#Soylent | Logs for 2014-09-11

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[00:00:09] <juggs> $burrito SpallsHurgenson
[00:00:09] * aqu4 chucks a nasty, rotten burrito at SpallsHurgenson
[00:00:20] -!- idetuxs [idetuxs!~idetuxs@103-119-070-023.prima.net.ar] has joined #Soylent
[00:02:19] <SpallsHurgenson> mmm, fresh from Taco Bell
[00:05:38] <SpallsHurgenson> interestingly, that last sentence was the first time in history that "Fresh" and "Taco Bell" were used in the same sentence together :)
[00:06:28] <juggs> I've never had the (dis)pleasure of sampling taco bell - is it truly awful?
[00:07:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> http://www.cnbc.com
[00:07:08] <monopoly> ^ 03Apple stock downgraded on iPhone 6, Watch concerns
[00:08:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> juggs, as far as proper mexican food goes, yes. it's quick, easy, and inoffensive until the next time you have to go to the bathroom though.
[00:09:51] <juggs> I'll make a note to give it a miss if the opportunity arises :)
[00:09:57] <AndyTheAbsurd> TheMightyBuzzard: I've never - I mean *never* - had bathroom issues after eating Tace Bell. And I know several other people who are the same. So it's kind of...individual.
[00:10:20] <AndyTheAbsurd> juggs: It's not that bad, it's basically just fast food pretending to be Mexican food.
[00:10:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> AndyTheAbsurd, i've seen a guy clear a house for over half an hour after eating it all during finals week.
[00:11:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> but yeah, it's fast food not mexican food. the tacos are pretty much tacos though and relatively safe.
[00:14:59] * SpallsHurgenson debates the pros and cons of ordering a pizza
[00:15:10] <chromas> which is how you know it's not authentic
[00:51:54] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Word "Edges" Important for Language Acquisition - http://sylnt.us - laguange-eolves
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[01:13:05] * SpallsHurgenson watches a terrible movie to go with his terrible dinner
[01:34:31] <chromas> Under the Skin?
[01:35:12] <chromas> "Not that terrible!"
[01:37:14] <SpallsHurgenson> the 2012 remake of Red Dawn
[01:48:03] <SpallsHurgenson> there's no chemistry between any of these characters. the action is okay, except I don't really care about any of the players.
[01:51:27] <mrcoolbp> holy crap the oort clout is huge: http://htwins.net
[01:51:28] <monopoly> ^ 03The Scale of the Universe 2
[01:53:12] <mrcoolbp> I love looking at that thing every year or so
[01:53:23] <SpallsHurgenson> mostly empty space though.
[01:54:40] <mrcoolbp> Yeah someone once put it to me: "if most of matter is actually empty space, electrons 'render' the universe"
[01:55:47] <SpallsHurgenson> still, "island hopping" between ice-chunks may be one way we become homo-interstellaris
[01:56:59] <mrcoolbp> I'm just hoping we figure something out before earth is un-inhabitable, the latter seems an eventuality, the former is still going to take some work
[01:57:25] <SpallsHurgenson> "uninhabitable for us" ftfy :)
[01:57:30] <mrcoolbp> ah thx
[01:57:57] <mrcoolbp> cockroaches, alligators, and Cher will still be around for millenia
[01:58:08] <SpallsHurgenson> we might not make it, but give it another two hundred million years and somebody else might have a chance :)
[01:58:19] <mrcoolbp> likely Cher
[01:58:23] <SpallsHurgenson> unless of course we turn Earth into a new Venus :)
[01:58:44] <mrcoolbp> well, that's worst-case
[01:58:56] <SpallsHurgenson> oh no, there are worser worse cases :)
[01:59:22] <SpallsHurgenson> we could piss off the Higgs particle and unravel space and time :)
[01:59:24] <mrcoolbp> even full-on thermo-nuclear war isn't as bad as venus as I understand
[01:59:55] <mrcoolbp> Spalls: that's why all LHC scientist are instructed to be *really* nice to higgs'
[02:00:58] <mrcoolbp> which I pronounce "higg-ses-ses"
[02:01:00] <SpallsHurgenson> and they have signs everywhere that read "Please Do Not Poke Higgs with the 100GEV electric-prod"
[02:01:25] <SpallsHurgenson> and also, "Please Do Not Invent a 100GEV electric-prod"
[02:01:28] <mrcoolbp> "but feel free to slam 13MeV protons into them"
[02:01:50] <SpallsHurgenson> well, that just tickles :)
[02:02:00] <mrcoolbp> Naturally.
[02:02:17] <mrcoolbp> I take a nice shower in those every morning
[02:02:51] <SpallsHurgenson> actually, I wonder what would happen if I got hit by one. Probably just slice through me and I'd never even notice
[02:03:37] <mrcoolbp> proton? could do some damage I'd think at 13MeV
[02:03:53] <mrcoolbp> plus they use a stream of like 123981732109872109873 of them
[02:04:01] <mrcoolbp> "pulses" of them I think
[02:04:10] <SpallsHurgenson> I dunno, lots of energy but unlikely to hit anything
[02:04:22] <SpallsHurgenson> yeah, but I'm not standing in front of a stream of 'em, just one :)
[02:05:02] <mrcoolbp> SpallsHurgenson: we could test it out
[02:05:14] <mrcoolbp> or...maybe we should submit a "What If?
[02:05:19] <mrcoolbp> to Randall
[02:05:31] <SpallsHurgenson> yes! to Randall!
[02:05:36] * SpallsHurgenson has no idea who Randall is
[02:06:40] <SpallsHurgenson> but I am totally sure he (or they) could answer it
[02:06:40] <mrcoolbp> Randall Munroe
[02:06:50] <mrcoolbp> https://what-if.xkcd.com
[02:06:51] <monopoly> ^ 03All the Money
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[02:08:24] * mrcoolbp removes the metal handles from a chinese takeout box and places entire box in microwave
[02:08:36] * SpallsHurgenson has nuked chinese with the handles
[02:08:59] <mrcoolbp> spalls: trying to generate 13MeV protons or something?
[02:09:23] <SpallsHurgenson> IIRC, the problem is less the microwave and more that the metal tends to heat up really fast and burn the food :)
[02:09:42] <mrcoolbp> no, it creates electric arcing
[02:11:07] <SpallsHurgenson> ooh, video http://gizmodo.com :)
[02:11:18] <mrcoolbp> nice, lemme check
[02:13:44] <SpallsHurgenson> damnit, nothing definitive :)
[02:14:03] <mrcoolbp> yeah, they're not sure
[02:14:10] <SpallsHurgenson> http://www.popsci.com
[02:14:16] -!- rand has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[02:16:02] <SpallsHurgenson> and even more: http://www.askamathematician.com
[02:18:09] <mrcoolbp> "A Russian nuclear scientist named Anatoli Bugorski, who at the time was working through his PhD at the U-70 synchrotron (which has approximately 1% of the LHC’s maximum power), was kind enough to accidentally put his head in the path of a proton beam."
[02:18:18] <SpallsHurgenson> obviously a pressing question in the minds of many people... why aren't Scientists (tm) working to solve this mystery?
[02:18:31] <mrcoolbp> "He’s doing pretty well these days (considering)...he still managed to finish his PhD."
[02:21:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - New Motor Under Development by UW-Madison Spinoff - http://sylnt.us - not-entirely-new
[02:38:40] <SpallsHurgenson> I feel like shooting something (virtually)
[02:40:07] <monopoly> bot target practice
[02:42:43] <SpallsHurgenson> we need a new mechwarrior game
[02:48:02] <SpallsHurgenson> or at least get Mechwarrior 3 running on modern PCs :)
[02:48:04] -!- Ethanol-fueled [Ethanol-fueled!~62b0cd4b@rt07-380-414-91.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #Soylent
[02:48:30] <mrcoolbp> Spalls: I think I might go play some TF2 actually = )
[02:48:49] <Ethanol-fueled> 'sup.
[02:49:07] <mrcoolbp> 'sdown?
[02:50:31] <Ethanol-fueled> mrcoolbp, your name is the color of beer...or piss.
[02:50:40] <Ethanol-fueled> Heeheeheehawhaw!
[02:50:51] <mrcoolbp> nah, I use green highlightinh
[02:51:23] <Ethanol-fueled> How's errything going?
[02:51:59] <mrcoolbp> not bad sir
[02:52:06] <mrcoolbp> howz youz?
[02:52:49] <Ethanol-fueled> Chuggin' along. Keep on Truckin'.
[02:52:58] <mrcoolbp> yah man.
[02:53:23] <Ethanol-fueled> Found out one of my long-lost childhood friends lives a couple blocks away, just moved there.
[02:53:37] <Ethanol-fueled> Gonna have a few beers with him after this goddamn homework is done.
[02:53:49] <mrcoolbp> gl with that
[02:53:51] <mrcoolbp> think I'm going to go kill some cell-shaded snipers
[02:54:02] <Ethanol-fueled> team fartress?
[02:54:44] <mrcoolbp> yar
[03:15:50] -!- Ethanol-fueled has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
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[03:45:11] <arti> tf++
[03:45:11] <Bender> karma - tf: 1
[03:45:26] <arti> megatf? i think that was the one
[03:56:03] <mrcoolbp> arti: uh...
[03:56:22] <arti> for quake
[04:10:23] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Radio on a Chip and the Internet Of Things - http://sylnt.us - damn-I-dropped-it...
[04:50:10] <SpallsHurgenson> hmmm... good to see the #channel is still exactly as I left it :)
[04:50:28] -!- SpallsHurgenson has quit [Quit: now don't go changin' on me]
[05:51:38] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - UK National Health Service Dumps Oracle For FOSS NoSQL - http://sylnt.us - anything-but-oracle
[06:23:36] <ar> http://code.google.com
[06:23:37] <monopoly> ^ 03sshfsmux - Have fun with your data and let SSHFS-MUX/GMount rock! - Google Project Hosting
[07:23:43] -!- crutchy [crutchy!~crutchy@709-27-2-01.cust.aussiebb.net] has joined #Soylent
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[07:24:35] <crutchy> coffee++
[07:24:35] <Bender> karma - coffee: 773
[07:32:23] <JamesNZ> coffee--
[07:32:23] <Bender> karma - coffee: 772
[07:32:23] <JamesNZ> coffee--
[07:32:24] <Bender> karma - coffee: 771
[07:32:24] <JamesNZ> coffee--
[07:32:24] <Bender> karma - coffee: 770
[07:32:32] <chromas> coffee++ patrol
[07:32:32] <Bender> karma - coffee: 771
[07:32:35] <JamesNZ> ~gday crutchy
[07:32:35] <chromas> coffee++ petrol
[07:32:35] <Bender> karma - coffee: 772
[07:32:36] <exec> * JamesNZ brazenly passes a wine flute of beer to crutchy
[07:32:38] <chromas> coffee++ poo
[07:32:38] <Bender> karma - coffee: 773
[07:34:04] <JamesNZ> crutchy: I get the feeling you sip some coffee everytime you ++ it :P
[07:34:38] <crutchy> sometimes :D
[07:35:11] <crutchy> been drinking a fair bit of coffee machine coffee lately. its good
[07:35:46] <crutchy> ~queue
[07:35:50] <exec> *** SN submission queue: 15 - http://sylnt.us
[08:01:15] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Stonehenge Secrets Revealed by Underground Map - http://sylnt.us - 5000-years-ago
[08:06:23] * juggs yawns sleepily
[08:06:26] <juggs> tea++
[08:06:26] <Bender> karma - tea: 53
[08:16:58] <swiss> coffee--
[08:16:58] <Bender> karma - coffee: 772
[08:17:05] <swiss> coffee--
[08:17:05] <Bender> karma - coffee: 771
[08:17:07] <swiss> coffee--
[08:17:07] <Bender> karma - coffee: 770
[08:17:21] <chromas> needs to hit 777 to win
[08:17:23] <swiss> gotta keep it in check
[08:17:39] <chromas> did you spill three cups? :)
[08:17:52] <swiss> i do not touch the filth
[08:17:58] <swiss> it corrupts the body
[08:18:04] <swiss> and poisons the mind
[08:18:40] <swiss> time for me to sleep. If anyone is going to bsides LA tomorrow, they should PM me
[08:18:46] <swiss> night
[08:22:43] <crutchy> coffee++
[08:22:43] <Bender> karma - coffee: 771
[08:22:44] <crutchy> coffee++
[08:22:44] <Bender> karma - coffee: 772
[08:22:45] <crutchy> coffee++
[08:22:45] <Bender> karma - coffee: 773
[08:22:47] <crutchy> coffee++
[08:22:47] <Bender> karma - coffee: 774
[08:22:47] <crutchy> coffee++
[08:22:47] <Bender> karma - coffee: 775
[08:22:47] <crutchy> coffee++
[08:22:47] <Bender> karma - coffee: 776
[08:22:49] <crutchy> coffee++
[08:22:49] <Bender> karma - coffee: 777
[08:23:30] <JamesNZ> coffee--
[08:23:30] <Bender> karma - coffee: 776
[08:23:31] <JamesNZ> coffee--
[08:23:31] <Bender> karma - coffee: 775
[08:23:31] <JamesNZ> coffee--
[08:23:31] <Bender> karma - coffee: 774
[08:23:32] <JamesNZ> coffee--
[08:23:32] <Bender> karma - coffee: 773
[08:23:33] <JamesNZ> coffee--
[08:23:33] <Bender> karma - coffee: 772
[08:23:34] <JamesNZ> coffee--
[08:23:34] <Bender> karma - coffee: 771
[08:23:35] <JamesNZ> coffee--
[08:23:35] <Bender> karma - coffee: 770
[08:23:49] <crutchy> too late its already won :D
[08:24:03] <JamesNZ> Nuuuu!!!
[08:24:31] * juggs shoves crutchy out the way, grabs the jackpot and runs off to buy tea++ with it :D
[08:24:55] <chromas> botctl start coffeepatrol
[08:25:04] <crutchy> dammit! i didn't know there was a jackpot in coffee. i prolly swallowed it and crapped it out
[08:25:14] <crutchy> now juggs smells like my crap :p
[08:25:35] <juggs> probably an improvement :D
[08:27:20] <JamesNZ> systemctl brew earl-grey
[08:41:17] <crutchy> apple copping a lot of flack for iphone 6 and iwatch. maybe the isheep ran out of moneys?
[08:41:47] <juggs> has anyone actually got their hands on either yet to review them?
[08:42:38] <crutchy> not sure. apparently they're available here in australia next week, which normally means other countries got them months ago
[08:43:11] <juggs> as far as I can tell the iphone 6 is being launched at the same price point the iphone 5 was - so what's the big hoo-hah? Or were people expecting some kind of revolutionary improvement in what now is a fairly amorphous market of smartphones
[08:43:54] <crutchy> not sure when the galaxy s5 comes out. the basic spec comparison seems an easy win to the galaxy, but i guess time will tell
[08:44:36] <crutchy> apple was always gunna struggle to win the war against a hardware megacorp
[08:44:53] <juggs> .~shrug~ still rocking an ancient nokia candy bar here :D Damn thing is immortal I think :D
[08:45:13] -!- JamesNZ has quit [Read error: No route to host]
[08:45:58] <crutchy> lol yeah i don't like touch screens much
[08:47:01] <juggs> I quite like the ~look~ (and price) of the OnePlus One . Still won't be buying one. Besides it's googlified.
[08:48:29] <crutchy> i have a s4 mini. mostly works ok but i don't use it for much. i think i have installed maybe 3 or 4 apps
[08:49:14] <chromas> juggs: http://forum.xda-developers.com
[08:49:15] <monopoly> ^ 03OnePlus One - XDA Forums
[08:50:41] <juggs> I hadn't even heard of it until yesterday. :D But obviously I'm not a phone guy so all I see are the mass marketed things.
[08:51:02] <crutchy> most phones nowadays are way overspecd i reckon
[08:51:41] <crutchy> apparently the galaxy 5 has a 4k video camera and 16mp still camera. wtf is that for?
[08:51:48] <chromas> You can shove a non-Googly-eyed edition of Android on many anyway
[08:52:03] <chromas> crutchy: to see the scratches on the lens
[08:52:06] <crutchy> or ubuntu, if you like fighting agents in the matrix
[08:53:40] * chromas puts aokp back on his pocket box
[08:53:52] <juggs> I'm sure. I still wouldn't use it much though. Maybe that's just because I've spent far too much of my life staring at computer screens and I value my time away from them. Last thing I want to do is stare at another screen in my time off or when travelling etc.
[08:54:51] <chromas> it also gives you pocket porn
[08:57:02] <crutchy> ~time
[08:57:04] <exec> Thursday, 11 September 2014 @ 6:57 pm GMT+10 - Traralgon VIC, Australia
[08:57:27] <crutchy> ~time new york
[08:57:29] <exec> Thursday, 11 September 2014 @ 4:57 am EDT - New York, NY
[09:07:31] <juggs> lol - yeh, I'm sure sitting on the train commuting to work watching porn would go down really well :D Probably get knicked for "causing outrageous offence" or some such thing here. :D
[09:07:32] <ciri> i don't think it's that funny lol
[09:07:51] <chromas> corner++
[09:07:51] <Bender> karma - corner: 1
[09:08:02] <juggs> hehe
[09:09:44] <crutchy> http://mashable.com
[09:09:44] <monopoly> ^ 03Living On The Edge: Australians Design House That Hangs Off Cliff
[09:10:32] <juggs> oh, I saw that on the bbc site. Looks nuts.
[09:15:12] <arti> maybe they like being on edge
[09:15:36] <arti> "errbody jump"
[09:16:30] <juggs> none have been built yet, it's just an architect's wet dream at this point. Would like to see one survive on our atlantic coastline being smashed about by massive waves all winter :D
[09:17:24] <crutchy> http://mashable.com
[09:17:56] <chromas> what're the guys in the reflections looking at?
[09:18:12] <crutchy> damn this site is evil
[09:18:13] <crutchy> http://mashable.com
[09:18:13] <monopoly> ^ 03Facebook Experiments With Disappearing Posts
[09:19:43] <crutchy> http://mashable.com
[09:19:44] <monopoly> ^ 03Ukraine's Battleground as Seen in Satellite Images
[09:19:59] <crutchy> cool. kursk2014 :p
[09:20:17] <crutchy> not cool for the poor bastards living there of course
[09:21:36] -!- JamesNZ [JamesNZ!~james@43-567-441-22.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #Soylent
[09:21:51] <crutchy> hard to know whether they are real or a little propaganda exercise
[09:40:29] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - First 500 GHz Photon Switch Built - http://sylnt.us
[10:06:21] -!- rand [rand!~rand@cea-547.64-463-42.nts-online.net] has joined #Soylent
[10:11:51] <crutchy> i just had a realization...
[10:12:06] <juggs> dun dun duuuuun!
[10:12:31] <crutchy> ...i have the 'cloud to butt' firefox addon installed
[10:13:04] <crutchy> suddenly some of the weirdest sentences i think i've ever read make sense :p
[10:13:49] <chromas> "Partly butty with a 25% chance of rain"
[10:14:08] <juggs> lol, ahh the marketing circle in technology, everything old is new again
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[11:01:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[11:01:44] <Bender> karma - coffee: 771
[11:05:30] <juggs> morning TheMightyBuzzard - are the fooshes in for a hooking today?
[11:05:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, i think the bitcoins are in for a deploy instead
[11:06:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> or at least a git commit
[11:06:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> mind you, they woulda been if i'd been up at 5 like usual, just a bit late today to be starting.
[11:07:09] <juggs> ooh - that was quick, seems you only started on it a few days back. All testing out OK?
[11:07:26] <juggs> meh - a lie in is good sometimes :)
[11:07:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> except for one squirrely thing that doesn't impact anyone losing money which i hope to find today.
[11:09:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> sometimes the button for bitpay just reloads the page you're on. think it's a caching issue.
[11:11:38] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Using Wearable Accelerometers to Track Gunshots - http://sylnt.us - perhaps-the-police-will-wear-them?
[11:16:41] <crutchy> coffee++
[11:16:41] <Bender> karma - coffee: 772
[11:16:48] <crutchy> g'day TheMightyBuzzard
[11:16:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> back atcha, crutchy
[11:18:07] <ar> coffee--
[11:18:07] <Bender> karma - coffee: 771
[11:18:09] * crutchy contemplates how awesome an icypole covered in icecream would be
[11:18:10] <ar> coffee--
[11:18:10] <Bender> karma - coffee: 770
[11:20:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin, ar. how goes the crusade against people enjoying themselves?
[11:25:50] <ar> TheMightyBuzzard: how goes the crusade against free will?
[11:26:03] <ar> coffee deprives you of that
[11:26:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> freedom to make bad choices is integral to free will, yo
[11:27:34] <crutchy> coffee is warm and tastes nice
[11:27:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> "The average man doesn't want to be free, he wants to be safe." -- H.L. Mencken
[11:28:03] <crutchy> i free will myself to have at least one warm tasty beverage in the morning
[11:28:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> not entirely apropos, i just like the quote.
[11:28:52] <crutchy> someone needs to show that quote to some politicians
[11:29:10] <crutchy> not that they would understand or appreciate it anyway
[11:30:30] <crutchy> ...then show them a dictionary open to the page with 'blowback' highlighted
[11:33:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> the politicians already know it. why you think they play up fear every time elections roll around.
[11:34:07] <crutchy> i dont think they know anything
[11:34:20] <crutchy> they play up fear because fear is a form of control
[11:34:35] <crutchy> ...religions have used it for centuries
[11:35:03] <crutchy> i guess they know that :p
[11:35:41] <crutchy> it was a nice quote TheMightyBuzzard
[11:35:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> Mencken has a lot of really good ones
[11:36:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> like "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
[11:36:31] <crutchy> trying to get some motivation to code. but i really just can't be fucked tonight
[11:36:42] <crutchy> lol
[11:36:48] <crutchy> arrrrgh!
[11:37:03] <crutchy> ye call that an anchor!?
[11:37:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> now if i could just find my jolly roger...
[11:37:56] <crutchy> i tow mine behind me in a trolley.. wait, what are we talking about?
[11:38:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> <a href="http://google.com>Google</a> no, I call THAT an anchor.
[11:38:07] <monopoly> ^ 03Google ( https://www.google.com )
[11:39:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> granted, one with a missing "
[11:41:36] <crutchy> i thought <a name="this">was an anchor</a>
[11:43:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> both are
[11:43:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'what the "a" stands for.
[11:43:48] <crutchy> ah
[11:45:20] <crutchy> ~define anchor
[11:45:22] <exec> [urbandictionary] 3Anchor: To wait. Anchoring - waiting.
[11:45:48] <crutchy> pfft. not even any mention of sex
[11:49:06] <crutchy> need a script that detects SN comment threads with depth > $something
[11:49:32] <crutchy> to find the juicy spats :p
[11:50:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> shouldn't be hard
[11:50:44] <crutchy> does subscription come with any statistical perks?
[11:50:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> not that i'm aware of
[11:52:30] <crutchy> hmm i could maybe work it out from the little metadata file that exec is building up. make a tree from the parent cids
[11:53:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> you using btree data structure?
[11:53:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> cause that would NOT be optimal
[11:54:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'actually where a relational db would come in handy. maybe sqlite.
[11:55:10] <crutchy> its just a flat file
[11:55:27] <crutchy> hmm think i may have found a bug
[11:55:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> good a time as any to change that
[11:55:52] <crutchy> nah. if i need a db i'm getting too carried away
[11:56:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> not an sqlite one. only saves to one file
[11:57:13] <crutchy> bugger. no bug
[11:57:21] <crutchy> just my eyeses not working
[11:58:24] <crutchy> maybe its time to develop execdb
[11:59:29] <juggs> the madness has taken hold :D
[11:59:31] <crutchy> though i already kinda got that with buckets
[12:00:16] <crutchy> bucketdb
[12:01:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> you are a wacky monkey, crutchy.
[12:02:42] <crutchy> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[12:02:42] <monopoly> ^ 04Wiki: 03IRC:exec: "exec" is a bot that runs in a CLI that connects to the Soylent IRC server (irc.sylnt.us:6697) and executes other programs and facilitates their interaction with IRC.
[12:05:14] <crutchy> hmm should update that section. bucket functions have been moved to lib_buckets.php
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[12:26:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm, it's not a cache issue... what is it then?
[12:27:07] <juggs> are you just embedding a button they provide?
[12:28:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, had to write my own
[12:28:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> but basically the same thing.
[12:29:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> theirs doesn't give full notifications over IPN
[12:30:37] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Internet Slowdown Day Generated 1,000 Calls per Minute to Congress - http://sylnt.us - y'all-did-just-fine
[12:30:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> has to be a logic issue somewhere
[12:32:00] <juggs> I'm sure you'll figure it out
[12:35:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod. could be a mod_perl thing i'm not seeing. no hill for a stepper though.
[12:47:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> shurg, i can't figure it any better. maybe pj can find it.
[12:51:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> damn, it IS a caching issue. disable cache with web developer n it works fine
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[13:13:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> huh, also appears to work fine after i cleared my cache. i blame canada.
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[13:29:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> is a firefox specific bug too.
[13:29:58] <paulej72> is yoour button code in a form?
[13:30:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep
[13:31:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> sometimes when you first load the page the bp button just sends you right back to the same page
[13:32:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> like it was getting op == confirm rather than op == bitpay
[13:32:14] <paulej72> do you have the page live so I can look at the code?
[13:32:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> sure. tmbvm.ddns.net
[13:34:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> looks for all the world like it should work correctly
[13:36:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> think it'd help if the form's target were a new script like bitpay.pl for instance?
[13:38:15] janrinok is now known as janrinok|lurking
[13:39:19] <paulej72> put the op in the form target?
[13:40:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> tried. same same.
[13:41:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> does NOT happen in chromium though
[13:41:52] <paulej72> then try it with bitpay.pl. what cna it hurt.
[13:42:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> sounds good to me.
[13:42:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> we'll need to add it to robots.txt though
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[13:56:03] <TK> What if HAL had killed Dave in 2001 A Space Oddessey and then continued the mission? Would HAL be the one turned into a star child? He was sentient. Insane, but sentient.
[14:06:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, yep, that cleared it up.
[14:11:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Ask Soylent: KVM Options on Older Hardware - http://sylnt.us - he-asked-you-answer
[14:58:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[14:58:04] <Bender> karma - coffee: 771
[14:58:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> http://arstechnica.com
[15:30:32] blackmoore|afk is now known as Blackmoore
[15:31:22] <Blackmoore> coffee++
[15:31:22] <Bender> karma - coffee: 772
[15:31:26] <Blackmoore> coffee++
[15:31:26] <Bender> karma - coffee: 773
[15:36:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[15:36:37] <Bender> karma - coffee: 774
[15:36:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin, Blackmoore
[15:41:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Prosecutors Drop Charges Against Activists Who Blocked A Coal Freighter - http://sylnt.us - jury-nullification-effort-undercut-by-crafty-politician
[15:50:26] <Blackmoore> mornin TheMightyBuzzard
[15:52:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> anything interesting going on today?
[16:10:42] <Blackmoore> eh I'm still digging through piles of work, but the internet slowdown/ net nutering battle is getting a little more interesting
[16:10:57] <Blackmoore> http://arstechnica.com
[16:11:35] <Blackmoore> http://arstechnica.com
[16:12:09] <Blackmoore> makes me wish I could updaate submissions from yesterday.
[16:15:18] <Blackmoore> what are you up to?
[16:19:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> just finished up bitcoin processing and put in a pull request
[16:20:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> in the immortal words of Willow, bored now.
[16:22:33] <Blackmoore> heh heh heh that could be a very bad thing
[16:24:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, not QUITE as dangerous but any danger is decidedly less fictional.
[16:29:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> normally i'd grab a couple of easy issues on the tracker and start fixing them but i'm feeling a whole lot of "what's the point" today.
[16:32:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> given my coding speed, it's currently impossible to keep up with the issues tracker alone and until pj gets free to code again i'm very much alone on coding.
[16:34:05] <mrcoolbp> so alone
[16:34:49] <juggs> I'm so woneleee... so woneleeeee....
[16:34:58] <TK> You could write a tumbleweed script for irc
[16:36:15] <mrcoolbp> s'amazin' to me that in this community there's literally only 1.5 perl devs avail to help
[16:36:22] <mrcoolbp> = /
[16:37:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> want i should write up a recruitment post?
[16:37:22] <juggs> the rest took one look at the /code and ran for the hills screaming with bleeding eyes
[16:37:47] <Blackmoore> hell i dont know perl and i nearly ran screaming,
[16:38:01] <mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: I've tried that, didn't get much
[16:38:09] <mrcoolbp> maybe you;ll have better luck?
[16:38:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> hope so. might also put a job openings thing in the sidebar with email links to the proper dept head.
[16:40:12] <mrcoolbp> that's a cool idea
[16:40:20] <Blackmoore> and excelent idea
[16:40:42] <mrcoolbp> TMB: please add at least 60% of my jobs
[16:40:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> can't be me what does it though. well technically it could but i'd essentially be hacking to get it done.
[16:41:17] <mrcoolbp> Hack The Planet!!!
[16:42:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> mrcoolbp, ya, it'd be really nice to have some separation in dept heads. you and pj have way too much on your plates to get much done.
[16:43:04] <mrcoolbp> yeah, it's overwhelming sometimes, so s'easier to just procrastinate
[16:44:33] <juggs> I volunteer to be head of the feeding the pigeons in the park whilst mumbling to themselves team
[16:44:52] <mrcoolbp> sometimes I'm working on one thing, get an email that signifies me needing to do something else, then I remember all the other crap I gotta do
[16:44:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> i don't so much procrastinate as admit defeat and give up on a temporary basis.
[16:45:05] <mrcoolbp> yeah that
[16:45:11] <mrcoolbp> tomato tomahto
[16:45:42] * mrcoolbp appoints juggs to head of whatever that team is
[16:46:17] <juggs> well there's only me in it and we ain't recruiting
[16:46:44] <mrcoolbp> good, I got enough teams already
[16:46:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> should have at least one minion so you can blow off the responsibilities and go fishing once in a while.
[16:46:58] <mrcoolbp> ^
[16:51:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Prosecutors Drop Charges against Activists who Blocked a Coal Freighter - http://sylnt.us - jury-nullification-effort-undercut-by-crafty-politician
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[17:58:29] <SirFinkus> legal_weed++
[17:58:29] <Bender> karma - legal_weed: 1
[18:10:32] <Blackmoore> legal_corporate_canabilism++
[18:10:32] <Bender> karma - legal_corporate_canabilism: 1
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[18:27:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> laws--
[18:27:42] <Bender> karma - laws: -1
[18:31:08] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - British Winter Weather to Become More Unsettled - http://sylnt.us - A-Winter's-Fail
[18:32:35] <Blackmoore> A mid-winters Nightmare?
[18:33:18] <Blackmoore> (i guess i just re-title King Lear)
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[19:52:09] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The State of Security in a Post-Secrecy World - http://sylnt.us
[19:54:55] -!- Rolled [Rolled!~Roll___@80.149.ir.hr] has parted #Soylent
[20:24:26] * juggs catches a passing tumbleweed
[20:27:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, pretty quiet for a weekday
[20:28:19] <mechanicjay> Been busy
[20:29:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> ditto. got bitpay/bitcoin out to a pull request and a couple things for mrcoolbp
[20:30:04] <mechanicjay> Trying to wrap up stuff at work, got a new gig :)
[20:30:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> job gig or band gig?
[20:31:14] <mechanicjay> Job -- I am unfortunately not a talented enough musician to play in a band.
[20:31:39] <crutchy> coffee++
[20:31:39] <Bender> karma - coffee: 775
[20:32:06] <mechanicjay> moving cross country in T-4 Weeks. :)
[20:33:12] <Blackmoore> O.o
[20:33:23] <Blackmoore> is everyone moving but me?
[20:33:43] <juggs> not me. As far as I know at least
[20:34:00] <mechanicjay> Anyone want to buy a nice place in NJ?
[20:35:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[20:35:06] <Bender> karma - coffee: 776
[20:35:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> morning crutchy
[20:35:29] <crutchy> ~gday TheMightyBuzzard
[20:35:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> Blackmoore, apparently. I'm staying put until around christmas most likely though.
[20:35:30] <exec> * crutchy surreptitiously throws a wad of Soylent Green at TheMightyBuzzard
[20:42:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> wait, there are nice places in NJ?
[20:43:02] <crutchy> my brain had a bsod when i read that
[20:43:34] <mechanicjay> Yes, there are a lot of very nice places in NJ.
[20:43:48] <mechanicjay> It's not all smelly shitholes and ghettos.
[20:43:59] <mechanicjay> ...Though we certainly have those as well
[20:44:21] <crutchy> i guess further you move away from nyc?
[20:44:51] <crutchy> into the bushy hinterland
[20:44:54] <crutchy> lol
[20:44:56] <ciri> hahaha
[20:45:07] <crutchy> bushy_hinterland++
[20:45:08] <Bender> karma - bushy_hinterland: 1
[20:45:19] * crutchy should grow up
[20:45:26] <mechanicjay> exactly. I'm about 50 miles west of the city, pretty nice. Some really nice areas in South Jersey and along the border w/ PA.
[20:46:30] <mechanicjay> Regardless, we're Seattle bound in a few weeks.
[20:46:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> Oh, right, forgot you had anything there except NYC's smelly feet.
[20:47:07] <mechanicjay> FWIW, I hate NYC.
[20:47:55] <chromas> Who doesn't
[20:48:11] <crutchy> gojirra?
[20:48:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> i don't really care about nyc. it can do its thing and i'll do mine waaaay off over here.
[20:49:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'true. he hates Tokyo
[20:49:58] <crutchy> n i'll do my thang waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over here :)
[20:50:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> man, you'd hafta be on another planet to get any farther, crutchy
[20:51:12] <crutchy> thankfully our government hasn't wasted a fuckload of money on a space program, else i might be
[20:52:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> you lot don't need a space program. your back yards are about as hospitable as the surface of the moon.
[20:53:22] <juggs> there's far less downright evil wildlife on the moon too :D
[20:53:31] * crutchy really needs to mow his back lawn
[20:54:10] <crutchy> takes a couple of hours though :(
[20:54:27] <crutchy> front lawn is much smaller
[20:54:50] <juggs> napalm - probably quicker than a mower
[20:54:58] <crutchy> lol
[20:55:00] <ciri> HEHEHEHE
[20:55:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> takes me about two hours to mow and another to run the weed-eater around everything that sat still while i did.
[20:56:11] <juggs> with the benefit of roasting the evil critters lurking in the undergrowth. Nothing worse than exploring the undergrowth and finding critters scuttling around waiting to bite you.
[20:56:12] <crutchy> takes me about 2 hours to start my whipper snipper
[20:57:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> juggs, in OZ that's basically everything.
[20:58:05] <crutchy> aww we don't bite too hard :p
[20:58:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> cept he'd have to flame the trees too for all the nasties up in them.
[20:58:46] <juggs> Yeh - I think all this fire setting might draw some attention
[20:58:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> and everything cept the drop bears n roos are poisonous.
[21:00:52] <juggs> the roos just suffocate you in their pouch or punch your head off - I read that somewhere so it must be true.
[21:01:20] <crutchy> the internetz is soo smrt
[21:01:37] <crutchy> internetz++
[21:01:37] <Bender> karma - internetz: 1
[21:02:30] <crutchy> damn clock. gotta go wash the poisonous squirrels off before workipoos :p
[21:03:04] <juggs> :D
[21:03:37] <juggs> I heard about the too - they have stinging tails like scorpions and 12 legs.
[21:03:47] <juggs> them*
[21:04:43] <juggs> Ohh - and that monty python thing about the killer rabbits - that was filmed live in Oz!
[21:05:03] <juggs> This is all true, I read it somewhere... possibly as I just wrote it...
[21:05:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> must be true if it's on the internet
[21:05:27] <mythterj> Sees crutchy must have a son. Takes two hours to start most of those.
[21:06:32] <juggs> or bribery
[21:07:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... i should get my nephews over next mowing day.
[21:08:04] <juggs> they'll only be interested if you have a ride on mower or are offering bribes no doubt :D
[21:08:27] <mythterj> Was out shoveling snow one day, lady drives by, stops, rolls down window and says "I see you have a son too!"
[21:09:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> har!
[21:11:08] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - MS Pays NFL $400M To Use Surface, Announcers Call Them iPads - http://sylnt.us - value-added-economics
[21:11:29] <juggs> were we any different at that kind of age? I certainly don't remember running all over the place volunteering to do stuff. Although I was certainly assigned stuff to do about the place and sanctions were enforced if they didn't get done lol
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[21:14:50] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v LaminatorX] by juggler
[21:15:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> i rarely volunteered but generally did what i was supposed to, chore-wise. not without copious bitching, mind you.
[21:19:06] <juggs> I used to actually enjoy doing all the mowing and stuff ~once~ I got past that teenage lethargy "can't be arsed" block and got moving. Strange time of life really.
[21:19:15] -!- mechanicjay has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[21:20:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> LaminatorX, you n your crew are really getting your balls busted over https://soylentnews.org in comments.
[21:20:15] <monopoly> ^ 04SN article 03 The State of Security in a Post-Secrecy World 04(17 comments):
[21:24:21] <LaminatorX> So it would seem.
[21:25:53] <LaminatorX> I thought it worthwhile to run something a bit different. The reaction seems overwhealmingly negative though.
[21:26:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'okay man, i still love yall. anyone that keeps the stuff what isn't dev away from me is okay in my book.
[21:29:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> aight, this having hair nonsense has gotta go. it gets any longer and i'll have to comb it.
[21:29:13] * TheMightyBuzzard breaks out the clippers
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[21:38:55] <mechanicjay> My computers -- it break. :(
[21:39:35] <mechanicjay> I think I have a flaky video card or driver. Every couple weeks X will just eat it self alive and lock up the machine. I need to reboot to bring it back.
[21:40:05] <mechanicjay> I used to get 3+ months of uptime at a clip on this box
[21:43:31] <juggs> that's ugly. Does it hard lock or can you REISUB ?
[21:44:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> who remembers REISUB when the reset switch is nearby though?
[21:47:40] <mechanicjay> it usually locks all inputs, so no keyboard control or anything. I'll either just hit the kill switch, or ssh from my laptop and issue a reboot command.
[21:48:04] <juggs> TheMightyBuzzard, me! 1. can I get another tty to login on to see wtf just happened 2. REISUB? 3. Hit the power and hope it survives
[21:49:36] <juggs> ahh - so it's not a hard lock then as you can ssh to it. Good luck diagnosing it though.
[21:49:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> well if you can ssh in you can at least look at dmesg and syslog
[21:50:49] <mechanicjay> Yeah - at this point, this box is mine for another 8 business days...
[21:51:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> work box?
[21:51:27] <mechanicjay> wait, its EOD thurs....6! 6 business days.
[21:51:28] <mechanicjay> yep
[21:51:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> score
[21:51:40] <juggs> pfft - feck it!
[21:52:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> home box i'd say replace the vid card or make it into a headless server. work box, fuck it.
[21:53:31] <juggs> I might as a favour to my incoming replacement attach a post-it note to the box with a scrawled "this box is a bit flakey" - but attempt to fix - nah.
[21:54:18] <crutchy> you can always make it more flakey, as a welcoming gift of course
[21:55:15] <mechanicjay> my sentiments exactly. HA! It's getting close to it's 3 yr replacement cycle -- they may just get a new box for New Guy. My Director says the Vid card in his is flaky too. Same hardware, different OS, which is interesting.
[21:55:53] <crutchy> wtf is with people bitching about SN in comments?
[21:56:09] <crutchy> "I for one will not be visiting the site again if this keeps up."
[21:56:32] <crutchy> felt like replying "good. gtfo asshole"
[21:56:46] <mechanicjay> yeah, it's a distubing trend lately.
[21:57:02] <mechanicjay> s/tub/turb/
[21:57:02] <SedBot9001> <mechanicjay> yeah, it's a disturbing trend lately.
[21:57:08] <crutchy> and its modded +3 insightful?
[21:58:33] <crutchy> maybe we need a clause where new users have to check a box to confirm that they aren't another douchebag from /.
[21:58:35] <mechanicjay> alright, now that's I've spend the last 15 min of my workday bitching about my hardware, it's time go. I'll catch you guy later.
[21:58:47] <mechanicjay> crutchy: lol, nice.
[21:58:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> adios
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[21:59:05] <crutchy> bitching about hardware is good
[21:59:06] -!- Woods has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[21:59:19] <crutchy> need more of that in SN comments
[22:01:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> shurg, gives em something to do on a slow news day
[22:04:42] <crutchy> maybe it should be modded +5 funny, cos everyone (i hope the editors) know that the guy won't leave, but will continue to post comments like that till he shrivels up and dies :p
[22:06:55] * crutchy is surprised he hasn't seen much about flight 93 in the news for the past few years... seems odd considering the passengers might have stopped the plane from flying into the whitehouse
[22:07:07] <crutchy> ahh now i realize why
[22:07:10] <juggs> So many detractors, so few volunteers. Such is the way with these things, I fear.
[22:07:45] <crutchy> i like volunteering, just not willing to commit
[22:08:11] <crutchy> i'm afraid if another shiny pony comes galloping by you may not see me as often
[22:08:55] <crutchy> i do like bot programmering though
[22:09:36] * crutchy wonders how he didn't come across irc bots before sn
[22:11:37] <juggs> well you saw what volunteering did to Subsentient. One must bear a mirrored shield to dare volunteer - especially for editorial - one typo slips through and the commentariat at going for the jugular.
[22:12:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> helps to be on drugs too
[22:13:08] <crutchy> yeah i was a bit surprised that subsentient volunteered for *that* position. it really does seem like 'operation get behind the darkies'
[22:13:43] <crutchy> at least dev guys get to hide behind a curtain of impervious perl jibberish :p
[22:14:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> truth. we still get plenty of bitching though.
[22:14:28] <crutchy> and if something goes horribly wrong... you always got slash, gluster, etc to blame :p
[22:14:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> and pj
[22:14:54] <crutchy> even the name 'slash' is enough to frighten most trolls i would guess :D
[22:15:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> hell, we don't need trolls. we have enough that's legitimately worth bitching about going on.
[22:15:29] <juggs> no - just gluster... ohh and kerberos. Let's not forget that cantankerous puppy.
[22:15:46] <crutchy> cantankerous++ lol word of the day man
[22:15:46] <Bender> karma - cantankerous: 1
[22:16:00] <juggs> I'm not sure I spelt it right
[22:16:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> good ole kerb. always going down when everything else seems to be doing fine.
[22:16:09] <crutchy> meh. sounds awesome anyway :)
[22:16:26] <crutchy> someone has to lead the charge
[22:16:49] * crutchy is reminded of the suicide scene at the end of 'the life of brian'
[22:17:23] <crutchy> lol 'suicide squad'
[22:17:24] <ciri> it's not that funny :)
[22:17:31] <juggs> eff me - I always question my spelling when I spelt something right lol ~~ and miss the bleeding obvious spllfups!!
[22:17:45] <crutchy> spllfups++
[22:17:45] <Bender> karma - spllfups: 1
[22:18:06] <crutchy> ciri needs more monty python input
[22:18:58] <arti> the ministry of spllfups?
[22:19:15] <crutchy> arti s/ministry/department/
[22:19:20] <crutchy> g'day arti
[22:19:21] <ciri> yeah, yeah hi HI crutchy
[22:19:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> dunno wtf keeps changing my spellcheck dictionary to en_CA but it can eat a dick
[22:19:27] <crutchy> err... no sedbot?
[22:19:38] <arti> surprised there aren't additional vowels
[22:19:46] <crutchy> cos california has its own version of english?
[22:19:51] <arti> valspeak
[22:19:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> canadia
[22:20:01] <crutchy> ah
[22:20:15] <crutchy> canadia++
[22:20:15] <Bender> karma - canadia: 1
[22:20:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> woah, i actually CAN blame canada for that one
[22:20:49] <crutchy> canada is the reason why the space shuttle needed a Chief Masturbation Officer
[22:20:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://www.youtube.com
[22:21:00] <monopoly> ^ 03Blame Canada - South Park: Bigger Longer & Uncut (3/9) Movie CLIP (1999) HD - YouTube
[22:30:48] <crutchy> one more day of workipoos till weekend
[22:30:51] <crutchy> weekend++
[22:30:52] <Bender> karma - weekend: 4
[22:31:01] <crutchy> catch yas later
[22:31:15] <juggs> have a good one
[22:32:09] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - 3-D Printer Could Revolutionize the Final Frontier - http://sylnt.us - made-in-space
[22:36:57] -!- Dopefish [Dopefish!~Dopefish@Soylent/Staff/Editor/Dopefish] has joined #Soylent
[22:36:57] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Dopefish] by juggler
[23:07:00] <_NSAKEY> TheMightyBuzzard: At least it's not being changed to Chinese.
[23:07:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> true. japanese i could deal with a little but chinese i can't do much more than recognize.
[23:43:02] -!- SpallsHurgenson [SpallsHurgenson!~SpallsHur@fbvl-09-465-913-10.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #Soylent
[23:50:40] * SpallsHurgenson realizes he prefers watching movies with subtitles on
[23:56:17] Blackmoore is now known as blcakmoore|afk
[23:56:23] <blcakmoore|afk> night!
[23:57:41] <SpallsHurgenson> mid-afternoon in winter!