#Soylent | Logs for 2014-07-05
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[00:07:57] <SirFinkus> windows phone is actually pretty nice
[00:59:50] -!- TheMightyBuzzard [TheMightyBuzzard!~bob@628-747-682-781.lightspeed.okcbok.sbcglobal.net] has joined #Soylent
[01:04:14] * TheMightyBuzzard heads off to dinner
[01:11:37] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Goldman Sachs: Google Blocked Access to Email Sent by Mistake - http://sylnt.us - too-big-to-suffer-the-consequences
[01:12:26] <chromas> Bender: s/ces/ces,-which-will-never-be-the-same/
[01:12:26] <SedBot> <chromas> <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Goldman Sachs: Google Blocked Acces,-which-will-never-be-the-sames to Email Sent by Mistake - http://sylnt.us - too-big-to-suffer-the-consequences
[01:12:50] <chromas> herp
[01:25:41] -!- pbnjoe [pbnjoe!~pbnjoe@Soylent/Users/313/pbnjoe] has joined #Soylent
[01:27:30] <NCommander> http://soylentnews.org
[01:27:31] <monopoly> ↳ 04SN farticle 03 Our Independence Day: We're Officially Incorporated! 04(0 comments): As a general rule, I don't post site news on weekends or holidays, but I'm making an exception due to the unique circumstances. I'm pleased to announce that as of...
[01:27:35] <NCommander> Happy Independence Day
[01:30:51] <pbnjoe> Woohoo!
[01:31:10] <pbnjoe> When can I toss money at you so that I can see my old comments again? :p
[01:31:52] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Our Independence Day: We're Officially Incorporated! - http://sylnt.us - about-fricking-time
[01:32:28] <crutchy> it's ironic that the US is much more highly taxed and regulated now than the founding fathers could ever have imagined possible in 1776
[01:32:55] <crutchy> sorry, i mean YAY!!!
[01:33:31] <pbnjoe> I'm celebrating the people of SNs independance :p
[01:33:42] <pbnjoe> s/dance/dence
[01:33:42] * SedBot offers pbnjue a /
[01:33:46] <pbnjoe> s/dance/dence/
[01:33:47] <SedBot> <pbnjie> I'm celebrating the people of SNs independence :p
[01:33:52] <crutchy> that is a worthy celebration :-)
[01:35:02] <pbnjoe> :)
[01:35:08] <crutchy> the People's Republic of Soylentia
[01:36:10] <pbnjoe> it's funny, the only time I really see things called people's republics is when they're (at least near) dictatorships
[01:36:41] <pbnjoe> or have something quite wrong at least
[01:36:44] <pbnjoe> I mean WOOO
[01:36:46] <crutchy> the US is a republic
[01:36:55] <pbnjoe> people don't call it the People's Republic of America
[01:37:19] <crutchy> most people nowadays in the 'west' have forgotten what a republic even is
[01:37:31] <crutchy> they think we're all 'democracies'
[01:37:50] <crutchy> ~define democracy
[01:37:54] <exec> [wolframalpha] 3democracy: 1 | noun | the political orientation of those who favor government by the people or by their elected representatives\n2 | noun | a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizen...
[01:38:10] <crutchy> ~define republic
[01:38:13] <exec> [wolframalpha] 3republic: 1 | noun | a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them\n2 | noun | a form of government whose head of state is not a monarch
[01:38:55] <crutchy> republic probably went out of favor in the US when other countries started using it
[01:39:44] <pbnjoe> heheh
[01:40:13] <NCommander> crutchy, *groan*
[01:40:26] * NCommander fiddles more w/ a NNTP gateway
[01:40:57] * crutchy is the party pooper (in best arnold schwarzenegger voice)
[01:42:38] <crutchy> australia never really had independence... we just surreptitiously changed from one master (GB) to another (US)
[01:43:33] <pbnjoe> with a reptilian puppet at the helm of the fed gov :p
[01:43:51] <crutchy> you mean budgie smuggler?
[01:44:04] <crutchy> nah he's a harmless doofus
[01:44:38] <crutchy> at least he's not sending us broke as quick as the previous
[01:44:46] <pbnjoe> it is him that's called repitilian? took somewhat of a shot in the dark
[01:44:48] <pbnjoe> :p
[01:44:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> dunno bout the rest but i'm celebrating my ability to blow shit up
[01:45:13] <crutchy> what's that in tmb?
[01:45:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> what's what in?
[01:45:35] * crutchy has very limited selection of 'blow shit up' games
[01:45:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, actually blowing things up
[01:45:49] <crutchy> lol
[01:45:56] <crutchy> you in texas?
[01:46:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> 4th of kaboom
[01:46:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, oklahoma
[01:46:11] <crutchy> ah
[01:46:28] <crutchy> wouldn't have thought you'd be allowed to scratch your ass there without fed permission
[01:46:57] <crutchy> i guess 4th is an exception
[01:47:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> fuck em. they want my liberty they can take it at gunpoint like proper tyrants.
[01:47:31] <crutchy> you sound like a texan :-P
[01:48:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> no real difference except texans are entirely too proud of being texan.
[01:48:11] <crutchy> the only state left that the feds are really scared of
[01:48:18] <crutchy> ah
[01:49:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod. there's a small but growing minority of people fed up with the feds.
[01:50:35] <crutchy> from 'the internet' it seems like a magnet for people keen on a new revolution
[01:50:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> bout two in ten are gonna be pissed off no matter which party is in office, which is not to say they all agree on a platform cept gtfo of our lives.
[01:50:53] <crutchy> lol true
[01:51:20] <crutchy> seems like a lot of folks are pissed off with both the majors... aka the 'republocrats'
[01:51:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, it's just a place like any other but with a double history of successful revolution
[01:51:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> i wish. 20% does not a kick the bums out party make
[01:52:33] <pbnjoe> I don't see one being created until something they do seriously messes up the majority of people's lives
[01:52:43] <pbnjoe> and by that I mean like the gov shutting off popular television or something
[01:52:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> think we should import Tim Moen from canada. i dig the guy's style.
[01:52:51] <crutchy> seems like the tea party for all the bad press it gets is still doing ok though, so i guess that's good for kicking out the old vested interest crooks
[01:53:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, they're off to a fair start. not spectacular yet though.
[01:53:37] <crutchy> true. they are fighting powerful enemies though
[01:53:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod
[01:53:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> tossed a few out on their ears but only a few
[01:55:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> "I want gay married couples to be able to defend their pot farms with guns." -- Tim Moen
[01:55:28] <crutchy> lol
[01:55:37] <crutchy> sounds fair enough to me
[01:55:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> guy's awesome. too bad he's canadian.
[01:56:01] <crutchy> that's the principle that the USA was founded on
[01:56:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> zactly
[01:56:13] <NCommander> hey TheMightyBuzzard
[01:56:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> yo
[01:56:30] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, what did I blow up on dev? :-/
[01:56:57] <crutchy> was there baysplosions on dev?
[01:57:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> dunno, some sort of reversion. likely in MySQL.pm. least i think that's where i fixed that particular bug.
[01:57:25] <crutchy> it was taco's fault
[01:58:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> i think i'm set on dev though until it's time to test it with utf8 turned off, which will be a while.
[01:58:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> so if you want to rebase vs TheMightyBuzzard/unicode-work, this next week or so would be an excellent time.
[02:00:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> any minor issues i'll fix on my vm and they can wait for a much later pull to get tested.
[02:01:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> matter of fact i think i'll start a new branch just so that one stays available and i can still back up off-site
[02:02:24] -!- pbnjoe has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[02:02:49] -!- pbnjoe [pbnjoe!~pbnjoe@Soylent/Users/313/pbnjoe] has joined #Soylent
[02:03:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, specific answer: something that was causing unicode comments to display like they were encoded wrong if and only if you replied to them. was a bug from earlier this week.
[02:06:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> it had to do with memcache not reading utf8 worth a damn in certain situations, so i cpan'd in cache::memcached::fast and used it instead for everything but memcached stats.
[02:08:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, this commit and the next two were the ones dealing with memcached: https://github.com
[02:08:56] <monopoly> ↳ 03Move to Cache::Memcached::Fast rather than Cache::Memcached · 2fbafaa · TheMightyBuzzard/slashcode · GitHub: The slashcode repository for SoylentNews. The initial code base was uploaded as it appeared on Sourceforge as of the last commit in September 2009
[02:22:42] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, we probably should be using a memcache replacement IMHO like Cassandra :-/
[02:23:31] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, ugh, I just got indigestion, I had to write a bit of code that turns an array into a hash tree because Perl fucking sucks and I can't find a cleaner way to do unless I run the same query multiple times
[02:24:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> likely should be but that's a problem for another day. just the unicode merge is going to be insanely huge.
[02:24:09] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, worth it though
[02:24:34] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I don't think we'll ever fully disable UTF-8 on the site, I think we can live without extensively testing utf8=off, and it fixes bugs in other places
[02:24:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... there's probably a quick way to do that but damned if i can think of it offhand
[02:24:52] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, there are a few memcache replacements which are drop in
[02:25:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh?
[02:25:08] <NCommander> yeah
[02:25:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... there isn't really a lot of perl code dealing with memcache, so it shouldn't be too big a problem
[02:26:15] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, http://pastebin.com - bah, writing this gave me gas, but I didn't know a way to get a hashref built out of an array any other way, and Slash's DB layer gives me gas
[02:26:16] <monopoly> ↳ 03 # We need a hash of comment ids; to avoid abusing the DB, we're - Pastebin.com
[02:26:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> even if it requires a completely new bit o code
[02:26:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> you n me both. it's way too abstracted
[02:27:02] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, we need to write a programmers guide to the database, its the least fun code in here
[02:27:21] <NCommander> It catches a ton of shit like SQL injection and such, so I don't want to remove it, as well as leaving the door open to porting to postgres
[02:27:43] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, from that codesnippit, am I on crack?
[02:27:47] * NCommander depises Perl's syntax
[02:28:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, sec, second look
[02:28:48] <crutchy> would you need to add a check to maake sure the hash is unique?
[02:29:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, does it work?
[02:29:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> doesn't look like it would
[02:30:35] <crutchy> looks like the result of the hashing function is put into an array of sorts but i'm not a perl guy so it could be backwards (the array going into the function?)
[02:32:08] <crutchy> oh kinda looks like $comment_has is an array too
[02:32:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> @comment{ line should give you a warning or error about using an unscoped variable because it's not the same as %comment.
[02:32:20] -!- Drop [Drop!~Drop___@via1-vhat2-0-3-jppz214.perr.cable.virginm.net] has parted #Soylent
[02:33:38] <crutchy> fuck yeah now i remember why i gave up trying to learn perl
[02:33:38] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, haven't fully tested but perl doesn't through an error
[02:33:49] <NCommander> {cid} is always unique (its the comment ID in the database)
[02:34:01] <NCommander> And is defined as my %comment_hash;
[02:34:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> should. %comment, $comment, and @comment all separate memory addresses.
[02:34:16] <NCommander> Ah, frack, *edits*
[02:34:46] <NCommander> Should be: $comment_hash{$comment{cid}} = {
[02:35:45] <crutchy> looks like php equiv of a foreach, but fuck me that's some confusement syntax
[02:36:17] <NCommander> Perl fucking sucks
[02:36:19] <NCommander> Just saying
[02:36:30] <NCommander> I don't get diehard perl fans who think its the greatest language ever
[02:36:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> just do something like $comment_hash{$_[1}} = {nickname => $_[0], date => $_[2], etc...}
[02:37:06] <crutchy> which bit actually does the hashing? is it qw? apart from the my( %comment) bit, which looks like assignment of the foreach variable, qw looks like the only fucntion call in there ¿
[02:37:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> that may not be entirely correct though
[02:37:30] <NCommander> qw turns its argumenting into array elements, kinda
[02:37:31] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: lol that looks even more confusement :-P
[02:37:33] <NCommander> Its confusing as fuck
[02:37:39] <NCommander> (it stands for quote word)
[02:37:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> may be $_->[0/1/2/etc...]
[02:38:38] <crutchy> chromas found a gem
[02:38:42] <crutchy> ~define perl
[02:38:47] <exec> [urbandictionary] 3perl: pur'-el (n) 1. Computer programming language used mostly by male virgins, between the ages of 17 and 35, who are also well versed in the Lord Of The Rings stories.
[02:40:12] <NCommander> Sounds about right
[02:41:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> no need to get too fancy, just map them directly. if all else fails my @comment = @$_ will get you a non-ref array with $_'s contents that's easier to see how to access.
[02:44:23] <crutchy> you perl guys definitely seem like the die hard coders of the community. perl has a kind of geek cred that no other modern language could attain (asm and maybe c take the top spots)
[02:44:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> then it absolutely would be $comment[0/1/2/etc...] to access the comment array.
[02:45:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, nod nod. it's a language with ugly hacks built in and sometimes required of you.
[02:47:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> this however isn't really one of them. it's pretty straight-forward. have an array, need a hash, use a for loop and add an entry per loop.
[02:47:48] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, lets rewrite Slash in VAX ASM :-)
[02:48:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> i almost bought a working vax about 10 years ago
[02:49:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> figured i could use the couple hundred bucks more than the cred though
[02:52:48] -!- Bytram|away [Bytram|away!~pc@Soylent/Staff/Developer/martyb] has joined #Soylent
[02:52:48] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Bytram|away] by juggler
[02:54:01] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[02:55:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, get it beat into shape?
[02:55:57] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, kinda :-/
[03:01:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, something like this is what i meant: http://pastebin.com
[03:01:14] <monopoly> ^ 03[Perl] sup yo - Pastebin.com
[03:01:46] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, in terms of readibility, that sucks :-P
[03:01:48] <NCommander> I hate magic numbers
[03:02:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> least verbose and most direct way i know to do it.
[03:02:12] * Bytram liked the magic eight ball, though
[03:02:38] <Bytram> NCommander: TheMightyBuzzard hi! what's up?
[03:02:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, not a lot
[03:03:06] <Bytram> got ur e-mil and just replied; thanks!
[03:03:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod
[03:03:32] <Bytram> was starting to wonder what in the world I'd done wrong in my UTF-8 encoder!
[03:03:38] <NCommander> Bytram, fiddling more w/ NNTP feeds
[03:03:41] * NCommander is enjoying the day off
[03:03:50] <Bytram> NCommander: nod nod; good for you!
[03:03:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, you broke dev!!!!1eleven!
[03:04:16] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: LOL! Dat's what QA do, right?
[03:04:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, break code that works perfectly good until you add users
[03:05:07] <Bytram> btw, in the future, if you could, pls use my nick @ soylentnews.org email, addy?
[03:05:14] <Bytram> nick = martyb
[03:05:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> sure. i just hit reply.
[03:05:36] <Bytram> users, they cause so many problems; our lives would be SO much easier w/o them!
[03:05:56] <Bytram> oops; thought for sure I sent it from my sn addy. my apologies!
[03:06:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> truth. they're the cause of 90% of the ugly hacks in slash.
[03:06:54] <Bytram> NCommander: the letters of incorporation have already been accepted and signed off? I thought it'd be another 5 days or so, at least!
[03:07:40] <Bytram> Well, when we roll out UTF-8, it is my hope that I'll have found *most* of the gotchas so the hackage to deal with real-time issues will be kept to a minimum!
[03:09:27] <NCommander> Bytram, we got receipt of approval today
[03:09:35] <Bytram> !woop
[03:09:35] <Bender> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[03:09:38] <Bytram> !uid
[03:09:39] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 4512, owned by PizzaRollPlinkett
[03:10:00] <Bytram> hmmm, is there a way to find the current, largest, comment number?
[03:10:13] <Bytram> from what I can tell, we're fast approaching 2**16
[03:10:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, make a comment. it will be the largest comment number.
[03:11:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> until it isn't
[03:12:26] <Bytram> In that case, on 2014-07-04 @ 20:40 EDT it was 64368
[03:13:11] <crutchy> timtams++
[03:13:11] <Bender> karma - timtams: 3
[03:13:48] <chromas> pizzarolls++
[03:13:48] <Bender> karma - pizzarolls: 1
[03:14:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> i wonder where the legal line is between fireworks and explosives
[03:14:21] <Bytram> hmmm, so is it *necessary* to have an sid to locate a story if I have the cid?
[03:14:22] <chromas> TheMightyBuzzard: it's when you get caught
[03:14:32] <Bytram> how far above ground they go off?
[03:14:53] <chromas> Celebrate the birth of your country (and pbc) by blowing up a small part of it
[03:15:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> firecracker isn't explosives. shotgun shell isn't explosives. sack of black powder for reloading isn't explosives but probably would be if you put a fuze in it.
[03:16:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> s/fuze/fuse/
[03:16:02] <SedBot> <TheMightyBuzzard> firecracker isn't explosives. shotgun shell isn't explosives. sack of black powder for reloading isn't explosives but probably would be if you put a fuse in it.
[03:16:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> damn sure is if you put it in a water pipe, cap the ends, and put a fuse in it.
[03:16:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> same black powder though.
[03:16:52] <Bytram> I can attest that the little pencil-diameter-sized firecrackers can, when set off, cause an explosion that sets the sand around it flying; an M-80 even more so.
[03:17:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> they do much the same for GI-Joe guys and hotwheels too
[03:18:01] * Bytram once saw an M80 send a large tin can about 50 feet (15+ meters) into the air
[03:18:24] * NCommander notes someone should put us on DMOZ
[03:18:39] <Bytram> what's that?
[03:18:45] <Bytram> brb food
[03:18:45] <crutchy> ~define dmoz
[03:18:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, should see what a quart jar of det cord will do when you throw it in a pond and fire it off.
[03:18:48] <exec> [urbandictionary] 3dmoz: To make a complete mess up something being built.
[03:18:58] <crutchy> ?
[03:19:40] <chromas> crutchy, Bytram, a web index
[03:19:53] <chromas> http://www.dmoz.org
[03:19:54] <monopoly> ^ 03DMOZ - the Open Directory Project: Help build the most comprehensive human-reviewed directory of the web
[03:19:55] <Bytram> oh, nod nod.
[03:20:46] <Bytram> when we first went live, I trd to get the internet archive to save copies of our first several stories and comments... don't know how well that "took".
[03:21:04] <crutchy> ooh and this index will supersede all other indexes... isn't there an xkcd that fits in here?
[03:21:36] <crutchy> do you have a screen cap of it Bytram?
[03:21:45] <crutchy> oh, hi Bytram btw :-)
[03:21:54] <crutchy> and hi chromas and NCommander too
[03:22:05] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: had a science teacher who told of, in his college days, how they launched a pound of sodium into a pond.
[03:22:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeep
[03:22:25] <Bytram> huge kaboom, fountain of water, and fish flying everywhere.
[03:22:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> basically the same thing then
[03:22:35] <crutchy> now it has salt water crocs instead of fresh water oones?
[03:22:44] <Bytram> they were told to not do that again. =)
[03:22:59] <Bytram> crutchy: hiya!
[03:23:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> was our pond. we didn't tell us shit.
[03:23:38] <Bytram> screen caps, no. wget --page-requistes .... yes.
[03:25:06] <Bytram> let's see if I can finfd 'em, now...
[03:28:02] -!- JamesNZ [JamesNZ!~james@43-567-441-22.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #Soylent
[03:28:53] <NCommander> bleh
[03:29:22] <chromas> hey there's a soylent network. looks like it's vegan++
[03:29:27] * chromas gives them the raspberry
[03:31:22] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The First "Potentially Habitable" Exo-planet was Probably just a Sunspot - http://sylnt.us - now-you-see-it-now-you-don't
[03:31:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm a vegan, once removed
[03:31:51] <Bytram> http://feeds.sciencedaily.com
[03:31:52] <monopoly> ^ 03Forecasting the development of breakthrough technologies to enable novel space missions -- ScienceDaily: A new report, Technological Breakthroughs for Scientific Progress, has been published today by the European Science Foundation. The five Overwhelming Drivers identifi... ( http://www.sciencedaily.com )
[03:31:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> vegans eat veggies, i eat vegans. vegan, once removed.
[03:32:00] <chromas> Your uncle was a vegan?
[03:32:01] <chromas> ah
[03:32:17] <chromas> lol
[03:33:06] <chromas> I wonder what the maximum message length is here. I should make the bot clip just under it for maximum annoyance :D
[03:33:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> in irc? good question.
[03:34:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[03:34:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> at least that many
[03:34:48] <crutchy> i generally clip at about 400-odd
[03:35:12] <chromas> I looked in the connection boilerplate; it says the topic length and stuff but not message
[03:35:16] <Bytram> lessee that's one, two, three, four, five, six, oops! One, two, three... =)
[03:35:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> 305 or so in that mess
[03:36:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> wc -c
[03:36:49] <chromas> Bytram: the correct way to count is to paste it into your terminal and pipe it through a counting script that you wrote just specifically for that purpose
[03:37:01] <chromas> ah wc -c
[03:37:01] <NCommander> Ok, I confirmed supersedes header MOSTLY works
[03:37:03] <chromas> watercloset
[03:37:07] <NCommander> So editing posts is viable
[03:37:14] <NCommander> yay
[03:37:15] <crutchy> 450 i think
[03:37:18] <Bytram> 12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567
[03:37:19] <Bytram> 890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890
[03:37:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> that looked to be just a hair over 400
[03:37:50] <Bytram> next
[03:37:52] <Bytram> 12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567
[03:37:52] <Bytram> 890
[03:37:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> 407 or so
[03:38:03] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: nod nod
[03:38:05] <crutchy> try as op
[03:38:09] <Bytram> .op
[03:38:09] -!- mode/#Soylent [+o Bytram] by juggler
[03:38:14] <Bytram> 12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567
[03:38:16] <Bytram> 890
[03:38:18] <Bytram> .deop
[03:38:18] -!- mode/#Soylent [-o Bytram] by juggler
[03:38:21] <Bytram> same difference
[03:38:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, editing posts wasn't viable before?
[03:38:58] <crutchy> that i wonder how i was able to get 450 in #
[03:39:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> Damn, I am awesome with the mad skillz then. I've been editing them since I first set up the vm.
[03:39:39] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I mean via NNTP gateway
[03:39:41] <Bytram> NCommander: if we're going to implement comment/post editing, PLEASE alow <del></del> and <ins></ins> HTML elements!!!!
[03:39:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahh, roger doger.
[03:39:49] <NCommander> <del>/<ins>?
[03:39:58] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, right now, the only thing editable is stories
[03:40:01] <Bytram> lol!
[03:40:36] <NCommander> Bytram, I don't think those are valid HTML tags
[03:40:37] <NCommander> :-P
[03:41:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> if we ever do allow comment editing, we need to make them show up as diffs at the end.
[03:42:43] <Bytram> <html><body><p>I heard that TheMightyBuzzard <del>said he</del> likes <ins>to eat</ins> vegans</bty></html>
[03:42:45] <chromas> wikisoylence
[03:42:56] <Bytram> cut-n-paste and try it in your favorite browser.
[03:43:05] <Bytram> NCommander: ^^^
[03:43:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> -You, sir, are a cockbiting fucktard.
[03:43:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> +I respectfully disagree.
[03:43:42] <chromas> and the mod points stay with the version they were assigned to
[03:43:54] <NCommander> THI'd probably just make the old version available
[03:44:04] <NCommander> W/ one exception Logged in -> AC won't show who posted it originally
[03:44:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> personally, i'm against comment editing. mean what you say or gtfo back to the kiddie pool.
[03:45:34] <chromas> How about comment editing but only by way of sed strings by anybody so we can put words in people's mouths
[03:45:38] <crutchy> need a nested irc type comment system, with no preview... once you blurt out your rant it stays for all the world to see
[03:45:42] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I don't mind it on a short period of time, i.e. 15/20 minutes
[03:45:45] <NCommander> To fix typos
[03:46:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> typos build character
[03:46:41] <chromas> and help inflate the coment count
[03:46:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> that too
[03:46:52] <chromas> s/m/mm/
[03:46:53] <SedBot> <chromas> and help inflate the comment count
[03:47:01] <chromas> oops, I edited
[03:47:01] <crutchy> without typos the grammar nazis would leave
[03:47:02] <Bytram> NCommander: that sounds reasonable, but with the caveat that *all* of the original text remain visible; use <del> ... </del> to bracket the deleted text
[03:47:31] <Bytram> and use <ins> ... </ins> to bracket the added text.
[03:47:44] <crutchy> bytram that sounds too much brain work
[03:48:06] <crutchy> we also need <flame></flame> tags :-P
[03:48:11] <NCommander> Bytram, I'd make it so you'd have to click a link, and pull up "comment history"
[03:48:13] <NCommander> like a wiki
[03:48:19] <crutchy> and <rant></rant> tags
[03:48:20] <Bytram> it would look "ugly" enough, quickly enough, that I suspect it would be relatively little-used.
[03:48:22] <NCommander> I'm not much in th emood to write a differ, but the idea is SANE
[03:48:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> we need a -1 Disagree mod.
[03:48:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> that doesn't work
[03:48:31] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, that we *don't* need :-P
[03:48:41] <crutchy> and a -1 tosser
[03:48:55] <Bytram> a"-1 Incitefull"
[03:49:02] <Bytram> =)
[03:49:07] <crutchy> -1 democrat
[03:49:08] <chromas> +1, I'd buy that for a dollar
[03:49:15] <crutchy> -1 republican
[03:49:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> i say we swap out all the mod names for wacky shit for april 1st
[03:49:33] <Bytram> LOL!
[03:49:49] <crutchy> -1 rotten burrito
[03:50:07] <crutchy> -1 you fail the turing test
[03:50:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> -1 Butthurt
[03:50:09] <Bytram> random color scheme on each page reload?
[03:50:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> +1 Me too!
[03:50:28] <crutchy> +1 i like cupcakes!
[03:50:51] <chromas> Wide margins with huge indents and a desaturated cyan
[03:50:59] <crutchy> +1 i want what you're smoking
[03:51:05] <Bytram> that would be easy enough to implement, and VERY effective in boosting page load counts, too! ;)
[03:52:23] <Bytram> this should do it all by itself, I think: div {margin: 2em !important}
[03:52:48] <chromas> and change the logo/slogan too: Soylent News is beta!
[03:52:53] <Bytram> pick a larger margin dependig on how obnoxious you want to amke t.
[03:53:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, oh hells yeah
[03:53:12] <crutchy> html { color: white !important; background-color: white !important; }
[03:53:25] <Bytram> SoyulentNews is Beta than Evah!
[03:53:26] <chromas> the logo could be a person projectile vomiting
[03:53:44] <Bytram> chromas--
[03:53:44] <Bender> karma - chromas: 15
[03:53:48] * NCommander swears
[03:53:51] <crutchy> aww
[03:53:54] <crutchy> chromas++
[03:53:54] <Bender> karma - chromas: 16
[03:54:01] <crutchy> karma war!!!!!
[03:54:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh hey, NCommander, got a request for a mobile site from a friend. told him use rss for now but it sounded like a good idea.
[03:54:07] <crutchy> :-P
[03:54:12] * Bytram was just trying to assist chromas with his "cleansing"
[03:54:17] <chromas> I think it needs a -
[03:54:27] <crutchy> mobile sites suck balls
[03:54:28] <chromas> I have too many karmas on SN too
[03:54:43] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: there's settings in the profile for lightweight and other such mobile-friendly settings (IIRC)
[03:54:56] <chromas> It works fine on android for me. The main column is readable; the side stuff is tiny but that's what zooms are for
[03:54:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, i tend to agree but not when you're trying to look at something on a phone.
[03:54:59] <crutchy> maybe a version without the sidebars would be good
[03:55:09] <crutchy> just a single column
[03:55:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod
[03:55:23] <crutchy> move sidebar content to top/bottom
[03:55:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> or just nuke it
[03:55:53] <NCommander> Argh
[03:55:56] <crutchy> maybe a html-erized version of the rss feed
[03:55:57] <NCommander> this cant be this difficult
[03:56:04] <NCommander> How do I easily put a ">" character after each new line
[03:56:21] <crutchy> shift+.
[03:56:25] * crutchy hides
[03:56:33] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: I use normal settings and view the site on my phone with a 320x240 display. no problems here.
[03:56:35] <chromas> s/\\n/\\n>/
[03:56:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> after each new line or before the start of each line?
[03:57:00] <NCommander> chromas, ugh, probably
[03:57:03] <NCommander> I dislike using regex
[03:57:20] <Bytram> NCommander: s/$/>$/ ???
[03:57:22] <chromas> you could user the perl equivalent of str.replace
[03:57:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> s/^(.)/>$1/ would do the beginning of each line
[03:57:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> er
[03:57:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah
[03:58:06] <crutchy> str_replace is a handy function
[03:58:15] <crutchy> awesome templating tool :-)
[03:58:54] <Bytram> NCommander: outline = ">" + outline; =)
[03:59:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, where's the fun without a regex?
[03:59:34] <Bytram> or... print ">" the_old_line;
[03:59:38] <Bytram> =)
[04:00:00] <Bytram> yeah, use to be a reg, but now it's an ex... regex!
[04:00:03] <crutchy> either that or something equiv to php's implode("\n>",explode("\n",$text))
[04:01:17] <chromas> Why are there newlines? Shouldn't they be replaced by slash with <br/> or </p><p> according to their consecutive count?
[04:01:39] <chromas> or is that after you convert for nntp
[04:02:08] <crutchy> maybe if it detects html it leaves newlines so as not to fuck up the html?
[04:02:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> html doesn't need newlines
[04:02:43] <chromas> I was just typing that; bastard
[04:02:52] <chromas> except for <code> and <pre> type blocks
[04:02:52] <crutchy> true, but replacing them with <br> might not look good
[04:03:06] <crutchy> having <table><br><tr> etc
[04:03:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> course you can make firefox fucking cry for its mommy if you give it a meg of html with no newlines.
[04:03:07] <chromas> slash sure puts out a lot of newlines
[04:03:20] <Bytram> hey all, just got an email reply from xlefay. He's been up n down and taking things as they come.
[04:03:33] <NCommander> chromas, this is for my Slash -> NNTP project, I'm converting HTML in to text out
[04:03:38] <NCommander> Formatted at 74 lines
[04:03:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> so, hookers then
[04:03:49] <NCommander> THe biggest problem is that comments are kinda uh ... iffy w/o context
[04:03:52] <Bytram> he said he'd be on IRC, probably some time this week.
[04:04:00] <crutchy> Bytram: good to hear. has he mentioned what 'up and down' means? or what happened?
[04:04:01] <chromas> woohoo
[04:04:06] <Bytram> I replied and invited him in right now!
[04:04:27] <crutchy> did his borked switch try to eat him?
[04:05:14] <Bytram> he wasn't specially particular. On the other hand, it was addressed to me, so I'm not sure how much he wanted to have generally revealed. So, that's all I'm sayin.
[04:05:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> hour or so more and ima sleep. going fishing tomorrow in the early.
[04:06:18] * Bytram pictures TheMightyBuzzard riding thermals over a lake and then swooping down to lunge for a fish just under the surface.
[04:06:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> too much effort. sit on the dock rail and wait for someone to catch them first.
[04:06:52] <NCommander> Bytram, he sent me an email as well
[04:06:58] <Bytram> crutchy: you could always send him an email, too. xlefay @ soy lent news dot org
[04:07:03] <NCommander> Asked if I was going be around this weekend
[04:07:38] <Bytram> nice to hear from him... his enthusiasm was something else!
[04:07:52] <Bytram> reminds me of when I had that much energy, too!
[04:08:12] <chromas> So he seems to be 'up' now?
[04:09:05] <Bytram> Can't really tell fro his note, so can't really say. sry!
[04:09:12] <Bytram> s/fro/from/
[04:09:12] <SedBot> <Bytram> Can't really tell from his note, so can't really say. sry!
[04:09:37] <Bytram> afk back in about 5-10 minutes
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[04:09:45] <chromas> Bytram: s/.*/Hell yeah!!12/
[04:09:45] <SedBot> <chromas> <Bytram> Hell yeah!!12
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[04:10:00] <crutchy> coffee++
[04:10:00] <Bender> karma - coffee: 320
[04:10:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[04:10:07] <Bender> karma - coffee: 321
[04:10:10] <crutchy> :-/
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[04:46:22] <Bytram> well, time for me to hit the hay... got an early one tomorrow.
[04:46:37] <Bytram> g'night everyone!
[04:48:01] <crutchy> night Bytram
[04:48:09] <crutchy> ~time america
[04:48:11] <exec> [Google] 10:48pm Friday (EDT) - Time in Washington, DC, USA
[04:48:19] <Bytram> crutchy: and the same to you!
[04:48:27] <Bytram> ~time down under
[04:48:28] <exec> location not found - UTC timestamp: Saturday, 5 July 2014, 02:48:28 am
[04:48:31] <crutchy> lol
[04:48:33] <Bytram> =)
[04:48:41] <Bytram> ~time australia
[04:48:43] <exec> [Google] 12:48pm Saturday (EST) - Time in Canberra ACT, Australia
[04:50:00] <Bytram> looks like you're about half-a-day ahead of us... please keep an eye on things and let me know if anything important happens, k? ;)
[04:50:13] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
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[04:57:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> same here. zzz
[04:59:51] * NCommander thinks he's going to play a game for awhile
[04:59:57] * NCommander is installing Evil Genius :-)
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[05:01:12] <crutchy> my missus has that game
[05:02:24] * crutchy has been playing sim city 4 a bit lately
[05:07:15] * pbnjoe picked that up recently
[05:26:37] <crutchy> bitch to set up
[05:26:42] <crutchy> ea_games--
[05:26:42] <Bender> karma - ea_games: -1
[05:27:14] <crutchy> i had to change the shortcut command to:
[05:27:17] <crutchy> "C:\Program Files (x86)\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe\Apps\SimCity 4.exe" -intro:off -CustomResolution:enabled -r1024x768x16 -f -d:DirectX -CPUCount:1 -EH:Off
[05:27:29] <crutchy> (added the extra params)
[05:28:28] <chromas> -intro:off sounds like a good one anyway
[05:28:41] <crutchy> stupid thing wouldn't even start
[05:28:55] <crutchy> spent half a day trawling google for answers
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[05:29:29] <crutchy> now it works ok. crashes occasionally but not often enough to be a problem
[05:29:49] <crutchy> i think the cpucount was the important one
[05:30:16] <crutchy> stopped it from crashing every time i tried to do something
[05:30:44] <arti> playing it through wine?
[05:30:45] <arti> whine
[05:37:52] <pbnjoe> I wonder if the custom launcher is only on Windows
[05:40:50] <crutchy> nah native
[05:41:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Claims that Rare "Leaked NSA Source Code" Reveals Tor Servers Targeted - http://sylnt.us - more-revelations-more-dirt-more-accusations-and-code!
[05:41:09] <pbnjoe> I was guessing so from your dir
[05:42:55] <pbnjoe> couple useful things here
[05:42:56] <pbnjoe> https://secure.gog.com
[05:42:57] <monopoly> ^ 03SimCity 4 - Tips for running on modern Windows, page 1 - Forum - GOG.com: Download the best games on Windows Mac. A vast selection of titles, DRM-free, with free goodies, customer love, and one fair price for all regions.
[05:43:04] <pbnjoe> going to find the launcher link
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[05:48:52] <pbnjoe> here we are
[05:48:53] <pbnjoe> http://community.simtropolis.com
[05:48:56] <monopoly> ^ 03SC4 Launcher - Simtropolis Forums
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[05:49:46] <ethanol-fueled> eat my smegma faggots.
[05:50:05] <ethanol-fueled> you filthy homosexuales.
[05:50:09] <pbnjoe> if you use it, just know it takes a freaking long time to start up the first time (minute+ yet it only uses 13MB RAM), but I used it once to configure things as I liked, then I used the quicklaunch .bat
[05:51:04] <ethanol-fueled> Hahahahahahaha
[05:51:32] <ethanol-fueled> staggering down to the bar.
[05:52:30] <ethanol-fueled> Y'all shut up listen to teh band!
[05:53:40] <ethanol-fueled> suck my fucking dick.
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[05:55:14] <chromas> Wasn't much of a set
[05:55:32] <chromas> Ethanol-Fueled and the Backdoor BAndits
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[07:50:37] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Video-Conferencing with Family, Friends Lowers Stress for Pediatric Patients - http://sylnt.us - are-you-homesick?
[08:34:27] * crutchy is listening to "time" from the inception soundtrack by hans zimmer... powerful stuff
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[08:57:43] <JamesNZ> crutchy: I love that track!
[09:03:04] <crutchy> very typical hans zimmer... he also did that track "journey to the line" from the thin red line soundtrack, which is often used as a theme for the 9/11 attack on the wtc
[09:04:50] <JamesNZ> Ah, haven't heard that one.
[09:05:46] <crutchy> sounds very similar
[09:06:04] <crutchy> if that one doesn't pull on your heartstrings you don't have any :-P
[09:06:46] <crutchy> it sounds awesome on a decent sound system :-)
[09:10:54] * JamesNZ is listening to it now, sounds great
[09:12:45] <JamesNZ> Does sound quite similar to 'Time'.
[09:19:07] <crutchy> i saw the last samurai at the cinema... what made it amazing was the score. another hans zimmer classic
[09:19:09] <crutchy> https://www.youtube.com
[09:19:09] <monopoly> ^ 03The Last Samurai OST #4 -- A Hard Teacher - YouTube: Movie: The Last Samurai (2003) Soundtrack Album: The Last Samurai Original Motion Picture Score (2013) Artist/Composer: Hans Zimmer Track: A Hard Teacher IMD...
[09:21:49] <crutchy> 2.30 is the start of my favourite bit :-)
[09:23:52] <crutchy> there's a low freq part that prolly gets missed on anything without a sub
[09:25:32] <crutchy> not sure if mp3 conversion cuts any of it out. i bought the cd version
[09:27:55] <JamesNZ> Aye, not a bad track.
[09:30:02] <JamesNZ> This one's quite good: https://www.youtube.com
[09:30:02] <monopoly> ^ 03Trent Reznor & Atticus Ross - Pieces Form The Whole - The Social Network - YouTube: First song from the "The Social Network" 5-Track-Sampler. http://www.nullco.com
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[10:00:14] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Stem-Cell Studies Once Hailed as "Copernican Revolution" Now Officially Retracted - http://sylnt.us - a-long-but-thought-provoking-story
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[10:37:48] <crutchy> g'day Subsentient
[10:39:14] <Subsentient> hi crutchy
[11:14:02] <Konomi> ah television the only device that becomes more useful when you turn it off
[11:16:04] <crutchy> yes
[11:16:18] -!- Subsentient has quit [Quit: A good gerbil is one with the peanut butter.]
[11:17:06] <crutchy> i only wish i convince my kids of that
[11:17:23] <crutchy> and my missus :-P
[11:17:33] <Konomi> best never to let kids use it in the first plade
[11:17:41] <Konomi> if I ever had kids they'd get a computer and thats it
[11:18:09] <Konomi> I'm pretty sure they'd try to take over the world though so it's a bad idea full stop
[11:18:26] <ar> JamesNZ: I know the pieces fit 'cause I watched them fall away…
[11:21:02] <crutchy> my kids had access to a computer from very early age. problem is by the time parents start needing a break (with a little help from the pixellated baby sitters) kids aren't usually dextrous enough to figure out how to move a mouse let alone how how it translates to the movement of a tiny little arrow on a screen
[11:21:15] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Study shows that Sprinters Falsify the Deliberate Practice Model of Expertise - http://sylnt.us - innate-excellence
[11:22:04] <ar> crutchy: i knew how to configure a not-exactly-SB-compatible-sound-card in dos games when i was 5
[11:23:09] <crutchy> my kids knew how to use windows vista and gnome (debian) from when they were about 4 (just basic functions)
[11:23:18] <crutchy> but 4 years is a fairly long time
[11:23:46] <ar> i was 5… oh, it was 1992
[11:24:03] <crutchy> the kids games in the debian repos are very good for learning how to use a keyboard and mouse
[11:24:32] <crutchy> i was in grade 5 in '92
[11:25:03] <crutchy> maybe 10 yo
[11:25:25] <crutchy> i think i was still on a c64 then
[11:26:10] <ar> my first computer was a pc
[11:26:21] * crutchy didn't have access to an ibm-compatible pc at home till he was almost finished high school (it was a cyrix 200 mhz)
[11:26:50] <crutchy> had a c64, then an amiga 500 before
[11:27:12] <ar> i also had a real NES (or SNES) back then. even though at the time russian/chinese clones were abundant
[11:27:30] <Konomi> crutchy: I'd probably have my kid around 24/7 and teach them everything I can think of but that's me
[11:27:33] <Konomi> ;p
[11:27:33] <JamesNZ> ar: Heh.
[11:28:00] <crutchy> teaching kids is hard work, and the first few years is just basic motor skills
[11:28:27] <crutchy> playing with blocks. reinforcement of things like touching the heater while its on it bad
[11:28:50] <crutchy> very repetitious
[11:29:03] <ar> Lego!
[11:29:30] <crutchy> nah. they eat lego till they about 2-3yo
[11:29:41] <chromas> duplo
[11:29:46] <crutchy> need yup :-)
[11:29:55] <chromas> and they work with legos
[11:30:53] <crutchy> need things like big wooden blocks and cardboard books
[11:30:59] <ar> plasticine and legos were my favourite toys
[11:31:00] <crutchy> (they chew on them too)
[11:31:15] <ar> and, of course, computer
[11:31:27] <crutchy> dirt is apparently very flavorsome to a 2yo
[11:31:58] <ar> and i never had duplos
[11:32:01] <chromas> Never heard of plasticine
[11:32:11] <crutchy> like playdough
[11:32:17] <crutchy> or playdoh
[11:32:21] <crutchy> however its spelt
[11:32:36] <crutchy> more clayish though
[11:32:39] <chromas> actually I think it was mentioned in an early South Park but it was explosive
[11:32:49] <crutchy> lol
[11:33:08] <crutchy> ~define plasticine
[11:33:12] <exec> [www.wolframalpha.com] 3plasticine: noun | a synthetic material resembling clay but remaining soft; used as a substitute for clay or wax in modeling (especially in schools)
[11:33:34] <chromas> wow it's ancient too
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[11:35:07] <ar> i also did play with mercury from a broken thermometer a bit. didn't eat it, but i didn't knew it was poisonous
[11:35:08] <chromas> Just give them a stick and an anthill and let them learn
[11:35:47] <ar> i remember being amused by how it behaved like not-water
[11:36:05] <crutchy> i remember i once played with an old kettle (one of the ones with the immersed coil heaters) and mildly electrocuted myself
[11:37:41] <crutchy> safety is hard to teach little kids... its where the feminists who believe its wrong not to smack kids get it wrong
[11:37:53] <crutchy> s/not to/to/
[11:37:54] <SedBot> <crutchy> safety is hard to teach little kids... its where the feminists who believe its wrong to smack kids get it wrong
[11:38:16] <crutchy> a smacked kid is better than a dead one
[11:39:11] <crutchy> maybe not feminists, but generally self-righteous women
[11:39:26] * crutchy is probably digging himself into a hole
[11:40:08] <chromas> http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net
[11:40:09] <monopoly> ^ 03Love your kids? Prove it by beating them.: love your kids? show it by beating them
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[11:41:19] <crutchy> lol
[11:41:33] <crutchy> that's old skool smacking :-P
[11:41:51] <crutchy> i remember my old man telling me how he used to get caned at school
[11:42:08] <crutchy> just for making too much noise
[11:42:26] <crutchy> times sure change
[11:42:44] <crutchy> if a teacher touches a kid now they get sued
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[11:45:09] <crutchy> parents are pussies nowadays
[11:45:25] * crutchy is probably too
[11:45:54] <chromas> Yep; unless you're taking the kids out to play with the snakes and dropbears
[11:46:09] <crutchy> i only smacked my kids when they were little when they did things like try to run out onto the road
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[11:47:06] <crutchy> wb KonomiNetbook
[11:47:16] <crutchy> are you related to Konomi? :-P
[11:47:16] <Konomi> wb my netbook
[11:47:28] <Konomi> soon I will be another wb
[11:47:30] <Konomi> network-manager update
[11:47:41] * crutchy barfs
[11:47:59] <Konomi> keep your bodily fluids off of my daemons
[11:49:33] * crutchy is surprised that nm needs a restart
[11:49:36] <Konomi> network-manager is just going to be another pulseaudio everyone will complain then one day wonder how they did without it
[11:49:45] <crutchy> lol i guess it does need a network restart :-P
[11:49:56] <Konomi> actually it already restarted
[11:50:10] <Konomi> just doesn't effect irc due to irc having a large timeout
[11:50:30] <ar> Konomi: i don't usually run PA on my desktop
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[11:50:45] <crutchy> i have absolutely nfi how that works, but cool!
[11:50:48] <Konomi> you probably don't switch between audio devices on the fly very much then
[11:51:01] <ar> Konomi: and i only have NM on my laptop, because it makes dealing with the integrated 3g modem a bit easier
[11:51:31] <ar> Konomi: well, i don't. i only use one sound card there
[11:51:44] <ar> Konomi: most of the switching is done on the amplituner anyway
[11:51:52] <Konomi> I figured as much
[11:51:56] <crutchy> ~define amplituner
[11:51:57] <Konomi> I use a usb headset
[11:52:00] <Konomi> alsa is a joke for it
[11:52:03] <exec> amplituner: unable to find definition
[11:52:05] <ar> crutchy: Onkyo TX-8030
[11:52:12] <Konomi> they just mean an amplifier with extras crutchy
[11:52:14] <crutchy> ah a real thing
[11:52:18] <Konomi> radio etc
[11:52:22] <crutchy> receiver
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[11:52:36] <ar> yeah
[11:52:43] <ar> except i don't use much of the "extras" on it
[11:52:58] <crutchy> i don't use mine much either
[11:53:10] <Konomi> the word doesn't seem to be english in origin either judging by a google search
[11:53:31] <crutchy> they mostly receivers in australia i think
[11:53:59] <crutchy> even the ones where the radio is a tiny fraction of the capabilities
[11:54:29] <ar> i never even connected the radio antenna to mine
[11:55:31] <ar> mostly because radio isn't that much better than tv here, content-wise
[11:58:22] <crutchy> i think mine is a sony str-db790 (its in a different room and i can't be bothered getting off the couch). was a nice unit years ago when i bought it. no hdmi though which is a bummer nowadays
[11:58:22] <Konomi> I mostly listen to the radio
[11:58:33] <Konomi> it's good background noise
[11:58:49] <Konomi> I'd use a tv but even over hearing the advertising is enough to annoy me
[11:59:08] <chromas> Your radio isn't full of ads?
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[12:00:34] <Konomi> we have government funded stations
[12:00:37] <Konomi> they have no ads
[12:00:47] <crutchy> konomi, download those hour long chillout tunes on youtube. the cafe del mar ones are pretty good
[12:01:04] <Konomi> I generally like listening to people talk over music
[12:01:15] <crutchy> ah. abc then
[12:01:22] <crutchy> or sbs digital
[12:02:52] <Konomi> the sbs radio stations tend to not be in english very often
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[12:03:03] <crutchy> nod
[12:04:00] <crutchy> in the car when i'm driving to work on my own i put on 107.9 i think it is, which is the gippsland abc radio
[12:04:21] <crutchy> lots of interesting talk segments
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[12:10:58] <crutchy> something that i really miss in high end receivers is the digital spectrum analysis
[12:11:19] <ar> why?
[12:11:43] <ar> i don't like blinkenlights on my audio equipment
[12:11:49] <crutchy> cheap boom box style sound systems often have dressed up vu meters, but i like the proper ones
[12:12:50] <crutchy> i loved it. my grandparents had a sony with a 7 band dsp spectum
[12:13:14] <crutchy> i used to sit in front of it and be mesmerised by how it moved with the music
[12:14:04] <crutchy> ar, yeah i think a lot of people prolly the same which is why its not found in current models
[12:15:13] <ar> i used to have a sony EQ back from early 90s that had blinkenlights
[12:15:27] <ar> well, actually it had an lcd
[12:15:52] <crutchy> the dsp ones were good cos they had falloff etc
[12:15:57] <crutchy> wasn't as jittery
[12:19:32] <crutchy> something like this... http://www.radiomuseum.org
[12:19:34] <monopoly> ^ 037Band Graphic Equalizer SEQ-711 Ampl/Mixer Sony; Tokyo: 7Band Graphic Equalizer SEQ-711 Ampl/Mixer Sony; Tokyo, build 1990 ??, 10 pictures, Japan, schematics, tubes, semiconductors, Audio Amplifier or -mixer
[12:19:49] <crutchy> (my gradparent's was built into the receiver though)
[12:21:53] <ar> now i started to wonder how hard would it be to make an fpga-based programmable EQ
[12:23:09] <crutchy> a lot of people just use microcontrollers
[12:23:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> fpga, no idea. pretty easy to do with analog kit though.
[12:23:16] <crutchy> a dsp chip would be better
[12:23:39] <crutchy> something with dedicated a-d
[12:23:51] <crutchy> and fft
[12:24:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> well tuned multiple-bandpass-filters per channel and a pot/slide to control it sounds better than digital imo
[12:25:52] <crutchy> old skool :-P
[12:26:02] <crutchy> filtering is much better with analog
[12:26:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, plus easy to build. no coding necessary, just math.
[12:27:10] <crutchy> i think there's websites where you just enter the cutoff frequency and it gives you the cap values
[12:27:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> and you get to wind your own coils
[12:28:16] <crutchy> can't remember much about that kinda stuff
[12:28:33] <crutchy> are they for high pass?
[12:29:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'what the internet is for. can poke in winds/diameter/length and get your henrys value
[12:29:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> high pass and band pass i believe but don't quote me on it
[12:29:54] <crutchy> i remember looking into that years ago but digital kinda drowned it out
[12:30:18] <crutchy> i learnt the transfer functions at uni
[12:30:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> or was it low pass... probably low pass cause coils dislike fast changes in current direction
[12:30:58] <crutchy> ah
[12:31:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> while caps are all about passing AC
[12:32:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> anyway. the fooshies, they call to me. they say "come, let us mock you while you attempt to catch us."
[12:33:29] <crutchy> the kenwood ge-7030 looks nice
[12:33:42] <crutchy> http://www.youtube.com
[12:33:42] <monopoly> ^ 03Kenwood KA-405 Kenwood GE-7030 Tannoy V30 @Artico - YouTube: Test Prova Elettroniche
[12:34:16] <crutchy> prolly wouldn't match the look of a sony receiver, but meh
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[12:40:25] <prospectacle> hey good work everyone on making it to the incorporation stage (mostly NC, and after that mostly staff, but everyone)
[12:41:04] <prospectacle> looking forward to being a card-carrying member (can we have a premium subscription where you get a literal card to carry?)
[12:41:59] <crutchy> lol i would prolly leave my soylent card at home :-P
[12:42:34] <crutchy> hi prospectacle :-D
[12:42:53] <prospectacle> how's it going crutchy? I'm watching jurassic park 3
[12:42:54] <crutchy> i want a troll card ;-)
[12:43:01] <prospectacle> that should be an option
[12:43:05] <prospectacle> official SN troll
[12:43:40] <crutchy> ooh the one that kinda really tries to portray the second half of crichton's book (the lost world) and kinda falls flat on its face
[12:44:16] <crutchy> to be fair it was a big ask. crichton writes (wrote) awesome books
[12:44:24] <prospectacle> it's not great, but some of the effects are pretty advanced compared to the other two
[12:44:42] <prospectacle> I just found out they're making a fourth
[12:44:52] <prospectacle> due out in 341 days or something
[12:45:00] <crutchy> have you read the books?
[12:45:06] <crutchy> they shit all over all the films
[12:45:21] <prospectacle> no, I should check them out.
[12:45:36] <prospectacle> I like buying books at op shops, and without fail every op shop has a copy of "Prey" by M.C. I don't know why
[12:45:49] <crutchy> i have most of michael crichton's books in my book shelf :-P
[12:46:02] <prospectacle> is prey any good, i'm curious now
[12:46:05] <crutchy> prey is fairly good
[12:46:17] <crutchy> just trying to remember which one it is :-P
[12:46:19] <prospectacle> It must be one of those "only read once" books
[12:46:37] <prospectacle> which is not necessarily a bad thing
[12:46:49] <crutchy> they are usually quite technical
[12:47:57] <prospectacle> what's his best one if I was going to start?
[12:52:52] <crutchy> i can't remember which one i started with. might have been jurassic park
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[12:53:24] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v mattie_p] by juggler
[12:53:39] <prospectacle> is the plot very different overall, or did they just sort of dumb it down for the movies?
[12:54:22] <prospectacle> hi mattie_p
[12:55:18] <ar> hm
[12:55:36] <Konomi> hey crutchy when someones mobile drops out and you try to call back and it says this person is not available does that mean they left the coverage area?
[12:55:41] <Konomi> google isnthelpming me out much
[12:55:44] <ar> there's something called "FPAA" - field programmable analog array
[12:57:34] <crutchy> for me usually means they trying to ring back at the same time as i'm trying to ring them back :-P
[13:00:19] <Popeidol> unless they usually have voicemail set up it can mean anything
[13:00:57] <Popeidol> battery flat, out of service, vodafone deciding to dick around, etc
[13:03:23] <Popeidol> prospectacle: start with jurassic park/the lost world. prey is in every bookshop for the same reason the da vinci code is.
[13:03:56] <prospectacle> lol, noted
[13:04:37] <crutchy> it took hollywood 3 movies to fail to fit all of mc's 2 books
[13:05:38] <crutchy> the terminal man is a fairly easy read
[13:05:40] <prospectacle> yeah I'm glad more books are becoming tv series these days. Fits the length of a novel much better. Can keep more of the twists and details
[13:06:15] <crutchy> i think i read terminal man in high school
[13:07:56] <crutchy> is prey the one with the grey goo?
[13:08:05] <crutchy> fuck i can't remember any more
[13:08:37] <crutchy> i also got the one that he was writing when he died :-)
[13:08:43] <crutchy> about the pirates
[13:08:59] <prospectacle> cool pirates
[13:09:39] <crutchy> ooh actually i've read micro too. definitely recommend that one
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[13:10:00] <prospectacle> ok thanks
[13:10:17] <crutchy> micro gets you thinking about physics at small scale (bug scale)
[13:10:37] <prospectacle> well i'm going for a walk. Have a good saturday everyone.
[13:10:49] <Popeidol> the andromeda strain is pretty decent, and I quite enjoyed airframe
[13:10:54] <crutchy> see ya matey. i'll prolly still be about when you get back :-)
[13:10:55] <Popeidol> I'm not really sure why I like airframe, but I do
[13:10:57] <prospectacle> thanks for the recommendations crutchy, I'll read some sample chapters on the amazon
[13:11:13] <crutchy> all mc is good. that's why he's my favourite author :-D
[13:11:25] <prospectacle> sounds like he has more than i realised
[13:11:27] <prospectacle> See you guys
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[13:11:51] <crutchy> i read airframe when i was working as an aeronautical engineer :-P
[13:12:26] <crutchy> was interesting to see some regulatory bits thrown in that i could identify with at the time
[13:13:34] <crutchy> the andromeda strain movie was a real let down. i read the book years before i heard there was a movie. i don't know why but i had high expectations :-/
[13:13:59] <Popeidol> oh yeah, I forgot there was a movie.
[13:14:18] <crutchy> i remember whole chapters being dedicated to the security systems, but in the film it was barely a mention
[13:14:57] <Popeidol> yeah, there was huge amounts of detail about how each level had stricter quarantine than those prior
[13:15:47] <crutchy> same with jurassic park/lost world. its prolly difficult to portray the sort of technical details in a movie i guess
[13:25:12] <Popeidol> there are two things I really loved about those two books:
[13:25:46] <Popeidol> 1) he killed off a main character at the end of the first novel, and then resurrected him when he realised there would be a sequel
[13:26:31] <crutchy> who was that? don't remember that. i remember he killed off hammond in the jurassic park book
[13:26:50] <crutchy> can't remember if hammond was in 2nd book
[13:27:32] <Popeidol> ian malcolm, the mathematician
[13:27:47] <crutchy> did he get killed in the jp book?
[13:27:51] <Popeidol> he did
[13:28:01] <crutchy> fuck was a long time ago. i need to read it again
[13:28:21] <Popeidol> and then in the lost world they were all 'lol yeah the news was exaggerated, I just hurt my leg'
[13:28:36] <crutchy> lol i guess money talks
[13:28:44] <Popeidol> hammond got eaten by dinosaurs pretty badly in the first book and did not appear again
[13:29:02] <crutchy> i think mc was pretty outgoing and got caught up in the hype a bit
[13:29:16] <crutchy> got into strife for some things he said
[13:29:17] <Popeidol> but number two: he put forward a dodgy scientific theory in the first book that the T-rex had a frog brain and couldn't sense motion
[13:29:21] <Popeidol> and corrected it in the second
[13:29:29] <Popeidol> went into a long rant about how it was a bad theory off bad evidence
[13:29:55] <Popeidol> everything about crichton makes me think he was a larger-than-life character
[13:30:17] <Popeidol> including the fact he was very large
[13:30:21] <crutchy> the one scene i reckon the movie did pretty well at was the trailer over the cliff. prolly lot of details missing but the graphic was very authentic
[13:30:45] <Popeidol> (he was 6'9")
[13:30:48] <crutchy> wow
[13:30:52] <crutchy> didn't know that
[13:32:30] <crutchy> i really hated how the raptors turned into retards in the second movie
[13:33:04] <crutchy> every single human should have been pwned
[13:33:04] <Popeidol> well, the books varied on that front too
[13:33:21] <Popeidol> in the first one it was all about how the raptors had a society going and looked after their own in the nest
[13:33:31] <crutchy> i can't remember much of the jp/lw books :-(
[13:33:43] <Popeidol> in the second it was about how they had learned knowledge like us, so they were crazy and just attacking each other and anything that moved
[13:33:53] <Popeidol> the lost world movie stuck to the book a surprising amount to be honest
[13:34:06] <crutchy> i remember the pictures of the 3d computer thing in the lw book :-P
[13:34:16] <crutchy> the rotating cube
[13:34:32] <crutchy> don't remember seeing that in the movie
[13:35:46] <crutchy> maybe that was some of the inspiration for compiz
[13:40:59] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - How Secret 'Greenscreen Fluffers' Create the Windswept Effects in Action Films and Shampoo Ads - http://sylnt.us - green-ninja
[13:41:18] <Popeidol> that's right, the rotating cube with all the different screens on each side
[13:41:30] <Popeidol> definitely a step up from the SGI 3d interface in jurassic park
[13:42:52] <Popeidol> I remember when I first read that thinking how bad the interface sounded to actually use
[13:43:07] <Popeidol> 'why do you have security camera footage on a cube that's rotated away from you'
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[14:12:30] <prospectacle> hmm my authentication failed, can someone check my password: swordfish123
[14:12:43] <prospectacle> j/k but it says "prospectacle isn't a registered nickname"
[14:12:54] <prospectacle> is the authentication server something separate?
[14:14:23] <crutchy> it's just nickserv
[14:14:36] <crutchy> did you do /ns identify swordfish123
[14:14:53] <crutchy> stupid question
[14:14:58] <crutchy> i dunno what would have changed
[14:15:24] <crutchy> only thing i can think of is if you haven't identified for 30 days it drops the registration
[14:16:35] <prospectacle> you know it's possible
[14:16:49] <crutchy> xlefay was thinking about upping that to 60 days but not sure if he did
[14:17:03] <prospectacle> there was six weeks or so when I was crazy busy working evenings and weekends, and decided if I went on here I'd end up staying for hours
[14:17:48] <prospectacle> there we go I'm re-registered
[14:17:51] <prospectacle> thanks crutchy
[14:18:42] <prospectacle> it would be funny to register "nickerve" and "nicksrv" etc and you'd get to steal a lot of passwords
[14:19:04] <crutchy> lol doesn't let you do that. there's a few others too
[14:19:30] <prospectacle> ah, some smart cookies workin at SN
[14:19:36] <prospectacle> guess my career as a whitehat will have to wait
[14:19:59] <crutchy> i haven't got services installed on my charybdis but i was reading about it a while back. there's a bit to it from memory
[14:20:32] <crutchy> xlefay is the ircd guru
[14:20:57] <prospectacle> irc is pretty cool system, with bots you can make it do virtually anything
[14:21:38] <prospectacle> I used to chat in one where it had a big database of topics so if it ran out steam you could go /wheel and it would ask a question and people would discuss it .Was pretty cool.
[14:21:42] <crutchy> he is/was developing an ircd into his bot (sublight)
[14:22:10] <crutchy> he got the server-server connection working
[14:22:27] <crutchy> so sublight appears as a service rather than a client
[14:22:43] <crutchy> (like chanserv)
[14:23:02] <crutchy> or juggler
[14:23:22] <prospectacle> sounds fancy
[14:24:48] <crutchy> he was so excited about it. his enthusiasm was what spawned exec
[14:25:37] <prospectacle> yeah I always get inspired on here when people are talking about developing stuff. Makes me go and work on my own projects
[14:26:17] <crutchy> i think xlefay was a bit dismayed at my functional hackery
[14:26:21] <prospectacle> normally I do dev. at work all day and I couldn't be bothered doing any in my spare time, but if I read about it I'm like "Yeah I could make something cool, maybe I'll do that right now"
[14:27:26] <crutchy> i remember chatting with him when i developed the first define script. he mentioned wolframalpha and how it would be cool to use its api, and me being me thought 'hey i can just scrape' and i whipped it up that night :-P
[14:27:36] <prospectacle> crutchy, I wouldn't sweat it. It's always good to be looking to improve, but you gotta forge your own path, especially for hobby projects
[14:28:13] <crutchy> i think he was almost offended :-P
[14:28:23] <crutchy> very bad hackery
[14:28:28] <prospectacle> i love hacking up quick proofs of concept. It's the most fun part. Although making a well tested and refined final product is more satisfying after the fact
[14:31:53] <crutchy> what kinda stuff do you code for a living prospectacle? if you don't mind me asking (ok if you prefer to keep it to yourself)
[14:33:23] <prospectacle> no problem at all. It's pc and web stuff. Basically just taking a bunch of data and trying to show useful graphs and stuff from it. e.g. trends over time, exporting and importing data, letting users design their own reports on the website, stuff like that
[14:33:38] <prospectacle> sometimes it's fun, sometimes a bit tedious
[14:33:48] <prospectacle> what kind of stuff do you do at real work?
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[14:34:50] <crutchy> code compliance mainly. structures, vessels, mechanical things, etc
[14:35:15] <prospectacle> like regulatory code, or software code?
[14:35:17] <crutchy> sometimes i prepare drawings
[14:35:33] <crutchy> regulatory codes (mostly australian standards)
[14:36:12] <prospectacle> oh yeah, cool. I used to work for a place that made an app for technicians to log compliance-based inspections and maintenance on safety equipment. Was pretty interesting how involved it was
[14:36:35] <prospectacle> I barely scratched the surface
[14:36:45] <crutchy> i'm a small piece in a big jigsaw puzzle (like most of us i guess)
[14:37:11] <crutchy> my part only comes to bear when something goes wrong though
[14:37:28] <prospectacle> indeed. I read somewhere that no one really knows how ot make a pencil
[14:37:40] <crutchy> until then my profession is just a necessary overhead for most clients
[14:37:41] <prospectacle> There's like five or 10 stages and some different department or company takes care of each part.
[14:38:22] <crutchy> have you seen how they make hotdogs?
[14:38:29] <crutchy> damn complex
[14:38:45] <crutchy> and cds, gumballs, etc
[14:38:47] <prospectacle> people complain a lot about regulations and red-tape, etc, but that's because they only see the system when it all goes smoothly (largely because most people follow the regulations to some degree).
[14:39:20] <prospectacle> I have not seen how they make hot-dogs, no.
[14:39:22] <cykros> prospectacle: spoken like someone who hasn't been in the kitchen of most restaurants
[14:39:24] <prospectacle> sounds gross
[14:39:28] <crutchy> regulations are part of the picture. worksafe isn't all that proactive so threat of litigation mostly drives things
[14:39:30] <cykros> re: most people follow regulations
[14:40:02] <prospectacle> cykros, well I added "to some degree" becuase I know there's lots of corner cutting. My point was how different it would be if there weren't even those regulations to vaguely stick to.
[14:40:09] <crutchy> most people do follow regulations when it comes to industrial safety
[14:40:10] <cykros> yea, very true
[14:40:23] <crutchy> unions play a part in that
[14:40:32] <cykros> i do advise people who are on a tight budget take the time to go tour a restaurant's kitchen, preferably unbeknownst to management. it's a good way to save money
[14:40:42] <cykros> especially if you're particularly squeamish
[14:40:47] <prospectacle> lol
[14:40:52] <cykros> "hrm, i think i'll make some rice and beans at home today..."
[14:41:06] <prospectacle> yeah I worry about it sometimes. But I love takeaway so much
[14:41:08] <crutchy> don't order anything with curry at a cheap restaurant
[14:41:22] <cykros> nah, just make sure the curry is super spicy
[14:41:44] <cykros> carolina reapers kill off microbes, right? :-P
[14:41:50] <crutchy> so you can't taste whatever they found in the garbage and cooked up underneath
[14:42:25] <cykros> heh, i'm not nearly squeamish enough to care, but seeing how the average person reacts to things regularly reminds me that i'm a bit of an outlier there.
[14:42:55] <prospectacle> I worked at a restaurant once. Only like filling in temporarily. Anyway the chef had a big sore on his hand and would occasionally spray it with some disinfectant spray throughout the night.
[14:42:59] <cykros> one of the places my gf and i used to go to we joked about getting our rat dumplings regularly. the health inspector shivered when i mentioned the place's name to her
[14:43:12] <cykros> always a good sign
[14:43:32] <cykros> see, most places at least mostly convince the health department they follow regulations...
[14:43:40] <prospectacle> I remember thinking it was more of a token gesture. I mean at places where they prepare food in front of you they tend to wear gloves
[14:43:45] <crutchy> cykros... you been here before tonight? nick doesn;t ring a bell
[14:44:00] <cykros> crutchy: i've been mostly idle in here since the early fuck beta days :-)
[14:44:07] <crutchy> ah
[14:44:09] <cykros> but i'm also on about 12 other irc channels
[14:44:15] <cykros> and usually not up at this hour other than recently
[14:44:19] <crutchy> lol :-P
[14:44:22] <cykros> (few week vacation from work
[14:44:27] <prospectacle> has your faith been restored and inspired by incorporation?
[14:44:41] <prospectacle> vacation++
[14:44:41] <Bender> karma - vacation: 1
[14:44:41] <crutchy> now we have a proper bureaucracy :-D
[14:45:18] * crutchy has nfi what incorporation actually means
[14:45:24] <crutchy> for us anyway
[14:45:39] <crutchy> sounds like lawyer ammo
[14:45:59] <cykros> it means that just because someone has the root password doesn't mean they can take the site and run with it.
[14:46:01] <prospectacle> crutchy, I think it basically means legally recognised as an organisation, which can act like a legal person in itself, as opposed to just a bunch of poeple doing stuff together as individuals.
[14:46:05] <cykros> for one
[14:46:34] <prospectacle> legal person meaning can own money and property, can sign contracts, can sue and be sued, etc
[14:46:38] <cykros> particularly if ncommander gets eaten by a bear, or worse, makes the mistake of driving 26 mph in amherst new hampshire.
[14:46:44] <crutchy> not sure how they could be stopped by incorporation
[14:47:04] <crutchy> nc has SN by the balls and there's nothing that any of us could do about it
[14:47:06] <cykros> crutchy: well, the root password less so than if they were say, in charge of handling things with the hosting company
[14:47:24] <cykros> because sure, root passwords can be reset.
[14:48:04] <cykros> oh, i meant mostly if it's someone other than NC. though depending on how things were set up, if he weren't given supreme executive power, then it would offer some checks to that.
[14:48:18] <crutchy> i guess as long as there are at least two people that the hosting company will listen to (and they aren't in cohorts)
[14:48:26] <cykros> it just gives a framework so that our organization can have some legitimacy to it rather than it being a free for all if things go south
[14:48:36] <prospectacle> crutchy, someone with root could in practice do lots of damage, but now it would be illegal if they did. or at least something they could reasonably be sued for with a chance of success
[14:48:57] <crutchy> who could sue though?
[14:49:06] <crutchy> and what would they sue?
[14:49:16] <cykros> it definitely helps in matters of finances, as anyone familiar with how things went in many cases with the occupy movement and fundraising...
[14:49:37] <prospectacle> crutchy, it's the difference between you wiping your own server, and wiping a server at your company.
[14:49:40] <cykros> "incorporation" was a dirty word, but then...well, people with access to money and money kind of had a tendency to just up and disappear
[14:49:45] <cykros> and there wasn't really much of any recourse
[14:49:48] <cykros> because who did they steal from?
[14:50:01] <crutchy> if i wiped my server at work my boss would sue me personally
[14:50:02] <cykros> without that legal personhood, there was nobody to clearly make a claim
[14:50:07] <crutchy> cos he knows where i live :-P
[14:50:10] <prospectacle> crutchy, exactly
[14:50:25] <crutchy> if he had no idea where i live it would be different though
[14:50:43] <prospectacle> crutchy, so if some "staff' wiped an SN server, then whoever is on its board of directors (or whatever structure it now has) could sue that person.
[14:50:47] <crutchy> it would be difficult to serve a court order
[14:51:16] <prospectacle> crutchy, it would but now there are registered directors (or some equivalent), it's a condition of incorporation, if I'm not mistaken
[14:51:24] <cykros> yea, that's when we'd have to pull a 2600 and sic the fanboy "hacker" army on our enemies
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[14:51:48] <prospectacle> cykros, yeah a few talented hackers could probably find the home address of someone fairly quickly.
[14:51:54] <cykros> heh, not that i have a big problem with that maneuvre they took, but best to call it what it was.
[14:51:57] <crutchy> lol we can raise an army of bots to spam his email :-P
[14:52:08] <prospectacle> what's a 2600?
[14:52:15] <cykros> 2600 magazine, the hacker quarterly
[14:52:22] <cykros> it's been around since...idk, i think at least the 80s
[14:52:28] <prospectacle> ah i see
[14:52:32] <cykros> www.2600.net
[14:52:38] <cykros> err
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[14:52:50] <cykros> www.2600.com
[14:53:00] * crutchy kicks monopoly
[14:53:15] <crutchy> hmm
[14:53:23] <crutchy> http://www.2600.com
[14:53:24] <monopoly> ^ 032600 News | 2600
[14:53:27] <cykros> basically their publisher dissolved and reincorporated and left them unpaid for 6 months worth of magazines that they sold.
[14:53:31] <crutchy> lol there we go :-P
[14:53:48] <cykros> and the legal dissolution precluded 2600 from any legal recourse
[14:54:11] <cykros> so they decided to just kind of lay it all out there and in not so many words, sic the army they hope they have on the enthusiast network
[14:54:26] <prospectacle> cykros, nasty business
[14:54:31] <cykros> yea
[14:54:37] <cykros> well, steal from a bunch of hackers...
[14:54:40] <crutchy> kinda why i've avoided any vested interest in SN
[14:54:57] <prospectacle> crutchy, think about embezzling, for example. If you're not incorporated and you run a site, and you accept donations. Well you do whatever you w ant with them.
[14:55:07] <crutchy> pretty much
[14:55:08] <prospectacle> crutchy, if you are incorporated, then doing whatever you want with them is called embezzling
[14:55:11] <cykros> they were big on the Free Kevin campaign back in the '90s for kevin mitnick
[14:55:35] <prospectacle> you have to follow some extra rules and regulations if you're incorporated or you're breaking the law.
[14:55:36] <cykros> and oh, i guess they've only been around since 1995 or so from the copyright notice on the site
[14:55:37] <crutchy> isn't that the idea behind donating. donations don't usually come with conditions
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[14:56:04] <prospectacle> crutchy, the conditions are not imposed by the donators, but by the corporate charter and corporations law
[14:56:52] <crutchy> so if SN didn't have a charter, nobody would donate cos they don't know what it would be used for?
[14:57:08] <cykros> well..."nobody" is a strong word.
[14:57:22] <cykros> but it helps to make people feel better about their donations
[14:57:24] <crutchy> lol yeah fanboism is powerful
[14:57:37] <prospectacle> crutchy, some might, based on trust, but if their trust was betrayed that would just be tough. no laws would have been broken.
[14:57:53] <cykros> yea, which is exactly what happened with the occupy movement in many cases
[14:57:56] <prospectacle> crutchy, e.g. now NCommander couldn't legally look at donations and say "I think i'll use this to buy myself a house in my name"
[14:58:32] <crutchy> i prolly wouldn't care if he did, since my contribution would be insignificant
[14:58:41] <prospectacle> so besides the practical effect of how many donations are made due to that extra assurance, there's also the long term stability it imposes on all present and future diretors
[14:58:46] <crutchy> its not like i'm gunna give him thousands of dollars
[14:59:02] <crutchy> i guess it comes down to vested interest
[14:59:05] <prospectacle> crutchy, maybe not but the site as a whole will be different with these regulations being legally enforceable
[14:59:19] <prospectacle> crutchy, it means he also can't just sell it to DICE, for example
[14:59:21] <crutchy> if you have vested interest, you wanna make sure that interest is working for you
[14:59:43] <prospectacle> it means basically it's a constitutional republic instead of a dictatorship
[14:59:55] <crutchy> well, an oligarchy
[15:00:01] <crutchy> of directors :-P
[15:00:13] <prospectacle> yes well tomato tomahto :)
[15:00:42] <prospectacle> but yeah, it's got some enforced structure, instead of just the whim of those individuals who register the servers
[15:00:46] <crutchy> technically, DICE could offer each director a hefty sum and have them change the rules and bam SN -> SN beta
[15:01:06] <prospectacle> yes they could. It's not like it's invincible, it's just much, much stronger.
[15:01:15] <prospectacle> well, we'll see. But in theory...
[15:01:38] <crutchy> not that i think it would happen, but it seems like what might have gone on at /.
[15:01:58] <prospectacle> over time it can theoretically get much bigger and remain stable, and true to its founding ideals, in the process
[15:02:10] <prospectacle> I don't think slashdot was ever a public benefit corporation though
[15:02:21] <crutchy> the bigger it gets, the bigger the risk of being bought
[15:02:24] <prospectacle> I think it was always a for-profit entity, which can basically do whatever the shareholds think is profitable
[15:02:52] <prospectacle> there are different kinds of incorporation and SN delibrately chose one that would make selling out much harder
[15:03:14] <prospectacle> because otherwise we may as well all go back to /.
[15:03:21] <crutchy> mainly cos the bigger it gets, the bigger the price to buy directors off, but there is plenty of money out there to satisfy, and *everyone* has a price
[15:03:27] <cykros> idk, the bigger it is without being monetized, the more expensive it gets to run. idk many companies foolish enough these days to think that buying a site frequented by people whose religious mantra is "always use adblock plus" is a great buy
[15:03:40] <crutchy> lol
[15:03:48] <cykros> DICE only serves to illustrate why it's a poor buy.
[15:03:51] <crutchy> adblock edge blocks google ads too :-P
[15:04:12] <cykros> doesn't adblock plus as long as you opt out of the
[15:04:15] <cykros> "reasonable ads
[15:04:19] <cykros> ?
[15:04:27] <crutchy> people with lots of money don't always go after the smart buy, or their motives may not be obvious at the time
[15:04:30] <cykros> i can't say i recall seeing any
[15:04:37] <prospectacle> yeah, also by incorporating under some set of ideals, it makes it much riskier to bribe/dissolve/reincoroprate/buy because the users are here based on those founding ideals
[15:05:08] <cykros> that too. if we got bought out...well, we already fixed slashcode.
[15:05:19] <cykros> what's to stop us from just buying a new domain and throwing it up there?
[15:05:21] <prospectacle> imagine if SN had 100,000 users based on being incorporated as a public benefit company, andt hen one day they said "We're dissolving and reincorporating to make moeny and sell ads and your personal info"
[15:05:25] <prospectacle> people would leave
[15:05:28] <cykros> in fact, ncommander, can we get a bunch of money and just make a new site?
[15:05:29] <crutchy> dice took a risk playing the /. beta card, but they must have had a business reason to pursue it
[15:05:39] <prospectacle> lol
[15:05:57] <prospectacle> crutchy, true, but business reason != profitable result
[15:06:02] <cykros> eh, dice is killing off a few of their assets
[15:06:05] <cykros> for various reasons
[15:06:08] <cykros> see: freshmeat
[15:06:09] <prospectacle> Good chance they are just having a wild guess as to what will make money
[15:06:22] <prospectacle> with SN i think their subscription model will do well.
[15:06:34] <cykros> sometimes posting a loss makes good business sense
[15:06:44] <cykros> i suspect that's what's going on with slashdot, and is why they shuttered freshmeat.
[15:07:10] <prospectacle> It's kind of like (in a way) paying for your own web-hosting spacing, int that you're willing to pay becuase you know what "Free" would cost you (ads/spying/etc)
[15:07:22] <crutchy> prospectacle: profitable isn't always abvious either. i'm sure dice has /. beta in their 10 year business plan. there's always risk in business, but they wouldn't spend money if they didn't think there was a good chance of making profit
[15:07:55] <crutchy> i think /. beta was more about the mobile market
[15:08:16] <cykros> i think it was a hail mary. slashdot is an expensive site to run, and there's no way the ads cover it.
[15:08:30] <prospectacle> crutchy, good chance they think it will make a profit, but also good chance they don't really know, and are betting on a losing horse. IT happens all the time.
[15:08:33] <prospectacle> Remember isnack 2.0
[15:08:36] <cykros> if anything, they needed to get RID of us, to try to bring in people that don't use adblock :-P
[15:08:36] <prospectacle> idiots
[15:08:49] <cykros> and yea, the mobile market also means less adblock
[15:08:52] <crutchy> lol cykros. very true
[15:09:09] <cykros> because in many cases, an unrooted device is pretty hard up for good adblocking, without using something like privoxy
[15:09:25] <crutchy> most mobile browsers don't support any plugins
[15:09:26] <prospectacle> doesn't mobile firefox do adblock?
[15:09:34] <prospectacle> I think it does, let me check...
[15:09:37] <crutchy> don;t think so
[15:09:47] <crutchy> unless it has recently
[15:09:58] * cykros doesn't recall
[15:10:05] <cykros> i know there were limitations to adblock on unrooted devices
[15:10:13] <cykros> it may work fine in the browser, and not elsewhere
[15:10:13] <crutchy> i don't even think chrome does
[15:10:22] <prospectacle> Yep I thought so.
[15:10:24] <cykros> oh, that wouldn't surprise me
[15:10:30] <prospectacle> One of the first I downloaded after installing firefox on my phone
[15:10:34] <prospectacle> Ad-block plus
[15:10:40] <crutchy> firefox mobile has adblock?
[15:10:42] <cykros> it's not in the play store though, right?
[15:10:43] <crutchy> wow
[15:10:49] <prospectacle> firefox is the shit
[15:10:55] <crutchy> yeah
[15:11:06] * crutchy opens google play to install firefox :-P
[15:11:11] <prospectacle> I credit them with single-handedly saving the web from being owned by microsoft
[15:11:28] <crutchy> prospectacle, nod nod
[15:11:30] <prospectacle> and now from google
[15:11:40] <crutchy> lol that too
[15:11:56] <crutchy> though could also thank apple, but we wont :-P
[15:11:59] <prospectacle> I dunno if it's in the play store. let me check...
[15:12:30] <cykros> https://adblockplus.org assuming it isn't
[15:12:31] <monopoly> ^ 03Install Adblock Plus for Android
[15:12:45] <prospectacle> i think i installed it via firefox
[15:12:55] <prospectacle> firefox is in the play store, and then from firefox you browse plugins and find adblock
[15:13:19] <cykros> ahh, but that only blocks ads in firefox, right?
[15:13:31] <prospectacle> cykros, yes
[15:13:37] <cykros> https://adblockplus.org
[15:13:39] <monopoly> ^ 03About Adblock Plus for Android
[15:13:43] <prospectacle> interesting
[15:14:18] <crutchy> oh fuck yeah. its gott adblock edge :-D
[15:14:41] <prospectacle> I don't use my phone for much else than firefox (except calls and msg of course)
[15:14:46] <crutchy> prospectacle++
[15:14:46] <Bender> karma - prospectacle: 10
[15:14:55] <crutchy> thanks mate
[15:14:55] <prospectacle> So does adblock for android block ads in other apps, like in-app ads or something?
[15:15:05] <prospectacle> no worries
[15:15:06] <crutchy> i doubt it
[15:15:09] <cykros> it should.
[15:15:19] <cykros> at the connection level.
[15:15:29] <crutchy> oh you not talking about adblock edge
[15:15:32] <cykros> same way something like privoxy would work
[15:15:33] <crutchy> sry
[15:15:53] <prospectacle> i don't trust apps, as a rule. Some seem ok, but it's hard to tell. Why are they free, and why do they need so many permissions
[15:16:12] <cykros> prospectacle: there are ways to manually configure permissions on rooted devices
[15:16:19] <crutchy> i usually disable internet connection when i use apps. in many cases it disables advertising
[15:16:38] <crutchy> can play angry birds without ads just by disabling internet
[15:16:49] <prospectacle> good idea
[15:16:56] * cykros won't put angry birds anywhere near a device he owns
[15:17:01] <crutchy> hahaha
[15:17:02] <cykros> you did see that snowden file, right?
[15:17:03] <crutchy> awww
[15:17:19] <prospectacle> you can play angry birds browser version, or at least you used to be able to
[15:17:19] <crutchy> i bought the angry birds cartoon dvd for the kids
[15:17:33] <crutchy> 9 bucks at coles
[15:17:44] <prospectacle> Angry birds is basically just a skinned version of smash the castle or wahtever it was called
[15:17:48] <prospectacle> some obscure old flash game.
[15:17:58] <cykros> when it comes to games on my tablet, i have ingress, which is mostly the only one i play, and a couple i was checking out for their cyberpunk motif, and then a decent Go boardgame.
[15:17:59] <prospectacle> same mechanics, less amusing graphics.
[15:18:07] <crutchy> its very suited to touch interface though
[15:18:14] <cykros> (actually, one of the better applications to play Go with across all platforms i've found, when it comes to the AI anyway)
[15:18:42] <prospectacle> there must be a hundred browser-based go versions I would imagine? no need to install a true app if you don't want to.
[15:18:51] <crutchy> i don't usually play mobile games. i like old classics like starcraft/bw and civ2
[15:18:55] <cykros> and yea, i just said i don't play angry birds because of privacy reasons and that i play ingress.
[15:18:59] <cykros> don't think too hard about it.
[15:19:16] <prospectacle> true, that way lies madness
[15:20:29] <prospectacle> I don't think people identify ways that lead to madness enough these days. Maybe I'll start saying it more.
[15:20:41] <prospectacle> don't try to tailgate to make people speed up, that way lies madness
[15:20:46] <crutchy> i like madness
[15:20:59] <crutchy> so does gir :-P
[15:21:28] <crutchy> http://images4.fanpop.com
[15:22:06] <prospectacle> invader zim is under-rated
[15:22:31] <crutchy> zim is kinda annoying. gir should have his own show
[15:22:48] <crutchy> the floor sammich show, hosted by gir :-D
[15:22:57] <prospectacle> the doom-song hour
[15:23:20] <crutchy> hahaha that could be the intro theme song
[15:23:48] <crutchy> with a cupcake segment
[15:24:06] <crutchy> and a stree talk with the government man, come from the government
[15:24:15] <crutchy> s/ee/eet/
[15:24:15] <SedBot> <crutchy> and a street talk with the government man, come from the government
[15:24:24] <prospectacle> hey completely off topic, but if you have a boat and a crew of scurvy sea dogs who go and find lost treasure in international waters, are you allowed to keep it, or do you have to give it to some museum
[15:24:52] <prospectacle> I mean are there laws about that sort of thing?
[15:24:59] <crutchy> i think there is the law of the sea that australia is prolly signed up to
[15:25:03] <crutchy> treaty thing
[15:25:18] <prospectacle> yeah probably
[15:25:21] <crutchy> USA prolly isn;t though
[15:25:30] <crutchy> they just do whatever they want
[15:26:20] <crutchy> http://en.wikipedia.org
[15:26:21] <monopoly> ^ 04Wiki: 03United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea: The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), also called the Law of the Sea Convention or the Law of the Sea treaty, is the international agreement t...
[15:26:55] <crutchy> lol surprise surprise USA has not ratified
[15:27:05] <prospectacle> hmm, "Jetsam are goods that were thrown off a ship, which was in danger, to save the ship. Flotsam are goods that floated off the ship while it was in danger or when it sank."
[15:27:14] <prospectacle> now I know what flotsam and jetsam are.
[15:27:18] <prospectacle> thanks wikipedia
[15:27:25] <prospectacle> http://en.wikipedia.org
[15:27:26] <monopoly> ^ 04Wiki: 03Marine salvage: Marine salvage is the process of recovering a ship, its cargo, or other property after a shipwreck. Salvage encompasses towing, refloating a sunken or grounded vessel...
[15:27:28] <crutchy> aren't they the dogs off the jetsons
[15:27:48] <crutchy> or the eels from the little mermaid cartoon movie?
[15:27:52] <crutchy> i can;t remember
[15:28:16] <crutchy> there was a big kerfuffle about salvage rights to the titanic
[15:28:19] <prospectacle> maybe roger ramjet's cousins
[15:28:33] <crutchy> some american company named titanic inc reckons it owns the titanic
[15:28:58] <prospectacle> american companies are the worst
[15:29:05] <crutchy> cos some court in the USA decided so
[15:29:06] <prospectacle> "Yeah copyright should last 10 million years"
[15:29:16] <prospectacle> govt: "Ok no worries"
[15:29:20] <crutchy> lol
[15:29:26] <crutchy> yeah its a worry
[15:30:11] <prospectacle> "our seeds escaped someone's plants and fertilised your plants. we own your plants now"
[15:30:21] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Tiny Walking Robots Powered by Muscle Cells - http://sylnt.us - these-robots-are-made-for-walking
[15:32:06] <crutchy> the american companies in bed with the american government are the worst
[15:32:21] <prospectacle> you said it
[15:32:44] <prospectacle> an unholy alliance
[15:32:45] <crutchy> competition? what the hell is that? here you go senator have some green stuff and you can disappear that competitor for me eh
[15:33:41] <crutchy> wouldn't be so bad except the stupid corrupt senator says 'yeah sure no worries'
[15:34:14] <AndyTheAbsurd> that's why I gave money to these guys: http://soylentnews.org
[15:34:15] <monopoly> ^ 03Lessig's Mayday PAC makes goal: SoylentNews Submission
[15:34:18] <prospectacle> Looking at wikipedia it looks like you can't just keep old treasure you find at sea. There goes my future career as a sea-faring treasure hunter
[15:34:42] <crutchy> its only illegal if you get caught :-P
[15:35:14] <prospectacle> AndyTheAbsurd, I've heard about this PAC but never looked into it, thanks for the tip, I'll check it out
[15:35:59] <crutchy> PACs are part of the problem. they are a vehicle for buying politicians
[15:36:46] <crutchy> legalized bribery
[15:36:52] <AndyTheAbsurd> crutchy: this PAC has a goal of changing the rules so that PACs aren't allowed.
[15:36:52] <prospectacle> crutchy, yeah I think this mayday PAC is designed to use the PAC system against itself, like how the GPL uses copyright against itself
[15:37:21] <crutchy> AndyTheAbsurd: isn't there an xkcd that would be relevant here?
[15:37:57] <AndyTheAbsurd> Isn't there *always* an xkcd comic that would be relevant?
[15:37:59] <crutchy> sounds like a worthy cause though, even if i'm sure if i could trust it
[15:38:02] <crutchy> lol
[15:38:04] <crutchy> true
[15:38:27] <crutchy> *even if i'm *not* sure if i could trust it
[15:38:54] <crutchy> seems like paying the enemy to kill itself
[15:39:37] <AndyTheAbsurd> paying your side's mercenaries to kill the other side's mercenaries has been done throughout history
[15:40:02] <prospectacle> true, but on the other hand working within the current system to change it seems to be more effective in many cases.
[15:40:11] <crutchy> true, but i'm not sure this pac counts as 'my sides mercinaries'
[15:40:28] <prospectacle> It's like bad voting laws that exclude minorities, etc. The best way to change them is still to get elected according to those bad laws.
[15:40:37] <prospectacle> I mean that is what's happened in the past
[15:40:44] <crutchy> i'm sure they will be more than happy to take money under the guise of a good cause
[15:40:55] <crutchy> its kinda like the whole incorporation thing
[15:41:13] <crutchy> is there a charter that dictates what they do with the money?
[15:41:36] <crutchy> hmm i guess if they are a PAC there prolly is
[15:42:14] <prospectacle> at the end of Fast 5 they said not to attempt any of the scenes portrayed herein as they are dangerous
[15:42:26] <prospectacle> What's the point of watching a movie if you can learn sweet new moves for your own life
[15:43:19] * prospectacle switches to breaking bad
[15:43:31] <crutchy> same as if you tell your kids not do run in the house with socks on floorboards cos they will trip and hurt theirselfs
[15:44:06] * crutchy apparently likes talking to walls in the same manner as he talks to his kids
[15:44:07] <prospectacle> crutchy, true, but I wouldn't put on a whole two hour entertainment piece based entirely around how awesome it is to run with socks on floorboards first.
[15:44:27] <crutchy> my kids would prolly love it :-P
[15:44:40] <crutchy> and millions of other kids
[15:44:50] <crutchy> it could be a mega money spinner
[15:45:01] <prospectacle> the box office hit of the summer, no doubt
[15:45:06] <crutchy> kids version of who dares wins :-P
[15:45:34] <prospectacle> now breaking bad's on on abc2, here's a show that can teach me sweet moves for real life
[15:46:06] * crutchy prefers fat pizza for learning sweet moves :-P
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[15:46:51] <prospectacle> like how to work in a car wash, for example
[15:50:25] <crutchy> or how to pick up chicks man :-P
[15:50:50] <crutchy> s/how to/how to like/
[15:50:50] <SedBot> <crutchy> or how to like pick up chicks man :-P
[15:51:07] <prospectacle> I haven't seen much fat pizza, but not much picking up in breaking bad. I guess it's a bit of an omission on their part
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[16:02:53] <prospectacle> See you later. Hope your weekend is pleasant
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[16:12:48] <crutchy> cya prospectacle. have a good w/e
[16:12:56] <crutchy> wb konomi
[16:20:51] <Konomi> ty
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[17:26:46] <crutchy> coffee++
[17:26:46] <Bender> karma - coffee: 322
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[17:43:37] <Konomi> caffeine++
[17:43:37] <Bender> karma - caffeine: 11
[17:44:57] <Popeidol> icecream++
[17:44:57] <Bender> karma - icecream: 1
[17:51:07] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Don't Learn to Code. Learn to Think. - http://sylnt.us - you-can-only-choose-one
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[22:31:25] <chromas> Bender: s/-M/-Butt-M/
[22:31:25] <SedBot> <chromas> <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Windows 9 Will Morph to Fit the Device It's Running On - http://sylnt.us - You-Can-Do-Butt-Magic
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