#Soylent | Logs for 2015-09-05
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[00:01:53] <SpallsHurgenson> not to mention his very own planet
[00:02:39] <JamesNZ> Yday-o jrrnv
[00:03:23] <SpallsHurgenson> !translate JamesNZ -English
[00:04:55] <crutchy> SpallsHurgenson, my wife says that's a pretty accurate description :D
[00:05:07] <SpallsHurgenson> crutchy: lol
[00:05:09] <crutchy> bbl
[00:05:34] <SpallsHurgenson> going to the mall... with kids... I don't envy crutchy
[00:06:50] <SpallsHurgenson> although honestly, I can't remember the last time I went to a shopping mall
[00:07:22] <SpallsHurgenson> I remember the place being filled with annoying, smelly, loud teenagers.
[00:07:41] <SpallsHurgenson> (they were probably all making plans on how best to trample my lawn!)
[00:15:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> .kickban gravis you need to be fucking off now
[00:15:11] -!- mode/#Soylent [+b *!*@bi53-240-819-373.dc.dc.cox.net] by Imogen
[00:15:11] -!- Gravis was kicked from #Soylent by Imogen!Imogen@imogen.dusty.attic [(TheMightyBuzzard) you need to be fucking off now]
[00:15:26] <SpallsHurgenson> o_0
[00:15:30] <SpallsHurgenson> that came out of nowhere
[00:15:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> scroll up
[00:15:38] <Bytram> I had the same thought
[00:16:01] <Bytram> maybe after a conversation on a PM?
[00:16:33] <SpallsHurgenson> personally, I blame Microsoft
[00:16:44] <Bytram> that's usually a safe bet.
[00:17:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, him talking about filing a frivolous lawsuit with the goal of draining our funds.
[00:17:28] <SpallsHurgenson> I'm too lazy to check the logs, but odds are gravis was moaning about ACs on soylent again and it took the ops a while to notice :)
[00:17:33] <SpallsHurgenson> or that :)
[00:18:08] <SpallsHurgenson> "I want to make soylent better by getting rid of the ACs... so I'll sue the site to oblvion to get my way!" ?
[00:18:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> basically
[00:18:20] <SpallsHurgenson> sort of a "we needed to burn down the village to save it" thing?
[00:18:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'what SJWs do
[00:19:31] <Bytram> I recognize the IPID and must admit that, at times, s/he gets me riled up... but OTOH, has made some insightful comments, as well. So, let the mods do their thing and take things as they come
[00:20:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup, not putting his ipid into the site ban doowhackus but he needs to not be around me realtime until he gets better manners.
[00:21:05] <SpallsHurgenson> I'm almost tempted to go back and read the logs :)
[00:21:43] <Bytram> I was referring to the ipid of the AC that had apparently gotten gravis' knickers in a twist
[00:21:46] <SpallsHurgenson> personally, I prefer /ignore since it tends to aggravate trolls more than actual retaliation :)
[00:23:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> he's not a troll, he's a true believer
[00:23:18] <SpallsHurgenson> his problem isn't really with the ACs, since he admits that he reads at a reasonably high moderation level. His problem is that other (registered) people think some of the ACs comments are worth discussing
[00:23:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep and dissent can't be tolerated
[00:24:08] <SpallsHurgenson> ACs usually say awful things, but sometimes awful things need to be said... even if just to remind us they are awful :)
[00:24:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> the vast majority of our users are ACs
[00:24:52] <SpallsHurgenson> ban 'em all! :)
[00:25:22] <SpallsHurgenson> Soylentgravis.org for the win :)
[00:25:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> rather just ban him but it'd just encourage him
[00:25:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> yar
[00:26:11] <SpallsHurgenson> mind you, discussions about the validity of AC contributions are useful too...
[00:26:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> sure, in the comments.
[00:28:20] <SpallsHurgenson> (listening to a tennis game played in the background doesn't sound too different from porn in the background... Ah! aaaaaah! Mmmmmf!"
[00:28:30] <SpallsHurgenson> (maybe slightly better music :)
[00:35:36] -!- Ethanol-fueled [Ethanol-fueled!~Ethanol-f@ka52-830-964-802.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #Soylent
[00:35:44] -!- Ethanol-fueled has quit [Changing host]
[00:35:44] -!- Ethanol-fueled [Ethanol-fueled!~Ethanol-f@SectorZeroZeroOne] has joined #Soylent
[00:35:51] * Ethanol-fueled reads logs.
[00:36:07] <Ethanol-fueled> Wow, I'm not the only guy here to have been banned from #soylent before.
[00:36:14] <Ethanol-fueled> Since the Khyber days.
[00:38:39] <Bytram> I remember that... 'interesting' times, indeed.
[00:39:12] <Ethanol-fueled> what speifically was his complaint? did some AC threaten his life or family or something?
[00:39:23] <Ethanol-fueled> gravis, I mean.
[00:39:52] <Bytram> ~time UTC
[00:39:53] <exec> Saturday, 5 September 2015 @ 12:39 am GMT - Greenwich Mean Time
[00:40:22] <SpallsHurgenson> why can't we have nice time?
[00:40:32] <Bytram> ~time nice
[00:40:34] <exec> Saturday, 5 September 2015 @ 2:40 am GMT+2 - Nice, France
[00:40:41] <SpallsHurgenson> <groan>
[00:40:41] <Bytram> ask and ya shall receive!
[00:41:10] <JamesNZ> Tada!
[00:41:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> Ethanol-fueled, he just hates ACs
[00:41:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> the reason changes every time you ask him
[00:42:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> afk, store run
[00:43:34] <Ethanol-fueled> Like it's so hard to filter people at zero out.
[00:43:35] <JamesNZ> I bet they smell funny.
[00:44:39] <Ethanol-fueled> I don't really give a shit about AC's, honestly. With ToR and other shit like that it's trivial to make a dummy account if anything super sekrit has to be posted.
[00:44:50] <Ethanol-fueled> With the added bonus that the account will start at +1 rather than zero.
[00:45:02] <SpallsHurgenson> I've said it before and I'll say it again: modern OCR software is awesome
[00:45:10] <Ethanol-fueled> Dickheads gonna dickhead.
[00:45:37] <Bytram> SpallsHurgenson: are you using proprietary or free OCR?
[00:45:40] <JamesNZ> OCR?
[00:45:44] -!- Ethanol-fueled has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[00:45:48] <SpallsHurgenson> Bytram: the free crap, that's what's so cool
[00:45:54] <Bytram> off-color reproduction
[00:46:02] <Bytram> ;)
[00:46:03] <SpallsHurgenson> no, optical character recognition
[00:46:11] <Bytram> Optical Character Recognition
[00:46:15] <JamesNZ> Ah.
[00:46:24] <Bytram> SpallsHurgenson: which 'free crap
[00:46:38] <SpallsHurgenson> I remember using a commercial OCR package in the early 90s... it only worked with ceratin fonts, at certain resolutions, and if the stars were right
[00:47:02] <SpallsHurgenson> now I just press a button and it translates the most awfully scanned images into real text. Its awesome
[00:47:07] <Bytram> and don't tilt that page on the scanner bed At All!
[00:47:20] <SpallsHurgenson> Bytram: whatever is included in this freebie PDF reader.
[00:47:21] <Bytram> which ocr package are you using.
[00:47:26] <Bytram> lol
[00:47:34] <Bytram> and whichfreebie pdf reader are you using
[00:47:43] <SpallsHurgenson> I mean, if this stuff works so well I can't imagine what a REAL OCR package can do
[00:47:46] * Bytram hums there's a hole in my bucket
[00:48:17] <SpallsHurgenson> PDF XChange, apparently (I had to open another instance to figure out what it was called :)
[00:48:25] <Bytram> LOL!
[00:48:46] <Bytram> "<alt>, Help, About... " didn't work?
[00:49:08] <SpallsHurgenson> the current instance is sort of busy OCRing a 300 page PDF :)
[00:49:29] <Bytram> oh. doh!
[00:49:49] <SpallsHurgenson> which is another awesome thing. "Back in the day", you had to OCR everything manually, page by page
[00:50:06] <SpallsHurgenson> now it's just, click... wait... done!
[00:50:19] <SpallsHurgenson> I /LOVE/ living in the future
[00:50:48] <Bytram> wait a sec... if it's a PDF, can't you just export the text from it? Or is it one of those PDFs that contains scanned images of pages?
[00:51:04] <SpallsHurgenson> I feel sorry for kids who don't really realize how awesome it is :)
[00:51:14] <SpallsHurgenson> no, its scans of old stuff.
[00:51:21] <Bytram> nod nod
[00:51:33] * SpallsHurgenson denies he is archiving old issues of mens magazines
[00:52:04] <SpallsHurgenson> (but if I were, all this OCR would give creedence to my claims that I'm just interested in 'em for the articles :)
[00:52:28] <Bytram> my favorite articles are: "a", "and", and "the"!
[00:52:42] <Bytram> s/and/an/
[00:52:44] <exec> <Bytram> my favorite articles are: "a", "an", and "the"!
[00:54:07] <SpallsHurgenson> argh, grammer :) :)
[00:54:20] <Bytram> aye, matry!
[00:54:25] <Bytram> s/r/e/
[00:54:26] <exec> <Bytram> aye, matey!
[00:54:53] <SpallsHurgenson> oh, c'mon, nobody wants to correct me on that so-obvious misspelling?
[00:55:07] <Bytram> 'xactly
[00:55:38] <SpallsHurgenson> sory, mispelling :)
[00:56:30] <SpallsHurgenson> <sigh> I'll never be a successful troll. Maybe it's all these damn smileys that are giving it away, ya think? :)
[01:04:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> prolly, yeah
[01:04:33] -!- arti [arti!~arti@cwz-693-36-504-71.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #Soylent
[01:04:33] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v arti] by Imogen
[01:06:04] -!- artificial has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
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[01:24:05] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - New, Ultrathin Optical Devices Shape Light in Exotic Ways - http://sylnt.us - engage-the-cloaking-device
[01:25:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> no booze tonight, it's all about caffeine.
[01:26:44] <Bytram> gives new meaning to "The Might BUZZard"
[01:27:14] <cmn32480> oh my... the kids must be gone
[01:34:27] <SpallsHurgenson> break out the booze, drugs and hookers!
[01:35:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, that's how i got the buzz bit of the nick to begin with is that being my baseline state many many years ago
[01:36:31] <Bytram> Really? Huh! How about that!
[01:38:38] <cmn32480> lay on the couch with Hookers and Blow
[01:38:43] <cmn32480> they are my cats
[01:39:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> those are epic cat names
[01:40:30] <cmn32480> you think I named them that by accident?
[01:42:34] <Bytram> had relative that inherited a farm. they had two cats. Named them 'Flip' and 'Flop'. Flip was a lean, mean, mousing machine. Flop didn't care AT ALL which you held him, was entirely content if you wanted to hold it upside down with one hand under the small of its back with all four legs splayed to the sky!
[01:43:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, submission rejection reasons are in on dev. break em if ya can when you get time.
[01:44:07] <Bytram> appreciate the heads up; am working every day this weekend (LABOR day, right?)... might be a while, but I'll do what I can.
[01:44:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> but for the record, i don't care if they can display utf8 properly. đź’©is not a proper reason.
[01:44:54] <Bytram> rats, I forgot to install extra fonts for HexChat when I moved to Win 7 Pro
[01:45:05] <Bytram> which ones are you using these days?
[01:45:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> same old same old
[01:45:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> actually no, using liberation sans
[01:46:37] <Bytram> Ill have to remember that
[01:48:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, that's right, i have You Give Love a Bad Name on repeat
[01:54:28] <Deucalion> mrcoolbp, no worries. I just thought recent subs may get nose out of joint if the amount moved but not the "last updated" date. No biggie, just an oversight.
[02:00:58] <Deucalion> Fuck me.. applying for jobs sucks..... "Dear Candidate" response - that is appalling... did the not study letter writing basics 101 at school? When and when not to use Dear, Regards, Sincerely etc.? It would be better phrased as "Oi slave"... fuck that.
[02:02:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> HR drones?
[02:08:40] * SpallsHurgenson has an image of the HR department flying drones over everybody's cube making sure everyone is working to standards
[02:09:49] <SpallsHurgenson> (perhaps with a built-in printer for citations. "<BZZZZT> Off-color joke could be construed as Sexual Harrasment."
[02:09:59] <SpallsHurgenson> now I'm gonna have nightmares :)
[02:10:22] <Deucalion> worse - recruitment agents, fucking parasites. I'm done kow-towing to these bitches, get me the interview, I'll get the job, they get their commission for doing fuck all other than being rent-seeking parasite middle-men, they will should think themselves lucky to get out of the deal alive. I fucking hate parasites.
[02:11:15] * SpallsHurgenson imagines they have drones too... with little vacuums to suck away your money :)
[02:11:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> you know, i think that's the first time i've seen you legit crabby.
[02:13:45] <Deucalion> TheMightyBuzzard, me?
[02:14:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup, you're normally all british stiff-upper-lip and such.
[02:18:11] <Deucalion> TheMightyBuzzard, even Brits have a breaking point. We just tend to flex until the "snap" happens - it's all polite and calm right up until the point it is not - at which point you don't want to be in the line of fire - berserker ensues past that point.
[02:19:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> zero to football hooligan in 5.2 seconds then. check.
[02:21:46] <Deucalion> Wasn't football hooliganism an 80s / 90s thing?
[02:22:13] <Bytram|away> g'night everyone!
[02:22:26] <Deucalion> Night Bytram|away
[02:22:30] <Deucalion> Be well
[02:22:46] <Bytram|away> Deucalion: job hunting generally is a pain no matter what. My heart goes out to you and I wish you the best of luck!
[02:22:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> dunno. you lot tend to save anything you really like for hundreds of years though.
[02:23:27] <Deucalion> Bytram|away, thank you. Now sleep well.
[02:23:37] <Bytram|away> the difference between an american and a brit is that a brit things 100 miles is a LONG ways and an american think 100 years is really OLD!
[02:23:45] <cmn32480> ~gnight Bytram|away
[02:23:46] * exec suspiciously offers an anvil of bewb to Bytram|away
[02:23:51] <Bytram|away> hint taken.
[02:24:09] <Deucalion> Sleep is good!
[02:25:18] <cmn32480> now that Bytram|away is gone
[02:25:28] * cmn32480 hands out cold beer to all
[02:25:29] <Deucalion> TheMightyBuzzard, what do you mean by " you lot tend to save anything you really like for hundreds of years though." - Elgin marbles or something? wut......
[02:27:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> Deucalion, castles, street layouts, royalty, you know...
[02:29:20] <cmn32480> dunno... castles are cool
[02:29:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> well yeah, not especially useful though.
[02:30:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> unless you're right up near Scotland anyway. you never know with them guys.
[02:30:40] <cmn32480> yeah... but they make good liquor
[02:30:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> truth
[02:31:35] <Deucalion> TheMightyBuzzard, no, I don't know..... you're making little sense. Castles - yes we have those - artefacts that speak to their time, street layouts - yes we have those, a nightmare in many towns as they pre-date powered transport, Royalty - yeh we have that, they have no power, they were neutered a long time back and no serve as a tourist attraction.... what point are you trying to make?
[02:31:47] <crutchy> lol @ tmb
[02:31:56] <crutchy> you kickbanned gravis!
[02:31:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> Deucalion, no point, just blathering.
[02:32:14] <crutchy> he would be proud for your use of force :p
[02:32:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, i don't care for threats to file frivolous lawsuits against us, veiled or not.
[02:32:35] <crutchy> heh
[02:32:55] * SpallsHurgenson is jealous; I never get that sort of attention from TMB :)
[02:32:57] <crutchy> to be fair i was kinda taunting him a bit
[02:33:19] * TheMightyBuzzard shrugs
[02:33:53] <crutchy> only thing that creeps me out is the final solution thing he goes on about the other day
[02:34:06] <crutchy> that's kinda hitler 2.0 there
[02:34:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> hmm?
[02:34:33] <Deucalion> TheMightyBuzzard, you KB'd someone rather than just kick?
[02:34:40] <crutchy> maybe he wasn't serious. dunno. it was creepy coming from a socialist
[02:34:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> Deucalion, yep.
[02:35:05] <Deucalion> why?
[02:35:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, he was serious. he believes this shiz.
[02:35:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> Deucalion, making veiled threats to file bogus lawsuits to shut the site down by making us spend up our funds if we don't do things his way.
[02:36:19] <Deucalion> TheMightyBuzzard, and a KB from IRC would prevent that how?
[02:36:41] <Deucalion> Think man
[02:36:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> wouldn't but it would keep me from overreacting
[02:37:05] <Deucalion> You already did
[02:37:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're the irc honcho, your call.
[02:38:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> .op
[02:38:30] -!- mode/#Soylent [+o TheMightyBuzzard] by Imogen
[02:38:48] -!- mode/#Soylent [-b *!*@bi53-240-819-373.dc.dc.cox.net] by TheMightyBuzzard
[02:38:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> .deop
[02:38:56] -!- mode/#Soylent [-o TheMightyBuzzard] by Imogen
[02:39:40] <SpallsHurgenson> <sigh>
[02:39:50] <cmn32480> you feeling unloved SpallsHurgenson ?
[02:40:07] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard, what would we do without at least one resident diehard socialist?
[02:40:13] <crutchy> .socialist TheMightyBuzzard
[02:40:14] <exec> TheMightyBuzzard, YOU'RE a SOCIALIST!
[02:40:18] <Deucalion> I was just saying yesterday that SN will never censure speech, and you of all people applies a ban on someone because they say something you disagree with. wtf, where are you on this?
[02:40:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> ;socialist crutchy
[02:40:20] <MrPlow> crutchy, you're a socialist!
[02:40:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> speech is fine, threats are not so much
[02:41:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> no legal system on the planet okays threats, no matter how liberal.
[02:41:10] <Deucalion> empty threats are vacuous speech.... grow up
[02:42:07] <crutchy> Deucalion, but gravis would be proud of the way tmb handled the situation... exactly the way he would have :p
[02:42:37] * crutchy ducks the impending flying anvil
[02:43:41] <crutchy> damn that toboulli wasn't big enough :<
[02:43:53] <crutchy> tabbouleh++
[02:43:53] <Bender> karma - tabbouleh: 1
[02:44:17] * crutchy has forgoted haw too spel
[02:46:40] <SpallsHurgenson> yur grammer isnt to good eether
[02:47:23] <cmn32480> as SN is a PBC, is our subscription tax deductible?
[02:48:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> you know, i have no idea. if you have an accountant it wouldn't hurt to ask though.
[02:48:29] <cmn32480> my accountant's name is Turbotax!
[02:50:08] <cmn32480> he only tells me that I am gonna get a check from Uncle Sam for $x dollars each year
[02:50:23] <cmn32480> (with x varying from year to year)
[02:53:31] <cmn32480> is it just lazy that I am RDP'd into my desktop from my laptop because I didn't want to switch the USB cable? they are at the same desk on the same monitors
[02:54:07] * cmn32480 also wonders if his time for SN is tax deductible as volunteer work....
[02:54:10] <crutchy> cmn32480, as long as it doesn't turn into -$x
[02:54:20] <cmn32480> 3 kids
[02:54:37] <cmn32480> 2 mortgages (of different houses)
[02:54:47] <Deucalion> crutchy, I don't give a shit what Gravis may or not think, proud or not. Irrelevant here. We do not censure for thought crime or speech. TMB stepped out of that to impose a ban on an idea - no matter how repulsive, all ideas should be heard and debated, not closed down unilaterally - that way leads to revolution.
[02:54:53] <cmn32480> I am pretty sure I'll be getting a refund for a while
[02:54:55] * crutchy got 2 usb hubs for fathers day. do i get extra geek cred?
[02:55:13] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Edible Insects: How would you like your meal(worms)? - http://sylnt.us - chocolate-covered-grasshoppers
[02:55:38] <crutchy> Deucalion, fair enough. i'm a libertarian so the thought of forcing anything disgusts me. viva la resistance! :D
[02:55:43] <cmn32480> crutchy - I have the keyboard and mouse in a hub
[02:55:51] <cmn32480> there are 2 extension cables
[02:56:01] <cmn32480> 1 goes to the tower, the other to my laptop docking station
[02:56:16] <takyon> plug in the usb hub into the usb hub
[02:56:17] <cmn32480> the cables are very literally, less than an inch apart
[02:56:19] <takyon> chain that shit
[02:56:52] <takyon> then plug all of that into a new macbook with the 1 usb-c port
[02:57:12] <crutchy> Deucalion, it was kindof a funny conversation. unfortunately i was only half paying attention cos i was writing a script while chatting
[02:57:13] <cmn32480> you had me right up to the macbook thing
[02:57:56] <Deucalion> crutchy, I dare you to define "libertarian"
[02:58:15] <crutchy> whenever someone asks me that i generally reply "ron paul"
[02:58:24] <takyon> ron paul revolution
[02:58:44] <takyon> rand is so screwed
[02:59:05] <takyon> he got beat down at that debate, and he was already floundering weeks before that
[02:59:08] <crutchy> i think rand is trying to play the game, but the game goes entirely against his principles
[02:59:23] <crutchy> ron was the same. if you're not corrupt, you're not electable
[02:59:25] <takyon> yeah like that GIF of him watching netanyahu talk
[02:59:40] <Deucalion> Deflection..... crutchy, I asked you to define it not pass it off.
[03:00:12] <crutchy> i can try, but often people misunderstand or misconstrue
[03:00:15] <takyon> a libertarian is basically an anarchist
[03:00:20] <crutchy> not really
[03:00:26] <crutchy> government has purpose
[03:00:45] <takyon> but anarchy doesn't mean "no government now"
[03:00:47] <crutchy> libertarianism is about limited government, and not using government force
[03:00:59] <takyon> it means working towards no government at some unspecified time in the future
[03:01:19] <crutchy> takyon, heh. i never heard that. but i'm not an anarchist so :p
[03:01:39] <takyon> well it's the soft anarchy
[03:02:05] <takyon> anarchy: absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.
[03:02:17] <takyon> you don't live the ideal, you pursue the ideal
[03:02:44] <crutchy> the other thing i like about ron paul is his economic policy. keynesianism is destroying the world. capitalism is getting squashed by the fat arse of socialism and political corruption
[03:03:23] <takyon> capitalism is gonna get kneecapped by its inequality problem
[03:03:25] <crutchy> everyone seems to blame wall street for paying off politicians, but they seem to ignore the fact that the politicians accepted the payoffs
[03:03:33] <Deucalion> crutchy, takyon - let's short circuit the how we get from A to B. What is your utopia?
[03:03:53] <SpallsHurgenson> capitalism is getting squashed?
[03:03:54] <crutchy> my utopia is my family
[03:04:10] <crutchy> the rest can go to hell for all i care :p
[03:04:12] <cmn32480> z ckvb,k.jlnb
[03:04:20] <cmn32480> sorry
[03:04:26] <cmn32480> hooker jumped on the keyboard
[03:04:36] <crutchy> your pussy?
[03:04:37] <cmn32480> Note: Hooker is the cat
[03:04:41] <crutchy> lol
[03:04:47] * Deucalion sighs
[03:04:51] <cmn32480> the other one is Blow
[03:05:21] <cmn32480> so I get to lay on the couch with hooker adn 15lbs of blow
[03:05:23] <takyon> robots kill capitalism... because some people have a lot of capital to start out with. normally they would turn their capital/resources into goods and services using workers. but with robots you cut the worker out... increasing inequality if nothing is done to correct the trend
[03:05:24] <crutchy> what's your utopia Deucalion ?
[03:05:53] <crutchy> takyon, a lot of inequality stems from government and political privelige
[03:05:56] <crutchy> patents for example
[03:06:10] <takyon> who amasses patents
[03:06:20] <crutchy> competition is the great leveller
[03:06:26] <takyon> big companies, and companies made for the sole purpose of buying/selling/exploiting patents
[03:06:33] <takyon> aka, large capitalists
[03:06:38] <crutchy> when its stifled by force, you get monopolies
[03:06:39] <takyon> but back to utopia
[03:06:53] <crutchy> only government can use force
[03:07:01] <crutchy> yeah utopia is more fun
[03:07:05] <crutchy> fuck politics
[03:07:11] <takyon> capitalists are government. it's all bought and paid for
[03:07:18] <crutchy> err
[03:07:27] <crutchy> that's kinda an oxymoron :p
[03:07:59] <crutchy> capitalism and government are mutually exclusive by definition
[03:08:16] <takyon> the average citizen will never care about the sugar trade or chemical regulations as much as those lobbyists groups with an interest in influencing or WRITING policy
[03:08:53] <crutchy> the only reason why there are lobbyists, is because the government has enabled them
[03:09:07] <crutchy> if the government didn't pander to lobbyists, they would go away
[03:09:21] <takyon> if lobbying was illegal it would just go into the back room
[03:09:38] <crutchy> as long as the government waves a carrot, there will always be lobbyists vying to get a piece of it
[03:09:56] <crutchy> making lobbying illegal is just shifting blame
[03:11:08] <crutchy> anyway... my utopia atm is a bag of doritos :p
[03:12:42] <takyon> Utopia can only be achieved by technology, and must be achieved with massive increases in efficiency. It implies a great increase in living standard (advanced leisure, no employment, and immortality) while more efficiently using resources than ever before. Full recycling, heavy use of additive manufacturing, automation, and most importantly, clean energy from fusion and the classic renewables.
[03:13:15] <Deucalion> crutchy, my utopia is unachievable thanks to greed that is in us all. I see the enemy, it is in us all unfortunately. We can but lay the foundations and hope the future generations build something great on them.
[03:13:22] <crutchy> i had a dream when i was a kid of living in a giant space wheel orbiting jupiter
[03:13:41] <crutchy> Deucalion, i agree. fighting human nature is a futile battle
[03:14:23] <SpallsHurgenson> whoa... people are talking here. people NEVER talk here. what the hell are they talking about?
[03:14:25] <takyon> the ultimate utopia may be to make things so efficient, that you are using practically no resources... aka you live in mind-uploaded VR
[03:14:30] <Deucalion> crutchy, futile or not, it is worth fighting.
[03:15:28] <crutchy> i care only for my family. i'm not gunna fight for anyone else
[03:15:41] <SpallsHurgenson> oh... libertarianism rears its ugly head again.
[03:16:10] * crutchy poisons SpallsHurgenson with some freedom juice
[03:16:46] <Deucalion> crutchy, you would not fight for your country if invaders were spilling into your lands?
[03:18:11] <crutchy> i would fight for the freedom of me and my family. if my country was invaded and threatened my freedom, i would fight. the whole idea of fighting 'terrorists' overseas smacks of political posturing and i won't die for that
[03:19:17] <crutchy> US foreign policy caused 9/11. anyone with a clue already knows why
[03:21:28] <takyon> the ultimate goal of life in the universe is to alter the fate of the universe... simply put, if the fate of the universe is for everything to be torn apart by the acceleration caused by dark energy (Big Freeze/Rip), then how could it be reversed? Life forms arose in the universe and can do things that the universe cannot (e.g. make the manmade elements and do other things that nature can't do). So the universe has "given birth" to life
[03:21:28] <takyon> forms that can alter nature itself. If physics allows life forms to bend the conditions of the universe to their liking, then eventually it will be done.
[03:21:30] <Deucalion> Oh ffs - the west has been intervening in the middle-east for decades
[03:22:09] <crutchy> true. so revenge attack was kinda inevitable
[03:22:54] <crutchy> i don't know why 9/11 timewise, but there would be a reason (opportunity, resources, etc)
[03:23:42] <crutchy> as you yourself said just a moment ago "you would not fight for your country if invaders were spilling into your lands"
[03:25:21] <crutchy> the entire middle east hates the west, which is why ISIS has grown so much
[03:25:24] <takyon> anyway the ultimate form of stewardship that a life form can achieve is not to conquer galaxies, but to reduce its energy footprint to the minimum required (a VR simulated existence, if not just committing suicide)... to preserve usable resources for other civilizations
[03:25:59] <takyon> lol fuck your middle east conflict, I just went BIG PICTUREz
[03:26:07] <crutchy> takyon, i like your thinking
[03:26:20] <crutchy> unfortunately we're not a very efficient species
[03:26:25] <Deucalion> All I said was that western powers have been intervening in the middle-east for decades, in reality centuries.
[03:26:27] <crutchy> we're more like a virus
[03:26:42] <takyon> crutchy it's not that bad
[03:26:47] <crutchy> heh
[03:26:55] <Deucalion> I relay no more meaning than that.
[03:26:56] <crutchy> Deucalion, probably right
[03:26:57] <takyon> the falling birth rates of the west point to an eventual peak global population
[03:27:22] <crutchy> Deucalion, just outta curiosity, why the change of nick?
[03:27:38] <takyon> if we can solve inequality issues fast enough, people will achieve a better standard of living, and their birth rates will fall accordingly
[03:27:47] <Deucalion> crutchy, got tired of the boov jokes
[03:27:54] <crutchy> lol fair enough :)
[03:27:56] <takyon> meanwhile our energy extraction will become more efficient
[03:28:13] <crutchy> takyon, i think there is another massive economic crisis on its way
[03:28:15] <takyon> such as solar panels that are both more efficient and cheaper
[03:28:33] <takyon> that's a good thing crutchy
[03:28:36] <crutchy> there is sooo much debt, that eventually something's gunna give
[03:28:48] <crutchy> the little people will be fukd
[03:28:52] * Deucalion wafts of to place of sleep. Be well.
[03:28:57] <takyon> that's a good thing crutchy
[03:29:03] <crutchy> Deucalion, sleep well
[03:29:10] <cmn32480> ~gnight Deucalion
[03:29:12] * exec accidentally drops a coffee++ mug of $insert_beverage_here on Deucalion
[03:29:34] <takyon> any mass die-offs and unrest just make it easier to achieve an efficient world... if technological progress continues and doesn't decline (a dark age), then we will get more efficient as the "corrections" happen
[03:29:38] <crutchy> takyon, but yeah it might force us to clean up our act a bit
[03:29:47] <takyon> see above
[03:30:05] <crutchy> i think we'll probably use less tech in the end. go back to basic agriculture
[03:30:26] <crutchy> cos high tech kinda relies on sustaining the current economic system
[03:30:36] <takyon> that's crazy talk. we'll use whatever maximizes yield/efficiency
[03:30:53] <takyon> if GMOs and vertical farming maximize yield per acre, that's what's gonna get used
[03:30:57] <crutchy> we'd sure like to, but that's easier said than done
[03:31:13] <takyon> alright, I'll correct that and call it
[03:31:18] <takyon> yield per acre per dollar
[03:31:31] <crutchy> i think dollar might eventually lose all meaning
[03:31:39] <takyon> yield per acre per sex act
[03:32:07] <crutchy> its not that we can't advance tech. hell we could be living on the moon already, but it takes enormous human capital
[03:32:15] <crutchy> and human capital is very expensive
[03:32:32] <takyon> there's no reason to be on the moon right now
[03:32:52] <crutchy> there are celestial objects worth trillions of dollars
[03:33:00] <crutchy> in resources
[03:33:12] <takyon> that's why getting $/kg down is important
[03:33:22] <crutchy> its not worth it because the cost is still greater than the benefit
[03:33:38] <takyon> get the $/kg launch costs down, and you will get more action in space, simple as that
[03:33:56] <crutchy> eventually the cost of improving efficiency exceeds the benefit
[03:34:04] <takyon> although if it's asteroid mining you're talking about, it's only seen as resources you would use in orbit now
[03:34:12] <crutchy> getting $/kg is great, but its not easy
[03:34:12] <takyon> that could change if $/kg plummeted
[03:34:22] <crutchy> same with any efficiency
[03:34:30] <takyon> well it's declining
[03:34:30] <crutchy> the greater the efficiency, the more difficult to attain
[03:34:37] <takyon> not necessarily
[03:34:41] <takyon> there are "moonshots"
[03:34:50] <crutchy> that are still being paid for
[03:34:52] <takyon> "chicago pile moments"
[03:34:59] <takyon> yeah so?
[03:35:06] <takyon> people are paying to do bird science
[03:35:08] <crutchy> eventually debt won't pay for stff
[03:35:18] <crutchy> if the sustem collapses
[03:35:21] <crutchy> *system
[03:35:30] <takyon> well it's all about what happens first
[03:35:48] <crutchy> debt in itself is inefficiency
[03:35:49] <takyon> does the "system" "collapse", or does the cost of living hit the floor due to technology
[03:36:00] <crutchy> debt is the inability to live within your means
[03:36:25] <crutchy> cost of living will skyrocket because of plummeting currency value (inflation)
[03:36:48] <crutchy> people only accept cash because there is faith in its value. if you destroy that faith, the value is lost
[03:37:22] <crutchy> currency markets are totally fucked already
[03:37:54] <crutchy> china's recent manipulation should make that obvious
[03:38:39] <takyon> i don't really care about all that. if crop yields go way up and solar efficiency goes way up, and nuclear fusion makes the cost of electricity go way down, and recycling keeps resource consumption and check and water supplies remain cheap (due to stewardship and desalinization, etc.) then people can conceivably eke out a cheap living...
[03:39:15] <crutchy> i'd love to get to that, but i don't think we'll ever be able to afford it
[03:39:33] <takyon> lets say you live in a cabin out in the middle of nowhere. you have infinite cheap electricity, and a robotic farm that you own can produce enough crops for you... most of your needs are covered by those points
[03:40:00] <takyon> the technology should pay for itself in those ways
[03:40:09] <takyon> AND IF IT CAN'T, let the corrections happen
[03:40:21] <takyon> pick up your spear and die
[03:40:39] <crutchy> the corrections will happen, forever making tech utopia just that little more out of reach
[03:40:52] <takyon> is Syria a correction?
[03:41:07] <crutchy> syria is a manipulation
[03:41:18] <takyon> a few million people die, that reduces the global burden, and yet scientific progress chugs along
[03:41:36] <takyon> if the corrections don't happen in all places at once, science and tech will continue
[03:41:53] <crutchy> when corrections happen, progress slows
[03:41:56] <takyon> might affect the funding and the pace, but it will take a true shitstorm to destroy everything and bring us back to the dark ages
[03:42:00] <takyon> that's fine
[03:42:09] <takyon> slows is better than reversed
[03:42:26] <takyon> and the corrections give the globe breathing room
[03:42:48] <crutchy> if we only had minor corrections i think your dream might be possible
[03:42:55] <takyon> we have them all the time
[03:43:11] <crutchy> throw in a global crash and ww3 and everything might change
[03:43:30] <takyon> to weather the global crash, you just have to become self-sufficient
[03:43:42] <takyon> there are a couple of nations that are 100% renewable energy and whatnot
[03:43:44] <crutchy> true. hence getting back to basics
[03:43:46] <takyon> as long as they have food security
[03:44:16] <takyon> right, if you can cover the basics of energy and food, you can keep everything in check
[03:44:36] <crutchy> unfortunately a lot of western nations don't have food security
[03:44:39] <takyon> I don't list water because I think it's an easier challenge than food
[03:45:07] <crutchy> without logistics chains and electricity and petroleum infrastructure, most people wouldn't be able to eat
[03:45:18] <crutchy> (in america for example)
[03:45:23] <takyon> well I can give you one nation that will be primed and ready to face shitstorm time
[03:45:50] <crutchy> antarctica?
[03:46:09] <takyon> Canada: lots of fresh water, lots of fossil fuel, lots of trees and space, low population density, first world nation
[03:46:28] <takyon> global warming will help Canada's crop yields too
[03:46:47] <crutchy> australia is a bit the same. unfortunately for canada it shares a border with a nation of 300 million+
[03:47:11] <crutchy> if those 300+ million get hungry, where you think they'll go?
[03:47:16] <takyon> yeah well they've gotten to watch our relationship with Mexico
[03:47:28] <takyon> maybe they'll learn a few lessons on how to build a fence
[03:47:43] <takyon> front row seats, with popcorn
[03:47:54] <crutchy> look at refugee crisis in europe atm
[03:48:01] <cmn32480> they shoudl use the Trump Construction Company.. they can do it CHEAP!
[03:48:06] <crutchy> gunna get worse
[03:48:33] <takyon> yeah well if you let the refugees come in and stay, of course they are going to continue to come
[03:48:40] <swiss> cmn32480: the other construction companies are LOSERS
[03:49:04] <takyon> the refugees are just probing the natural weaknesses in the EU system
[03:49:10] <takyon> you can't blame them for that
[03:49:11] <cmn32480> and he doesn't like losers swiss
[03:49:15] <crutchy> swiss, s/LOSERS/FIRED!/ :p
[03:49:36] <swiss> DAMN STRAIGHT
[03:49:56] <crutchy> takyon, the refugees in europe aren't probing anything. they have no other choice
[03:50:00] <takyon> also a lot more population is connected by land to Europe than to Canada
[03:50:11] <takyon> they are probing
[03:50:14] <crutchy> other than stay and die
[03:50:46] <SpallsHurgenson> cats are weird...
[03:50:57] <crutchy> yes they are :)
[03:51:07] <crutchy> so are guinea pigs
[03:51:20] <takyon> if they were slaughtered or otherwise turned away, they wouldn't keep on going to Europe. But they know they can get in, have a lot of routes to get in, and have decent opportunities to be kept in permanently
[03:51:35] <crutchy> they would still come
[03:51:43] <SpallsHurgenson> then again, so are people. I mean, we actively supress the breeding of the cats who are best able to live with us
[03:52:01] <takyon> they aren't just moving out of Syria, they are moving out of refugee camps near Syria looking for better opportunities
[03:52:18] <crutchy> they are already being turned away. doesnt stop them
[03:52:31] <takyon> let me grab some headlines for you
[03:52:31] <SpallsHurgenson> cats are already plotting our downfall... we shouldn't be encouraging the breeds that have already decided they can do just fine without us.
[03:52:44] <takyon> http://news.google.com
[03:52:47] <takyon> TOP STORY ON GOOGLE NEWS
[03:52:51] <Schwifty> ^ 03Google News
[03:52:56] <takyon> Migrants are arriving in Austria after Hungary's surprise move to provide buses for them.
[03:52:58] <crutchy> if they weren't being turned away there would be no headlines
[03:53:05] <takyon> does that sound like being turned away
[03:53:09] <SpallsHurgenson> breed housecats, spay wildcats :)
[03:53:31] <takyon> you said it yourself, it doesn't stop them
[03:53:42] <takyon> and they aren't being turned away in any uniform fashion
[03:53:54] <takyon> instead politicians are talking about how many tens of thousands of refugees to accept
[03:53:57] <SpallsHurgenson> at least then humanity might survive in the new cat hegemony serving their overlords as living can-openers
[03:54:04] <crutchy> i think you know what i mean though
[03:54:33] * crutchy for one welcomes our new pussy overlords!
[03:54:38] <takyon> no I don't. I'm at that point where I don't know what we're disagreeing on and it's dumb
[03:54:45] <crutchy> lol
[03:54:57] <crutchy> i like your tech angle
[03:55:19] <crutchy> i just don't think we'll ever reach it
[03:55:40] <crutchy> we'll prolly make ourselves extinct before then
[03:55:45] <takyon> I think it's important to talk about the population curve
[03:55:51] <SpallsHurgenson> but that's my point; wild cats won't be our overlords; they'll be our exterminators. They'll do unto us as they do unto squirrels and bluejays. We must promote the rise of the housecat faction so we still have a purpose in the new regime :)
[03:55:58] <takyon> we're at about... 7.4 billion global population right now.
[03:56:05] <crutchy> death by pussy.... hmm
[03:56:26] <takyon> various estimates have shown that global population would peak at 11 billion or so, or as much as 15 billion. but new estimates in recent months peg it closer to 20 billion
[03:56:31] <cmn32480> at least we would all go with a smile on our face!
[03:56:56] <takyon> the idea is that among other factors, increasing standard of living causes birth rates to go down and population growth to be limited
[03:57:29] <SirFinkus> don't worry, I'm working on a plague
[03:57:32] <crutchy> increased standard of living for some often comes at the expense of standard of living for others
[03:57:32] <SpallsHurgenson> then again... if wildcats can maintain a kill-rate of 228,000 people per day it would help cut into population growth
[03:57:33] <cmn32480> ~gnight everyone!
[03:57:34] * exec abnormally cracks open a pair of used panties full of coffee for everyone!
[03:57:34] <takyon> and if population doesn't get out of control (whatever you define that number to be), then advances in fusion and farming will allow us to handle the increase pop
[03:57:39] <SirFinkus> overpopulation will not be an issue
[03:57:45] <crutchy> g'night cmn32480
[03:57:52] cmn32480 is now known as cmn32480|sleepin
[03:57:54] <takyon> crutchy: you already have higher standard of living than others
[03:57:58] <cmn32480|sleepin> see y'all tomorrow
[03:57:59] <crutchy> yes
[03:58:08] <crutchy> it is unsustainable
[03:58:09] <takyon> but you can see on various indices that money doesn't necessarily correlate to higher happiness
[03:58:19] <SirFinkus> takyon no he doesn't, remember he lives in Australia?
[03:58:24] <crutchy> lol
[03:58:32] <SirFinkus> dingos eating babies literally every day
[03:58:33] <crutchy> yeah i'm always running from drop bears :p
[03:58:46] <takyon> as in, if your basic needs are met, and you can get that cheap $100 TV set, than you are probably well off enough, even if mobility doesn't bring you to a fully american lifestyle
[03:59:17] <SpallsHurgenson> dingos. crocdiles. boxing kangaroos. drop bears. poisonous snakes. tasmanian devils. poisonous spiders. aborogines!
[03:59:24] <SirFinkus> my basic needs include not being bitten by poisonous animals every time I go outside
[03:59:27] <SirFinkus> or shit, stay inside
[03:59:50] <takyon> and if you have advances like fusion bringing your electricity to below $0.01 per KWh, and increasing crop yields to keep food prices stable, then you are in a good place
[03:59:52] <crutchy> inside is dangrous too
[04:00:01] <SirFinkus> spiders?
[04:00:04] <crutchy> there are spiders and insects that want to eat your brainz
[04:00:05] <SirFinkus> see, fuck that
[04:00:17] <SpallsHurgenson> everybody into the big plastic bubble!
[04:00:22] <takyon> technology transfer is becoming quicker... smartphones being a major example
[04:00:25] <crutchy> takyon, fusion will never be that cheap
[04:00:44] <takyon> I think it will be that cheap
[04:00:46] <crutchy> it might cost that much to produce some day, but the investment costs will be through the roof
[04:00:50] <takyon> I'm tracking the fusion projects
[04:00:51] <crutchy> gotta think TCO
[04:01:02] <crutchy> even linux isn't 'free'
[04:01:09] <SirFinkus> we need to develop an energy source that runs off poisonous snakes
[04:01:12] <takyon> you may have seen links to a few of them in stories or comments
[04:01:25] <takyon> we are 10 years away from some form of fusion, not 20
[04:01:30] <SirFinkus> or mosquitos
[04:01:34] <SpallsHurgenson> (whose bright idea was it to use a "do not shine into remaining eye" laser as a toy to be used with "have eyes that are supersensitive to light" cats anyway?
[04:01:37] <SirFinkus> *and mosquitos
[04:01:37] <crutchy> takyon, i think that's a pipe dream
[04:01:43] <crutchy> i hope i'm wrong
[04:01:54] <takyon> well you won't have to wait long to prove me wrong
[04:02:01] <crutchy> but people have been predicting huge tech advances for centuries
[04:02:11] <SirFinkus> the first person that turned one on in the presence of a cat SpallsHurgenson
[04:02:14] <crutchy> we were supposed to have flying cars by now
[04:02:18] <takyon> since Lockheed Martin and Lawrenceville and others are all shooting for the fusion
[04:02:25] <SirFinkus> flying cars are a shitty idea
[04:02:26] <takyon> flying cars is just a bad example
[04:02:32] <crutchy> they are shooting for government contracts... nothing more
[04:02:39] <SpallsHurgenson> http://www.terrafugia.com :)
[04:02:40] <takyon> nah that's bullshit
[04:02:44] <Schwifty> ^ 03Welcome | Terrafugia
[04:02:54] <SpallsHurgenson> I want my meals in pill form :)
[04:02:57] <SpallsHurgenson> and sexbots :)
[04:02:58] <SirFinkus> I'd rather not have flaming wrecks coming down in my backyard tyvm
[04:03:00] <takyon> Lockheed Martin isn't doing a make-work fusion project
[04:03:01] <crutchy> lockheed martin don't care about fusion. they care about their stockholders
[04:03:07] <SirFinkus> have you ever seen another person drive?
[04:03:16] <crutchy> they are a government contractor
[04:03:19] <SpallsHurgenson> erm... did I say that last one aloud?
[04:03:20] <crutchy> look at X-33
[04:03:23] <takyon> fusion is good for their stockholders
[04:03:31] <crutchy> no its not. its a huge risk
[04:03:31] <SirFinkus> I want my sexbots in pill form
[04:03:34] <takyon> if you've noticed, a lot of big companies use a lot of energy
[04:03:49] <crutchy> nobody wants to be a guinea pig for any new tech
[04:03:57] <takyon> if they have a cheap fusion project that works (their version fits in a shipping container), then it will save them a lot of money
[04:04:03] <takyon> this isn't ITER we're talking about
[04:04:08] <takyon> tokamak fusion is a money dump
[04:04:12] <crutchy> it will get them more government contracts
[04:04:16] <takyon> this is about fusion ideas that could work FOR CHEAP
[04:04:33] <crutchy> your idea of 'cheap' is flawed
[04:04:43] <crutchy> coal is cheap
[04:05:00] <takyon> the cost of coal isn't declining
[04:05:07] <crutchy> you can dig it out of the ground with a shovel
[04:05:10] <takyon> the cost of solar and wind will decline below coal
[04:05:15] <SirFinkus> I suspect the incentives are misaligned for fusion right now, since there's so much money to be made in traditional energy production
[04:05:16] <takyon> yeah for a while
[04:05:16] <crutchy> no their not
[04:05:20] <takyon> and then it gets harder and costs go up
[04:05:37] <crutchy> solar and wind won't replace coal for a long long time
[04:05:40] <crutchy> if ever
[04:06:00] <crutchy> its got nothing to do with cost per megawatt
[04:06:06] <takyon> sure it does
[04:06:07] <crutchy> its the number of megawatts required
[04:06:14] <crutchy> gigawatts
[04:06:18] <takyon> it already coexists with coal
[04:06:27] <crutchy> coal provides base load
[04:06:28] <SirFinkus> I think solar is smart for individual homes, and as a supplement, but it doesn't seem to have the grunt to really run everything
[04:06:36] <SirFinkus> hehe "load"
[04:06:39] <crutchy> solar and wind just top up to meet peak demand
[04:06:46] <takyon> look solar has to go really cheap (along with a good battery) to be a 24/7 energy technology
[04:07:03] <crutchy> and its a long way from that
[04:07:04] <takyon> but by the time you get to worry about that, we'll have fusion as the 24/7 energy generation technology
[04:07:28] <takyon> because lockheed martin and these other players are not working on bullshit fusion
[04:07:29] <SirFinkus> I just like the decentralized aspect, it gives you a lot of advantages
[04:07:54] <SirFinkus> power goes out and provided it's day, you can still probably get enough power to charge a phone or something
[04:07:59] <takyon> if a solar panel and tesla powerwall 3.0 meet your needs, then you get off the grid
[04:07:59] <SirFinkus> regardless of weather
[04:08:04] <crutchy> they aren't working on bullshit fusion, but they don't care about it either
[04:08:04] <SpallsHurgenson> either that or we'll plug people in and use them as biochemical batteries. I think I saw that in a documentary once so I'm pretty sure that'll work
[04:08:11] <crutchy> they work for government contracts
[04:08:18] <takyon> what the hell
[04:08:30] <takyon> it's not some monolithic thing
[04:08:31] <crutchy> they'll work on anything to get as much government money as they can
[04:08:31] <SirFinkus> SpallsHurgenson: but how will we keep them content?
[04:08:47] <SpallsHurgenson> I dunno, sexbots?
[04:08:49] <takyon> lowering their own energy costs increases their profit margins
[04:08:59] <crutchy> its not about reducing costs
[04:09:12] <crutchy> they want more free public money
[04:09:19] <takyon> that's just bullshit cynicism
[04:09:20] <takyon> first of all
[04:09:24] <takyon> it doesn't matter if that's true
[04:09:30] * SirFinkus is waiting for darpa sexbots
[04:09:39] <crutchy> its not that i wish it were true. its just the way it is
[04:09:41] <takyon> because they can still give us overpriced warplanes and want to make cheap fusion in the other room
[04:09:48] <takyon> f a l l a c y
[04:10:03] * SpallsHurgenson watches the Terrafugia TF-X video and remains unconvinced "I don't trust any technology company that makes a video with CGI that doesn't look any better than something I'd see in SecondLife
[04:10:05] <crutchy> when you have a government as large as the USA, they become the main customer
[04:10:22] <crutchy> you want to service the customer that will pay you the most
[04:10:25] * SirFinkus wonders what ever happened to those UNLIMITED DETAIL guys
[04:10:26] <takyon> plus, the fusion they are working on is so small, it could fit into aircraft, MEANING THEY CAN SELL NEW FORMS OF CRAFT TO THE GOVERNMENT
[04:10:37] <crutchy> they might do that
[04:10:42] <takyon> so if you want your shareholder angle, there you go
[04:10:44] <crutchy> at huge expense to the taxpayer
[04:10:49] <takyon> like I care
[04:10:54] <crutchy> your kids might
[04:11:02] <takyon> DARPA is sticking around no matter what you have to say about it
[04:11:09] <crutchy> aren't they the ones supposed to benefit from this fusion thingy?
[04:11:12] <takyon> as long as they license fusion technology to other companies
[04:11:38] <crutchy> DARPA is just the government department that gives companies like lockheed martin their money
[04:12:23] <crutchy> google 'military industrial complex'
[04:12:31] <takyon> don't patronize me
[04:12:38] <SpallsHurgenson> if you get fusion, can I get a space elevator?
[04:12:39] <crutchy> lol you're patronizing yourself
[04:12:51] <takyon> we've already established that the govt is going to continue shoveling money into companies like Lockheed Martin
[04:12:58] <crutchy> take the rose colored glasses off and step into the real world
[04:12:58] <takyon> that's just a duh
[04:13:06] <SirFinkus> https://www.youtube.com this I guess
[04:13:10] <SpallsHurgenson> If it helps, it'd give the US a reason to invade another country in central america or africa... the army would like that
[04:13:11] <Schwifty> ^ 03Euclideon Makes World’s Most Realistic Graphics - YouTube
[04:13:32] <crutchy> takyon, soon the government may not have any money to give. that was my original point. if the economy tanks. so does progress
[04:13:58] <takyon> I've already said I find that prediction unlikely
[04:14:05] <crutchy> fair enough
[04:14:09] <takyon> that's your brown-tinted glasses future
[04:14:19] <crutchy> i understand human nature well
[04:15:11] <takyon> your doomsday, whatever scale it comes, will be a good thing
[04:15:22] <takyon> because it will correct inefficiencies
[04:15:40] <takyon> while not wiping out, reversing, or adversely slowing progress
[04:16:05] <SpallsHurgenson> hey, don't get rid of the inefficiencies! I work in management!
[04:16:12] <takyon> chop
[04:16:59] <SpallsHurgenson> typical... and I just mastered the TPS reports too
[04:17:53] <crutchy> if the US dollar value plummets as expected, there will be no progress because everyone will be focused on mere survival
[04:18:18] <crutchy> it really is a doomsday scenario, but that's just how bad it could get
[04:18:30] <crutchy> americans depend on their money for survival
[04:19:18] <crutchy> other western countries depend on their money too, so its not just america, but america is high risk of collapse due to crushing debt and unfunded liabilities
[04:20:42] <takyon> the progress will just move somewhere else
[04:20:43] <takyon> fuck america
[04:21:07] <crutchy> possibly, but the problem won't be isolated to america
[04:21:07] <SpallsHurgenson> but we're the number one producers of TPS reports!
[04:21:13] <crutchy> europe is pretty fucked too
[04:22:04] <crutchy> the only countries that are less at risk are the developing countries like those in africa
[04:22:20] <crutchy> they don't depend so much on service economies
[04:22:39] <takyon> well if population growth turns out to be an advantage, african (continent) pop will be increasing to 4-5 billion
[04:22:44] <crutchy> they're also the least likely to develop new advanced technologies
[04:23:19] <takyon> the Ethiopians will get to space one day
[04:23:20] <crutchy> because tech development depends on service economies (logistics, infrastructure, capital investment, etc)
[04:23:33] <takyon> they have an advantage in mobile payments
[04:23:48] <crutchy> its hard for one person to develop everything needed for a fusion reactor. you need lots of people working together
[04:24:09] <takyon> you can also steal someone else's work
[04:24:13] <takyon> where's china in all this
[04:24:13] <crutchy> and you gotta support all those people with more people
[04:24:32] <crutchy> china is on top
[04:24:47] <crutchy> but they also have a big population to support
[04:25:07] <crutchy> but yeah they might help keep your dream alive
[04:26:20] <crutchy> i think the chinese government can sense impending doom, which is why they are manipulating commodity markets so much
[04:26:37] <crutchy> they're hoarding absolutely everything they can get their hands on
[04:29:15] <takyon> they are building up renewable energy, and nuclear (fission) energy
[04:29:25] <takyon> of course they have to do something to taggle smog problems
[04:29:32] <takyon> *tackle
[04:34:26] * SpallsHurgenson buys, downloads, plays and is disappointed by yet another MMORPG
[04:34:59] <crutchy> SpallsHurgenson, 'World of Bitcoin'?
[04:35:37] <SpallsHurgenson> elders crolls online
[04:35:41] <takyon> oh shit
[04:35:50] <takyon> a lot of people could have warned you
[04:35:54] <SpallsHurgenson> I don't know why I keep bothering, none of 'em are ever any good
[04:36:30] <SpallsHurgenson> also, it just crashed :)
[04:36:31] <takyon> you want to play a game?
[04:36:59] * SpallsHurgenson types into the parser: LET'S PLAY GLOBAL THERMONUCLEAR WAR
[04:39:22] <crutchy> SpallsHurgenson, oh you thinking of joining the potus 2016 race too?
[04:40:29] * takyon waits
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[04:49:30] <JamesNZ> Kanye 2020!
[04:49:42] <takyon> woot
[04:55:53] <takyon> to clarify, is Kanye running as a Republican or Democrat in 2020
[04:56:45] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - What Happened to Early Mars' Atmosphere? New Study Eliminates One Theory - http://sylnt.us - mega-maid-took-it
[04:57:11] <crutchy> wtf? he's obviously very faithful to his party... that he hasn't chosen yet :p
[04:57:27] <crutchy> the party bases will be sure to accept him
[04:58:21] <takyon> well I heard he was running as R from some commentard, and then when I looked it up I didn't see him mention party affiliation
[04:58:26] <takyon> and then I just quit caring
[05:01:40] <crutchy> the whole 2016 race is a circus
[05:02:05] <crutchy> i don't think it will matter who wins... everyone will still lose :/
[05:02:09] <takyon> or a zoo
[05:02:41] <takyon> I'd take Bernie over Hillary, or Trump for laughs
[05:03:56] <crutchy> trump might actually be a breath of fresh air. he just doesn't have a congressional voting record to judge, so he could be just talking out his ass (he probably is)
[05:04:29] <takyon> Hillary isn't human, she's just extruded-by-committee human-like candidate substance
[05:04:43] <crutchy> i don't think rand paul will win the primaries, but i like his congressional voting record the most
[05:05:04] <takyon> Rand Paul got creamed before the debates even began
[05:05:14] <crutchy> only by the media
[05:05:18] <takyon> no
[05:05:23] <crutchy> which has never liked him or his dad
[05:05:24] <takyon> he alienated both the libertarians that supported his father, and mainstream Republicans
[05:05:47] <takyon> he compromised too much, adopted the warmongering talk
[05:05:54] <crutchy> he hasn't alienated libertarians. you're just watching too much fox and cnn
[05:06:11] <crutchy> he believes in strong national defense. not nation building
[05:06:23] -!- SirFinkus has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
[05:06:31] <crutchy> or military adventurism
[05:06:42] <crutchy> empire building, whatever you wanna call it
[05:07:47] <crutchy> he's taken a strong stand against isis, but its probably more of a threat than any other country
[05:08:04] <takyon> he has alienated his libertarians and he has taken some non-isolationist stances
[05:08:09] <takyon> and let's look at his polling
[05:08:16] <crutchy> he's never been an isolationist
[05:08:16] <takyon> 2.8%
[05:08:24] <crutchy> nor has his father
[05:08:43] <crutchy> that isolationism rhetoric is media nonsense
[05:08:45] <takyon> they are as close as you are going to get to isolationist
[05:08:48] <takyon> which is a good thing
[05:08:53] <crutchy> they're not though
[05:09:05] <crutchy> they believe in trade and dialog
[05:09:14] <crutchy> that isn't isolationism
[05:09:31] <takyon> I'm talking about wars and conflict
[05:09:42] <takyon> obviously we will continue trade and dialog
[05:09:42] <crutchy> that's different, and yes he's against that
[05:09:49] <takyon> semantics
[05:10:13] <crutchy> maybe, but when you confuse terms you get chinese whisper effect
[05:10:41] <takyon> back to the polls
[05:10:54] <crutchy> which is why you think he's alienated his libertarian base
[05:11:00] <crutchy> which is nonsense
[05:11:24] <takyon> Trump, Carson, Cruz, Walker, Huckabee are all above Paul in the polls
[05:11:24] <crutchy> the neocons hate him, but that's kindof a given
[05:11:41] <crutchy> takyon, you remember the polls in 2008 and 2012?
[05:11:50] <crutchy> often they left ron paul off them altogether!
[05:12:00] <takyon> I remember Ron Paul doing a lot better than 3% in a lot of polls
[05:12:01] <crutchy> the media hates ron and rand
[05:12:15] <crutchy> *hates*
[05:12:29] <takyon> Rand Paul is done for
[05:12:50] <crutchy> probably, but only because he doesn't play the game
[05:12:51] <takyon> Trump, Carson and others have sucked in would-be supporters
[05:13:10] <takyon> I think he has played the game
[05:13:16] <takyon> he has tried to appeal to the mainstream
[05:13:19] <crutchy> i think he's tried
[05:13:22] <crutchy> yeah
[05:13:54] <crutchy> if he tried too much then he may alienate his supporters
[05:14:05] <takyon> If your libertarian supporters have to say something to the effect of "oh that Rand is just trying to sucker in regular Republicans, he's still with us", then he's failed
[05:14:50] <crutchy> a lot of republicans are nutjobs. rand could never have won them over
[05:15:11] <crutchy> he actually probably has a faster growing support from democrats
[05:15:53] <crutchy> because there are some similarities between libertarianism and progressives
[05:15:59] <crutchy> in social policy anyway
[05:16:00] <takyon> well I liked Rand Paul's attempts to court black voters a few months ago
[05:16:27] <takyon> but that was back when he had a bigger spotlight on him
[05:16:28] <crutchy> the media twisted his take on the civil rights act
[05:17:07] <crutchy> i guess trump is the shiny pony atm
[05:17:14] <crutchy> so the media focus is on him
[05:17:26] <crutchy> eventually something else might come along
[05:18:51] <takyon> everyone is skittish of predicting when Trump interest will die off
[05:19:10] <takyon> since he weathered the McCain/veterans controversy and continued to grow in popularity
[05:20:07] <takyon> but it's still months away from the first primaries so I would expect his support to wane
[05:20:27] <takyon> I'm a little surprised Carson is doing so well
[05:22:04] <crutchy> its just a circus
[05:22:09] <crutchy> full of clowns
[05:23:55] <takyon> but we have to analyze the clowns
[05:24:08] <takyon> compare nose size
[05:24:54] <crutchy> if more people watch cspan and look at how their reps actually voted in congress that analysis might be more valid
[05:25:28] <crutchy> judging them by what color tie they're wearing is the sort of level that the media plays on
[05:27:08] <crutchy> most of the media doesn't care what is actually said in congress or senate committee hearings
[05:27:16] <crutchy> hence the massive level of ignorance
[05:27:33] <takyon> well sometimes they don't read the leg
[05:28:25] <crutchy> did you realize that police forces were given bayonets!?
[05:28:39] <takyon> yeah I heard about that
[05:28:39] <crutchy> wtf would any police officer need a fucking bayonet for?
[05:28:44] -!- SpallsHurgenson has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de]
[05:29:16] <crutchy> who in congress stood up against it?
[05:29:17] <takyon> I didn't think much about it, I assumed it would go good on their mantles
[05:29:49] <takyon> it's the MRAPs that have drawn attention lately
[05:30:07] <crutchy> cos they're kinda hard to miss
[05:30:33] <crutchy> police forces have had armored vehicles for a long time
[05:31:10] <takyon> SWAT sure is fun
[05:31:26] <crutchy> fly swats are fun too :D
[05:31:41] <crutchy> in summer anyway, when there are flies
[05:32:33] <takyon> too bad that bug-a-salt thing was a piece of junk (reportedly)
[05:50:35] <takyon> later
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[06:44:01] <arti> lol gravis
[06:44:30] <milkmaid> Hi
[06:44:37] <arti> high
[06:44:56] <crutchy> g'day milkmaid
[06:47:12] * arti finished scrolling up
[06:48:43] <milkmaid> How are you guys
[06:49:31] <crutchy> i'm horizontal on a couch munching on doritos
[06:49:35] <crutchy> you?
[06:49:49] <arti> camming again crutchy?
[06:50:18] <crutchy> yes
[06:50:31] <crutchy> the dude watching has a doritos fetish
[06:51:25] <crutchy> i'm not totally nude cos i have some lacy panties on
[06:51:56] <arti> you work for tips
[06:52:18] <crutchy> pro boner
[06:55:06] <arti> haha
[06:55:27] * crutchy is a dickhead
[06:58:17] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Welsh Village Almost Completely Cut Off - http://sylnt.us - first-world-problems
[07:11:19] -!- Gravis [Gravis!~gravis@bi53-240-819-373.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #Soylent
[07:11:37] <Gravis> TheMightyBuzzard: why so serious? :)
[07:12:15] <arti> guess whose back, back again, tell a friend
[07:14:55] <crutchy> fat shady
[07:15:23] <Gravis> :P
[07:15:51] <crutchy> tmb was probably off his meds
[07:15:57] <crutchy> i've warned him about it
[07:16:31] <Gravis> oh my... well that explains a lot
[07:16:34] <arti> tadalafil?
[07:16:50] <crutchy> falafil
[07:17:09] <Gravis> falafel?
[07:17:18] * arti hears the accent
[07:17:40] <crutchy> falafil is the cheaper breand
[07:17:43] <crutchy> *brand
[07:18:09] <crutchy> wait a minute?
[07:18:15] <crutchy> .cox.net
[07:18:26] <arti> is that a new gay app?
[07:18:30] <crutchy> Gravis is really Ethanol-fueled!?
[07:18:40] <arti> nah dc.dc
[07:18:49] <arti> have to be sd
[07:18:51] <crutchy> oh
[07:18:59] <arti> close m8
[07:19:03] <crutchy> :p
[07:19:13] <arti> back in a lil bit, gotta get lifted
[07:19:21] <arti> you have the helm
[07:19:30] * crutchy spins the wheel
[07:19:39] <crutchy> yaaaaaay!!!!
[07:19:47] <Gravis> oh great... now the room has stalled
[07:19:53] <Gravis> crutchy: great driving, bro. -_-
[07:20:41] <crutchy> ~moo
[07:20:42] <exec> (__)
[07:20:42] <exec> (oo)
[07:20:42] <exec> /------\/
[07:20:42] <exec> / | ||
[07:20:43] <exec> * /\---/\
[07:20:44] <exec> ~~ ~~
[07:20:45] <exec> ..."Have you mooed today?"...
[07:22:02] <crutchy> Gravis, i'll sit here on my arse. you get out and push :p
[07:22:29] <Gravis> lol
[07:42:40] * SirFinkus is listening to Black Sabbath — Warning, from the album Black Sabbath
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[08:59:49] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Woman Plans a Dolphin-assisted Birth in Hawaii - http://sylnt.us - so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish
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[09:18:01] * arti ~beer
[09:18:05] <arti> !beer
[09:18:10] <arti> $beer
[09:18:10] <aqu4> The beer command requires an argument.
[09:18:13] <arti> $beer arti
[09:18:13] * aqu4 gives arti a cold can of beer
[09:18:21] <arti> third time's the charm
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[09:57:04] <JamesNZ> That was the fourth :P
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[11:31:43] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Want Your Kids to Learn Coding? Train the Darn Teachers First - http://sylnt.us - isn't-there-an-app-for-that?
[12:08:52] <crutchy> http://www.smh.com.au
[12:08:53] <Schwifty> ^ 03Woman who jumped into the sea to save NSW shark attack victim speaks out
[12:11:19] <crutchy> http://www.heraldsun.com.au
[12:15:58] <crutchy> https://tags.news.com.au
[12:16:06] <crutchy> https://tags.news.com.au
[12:16:19] <crutchy> ~title https://tags.news.com.au
[12:16:22] <exec> 13Support for Libs’ actions over Damien Mantach | HeraldSun - 03http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/support-for-libs-actions-over-damien-mantach/story-fnjj6013-1227513636816?nk=74016cc3f8842a3fdae594886b1732f7-1441455380
[12:32:29] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Two North Carolina Teens Hit with Child Porn Charges After Consensual Sexting - http://sylnt.us - sense-no-makes
[14:19:14] cmn32480|sleepin is now known as cmn32840
[14:58:04] <cmn32840> coffee++
[14:58:04] <Bender> karma - coffee: 1630
[15:04:24] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Life and Death of The Worm at NASA - http://sylnt.us - a-matter-of-style
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[15:28:33] <cmn32840> .kick cmn32480_test
[15:28:33] -!- cmn32480_test was kicked from #Soylent by Imogen!Imogen@imogen.dusty.attic [(cmn32840 (cmn32480)) No reason given]
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[15:28:58] <cmn32840> .kick cmn32480_test for being me
[15:28:58] -!- cmn32480_test was kicked from #Soylent by Imogen!Imogen@imogen.dusty.attic [(cmn32840 (cmn32480)) for being me]
[15:32:49] <cmn32840> .op
[15:32:49] -!- mode/#Soylent [+o cmn32840] by Imogen
[15:37:29] <cmn32840> .deop
[15:37:29] -!- mode/#Soylent [-o cmn32840] by Imogen
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[17:05:55] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Lost Tunnels of Liverpool - http://sylnt.us - beware-the-balrog
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[18:56:31] <SirFinkus> tethering is neat
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[19:07:27] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Clever Technical Breakthrough Could Make LEDs as Inexpensive as Incandescents - http://sylnt.us - good,-fast,-AND-cheap?
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[20:38:36] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Best Windows 10 Resources - http://sylnt.us - on-the-bleeding-edge
[22:40:07] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Not On My Watch: Chimp Swats Film Crew’s Drone - http://sylnt.us - must-have-watched-'King Kong'
[22:58:52] * arti plays some minecraft
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[23:42:11] <Ethanol-fueled> sup fellas.
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