#Soylent | Logs for 2014-06-25

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[00:01:15] <arti> ~define bonce
[00:01:23] * arti >.>
[00:01:23] <exec> [wolframalpha] 3bonce: noun | informal terms for a human head
[00:01:51] * arti wasn't aware wolfram alpha did words, they must be accurate
[00:03:53] <crutchy> ud is funnier though
[00:04:15] <chromas> encyclopedia dramatica
[00:04:27] <chromas> because it abbreviates funnier
[00:04:31] <crutchy> lol hi chromas,arti
[00:04:38] <arti> a guilty pleasure is the obama page
[00:04:42] <arti> the voodoo economics
[00:04:45] <chromas> ~rainbow hey
[00:04:46] <exec> 00,08h00,09e00,12y
[00:04:48] <arti> the bush page is good too
[00:05:05] <chromas> I like the pedo bear one; Chris Hanseon slides in from the side
[00:05:10] <crutchy> ~define obama
[00:05:25] <exec> [urbandictionary] 3Obama: The Messiah for brain-dead Democrats.
[00:05:46] <arti> https://encyclopediadramatica.es
[00:05:48] <monopoly> 14└ 9God-Emperor of Blackkind, Black Jesus, Obama, Barack Obama, President Obama - Encyclopedia Dramatica
[00:05:50] <chromas> That doesn't sound urban
[00:06:14] <arti> append a yo to it?
[00:06:16] <crutchy> hmm should add that to sources
[00:06:35] <arti> figure a: https://images.encyclopediadramatica.es
[00:06:36] <chromas> arti: the urban dictionary one
[00:08:12] <chromas> lol
[00:08:17] <chromas> ⅗ final president
[00:09:15] <crutchy> yeah that ud for obama kinda sounds intelligent
[00:09:32] <crutchy> bad ud
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[00:22:04] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - New Research: The Higgs Boson Should Have Caused Universe to Collapse - http://sylnt.us - good-science
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[00:48:55] <Blackmoore> ok. hit burnout here. going home cya.
[00:49:01] <arti> laters Blackmoore
[00:49:06] Blackmoore is now known as blackmoore|afk
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[01:52:10] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - YouTube Terminates Top Indian News Network for Infringement - http://sylnt.us - potentially-infringing-news
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[01:59:00] <swiss> i should really set screen to autostart for me on boot
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[02:13:38] <SpallsHurgenson> "Home again, home again, jiggity jig. Good evening, #soylentnews!"
[02:15:03] <JamesNZ> \o SpallsHurgenson
[02:18:56] <paulej72> define should have a param to set which source to use as ~define bonce ud
[02:24:53] <SpallsHurgenson> that's what everybody says
[03:04:06] <SpallsHurgenson> hungry, need food.
[03:14:05] * SpallsHurgenson eats a microwaved burrito that just barely qualifies as food
[03:29:24] * chromas weeps for SpallsHurgenson
[03:29:39] <arti> :|
[03:29:47] <arti> try adding some ketchup to it
[03:30:08] <arti> that way you can take two half foods, and join them into one
[03:30:09] <SpallsHurgenson> weep for whoever uses the bathroom after me :)
[03:30:20] <arti> "teamwork"
[03:32:23] <SpallsHurgenson> now I want pie... except somebody ate the last piece last night
[03:32:27] <SpallsHurgenson> (the bastard!)
[03:41:31] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Federal Crackdown On For-Profit Colleges Claims Its First Victory - http://sylnt.us - alma-emptor
[04:04:10] * SpallsHurgenson smacks the internet "Go faster!"
[04:04:40] <chromas> "Neigh", said the internet
[04:05:05] <SpallsHurgenson> No, no! What you are doing now is SLOWER! I said FASTER!
[04:05:16] * SpallsHurgenson applies more percussive maintenance
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[04:34:53] juggs|afk is now known as juggs
[04:37:12] <juggs> ~rainbow rainbow
[04:37:13] <exec> 00,07r00,08a00,09i00,12n00,02b00,06o00,04w
[04:37:28] <juggs> that's very inclusive :D
[04:43:46] -!- Blackmoore|home [Blackmoore|home!~60f32a5e@hfig-50-902-18-91.bflony.east.verizon.net] has joined #Soylent
[04:43:54] <Blackmoore|home> hey
[04:44:10] <juggs> straw
[04:44:15] <Blackmoore|home> we've got bots sending in submissions.
[04:44:22] <juggs> we do?
[04:44:33] <Blackmoore|home> im looking at the list.
[04:44:46] <Blackmoore|home> kntjgrw fseahyg
[04:44:57] <Blackmoore|home> not exactly a title.
[04:45:27] <Popeidol> oh, awesome
[04:45:28] <juggs> lovely. I hope that doesn't mean the appearance of capchas is imminent
[04:45:33] <Popeidol> we've finally tapped the welsh market
[04:45:39] <juggs> :D :D
[04:45:57] <Blackmoore|home> well perhaps it is welsh..
[04:46:27] <Blackmoore|home> ylfkgfj qppvxry Buy viagra las vegas mailto:ngtfcuoqyd@ku
[04:46:28] <monopoly> 14└ 9Index of / ( http://localhost )
[04:46:42] <juggs> That's not welsh or any other gaelic dialect
[04:47:15] <Blackmoore|home> gibberish.
[04:47:16] <SpallsHurgenson> great, another soyvertisment! :)
[04:47:52] <Blackmoore|home> eh we could do that for april fools
[04:48:12] <juggs> Could it be any more spammy? Seriously - viagra, las vegas and a malformed email address
[04:48:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're just not famous unless you get spam
[04:49:14] <SpallsHurgenson> if this las vegas viagra stuff is on soylent, then I'm interested! tell me more!
[04:51:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> don't get your hopes up. the only thing soylent viagra makes stay up is NC so he can get more coding done.
[04:51:27] <Popeidol> soylent viagra: it makes people
[04:51:55] <SpallsHurgenson> selling medication to extend the sexual prowess of nerds who don't get any sex doesn't sound like a good business plan anyway :)
[04:52:28] <pbnjoe> hey guys, did you know that apparently "Esophageal achalasia swallowing difficulties nexium"
[04:52:45] <pbnjoe> news to me
[04:52:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> pbnjoe, i was unaware of this
[04:53:31] <pbnjoe> and apparently the submitter itself was caused by small intestine bacterial overgrowth
[04:53:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> SpallsHurgenson, sure it is. sell it to the porn companies who give it out for free.
[04:54:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> makes sense
[04:55:10] <Blackmoore|home> mm..
[04:57:53] <Blackmoore|home> well, i'm sure the editors will wipe those when they get to it.
[04:58:20] <SpallsHurgenson> unless they start using the Dice method of editing :)
[04:58:26] <Blackmoore|home> just suprising to see. seems like a specific "attack"
[04:58:53] <SpallsHurgenson> I blame Microsoft!
[04:58:57] <Blackmoore|home> like something poutine might suggest
[04:58:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> i blame poutine
[04:59:37] -!- rand has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[04:59:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> no idea if it was actually him but it smells like something he'd do. or possibly teen spirit.
[05:00:03] <Blackmoore|home> well here we are now..
[05:00:58] <SpallsHurgenson> Well ain't we a pair, raggedy man
[05:01:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm... wonder how the rainbow script handles stuff that's already colorized
[05:01:45] <SpallsHurgenson> don't do it; the universe might explode!
[05:02:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> no worries. been decades since i remembered how to do irc colors
[05:02:21] <SpallsHurgenson> <whew> we dodged a bullet there!
[05:02:37] * SpallsHurgenson doesn't want the universe to explode; it's where I keep all my stuff!
[05:03:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> isn't a really great universe. i mean for starters it's billions of years old. you wouldn't download a car that old.
[05:04:15] <Blackmoore|home> now now parts of it are always exploding.
[05:04:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> exactly. shoddy workmanship.
[05:05:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> the only reason i don't go find another is this one has the three Bs
[05:05:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> beer, bacon, and boobs.
[05:05:43] <Blackmoore|home> well, I'm off to do some shoddy minecrafting
[05:05:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> enjoy
[05:05:48] <SpallsHurgenson> maybe in your parts of the universe. Here in the realm of dark matter, everything is nice and cool. No explosions :)
[05:06:01] -!- Blackmoore|home has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[05:08:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> meh, think i'll go read a book
[05:08:45] * SpallsHurgenson plays his 1038th game of Freecell
[05:11:12] <SpallsHurgenson> 1039th :)
[05:11:24] <chromas> Are you playing from the beginning?
[05:11:41] <chromas> in numerical order
[05:11:43] <SpallsHurgenson> nah, I'm not that obsessed :)
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[05:30:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Google Glass Snoopers can Steal Your Passcode with a Glance - http://sylnt.us - Peak-Peeking
[05:33:32] <swiss> I don't understand the privacy concerns with glass
[05:33:52] <swiss> i mean, kids are gonna look back in 5 years and say "You idiots were concerned about *what?!*"
[05:34:10] <swiss> i mean... I CAN TALK TO THE INTERNET WITHOUT PLUGGING INTO THE WALL
[05:34:15] <swiss> hell...
[05:34:33] <swiss> I CAN TALK TO SOMEBODY ACROSS THE GLOBE, AND THEY CAN SEE ME LIKE I'M ACTUALLY THERE
[05:35:16] <SpallsHurgenson> I understand the problems people have with it; what I don't understand why people are making out like this is a new problem. We've sacrificed our privacy years ago
[05:35:29] <SpallsHurgenson> Glass is just the newest and most obvious example of that sacrifice
[05:36:21] <swiss> not even most obvious
[05:36:36] <SpallsHurgenson> I like Glass because - in a world that is increasingly becoming a surveillance society - Glass (and hopefully other iterations of the technology) will help bring some balance back
[05:36:55] <swiss> the most obvious would be the speakers on everyone's phones around you
[05:37:02] <SpallsHurgenson> if we have to be watched all the time, I'd prefer it be EVERYBODY watches EVERYBODY instead of just a select few watching everybody
[05:37:08] <swiss> which are often transmitting the sounds they hear, as they're on the phone
[05:37:12] <SpallsHurgenson> e.g., panopticon versus surveillance
[05:37:15] <swiss> or the MotoX, constantly listening
[05:38:47] * SpallsHurgenson often powers down his phone when he isn't using it.
[05:39:00] <SpallsHurgenson> haven't gotten to the point yet where I actually yank the battery though :)
[05:40:42] <swiss> heh
[05:40:51] <swiss> i'm not concerned about my privacy that much
[05:42:34] <SpallsHurgenson> I am. Not because I think I'm that interesting or people are paying attention, but because - thanks to the ease with which databases can be compiled - it is so easy to lose
[05:42:38] <Konomi> I think the privacy concern is there is no visual cue for when you're being recorded
[05:42:42] <swiss> SpallsHurgenson: https://twitter.com
[05:42:58] <swiss> Konomi: it's already true though
[05:43:06] <Konomi> if someone pulls out their smart phone points at you, you can easily tell what they're probably doing
[05:43:10] <Konomi> if it's glasses you cannot
[05:43:20] <swiss> do you know how many cameras you are always walking by
[05:43:26] <Konomi> I don't think it really matters anyway cause glass looks like it's going to tank
[05:43:28] <SpallsHurgenson> Konomi: I agree. The Glass should have a little red light to indicate it is in recording mode
[05:43:39] <swiss> and what I meant was that people aren't going to care in 5 years
[05:43:57] <swiss> are you as upset about glass as you are about the fact that anyone could be recording you with their cell phone's microphone?
[05:44:05] <Konomi> swiss: that's a whole other issue and I never like the "oh this is bad as well and we do it obviously we shouldn't worry about this other seperate but similar bad issue"
[05:44:32] <swiss> i'm not trying to justify it. Just pointing out the ridiculous uproar that this has brought up, simply because people have posted enough pictures on the internet and the recent NSA stuff
[05:44:39] <SpallsHurgenson> I don't like the fact that people can record me with their cell phones, no. But fighting it is tilting at windmills at this point
[05:45:06] <Konomi> and the reason most people don't care about mounted public cameras is two fold
[05:45:13] <Konomi> one they don't sit right next toy ou and follow you aorund
[05:45:30] <Konomi> two you can be pretty certain they're going to discard that recording once they run out of data
[05:45:48] * SpallsHurgenson cares about mounted public cameras...
[05:45:51] <Konomi> you could probably add three that everyone is getting equally filmed by them while glass it's a different treatment
[05:46:04] <SpallsHurgenson> konomi: I wouldn't count on "2" that much. Disk space is cheap :)
[05:46:20] <Konomi> SpallsHurgenson: at long distance you need high quality to be useful so not so much ;p
[05:46:27] <swiss> also, on 2, you think people are going to be saving all their glass data?
[05:46:43] <Konomi> which is more likely
[05:46:47] <swiss> if someone is intentionally recording you with glass they could achieve it much easier with a pinhole camera
[05:46:50] <Konomi> your fixed camera footage ends up on the internet
[05:46:55] <Konomi> or someones glass recording of you does
[05:47:03] <Konomi> also which would be more detailed etc.
[05:47:08] <Konomi> it's easy to see the difference
[05:47:15] <SpallsHurgenson> I think the -not entirely unjustified - fear is that in the long run, the recordings will be streamed up to Google and THEY will keep it forever
[05:48:23] <swiss> SpallsHurgenson: Google has seemed to be fairly open about what they collect, and opting out in my experience
[05:48:25] <SpallsHurgenson> after all, the true PROMISE of Glass-like technology is that it will be, essentially, a HUD for real-life... and that will probably require more processing power than a hand-held (or head-held) device can offer
[05:49:09] <SpallsHurgenson> so to get full functionality, they will HAVE to stream up everything, google-servers will analyze it, then feed the data-stream back down tot he HUD
[05:49:12] <Konomi> I mean if you got your phone strapped it to your head with duct tape and put it on record then walked into some public toilets it should be pretty obvious what the concern is ;p
[05:49:49] * SpallsHurgenson has a 1980s brick-style cellular phone; I'm not sure my neck could support the weight :)
[05:50:05] <Konomi> more duct tape
[05:50:09] <Konomi> just tell them you're being edgey
[05:50:14] <swiss> SpallsHurgenson: the day they get that real time, you'll have other issues to be worried about
[05:51:05] <swiss> Konomi: people walk into toilets with cameras hanging from their necks
[05:51:11] <swiss> those could be in record mode just as easily
[05:51:33] <Konomi> and I could imagine people being concenred about those as well
[05:51:43] <Konomi> we're hitting the whole
[05:52:01] <Konomi> 13:44 < Konomi> swiss: that's a whole other issue and I never like the "oh this is bad as well and we do it obviously we shouldn't worry about this other seperate but similar bad issue"
[05:52:04] <SpallsHurgenson> I hope you hit the hole when you go to the toilet :)
[05:52:05] <Konomi> this issue again
[05:52:36] <swiss> i'm saying with the streaming idea it's speculating far into the future
[05:52:48] <swiss> also, most of the arguments could be thrown against the "slippery slope" fallacy
[05:53:01] <SpallsHurgenson> I don't think it's that far into the future; it's probably in those "five years" you mentioned earlier
[05:53:42] <SpallsHurgenson> we see slippery slope/slow-boiling frogs all the time these days. I don't think it's wrong to try to head things off at the pass before they get too bad
[05:53:57] <Konomi> well laws do react to these things
[05:54:01] <SpallsHurgenson> the problem with the uproar about Glass is that it is too late for that sort of thing
[05:54:08] <swiss> honestly, I don't want to halt the advance of technology for anything
[05:54:08] <Konomi> it's quite easy to make laws that will curtail and polices to help
[05:54:14] <swiss> that's my overall opinion on this stuff
[05:54:21] <swiss> I love progress. In all fields
[05:54:47] <Konomi> that all depends on how you view advancement
[05:54:49] <swiss> I don't even care about most of NSA's spying for that reason. I do, however, care about NSL's being issued
[05:54:55] <Konomi> I see technology as a tool and benift for people
[05:55:03] <swiss> Konomi: can you honestly say with a straight face that Glass isn't advancement?
[05:55:04] <Konomi> when it's no longer forfilling that role it's not advancing
[05:55:17] <Konomi> I could say it's a royal flop so mabye not ;p
[05:55:25] <SpallsHurgenson> as I said, I'd rather not live in a world where there is ubiquitous surveillance, but - since that is already the world we live in - I'm all for giving the people the same power to watch as currently is held only by those in authority
[05:55:27] <Konomi> it isn't catching on and it probably won't
[05:55:35] <swiss> it's a flop because it's not perfect, and is overly pricey
[05:55:40] <swiss> and makes you look like a dickhead
[05:55:46] <Konomi> it's the same reason wrist watches are vanishing
[05:55:54] <swiss> yet coming back with the pebble :P
[05:55:57] <swiss> pebblemasterrace
[05:56:03] <Konomi> there's also huge segment of the population that does not like thinks constantly touching their skin
[05:56:31] <swiss> but with glass they're advancing facial recognition/Augmented Reality stuff
[05:56:37] <swiss> making devices smaller
[05:56:46] <swiss> advancing HUD technology
[05:56:49] <Konomi> I think oculos is advancing vr more than google glass is
[05:57:01] <Konomi> google glass was all about shoving a cell phone on your face for the most part
[05:57:04] <swiss> I didn't say VR
[05:57:10] <swiss> I said Augmented Reality
[05:57:13] <Konomi> I don't think many people find that appealing
[05:57:25] <Konomi> my bad ;p
[05:57:37] <swiss> I love the idea that I could look at the front of a store and possibly get a menu displayed on a HUD
[05:57:54] <swiss> or see directions as if they were actually displayed on the road
[05:58:22] <swiss> grocery list displayed in the corner when it realizes I'm at the grocery store
[05:58:30] <Popeidol> for me it's mostly about watching tv shows while driving
[05:58:32] <swiss> and automatically ticks off the items it sees me grab off the shelf
[05:58:49] <Konomi> Popeidol: when self driving cars become popular you won't need glass to do that ;p
[05:59:04] <Konomi> plus most laws about driving use broad terms for distractions
[05:59:04] <Popeidol> ah, so we just need the two futuristic things to arrive at the same time
[05:59:05] <chromas> Konomi: then where's the fun?
[05:59:10] <swiss> you already don't need that
[05:59:13] <Konomi> could easily fall fowl of them
[05:59:20] <swiss> i know a guy who puts a dvd player on his dash when he does long drives
[05:59:33] <swiss> I refuse to ride in his car, or even caravan with him
[05:59:38] <Konomi> lol
[05:59:42] <Konomi> I would to
[05:59:43] <swiss> but he hasn't had an accident in a while
[05:59:44] <SpallsHurgenson> nothing wrong with putting it on the dash. definitely an issue if he pushes play :)
[05:59:46] <Popeidol> I figure the anti-phone laws have made things less safe
[05:59:57] <Popeidol> because now people are still staring at their phones
[06:00:07] <swiss> pebble has actually really reduced my interest in using my phone when driving
[06:00:08] <Konomi> the anti phone laws suck for people who are good at multi tasking
[06:00:11] <Konomi> I personally hate them
[06:00:13] <Popeidol> they're just hiding the phone below the steering wheel
[06:00:16] <Konomi> but the world is populated by idiots
[06:00:17] <swiss> it's easy to glance at my wrist and see why my phone just buzzed
[06:00:22] <Konomi> willful ones at that
[06:00:29] <SpallsHurgenson> I've never met a person who has told me they AREN't good at multitasking :)
[06:00:29] <swiss> and i don't have an interest in responding to 90% of my texts
[06:00:36] <swiss> SpallsHurgenson: i'm not
[06:00:52] <swiss> and the guy I work with most at work rails at anyone who claims that he is
[06:00:53] <SpallsHurgenson> I've only met one person who has told me they AREN'T good at multitasking :)
[06:01:08] <swiss> lol
[06:01:19] <Konomi> I've meet plenty of people who suck at it
[06:01:28] <Konomi> but you mostly need a real world example to tell
[06:01:34] <Popeidol> I had a job that required pretty intense multitasking
[06:01:37] <SpallsHurgenson> I've met plenty of people who suck at it, but nobody admits to it.
[06:01:39] <Popeidol> which taught me that I am awful at it
[06:01:40] <Popeidol> just awful
[06:01:43] <swiss> i can multitask for short periods of time, and neither get even 50% effetiveness
[06:02:00] <swiss> but when my phone buzzes when i'm driving, I'm always curious
[06:02:18] <SpallsHurgenson> so barring a "license to cell-phone" test and permit, I'd rather we just ban it universally :)
[06:02:27] <Konomi> it's a shame voice technology is so negletcted
[06:02:42] <swiss> Konomi: google now is really improving on it
[06:02:43] <Konomi> heh license to cell phone test
[06:02:52] <Konomi> dude watch me take this corner while I text matt
[06:02:53] <Konomi> woot
[06:03:07] <swiss> they have a public site that you can do voice things with google
[06:03:19] <swiss> I only recently realized why they have such a baller text to speech engine
[06:03:20] <Konomi> it's not intergrated enough
[06:03:23] <swiss> GOOGLE VOICE VOICEMAILS
[06:03:23] <Konomi> and it never will be
[06:03:30] <swiss> google now is getting so much better
[06:03:40] <swiss> gonna be tied in with Nest and Chamberlain soon iirc
[06:03:53] <Konomi> I mean I have a talk from
[06:03:55] <Konomi> lets see
[06:04:17] <Konomi> h2k
[06:04:19] <Konomi> so 14 years ago
[06:04:26] <swiss> put it on youtube and try the autosubs
[06:04:42] <Konomi> and one of the talks is about how visually imparied people have trouble reading web sites because of the graphics heavy enviroments
[06:04:47] <Konomi> and it's still a problem now
[06:04:52] <Konomi> and if anything it's worse
[06:04:55] <Popeidol> flash dying has improved things a lot
[06:05:03] <Popeidol> but ajax and dynamically updating pages have made things worse
[06:05:13] <Konomi> where flash dies web 2.0 is coming to ruin it all over again
[06:05:19] <Popeidol> if you are blind, facebook's default interface is basically useless
[06:05:23] <Popeidol> you have to use the mobile interface
[06:06:24] <swiss> without flash, you could just try disabling some of the CSS
[06:06:26] <juggs> The web is and always has been clusterfuck for blind / sight impaired people - but solving it is not trivial.
[06:07:01] <Konomi> juggs: if you watch the video it was actually nirvana for visually imparied people
[06:07:10] <Konomi> right up until flash and web 2.0
[06:07:18] <Konomi> because early computing was mostly text consoles
[06:07:35] <Konomi> and the simple web that first came was also easy on them
[06:07:46] <Konomi> it's all the extra shiney shit that came after that mafde it horrible
[06:07:52] <swiss> eh
[06:08:00] <swiss> website design has always had its ups and downs
[06:08:30] <Konomi> https://www.youtube.com
[06:08:37] <Konomi> if anyone is interested it's still quite relevant
[06:09:02] <SpallsHurgenson> even from teh beginning it was a problem; I don't think there ever was a sight-impaired version of the <blink> tag
[06:09:29] <juggs> right - early computing and text consoles was pre Web, it was Internet. Then came Web - which was largely text based and people were considerate enough to provide decent ~alt~ tags for images to be descriptive. That consideration seems to have completely gone out of the window.
[06:09:35] <SpallsHurgenson> s/teh /the /
[06:09:35] <SedBot> <SpallsHurgenson> even from the beginning it was a problem; I don't think there ever was a sight-impaired version of the <blink> tag
[06:09:35] <Popeidol> SpallsHurgenson: screenreaders could thankfully ignore that tag
[06:10:42] <SpallsHurgenson> no, <blink> was a vital part of my website's design in the '90s! Blind people were missing out on the artistry of my web page about my dog!
[06:10:56] <Konomi> juggs: yep
[06:12:12] * SpallsHurgenson sheepishly goes off and starts adding alt tags to the images on his site
[06:12:39] <Konomi> ;p
[06:12:39] <Popeidol> I'm trying to remember this site I used to frequent which was basically a blind socialising/forum site
[06:12:42] <juggs> So maybe this isn't a technological problem at all, it's a human one. A general lack of consideration and empathy.
[06:12:45] <Konomi> remember alt tag is the image description
[06:12:47] <Popeidol> it was a beautiful example of what the blind web would be like
[06:13:04] <Konomi> it's never a technological one
[06:13:07] <Popeidol> absolutely nothing except text
[06:13:12] <Konomi> but since humeans make the technology it always is
[06:13:12] <Konomi> ;p
[06:13:21] <swiss> juggs: i have neither of those things
[06:13:22] <SpallsHurgenson> back when I hand-coded HTML, I always added ALT tags... nowadays, with GUIs, it's extra steps and clicks so I admit it, I don't bother
[06:13:26] <Konomi> not only is the empathy lacking on the content creators part
[06:13:36] <swiss> all my alt tags have just been the name of the image... like "img-large.jpg"
[06:13:41] <Konomi> but it's also lacking on behalf of a lot of people who design the technology
[06:13:54] <juggs> SpallsHurgenson, then you should be ashamed.
[06:14:09] <swiss> SpallsHurgenson: be a good dev and just code in something to make it easier on yourself
[06:14:17] <swiss> and spend more time making it than you will ever save using it
[06:14:29] <Konomi> almost all the images saved my hard drive are tagged in their file name ;p
[06:14:30] <SpallsHurgenson> if they put the field for alt tags on the same window as the path, I'd probably do better... but making me open another dialog box just slows me down too much :)
[06:14:40] <Popeidol> ah, here we go: https://www.zonebbs.com
[06:14:42] <Konomi> this is the sad part of not accounting for these things for blind people too
[06:14:51] <Konomi> all this shit people who can see would like to use too
[06:14:54] <Popeidol> that is a site designed to work great with screenreaders
[06:14:58] <Konomi> if it all worked you'd be listening to web pages in your car
[06:15:02] <Konomi> etc etc
[06:15:10] <SpallsHurgenson> great site for the blind; terrible site for those of us with sight :)
[06:15:14] <swiss> and publish it to github in hopes that maybe that time you spent making it wasn't totally wasted, because between the time you save using it and someone else uses it you might have done something worthwhile
[06:15:40] <Konomi> so really everyone is missing out in the long term
[06:15:46] <Konomi> it's just worse for those who cannot see
[06:15:52] <swiss> blind people have certain things that are never going to really work for them
[06:16:03] <Konomi> yes but things for them also work for us is the point
[06:16:06] <swiss> like driving
[06:16:15] <Konomi> we can enjoy our current mediums in new ways
[06:16:26] <juggs> swiss - so what fuck them on everything else too?
[06:16:28] <Konomi> the whole driving while listening to the web is desirable for people who can see
[06:16:33] <Konomi> and essential for those who cannot
[06:16:50] <Popeidol> Konomi: except the driving part
[06:17:09] <swiss> juggs: meh, if it's usable for them (while at a shittier value, i'll agree), I don't feel a great need to restrict myself to thing that work for them
[06:17:21] <swiss> I don't create my stuff specifically for people with downs either
[06:17:23] <swiss> or autism
[06:17:32] <swiss> or people that get infuriated by the color red
[06:17:43] <Konomi> swiss' website is not bull friendly
[06:17:46] <Popeidol> swiss: there are accessibility guidelines
[06:18:07] <swiss> Popeidol: i believe that stuff should be made as a business decision more than anything else
[06:18:31] <swiss> if you want blind users to use your site, make it blind user accessible
[06:18:56] <Popeidol> do you feel the same way about ramps into buildings?
[06:19:02] <swiss> if you really don't care that much about blind users, don't put in extra effort to accomodate them, and focus on the users you *are* geared towards
[06:19:05] <swiss> es
[06:19:07] * juggs dies a little inside
[06:19:08] <swiss> yes*
[06:19:12] <Popeidol> ah
[06:19:20] * Konomi pats juggs
[06:19:21] <Popeidol> I'm probably a little biased here, I work in the disability field
[06:19:22] <swiss> public areas are a different matter
[06:19:45] <Popeidol> but I'd consider the internet a private area
[06:19:52] <Popeidol> s/private/public/
[06:19:53] <SedBot> <Popeidol> but I'd consider the world wide web a public area
[06:20:06] <swiss> I'd consider government sites to be a public area
[06:20:16] <swiss> you pay for your domain name, and you create your own site
[06:20:27] <swiss> it's your house, and you decide who to share it with
[06:20:32] <Popeidol> sure
[06:20:54] <swiss> inside of buildings, I do agree against discrimination to a point, but I dislike laws forcing people to accomodate others that aren't part of their majority
[06:20:55] <Popeidol> but in making your site a public site rather than on a private network
[06:21:09] <Popeidol> you're basically opening the door to your house and saying 'hey everybody come in here'
[06:21:20] <swiss> I mean, being 6' tall, walking inside of lots of navy ships is difficult
[06:21:25] <swiss> with the low doors
[06:21:42] <swiss> but it doesn't mean they should change: They made it that way because it was the best overall decision for them
[06:22:19] <Popeidol> swiss: and there are standards for door height
[06:22:21] <swiss> and even if I open my house up to everyone, it doesn't mean I'm going to craft ramps all over my house and put a chair lift in on my stairs so a man in a wheelchair can get upstairs
[06:22:48] <swiss> what about wheelchairs on naval ships?
[06:23:04] <SpallsHurgenson> I don't think they make wheelchairs big enough for ships
[06:23:08] <Popeidol> a naval ship is private.
[06:23:16] <Popeidol> you are specifically allowing only employees on and off
[06:23:23] <swiss> but they're often opened up to the public for things
[06:23:26] <swiss> like the USS Midway
[06:23:38] <swiss> just like a site
[06:23:55] <Landon> speaking of the midway: http://www.midway.org
[06:23:56] <monopoly> 14└ 9Accessibility Always a Priority | USS Midway Aircraft Carrier Museum San Diego
[06:24:26] <swiss> Landon: yeah, but after being on it, the majority of the ship isn't wheelchair accessible
[06:24:29] <swiss> only a few key areas
[06:25:15] <Landon> ah
[06:25:21] <Popeidol> I'm not saying that all websites should be forced to be accessible by law, that would be unenforceable
[06:25:41] <Popeidol> but I do think it's something to keep in mind when you're designing
[06:26:00] <swiss> I agree. You should consider whether you care if you have blind customers
[06:26:26] <swiss> A banking site? Probably should have a "sight impaired" version
[06:26:33] <swiss> Youtube? Why bother?
[06:26:45] <juggs> music?
[06:26:49] <Popeidol> haha
[06:26:58] <SpallsHurgenson> Porntube?
[06:27:06] <juggs> braille porn
[06:27:09] <Popeidol> trust me
[06:27:10] <juggs> yes it exists
[06:27:12] <swiss> juggs: plenty of other music streaming platforms. And if they actually care, sure they can
[06:27:13] <Popeidol> the blind spend a lot of time on youtube
[06:27:18] <chromas> "bump bump"; oh yeah
[06:27:27] <swiss> .... .. . . . . . . .. .....
[06:27:28] <Popeidol> youtube is actually quite accessible
[06:27:37] <swiss> i'm not surprised, simply because google
[06:27:40] <chromas> swiss: stop! There could be kids in here
[06:27:47] <swiss> chromas: oops
[06:28:07] <chromas> They'd feel uncomfortable feeling that in front of their parents
[06:28:23] <swiss> i see it like having multiple languages in stores
[06:28:32] * SpallsHurgenson has a sudden image of Samuel L Jackson narrating porn for the blind
[06:29:07] <chromas> "anal, motherfucker! Do you speak it?"
[06:29:18] <SpallsHurgenson> "And now the gentleman with the pizza is dropping his trousers. Oh my, he has a large dingly-dong. I mean, I'm a black man and I'm impressed. The lady apparently is no longer interested in the pizza."
[06:29:49] <swiss> https://imgur.com
[06:29:50] <monopoly> 14└ 9 Heavy Lift Ship - Imgur
[06:29:54] * SpallsHurgenson smells smoke
[06:30:04] <swiss> i want one of those
[06:31:11] <juggs> swiss - of course it's not practical to have wheelchair bound or blind people navigating frigates or subs in active combat roles. But that's pretty damn niche, so I think we can let that slide. But I do feel that for the betterment of humanity as a whole it would serve us all to make the websites we vomit up accessible to all. I think we are going to disagree on this as you seem to be approaching things purely with a profit motivation.
[06:33:35] <swiss> more of a "effort" motivation
[06:33:36] * SpallsHurgenson sniffs in all the room and comes to the somewhat uncertain conclusion that the smoke is coming from outside... I hope
[06:34:28] <swiss> same reason I am annoyed at people bitching about a lack of features in any form of open source software: The devs could have given you nothing, but they gave you *something*
[06:35:26] <Popeidol> except it's not really a feature, the people who bitch about accessibility are completely unable to use the product
[06:35:43] <swiss> i mean, when a site is ugly and unusable for me, I don't give them my business. But I don't think the devs are bad people for doing it.
[06:35:43] <juggs> I'm not sure what you mean by " "effort" motivation" swiss.
[06:35:43] <Popeidol> it's a case of 'it's nice you've done that, but I can't use it'
[06:36:21] <swiss> juggs: it's not their duty to go through effort for a group of people that are in a minority if they are an optional service/benefit
[06:37:34] <swiss> I see too many things approached in a "This is wrong because XXXX" type way, when I see them as a "Whoa, someone made this work" type thing
[06:38:18] <Popeidol> swiss: I get that. I'm 6'7". most clothes and doors and cars aren't made with me in mind.
[06:38:31] <Popeidol> it's annoying, but I don't hold it against them. I can get the same thing somewhere else.
[06:38:56] <swiss> and it's the same motivation I had earlier with advancement: If the people are trying to make new things, and we want to encourage advancement, we shouldn't be claiming sites are "bad" because they don't cater to everyone
[06:39:28] <Popeidol> but with websites, a lot of the time saying 'somebody else will see the market and target them' basically amounts to segregation. so the blind cant use facebook? they can go and start their own blind-friendly site. so they cant use youtube? they can create their own video ecosystem elsewhere.
[06:39:39] <Konomi> I'm with juggs on this, being inclusive is an advancement in my eyes
[06:39:42] <swiss> if a blind person wants to come on to the site, and email the creator and say "Hey, I'm blind, and I've heard your site is awesome and I'd love to use it"
[06:39:51] <swiss> Konomi: I'm not talking about "social advancement"
[06:39:56] <swiss> or 'society advancing"
[06:40:01] <swiss> i'm talking about technological advancement
[06:40:10] * juggs sighs
[06:40:27] <swiss> and there can be technological advancement that helps those with impairments
[06:40:27] <Konomi> neither was I
[06:41:01] <Konomi> there is value in having as many inputs and sources of information as possible
[06:41:16] <arti> https://www.youtube.com
[06:41:16] <monopoly> 14└ 9What We've Got Here is Failure to Communicate - YouTube
[06:41:26] <Konomi> having more people being able to participate has advantages for me
[06:41:33] <juggs> arti++
[06:41:33] <Bender> karma - arti: 53
[06:41:52] <Konomi> the logic is there to even see the advantages from a selfish perspective ;p
[06:42:02] * arti eats his berries
[06:42:20] <swiss> yes. But if the person is not interested in exploring that direction (like I have no interest in making my site blind compatible) why would we want to drive someone away from creating something because they don't want to fulfill those requirements
[06:42:54] <swiss> "If you create a site, you should make it HTML5 compatible, blind accessible, hard of hearing friendly, and compatible with all these browsers"
[06:42:58] <Konomi> neither would I but I would prefer there to be some easy standard or tools that incorporate it in the firs tplace
[06:43:19] <Konomi> why should the end designer need to do all the work? no no no we need the stardards there in the first place so it is a trival thing for them to do
[06:43:25] <swiss> that would be seperate advancement imo. Not a "this policy should be pushed towards sites"
[06:43:43] <juggs> For the human specie to exist long term we have to evolve past this tribal inclusivity / exclusivity crap. You are merely extending the timeline of that construct swiss. Try to think a little bit outside your3own bubble.
[06:44:00] <Konomi> juggs++ \o/
[06:44:00] <Bender> karma - juggs: 10
[06:44:15] <Konomi> feel like I am freaking karma upping a crude term for boobs
[06:44:18] * Konomi hides
[06:44:31] <swiss> though I'm not against blind or deaf people, we've existed long term without any special effort being made to take care of the blind or deaf
[06:44:37] <swiss> nor most of the minority groups
[06:44:43] <juggs> what????
[06:44:49] <swiss> we've existed for centuries
[06:44:50] <Popeidol> ah, so it's survival of the fittest now?
[06:45:03] <swiss> centuries
[06:45:23] <Popeidol> if you're about to tell me that we should be emulating tribes that let people die when they were too much effort, I'm going to have to disagree
[06:45:37] <juggs> I have no idea what hellhole you live in swiss but we have long had social care for deaf / blind / disabled of all nature where I reside
[06:45:40] <Konomi> we existed for centuries without curing dieseases either
[06:45:46] <swiss> juggs: i'm not talking the last 100 years
[06:45:56] <swiss> because you brought up the human specie
[06:45:58] <swiss> and long term
[06:46:45] <swiss> afaik there weren't great efforts being made to take care of the blind in ancient greece
[06:47:11] <swiss> so it is not a requirement for advancement of a specie
[06:47:39] <juggs> >.>
[06:47:42] <juggs> <.<
[06:47:50] <juggs> da fuq
[06:47:53] <swiss> that's more of a recent construct. And I'm not against it, I believe inclusiveness is good. I believe forcing people into inclusiveness, and shaming them for not being inclusive is bad.
[06:48:42] <Popeidol> swiss: so you are of a libertarian leaning? let the free market decide?
[06:49:06] <swiss> Popeidol: yeah. I believe that any support for other groups should be a personal choice
[06:49:10] <juggs> So because it was not done or mandated a thousand years ago, it should not be done now? wth was your point with the ancient greek stuff? btw - that greek empire failed....
[06:49:21] <swiss> juggs: but the human specie did not die
[06:49:32] <swiss> 21:43:44 < juggs> For the human specie to exist long term we have to evolve past this tribal inclusivity / exclusivity crap. You are merely extending the timeline of that construct swiss. Try to think a little bit outside your3own bubble.
[06:50:00] <Popeidol> swiss: interestingly, the civilisation that felt that way did die
[06:50:16] <swiss> and also made a ton of technological advancements
[06:50:21] <Popeidol> sure
[06:50:26] <Popeidol> and we're making a whole bunch while being more inclusive
[06:50:35] <swiss> you're living in a civilization less than 300 years old
[06:50:38] <swiss> if you're in the US
[06:50:39] <Popeidol> we can't really do a double-blind test here, since we dont have any spare civilisations
[06:50:59] <swiss> so I don't think you can say "This is why we survived"
[06:51:01] <Konomi> unfortantly I don't keep one of those in my hand bag
[06:51:25] <Popeidol> swiss: I'm not saying it's how we survived, or that it had any impact at all on the fall of greece
[06:51:50] <Popeidol> I'm just confused by what your argument is right now
[06:52:03] <swiss> I'm merely stating that the argument that it has anything to do with our survival of a specie has no base in history for it
[06:52:09] <juggs> no, we did not die. but we lost an awful lot of literature and knowledge. As with the falling of the persians, egyptians, ottomans, mayans - every time a civilisation falls to ruin we lose accumulated human knowledge. And every time it is divisive tribal bullshit that brings it down.
[06:52:14] <swiss> especially when it hasn't been followed, and we've survived thousands of years
[06:52:54] <swiss> Tons of civilizations fell because of plays for power.
[06:53:29] <swiss> And discriminating is quite different than not making additional efforts to be inclusive
[06:53:53] <swiss> I mean, painters don't write an essay about each painting, describing it to the blind
[06:54:17] <Popeidol> no, but TV shows do put subtitles on to cater to the deaf
[06:54:17] <swiss> and requiring them to do that, or shaming them for not doing that would be absolutely ridiculous imo
[06:54:33] <swiss> Popeidol: and the hard of hearing... and the sports bars that like to play TV's without audio
[06:54:45] <swiss> and i'm fairly certain it's the third group that caused them to make that decision
[06:55:27] -!- SpallsHurgenson has quit [Quit: on fire]
[06:56:55] <swiss> juggs: do you follow this every time you write? http://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk
[06:56:57] <monopoly> 14└ 9Dyslexia Style Guide- About Dyslexia- The British Dyslexia Association
[06:58:26] <swiss> if you're talking about catering to the blind, you should be catering to the dyslexic, as they're a pretty sizable population
[06:58:55] <swiss> no white backgrounds, no dark backgrounds
[06:59:18] <swiss> no underlining or italics
[07:03:10] <juggs> If I ever posted my own ramblings on sites under my control as to style or presentation, yes I would make damn sure they are accessible to everyone regardless. I've yet to ramble a monologue I think worthy of attention.
[07:05:27] <swiss> i meant for any form of web design
[07:05:32] <swiss> do you use white backgrounds?
[07:06:22] <Popeidol> swiss: the difference is, if you use a white background somebody with dyslexia may only be slightly impaired. they'll probably still get most of your content.
[07:06:57] <Popeidol> if you design your website to be inaccessible, it is pretty much just inaccesible
[07:07:28] <swiss> your content becomes much more inaccessible to them
[07:07:38] <swiss> combine that with the formatting guides on italics and underlines
[07:07:52] <swiss> narrow column rules
[07:07:57] <Konomi> would be easy to have a toggle style so I don't see the issue
[07:08:05] <swiss> also, the dyslexic population is MUCH greater than the blind population
[07:08:14] <Konomi> though I'd be more in favour of a browser plugin in this situation
[07:08:23] <Konomi> I think it'd cover more bases
[07:08:23] <Popeidol> most of the dyslexia advice is pretty much standard readability guidlines, tbh
[07:08:45] <Popeidol> a lot of it is the default in most things that display content
[07:09:14] <Popeidol> websites that go for right-justified text on a black background aren't very common
[07:09:51] <swiss> why not write a browser plugin to make sites more readable by the blind
[07:10:18] <juggs> browser plugin or CSS alternation, it results in the same thing. It's not much effort to do if you extrapolate content from presentation.
[07:10:21] <swiss> but don't place it on the site developer, like it's expected to him
[07:10:38] <Konomi> I already use css overides on a lot of annoying sites ;p
[07:10:38] <Popeidol> swiss: screenreaders already interpret teh content in the best way they can.
[07:10:52] <Popeidol> A browser plugin would not add much to the situation.
[07:11:05] <Konomi> for example
[07:11:06] <Konomi> a#btn_tumblr { display: none !important }
[07:11:27] <swiss> but we're talking about whether inclusiveness should be expected of sites
[07:12:02] <swiss> so imo that's the duty of the people interested in that inclusiveness, not of the devs of the sites
[07:12:24] <swiss> so if your plugin/screenreader can already do it, why is it still being placed on the developer?
[07:12:28] <juggs> the devs should make inclusiveness possible if that is your stance
[07:12:53] <swiss> I would agree that they shouldn't take efforts to *break* inclusiveness
[07:12:59] <Popeidol> it comes down to: If you have done something blatantly inaccessible in your site, I do not have access to fix that.
[07:13:07] <Popeidol> swiss: it's a lot easier to make an accessible site than not.
[07:13:23] <swiss> it's a lot easier to make a site than make an accessible site
[07:13:46] <Popeidol> it's when you start adding fancy features that things start going wrong
[07:14:13] <swiss> so people shouldn't add fancy features simply because 60,000 people in the US cannot use those features?
[07:14:25] <swiss> that's where I have issue with it
[07:14:26] <ar> coffee--
[07:14:26] <Bender> karma - coffee: 292
[07:15:12] <swiss> or people should force themselves to consider that part of the population when coding their features?
[07:15:29] <Popeidol> firstly: the internet is wider than the us, and secondly: nobody is saying you cant use fancy features, merely that you should think about what they add vs take away
[07:15:45] <juggs> So give it an ~alt~ tag and a "click here" link - what the hell is so hard to grasp about this... no-one is asking you spend years of your life going out of your way.
[07:16:02] <swiss> juggs: i'm comenting on the general shaming going on towards this
[07:16:30] <swiss> it's totally against advancement, and is the reason I refuse to write production code at work
[07:16:47] <Popeidol> oh, and thirdly: you are counting the population of people declared legally blind. there are a lot more people who're a little less impaired.
[07:17:14] <swiss> yes. But I'm counting 60,000 legally blind vs 313.9 million
[07:17:34] <swiss> lets say it's triple that number
[07:17:48] <swiss> that's 0.06% of the population
[07:18:10] <swiss> so your website is written in an accessible format for 99.94% of the population
[07:18:27] <swiss> and you're being shamed for having bits inaccessible to 0.06%
[07:18:56] <swiss> and you're being pushed into developing your code differently than you normally would, for that small small percentage
[07:19:17] <Popeidol> to be honest, it helps everybody
[07:19:29] <Popeidol> anything you write that's accessible to teh blind is also really accessible to google
[07:19:50] <swiss> google has figured out how to scrape these pages without assistance from all the pages
[07:20:11] <swiss> sure, some pages throw shitty SEO in there to try to make it easier to scrape because they want to be in the search results
[07:20:29] <swiss> but google figured out how to scrape the stuff they're interested in
[07:20:37] <juggs> where are we going now? SEO
[07:21:03] <swiss> just heading off an argument about "accessible for google"
[07:21:25] <juggs> Umm no... you reversed the point.
[07:21:36] <swiss> no
[07:22:09] <swiss> people put SEO in there to make it easier for google to scrape. But the majority of my real search results weren't scraped from SEO
[07:22:34] <swiss> so google figured out how to scrape even without SEO ( or, in many cases, in spite of SEO crap)
[07:22:35] <Popeidol> the majority of your results were from pages that put some thought into whether a search engine would be indexing them.
[07:22:53] <Popeidol> or the frameworks they built off did it ahead of time
[07:23:42] <swiss> How would the blind pages help it any more than it is now?
[07:24:04] <juggs> Just because google in their magnificence can scrape the content from whatever format of crap was on the page does not mean that your average JAWS user is going to have much luck sense of the same page. Funy that.
[07:24:33] <Popeidol> it depends on the site. but both google and a screenreader are programs attempting to interpret what your webpage is. making things work for one makes it a little easier for the other.
[07:24:38] <swiss> juggs: i'm saying the "It'd make it more accessible for google" isn't necessary
[07:24:42] <swiss> google figured out how to do that on their own
[07:24:56] <swiss> maybe the devs for the blind readers need to just do that
[07:25:26] <Popeidol> trust me, they do.
[07:26:07] <swiss> the only sane way to have a "Blind friendly" site would be to have it as another "mobile version" style site imo
[07:26:51] <juggs> lol yes, the blind readers have the discretionary, disposable income of google to chuck at problems.
[07:27:21] <swiss> so because they don't have the funds, we should do it for them?
[07:27:25] <Popeidol> swiss: the 'mobile' or 'classic' version of sites is a pretty good backup, yes
[07:27:38] <swiss> Popeidol: i mean that they'd have to develop a WWHOLE NEW FRONTEND for this
[07:27:52] <Popeidol> do you have a site in mind you're thinking of?
[07:28:00] <Popeidol> soylentnews, for instance, is pretty damn acessible
[07:28:05] <swiss> fb, lifehacker, steam store
[07:28:08] <swiss> youtube
[07:28:15] <Popeidol> lifehacker is quite accessible, youtube is too
[07:28:22] <swiss> soylent news is a 90's site
[07:28:23] <Popeidol> fb is pretty awful because it does dynamic updates all over the place
[07:29:06] <Popeidol> it was pretty accessible back around 07 or 08, if I recall
[07:29:16] <swiss> we can pull one out of my currently open tabs
[07:29:17] <swiss> http://www.chamberlain.com
[07:29:17] <monopoly> 14└ 9Garage Door Openers | Chamberlain Do-It-Yourself Products
[07:30:23] <juggs> swiss, no I am not suggesting you do it for them, I am suggesting you do not lay great minefields in their path when it is a minor inconvenience not to do so.
[07:30:47] <Popeidol> I don't have jaws handy, but I don't see anything on that page that's too much of a problem
[07:31:04] <Popeidol> should be just fine in a screenreader
[07:31:31] <Popeidol> the menu at the top maybe not, but that's why they have the site map at the bottom of the page
[07:31:44] <swiss> juggs: i believe expectaitons like this are minefields in the path of new web features
[07:34:36] <swiss> say i just invented a live updating stock ticker that had live news stories about that company below in nodejs,
[07:34:43] <swiss> that's totally not blind friendly
[07:36:27] <Popeidol> you are taking content that is available elsewhere adn putting it in a less-accessible format
[07:36:38] <Popeidol> not a big issue for them, you just lose a small percentage of market share
[07:36:48] <Popeidol> the issue is when the only copies of information are in inaccessible places
[07:37:17] <Popeidol> and the fact that you're able to pull that data from somewhere is probably due to how accessible somebody made it in the first place.
[07:38:42] <swiss> that's a pretty flimsy argument imo. You can create something not blind accessible as long as the sources might be?
[07:39:01] <Popeidol> I'm just saying it's not a problem at that point.
[07:42:09] <juggs> swiss - yet again you put profitability (a stock ticker) ahead of human specie advancement. That ticker is irrelevant, the stock market is irrelevant. In time it will be gone, failed, no more, razed to the ground by greed. What then for your progeny? Rebuild a lost civilisation? I don't think you are seeing the bigger picture.
[07:42:12] <Popeidol> that's an example where you are, as you said before, creating a whole new front end. there are other front ends for the same data that are accessible.
[07:44:00] <swiss> juggs: wat?
[07:44:10] <swiss> lol
[07:46:30] <juggs> If you care to elaborate on what you don't understand I will be happy to elucidate the finer points swiss.
[07:47:11] <swiss> where you are strictly focusing on societal advancement when i'm strictly talking about technological advancement
[07:48:15] <swiss> a good indicator of the difference is war funding goes towards developing new weapons, which can be seen as counter-societal advancement
[07:48:42] <swiss> yet often can result in breakthroughs with science that apply to other areas
[07:49:44] <swiss> like medicine
[07:50:09] <swiss> so that nodejs page for the stock ticker could later be used as a base for a medical center, live updating patient info
[07:50:38] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Researchers Study the Science of Hangovers - http://sylnt.us - Under-the-Table
[07:51:41] <swiss> hell, dynamic content as a whole is kinda anti-blind
[07:51:56] <swiss> but it's made the web more usable for me personally
[07:53:32] <juggs> with no societal advancement those technological advancements you worked so hard at will all be lost come the next big do over. Wouldn't it be better to prevent the next big do over?
[07:54:09] <swiss> should i only focus my efforts on that, when that's not what will inspire me most?
[07:54:32] <swiss> Without our research in rockets for bombing each other, we would have had a lot of issues getting to the moon
[07:58:03] -!- pbnjoe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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[08:03:31] <juggs> You should focus your efforts on what you want to do and what inspires you.
[08:08:50] <juggs> As for the moon - the moon was a target, a competition, a bullseye - two factions somehow decided that was a good distraction, and it did produce numerous side products, as the race to get there went on both parties produced all manner of materials and concoctions, some good, some not so good. We learnt in time. But now I fear we are stagnating, with no targets to aim for.
[08:10:56] <swiss> I feel like any new idea that spawns new ideas is advancement
[08:11:24] <swiss> anything that discourages people from implementing or creating their new ideas is counter-advancement
[08:26:11] <juggs> Is that what this about? No-one here (I think.. wow that's bold of me to speak on behalf of all!) would discourage experimentation. You need to define "advancement" for yourself - what have you advanced? Are you merely recreating a wheel that has been created and destroyed a thousand times over? What lead to that destruction? Why did it fail? Questioning is good, but asking the same questions over and over again with no regard to the answers serves
[08:26:11] <juggs> no purpose.
[08:38:06] juggs is now known as juggs|afk
[08:47:24] -!- Subsentient [Subsentient!~WhiteRat@universe2.us/Subsentient] has joined #Soylent
[09:07:15] -!- Konomi has quit [Quit: leaving]
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[09:19:01] <Popeidol> so uh
[09:20:35] <Popeidol> looks like spalls is probably dead guys
[09:20:58] <Popeidol> 12:29 * SpallsHurgenson smells smoke
[09:20:59] <Popeidol> 12:33 * SpallsHurgenson sniffs in all the room and comes to the somewhat uncertain conclusion that the smoke is coming from outside... I hope
[09:21:02] <Popeidol> 12:55 -!- SpallsHurgenson [~SpallsHur@joav-66-227-224-51.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: on fire]
[09:21:14] <swiss> maybe
[09:21:15] <swiss> we can hope
[09:21:18] <swiss> :P
[09:21:32] <arti> authentic rustic scents
[09:22:44] <crutchy> he lives in wa. sharks with lasers?
[09:23:31] <crutchy> oh woops. popeidol lives in wa. i have nfi where spalls is
[09:24:05] <Popeidol> the nwrknj.east.verizon.net is a bit of a hint
[09:24:07] <Subsentient> Popeidol: That is... unsettling.
[09:24:26] <Subsentient> I hope there was no fire there.
[09:24:28] <Popeidol> anyone know if newark is on fire?
[09:24:55] <Subsentient> No, it just smells like used rubbers and radioactive waste, commonly mistaken for smoke.
[09:25:18] * Subsentient reviles New Jersey
[09:26:00] <Popeidol> you and every television show ever made
[09:27:30] <crutchy> maybe by 'on fire' he meant that he was doing exceedingly well at whatever he was doing
[09:30:05] <crutchy> or maybe the new war of the worlds movie was really a doco of things to come
[09:30:39] <Popeidol> he finally figured out the HCF opcode
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[09:52:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Ask Soylent: How would you prepare for a Pandemic? - http://sylnt.us - Doomsday-Preppers
[10:18:08] -!- pbnjoe has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[10:21:49] <NCommander> Um
[10:21:51] <NCommander> holy crap
[10:21:53] <NCommander> We're on gnu.org
[10:21:54] <NCommander> https://www.gnu.org
[10:21:55] <monopoly> 14└ 9SN: " ( proprietary-tyrants.html )
[10:22:11] <NCommander> (the link to Intel Processors links right to us)
[10:26:06] <JamesNZ> Awesome :D
[10:34:19] <crutchy> trouble sleeping?
[10:47:55] <NCommander> crutchy, kinda sorta
[10:48:12] <NCommander> Subsentient, NJ is the depressing side of the Holland Tunnel
[10:48:53] <Subsentient> NCommander: You won't believe me
[10:49:00] <Subsentient> I am the reason SN is on the GNU page.
[10:49:04] <NCommander> Subsentient, !
[10:49:06] <Subsentient> I wrote Stallman about it a few months ago
[10:49:13] <NCommander> Subsentient, that's scary
[10:49:19] <Subsentient> And true.
[10:49:26] <NCommander> No, writing Stallman
[10:49:37] * NCommander notes dealing with rms is ... unique
[10:49:38] <crutchy> Subsentient: you you the "big cheese"?
[10:49:41] <Subsentient> He said he'd look into it or something if I recall his words. Never heard back until the site update.
[10:49:54] <crutchy> s/you t/know t/
[10:49:54] <SedBot> <crutchy> Subsentient: you know the "big cheese"?
[10:49:54] <NCommander> Subsentient, some part of me wonders if he lurks on the site these days
[10:50:02] <Subsentient> lol
[11:02:58] <crutchy> i can imagine torvalds lurking... rms seems more of the 'hairyfeet' type
[11:41:31] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - U.S. Government Uses Foreign "Aid" to Force Countries to Buy GMO Seeds - http://sylnt.us - a-seedy-business
[11:58:59] * NCommander has decided where he's going to live for awhile
[11:59:01] <NCommander> Off to Alaska with me
[11:59:39] <crutchy> no more nh?
[12:03:39] <NCommander> crutchy, deferred for at least six mnths to a year
[12:03:49] <NCommander> and if I need to live somewhere, I'm going to go live in my favorite state in the union
[12:04:23] <crutchy> too cold in alaska
[12:05:45] <NCommander> Alaska is fucking awesomesauce
[12:30:03] -!- HopeWaffles [HopeWaffles!~c654e271@288-43-435-327.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #Soylent
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[12:43:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[12:43:56] <Bender> karma - coffee: 293
[12:50:23] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - No Fly List Ruled Unconstitutional - http://sylnt.us - fly-in-the-ointment
[12:50:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> ewww, bad headline
[12:51:42] * Azrael offers his wrist for slapping
[12:54:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> wasn't the law that got slapped down, was the means to get off of the list.
[12:55:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> specifically that there was not what amounted to due process
[12:56:05] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~janrinok@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok] has joined #Soylent
[12:56:05] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v janrinok] by juggler
[12:56:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin, janrinok
[12:58:24] <crutchy> news @ 11: flies have constitutional rights too!
[12:59:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> mine has the right to bare arms. at least when i need to open it to have a whiz.
[13:09:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> dig it. h265 encode with crf=25 looks as good as h264 with crf=20 and lets you fit a whole 1:20 movie in under 250MB
[13:10:32] <crutchy> is that divx?
[13:11:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, h265. eventual replacement for h264
[13:12:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> currently takes about 8-10x as long to encode though
[13:16:29] <chromas> NCommander: ping
[13:17:41] <chromas> he's probably freezing in AK now
[13:18:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> prolly still waiting in the security line at the airport
[13:19:21] <chromas> TheMightyBuzzard: check #staff
[13:19:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> what, the spam?
[13:20:06] <chromas> You have sys access right?
[13:20:24] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[13:21:33] <chromas> I think 'they' were wanting someone from sys to peek at it
[13:21:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> only on dev at the moment. dunno if I could get there with kerb but pretty sure i'm not supposed to.
[13:24:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> awe hell, not going to be able to get rss working right with utf8 this morning. gotta go get my head shrunk in a bit.
[13:30:31] <crutchy> hi chromas
[13:31:07] <chromas> Hi crutchy
[13:32:24] <chromas> Saw you doing some testing earlier
[13:32:38] <crutchy> the blah tests?
[13:33:31] <chromas> Yeah. Refactoring exec with Delphi objects, right?
[13:33:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh ya, reminds me. monopoly borked over a mailto address earlier.
[13:33:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> like mailto:foo@bar.com
[13:34:00] <crutchy> lol
[13:34:12] <crutchy> @refactorijg
[13:34:22] <crutchy> ^ing
[13:35:01] <crutchy> does monopoly recognise mailto as well?
[13:35:09] <chromas> Saw and fixed. Should only do http now
[13:35:42] <crutchy> http://mailto:admin@chromas.org
[13:35:46] <crutchy> aww
[13:35:57] <crutchy> :-P
[13:35:58] <chromas> For some reason it prepended it with http which made it get a redirect
[13:36:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> weird
[13:38:21] <chromas> Not sure if kvirc or curl but I'm about to upgrade it to all Pascal code :D
[13:41:22] <crutchy> pascal++
[13:41:22] <Bender> karma - pascal: 4
[13:41:42] <crutchy> it might give ol' aqu4 a run for its money
[13:41:51] <chromas> With objects and hookers
[13:42:15] <crutchy> objectified pointy hookers
[13:42:26] -!- Subsentient has quit [Quit: Derp.]
[13:42:30] <crutchy> objectified hookers with pointers
[13:43:12] <chromas> I guess we scared him away
[13:43:28] <crutchy> maybe gone to convert to pascal :-P
[13:44:23] <chromas> Does c have sets?
[13:45:12] <crutchy> dunno. i have 'a book on c' but its in the bookshelf. i would have to get off the couch to get it
[13:45:23] <chromas> Don't do that
[13:45:41] <crutchy> had no such intentions :-P
[13:45:53] <chromas> I abuse sets and ranges in Pascal
[13:46:53] <crutchy> i think c may have whatever a component of a set is called. i can't remember off the top of my head
[13:46:57] <crutchy> has na e in it
[13:47:12] <crutchy> en...
[13:47:16] <crutchy> something
[13:47:16] <chromas> Enumeration
[13:47:31] <crutchy> dunno. whatever its called anyway
[13:47:43] <crutchy> but not sure if it has sets of them
[13:50:43] <crutchy> enumerated types yeah
[13:51:04] <crutchy> handy having debian in a vm on top of windows.. delphi is a couple of clicks away :-)
[13:51:08] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Life is an Algorithm - http://sylnt.us - Feature-not-a-Bug
[13:51:38] <chromas> Delphi++
[13:51:38] <Bender> karma - delphi: 6
[13:51:46] <crutchy> delphi__
[13:51:50] <crutchy> delphi++
[13:51:50] <Bender> karma - delphi: 7
[13:51:57] <crutchy> ^what i use :-P
[13:52:15] <crutchy> well, delphi 7 pro
[13:53:38] <crutchy> the last version before it started going full retard
[13:56:16] <chromas> I read it for better recently, with a new, portable widget set that also runs on android and apple os
[13:56:30] <chromas> s/for/got/
[13:56:31] <SedBot> <chromas> I read it got better recently, with a new, portable widget set that also runs on android and apple os
[13:58:27] <crutchy> it prolly is better... i just like simple though. the newer versions are a bit fancy
[14:00:59] <chromas> B.b.but you have money and they need it! Are you going to deprive their childrens?
[14:01:52] <crutchy> borland.... i mean inprise.... i mean embarcardo... i mean.... whoever owns them now
[14:02:56] <crutchy> gedit does nice pascal syntax highlighting.... but there's just no F9 key... i *need* that key :-P
[14:03:50] <chromas> Can't set up a compile/exec shortcut? :(
[14:05:04] <chromas> I was researching irc color codes earlier. There was a less retarded system by ircle but it didn't get picked up by anyone
[14:05:11] <crutchy> dunno. maybe, but lazarus is kinda d7 style anyway which is nice (though there are a few fancy things that i'd prolly disable)
[14:06:25] <bryan> recent gedit versions look like crap
[14:06:36] <bryan> those guys have destroyed GTK
[14:06:47] <chromas> Does gedit do completion? It's the only reason I use laz for command line Pascal stuff
[14:08:02] <chromas> gtk--
[14:08:02] <Bender> karma - gtk: -1
[14:13:33] <crutchy> nah i don't like completion, except for ctrl+shift+c in delphi (for method templates)
[14:13:35] <chromas> 👍++
[14:14:13] <crutchy> good for templating a whole class in one keystroke sequence :-)
[14:14:17] <chromas> I like the list that pops up with methods and stuff
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[14:15:11] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Bytram|away] by juggler
[14:15:16] <chromas> 💩++
[14:18:17] TheMightyBuzzard is now known as TheMightyBuzzard|Out
[14:23:43] <Bytram|away> TheMightyBuzzard|Out: Ooops, just missed ya!
[14:25:52] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
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[14:28:04] <crutchy> hi Bytram
[14:28:18] * crutchy is a bit slow tonight
[14:28:28] <crutchy> hi rand
[14:29:19] <crutchy> hi bryan sorry i missed you before
[14:30:12] <Bytram> crutchy: g'day mate!
[14:30:42] <rand> crutchy: morning!
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[14:34:53] <Bytram> !uid
[14:34:53] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 4486, owned by Freebirth Toad
[14:37:33] <crutchy> that's a weird name
[14:38:28] <Bytram> What would you prefer? "Test Tube Toad" =)
[14:38:58] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[14:39:47] * crutchy has no rocks to throw regarding username selection
[14:40:04] <crutchy> though at least mine is based on my surname :-)
[14:40:24] <crutchy> even though its weird
[14:40:40] <chromas> Mr Crutchinson
[14:41:27] * Bytram had wondered about that... postulated it may have been a reference to needing an assistive device while walking.
[14:44:03] <chromas> Makes me think of Wirt from Diablo
[14:45:29] <chromas> Secret cow level
[14:46:38] <Bytram> never played it. "Secret cow" level? Is that only inhabited by spherical cows?
[14:47:50] <Bytram> afk
[14:48:12] <NCommander> crutchy, pong
[14:48:13] <crutchy> is that where the "there is no cow level" cheat for starcraft comes from?
[14:48:34] <crutchy> NCommander: s/crutchy/chromas/
[14:48:34] <SedBot> <crutchy> <NCommander> chromas, pong
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[14:49:56] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Woods] by juggler
[14:50:04] <crutchy> g'day Woods
[14:50:12] <Woods> Hey
[14:50:13] <Woods> Hi
[14:50:29] <crutchy> what's new?
[14:51:16] <Woods> Nothing, I suppose
[14:51:21] <Woods> You?
[14:51:54] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Schizophrenia and Cannabis Use May Share Common Genes - http://sylnt.us - slow-calm-voices
[14:52:19] <crutchy> not much
[14:52:37] <crutchy> shitty weather here atm
[14:52:44] <Woods> Bender: s/Cannabis/Cannibals/
[14:52:45] <SedBot> <Woods> <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Schizophrenia and Cannibals Use May Share Common Genes - http://sylnt.us - slow-calm-voices
[14:53:12] <Woods> Hah! I had poor weather yesterday, but today it is all warm and fantastic.
[14:54:06] <crutchy> i suppose i can't really complain... i spend most of the day cooped up in an office cubicle anyway
[14:54:44] <crutchy> i get exercise by walking to the printer or getting a coffee occasionally :-P
[14:56:10] <Woods> I know that feel, I have a small "Office" with a window, which is nice, but it is on the opposite end of the building from the main group of users. So any time there is an issue, I have to walk across the building to get to it, not that that is bad though.
[14:56:15] <crutchy> SedBot: s/Schizophrenia/Pants/
[14:56:16] <SedBot> <crutchy> <SedBot> <Woods> <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Pants and Cannibals Use May Share Common Genes - http://sylnt.us - slow-calm-voices
[14:57:12] <Azrael> when the corner of my eye catches an edited headline and I don't immediately relaise it is from sedbot I panic thinking I missed a typo in a headline :)
[14:57:20] <Woods> lol
[14:57:34] <Azrael> not the Pants one, but the one above :D
[14:57:38] <crutchy> fortunately i'm not in a job that requires looking after users. i get the odd phone call or email from a client and occasionally have to drive out to a site
[14:57:41] <crutchy> lol
[14:57:42] <Woods> I initially thought it said cannibals, lol
[14:58:02] <Woods> Crutchy: At least you get out of the building, that must be nice.
[14:58:16] <Woods> Sedbot: s/Genes/Jeans/
[14:58:16] <SedBot> <Woods> <Sedbot> <crutchy> <SedBot> <Woods> <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Pants and Cannibals Use May Share Common Jeans - http://sylnt.us - slow-calm-voices
[14:58:20] <Woods> Nailed it.
[14:58:25] <crutchy> SedBot: s/ibals/abis/
[14:58:25] <SedBot> <crutchy> <SedBot> <Woods> <Sedbot> <crutchy> <SedBot> <Woods> <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Pants and Cannabis Use May Share Common Jeans - http://sylnt.us - slow-calm-voices
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[14:59:05] <crutchy> aww why did i do that one
[14:59:12] <crutchy> that was the same as the original :-/
[14:59:27] * crutchy neglected to read the original :-P
[14:59:45] <Azrael> SedBot: s/[a-zA-z:/ -]//g
[14:59:58] <Azrael> oh thanks a lot :(
[15:00:15] <crutchy> i suck at regex
[15:00:23] <Woods> Geeze Crutchy, this is why we do not have nice things.
[15:01:03] -!- TK [TK!~9ff52002@159.245.ju.y] has joined #Soylent
[15:01:11] <crutchy> i don't rtfa or rtfs... now i don't even rtfcm
[15:01:47] * crutchy closes his eyes
[15:02:12] <crutchy> eyes are overrated
[15:03:18] <Woods> Me neither Crutchy, me neither.
[15:14:43] <mrcoolbp> coffee++
[15:14:43] <Bender> karma - coffee: 294
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[15:35:55] <Bytram> !define rein
[15:36:08] <Bytram> ~define reign
[15:39:41] <chromas> Nay
[15:41:03] blackmoore|afk is now known as Blackmoore
[15:41:52] <Bytram> Neigh is nigh, nay?
[15:42:56] <Blackmoore> coffee++
[15:42:56] <Bender> karma - coffee: 295
[15:43:15] <chromas> Hoarse coarse horse course
[15:44:52] <Bytram> Hoarse horse course: coarse.
[15:48:47] <mattie_p> coffee++
[15:48:47] <Bender> karma - coffee: 296
[15:48:48] <mattie_p> of course
[15:48:53] <mattie_p> morning folks
[15:49:19] <mattie_p> hey crutchy, sorry I missed you yesterday, had to run
[15:49:32] <mattie_p> packing and loading my stuff is a bitch
[15:49:54] <Bytram> mattie_p: Good to "see" ya!
[15:50:11] <Blackmoore> mornin
[15:50:27] <Bytram> Yuppers on packing and moving... haven't had to do that in a while and the piles around my place are proof of that. :/
[15:50:48] <mattie_p> just torch it all, that's how I feel right now
[15:51:14] <Bytram> have a "GROJ Sale" ... Get Rid Of Junk.
[15:52:38] <mattie_p> yeah, we had one of those a month ago
[15:53:31] <Bytram> mattie_p++ Good! It ain't easy, but more than just the labor involved are all the memories that get kicked up, too
[15:53:31] <Bender> karma - mattie_p: 17
[15:54:14] <mattie_p> strange, my wife and I were reminiscing about some of our HS memories last night, had nothing to do with packing tho
[15:55:36] <Bytram> maybe not directly, but there's something for me about thinking back to a time a long while ago that dredges up other memories around that time frame, or at least from well before the current one!
[15:56:08] <mattie_p> that might be the case
[15:57:27] <Bytram> whatever the cause, I've found that I get more, ummm, "emotional" when such things happen. Brings me back in more ways than just the intellectual recollection, if you know what I mean?
[15:58:09] <Bytram> it's a clue to me to be a little more gentle on myself, take occasional breaks, and remember that THAT was THEN; THIS is NOW.
[15:58:22] <mattie_p> well, our entire family is on edge right now, so I think I know what you mean
[15:59:14] <Bytram> Maybe take a half-hour/hour break and just go get some ice cream or somethin. Total change of pace and make a happy memory that you can stake to the hear-and-now and look back on in the future.
[15:59:27] <Bytram> s/hear/here/
[15:59:28] <SedBot> <Bytram> Maybe take a half-hour/hour break and just go get some ice cream or somethin. Total change of pace and make a happy memory that you can stake to the here-and-now and look back on in the future.
[15:59:46] <mattie_p> we usually go to the pool in the afternoon, that seems to be a good break for us and the kids
[16:00:18] <Bytram> that's excellent!
[16:00:46] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Google/Nest Announces New "Smart Home" API - http://sylnt.us - Toaster-running-NetBSD
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[16:01:51] <Bytram> I was thinking of something a little more, ummmm, unusual. Something that will "make a mark" in everyone's memory. "Okay everyone. Stop what you're doing and everyone get in the car." then just drive over to an ice cream shop and tell bad jokes and gillge and laugh and forget all about moving for a bit. Something along THOSE lines.
[16:02:10] <Bytram> s/gillge/giggle/\
[16:02:14] <Bytram> s/gillge/giggle/
[16:02:14] <SedBot> <Bytram> s/giggle/giggle/\
[16:02:25] <Bytram> ugh!
[16:03:10] <mattie_p> I like gillge better, not sure what that is but we'll invent something
[16:03:18] <Bytram> LOL!!!!
[16:03:34] <Bytram> I think there's an Island named that.
[16:03:42] <Bytram> "Gillge's Island"
[16:04:51] <mattie_p> anyway, we sent the kids to bed last night at their "school night" time, not summer bedtime, because everyone was tired. we went to bed 15 minutes after that
[16:05:27] <Bytram> GOOD!!! Sleep is an amazing thing.
[16:05:43] <mattie_p> yes, I feel mostly recharged after a solid 8 hours
[16:06:37] <Bytram> I slept okay last night, but could certainly use some more.
[16:09:00] <Bytram> afk; back in a few
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[16:14:13] <TK> Wow, I guess everybody's moving this month
[16:14:56] <mattie_p> its summer, kids are out of school, its a great time to move
[16:15:06] <TK> So it's not just my selection bias
[16:15:31] <Bytram> less disuption to the school year is better for everyone.
[16:15:35] <mechanicjay> indeed
[16:15:36] <mattie_p> well, summertime is when most families move, I think. my realtor told me that
[16:15:56] <mattie_p> that could be true just for the market where I own my house, but I suspect it is true elsewhere as well
[16:15:59] <TK> It's also easier to drive a Uhaul when there isn't snow on the ground
[16:16:01] <mechanicjay> I'm working on a relocation strategy myself.
[16:16:08] <TK> Which was my plan
[16:18:51] <Bytram> ouch! http://go.theregister.com
[16:19:57] TheMightyBuzzard|Out is now known as TheMightyBuzzard
[16:20:36] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: G'day!
[16:20:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> heya heya
[16:21:38] <TK> buenos dias
[16:21:41] <Bytram> how was your weekend?
[16:21:42] <Blackmoore> mornin TheMightyBuzzard
[16:22:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> weekend was good. fishing saturday, lazy couch piloting sunday
[16:23:07] <TK> Bytram: It looks like there actually was an infected file being served, heavy handed tactics aside
[16:23:13] <Bytram> sounds wonderful! good for you!
[16:23:24] <Bytram> TK: thanks for that!
[16:23:48] <Bytram> I was actually expecting "monopoly" to pipe up with the headline to the article -- seems to not be working atm
[16:24:46] <TK> I wonder what their ISP's normal response is to these situations.
[16:25:30] <TK> Maybe a very polite phone call could fix this. Or maybe I'm being overly optimistic.
[16:29:53] <Bytram> idk, good question!
[16:30:00] <Bytram> btw, take a look at this one: http://catless.ncl.ac.uk
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[16:33:14] Bytram is now known as Bytram|afk
[16:40:41] <TK> Is this the latest line of BB phones?
[16:43:16] <Bytram|afk> idk
[16:53:12] <NCommander> Hi world
[16:53:16] * NCommander feels bleh
[16:54:37] <Blackmoore> hi NCommander !
[16:54:48] * NCommander is looking like he's going to Alaska for awhile
[16:55:04] <Blackmoore> ?!?!
[16:55:25] <Blackmoore> finding a place in NH was that distressing?
[16:57:29] <NCommander> Blackmoore, no, with us not incorporating in NH in the short term, I'm not tied down to living there
[16:58:57] <n1> work in alaska, NCommander?
[17:00:14] <NCommander> n1, no, taking my job w/ me
[17:00:40] * Bytram|afk has noticed that NCommander has very large pockets. =)
[17:00:47] <Bytram|afk> NCommander: hiya!
[17:01:03] <n1> sorry, just curious, alaska seems an unusual place to choose to go
[17:01:31] <n1> only ever seems to be because thats where work/money is, or existing family ties based on work/money decades prior
[17:01:45] <NCommander> Bytram|afk, not really.
[17:02:04] <Blackmoore> there are times when I feel like moving up there just to get away. (i'd never survive of course)
[17:02:09] <Bytram|afk> jk! sorry to hear you're feeling bleh.
[17:02:12] Bytram|afk is now known as Bytram
[17:02:58] <n1> Blackmoore, i think you can survive wherever - difficult to though, when you know there's better lifestyles out there
[17:03:05] <NCommander> I've spent a couple of summers up there before
[17:03:14] <NCommander> But thinking about moving there full time, or at least until 2015
[17:03:26] <n1> bit of an escape?
[17:04:47] <NCommander> n1, well, I've considered moving up there full time multiple times before
[17:05:12] <NCommander> But w/ us not incorporating in NH, and no strong desire to live there
[17:05:20] <NCommander> I rather go someplace I love
[17:05:45] <n1> i totally get that, i'm curious what the draw is, especially as you've been all over
[17:05:56] <n1> it's a perspective on alaska entirely new to me
[17:08:43] <NCommander> Its somewhat hard to explain
[17:08:48] <NCommander> Life there is different than the lower 48
[17:11:27] <n1> i wish you all the best with it, i know the feeling. enjoy having the freedom to make such drastic changes
[17:11:33] <SirFinkus> Out For Delivery :D
[17:11:37] <SirFinkus> one of the best things in the world
[17:11:39] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Researchers Find and Decode the Spy Tools Governments Use to Hijack Phones: - http://sylnt.us - look-who's-listening
[17:12:07] <NCommander> n1, indeed
[17:12:10] <n1> crawling up the walls in London right here, but until my economic situation improves.. blah the cycle continues
[17:12:15] <NCommander> I'm mulling what city right now
[17:12:21] <NCommander> Fairbank, or Anchorage
[17:12:33] <NCommander> Or perhaps somewhere else, but I prefer to be connected to the interstate system
[17:12:51] <SirFinkus> my sister in law lives in Anchorage
[17:12:59] <SirFinkus> err, stepsister
[17:13:03] <SirFinkus> whatever
[17:15:42] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[17:15:48] <NCommander> I'll probably head there first
[17:15:58] * NCommander hasn't been in a great place mentally in RL for awhile
[17:16:12] <SirFinkus> welcome to the club lol
[17:16:23] <SirFinkus> I wish I could go somewhere else, but alas, no money
[17:16:42] <SirFinkus> feel like I need to pull the "eject" lever sometimes
[17:20:52] * Bytram needs to be getting about getting ready for the day job... have fun folks!
[17:20:58] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
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[17:47:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> man, they went to a lot of trouble to escape unicode characters in RSS when you're specifically not supposed to escape them.
[17:54:33] * NCommander shoves the queue around
[17:54:46] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I love fixing UTF_8 is mostly deleting code
[17:55:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, it's awesome and i get to use the word fuck in comments
[18:00:15] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Supreme Court Kills Aereo - http://sylnt.us - why-we-can't-have-nice-things
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[18:07:14] <Konomi> the only place left to try inovation is going to be on the moon at this rate
[18:08:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> bitch of it all is the cpan module XML::RSS encodes by default, so i have to tell it not to, and then they went and called encode on every individual field too.
[18:09:26] <NCommander> Konomi, I recommend you read the brief. The logic behind it is kinda special
[18:09:40] <Konomi> how many thousands of pages is it >.<
[18:10:06] <Konomi> https://soylentnews.org
[18:10:17] <Konomi> already trying to wade through this which is more of a concern to me atm
[18:13:21] <NCommander> Konomi, its 35
[18:13:37] <NCommander> On large font
[18:16:03] <Konomi> I might look at it later legalise has never interested me
[18:39:11] <NCommander> I hate having days where I wish I could just crawl back into bed
[18:44:02] <Konomi> that's like every day for me ;p
[18:50:27] <paulej72> NCommander: Kavik
[18:50:35] <NCommander> paulej72, ?
[18:50:57] <paulej72> where to live in Alaska. They have internet
[18:51:33] <paulej72> http://www.kavikrivercamp.com
[18:51:59] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Maybe a College Education is Worth it After All - http://sylnt.us - one-last-book-before-I-go
[18:51:59] <paulej72> 69.4N x 146.54W
[18:55:38] <paulej72> TheMightyBuzzard: the RSS 1.0 version that slash uses is XML based and thus needs all html to be encoded as not to break the XML file format. I think the RSS 2.0 is not XML based and does not need any encodign
[18:56:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, easy way to find out
[18:57:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> quicker to change to rss 2.0 than it is to deploy the change.
[18:58:28] <NCommander> paulej72, yeash, I know where that is, its not far from the Dalton Highway
[18:59:09] <NCommander> paulej72, I actually think I saw this women on Flying Wild Alaska
[19:00:27] <paulej72> She is on Wild Alaska or one of the other shows The one on NatGeo. I was supprised that sat internet worked that far north, and looking it up. it just barly does.
[19:00:53] <NCommander> paulej72, eh, in Prudhoe, I had 5/1 connectivity
[19:00:56] <NCommander> and two second latency :-)
[19:01:23] <paulej72> just fine for WOW :)
[19:01:50] <NCommander> I never could get into WOW
[19:01:57] <NCommander> Now if they had made a world of starcraft ....
[19:02:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, html has to be encoded but unicode doesn't. xml defaults to the UTF-8 charset even.
[19:02:54] <paulej72> TheMightyBuzzard: as they were not expecting unicode they probably did a sloppy encode.
[19:03:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, very much so. it's all a big mess that i'll sort out tomorrow now that i have a good idea where it's going wrong.
[19:06:21] <paulej72> TheMightyBuzzard: I was woing a bit on Firday to trace down where the PullParser calls were coming from in slash. I found that there were TokeParser calls which use the PullParser. There only seem to be a few calls so it may make sense to do a utf-8 decode before sending the data to TokeParser instead of trying to fix PullParser
[19:07:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, likely does. i went for the quick and hacky fix "just for now".
[19:07:20] <paulej72> I was super-busy the rest of the weekend and I did not have time to do more with this. I may be able to look at it this evening
[19:09:09] <paulej72> If a $filename is passed to the constructor the file will be opened in raw mode and the parsing result will only be valid if its content is Latin-1 or pure ASCII.
[19:09:10] <paulej72> If parsing from an UTF-8 encoded string buffer decode it first:
[19:09:25] <paulej72> http://search.cpan.org
[19:11:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> makes sense. let me roll back all the dicking around i've done today and i'll see about putting a fix in
[19:19:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm....
[19:22:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, think i'll just decode it for now. may introduce bugs down the line but not until we start having unicode in our urls.
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[19:30:22] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Possibly Coldest White Dwarf Star Detected - http://sylnt.us - no-kind-of-atmosphere
[19:32:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> it mildly annoys me that people still don't make their modules unicode friendly.
[19:42:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, that's fixed. can go back to stock PullParser.pm
[19:42:28] * TheMightyBuzzard gets the push out to his branch
[19:44:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, fixed and changes pushed to unicode-work branch of my repo.
[19:53:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, also, http://ashbentiel.no-ip.biz:1337 is where i'm at now with the rss. links and rdf:resource ampersands being encoded is primarily what's bugging me but they're the same on live, so i may not screw with it anymore.
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[20:35:25] * TheMightyBuzzard yawns
[20:36:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> Guess tomorrow I'll start in on what happens when you set utf8 to 0. Set to 1 seems to be working as far as I can tell.
[20:41:16] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Microsoft Announces Android Phone - http://sylnt.us - bandwagon-jumping
[21:31:52] <Landon> whew, anyone else watching SGDQ?
[21:32:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> never heard of it
[21:42:01] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Google Expanding into Domain Registration - http://sylnt.us - Borg-is-growing
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[22:03:57] <Landon> http://gamesdonequick.com
[22:04:52] monopoly is now known as brokenopoly
[22:50:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Effect of Anti-Depressant Use after FDA Warnings and Media Coverage - http://sylnt.us - unintended-consquences
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