#Soylent | Logs for 2017-03-03
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[00:06:15] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - SoftBank's $80-100 Billion "Vision Fund" Takes Shape - http://sylnt.us - I-for-one-welcome...
[00:12:13] <paulej72> Hello Bender
[00:12:31] <paulej72> looks like a netsplit
[00:15:24] <Deucalion> paulej72, netsplit?
[00:15:34] -!- stderr [stderr!~pohol@GetOffMyLawn/stderr] has joined #Soylent
[00:15:50] <Deucalion> Not sure that could happen given both ircd and services are on same box
[00:16:10] <paulej72> all kinks of disconeects nad rereconnect. not a real netsplit
[00:17:07] <Deucalion> My ZNC was discon from the ircd for about 30 minutes about 2 hours ago. Mebbe more DDOSage on linode or my ZNC hoster
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[01:31:05] <paulej72> moop
[01:31:09] <paulej72> meep
[01:31:14] <paulej72> morp
[01:35:52] <Deucalion> feeling OK paulej72 ?
[01:36:04] <paulej72> sure
[01:37:04] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Crystals Win in the Anthropocene: 208 Manmade Minerals Identified - http://sylnt.us - off-to-a-rocky-start
[01:38:05] <Deucalion> OK - wasn't sure with those blikenlights and random noises :)
[01:38:52] <paulej72> XD
[01:51:06] <Deucalion> Least I now know what a correctly functioning paulej72 should look n sound like. /me wonders what an error state paulej72 exhibits..... probably a simultaneous cataclysmic physical implosion of all systems under their stewardship. As if millions of servers suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. :/ Much like accidentally hitting the Halon release button.... in some circumstances silence is not golden.... once the deafenin
[01:51:06] <Deucalion> g roar has passed a silent data suite is spooky.. where be the fans!!!! :D
[01:52:28] * Deucalion aways to the land of nod where everything is right with the world :)
[01:52:57] <paulej72> Our machine room at Princeton is tremendously loud. Our one HPC system sounds like jet engines from the combind sound from the fans
[01:53:37] <paulej72> Hearing protection is a necessity
[01:54:29] <paulej72> that cluster has 30KW of cooling at the rear doors and still blows hot air
[01:56:25] <chromas> Has anyone ever done liquid-cooled rack servers?
[01:57:17] <chromas> With little tubes you can pop off when you need to pull one
[01:57:39] <charon> grab a funnel and some mountain dew to refill it?
[01:58:10] <paulej72> probably someone. I know there are oil sbmerged systems for cooling
[01:58:48] <paulej72> Our next cluster may need 480 to the racks for power.
[02:00:04] <paulej72> we actually had to build # 4 of 6 UPSs with the capiablity for 480v power since the first 3 were only set up to do 208V
[02:01:32] <charon> that's a ridiculous amount of power
[02:03:19] <paulej72> our data center is rather new and is not fully built out. We actually had to add load from a couple of other buildings to make the generators more happy
[02:03:50] <paulej72> we have a diesel and NG trubine.
[02:04:21] <paulej72> we can generate off of NG when the price is cheaper than buying electricity
[02:04:53] <charon> doesn't that take a while to spin up?
[02:05:16] <paulej72> During the summer our grid provider sometimes has us generate power to decrease load, they give a discount on NG when they ask for this
[02:05:42] <paulej72> that is why we have UPSs between the generators and the comps
[02:06:20] <chromas> Do you dump the server heat into the turbine water to keep it warm while on standby?
[02:08:01] <paulej72> not a steam turbine think jet engine copuled to a generator
[02:08:23] <chromas> neat
[02:08:39] * charon imagines the 60s batmobile
[02:11:11] <Deucalion> I get sympathy pangs when I pull a failed hot swap fan out of an older HP server.... all the remaining ones ramp up to 100% out of respect for their failed brethren... until you slot the new one in and peace is restored as they all get to know one another again. :D In the newer HP servers I have to deal with now, none of the internal fans are hot swap, no idea if that is an option choice or just we're all expected to have clustered shitz so
[02:11:11] <Deucalion> shutting down a server is no big deal ~shrug~
[02:11:17] <paulej72> we can take the waste heat from the gennies and use that to make cooling water, but we don't have enough load to trun that on
[02:12:12] <Deucalion> How long have you been rocking around Princeton now paulej72 ?
[02:13:11] <paulej72> my dells have hot swap fans, but I can't open them without pulling the power. I don;t need that kind of uptime on my systems
[02:13:27] <paulej72> been here sinc 95
[02:13:47] <Deucalion> What's the point in hot swap fans inside if you can't pop the lid without powering down? :/
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[02:14:59] <paulej72> that is the way they come, but I don;t want to do the cable manament in such a way to bue able to slide the server out and open it up while running
[02:16:54] <Deucalion> It does get kinda messy having enough slack on the kettle leads to allow the servers to be slid out of the rack to be able to pop the lid. S'OK if you can access the backside of the rack and can velcro up the power leads.... works in hot<>cold aisle setups... not so much with back to back racks.
[02:17:35] * Deucalion envies paulej72's job security :)
[02:18:35] <paulej72> Dell has a cable managment arm that I could get for the racks, but when folded they block the back of the servers trapping that damn heat
[02:19:10] <Deucalion> wait - I was going to bed.... too much coffee today methinks..... not my fault every job I went to was a hospitality / catering outlet and they all ~forced~ free coffee on me :D
[02:19:32] <chromas> They need to bring back curly cords, like phones and keyboards used to have
[02:19:40] <paulej72> they do make decaf Deucalion
[02:20:13] <charon> curly cords are the devil
[02:20:13] <paulej72> The back of my racks are so hot, any curl would relax in few hours
[02:20:42] <Deucalion> I thought it was damp that caused curls to relax... or is that permed hair?
[02:21:16] <charon> #define jheri-curl
[02:21:22] <paulej72> we have water cooled back doors. the computer fans push the hot air out the back radiator. The heat bulids up in the space between
[02:21:47] <paulej72> exec is dead right now
[02:21:54] <Deucalion> paulej72, decaf coffee is as pointless as alcohol free beer... wtf would be the point?
[02:22:06] <charon> i thought mrplow did define too
[02:22:34] <paulej72> not sure
[02:22:45] <Deucalion> ~define jheri-curl
[02:22:46] <charon> apparently not, since # is its token
[02:23:46] <charon> exec disconnected last night and cmn is on vacation so we're stuck without him
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[02:24:56] <Deucalion> paulej72, do the water cooled back doors have any fannage either pulling or pushing the hot air through them? Or is it magically supposed to come out the back of the servers and through the rear doors rather than ascending skywards in the intervening space as could be logically predicted?
[02:25:27] <paulej72> we tried that, but it did more harm than good.
[02:26:10] <paulej72> the rest of the rack is sealed to keep the air going through the rear doors
[02:26:34] <paulej72> lots of gorilla tape and packing foam
[02:27:45] <paulej72> we do have a racks that are not water cooled but have exhaust chimneys but they are not meant for the high density stuff
[02:27:59] <Deucalion> The idea being the server fans create positive pressure in the space between back of servers and rads - thus hot air is forced through the back doors only? Sounds feasible.... when first installed and perfectly sealed :)
[02:29:23] <paulej72> Some of this stuff took a few years to iron out the bugs
[02:29:29] <Deucalion> Sounds like a nightmare trying to keep the racks sealed and still have cable runs into them for power and data... or does that all come in at the bottom?
[02:30:19] <paulej72> they don;t need to be perfectly sealed, but we want most of the hot air going throuh the doors as they provide 20KW of cooling
[02:30:26] <paulej72> per doo
[02:30:27] <paulej72> r
[02:31:32] <paulej72> the room air handling system was not sixed to provide cooling for the water cooled racks, but it can handle the leaks
[02:32:29] <Deucalion> Not if the hot air is not going through them and instead just devilishly gathering in the intervening space :D Would be interesting to analyse the resistance to flow through the back doors to work out exactly how much positive pressure is required to actually push a useful amount of air out the back. Glad I don;t have to deal with that for a crust.
[02:32:51] <paulej72> for most of the racks we have the doors set a full flow and they actuall cool the are more than the cool side due to the rack load being less than 20KW
[02:33:28] <paulej72> Most of the new server are designed for this kind of service.
[02:33:55] <paulej72> that is why they mount jet engines instead of fans inside the cases.
[02:34:19] <paulej72> or at least that is how they sound when they spool up
[02:35:31] <paulej72> the fun part is devices that don't pull air front to back. they need special duct work to allow them to stay cool
[02:36:11] * Deucalion still maintains HP G3 series.... what is this "new" you speak of? :D But yah.. the newer series servers even internally are very different in their fan configuration with wall to wall banks of fans.... and yep when first powered up with all of them going 100% it's like a fighter jet on afterburn.....
[02:36:31] <paulej72> OK I need to jump on the exercise bike for a bit. Not sure If Ill check in before bed
[02:36:49] * Deucalion heads to bed again again :) Take care
[02:37:08] <paulej72> same to you Deucalion
[03:04:56] <Bytram> !uid
[03:04:56] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 6509, owned by Archrage
[03:05:14] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Comet's Encounter With the Sun Increases Semiheavy Water Production - http://sylnt.us - but-did-they-weigh-it?
[03:05:18] <Bytram> oh goody... someone new!
[03:06:35] <charon> hiyo Bytram
[03:06:44] <Bytram> charon: g'day
[03:06:49] <Bytram> wazzup?
[03:07:57] <charon> not much. feeling glum so i am distracting myself by pushing stories
[03:08:32] <Runaway1956> #submit http://www.hoover.org
[03:08:33] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[03:08:58] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[03:20:55] <Runaway1956> Think I'm going to file a patent for a device with which to make marks on paper - a stick of graphite or lead, wrapped in slivers of wood so that it can be held eaisly
[03:21:05] <Runaway1956> I'll call it a "pencil"
[03:21:34] <Runaway1956> If IBM can do it, maybe I can too. Then I'll start mailing licensing offers to all the major companies.
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[03:23:18] <charon> there's a classic sci-fi story. maybe it's by Ben Bova? about a guy who successfully patents the wheel
[03:23:57] <Bytram> I have not read it yet, but maybe someday I'll get around to it. ;)
[03:25:04] <charon> it's kind of a gotcha story. it doesn't say what the "invention" is during the story, except at the very end.
[03:25:19] <Bytram> nodnod
[03:48:34] <Bytram> charon++
[03:48:34] <Bender> karma - charon: 7
[04:36:27] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - EV Battery Breakthrough - http://sylnt.us - shocking-news
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[06:06:37] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - U.S. Launches New Surveillance Satellite(s) - http://sylnt.us - victoriam-per-intelligentiam?
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[07:36:49] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Two Missions to the Sun Will Launch in 2018 - http://sylnt.us - sunny-side-up
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[09:08:01] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Elephants Don't Get Much Sleep - http://sylnt.us - do-they-dream-of-electric-peanuts?
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[10:36:14] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - AMD Ryzen Launch News - http://sylnt.us - the-hype-is-real
[11:27:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[11:27:34] <Bender> karma - coffee: 3247
[11:28:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> and it's camping day. roughly 11 hours till myself, the roomie, and his progeny take off for the great outdoors to eat hobo dinner and sleep uncomfortably.
[11:30:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> tomorrow though is fishing day. we shall find ourselves a handy body of water in the morning and attempt to catch ourselves some dinner.
[11:31:37] * chromas sets up a tmb bot to fill in
[11:33:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> should be easy. just needs to say coffee++ around 11:30 UTC, smoke break\nnicotine++ around 12:00 UTC, and gone fishing a random number between zero and sixty minutes after
[11:34:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh and ~blame any time someone complains about something
[11:34:40] <chromas> It also pokes at the rehash source and does random PRs
[11:40:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> not this weekend. i spose i could have MrPlow randomly rewrite bits of his code though.
[11:52:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> yays! 4.10 kernel for Calculate! moar amdgpu goodness for me!
[11:53:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[11:53:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[11:53:35] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 324
[12:06:21] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - WHO Publishes List of Bacteria for Which New Antibiotics Are Urgently Needed - http://sylnt.us - try-not-to-get-sick
[12:07:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> antibiotics are for pussies. take some robotussin and suck it up.
[12:14:05] <FatPhil> TheMightyBuzzard++
[12:14:05] <Bender> karma - themightybuzzard: 291
[12:14:34] <FatPhil> great site changes recently TMB - thanks!
[12:16:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, wish it had been a bit less buggy but oh well. at least the site didn't choke on the 100+ commented update stories.
[12:22:35] <FatPhil> was that the perl or the database structure that was the weak point?
[12:23:40] <FatPhil> I know some websites have utterly attrocious DB designs, and hand-roll what ought to be trivial joins. Yay - 100-query ping-pong!
[12:26:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, both really
[12:26:15] <FatPhil> ooooh :(
[12:26:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> we had parental data for each comment but not anything like a thread id. we also store a count of children now too so we don't have to calculate it.
[12:26:56] <FatPhil> One of the problems is that sometimes making a trivial DB structure change requires huge code rewrites because things aren't abstract enough.
[12:27:16] <FatPhil> AAAAAAAGGGGHHHH!!!!! you mentioned thread ids!
[12:27:23] <FatPhil> >TRIGGERED<
[12:27:28] * TheMightyBuzzard chuckles
[12:27:48] <FatPhil> $DAYJOB
[12:27:59] <FatPhil> shit, maybe I should get back to work...
[12:28:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> given a thread id we can pull only the comments for that thread. given a count on the original parent, we know how many we pulled. those together let us pull only as many comments as the user wants, or over to keep from breaking threads.
[12:28:45] <FatPhil> effectively the threadid can be the commentid of the parent-most comment?
[12:29:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> it is. the opid field.
[12:29:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> top level comments being opid==0
[12:30:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> for original parent
[12:30:20] <FatPhil> Relational DBs and trees don't work particularly well together, unfortunately.
[12:30:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> they can, you just gotta plan ahead
[12:31:14] <FatPhil> Unfortunately, when people realised that, they decided that nosql was better than a RDBMS, which is a fallacy.
[12:31:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> going towards the base of the tree is easy, going outwards is harder
[12:31:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod
[12:31:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> it can be in certain situations. ours is not such a situation.
[12:32:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> not remotely
[12:32:07] <FatPhil> yeah, hence threadids being the "gimme all, I'll sort them later" one-query win.
[12:32:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup
[12:32:44] <FatPhil> $DAYJOB = email, for reference.
[12:33:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> which isn't terribly difficult for our uses. we can do a hundred comments, including rendering the html, in like 5s.
[12:33:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> scuse me, 250 comments
[12:33:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> 100 is faster
[12:34:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> email... yeurg
[12:34:42] <chromas> Use jarvis crypt to load the comments. that way you save on server load ;)
[12:34:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> there's still room for improvement for us but not enough to warrant breaking anything.
[12:35:13] <FatPhil> we're not doing badly at managing email... http://openemailsurvey.org
[12:35:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, screw that. ima just rewrite those subs in rust n compile them.
[12:35:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> actually, that ain't a bad idea.
[12:35:37] <chromas> do it. rust > perl
[12:36:04] <FatPhil> I don't thikn any company's ever claimed they were disappointed by >70% market share.
[12:36:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, just do it as rust and compile it to an .so then load the so with perl.
[12:36:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, cept microsoft
[12:38:12] <FatPhil> We have a sequence of pie-charts on the office wall, we call it "the Dovecot pacman" :-)
[12:38:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya know, the more i think about it the more i think rust could do formerly-template rendering much faster than perl. without introducing all the worries that using C would cause.
[12:40:06] <FatPhil> coffee++
[12:40:06] <Bender> karma - coffee: 3248
[12:40:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[12:40:16] <Bender> karma - coffee: 3249
[12:40:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[12:40:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[12:40:19] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 325
[12:49:55] <FatPhil> I don't know why template expansion should be slow if done sensibly. Alas, doing it sensibly requires precomputation of static s/// replacements, and depth-first dependency ordering. Perl's pretty good at the actual s/// bits.
[13:03:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, not if you gotta do dozens per comment with plenty of ifs thrown in.
[13:05:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> in any case, string concatenation is much, much more efficient, even in perl.
[13:06:28] <FatPhil> if done correctly, at worst an if is an s///e, but at best is just a hash lookup.
[13:08:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> well the ifs gotta happen regardless but our templates included pseudo-perl that had to be interpreted to real perl and then exec'd
[13:09:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> so several levels of s/// going on
[13:09:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> back in a moment. time to boot a new kernel
[13:13:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> yays! 4.10 goodness!
[13:14:09] <clorox|2> ksplice?
[13:15:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> to get a new kernel vid driver runnin? not really doable.
[13:15:33] <clorox|2> linux--
[13:15:33] <Bender> karma - linux: 9
[13:16:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, i shouldn't have to reboot again for months n months now if i don't wanna.
[13:17:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> still beats amd cards on winders. i always gotta reboot at least twice to get them installed and running right.
[13:18:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> generally three times is the best number
[13:21:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit http://mashable.com
[13:21:26] <MrPlow> Unable to find a summary for that page
[13:21:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> blerg
[13:21:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit http://www.hardocp.com
[13:21:42] <MrPlow> Unable to find a summary for that page
[13:21:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~submit http://www.hardocp.com
[13:21:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> 404
[13:22:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit http://www.gamespot.com What's his point again?
[13:23:00] <MrPlow> Unable to find a title for that page
[13:23:04] * TheMightyBuzzard sighs
[13:28:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit http://www.sciencemag.org
[13:28:41] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[13:29:07] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[13:29:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit https://arstechnica.co.uk
[13:29:59] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[13:30:25] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[13:36:34] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Let It Glow: OIST Researchers Design New Photoluminescent Compounds - http://sylnt.us - let-it-glow
[13:37:43] <FatPhil> a larger proportion of the spam reaching my inbox is DKIM signed than the proportion of legit mail that's so signed. :/
[13:38:18] * TheMightyBuzzard chuckles
[13:39:06] <FatPhil> ooops, just heard a crash in the bathroom - time to rescue my g/f from the laundry drying rack...
[13:39:08] * TheMightyBuzzard debates writing up a sub for the systemd 233 release
[13:39:43] <FatPhil> I need to write a systemd patchset in the next 29 days, IYKWIM...
[13:42:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh that's easy. echo "" >Makefile
[13:47:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[13:47:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[13:47:02] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 326
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[14:58:18] <Subsentient> TheMightyBuzzard: greetings
[15:07:52] <FatPhil> Hmmm, apparently it's 5 o'clock somewhere!
[15:08:18] <FatPhil> Time to forget all the stresses of the week and get all QWOPpy, methinks.
[15:09:28] <FatPhil> did 60% of the work I was intending to do today, that's enough isn't it?
[15:17:55] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Is Anything Tough Enough to Survive On Mars? - http://sylnt.us - besides-the-rovers
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[16:47:04] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - China: Solar Installations Up 82 Percent in 2016; Coal Usage Down Again - http://sylnt.us - renewables-rock
[17:15:23] <mechanicjay> FatPhil: That reminds, me I forgot the Beer I was going to bring in today for a 5pm wassail.
[17:41:23] <mechanicjay> I'm not sure what this is from, it's kinda making my day right now: https://i.kinja-img.com
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[18:15:15] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Stupid Patent of the Month: IBM Patents Out-of-Office Email - http://sylnt.us - trivial-and-obvious
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[19:21:08] -!- nick [nick!~nick@Soylent/Staff/Editor/n1] has joined #Soylent
[19:21:08] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v nick] by Aphrodite
[20:06:43] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Gas Mileage Only Up a Mile Per Gallon Since Early '90s - http://sylnt.us - baby-steps
[21:26:37] -!- dyingtolive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[21:37:54] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - NASA Released a Ton of Software for Free - http://sylnt.us - superb-solar-system-style-software
[23:04:52] -!- pinchy [pinchy!~krimskree@axg-01-89-53-201.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #Soylent
[23:04:57] <pinchy> http://buttpost.org
[23:06:02] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Engineers Measure Big Ben’s Bong - http://sylnt.us - not-that-kind-of-bong
[23:14:12] -!- charon_ [charon_!~0c0959f3@Soylent/Staff/Editor/charon] has joined #Soylent
[23:14:12] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v charon_] by Aphrodite
[23:19:52] * Deucalion pokes charon_ in the eye with a sharpened femur then runs off giggling maniacally
[23:21:41] <charon_> owwww, my eye
[23:21:47] <charon_> you big meanie
[23:21:56] -!- zipppy has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:22:09] <charon_> how can i steer my boat without binocular vision?
[23:22:30] <Deucalion> satnav
[23:26:19] <charon_> hear me O muse, as i sing of the might global positioning sattelites
[23:26:51] * Deucalion settles down by the fire and listens attentively to the strangely pale robed one
[23:29:27] <charon_> huh, i wasn't even trying, but that was nearly dactyllic