#Soylent | Logs for 2016-09-24
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[00:10:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> #socialist crutchy
[00:10:29] <MrPlow> crutchy, you're a socialist!
[00:10:59] <crutchy> ~g'day TheMightyBuzzard o/
[00:11:01] * exec single-handedly ships an array of more cowbell with TheMightyBuzzard
[00:11:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~gday crutchy
[00:11:11] * exec proverbially terrorizes a triply-linked list of oil with crutchy
[00:19:08] <pinchy> found my dream phone http://xkcd.com
[00:19:08] <MontyPascal> ^ 03xkcd: xkcd Phone 4
[00:19:24] <pinchy> handy gregorian julian date switch
[00:27:26] * mechanicjay is now reading up on Gregorian calendar reforms
[00:30:21] <cmn32480> hmmmm
[00:30:30] <crutchy> lol "12 headphone jacks"
[00:30:42] <cmn32480> if you were looking for plans for a birdhouse that could be made from the wood found in a pallet... where would you look?
[00:31:34] <crutchy> you would consult your trusty engineer with experience in these matters, and I would be happy to accept payment by $insert_method_herre
[00:31:37] <crutchy> :D
[00:32:12] <crutchy> ~g'day cmn32480
[00:32:14] * exec abnormally experiences a 40 of hornets with cmn32480
[00:32:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> cmn32480, i'd just start drafting them. wouldn't take 10m.
[00:32:28] <crutchy> do you have the equivalent of bunnings there?
[00:32:29] * cmn32480 looks around for a qualified engineer...
[00:32:45] <crutchy> bunnings probably has a self-assembly birdcage aisle :|
[00:32:53] * cmn32480 fails miserably in his quest
[00:33:01] <cmn32480> WTF is a bunning?
[00:33:06] <mecctro> I mean... it's not rocket science
[00:33:06] <cmn32480> ~g bunning
[00:33:08] <crutchy> ~g bunnings warehouse
[00:33:10] <exec> [google] https://www.bunnings.com.au
[00:33:11] <exec> [google] https://www.bunnings.com.au
[00:33:14] <cmn32480> rockets are tomorrow
[00:33:24] <mecctro> rockets are today
[00:33:33] <crutchy> sharks with lasers are tomorrow
[00:33:36] <cmn32480> nah we launch the rockets tomorrow
[00:33:47] <cmn32480> at the cub scout camp out
[00:33:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> #g bunnings
[00:34:00] <MrPlow> https://www.bunnings.com.au - "Find store information, opening times, services, tools and more. Come visit us today."
[00:34:02] <cmn32480> which I am skipping the overnight portion of because of my ankle
[00:34:26] <crutchy> cmn32480, https://www.bunnings.com.au
[00:34:26] <cmn32480> i.e. -The Aussie version of Home Depot or Lowes
[00:34:29] <MontyPascal> ^ 03Search - Our range | Bunnings Warehouse ( https://www.bunnings.com.au )
[00:34:38] <crutchy> (that's what i'd do here anyway0
[00:34:55] <cmn32480> heh
[00:34:56] <cmn32480> yeah
[00:35:02] <cmn32480> but I haev to build them w/ my scouts
[00:35:13] <crutchy> ah. you mean a "real" bird cage
[00:35:15] <cmn32480> and pallet wood is plentiful (and free)
[00:35:21] <cmn32480> no... bird HOUSE
[00:35:27] <crutchy> bird mansion
[00:35:35] * cmn32480 checks pinterest
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[00:35:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> stick with the 1x material. the 2x sides isn't going to be much use unless you rip it thinner.
[00:36:10] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Twitter Reportedly in Talks With Google, Salesforce for Potential Sale - http://sylnt.us - the-big-boys-get-bigger
[00:36:26] <mecctro> Salesforce lol
[00:36:47] <crutchy> cmn32480, how about this? http://farm4.staticflickr.com
[00:37:27] <cmn32480> that's some dig birds
[00:37:43] <crutchy> 3.5 inches?
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[00:38:55] <cmn32480> maybe
[00:39:17] * cmn32480 thigns everythgin is bigger and maor deadly in Australia
[00:39:45] <cmn32480> I mean... fer real....
[00:39:45] <cmn32480> http://www.nytimes.com
[00:39:46] <MontyPascal> ^ 03( http://www.nytimes.com
[00:40:08] <cmn32480> http://www.nytimes.com
[00:40:09] <MontyPascal> ^ 03( http://www.nytimes.com
[00:40:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, i coulda toldja that. hell every fisherman in the country should be able to.
[00:40:18] <mecctro> funny, just talked about that with TMB earlier
[00:40:29] <cmn32480> http://www.nytimes.com
[00:40:30] <MontyPascal> ^ 03( http://www.nytimes.com )
[00:40:44] <cmn32480> yeesh
[00:40:50] <cmn32480> 4lb Goldfish???
[00:41:02] <cmn32480> seriously? your rivers originate at nuclear reactors or some shit?
[00:41:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> except this biology degree having friend of mine who decided to test a pond to see if it'd support fish yet by dumping half a dozen goldfish in
[00:41:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> cmn32480, goldfish are carp. carp get big.
[00:41:47] <cmn32480> goldfish are pets... that ought not to be bigger thean their cat preditors
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[00:41:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> six months later they drained the pond and pulled out about 20K goldfish.
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[00:42:15] <SirFinkus> woohoo friday
[00:42:25] <SirFinkus> one week fo school done
[00:42:48] <cmn32480> geebus!
[00:42:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> so we bought a couple hundred little plastic goldfish and hid them all over his house and office
[00:43:01] <SirFinkus> gig tomorrow, but that one's a day gig
[00:43:03] <SirFinkus> 11-3
[00:43:06] <SirFinkus> which is noice
[00:43:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> smooth
[00:43:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> play some skynyrd, man!
[00:44:00] <SirFinkus> lol
[00:44:13] <SirFinkus> we don't have any of that
[00:44:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt the needle and the spoon
[00:44:30] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com
[00:44:47] <cmn32480> Play some Polly Wolly Doodle Man!
[00:47:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> SirFinkus, fine then. play some leadbelly
[00:47:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt leadbelly where did you sleep last night
[00:47:59] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com
[00:50:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt leadbelly black betty
[00:50:11] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com
[00:52:03] <cmn32480> I keep coming up w/ stuff like this: https://www.pinterest.com
[00:52:05] <MontyPascal> ^ 03It seems that my little collection of barn board birdhouses has sparked some interest from people who would like to build a barn board birdhouse of… | Pinteres…
[00:54:03] <SirFinkus> I prefer the ram jam version
[00:54:44] <SirFinkus> we're going to do the ram jam black betty eventually
[00:57:04] see is now known as snookums
[00:59:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> well everyone does their own version. cept leadbelly cause he wrote great shit n didn't need to play anyone else's shit.
[00:59:53] <cmn32480> http://www.mycarpentry.com
[00:59:54] <MontyPascal> ^ 03Free Birdhouse Plans
[00:59:58] <cmn32480> that'll work!
[01:00:07] <cmn32480> and I can do it from pallets!
[01:01:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> just make a box 12" by 8" by 8". works great for 1x4s
[01:02:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> or whatever by 8 by 8
[01:02:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> LxWxH
[01:02:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> then put some holes in it so's da boids can get in
[01:09:09] <SirFinkus> pretty much all of music is people playing other people's shit
[01:09:29] <SirFinkus> black betty is an old as fuck song
[01:09:30] <SirFinkus> leadbelly didn't write it
[01:12:08] * SirFinkus googled "black betty hip hop" and is sorry he dead
[01:15:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> typo or wishful thinking?
[01:15:59] <cmn32480> both, most likely
[01:16:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, he did other people's shat. but people covered ALL of his shat.
[01:36:30] <SirFinkus> he did
[01:36:32] <SirFinkus> blah
[01:36:50] <SirFinkus> you brought up black betty
[01:36:55] <SirFinkus> which wasn't his "own version"
[01:37:05] <SirFinkus> since the song had been around for a while
[01:37:30] <SirFinkus> ram jam elevated it
[01:41:27] * snookums is cute.
[01:42:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's a dangerous thing to be around here
[01:42:40] <crutchy> ~g'day snookums
[01:42:41] * exec abrasively stuffs a C cup of Ethanol-fueled's left testicle into snookums
[01:42:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> we eat unicorn sammiches and wear teddybear skin hats
[01:42:45] <crutchy> lol
[01:43:05] <crutchy> yeah you end up eating e-f's left testicle
[01:44:22] <SirFinkus> which really, is an adorable testicle
[01:44:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> !grab SirFinkus
[01:44:37] <Bender> Added quote 776
[01:45:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> !quote 275
[01:45:07] <Bender> Quote 275 - <crutchy> paulej72 is the butt
[01:50:55] <pinchy> !quote
[01:51:07] <pinchy> !quote 1
[01:51:55] <pinchy> !list AOL-crack.zip
[01:57:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> think you gotta be authed with nickserv to play the quote game
[01:57:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> !quote 1
[01:57:51] <Bender> Quote 1 - <NCommander> DarkMorph, because whenever I have to touch hashref's I want to stab my eyes out
[01:58:07] <NCommander> still do
[01:58:18] * NCommander stabs TheMightyBuzzard with a hashref
[01:58:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> i lurve em. they make me all tingly
[01:58:26] * TheMightyBuzzard tingles
[01:58:32] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, that's the clap. Go see a doctor.
[01:58:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> fair nuff
[02:00:20] * NCommander feels frustated
[02:00:29] TheMightyBuzzard is now known as frustrated
[02:00:57] frustrated is now known as TheMightyBuzzard
[02:01:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> sup, dos givin ya hell?
[02:02:14] <NCommander> haven't had much desire to write. The last article response seemed lukewarm
[02:02:47] <SirFinkus> dos malware is rather niche
[02:02:54] * NCommander is currently hacking apt-get to build under cygwin
[02:02:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> i didn't get to read it. airplanes and phone screens and having to set up a vm the next day and pick through laptops.
[02:03:04] <SirFinkus> but I expect the people that did enjoy it, liked it a lot
[02:04:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> shoulda read it today but it'd slipped my mind by then
[02:06:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> right, i got my doings done so i feel obliged to go fishing in the morning. see you lot after. i'm off to sleep.
[02:08:57] <mecctro> ~gnight TheMightBuzzard
[02:08:58] * exec covertly heaps a data stream of pancakes on TheMightBuzzard
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[02:12:04] * cmn32480 thinks that TheMightyBuzzard has a good idea
[02:12:34] <cmn32480> I'get got the story queue out to 2pm.... that ought to hold us until.... about 2pm.
[02:12:43] <cmn32480> ~gngiht #soylent
[02:13:07] <cmn32480> ~gnight #soylent
[02:13:09] * exec illegitimately hucks a wallet of frustration at #soylent
[02:15:27] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Microsoft and Sony's Emerging 4K Pissing Contest - http://sylnt.us - hehe-they-said-pissing-hehe
[02:17:29] <mecctro> ~gnight cmn32480
[02:17:31] * exec ironically violates 40 gallons worth of beverage with cmn32480
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[03:40:43] <SirFinkus> god
[03:40:46] <SirFinkus> so having a goat
[03:40:53] <SirFinkus> is the best pickup in the world
[03:41:50] <SirFinkus> https://youtu.be
[03:41:52] <SirFinkus> for fat aussie chicks
[03:41:57] <MontyPascal> ^ 03JIMBO FLIES BACK TO AUSTRALIA TO SAVE GARY'S ASS - YouTube ( https://www.youtube.com )
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[04:08:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Choosing Public Service Locations via Local Concensus - http://sylnt.us - where-to-make-the-dump
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[05:46:32] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Direct Observation of Graphene Decoupling On Cu(111) - http://sylnt.us - WOOSH!
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[07:36:31] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - AT&T "Nears First Field Trials" for Millimetre-wave Network - http://sylnt.us - broadband-is-a-relative-term
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[08:51:08] <crutchy> those chicks aren't fat
[08:53:57] <crutchy> "you're trying to rape my goat" lol
[08:54:16] <crutchy> lmao she's not sure if she's trying to finger the goat's arse
[08:54:42] <crutchy> she's a pretty cool chick. better than stuck up snobs in melbourne/sydney
[09:25:56] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - US House Report on Snowden is "Mostly Lies" - http://sylnt.us - what's-that-tune-you-are-whistling?
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[09:46:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[09:46:36] <Bender> karma - coffee: 2884
[09:53:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> #weather
[09:53:45] <MrPlow> Today: Sunny. High 93F. Winds light and variable. Tomorrow: Sunshine. High 93F. Winds light and variable.
[09:54:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> well that's getting monotonous
[10:06:07] <crutchy> #weather
[10:06:07] <MrPlow> Today: Rain. Lows overnight in the upper 40s. Tomorrow: Partly to mostly cloudy. High 57F. Winds SW at 10 to 20 mph.
[10:06:22] <crutchy> i don't even know what that fucken means
[10:06:27] <crutchy> ~weather
[10:06:29] <exec> 4Melbourne VIC - currently 14°C, light drizzle, wind N at 27 km/h, humidity 77% - Saturday rain (8°C:20°C), Sunday partly cloudy (7°C:14°C), Monday scattered showers (7°C:16°C), Tuesday partly cloudy (8°C:15°C)
[10:06:44] <crutchy> ah the sweet smell of metricated numbers
[10:08:56] <crutchy> !quote fart
[10:08:56] <Bender> Quote 357 - <crutchy> before i cam here i didn't even know what 'regex' means. now i can make fart jokes with minimal typing :D
[10:09:00] <Bender> Also in quotes: 393, 445, 646, 674
[10:12:18] <crutchy> !quote crutchy
[10:12:18] <Bender> Quote 27 - <crutchy> buggered if i know
[10:12:22] <Bender> Also in quotes: 28, 33, 34, 37, 39, 40, 46, 47, 54, 58, 59, 60, 69, 70, 71, 77, 122, 123, 131, 133, 137, 140, 144, 157, 159, 162, 167, 174, 175, 177, 181, 187, 194, 198, 199, 200, 205, 218, 221, 225, 226, 227, 231, 234, 240, 241, 247, 251, 252, 263, 264, 265, 269, 270, 275, 276, 278, 281, 292, 306, 311, 322, 323, 328, 331, 332, 335, 339, 344, 345, 347, 355, 357, 358, 362, 374, - 1 more
[10:13:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> woah, yall snuck up on me
[10:13:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, chilly
[10:13:52] <crutchy> it was a gorgeous day today
[10:14:00] <crutchy> cooled down a bit this arvo
[10:14:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, chilly is good. cold can suck ef's extender though.
[10:14:57] <crutchy> yeah i'm not a fan of cold
[10:15:06] <crutchy> summer is coming up soon. can't wait :)
[10:15:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> danged backwards weirdos. you prolly go surfing on christmas too.
[10:16:10] <crutchy> could do but i'm not much a fan of the beach
[10:16:32] <crutchy> when we take the kids there i mostly dig in the sand
[10:16:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> bury the wife?
[10:16:46] <crutchy> lol
[10:17:11] <crutchy> she'd still talk her way out of it
[10:17:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh come on, it's fun. make a project of it with the kids.
[10:17:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> then conveniently forget to undig her later when you leave
[10:17:43] <crutchy> she's always admitted that her volume control is broken
[10:18:07] <crutchy> so whenever she starts yapping my ears shut down
[10:18:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahh, couldn't wander out of range and pretend not to hear then?
[10:18:15] <crutchy> lol
[10:18:31] <crutchy> lucky for me i have god's greatest gift to men... selective deafness
[10:18:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> hmm?
[10:19:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> me, i just let anything i don't deem important fall right out the other ear to save brain ram
[10:21:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> i hear everything and if you ask me within one minute i can repeat it back but nothing trivial makes it out of cache into ram or disk unless it's also nerdy like trek trivia
[10:22:26] <crutchy> hmm yeah and sometimes the process becomes slow and/or crashes
[10:22:37] <crutchy> so its not our fault
[10:22:46] <crutchy> its just our brainpyewtas
[10:23:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> mine of course is mostly stuffed full of code n trek n pr0n. just like my real computer.
[10:25:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm, fishing's sposed to be best after noon but i don't wanna go sit in the heat for hours.
[10:25:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> may have to go this morning and just not catch stuff
[10:26:02] <crutchy> here fishing is often just an excuse for drinking without the nagging wife
[10:26:10] <crutchy> or kids
[10:30:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> you could have left off the word "here"
[10:31:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> fortunately i don't have either though. fishing is an excuse for me to not work on the site.
[10:32:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... i could pick up a sammich and take a gallon of water and not have to stop fishing for like eight hours or so.
[10:33:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> my ideas are intriguing to me and i wish to subscribe to my newsletter
[10:36:28] <crutchy> !grab TheMightyBuzzard
[10:36:28] <Bender> Added quote 777
[10:36:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> easy to remember number too
[10:37:06] <crutchy> need to be able to read the quotes file
[10:37:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> which. there's one for each channel i believe.
[10:37:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> and... THEY'RE XML!!!
[10:37:57] <crutchy> hmm. could MrPlow read them?
[10:37:58] <crutchy> oh
[10:38:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> prolly, i don't think the file perms are too restrictive.
[10:38:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> 644 most likely
[10:39:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> i refuse to write an xml parser, or even use one, in rust though
[10:41:08] <chromas> shouldn't they be json?
[10:41:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> fuck yes they should. they're not though.
[10:41:24] <chromas> Bender's the "json bot"
[10:41:44] <chromas> maybe rewrite the quote system to use json then :D
[10:42:08] <chromas> python++ # <:)
[10:42:08] <Bender> karma - python: -9
[10:42:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'what happens when good people code python. start with that bad decision and keep making them.
[10:42:18] <chromas> Bender: grab TheMightyBuzzard
[10:42:18] <Bender> Added quote 778
[10:45:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... just about enough time to grab another smoke, load up, and make it to the fishing hole just before sunrise.
[10:45:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> off i fuck
[11:16:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Questions For The Candidates - http://sylnt.us - riddle-me-this-batman
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[12:55:35] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Melatonin Controls the Singing of Midshipman Fish - http://sylnt.us - sleepy-time
[13:22:54] <crutchy> ah fuck. i forgot my wiki password again :|
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[14:09:26] zz_janrinok is now known as janrinok
[14:09:48] <janrinok> ~gday crutchy - try "crutchy"
[14:09:50] * exec proverbially slides a fistful of extract of swamp ass to crutchy
[14:10:24] * janrinok is just trying to help
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[14:47:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Google to Launch its Own Wi-Fi Router (Again!) - http://sylnt.us - it's-all-beta-until-it-gets-cancelled
[15:14:52] janrinok is now known as janrinok_afk
[16:36:24] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Meet the Winners of This Year's Ig Nobel Prizes - http://sylnt.us - dy-no-mite!
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[18:16:41] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Chelsea Manning Sentenced to Solitary Confinement for Suicide Attempt - http://sylnt.us - prison-isn't-easy
[18:25:37] <snookums> ARRGHHH
[18:25:39] <snookums> TROOLSSS
[18:25:41] snookums is now known as sea
[18:25:46] <sea> They annoy me so!
[18:28:23] <mecctro_> Trools can be annoying
[18:30:14] <sea> Is it even trolling if they're not speaking english?
[18:31:01] <sea> It's english, but it's devoid of meaning. None of the words used have definitions in that context.
[18:31:29] <swiss> i work with a guy who testified against manning
[18:31:55] <sea> Another suicide attempt?
[18:32:01] <swiss> interesting stuff - groups like 4chan and all harrassed the shit out of him to where he doesn't use his real name online anymroe
[18:33:21] <mecctro_> more e-mobs
[18:38:14] <sea> Is there a poll on whether manning was in the right or not?
[18:52:41] <janrinok> sea, I haven't seen one
[18:53:51] <sea> We have technology that can store classified military stuff in such a way that it is publicly released n years later.
[18:54:04] <sea> I saw a paper on it. Timed release cryptography or something like that.
[18:54:41] <sea> If a poll said that the majority of USAians think it was morally right, then maybe the US govt can ask the military to insert all documents into such a system from now on, with a 50-year timer or something
[18:54:52] <janrinok> true, but it also needs the authority of the person/org who created the classified material in the first place.
[18:55:07] <sea> Just require it as part of standard operating procedure.
[18:55:42] <sea> There must be some way to bake it into the military systems so that no-one can get around it
[18:55:44] <janrinok> there are parts of what happened during the Cuban Crisis in the 60s which are still classified today, because they indicate how a government might react
[18:56:04] <sea> Oh, I see what you're saying
[18:56:23] <sea> No, the timed release thing is encrypted in such a way that the decryption key becomes public as a natural consequence of the passage of time
[18:56:29] <janrinok> if your threat of nuclear retaliation is not credible, then it is not a threat
[18:56:30] <swiss> also, certain operations are intentionally kept quiet because they could cause civil unrest if released
[18:56:43] <swiss> or, say, location of our nuclear warheads
[18:56:47] <janrinok> exactly
[18:56:52] <sea> I know where your nuke warheads are
[18:56:54] <sea> I KNOW
[18:57:00] <sea> I just looked for all the blurry spots on google photos
[18:57:04] <swiss> in 50 years, they'll prob still be there, but it still shouldn't be released
[18:57:20] <sea> hmm
[18:57:31] <sea> Well then if it shouldn't be released, manning really should be in jail for releasing stuff
[18:57:52] <swiss> Manning is in jail for violating his duty and the laws surrounding it
[18:57:55] <janrinok> well, in all probability they do, but what would our response be if we thought that they were being threatened by conventional means? Would we go nuclear, or try to maintain the conventional stance?
[18:58:17] <swiss> you don't decide if someone goes to jail based on if you ethically believe what they did was right/wrong
[18:59:07] <swiss> if we all simply behaved based on what we thought was right or wrong, rather than following the structure of the laws (and combatting the laws, when you think they're inappropriate), we'd have a ton of issues
[18:59:19] <janrinok> well the law about official secrets does not allow you to make ethical judgements. If you accept them (which he/she did) you are expected to obey them. Not saying it is right or wrong, but there is no legal grey area
[18:59:41] <swiss> if you decide to break a law because you believe it is the morally right thing to do, you should know the consequences, and be ready to face them
[19:00:08] <janrinok> same can be applied to Snowden - despite his justification, which many people accept and acknowledge
[19:00:14] <swiss> otherwise you're just saying your opinion is righter than someone else's, and that your opinion should matter more than laws that were created based off a majority opinion
[19:00:34] <swiss> With Snowden, with *some* of the data he released, there's a bit more gray area, because he was reporting illegal activity
[19:00:52] <sea> pft, majority opinion. Laws are written by a handful of people and pushed through without the public's knowledge
[19:01:07] <swiss> majority opinion by those elected by a majority opinion
[19:01:11] <janrinok> but the law regarding secrets doesn't allow you to compromise them despite the morale right that he believed that he had
[19:02:06] <swiss> No government is perfect, but if we let individual opinions take prescedence over majority opinions, we cannot operate smoothly
[19:02:15] <janrinok> the problem with Snowden is that he tried the authorised route to raise his concerns and was ignored/told to drop it. He had no other options left
[19:02:21] <swiss> what if every soldier decided whether or not to participate in every battle exercise?
[19:03:04] <swiss> That's effectively what Snowden did - He went and told foreign governments (the enemy) about the actions his "team" was making, because he disagreed with them on an ethical level
[19:03:09] <sea> The soldiers should do that. They should walk home if they don't like it
[19:03:17] <janrinok> which is why, once you qualify as a service man, any refusal to take part in a battle is considered cowardice or mutiny, depending on how many people take part
[19:03:23] <swiss> janrinok: I would have rather seen an attempt to leak to congress first
[19:03:28] <swiss> rather than news agencies
[19:03:56] <swiss> sea: and then the brainwashed religious zealots win, because we refuse to organise?
[19:04:10] <janrinok> so would I, but there is no guarantee that he wouldn't have been arrested for that act and the congressmen whom he spoke to told never to repeat what he had said
[19:04:19] <sea> If religious zealots are attacking, soldiers will naturally self-organize.
[19:04:49] <swiss> janrinok: right, i just mean "run to russia after sending a mass email to the HoR and Senate with the evidence he sent to the newspaper"
[19:05:08] <swiss> it would have contained the breach
[19:05:22] <janrinok> As a former officer, I had to be prepared to order my men into harms way and to expect them to die attempting whatever task I had given them - along with myself, of course
[19:05:32] <swiss> he also dumped info about foreign affairs (spying on germany, etc) which is totally within the mission statement of the NSA
[19:05:42] <swiss> and he was like "Nah, I don't agree with this"
[19:06:19] <janrinok> I have to know that those that I command will do as they are told, and they have to know that I wouldn't ask them to do something that was unnecessary
[19:06:42] <swiss> janrinok: and that if it seems unnecessary, that they still will do it.
[19:06:53] <swiss> regardless of personal feelings
[19:07:28] <janrinok> well they should, but I personally would have justified why we had to do it during the mission briefing if it was at all contentious. That is how you can build trust.
[19:07:43] <swiss> sea: also, realize, he effectively exposed the battle plans to the enemy. Didn't just say "I'm going to stay home," but released battle plans to the other side.
[19:07:54] <sea> What other side?
[19:07:59] <janrinok> if time doesn't permit such things, they know that I would have already justified it to myself
[19:08:02] <sea> Are you at war with Eurasia?
[19:08:14] <swiss> the NSA is
[19:08:39] <swiss> and don't fool yourself into thinking it's all peaceful and we don't spy on people (and they don't spy on us) just because we aren't shooting each other
[19:08:51] <sea> Well nobody told me there was another side. Do the people on the other side know that they're 'the other side'?
[19:09:27] <janrinok> In the intelligence world, it is not so much a case of define plans, but techniques and operations that are compromised. If the enemy know that you have cracked a code, they will change it. If they think that it is still secure, they might continue to use it
[19:09:42] <janrinok> defined*
[19:10:32] <janrinok> if they know what your capabilities are, and equally what you cannot do, they can exploit that information and leave you with less than you had before
[19:10:55] <swiss> "The National Security Agency/Central Security Service (NSA/CSS) leads the U.S. Government in cryptology that encompasses both Signals Intelligence (SIGINT) and Information Assurance (IA) products and services, and enables Computer Network Operations (CNO) in order to gain a decision advantage for the Nation and our allies under all circumstances.
[19:11:29] <sea> I don't think another war is actually even possible. There's so much feedback and global communication that we're entered a very stable state. Militaries can spy all they want, but it's pointless. They're not at war, and they couldn't get the people to fight each other no matter how hard they tried. The feedback stabilizing force is far too strong
[19:11:47] <swiss> Iran is actively attacking our econmy
[19:11:48] <sea> If there is 'another side' it's composed entirely of those IED-wielding guys in the desert
[19:11:50] <swiss> economy*
[19:11:59] <janrinok> sea, I'll have to disagree on that point.
[19:12:03] <swiss> I work security in the financial sector, at a large bank
[19:12:12] <swiss> and they are actively attempting to take down our banking systems
[19:12:37] <swiss> The battlefield isn't exactly the same, but we're still at war.
[19:12:49] <sea> The computers are at war, then?
[19:12:53] <sea> but the people aren't.
[19:12:57] <janrinok> the Russians knew exactly how far they could push us when they invaded Ukraine. They knew that we would do everything short of military action. They win
[19:13:22] <janrinok> They know exactly how far they can push us in the Baltic states too
[19:13:43] <swiss> Say we knew that Russia is tentatively trying to prop up a government in a country we're allies with that would ally that country with them
[19:13:47] <sea> All that Russian stuff are just insignificant oscillations about our attractor.
[19:14:03] <swiss> and that they would abandon it if the family wasn't easily bought
[19:14:09] <janrinok> If they annex 10 square miles of one of the Baltic states will the west take military action? How about 20 square miles? 50, 100?
[19:14:16] <swiss> we throw a bit of money at the family, because we know how much russia is planning to offer, and we win
[19:14:46] <sea> Does anyone even CARE if Russia annexes some region? The people get new passports and their lives are EXACTLY THE SAME
[19:14:59] <janrinok> tell that to the people in Ukraine
[19:15:08] <swiss> With NK, they know how much nuclear testing they can do before we actually engage them
[19:15:29] <swiss> They know how shitty they can treat their citizens before we call them out
[19:15:30] <janrinok> anyway, I've got to go. CU guys tomorrow
[19:15:33] <sea> janrinok: The people of Ukraine don't care. Only the govt' does.
[19:15:43] <swiss> go ask the ukranians. I think they'll disagree
[19:15:51] <swiss> i'm off as well actually
[19:16:19] <janrinok> There are a lot of people in the Crimean Peninsular who don't agree with that sea
[19:16:41] <sea> Yeah, right. We all know that the vast majority of people couldn't even name their own government ministers. They don't care what's going on political-wise.
[19:16:44] <janrinok> they had invested a lot of money in a new tourist trade - and now it has all gone
[19:17:04] <janrinok> and they are back under Russian rule again
[19:17:41] janrinok is now known as zz_janrinok
[19:57:21] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Amazon Has Been Fined £65,000 for Trying to Fly Dangerous Goods in Europe - http://sylnt.us - you-can't-do-that
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[21:35:12] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Goodbye Snapchat, Hello Snap Inc - http://sylnt.us - all-this-and-democracy-too
[22:11:17] <pinchy> those glasses look cool as hell https://techcrunch.com
[22:11:23] <MontyPascal> ^ 03Snapchat?s 10 second video glasses are real and cost $130 | TechCrunch
[23:16:29] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Vint Cerf's Dream Do-Over: 2 Ways He'd Make the Internet Different - http://sylnt.us - if-only-I-could-do-it-over