#Soylent | Logs for 2016-10-25
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[00:53:29] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[01:17:03] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Exploding Note 7 is No Surprise; Leaked Samsung Doc Highlights Toxic Internal Culture - http://sylnt.us - capitalism-rocks!
[01:30:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit https://www.bloomberg.com Yup, they're really pining for the fjords now.
[01:30:13] <exec> └─ 13Twitter Planning Hundreds More Job Cuts as Soon as This Week - Bloomberg
[01:30:13] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[01:30:38] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[01:46:26] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: g'day!
[01:46:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~gday Bytram
[01:46:40] * exec defiantly integrates an ntfs volume of hot gas with Bytram
[01:46:52] <Bytram> oh fart!
[01:47:00] <Bytram> ~gday TheMightyBuzzard
[01:47:01] * exec brazenly pukes an overflowing chest of active directory on TheMightyBuzzard
[01:47:24] <Bytram> how's things? been fishin lately?
[01:47:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> thinkin
[01:47:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> i think if john wayne were alive today he'd vote Johnson
[01:47:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> but he's not, so he'll be voting clinton
[01:48:24] <Bytram> that is an, umm, intersting thought process
[01:48:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's a joke, boy, i say a joke
[01:49:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> </foghornleghorn>
[01:49:25] * Bytram watched it pass right over his head
[01:50:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> pondering some fishing tomorrow
[01:50:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> sposed to be the last clear day for a bit
[01:50:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt grandpa voted democrat
[01:50:28] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com
[01:50:28] <Bytram> MelBlanc++
[01:50:28] <Bender> karma - melblanc: 1
[01:50:29] <Bytram> #weather TheMightyBuzzard
[01:50:30] <MrPlow> Today: Mainly clear. Lows overnight in the mid 40s. Tomorrow: Sunshine. High 78F. Winds light and variable.
[01:50:30] <Bytram> ahh
[01:50:31] <Bytram> looks like your in for not much #weather
[01:50:33] <Bytram> lol
[01:50:48] <Bytram> that sounds nice!
[01:50:54] <Bytram> ~weather presque isle
[01:50:56] <exec> 10Presque Isle, ME, USA - currently 36°F, cloudy, wind W at 7 mph, humidity 74% - Monday scattered snow showers (31°F:42°F), Tuesday rain and snow (31°F:42°F), Wednesday cloudy (24°F:42°F), Thursday partly cloudy (28°F:42°F)
[01:50:59] <Bytram> ~weather portland, me
[01:51:00] <exec> 10Portland, ME, USA - currently 46°F, cloudy, wind NW at 13 mph, humidity 45% - Monday partly cloudy (35°F:56°F), Tuesday partly cloudy (33°F:49°F), Wednesday mostly sunny (31°F:48°F), Thursday cloudy (41°F:46°F)
[01:51:01] <Bytram> ~weather boston
[01:51:03] <exec> 10Boston, MA, USA - currently 50°F, partly cloudy, wind W at 14 mph, humidity 46% - Monday partly cloudy (39°F:60°F), Tuesday mostly sunny (36°F:49°F), Wednesday mostly sunny (36°F:47°F), Thursday rain (44°F:48°F)
[01:51:32] <Bytram> barely reaching 60 for the next few days, here.
[01:52:05] <Bytram> there's snow in the mountains the next few nights, too
[01:52:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh fun
[01:53:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> snow--
[01:53:02] <Bender> karma - snow: -4
[01:53:07] * Bytram thinks not so much
[01:55:01] * TheMightyBuzzard eyes the clock and drums his fingers
[01:55:20] * Bytram surreptitiously adjusts TheMightyBuzzard's clock
[01:56:15] <Bytram> have you had any luck with the comment display optimizations
[01:56:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh sure, that's done.
[01:56:36] <Bytram> oh? Nice!!
[01:56:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> also did up spoiler tags today
[01:57:06] <Bytram> do they work like <sarc> in that they just survive through saving without transformation?
[01:57:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> basically slightly darker blockquotes with the word spoiler at the top that after hovering over it for a second pops up the spoiler text
[01:57:45] <Bytram> sounds kewel! did you update the submit comments page to include them?
[01:58:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, that's just a db field
[01:58:30] <Bytram> btw, while you were there... couple things been bugging me... why do we replace "<blockquote>" with "<blockquote><div>" ??
[01:58:49] * TheMightyBuzzard shurgs
[01:59:04] <Bytram> and why does "<quote>" not just get translated to "<blockquote>"
[01:59:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> cause it predated blockquote i think
[01:59:44] <Bytram> don't think so.
[01:59:50] <Bytram> ISTR using blockquote on the green site
[01:59:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> hafta ask the /. guys then
[02:00:05] <Bytram> nice deflection there
[02:00:05] <Bytram> =)
[02:00:21] * Bytram is trying to push out a couple stories and then will call it a night
[02:00:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> we could make it just s/<quote>/<blockquote>/ pretty easy but there's currently no reason to
[02:01:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> anyway, nite
[02:01:55] <Bytram> why not? it'd make balance_tags have less work to do, and it would be an actual tag instead of a pseudo one that just gets translated, IIRC, to: <div class="blockquote">
[02:01:58] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:02:06] <Bytram> sleep well!
[02:02:06] <Bytram> ~gnight TheMightyBuzzard
[02:02:08] * exec diabolically cracks open a tumbleweed of santa's semen for TheMightyBuzzard
[02:03:54] <Bytram> ~weather jacksonville
[02:03:56] <exec> 10Jacksonville, FL, USA - currently 62°F, partly cloudy, wind S at 3 mph, humidity 72% - Monday partly cloudy (55°F:78°F), Tuesday partly cloudy (66°F:81°F), Wednesday partly cloudy (66°F:81°F), Thursday partly cloudy (63°F:82°F)
[02:15:23] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
[02:15:27] <Bytram|away> ~gnight all
[02:15:28] * exec abrasively nudges a biodome of tea toward all
[02:33:41] * cmn32480 made it all safe and sound...
[02:33:48] * cmn32480 watches the crickets
[02:35:14] <cmn32480> thanks for all the stories Bytram|away
[02:36:07] <cmn32480> cookies++
[02:36:07] <Bender> karma - cookies: 9
[02:36:15] <cmn32480> soylentboobs++
[02:36:15] <Bender> karma - soylentboobs: 7
[02:58:21] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Either Stars Are Strange, or There Are 234 Aliens Trying to Contact Us - http://sylnt.us - Take-me-to-your-leader
[03:21:11] <cmn32480> #sammich
[03:21:11] * MrPlow whips up a turkey sammich for cmn32480
[03:21:22] * cmn32480 wonders if MrPlow delivers
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[03:59:08] <Koekepan> ...anyone awake?
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[04:37:40] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - O'Reilly: Platform Software Developers are Now 'Managers', their Software is the 'Work Force' - http://sylnt.us - er,-yeah,-maybe
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[06:17:18] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Cops and Juries in Drug War-Happy Kansas are Refusing to Enforce Pot Prohibition - http://sylnt.us - jury-nullification
[07:16:36] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Leaked Samsung Doc Highlights Toxic Internal Culture - http://sylnt.us - capitalism-rocks!
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[07:55:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - What You Should Know about the Cobalt in Your Smartphone - http://sylnt.us - not-many-options
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[08:36:46] zz_janrinok is now known as janrinok
[08:37:18] <janrinok> ~tell TheMightyBuzzard transferred 4 x Spam to the Hold queue, if you are interested
[09:28:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Uranus May Have Two Undiscovered Moons - http://sylnt.us - That's no...Romulan?
[09:32:11] janrinok is now known as janrinok_afk
[10:21:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[10:21:13] <Bender> karma - coffee: 2954
[10:24:16] <boru> poitín++
[10:24:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> janrinok_afk, squared away
[10:24:41] * TheMightyBuzzard pokes Bender
[10:24:43] <boru> FU Bender.
[10:31:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit http://www.sciencealert.com It's that bloody dress all over again.
[10:31:14] <exec> └─ 13Saturn's mysterious hexagon has changed from blue to gold - and no one knows why - ScienceAlert
[10:31:14] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[10:31:39] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[10:56:30] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Total Cost of USA's Wars Since 2001 Approaches $5 Trillion - http://sylnt.us - aggression-is-expensive
[11:07:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt it's me again margaret
[11:07:59] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com
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[12:35:43] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Webcams Used to Attack Reddit and Twitter Recalled - http://sylnt.us - rein-in-the-bots
[13:40:31] <janrinok_afk> ~nick janrinok
[13:41:10] <AndyTheAbsurd> /nick janrinok
[13:41:16] <AndyTheAbsurd> I think is what you want
[13:41:23] <janrinok_afk> ooops - finger trouble
[13:41:31] janrinok_afk is now known as janrinok
[13:41:33] <AndyTheAbsurd> ~gday janrinok
[13:41:35] * exec sexually experiences an i/o stream of logical fallacies with janrinok
[13:41:39] <janrinok> ~gday AndyTheAbsurd
[13:41:41] * exec single-handedly nudges an msi package of the dankest of memes toward AndyTheAbsurd
[13:41:48] <janrinok> draw
[13:42:16] <janrinok> although 'sexually experiences the dankest of memes' would be a winner
[13:42:20] * AndyTheAbsurd draws a dank meme
[13:43:05] <AndyTheAbsurd> `For maximum security, we will also allow you to run your own Vagrant Share server. This option is not available yet.` Bastards.
[13:45:52] <janrinok> what are you up to AndyTheAbsurd ?
[13:46:30] <AndyTheAbsurd> Reading up/trying out Vagrant
[13:46:53] <boru> Americans, what is Ohio like? The US DoD or some shady private contractor are sending me job offers.
[13:48:00] <janrinok> ~gday boru
[13:48:02] * exec insensitively gives birth to a lifetime supply of plastic grommets for boru
[13:48:07] <AndyTheAbsurd> boru: depends on where in Ohio you're going and the kind of place you like to be (the people I know liked Cleveland but hated Cincinnati - but different individuals in those two cities, so YMMV).
[13:48:24] <boru> ~Gday janrinok
[13:48:26] * exec hideously offers a pile of pyjama time to janrinok
[13:48:48] <boru> This gig seems to be in Springboro. I'm just vaguely interested.
[13:49:08] <boru> It's an RE gig, which would be interesting, but for the DoD et al, not so much.
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[14:06:54] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Space Station Accepts First Virginia Delivery in Two Years - http://sylnt.us - long-gestation-period
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[14:12:24] <exec> welcome Runaway1956: Dallas, TX, USA, 18°C/65°F, 9:12 am GMT-5, Tuesday, 25 October 2016
[14:31:38] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[14:32:26] <Bytram> coffee++
[14:32:26] <Bender> karma - coffee: 2955
[14:32:28] <Bytram> !uid
[14:32:29] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 6385, owned by organgtool
[14:32:41] <boru> poitín++
[14:33:06] <boru> Does Bender only do ASCII or some such?
[14:33:22] <Bytram> I believe so
[14:33:30] <boru> Lame.
[14:33:39] <Bytram> nah, that's a music tool
[14:33:43] <Bytram> ;)
[14:33:59] <janrinok> ~gday Bytram
[14:34:01] * exec metrosexually copies a terabyte of confusement for Bytram
[14:34:07] <Bytram> ~gday janrinok
[14:34:09] * exec faithfully deallocates a sweaty armpit of chinese chili from janrinok
[14:34:16] * janrinok thinks Bytram has enough confusement
[14:34:17] <Bytram> youwon that one
[14:34:28] <Bytram> oh, I sure do,and then some!
[14:34:33] <Bytram> how's things?
[14:34:37] <janrinok> how are you today?
[14:34:53] * Bytram notices janrinok has been posting stories like crazy
[14:35:04] * Bytram hopes he is not overdoing it.
[14:35:10] <janrinok> probably ...
[14:35:24] <Bytram> recuperating from a long stretch at work and minor digestion, umm, issues.
[14:35:28] <janrinok> S goes into a home tomorrow for 2 weeks to give me a bit of a break
[14:35:39] <Bytram> all | nothing ... if you know what I mean.
[14:35:48] <Bytram> ((( S )))
[14:35:50] <janrinok> understood
[14:36:28] <Bytram> ((( janrinok )))
[14:36:38] <janrinok> ty
[14:36:56] <Bytram> np, always wishing the best to both of you
[14:37:20] * Bytram has been battling PuTTY for a while
[14:37:31] <janrinok> the reason for my posting flurry is that cmn32480 is away and I wasn't sure what your availability is at present
[14:37:34] <boru> What's with the parentheses?
[14:37:43] <janrinok> hugs
[14:38:00] <Bytram> so far, okay... within a few weeks, though, things will start ramping up for the holiday season.
[14:38:16] <Bytram> don't expect as much this year vs prior, as more people are shopping on-line
[14:38:17] <janrinok> I knew it was coming but not quite sure when
[14:38:37] <Bytram> otoh, they'll prolly staff us a little lighter, so there'll prolly be even more work for us to do, per person
[14:38:48] * Bytram is an eternal optimist ;)
[14:39:12] * Bytram signed up for the wicked-early-in-the-morning Black Friday shipt.
[14:39:25] <Bytram> s/p/f/2
[14:39:26] <sedctl> <Bytram> signed up for the wicked-early-in-the-morning Black Friday shift.
[14:39:41] <janrinok> what do you call early?
[14:40:17] <Bytram> be there at 11:30pm on thursday night.
[14:40:28] <Bytram> place opens at midnight and need to get things set up ahead of time.
[14:41:15] <janrinok> early Friday morning is actually late Thursday night ....
[14:41:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeesh. i just damned near spent another hour troubleshooting nfs then i realized the power had flickered and i hadn't turned my server back on yet.
[14:41:40] <Bytram> ROFLMAO! So, sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[14:41:42] <janrinok> brb - nurse is here
[14:41:47] <Bytram> ciao for now
[14:42:07] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: ouch. I've done that.
[14:42:39] <Bytram> wait, no UPS on your server?
[14:42:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> always check the most basic things before you go getting your arcane knowledge out
[14:43:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah. consumer UPSs aren't worth a shit and I'm not spending the money on a good one.
[14:43:24] <Bytram> true that... otoh, after all THAT, you must be sure the rest of your connection is all set up correctly!
[14:43:55] <Bytram> my experience has been diffferent.. I'd not run any box without one.
[14:44:04] <Bytram> but... be sure the thing has a MUTE button
[14:44:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> every time i've needed one to work, i've instead found out the battery had taken a shit some time back.
[14:44:43] <Bytram> even 10 minutes run time is more than enough to ride out a short outage and then I can *choose* to gracefully shutdown my boxes instead of having a hard crash
[14:44:55] <AndyTheAbsurd> yeah I gotta replace my UPSes sometime in the nearish future.
[14:44:58] <Bytram> iz like backups... gotta check 'em once in a while
[14:45:06] <AndyTheAbsurd> None of them are newer than five years old I think.
[14:45:21] <Bytram> bout the same, here.
[14:45:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> backups? next you'll be telling me i need an account other than root on my box.
[14:45:46] <Bytram> LOL!
[14:46:04] <Bytram> which reminds me, I'm overdur on backing up my lappy
[14:46:20] <AndyTheAbsurd> "root"? What's that? I always log in to Windows as "Administrator"!
[14:46:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> i only log in to windows boxes with real logs
[14:46:52] <Bytram> maple or birch?
[14:47:11] <AndyTheAbsurd> Bytram: the obvious choice is oak, I think.
[14:47:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> cherry lately. whatever is handy from smoking fodder.
[14:47:33] <Bytram> AndyTheAbsurd: true, that, but which one? black oak, red oak, or white oak?
[14:48:06] <AndyTheAbsurd> whichever one is hardest
[14:48:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> most anything but pine beats computers in the great rps game that is life.
[14:48:27] * Bytram is seriously considering getting a new box to replace his win 7 pro machine so he can run linux/*bsd
[14:48:50] <Bytram> PuTTY is giving me heartburn
[14:49:22] <Bytram> and the telemetry in the upcoming win 7 updates is prodding me into finally acting
[14:49:23] <AndyTheAbsurd> there are a variety of alternate versions of PuTTY that you could try out
[14:49:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm, one hour until peak fishing time starts today...
[14:49:30] <boru> Does it support ECDSA or Ed25519 yet?
[14:49:45] <Bytram> don't know
[14:49:55] <boru> Probably not. It's a terrible client.
[14:58:59] <Bytram> break time
[14:59:01] <Bytram> biab
[15:24:47] <xhedit> putty does curve25519
[15:28:06] <boru> About time.
[15:46:13] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Tool Lets You Easily Install Ubuntu Touch OS on Mobile Devices - http://sylnt.us - easy-is-good
[16:35:43] <janrinok> back - that took a little longer than I expected ...
[16:38:43] <janrinok> Bytram, I'm just working with an FreeBSD box now - I've set it up over the last few days. Like all things, once you know what to do it is easy, but it is sufficiently different to cause a bit of head scratching ...
[16:39:04] <mechanicjay> janrinok: This has been my struggle with FreeBSD over the years.
[16:39:42] <janrinok> I had to revert to 10.3 to get a working driver for my graphics card - 11.0 has cocked up this particular driver
[16:39:54] <mechanicjay> Every so often, I say, "F-it, I'm going to try FreeBSD!" After a couple weeks, I end up in the "well, that was kinda fun, but I still can't get <somthing important> working right...back to GNU/Linux, I go!"
[16:40:21] <boru> I can relate. I'm the same, except in reverse.
[16:40:38] <janrinok> I think I've got everything working now, but that just might be because I don't know what is going wrong yet ... :)
[16:41:26] <janrinok> whereas linux just works, FreeBSD does need a much deeper knowledge to set things up.
[16:42:16] <mechanicjay> I seriously tried to run it as a desktop about a year ago, and I was just completely unsuccessful in getting any sort of reasonable video performance out of the damn thing. As in, I just couldn't use it to watch movies.
[16:43:11] <janrinok> I've not tried movies yet - that is what I will do tonight!
[16:44:24] <mechanicjay> I found VLC is available to install, but things were choppy as hell, not sure what was going on, but CPUs were pegged and I was getting crap for frame-rates -- which tells me something was happening is software that aught to have been happening in hardware...
[16:45:06] <janrinok> I haven't found a graphical UI for installing pkgs yet - How do you know what is available unless you can browse through them with some explanation of what each does?
[16:45:38] <mechanicjay> I just did some pkg search operations.
[16:45:40] <janrinok> Yep, VLC seems to tie up one core at least
[16:45:51] <mechanicjay> I guess there's also the ports tree
[16:46:01] <janrinok> yes, but to do a pgk search, you have to have an idea what each package does
[16:46:47] <boru> You might prefer PC-BSD, if you want graphical bells and whistles.
[16:47:00] <janrinok> same with ports - a list of possible pkgs but no written work on what they each do - synaptic in linux provides an explanation of whatever you are installing
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[16:47:14] <boru> FWIW, no problems with mplayer/smplayer for video.
[16:47:48] <janrinok> I hate PC-BSD - there is something seriously amiss with the updates. Numerous people are complaining about it taking hours rather than minutes, or crashing out altogether
[16:48:14] <boru> Well, that's a bit poo, indeed.
[16:48:47] <janrinok> I am quite happy at the command line - pkg updating takes seconds. but PC-BSD goes away and makes a meal of it
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[16:48:57] <boru> I've not run into these problems with BSD, but I think our requirements are pretty different, from the sounds of it.
[16:49:09] <boru> Yeah, I've seen some shoddy linux package managers do that.
[16:49:37] <janrinok> boru, so if I see a port or a pkg called abcd, where do I have to look to find out what abcd does?
[16:49:37] <boru> Not all, though. Some of them do SAT solving etc pretty snappily.
[16:50:32] <boru> Ports generally have pkg-descr in their port directories.
[16:51:21] <janrinok> In synaptic I can search for IRC clients, and synaptic will give me a list of them with explanations of each one and often a link to the site
[16:51:49] <boru> ls /usr/ports/irc
[16:53:42] <janrinok> yes, but is irc2dc a client, a utility like ZNC, or what?
[16:54:19] <boru> cat /usr/ports/irc/irc2dc/pkg-descr
[16:54:32] <boru> (Or pkg search blah)
[16:54:53] <janrinok> so you have to do that manually for each ported program?
[16:55:16] <boru> You don't have to do anything.
[16:55:32] <boru> I don't browse for programs, I know what programs I want, and build/install them.
[16:55:39] <janrinok> I think I am missing a vital piece of knowledge
[16:55:55] <janrinok> ah, but if you don't know what you want - how do you find it?
[16:56:03] <boru> You seem to want some graphical catalogue which allows you to browse for programs, like a catalogue.
[16:56:37] <janrinok> well , it doesn't have to be graphical, but the current method assumes one knows what every package actually does
[16:56:50] <boru> Have you read the man page for `pkg`?
[16:56:55] <janrinok> yep
[16:57:00] <boru> Try `pkg help search`
[16:57:38] <boru> (-D might be of use)
[16:57:39] <janrinok> I enjoy just browsing through the available packages and seeing what is available, and what might make my life easier
[16:58:09] <boru> Well, I'm not aware of anything like a package brochure, personally.
[16:58:35] <boru> I use FreeBSD as a desktop system without any problems, but the general consensus is to use PC-BSD if you want a frilly-linux-like desktop.
[16:59:04] <janrinok> I've tried PC-BSD but, as I say, had numerous update problems
[16:59:05] <boru> I think our requirements are very different.
[16:59:50] <janrinok> I've got it working as a desktop now, but I don't know enough about FreeBSD to get it to do what I can on linux. Time will hopefully change that
[17:00:07] <boru> Yes, as with all unfamiliar things.
[17:00:35] <janrinok> exactly - I was just hoping that there was a program that did what I wanted but about which I know nothing
[17:01:39] <boru> Well, whilst it can be used as a desktop system, it's not designed to be one.
[17:01:45] <boru> Which is why PC-BSD exists.
[17:03:26] <boru> You'll find a lot of projects don't know/care about BSD, and so there's often a significant porting effort.
[17:04:53] <boru> I haven't run into that much, lately, though.
[17:05:11] <janrinok> understood. I'm currently using F-BSD now; here on IRC, for doing my editing jobs, and for programming. But I have favourite progs that I cannot find an equivalent for in pkg/ports
[17:05:26] <boru> Can you give me an example?
[17:06:00] <boru> FWIW, I recommend portmaster for managing your ports.
[17:06:01] <janrinok> well, synaptic was the obvious one. There are loads of packages but I haven't found an easy way to browse through them and look at each in turn
[17:06:18] <boru> And read /usr/ports/UPDATING regularly.
[17:06:29] <janrinok> I am doing that!
[17:06:38] <boru> Or `pkg updating`
[17:06:48] <boru> You might also like `pkg audit -F`
[17:06:48] <janrinok> I've been very impressed at the speed and frequency of updates
[17:06:57] <boru> I recommend using svn for ports, too.
[17:07:12] <boru> Portsnap can't downgrade unless you use portdowngrade.
[17:07:32] <boru> Ports are good because fixes land there before binary packages.
[17:07:33] <janrinok> svn, rather than git?
[17:07:50] <boru> I'm not aware of an official git repo of ports, but either one.
[17:08:02] <AndyTheAbsurd> git is Linus Torvalds baby, so the BSD people don't like it. :-P
[17:08:23] <boru> I hate all vcs tools.
[17:08:32] <boru> Git is alright.
[17:08:39] <AndyTheAbsurd> they're all easily hateable
[17:08:47] <janrinok> lol - all packages were written by somebody, and lots of the BSD ones have been ported from linux, but your point is well made AndyTheAbsurd
[17:08:56] <boru> svn is just bearable; they came from cvs afterall..
[17:09:33] <janrinok> All my own work here is a local git repo
[17:10:13] <boru> Anyway, other tips: get comfortable, install the handbook, rebuild world and a custom kernel at least once, learn about jails, learn about capsicum, learn about man page sections, which are generally much higher quality.
[17:11:32] <boru> IPFW is the 'official' FreeBSD firewall, but PF is more powerful, imho; better syntax, makes routing very easy etc.
[17:11:56] <boru> If you use sshguard, install sshguard-XXX where XXX is the firewall you're using.
[17:12:12] <boru> That'll create tables for you, which you can use in you PF rules.
[17:12:38] <janrinok> I have a hardware firewall between my network and my router. I'll not be changing that for a while yet
[17:12:40] <boru> FreeBSD 11 has netmap compiled in by default, which means Snort shits lightning.
[17:12:52] <boru> Fair enough, just brain dumping.
[17:13:27] <boru> LBC is useful, libmap.conf can be useful in a bind (temporarily)
[17:13:30] <janrinok> 10.3 here, 11.0 wouldn't play with my graphics card. Others have had the same problem and reported the bug, so hopefully a fix will be along sometime
[17:13:42] <boru> Which driver?
[17:13:55] <boru> I can annoy the devs.
[17:14:25] <janrinok> it wouldn't play with intel i965 at all, so I dug an old nvidia card out and the legacy driver would only compile in 10, not 11
[17:14:36] <boru> Odd.
[17:15:26] <janrinok> the nvidia problem I can understand - there is no money in nvidia writing a new F-BSD driver for an old card
[17:15:32] <boru> Which 11.0 did you install?
[17:15:58] <boru> -RELEASE, -STABLE or -CURRENT?
[17:16:05] <janrinok> RELEASE - it's only been out a few weeks
[17:16:14] <boru> Yeah.
[17:16:23] <janrinok> brb - 5
[17:16:29] * boru nods.
[17:17:22] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - New Metamaterial Paves Way for Terahertz Technologies - http://sylnt.us - picture-this!
[17:20:34] <xhedit> why so freebsd? I love openbsd ;x
[17:21:47] <boru> I like OpenBSD as well, and NetBSD. Different systems for different places for me, personally.
[17:22:22] <boru> In fact, I probably prefer NetBSD of the three, but I get the most mileage out of FreeBSD for a desktop system to work on.
[17:22:32] <boru> I prefer how OpenBSD does package management, though.
[17:22:43] <boru> i.e. with different port option combinations etc.
[17:23:29] <janrinok> sry boru - I was enjoying that.
[17:23:41] <boru> Hmm?
[17:23:58] <janrinok> I was picking your brain
[17:24:12] <boru> Ah, right. Of course. Sometimes it's hard to shut me up...
[17:24:18] <janrinok> I didn't realise that the BSDs were so different
[17:24:41] <boru> Different philosophies on things, but there's a lot of overlap.
[17:25:08] <boru> FreeBSD has made some bad design decisions over the years, though.
[17:25:16] <boru> dbus and hal, for example...
[17:25:29] <janrinok> well, they all do, but I don't worry until they reach MS levels
[17:26:29] <xhedit> well .. my default linux distro has like 180 processes running on my desktop, my openbsd machine has 31 processes running
[17:26:52] <xhedit> don't expect graphic drivers for nvidia on openbsd
[17:26:58] <janrinok> xhedit, but most of the linux ones are sleeping
[17:27:15] <xhedit> it's still 103023404 systemd crap processes fouling up the scheduler
[17:27:25] <janrinok> lol
[17:27:27] <boru> Most of them aren't necessary, imho, but I'm not about to start a flamewar. That's been done to death.
[17:28:05] <janrinok> boru - agreed!
[17:28:23] <xhedit> I love the openbsd actual code though, it's almost always nice and clean
[17:28:26] <boru> Many of the deeper technical issues I am appreciative of; deterministic memory allocation, and that sort of thing.
[17:28:42] <boru> FreeBSD uses jemalloc. Linux didn't have deterministic allocation for a long time.
[17:28:51] <boru> ISTR it being the default in stock kernels these days, though.
[17:28:56] <janrinok> I like to have several different systems so that if one goes tits up after a bad decision, I'm not left without an escape plan
[17:28:57] <boru> I think those sorts of things are important.
[17:30:26] <janrinok> I'm not really concerned at that level of operation - as long as it works and does what I want I am easily pleased. But it has to make my life easier rather than more difficult.
[17:30:43] <boru> Aye, I like my tools to stay out of my way and get on with work.
[17:31:16] <janrinok> incidentally boru, which desktop do you use?
[17:31:29] <boru> Fluxbox and enlightenment.
[17:31:37] <janrinok> a true purist
[17:31:43] * boru chuckles.
[17:31:59] <boru> xhedit; agreed on OpenBSD code; it's a joy to read.
[17:32:12] <janrinok> I've got 8 boxes, either servers or with MATE desktop
[17:33:01] <boru> `whereis mate`
[17:33:22] <janrinok> it is a port of gnome2
[17:33:36] <boru> Yeah, I know, I was just telling you where to find the port.
[17:33:39] <janrinok> gnome3 took away too many options
[17:33:54] <janrinok> oh, I found that one very early on
[17:34:14] <boru> pormaster will present you with build options (configure options, the equivalent of `make config` in a port directory) if you haven't configured it before.
[17:34:46] <boru> Some ports don't have options, naturally, but it allows you to control dependencies a bit i.e. if you don't want 100 things installed for stuff you don't use.
[17:35:07] <janrinok> I've installed all of this one the long way round - it was an attempt to make me understand it more. But I couldn't find replacements for some programs, as we discussed earlier
[17:35:18] <boru> svn up /usr/ports && portmaster -L | grep New | sort # When you want to see what there's updates for.
[17:35:20] <xhedit> I compiled and used enlightenment trunk recently.. pretty decent
[17:35:27] <xhedit> i went back to xfce though
[17:35:42] <boru> Enlightenment was at its best around e17, imho.
[17:35:49] <boru> I don't really like the newer releases.
[17:36:08] <xhedit> terminology is a really nice term emulator, i just miss a scrollbar
[17:36:22] <boru> I use xterm, personally.
[17:36:28] <boru> With some tweaking, of course.
[17:36:50] <xhedit> I was just doing some lunatic-style stuff with graphics in the terminal to play around
[17:37:28] <boru> Heh
[17:37:29] <xhedit> like cat'ing images puts it in the terminal scroll buffer
[17:38:20] <xhedit> there's a file browser called ranger that can do graphic previews in the console. if you don't have graphic support it will use libcaca which is.. hilarious always
[17:38:22] <boru> I'm fairly plain when it comes to that stuff.
[17:38:32] <boru> Yeah, I think I saw that before.
[17:38:50] <xhedit> I was mostly just trying out snazzed up terminal emulators
[17:39:00] <xhedit> no real utility involved
[17:39:04] * boru nods
[17:39:05] <xhedit> pimp my terminal
[17:40:25] <xhedit> i also built inferno and tried using it
[17:40:28] <xhedit> don't bother
[17:40:36] <boru> I don't think I know that one.
[17:40:45] <boru> xterm, tmux and ksh93 and I'm happy, really.
[17:40:46] <xhedit> plan 9 version 2 basically
[17:40:51] <boru> Ah.
[17:41:54] <xhedit> I value scrollbar buffer, so I usually use konsole or xfce terminal
[17:42:00] <xhedit> scrollback*
[17:42:21] <boru> Yep, xterm allows configuring that, too.
[17:42:44] <xhedit> xterm only has 16 colors iirc though
[17:43:12] <boru> It has 256.
[17:43:35] <xhedit> i'm more likely to use urxvt
[17:43:37] <boru> Or, well, can support 256.
[17:43:50] <boru> (for tmux, vim etc)
[17:45:01] <boru> It's small, simple and lightweight, which is what my personal requirements are.
[17:45:11] <boru> tmux provides the rest.
[17:48:53] <xhedit> I used xterm all the time before year 2000 :)
[17:50:42] <xhedit> it was just as smooth back then on a pentium as it is now, it's definitely a very lightweight terminal
[17:52:48] <boru> Aye.
[17:53:18] <boru> Shame the Pentium was a PoS.
[17:54:09] <boru> Microcode translation, IEEE 754 aliasing, general CISC legacy mess...
[17:54:19] <xhedit> beats a 486sx though
[17:54:21] <boru> It was only downhill for Inhell from there.
[17:55:00] <xhedit> you don't like micro ops?
[17:55:25] <boru> I would've just invented a new ISA, personally.
[17:55:37] <xhedit> fair enough hah
[17:55:38] <boru> And left the cruft behind.
[17:55:53] <boru> I don't like CISC in general, though.
[17:56:20] <xhedit> I don't even mind x86.. stockholm syndrome maybe
[17:56:51] <boru> Heh, aye, I think that goes for most old hands who've worked with it.
[17:58:47] <xhedit> I mean, I know x86-64 but 32 bit intel syntax x86 is my default assembly language
[17:59:33] <boru> It was one of mine, from a...hobbyist perspective for over a decade, but I worked with a few different ISAs.
[18:01:21] <xhedit> I mostly spent long periods of time in ida hacking online games for shits and giggles
[18:01:40] <boru> Aye, I use IDA quite a bit.
[18:01:46] <boru> Though I didn't renew my licence this year.
[18:01:59] <xhedit> i learned radare2 recently.. it's pretty nice
[18:02:16] <boru> IDA is fine for static analysis, but I use other tools for live debugging.
[18:02:32] <xhedit> some people like to use ida for debugging, not my favorite
[18:02:33] <boru> r2 takes some getting used to, and I don't like the new ewb crap they put into it.
[18:02:51] <boru> Yeah, they keep breaking some of the debugging modules.
[18:02:59] <boru> I used to do IDA -> gdb -> opeocd.
[18:03:04] <boru> Err, openocd, rather.
[18:03:23] <xhedit> embedded then?
[18:03:26] <boru> Aye.
[18:04:04] <xhedit> I just ordered a ft232h breakout to have a nice jtag interface
[18:04:10] <xhedit> to openocd
[18:05:26] <boru> They're popular. I get along with a few other adapters. I ues my olimex one the most.
[18:05:44] <boru> Either as standard IEEE 1149.1 or for SWD.
[18:05:50] <xhedit> i guess jlink is popular?
[18:06:02] <xhedit> I'm kinda new to hardware debugging
[18:06:52] <boru> JLink is overpriced junk, imho.
[18:06:59] <boru> Better off with the Chinese knockoffs.
[18:07:33] <boru> A hardware debugging tool set gets expensive.
[18:07:56] <boru> Scopes, logic analysers, protocol decoders, debug hardware etc.
[18:08:04] <xhedit> yeah, it's a lot of kit
[18:08:49] <xhedit> it's new to me though, so it is more "fun" and learning than writing software at the moment
[18:08:59] <boru> My last big purchase was an MSOX3104A.
[18:09:38] <xhedit> now you're bragging!
[18:09:51] <xhedit> that's a nice as shit scope
[18:09:59] <boru> Yeah, it's often a nice break for me, too. I don't do much RE at the moment, other than looking at listings for other people on other nets. Some other projects keep me busy at the moment.
[18:10:09] <boru> Heh, yeah, I got a good deal secondhand.
[18:10:39] <boru> Work is a bit tedious at the moment, so writing programs in my spare time is therapy.
[18:14:24] <janrinok> time to go, see you guys around
[18:14:35] <xhedit> have you ever used an rf scope probe, boru?
[18:15:10] <janrinok> thanks for the convo and advice boru
[18:15:19] <xhedit> ciao janrinok
[18:15:22] <boru> Sure thing, any time.
[18:15:25] <boru> Catch you later.
[18:15:43] <boru> Yeah, I use a lot of RF kit at work. We make RF ASICs.
[18:16:00] janrinok is now known as zz_janrinok
[18:28:27] <xhedit> I'd like to reverse a cochlear implant. I really have no idea where to start with the cheapest oscope that can monitor the supposedly 49 mhz signal as I don't know anything about using rf probes in practical terms.
[18:28:57] <boru> Well, SDRs can be spendy.
[18:30:45] <boru> If you're into RF, a bladeRF might be a good investment, if not one of those USRP boxes. Don't waste your money on a hackRF.
[18:33:29] <boru> Probes are going to cost you.
[18:34:17] <xhedit> that's why I'm asking for advice! :P
[18:34:39] <xhedit> I can't afford to spew out money getting everything I don't need heh
[18:35:05] <boru> I'd advise jumping into a ham channel and asking there. I don't really do much RF work in my spare time.
[18:35:26] <xhedit> good idea ;x
[18:35:29] <boru> Downloading weather data from satellites and some rudimentary radio astronomy is about as interesting as it gets for me.
[18:38:20] <boru> Well, I listen to HF sometimes, as well.
[18:47:55] <xhedit> pocorgtfo had a new edition, dunno if that is worthy of a soylent submission
[18:49:11] <boru> I should really get back to submitting, actually.
[18:49:27] <boru> I probably have a backlog the length of my arm at this stage...
[18:50:04] <boru> I doubt most folks would be familiar with poc||gtfo, though.
[18:57:01] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - New Bacteria Groups, and Stunning Diversity, Discovered Underground - http://sylnt.us - bacterial-bonanza
[18:58:08] <xhedit> NCommander did that thing on the dos era stuff, so maybe there's enough interest
[18:58:46] <boru> Yeah, I think I recall seeing an article he wrote on SN.
[19:57:07] <AndyTheAbsurd> butts++
[19:57:07] <Bender> karma - butts: 5
[19:58:51] <boru> poitín++
[19:59:16] <AndyTheAbsurd> I think your accent mark broke Bender
[19:59:28] <AndyTheAbsurd> which reminds me I need to fix my compose key so I can type those.
[19:59:34] <boru> Yes, I've been doing it all day in protest.
[20:00:03] <AndyTheAbsurd> fïxéd.
[20:00:30] * boru tries to pronounce that.
[20:01:06] <AndyTheAbsurd> I'm American, I don't even know what any of those marks mean. :D
[20:01:17] * boru chuckles
[20:02:04] <AndyTheAbsurd> seriously, we don't use them and we don't encounter languages other than English often enough that it's worth figuring out
[20:02:37] <AndyTheAbsurd> I took German in high school so I kind of know want ä, ö, and ü are supposed to sound like in that language
[20:02:53] <boru> And you butcher English as it is!
[20:03:16] <AndyTheAbsurd> Yeah, American English isn't the same as British English.
[20:03:38] <AndyTheAbsurd> And "American English" isn't even one thing, it's more a set of loosely related dialects.
[20:04:46] <boru> https://jakubmarian.com
[20:04:52] <boru> Relevant.
[20:06:04] <AndyTheAbsurd> It needs an Australian flag, label "English (for cunts)"
[20:07:59] * boru chuckles
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[20:36:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Lexus, Toyota and Buick Top New-Auto Reliability Survey - http://sylnt.us - would-you-recommend-this-car-to-a-friend?
[22:16:12] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Audit Reveals Significant Vulnerabilities for TrueCrypt and Successor VeraCrypt - http://sylnt.us - decrypt-this
[22:17:54] <chromas> [poitín]-- downvoating 'cause I dunno what it is
[22:17:54] <Bender> karma - [poitín]: -1
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[22:28:32] <exec> welcome JamesNZ: Wellington, New Zealand 12:13 PM Chatham Island (GMT+13:45), 16°C/60°F, 11:28 am NZDT, Wednesday, 26 October 2016
[22:42:45] * boru scoffs
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[23:55:50] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Update: Convictions Upheld, Sentences Extended In Romanian Microsoft Bribery Trial - http://sylnt.us - money-for-something
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[23:56:06] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v takyon_] by Aphrodite