#Soylent | Logs for 2014-10-24

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[01:00:57] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - First Privately Funded Moon Mission Launched - http://sylnt.us - made-in-China
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[02:50:17] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Mark Zuckerberg Learns Mandarin - http://sylnt.us - more-from-our-new-overlords
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[04:36:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> damnation, what am i doing still awake?
[04:48:19] <JamesNZ> Chatting on IRC apparently.
[04:48:38] <JamesNZ> fedora++
[04:48:38] <Bender> karma - fedora: 39
[04:48:39] <JamesNZ> fedora++
[04:48:39] <Bender> karma - fedora: 40
[04:48:42] <JamesNZ> coffee--
[04:48:42] <Bender> karma - coffee: 990
[04:48:44] <JamesNZ> coffee--
[04:48:44] <Bender> karma - coffee: 989
[04:48:52] <chromas> 989
[04:48:58] <chromas> remember Syphon Filter?
[04:49:10] <JamesNZ> Nope.
[04:51:48] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - "The Conversation" Launches US Site - http://sylnt.us - curated-creation
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[05:06:28] <keplr> Anyone use OS X?
[05:08:57] <ar> coffee--
[05:08:57] <Bender> karma - coffee: 988
[05:09:14] <ar> keplr: why would anyone use an os that actively spies on you?
[05:10:17] <keplr> That level of paranoia slices off literaly every viable operating system in exitance.
[05:10:33] <ar> it's not "that level of paranoia".
[05:10:47] <keplr> So are you using OpenBSD on entirely free hardware?
[05:11:35] <ar> osx 10.10 sends whatever you type in searchboxes to apple and microsoft (bind), even in whatever-their-local-disk-search-thing-was-called
[05:11:59] <keplr> And I've disabled that functionality. I had to do the same thing to Ubuntu LINUX
[05:12:18] <ar> which was ubuntu which has its own set of flaws
[05:12:50] <ar> nothing's perfect, but - at least - i'm not overpaying for something that spies on me
[05:13:24] <keplr> I think OS X spies on niave users, but can be motified to be as benign as any other OS
[05:13:42] <keplr> *modified
[05:15:06] <ar> you're sure you've found them all?
[05:15:20] <keplr> As sure as I can be with any other OS.
[05:18:18] <ar> I'm not so sure about that.
[05:19:00] <ar> thanks to having a quite minimal system, i can be sure nothing initiates network connections on its own
[05:19:06] <ar> can you?
[05:19:27] <ar> (yes, i know, that's not everything there is to spying on users)
[05:19:43] <keplr> Are you sure gcc hasn't been compromised?
[05:20:54] <keplr> Darwin, the OS X base operating sytem, is open source as much as Linux.
[05:21:16] <ar> i'm pretty sure my whitebox-pc-router shows no unexpected connections in logs when i'm running linux on my laptop
[05:21:38] <ar> and Darwin has been closed a few years ago, and never really had a thriving community
[05:22:26] <keplr> Well you're right about the latter, but it's still open source. OSI certifies it. And do you really monitor all your traffic 24/7 and review your logs?
[05:22:55] <keplr> My point is that, at bottom, we all trust someone
[05:23:10] <keplr> You just trust different people
[05:23:20] <ar> and i put less trust in them
[05:24:04] <keplr> Well, granted it might be a more diffuse trust, but that also means ther are less people that would need to be undermined
[05:24:26] <keplr> *less difuse
[05:25:26] <keplr> If there's a line of microcode in your entire system that you didn't write, or verify, or understand, then you are potentially vulnerable.
[05:25:44] <keplr> There's not a computer sytem in the world that meets that standard.
[05:26:37] <keplr> Everyone is trusting someone else, dozens of people, and there's a statistical certainty they've been flipped by NSA.
[05:27:49] <keplr> So when I have something really important to communicate, the cell phones get left in the other room, the stereo is turned up to max volume, and I don't mention names.
[05:28:12] <chromas> the stereo is spying on you
[05:28:37] <keplr> Everything else is a toy, so why are you arguing that Linux is better than Darwin, or BSD, or Solris, et al.
[05:28:39] <ar> And you're using an operating system sold and developed by american company. that alone makes it certain that you're being spied on by NSA
[05:29:19] <keplr> And Linux is international and can be added to by anyone in the USA *OR* anywhere else.
[05:29:32] <ar> source in the linux kernel has been reviewed at least once or twice by different people
[05:30:07] <keplr> I'm not confident that Linus and others can catch bug doors.
[05:30:17] <keplr> He's a human being like everyone else.
[05:30:33] <ar> sure, there are bugs. but it would be hard, if not impossible, to put a backdoor in there
[05:30:57] <keplr> Heartbleed?
[05:31:15] <keplr> A Linux OS is way more than just the kernel
[05:31:19] <ar> oh, now you're jumping from kernel to userland
[05:31:21] <ar> cool
[05:31:29] <ar> yes.
[05:32:13] <keplr> There is no safe way to do none air-gapped computing
[05:32:16] <ar> but on osx you can't even be sure that the kernel you're running has been built from unmodified available opensource code
[05:32:33] <keplr> You can't be sure of that with Linux either
[05:32:39] <swiss> wooo osx
[05:32:44] * swiss loves his osx
[05:32:54] <swiss> o-sex as i prefer to pronounce it
[05:33:19] <keplr> My point is that we should accept that everything is vulnerable, and then take extreme measures to protect what really matters.
[05:33:29] <ar> keplr: i can do a "git pull" and build the kernel. can you?
[05:33:44] <swiss> i like my computer to not make me feel like a sysadmin
[05:33:45] <keplr> The source of Darwin is actually available
[05:33:57] <ar> keplr: i can be sure that the code i get is the code that was, at the very least, looked at by some people
[05:33:59] <swiss> so i use osx
[05:34:11] <swiss> i like my phone to not make me feel like a beta tester
[05:34:14] <swiss> so i use iphone
[05:34:29] <keplr> ar: what if gcc has been compromised
[05:34:29] <swiss> i like my nas to work easy, so i use freenas
[05:34:34] <ar> swiss: how did you feel about alarms not working?
[05:34:41] <keplr> freenass++
[05:34:41] <Bender> karma - freenass: 1
[05:34:42] <ar> keplr: that would be easily catched
[05:34:43] <swiss> THAT HAPPENED THIS MORNING
[05:34:48] <swiss> for the first time
[05:34:53] <swiss> i blame you now
[05:35:24] <keplr> Heartbleed seemed simple but wasn't caught for years
[05:35:40] <swiss> time to go test usb on the TV
[05:35:50] <ar> keplr: that's because openssl had a broken development model
[05:36:22] <keplr> But that's an explanation for a specifc exploit, it doesn't mean it won't happen to Linux too
[05:36:50] <ar> and something as big as gcc modifying the output code... you can be pretty sure that doesn't happen
[05:40:30] <ar> swiss: you say you don't like being a beta tester... how do you feel about the numerous obvious bugs in ios8? some of them even prevented you from calling anyone, some were smaller like "i can't save a number that just called me as a new contact without resorting to copy-pasting the number"
[05:41:06] <swiss> i haven't experienced those
[05:41:21] <swiss> however, i did experience significant issues in android
[05:41:40] <swiss> i don't say everyone should switch
[05:41:46] <swiss> i think android is a cooler idea as an OS
[05:41:58] <swiss> but it doesn't fit my usecase, so I use an iphone
[05:42:15] <swiss> same reason i run ubuntu over gentoo, etc
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[05:52:49] <keplr> Well we can all agree that Christian Bale will be a great Steve Jobs
[05:54:55] <ar> a friend of mine, who's an apple fanboy, says that apple has went downhill ever since jobs died
[05:55:11] <keplr> I would agree
[05:55:32] <chromas> Christian Bale?
[05:55:42] <chromas> Is there going to be another movie?
[05:55:46] <keplr> And I am oinly an "Apple fanboy" in the sense that they are the last company making a decnet Unix notebook computer
[05:57:33] <keplr> There's going to be another movie.
[05:58:01] <chromas> Pirate of Silicon Valley 2: Cancer Strike Back
[05:58:08] <keplr> Too soon
[05:59:03] <ar> apple is making decent notebooks? with their glossy screens, chiclet keyboards, clickpads, lack of trackpoints and limited warranty options (i can get a worldwide on-site next-business-day warranty as an end user, not a business, from dell or lenovo; you can't get that from apple, outside of 7 or 9 us/canada cities) "decent" is one of the last thing that come to my mind when thinking about them
[05:59:44] <chromas> You're right; it doesn't need a sequel
[05:59:53] <keplr> I didn't know Dell and Lenovo made Unix notebooks
[06:00:37] <ar> but software is easier to replace than hardware
[06:02:10] <ar> and besides, dell sells linux notebooks. just not every model is not available with linux pre-loaded
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[06:03:11] <crutchy> coffee++
[06:03:11] <Bender> karma - coffee: 989
[06:03:12] soylentpoutine is now known as poutine
[06:03:14] <ar> (my notebook requirements made me buy an E7440, not one of those that are available with linux preloaded)
[06:04:22] <poutine> I have automated my home to the point where my crock pot is voice activated w/ 4 possible states via my wristwatch
[06:04:38] <swiss> poutine--
[06:04:38] <Bender> karma - poutine: -357
[06:04:40] <keplr> coffee++
[06:04:40] <Bender> karma - coffee: 990
[06:04:45] <swiss> coffee--
[06:04:45] <Bender> karma - coffee: 989
[06:04:45] <ar> coffee--
[06:04:45] <Bender> karma - coffee: 988
[06:04:48] <ar> tea++
[06:04:48] <Bender> karma - tea: 92
[06:04:54] <keplr> coffee++
[06:04:54] <Bender> karma - coffee: 989
[06:05:05] <keplr> coffee++
[06:05:05] <Bender> karma - coffee: 990
[06:05:14] <keplr> There is no spam filter! haha!
[06:05:29] <keplr> beer++
[06:05:29] <Bender> karma - beer: 15
[06:05:39] <keplr> beastialitty++
[06:05:39] <Bender> karma - beastialitty: 1
[06:05:45] <crutchy> pizza++
[06:05:45] <Bender> karma - pizza: 16
[06:05:56] <keplr> vegetarianism++
[06:05:56] <Bender> karma - vegetarianism: 1
[06:05:58] poutine is now known as poutine--
[06:06:03] * crutchy has nfi what's for dinner :/
[06:06:28] <crutchy> ~time
[06:06:29] <exec> Friday, 24 October 2014 @ 5:06 pm GMT+11 - Traralgon VIC, Australia
[06:06:29] <keplr> Choose a nice vegetarian menu
[06:06:31] <poutine--> poutine+=4000
[06:06:39] <keplr> It's more ethical
[06:07:07] <crutchy> i don't like ham on my pizza
[06:07:09] <poutine--> look at this uppity fool who thinks his dietary choices are a philosophy
[06:07:22] <crutchy> is hot salami ethical?
[06:07:50] <keplr> I can't think of anything more philosophically relevant than what you choose to use to keep your consciensce alive
[06:08:06] <crutchy> polluted_air++
[06:08:06] <Bender> karma - polluted_air: 1
[06:08:50] <keplr> tofu++
[06:08:50] <Bender> karma - tofu: 1
[06:09:01] <keplr> betamax++
[06:09:01] <Bender> karma - betamax: 1
[06:09:06] <poutine--> Well I'll continue enjoying dead cows, chickens, lamb, ducks, deer, quail, turkeys, fish, pigs, and maybe some dog from some of the more sketchy countries I've been to
[06:09:06] <ar> chocolate++
[06:09:06] <Bender> karma - chocolate: 7
[06:09:08] <crutchy> tofu_on_its_own--
[06:09:09] <Bender> karma - tofu_on_its_own: -1
[06:09:22] <keplr> I like tofu on its own >:(
[06:09:24] <crutchy> tofu_plus_soy_sauce++ # tolerable at least
[06:09:24] <Bender> karma - tofu_plus_soy_sauce: 1
[06:09:42] <poutine--> I've never seen a vegan who didn't look like he had cancer
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[06:09:58] <crutchy> tofu, soy sauce and onion sprouts are ok for a snak
[06:10:02] <poutine--> keplr, Do you have any pets?
[06:10:04] <crutchy> haven't had it for years
[06:10:09] <keplr> Then see me carnivorefag
[06:10:28] <keplr> I do BJJ motherfucker
[06:10:37] <crutchy> ~define bjj
[06:10:39] <exec> [urbandictionary] 3bjj: Acronym for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: A grappling martial art developed in Brazil based on Japanese Jiu-Jitsu. The general idea in BJJ is to first secure the best possible position on the ground, and then...
[06:10:47] <ar> i like vegetarian meals. they're at least trying to be more imaginative than regular ones
[06:10:57] <crutchy> urbandictionary++
[06:10:57] <Bender> karma - urbandictionary: 4
[06:11:09] <ar> regular ones tend to have taste of everything dominated by meat
[06:11:31] <keplr> It's definitely harder to body build as a vegetarian
[06:11:32] <ar> which is fine for a hamburger, but not for everything i want to eat
[06:11:32] * crutchy likes a big juicy steak smothered in pepper sauce :-D~~~~
[06:11:43] <poutine--> lots of single digit comment counts on frontpaged items on SN
[06:11:59] <keplr> I eat a lot of peanut butter and soy protein
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[06:13:11] <crutchy> http://soylentnews.org
[06:13:12] <NetCraft> ^ 04SN comment by Anonymous Coward
[06:13:45] <crutchy> PS it wasn't me. it was the last comment in the feed
[06:14:17] <keplr> I can do octo-lacto vegetarianism as an athlete
[06:14:38] <keplr> I couldn't do pure vegan
[06:15:01] <crutchy> are dim sims vegan?
[06:15:25] <poutine--> Does anyone honestly give a shit what keplr's dietary choices are?
[06:15:42] <keplr> Yes, we all do
[06:15:43] <poutine--> is this long tirade about it really what's interesting around these parts?
[06:15:57] <crutchy> i don't much, but food is an interesting discussion topic
[06:16:02] <crutchy> and i'm hungry :p
[06:16:08] <keplr> You are literally the only person who doesn't find it completely compelling
[06:16:10] <poutine--> yeah, if you don't restrict yourself to nuts and berries
[06:16:31] <poutine--> Eat a gigantic steak with every meal
[06:16:40] <crutchy> its more interesting than someone complaining about shit :D
[06:16:50] <crutchy> steak++
[06:16:50] <Bender> karma - steak: 3
[06:17:02] * crutchy could go a steak right about now
[06:17:04] <poutine--> I read other people's complaints
[06:17:07] <keplr> You should be asking for my grillden seitan recipe
[06:17:17] <poutine--> Maybe someone wants to read mine
[06:17:27] <crutchy> !karma poutine
[06:17:27] <Bender> karma of poutine is -357
[06:17:31] <crutchy> doubt it :p
[06:18:01] <crutchy> but i don't mind
[06:18:07] <keplr> Or someone should ask me why vegetarianism is ethically superior to veganism
[06:18:07] <crutchy> its all good :)
[06:18:27] <keplr> and I can defend it with the full weight of over four years of academic over education
[06:18:30] * crutchy is still wondering about the ethics of hot salami
[06:18:47] <keplr> hot salami, always ethical
[06:18:54] <keplr> that's the last word
[06:19:11] <crutchy> my pizza is always a custom with some weird stuff
[06:19:27] <ar> btw, remember my last night photo with -10C on the thermomether?
[06:19:29] <ar> http://wstaw.org
[06:19:29] <keplr> I bet the crust has milk in it
[06:19:36] <keplr> milk is evil
[06:20:12] <crutchy> ar, yeah fuck that
[06:20:17] * crutchy hates cold
[06:20:24] <crutchy> is that F or C?
[06:20:30] <crutchy> looks like might be C
[06:20:37] <keplr> First one then the other
[06:21:06] <ar> crutchy: C
[06:21:26] <poutine--> reading comprehension was never something crutchy excelled at
[06:21:48] <crutchy> could do a damper pizza base (sr flour, water and salt)
[06:22:17] <crutchy> poutine--, yeah i'll pay that. esp on friday arvo after work
[06:22:51] * crutchy speed reads a lot but not properly
[06:23:18] <crutchy> i think my brain just picks out words that look interesting and ignore the rest :p
[06:24:11] <poutine--> I think you're really overestimating the amount of activity going on in your brain during these events
[06:24:18] <crutchy> ar, is it really -14 deg C in the middle of a sunny day?
[06:24:21] <keplr> crutchy: boring. Psych students figured that out fifty years ago
[06:24:27] <ar> crutchy: it's 8AM
[06:25:09] <crutchy> keplr, wow does that make me as smart as a psych student?
[06:25:24] <crutchy> hmm not sure if i should take that as a compliment or not
[06:25:33] <keplr> crutchy: yes, but that shouldn't make you happy
[06:25:34] * crutchy kicks brain
[06:26:00] <crutchy> could be worse
[06:26:12] <keplr> And could be quite better
[06:26:16] <crutchy> at least you didn't mention liberal arts :d
[06:26:33] <crutchy> engineers don't like to think too much
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[06:29:15] <crutchy> this is really an awesome video: http://www.youtube.com
[06:29:16] <NetCraft> ^ 03PEWDIEPIE GOAT SIMULATOR SONG (with lyrics/sub-titles) SING ALONG - Pewds Goat Song - YouTube
[06:32:02] <chromas> crutchy: that means you could write a tv crime drama
[06:32:16] <crutchy> i could?
[06:32:49] <crutchy> i could call it "Valley of Goat Penises"
[06:32:51] <chromas> I'm pretty sure they're all written by psych majors who figured out their degrees were worthless
[06:33:36] <chromas> poutine++ # for meat mastery
[06:33:36] <Bender> karma - poutine: -356
[06:35:39] <crutchy> he pounds it till its tender
[06:51:15] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Scientists: Smelling Farts Prevents Cancer - http://sylnt.us - who-smelt-it-lives
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[08:28:15] <crutchy> pants++
[08:28:15] <Bender> karma - pants: -1
[08:28:32] <crutchy> panties--
[08:28:32] <Bender> karma - panties: -1
[08:33:19] <crutchy> work+pizza=sleepy
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[08:40:35] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Looking for a Mathematical Proof? - http://sylnt.us - beyond-reason
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[10:13:09] <crutchy> ~uid
[10:13:11] <exec> The current maximum UID is 4818, owned by dracovyrn
[10:20:51] <SirFinkus> road to 5k
[10:21:50] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Lone Lawyer Sues Obama, Alleging Illegality of Surveillance Programs - http://sylnt.us - classified-[redacted]-[redacted]-case-dismissed-[redacted]
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[12:01:04] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Extinction of Giant Shark Connected to an Increase in Size of Whales - http://sylnt.us - jumping-the-shark
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[12:02:42] <mattie_p> Morning folks
[12:03:28] <juggs> afternoon mattie_p o/ doing ok?
[12:04:12] <mattie_p> juggs. I'm doing great. Caught the partial eclipse yesterday, its Friday, I started a new job two weeks ago, life is good
[12:04:34] <juggs> good stuff
[12:04:46] <mattie_p> yup, how about yourself?
[12:09:22] <crutchy> coffee++
[12:09:22] <Bender> karma - coffee: 991
[12:09:33] <mattie_p> mmmm, coffee
[12:09:37] <mattie_p> coffee++
[12:09:37] <Bender> karma - coffee: 992
[12:09:47] <mattie_p> sup crutchy?
[12:10:10] <crutchy> not much mattie_p. pretty warm here today
[12:10:22] <mattie_p> not so much here, another cool overcast day
[12:10:49] <crutchy> almost saturday
[12:10:55] <crutchy> nice
[12:10:59] <mattie_p> indeed
[12:11:08] <crutchy> ~time
[12:12:02] * crutchy has a big pedestal fan going to cool down
[12:12:17] -!- exec [exec!~exec@709-27-2-01.cust.aussiebb.net] has joined #Soylent
[12:12:40] <crutchy> not quite hot enough yet for a/c
[12:17:11] <chromas> Shouldn't you be mid-spring now?
[12:17:38] <crutchy> ~weather
[12:17:39] <exec> Weather for Traralgon VIC, Australia - currently 60°F / 16°C, clear, wind NW at 8 mph, humidity 99% - Friday fog (54°F-84°F / 12°C-29°C), Saturday mostly cloudy (48°F-70°F / 9°C-21°C), Sunday mostly cloudy (52°F-75°F / 11°C-24°C), Monday chance of rain (45°F-61°F / 7°C-16°C) - source: Google
[12:17:40] <Konomi> australia doesn't have a spring
[12:17:48] <Konomi> just a cold and omg I am burning alive seasons
[12:18:29] <crutchy> my house is crap too
[12:18:38] <mattie_p> Hi Konomi
[12:18:38] <ciri> hey whats up mattie_p
[12:18:48] <Konomi> same for the one I live in
[12:18:50] <Konomi> weatherboard crap
[12:19:08] <crutchy> ciri is a doby baby shid-eader
[12:19:44] <mattie_p> aww, don't talk bad about ciri
[12:19:59] * mattie_p pats ciri on the head.
[12:20:04] <crutchy> kick the ciri
[12:20:20] <mattie_p> that's a throwback reference... wow
[12:20:31] <crutchy> oops not *that* sort of kick, yeah :d
[12:21:30] <chromas> I said that to my youngest niece once and and had the exact reply
[12:22:41] <crutchy> ike++
[12:22:41] <Bender> karma - ike: 1
[12:24:11] <crutchy> didn't get a reserved data alias working yet so i could flood your #debug channel chromas
[12:24:19] <crutchy> pooey bot :/
[12:26:55] <chromas> Aw. Channels feel empty without botflood
[12:32:05] <crutchy> todo tomorrow: fix bot
[13:04:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[13:04:04] <Bender> karma - coffee: 993
[13:12:39] <paulej72> coffee++
[13:12:39] <Bender> karma - coffee: 994
[13:12:59] <AndyTheAbsurd> coffee++
[13:12:59] <Bender> karma - coffee: 995
[13:13:00] <AndyTheAbsurd> coffee++
[13:13:00] <Bender> karma - coffee: 996
[13:13:01] <AndyTheAbsurd> coffee++
[13:13:01] <Bender> karma - coffee: 997
[13:13:02] <AndyTheAbsurd> coffee++
[13:13:02] <Bender> karma - coffee: 998
[13:13:03] <AndyTheAbsurd> coffee++
[13:13:03] <Bender> karma - coffee: 999
[13:13:16] <AndyTheAbsurd> because it's 666 upside down.
[13:16:39] <paulej72> coffee++
[13:16:39] <Bender> karma - coffee: 1000
[13:16:52] <paulej72> because 1k is better
[13:23:35] <crutchy> until we get to 1024
[13:25:47] <crutchy> if anyone's interested, the WikiRC bot that usually lives in #wiki seems to have carked it
[13:26:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> nice
[13:28:24] <crutchy> been doing some arty farty shit: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[13:28:25] <NetCraft> ^ 04Wiki: 03IRC:exec
[13:31:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> workin on a new filter for textarea areas that precisely encodes only what needs to be encoded for a <textarea>
[13:32:10] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - US Tech Firm Fined for Underpaying Indian Workers - http://sylnt.us - skilled-labour-not-cheap-labour
[13:32:32] <crutchy> not sure i follow tmb
[13:33:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> trying to go through and pare down some double encoding wherever possible
[13:33:18] <crutchy> ah
[13:33:28] <crutchy> for the preview thingy
[13:33:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> for the everything eventually
[13:33:48] <Blackmoore> mornin
[13:34:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin, Blackmoore
[13:34:14] <crutchy> i usually just double-decode everything exec reads off the web
[13:34:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> Me, I want the bloody twitter feed to not have encodings showing
[13:35:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> it annoys the hell out of me
[13:35:22] <crutchy> can you double-decode content from the db?
[13:35:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> beats me. i dunno what handles the twitter feed
[13:36:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> but i don't wanna hafta put a hack in there and i'd like to remove the hack i put in for rss/atom feeds
[13:36:08] <crutchy> guessing there's nothing as simple as twatter.pm then
[13:36:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, i got the notion in my head that it's part of bender for some reason
[13:36:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> could very well be wrong though.
[13:36:51] <crutchy> maybe
[13:37:09] <crutchy> bender's got his little feed goin on
[13:37:43] * crutchy remembers when 'rad' was a cool word
[13:39:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> huh, i need an encode_html_amp_ifent
[13:40:28] <crutchy> php has an awesome little function: html_entity_decode($content,ENT_QUOTES,"UTF-8")
[13:40:42] <crutchy> oh woops you said 'en'code
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[13:51:34] <paulej72> It is bender who does twitter
[13:52:17] <crutchy> bender++
[13:52:17] <Bender> karma - bender: -6
[13:52:46] <crutchy> ~queue
[13:52:49] <exec> *** SN submission queue: 12 - http://sylnt.us
[13:56:34] <Azrael> we need to move some of the things that have been sitting in queue for too long ... ignored as not good enough but not deleted for being too bad ... makes the queue look too healthy
[13:57:56] <crutchy> we need a far queue where all the dodgy submits can be shoved
[13:58:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> excellent, got that down
[13:59:16] <Azrael> we have a hold area.. usually that's where I put stuff to delete if I'm too insecure about actually deleting things ;)
[14:01:27] <crutchy> could just rename the hold area as the 'fucket bucket' (cos 'recycle bin' is taken)
[14:04:27] <Azrael> that's a plan!
[14:05:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, pull request updated with a new example filter specifically for textareas
[14:07:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's currently on my vm too if you wanna test it out
[14:09:19] <paulej72> Excpet that breaks html input
[14:09:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> does it? i only checked plaintext
[14:10:27] <paulej72> you encoded the < >
[14:11:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod i thought that would bugger it up too but it seems to be okay.
[14:11:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> double testing though
[14:11:29] <paulej72> do mulitple previews
[14:11:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> still shows good to me on html
[14:12:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> but then i'm only checking on FF
[14:13:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm, appears to break in chrome but not ff
[14:14:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, link still breaks in ff. my bad
[14:14:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> will tweak some more
[14:15:31] <paulej72> well, I am not sure why that should work, I want to trace what is going on with these bits of code before I fully sign off. what you have done should break the html code bad in the preview. There must be a decode somewhere hidden in the code.
[14:15:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh no, it's fine. i was missing a "
[14:16:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, it's apparently decoded by the browser
[14:16:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> can check with curl though real quick
[14:16:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh wait, no i can't. that'd be a hell of a postdata request to fake up
[14:17:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, the browser is getting it encoded and then rendering it to the textarea. it's not our decode happening.
[14:18:15] <paulej72> browser should not be rendering &lt;a$gt; as a vailid <a> tag, so someithing is getting decoded along the way.
[14:18:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> &lt;abbr title="foo"&gt;bar&lt;/abbr&gt; is what i get in the source
[14:19:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> dunno why browsers would render html between textarea tags but they do
[14:19:34] <paulej72> not in the textarea but the preview
[14:19:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> so when you hit preview there's no double encoding cause the browser decoded it.
[14:20:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> on ya, we don't do encoding of the <>s for the preview i don't think. lemme check
[14:20:26] <paulej72> preview sees vaild html so the endcodes are being decoded
[14:21:05] <paulej72> but we are submitting encoded html in the textarea.
[14:21:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> nope, the browser decodes it
[14:21:50] <paulej72> it should be given out as encoded text, unless there is some voodoo with form submission
[14:21:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> so what is submitted is literal characters
[14:22:47] <paulej72> need to red up on this a bit, because If we can get this to work, then we should be able to fix a lot of broken shit
[14:22:57] <paulej72> read
[14:22:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, s'what i'm hoping
[14:24:27] <paulej72> have you tried using the same filter on the subject and see what it does?
[14:25:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> not yet, i know we don't do that on the sub titles because of they're also links and it buggers up the title="foo" bit
[14:25:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> lemme swap it real quick and redeploy
[14:26:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> should more or less be the same since the filters used for rendering a preview are different from the ones used for giving it back to your editable text area
[14:27:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> appears to work there too
[14:28:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> i think it's a just a case of they were using overly broad categories rather than tailoring filters to the actual input
[14:30:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> have one weirdness, can't put a link in a subject and have it come back right in the text box.
[14:30:59] <paulej72> The filter does not work for <input> as the “ needs encoded. Should we create a special input filter, or just use the attribute filter as it would end up nearly the same.
[14:31:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> or quotes at all for that matter
[14:31:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> roger doger, just figured that out myself.
[14:32:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> back to strip_attribute for you, postersubj
[14:33:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, s'all good that way
[14:33:27] <paulej72> the other thing we must do with titles and ohter one inputs is make sure that where ever we use them that we encode the display of them so that html is not rendered even if we save it to the db that way
[14:33:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> gimme a sec to parse that
[14:34:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, we generally use strip_notags on them
[14:34:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> for preview/display
[14:34:48] <paulej72> I wonder if we should just make a strip_input filter so the code is more sane. Even if it is a duplicate, it makes more sense to have the filters mean something
[14:35:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> you don't like names like anchor, attribute, literal? whyever not?
[14:35:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> </sarc>
[14:35:56] <paulej72> strip_notags is too harsh as it deletes the html. I would rather encode < > & and “
[14:36:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm, guess we could. would allow more diversity anyway.
[14:37:04] <paulej72> that is how the tilte in subs is now working, but it encodes it as it goes into the db.
[14:37:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> don't think & needs encoded though
[14:37:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> it what? that's insanity
[14:38:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> anyway, we can leave the &s alone. they shouldn't cause any problems in titles.
[14:38:34] <paulej72> TheMightyBuzzard: I am using strip_attribute to encode. There are so many places in the templates where the db data is not run through a filter that it seemed safer at the time
[14:39:05] <paulej72> And it is done all over the code
[14:39:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, it prolly is but it makes knowing what the user actually wanted shown near impossible.
[14:39:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean, did they put in an &, &amp; &#x26; &amp;amp;?
[14:40:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> and exactly how many times do we need to decode it later?
[14:40:42] <paulej72> I really do not care what the user wanted, I care about the site not being broken bcause some asshat put in a buch of </div> tags in the wrong field.
[14:41:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> which is all fine and good but i'd like our eds to be able to put text in a title or dept in a knowable way.
[14:42:27] <paulej72> yes and the way is no html allowed, but the tags can be used so a tilte can be “W3C recommends use of <blink>”
[14:42:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm pretty sure we can catch all the spots in the templates where stuff needs filtered. may take a while but still.
[14:42:50] <paulej72> ~400 templates :)
[14:42:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> grep-fu
[14:43:06] <paulej72> it will take some time to get it all cleaned up.
[14:43:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, prolly like a week.
[14:43:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> maybe two
[14:43:36] <paulej72> And there are probably places that were never done correctly in the first place.
[14:43:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep, which would be good to find.
[14:44:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> for the most part i think we have things properly, or at least properly-ish, filtered on output.
[14:44:33] <paulej72> Then we can git rid of filtering before the data enters the db, except encode_high_bits
[14:45:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> thought we got rid of that one back in the unicode rollout and replaced the necessary logic into approve_unicode
[14:45:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> but i know what ya mean
[14:47:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh and just for the record, balanceTags can slightly eat my ass. it buggers up ul/ol nested lists something fierce.
[14:47:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'd rather strip it down to bare necessities and leave it to the user to be able to write proper html.
[14:48:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> basically just close any open tags at the end of user supplied data
[14:48:42] <paulej72> sure it does, as it was a poor system to begin with.
[14:49:40] <paulej72> the issue we need to deal with as well is to mke sure we remove invalid tags and extra closing tags as they may break the page when rendered correctly.
[14:49:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> not for me to work on right now but just in theory, do we want to hold users' hands and make their html all proper for them or let them screw up if they're gonna?
[14:50:28] <paulej72> Also I want to fix the plain text filter to render the text with <p> tags rather than <br> tags
[14:51:00] <paulej72> As long as we only let them break thier comment not the page.
[14:51:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, zactly
[14:51:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> protect the page not the users' feelings about their coding skills.
[14:54:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> ima put an issue up about that
[14:56:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://github.com
[14:56:56] <NetCraft> ^ 03balanceTags rewrite · Issue #376 · SoylentNews/slashcode · GitHub
[14:59:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, ima dick off the rest of the morning now.
[15:00:25] <juggs> good plan sir
[15:01:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> i thought so. got some quality thinking and debating done as well as some good code. time to celebrate, celebrate, dance to the music.
[15:11:24] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Adobe Spies on Readers: Every DRM Page Turn Leaked to Base Over SSL - http://sylnt.us - every-page-you-read-we'll-be-watching-you
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[16:40:30] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Superstring Theorist at University of Florida Wins 2015 Heineman Prize - http://sylnt.us - vibrating-strings
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[17:48:59] <JamesNZ> fedora++
[17:48:59] <Bender> karma - fedora: 41
[17:49:01] <JamesNZ> fedora++
[17:49:01] <Bender> karma - fedora: 42
[17:49:08] <JamesNZ> \o/
[17:51:53] <Blackmoore> coffee++
[17:51:53] <Bender> karma - coffee: 1001
[17:52:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[17:52:03] <Bender> karma - coffee: 1002
[17:52:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> actually...
[17:52:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> coke++
[17:52:12] <Bender> karma - coke: 2
[18:05:49] <Leebert> I swear I just keep getting older; is this waitress even out of middle school yet?!
[18:11:35] <Blackmoore> doh. well if she's skipping middle school to work you better tip her well.
[18:11:38] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Climate Change Causing Mountain Goats to Shrink - http://sylnt.us - change-begets-change
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[19:12:24] <swiss> noooo
[19:12:29] <swiss> coffee--
[19:12:29] <Bender> karma - coffee: 1001
[19:12:31] <swiss> coffee--
[19:12:31] <Bender> karma - coffee: 1000
[19:12:32] <swiss> coffee--
[19:12:32] <Bender> karma - coffee: 999
[19:12:34] <swiss> coffee--
[19:12:34] <Bender> karma - coffee: 998
[19:12:47] <swiss> how horrid, that it got to 4 digits
[19:13:05] <Blackmoore> coffee++
[19:13:05] <Bender> karma - coffee: 999
[19:13:07] <Blackmoore> coffee++
[19:13:07] <Bender> karma - coffee: 1000
[19:13:13] <Blackmoore> tsk tsk
[19:14:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> haters gonna hate, yo
[19:27:54] <Blackmoore> wonder if i should mainline caffine or alcohol.
[19:29:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> why not both?
[19:31:03] <chromas> Kafkahol
[19:31:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> rum n coke
[19:40:44] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Retrospective: Core Wars - http://sylnt.us - teach-me-sensei
[19:42:08] <swiss> QQ
[19:42:10] <paulej72> what is that drink with RedBull in it
[19:42:26] <swiss> jager bomb?
[19:50:41] <Azrael> paulej72: Red Bull?
[19:51:33] <weeds> Cherry Bomb Ingredients: Vodka Red Bull
[19:51:39] <paulej72> http://www.barnonedrinks.com
[19:51:57] <weeds> http://www.boozemixer.com
[19:51:58] <NetCraft> ^ 03Drink Recipes made with Red Bull
[20:02:46] <paulej72> I never drank a Red Bull, I think my heart would assplode
[20:04:12] <Blackmoore> meh. really isnt all that. might be a bit more than mnt dew
[20:04:20] <Blackmoore> sure tastes better tho
[20:10:31] <juggs> vodka + red bull is a winner if you start to flag on an unusually long night out. At least it did when I was doing such things... been a good few years since I was doing that malarkey.
[20:12:01] <paulej72> OK I am out of here for now. bbl
[20:13:11] <mattie_p> Later paulej72!
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[20:47:41] <arti> lol
[20:47:47] <arti> "what is the drink with redbull in it"
[20:51:35] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Manned Mars Mission Radiation Danger Increasing - http://sylnt.us - in-space-noone-can-hear-you-cook
[20:52:53] <chromas> Bender: s/-/-peter-/5
[20:52:54] <SedBot9000> <chromas> <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Manned Mars Mission Radiation Danger Increasing - http://sylnt.us - in-space-peter-noone-can-hear-you-cook
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[21:50:19] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Blood-Brain Barrier Opened (On Demand) For The First Time In Human Patients: - http://sylnt.us - it's-alive!-it's-alive!
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[22:27:33] <Blackmoore> gnight all - have a good weekend
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[22:51:25] <crutchy> ~php str_replace
[22:51:26] <exec> mixed str_replace( mixed $search , mixed $replace , mixed $subject [, int &$count] )
[23:10:59] <crutchy> ~time chicago
[23:11:00] <exec> Friday, 24 October 2014 @ 6:11 pm CDT - Chicago, IL
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[23:22:00] <juggs> http://www.bbc.co.uk
[23:22:01] <NetCraft> ^ 03BBC News - Google's Alan Eustace beats Baumgartner's skydiving record
[23:23:09] <juggs> props to a 57 y/o doing >1300kmh falling from a ballon :D
[23:24:58] <crutchy> 1300 kmh!
[23:25:48] <crutchy> air must have been pretty thin
[23:26:55] <swiss> he had his spacesuit on
[23:26:59] <juggs> 135,890 feet - yah - there's not a great deal to slow you down at that elevation
[23:27:33] <juggs> swiss, walk in the park then...
[23:27:44] * crutchy has an epiphany!
[23:28:15] <juggs> use something other than pascal?
[23:28:32] <swiss> i meant about the air
[23:29:02] <crutchy> we've been doing it all wrong. its not really friction that causes heat during reentry, its that the earth doesn't like being donkey punched by a blob ship
[23:29:24] <crutchy> we should be going to space in balloons and spacesuits
[23:31:33] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Only Dedicated Comet-Spotting Program in Southern Hemisphere Shuts Down - http://sylnt.us - cosmic-billiards
[23:31:44] <juggs> If I read it right - it was ~2.5hours on the way up attached to a helium balloon then ~4.5 minutes of freefall. I just like that he went and did it without the Red Bull hype. But then if you have google $$ as I am sure he does it's just another thing to cross of the list.
[23:32:02] <juggs> off*
[23:32:32] * crutchy is surprised there's no dedicated comet spotting program in australia
[23:32:45] <swiss> google money is so good
[23:32:52] <crutchy> maybe to register on "lists" it has to be government or corporate
[23:32:53] <chromas> crutchy: add a script to exec
[23:33:25] <crutchy> non-profits don't count
[23:33:57] <crutchy> there's a few nfp orgs in australia that do spacey shit
[23:34:21] <juggs> I like the idea of just doing something just because it is there to be done - no other reason. Now if we can solve poverty the world over and end all wars I'll be happier still.
[23:35:11] * juggs pinholes all swiss' vac lines :P
[23:35:22] <crutchy> only way to solve poverty is for everyone to be poor
[23:35:52] <juggs> depends how we define poverty
[23:36:14] <crutchy> poverty is generally defined as struggling to feed oneself
[23:36:49] <swiss> juggs: what a dick~
[23:36:51] <crutchy> only americans define it as not having a big enough tv :p
[23:37:02] <swiss> juggs: i just replaced all of them too
[23:37:21] * juggs hands swiss the samco brochure
[23:37:34] <swiss> i already have samco hoses :P
[23:37:56] <juggs> blue ones no doubt - or are they out of favour now?
[23:38:05] <swiss> black ones with blue innards
[23:38:09] <chromas> crutchy: are you saying 640" ought to be enough for everybody?
[23:38:22] <crutchy> 512"
[23:38:30] <chromas> fuck you
[23:38:39] <swiss> i just bought a 40"
[23:38:46] <crutchy> i have a 32"
[23:38:49] <chromas> If I don't have to put it outside and watch it through the front window then it's not big enough
[23:38:56] <swiss> it was a nice cheap costco one
[23:39:00] <swiss> and it is exactly what i wanted
[23:39:04] <swiss> CEC without smartTV
[23:39:49] <crutchy> mine was just a plain old lcd a few years ago that cost about $1500
[23:40:04] <swiss> $300 for mine
[23:40:04] <crutchy> dunno what size can get now for that moneys
[23:40:16] <swiss> 50" version is like $500
[23:40:50] <crutchy> prolly cos 4k is out
[23:40:57] <swiss> no, $430
[23:41:06] <swiss> and it's cause it's not smart
[23:41:08] <crutchy> everyone trying to dump their stock of older models
[23:41:13] <swiss> http://www.costco.com(49.5%22-Diag.)-1080p-LED-HDTV-50K20DG.product.100096137.html
[23:41:14] <juggs> is anyone broadcasting / streaming 4K?
[23:41:35] <swiss> youtube!
[23:41:36] <crutchy> computer monitors now seem to be 4k by default apparently
[23:42:05] <crutchy> stores prolly look at you sideways if you say you want something "less"
[23:42:08] <juggs> probably some interpolated bollocks
[23:42:44] <crutchy> my work is looking at a new machine with a 34" screen or something
[23:42:55] <crutchy> shit is getting redikerous
[23:42:57] <ciri> cow shit, horse shit, dog shit, cat shit. what kind of shit is it?
[23:42:57] <juggs> 640x480 @ 4K - 4K Ready!
[23:43:53] <juggs> ciri, it is ciri shit
[23:44:15] <crutchy> could make a video wall out of old lcd screens and call it 4k
[23:45:28] <chromas> 4k++ # for desktops
[23:45:28] <Bender> karma - 4k: 1
[23:45:55] <juggs> Are we still supposed to be buying curved screens? Or is there a new 3D something that is unmissable? I kinda lost track.
[23:46:17] <crutchy> wouldn't mind having this for programming in gedit: http://www.flatpanelshd.com
[23:46:42] <juggs> whatever work for you
[23:47:02] -!- blackmoore [blackmoore!~ac3822b8@Soylent/Staff/Editor/Blackmoore] has joined #Soylent
[23:47:02] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v blackmoore] by juggler
[23:47:12] <chromas> whatever happened to pico projectors in phones?
[23:47:33] <blackmoore> hi?
[23:47:43] <chromas> must not've been cool enough
[23:47:48] <chromas> hey blackmoore
[23:48:11] <crutchy> years ago when i bought my telly i was thinking about a projector instead of an lcd, but cost of new lamps and short lamp life turned me off
[23:48:41] <crutchy> would have only got a cheap projector for a couple of k maybe
[23:48:42] <chromas> need scanning laser projector
[23:48:49] <chromas> not sure if that's how pico projectors work
[23:48:49] <crutchy> better ones no doubt have better lamps
[23:49:03] <crutchy> yeah prolly much better tech out now
[23:49:15] <blackmoore> nope can't do this on the new phone
[23:49:30] <juggs> the way this is going, we're all going to turn into "that guy"
[23:49:51] <crutchy> can prolly get laser or led projectors now, or shark projectors with lasers on them
[23:50:11] <chromas> that's one way to get tanked
[23:50:11] -!- blackmoore has quit [Client Quit]
[23:50:32] <crutchy> just don't get bitten by the price
[23:51:04] <chromas> tortilla_pizza++
[23:51:04] <Bender> karma - tortilla_pizza: 1
[23:51:28] <swiss> led projector
[23:51:44] <swiss> i have a projector from like 5 years ago
[23:51:46] <swiss> it's still nice
[23:52:03] <swiss> not high res
[23:52:19] <chromas> are they ever?
[23:52:28] <swiss> they have 4k projectors
[23:52:32] <chromas> they used to only go up to 800x600 or something
[23:52:37] <swiss> mines 832x624
[23:52:57] <chromas> What are the extra pixels for?
[23:53:07] <swiss> magic
[23:53:16] <chromas> ah
[23:56:13] * chromas compares graphical email clients for Linux
[23:56:51] <Leebert> Huh. Apparently my desk is NOT made of paper. And it's a very good thing that Netflix doesn't charge late fees. Because I'm pretty sure the paper stratum I found this DVD in dates back to early summer...
[23:57:34] <chromas> from several years ago, when optical discs were still used
[23:57:52] <Leebert> I use 'em. Granted, I image the ISOs to watch them.