#Soylent | Logs for 2014-06-24
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[00:02:00] <crutchy> coffee++
[00:02:00] <Bender> karma - coffee: 285
[00:02:56] <crutchy> Bender: s/$15 M in Prizes/Pants/
[00:03:15] <crutchy> SedBot
[00:03:15] * SedBot is a 53-line awk script, https://github.com
[00:04:17] <crutchy> s/o/u/
[00:04:17] <SedBot> <crutchy> SedBut
[00:05:02] <chromas> crutchy: s/.*/chocolatehotdog++/
[00:05:02] <SedBot> <chromas> <crutchy> chocolatehotdog++
[00:08:29] <crutchy> hi chromas :-)
[00:08:57] <chromas> ~rainbow hi crutchy!
[00:08:58] <exec> 00,04h00,07i00,08 00,09c00,12r00,02u00,06t00,04c00,07h00,08y00,09!
[00:09:19] -!- boioioing has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[00:11:45] <crutchy> better go brush daughties hair for skool
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[00:29:02] <crutchy> time for work. cyas
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[00:45:10] <arti> https://en.wikipedia.org(microprocessor)
[00:45:10] <monopoly> 14└ 9IBM z196 (microprocessor) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[00:45:24] <arti> pretty cool, look at that cache
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[01:21:50] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Silicon Valley Giants Just Handed Out $15 M in Prizes to Mathematicians - http://sylnt.us - I-bet-they-had-no-problems-counting-that || Confirmed: Yes, it is the Higgs - http://sylnt.us - the-force-is-strong-with-this-one
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[01:32:01] <Blackmoore> cubicles--
[01:32:01] <Bender> karma - cubicles: -3
[01:36:26] <Blackmoore> somebody send me a chair with a back massage. Please..
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[01:47:00] <SpallsHurgenson> is it just me, or does the sun seem BRIGHTER this summer than usual?
[01:47:22] * SpallsHurgenson checks the neutrino count... is a nova impending?
[01:49:34] <Blackmoore> it has been pretty damn hot, and the solstace was enough to fry me saturday.
[01:51:14] <Blackmoore> I'm going to wish I was working at a waterpark this summer
[01:51:38] <Blackmoore> but no, I'll be at Sterling..
[02:04:32] <Blackmoore> g'night all
[02:04:42] Blackmoore is now known as blackmoore|afk
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[02:39:28] <SpallsHurgenson> I feel phlegmish
[02:40:49] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Time Travel Simulated with Light - http://sylnt.us - not-sure-if-wave-or-particle
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[04:00:49] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - German Publishers Want an 11 Percent Cut of Online News Providers - http://sylnt.us - germany-antics
[04:12:29] <SpallsHurgenson> Erste der Googlenews, dann die Welt!
[04:26:51] <SpallsHurgenson> how did people used to live with only one monitor?
[04:32:58] <chromas> In caves
[04:33:45] <chromas> If you call that living
[04:33:56] <SpallsHurgenson> I don't
[04:34:04] * SpallsHurgenson starts slapping extra monitors on everything
[04:37:12] <SpallsHurgenson> microwaves, toilets, cars, fans, dogs, cheeseburgers... everything!
[04:37:23] <chromas> Even the monitors
[04:37:32] <SpallsHurgenson> whoa... you just blew my mind!
[04:41:36] <chromas> Is its monitor okay?
[04:43:24] <SpallsHurgenson> it's gone black, like there's nothing there!
[04:45:36] <chromas> Sounds like you're hacking on slash again
[04:46:34] <SpallsHurgenson> from what I understand and hear about slashcode, the problem is not a DEFICIT of code
[04:47:08] <chromas> But what happens to your mids when you try to understand the code?
[04:47:14] <chromas> s/ds/nd/
[04:47:15] <SedBot> <chromas> But what happens to your mind when you try to understand the code?
[04:49:06] <SpallsHurgenson> Do not try and understand slashcode. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no code. Then you'll see, that it is not the code that is understandable, it is only yourself.
[04:49:33] <SpallsHurgenson> (wow, that was even more nonsensical than the original)
[04:50:13] <chromas> It just means I need to, uh...examine my...self..some more
[04:50:32] <chromas> You know, for better understanding
[04:50:53] <SpallsHurgenson> should I be averting my eyes?
[04:51:14] <chromas> You could give me a hand
[04:51:20] <SpallsHurgenson> oh god no!
[05:00:02] <SpallsHurgenson> there is pie in the other room. It is the last piece of pie. I should not eat pie. Others may want the pie. Do I take the pie?
[05:00:41] <swiss> no
[05:00:49] <swiss> you give me the pie, cause i'm starving, but lazy
[05:01:15] <SpallsHurgenson> but I like pie!
[05:11:12] <swiss> so do i
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[05:21:11] <chromas> Each of you shall receive...death. I will eat the pie
[05:21:26] <swiss> :(
[05:22:02] <chromas> Nah, you can have it; I've got biscotti
[05:22:20] <swiss> :(
[05:22:22] <swiss> i want that too
[05:22:54] <chromas> To the kitchen, my good sir!
[05:24:01] <swiss> too much work
[05:24:18] <chromas> That is lazy
[05:24:19] <chromas> :D
[05:24:35] <swiss> yep!
[05:24:48] <chromas> It helps if you have a stand mixer
[05:25:13] <chromas> then it's onyl about two minutes worth of effort
[05:27:45] <swiss> oh man
[05:27:53] <swiss> i forgot i had girlfriend cookies in my room
[05:28:59] <chromas> chocolate-dipped macaroons?
[05:30:51] <SpallsHurgenson> as the channel's resident perv, I am interested in hearing more about your girlfriend's "cookies"
[05:31:15] <chromas> maybe he meant cookies acting as a girlfriend; ie doughnuts
[05:33:01] <swiss> chromas: http://i.imgur.com
[05:33:58] <chromas> Gnome?
[05:34:26] <swiss> yeah
[05:34:29] <swiss> <3 gnome3
[05:34:35] <chromas> oh yeah, and cookies
[05:34:35] <chromas> :D
[05:34:48] <chromas> show us what's in those drawer
[05:34:49] <chromas> s
[05:35:02] <swiss> clothes?
[05:35:29] <swiss> it's what's on top of the dresser that's interesting
[05:45:35] <chromas> ooh, a rack of servers, no doubt
[05:56:58] <swiss> chromas: semi nsfw http://i.imgur.com
[05:58:58] <chromas> That penguin knows what time it is
[05:59:52] <SpallsHurgenson> I wanna know what is in the box on the left
[06:00:06] <swiss> Break the Safe?
[06:00:34] <SpallsHurgenson> why are you asking me? :)
[06:00:44] <swiss> is that the box you mean
[06:00:49] <SpallsHurgenson> anyway, sleepy time
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[06:02:28] <chromas> He's off to dream about cookies and board games
[06:04:25] <swiss> i believe it
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[07:11:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - China Leads in Graphene Patent Applications - http://sylnt.us - two-dimensional-diamond
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[08:50:25] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Would You Spend $10,000 for a Driverless Car in 2015? - http://sylnt.us - rs6-avant-or-gtfo
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[08:52:39] <crutchy> coffee++
[08:52:39] <Bender> karma - coffee: 286
[09:12:26] <crutchy> ~time dc
[09:12:31] <exec> [Google] 3:12am Tuesday (EDT) - Time in Washington, DC, USA
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[09:35:27] <crutchy> ~q
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[10:21:34] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Vacuum Transistor: A Device Made of Almost Nothing - http://sylnt.us - everything-is-something
[10:43:55] <crutchy> coffee++
[10:43:55] <Bender> karma - coffee: 287
[11:28:01] <crutchy> coffee++
[11:28:01] <Bender> karma - coffee: 288
[11:28:06] <arti> coffee++
[11:28:06] <Bender> karma - coffee: 289
[11:28:16] <crutchy> arti++
[11:28:16] <Bender> karma - arti: 52
[11:28:53] <crutchy> u up early
[11:29:10] <arti> late
[11:29:23] <arti> guess its all relative
[11:30:32] <crutchy> its 7.30pm here
[11:31:00] <arti> events occur in real time
[11:43:54] -!- JamesNZ [JamesNZ!~james@43-567-441-22.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #Soylent
[11:48:22] <crutchy> g'day JamesNZ
[11:49:30] <JamesNZ> Greetings crutchy \o How's it going?
[11:49:51] <crutchy> can't complain. you?
[11:50:33] <JamesNZ> Listening to Mozart while coding, so, pretty good :)
[11:50:41] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - US Offering Cash For Pro-TAFTA/TTIP Propaganda - http://sylnt.us - start-your-career-in-politics-today
[11:50:58] <crutchy> ooh
[11:51:29] <crutchy> atm i'm just coding but music is a good idea
[11:51:44] <JamesNZ> Whatcha working on?
[11:51:45] <crutchy> whatcha workin on?
[11:51:48] <crutchy> lmao
[11:51:55] <crutchy> weird
[11:52:02] <JamesNZ> :P
[11:52:16] <crutchy> my stoopid bot
[11:52:44] <crutchy> u?
[11:52:45] <JamesNZ> Cool, what language is it in?
[11:52:53] <JamesNZ> I'm putting the finishing touches on a mod loader for Warzone.
[11:52:55] <crutchy> php
[11:53:01] <JamesNZ> Ah.
[11:53:13] * crutchy googles warzone
[11:53:28] <JamesNZ> Warzone 2100, a game I play :)
[11:53:59] <JamesNZ> It's in Python + PyQt.
[11:54:59] <crutchy> cool
[11:55:17] <crutchy> looks like an rts
[11:55:32] <JamesNZ> Yeah, it is.
[12:17:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[12:17:45] <Bender> karma - coffee: 290
[12:18:17] <crutchy> coffee++
[12:18:17] <Bender> karma - coffee: 291
[12:38:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> guess it's back to hacking away at slash today
[12:42:44] * crutchy offers TheMightyBuzzard a sharpening stone for his hacking blade
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[13:21:49] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - City Cracks Down On 9-Year-Old For Opening Free Library In His Front Yard - http://sylnt.us - tax-and-zoning-regulations-for-altruism
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[14:09:22] <crutchy> wb konomi
[14:09:30] <Konomi> ;p
[14:09:54] * crutchy was only half hour late
[14:23:35] <stdhell> Sometimes it would be nice, if there was an HTML tag that meant the opposite of <noscript>...
[14:26:09] <crutchy> i put script-only stuff in a div with an id and style="display: none;" and set display to block using js
[14:26:26] <crutchy> bit hacky but works
[14:27:01] <crutchy> i guess not as easy as what you're after though
[14:27:17] <stdhell> Exactly. It's a bit hacky...
[14:29:09] <stdhell> It's also a bit messy, if you got more than one block that needs to be hidden/shown.
[14:29:14] <crutchy> one advantage of the hacky method is that it *requires* js to work and doesn't depend on browser implementation of a tag
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[14:29:39] <crutchy> use a 'script-only' id class
[14:29:39] <stdhell> True.
[14:32:20] * TheMightyBuzzard scratches his head
[14:32:32] <crutchy> function showClass(objClass) {
[14:32:32] <crutchy> var elements = (ie) ? document.all : document.getElementsByTagName('*');
[14:32:32] <crutchy> for (var i=0; i<elements.length; i++) {
[14:32:32] <crutchy> if (elements[i].className==objClass) {
[14:32:32] <crutchy> elements[i].style.display='block';
[14:32:33] <crutchy> }
[14:32:35] <crutchy> }
[14:32:37] <crutchy> }
[14:32:47] <crutchy> ^what i use
[14:33:58] <stdhell> It would probably be better to remove the "display" property instead in case you got some inline stuff too.
[14:34:24] <crutchy> i make a 'script_only' class in my css file
[14:34:31] <stdhell> I.e. let it switch back to the default "display" property for that element.
[14:34:44] <crutchy> ah
[14:35:51] <crutchy> true. never had to worry about that much in my stuff but for general thing sure
[14:36:04] <stdhell> ... or I could simply have some buttons on my page that does nothing if javascript is disabled.
[14:37:02] <stdhell> (Cue my boss: "Oh, I know! Let it pop up a message saying 'You need to enable Javascript!'")
[14:37:10] <crutchy> just looking at my script, i also have a hideClassInline function
[14:37:43] <crutchy> s/hide/show/
[14:37:43] <SedBot> <crutchy> just looking at my script, i also have a showClassInline function
[14:37:53] <crutchy> (i have hide versions of both too)
[14:38:39] <crutchy> lol looks like the hide functions are both the same anyway
[14:38:42] <crutchy> ah well
[14:38:45] <stdhell> Another problem: What if Javascript is enabled, but the user then disables it?
[14:39:45] <crutchy> if he disables javascript after a page load and then doesn't refresh it, when he asks tech support they will suitably roll their eyes
[14:40:22] <stdhell> Quick poll: How many disables "first-party" javascript?
[14:40:42] <crutchy> ooh 'paranoid-mode'
[14:40:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> depends on the site
[14:41:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> default to disabling it but if a site needs it, i whitelist them.
[14:41:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> assuming they're not being jackasses with it.
[14:41:23] <crutchy> i generally design for my stuff to work without js, but adds some convenience features if enabled
[14:41:38] <stdhell> Would you enable or disable it for something like SoylentNews?
[14:42:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, it's enabled for SN. i'd disable it if it got used to serve up annoying ads though.
[14:42:36] <crutchy> sometimes i browse in incognito mode (or whatever its called) but not often
[14:42:52] <crutchy> adblock edge is awesome TheMightyBuzzard
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[14:46:07] <crutchy> gday Woods
[14:46:26] <Woods> Yo
[14:49:41] <ar> https://www.youtube.com - whaaaa (a video promoting not tolerating unsafe buses carrying kids, for example to school…)
[14:49:42] <monopoly> 14└ 9Smutny Autobus - YouTube
[14:50:56] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Court: NYC Can Ban Unvaccinated students - http://sylnt.us - Science-1-Loons-0
[14:53:17] <ar> http://pattle.github.io
[14:53:17] <monopoly> 14└ 9The Simpsons in CSS
[14:54:40] <crutchy> ar, that is fucking disturbing :-P
[14:54:50] <crutchy> who does that?
[14:55:10] <ar> crutchy: the company i used to work for did it for some government agency
[14:55:34] <crutchy> lol sounds like something only a government agency would pay for :-)
[14:56:01] <crutchy> very clever though
[14:56:23] <crutchy> one of those "someone has too much time on their hands" projects
[14:57:34] <crutchy> assuming its css3?
[14:57:43] <SirFinkus> some of them are a little fucked up
[14:57:50] * crutchy has never seen that radiusy stuff in css2.1
[14:58:01] <stdhell> I wouldn't call it "pure CSS". There's a lot of <div>'s for each character.
[14:58:31] <crutchy> i 'drew' a flowchart with rotated divs once
[14:58:58] <Woods> OH GOD THEY BLINKED AT ME
[14:59:08] <crutchy> yeah that's some creepy shit eh
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[14:59:29] <Azrael> that simpsons css is beautiful!!
[14:59:53] <Woods> I must find an old priest and a young priest to exorcise my computer.
[15:00:20] <Woods> Firefox is now crab-walking down the stairs backwards, while vomiting pea soup.
[15:00:32] <crutchy> i wouldn't leave them alone together... they might 'exorcise' each other
[15:00:57] <stdhell> Woods: Nothing unusual about that...
[15:01:15] <Woods> Stdhell: I know right? That new version sure has some wacky features.
[15:01:44] <stdhell> ./configure --disable-crab-walk --disable-vomit
[15:02:15] <Woods> I actually just picked up an addon to disable those for me.
[15:03:06] <crutchy> http://www.youtube.com
[15:03:07] <monopoly> 14└ 9Madagascar 3 Mort throws up cake (HD) - YouTube
[15:04:58] <Konomi> nasty
[15:05:51] <crutchy> damn end of month internet shaping
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[15:06:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> growl snarl spit.
[15:06:18] <Konomi> better set up some open wifi crutchy and share it with others
[15:06:28] <crutchy> lol
[15:06:41] <crutchy> its slow enough already without freeloaders
[15:06:46] <Konomi> I'd still like to know what they do to it to royally screw it
[15:06:59] <Konomi> cause when I had dial up at 5.6kb shit just took longer to load
[15:07:12] <Konomi> where as on capped 256kbps it just stops working for every little thing
[15:07:18] <Konomi> they're obviously fucking with it
[15:07:29] <Konomi> cause I know a lot of people who could get by on that
[15:07:30] <crutchy> my net still works but very slow loading that youtube
[15:07:53] <Konomi> I find my net just doesn't work at all
[15:08:00] <Konomi> if I tried that capped it'd stop loading in the first 10 seconds
[15:08:03] <crutchy> missus has been watching foxtel online
[15:08:06] <Konomi> same for web pages etc
[15:08:10] <Konomi> yeah
[15:08:15] <Konomi> peple keep saying netflix is coming to au
[15:08:28] <crutchy> do not tell my wife that
[15:08:30] <Konomi> I'm like please no one can watch tv with the caps almost every isp has
[15:08:32] <Konomi> what a koke
[15:08:34] <Konomi> joke*
[15:09:14] <Woods> Konomi: Caps as in overall bandwidth usage? Or speed?
[15:09:20] <Konomi> usage
[15:09:23] <Konomi> my speed is 100mbps
[15:09:33] <Konomi> I could drain my cap in about 5 hours of donwloading for an enire month
[15:09:38] <Konomi> if I maxed it
[15:09:41] <Woods> Wow, yeah that sucks.
[15:09:46] <crutchy> 100mbps!?
[15:09:47] <stdhell> Konomi: The caps are because internation stuff is expensive as hell, right? Maybe Netflix is planning on local servers?
[15:09:55] <Konomi> australia is just a joke for internet usage
[15:10:01] <crutchy> holy carp my interwebz is only 12mbps
[15:10:06] <Konomi> I mean america is having this debate over net neutrality
[15:10:10] <Konomi> we lost ours ages ago
[15:10:22] <Konomi> every isp I know has "uncapped" content
[15:10:35] <Konomi> basically you can dowload our shit without it counting to your quota stuff
[15:10:41] <Konomi> it's a huge pathetic joke here really
[15:10:56] <Woods> Hm. I wonder what kind of things are "free"
[15:11:06] <Konomi> well fortnatly the linux mirror I use is
[15:11:14] <Konomi> but ueah it's just one of the examples
[15:11:41] <crutchy> i feel free to drop my guts at convenient times
[15:11:51] <stdhell> Konomi: What about stuff from other .au ISPs?
[15:11:57] <Konomi> stdhell: nope
[15:12:05] <Konomi> that's metred
[15:12:15] <Konomi> I also have an on and off peak quota
[15:12:20] <Konomi> the off peak quota being 2am to 8am
[15:12:21] <crutchy> once i go over 50gb i'm shaped
[15:12:28] <Konomi> australia is just shit
[15:12:30] <crutchy> but i can keep downloading
[15:12:31] <Konomi> don't ever come here
[15:12:51] <stdhell> Konomi: Ok, I thought it was just international stuff that was counted. :-(
[15:12:55] <Woods> It sounds pretty horrible, from an internet standpoint.
[15:12:57] <Konomi> nope
[15:13:39] <crutchy> i'm pretty happy with my net, but maybe its just ignorant bliss
[15:14:00] <Konomi> I've had a few friends visit from the us too
[15:14:03] <crutchy> depends what you wanna do i guess
[15:14:11] <Konomi> it's funny cause they used up the caps of the people I was staying with at the time
[15:14:14] <Konomi> and they were like
[15:14:16] <Konomi> what are caps?
[15:14:20] <Woods> And now I feel bad because I am about to get Google Fiber. If I could share some internets with you guys, I would.
[15:15:15] <Woods> Konomi: What about phone data rates?
[15:15:21] <Konomi> HAHAH
[15:15:24] <Konomi> haha haha
[15:15:26] <crutchy> what do you do with google fiber?
[15:15:33] <Konomi> how does 19 dollars for 900mb sound to you?
[15:15:33] <crutchy> watch a crapload of pr0n?
[15:15:46] <Woods> Pretty friggin horrible
[15:15:54] <crutchy> konomi, who's that with?
[15:16:00] <Konomi> virgin prepaid
[15:16:08] <Woods> Crutchy: I will be hosting a Ventrilo server, and probably a Minecraft server, and all the multiplayer games my friends and I play.
[15:16:10] <Konomi> you can get beter deals but I've fond they're all a joke
[15:16:10] <crutchy> ah you talking mobile data
[15:16:22] <Konomi> every wireless provider running on 3g/4g I have tried is congested and slow as fuck
[15:16:41] <Konomi> it's like using sorta 500kbps/1mbps sometimes where it works when it doesn't dorp out when your ping isn't 4 seconds
[15:16:42] <crutchy> i rarely use 3g/4g
[15:17:01] <Konomi> this is at 100% signal btw...
[15:17:05] <crutchy> i usually disablei it
[15:17:09] <Woods> Weird
[15:17:59] <crutchy> works pretty good out in the sticks
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[15:18:14] <crutchy> not awesome but doesn't drop out at least
[15:18:40] <crutchy> i'm with telstra though
[15:18:45] <crutchy> (just for mobile)
[15:19:15] <crutchy> couldn't pay me to go with telstra for home internet
[15:20:35] <crutchy> Woods: you hosting at home?
[15:20:56] <Woods> I will be when I switch, mid July.
[15:21:20] <Konomi> telstra are scrambling to use more spectrum they ended up just as congested as optus did
[15:21:24] <Konomi> we wonb't talk about vodaphone
[15:21:30] <Konomi> I'm just fgoing to pretend they don't exist
[15:21:45] <Konomi> pretty much like their coverage area in fact
[15:22:51] <Konomi> companies have just learned the internet is too much freedom so they're going for the kill as much as possible ;p
[15:23:55] <crutchy> the internet is legally compromising... as iiNet found out
[15:24:33] <crutchy> though the iiNet case was a win for the aussie legal system
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[15:27:17] <crutchy> optus has one advantage over telsta... they have their own satellites
[15:27:32] <crutchy> s/telsta/telstra/
[15:27:32] <SedBot> <crutchy> optus has one advantage over telstra... they have their own satellites
[15:35:35] <Konomi> satellites god
[15:35:51] <Konomi> I'd sooner recommend wireless with repeaters
[15:35:58] <Konomi> satellite is absolute shit
[15:37:47] <crutchy> good for international links though
[15:38:05] <crutchy> backbone stuff
[15:39:29] * crutchy has never used optus for anything, but saw their satellites mentioned at a space conference a few years back
[15:39:55] blackmoore|afk is now known as Blackmoore
[15:39:58] <Blackmoore> mornin
[15:40:04] <crutchy> hi Blackmoore
[15:43:05] <LaminatorX> Sat's can actually have hella bandwidth, but the latency is awful. They're move enourmous packets, but even at the speed of light it's a long turnaround.
[15:44:12] <Konomi> the latency makes them awful
[15:44:21] <Konomi> don't ever think about skyping or gaming ever again
[15:44:24] <crutchy> moving data from one side of the world to the other is gunna have some latency regardless of which way you go
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[15:44:46] <Konomi> everything is going to have "some" latency so that is a moot statement really
[15:44:51] <Konomi> it's how mcuh that matters
[15:44:59] <Konomi> and satellite is generally 800ms+
[15:45:02] <Konomi> so yeah
[15:45:14] <crutchy> i a single hop though
[15:45:24] <Konomi> once again moot
[15:45:27] <Konomi> you have to go through all hops.
[15:45:48] <crutchy> more hops going through fiber
[15:46:34] <crutchy> sat can just throw the data all the way across the pacific in a single hop
[15:47:10] <Konomi> ah what?
[15:47:16] <Konomi> it stil has to go through the rest of the internet.
[15:47:32] <crutchy> just talkin backbone stuff
[16:00:02] <stdhell> crutchy: s/hop/package/
[16:00:20] <stdhell> Or packet or datagram or whatever you want to call it.
[16:00:43] <crutchy> stdhell: http://en.wikipedia.org
[16:00:44] <monopoly> 14└ 9Hop (networking) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[16:01:21] <stdhell> crutchy: I know what a hop is. You meant all the data could be sent as one package.
[16:01:27] <crutchy> nope
[16:01:46] <crutchy> i meant it could go further in a single hop
[16:02:05] <crutchy> instead of going through a bunch of switches from one side of the earth to the other
[16:02:56] <stdhell> Ah... I thought you were talking about latency.
[16:03:20] <crutchy> its sort of related i think
[16:03:52] <crutchy> switches slow things down a bit
[16:04:18] <crutchy> its not fiber when its in the switch
[16:04:20] <stdhell> Throwing in an extra hop in the middle of a cross-atlantic cable doesn't change the latency much. The length of the cable is a bit more important.
[16:04:32] <Konomi> switches do slow things down but satellite has such a huge ping it would make no difference
[16:04:33] <crutchy> true
[16:04:44] <crutchy> i was more thinking in australia
[16:04:58] <Konomi> I dread to think how many segments you'd need to go through to even match satellites lag
[16:05:03] <crutchy> not sure what you mean by huge ping konomi
[16:05:11] <Konomi> I stated before
[16:05:16] <Konomi> satellite ping is 800ms plus
[16:05:21] <crutchy> for a satellite phone i guess
[16:05:30] <Konomi> no for internet as well
[16:05:36] <Konomi> I'm being generous on that value too
[16:05:44] <Konomi> Latency for satellite connections is very high due to the distance the satellites are from earth. One-way systems typically get pings in the 400-500ms range with 450ms about average and two-way systems in the 690-1150ms range, with 850ms about average. Feedback received on this FAQ entry:
[16:05:50] <crutchy> what's the latency for fiber across the same distance?
[16:06:06] <crutchy> (along the ground)
[16:06:13] <Konomi> well unless we run fiber into space we're not going to know
[16:07:19] <Konomi> the distances are just so far into space it doesn't matter
[16:07:48] <crutchy> true, but there's less switching infrastructure in the way too
[16:08:25] <Konomi> that's like running 10 miles in a strait line with nothing around you and someone doing 6 hurdles and telling them the hurdles matter
[16:08:29] <stdhell> crutchy: I can ping 8.8.8.8 in less than 70ms from Denmark.
[16:08:41] <Konomi> 8.8.8.8 is localised in every country
[16:08:47] <Konomi> do a traceroute
[16:09:06] <crutchy> not sure how to compare cos prolly can't tell what the medium is
[16:09:07] <stdhell> Ok, give me another IP then...
[16:09:17] <Konomi> crutchy: we'll it's easy I look at htat faq
[16:09:22] <Konomi> it says 850 average
[16:09:30] <Konomi> and I ping anywhere on the planet and the max I will get is 600
[16:09:36] <Konomi> so it's pretty obvious which is better
[16:09:45] <Konomi> reguardless of the stupid switches
[16:10:04] <crutchy> could be accessing cached data ffrom akamai
[16:10:08] <Konomi> and the satellite would still have to go through the same shit I do unless the base station is in another country
[16:10:18] <stdhell> Konomi: Yeah, those NSA switches are pretty fast...
[16:10:33] <Konomi> they can be as fast as they want picking up my ssl data
[16:10:57] <crutchy> a lot of data is cached country to country
[16:10:58] <stdhell> crutchy: I seriously double akamai is caching ping data too...
[16:11:15] <stdhell> s/double/doubt/
[16:11:15] <SedBot> <stdhell> crutchy: I seriously doubt akamai is caching ping data too...
[16:11:20] <stdhell> Stupid fingers...
[16:11:42] <crutchy> are you pinging an address or a domain?
[16:12:37] <Konomi> point is satellite sucks
[16:12:53] <crutchy> prolly, but they do have their uses
[16:12:54] <stdhell> crutchy: Well... I talked about 8.8.8.8 and asked for another IP-address... What do you think?
[16:13:10] <Konomi> the only use for satellite internet should be the north or south pole
[16:13:16] <Konomi> anywhere else should use wrieless repeaters
[16:13:42] <Konomi> makes me sick to my stomach when I hear the idea of satellite internet being part of the NBN
[16:13:48] <stdhell> Konomi: Or cables.
[16:14:12] <Konomi> stdhell: well they're going for the cheap factor so I was trying to compromise ;p
[16:14:39] <crutchy> i'm not sure satellites are as bad as you paint them to be but anyways
[16:14:56] <stdhell> Konomi: RFC 1149 could be cheaper... :-)
[16:15:11] <crutchy> for backbone data transmission i thought they were fairly critical
[16:15:28] <crutchy> maybe its cos submarine cables are prone to breakage and stuf
[16:16:41] <stdhell> An anchor might break one of those cables, but other than that I think they're pretty solid.
[16:17:04] <Konomi> https://en.wikipedia.org
[16:17:05] <monopoly> 14└ 9Satellite Internet access - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[16:17:11] <Konomi> probably a good summary of the numerous problems with it
[16:17:42] <LaminatorX> Sats are great when raw throughput is what matters. When your use case demands low latency, they're not ideal.
[16:17:45] <Konomi> I love the problems due to rain section
[16:18:39] <crutchy> i dunno whether satellite would be good for consumer access cos of bandwidth limitations
[16:18:57] <crutchy> big dish international links was more what i was thinking
[16:19:53] <LaminatorX> Consumer sat access makes sense in remote areas where no one is going to run cables.
[16:19:54] <stdhell> crutchy: Bandwidth is not a problem for a satellite.
[16:20:07] <stdhell> crutchy: They use it for TV, you know...
[16:20:12] <crutchy> yeah
[16:20:22] <Konomi> LaminatorX: I don't understand why wireless repeaters aren't used
[16:20:27] <crutchy> big data applications
[16:20:44] <crutchy> trunks and backbones and stuff
[16:20:54] <Konomi> good line of sight and a bit of effort cna go a long way
[16:20:55] <Konomi> plus solar
[16:21:02] <LaminatorX> They are in some cases, Konomi.
[16:21:10] <stdhell> Backbones are not only "big data" applications.
[16:21:19] <crutchy> true
[16:21:31] <crutchy> but for the internet
[16:21:42] <stdhell> I would think most of it is "small data", but I don't have any numbers.
[16:22:23] <crutchy> sort of stuff akamai uses for its caching
[16:23:20] <stdhell> Don't they use off the shelf hardware?
[16:23:25] <Konomi> bit o spam time
[16:23:27] <Konomi> I was working on a similar(ish) project about ten years ago for the company I was with at the time. We were creating wifi links to remote communities from leased lines in schools, govenment buildings in Northern inner WA.
[16:23:31] <Konomi> We were using expensive, high power output 300mW (from memory) 802.11b cards at the time though. Distance attained were close to 20km, and both ends had proper parabolic antennas, about 15-16" in diameter for very focused transmission. By the time we got to these distances though highest connection speed was always 1mbps, with actual throughput at a fraction of that. Latency wasn't exactly amazing either :)
[16:24:10] <Konomi> wish I had some ping values for that
[16:29:25] <crutchy> would be awesome to have a wifi network still to get around some of the limitations imposed by isps
[16:29:58] <crutchy> a kind of hackernet
[16:31:10] <stdhell> crutchy: Isn't that what something like B.A.T.M.A.N. is for?
[16:31:29] <stdhell> And other meshnetworks.
[16:31:34] <crutchy> no idea
[16:32:07] <crutchy> to me wifi is just wifi
[16:32:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Seizing Data for 2.5 Years Amounts to "General Warrant" Court Says: - http://sylnt.us - another-outbreak-of-commonsense
[16:32:16] <crutchy> im not a network guru
[16:32:46] <crutchy> even the sat stuff that i mentioned was vague memories from years ago when i went to space conferences
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[16:35:40] <crutchy> gday weeds
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[16:50:17] <weeds> Good Morning (from Panama, Fla)
[16:50:32] <Blackmoore> mornin
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[17:19:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin
[17:20:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> late but still...
[17:25:23] <Blackmoore> morni TheMightyBuzzard
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[17:28:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> been working on slashd tasks being unicode happy this morn. they are as far as i can tell now.
[17:29:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> bit hacky in that i hardcoded some utf8 love in instead of doing an if but i can fix that in a bit.
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[17:33:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> ewww, nope. only mostly fixed. for some reason the subject lines are getting mangled.
[17:42:40] <mechanicjay> I love that in 2014, I still see tickets like come into our HelpDesk queue: "Customer cannot log into the novell network "
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[17:51:12] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - European Defense Firms Profiting from Snowden - http://sylnt.us - hardly-surprising
[17:54:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> mechanicjay, holy shite... that's so 20 years ago.
[17:56:21] <mechanicjay> Still running Novell File Servers for central file storage here. Some really good Novell/Attatchmate products in the mix here, but the File Storage setup hasn't really changed much in 20 years....it's time to change.
[17:58:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> still using IPX then?
[17:58:20] <mechanicjay> GOD no.
[17:58:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> whew. only so 15 years ago then
[17:58:44] <mechanicjay> :)
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[18:00:36] <Blackmoore> oh good god. even Novell moved off IPX
[18:00:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, i really do not miss it.
[18:01:31] <mechanicjay> TheMightyBuzzard: Actually, that's not quite fair either. The file servers themselves are OES (Novell services running on top of Suse Enterprise Linux). I think there are only like 1 or 2 Netware servers left and they're virtual.
[18:01:56] LaminatorX is now known as LaminatorX|afk
[18:03:41] * TheMightyBuzzard gets back to finding out what in our rss system thinks it should encode unicode to html entities when the former is legal in xml while the latter is not.
[18:13:26] * NCommander still sees some IPX from time to time
[18:13:36] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, the RSS code is special
[18:13:53] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, honestly, it might be saner to replace the entire thing as a theme, and delete Slash/*/RSS
[18:14:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm...
[18:14:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> rss would be all dynamic then
[18:17:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, might look into doing that later since it does offer some advantages. for now i think it's probably quicker to trace down the issue.
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[18:31:42] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, theorically, it shouldn't be *THAT* difficult. You just need to override the templates in index.pl, probably using simple design as a basis
[18:33:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, honestly, there's already dynamic rss ability built in. it's just turned off in vars. i haven't even tested it.
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[18:56:11] * LaminatorX remembers setting up IPX in the dorm lounge to play multiplayer DOOM.
[18:59:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> eh, i'll work on it tomorrow. people not wanting to leave me in peace to code today.
[19:10:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> two phone calls n a few people bugging me over IM
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[19:20:18] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - NYC Taxi Records - Yet Another Anonymization Fail - http://sylnt.us - never-underestimate-the-power-of-a-geek
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[19:23:54] <arti> context switching is expensive
[19:26:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> truly. i had absolutely no idea where i was so i just closed everything out and i'll try it again tomorrow.
[19:28:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> believe some minecraft is just the thing to clear out the cognitive dissonance
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[20:23:23] <Blackmoore> minecraft++
[20:23:23] <Bender> karma - minecraft: 1
[20:41:18] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Google Glass to be Available in the UK - http://sylnt.us - rise-of-the-tea-drinking-cyborgs
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[22:00:18] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Social Media Complaints 'At Least Half' of Calls Passed to Front-Line Police in UK - http://sylnt.us - whole-world-is-a-schoolyard
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[23:28:54] <Blackmoore> but i wanted to recreationally pick up and relocate buildings
[23:53:42] <crutchy> hi Blackmoore
[23:53:46] <crutchy> coffee++
[23:53:46] <Bender> karma - coffee: 292
[23:53:52] <crutchy> workipoos--
[23:53:52] <Bender> karma - workipoos: -2
[23:53:57] <mattie_p> mmmm coffee
[23:54:00] <mattie_p> coffee++
[23:54:00] <Bender> karma - coffee: 293
[23:54:05] <crutchy> hi mattie_p
[23:54:12] <mattie_p> hi crutchy
[23:54:37] <mattie_p> how goes IRC civ?
[23:55:21] <crutchy> i been improving the bot lately, so it kinda got put on hold but almost ready to get back into it
[23:55:31] <crutchy> how's muddy land?
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