#Soylent | Logs for 2014-08-14

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[00:14:15] <mrcoolbp> Blackmoore: just got back if you need anything
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[00:41:08] * SpallsHurgenson declares that tomorrow is Beach Day... everybody go to the beach tomorrow!
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[01:55:54] <Blackmoore_> coffee++
[01:55:54] <Bender> karma - coffee: 570
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[02:06:36] <Blackmoore_> sup?
[02:08:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[02:08:47] <Bender> karma - coffee: 571
[02:09:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> beats me. was a meeting earlier i missed on account of it being a week early but other'n that no clue
[02:09:59] <mrcoolbp> it's a small one-item meeting
[02:10:02] <Blackmoore_> oh there's a meeting of sorts in staff, i'm trying to keep my snark down
[02:11:29] <mrcoolbp> snark all you like in here = )
[02:11:38] <Blackmoore_> since it really is important we get that right.
[02:11:54] <Blackmoore_> damn straight. here i can snark
[02:11:55] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - John Romero Making a New Shooter - http://sylnt.us - not-the-living-dead-Romero
[02:13:03] <Blackmoore_> send laywers guns and money..
[02:14:04] <mrcoolbp> lol
[02:14:57] * SpallsHurgenson anticipates shooting more robot frogs
[02:17:43] <Konomi> https://www.youtube.com
[02:17:44] <monopoly> ^ 03Cat Mosh Pit - YouTube
[02:18:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> ha!
[02:18:40] <SpallsHurgenson> argh, the giant pixels!
[02:19:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> colored blocks of love
[02:19:51] <SpallsHurgenson> love doesn't usually make my eyes bleed
[02:20:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're too young then. real pixels are as big as my hand.
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[02:23:35] * SpallsHurgenson likes being called too young :)
[02:25:20] <Blackmoore_> too young?
[02:25:48] <SpallsHurgenson> that's me! somebody on IRC said it, so it must be true!
[02:26:22] <Blackmoore_> ah. and it looks like we are setting up soylent muffins now.
[02:26:40] <JamesNZ> Hmm, I can't tell if it's hailing or snowing. Ground's white anyway :D
[02:27:01] <Blackmoore_> cripes. where are you?
[02:27:33] <SpallsHurgenson> Florida. A cocaine boat exploded
[02:28:00] <JamesNZ> Heh, Wellington.
[02:28:59] <Blackmoore_> spalls - these things just happen.
[02:29:15] <Blackmoore_> i'm already seeing signs of fall here
[02:29:20] <Blackmoore_> http://particle-clicker.web.cern.ch
[02:29:22] <monopoly> ^ 03Particle Clicker
[02:30:10] <SpallsHurgenson> I often confuse Wellington for Florida; they are very similar
[02:30:11] <Konomi> http://boingboing.net
[02:31:21] <JamesNZ> Awww, it's turned into rain.
[02:33:05] <Blackmoore_> i think Florida has the koala issues in check.
[02:33:24] <JamesNZ> Hehe.
[02:33:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> i suggest a three way cage match between the board to decide the settling of debt issue.
[02:34:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> i suggest it out here though because it's quite silly.
[02:34:19] <mrcoolbp> ooh, fun
[02:34:46] <Blackmoore_> i like it. I'll be over here with the metal folding chairs
[02:35:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> handing out or sitting on?
[02:35:19] <Blackmoore_> handing out of course
[02:35:33] * mrcoolbp grabs one
[02:37:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> i got $5 on rowdy matt_ piper
[02:37:21] <mrcoolbp> hey!
[02:37:29] * mrcoolbp whacks TMB with metal chair
[02:37:51] <Blackmoore_> Spalls, you want MC this?
[02:38:02] * TheMightyBuzzard bleeds on things
[02:38:43] <Blackmoore_> "Well you know mean gene..''
[02:38:57] * mrcoolbp hands TheMightyBuzzard a bandaid
[02:39:06] <mrcoolbp> Okay, I gotta take off to work on more work
[02:39:09] <mrcoolbp> work work work
[02:39:10] <mrcoolbp> = )
[02:39:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> enjoy
[02:39:37] * mrcoolbp considers whacking TMB again, instead waves on his way out
[02:42:23] <Blackmoore_> and I'm off to bed. night
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[03:12:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> sleep now. see you lot for a little while in the am.
[03:13:53] <mrcoolbp> g'night
[03:23:03] <SpallsHurgenson> I don't think this sleep thing really works
[03:47:05] <xunie-laptop> I've never encountered 'sleep'.
[03:47:25] <xunie-laptop> I'm starting to think it's imaginary, fictional or propaganda of some sort.
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[04:11:25] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Swedish Dad Takes Gamer Kids to War Zone - http://sylnt.us - tough-love
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[04:21:43] <meisterister> Hello!
[04:22:45] <mrcoolbp> hello there
[04:23:06] <meisterister> Command line irc is certainly fun to set up.
[04:23:42] <mrcoolbp> = (
[04:23:56] <meisterister> But it runs on just about anything.
[04:27:14] <meisterister> Anyway, how often or not is the IRC channel busy? I was mostly just seeing if it would work.
[04:31:12] <mrcoolbp> depends on the time of day
[04:31:35] <mrcoolbp> also, on how much fishing or coding needs to happen = )
[04:32:11] <mrcoolbp> I'm working on my "real job" right now for example
[04:32:38] <meisterister> Oh, nice. Timezones are fun, aren't they?
[04:33:03] <meisterister> Given that times on soylent tend to be given on the eastern timezone...
[04:34:45] <mrcoolbp> a few of us are in EST
[04:34:56] <mrcoolbp> but I'm in Pacific on business
[04:35:04] <mrcoolbp> and we are spread across the globe really
[04:35:20] <meisterister> Ah. Mountain time here.
[04:35:36] <meisterister> It's cool that there is a spread there.
[04:35:51] <meisterister> (By which I mean across the globe)
[04:35:58] <mrcoolbp> yeah, that's just staff
[04:36:16] <mrcoolbp> the site-hits metrics are pretty cool, quite a reach
[04:37:11] <meisterister> Forgot about that. I should probably dig that up.
[04:38:30] <meisterister> Curse you Adobe, with your precious document format!
[04:39:50] <meisterister> Anyway, this computer's CPU fan is rubber-banded in and I'm not quite sure if I smell burning rubber (I'm being completely serious. Those Pentium III heatsink fans are hard to replace)
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[04:50:16] <mrcoolbp> that's not a good sign ^^
[05:10:17] <NCommander> Nope
[05:11:06] <mrcoolbp> = )
[05:11:20] * mrcoolbp reads email
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[05:13:23] <mrcoolbp> arti
[05:13:28] <mrcoolbp> aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrtiiiiiiiii
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[06:10:56] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Salmon Cannon Launches Fish over Dams - http://sylnt.us - better-mousetrap
[06:14:02] <mrcoolbp> "Whooooosh" innovations
[06:25:59] <chromas> Beef_ribs--
[06:25:59] <Bender> karma - beef_ribs: -1
[06:26:51] <chromas> Cheese++
[06:26:51] <Bender> karma - cheese: 2
[06:31:04] <arti> :D
[06:45:50] <Popeidol> how the hell is cheese rated so lowly
[06:45:50] <ciri> don't ask me!
[06:46:04] <Popeidol> cheese++
[06:46:04] <Bender> karma - cheese: 3
[06:46:07] <Popeidol> cheese++
[06:46:07] <Bender> karma - cheese: 4
[06:46:29] <chromas> dunno
[06:46:32] <chromas> cheese++
[06:46:32] <Bender> karma - cheese: 5
[06:46:48] <chromas> cheese++ for an even value
[06:46:48] <Bender> karma - cheese: 6
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[08:20:35] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Open letter to the Linux World (or the on going initd and systemd debate) - http://sylnt.us
[08:23:26] <chromas> "I just dist-upgraded to Jessie, and voila - PID 1 was suddenly systemd. What a clusterfuck."
[08:23:40] <chromas> No, anything but that!
[08:33:28] <chromas> (from the zzzz-zzz-zzzz dept)
[08:42:08] <JamesNZ> This guy is overreacting.
[08:46:27] <Subsentient> I used that story as an Epoch Init System advertisement.
[08:46:30] <Subsentient> Now, I am off!
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[08:50:01] <chromas> He respects Debian for all of its decisions except that one, which will burn Linux to the ground.
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[09:47:34] <chromas> messages.pl++
[09:47:42] <chromas> [messages.pl]++
[09:47:42] <Bender> karma - [messages.pl]: 1
[09:48:52] <chromas> rofl; just heard a don't drink'n'drive style radio ad for pot. "If you're going to get high, get a designated driver"
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[10:22:06] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - BuzzFeed Raises $50M to Become a "Preeminent Media Company" - http://sylnt.us - number-four-will-shock-you
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[11:32:10] <crutchy> coffee++
[11:32:10] <Bender> karma - coffee: 572
[11:51:13] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Law Students Fend Off a Patent Troll. - http://sylnt.us - one-for-the-little-guy
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[12:16:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[12:16:58] <Bender> karma - coffee: 573
[12:21:35] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Open Letter to the Linux World (or the Ongoing initd and systemd Debate) - http://sylnt.us
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[13:13:45] <Blackmoore> coffee++
[13:13:45] <Bender> karma - coffee: 574
[13:13:51] <Blackmoore> mornin
[13:16:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin
[13:19:40] <SoyCow7650> coffee++
[13:19:40] <Bender> karma - coffee: 575
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[13:20:03] <TK> coffee++
[13:20:03] <Bender> karma - coffee: 576
[13:20:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Anonymous' "Operation Ferguson" Says it Will ID the Cop Who Killed Michael Brown - http://sylnt.us - crowd-sourcing-a-search-for-information
[13:41:20] <Blackmoore> http://www.mcall.com
[13:41:47] <Blackmoore> best line is the judge who tells the police chief to "suck it up cupcake"
[13:42:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> har!
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[14:20:38] <stdhell> If you want to see something "funny"/scary, check https://twitter.com from 8 to 20 hours ago. VNC-servers on public IP-addresses without any passwords...
[14:20:39] <monopoly> ^ 03Dan Tentler (Viss) on Twitter
[14:21:27] <mechanicjay> Oh Jesus -- we're having this stupid safety drill at work today.
[14:27:34] <Kaganar> Exercise, time to mingle with your coworkers, and fresh air!
[14:28:33] <Kaganar> ... of course, depending on where you are... 20 flights of stairs, snarky people, and rain.
[14:28:46] <mechanicjay> It's an Active Shooter Drill, so meh
[14:33:46] <mechanicjay> This is what we were told to watch ahead of time: https://www.youtube.com
[14:33:47] <monopoly> ^ 03RUN. HIDE. FIGHT.® Surviving an Active Shooter Event - English - YouTube
[14:34:44] <Kaganar> Good stuff, my company teaches "RUN, STAY IN VISIBLE PLACE."
[14:37:18] <Blackmoore> cripes. if i ever worked in another call center I'm likely to get a carry permit.
[14:37:58] <mechanicjay> Blackmoore: depending on where you live, good luck with that.
[14:38:19] <Blackmoore> i remeber one where the customer found the location; drove the car INTO the building entrence and then it got worse.
[14:38:28] <mechanicjay> WOW!
[14:38:51] <Blackmoore> it's a wonder that hasnt happend to comcast.
[14:43:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's a wonder all cable/telco offices haven't been blown the fuck up, frankly.
[14:50:55] <mechanicjay> Sometimes the complacency of the General Public perplexes me.
[14:51:29] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Reversible USB Type-C Connector Ready for Production - http://sylnt.us - perhaps-too-late
[14:51:35] <Blackmoore> i agree with mechanicjay I really do not understand the complacency.
[14:51:45] <TK> That was included in my OSHA training a couple of months ago
[14:52:02] <mechanicjay> I've been doing some reading and a lot of thinking about this lately, even taking into account some conspiracy theories about Fluoridated water, etc and I think I hit upon the crux of it.
[14:52:04] <TK> run, hide, fight, in that order
[14:52:06] <mechanicjay> Hunger.
[14:52:13] <Blackmoore> of course I was also expecting employees working in those condidions to go postal too
[14:52:51] <TK> TheMightyBuzzard, one benefit of off-shoring your call center
[14:53:03] <Blackmoore> there is only so long that you can accept being yelled at by both the customers and the boss.
[14:53:14] <mechanicjay> Sure there are hungry people in the US, but I think a vast majority of Americans aren't at the end of their rope, wondering where the next meal is coming from.
[14:53:51] <Blackmoore> yeah an whole lot of bread and circuses to go around
[14:53:52] <mechanicjay> A lot of this is helped by social programs, but still. When people get hungry, they loose reason and more primal motivators take over.
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[14:55:08] <TK> Blackmoore: If you can't get a carry permit (or carry in your office building), make a rat tail out of a power cord. Good for practical jokes, too
[14:56:15] <mechanicjay> TK++
[14:56:15] <Bender> karma - tk: 4
[14:56:45] <mechanicjay> I should figure out how to electrify my door.
[15:00:13] <mechanicjay> hunger, of course, is one component of feeling secure. So, let me expand my hypothesis to say that when people stop feeling secure, shit will hit the fan.
[15:00:28] <Blackmoore> TK++
[15:00:28] <Bender> karma - tk: 5
[15:01:02] <Blackmoore> I was raised on A-team and McGyver.. I'll be ok
[15:01:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> mechanicjay, therein lies the problem. people will trade liberty for even false security 99% of the time.
[15:01:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> most people, simply put, are cowards.
[15:01:55] <Blackmoore> even if the food is mostly sawdust -with flavoring.
[15:02:05] <mechanicjay> TheMightyBuzzard: I agree -- maybe that's the part that confuses me. I don't know if people are good at deluding themselves, or if they actually believe the BS that's fed to them.
[15:02:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> bit of both i expect
[15:02:57] <Blackmoore> I'll agree with the coward bit too. even the police in the Ferguson case acted out of fear - not any rational sense
[15:03:01] <mechanicjay> I suppose rationalization is a complex process that we don't fully understand.
[15:03:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, it's easy to understand. you take and figure out a way to view things that gives you what you want most without upsetting your sensibilities.
[15:04:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> doesn't matter if it's logical. just that it can pass for logic if you don't look too close.
[15:05:07] <mechanicjay> quick poll, who thinks the shit will hit the fan in the US in the next 20 years? Or will we persist and morph into something unrecognizable?
[15:05:26] <mechanicjay> I personally go back and forth on that one all the time.
[15:05:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'd say 20-50 before revolution either political or bloody.
[15:07:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> we don't currently have a generation ready to say enough of this bullshit. have to wait for one to come along.
[15:07:18] <mechanicjay> I'd say the way to stop it is to fix income distribution, stop making 90% fight over the 5% of weath that exists when the top is done. I think that would go a long way. There's no will to fix that thought.
[15:07:43] <mechanicjay> We have completely fallen victim to the Golden Rule here: Who ever has the gold, makes the rules.
[15:07:56] <Blackmoore> i was convinced that we would have been there by now. - but the more i look at it, the more i push back the time line. it really does come down to food.
[15:08:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, you redistribute income you might as well just throw the idea of freedom right out
[15:08:43] <Blackmoore> TheMightyBuzzard: FDR administration did just that with taxes.
[15:08:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> Blackmoore, and look where it has us.
[15:09:08] <Blackmoore> call it whatever you want - it is redistribution
[15:09:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> a growing population of non-taxpayers.
[15:09:13] <mechanicjay> I'm not talking about income redistribution necessarily, I'm talking about finding a way to close the income gap -- or at least slow down the spreading of it
[15:09:39] <Blackmoore> everything the FDR did has completely been undone
[15:09:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> income gap is nothing but jealousy. your income relative to someone else's is immaterial
[15:10:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> your income relative to a comfortable life is all that matters.
[15:10:14] <mechanicjay> Your income relative to the cost of living is what's important
[15:10:32] <Blackmoore> and that's true; but the 1% who keep trying to collect more wealth> thats obsesive behavior
[15:10:34] <mechanicjay> As COL goes up and wages remain stagnant or even fall....
[15:10:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> Blackmoore, so what? wealth isn't zero sum. all work creates more wealth.
[15:11:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> right. i've no issue with a sane minimum wage but it needs to allow for unskilled work to be paid as such.
[15:11:19] <Blackmoore> mm.. not to the obsessive. to them it IS zero sum.
[15:11:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> Blackmoore, that's their problem, not ours.
[15:11:41] <Blackmoore> and they want it all. now that is not all of the 1% either
[15:11:55] <mechanicjay> It is out problem as those are the people writing policy and laws.
[15:11:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> it doesn't harm me if gates wants to have a gazillion dollars, as long as i can afford scotch.
[15:12:21] <Blackmoore> and that becomes our problem when they try to take property through the state; or get the population to fund a stadium,
[15:12:29] <mechanicjay> policy and laws which make it easier for them to get richer and game the system, excluding the rest of us.
[15:12:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod, corruption can gtfo but honest making of capital does not need to be infringed upon.
[15:13:01] <Blackmoore> I dont have a hated for the rich. i just want the law equally enforced.
[15:13:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> roger
[15:13:33] <mechanicjay> Agreed on both counts
[15:13:33] <Blackmoore> why can't I forclose on a house that I dont own? the bank just did it
[15:13:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, odd idea here i heard somewhere. reparations.
[15:14:12] <mechanicjay> Why can the bank charge my mom fees equal to the loan itself when she stops being able to pay?
[15:14:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> not because it's owed to anyone but to get everyone to stfu about inequality for good.
[15:14:22] <mechanicjay> (yes it happened)
[15:14:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> mechanicjay, mostly because that's what she agreed to.
[15:15:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> people have gotten too used to buying on credit. that is an insanely bad idea.
[15:15:41] <mechanicjay> TheMightyBuzzard: unfortunately I don't know what she agreed to, but it definitely seems predatory and unsavory. Especially when they're not really interested in taking the property, just extracting the $$$$.
[15:15:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> i pay cash, folding, dollars for everything i buy. my only debts are my utilities.
[15:15:53] <Blackmoore> and insanely bad lending policies. the damn fees are criminal.
[15:15:57] <mechanicjay> TheMightyBuzzard: I'm hoping to get there myself someday.
[15:16:16] <LaminatorX> Oh man, those stadium deals hack me off. Old Busch Stadium needed work, but the impetus for replacing it was to have more luxury boxes, which also means fewer cheap seats. Thus the plebeans were being asked to fund a stadium that would have fewer seats for them so that patricians could make more money selling boxes to other patricians.
[15:16:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> mechanicjay, isn't hard. just one rule: if you can't afford it, don't buy it.
[15:17:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> cars can be a sticky point there as you have to have transportation in most places but otherwise it's not at all difficult.
[15:17:12] <Blackmoore> see - that argumen breaks down when the goverment buys something (like a stadium) and then you get forced to pay for it
[15:17:19] <mechanicjay> And when your Salary can barely support your family and you're running a deficit every month? You've cut back as far as you can, no frivilous purchases?
[15:17:42] <mechanicjay> Now, I'm working on fixing that with a new job, but it's insanely stressful.
[15:17:57] <LaminatorX> I'm in the same place, MechanicJay.
[15:18:16] <Blackmoore> at least the economy is getting better; more jobs now than the last couple of years
[15:18:31] <mechanicjay> barely being able to provide the necessities is heart breaking.
[15:18:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> can be, yeah. you're likely not as poor as you think though. i've been proper poor and it's nothing like what our supposed poverty line is.
[15:18:36] <Blackmoore> i wish that income would rebound.
[15:19:00] <mechanicjay> TheMightyBuzzard: I'm not saying I'm poor, I'm saying that for my particular socio-economic bracket, I'm struggling.
[15:19:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> Blackmoore, not going to happen while we have >10% unemployment.
[15:19:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> mechanicjay, ya. you probably don't want to consider dropping down one though.
[15:19:45] <mechanicjay> mechanicjay: which is why in addition to the new job, I'm trying to relocate to a less expensive place to live, really change the equation up in my factor.
[15:19:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> yar, tis just math.
[15:20:25] <mechanicjay> TheMightyBuzzard: Correct, which is why I'm channging the major inputs I have control of, $$ in and Housing costs out.
[15:21:20] <LaminatorX> If STL weren't so inexpensive, we wouldn't be able to afford to own a house. It's a challenge, as my current job pays 20%less than my previous one, but we've managed to stay afloat, if barely.
[15:21:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> housing can be a tough one depending. moving away from high rent areas and driving a bit more is one way to help with that.
[15:22:28] <LaminatorX> I really need to up my income as well though, we con't go on like this forever.
[15:23:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> anyway, i better get over there and mow my dad's yard before he tries it a day after having a minor stroke. you lot have fun.
[15:23:33] <Blackmoore> I'm gonna start growing herbs and vegs. not much more i can cut. at least most of my kids are college age and i dont have to feed them
[15:24:45] <Blackmoore> I'm hoping to up my income by writing some games for android.
[15:25:15] <mechanicjay> Housing is a really tough one, stuff in the town I work in goes for easily 2-3x what my house does 15 miles away.
[15:25:54] <mechanicjay> Of course this town is where a bunch of wall street guys live and commute to NYC everyday.
[15:26:16] <mechanicjay> Blackmoore: Yeah, college for my kids scares the crap out of me.
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[15:26:38] <Landon> Blackmoore++, I'm hoping to do that too
[15:26:46] <LaminatorX> I had a 3rd interview for a QA spot with a local firm last week. Unfortunately they still haven't decided between me and another finalist. They've had a rollout to a major client go weird this week, and they're just small enough to not have dedicated HR staff. The partners havent had time to check references and such while putting out fires. (Sounds like they need a QA person and an HR person.)
[15:26:50] <Landon> get a project to offset my server/domain/luxury costs
[15:32:11] <Blackmoore> mechanicjay: i've been fortunate that my kids have found thier own ways of financing college. I don't feel good about that; but we all knew a long time ago that i was not going to be any help financing.
[15:33:43] <mechanicjay> Blackmoore: Yeah, I'm just about ready to take the stance that, there is no reasonable way for middle class people to pay for college with out going up to the eye-balls in debt, so if you're not a good enough student to nail scholorships or whatever, fine a trade you enjoy and become the best <whatever it is> you can be and you'll be fine.
[15:34:30] <Blackmoore> i did push trade shools. hell i'm still thinking about electrical.
[15:34:30] <mechanicjay> Also, working in Higher Ed, Something needs to change drastically in the way schools are financed in the next 10-20 years, the whole system is just unsustainable.
[15:35:34] <mechanicjay> Higher Ed, like everything else in the US has been built up on a mountain of debt.
[15:35:52] <LaminatorX> We don't really have any hope of paying for our kids' education. The rate at which tuition costs rise compared to wages makes it impossible. We've managed to live in the best school district in the state, and they can go to the community college for free as long as I'm teaching night-classes there, but that's the best we can do for them.
[15:36:15] <mechanicjay> I know a bunch of Union trades folks who make waay more than I do, which is the joke.
[15:36:37] <LaminatorX> Plumbers cannot be off-shored.
[15:37:25] <mechanicjay> Exactly, skilled labor has it's ups and downs, but if you're a good one, with a reputation, you'll be busy.
[15:39:00] <mechanicjay> Thankfully, if the domestic Tech scene ever truly collapses, I have my mechanic skills to fall back on. Everyone needs their shit fixed from time to time.
[15:39:35] <Blackmoore> yup yup. and as i pointed out to my boys HV/AC is both plumbing and electrical, and if you are smart enough you can build your own steam engines/power supply
[15:40:36] <LaminatorX> I've always fallen back on driving when in a tough spot (courier, abbie, etc), but I think autodriving is going to sweep through commercial fleets in the not-too distant future.
[15:40:50] <mechanicjay> Sometime I think the only higher degrees that are going to be really worth it at some point are ME and EE degrees.
[15:41:23] <mechanicjay> LaminatorX: possibly, though people like shit being dropped on their doorstep when their not home. I don't want to run down the truck to get it
[15:41:38] <mechanicjay> though I suppose a delivery robot could be deployed from the truck.
[15:42:42] <LaminatorX> Paying today's prices for a degree in the Arts or Humanities is insane.
[15:44:00] <mechanicjay> LaminatorX: I agree, I don't see the economic payoff, unless it a journey of personal fulfillment.
[15:44:43] <mechanicjay> Though, I have always been of the opinion, that's its not necessarily what your field of study is, as long as you leverage that in some real world way into value to an employer.
[15:45:42] <mechanicjay> The best developer I know was a theater major.
[15:47:59] <LaminatorX> Journeys of personal fulfillment made sense when the pricetag was lower. It's not all about $$$ ROI, but the impact of that cost on your life weight into the balance even if you're studying philosohpy or poetry.
[15:49:56] <mechanicjay> I agree that should be true, but 18yr olds being sold a bill of goods right now and quite honestly are not equipped to make the decision. They're saddled with tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt without really understanding the impact.
[15:52:09] <mechanicjay> I dropped out of college once, worked for a few years until I worked out the value proposition for myself, then went back when I had some life experience under my belt. If more people took a year or two off between high school and college, I think they'd be able to make more informed decisions about what they were getting themselves into.
[15:53:05] <Blackmoore> i agree. i was in no mind to deal with college just out of HS
[15:53:42] <Blackmoore> you are looking at a generation of sharecroppers by a new name - college graduates
[15:54:03] <mechanicjay> Blackmoore: Me either, but there wasn't even a *QUESTION* that I would not be attending college immediately after. So I flunked out my 5th semester...problem solved!
[15:55:55] <mechanicjay> It's hard not get upset about what a waste that was, both personally and financially.
[15:57:55] <mechanicjay> Blackmoore: thats harsh, but probably true. Unfortunately, they entire conversation is about to enter the realm of "Oh, poor little privileged white boys", but such is the reality of our existence. (Apologies if you're not in the above demographic).
[15:59:27] <mechanicjay> Alright, I think I've probably said enough damning things in a public space for one day. I'll stop now.
[16:05:36] <Blackmoore> well, i wont count myself in the privledged, but as you might expect I look around at others and i'm deeply saddend that skin color is probably the olny thing keeping my situation from being magnitudes worse
[16:08:57] <mechanicjay> Blackmoore: there a meme/PR campaign about privilege going on right now which makes me upset. It seems like it's trying to place blame on people for being born into a certain situation. It actually seems really bigoted and prejudicial to me.
[16:13:42] <LaminatorX> Unearned priviledge is neither good nor bad in and of itself, but if you never examine its role in your life and your place in society, it's real easy to be a jerk or otherwise do harm without realizing it.
[16:14:53] <mechanicjay> LaminatorX: agreed. Like with anything, you can choose to do good or evil with the hand you're dealt. Having perspective about your the lot you drew is really important.
[16:17:28] <Blackmoore> yup.
[16:18:36] <mechanicjay> Of course, in the NY Metro area some of this really is an academic argument, I see people of all backgrounds, skin colors and nationalities in every position imaginable on a day to day basis. I contrast this to what I see in Iowa when I visit family and well, homogenous societies have their place too and that's where they draw their strength, where as we drawour strength from diversity. I think theirs room in the world for both, as lo
[16:20:37] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Free Software to Advance Computer Chip Design - http://sylnt.us - teach-yourself-chip-design
[16:22:37] <LaminatorX> A lot of what people talk about WRT white previledge isn't stuff like having your daddy get you into Yale, but rather things being able to walk down the street without being hassled, not being constantly treated like a criminal when you walk into stores, not having to wonder if leaving a low tip will be understood as a comment on service or taken as a racial stereotype, and a thousand other stresses small and large that add up to a m
[16:26:08] <mechanicjay> Right and I think the way to deal with that is to treat everyone the same. Personally, I'm an equal opportunity hater :) I do try really really hard to be color/gender/sexual orientation blind in my day to day dealings with people, but the best thing we can do it instill that blindness in our children from the start -- that's where we can really change the world, with our actions on a hyper local level.
[16:27:15] <mechanicjay> I love that my kid has diverse group of friends more over that he doesn't see it as anything but normal.
[16:37:27] * TheMightyBuzzard groans
[16:37:27] <LaminatorX> Being even handed is a big part of the solution. Another one that's very important when you're in a position of priviledge is listening to and taking seriously people with different perspectives. A lot of things they struggle with are invisible or far less challenging to me, so it's very easy for me to overlook ways in which I might be a part of the problem without realizing it.
[16:37:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> hot
[16:38:22] <LaminatorX> We've had nice weather this week in STL, apart from the teargas.
[16:38:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> and also, "check your privilege" = prejudging someone based on their skin color. just as racist as assuming a black guy is a crack dealer.
[16:39:19] <LaminatorX> That can get tossed around in ways that shut-down conversation, which is a shame.
[16:39:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> almost always does
[16:39:37] <mechanicjay> agreed
[16:39:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's as honest-discussion-friendly as ethanol-fueled
[16:40:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> /rant
[16:42:28] <LaminatorX> At it's essence, it's more or less supposed to mean what I said above, but it often gets used in a "STFU, cis/straight/white/man, your opinion doesn't count." manner, which is not exaclt helpful.
[16:43:48] <Blackmoore> *nods, then heads off to lunch
[16:44:05] <LaminatorX> Oh yeah, food.
[16:44:38] <mechanicjay> ditto.
[16:44:40] LaminatorX is now known as LaminatorX|out2lunch
[16:45:12] * TheMightyBuzzard had tater chips for breakfast 15m ago
[16:53:40] Space_Man_ is now known as Space_Man
[17:14:59] <Blackmoore> eh it was food.
[17:29:04] <Blackmoore> http://www.artofmanliness.com
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[17:41:39] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Track Who's Buying Politicians with "Greenhouse" Browser Add-On - http://sylnt.us - who-watches-the-watchers
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[18:26:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> !todo
[18:26:04] <Bender> todo for themightybuzzard: 1) whip it, whip it good 2) get m2 working 3) argue for the death of Overrated and Underrated 4) IDN support 5) utf8mb4 upgrade 6) queued articles on the submissions page discussion 7) discuss allowing extra html formatting tags in comments
[18:30:47] <Blackmoore> TheMightyBuzzard: would you be happier with a straight up +1/-1 rating system? the words are kind superfulous.
[18:31:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> Blackmoore, for what?
[18:31:24] <Blackmoore> #3 on your list - overrated under rated
[18:32:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> eh, nah i think it's better we have the words or -1 becomes -1 Disagree by default
[18:32:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> over/underrated though really don't help. they're abused more than used.
[18:33:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> tell you what we could do though. put a -1 Disagree in and make it not work.
[18:33:50] <Blackmoore> :)
[18:34:05] <Blackmoore> i like that
[18:34:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, i dunno if it'd work or not but the thought amuses me.
[18:40:20] <Blackmoore> suppose we'll bring it up in a staff meeting when we arent dealing with urgent issues.
[18:41:17] <Blackmoore> i like #7 on your list. it would be nice to have a bit more formatting control
[18:42:02] <ar> NCommander: crap. had no time to visit the place and tommorow's a national holiday
[18:46:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> Blackmoore, nod nod. i think we could add ins/del/sub/sup/strike without any issues whatsoever.
[18:54:19] <Blackmoore> do we have I and B? i cant recall
[18:55:06] <Blackmoore> i'd like font+1/font-1.. but that's just me i guess.
[18:55:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, we have i/b
[18:56:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> but no, no font sizing or it will lead to badness
[18:56:52] <Blackmoore> you wont have any argument from me on that.
[18:57:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> ditto color
[18:57:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> if they really need that there's always Stylish
[19:00:09] <Blackmoore> sub/sup/strike are obvious good things. this isn't particularrily good to display equations; but (fortunately) we havent seen anyone try to post a formula yet.
[19:03:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> a lot of that will be taken care of by unicode once it rolls out. plenty of glyphs in there for that depending on your font.
[19:05:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> plus ☕
[19:05:48] <Blackmoore> I keep kicking around the IMG tag.. i freeking hate videos in the articles, but it's freeking 2014. sometimes a graphic or a video is the right thing.
[19:06:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod, it's a toughie
[19:06:03] <Blackmoore> and i'm not sure what side of the argument i'm on.
[19:06:22] <Blackmoore> or if i'm just old and set in my ways :P
[19:06:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> video i'm not interested in. i read faster than they talk.
[19:07:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> images though can be worthwhile.
[19:07:52] <Blackmoore> i suspect that because the articles are vetted and edited it could be acceptable.. as long as the editor can proof the damn thing. (i could not my workplace has blocked streams)
[19:08:39] <Blackmoore> but on the otherhand i think a lot of the crowd here likes text better
[19:08:40] <mechanicjay> I hate videos on the internet in general. They're slow, as TheMightyBuzzard said, i can read faster and they're decided subpar on a phone or in an open office setting, where erm, you shouldn't be on SN anyway
[19:09:56] <Blackmoore> and noone like automatic launcing video.
[19:10:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... maybe a user pref toggle for story images on or off
[19:10:24] <Blackmoore> that would help
[19:11:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> easiest way to do that would be javascript but it could be done without as well
[19:12:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> pretty sure we really only want them in submissions though. journals... it could get a bit too facebooky. and comments are right out.
[19:13:32] <mechanicjay> IDK, the easiest way to solve this is to just have a link, then if I want to view the pic or video or whatever, I just click on it. No preferences, no js needed, just a deliberate action on the part of the user.
[19:14:02] <mechanicjay> and yes, def not it comments, dear lord, could you imagine.
[19:14:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod
[19:14:36] <mechanicjay> goat.cx everywhere.
[19:14:44] * mechanicjay shudders
[19:15:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> i can see ethanol-fueled with an enormous goatse in his sig right now.
[19:15:19] <mechanicjay> an animated gif version with panning and zooming
[19:15:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep
[19:16:01] <Blackmoore> yeah we dont want to turn this into Fark
[19:16:46] <mechanicjay> Honestly, I think the compact guaranteed text interface is the appeal here.
[19:18:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> i wouldn't mind an image under the editorial condition that it add significant value to the summary without taking up too much room.
[19:18:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> and also show only when you click into the story's page itself rather than on the front page.
[19:18:39] <Blackmoore> even better
[19:18:54] <mechanicjay> Okay, I can dig that, img only if it's actually worth 1000 words.
[19:20:54] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Japanese Farmers Just Got a New Pesticide: The Flightless Ladybug - http://sylnt.us - house-is-on-fire
[19:21:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod. don't need a graph too small to read or a picture of obama if it's a political story but there's bound to be a story or two we've covered that could benefit. i'm just too lazy to think of which.
[19:22:11] <TK> Could be useful for tabular info
[19:22:32] <TK> If you don't want to go through the PITA of making one in html
[19:23:10] <TK> Though I suppose you could inspect element on the story page
[19:27:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, we need the blink tag too
[19:27:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> mostly because it doesn't work in firefox, so we could use it to annoy IE users.
[19:28:01] <Blackmoore> well at some point soon I'll ask for training on the editor and I'll have a better feel for how that might work.
[19:28:24] <Blackmoore> too much work and home stuff this week.
[19:28:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> Blackmoore, it's a setting in the db but right now it's one setting for journals/comments/submissions. easy to split though.
[19:34:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> just for the record, i HATE political celebrities. they get their panties all in a wad and then spout off like we're supposed to believe they know a damned thing.
[19:37:45] <Blackmoore> the only political celeberty i can accept is Teddy Rosevelt.
[19:44:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> some people i just do not need to follow on twitter. they never say anything worth hearing and spread around hate every chance they get.
[19:46:18] <ar> wait, is there actually any content on twitter that's worth reading?
[19:49:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> ar, shatner's funny. nathan fillion too.
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[19:50:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> believe i'll have a nap
[19:56:43] <Blackmoore> https://twitter.com
[19:56:44] <monopoly> ^ 03DRUNK HULK (DRUNKHULK) on Twitter
[20:00:47] <mechanicjay> I miss the loss of <blink> It made it so easy to make a gaudy website.
[20:01:33] <mechanicjay> ^ hrm.. "I miss blink" or "I lament the loss of", pick your favorite revision.
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[20:22:25] <Blackmoore> i need an <LSD> tag
[20:23:14] <Blackmoore> blink was bad, but ever changing color,font and size...
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[20:42:45] <Blackmoore> oh! i can write it up as a JS heh heh heh,
[20:46:28] <crutchy> for april 1 next year maybe SN could have a home page the looks like a windows 95 desktop with a working start menu and icons got stories etc
[20:46:47] <crutchy> got?
[20:47:10] <crutchy> *for
[20:48:33] <crutchy> ~sed on
[20:48:33] <exec> sed already enabled for 10#Soylent
[20:48:38] <crutchy> ~log on
[20:48:38] <exec> logging enabled for 8#Soylent
[20:48:38] <exec> http://irciv.us.to
[20:50:13] <Blackmoore> take a look at http://thedecibelkid.com
[20:50:13] <monopoly> ^ 03Guru Meditation
[20:51:17] <crutchy> aww can't move icons :/
[20:51:25] <crutchy> still cool
[20:51:33] <Blackmoore> but you should be able to move the windows
[20:52:03] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Daily Mail: Imported Loom Bands Could Cause Cancer - http://sylnt.us - cheap-but-not-so-cheerful
[20:52:23] <Blackmoore> might be able to em borrow the code to make a win 95 version
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[20:53:26] <crutchy> don't think the JS would be hard
[20:53:58] <crutchy> would take time to set up though
[20:55:12] <arti> sounds like a job for llvm
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[21:37:40] <Lagg> NCommander: I'm kind of worried that I've been first posting and starting threads that grow into more than half of the total comments on a given summary. Is the registration count dipping or something? Also when is are the paid subscriptions coming for I want prices to consider and I want a badge suffixed to my name that says "Off his meds" since I'm apparently crazy and misanthropic and I want a cookie and I'm tired and my butt hurts
[21:38:48] <NCommander> !current-uid
[21:38:48] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 4633, owned by twofold_beef
[21:38:56] <crutchy> ~queue
[21:38:59] <exec> *** SN submission queue: 15
[21:39:00] <exec> *** http://soylentnews.org
[21:39:04] <NCommander> Lagg, the growth rate been somewhat slow for awhile
[21:39:25] <NCommander> Lagg, paid subscriptions are almost here, we've got one last blocker to resolve it, although I don't think we have badges in the initial relesae
[21:39:56] <crutchy> NCommander need a drive by download that auto-registers
[21:39:58] <Lagg> I really don't know why there is not more comment activity except for the fact that there is not sufficient plugging occuring. I've been trying to do so since I can't find any decent submission material.
[21:40:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, just the star badge.
[21:40:13] <crutchy> hmm do they even work anymore (drive-by dl)?
[21:41:07] <crutchy> or i guess you could just auto-register on first page visit
[21:41:09] <Lagg> Also I figured out why I can't connect via my bouncer, it connects fine but irssi doesn't like two networks being served over proxy like that for some reason. Will have to work around this.
[21:41:24] * crutchy wonders whether fb does crap like that just for marketing purposes
[21:41:32] Lagg is now known as SeriousLagg
[21:42:02] crutchy is now known as SeriousCrutchy
[21:42:05] <SeriousCrutchy> :p
[21:42:12] SeriousCrutchy is now known as crutchy
[21:42:29] chromas is now known as Serious
[21:42:37] * Serious is suiing you all for trademakr infringement
[21:42:40] <crutchy> YahooSerious
[21:42:51] Serious is now known as Serial
[21:43:06] <NCommander> ~weather anchorage
[21:43:07] <crutchy> /nick Cereal
[21:43:07] monopoly is now known as Cereal
[21:43:11] <NCommander> ...
[21:43:11] <exec> weather for 10Anchorage, AK US at 1:19 pm (AKDT) ~ 24 mins ago: temp: 1014.4°C (58°F), dp: 1012.3°C (54.1°F), press: 101001.8 mb (+0.1 mb/18 mins), humid: 1086%, wind: 100 km/h (0 mph) @ 10329°
[21:43:19] <NCommander> Thought it was cold todya
[21:43:42] <crutchy> hmm maybe i should change exec's nick to SeriousLag
[21:44:08] <crutchy> 12.3 is a bit nippy
[21:44:13] <crutchy> for me anyway
[21:44:14] <arti> well, we can create a bunch of accounts
[21:44:20] <arti> let's do what reddit did!
[21:44:21] <Serial> two gs with a non-breaking space or something at the end
[21:44:31] <crutchy> register IP address acccounts
[21:45:01] <crutchy> with SN email addresses
[21:45:11] <SeriousLagg> NCommander, whoever else: Is there SSL on port 7000
[21:45:23] <crutchy> prolly
[21:45:30] <arti> what
[21:45:35] <arti> sounds like irc
[21:45:41] <crutchy> i think there is by default in charybdis
[21:45:57] * arti isn't sure if that's a question or a statement
[21:46:05] <SeriousLagg> Well according to nmap there is. Hrm.
[21:46:22] <arti> pop quiz: what usually operates on that port?
[21:46:33] <SeriousLagg> I'm determined to do this now because goddamn web clients
[21:46:55] <crutchy> oh maybe not
[21:47:25] <crutchy> port = 5000, 6665 .. 6669;
[21:47:25] <crutchy> sslport = 6697;
[21:49:16] <crutchy> from https://www.iana.org not much
[21:49:23] <crutchy> some fileserverythingy
[21:50:07] * crutchy seems to remember the url for that list used to be much shorter
[21:51:04] <arti> it's a common irc port as well
[21:52:30] <crutchy> i thought i saw it in some kinda irc setup thingy not long ago. maybe it wasn't charybdis
[21:55:13] <crutchy> maybe it was something like wireshark
[21:56:19] <arti> hey crutchy, found a new spot for you
[21:56:19] <arti> http://www.rightmove.co.uk
[21:57:37] <crutchy> nah i don't like the thought of being barraged by paris hilton songs
[22:01:31] <crutchy> this might be nicer: http://news.domain.com.au
[22:02:11] <arti> the fun part, lugging groceries up
[22:02:19] <arti> "damn, left the milk!"
[22:02:35] <crutchy> lol and the damn lifts are broken
[22:02:35] <ciri> HEHEHEHE
[22:02:54] <crutchy> luckily eureka is only 80-something floors
[22:03:02] <crutchy> or 90
[22:03:07] <arti> feel it sway in the wind
[22:04:20] <crutchy> i remember visiting the rialto towers years ago could feel the sway, and its only 55 floors
[22:05:05] <crutchy> rialto still the nicest looking building in melbourne
[22:05:11] <arti> :D
[22:05:17] <arti> we should find the nicest looking person
[22:06:30] <crutchy> https://www.google.com
[22:06:30] <Cereal> ^ 03rialto towers - Google Search
[22:06:45] <crutchy> definitely not natalie portman
[22:07:09] <crutchy> the chick off hunger games looks ok
[22:07:52] <arti> http://www.ancient-origins.net!bDlVIz
[22:09:19] <crutchy> this guy is definitely in the running for nicest looking person: http://ww2.hdnux.com
[22:09:42] <arti> dead tired
[22:09:55] <crutchy> hasn't got his makeup on
[22:10:12] <SeriousLagg> Irssi fer fucks sake
[22:10:56] <crutchy> just use xchat dude
[22:11:12] <SeriousLagg> It's been years and years, even since psybnc, that people have said it needs to stop choking on multiple networks and work intuitively with /network -user
[22:11:16] <SeriousLagg> but it still does
[22:11:27] <SeriousLagg> crutchy: I need ncurses client
[22:12:02] <SeriousLagg> I do my job on windows and am logged into a linux system to do important stuff and it's my server machine so no X
[22:12:19] <crutchy> can't get xchat for windows?
[22:12:33] <SeriousLagg> I can I guess but it feels weird to run an IRC client on it
[22:12:48] <crutchy> weird as in sexually?
[22:12:56] <SeriousLagg> Probably
[22:13:29] <SeriousLagg> Maybe it's time to switch away from irssi though, there's really no excuse for stuff like this anymore
[22:13:50] <crutchy> Konomi is the irssi guru (well she uses it anyways)
[22:13:51] <arti> run a bouncer
[22:14:21] <SeriousLagg> :|
[22:14:33] <SeriousLagg> I do run one, that's what I'm trying to get irssi to cooperate with
[22:14:59] <arti> what about bitchx?
[22:15:35] <arti> why the command line client though?
[22:15:42] -!- FunPika has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[22:15:43] <SeriousLagg> Would rather use weechat or something, bitchx is what I moved to irssi from
[22:16:59] <SeriousLagg> Yeah will try weechat later. Am tired of fighting irssi on everything
[22:17:22] <SeriousLagg> As much as I hate to say it having such a long history with it, it's become redundant
[22:18:11] <SeriousLagg> \msg nickserv help register
[22:18:15] <SeriousLagg> Woops
[22:19:17] SeriousLagg is now known as Lagg
[22:20:25] <Lagg> Am now committed for I have registered. Will hopefully be back later on a proper client.
[22:20:38] -!- Lagg has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[22:21:10] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Dead Steve Jobs Sued By Own Shareholders In No-Poach Pact Brouhaha - http://sylnt.us - death-and-taxes-and-lawsuits
[22:22:51] <Blackmoore> eh I'm out -
[22:23:00] Blackmoore is now known as blackmoore|afk
[22:29:19] <crutchy> i gotta go to workipoos. catch yas later
[22:44:09] <NCommander> Oh awesome, my bike fenders came in
[22:57:24] <arti> sweet, does that mean you can navigate puddles once more?
[23:01:12] <paulej72> NCommander: did you order studded tires yet.
[23:50:18] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - How Arbitrary is Language? - http://sylnt.us - wot-'e-said
[23:58:41] -!- Space_Man has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]