the middle finger
[09:58:05] <boru> Heh, quite right.
[10:00:20] <boru> I'd find mech eng more interesting, personally.
[10:01:07] <pinchy> the reason i wanted to switch was because all we did in ME was computer stuff. fortran and autocad on windows 3.1
[10:01:08] <boru> I did EE, and then CS. Oft wish I'd studied optics and photonics.
[10:01:24] <boru> F77?
[10:01:43] <pinchy> i cant remember i think it was F8x variant
[10:01:46] * boru nods.
[10:02:00] <pinchy> but of course now do computer stuff all day
[10:02:15] <boru> Depends on the industry, I guess.
[10:02:30] <boru> I'm free of my foray into semiconductors, finally.
[10:02:35] <boru> Back to space.
[10:02:47] <pinchy> i had envisioned working for a race team designing engines
[10:03:11] <boru> Plenty of that going on in .de
[10:03:14] <pinchy> i grew up a gear head, but also dabbled with home computers
[10:03:59] * boru nods.
[10:04:03] <boru> AFK for a bit.
[10:04:04] <pinchy> my dream job at this point would be doing software for spacecraft or involved with LHC or telescope
[10:04:29] <boru> I have much to say/advise on that subject, when I return, if you're interested.
[10:04:45] <boru> I'm back to onboard embedded stuff for LEO in a month or two.
[10:04:53] <pinchy> oh really?! cool
[10:05:08] <boru> I've worked on control systems for big scopes, too.
[10:05:13] <boru> Anyway, AFK for a bit.
[10:05:22] <pinchy> get outa here haha
[10:47:13] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Almost 200 ISPs imposing data limits in the US - http://sylnt.us - the-new-normal
[11:16:57] <boru> Aye.
[11:17:48] <boru> Well, I'll be working on GPS-OR RX in LEO, and then ground segment stuff as well.
[11:37:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[11:37:48] <Bender> karma - coffee: 3580
[11:37:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> bleh++
[11:37:52] <Bender> karma - bleh: 1
[11:57:17] <boru> What's ails you, old chap?
[12:02:50] <pinchy> hi ho off to work i go
[12:03:05] <pinchy> ol boru will have to pik your grey matter later
[12:03:09] -!- pinchy has quit [Quit: kids come running for the great taste of sampo]
[12:04:08] <boru> Sure th--
[12:06:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> boru, left my phone in the living room and it failed to wake me up at my normal 5am.
[12:06:57] <boru> You need an alarm clock; you'll never leave one of those in the fridge.
[12:07:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh ye of little faith
[12:07:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> many is the time that's exactly where i've found the tv remote
[12:08:26] <boru> And a side of beef on your bed stand?
[12:08:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> i should just set up a cron job
[12:08:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> and a hotkey to kill it
[12:10:26] <boru> `kill -STFU`
[12:10:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> ed zackery
[12:13:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... roomie ain't gonna have time to do up a half dozen or so graphics for the caps we're ordering till this evening. i might be able to come with one in that time.
[12:15:19] <boru> Variations on a meat theme.
[12:15:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> well soylentnews IS people and people are meat...
[12:19:02] <boru> Precisely.
[12:20:19] * TheMightyBuzzard debates getting "The Mighty Buzzard (18)" or "Anonymous Coward (1)" embroidered on the back of his cap
[12:21:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> eh, i never hide. "The Mighty Buzzard (18)" it is.
[12:22:25] <boru> Your UID is 18?
[12:24:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya
[12:24:50] <boru> Can I kill the owner of 1337 and usurp their UID?
[12:24:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> i was hanging out in irc when NCommander said "hey, we need some volunteers to alpha test"
[12:25:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... i dunno who even has that uid
[12:25:48] <boru> I've never seen them comment, at least.
[12:25:54] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - DebConf17 August 6-12 in Montreal - http://sylnt.us - come-join-us
[12:26:04] <boru> Grounds enough for murder, I should think.
[12:26:12] * NCommander changes TheMightyBuzzard's UID to 4294967295
[12:26:34] <boru> Pft, they're 32b unsigned?
[12:26:51] <NCommander> Actually, they might be 32-bit signed. MySQL has ... variable definitions of what its data types are
[12:26:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://soylentnews.org
[12:27:03] <NCommander> actually, I'm fairly sure they're signed, since AC used to be -1
[12:27:21] * NCommander has UIDs 2 and 6
[12:27:29] <boru> Well, it's just bits. I guess I can settle for -1337 in a decade or so.
[12:27:58] <NCommander> UIDs are the only thing that has more envy the smaller it is.
[12:28:11] * boru chuckles.
[12:28:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> | uid | mediumint(8) unsigned | NO | PRI | NULL | auto_increment |
[12:28:51] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, so ... 3-bit?
[12:28:56] <NCommander> *bytes
[12:29:05] <NCommander> ... why the fuck does MySQL have a 3-byte int?
[12:29:07] * TheMightyBuzzard waits for chromas to notice that and script a bot to overflow us with registrations
[12:29:11] <NCommander> in what world does that make sense.
[12:29:14] <NCommander> WHY
[12:30:04] <NCommander> I mean, I've seen 24-bit systems before but MySQL never ran on them
[12:30:10] <NCommander> ARGH
[12:30:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> pretty sure he could have us throwing errors by lunchtime
[12:30:33] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, then I'll delete all the excess ones :P
[12:30:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, we really only need the first hundred or so
[12:30:54] <NCommander> I mean its like that data type was made to hold the memory address on a 80286 or early mac
[12:31:02] <NCommander> !maxuid
[12:31:08] <NCommander> !uid
[12:31:09] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 6661, owned by Gypsy1230
[12:31:29] * NCommander remebers when that number was 6 :)
[12:31:37] * TheMightyBuzzard chuckles
[12:31:56] <NCommander> sorry, I don't have this rant out my system yet
[12:32:11] <NCommander> WHY IS MYSQL SUCH A GIANT PILE OF FAIL WRAPPED UP IN ORACLE EVIL!
[12:32:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> feel free to do up a pr changing it to a 32bit int. that should cover us for quite some time at current growth rates.
[12:32:45] <NCommander> WHY IS '' == NULL, WHERE IS ACTUAL USEFUL FUNCTIONALITY LIKE STORED PROCEDURES OR
[12:33:22] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I've just been designed databases as a 64-bit int. You actually get a performance penality (granted minor) for using 32-bit ints on 64-bit systems because the top doubleword has to be masked
[12:33:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> huh
[12:33:59] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, depends on the specific database TBH. postgres stores it internally as 64-bit on 64-bit systems
[12:34:12] <NCommander> But knowing MySQL, it stores it on a piece of toliet paper
[12:34:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> we probably get the hell out of that hit then. everything we use except comment ids are 32-bit or less.
[12:34:50] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, ... we use perl, perl is smart enough to do bigint promotion
[12:34:53] <NCommander> It's not PHP for gods sake
[12:34:54] <chromas> See, I told ya. mongodb man
[12:34:59] <NCommander> .op
[12:34:59] -!- mode/#Soylent [+o NCommander] by Aphrodite
[12:35:05] -!- chromas was kicked from #Soylent by NCommander!~mcasadeva@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mcasadevall [BLASPHEMY]
[12:35:09] -!- chromas [chromas!~chromas@0::1] has joined #Soylent
[12:35:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> no i mean internally in the db.
[12:35:12] <chromas> lol
[12:35:20] <chromas> from the webscale dept
[12:35:36] * TheMightyBuzzard does not want webs on his scale
[12:35:37] <NCommander> chromas, I actually don't have an issue w/ NoSQL per say. I think its drastically misused a lot of the time though
[12:35:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> spiders suck ass
[12:35:52] <NCommander> chromas, what I do have a problem with is Mongo and the drunken monkeys. It makes me LONG for mysql
[12:36:02] <chromas> TheMightyBuzzard: Did it give affirmative consent?
[12:36:26] <chromas> 1,000 drunken monkies at a typewriter?
[12:36:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> they're spiders, who's to say?
[12:36:44] <chromas> TheMightyBuzzard: now you're blaming the victim
[12:36:48] <NCommander> chromas, knowing TMB, any spider who sucks his ass will die of alchocol poisoning. TMB is probably at least 20% volume by weight Tennessee Whiskey
[12:37:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, it makes me long long for mysql
[12:37:08] * TheMightyBuzzard snickers
[12:37:20] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, you joke, I've seen a long long long type.
[12:37:23] <NCommander> (Itanium, 128-bit)
[12:37:25] * chromas signs tmb's long
[12:37:42] * TheMightyBuzzard scratches his brain and goes to refill it with caffeine
[12:37:48] <NCommander> chromas, it's decieptively long. It's really a short penis;, but he casts it all over the codebase
[12:38:02] <chromas> Bender: grab NCommander
[12:38:02] <Bender> Added quote 840
[12:38:18] <chromas> Seems like giving names to lengths is kinda dumb
[12:38:18] <NCommander> God, there are a stupid amount of puns in that joke.
[12:38:30] <chromas> u16, u32, u64. that's better
[12:39:01] <NCommander> chromas, there are actually (rare) times where you need short/int/long vs an actual size definition to get portable code
[12:39:49] <chromas> Isn't that something a sed script could handle?
[12:40:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> rust, baby. "let uid = 18_u64;" and yer done.
[12:40:09] <NCommander> chromas, it's specifically dealing with cases when you're dealing with C code that interfaces with inline ASM and has to be cross-platform.
[12:40:22] <boru> Thank goodness for C99's stdint.
[12:40:23] <chromas> like, if it's okay for the 24-bit variable to be 32-bit, just change all u24s to u32s
[12:40:39] <NCommander> chromas, on Windows, the size of long is 32-bit, while on linux is 64-bit, you need long long to get 64-bit on x86_64.
[12:40:49] <boru> That being said, writing your code to ignore limits.h is a deserved hell to maintain.
[12:41:04] <boru> ILP definitions aside.
[12:41:17] <boru> But stdint fixes those as well, pardon the pun.
[12:41:17] <NCommander> boru, I blame INtel for giving people options as far as ABI is concerned.
[12:41:27] <boru> Pft, intel. Who uses their ISA.
[12:41:28] <chromas> or even better, use u24, then on another machine, just redefinre u24 to be u32 :D
[12:41:34] <NCommander> boru, I've worked with C compilers who's stdlib isn't very std.
[12:41:39] <boru> Me too!
[12:41:55] <NCommander> .oO(ARM RealView, Freescale CodeWarrior)
[12:42:02] <chromas> does that include gcc?
[12:42:05] <NCommander> Palm OS
[12:42:21] <NCommander> chromas, GCC doesn't include a stdlib. If you don't provide your own, you can only use it in freestanding mode.
[12:42:22] <boru> I've also got micros here in front of me with things like 16b minimal addressable word and a 24b address bus, a DSP with 32b word and a 37b address bus etc.
[12:42:31] <NCommander> boru, blackfin?
[12:42:35] <NCommander> Or coldfire?
[12:42:36] <boru> Bespoke stuff.
[12:42:38] <NCommander> Ouch
[12:42:42] <boru> Aye, ouch.
[12:43:12] <NCommander> boru, from what little I know abotu bespoke from word of mouth, "who wants a standard size, we can use them all"
[12:43:36] <NCommander> About the only time you really see a oddball size at all in mainstream programming is old x86 code that assumes old-style x87 behavior
[12:43:40] <boru> Especially when you get shitheads doing crap like `typedef unsigned char u8` where `char` is 16b!
[12:43:41] <chromas> use gmp for all numbers
[12:43:42] <NCommander> EMBRACE THE 80-BIT FLOATS
[12:44:05] <NCommander> chromas, on a microcontrol? hahahah. Oh wait you're serious, let me laugh harder. HAHAHAHAHAHA
[12:44:10] <boru> I've worked with some truly mental targets.
[12:44:14] * chromas uses gmp for bools
[12:44:18] <boru> Gah.
[12:44:32] <boru> Real Men™ use fixed point, anyway.
[12:44:34] <NCommander> boru, my favorite ones are the ones where the standard unit isn't byte but wide
[12:44:47] <NCommander> *cough* WINDOWS COM*/cough*
[12:44:53] <boru> Aye, I've seen that; 17b bytes too.
[12:44:54] * TheMightyBuzzard uses char arrays for bools
[12:45:18] <chromas> signed chars?
[12:45:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> come to think of it, perl uses char arrays for bools...
[12:45:28] <boru> I'm glad to be leaving the semiconductor industry.
[12:45:40] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, perl is not always (or really ever) a good standard of best practice
[12:45:57] <boru> Neither is C.
[12:45:58] <NCommander> The best I can say abotu perl is what introduced unittesting to most programmers, and CPAN tends to blow away everything else.
[12:46:05] <chromas> !blockgrab
[12:46:12] <NCommander> boru, I've done real mode C programming. Pity me.
[12:46:18] <chromas> or multigrab
[12:46:18] * boru chuckles.
[12:46:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, it's one of the most inefficient ways possible to do something at a hardware level but one of the most efficient to code
[12:46:32] <NCommander> boru, the worst bit. x86_16 is not the only platform with near and far pointers :(
[12:46:35] <boru> Most of the C I write is freestanding, anyway.
[12:47:05] <NCommander> boru, I've gotten stupidly good at porting newlib to embedded devices, and using LTO to negate the size penality
[12:47:08] <boru> I don't know how people work with Intel.
[12:47:16] <boru> Aye, same as.
[12:47:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> unit testing is for people who don't have a Bytram
[12:47:26] <boru> Newlib is handy to port.
[12:47:30] <NCommander> boru, it's easy. Work with Itanium, then x86 looks sane in comparsion.
[12:47:37] <boru> Oh, Itanium...
[12:47:52] <chromas> Can protected mode programs really segfault or is that just a genericized term now?
[12:47:57] <NCommander> boru, easy too, though you're really best off rebuilding the vendors GCC once you get a baseport done so you don't get stuck in include hell.
[12:48:12] <NCommander> chromas, yes, they can. Though not on Linux :)
[12:48:18] <boru> Pft, vendors. I never use their tools.
[12:48:35] <NCommander> (it is possible to use segmentmenting in x86_32, not that anything beside OS/2 ever did. Was dropped on x86_64)
[12:48:50] <boru> I know binutils inside out, and have written assemblers, locators and linkers for targets that didn't have any.
[12:48:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> ooooh, nice... i'm gonna have an entire 512KB to store code on that board!
[12:49:06] <chromas> Use java
[12:49:08] <boru> The opulence!
[12:49:28] <NCommander> boru, binutils is ugly internally. I once tried to fix the SGI IRIX target which had issues with assembling IRIX's not-quite-standard ELF files and got lost somewhere in BFD
[12:49:33] <NCommander> My sanity hasn't been seen since.
[12:49:43] <boru> I was about to ask if you'd ever recovered.
[12:50:02] <boru> BFD isn't very well documented.
[12:50:13] <NCommander> s/very well//g
[12:50:13] <upstart> <NCommander> My sanity hasn't been seen since.
[12:50:25] <NCommander> not me you idiot bot
[12:50:41] <chromas> boru: s/very well//
[12:50:41] <upstart> <boru> BFD isn't documented.
[12:50:55] <NCommander> boru, most of the toolchain isn't well documented. I was the sucker that that had to get the Ada frontend going on ARM hardfloat.
[12:51:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, s/.*/bewbs/
[12:51:05] <upstart> <chromas> bewbs
[12:51:10] <boru> Which ISA version?
[12:51:24] <chromas> upstart: s/./bewbs /g
[12:51:24] <NCommander> boru, arm-linux-gnueabihf
[12:51:26] <boru> And what were you working on to use Ada? Aerospace?
[12:51:44] <boru> No, I mean which ARM ISA version? Presumably v{6,7,8}-A?
[12:51:48] <NCommander> boru, there are some components in Ubuntu that are coded in Ada, or have ada bindings that want to be built.
[12:52:00] <boru> Or v{4,5}?
[12:52:00] <NCommander> boru, 7 at the time. I lucked out and left Canonical before we had to do it for 8
[12:52:18] <boru> 8 has some niceties for v8-M and v8-R.
[12:52:23] <NCommander> boru, I actually love ada as a programming language. The lack of many libraries kills it hard.
[12:52:27] <boru> I don't working with application processors, thankfully.
[12:52:36] <boru> Yeah, Ada is interesting; it's been on my list for a while.
[12:53:00] <chromas> Maybe if you could get a few hipsters to use it, it'd take off
[12:53:05] <NCommander> boru, Ravenscar is amazing for microcontrollers. Formal validation done in line in source and able to work with just about anything, including non-liner memory maps, segmented addressing, etc.
[12:53:07] <chromas> node.ada
[12:53:12] <boru> Verilog, assembly language for various ISAs and C are my bread and butter at the moment.
[12:53:18] <boru> Though I'm a Forth fan boy.
[12:53:26] <NCommander> <3 forth
[12:53:31] <boru> NCommander++
[12:53:31] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 117
[12:53:38] <NCommander> I haven't had an opportunity to use it since Apple deep-sixed OF though
[12:53:53] <boru> I'm working on my nth Forth compiler at the moment.
[12:53:54] <NCommander> My most recent project is all userspace and isn't CPU bound so I've been doing it in Python.
[12:54:05] * TheMightyBuzzard has a sneaking suspicion he's going to be writing code for those multiconnect boards in assembly
[12:54:16] <boru> You'll probably get away with C.
[12:54:20] <boru> What processor is on them, again?
[12:54:21] <NCommander> boru, honestly, forth is a mindfuck if you're not used to RPN, but damn if its not easy to debug when it goes wrong.
[12:54:31] <boru> Precisely!
[12:54:39] <NCommander> boru, x86_64 :). It beat ARM for pricing. We're using UUCP as a communication protocol
[12:54:43] * NCommander isn't joking about that
[12:54:47] <boru> When people realise just how great RPN is, they wonder why on Earth they ever used infix notation!
[12:54:59] <NCommander> boru, because C doesn't support RPN?
[12:55:04] <chromas> Does anything use non-R PN?
[12:55:13] <boru> Everything!
[12:55:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> cortex m4
[12:55:14] <NCommander> You mean + 3 2
[12:55:18] <NCommander> :)
[12:55:24] <boru> TMB; you'll get away with C for sure.
[12:55:34] <chromas> Poor Poles had it backward
[12:55:38] <boru> I can write you some CRT startup and a linker script of you like.
[12:55:47] <NCommander> boru, TheMightyBuzzard: ARM boards about the only embedded ones that you can actually do an entire project wihtout a line of assembler if you're not using a MMU/MPU
[12:56:03] <NCommander> usually just need a linker script to drop it in the right place so the IVRs land at 0x0
[12:56:15] <boru> Aye, that's right.
[12:56:26] <boru> SP initialiser at 0x0, then address of the reset vector.
[12:56:34] <NCommander> I don't mind ARM from an ISA, but fuck I hate everything else about it
[12:56:37] <boru> Then the exception vectors, then IRQ vectors.
[12:56:44] * NCommander is still pissed OpenBoot/Firmware failed hard
[12:56:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> pshaw. alls i need is to count pulses, send the daily total to a web address, and zero the count.
[12:56:59] <NCommander> Massive vendor pushback from reverse polish notation. Then they balked at the overhead of UEFI
[12:57:04] <NCommander> so we have servers shipping u-boot
[12:57:09] * NCommander isn't joking :(
[12:57:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> uefi can eat my dick
[12:57:25] <chromas> Such little progress in computers over the last 30 years. Where'd my dragon drop gui in visual basic to program my linux-running internet-of-paperclips?
[12:57:40] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, it sucks less than basic BIOS, or u-boot. Marginally.
[12:58:15] <boru> I've been working on a Forth machine as well, on and off.
[12:58:18] <chromas> is uefi the wayland of firmware?
[12:58:24] <NCommander> chromas, no, UEFI actually works.
[12:58:26] <chromas> or systemd?
[12:58:27] <chromas> /kick
[12:58:59] <chromas> me has efi-hybrid that's just bios with support for larger HDDs
[12:59:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, have you had the fun of dealing with a piece of kit with ia32 uefi yet?
[12:59:12] * chromas goes shopping for some extra slashes
[12:59:14] <NCommander> UEFI actually has some technical advantages that make sense on x86 since it's essentially a 32/64-bit DOS. You could easily write firmware upgade utilities as UEFI native applications and skip the freeDOS port
[12:59:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> took me three days to get it to boot ANYTHING that wasn't already installed
[12:59:19] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I've ported it to new platforms.
[12:59:48] <boru> Oh come on, UEFI is unilaterally a shit sandwich. No single one of those features is useful or provides any great utility.
[13:00:12] <boru> My last machine takes more time to boot the BIOS than it does the OS.
[13:00:17] * TheMightyBuzzard funtamentally does no approve of the basic configuration of the box being stored on a drive
[13:00:18] <chromas> secureboot's pretty good tho
[13:00:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> #smake chromas
[13:00:28] * MrPlow smakes chromas upside the head with teal deer
[13:00:30] <boru> That crapware is the worst thing to happen to desktop PCs in decades.
[13:00:31] <NCommander> boru, no, what you mean to say is that that UEFI doesnt' do anything better.
[13:00:54] <chromas> boru: what about windows 10?
[13:01:11] <boru> Stop trying to troll me. It won't work.
[13:01:28] <NCommander> boru, it's a fair upgrade from stock BIOS. OpenFirmware was still better by a long shot
[13:01:51] <chromas> bios/efi is the internet explorer of firmware. it's just there to let me boot templeos
[13:01:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> boru, never say never. he's quite good.
[13:02:00] * boru chuckles.
[13:02:31] <chromas> I never tried openfirmware. what happened to it Is it the one that died by social justice?
[13:02:41] <boru> That was coreboot, iirc.
[13:02:45] <NCommander> boru, I also have to take this all in context. UEFI is nothing compared to the master clusterfuck that's ACPI.
[13:02:46] <boru> Or some fork of it.
[13:02:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> was it or was it libreboot?
[13:03:12] * chromas wouldn't mind trying it out, as long as it doesn't install a blockbot
[13:03:12] <boru> I haven't had much exposure to that stuff
[13:03:32] <NCommander> boru, take one hit of the ACPI crackpipe, and you're definition of shit will be redefined
[13:03:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, that reminds me... i needa do up a story of this: http://www.phoronix.com
[13:03:57] <upstart> ^ 03Talos II POWER9 Workstation With OpenBMC, PCI-E 4.0 Up For Pre-Ordering - Phoronix
[13:04:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> less than $7k for a desktop machine! woohoo!
[13:04:40] <NCommander> chromas, openfirmware (also known as openboot) was an open standard for booting computers with a forth based environment. It was most common on PowerPC PCI macs, and Solaris SPARC systems (where it still lives on)
[13:05:07] <NCommander> chromas, it's also used on x86 and ARM on some embedded devices. OLPC uses OpenFirmware for instance.
[13:05:37] <chromas> so it's possible to stuff it into my box and maybe it won't catch fire?
[13:05:54] <NCommander> chromas, I'm not aware of a freestanding OF environment. I know coreboot can start it
[13:06:00] <boru> I'm hoping to build a Thunder-X machine soon; dual socket, 48-cores per chip.
[13:06:33] <NCommander> boru, bring that fucker up to the 48-bit address space limit :)
[13:06:45] * chromas wants to fix what's not broken on his system
[13:07:21] <NCommander> chromas, if you want to play with Forth, install any MUD server locally
[13:07:26] <NCommander> They almost all universally use forth
[13:08:03] * NCommander notes Forth never got the cult status lisp did though
[13:08:07] <boru> Or install gforth!
[13:08:17] <NCommander> boru, I tend to forget that exists :(
[13:08:19] <boru> bc(1) is RPN, also.
[13:08:23] <boru> It's not that bad!
[13:08:28] <chromas> lithp
[13:08:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, been doing that on my tablet. it is a flat bitch getting it set up proper like. ia32 uefi but ia64 cpu
[13:08:49] <chromas> start it in 8bit real mode and work your way up
[13:09:01] <NCommander> boru, I'm likely going to have to write a high speed TCP/IP decoder for packet tracing. It's either going to be done in Ada or Forth.
[13:09:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> and NOBODY cept redhat even has an install image that has ia32 uefi to boot from
[13:09:31] <chromas> Do x64_64 cpus still start in real mode and do whatever it was with the keyboard to switch?
[13:09:40] * TheMightyBuzzard ended up having to be a tricky, tricky bastard
[13:09:44] <boru> Pft, get an FPGA and write it in verilog!
[13:09:55] <chromas> TheMightyBuzzard: can you steal from android?
[13:09:59] <NCommander> chromas, they come out of reset in x86_16. UEFI puts it in 32 or 64 mode depending on the revision.
[13:10:20] * chromas considers installing systemd on his android phone
[13:10:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, why would i do that? android never done nothin to me.
[13:10:35] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, just put webOS on that fucker
[13:10:36] <NCommander> :)
[13:10:40] <NCommander> *trollface*
[13:11:13] <chromas> surprising that didn't take off, what with all the webapp masturbation going on
[13:11:14] * TheMightyBuzzard cheated and built a vm to use to build the ia32 uefi
[13:11:17] <NCommander> boru, honestly, I was just recently thinking about the days of old 8 and 16-bit computing, and lamenting that in many ways, MS-DOS and Windows 3.1 were so much more functional than Windows 10
[13:11:30] <boru> Aye, and then some.
[13:11:45] <boru> Windows is just an entertainment system for me these days.
[13:11:48] <NCommander> chromas, because JavaScript has and remains a horrid language for app programming because app programming rarely fits well to an event model.
[13:11:50] <chromas> yeah but windows 10 has cga tiles. DOS didn't have that
[13:11:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[13:11:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[13:11:54] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 437
[13:12:24] <NCommander> chromas, real men poke CGA memory directly. B800:000 for life!
[13:13:33] <NCommander> boru, I learned to program on an Apple II orginally (just basic though), and then my first PC was a 386
[13:14:25] <NCommander> Windows got used for Netscape, Euroda, and AOL. DOS was WP 5.1 love
[13:15:07] * NCommander then went 95, OS/2
[13:15:37] <NCommander> OS/2 was rather fucking awesome TBH. Unless you had to run WIN-OS/2
[13:15:56] <chromas> should port rehash to it
[13:16:16] <NCommander> Apache dropped OS/2 support
[13:16:42] <chromas> ArcaOS or eComStation
[13:17:01] <NCommander> What truly staggers me though is modern webbrowsers, in terms of LoC, are larger than most operating systems
[13:17:56] <chromas> that's 'cause operating systems are just there to boot the web browsers, which are operating systemd now
[13:18:01] <boru> Cut my teeth on the 6809.
[13:18:10] <chromas> s/d/s/
[13:18:11] <upstart> <chromas> that's 'cause operating systems are just there to boot the web browsers, which are operating systems now
[13:18:17] <NCommander> boru, first chip I learned decently was PowerPC
[13:18:30] <NCommander> boru, also known as "only RISC when compared to x86"
[13:18:37] <boru> Quite.
[13:19:04] * NCommander inserts the usual lament for Alpha
[13:19:10] <boru> I've been all over the map ISA-wise; 68XX, 68k, Sparce, MIPS, ARM, Alpha...
[13:19:29] <boru> I lament for sparc.
[13:19:43] <boru> The last one I touched was a v8/9 based ARC32 and LEON.
[13:19:44] <NCommander> boru, sparc is kinda screwy though.
[13:19:50] <boru> Rad-hardened.
[13:20:07] <NCommander> Register windows are "fun"
[13:20:08] <boru> Well, I think they had a bunch of space left over on their chips and just went to town.
[13:20:22] <boru> I think they're elegant in some respects.
[13:20:29] <boru> I've seen far worse, believe me.
[13:20:42] <NCommander> I've worked with x86 16/32/64, ARM, AArch64, PowerPC, MIPS, and Itanium professionally
[13:20:58] <NCommander> Hobbyist, 6502 is in there, and some SuperH
[13:21:17] <NCommander> oh, and 680x0
[13:21:18] <NCommander> (duh)
[13:21:59] <boru> Ah yeah, 6502 and superh in there for me, also, but not a whole lot.
[13:22:08] <boru> Never played with the power arch.
[13:22:16] <boru> ppc, even.
[13:22:29] <boru> MIPS is pretty great.
[13:22:46] <boru> These days, it's almost exclusively ARM though.
[13:22:51] <boru> For me, that is.
[13:22:56] <chromas> New poll: Favorite architecture to work with?
[13:23:33] <NCommander> boru, I had a very ugly bug a few years ago with dealing with a processor that went belly up dealing with Thumb-2 code when VFP. Ugh. That required looking at raw opcodes, and decoding the 16-bit ones from the 32-bit ones
[13:23:38] <boru> Good poll idea.
[13:24:04] <boru> I bet the majority will be intel, though.
[13:24:07] <NCommander> boru, that led me to causing a SIGBUS at ARM senior management because I found a flaw in the ISA definition
[13:24:21] <boru> Hmm.
[13:24:46] <NCommander> boru, they forgot to state that you're supposed to flush flags in silicon on the VFP in Thumb2 mode in a context switch.
[13:24:50] <boru> I never do anything which requires VFP, thankfully.
[13:25:04] <NCommander> That bug that interesting consquencies :)
[13:25:11] <boru> That's interesting.
[13:25:21] <NCommander> It would cause one app to get another apps VFP flags
[13:25:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> aight, time for vidya for me. roomie's ordering sample hats to pick some out to order and i had him throw a few samples for us in as well on his company's dime on the grounds of he very well may use the same hat with their logo.
[13:25:29] <NCommander> That was utter madness to isolate
[13:25:36] <NCommander> Never watched a bug report esclate that fast.
[13:25:38] <boru> I thought there'd be restrictions on branching to VFP code from thumb2.
[13:25:49] <NCommander> boru, there may be now, but this is when the chipset first came out.
[13:25:58] <boru> TMB; meat themed hats?
[13:26:03] <boru> Ah, right.
[13:26:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> site theme colors for now.
[13:26:39] <chromas> redhats?
[13:26:39] <NCommander> boru, the bug essentially manifested as the processor running the wrong way through an if branch.
[13:26:56] <NCommander> boru, it was isolated via "gdb /usr/sbin/gdb ~/test-prog"
[13:27:03] <NCommander> (you're having a sad when you have to gdb gdb
[13:27:09] * boru chuckles.
[13:27:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, one of em, yeah. black as well for the VT themes and black icicle
[13:27:22] <boru> Try IDA on IDA some time.
[13:27:33] <NCommander> boru, doesn't it prevent that from working?
[13:28:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> i don't think we'll do hats for pwnies or vomit unless specifically requested
[13:28:12] <NCommander> boru, I don't own a copy of IDA. I only use the freeware one
[13:28:15] <boru> Live debugging, yeah, it has plenty of antidebugging.
[13:28:36] <boru> I've got a licenced 6.9 for Linux, which I run on FreeBSD via LBC layer.,
[13:28:37] <NCommander> boru, "anti-debugging" :)
[13:28:52] <boru> I didn't renew my licence last year.
[13:28:56] <NCommander> boru, surprised that works. LBC was kinda iffy with ptrace/attach for a LONG time
[13:29:00] <boru> I can't justify the cost these days.
[13:29:09] <boru> Aye, it's bulletproof ime these days.
[13:29:32] <NCommander> boru, I just learned to use gdb to debug just about anything and line it up to IDA dumps on Windows.
[13:29:34] <boru> Well, most of the stuff I do is via openocd
[13:29:50] <boru> Or IDA -> gdb -> openocd -> jtag -> some target, to be more precise.
[13:29:52] <NCommander> boru, JTAG was a luxury item on far too many boards.
[13:29:58] <boru> Heh, quite.
[13:30:04] <boru> You should see what I have to deal with currently.
[13:30:11] <NCommander> boru, we had one board that had a monitor ROM that just started a YMODEM connection to get u-boot
[13:30:17] <boru> Bespoke bus architecture on a multi-core die.
[13:30:36] <boru> There are three types of bespoke processors and some 8051s, all on the same package.
[13:30:58] <boru> Nice.
[13:31:01] <NCommander> boru, god, this reminds me of RD-RAM
[13:31:04] <NCommander> For some horrid reason
[13:31:09] <boru> Real men YMODEM or TFTP their OS into RAM and boot from there.
[13:31:21] <boru> Oh, don't get me started.
[13:31:25] <boru> We'll be here all day.
[13:31:31] <NCommander> boru, this board was so flakely, I blew someones mine when I showed it on the internet
[13:31:37] <NCommander> They didn't realize I just used slattach :)
[13:31:45] <NCommander> They thought I fixed the ethernet hardware
[13:31:49] * boru chuckles.
[13:32:26] <NCommander> boru, if you're sufficently demented, it IS possible to actually get the linux kernel to setup a SLIP connection, then mount NFS over it.
[13:33:22] <NCommander> I used that to setup a ramdisk, copy over the root filesystem, and then pivot_root
[13:33:38] <NCommander> then remount NFS in the new root, all over SLIP
[13:35:55] * NCommander suspects RS-232 will never die
[13:35:56] <NCommander> ever
[13:39:51] <boru> No, indeed.
[13:57:03] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Origins of MRSA - http://sylnt.us
[14:06:03] <chromas> "Haruo Nakajima, actor who played original Godzilla, dies at age 88"
[15:25:43] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Intel's Skylake-X Line-up Finalized: 18-Core i9-7980XE Poised to Sell Well? - http://sylnt.us - core-wars
[15:56:37] -!- arcz [arcz!~yaaic@2601:c2:8300:ptpr:yjxj:loql:lzwm:vpzn] has joined #Soylent
[15:57:50] <arcz> https://www.bloomberg.com
[15:57:55] <upstart> ^ 03Google Fires Author of Divisive Memo on Gender Differences - Bloomberg
[15:58:06] <arcz> I'm boycotting Google.
[15:58:15] <chromas> Let's all switch to Bing!
[15:58:19] <boru> Only now?
[15:58:24] <arcz> Can we get soylent email addresses?
[15:58:45] <boru> Check out protonmail for mail, ddg or ixquick for a search engine, etc.
[15:58:46] <chromas> Wouldn't it be better to use google's services but with adblock?
[15:59:09] <boru> You trust them with _any_ of your data?
[15:59:12] <boru> Let alone tracking etc.
[15:59:19] <arcz> I mean. Google has been bad, but up until now it's been confined to market antitrust and stuff.
[15:59:38] <chromas> Well if diversity fires are what triggered the boycott, instead of data mining
[15:59:39] <arcz> This is the first time I've been made aware of political discrimination by Google.
[15:59:54] <chromas> heh
[15:59:59] <arcz> That's why I'm boycotting.
[16:00:23] <arcz> Data mining is minor. This is major. Imo.
[16:00:52] <arcz> It's political manipulation by a big company.
[16:02:30] <arcz> I want to set up my own email server ideally. Otherwise I will look for a non-Google email address.
[16:02:42] <chromas> https://2static.fjcdn.com
[16:03:14] <chromas> We knew it was coming
[16:04:22] * clorox|2 pukes a little
[16:04:54] <chromas> There's always HoTMaiL :D
[16:05:28] <boru> I use protonmail for non-important free webmail.
[16:05:35] <boru> But yeah, I run my own mail server as well.
[16:05:42] <chromas> Is that the privacy-oriented one?
[16:05:50] <boru> Sort of.
[16:06:02] <boru> They say that's the case, but they've forked over data to the authorities.
[16:06:19] <boru> And I question their security.
[16:06:37] <chromas> See, that's why I used gmail. When they fork over data, I don't hear about it. Bliss
[16:07:26] <boru> Heh.
[16:07:41] <arcz> I'd rather use bing than gmail at this point.
[16:07:53] <chromas> Do you have to do anything special to get around the blocklists?
[16:08:06] <boru> Which blocklists?
[16:08:15] <chromas> for email
[16:08:28] <boru> I'm not sure what you mean.
[16:08:38] <boru> What blocklists are you talking about?
[16:08:58] <chromas> From what I've read, running your own server can be a pain if you interact with google/microsoft customers because they use blocklists for spam control
[16:09:20] <boru> Ah, right. NFI, haven't had any issues.
[16:09:59] * chromas sets up dovecot on his linux toaster
[16:10:34] <chromas> I don't know what a dovecot is beyond email server, but my spellchecker apparently knows
[16:11:30] <chromas> Looks like it's a raised birdhouse. Hmm.
[16:15:10] -!- arcz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[16:51:50] <Bytram> boru: wrt UID 1337: 1337 2014-02-18 16:42:46 "drcm"
[16:52:43] <chromas> dr cm > dr who
[17:07:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Hubble Observes New Evidence of an Exoplanet (Hot Jupiter) Stratosphere - http://sylnt.us - up-in-the-air-about-this-one
[17:13:47] <Bytram> well you lot were a chatty bunch while I was sleeping in this morning... had a lot of fun reading scrollback and only wish I could have participated in the chat!
[17:16:14] <chromas> Maybe NCommander will pop in and then you guys can compare toolchains
[17:16:58] <Bytram> btw, for assembler... started with PDP-8 (had to hand toggle a 14(?) step program into the machine's front panel to reboot), then moved on to PDP-11, 6502, IBM 360/370 and about then figured enough was enough. If I ever need to deal with asm after that, I'd deal with it then... HLL FTW
[17:18:41] <chromas> Were there auto-keyers?
[17:19:17] <chromas> Like, arrange a few bytes on a handheld mechanodevice, then put it next to the switches and it toggles them like a music box
[17:20:01] <chromas> I guess that'd just be punchcards
[17:24:32] <Bytram> not quite... it was typed up on a piece of paper, long since yellowed, and taped to the front panel next to where one would toggle the program in.
[17:39:21] <Bytram> break time
[18:23:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, https://www.cnbc.com could add some to the google engineer being fired story.
[18:24:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> written by a business employment lawyer
[18:25:53] * TheMightyBuzzard wanders off for a nap
[18:28:19] <mechanicjay> The setup on that whole situation is perfect. If he gets fired, it kinda proves his point.
[18:30:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> he already was
[18:31:26] <mechanicjay> That's right, please feel free to re-read my statement with the proper tenses and shit.
[18:31:49] * TheMightyBuzzard chuckles
[18:32:28] <chromas> "please have felt free to have re-read my statement with the proper tenses and shat."
[18:33:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh hey, while you're handy could you un-mail-enable SirFinkus? he decided he can't cope with the breakneck work pace around here. =P
[18:34:07] <mechanicjay> LOL, yeah I saw that. I'll get to that today.
[18:34:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> cheers
[18:35:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm still trying to get that tmb bastard to remove his ssh keys as well but he's a lazy fucker
[18:35:40] * TheMightyBuzzard really does head out for a nap now
[18:36:08] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Netflix Acquires Comic Book Publisher Millarworld - http://sylnt.us - picture-this!
[18:46:45] <FatPhil> nw. https://www.rarbg.to RIP Chantek :(
[18:46:47] <upstart> ^ 03My Wild Affair 2of4 The Ape Who Went to College x264 HDTV [MVGroup org] Torrent download
[18:48:33] <FatPhil> http://www.bbc.co.uk
[18:48:35] <upstart> ^ 03Chantek, the orangutan who used sign language, dies at 39 - BBC News
[18:52:36] -!- Exaeta [Exaeta!~Exaeta@2601:c2:8300:xurv:itgg:xthj:wyxi:psis] has joined #Soylent
[18:52:54] <Exaeta> Why is there no story about Google firing employees for political viewpoints?
[18:52:56] <Exaeta> This is major news
[18:53:28] <AndyTheAbsurd> because no one has submitted it, probably.
[18:53:57] <Exaeta> It's on the green site... how do I submit it?
[18:54:11] <AndyTheAbsurd> go here: https://soylentnews.org
[18:54:12] <upstart> ^ 03SoylentNews Submissions
[18:54:46] <AndyTheAbsurd> oh...looks like there actually *is* a pending story about it.
[18:55:11] <AndyTheAbsurd> looks like it's next up in the queue, too.
[18:55:33] <lemon> google has completely flipped it's shit in the past couple years
[18:56:39] <lemon> I guess that's what happens when a company makes lots of money without having to do anything
[18:59:43] <AndyTheAbsurd> #submit http://www.reuters.com
[18:59:44] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[19:00:09] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[19:26:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Almost 200 ISPs Imposing Data Limits in the US - http://sylnt.us - the-new-normal
[20:26:57] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Google Fires Author of Divisive Memo on Gender Differences - http://sylnt.us - conversation-starter
[20:40:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> Exaeta, AndyTheAbsurd: it was already queued up
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[21:59:23] <pinchy> aight boru time to spill the beans
[22:09:48] <pinchy> guess im gonan have to add this to my znc list
[22:15:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Opinion: Can We Wean Elon Musk Off Government Support Already? - http://sylnt.us - suck-'em-dry
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[23:57:09] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - First Genetically Engineered Salmon Sold - http://sylnt.us - scaling-up