#Soylent | Logs for 2014-07-03
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[00:01:24] <NCommander> paulej72, <3 you guys
[00:02:11] <NCommander> I think I got my UUCP batcher worker
[00:22:05] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - IRS, 501(c)(3) And The future Of Open Source in US - http://sylnt.us - the-irs-strikes-again
[00:22:58] <paulej72> NCommander: ^^^^^^^^
[00:24:39] <NCommander> paulej72, ugh
[00:24:58] <n1> all i can do is shake my head..
[00:25:05] <n1> so stupid.
[00:31:26] <n1> the way i read the summary of that story, basically any small group trying to operate for the public good can be denied.
[00:38:47] <AndyTheAbsurd> which is just the way the corporations want it!
[00:42:47] <n1> sadface
[00:45:22] <stderr> ☹?
[00:46:40] <n1> ☹ indeed
[00:48:23] <stderr> You just need to ^0x3 then...
[00:49:09] <stderr> 💩 would have been much worse.
[00:57:24] <n1> lol
[00:57:36] <n1> well, that is appropriate for the decision
[00:57:40] <n1> not so much my reaction
[01:06:45] -!- pbnjoe [pbnjoe!~pbnjoe@Soylent/Users/313/pbnjoe] has joined #Soylent
[01:08:53] <NCommander> n1, hte United States isn't small business friendly as best I can tell
[01:09:23] * NCommander is trying to fix his NNTP spooler
[01:17:33] <NCommander> slash@lithium:~/slashcode$ ls -lah /tmp/uucp_batch
[01:17:34] <NCommander> -rw-r--r-- 1 slash slash 46M Jul 2 23:16 /tmp/uucp_batch
[01:17:35] <NCommander> Holy crud
[01:17:39] <NCommander> That's a *lot* of comments
[01:20:22] <chromas> 29M are goatse links I snuck in there
[01:22:18] <NCommander> chromas, :-P
[01:22:52] <chromas> is it all files? Or is there a DB in there somewhere?
[01:24:24] <chromas> mv Julia\ Roberts.jpg goatse.jpg
[01:24:33] <chromas> Disguised
[01:26:41] <NCommander> chromas, I'm writing an interface to make slash look like a UUCP-only news server
[01:26:51] <NCommander> so it can feed into InterNetNews and provide access to articles/comments via NNTP
[02:00:17] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Narcissists Watch More Internet Porn - http://sylnt.us - loving-thyself
[02:29:00] <n1> do mod points last longer now?
[02:29:13] -!- TheMightyBuzzard [TheMightyBuzzard!~bob@628-747-682-781.lightspeed.okcbok.sbcglobal.net] has joined #Soylent
[02:31:31] <NCommander> n1, 8 hours
[02:31:39] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I think your last round of fixes fixed the email spool
[02:31:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> shouldn't have but awesome
[02:31:57] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I'm getting proper UTF-8 output in the UUCP batch file which uses most of the same code paths as the newsletter
[02:32:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> gift horse, mouth, not going to look
[02:32:44] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, we need to verify it with real email, but I'm optimistic :-)
[02:33:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, hence the post earlier. i hadn't been signed up to receive emails from dev until yesterday.
[02:33:40] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I think we have dev emails completely disabled
[02:33:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, they work
[02:34:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> or you mean just set everyone to disabled
[02:35:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm just being a lazyass and waiting on the nightly slashd job instead of runtask'ing it
[02:36:28] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I can run it for you now
[02:36:39] <NCommander> Bah
[02:36:43] <NCommander> Comment spool got fucked up
[02:36:46] <NCommander> Argh
[02:36:47] <NCommander> -_-;
[02:37:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> no rush. i'm dicking off for the next couple hours until bed then sleeping anyway
[02:39:32] <NCommander> Cool, I've got comment threading working
[02:39:38] <NCommander> Just need to fix one or two more bugs
[02:42:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> was it broken?
[02:42:37] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I didn't open the file in UTF-8 writig mode for Perl, so the length counts were wrong blowing up rnews
[02:42:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep, that'd do it
[02:46:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> pretty sure i went through and made all the open() calls we use utf8-friendly but i wouldn't swear to it.
[02:47:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> new ones of course need to be set
[02:48:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> occurs to me that switching utf8 on and letting it get into the db then turning it off could be fairly problematic. i should probably write a caveat into the docs about not trying to do it.
[02:49:17] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, ow, yeah
[02:49:28] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I'm stilling trying to figure out how i18n works on USENET
[02:49:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> better you than me
[02:49:43] <NCommander> seems some groups use UTF-8, others use ISO-* something, but I can't figure out how to flag it
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[02:50:27] * TheMightyBuzzard shrugs
[02:50:54] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - IRS, 501(c)(3) and the Future of Open Source in US - http://sylnt.us - the-irs-strikes-again
[02:51:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> no idea on i18n. just got my head wrapped around utf8 for this project.
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[02:51:41] <SpallsHurgenson> wow... that was some lightning storm
[02:52:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> tomorrow i gotta check that mail's working and find out why stripping directional characters isn't.
[02:53:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> http://arstechnica.com
[02:53:40] <monopoly> └ 03Order restored to universe as Microsoft surrenders confiscated No-IP domains | Ars Technica: Of 23 addresses taken in controversial legal action, 18 have so far been returned.
[02:53:43] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, on the opens, are you using :encoding(UTF-8)
[02:53:45] <NCommander> for binmode?
[02:54:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> just using :utf8
[02:54:09] * SpallsHurgenson is against stripping characters on a website that children might visit!
[02:54:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> know there's a slight difference but haven't looked into it yet
[02:54:58] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, encoding might be preferable; it makes perl check to see if the iput is REALLY UTF-8
[02:55:15] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, the dev database right now is great since its a mash of data with different encoding to try and get bugs out
[02:55:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod. i'll add that to the tomorrow list since it's an easy fix then
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[03:00:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, yep. i sorta dread finding out what happens when utf8 is switched off. ideally we go ahead and display what's in the db correctly as-is and only convert to entities for new stuff. not entirely sure i've done that properly though.
[03:00:35] * SpallsHurgenson crosses his fingers and hopes for an earth-shattering kaboom
[03:00:57] * NCommander is swearing considerably
[03:01:03] <NCommander> Perl fucking sucks
[03:01:07] <NCommander> Argh
[03:01:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> it certainly can
[03:02:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> you trying to figure out if a scalar is utf8 or if a newsgroup is?
[03:02:15] <NCommander> Right now, the issue is more simple
[03:02:21] <NCommander> the UUCP batch file requires each post to have a header
[03:02:23] <NCommander> The header is
[03:02:29] <NCommander> # ! rnews <length in bytes>
[03:02:45] <NCommander> Sometimes, rarely, perl returns a length which is incorrect, even using bytes::length
[03:02:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm...
[03:03:27] <NCommander> Here's the bit that writes out the header
[03:03:27] <NCommander> my $header = "#! rnews " . bytes::length($batch);
[03:03:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> there's a way to set the flag on the scalar to be not utf8 for long enough to length it
[03:04:04] <NCommander> Well, right now, I just want to know exactly how many bytes it frackng is, bytes::length is *supposed* to do this
[03:04:10] <NCommander> And that allowed article spooling to succeed
[03:04:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod
[03:05:39] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, this is the post it falls over on: http://meta.dev.soylentnews.org
[03:05:40] <monopoly> └ 04SN comment by martyb (76): utf8_sequence_0-0xff_assigned_printable.txt:
[03:06:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> pretty simple one, that
[03:07:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... what did i have to explicitly tell it was utf8...
[03:07:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> bah, can't search forked repos
[03:12:13] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, http://pastebin.com - here's the raw post from the bucket with rnews header
[03:12:14] <monopoly> └ 03#! rnews 697 Path: lithium!carbon From: martyb Newsgroups: soylentnews.mainpa - Pastebin.com
[03:12:35] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, the size should be 794
[03:14:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh right, it wasn't in slashcode, it was in a command line bit of fluff i wrote the other day
[03:15:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> _utf8_off($scalar); $foo = length($scalar); _utf8_on($scalar); should do it
[03:15:52] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, ugh https://stackoverflow.com
[03:15:53] <monopoly> └ 03How do I find the length of a Unicode string in Perl? - Stack Overflow
[03:18:14] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, _utf_* is an internal API, you're not supposed to use it
[03:18:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, i'm just a wild child like that
[03:19:25] <NCommander> Ok, looks like I need to pass it through an encode
[03:19:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> had to use it to get the utf8 flag set for some argv input because perl wasn't believing me and decode/encode both mucked it up
[03:21:17] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Genetically Modified Red Blood Cells to Protect Soldiers from Bioweapons - http://sylnt.us - protecting-human-assets
[03:22:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> the other solution was to encode(decode()) it, which just made no damned sense to me
[03:23:30] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I just ran it through encode, which seems to return the right value
[03:23:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> cool cool
[03:24:22] <NCommander> Jul 3 01:24:09 carbon innd: localhost:20 closed seconds 2 accepted 3012 refused 69 rejected 0 duplicate 0 accepted size 2816296 duplicate size 0 rejected size 0
[03:24:23] <NCommander> Well
[03:24:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> apparently my issue was specific to argv data that perl had no idea if it was utf8 or not.
[03:24:26] <NCommander> It got a lot farther
[03:24:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm. yep. plus you got to snicker at 69.
[03:25:24] <NCommander> and blows up at a post I had issues with before doing this
[03:25:25] <NCommander> ARGH
[03:25:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> weeee
[03:26:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> unicode's fun, ain't it.
[03:26:26] <SpallsHurgenson> it ain't fun, unicode
[03:26:43] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, now it falls over on http://dev.soylentnews.org
[03:26:44] <monopoly> └ 04SN comment by e_armadillo (3695): Not just existing as a patent troll? Now that is news!
[03:26:56] <NCommander> wrong link
[03:26:57] <NCommander> http://dev.soylentnews.org
[03:26:58] <monopoly> └ 04SN journal 03 Computational Sensing and Imaging 04(12 comments): dotdotdot writes: An extremely tiny lensless camera (PDF), developed by Rambus, has been slowly making waves over the past year. Researchers for the company, Davi...
[03:27:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> on the post itself?
[03:28:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> funky. looks like it only has one unicode character
[03:29:58] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, its causing an off-by-one error
[03:30:10] <NCommander> Ugh
[03:30:13] * NCommander bangs head repeatively
[03:31:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm tellin ya, cheat and on/off it
[03:32:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> mmmmm... whiskey...
[03:32:57] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, if I have to, I will but ugh
[03:33:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's part of slash, right? has to have at least one ugly hack or it won't fit in.
[03:37:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, side question, do we want to move off of slashd-generated feeds to index.pl?content_type=rss so we can serve up proper links instead of duplicating the feeds?
[03:37:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> for https links i mean
[03:38:44] <chromas> dev uses a different template for articles than main?
[03:39:13] * chromas needs to watch the dev stuff more
[03:40:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, rss feeds are http only on live right now because they're flat files and never touched by slash
[03:40:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> on dev we have them duplicated to .srss/.satom/etc with https links instead
[03:40:30] <chromas> html; the dispStory is template 42 on main but not dev
[03:40:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh ya, the numbers completely don't match up but it doesn't matter.
[03:41:23] <chromas> It does when I take the lazy way out and use them to find the article text :D
[03:41:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> ha, sucker
[03:41:37] <paulej72> chromas: Template numbers are auto increment I'd from the db table
[03:42:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, means they'll stay the same on live but no reason for them to be the same on dev
[03:42:35] <chromas> and journals are 5. They must use an older template
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[03:42:50] <chromas> older than articles
[03:43:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'just what order they got stuck in the db
[03:43:10] <paulej72> I don't think we truncated the template table on dev when we moved all of the templates to make themes work
[03:44:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, i say we randomize the numbers in the output html just to mess with chromas
[03:44:32] <chromas> lol
[03:44:56] <paulej72> Make them aa
[03:45:05] <paulej72> All 666
[03:45:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> 8675309
[03:45:31] <paulej72> 5551212
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[03:46:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> i guess we really should get the dynamic rss going for regular users so's they can stop scraping the main page.
[03:46:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> could also do the "give me 20 articles in the feed" bit
[03:47:04] <chromas> I'm only scraping the html for the useless bot feature
[03:47:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahh
[03:47:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> gotcha
[03:48:30] <paulej72> TheMightyBuzzard: It is all or nothing as rss readers don't log in
[03:48:43] * chromas should be script kiddie skillz to better use but
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[03:49:09] <chromas> They don't do cookies?
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[03:50:21] <paulej72> I am thinking thunderbird
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[03:51:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, nah. they could do index.pl?content_type=rss&n=20 easy peasy
[03:51:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm thinking more for scripts than rss readers though
[03:51:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> rss readers keep track fine on their own and check regularly.
[03:52:00] <chromas> then we just need comment feeds :D
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[03:52:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, i could do that but no.
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[03:58:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> you would basically use the flat, newest first option and stuff the results into rss
[04:00:54] <NCommander> That was a really tasty poptart :-)
[04:01:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> this is passably tasty whiskey
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[04:02:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> just bushmills but it's hard to get good irish here in the states.
[04:04:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, paulej72, mail works. all kinds of kanji goodness looking at me from gmail.
[04:04:29] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, great!
[04:04:44] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, so the encode/decode dance handles cases where the UTF-8 data is malformed
[04:05:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> sounds right for your situation too
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[04:05:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> with the one lone unicode character
[04:07:23] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, where di that one lone caharacter come from? :-/
[04:08:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> the micro symbol? a wiseass most likely.
[04:09:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> painfµl
[04:10:47] * TheMightyBuzzard needs candy to go with his whiskey
[04:18:51] <NCommander> That looks like that did the trick
[04:19:12] <NCommander> Jul 3 02:19:03 carbon innd: localhost:20 closed seconds 2 accepted 3012 refused 69 rejected 0 duplicate 0 accepted size 2816296 duplicate size 0 rejected size 0
[04:19:13] <NCommander> No
[04:19:14] <NCommander> argh
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[04:26:29] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I don't even see a unicode character in that post, how'd you find it?
[04:26:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> the µ is unicode
[04:26:51] <NCommander> Oh
[04:26:52] <NCommander> Bah
[04:27:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> stealthy but unicode
[04:27:10] <NCommander> I wonder why it doesn't fowl up earlier posts
[04:27:20] * TheMightyBuzzard shurgs
[04:27:58] * NCommander looks a bit closer
[04:28:28] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, ultraminiature (~100 µm),
[04:28:39] <NCommander> Its encoded as a HTML entity
[04:28:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, shouldn't be an issue then
[04:29:25] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, yeah, but it doesn't explain why its mucking up the counts
[04:29:37] <NCommander> I'm tempted to edit that post so it can export properly
[04:29:58] <NCommander> ultraminiature (~100 µm)
[04:30:05] <NCommander> That's how it encodes in the fed
[04:30:07] <NCommander> *feed
[04:30:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> not sure it is the entity then. could be something entirely different unless you're parsing it to a character.
[04:30:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> it goes like that into your feed?
[04:30:50] <NCommander> Well, the raw text is µ
[04:30:55] <NCommander> I think html2txt is fucking up
[04:31:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> very likely
[04:31:21] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, do we allow HTML entities in comments?
[04:31:31] * NCommander isn't quite sure if that ever worked, or was always filtered
[04:31:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> as a general rule, yeah. there are only like six not allowed right now on live even.
[04:32:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> why are you using html2txt though?
[04:32:34] <NCommander> # restore UTF-8 Flag lost by HTML::TreeBuilder
[04:32:34] <NCommander> $text = decode_utf8($text) if ($was_utf8);
[04:32:36] <NCommander> That smells wrong
[04:32:48] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, its whats used to turn HTML -> text for the daily email, its a slash function
[04:32:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> it really does but it currently works
[04:33:01] * NCommander diffs his branch against yours
[04:33:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahhh
[04:33:04] <NCommander> I might be missing a patch
[04:33:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> only one this morning
[04:33:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> i think
[04:33:38] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, let me pull and rebase
[04:34:09] <NCommander> argh error: Your local changes to the following files would be overwritten by merge:
[04:34:09] <NCommander> Slash/DB/Static/MySQL/MySQL.pm
[04:34:13] * NCommander swears
[04:34:18] <NCommander> Looks like I was missing quite a few patches
[04:34:23] <SpallsHurgenson> cheeky monkey
[04:34:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> doh
[04:35:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> manual diffing FTL
[04:35:28] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, rebase complete
[04:35:34] * NCommander redeploys his branch and tries again
[04:36:17] <Popeidol> calm down with that innuendo, NCommander
[04:36:28] * NCommander rolls eyes at Popeidol
[04:36:58] <chromas> NCommander: s/re/free/
[04:37:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> me, i woulda been lazy and just used the rss creation in open_backend as a template.
[04:38:03] <NCommander> agahaha
[04:38:07] * NCommander accidently nuked a change
[04:38:09] <NCommander> ARGH
[04:39:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> git: for those times when you just really need hours of work flushed down the toilet.
[04:39:12] <NCommander> have no lens, they are ultraminiature (~100 �m), have large effective
[04:39:12] <NCommander> depth of field (1 mm to infinity), and are very inexpensive (a few
[04:39:26] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, this wasn't git, I had some patches I was experimenting w/ in ~/slashcode
[04:39:31] <NCommander> Forgot to back them up
[04:39:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahhh
[04:39:48] <NCommander> So it looks like it encoded to an unknown character
[04:39:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> does indeed
[04:39:56] <NCommander> Which is probably the "sane" thing to do if the input is malformed
[04:40:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> so definitely not what ~we~ should do then
[04:41:56] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, yeah. Second note, instead of commenting out, delete
[04:42:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean, good gods man, i'm taking on something cowboyneal and crew could/would never get working in over a decade. sane has left the building.
[04:42:24] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, they got it working just fine at some point. slashdot.jp says it does :-P
[04:42:35] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, but seriously, I owe you beers for your work on this
[04:42:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> i figured /..jp did their own thang like we are.
[04:43:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, just a good cut when we sell to dice and retire.
[04:43:35] * NCommander groans
[04:44:04] * NCommander rebatches
[04:44:31] <NCommander> Looks sane
[04:44:36] * NCommander feeds it to INN
[04:45:03] <NCommander> Its takng awhile to import
[04:45:05] <NCommander> I think we have success
[04:45:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> happy happy, joy joy
[04:45:18] <NCommander> It rejected 10 messages with invalid timestamps
[04:45:19] <NCommander> Hrm
[04:45:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> tf it care about timestamps?
[04:45:37] <NCommander> 25261 new usenet posts
[04:45:45] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, there are a few articles with a post date in 1969
[04:45:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahhh
[04:45:55] <NCommander> Which got rejected by INN when they spooled
[04:46:03] <NCommander> I need to clean those out of the database, or write a catch case
[04:46:21] * NCommander waits for Thunderbird to finish DLing headers
[04:46:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> or just redate them
[04:47:01] <NCommander> So
[04:47:04] <NCommander> The biggest problem now
[04:47:09] <NCommander> Lack of inline replies
[04:47:20] * NCommander could add them programatically but ...
[04:47:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> you putting comments in too?
[04:48:00] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, yeah, I got the full import to work now
[04:48:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> funkay
[04:48:19] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, load the group up, though you might need to unsubscribe/resubscribe to make it refresh the index
[04:49:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> too much brain usage for tonight
[04:52:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> beer n tv now
[05:00:58] * NCommander fiddles some more
[05:01:23] <SpallsHurgenson> NCommander fiddles while Soylent burns
[05:01:33] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - ASA Bans EA Dungeon Keeper Commercial as Misleading - http://sylnt.us - marketing,-ever-a-bastion-of-integrity
[05:10:28] * NCommander dumps the production database
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[06:17:20] <chromas> The worst thing about facebook is the lack of SedBot
[06:20:32] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Self-Described Plutocrat Warns Others - http://sylnt.us - picthfork-futures-accelerate-to-new-highs
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[08:11:56] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - BC Government Uses Science to Set Speed Limits - http://sylnt.us - 5mph-speed-limits-in-new-york,-london-and-tokyo
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[08:35:19] <NCommander> Argh
[08:45:57] <chromas> Soylent Rum?
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[09:28:38] <crutchy> coffee++
[09:28:38] <Bender> karma - coffee: 314
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[09:33:56] <crutchy> g'day Subsentient
[09:36:18] <Subsentient> hi crutchy
[09:41:13] <crutchy> what's new?
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[09:42:42] <Subsentient> crutchy: Just fiddling with my ncurses breakout game. Adding levels.
[09:50:23] <crutchy> cool
[09:51:09] <crutchy> retro
[10:08:26] <crutchy> who would have guessed there would be an angry birds cartoon
[10:10:09] <Popeidol> I feel they may have to deviate from the plot of the game to get more than a few episodes
[10:11:07] <crutchy> there's 26 on this dvd i bought
[10:11:13] <Popeidol> or it could be like the power rangers, where every problem turns out to be solvable by turning into megazord
[10:11:43] <Popeidol> I guess most things can be solved with giant robots though
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[10:19:53] <crutchy> 26 episodes seemed like a lot, except each one only goes for about 4 minutes
[10:22:39] <crutchy> its pretty faarkin funny though
[10:41:48] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Ouya Offers Yearly Subscription for Full Game Library - For a Short Time - http://sylnt.us - Ouya-Wanna-Beya-Playa?
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[10:58:44] <arti> pretty wild
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[12:36:13] <prospectacle> greetings fellow nerds of an idealistic nature
[12:41:17] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Earth-like Planet Found 16 Light-years Away - http://sylnt.us - Launch-a-Class-1-Probe
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[14:01:17] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Historic Facebook "Fraping" Case Sees Irish Man Fined US$2,735 - http://sylnt.us - think-twice
[14:08:20] <chromas> Bender: s/ing/nel/
[14:08:20] <SedBot> <chromas> <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Historic Facebook "Frapnel" Case Sees Irish Man Fined US$2,735 - http://sylnt.us - think-twice
[14:15:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> wow, that was an epic sleep-in for me
[14:16:20] <chromas> Did it help?
[14:17:05] <chromas> Did you dream in utf-8?
[14:17:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> it was some quality sleep for a change, sure didn't hurt
[14:27:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> has, unfortunately for coding, put me in a slacker-ass mood today though.
[14:29:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> catch you lot later. going to boot winders n play some divinity: original sin. digging it quite a bit so far.
[14:31:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> anyone who really needs to get in touch can yoink my email address out of the db on dev or prod
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[15:30:24] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Operating a TOR Exit Node May be Criminally Punishable in Austria - http://sylnt.us - they-can't-catch-the-criminals-so-they-catch-someone-else-instead
[15:30:57] <Bytram> http://phys.org
[15:31:00] <monopoly> └ 03Google 'forgets' stories on BBC, UK newspaper sites: Google has restricted access to a BBC blog posting and several British newspaper stories under a legal ruling granting people a right to be 'forgotten' in search engi... ( http://phys.org )
[15:45:00] <crutchy> coffee++
[15:45:00] <Bender> karma - coffee: 315
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[15:46:12] <Bytram> coffee++
[15:46:12] <Bender> karma - coffee: 316
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[15:46:50] <Bytram> crutchy: g'day!
[15:47:18] <Bytram> crutchy: do i recall correctly that you authored the "monopoly" bot
[15:47:37] <Bytram> FYI: I invited it over to #editorial
[15:49:19] <crutchy> g'day bytram
[15:49:33] <crutchy> nope. monopoly is the work of chromas
[15:49:47] <Bytram> ah!
[15:50:07] * Bytram notes there's too many c* names here for me to keep straight
[15:50:32] <Bytram> thanks for the info!
[15:50:48] * Bytram goes back into trying to grok Unicode and UTF-8
[16:00:17] <paulej72> Bytram: I want to apply my decree to c nicks as well as m nicks. There are a few letters that are poorly represented so we should be OK.
[16:03:10] * Bytram just tried to change my nick to Bytram! "Bytram :Erroneous Nickname"
[16:03:18] <Bytram> :(
[16:04:49] <Bytram> paulej72: there's 55 people on right now, so, at best there'd be at least 2 with each leading letter of the alphabet... gonna get interesting if this channel gets more popular!
[16:05:39] <paulej72> Bytram: half of them are bots ;)
[16:06:14] <Bytram> paulej72: maybe we need an edict that all bot's names must start with "bot" or somesuch?
[16:06:22] <Bytram> or "bot_"
[16:19:35] <chromas> ♨++ Unicode, sir Bender?
[16:24:37] <Bytram> poundpound++
[16:24:37] <Bender> karma - poundpound: 1
[16:25:23] <Bytram> copy++
[16:25:23] <Bender> karma - copy: 1
[16:25:29] <Bytram> copy++
[16:25:29] <Bender> karma - copy: 2
[16:25:36] <Bytram> copy++
[16:25:36] <Bender> karma - copy: 3
[16:25:46] <Bytram> chromas: ^^^
[16:26:06] <chromas> C♨ffee++
[16:26:19] <chromas> just not this symbol I guess
[16:27:51] <chromas> Just added feed burner stripping
[16:28:34] <Bytram> http://feedproxy.google.com
[16:28:36] <monopoly> ↳ 03IEEE Launches Anti-Malware Support Service | SecurityWeek.Com: The IEEE announced the launch of a new service designed to help the security industry respond more efficiently to the modern malware threats landscape. ( http://www.securityweek.com )
[16:29:02] <Bytram> hmmm...
[16:29:03] <Bytram> http://feedproxy.google.com
[16:29:05] <monopoly> ↳ 03IEEE Launches Anti-Malware Support Service | SecurityWeek.Com: The IEEE announced the launch of a new service designed to help the security industry respond more efficiently to the modern malware threats landscape. ( http://www.securityweek.com )
[16:29:35] <Bytram> chromas: that's great!
[16:29:50] <Bytram> hmmm, might want to add a trailing "/" to the generated URL?
[16:29:58] <Bytram> http://www.securityweek.com
[16:30:00] <monopoly> ↳ 03IEEE Launches Anti-Malware Support Service | SecurityWeek.Com: The IEEE announced the launch of a new service designed to help the security industry respond more efficiently to the modern malware threats landscape. ( http://www.securityweek.com )
[16:41:16] <chromas> What does that do?
[16:44:57] <Bytram> it saves requests/processing. the trailing "/" explicitly indicates that it is the end of that part of the url (treat as a directory element), otherwise, it thinks it's a file, doesn't find it, and tries again as a dir...
[16:45:01] <Bytram> at least IIRC
[16:46:13] <Bytram> also makes it clear to the user that the end of the item has been reached, as opposed to some (random) number of characters having been "lost" but still *look* okay.
[16:46:23] <Bytram> http://feedproxy.google.com
[16:46:24] <monopoly> ↳ 03IEEE Launches Anti-Malware Support Service | SecurityWeek.Com: The IEEE announced the launch of a new service designed to help the security industry respond more efficiently to the modern malware threats landscape. ( http://www.securityweek.com )
[16:46:42] <Bytram> http://www.securityweek.com
[16:46:44] <monopoly> ↳ 03Information Security News, IT Security News & Expert Insights: SecurityWeek.Com
[16:47:04] <Bytram> chromas: ^^^ the URL *look* okay, but is missing something
[16:47:09] <Bytram> http://www.securityweek.com
[16:47:10] <monopoly> ↳ 03Information Security News, IT Security News & Expert Insights: SecurityWeek.Com ( http://www.securityweek.com )
[16:47:29] <Bytram> with that one, there is an *explicit* indicator that it is the end of a "piece" of the URL.
[16:48:29] <chromas> It's what the server is returning
[16:49:59] <Bytram> huh! nvm then!
[16:50:24] <Bytram> I'd like to think that they know what they are doing!
[16:51:25] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - UK Internet Filters Censors More than Porn - http://sylnt.us - Wide-Net
[16:52:16] <Bytram> oops typo! on my way!
[16:54:34] <chromas> Bender: s/n /ns /
[16:54:34] <SedBot> <chromas> <Bender> [SoylentNews] - UK Internet Filters Censors More thans Porn - http://sylnt.us - Wide-Net
[16:55:11] <chromas> Bender: s/ /s /g
[16:55:11] <SedBot> <chromas> <Bender> [SoylentNews]s -s UKs Internets Filterss Censorss Mores thans Porns -s http://sylnt.us -s Wide-Net
[16:59:35] <Bytram> chromas: LOL!!
[16:59:59] <Bytram> chromas: s/ss /s /
[17:00:15] <chromas> Aw
[17:00:19] <Bytram> ??
[17:00:37] <Bytram> Bender: s/ss /s /g
[17:00:55] <Bytram> chromas: Bender: s/ss /s /g
[17:01:13] <Bytram> blargle.
[17:01:17] <chromas> Bender: s/ss /s /g
[17:01:24] <chromas> Bender: s/s /ss /g
[17:01:24] <SedBot> <chromas> <Bender> [SoylentNews] - UK Internet Filterss Censorss More than Porn - http://sylnt.us - Wide-Net
[17:01:31] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - UK Internet Filters Censor More than Porn - http://sylnt.us - Wide-Net
[17:02:09] <chromas> Could also be filter censors, depending on just how many filters there are
[17:03:38] <Bytram> supposing it's not just ONE humongous REGEXP, I'd go with the plural. OTOH, it's UK english, and they do different stuff with collective nouns and plurals. =)
[17:09:12] <Bytram> !uid
[17:09:12] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 4511, owned by untrainedmonkey
[17:09:20] <chromas> Yeah, shouldn't it be filtres?
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[17:10:15] <Bytram|afk> chromas: LOL!
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[18:30:39] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Microsoft Reinstates Domains Seized from No-IP - http://sylnt.us - now-give-it-back
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[19:41:32] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - NASA Data Shows More People Means More Plant Growth - http://sylnt.us - bunch-of-tree-hugging-hippies
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[19:52:20] <Bytram|afk> http://rss.computerworld.com
[19:52:21] <monopoly> ↳ 03Why You Should Invest in Training Your IT Team - Computerworld: &"The only thing worse than training employees and losing them is to not train them and keep them." -- Zig Ziglar ( http://www.computerworld.com )
[19:56:25] <chromas> fixed
[19:56:34] <chromas> it was also looking for the ?
[19:56:46] <chromas> http://rss.computerworld.com
[19:56:47] <monopoly> ↳ 03Why You Should Invest in Training Your IT Team - Computerworld: &"The only thing worse than training employees and losing them is to not train them and keep them." -- Zig Ziglar ( http://www.computerworld.com )
[19:57:08] <chromas> tjough maybe it should also nuke source=
[19:59:21] <AndyTheAbsurd> you can cut if off at the &utm=
[19:59:44] <AndyTheAbsurd> I have a "DeFeedburnerizer" bookmarklet that does it to URLs I've got open in my browser
[20:00:45] <AndyTheAbsurd> actually I guess it should be "[?&]utm" that you cut it off at
[20:01:12] <chromas> Mine just detects the &utm= and cuts it off one char before (to get the ? and &)
[20:03:23] Bytram|afk is now known as Bytram
[20:04:05] <Bytram> I dunno why, but the "?" character is used to set off the *start* of arguments to, say, a cgi-script, and then "&" to set off subsequent ones.
[20:04:17] * Bytram learned that one the hard way many many moons ago.
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[21:00:32] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Big Cyber Hack of Health Records is 'Only a Matter of Time' - http://sylnt.us - suffering-in-silence
[21:20:47] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Windows 7, XP and Even Vista Gain Market Share - http://sylnt.us - back-from-the-dead
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[22:08:54] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: hey there!
[22:09:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> afternoon
[22:09:10] <Bytram> I've been doing lots of reading and playing around...
[22:09:25] <Bytram> got most of a UTF-8 encoder written
[22:09:52] <Bytram> idea being that I can include the literal/bare bytes for each unicode char along with the named character entities.
[22:10:18] <Bytram> IOW, could create test data that I could copy/paste into text entry fields.
[22:10:53] <Bytram> will prolly need another hour to clean up and generalize, but the bare bones conversion stuff seems to work!
[22:10:55] <NCommander> Bytram, so I've got comments exported out to NNTP now, though they're not exactly ideal
[22:10:56] <NCommander> :-)
[22:10:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're almost as loony as i am
[22:11:13] <Bytram> NCommander++
[22:11:13] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 34
[22:11:22] <NCommander> Bytram, if you got your news reader, feel free to take a look
[22:11:27] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: I aspire to your level of looniness
[22:11:31] <NCommander> Bytram, I think I need to do some automatic inline quoting
[22:12:01] <Bytram> NCommander: would love to, but kinda busy getting UTF-8 test data generation working. :(
[22:12:04] * TheMightyBuzzard doesn't even know if he has a news reader installed
[22:12:14] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, got thunderbird? :-P
[22:12:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah
[22:12:24] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, ... Outlook?
[22:12:26] * NCommander ducks
[22:12:29] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: If you've got emacs, I'm sure it's in there.
[22:12:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> no email client since many moons ago. webmail for the lazy win
[22:12:49] <Bytram> I'm pretty sure outlook has it, too. also thunderbird prolly does, too.
[22:13:33] * Bytram needs to close about 20 ff tabs before his pc crashes under the load
[22:13:51] <NCommander> The biggest problem is I think the lack of inline replies, comments on USENET usually require some context, and its a bit awkward without it
[22:14:06] <Bytram> NCommander: nod nod
[22:14:51] <Bytram> NCommander: have you taken a look at squte.com(?) ?? one of our members wrote it. there's a journal entry pointing to it
[22:15:11] <NCommander> Bytram, I did, and I even got access to USENET to also look at comp.misc
[22:15:25] <Bytram> good!
[22:17:22] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: wish I had a couple more uninterrupted days to come up with a full test plan for UTF-8
[22:17:27] <Bytram> just found this http://www.unicode.org
[22:17:29] <monopoly> ↳ 03FAQ - UTF-8, UTF-16, UTF-32 BOM
[22:17:43] <Bytram> which mentions:
[22:17:43] <Bytram> re there any byte sequences that are not generated by a UTF? How should I interpret them?
[22:17:43] <Bytram> A: None of the UTFs can generate every arbitrary byte sequence. For example, in UTF-8 every byte of the form 110xxxxx2 must be followed with a byte of the form 10xxxxxx2. A sequence such as <110xxxxx2 0xxxxxxx2> is illegal, and must never be generated. When faced with this illegal byte sequence while transforming or interpreting, a UTF-8 conformant process must treat the first byte 110xxxxx2 as an illega
[22:17:44] <Bytram> l termination error: for example, either signaling an error, filtering the byte out, or representing the byte with a marker such as FFFD (REPLACEMENT CHARACTER). In the latter two cases, it will continue processing at the second byte 0xxxxxxx2.
[22:17:47] <Bytram> A conformant process must not interpret illegal or ill-formed byte sequences as characters, however, it may take error recovery actions. No conformant process may use irregular byte sequences to encode out-of-band information.
[22:20:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, take a couple more days then. i'm in no danger of being done today.
[22:20:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> or even of really getting any work done today
[22:20:42] <Bytram> thanks, but I gotta work the next few days instead of getting important things done! =)
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[22:24:03] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: On http://soylentnews.org I plan to try crafty/nefarious things with the Homepage, Public Calendar, Sig, and Bio fields and any others I can find.
[22:24:03] <monopoly> ↳ 03Log In
[22:24:22] <Bytram> especially wrt to rtl and ltr marker chars
[22:25:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, don't bother with those just yet. we're currently not touching them due to bugginess.
[22:26:02] <Bytram> understood. Just wanted to give you fair warning before I beat on those.
[22:26:14] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, did you see my comment on deleting code?
[22:26:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> was going to fix that today but my arse is the slack today
[22:26:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, where abouts?
[22:26:54] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, here on IRC, about deleting vs. commenting out
[22:27:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> nope, wasn't here i guess
[22:27:40] <Bytram> nor was I
[22:28:05] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I prefer if you're removing code to delete it outright unless there's a pressing reason to comment. Commented out code tends to stick around for decades in any codebase
[22:28:41] * NCommander has been taking lessons from the libressl team
[22:29:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, nod nod. the stuff i'm leaving around is mostly stuff i'm currently unsure of or want to keep around for reference for a bit.
[22:29:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> will do a run through and nuke commented stuff near release time.
[22:29:36] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, that's fine then :-)
[22:29:43] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I'm trying to keep this code base maintainable
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[22:29:55] * NCommander notes with the sheer amount of cruft we've already jetsoned, its at least easier to grep
[22:30:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep yep
[22:30:14] <Bytram> NCommander: question for ya...
[22:30:24] <NCommander> Bytram, shoot
[22:30:31] <Bytram> on the /my/comments page one can request "Display Link domains"
[22:30:35] * NCommander is about to go on a conference call so I may go AFK
[22:30:45] <NCommander> Bytram, thats the this is a link [goatse.cx] feature
[22:30:51] <Bytram> is the code that does it pretty mcuh all in one place?
[22:31:18] <Bytram> I'm thinking we're going to need to "filter" UTF-8-ness from URLs and that might be a good place to hook into
[22:32:22] <Bytram> there's a nuch of security concerns to be aware of, but the simplest thing would be to *at the least* output a flag whenever a URL contains non-ASCII characters
[22:33:08] <Bytram> oh, that was a question? yes, that's the one I was talking about.
[22:33:44] <Bytram> when selected, it appends the domain name in brackets following each URL that appears in comments.
[22:35:25] <Bytram> I don't know enough for certain, yet, what checks we should employ / what constructs we should filter/block, but ISTM that we should at least flag it.
[22:36:18] <Bytram> NCommander: for example, see: http://dev.soylentnews.org
[22:36:19] <monopoly> ↳ 04SN comment by martyb (76): &<stderr>: Something like this? moc.elgoog.ln
[22:41:48] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Written Text Perceived as More Trustworthy - http://sylnt.us - vote-Woods-for-president
[22:42:54] <Bytram> afk
[22:43:05] Bytram is now known as Bytram|afk
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[23:21:04] <Cyprus> NCommander: ping
[23:21:46] <NCommander> Cyprus, pong
[23:23:12] <Cyprus> Ncommander: Heya. Did you guys ever do a write up about the systems infra, specifically along the lines of the LDAP structure, and/or the ssh keys? I have a guy looking to redo his network, and they hate windows, and are strong linux setup, but haven't done anything with LDAP before. Thought it would be a good starting point if it existed
[23:23:34] * NCommander dives out a window
[23:23:38] <Cyprus> I want to suggest centralizing his stuff, as right now they just use root for everything
[23:23:44] <NCommander> Cyprus, its partially documented, but setting up OpenLDAP is a fucking PITA
[23:23:45] <Cyprus> lol
[23:23:47] <NCommander> I won't recommend it
[23:23:55] <Cyprus> noted
[23:23:57] * Bytram|afk throws ncommander a mattress just in the nick of time
[23:24:06] <NCommander> 389 Directory Service is probably better than OpenLDAP
[23:24:23] * Bytram|afk dons QA hat
[23:24:27] <NCommander> OpenLDAP has this strange notion that its config should be in LDAP, and thus require an arcane file format that is poorly documented to configure it
[23:24:44] <NCommander> Cyprus, there's quite a bit of documentation on the setup ont he wiki under SystemAdministration
[23:24:52] <Cyprus> yeah i was noticing that on their page, which is what made me jump in here =)
[23:25:05] <Cyprus> cool, i'll browse through that, thanks
[23:25:08] <NCommander> Cyprus, maybe its worth writing some articles on that
[23:25:21] <NCommander> Cyprus, we're using Ubuntu 12/14.04 in production, their documentation is decent
[23:25:34] <NCommander> Cyprus, (the KRB5 stuff is a little iffy on replication, but otherwise correct)
[23:25:44] <Cyprus> One of these days i need to try ubuntu, you guys seem to love it
[23:25:46] <Bytram|afk> NCommander: can a user who downloads all of our slash stuff from git set up SSL and all that without OpenLDAP?
[23:25:46] <NCommander> Cyprus, I don't recommend using CentOS/RH, it just makes life more difficult
[23:25:55] <NCommander> Bytram|afk, yeah, the VM doesn't use it
[23:26:01] <Bytram|afk> nod nod
[23:26:07] * Bytram|afk ffs qa haty
[23:26:09] <Cyprus> well, they're on gentoo now, so anything is less painful =)
[23:26:11] <NCommander> Bytram|afk, you need to use nginx though, mod_ssl is a *bad* idea with Apache 1.3
[23:26:15] * Bytram|afk doffs qa hat
[23:26:24] <NCommander> Cyprus, gentoo uses sane configuration files
[23:26:48] <Bytram|afk> NCommander: at least THAT is documented, right? =)
[23:26:49] <Cyprus> oh no doubt, the problem is trying to maintain a gentoo server long term
[23:27:00] <Cyprus> almost all their boxes are in the chicken-egg state
[23:27:06] <Bytram|afk> Cyprus: that would be a gentoolong server?
[23:27:34] <Cyprus> Bytram++
[23:27:34] <Bender> karma - bytram: 5
[23:28:04] <NCommander> Cyprus, I seriously recommend taking Ubuntu for a spin, we converted xlefay from a RH fan to an Ubuntu one
[23:28:27] <Bytram|afk> NCommander: and when's the last time you've seen him? :/ =)
[23:29:02] <NCommander> Bytram|afk, I had an email w/ him about 1.5 weeks ago
[23:29:20] <Bytram|afk> yeah, jk.
[23:29:23] <Bytram|afk> =)
[23:29:24] <Cyprus> Yeah, I'm not opposed, my problem is I don't really have the time to learn a new structure at the moment
[23:29:33] * Bytram|afk misses him terribly.
[23:29:50] <Cyprus> as it is I'm failing at my goals of learning python, and getting my ccie. I don't need another project on top of that hehe
[23:31:52] <Cyprus> 389 Directory looks nice
[23:33:08] <Cyprus> not sure I want to depend on a fedora backed project for infrastructure though =/
[23:33:19] <Cyprus> at least openldap isn't going to up and disapear one day
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