#Soylent | Logs for 2014-07-04

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[00:00:47] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Russian Tablet Beats Hackers by Physically Disconnecting Modules - http://sylnt.us - just-unplug-the-thing
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[00:27:21] <chromas> From the where's-a-spark-plug-when-I-need-it dept
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[01:21:45] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Playing Video Games To Explore Sustainability Concepts - http://sylnt.us - video-games-are-lerning
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[02:19:07] * n1 bangs head on desk
[02:28:37] <SpallsHurgenson> gaddurnit, *MORE* lightning?
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[02:50:54] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - If You Read Boing Boing or Linux Journal, The NSA is Watching You - http://sylnt.us - being-watched
[03:07:23] <NCommander> ITS OFFICIAL, I HAVE AN APARTMENT
[03:07:27] <NCommander> YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
[03:08:21] <chromas> woohoo!
[03:08:50] <NCommander> I'm hugely happy about this :-)
[03:11:15] <juggs> grats NC
[03:12:37] <NCommander> Next thing is to go to the DMV and get my license changed over
[03:12:51] <NCommander> Once I have an Alaskan drivers license, I can officially state I'm from Alaska :-)
[03:13:19] <NCommander> Only real downside is metered internet
[03:13:24] <juggs> what inspired you to move to that ice box?
[03:13:31] <NCommander> (expected but still annoying)
[03:13:40] <NCommander> juggs, I have always <3 Alaska, even before I ever visited
[03:13:47] <NCommander> Something about this place is just magical
[03:14:22] <juggs> ohhh - metered internet is a downer, I've been existing on 3GB a month for the last 9 months... that's... um.. challenging
[03:14:56] <NCommander> juggs, 100 GiB cap for $75.00 USD :-/
[03:15:40] <juggs> ouch. But then all US broadband prices seem to me
[03:16:00] <juggs> *seem expensive
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[03:30:06] <NCommander> juggs, where do you live and how much do you pay?
[03:33:33] <juggs> NCommander, UK. I was paying 20 pm for unlimited 80Mbps down / 20 Mbps up. The last few months I've been stuck with crappy cellular broadband (3G/3G+) which is way more pricey.
[03:34:15] <juggs> 20GBP = ~35 USD
[03:47:36] <NCommander> juggs, envy. Then again, GCI likes taking folks to the cleaners
[03:50:37] <juggs> NCommander, it's just luck. Our ov't went nutzoid some years back on insisting on competition in the BB and telephony market - dismantled the monolithic BT monopoly and put a relatively effective regulatory body in place. It's still not perfect but it keeps prices sane.
[03:50:57] <juggs> s/ov/gov/
[03:50:57] <SedBot> <juggs> NCommander, it's just luck. Our gov't went nutzoid some years back on insisting on competition in the BB and telephony market - dismantled the monolithic BT monopoly and put a relatively effective regulatory body in place. It's still not perfect but it keeps prices sane.
[03:54:51] <Popeidol> data caps are great for getting community spirit going
[03:55:14] <Popeidol> not so great for using the internet in a convenient way though
[03:55:36] <juggs> how so? ref community spirit that is
[03:56:26] <Popeidol> if everybody can only download a certain amount, the 'download once and share locally' approach is a lot more viable
[03:57:45] <Popeidol> the local ISPs here used to have a peering agreement, all traffic between their networks was free within the state but everything else was capped pretty low
[03:57:46] <juggs> ahh... an improvised and very localised CDN node after a fashion :D
[03:58:16] <Popeidol> result: city-wide bittorrent trackers and DC hubs, each with thousands of users
[03:58:30] <juggs> crikey, how convoluted can they make things just to squeeze a few more bucks :(
[03:59:18] <Popeidol> at university we also strung cat5 between windows of residential buildings to link filsharing networks, since anything that left the building was counted against your quota
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[04:00:44] <juggs> haha nice. Is that kind of thing still going on? Sounds a little late '90s or early '00s to me
[04:01:43] <Popeidol> it was around 04-05, I'm not sure if it's still going on
[04:02:23] <Popeidol> capping is still the norm here though due to australia not having amazing international bandwidth
[04:08:32] <juggs> population density seems to correlate with observed national broadband pricing and caps - understandable really. I believe the US has issues with lack of competition thrown in to make things worse. What's it like in Aus? Are whole areas / regions only served by only 1 or 2 providers?
[04:10:22] <juggs> And yeh, I'm not quite sure how the UK ended up with such a ludicrous amount of international capacity in all directions. Probably some artifact of the over-sized financial sphere clout it holds.
[04:12:26] <Popeidol> we're a bit of a middle ground. we also privatised the national telco and then heavily regulared it, so that it has to wholesale its lines at reasonable prices
[04:13:16] <Popeidol> so in terms of DSL it's pretty good and you can choose between dozens of companies. when you get to cable or fibre though, the regulation is a different story.
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[04:15:30] <juggs> ahh, same model as the UK then. We even regulated that BT Openreach (the infrastructure arm post dismemberment) had to allow other operators to install their own DSLAMs and MSANs in their telephone exchanges, and allow other ops to run their own fibres to the Openreach active street cabinets for VDSL services (not many have taken up that option though - damn pricey blowing fibre to every street cab I expect!)
[04:15:34] <Popeidol> The last government started building a national fibre network which was going to operate wholesale-only to other ISPs, but the current government killed that and is rolling out a mixed bag of technology that's going to be interesting
[04:16:41] <Popeidol> yeah, we also had other ISPS getting full exchange access, which led to the incumbent telco having the slowest DSL service for more than a few years
[04:17:16] <juggs> Yeh, we ended up with a mixed bag of fibre to the cabinet, fibre to the premise and some wireless and satellite in fill for the ~really~ out of the way places.
[04:18:07] <Popeidol> the current government keeps using england as an example of how fibre to the cabinet is a good idea, but don't mention that BT is not a fan of it anymore
[04:20:02] <juggs> Umm... BT were unshackled, they could have deployed any technology they liked. The cynical would say they deployed mostly fibre to the cabinet in hopes that their would be a another trough to feed at in a few years to upgrade it all to fibre to the premises.
[04:20:43] <Popeidol> that is essentially the situation we are in right now
[04:21:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - "Evolution = Satan" in High School Biology - http://sylnt.us - certified-misinformation
[04:21:35] <Popeidol> the problem is that the choice of technologies is being made at a political level, not by the company that is going to have to run it
[04:22:24] <juggs> I'm not sure an english model is necessarily relevant to Aus - just the size and population density factors don't seem to align. Although I guess a lot of you guys are all huddled in a few areas where it may apply - but the rest of that vast expanse of low population - gawd knows how you serve them economically.
[04:22:57] <Popeidol> the cities can be tackled in the same was any other city, but outside of that it's some fixed wireless and mostly satellite
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[04:25:48] <Popeidol> for example: the capital city of my state has 1.5 million people. the second-biggest city has 68 thousand.
[04:26:52] <juggs> fibre to the cabinet does make a lot of sense as a stop gap. Sure it's a lot of expense to lay conduit and blow fibre out to them, but it's a vast magnitude less that trying to fibre up every property/ So with a limited pot of cash, it makes sens to conduit the to the cabs and sling in a VDSL DSLAM. Then in time, blow a bit more fibre down the same conduits if necessary and sling in a fibre splitter and supply fibre to the premises from the same cab
[04:26:52] <juggs> locations while retiring VDSL.
[04:27:16] <juggs> good grief, typo hell ^^
[04:28:40] <Popeidol> the current plan actually says they're going to roll fibre to the premises, though. they cancelled the existing fibre to the premises plans (that were partially rolled out), and have replaced a lot of them with fibre to the cabinet...which they say they'll replace with fibre to the home in the 2020's.
[04:30:55] <Popeidol> I have nothing against fibre to the cabinet in theory, it's just that in this case the justification doesn't add up at all
[04:32:43] <juggs> Let me get this right. Your national telco was privatised at some point and now the politicos are trying to dictate what technology must be used? That doesn't seem right or proper. Here we privatised and the current political push is "we'll provide a pot of N much cash to provide N% of properties with > N Mbps by $DATE" - and it is subject to EU competition controls. But it is very much up to the telcos to determine what technology to deploy.
[04:33:59] <Popeidol> they're setting up a different company, which will be wholesale and infrastructure only. it will buy a lot of infrastructure from the formerly-nationalised telco who will then be competing on an even playing field with the other telcos.
[04:35:51] <Popeidol> but yeah, it's horrifically politicised. It kind of ruined things, and the fighting and starting-the-whole-thing-from scratch will delay everything by years.
[04:41:03] <juggs> BT was originally split 2 ways - BT Wholesale and BT Retail - the former responsible for infrastructure and selling to the channel (ISPs), the latter to domestic an commercial end users. When LLU came about BT Wholesale was split to separate the infrastructure from the channel sales which hived of BT Openreach as the infrastructure arm. BT Openreach have to offer the same terms to LLU operators as they do to BT Wholesale. It's all Chinese walls with
[04:41:03] <juggs> in the BT structure of course but they do take it pretty seriously under the jack boot of the regulator. It sounds like you guys are doing that 2nd phase now.
[04:42:03] <Popeidol> we are. The telco was meant to be split up when it was originally privatised, but well...the government wasn't quite as firm with them as they meant to be.
[04:46:44] <juggs> I'm not sure there is a simple solution really. Having privatised the monopoly, then forced it to segregate its business, it would be politically unthinkable to turn around and say "oh, we're re-nationalising all the juicy infrastructure bit you've invested in all these years" - I could see our Labour party of the 1980s trying it, but not the Conservatives - there would be shareholder revolt. And these days they've moved so far toward each other in
[04:46:44] <juggs> political terms it's hard to tell one from the other. << That seems to be a recurring theme in many countries.
[04:49:03] <Popeidol> relevent reading for the current issue: http://delimiter.com.au
[04:49:05] <monopoly> ↳ 03The NBN is in a regulatory hole: Time to stop digging - Delimiter: As the saying goes, when you are in a hole, stop digging. The NBN is looking like a large pit, and at present, everyone is digging in deeper.
[04:50:53] * juggs reads
[04:52:29] <juggs> frickin acronyms! You use fibre-to-the-node (FTTN) and fibre-to-the-basement (FTTB), we use fibre-to-the-cabinet (FTTC) and fibre-to-the-premises (FTTP)... /me reads on
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[04:57:36] <juggs> Oh my, you really are in more of a mess than here. NBN Co offering to supply products it can't actually provide in a given location leaving the suppliers and end-user to figure it out - that would have Openreach reaching for their ankles for the regulator's barb-wire insertion device here. / me reads on
[05:00:29] <juggs> interesting read.
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[05:05:10] <juggs> Having no dog in the fight and just the scantest of knowledge, it smells like the result of many additive regulations resulting in a complete pig's ear as every clause eventually ends up with an "unless" or "except in the case of X, Y or AB on a Sunday in July" rider. There does come a point where it all just needs chucking the shredder, take stock and re-plan. Of course with a gov't involved that process will take years,
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[05:07:13] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v paulej72] by juggler
[05:08:55] <paulej72> Hello
[05:09:03] <Popeidol> yeah, the mixed-technologies thing is a real problem
[05:09:28] <juggs> hi paulej72
[05:09:29] <Popeidol> because their mandate is to provide minimum speeds to most of australia, but the mix of technologies means they can no longer guarantee that
[05:12:43] <juggs> well then their feet need to be held to the fire if they agreed that N AUSD was incentive enough to do so. If they chose the wrong technology to do so, tough, that was their decision, they're the experts in the industry so should know what they are doing. Time for the shareholders to take a hit. c'est la vie for a private company, they can't have it all ways. Sounds like they just want the trough refilling.
[05:15:33] <Popeidol> unfortunately the government has chosen the technology in this case. the company was started under the assumption they would have fibre, satellite, and fixed wireless....and now the government has forcibly added in cable and FTTN/FTTB.
[05:15:54] <Popeidol> in general the NBN company has been handling things at least okay, it's just that the requirements keep changing on them
[05:16:19] <NCommander> my brain has been seizing up
[05:16:23] <NCommander> argh
[05:17:18] <juggs> Ahh, that puts a different slant on it.The gov't has no place dictating technologies unless they are prepared to stump up the dollars for their moving target.
[05:18:20] <paulej72> NCommander: They make anti-seize
[05:18:20] * juggs applies penetrating fluid to NCommander's critical functions. Leave that overnight to soak in, should be fine come morning.
[05:18:27] <paulej72> You a
[05:18:53] <paulej72> Can get it at the local hardware store.
[05:19:02] * juggs leaves a tube of copper grease on the night stand on the way out
[05:19:39] <Bytram> Hi folks! How's thing?
[05:19:50] <Bytram> s/thing/things/
[05:19:50] <SedBot> <Bytram> Hi folks! How's things?
[05:20:34] <paulej72> Thing was ok as I am only god for one now
[05:20:48] <paulej72> Good
[05:20:59] <Bytram> good god!
[05:21:01] <Bytram> =)
[05:21:10] <juggs> NCommander has seized up apparently, but otherwise I have no idea, I'm just the blithering verbose fool in the channel :D
[05:21:28] <paulej72> Damn iPad keyboard
[05:21:34] <Bytram> NCommander: btw, hope you're feeling better from the exercise the other day!
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[05:22:24] <paulej72> My issue is I have no scroll back
[05:22:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72: s/keyboard//
[05:23:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, this is why you need an actual COMPUTER for some things.
[05:24:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> ipad is great for the pr0n but not so much for irc or doing things over ssh
[05:24:16] <paulej72> I love my iPad for web surfing while watching tv. Sucks for irc as there are no good clients
[05:24:32] <Bytram> paulej72: you're holding it wrong. :/
[05:24:44] <paulej72> I did install ssh ans
[05:25:16] <juggs> paulej72, ZNC on a bouncer box - tis most marvellous. ZNC stays in channel with configurable scrollback retained. You connect your IRC client to your ZNC and boom ZNC replays your configured X lines of scrollback regardless of client.
[05:25:36] <paulej72> And rep clients and used them as a test, but it would be for emrengices.
[05:26:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> cps would still be better by finding a coffee free hotspot to use your laptop from
[05:26:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> even counting the looking for one time
[05:26:51] <paulej72> juggs: I am on znc, but it must have son thing set wrong as I lost my scroll back when I looted off my work machine
[05:27:36] <chromas> it disconnected
[05:27:44] <paulej72> Rep should be rdp above
[05:28:07] <juggs> well that would explain it chromas
[05:28:28] * TheMightyBuzzard yawns
[05:28:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> aight, i am sleep now. nite folks.
[05:29:31] * juggs wonders if he flies in lazy circles over convenient thermals while he sleeps
[05:31:44] <paulej72> I am out too due to low battery
[05:32:29] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: bye! (And just when I *think* I'm mostly done with writing a UTF-8 encoder!)
[05:32:35] <Bytram> paulej72: have a good night!
[05:34:13] <juggs> I'm just wondering what paulej72 looted off his work machine :D
[05:35:11] * paulej72 logged out smartass :)
[05:36:07] <juggs> I know I know - the joys of audio corrupt
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[05:37:54] * NCommander plugs in paulej72
[05:40:10] <paulej72> ok I am plugged in
[05:41:35] <Bytram> well, my brains a sputtering... time to call it a day.
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[05:47:50] <juggs> I think there is a self replicating virus doing the rounds
[05:49:53] <chromas> The cure is 40,000 spins on meatspin
[05:51:40] <juggs> I had to look up "meatspin", not a phrase I had come across before and now I have not one I wish to explore further!
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[05:52:41] <Bytram|away> g'night everyone!
[05:52:59] <juggs> g'night Bytram|away
[05:53:21] <Bytram|away> juggs: cyal8r
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[06:20:29] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Six Months After Legalizing Marijuana, Two Big Things have Happened in Colorado - http://sylnt.us - tax-not-war
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[06:33:42] <chromas> Bender: s/ ta*ar/ civil-war...on-drugs/
[06:34:36] <chromas> From the globs != regex dept
[06:38:23] <juggs> isn't . an alternative delimiter in regex? You probably need a cargo boatload full of escape characters in there.
[06:40:45] <swiss> laserdiscs are so weird :/
[06:40:55] <swiss> trying to get CC, apparently i'll need an external cc decoder
[06:41:10] <juggs> what is CC?
[06:41:18] <swiss> closed captioning
[06:42:05] <juggs> *grunt* *oooh yeah baby* *uhhh* *mmmm* that should do it
[06:51:09] <NCommander> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[06:51:12] * NCommander fucking dances
[06:51:15] * NCommander just got awesome news
[06:52:35] <juggs> you get a stunning, no hassle fuck buddy thrown in with the apartment for no additional service charge?
[06:55:30] * JamesNZ breaks out the champagne in anticipation
[06:56:15] * juggs does the rounds with the canapes
[06:57:03] * juggs necks the champagne
[06:57:22] <NCommander> JamesNZ, juggs: we just got our articles of incorporation certified, we're officially incorporated :-)
[06:57:25] * juggs drops the sanapes on the floor
[06:57:32] * NCommander is going to bend the rule about site news on holidays/weekends, and run a post
[06:57:40] <NCommander> July 4th is officially our incorporation day :-)
[06:57:48] <JamesNZ> NCommander: Yippee \o/ :D
[06:58:41] <juggs> Incorporated as what what? non-profit?
[07:00:12] <NCommander> juggs, Public Benefit Corporation
[07:00:29] <NCommander> (middle ground between a NFP and a B-corp)
[07:00:34] <NCommander> er, NFP and a tradition for profit
[07:01:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's the soylent one not the libre one, yeah?
[07:01:29] <NCommander> Yeah
[07:01:31] <NCommander> AHAHAH
[07:01:38] <NCommander> The documents officially state July 4th as our incorporation date
[07:01:41] <NCommander> THat's fucking awesome
[07:01:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> wootage
[07:02:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, now we GOTTA keep this bitch going just for the awesome anniversary.
[07:02:31] <juggs> Indeed the news should be pronounced immediately, send out the town criers, bells and all. Isn't 4th July something of a notable day in the US... maybe someone in the incorporation department of all-seeing overage everything had a sense of humour.
[07:04:00] <NCommander> juggs, I think so as well
[07:04:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, PBF can legally accept donated labor, yes?
[07:04:54] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I don't believe its a problem
[07:05:42] <juggs> NCommander, I have no idea what a B-corp is or what lies in the grounds between there and NFP - probably Mordor on steroids with lawyers knowing the US :D I'm surprised you've maneged to incorporate so fast.
[07:06:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> easy to get around for us code monkeys regardless. "we're not working for SN, we're working on the OSS project as a hobby."
[07:07:44] <NCommander> juggs, I did a huge writeup on it, let me dig it up
[07:08:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> anyway. woke up to read the news on account of jackasses who felt the need to celebrate right as soon as the 4th started. going back to bed.
[07:09:46] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, juggs http://soylentnews.org
[07:09:47] <monopoly> ↳ 04SN farticle 03 Status Update: Incorporation Report 04(95 comments): NOTE: For those who aren't interested in "meta" articles, just ignore this one. There's an update coming down the pipe to allow people to filter out content from ...
[07:12:24] <juggs> NCommander, have a good 4th. I'd buy you a beer or 10 were I there, solely for the effort so far :D
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[09:20:45] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Exorcists says Vatican Approval is Cause for Joy for those who Suffer Demons - http://sylnt.us - voices-disagree
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[10:02:21] <crutchy> coffee++
[10:02:21] <Bender> karma - coffee: 317
[10:15:08] <crutchy> ~time dc
[10:15:09] <exec> [Google] 4:15am Friday (EDT) - Time in Washington, DC, USA
[10:18:32] <JamesNZ> regex--
[10:18:32] <Bender> karma - regex: -1
[10:25:35] <crutchy> regex--
[10:25:35] <Bender> karma - regex: -2
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[10:28:26] <crutchy> hi aqu4
[10:28:32] <crutchy> hi JamesNZ
[10:30:17] <JamesNZ> Evening crutchy \o How's it going?
[10:31:07] <crutchy> end of a long week
[10:31:08] <crutchy> u?
[10:33:24] <JamesNZ> Getting uber-frustrated with C++/boost's regex lib :P
[10:33:53] <crutchy> regex blows in any/every language i recon
[10:34:48] <JamesNZ> Aye. Though the problem is that even the examples from the boost docs don't compile on my machine.
[10:36:52] <crutchy> its like one of those exception rules... "thou shalt write code that is readable and maintainable, except if you use regex you must make it as convoluted as possible"
[10:38:13] <JamesNZ> Hah XD Regex's concise seems to be its best and worst feature.
[10:38:23] <crutchy> i'm sure the monks would say its easy once you learn it
[10:38:38] <crutchy> i'm just not patient enough to persist
[10:39:10] <JamesNZ> Same here. I basically just mess around on regex101.com until I get something that works :P
[10:39:59] <ar> coffee--
[10:39:59] <Bender> karma - coffee: 316
[10:40:06] <ar> regex++
[10:40:07] <Bender> karma - regex: -1
[10:40:37] <crutchy> i avoid regex... instead using other functions that might be more lines and lack regex efficiency, but at least in 2 years ii'll be able to figure out what i was trying to do
[10:41:05] <ar> yeah, when there's a proper parser, use it instead of regexes
[10:41:22] <ar> but they're sometimes the quickest solution
[10:41:35] <JamesNZ> True.
[10:42:41] <ar> regex++
[10:42:41] <Bender> karma - regex: 0
[10:42:46] <crutchy> i prolly overuse things like php's explode function
[10:42:47] <ar> coffee--
[10:42:47] <Bender> karma - coffee: 315
[10:42:57] <crutchy> explode++
[10:42:57] <Bender> karma - explode: 1
[10:43:05] <ar> >i prolly overuse things like php
[10:43:15] <ar> it should end like that
[10:43:21] <ar> ;)
[10:43:35] <crutchy> "but they're sometimes the quickest solution"
[10:43:48] <crutchy> but [php is] sometimes the quickest solution
[10:44:21] <crutchy> :-P
[10:44:32] <ar> but there are proper programming languages which should be used instead of php
[10:44:50] <ar> and proper parsers for incoming data aren't always available
[10:45:19] <crutchy> php's string functions are one its its drawcards
[10:45:43] <crutchy> explode and strtok
[10:45:49] <crutchy> amongst others
[10:46:49] <crutchy> very quick to extract stuff out of streams from anywhere
[10:47:20] <crutchy> quick as in to code
[10:50:22] <crutchy> to make a socket use ssl, i just add "ss://" to the start of the host, no need to worry about certs or anything
[10:50:29] <crutchy> *ssl
[10:51:00] <crutchy> no doubt other scripting languages have that sort of thing too. php is just one of them
[11:08:17] -!- Subsentient [Subsentient!~WhiteRat@universe2.us/Subsentient] has joined #Soylent
[11:12:08] <crutchy> hi Subsentient
[11:13:27] <Subsentient> hi crutchy
[11:13:47] <crutchy> up early
[11:15:14] <Subsentient> ehh not so much
[11:15:18] <Subsentient> $time MS
[11:15:18] <aqu4> Fri 2014-07-04 11:15:05 PM MS
[11:15:19] <Subsentient> $time MSST
[11:15:19] <aqu4> Fri 2014-07-04 11:15:07 PM MSST
[11:15:27] <Subsentient> ffk
[11:15:30] <Subsentient> $time MST
[11:15:30] <aqu4> Fri 2014-07-04 04:15:17 PM MST
[11:15:37] <Subsentient> the fuck
[11:16:31] <Subsentient> $time MST
[11:16:31] <aqu4> Fri 2014-07-04 02:16:32 AM MST
[11:16:35] <Subsentient> there
[11:16:38] <Subsentient> crutchy: there
[11:16:40] <Subsentient> $time MST
[11:16:41] <aqu4> Fri 2014-07-04 02:16:41 AM MST
[11:16:46] <Subsentient> I am up LATE.
[11:17:16] <crutchy> ~time the moon
[11:17:18] <exec> location not found - UTC timestamp: Friday, 4 July 2014, 09:17:18 am
[11:17:36] <crutchy> ~time uranus
[11:17:38] <exec> location not found - UTC timestamp: Friday, 4 July 2014, 09:17:38 am
[11:17:55] <crutchy> ~time mount everest
[11:17:57] <exec> location not found - UTC timestamp: Friday, 4 July 2014, 09:17:57 am
[11:18:00] <crutchy> aww
[11:22:24] <crutchy> ~time america
[11:22:26] <exec> [Google] 5:22am Friday (EDT) - Time in Washington, DC, USA
[11:30:22] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Most Ambitious AI Project in the World - 30 years old - http://sylnt.us - skynet-3.1
[11:43:22] -!- JamesNZ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[12:00:45] -!- Subsentient1 [Subsentient1!~WhiteRat@216.161.ghn.ql] has joined #Soylent
[12:03:47] -!- Subsentient has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[12:03:58] Subsentient1 is now known as Subsentient
[12:04:13] -!- Subsentient has quit [Changing host]
[12:04:13] -!- Subsentient [Subsentient!~WhiteRat@universe2.us/Subsentient] has joined #Soylent
[12:15:24] -!- Paradigm [Paradigm!~5e8e4901@94.142.zk.v] has joined #Soylent
[12:15:36] <Subsentient> Paradigm: Hairut?
[12:16:25] <Subsentient> Axshiom?
[12:16:36] <Subsentient> Or just a random nick?
[13:25:36] <crutchy> its a new nick here i think
[13:25:43] <crutchy> coffee++
[13:25:43] <Bender> karma - coffee: 316
[13:25:52] <crutchy> !uid
[13:25:52] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 4512, owned by PizzaRollPlinkett
[13:26:00] <crutchy> lol
[13:26:06] <crutchy> oky doky
[13:26:20] <ar> !uid arachnist
[13:26:20] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 4512, owned by PizzaRollPlinkett
[13:26:37] <crutchy> !help
[13:26:37] <Bender> documentation for jsonbot can be found at http://jsonbot.org
[13:26:41] <Bender> see !list for loaded plugins and "!help plugin" for help on the plugin.
[13:26:54] <crutchy> !help uid
[13:26:54] <Bender> can't find help on uid
[13:26:56] -!- Paradigm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[13:27:08] <crutchy> !list
[13:27:08] <Bender> available plugins: admin, cfg, chan, chatlog, core, fleet, grabquote, ignore, irc, karma, koffie, lod, markov, more, plug, relay, soylentrss, sylnt, todo, twitter, uidchecker, urlinfo, user
[13:27:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[13:27:12] <Bender> karma - coffee: 317
[13:27:20] <crutchy> mornin TheMightyBuzzard
[13:27:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> tis indeed
[13:27:33] <crutchy> !help cokkie
[13:27:33] <Bender> can't find help on cokkie
[13:27:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> cigarette++
[13:27:35] <Bender> karma - cigarette: 3
[13:27:36] <crutchy> lol
[13:27:40] <crutchy> that was a bad typo
[13:27:48] <crutchy> !help koffie
[13:27:48] <Bender> help on koffie:  arguments: [<nick>] - get/give a coffee
[13:27:52] <Bender> permissions: USER - location: jsb.plugs.common.koffie - examples: koffie
[13:28:10] <crutchy> !koffie TheMightyBuzzard
[13:28:10] * Bender schenkt je een kopje koffie van gisteren in voor TheMightyBuzzard
[13:28:17] <crutchy> wtf
[13:28:39] <crutchy> ~translate de schenkt je een kopje koffie van gisteren in voor TheMightyBuzzard
[13:28:41] <exec> [google translate] schenkt je een kopje koffie van gisteren in voor TheMightyBuzzard (auto -> de): class="gbmc gbsb gbsbis"><div class="gbmt gbmh"></div><div class=gbsbt></div><div class=gbsbb>
[13:28:51] <crutchy> pfft forgot about that
[13:28:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> oi, i want my coffee speaking englits on the 4th
[13:29:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> dude, broke
[13:29:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> huh, mine not workin either
[13:30:15] <crutchy> the bastards changed the page source
[13:30:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> fuckers
[13:30:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Cisco Thinks it's Still the 1980s: Backdoor 'Support Rep' Access Hardcoded in UDM Software - http://sylnt.us - certified-by-cisco
[13:31:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> huh, my bing one only does one word
[13:33:52] * TheMightyBuzzard refuses to fix the google one
[13:34:06] -!- Tachyon_ [Tachyon_!Tachyon@hollhb.kolej.mff.cuni.cz] has joined #Soylent
[13:34:56] -!- Tachyon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[13:35:43] <crutchy> ~translate de schenkt je een kopje koffie van gisteren in voor TheMightyBuzzard
[13:35:45] <exec> [google translate] schenkt je een kopje koffie van gisteren in voor TheMightyBuzzard (auto -> de): gibt Ihnen eine Tasse Kaffee gestern fr TheMightyBuzzard
[13:35:56] <crutchy> ~translate en schenkt je een kopje koffie van gisteren in voor TheMightyBuzzard
[13:35:57] <exec> [google translate] schenkt je een kopje koffie van gisteren in voor TheMightyBuzzard (auto -> en): gives you a cup of coffee yesterday for TheMightyBuzzard
[13:36:06] <chromas> crutchy: pizza roll pinkett is a reference to red letter media
[13:36:07] <crutchy> lol kinda makes sense
[13:36:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> yesterday is unhelpful
[13:36:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> want fresh coffee
[13:39:19] <crutchy> ~translate en themightybuzzard gibt eine frische Tasse Kaffee
[13:39:21] <exec> [google translate] themightybuzzard gibt eine frische Tasse Kaffee (auto -> en): themightybuzzard are a fresh cup of coffee
[13:39:29] <crutchy> hahahaha
[13:39:33] <crutchy> stupid google
[13:39:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> i am not
[13:41:12] <crutchy> ~translate de crutchy offers TheMightyBuzzard a fresh hot cup of decent coffee
[13:41:14] <exec> [google translate] crutchy offers TheMightyBuzzard a fresh hot cup of decent coffee (auto -> de): Crutchy TheMightyBuzzard bietet eine frische heie Tasse guten Kaffee
[13:41:41] <crutchy> ~translate en Crutchy TheMightyBuzzard bietet eine frische heiße Tasse guten Kaffee
[13:41:42] <exec> [google translate] Crutchy TheMightyBuzzard bietet eine frische heiße Tasse guten Kaffee (auto -> en): Crutchy TheMightyBuzzard offers a fresh hot cup of good coffee
[13:41:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> close nuff
[13:41:58] <crutchy> eh. close
[13:43:44] <crutchy> ~translate cn hello
[13:43:45] <exec> [google translate] hello (auto -> cn): hello
[13:43:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~translate en meinen kaffee ist nicht zer gut.
[13:43:49] <exec> [google translate] meinen kaffee ist nicht zer gut. (auto -> en): my coffee is not good zer.
[13:44:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, sehr not zer
[13:44:19] * TheMightyBuzzard shurgs
[13:44:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> screw it, thas how it's pronounced.
[13:45:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~translate en meinen kaffee ist nicht sehr gut.
[13:45:15] <exec> [google translate] meinen kaffee ist nicht sehr gut. (auto -> en): my coffee is not very good.
[13:45:17] <crutchy> ~translate zh-CN hello
[13:45:17] <exec> [google translate] hello (auto -> zh-CN):
[13:45:25] <crutchy> this'll fuck it up
[13:45:39] <crutchy> ~translate en ÄãºÃ
[13:45:40] <exec> [google translate] ÄãºÃ (auto -> en):
[13:45:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> har, looks like you needa work on unicode worse than me
[13:45:54] <crutchy> ~translate-sl zh-CN en ÄãºÃ
[13:45:55] <exec> [google translate] ÄãºÃ (zh-CN -> en): &#196;&#227; &#186; &#195;
[13:45:59] <crutchy> lol
[13:47:18] * TheMightyBuzzard ponders
[13:48:44] * crutchy wonders if php has a charset convert function
[13:49:31] <crutchy> hmm prolly just need entity convert
[13:49:58] <crutchy> ah fucked if i know
[13:50:27] <crutchy> if anyone needs chinese translation they can open their browser :-P
[13:53:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> go on, you know you wanna find out what kinda hell i been going through
[13:53:24] <crutchy> you been going through hell?
[13:53:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> getting unicode to work right everywhere, yep.
[13:56:56] <crutchy> spreading the unicode word eh?
[13:57:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> all upon the waters of slashcode, yep
[13:58:06] <crutchy> and then i go hack together a stupid translate script that offends all your unicode sensibilities :-P
[13:59:04] <chromas> Nah it's Google's fault for using entities
[13:59:44] <crutchy> i don't think those entities were english characters
[13:59:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> check out dev.soylentnews.org if ya wanna see it in action. aside from not stripping bad characters and some design decisions n code cleanup, it's almost done.
[14:00:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> ƖȧƆƕ
[14:01:07] <crutchy> klingon?
[14:01:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> should work if you have the font installed
[14:01:41] <crutchy> i can see something that kinda resembles tach
[14:02:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> everything but four byte unicode, which just will not work with the version of perl we have.
[14:02:03] <crutchy> (the c is backwards though)
[14:03:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> 4byte == something like u+012424, which i know only shows 3 bytes but uses another internally
[14:03:15] <crutchy> ooh four bytes... that's enough to fit c3po's languages
[14:03:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> my bad, perl handles it but mysql does not
[14:04:14] <crutchy> oh... mornin chromas :-)
[14:05:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin, chromas
[14:06:02] * crutchy needs to figure out how to change user nick colors in xchat
[14:06:52] <chromas> coffee++ and morning crutchy and TheMightyBuzzard
[14:06:52] <Bender> karma - coffee: 318
[14:07:42] <chromas> Must be very early morning for you, crutchy
[14:08:04] <chromas> Negative morning
[14:10:29] <chromas> You can do function to scan for &#; blocks and just replace with the char() or equivalent in php. Then we can have shiny happy unicode
[14:11:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, http://dev.soylentnews.org
[14:11:01] <monopoly> ↳ 04SN comment by The Mighty Buzzard (18): ,  Qapla', petaQ.
[14:12:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> see, monopoly lurves the unicode
[14:16:33] <chromas> Hmm. The title part treats it like ascii. That would normally be okay, right? Except it strips low value bytes which breaks the fancier characters
[14:16:35] <crutchy> chromas:
[14:16:39] <crutchy> ~time melbourne
[14:16:41] <exec> [Google] 10:16pm Friday (EST) - Time in Melbourne VIC, Australia
[14:16:52] <crutchy> weekend woohoo! :-)
[14:17:07] <chromas> A little earlier than I was thinking
[14:17:36] <crutchy> ah
[14:17:44] <crutchy> ~time new zealand
[14:17:45] <exec> [Google] 12:17am Saturday (NZST) - Time in Wellington, New Zealand
[14:17:57] * chromas can't headtimemath
[14:17:57] <crutchy> i'm not quite that far east
[14:19:01] <chromas> Also watching 1980s music videos
[14:19:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, nah i hadda put ascii in the subject as well
[14:20:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~time chicago
[14:20:37] <exec> [Google] 7:20am Friday (CDT) - Time in Chicago, IL, USA
[14:20:49] <chromas> I wonder if I could just decompress the strings to 4 bytes or however many before stripping
[14:21:11] <crutchy> there's bit functions in php methinks
[14:21:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> why would you, it worked fine
[14:21:26] <crutchy> for shits and giggles :-P
[14:21:37] <crutchy> or giggles about shits
[14:21:50] <chromas> Must just be the android client. I got a bunch of blanks
[14:22:08] <crutchy> i got squares with numbers in them
[14:22:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, is your font on android
[14:22:10] <chromas> Next time, use bullets
[14:22:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> unifont sees it fine
[14:22:30] <crutchy> with a 4 byte magazine
[14:22:34] <chromas> Cool
[14:23:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> some petaQ drank all my coffee again
[14:23:03] <chromas> But doesn't utf-x use nulls of something?
[14:23:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> uses e2 or something
[14:23:29] <chromas> Or
[14:23:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> i forget offhand
[14:23:38] <chromas> Ah
[14:24:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> whoops, found a bug
[14:25:12] <crutchy> a feature bug?
[14:25:14] <chromas> Long as it's> 31
[14:25:59] -!- prospectacle [prospectacle!~3a6b4173@i31-980-48-498.mit188.act.optusnet.com.au] has joined #Soylent
[14:26:04] <crutchy> hi prospectacle
[14:26:07] <prospectacle> hey hey
[14:26:09] <prospectacle> what's happening?
[14:26:26] <crutchy> its friday night and i'm piking on the couch
[14:26:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah a reversion bug i think since NC has been doing his own thing at the same time as i've been doing stuff.
[14:27:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin, prospectacle
[14:27:40] <crutchy> america seems like a different planet sometimes
[14:27:57] <crutchy> so far away
[14:27:57] <prospectacle> i hear they've got kohls instead of coles
[14:28:40] <crutchy> they have mcdonalds instead of... mcdonalds
[14:28:48] <prospectacle> instead of maccas
[14:28:56] <crutchy> mc chukkas
[14:29:13] <crutchy> mickey d's
[14:30:24] <chromas> Gross
[14:30:44] <crutchy> the chippies aren't bad
[14:30:55] <crutchy> mmmm salty
[14:31:34] <crutchy> i lashed out and got a grand angus last week. it wasn't bad either
[14:31:42] <prospectacle> I won $6 on a $4 scratchie today.
[14:31:43] <chromas> Seems like their root beer is usually good but that's it. Probably tweak the mixture to invite me in
[14:31:58] <chromas> Profit!
[14:31:59] <prospectacle> Maybe I should take up gambling professionally
[14:32:00] <crutchy> maccas sells root beer?
[14:32:06] <crutchy> wtf is root beer?
[14:32:20] <chromas> Mcdonald's. Don't know what maccas is
[14:32:21] <crutchy> (is that what you drink after coitus?)
[14:32:40] <prospectacle> we are divided by a common language
[14:33:24] <crutchy> i used my wrong english?
[14:33:52] <prospectacle> maccas = australian for mcdonalds
[14:34:02] <crutchy> root = coitus
[14:34:03] <prospectacle> root beer = soft drink made from root of sassafras tree
[14:34:17] <crutchy> beer = something that goes down well after coitus
[14:35:12] <chromas> Ah so sudo make me a sammich involves nudity
[14:35:43] <crutchy> just don't ask for mayo
[14:37:07] <crutchy> http://www.youtube.com
[14:37:07] <monopoly> ↳ 03GIR - Make Me A Sammich! - YouTube: GIR wants the floor to make him a sammich
[14:37:19] <prospectacle> well, my new corporate overlords let me work four days a week, and keep the IP to my hobby project, so now I trust them.
[14:37:47] <chromas> sudo make me a sammich <~/.mayo
[14:38:23] <crutchy> shit. i still have to work 5 days/week
[14:39:02] <crutchy> we getting a new linux server at work soon apparently
[14:39:21] <prospectacle> Have you tried asking? I worked at a place for 8 years before thinking maybe I should just ask to work four days. They said yes straight away.
[14:39:36] <prospectacle> Of course you have to take a pay cut. It depends if you need more money or more time at this point.
[14:39:57] <crutchy> bosses don't wanna touch the engineering server i set up but at least they didn't hand over the keys to their business to microsoft
[14:40:20] <crutchy> hmm i need all the money i can get atm
[14:41:09] <prospectacle> fair enough then. U in charge of new server?
[14:41:16] <crutchy> nah
[14:41:43] <crutchy> i still gots my toy though, so i'm happy :-)
[14:41:49] <prospectacle> good to hear
[14:42:37] <crutchy> its been running smoothly for the couple of years since i set it up (except for a dead ps one morning). it might have helped sway them maybe
[14:43:12] <crutchy> 'hey if one of our pleb engineers can look after a linux box, anyone can do it'
[14:44:21] <crutchy> should be pretty good though cos they going to set up a remote rsync for backup
[14:44:42] <crutchy> jesse you in ere?
[14:44:44] <prospectacle> lol, they underestimate you.
[14:44:58] <crutchy> nah they know i'm a geek
[14:45:23] <crutchy> i gave the guy working on the company website the irc addy. not sure if he's in though
[14:45:36] <prospectacle> i wonder how much longer till geeks rule the world. If you measure by people on the richest-people list, it's changed dramatically within a generation. One more generation and we might run the place.
[14:46:06] <crutchy> we'll take over with our irc bot minions
[14:46:21] <prospectacle> no doubt
[14:46:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, geeks will never rule the world until they get happy about being firearms owners
[14:46:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> and much, much better at politics
[14:46:39] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: there's always remote control
[14:47:25] <crutchy> mass murder is nothing more than clicking the nuke command for a terran ghost
[14:47:32] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, the second one I agree with. But most rulers don't use weapons personally. They delegate that and make sure the people with weapons feel they're better off with someone else making the hard strategic decisions.
[14:47:49] <paulej72> remote controlled fire arms
[14:48:03] <crutchy> military dudes love the 'i'm just doing my duty' excuse
[14:48:23] <crutchy> or 'i was just following orders'
[14:48:45] <crutchy> 'but they pay me to kill and blow people up'
[14:48:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, not as much as you'd think
[14:48:50] <paulej72> he said "duty"
[14:48:52] <prospectacle> yeah it takes a lot of training and practice to be good at actually fighting, and a lot also to be good at strategy. probably rare to be good at both.
[14:49:29] <crutchy> why did the soldier flush the toilet?
[14:49:38] <crutchy> because it was his duty :-P
[14:50:13] <crutchy> wreck_it_ralph++
[14:50:13] <Bender> karma - wreck_it_ralph: 1
[14:50:27] <prospectacle> how many toilets does it take to change a lightbulb
[14:50:50] <crutchy> nfi
[14:50:53] <crutchy> :-P
[14:51:16] -!- rand [rand!~rand@jsx-671.76-725-78.nts-online.net] has joined #Soylent
[14:51:21] <crutchy> ~define how many toilets does it take to change a lightbulb
[14:51:33] <exec> [stoacademy] 3how many toilets does it take to change a lightbulb: AoE - Area of Effect
[14:51:39] <crutchy> wtf?
[14:51:43] <prospectacle> lol
[14:52:52] <paulej72> exec should post the link when it does that
[14:53:51] <crutchy> just go to stoacademy.com and paste the green text
[14:54:19] <prospectacle> do you guys have rules for deciding how often to refactor. I'm starting to think it makes a big difference to how enjoyable and productive your coding is. But i'm still trying to settle on a good formula for deciding.
[14:55:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, depends on the crew. daily at least for us.
[14:55:02] <prospectacle> At the moment I think: Plan out the next three or four minor version updates, that will result in around 200 lines of code being added or modified. Then do a major refactor after each minor version.
[14:55:10] <crutchy> http://www.stoacademy.com
[14:55:11] <monopoly> ↳ 03Dictionary - Star Trek Online Academy: Dictionary of acronyms and terms in Star Trek Online and MMOs.
[14:55:52] <crutchy> prospectacle: i don't think about refactoring. that requires too much brain stuff that i don't have
[14:56:11] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard. Wow that's a lot more than I ever do. What kind of ratio is it for feature-changes vs refactoring?
[14:56:25] <prospectacle> crutchy, you'll do it and when you do, you'll wish you'd done it sooner
[14:56:36] <prospectacle> I won't tell you to start now, because you have to learn it for yourself. But start now
[14:56:38] <prospectacle> lol
[14:57:09] <crutchy> i rewrite code whenever i look at it and think "what fuck knuckle wrote that!?"
[14:57:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, really depends on how much work got done by who.
[14:57:28] <prospectacle> crutchy, that's a good rule of thumb
[14:57:56] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, what kind of team size do you have?
[14:57:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, not that we're perfect at it. right now we have a reversion bug reintroduced by a bad refactor from NC.
[14:58:13] * TheMightyBuzzard points at paulej72
[14:58:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> hafta ask him. i just do my own thing on my own branch and refactor any time i notice a change in upstream master
[14:59:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> keeps me from having to manually merge huge chunks of code.
[15:01:32] <crutchy> is there an rsync for github repos?
[15:02:15] <prospectacle> Refactoring means making no "progress" while I'm doing it. But not refactoring makes progress grind to a halt once the project exceeds a few thousand lines. Every new change is a pain and I'm like "What idiot wrote this code"
[15:02:50] <prospectacle> I can't help but feel there's some magic harmonious approach where you refactor just often enough that it's easy to do and makes future progress easy.
[15:03:06] <prospectacle> fucked if I know how to do it thought
[15:03:11] <prospectacle> s/thought/though/
[15:03:11] <SedBot> <prospectacle> fucked if I know how to do it though
[15:03:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, lose the time at least once a day or you WILL regret it when you have to manually diff major changes to a file you were working with.
[15:04:31] <crutchy> most big projects i've done (not big really but big for me) reach a point where they change from a simple thing to something that needs a bit more thought and organisation, and i usually have trouble getting the motivation to change my approach. the only really big ones that i've had success with have been work-related, so getting paid helps
[15:05:36] <crutchy> also, a modular design makes refactoring easy (in my limited experience)
[15:05:47] <crutchy> ^is why i prefer functional to oo where possible
[15:05:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, that's the one nice thing about slash
[15:06:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> tons n tons of modularization
[15:06:15] <prospectacle> yes good design helps, I find the project usually exceeds its design very quickly. Maybe I need to spend more design time to start with.
[15:06:23] <prospectacle> or do it better anyway
[15:06:48] <crutchy> modularization can be part of refactoring
[15:07:01] <crutchy> easier early on though i guess
[15:07:20] <crutchy> my big work app started off pretty shit
[15:07:45] <crutchy> i had whole php files run in the global scope, included hundreds of times in one request
[15:08:07] <prospectacle> cool
[15:08:12] <prospectacle> gotta keep those cpus on their toes
[15:08:19] <crutchy> i gradually put it into functions and made it a single include
[15:08:39] <crutchy> took time though. i tackled one file at a time
[15:09:20] <crutchy> once i had it in functions i could shift it around a bit easier
[15:10:47] <prospectacle> yeah i think "library oriented programming" is a good approach. Pretend you were building a library to write just the kind of application you're writing
[15:10:57] <prospectacle> although it's easier said than done.
[15:11:18] <crutchy> bit i started it as a simple proof of concept with no idea of where it might lead so i tend not to focus too much on "the right way" and just let it evolve. i learn more that way too
[15:11:54] <crutchy> use what i've learnt to make what i think will be good, but with no expectation that it will stay that way
[15:12:03] <prospectacle> crutchy, you're right that you don't want to stop your creativity and experimentation too early. At some point though you gotta sit down and organise what you've got
[15:12:08] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Future Internet Is Not So Free Or Open - http://sylnt.us - internet-was-better-in-my-day
[15:12:20] <prospectacle> I don't know why I say that, since you were probably sitting down already.
[15:12:40] <crutchy> i'm couchified :-)
[15:13:03] <crutchy> the organising bit is where some motivation is needed... well, for me anyway
[15:13:16] <prospectacle> yeah me too, since it stall further progress and novelty
[15:13:28] <crutchy> it's where i decide "do i really give a crap about this project enough to change my thinking?"
[15:13:39] <prospectacle> but it's like washing the dishes after dinner. Makes it easier to prepare and eat the next meal
[15:14:01] * prospectacle has a big stack of dishes that need washing
[15:14:05] <crutchy> yeah but who can be fucked doing that
[15:14:06] <crutchy> lol
[15:14:12] <prospectacle> but don't read too much into that
[15:14:14] <prospectacle> lol
[15:14:56] * crutchy has huge pile of dishes
[15:15:39] <crutchy> mostly rinsed at least but still on the dirty side of the sink :-P
[15:16:07] <prospectacle> well you're one step ahead of me
[15:17:03] <crutchy> oooh
[15:17:37] * crutchy just remembered he has a 1.1 kg tub of trolli sour snakes :-D
[15:18:45] <prospectacle> nice, can you /msg me one
[15:19:12] * crutchy tries to squish one through a usb port
[15:20:08] <prospectacle> got it
[15:20:28] <prospectacle> thanks
[15:20:54] <crutchy> there are 4 different countries on the label :-/
[15:25:58] <prospectacle> that's how you know they're good
[15:31:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, ping
[15:32:34] <crutchy> maybe he's frozen?
[15:32:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> prolly still asleep. he was up late and it's pretty early where he is
[15:33:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~time alaska
[15:33:10] <exec> [Google] 5:33am Friday (AKDT) - Time in Alaska, USA
[15:33:20] <crutchy> he needs some polar bear fart to warm up
[15:36:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> he musta made some changes to Slash/DB/MySQL/MySQL.pm
[15:36:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> or hasn't rebased in a while
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[16:03:29] <mattie_p> hey folks, happy independance day to the US folks in here. everyone else, happy Friday
[16:06:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> mattie_p, happy Incorporation Day
[16:07:44] <mattie_p> thanks, TheMightyBuzzard. Are we incorporated now? I've been out of the loop for 5 days while driving across the country
[16:08:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, yeah, my bug is still fixed, NC just hasn't rebased vs me recently
[16:08:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> mattie_p, yep, as of last night. our official incorporation date is july 4
[16:08:44] <mattie_p> woot
[16:08:54] <mattie_p> !woop
[16:08:54] <Bender> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[16:08:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, NC was doing a happy dance last night
[16:09:16] <janrinok> mattie_p: Hi, I hope everything went well - and Happy Independance Day!
[16:09:32] <janrinok> TheMightyBuzzard: to you too, sry.
[16:10:06] <mattie_p> thanks janrinok. yes, everything in the vehicles got to its destination in one piece. goal achieved, special mission unlocked, etc
[16:10:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> janrinok, gracias. i'm more stoked about the incorporation today though. blowing things up being fun aside for the moment.
[16:10:53] <janrinok> Not surprised - we're incorporated. I don't feel much different, but I'm sure that I will!
[16:12:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> we're now part of the not so secret rulers of the world. you been practicing your evil overlord laugh?
[16:14:13] <janrinok> I've always had one! Ask paulej72 about my 'I'm going to rule the world' once when given oversight of the entire SN site for about 30 minutes!
[16:15:20] * janrinok notes that ruling the world wasn't included in the job spec, and I wasn't given very long until banished back to my #editorial corner....
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[16:18:03] <janrinok> You can't hide behind a name change mattie_p....
[16:18:39] <Mattiep> just having internet bounce. This is just like my last place!
[16:18:56] -!- mattie_p has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[16:19:55] <janrinok> mattie_p: I don't know whether you saw it on Sunday evening before you left, but someone suggested having geek film reviews, book reviews etc at the weekends. It got a good reception - especially from NC. Is Tonya_Servo still interested (after the 6 months unpacking and house arranging of course...)?
[16:20:30] <janrinok> Mattiep: ^^^
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[16:28:44] * TheMightyBuzzard fights against the vile rtl marks of unicode
[16:31:08] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Facebook Threat Conviction Tossed Out - http://sylnt.us - sticks-and-stones
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[16:54:47] * Konomi gripes at cpan not loading
[17:11:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> muhahahaha! i have conquered the annoying RTL marks!
[17:34:28] <janrinok> TheMightyBuzzard: Congratulations!
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[17:35:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> my todo list is empty now except for the enormous "make it still work with utf8 set to 0"
[17:35:40] <janrinok> lol
[17:40:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> for that i mostly can't decide if i should allow people to stick the thing into a state that it could spit out garbage if they really, really want to.
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[18:00:14] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - States That Raised Their Minimum Wages Are Experiencing Faster Job Growth - http://sylnt.us - happy-workers
[18:19:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> think i may set my slash vm up to be internet accessible
[18:20:35] <ar> DateTimeImmutable::modify - php, wtf?
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[18:24:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> ar, what you talking about?
[18:25:16] <ar> TheMightyBuzzard: "modify" method on Immutable
[18:25:33] <ar> TheMightyBuzzard: explain like i'm five, what's the logic behind it
[18:25:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> ar, that is certainly a head scratcher
[19:02:53] <crutchy> coffee++
[19:02:53] <Bender> karma - coffee: 319
[19:09:34] * n1 yawn
[19:13:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm out. gotta go spend an hour n a half driving and waiting to get a prescription filled.
[19:14:41] <kobach> lol
[19:16:16] <n1> sounds like a socially acceptable way of saying: "weed and hookers."
[19:20:15] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Vancouver To Open Faraday Cafe - http://sylnt.us - also-handy-for-keeping-pets-in
[19:20:18] * n1 is very much in weekend mode
[19:22:17] <ar> coffee--
[19:22:17] <Bender> karma - coffee: 318
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[20:41:16] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Airbus Submits Patent Application for Windowless Jet Cockpit - http://sylnt.us - Star-Trek-and-the-Holo-deck
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[21:24:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> feels kinda like video game time now since i'm out of anything easy to work on.
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[22:06:44] <NCommander> propong
[22:20:30] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Amazon Sues Ex-Employee Who Went to Work for Google Cloud: - http://sylnt.us - sour-grapes
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[23:09:37] <chromas> Google's turning off Orkut. I figured they'd roll it into +
[23:10:09] <chromas> Or why didn't they just use that instead of making +
[23:20:37] <AndyTheAbsurd> they didn't use orkut because it's full of Brazilian racists
[23:20:50] <AndyTheAbsurd> G+ was great when it first came out
[23:21:03] <AndyTheAbsurd> It's a shame that they've been fucking everything up lately.
[23:22:13] <chromas> I've been noticing G+ posts in the Youtube comment streams—people telling other people to look at some video; it doesn't even make sense
[23:22:30] <chromas> Also they're ruining android
[23:23:12] <AndyTheAbsurd> The new interface to Google Maps web version is so bad I'm actually using Bing's Maps now.
[23:23:51] <chromas> I've been using it for a while; it has higher res aerial photos
[23:24:28] <chromas> though last I checked, google street view has far higher coverage than bing's version
[23:26:47] <chromas> Hey, let's all switch to MSN and Windows Phone!
[23:27:24] <AndyTheAbsurd> And run Windows 8 on all our machines!
[23:28:37] <chromas> Internet rumors suggest they're going to separate desktop/tiletop interfaces for 9
[23:29:06] <chromas> crazy talk
[23:32:10] <crutchy> coffee++
[23:32:10] <Bender> karma - coffee: 319
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[23:41:31] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Doing Something is Better Than Doing Nothing for Most People - http://sylnt.us - pain-is-better-than-nothing