#Soylent | Logs for 2014-08-13

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[00:18:53] <Konomi> http://www.wired.com
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[01:21:07] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Why Stealing Cars Went Out of Fashion - http://sylnt.us - but-they-still-steal-the-contents
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[02:01:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[02:01:36] <Bender> karma - coffee: 564
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[02:15:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> now you're just trying to confuse me, Bytram
[02:15:21] <Bytram> how am I doing?
[02:15:21] <ciri> very carefully and then some
[02:15:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> fairly well
[02:15:45] * Bytram is thinking of maybe a table or desk, next
[02:15:57] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:16:00] <Bytram> hmmm
[02:16:04] <Bytram> knob knob =)
[02:16:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> ottoman. that way you can either be a very old turk or a footstool
[02:16:22] <Bytram> well played, sir!
[02:16:31] <Bytram> do I get my own empire?
[02:16:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> sure, why not. it worked out really well giving the jews one.
[02:17:21] <Bytram> hmmm, I was thinking more along the lines of the Empire State :P
[02:18:08] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: any word on when the site update's gonna happen? I'm working sat, but somehow have sun off atm
[02:18:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh yeah, you can have that one.
[02:18:58] <Bytram> on 2nd thought, too many people there to have to deal with... I think I'll just go back to a footstool
[02:18:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, hopefully before that. few teething issues on the chillax deploy and waiting on NC to be conscious, rested, and free
[02:19:17] <Bytram> what did we bite off?
[02:20:38] <Bytram> http://go.theregister.com
[02:20:40] <monopoly> ^ 03Beware of Greeks bearing spammy small omicrons, says Google • The Register ( http://www.theregister.co.uk )
[02:21:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> eh, prolly nothing an apache restart won't fix.
[02:21:36] <Bytram> k, thnks
[02:21:48] <Bytram> am about to check out that link I just pasted in.
[02:22:25] * Bytram would ahve titled it: Beware of Geeks Bearing Grifts
[02:22:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> wonder if they'll opensource their regexs
[02:23:56] <Bytram> The Unicode community, Google explains, has put together rules for detecting such obfuscations, called Restriction Level Detection.
[02:23:59] <Bytram> http://www.unicode.org
[02:24:00] <monopoly> ^ 03UTS #39: Unicode Security Mechanisms
[02:24:18] <Bytram> https://support.google.com
[02:24:18] <monopoly> ^ 03Bulk Senders Guidelines - Gmail Help
[02:24:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh bugger. ima have to get those all incorporated
[02:24:57] <Bytram> maybe, but maybe not...
[02:25:07] <Bytram> Using this standard, Gmail should be able to detect attempts at obfuscating a fake link using a look-alike character, with a mail rule stating that The authenticating domain, envelope From domain, payload From domain, reply-to domain, and sender domain should not violate the highly-restrictive Unicode Security Profile guidelines for international domain names.
[02:25:38] <Bytram> thisis *all* about e-mail addresses - that's a different, though related - subset of URIs
[02:26:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod
[02:26:09] <Bytram> see aso: http://www.theregister.co.uk
[02:26:10] <monopoly> ^ 03Gmail gains support for non-ASCII email addresses • The Register
[02:26:42] <Bytram> hmmm, RFC 5630 -- that does not sound fmailiar to me.
[02:26:54] * Bytram looks to see if he can find a link
[02:27:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> how about 6530?
[02:27:29] <chromas> Dylsexia
[02:27:33] <Bytram> that would prolly work a bit better; thanks!
[02:27:37] <Bytram> coffee++
[02:27:37] <Bender> karma - coffee: 565
[02:27:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[02:27:51] <Bender> karma - coffee: 566
[02:27:57] <Bytram> http://tools.ietf.org
[02:27:58] <monopoly> ^ 03RFC 6530 - Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email ( rfc6530.html )
[02:29:13] <Bytram> ahhh,... Email! -- we'd need to be aware of it when someone provides an email address with a new account; not sure whether is matters whether they want to keep it private or not.
[02:29:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> probably going to have to write some rules not allowing non-latin characters to be part of latin words.
[02:29:45] <Bytram> they could mark it private at first, change it to be nasty, and then make it visible... need to check before they can save it.
[02:30:11] <Bytram> \\\\ot sure about that
[02:30:14] <Bytram> ug.
[02:30:17] <Bytram> cant type
[02:30:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> think we're pretty restrictive about email addresses.
[02:30:29] <Bytram> not sure; too many corner cases to think of atm
[02:30:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> think they still have to be ascii and follow the rules
[02:30:35] <Bytram> hope so.
[02:31:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> no worries really. not a lot of damage you can do with an email link
[02:31:42] <Bytram> that sounds like a challenge
[02:31:47] <Bytram> :P
[02:32:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> just make sure to break stuff on dev not the other one
[02:32:27] <Bytram> maybe a troll account that links to a malware site?
[02:32:37] <Bytram> nod nod on breaking stuff
[02:32:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> could link to an email account on a malware site but still has to be an email address
[02:34:01] <Bytram> yup, agreed. BUT, they could make it look all nice and innocent by choosing an IDN ( http://www.ietf.org or https://en.wikipedia.org)
[02:34:05] <monopoly> ^ 04Wiki: 03Internationalized domain name: An internationalized domain name (IDN) is an Internet domain name that contains at least one label that is displayed in software applications, in whole or in part, in a language-specific script or alphabet, such as Arabic, Chinese, Cyril...
[02:34:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> if we supported idns, yeah
[02:34:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> i know for sure they don't work in links, dunno bout email for sure.
[02:34:41] <Bytram> good question; I dunno if we do or don't
[02:34:44] <Bytram> brb
[02:35:39] * Bytram wonders what the other site does / does-not do wrt IDN, etc.
[02:36:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> don't think they allow them at all
[02:36:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> or ipv6 unless they've changed that
[02:36:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> anyway, heading to bed. see you lot tomorrow.
[02:37:36] <Bytram> sounds like a plan /me needs some shuteye, too.
[02:37:47] <Bytram> sleep well, my friend.
[02:39:00] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: if you're still around, found another RFC to add to our library: http://tools.ietf.org
[02:39:01] <monopoly> ^ 03RFC 5890 - Internationalized Domain Names for Applications (IDNA): Definitions and Document Framework ( rfc5890.html )
[02:39:47] <Bytram> that, and this: https://en.wikipedia.org
[02:39:49] <monopoly> ^ 04Wiki: 03Punycode: In computing, Punycode is an instance of a general encoding syntax (Bootstring) by which a string of Unicode characters is transformed uniquely and reversibly into a smaller, restricted character set
[02:40:23] <Bytram> oh my... http://www.faqs.org
[02:42:43] <Bytram> paste blob:
[02:42:45] <Bytram> Domain names are used by users to identify and connect to Internet
[02:42:45] <Bytram> hosts and other network resources. The security of the Internet is
[02:42:45] <Bytram> compromised if a user entering a single internationalized name is
[02:42:45] <Bytram> connected to different servers based on different interpretations of
[02:42:46] <Bytram> the internationalized domain name. In addition to characters that
[02:42:48] <Bytram> are permitted by IDNA2003 and its mapping conventions (see
[02:42:50] <Bytram> Section 4.6), the current specification changes the interpretation of
[02:42:52] <Bytram> a few characters that were mapped to others in the earlier version;
[02:42:56] <Bytram> zone administrators should be aware of the problems that this might
[02:42:58] <Bytram> raise and take appropriate measures. The context for this issue is
[02:43:00] <Bytram> discussed in more detail in the Rationale document [RFC5894].
[02:43:02] <Bytram> http://tools.ietf.org
[02:43:03] <monopoly> ^ 03RFC 5894 - Internationalized Domain Names for Applications (IDNA): Background, Explanation, and Rationale ( rfc5894.html )
[02:43:33] * Bytram is gonna stop reading now; need more before I can dive into all *that*!
[02:43:38] <Bytram> g'night everyone!
[02:44:26] <Bytram|away> ugh, one last one for posterity: In addition to the Security Considerations material that appears in
[02:44:27] <Bytram|away> this document, the Bidi document [RFC5893] contains a discussion of
[02:44:27] <Bytram|away> security issues specific to labels containing characters from scripts
[02:44:27] <Bytram|away> that are normally written right to left.
[02:44:35] <Bytram|away> http://tools.ietf.org
[02:44:36] <monopoly> ^ 03RFC 5893 - Right-to-Left Scripts for Internationalized Domain Names for Applications (IDNA) ( rfc5893.html )
[02:46:08] <geotti> graph-theory--
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[03:10:29] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Vice-Virtue Bundles Could Encourage Healthier Eating - http://sylnt.us - would-that-be-a-BigMacViceBundle-with-lentils?
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[04:54:03] * NCommander is assembling his bugout kit
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[05:26:05] <Popeidol> I started to make a bugout bag once
[05:26:38] <Popeidol> it ended up having some emergency blankets, firelighting tools, a kindle, and pasta
[05:26:51] <Popeidol> the attempt ended when I couldn't find an inflatable raft for really cheap
[05:30:02] <Popeidol> maybe I can swap in an inflatable mattress instead
[05:31:15] <xunie-laptop> Pasta?
[05:31:19] <xunie-laptop> No noodles?
[05:31:25] <xunie-laptop> Or canned soup?
[05:32:07] <Popeidol> canned soup is pretty heavy, and ordinary spaghetti has really good packing ratio
[05:32:37] <Popeidol> obviously I thought this through
[05:33:01] <xunie-laptop> Do you have a cup or beaker?
[05:33:19] <xunie-laptop> Why are you preparing for doom, anyways?
[05:34:44] <geotti> because it's inevitable. BWAHAHAHA!
[05:35:17] * geotti apologizes and gets back to working on his research proposal.
[05:38:43] <Popeidol> mostly just as a conversation starter, I guess
[05:38:55] <Popeidol> see how well it works?
[05:39:15] <xunie-laptop> I'd love to try an MRE.
[05:40:51] <geotti> Can you guys come up with some (scientific) reasons/motivation why I would want to write an immersive graph interaction environment (aka holo-deck for networks)?
[05:41:28] <geotti> #gephi on freenode is empty and ##math is full of 700+ students (or so it seems)
[05:53:59] <geotti> if bug out bags are a way to start a conversation, I guess my question is a way to kill one
[06:00:33] <Popeidol> can you rephrase your question to involve bug-out bags in some way?
[06:04:06] <chromas> Popeidol: inflatable raft, you say? This guy found one: http://i.4cdn.org
[06:14:56] <chromas> Alright, who had the failed harddrive? My computer saw that she decided to follow suit. Thanks a lot!
[06:20:55] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Turin, Italy Plans To Be All-FOSS By March 2016 - http://sylnt.us - foss-busting-out-all-over-dept.
[06:40:07] <SirFinkus> probably me chromas
[06:40:16] <SirFinkus> hope you have backups like me!
[06:42:09] <SirFinkus> the drive dead completely, or is it a fs thing?
[06:43:51] <chromas> It's just the system drive. Data's on a raid 1 pair. It gets stuck at the bootloader. Been doing that some sometimes resuming from suspend but pulling the optical drive fixed it. Until now
[06:44:16] <SirFinkus> it almost sounds like some kind of bullshit mobo issue
[06:44:46] <SirFinkus> I wish windows made it easier to manage partitions
[06:45:09] <chromas> Linux++
[06:45:09] <Bender> karma - linux: 3
[06:45:25] <SirFinkus> best thing about *nix
[06:47:48] <chromas> Also having it offline allows me to give it a blowjob
[06:48:30] <Popeidol> somebody said the magic word and I am now paying attention
[06:48:47] <chromas> Ding ding highlight ding
[06:49:47] <SirFinkus> anyone else ever get hungry as fuck, make an awesome elaborate meal, then you aren't hungry anymore?
[06:50:04] <chromas> No
[06:50:07] <SirFinkus> apologies for the atrocious English, it's irc and nobody will remember in 2 hours
[06:50:15] <Popeidol> usually that's only because I've been eating parts of the meal while making it
[06:50:27] <chromas> ^
[06:50:50] <SirFinkus> may have been the issue in my case
[06:51:13] <SirFinkus> I got beer, made awesome stir fry, then decided to put it in an omlette
[06:51:30] <chromas> Turns out all my HDDs are wd. Well that's a shocker. I guess it's about time it gave me one in the stink
[06:51:38] <Popeidol> meal within a meal
[06:51:40] <Popeidol> mealception++
[06:51:40] <Bender> karma - mealception: 1
[06:51:51] <SirFinkus> dude, omlettes are aweseome
[06:51:58] <SirFinkus> omlettes++
[06:51:58] <Bender> karma - omlettes: 1
[06:52:05] <SirFinkus> put anything in them
[06:52:25] <chromas> Salsa
[06:52:52] <SirFinkus> I made this awesome avacodo sauce
[06:52:56] <SirFinkus> with some spice in it
[06:53:02] <SirFinkus> wasn't guacamole, more creamy
[06:53:13] <SirFinkus> best thing ever on everything
[06:53:13] <chromas> Avocado++
[06:53:13] <Bender> karma - avocado: 1
[06:53:28] <SirFinkus> yeah, pretty much the best whatever the fuck it is
[06:53:39] <chromas> +s are a chore on this keyboard
[06:53:40] <SirFinkus> fruit? vegetable? legume? who cares
[06:55:24] <SirFinkus> berry apparently
[06:57:40] <chromas> That means you can make pies and preserves
[07:02:08] <SirFinkus> Avocado Pie is a thing
[07:14:13] <crutchy> coffee++
[07:14:13] <Bender> karma - coffee: 567
[07:22:12] <crutchy> we need more tags in articles
[07:22:53] <crutchy> it should be easy to click a microsoft link and start bashing
[07:30:59] <ar> coffee--
[07:30:59] <Bender> karma - coffee: 566
[07:41:54] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Comcast Sponsors Honors Dinner for Commissioner During Merger Review - http://sylnt.us - crooks-and-liars
[07:43:00] <geotti> pies and preserves... good for bug out bags and immersive 3d graph manipulation systems. Anyone have an idea (i.e. scientific motivation) why I would need one instead of projecting on a plane (i.e. screen) as usual?
[07:47:38] <Popeidol> so you're looking for 3D/4D datasets that would be easier to understand or manipulate if you were immersed in it?
[07:48:37] <Popeidol> I feel that must apply to a lot of fields
[07:49:29] <Popeidol> but given I don't really deal with any 3D data I'm struggling to think of any
[07:51:54] <geotti> Popeidol: yes!
[07:52:48] <geotti> Popeidol: but in an abstract sense. Something like "to better manipulate hierachical graphs..." preferably leaning less towards HCI
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[08:03:13] <geotti> Popeidol: I'm also looking for justification that projecting (possibly, certain) n-dimensional stuff on 3 planes is easier (the projection itself and/or for user comprehension) than on a plane
[08:09:43] <crutchy> ooh
[08:09:46] <crutchy> janrinok
[08:09:46] <crutchy> 834
[08:09:46] <crutchy> Programming experience: Real-time avionic systems
[08:09:54] <crutchy> fuckin sweet :D
[08:10:20] <crutchy> geotti++ g'day
[08:10:20] <Bender> karma - geotti: 1
[08:11:01] <geotti> I think I finally got something (even though it's HCI): "This innovative tool relies on a force-directed layout method to span the 3D space along with several immersive setups [...] to offer an efficient user- experience." FINALLY! 2 hours before submission time
[08:11:18] <crutchy> sounds heavy
[08:11:25] <crutchy> n-dimensional stuff
[08:11:52] <geotti> yeah, well, I'm not doing the math, so it's quite easy : )
[08:11:54] <crutchy> make sure you mention seven of nine in there somewhere
[08:13:46] <crutchy> "this immersive 3D user experience will make for a great toy for 15 year old boys to whack off with... millions of these systems will be sold"
[08:13:50] <geotti> crutchy: I already included pics of prometheus 2 (http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/prometheus-2-michael-fassbender.jpg) and a screenshot from the transcendance graph/network fly-through... I'm not sure where to include her
[08:14:41] <crutchy> ps i have nfi what i'm talking about, but you prolly figured :p
[08:14:43] <geotti> well, the project that's going to sit on top of this core, will be able to use the underlying graph, project it onto a 3d model and interact with the environment... That's more interesting ; )
[08:16:38] <crutchy> is it just me or does that promethius guy have a bewb attached to his arm?
[08:16:43] <geotti> Oh YES: "2D [systems] do not optimally match the human perception capabilities" JACKPOT!
[08:17:04] <crutchy> ~queue
[08:17:08] <exec> *** SN submission queue: 20
[08:17:08] <exec> *** http://soylentnews.org
[08:17:13] <crutchy> wow!
[08:18:23] <geotti> I don't see any boobs there, but maybe it's just me ; )
[08:19:33] <crutchy> sounds like you're working on a lit review or something
[08:19:40] <crutchy> thesis?
[08:20:04] <NCommander> ITs been awhile since it got that full
[08:20:21] <crutchy> yeah. hence my surprise
[08:20:32] <crutchy> 20++
[08:20:32] <Bender> karma - 20: 1
[08:20:53] <crutchy> far-queue++
[08:20:58] <crutchy> hmm
[08:21:04] <crutchy> far_queue++
[08:21:04] <Bender> karma - far_queue: 1
[08:21:36] <crutchy> how's it going boss?
[08:21:49] <crutchy> are you a snowman again?
[08:23:55] <crutchy> ~last xlefay
[08:24:00] <geotti> crutchy: initial presentation for my masters thesis
[08:24:07] <exec> last privmsg for xlefay in #soylent: [2014-07-31 03:06:11] ha
[08:27:38] <NCommander> he poofed again
[08:32:22] <crutchy> i thought i saw him since then. he bipd my xchat when i was half asleep. cant remember whether it was this channel though :/
[08:34:47] <crutchy> Aug 12 03:39:09 <xlefay> crutchy: I'm still alive lol
[08:34:48] <crutchy> Aug 12 03:39:25 <xlefay> Just can't be as active on IRC as I used to be, got actual stuff to do nowadays :(
[08:36:21] <geotti> NCommander: you should install a jabber server for staff and make it mandatory IMO (or, you know, use phones)
[08:36:58] * geotti had good experience with jitsi as a client
[08:39:04] <geotti> and prosody (http://prosody.im) as server
[08:39:19] <NCommander> geotti, honestly IRC > jabber
[08:39:32] <NCommander> though perhaps there's merrit in creating a SN jabber system
[08:39:34] <geotti> for some values of ">"
[08:39:46] * crutchy never used irc before SN... but it's awesome :D
[08:40:27] <geotti> the smartphone clients for jabber are better IMO (unless you have an actual keyboard), so people are more reachable
[08:40:33] <crutchy> actually i think i tried it once before to visit some debian thingy but i was there for maybe half an hour
[08:40:45] <Subsentient> Repent, smartphone user! Before the Borg cubes get here!
[08:40:49] <crutchy> never really got it
[08:41:02] <Popeidol> irc and jabber are solving slightly different problems
[08:41:06] <crutchy> Subsentient i'm a dumb smartphone user
[08:41:25] <Popeidol> jabber is best for maintaining communication with people at a static address, irc is better for general group collaboration and conversation
[08:41:27] <crutchy> ~define jabber
[08:41:28] <geotti> irc's the best, just don't go to #math on freenode and post a question about motivation for an immersive graph manipulation environment
[08:41:29] <exec> [urbandictionary] 3jabber: an open instant messaging standards protocol, based on xmpp (extensible messaging and presence protocol)
[08:41:43] <crutchy> ah
[08:41:49] <crutchy> whatever that means :/
[08:42:21] <geotti> crutchy: it's what whatsapp raped and used (and google, and many others)
[08:42:26] <NCommander> geotti, Android IRC is a decent client
[08:42:28] <NCommander> battery hog though
[08:42:55] <crutchy> smartphones suck for typing on
[08:43:00] <Subsentient> Anyone have experience with Kyocera phones?
[08:43:13] <Subsentient> They are incredibly durable, long lasting phones.
[08:43:58] <Subsentient> They mostly make CDMA phones but DAMN, their phones are good.
[08:44:05] <geotti> NCommander: it's just an idea, since it works like like your private icq
[08:44:20] * Subsentient is a dumbphone user
[08:44:22] <geotti> Subsentient: I loved the hagenuk phone
[08:44:36] <geotti> Subsentient: I think the first one with an integrated antenna
[08:44:41] <crutchy> lol @ CDMA DAMN
[08:44:53] * crutchy is a dumbphone
[08:44:57] * geotti is an iPhone user ; )
[08:45:08] * Subsentient is a PalmOS user
[08:45:22] <crutchy> Subsentient s/OS//
[08:45:22] <exec> <crutchy> <Subsentient> is a Palm user
[08:45:29] <crutchy> ;)
[08:45:38] <geotti> s/user/poweruser
[08:45:38] <exec> <geotti> is an iPhone poweruser ; )
[08:45:44] <Subsentient> crutchy: Sorry, that still sounds like valid tech jargon
[08:46:01] <crutchy> yeah i'm sorry it would have come off dirtier in #
[08:46:06] <Subsentient> lol
[08:46:12] <crutchy> in amongst the rest of the filth in there
[08:46:19] <Subsentient> yeah but classic PalmOS has the UI I wish they still made.
[08:46:36] <Subsentient> I'd pay good money for a new PalmOS device.
[08:46:37] <geotti> can't you skin webOS?
[08:46:40] <Subsentient> Fuck WebOS.
[08:46:47] <Subsentient> I'm talking about classic Palm OS.
[08:46:51] <crutchy> FuckOS
[08:46:58] <crutchy> ^that would be popliar
[08:47:03] <geotti> I've never used Palm (maybe, like, once)
[08:47:09] <geotti> don't remember it
[08:47:20] <Subsentient> geotti: Go buy a Palm Tungsten on ebay and see what you missed.
[08:47:25] <geotti> there must be something that you can make work like it
[08:47:30] <Subsentient> The glory was much,.
[08:47:39] <crutchy> it comes with 5 programs that you can take advantage of for your satisfaction
[08:47:39] <Subsentient> geotti: Let me explain
[08:47:46] <Subsentient> the palm pilots had a REAL desktop-like UI
[08:47:56] <geotti> Subsentient: I have to start and finish my thesis first, before I can spend any money on toys : )
[08:48:15] <Subsentient> pull-down file-edit-view menus, standard almost-real windowing, buttons that felt like a real PC, good home screen, etc.
[08:48:23] <Subsentient> Their apps were written in C/C++.
[08:48:34] <geotti> that reminds me of newton for some reason
[08:48:35] <Subsentient> it was like a PC in your shirt pocket.
[08:48:46] <Subsentient> It felt great to use
[08:48:50] <Subsentient> it was very powerful.
[08:49:09] <Subsentient> I still have three !!! functional palm pilots and another about to be repaired.
[08:49:13] <crutchy> i like that samsung flappy phone that looks like a piece of transparency. i think it was only a concept though
[08:49:19] <ar> hm
[08:49:46] <Subsentient> crutchy /flappy phone/floppy bone/
[08:49:48] <geotti> Subsentient: I liked the Nokia communicator
[08:49:54] <Subsentient> crutchy s/flappy phone/floppy bone/
[08:49:55] <exec> <Subsentient> <crutchy> i like that samsung floppy bone that looks like a piece of transparency. i think it was only a concept though
[08:50:11] <geotti> and the N900
[08:50:50] * geotti is quite satisfied with his jailbroken iphone, though. Does everything I want it to do
[08:50:52] <Subsentient> geotti: Go buy a Palm Centro on ebay for $40 and tell me after a week that app support aside, the UI is not the best you ever used.
[08:50:56] <ar> I have a Jolla. it has a normal glibc-based linux there
[08:51:24] <geotti> Subsentient: I'll have a look at it, once I have my mind free again
[08:51:34] <Subsentient> Know what I want? A phone that is A. Not a Nexus. B. Allows me to load whatever OS, non-android or whatever, I damn well please.
[08:52:03] <Subsentient> I wanna run Fedora ARM natively
[08:52:05] <crutchy> http://www.youtube.com
[08:52:05] <monopoly> ^ 03Samsung Keynote @ CES 2013 - Youm flexible Displays OLED Display [HD] - YouTube
[08:52:07] <geotti> Subsentient: like what OS, you need driver support, etc. how do you wanna do that
[08:52:09] <geotti> oh
[08:52:10] <geotti> k
[08:52:19] <geotti> you still need driver support
[08:52:34] <Subsentient> Yeah but who cares?
[08:52:36] <geotti> there was this linux phone.... what was it's name
[08:52:42] <Subsentient> The idea is that if I can get said support
[08:52:42] <ar> geotti: Jolla?
[08:52:48] <Subsentient> I am ABLE to load linux on it.
[08:52:57] <Subsentient> Or Haiku ARM
[08:52:59] <Subsentient> or BSD
[08:53:00] <ar> it has linux on it
[08:53:03] <geotti> ar: no, like a couple of years ago, before the iphone got popular
[08:53:08] <ar> geotti: N900?
[08:53:14] <Subsentient> ar: that's not the point
[08:53:23] <geotti> ar: no, with a touchscreen
[08:53:32] <ar> geotti: N900 had a touchscreen
[08:53:35] <Subsentient> the point is that I be able to run whatever the fuck I want on it whether or not it has drivers, that the firmware not be boot-locked.
[08:53:44] <geotti> ar: just a touchscreen, I meant
[08:53:45] <Popeidol> Subsentient++
[08:53:45] <Bender> karma - subsentient: 6
[08:53:49] <crutchy> you can put linux on a galaxy s2 apparently
[08:53:51] <ar> geotti: openmoko?
[08:53:59] <crutchy> debian
[08:54:00] <geotti> ar: yeah!
[08:54:01] <ar> geotti: but that was unusable as a phone
[08:54:03] <geotti> that one
[08:54:11] <geotti> but it was a good pocket pc, i figure : )
[08:54:11] <Subsentient> crutchy: And how many exploits and/or hardware mods with a dull soldering iron are necessary for that?
[08:54:11] <crutchy> or ubuntu or something
[08:54:17] <crutchy> none
[08:54:18] <ar> geotti: a friend of mine had one. he was disappointed.
[08:54:24] <ar> geotti: no, it wasn't
[08:54:26] <crutchy> just a rom i think
[08:54:33] <NCommander> I have an Ubuntu chroot on my Nexus 5
[08:54:35] <Subsentient> crutchy: And the S3 and S4? Can they do that? No?
[08:54:37] <geotti> ar: shame. looked promising
[08:54:38] <NCommander> Been meaning to install Slash on it
[08:54:48] <NCommander> And you can install a real Linux distro on almost any Android phone
[08:54:54] <NCommander> (that can be rooted and can run a custom kernel)
[08:55:00] <crutchy> dunno. i'm not willing to fry my s4 while its under contract still
[08:55:02] <geotti> why use linux, when you can have BSD *ducks*
[08:55:08] <Subsentient> NCommander: I don't want a chroot
[08:55:13] <NCommander> geotti, ah, so you're our one OpenBSD user
[08:55:14] * NCommander ducks
[08:55:26] <Subsentient> I want to be able to nuke everything and use whatever I want.
[08:55:30] <ar> almost any android phone that can run cyanogenmod, can run normal linux thanks to libhybirs
[08:55:34] <ar> libhybris*
[08:55:35] <NCommander> Subsentient, excluding the bootloader, you can do that
[08:55:38] <Subsentient> If I want to demolish android completely and just boot Fedora ARM, can I do that?
[08:55:42] <crutchy> are there any other debian users out there?
[08:55:43] <NCommander> Subsentient, yes
[08:55:48] <xunie-laptop> Me.
[08:55:49] <Subsentient> NCommander: Prove it
[08:55:53] <Subsentient> I've looked hard and long
[08:55:58] <Subsentient> never found anything that would let me.
[08:56:02] <Subsentient> NCommander: The Nexus is hackable
[08:56:04] <Subsentient> most others are not
[08:56:08] <geotti> crutchy: some of my servers run debian
[08:56:12] <NCommander> Flash a compatible kernel to kernel: partition, with the correct command line hardcoded (or if newer device, command line in the Android Kernel Header)
[08:56:17] <crutchy> debian++
[08:56:18] <Bender> karma - debian: 9
[08:56:25] <NCommander> Format /system or /data with ext2/3/4
[08:56:30] <crutchy> i think konomi also uses debian?
[08:56:37] <NCommander> Subsentient, I've done it with my Nexus One personally
[08:56:42] <Popeidol> I mostly run debian
[08:56:45] <NCommander> (granted, Ubuntu, not Fedora)
[08:56:49] <NCommander> Hold on
[08:56:49] <Subsentient> NCommander: I told you, Nexus phones allow you to do this
[08:56:52] <Subsentient> not everything does.
[08:56:52] <Popeidol> currently debian testing on my home pc
[08:57:00] <NCommander> Subsentient, anything with fastboot oem unlock can do it
[08:57:05] <crutchy> Popeidol same here
[08:57:25] <NCommander> Quite a few non-Nexus phones support that
[08:57:26] * geotti goes to finish his presentation ttyl
[08:57:41] <crutchy> apparently jessie might go stable with xfce as default wm
[08:57:46] <Subsentient> NCommander: and I can destroy the existing OS if I please and run Fedora ARM?
[08:57:49] <crutchy> cya geotti
[08:58:07] <NCommander> Subsentient, any phone that supports fastboot oem unlock allows for reflashing of rescue, system, and userdata partitions
[08:58:13] <NCommander> (and kernel)
[08:58:32] <NCommander> Drop Fedora kernel into kernel after compiling one for your ARM device (kernels are NOT interchangable like they are on X86, limitation of the platform)
[08:58:42] <Popeidol> crutchy: sounds fair, I'm using openbox anyway these days
[08:58:43] <NCommander> Put your Fedora root filesystem in /data
[08:58:53] <ar> arm hardware support is a mess, to be honest
[08:58:55] <Popeidol> crutchy: I'm gradually turning into an angry old man who just wants to be able to use his computer
[08:59:03] <NCommander> You'll likely have to twist the environment to setup adbd so you can get into the device for easier debugging
[08:59:05] <Subsentient> Popeidol++
[08:59:05] <Bender> karma - popeidol: 3
[08:59:06] <NCommander> Not hard, but irritating
[08:59:19] <crutchy> Subsentient apparently there's an app for that: https://play.google.com
[08:59:20] <NCommander> ar, don't get me started
[08:59:22] <NCommander> That WAS my job
[08:59:28] <Subsentient> crutchy: apps don't count.
[08:59:35] <Subsentient> If it's not native it's not my goal
[08:59:41] <NCommander> Subsentient, there is Ubuntu Phone
[08:59:42] * NCommander ducks
[08:59:56] <crutchy> its an app for installing linux native
[09:00:04] <Subsentient> NCommander: And I'd be surprised if it could run anything I wanted.
[09:00:16] <NCommander> Subsentient, ok, humor me, what do you want to run?
[09:00:33] <crutchy> Complete Linux Installer is an all in one solution to installing Linux distros on your Android device. Brought to you by the LinuxonAndroid project the app is designed to allow you to install a full Linux distro without touching your Android install.
[09:00:34] <crutchy> Current distros include Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, ArchLinux, Kali Linux, openSUSE and more coming soon!
[09:01:15] <Subsentient> NCommander and crutchy: The fact that weird hacks, apps, exploits, and rooting are necessary to run a different OS is terrible and disgraceful, but I admit if these phones CAN run Fedora at all -- without hardware mods or relying on exploits that can be closed via update, it's a bit better than I believed.
[09:01:48] <Subsentient> Until I can do it as easily as jacking in an SD card and holding down a button to boot from it, it's unacceptable
[09:01:54] <NCommander> Subsentient, what weird hack? All that app does is download shit and setup the system
[09:02:08] <Subsentient> NCommander: Until I can do it as easily as jacking in an SD card and holding down a button to boot from it, it's unacceptable
[09:02:23] <crutchy> Subsentient, isn't that what linux is all about?
[09:02:33] <Popeidol> Make Your Old Phone Run Linux With This One Weird Hack
[09:02:33] <NCommander> Subsentient, excluding the fact your a nitch case, you can do that by abuse of the recovery kernel functionality
[09:02:43] <Subsentient> Again, abuse.
[09:02:44] <crutchy> if you want something out of the box you may as well go with wp
[09:03:27] <NCommander> Subsentient, yeah, and its something that 0.01% of users will ever use. I'm happy I can replace my boot stack on my phone with no excess hacking. Even the N900 wasn't that flexible
[09:03:50] <NCommander> (actually, if you didn't smoke Nokia's "special" distro, the N900 was shit with general purpose Linux distros)
[09:03:55] <Subsentient> NCommander: Very, very, very few people install a new OS on their PC, ever
[09:03:58] <crutchy> i've never really considered putting another OS on my old s2 but its an interesting idea
[09:04:08] <NCommander> I ran WebOS on my Galaxy Nexus briefly
[09:04:10] <Subsentient> You could apply the same logic to say that OS booting on PCs is unnecessary
[09:04:48] <crutchy> subsentient, how many people would ever need to program their own bootloader? :p
[09:04:53] * NCommander has done that :-P
[09:05:12] <Subsentient> NCommander: I come from a different time, where apps were run on your own CPU power and written in compiled languages, where PDFs weren't rendered in agonizingly slow Javascript engines, where I could pop in a CD and boot any OS I wanted, where hardware keyboards were not panned, when using ethernet was not an insult, and when only 5 year old girls play games like Candy Crush
[09:05:19] * crutchy couldn't program a bootloader to save himself
[09:05:41] <crutchy> subsentient, php++ :D
[09:06:02] <NCommander> Subsentient, and phones are embedded devices, and the restrictions that come with it. I'm not going to use up a large chunk of limited flash space to create something like that shipping to end users.
[09:06:17] <crutchy> i remember a time when 5 yo girls weren't allowed anywhere near computers
[09:06:18] <NCommander> The fact that the boot partition IS user-rewritable (after fastboot oem unlock) allows anyone to code it
[09:06:28] <Subsentient> NCommander: BIOSes have had the functionality for eternity.
[09:06:38] <Subsentient> Boot floppies anyone?
[09:06:47] <Subsentient> It's about restrictions in the name of control.
[09:06:57] <NCommander> Subsentient, you drastically underestimate how easy it is to access SD cards in raw assembly
[09:07:09] <NCommander> Floppy drive interfaces did most of the work in hardware
[09:07:13] <crutchy> ah the good ol days of fdisk, format c:, and xtreegold
[09:07:14] <NCommander> SD card interfaces is mostly software
[09:07:23] <NCommander> I'd fucking hate to do that in bare metal.
[09:07:30] <Subsentient> NCommander: The point is whether or not it's possible to get the phone to even EXECUTE my code, whether it's possible to get Android off the damn thing at all.
[09:07:41] <crutchy> lets program an OS, using LEGO!
[09:07:46] <Subsentient> THe only tablet I ever bought was bricked because I opened up the filesystem that contained it's kernel
[09:07:49] <crutchy> in minecraft
[09:07:51] <ar> in other news: https://git.kernel.org
[09:07:53] <NCommander> Subsentient, which tablet?
[09:08:08] <crutchy> hmm actually i think some guy made an ALU in minecraf\
[09:08:10] <Subsentient> lI just looked at it mounted read-only and was then informed by the manufacturer that the OS was required to repair the OS and that it was dead
[09:08:11] <NCommander> Subsentient, right, and that's why the level 1 bootloader is read-only on Android devices that allow reflashing
[09:08:19] <NCommander> To prevent you from perma-bricking like that
[09:08:44] <crutchy> NCommander is that the interface that you access with the big long phone number?
[09:08:45] <Subsentient> NCommander: That's still horrible. You don't see a problem with this?
[09:09:03] <Subsentient> A kernel should not be required in order to install an OS!!!
[09:09:08] <NCommander> Subsentient, no, I treat it as BIOS, because it is de-facto what it is. THe system is still in supervisor mode with caches disabled. Just start anothe rone
[09:09:36] <NCommander> Subsentient, its not. hboot is a very tiny ASM stub that loads a kernel, or allows flashing via fastboot
[09:09:49] <Subsentient> NCommander: My tablet was killed because the kernel was corrupted. Not because I poked in the bootloader.
[09:10:39] <NCommander> Subsentient, ok, when I did Android dev, I wiped my entire flash partition except hboot
[09:10:42] <crutchy> if you brick your phone you can always use it as a cake ingredient: http://www.youtube.com
[09:10:42] <monopoly> ^ 03iPhone 5S Baked In Cake - Will it Survive? - YouTube ( https://www.youtube.com )
[09:10:45] <NCommander> and was able to restore and rebuild the device
[09:10:47] <NCommander> without problems
[09:10:55] <crutchy> iCake++
[09:10:55] <Bender> karma - icake: 1
[09:11:11] <Subsentient> NCommander: That's the problem, every phone is different!
[09:11:17] <Subsentient> Some can do it and some can't!
[09:11:24] <NCommander> Subsentient, right, because the ARM space is non-standarded
[09:11:31] <NCommander> There is no universal kernel or bootloader, period
[09:11:34] <crutchy> samsungs are prolly the most likely cos of popularity
[09:11:35] <NCommander> Even on non-embedded devices
[09:11:56] <Subsentient> NCommander: It should be illegal to boot-lock any device capable of running other code.
[09:12:00] <crutchy> people turn old galaxy phones into wifi routers
[09:12:06] <NCommander> Subsentient, eveyr ARM device requires custom tailered firmware for it, without exception. Even Ubuntu and Fedora have to be ported on a device by device basis
[09:12:45] <Subsentient> NCommander: Did I ever mention I hate ARM?
[09:12:48] <Subsentient> I miss PowerPC.
[09:13:07] <NCommander> Subsentient, PowerPC wasn't an angel in this respect. PReP, CHRP, NewWorld, OldWorld, PEAR ...
[09:13:21] <Subsentient> NCommander: Yes but at least with the macs
[09:13:31] <Subsentient> you knew what to expect with a reasonably recent machine
[09:13:45] <NCommander> Subsentient, I grant you the situation was less crud
[09:14:03] <Subsentient> NCommander: I run Debian PPC on an old eMac G4 and I get a lot of use out of that thing
[09:14:10] <NCommander> Subsentient, the best we can hope for on AArch32 is FDT, but it doesn't solve the underlying problem. Most OEMs see phones as embedded, and thus not required to adhere to any standard
[09:14:43] <crutchy> amiga++
[09:14:43] <Bender> karma - amiga: 1
[09:14:56] <crutchy> amigaOS++
[09:14:56] <Bender> karma - amigaos: 1
[09:16:06] <crutchy> tizen++
[09:16:06] <Bender> karma - tizen: 1
[09:16:50] <crutchy> Subsentient, https://www.tizen.org
[09:16:51] <monopoly> ^ 03About | Tizen
[09:17:36] <NCommander> Subsentient, and I share your opinion on open devices; I've only ever owned Nexus devices since they were released (and a G1 since it was easy to turn it into a full ADP1)
[09:19:27] <ar> i owned a nexus7
[09:20:16] <crutchy> you sure it didn't own you?
[09:20:42] <crutchy> too many people seem to be owned by their telecommunication device masters
[09:20:54] <crutchy> like me in this thing :p
[09:21:18] <chromas> Soviet internet
[09:21:53] <Popeidol> sovienternet
[09:26:15] <crutchy> in soviet internet, porn whacks off to you
[09:26:36] <crutchy> s/in/tama, in
[09:26:36] <exec> <crutchy> tama, in soviet internet, porn whacks off to you
[09:26:42] <NCommander> ar, BTW, I need to bug you for a favor, I might have some items at a lost in found at the mall at Warsawwa Central :-/
[09:27:47] <ar> NCommander: and i asked you where did you stay and what did the bag look like
[09:28:08] <crutchy> check the bordellos
[09:29:10] <NCommander> ar, ack, I forgot that I aske dyou. I suspect I left them on the Costa Coffee, on the gorund floor. I'm looking for a Kingdle 3, in a bl\ack clase, and a charging cable for a PSP Vita (there was likely a USB micro cable w/ it)
[09:29:13] <crutchy> ooh
[09:29:15] <crutchy> http://www.youtube.com
[09:29:16] <monopoly> ^ 03Transparent OLED Screen for Samsung Notebooks - CES 2010 - YouTube ( https://www.youtube.com )
[09:29:21] <NCommander> ar, these items were loose, no bag
[09:30:32] <crutchy> ok, wtf: http://www.youtube.com
[09:30:33] <monopoly> ^ 03Amazing Technology Invented By MIT - Tangible Media - YouTube
[09:37:01] <crutchy> i wonder when i'll be able to get one of these for my camry: http://www.youtube.com
[09:37:01] <monopoly> ^ 03Living Machines - The Rising of the Robot - YouTube
[09:41:24] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - German Artists Say They Put White Flags on Brooklyn Bridge - http://sylnt.us - surrender-Park-Slope
[09:41:35] -!- xunie-laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[09:49:01] <Konomi> crutchy: I do use debian
[09:55:36] -!- xunie-laptop [xunie-laptop!~xunie@2001:981:9b5e:n:gylr:tlqv:qilg:hnmo] has joined #Soylent
[10:07:14] -!- WizardFusion [WizardFusion!~d9734111@vpwzj3-hka.my-it-solutions.net] has joined #Soylent
[10:07:51] <WizardFusion> Hey all, is it just me, I can't find the RSS feed for the site.
[10:08:39] <chromas> http://soylentnews.org
[10:08:40] <monopoly> ^ 03SoylentNews
[10:09:15] <WizardFusion> thanks
[10:09:37] <WizardFusion> not sure why it's not advertised
[10:10:07] <chromas> It's buried in the cruft at the bottom of the page. :)
[10:10:38] <WizardFusion> ah, that will be why I can't see it - I have adblock turn that stuff off :)
[10:12:46] <Subsentient> <tired_meme>
[10:12:55] <Subsentient> The story of Nyan Cat: http://i0.kym-cdn.com
[10:12:58] <Subsentient> </tired_meme>
[10:14:48] <chromas> Stretch that meme out like looongcat
[10:16:02] -!- Subsentient has quit [Quit: Derp.]
[10:20:04] -!- JamesNZ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[10:23:06] <crutchy> doesn't seem to be an atom icon
[10:23:21] <crutchy> for http://soylentnews.org
[10:23:21] <monopoly> ^ 03SoylentNews
[10:24:04] <chromas> grease--
[10:24:04] <Bender> karma - grease: -1
[10:25:17] -!- WizardFusion has quit [Quit: "so long and thanks for all the fish"]
[10:28:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[10:28:50] <Bender> karma - coffee: 567
[10:29:00] <crutchy> ~time TheMightyBuzzard
[10:29:06] <exec> Wednesday, 13 August 2014 @ 5:29 am CDT - Ada, OK, USA
[10:29:19] <crutchy> mornin TMB
[10:29:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> that it is
[10:29:39] <crutchy> i gotta get up at 4.30 tomorrow morning
[10:29:45] <crutchy> :-(
[10:30:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, had to do that yesterday. my sympathies.
[10:30:22] <crutchy> should be a fun day hopefully. earthquake design course
[10:30:37] <crutchy> not sure how much you can learn about earthquake design in a single day though :/
[10:31:04] <crutchy> hopefully they stick to the code and avoid the bullshit
[10:31:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> majoring in evil overlord?
[10:31:28] <chromas> They can lay the foundation. Might be a bit shaky
[10:31:33] <crutchy> lol
[10:31:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> wah wah wah
[10:32:33] <crutchy> hopefully they don't "sway" to far from the cetral core :p
[10:32:58] <crutchy> fk my typing not very good tonight
[10:33:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> try not to get too broken up if they do
[10:33:13] <chromas> TheMightyBuzzard: do you have a trombone key?
[10:33:28] <crutchy> *drumroll*
[10:33:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, would only end up using it on you and nc
[10:33:50] <chromas> ooh
[10:33:56] <chromas> context-sensitive hotkeys
[10:34:04] <crutchy> i played trombone for a few years when i was in skool
[10:34:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> nobody else appreciates the fine art of punnage
[10:34:09] <crutchy> i hated it
[10:34:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod. i played electric guitar. badly.
[10:34:42] <chromas> When someone made a mistake, did you wah wah wah at them?
[10:34:57] <crutchy> and there it goees
[10:34:59] <crutchy> :p
[10:35:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, wasn't that good
[10:35:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> finally learned to play one song well, decided it was something i could do if i wanted, and declared that to be enough
[10:36:06] * chromas didn't have the discipline to guitar
[10:36:10] <crutchy> it wasn't smoke on the water i hope
[10:36:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> sound of silence by simon n garfunkle
[10:36:33] <crutchy> noice
[10:36:59] <crutchy> that's a sound i haven't heard in a while
[10:37:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> sat in the park one night n wouldn't leave until i played it through correctly
[10:37:41] <crutchy> its one of those songs that's real enough that you could make the odd mistake and it wouldn't sound bad
[10:37:42] <chromas> Are you sitll there?
[10:37:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya
[10:38:03] <chromas> in the park
[10:38:06] <crutchy> rocking out with his cock out
[10:38:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, nah. learned it in that one night.
[10:39:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> gave my guitar to my little brother the next day. he plays the beastie like he was born with one in his hand.
[10:39:51] <chromas> bs2000++
[10:39:51] <Bender> karma - bs2000: 1
[10:39:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> also the mandolin, bass, violin, and ukulele
[10:39:54] <crutchy> i like watching fracionado on youtube
[10:40:10] * chromas just learned the singer in Technotronic was a girl
[10:43:25] <chromas> s/sing/rapp/
[10:43:25] <exec> <chromas> just learned the rapper in Technotronic was a girl
[10:43:34] <chromas> rappist
[10:44:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> random bit of awesome: https://www.youtube.com
[10:44:11] <monopoly> ^ 03Popeye Punk Theme - High Quality - YouTube
[10:49:09] <chromas> Got some spinach in them fingers
[10:51:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> wonder what ever became of that feller
[10:56:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> apparently nothing where fame was involved
[10:57:53] <chromas> Probably finally figured out canned spinach is gross
[10:58:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> must've
[11:02:06] <crutchy> no doubt i've said it before, but i like this one: https://www.youtube.com
[11:02:06] <monopoly> ^ 03i SQUARE - Hey Sexy Lady (Skrillex remix) Guitar Cover - YouTube
[11:02:42] <crutchy> its like a sleeper guitar cover
[11:02:51] <crutchy> starts slow and easy... then goes nuts
[11:06:23] <crutchy> anyone who can follow skrillex with a guitar has my respect
[11:09:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup
[11:11:17] * TheMightyBuzzard gets his pacman -Syu on
[11:15:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> Assertion: The Naked Dance can never again be done with as much unselfconscious abandon after you reach ten years old. Discuss
[11:19:32] <chromas> Insert alcohol—dance like ten
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[11:21:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> reboot. back shortly.
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[11:51:02] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - iPad vs. Chromebook at School - No Contest - http://sylnt.us - right-tool-for-the-job
[12:16:50] <crutchy> what the hell did i just watch?
[12:17:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> not a clue
[12:17:40] <crutchy> http://www.youtube.com
[12:17:41] <monopoly> ^ 03Annoying Orange - ORANGE NYA NYA STYLE (GANGNAM STYLE Spoof) - YouTube
[12:19:54] <crutchy> must be time for sleep
[12:20:08] <crutchy> if i'm watching crap like that
[12:20:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm thinking you gotta be stoned to appreciate that
[12:20:41] <ar> hm
[12:21:03] <ar> http://dpaste.com http://dpaste.com - which one do you like more, and why?
[12:21:03] <monopoly> ^ 03dpaste: 3HCENYV ( Location )
[12:25:18] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard, yeah. i'm treating it like an alarm clock in reverse
[12:25:36] <crutchy> cyas tomoz
[12:26:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> adios
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[13:30:17] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - A One-Man Intelligence Agency - http://sylnt.us - better-living-through-journalism
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[13:31:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[13:31:41] <Bender> karma - coffee: 568
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[13:32:51] <ar> coffee--
[13:32:51] <Bender> karma - coffee: 567
[13:34:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> tis a strange and irrational phobia you have for coffee
[13:36:08] <ar> tis a strange and irrational love you have for coffee
[13:38:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> well yeah. enjoyment of a flavor is by definition irrational.
[13:38:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> all emotional responses are.
[13:40:50] <TK> coffee++
[13:40:50] <Bender> karma - coffee: 568
[13:41:33] <TK> I don't think my brain releasing pleasurable chemicals when I ingest food that benefit my body chemistry is irrational
[13:41:52] <TK> *foods
[13:47:28] <Blackmoore> coffee++
[13:47:28] <Bender> karma - coffee: 569
[13:47:34] <Blackmoore> mornin
[13:47:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin
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[13:55:26] <paulej72> moring Blackmoore
[13:56:41] <Blackmoore> tis a new day, and the cubicle stares back - it's mass of paperwork, flotsam and electronics. as if to say. "you should have stayed in bed."
[13:58:15] <paulej72> I see the same
[14:01:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> i see a messy livingroom. which i am not going to clean today.
[14:01:36] <Blackmoore> going afk for a while (we training)
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[14:02:28] <prospectacle> hi all
[14:02:28] <ciri> hey whats up prospectacle
[14:02:51] <prospectacle> hi ciri, you've learned to speak english!
[14:02:51] <ciri> hi there prospectacle
[14:02:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> sup
[14:03:38] <prospectacle> I just bought louis ck's latest show, and it occurs to me there's a connection between his business model and that of crowdfunding sites.
[14:04:07] <prospectacle> He sells non-drm shows for only $5 and says "Look you could torrent this, but I want to keep selling more stuff in the future" and so you're kind of paying for his next show, if you know what I mean.
[14:04:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod. connect with fans, reason to buy.
[14:05:48] * TheMightyBuzzard ponders the coffee++ mug
[14:06:11] <paulej72> what is there to ponder. Fill it already
[14:06:13] <prospectacle> Psychologically it's similar to crowdfunding anyway. It also makes it really obvious how full of crap and obsolete the "big content" business model is
[14:06:22] <prospectacle> Oh is the store up?
[14:06:33] <prospectacle> I go away for five minutes
[14:06:55] <paulej72> soft opening to staff only so far
[14:07:06] <prospectacle> fair enough
[14:07:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> well mostly that it's an 11 or 15 oz mug and my current one holds 20
[14:07:39] <paulej72> TheMightyBuzzard: forgot that they dropped the larger mug. need to ask juggs about that
[14:08:16] <paulej72> my travel mug that I use is 20oz as well. smaller cup a small
[14:08:17] <prospectacle> If you want to widen your test load let me know I've got money waiting in my paypal account for this very purpose. Also the subscription
[14:08:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> travel mug would have worked too
[14:08:56] <paulej72> subscription should be coming this weekend
[14:09:31] <prospectacle> great
[14:11:34] <prospectacle> "This is the nicest place for many miles in every direction. That's how you compliment a building and shit on a town with one sentence" - louis ck
[14:12:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> like his funding model but never been a fan
[14:16:07] <prospectacle> Yeah I know a lot of people who don't like him. He's a pretty specific type of jokes i guess.
[14:17:23] <prospectacle> I liked the speech he gave honouring george carlin. Worth checking out even if you don't like his comedy as it's a good lesson in psychology and creativity and reinvention
[14:18:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://www.facebook.com
[14:18:44] <monopoly> ^ 03Andrew Harrison | Facebook
[14:18:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> now THAT are some funny
[14:20:45] <prospectacle> Poor America, you invented the internet you deserve some good options to access it
[14:20:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> truth
[14:21:41] * TheMightyBuzzard has to use TCP/CPP (carrier pigeon protocol)
[14:21:51] <prospectacle> lol
[14:21:53] <ciri> heh
[14:23:26] <prospectacle> We almost had good internet in aus. but then someone, not mentioning any names, voted in a government that promised to cancel the rollout of the fibre-to-the-home network
[14:23:47] <prospectacle> so some people at work have it, and it's the best, but now I'll probably never get it in this suburb.
[14:25:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> sigh
[14:25:32] <paulej72> it still wll cost too much
[14:26:53] <prospectacle> paulej72 actually it costs the same (same isps and account options as the copper), it's just faster.
[14:27:56] <prospectacle> or do you mean capital costs?
[14:28:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> mark where they want the cable laid and i'll bloody do it myself.
[14:29:11] <prospectacle> deal
[14:30:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> have fiber to the local box but copper from it to my house.
[14:30:19] <prospectacle> TMB yeah that's the new plan here
[14:30:21] <prospectacle> How is it?
[14:30:21] <ciri> doing good, and you?
[14:30:49] <prospectacle> what's that ciri?
[14:33:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's fscking copper. no faster than copper ever was.
[14:35:44] <prospectacle> yeah seems a waste of good fiber. All I hope is that people without the f.t.t.h. access become so jealous that it sways the next election to whoever promises to continue the rollout
[14:37:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> i would seriously go out in oklahoma august weather and lay fiber to the box my damned self. no cost to them except connecting it, which i'd be happy to pay for.
[14:37:45] <prospectacle> I reckon. Who is in charge of that decision? Some stupid cable company or some stupid local government?
[14:38:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> AT&T
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[14:40:06] <prospectacle> I've noticed on a certain tv-watching website that the verizon ads are slower than all other ads (they pause more, etc). I think they must detect I'm not using verizon and adjust the stream speed accordingly.
[14:40:18] <prospectacle> But I'm onto them
[14:40:43] <prospectacle> They want you to think "Guess my internet is crap, I'd better get verizon"
[14:41:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> heh
[14:41:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Robin Williams Stirs BitTorrent Traffic - http://sylnt.us - what-he-would-have-wanted
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[14:50:53] <Blackmoore> ah training.
[14:51:08] <prospectacle> welcome blackmoore, what are you training?
[14:53:39] <Blackmoore> teaching some new employees to do some of my job.
[14:54:24] <Blackmoore> mostly "here are the damn tools" and here is how you use the damn thing.
[14:54:37] <Blackmoore> .. and then watch it fail during training.
[15:12:17] <prospectacle> Good times
[15:13:55] <prospectacle> Hardware or software?
[15:14:37] <prospectacle> I remember watching the demo for an early microsoft surface tablet or whatever it's called, and the guy did one or two things then the third one failed. He tried multiple times and had to go and swap it
[15:15:12] <prospectacle> I love when that happens to microsoft, as they still dominate people's computers for all the wrong reasons.
[15:17:02] <Blackmoore> software. looks like a failure on the recieving side
[15:17:20] <Blackmoore> Eh, i'll give it an hour and try again/
[15:17:32] <prospectacle> well tools failing is part of the job, so you're teaching them well
[15:19:30] <Blackmoore> yep.
[15:20:28] <Blackmoore> and the big thing is to not get upset. 9 times out of 10 it works.
[15:24:39] <prospectacle> I almost had a car crash today. Someone pulled out of a T then saw me coming and stopped, in the middle of my lane. I put the brakes on too hard and started skidding, in slow motion it seems right towards the driver side of his car.
[15:25:08] <prospectacle> I would have hit it but I took my foot off the break for a second and put it back on, thus regaining traction, and stopping a few centimetres from his car.
[15:25:30] <prospectacle> When i got home I checked to see how bad my tyres were, but they didn't even look bald.
[15:25:32] <prospectacle> It was a fun night
[15:26:56] <prospectacle> So if you don't have ABS, you can make your own
[15:30:28] <Blackmoore> true that;
[15:30:54] <Blackmoore> I have a manuver i use on icy roads when the car wont break.
[15:31:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> pumping the breaks was what ABS was meant to replace because some people panic and forget.
[15:31:13] <Blackmoore> it involves gettign the car into reverse
[15:31:45] <Blackmoore> but good ABS is a great thing to have
[15:32:25] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard. Makes sense.
[15:33:36] <prospectacle> Blackmoore, how does that work? when it's raining i try to use the brakes as little as possible, insteda slowing down with the gear. Probably bad for my clutch but works a treat
[15:37:39] <prospectacle> Does reverse stop the car going forward but avoids skidding?
[15:37:43] <prospectacle> I've never tried it
[15:39:17] <prospectacle> well gotta go. Have a good one all
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[15:58:15] <Blackmoore> drat - missed him
[15:59:47] <Blackmoore> I only do a reverse shift when the car is sliding on ice. i have to break, shift to N, break, (wheels stop, but still in skid) and then shift to R and tap the gas.
[16:00:12] <Blackmoore> yeah extreme weather manuvers
[16:01:14] <Blackmoore> hey TheMightyBuzzard - are you in a rural area?
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[17:30:19] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Ohio Strippers Take Topless Protest to Church That Harassed Them for 9 Years - http://sylnt.us - turnabout-is-fair-play
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[18:22:53] <Blackmoore> mm. strippers
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[18:50:08] <ancientt> I know I just joined, but I'm seeing Error 503 ... Varnish cache server errors when I attempt to login and it's a very recent problem, maybe a topic change to acknowledge it if it is already beign addressed?
[18:51:43] <Blackmoore> first I've heard on this. are you in the default html or one of the alternates like Chillax
[18:52:39] <ancientt> Blackmoore: default
[18:52:59] <rand> Blackmoore:I just got the same thing -- chillax
[18:53:12] <ancientt> and it just loaded w/out errors for me (though I did hit dev.soylent.org so I don't know for sure that didn't have something to do with it)
[18:53:53] <ancientt> fresh private mode window, login worked (default theme)
[18:57:51] <ancientt> now I've got mod points after logging in. Again, probably unrelated but if I'm wrong I'd feel bad for leaving out the detail
[19:05:15] <Blackmoore> I dont see the Devs on right now but they were pushing stuff around on dev severs. I wonder if the system wanted to give you mod points and glitched.
[19:06:17] <Blackmoore> I'm in chillax myself and it seems ok. but varnish has had a couple of issues lately.
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[19:06:36] <Blackmoore> rand: is is working for you now?
[19:08:06] <rand> No, have just restarted FF and it still 503's
[19:09:01] <Blackmoore> mrcoolbp: you around sir?
[19:10:00] <Blackmoore> paulej72: You online?
[19:10:35] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - How Gary Gygax Lost Control of Dungeons &amp; Dragons - http://sylnt.us - watch-your-back
[19:12:46] <Blackmoore> ok, we have mechanicjay looking into this
[19:13:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> hmm?
[19:14:12] <Blackmoore> oh TheMightyBuzzard we have a cople of 503 reports
[19:14:52] * TheMightyBuzzard shakes his head
[19:14:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> bloody varnish
[19:16:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> have to get that to one of the sysop types. devs don't get to monkey with production systems or even much outside the webserver area of dev
[19:17:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander or paulej72 would likely be your huckleberry
[19:17:36] <mechanicjay> TheMightyBuzzard: I'm looking at it
[19:17:45] <NCommander> ?
[19:17:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> you da man
[19:17:59] <mechanicjay> NCommander: some folks are reporting varnish errors.
[19:18:12] <mechanicjay> I can't seem reproduce -- everything looks good to me
[19:18:27] <NCommander> seems working here
[19:19:03] <mechanicjay> Is anyone getting consistant 503's? If so please send me the urls where it's happening
[19:20:02] <rand> https://soylentnews.org ... and I''m on chillax
[19:20:03] <monopoly> ^ 03Log In
[19:20:27] <mechanicjay> rand: thankyou
[19:21:39] <mechanicjay> ptsh, it's https logins that are broken -- that's useful
[19:22:44] <NCommander> great
[19:23:59] <mythterj> I'm getting 503s as well, both http and https for the login page.
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[19:35:30] <Blackmoore> Freesword is reporting the same 503.
[19:36:03] <Blackmoore> on login page.
[19:37:02] <mechanicjay> ptsh
[19:37:17] <mechanicjay> I'm coming up empty on this
[19:40:03] * mechanicjay is not impressed
[19:45:48] <rand> Suddenly, I'm logged in.
[19:45:53] <mechanicjay> okay, got it
[19:46:03] <mythterj> Yup, me too.
[19:51:39] <mechanicjay> For those interested...
[19:55:47] <mechanicjay> apache crashed on one of the front ends, but varnish was running, so the load balancer was happily sending you to a node which would return errors. This was only intermittent, because Vanish was still happily serving cache resources.
[19:56:10] <mechanicjay> We have > 95% hit rate on the cache, which is why it wasn't noticed sooner.
[19:56:44] <mechanicjay> Thanks to all who reported
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[20:01:54] <ancientt> nice response, thanks.
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[20:23:30] <Blackmoore> thank you mechanicjay
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[23:25:21] <SoyCow6459> question
[23:25:42] <SoyCow6459> I posted a scoop, but apparently the URL was missed
[23:26:13] <SoyCow6459> How can I provide that without making a whole new submission?
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