#Soylent | Logs for 2014-05-17

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[00:03:53] <arti> i'd just disable the environmental effects
[00:07:10] <Blackmoore> up up down down left right left right B A
[00:11:08] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Electronic Neck Cuff Keeps Blood Pressure in Check - http://sylnt.us - collar-controls-capillary-conduit-constriction
[00:13:18] <Blackmoore> AH now we see what Woods did.
[00:14:04] <chromas> For his next trick, all the words in alphabetical order
[00:14:41] * arti chuckles
[00:22:12] <arti> "For instance, you will get tips which address common CMS implementation challenges without plugin dependence and cover a handful of API calls and integration with PHP codes."
[00:22:16] <arti> > PHP CODES
[00:24:15] -!- mechanicjay|lunch has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[00:25:22] <NCommander> My back is killing me
[00:25:25] <NCommander> :-/
[00:25:34] <arti> Back rolls for initiative!
[00:25:42] <arti> !roll 1d20
[00:25:50] <arti> :O
[00:26:08] <arti> muh bot
[00:26:51] <arti> were you doing your flips again?
[00:35:38] <Blackmoore> or not enough flips?
[00:36:08] * chromas recommends the Miracle Spine-O-Cylinder (patent pending)
[00:48:21] <crutchy> need an expert medical guy to push you over it though
[00:49:07] -!- FunPika [FunPika!~FunPika@Soylent/Staff/Wiki/FunPika] has joined #Soylent
[00:49:07] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v FunPika] by juggler
[00:50:05] <exec> ____________
[00:50:06] <exec> < hi FunPika >
[00:50:06] <exec> ------------
[00:50:06] <exec> \ ^__^
[00:50:06] <exec> \ (oo)\_______
[00:50:06] <exec> (__)\ )\/\
[00:50:06] <exec> ||----w |
[00:50:07] <exec> || ||
[00:53:01] <FunPika> hi
[01:02:13] -!- JamesNZ [JamesNZ!~james@43-567-441-22.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #Soylent
[01:02:29] <crutchy> hi JamesNZ
[01:02:48] <JamesNZ> Hey crutchy :)
[01:07:11] <exec> destination override "#soylent" clear for nick "crutchy"
[01:09:52] <crutchy> coffee++
[01:09:52] <deadpeas> karma - coffee: 88
[01:10:15] <crutchy> i really should change that ^^^^
[01:10:35] <crutchy> feels like i'm dropping my pants
[01:10:49] <chromas> Waiting for a burrito...
[01:11:26] <crutchy> hmm i should change clear to cleared
[01:11:59] <JamesNZ> $burrito chromas
[01:11:59] * aqu4 chucks a nasty, rotten burrito at chromas
[01:12:05] * JamesNZ obliges
[01:12:48] * chromas expertly catches said burrito single-handedly and passes it to _NSAKEY
[01:12:52] * AndyTheAbsurd gives JamesNZ a scorpionfish
[01:13:05] * AndyTheAbsurd gives chromas a quesadilla
[01:13:28] * JamesNZ handles his scorpionfish gingerly
[01:13:56] * chromas accepts quesadilla and tnanks AndyTheAbsurd with a AndyTheAbsurd.beverageOfChoice()
[01:15:54] mrcool|afk is now known as mrcoolbp
[01:17:13] -!- exec has quit [Quit: exec]
[01:21:29] <Blackmoore> O.O
[01:21:37] <Blackmoore> ok then
[01:21:42] <Blackmoore> coffee++
[01:21:42] <deadpeas> karma - coffee: 89
[01:22:11] <crutchy> coffee++
[01:22:11] <deadpeas> karma - coffee: 90
[01:23:18] <crutchy> wouldn't it be weird if the NSA was listening to us... with a bot called "NSA_LISTENING_BOT"
[01:23:32] <crutchy> that would be so sneaky
[01:24:10] <chromas> Yeah, it's like when you tell people you sell drugs for a living. They just think you're joking and move on
[01:24:39] <chromas> Did I say that out loud?
[01:24:43] * arti pushes a box further under the desk with his foot
[01:24:47] <crutchy> cos intercepting our encrypted traffic and decrypting it later would be too easy for them... they couldn't justify their budget that way
[01:25:21] <crutchy> chromas: everyone needs to make a living
[01:25:44] <chromas> And everyone wants drugs
[01:26:00] <crutchy> supply and demand
[01:26:10] <crutchy> makes the world go round
[01:26:26] <crutchy> (cos a triangle world would be too much)
[01:27:25] <crutchy> arti: do you talk to your box?
[01:27:34] <crutchy> ooh that came out wrong
[01:27:44] <chromas> arti pats his box
[01:27:53] <arti> is this akin to a package?
[01:28:05] <crutchy> of the female variety
[01:28:08] <chromas> If you're XX
[01:28:17] <arti> indeed
[01:28:26] <chromas> That's why you install and run fingerd
[01:28:31] <arti> uh, it's more like cpr rather than talking
[01:28:33] <crutchy> lol
[01:28:51] <arti> but if the wee ones saw this i'd go with talking
[01:29:02] <crutchy> as long as you don't breath in
[01:29:42] <arti> https://www.youtube.com
[01:31:04] <chromas> theprodigy++
[01:31:04] <deadpeas> karma - theprodigy: 1
[01:32:06] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Ask Soylent: Alternatives to Google Voice - http://sylnt.us - contemplating-changing-cellphone-calling-carrier
[01:32:46] <chromas> Hehe, Skype
[01:33:01] <chromas> Microsoft has an answer to everything Google
[01:33:11] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[01:36:37] crutchy is now known as crutchy|blah
[01:36:43] crutchy|blah is now known as crutchy
[01:37:24] <stderr> Now that we have a shorter list of domain names, I was wondering if someone wanted to sell some of the other names?
[01:38:35] <chromas> Like std.in ?
[01:38:56] <stderr> I don't think std.in was one of the choices and I already got stdin.dk, so....
[01:40:11] <crutchy> what about stderr.sex?
[01:40:37] <stderr> Hmm, maybe...
[01:40:52] <crutchy> .sex sells afterall
[01:40:53] <stderr> But I was talking about some of the names that didn't make it.
[01:41:05] <chromas> As long as you don't redirect stderr to stdout she won't know...
[01:41:08] <crutchy> like 8008135.org
[01:41:33] <chromas> As in you're looking to buy?
[01:41:48] <crutchy> i think the idea is to route stderr to stdin and stdout in a loop
[01:42:32] <stderr> Yes. Unfortunately I can't remember who got the domains I was considering... But we have already talked about me buying some of them, if they wasn't picked for the site.
[01:42:46] <crutchy> except routing stderr to stdin always results in an error :-/
[01:43:10] <stderr> MrBluze / mrcoolbp: Was it one of you, who got the domains, I wanted?
[01:43:15] <crutchy> what names?
[01:43:27] <stderr> :-)
[01:43:29] <mrcoolbp> yes, which?
[01:43:36] <mrcoolbp> oh you mean ionews?
[01:43:39] <crutchy> i'm using port119.net
[01:43:58] <crutchy> i'm a domain squatter :-P
[01:44:11] <stderr> mrcoolbp: No, geekcard and well, port119, but I see that's in use now. :-/
[01:44:11] <crutchy> except im using it
[01:44:25] <mrcoolbp> stderr: I think it was MrBluze
[01:44:26] <crutchy> lol i can use something else
[01:44:36] <crutchy> ping mrbluze
[01:44:36] <chromas> They took your geekcard?
[01:44:49] <crutchy> i never had one
[01:44:58] <stderr> chromas: I was the one who suggested it. I just didn't have any money at the time.
[01:45:06] <chromas> ah
[01:45:07] <stderr> I also suggested port119.
[01:45:25] <crutchy> i cut out a square of cardboard from a cereal box and wrote geek on it
[01:45:52] <crutchy> i can put my dns back to irciv.us.to pretty easily
[01:45:55] * chromas doesn't goto conventions or talk to people and so doesn't need a card
[01:45:57] <stderr> Pfffttt... I cut off a piece of a motherboard...
[01:46:27] <chromas> I did go to a ham swap once and saw a Commodore 264
[01:46:41] <stderr> 264?
[01:46:48] <crutchy> lol
[01:46:58] <crutchy> doodling is fun
[01:47:16] <chromas> Plus/4 according to the Fount of All Knowldge
[01:47:44] <chromas> Though I recall the arrow-shaped keys beig blue
[01:47:58] <chromas> s/(.)//g
[01:47:58] <SedBot> <chromas>
[01:48:17] <crutchy> hi sedbot
[01:49:11] <chromas> crutchy: s/sedbot/crutchy/
[01:49:12] <SedBot> <chromas> <crutchy> hi crutchy
[01:49:35] <chromas> crutchy: s/(crutchy)(sedbot)/\2\1/
[01:49:46] <chromas> "No sir, I didn't like it"
[01:50:16] <crutchy> i decided to restrict the use of ~dest-override
[01:50:25] <crutchy> paranoia
[01:50:38] <chromas> To a channel? Could also require +v or +o
[01:51:39] <crutchy> true
[02:04:00] -!- SpallsHurgenson [SpallsHurgenson!~SpallsHur@gdzt-78-534-547-681.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #Soylent
[02:04:36] <crutchy> hi SpallsHurgenson
[02:04:55] <SpallsHurgenson> hello, Mr Crutchy sir!
[02:05:31] <crutchy> SpallsHurgenson: s/si/gi/
[02:05:31] <SedBot> <crutchy> <SpallsHurgenson> hello, Mr Crutchy gir!
[02:06:08] <crutchy> eeeee heeeeeeee heeeeee heeeeee heeeeeeew
[02:06:32] <crutchy> i'm not stoopid... i'm advanced :-P
[02:06:35] -!- Nerdfest has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[02:06:50] <SpallsHurgenson> <backing away slowly>
[02:06:53] <crutchy> lol
[02:08:48] <Blackmoore> g'night all!
[02:08:59] <Blackmoore> have a good weekend.
[02:09:20] -!- Nerdfest [Nerdfest!~quassel@614-36-601-610.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #Soylent
[02:09:37] * SpallsHurgenson looks at the list of names for the website and realizes that he hates all of them
[02:09:53] <SpallsHurgenson> then again, I didn't vote or submit anything better, so I can't complain too loudly :)
[02:10:01] <stderr> Guess I'm not alone then. :-)
[02:10:07] <arti> well you didn't do it in uppercase
[02:10:10] <SpallsHurgenson> well, I /can/ complain, but I probably shouldn't :)
[02:10:24] <mrcoolbp> SpallsHurgenson: complain away = )
[02:10:28] <SpallsHurgenson> it's sad when "soylentnews" is the least objectionable name :)
[02:10:46] <stderr> SpallsHurgenson: I did suggest some names and did vote. If you want, you can complain on my behalf. :-)
[02:10:55] <Blackmoore> i wanted 8008135 but well..
[02:10:57] -!- SirFinku_ [SirFinku_!~SirFinkus@l-64-313-06-125.hsd0.wa.comcast.net] has joined #Soylent
[02:11:12] <SpallsHurgenson> ehn, it doesn't really matter anyway; it's not like I visit the site because of the name.
[02:11:49] -!- Blackmoore has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[02:12:53] <stderr> I hope we get to see a list of the votes from the previous round.
[02:13:23] -!- SirFinkus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[02:13:59] <mrcoolbp> stderr: "Huh? How is "sudo" a pun on "pseudo"? The words doesn't even sound remote alike at all." ?
[02:14:14] <stderr> Yes?
[02:14:27] <mrcoolbp> http://soylentnews.org
[02:14:41] <mrcoolbp> they are pronounced exactly the same...
[02:15:53] <SpallsHurgenson> oooh, computer term pronunciation fight! .GIF is spoken with a hard "g"!" :)
[02:15:59] <crutchy> in australia they are
[02:16:16] <mrcoolbp> I always thought "sudo" was a pun on psuedo as in psuedo super user
[02:16:22] <crutchy> might be one of those tomato/tomato things
[02:16:25] <mrcoolbp> maybe
[02:17:00] <stderr> Really? I pronounce sudo "Sue do"... pseudo is pronounced more like "sev-do".
[02:17:10] * arti o.o
[02:17:13] <crutchy> SpallsHurgenson: only if you're a pleb, like me!
[02:17:21] <FunPika> https://en.wiktionary.org
[02:17:22] <mrcoolbp> SpallsHurgenson: an angel loses it's wings every time someone says .GIF as "jif"
[02:17:34] <arti> sev-do
[02:17:37] <mrcoolbp> sev-do?
[02:17:47] * SpallsHurgenson rips off some more angel wings by pronuncing URL as "earl" :)
[02:17:54] * mrcoolbp shudders
[02:18:10] <crutchy> jif sounds like a laundry liquid
[02:18:20] <mrcoolbp> or a peanut butter
[02:18:21] <SpallsHurgenson> or a peanut butter!
[02:18:22] <crutchy> lol earl
[02:18:24] <SpallsHurgenson> jinx
[02:18:25] <mrcoolbp> hah beat yah
[02:18:34] * SpallsHurgenson punches mrcoolbp in the shoulder twice
[02:18:36] <mrcoolbp> ouch
[02:18:45] <mrcoolbp> okay, gotta run guys
[02:18:46] <SpallsHurgenson> (do the kids still do that?)
[02:18:49] <crutchy> laundry liquid flavoured peanut butter
[02:18:59] <crutchy> cya mrcoolbp
[02:19:16] * mrcoolbp worked 13 hours, came home for food, and has to run off to play rock music
[02:19:21] <mrcoolbp> later crutchy
[02:19:24] <mrcoolbp> later all
[02:19:27] <arti> is that what you call sitting in traffic :P
[02:19:28] <SpallsHurgenson> have fun
[02:19:33] <mrcoolbp> oh I will
[02:19:40] <mrcoolbp> I'll turn it up to....12 this time~!
[02:19:53] mrcoolbp is now known as mrcool|afk
[02:19:55] <crutchy> so we can hear it in the land down under
[02:20:16] <mrcool|afk> https://www.google.com
[02:21:06] <stderr> arti / mrcoolbp: Maybe "sev-do" is how I would spell the sound in Danish... Not sure how I would spell the sound in English.
[02:21:15] <arti> aaaah
[02:21:20] <SpallsHurgenson> that song features prominently on my ipod's playlist :)
[02:21:27] <arti> you make more sense now
[02:21:33] <stderr> But I would NOT spell the sound of "sudo" the same way.
[02:21:41] <arti> welcome to english
[02:21:57] <arti> the borg of languages
[02:22:03] <SpallsHurgenson> that video takes everything in the song literally, doesn't it?
[02:23:48] <arti> pseudo comes from greek
[02:24:02] * arti assumed french
[02:24:03] * SpallsHurgenson has a sudden urge to watch /Mad Max/
[02:24:12] <arti> 2 man enter, 1 man leave
[02:24:18] <arti> WHO RUNS BARTER TOWN?
[02:24:29] <SpallsHurgenson> no, no, no. the original. the GOOD one
[02:25:57] <arti> as far as mel gibson action movies, my vote goes to apocalypto
[02:29:46] <SpallsHurgenson> haven't seen that one.
[02:30:19] <arti> put it in the action movie hopper.
[02:30:51] <SpallsHurgenson> I'm wary of modern Gibson films; he's nuts :)
[02:33:04] crutchy is now known as crutchy|i-like-a-cookie
[02:33:37] crutchy|i-like-a-cookie is now known as crutchy
[02:34:34] crutchy is now known as crutchy|i-like-a-cookie
[02:34:39] crutchy|i-like-a-cookie is now known as crutchy
[02:35:25] * SpallsHurgenson has a sudden and inexplicable craving for sugary biscuits
[02:35:54] <crutchy> i temporarily borked the civ exec line
[02:36:01] * JamesNZ moves them out of SpallsHurgenson's reach
[02:36:04] * crutchy is a dill
[02:37:02] <SpallsHurgenson> ah, the civ exec line, I see, of course
[02:38:14] <crutchy> what do you think about manta rays?
[02:40:17] <SpallsHurgenson> every time I think of manta rays I think of this movie poster http://www.hollywood-elsewhere.com
[02:40:34] <crutchy> i think of the spice world movie
[02:40:49] * crutchy admits he has seen the whole thing
[02:41:24] <SpallsHurgenson> <backs away slowly again>
[02:41:33] <crutchy> lol
[02:41:42] <crutchy> i'm normal... everyone else is weird
[02:42:46] <SpallsHurgenson> You spelled "weird" correctly. Get off IRC; your sort is not welcome here :)
[02:44:31] <crutchy> i smell plenty of other thinks rong
[02:46:26] <SpallsHurgenson> please stop sniffing people on IRC
[02:50:13] * stderr pokes MrBluze with a stick...
[02:58:16] <SpallsHurgenson> that's not a stick...
[02:58:39] <stderr> Ssshhh... He doesn't need to know that.
[02:58:51] -!- Brylarke [Brylarke!~qwerty@87.113.rhr.ig] has joined #Soylent
[02:58:51] -!- Ant [Ant!~qwerty@87.113.rhr.ig] has joined #Soylent
[03:01:13] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Russians Capture Cigarette-Smuggling Drone - http://sylnt.us - computerized-capers-create-cautious-cops
[03:23:07] <SpallsHurgenson> Zooooom!
[03:27:52] <stderr> In or out?
[03:29:32] -!- boioioing [boioioing!~pert.boio@76.84.hjr.llj] has joined #Soylent
[03:50:46] -!- SirFinku_ has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
[03:59:36] <arti> smuggling out of
[04:00:28] -!- SirFinkus [SirFinkus!~SirFinkus@l-64-313-06-125.hsd0.wa.comcast.net] has joined #Soylent
[04:17:03] <SpallsHurgenson> I feel like singing klingon opera
[04:26:55] <crutchy> coffee++
[04:26:55] <deadpeas> karma - coffee: 91
[04:28:15] <crutchy> stderr... would i be able to still use irciv.port119.net subdomain?
[04:28:44] <crutchy> i have a backup so no dramas if you want it for your own evil purposes :-P
[04:29:48] <stderr> Of course I want it for my own evil purposes. :-) But I don't have the domain yet and it seems people are asleep, so I probably won't get it any time soon.
[04:30:35] <crutchy> can i ask what evil purposes?
[04:30:49] <stderr> In other news: It seems SoylentNews is predicting the future: http://soylentnews.org
[04:31:20] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Massive Dose of Measles Virus Wiped Out Cancer - http://sylnt.us - cough-coryza-conjunctivitis-creating-contagion-cancels-cancer
[04:31:22] <stderr> crutchy: Well, port 119 is NNTP, so maybe something with news...
[04:31:42] <crutchy> wow. most news sites just make up shit about the present
[04:32:01] <crutchy> reporting the future is definitely a niche
[04:32:02] <chromas> Bootstrap for a p2p usenet replacement :)
[04:32:14] <crutchy> that would be cool
[04:32:30] <swiss> http://www.paxio.com why do people not talk about htis as much
[04:32:47] <stderr> chromas: Isn't NNTP pretty much P2P already?
[04:32:48] <crutchy> cos its not in the future
[04:33:08] <crutchy> swiss: apparently soylent reports on future happenings now
[04:33:14] <swiss> people talk about google fiber
[04:33:21] * chromas would like optical fiber
[04:33:23] <swiss> but not paxio
[04:33:26] <arti> crutchy, how else do you announce upgrades :P
[04:33:33] <swiss> paxio goes 1Gbps up and down
[04:33:44] <crutchy> paxio is so today :-P
[04:34:13] -!- Subsentient [Subsentient!~WhiteRat@universe2.us/Subsentient] has joined #Soylent
[04:35:11] * SpallsHurgenson struggles to achieve 1mbit :(
[04:35:32] <arti> it's not the size, it's how you use it
[04:36:18] * SpallsHurgenson uses it for ascii porn
[04:36:27] -!- exec [exec!~exec@709-27-2-01.cust.aussiebb.net] has joined #Soylent
[04:37:06] <exec> ________________
[04:37:06] <exec> < hi Subsentient >
[04:37:06] <exec> ----------------
[04:37:06] <exec> \ ^__^
[04:37:06] <exec> \ (oo)\_______
[04:37:07] <exec> (__)\ )\/\
[04:37:07] <exec> ||----w |
[04:37:08] <exec> || ||
[04:37:32] <Subsentient> ...
[04:38:18] <aqu4> Hi crutchy <o^====]----
[04:38:46] <chromas> aqu4 needs to get that lump checked...
[04:39:05] <chromas> Actually, with one line, it looks like a sword with a barb
[04:39:11] <SpallsHurgenson> I think that extremely happy stallion is talking to you, subsentient
[04:40:45] <exec> :-P
[04:42:00] <JamesNZ> "On the internet, no one knows you're a stallion" :D
[04:42:50] <crutchy> until you draw yourself with cowsay :-)
[04:43:19] <JamesNZ> Heh, yup.
[04:43:54] <chromas> Just stay away from certain cowfiles :)
[04:44:03] <crutchy> chromas: it might just be happy to see me
[04:45:53] <crutchy> those evil fortune cookies
[04:46:15] <crutchy> i still remember when exec dropped that shocker
[04:46:26] <crutchy> out of left field
[04:46:37] <chromas> cowsay -f telebears teehee
[04:46:42] <exec> error: command timed out
[04:47:12] <crutchy> cowsay -test
[04:47:18] <exec> error: command timed out
[04:47:25] <chromas> cowsay ah oh
[04:47:25] <exec> _______
[04:47:26] <exec> < ah oh >
[04:47:26] <exec> -------
[04:47:26] <exec> \ ^__^
[04:47:26] <exec> \ (oo)\_______
[04:47:26] <exec> (__)\ )\/\
[04:47:27] <exec> ||----w |
[04:47:27] <exec> || ||
[04:47:30] <crutchy> doesn't like anything starting with a dash
[04:47:47] <chromas> cowsay test-test
[04:47:48] <exec> ___________
[04:47:48] <exec> < test-test >
[04:47:48] <exec> -----------
[04:47:48] <exec> \ ^__^
[04:47:49] <exec> \ (oo)\_______
[04:47:49] <exec> (__)\ )\/\
[04:47:49] <exec> ||----w |
[04:47:50] <exec> || ||
[04:47:52] <SpallsHurgenson> who does? I mean, how are you even supposed to pronounce - ?
[04:48:21] <chromas> It's a psilent vowel
[04:48:22] <crutchy> in a terminal is just sits there like a dumb shit
[04:48:33] <crutchy> s/is/it/
[04:48:33] <SedBot> <crutchy> in a terminal it just sits there like a dumb shit
[04:48:45] <chromas> Could be trying to pass the - on to cowsay
[04:49:20] <chromas> Hm but that should still work
[04:49:21] <crutchy> if you type cowsay -test in a terminal it goes to a new line like its waiting for input or something
[04:49:36] <crutchy> that's why it times out for exec
[04:50:28] <stderr> Does "cowsay -- -test" work?
[04:51:09] <chromas> Yeah you can pipe the text into cowsay if you wnat
[04:51:19] <chromas> reads it in stdin and the moos at stderr
[04:51:40] <chromas> or stdhell if you use the demonic cow
[04:51:45] <crutchy> cowsay -- -test
[04:51:50] <exec> error: command timed out
[04:51:54] <chromas> cowsay - horse
[04:51:58] <swiss> cowsay `ls`
[04:51:58] <exec> ______
[04:51:59] <exec> < `ls` >
[04:51:59] <exec> ------
[04:51:59] <exec> \ ^__^
[04:51:59] <exec> \ (oo)\_______
[04:51:59] <exec> (__)\ )\/\
[04:52:00] <exec> ||----w |
[04:52:00] <exec> || ||
[04:52:03] <swiss> aww
[04:52:04] <chromas> cowsay \-test
[04:52:04] <exec> ________
[04:52:05] <exec> < \-test >
[04:52:05] <exec> --------
[04:52:05] <exec> \ ^__^
[04:52:05] <exec> \ (oo)\_______
[04:52:05] <exec> (__)\ )\/\
[04:52:17] <arti> HNNNNNGGG
[04:52:20] <swiss> aww, throttled
[04:52:21] <chromas> Legs chopped off
[04:52:34] <crutchy> the rest showed up in exec's terminal
[04:52:41] <crutchy> the irc server must have got grumpy
[04:52:41] <arti> sure it did
[04:52:49] <swiss> crutchy: is the code available?
[04:52:55] <crutchy> ~
[04:52:56] <exec> IRC SCRIPT EXECUTIVE
[04:52:56] <exec> https://github.com
[04:52:56] <exec> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[04:52:57] <swiss> i wanna break it
[04:53:01] <arti> swiss is just aching to look at it in ST
[04:53:12] <crutchy> ST?
[04:53:16] <arti> sublime text
[04:53:43] <chromas> Is there a free version of that?
[04:53:52] <swiss> chromas: it's free-ish
[04:54:01] <stderr> cowsay "" -test
[04:54:01] <exec> __________
[04:54:01] <exec> < "" -test >
[04:54:01] <exec> ----------
[04:54:01] <exec> \ ^__^
[04:54:01] <exec> \ (oo)\_______
[04:54:02] <exec> (__)\ )\/\
[04:54:02] <exec> ||----w |
[04:54:03] <exec> || ||
[04:54:07] <chromas> I've seen that and some stuff I thought was pay-only in the AUR but hadn't looked closely
[04:54:17] <swiss> crutchy: i don't see the cowsay program. i see cowsay fortune
[04:54:43] <crutchy> cowsay is just a linux program
[04:54:43] <exec> _________________________
[04:54:43] <exec> < is just a linux program >
[04:54:43] <exec> -------------------------
[04:54:43] <exec> \ ^__^
[04:54:44] <exec> \ (oo)\_______
[04:54:44] <exec> (__)\ )\/\
[04:54:44] <exec> ||----w |
[04:54:45] <exec> || ||
[04:54:48] <crutchy> lol woops
[04:55:32] <swiss> cowsay %% `ls`
[04:55:32] <exec> _________
[04:55:32] <exec> < %% `ls` >
[04:55:32] <exec> ---------
[04:55:32] <exec> \ ^__^
[04:55:32] <exec> \ (oo)\_______
[04:55:33] <exec> (__)\ )\/\
[04:55:33] <exec> ||----w |
[04:55:34] <exec> || ||
[04:55:35] <swiss> hmmmm
[04:56:03] <stderr> cowsay \
[04:56:04] <exec> ___
[04:56:04] <exec> < \ >
[04:56:04] <exec> ---
[04:56:04] <exec> \ ^__^
[04:56:04] <exec> \ (oo)\_______
[04:56:05] <exec> (__)\ )\/\
[04:56:05] <exec> ||----w |
[04:56:06] <exec> || ||
[04:56:40] <crutchy> ~join #test
[04:58:45] <crutchy> if anyone wants to try to break exec, go for it in #test cos accidental bot flooding isn't frowned upon in there as much :-P
[05:00:46] <chromas> That's right…accidental
[05:01:22] <crutchy> i've only managed to bust it up bad today with that recursive log thing
[05:01:29] <crutchy> otherwise its been behaving pretty well
[05:02:55] <Subsentient> aqu4 is impenetrable
[05:03:16] * Subsentient expects sex jokes
[05:03:52] <arti> you need to make more holes
[05:03:52] <crutchy> exec is full of holes
[05:04:02] <Subsentient> arti: lollll
[05:04:04] <arti> crutchy, if we play word games we should be on the same team
[05:04:10] <Subsentient> lol
[05:04:20] <crutchy> exec is very promiscuous
[05:04:44] <arti> just like the network interfaces
[05:05:02] <JamesNZ> aqu4 is as well, it just isn't as promiscuous about who it's promiscuous with :P
[05:05:28] <crutchy> exec does have some limits
[05:05:37] <arti> probably due to the size of the hole
[05:05:40] <crutchy> ~say i don't like repeating just anyone
[05:05:40] <exec> i don't like repeating just anyone
[05:05:47] <arti> but when i do, i always do
[05:07:39] <Subsentient> switching machines
[05:07:45] -!- Subsentient has quit [Quit: Derp.]
[05:09:02] <chromas> aqu4 does take words in her mouth, though
[05:09:22] <chromas> $sr plus a reversed CTCP action string
[05:10:32] <chromas> also takes other things inside her
[05:12:52] <stderr> cowsay 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000foo?0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
[05:12:53] <exec> _________________________________________
[05:12:53] <exec> / 00000000000000000000 \
[05:12:53] <exec> | 0000000000000000000 |
[05:12:53] <exec> | 0000000000000000000 |
[05:12:54] <exec> | 00000000000000000000 |
[05:12:54] <exec> | 00000000000000000000 |
[05:12:54] <exec> | 0000000000000000foo?0 |
[05:12:55] <exec> | 0000000000000000000 |
[05:12:55] <exec> | 00000000000000000000 |
[05:12:56] <exec> | 00000000000000000000 |
[05:12:56] <exec> | 0000000000000000000 |
[05:12:57] <exec> \ 000000000 /
[05:12:57] <exec> -----------------------------------------
[05:12:58] <exec> \ ^__^
[05:13:07] <stderr> :-)
[05:13:32] <stderr> And with that, I think it's time for me to go to bed...
[05:13:50] <crutchy> did that trigger the floodometer?
[05:14:29] <crutchy> hmm i prolly need some kind of length limit on there
[05:14:50] <crutchy> otherwise someone could boot exec off the server with a single cowsay
[05:14:56] <crutchy> full of \n chars
[05:15:02] <stderr> cowsay foobarbaz
[05:15:02] <exec> _________________________________________
[05:15:02] <exec> / foo \
[05:15:02] <exec> | |
[05:15:02] <exec> | bar |
[05:15:02] <exec> \ baz /
[05:15:03] <exec> -----------------------------------------
[05:15:03] <exec> \ ^__^
[05:15:04] <exec> \ (oo)\_______
[05:15:04] <exec> (__)\ )\/\
[05:15:05] <exec> ||----w |
[05:15:05] <exec> || ||
[05:15:22] <chromas> cowsay detect those kinds of tricks and fire cowpies in retort
[05:15:23] <exec> _______________________________________
[05:15:23] <exec> / detect those kinds of tricks and fire \
[05:15:23] <exec> \ cowpies in retort /
[05:15:23] <exec> ---------------------------------------
[05:15:23] <exec> \ ^__^
[05:15:23] <exec> \ (oo)\_______
[05:15:24] <exec> (__)\ )\/\
[05:15:24] <exec> ||----w |
[05:15:25] <exec> || ||
[05:15:43] <stderr> IRC line length limit is around 512 bytes or so, if I remember correctly...
[05:17:07] <arti> indeed
[05:17:23] <crutchy> arti, can you do a ~say?
[05:17:31] <crutchy> haven't tested it
[05:17:37] crutchy is now known as crutchy|blah
[05:17:44] <crutchy|blah> ~say hi arti
[05:17:50] crutchy|blah is now known as crutchy
[05:17:54] <crutchy> ~say hi arti
[05:17:54] <exec> hi arti
[05:17:59] <arti> ~say testing
[05:18:04] <crutchy> mkay sorta works
[05:18:06] <chromas> ~say 08b07u05r02p
[05:18:10] <crutchy> lol
[05:18:15] * arti likes those colors
[05:18:23] <arti> feels very 80s
[05:19:53] <chromas> atdt...
[05:20:03] <arti> wasnt it dadt?
[05:20:35] <chromas> lol
[05:20:51] <chromas> Hayes won't tell if I don't
[05:21:52] <stderr> It was AT (as in "ATtention")
[05:23:17] -!- Subsentient [Subsentient!~WhiteRat@universe2.us/Subsentient] has joined #Soylent
[05:25:57] <crutchy> ~q
[05:25:58] -!- exec has quit [Quit: exec]
[05:26:54] <arti> bleh
[05:27:02] <arti> i've gained uber hours today
[05:27:07] <arti> like ~ 45
[05:28:02] <SpallsHurgenson> 45 hours per day is impressive
[05:28:13] <crutchy> i can barely cope with 24
[05:28:48] * SpallsHurgenson recommends moving to a smaller planet
[05:29:24] -!- exec [exec!~exec@709-27-2-01.cust.aussiebb.net] has joined #Soylent
[05:30:50] -!- exec has quit [Client Quit]
[05:35:52] * SpallsHurgenson sucks down some acetylsalicylic acid
[05:36:55] <crutchy> i've heard of that before
[05:37:18] <crutchy> in high school chem i think... i have no idea what it is
[05:37:28] <SpallsHurgenson> aspirin :)
[05:38:06] <crutchy> :-P
[05:38:30] <SpallsHurgenson> but I like saying acetylsalicylic acid :)
[05:38:36] <crutchy> sounds like something that would normally be said in high school chem
[05:38:49] <crutchy> that was 15 years ago for me
[05:39:23] <SpallsHurgenson> I also like acetaminophen and ibuprofen :)
[05:39:32] <crutchy> wholly carp that seems like such a long time when its typed like that :-(
[05:39:39] <chromas> ibuprofen's not a brand?
[05:39:48] <crutchy> neurofen is the brand
[05:39:53] <chromas> Never heard of it
[05:39:58] <SpallsHurgenson> it's the generic out-of-patent version of Advil
[05:40:10] <SpallsHurgenson> acetaminophen is Tylenol
[05:40:35] <crutchy> what about acidyacidic acid?
[05:41:03] <arti> sounds very oz
[05:41:07] <SpallsHurgenson> I think that's the stuff that burns through the spaceship in Aliens :)
[05:41:12] <crutchy> lol
[05:41:16] <chromas> recyclosaladsolicit, ah said
[05:42:10] <SpallsHurgenson> Foghorn Leghorn, is that you?
[05:42:34] <crutchy> lol i've heard of that too but have nfi what it is
[05:42:43] <crutchy> is that a book?
[05:42:43] <chromas> Bock
[05:42:58] <chromas> Cartoon cock
[05:42:59] <SpallsHurgenson> it's the big chicken from the looney toons cartoons. "That's a joke, ah say, that's a joke son!"
[05:43:20] <arti> LOL
[05:43:31] <crutchy> oh i say i say i say that fucking chicken
[05:43:56] <Subsentient> Replacing Fedora with SubLinux now
[05:44:07] <Subsentient> moved the Fedora install into /fedora and will use as a chroot.
[05:44:20] * SpallsHurgenson recommends Windows ME instead
[05:44:20] <Subsentient> Started the installer without creating a new FS so I can keep both :^D
[05:44:20] <crutchy> is sublinux based on debian?
[05:44:30] <Subsentient> crutchy: no
[05:44:34] <Subsentient> It's based on source.
[05:44:34] * arti assumed it was Subsentient's distro
[05:44:36] <crutchy> or vista running inside an msdos vm
[05:44:52] <arti> e-i-e-i-o
[05:45:00] <SpallsHurgenson> anyway
[05:45:04] -!- SpallsHurgenson has quit [Quit: sleepy time]
[05:45:16] <crutchy> night
[05:45:18] <Subsentient> It took some guides from LFS for the complicated PAM stuff and some of the video driver stuff etc, but mostly it's a unique OS unlike much of anything else.
[05:45:43] <crutchy> where's the source from?
[05:45:52] <chromas> Linux, x.org etc
[05:45:53] <Subsentient> I just used vanilla source.
[05:46:05] <crutchy> ah straight from the projects themselves
[05:46:08] <Subsentient> yeah
[05:46:20] * crutchy sounds all ghetto... sweet :-P
[05:46:50] <chromas> Needed a "dawg" or "yo" in there
[05:47:06] <crutchy> fuck yeah i can't even pass ghetto 101
[05:47:12] <crutchy> :-(
[05:47:24] <chromas> Just depends on the ghetto
[05:47:26] <crutchy> bitches
[05:47:29] <crutchy> :-P
[05:47:46] <chromas> But I guess for any one with projects. Other types would be like tents or something
[05:47:46] <arti> or ghetto 1944
[05:48:07] <crutchy> arti... that occurred to me too but i was hesitant to say
[05:48:15] <arti> i'm telling you, word games dude
[05:48:19] <arti> we'll kill it
[05:48:55] <crutchy> i had an idea for exec last night and now i fucking forgot it
[05:49:03] <crutchy> i though 'yeah i'll remember that'
[05:49:06] <arti> hahaha
[05:49:07] <chromas> Add sticky notes to exec
[05:49:15] <arti> man i should've picked up some scotch earlier
[05:49:24] <crutchy> ahh that's right
[05:49:37] <crutchy> it was something to help stderr identify important stuff on irc
[05:50:04] <crutchy> a keyword store that pm's you when someone mentions a keyword that you've set
[05:50:18] <crutchy> or something like that
[05:50:20] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Crypto-guru slams 'NSA-proof' Tech - http://sylnt.us - complex-cryptography-cannot-cover-corner-cutting
[05:50:27] <arti> it's the stazi feature
[05:50:38] <arti> stasi*
[05:51:01] <crutchy> deadpeas: s/Crypto-guru/NSA/
[05:51:02] <SedBot> <crutchy> <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - NSA slams 'NSA-proof' Tech - http://sylnt.us - complex-cryptography-cannot-cover-corner-cutting
[05:52:41] <crutchy> arti@irc:~$ rm 1944
[05:52:57] <crutchy> :-P
[05:53:27] <crutchy> deadpeas: s/s/z/
[05:53:27] <SedBot> <crutchy> <deadpeas> [SoylentNewz] - Crypto-guru slams 'NSA-proof' Tech - http://sylnt.us - complex-cryptography-cannot-cover-corner-cutting
[05:53:33] <crutchy> deadpeas: s/s/z/g
[05:53:34] <SedBot> <crutchy> <deadpeas> [SoylentNewz] - Crypto-guru zlamz 'NSA-proof' Tech - http://zylnt.uz - complex-cryptography-cannot-cover-corner-cutting
[05:54:36] <chromas> SedBot: s/ew/ude/
[05:54:36] <SedBot> <chromas> <SedBot> <crutchy> <deadpeas> [SoylentNudez] - Crypto-guru zlamz 'NSA-proof' Tech - http://zylnt.uz - complex-cryptography-cannot-cover-corner-cutting
[05:54:57] <crutchy> lol
[05:55:26] <chromas> s/ude/ood/
[05:55:30] <crutchy> sedbot: s/ylent/oiled/
[05:55:30] <SedBot> <crutchy> <sedbot> <chromas> <SedBot> <crutchy> <deadpeas> [SooiledNudez] - Crypto-guru zlamz 'NSA-proof' Tech - http://zylnt.uz - complex-cryptography-cannot-cover-corner-cutting
[05:55:42] <crutchy> sedbot: s/oo/o/
[05:55:42] <SedBot> <crutchy> <sedbot> <crutchy> <sedbot> <chromas> <SedBot> <crutchy> <deadpeas> [SoiledNudez] - Crypto-guru zlamz 'NSA-proof' Tech - http://zylnt.uz - complex-cryptography-cannot-cover-corner-cutting
[05:56:10] <crutchy> sedbot: s/<crutchy>//
[05:56:10] <SedBot> <crutchy> <sedbot> <sedbot> <crutchy> <sedbot> <chromas> <SedBot> <crutchy> <deadpeas> [SoiledNudez] - Crypto-guru zlamz 'NSA-proof' Tech - http://zylnt.uz - complex-cryptography-cannot-cover-corner-cutting
[05:56:23] <crutchy> sedbot: s/crutchy//
[05:56:23] <SedBot> <crutchy> <sedbot> <> <sedbot> <sedbot> <crutchy> <sedbot> <chromas> <SedBot> <crutchy> <deadpeas> [SoiledNudez] - Crypto-guru zlamz 'NSA-proof' Tech - http://zylnt.uz - complex-cryptography-cannot-cover-corner-cutting
[05:56:31] <crutchy> sedbot: s/sedbot//
[05:56:31] <SedBot> <crutchy> <sedbot> <crutchy> <> <> <sedbot> <sedbot> <crutchy> <sedbot> <chromas> <SedBot> <crutchy> <deadpeas> [SoiledNudez] - Crypto-guru zlamz 'NSA-proof' Tech - http://zylnt.uz - complex-cryptography-cannot-cover-corner-cutting
[05:56:37] <crutchy> sedbot: s/sedbot//g
[05:56:37] <SedBot> <crutchy> <sedbot> <crutchy> <> <crutchy> <> <> <> <> <crutchy> <> <chromas> <SedBot> <crutchy> <deadpeas> [SoiledNudez] - Crypto-guru zlamz 'NSA-proof' Tech - http://zylnt.uz - complex-cryptography-cannot-cover-corner-cutting
[05:56:46] <crutchy> sorry i'll stop
[05:57:00] <chromas> SedBot: s/<()>//g
[05:57:00] <SedBot> <chromas> <SedBot> <crutchy> <sedbot> <crutchy> <crutchy> <crutchy> <chromas> <SedBot> <crutchy> <deadpeas> [SoiledNudez] - Crypto-guru zlamz 'NSA-proof' Tech - http://zylnt.uz - complex-cryptography-cannot-cover-corner-cutting
[05:57:18] <crutchy> there is such a thing as too much SoiledNudez?
[05:58:00] <crutchy> sedbot: s/crutchy/( . Y . )/g
[05:58:01] <SedBot> <crutchy> <sedbot> <chromas> <SedBot> <( . Y . )> <sedbot> <( . Y . )> <( . Y . )> <( . Y . )> <chromas> <SedBot> <( . Y . )> <deadpeas> [SoiledNudez] - Crypto-guru zlamz 'NSA-proof' Tech - http://zylnt.uz - complex-cryptography-cannot-cover-corner-cutting
[05:58:11] <crutchy> sorry couldn't help myself :-P
[05:59:00] -!- FunPika has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[05:59:07] -!- exec [exec!~exec@709-27-2-01.cust.aussiebb.net] has joined #Soylent
[06:00:05] <chromas> SedBot: s/.*/Nobody's talking anyhow/g
[06:00:05] <SedBot> <chromas> <SedBot> Nobody's talking anyhow
[06:01:05] <exec> hi chromas
[06:01:18] <exec> woohoo it works!
[06:01:20] <chromas> Hi mysterious ghost
[06:01:50] <chromas> exec, are you possessed by ghosticles?
[06:11:39] -!- Subsentient1 [Subsentient1!~WhiteRat@216.161.ghn.ql] has joined #Soylent
[06:11:51] <Subsentient1> Yessss
[06:11:51] <arti> heh
[06:11:56] <arti> ghosticles
[06:12:06] <arti> that's what spec players teabag you with
[06:12:07] <Subsentient1> I got Fedora in a chroot and I got my old /home under SubLinux!
[06:12:21] * JamesNZ looks warily at the Subsentient clone
[06:12:55] <crutchy> yes... clones cannot be trusted
[06:13:00] <arti> srs question: wtf is up with packt
[06:13:19] <crutchy> that's why we keep them on the island or on huge balls in space
[06:13:43] <arti> they seem to have quality issues
[06:15:45] <crutchy> yeah... there's a real danger of them developing their own thoughts and feelings
[06:15:49] <crutchy> which must be squashed
[06:17:54] -!- Subsentient1 has quit [Quit: Derp.]
[06:18:04] <arti> sounds like we're discussing replicants
[06:22:55] <chromas> arti: What kind of larnin' could ciri bots do of you put several in a channel together?
[06:27:47] -!- Nerdfest has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[06:28:26] <arti> it would be a feedback loop
[06:28:42] <arti> depending on the configuration could be every line, i usually opt for every 4th
[06:28:50] <arti> keeps the brain from growing too fast
[06:29:27] <arti> if you had them address one another, it would be a chain reaction
[06:29:49] <crutchy> and the irc server would explode?
[06:30:39] <arti> nah, the response lengths cap out at around 30 words
[06:31:02] <arti> it would take a lot more than that to saturate a connection
[06:31:26] <crutchy> needs more holes then
[06:32:39] * arti wouldn't mind being able to flood users offline
[06:32:47] <arti> good ol 90s internet
[06:38:10] -!- boioioing has quit [Quit: Gorn]
[06:43:35] <Subsentient> Yeah that new SubLinux is turning out to be pretty sweet
[06:43:37] <Subsentient> I'm pleased.
[06:43:43] <Subsentient> I expected more issues
[06:43:51] <Subsentient> the last full rebuild of SubLinux was a disaster
[06:45:04] * arti cheers
[06:46:25] <paulej72> we now hav 35 char usernames and unlimited password lenght on dev
[06:48:47] <arti> nicely done gents!
[06:51:00] <unitron> soliciting opinions on "BaconLibre" as a site name http://soylentnews.org
[07:07:10] -!- Nerdfest [Nerdfest!~quassel@614-36-601-610.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #Soylent
[07:10:47] <SirFinkus> so friday night fuckers
[07:10:51] <SirFinkus> what's everyone up to?
[07:11:11] <arti> catching up on some shows, trying not to work on anything
[07:11:22] <SirFinkus> which shows?
[07:11:41] <SirFinkus> I'm totally not torrent cosmos right now
[07:11:42] <arti> breaking bad, season 3, towards the end. i watch one here and there
[07:12:09] <SirFinkus> ahh, marathoned that a few weeks ago
[07:14:32] <SirFinkus> stupid thought: do we only perceive thinking as happening in our heads because we know that to be the case?
[07:14:58] <arti> been watching 24 too
[07:15:15] <SirFinkus> bah, pro torture propoganda
[07:15:25] <arti> sometimes i like passive entertainment
[07:15:41] <arti> othertimes interactive
[07:51:33] <MrBluze> xlefay: you have been idle for 9 days, 4 hours, 17 minutes and 42 seconds. This is not ok.
[07:51:42] <arti> high score
[07:53:01] * MrBluze awards xlefay a marsbar
[07:53:29] <SirFinkus> idlerpg champ 2014
[07:55:02] * arti hopes he has found a disease free human female
[07:55:56] <SirFinkus> finding them is easy
[07:56:14] <MrBluze> just hack into a pathology database
[07:56:24] <MrBluze> then match it to a singles database
[07:56:29] <MrBluze> profit
[07:57:06] <SirFinkus> ask her for a blood sample when you meet her
[07:57:08] <arti> uh not me, xlefay
[07:57:12] * arti has acquired one
[07:57:26] <SirFinkus> xlefay is dead
[07:57:32] <arti> weekend at bernies
[07:57:46] <SirFinkus> ok, stupid thought
[07:57:51] <arti> yes.
[07:58:17] <SirFinkus> if you were diagnosed with a terminal disease, and would die in the near future, would you tell irc?
[07:58:25] <arti> yeah, in the form of a joke
[07:58:28] <arti> srsly
[07:58:48] <arti> actually, i'd write a fortune bot
[07:59:08] <arti> where it gives wild answers for everyone but me
[07:59:15] <SirFinkus> I did that once, it backfired when they believed I had ebola
[07:59:31] <arti> !howlongdoihave
[07:59:50] <SirFinkus> outlook uncertain
[08:05:07] -!- SirFinkus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[08:05:07] -!- SirFinku_ [SirFinku_!~SirFinkus@l-64-313-06-125.hsd0.wa.comcast.net] has joined #Soylent
[08:05:17] <SirFinku_> :/
[08:05:32] <arti> damn peer
[08:06:52] <SirFinku_> idk wtf is up with my connection
[08:06:53] <SirFinku_> I probably wouldn't even notice it with normal browsing
[08:07:01] <MrBluze> its not the same thing
[08:07:09] <MrBluze> the connection to this IRC is often interrupted fot me
[08:07:14] <MrBluze> for me
[08:07:21] <MrBluze> other stuff isn't interrupted quite as much, including downloads
[08:07:29] <SirFinku_> what isn't the same thing?
[08:07:29] -!- Subsentient has quit [Quit: Derp.]
[08:07:37] <MrBluze> normal browsing
[08:07:48] <MrBluze> there's summin about the connetion to the server
[08:07:57] <SirFinku_> hmm, well in this case my connection died entirely
[08:08:15] <SirFinku_> I mean, my torrents stopped and shit
[08:08:25] <SirFinku_> skype convo died
[08:08:40] <arti> NSA just kicked in yo
[08:09:25] <SirFinku_> ehh, that seems like it would have happened long ago
[08:09:37] <arti> shift change
[08:11:27] SirFinku_ is now known as SirFinkus
[08:14:54] <SirFinkus> I wonder if soylentnews has a folder yet
[08:15:12] <MrBluze> its membership has a folder
[08:25:05] <arti> you mean a directory :P
[08:26:08] <SirFinkus> this is the government, I was referring to a physical folder
[08:32:15] <arti> this is the NSA, i was referring to the data they've collected
[08:51:08] <crutchy> coffee++
[08:51:08] <deadpeas> karma - coffee: 92
[08:51:12] <arti> beer++
[08:51:12] <deadpeas> karma - beer: 6
[08:51:53] <SirFinkus> beer++
[08:51:53] <deadpeas> karma - beer: 7
[08:52:02] <SirFinkus> but I'm out ;_;
[08:52:08] <arti> what were you drinking?
[08:52:21] <SirFinkus> oatis and some ipa
[08:52:43] <arti> sounds good
[08:52:43] <SirFinkus> inversion, local brewery
[08:52:56] <SirFinkus> ipa is kind of meh, but oatis is good as always
[08:53:25] <SirFinkus> watching the dota 2 international qualifiers
[08:54:09] <arti> "their micro is off the charts good"
[08:54:54] <SirFinkus> dota is fun to watch, but infuriating to play
[08:54:59] <SirFinkus> yet oddly addictive
[08:57:41] <SirFinkus> what are you drinking arti ?
[08:57:56] <arti> i'm drinking water
[08:58:04] <SirFinkus> pfft
[08:58:05] <SirFinkus> no fun
[08:58:15] <arti> yeah, been cutting down on the beer
[08:58:18] <arti> liquid calories man
[08:58:23] * arti enjoys it
[08:58:30] <arti> i'll pick up a bottle of balvenie tomorrow
[08:58:43] <SirFinkus> I replaced soda with water and beer
[08:58:49] <SirFinkus> down to one soda a day
[08:59:00] <arti> soda was hard to give up
[08:59:13] <SirFinkus> oh, tea too
[08:59:20] <arti> tea is good
[08:59:43] <SirFinkus> iced green tea is much nicer than soda, even though it makes you piss every 5 minutes
[08:59:52] <arti> heh
[09:01:44] <arti> if you're looking for another flavor: http://www.dragonherbs.com
[09:03:21] <SirFinkus> I like ito en
[09:03:45] <SirFinkus> it's the coca cola of green tea in japan
[09:03:56] <arti> i'll scope it out
[09:04:22] <SirFinkus> you can get it at costco branded as kirkland signature
[09:04:49] * arti buys a few things at costco
[09:04:52] <arti> mainly bacon
[09:05:32] <SirFinkus> it's cheap too, like $.12 a bag
[09:06:10] <arti> i usually make a big pitcher
[09:06:26] <SirFinkus> can be done, you can cold brew it too
[09:36:32] <arti> hey what's that called where the asian (japanese?) models do all the expressions quickly
[09:36:37] <arti> there must be some name for that
[09:37:11] * arti must be able to call this curiously annoying phenomena by its rightful name
[09:38:44] <chromas> viseme iteration?
[09:38:47] * chromas just made that up
[09:43:48] -!- boioioing [boioioing!~pert.boio@76.84.hjr.llj] has joined #Soylent
[09:43:55] <arti> huhuhuhuh
[09:48:38] -!- pbnjoe [pbnjoe!~pbnjoe@Soylent/Users/313/pbnjoe] has joined #Soylent
[10:04:11] <SirFinkus> idk
[10:04:16] <crutchy> fiik
[10:04:21] <arti> fek
[10:04:29] <crutchy> :-P
[10:06:18] <SirFinkus> jkldsakfj
[10:08:52] -!- pbnjoe has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[10:10:35] -!- SirFinkus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[10:10:36] <crutchy> coffee++ is a suitable ping substitute :-P
[10:10:37] <deadpeas> karma - coffee: 93
[10:10:47] <crutchy> or beer++
[10:11:08] <swiss> A/C good.
[10:11:09] <swiss> A/C friend.
[10:11:41] <crutchy> where are you?
[10:13:30] <arti> yeah, it's really helped since the sun went down
[10:15:27] <swiss> southern california
[10:15:30] <swiss> fullerton, currently
[10:15:46] <arti> ever do any 2600 meets?
[10:17:41] <crutchy> weather fullerton california
[10:17:44] <exec> Weather for Fullerton CSU, CA, United States Of America at 2014-05-17 06:50:00 (UTC) ~ 1.5 hrs ago:
[10:17:44] <exec> temperature = 73°F (22.8°C) dewpoint = 58.3°F (14.6°C)
[10:17:44] <exec> barometric pressure = 1013.9 mb ~ change of 0 mb over past 1 hrs relative humdity = 60%
[10:17:44] <exec> wind speed = 3 mph (4.8 km/h) wind direction = 200°
[10:19:34] <crutchy> isdown soylentnews.org
[10:19:35] <exec> soylentnews.org: HTTP/1.1 200 OK
[10:21:50] <arti> getting some handy features added
[10:22:07] <swiss> arti: no
[10:28:47] <crutchy> fatphil's idea for the isdown one
[10:29:34] <crutchy> took a whole 6 or so lines
[10:29:43] <arti> you should code it in perl
[10:29:55] <crutchy> you can :-P
[10:30:05] <crutchy> i'll add it to exec
[10:30:13] <arti> i'm sticking to my hard as hell terse language
[10:30:16] <chromas> Who was doing haskell?
[10:30:19] <crutchy> lol
[10:30:21] <chromas> or ocaml
[10:30:26] <arti> o/
[10:30:39] <crutchy> write a haskell script for exec then
[10:30:46] <crutchy> my demo is kinda gay
[10:30:56] <arti> does it hump other male demos?
[10:31:02] <crutchy> haskell
[10:31:20] <crutchy> oops
[10:31:22] <crutchy> sh: 1: runhaskell: not found
[10:31:39] <crutchy> haven't installed it on my laptop
[10:31:42] <crutchy> :-P
[10:31:49] <arti> ah this made me laugh " Odd. Religious schools are usually open-minded."
[10:31:53] <crutchy> perl
[10:31:54] <exec> hello from perl
[10:32:03] <crutchy> hmm at least perl is installed
[10:32:30] <crutchy> arti: yeah as long as you think like them
[10:32:55] <chromas> It's open on the inside; that's what's important, right?
[10:33:20] <arti> it's a story about a girl whose photo isn't appearing in the year book because she wore a tux
[10:33:20] <crutchy> open to sodomy,etc
[10:33:42] <chromas> goaste-minded
[10:33:45] <arti> its all a bunch of crap, i'm totally not outraged
[10:33:58] <crutchy> isdown goatse.cx
[10:33:59] <arti> if it were a public school, maybe. it's a private one
[10:34:00] <exec> goatse.cx: HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently
[10:34:07] <crutchy> 0.o
[10:34:35] <arti> when you go to a private one you agree to abide by rules, like dress codes, so the lesson is actions have consequences. story at 11
[10:34:56] <chromas> True, though they apparently let her wear it to the photo shoot
[10:35:19] <crutchy> would be ok if private schools relied on private money
[10:35:32] <chromas> So it's like TV. I want the actors to say "fuck" I just don't want to hear the actual word
[10:35:35] <crutchy> in australia some private schools get more government money than public schools
[10:36:26] <arti> sweet
[10:36:53] * arti has been to both public and private schools
[10:37:19] * crutchy is a public school pleb
[10:37:25] <arti> filthy casual
[10:37:47] <crutchy> it was uniform
[10:37:47] <arti> i really didn't like school until college
[10:38:25] <crutchy> the sec college i went to was prolly more strict about uniform than nearby private schools
[10:38:36] <swiss> i liked school for two years of college
[10:38:57] <arti> you were homeschooled up until that point right?
[10:39:07] <arti> this was like "fresh meat" territory huh
[10:40:29] <swiss> not me
[10:40:36] <swiss> i never was homeschooled
[10:40:44] <arti> not even with a belt?
[10:40:45] <swiss> i am a product of public education
[10:40:57] <arti> have you seen that common core crap?
[10:41:01] <exec> arti: there doesn't appear to be any other male bots here
[10:41:14] <swiss> huh
[10:41:29] <swiss> have you seen balls balls balls?
[10:41:31] <crutchy> public education in australia isn't that bad i reckon
[10:41:35] <swiss> hm
[10:41:42] <swiss> i'm in the U-S-of-A
[10:41:57] <chromas> I've seen bitching about common core on FB but no actual examples
[10:41:58] <crutchy> you poor thing
[10:42:22] <crutchy> you probably took out a mortgage to go to high school?
[10:42:42] <crutchy> or hasn't it filtered down to high school yet?
[10:43:05] <crutchy> or college, or whatever you call 7-12
[10:43:11] <swiss> that's high school
[10:43:21] <swiss> and nah, i went to cheap school
[10:44:16] <crutchy> i think my folks had to fork out $450-odd + books/stationery for me
[10:44:21] <crutchy> per yr
[10:44:31] <arti> wat
[10:44:41] <arti> that's crazy good
[10:45:02] <arti> shit's so out of control here
[10:45:14] <arti> pretty crazy administrators can make so much
[10:45:29] <arti> here's something i found: http://www.mercurynews.com
[10:45:31] <crutchy> usa politics/economy is like a sitcom for the rest of the world
[10:45:52] <chromas> Like on the disney channel?
[10:46:09] <chromas> You hear laughter after every sentence no matter how terrible?
[10:46:31] <crutchy> its kinda so sad that its funny
[10:46:56] <arti> it's amazing how much of our culture is exported
[10:47:25] <chromas> Ooh, a number bond
[10:47:40] <chromas> I guess it would help to have a definition table but
[10:49:25] <chromas> "Explain your thinking in words"
[10:49:38] <chromas> Well, I was gonna use boogers
[10:50:02] * arti enjoys pointing out to passengers when other drivers are spotted 'mining'
[10:50:31] <chromas> Digging for gold
[10:50:41] <arti> bwains.
[10:51:22] * chromas tries to resist joke about big goldmines and the Hebrew people
[10:51:46] <arti> because the air is free?
[10:51:52] * arti shows himself out
[10:51:56] <chromas> Even better
[10:52:08] <crutchy> except in thneedville
[10:52:17] <arti> that's a real place?
[10:52:24] <crutchy> yes
[10:52:25] <chromas> I was just thinking about how there'd be lost of supply of gold
[10:52:28] <arti> australia has some really interesting place names
[10:52:35] <chromas> for eating (which is in the bible)
[10:52:50] <crutchy> its part of televisionistan
[10:52:52] <arti> chromas, maybe that's what the nazis extracted
[10:52:58] <arti> but to make it sound scarier they said teeth
[10:53:47] <arti> http://i1.wp.com
[10:56:27] <arti> the circled area looks like runes
[10:56:38] <arti> "according the the bones, we're all dead, i mean 26"
[10:56:46] <chromas> "this is how I sold the problum"
[10:57:12] <arti> i like how the page numbers are written out
[10:57:24] <chromas> Am I blind or did he not actually put an answer on it?
[10:57:50] <arti> maybe they got a lawyer to do it. they're fond of the "You get One (1) Apple"
[10:58:25] <arti> the sticks are the answer
[10:58:27] <arti> the sticks and the dots
[10:58:39] <chromas> But they're already there
[10:58:56] <chromas> So the answer is just which way he solved it instead of the asnwer he got?
[10:59:12] <arti> it depends on what the definition of is is.
[10:59:37] <chromas> Clinton did the right thing until he got caught
[10:59:51] <chromas> Then it should have been "Yeah, I banged her. So?"
[11:00:19] <chromas> "Have you seen Hillary? Her vibrator won't go in there"
[11:00:20] <arti> s/./ mouth./g/
[11:00:29] <arti> :|
[11:01:24] <chromas> arti: s/(.)/( . Y .)/g
[11:01:24] <SedBot> <chromas> <arti> ( . Y .)( . Y .)
[11:01:56] <arti> my sedbot-fu is weak
[11:02:05] <chromas> Huh; in this font, the right dot is facing slightly to the right
[11:02:21] -!- boioioing has quit [Quit: Gorn]
[11:02:36] <chromas> s/(.)/hu/g
[11:02:36] <SedBot> <chromas> huhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhu
[11:02:48] <chromas> Too long, even for B&B
[11:04:01] <chromas> So if I'm understanding it correctly, common core just tells kids a few methods to solve a problem that already has the answer and then they just select a method?
[11:05:07] <chromas> At least those ones. This look normal: http://commoncoresheets.com
[11:06:47] <crutchy> multiple guess
[11:17:46] <crutchy> ~part
[11:17:47] -!- exec [exec!~exec@709-27-2-01.cust.aussiebb.net] has parted #Soylent
[12:05:32] -!- JamesNZ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[13:17:19] TheMightyBuzzard_ is now known as TheMightyBuzzard
[13:17:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[13:17:43] <deadpeas> karma - coffee: 94
[13:18:17] <crutchy> coffee++
[13:18:17] <deadpeas> karma - coffee: 95
[13:30:38] -!- michealpwalls [michealpwalls!~michealpw@cxnwzhcb-dv1-9-367.hamilton.auracom.net] has joined #Soylent
[13:30:52] <michealpwalls> 'morning, everyone :D
[13:32:30] <michealpwalls> Ugh, Ubuntu 12.04 LTS went soooooo long on my wife's netbook before an issue. Almost a year, now that I think about it.
[13:33:01] <michealpwalls> That's pretty damned good
[13:33:46] <michealpwalls> hehe nobody awake yet? :)
[13:33:57] <crutchy> its about 9.30pm here
[13:34:07] <crutchy> hi michealpwalls :-)
[13:34:13] <michealpwalls> Hey!
[13:34:21] <michealpwalls> haha wow, it's only 7:30am here
[13:35:36] <AndyTheAbsurd> hey, michealpwalls is in the same time zone I am!
[13:35:53] <michealpwalls> *hifive*
[13:37:17] <michealpwalls> This COBOL book was fucking ~$230... Highway robbery!
[13:37:31] <AndyTheAbsurd> ?
[13:37:43] * AndyTheAbsurd knows some COBOL from learning it on the job
[13:38:02] <michealpwalls> My Professor said a large fraction of COBOL 'programmers' were created that way ^
[13:38:12] <AndyTheAbsurd> yup
[13:38:19] <michealpwalls> Basically take whomever is willing, push them through some kind of COBOL training and *poof* we have a COBOL programmer LOL
[13:38:42] <AndyTheAbsurd> also a large fraction of COBOL programs are created by taking an existing COBOL program and modifying until it meets the new specifications
[13:38:55] <AndyTheAbsurd> Writing a brand-new COBOL program is a pain in the ass.
[13:39:13] <michealpwalls> Yes, it's crazy :/
[13:39:24] <michealpwalls> It makes perfect sense though,f rom a business standpoint I mean...
[13:39:57] <michealpwalls> Typically, they're some of the most important programs running save for some of the Ada programs powering defense systems hehehehe
[13:40:11] <AndyTheAbsurd> well, sure...if you want the CEO to be able to look at the code and understand some of what's going on.
[13:40:42] <michealpwalls> hehe yea
[13:49:34] <michealpwalls> Here's a story that's funny. Proof security is so much more challenging than "cracking"|"hacking": http://www.theregister.co.uk
[13:49:43] <michealpwalls> 4chan gets hacked (2x in one day) LOL
[13:50:44] <MrBluze> hmm
[13:51:10] <michealpwalls> Biased/poorly written story I know, sorry..
[13:51:14] <MrBluze> i think people get ambitious
[13:51:17] <michealpwalls> Only place I found the subject so far
[13:51:30] <MrBluze> and they add more and more complexity to their code .. or setup
[13:51:38] <MrBluze> and then it gets vulnerable
[13:51:49] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: It's very true and I have been guilty of it all the way up until *very* recently...
[13:51:58] <michealpwalls> My professors taught me that lesson (the hard way)
[13:52:07] <MrBluze> yeah, good programs are boring
[13:52:16] <MrBluze> like, pine
[13:52:20] <MrBluze> that is BORING
[13:52:27] <michealpwalls> It's so difficult to accept that you simply cannot write perfect code. It's mathematics really, you simply must submit to the math. The more the code, the more the bugs...
[13:52:30] <MrBluze> but try hacking pine
[13:52:43] <michealpwalls> If you decrease the size of code by keeping things simple... You inevitably decrease the amount of bugs :)
[13:52:58] <MrBluze> yeah, keep it short
[13:53:02] <michealpwalls> Exactly
[13:53:09] <MrBluze> or many small programs
[13:53:32] <MrBluze> each doing a very basic and limited thing
[13:54:01] <MrBluze> ... C is perfect for that .. it's tedious doing anything more than a few pages long in C
[13:54:11] <michealpwalls> That's where you get into really tough language concepts like Functional programming languages that *enforce* clumsy rules. The rules, basically, make it very hard to make mistakes hehe
[13:54:33] <michealpwalls> C is a rope IMHO. You can either do really cool things with it, or you can hang yourself. LMAO it's entirely up to you :D
[13:54:54] <MrBluze> yeah, but u hang yourself in C by making it too big
[13:55:09] <MrBluze> cause it gets so hard to find the unprocessed input that causes a leak
[13:55:10] <michealpwalls> Oh yes, I haven't made anything *significant* in C :O
[13:55:26] <michealpwalls> Dont' get me wrong, I like C and wish I had a lot more experience..
[13:55:29] <michealpwalls> But it never seems to work out :(
[13:56:07] <MrBluze> yeah, but C can be used to do something simple, like process a file or something .. then u call the C program from the insecure bloatware RAD library
[13:56:23] <michealpwalls> In college, there's a very strict seperation from "Applications" programming and "Systems" programming :/
[13:56:32] <MrBluze> .. so then you don't rely on the developers of the high level language not to be employees of NSA
[13:56:33] <michealpwalls> My feild of study is Applications programming, so it doesn't even touch upon C.
[13:57:13] <MrBluze> NSA will have their guys in PHP library writing, or wherever, and they will have hidden exploits in commonly used functions
[13:57:37] <michealpwalls> I think it's much simpler than that, for the very reasons we just agreed upon (The more complex, the more likely it fails)
[13:57:39] <MrBluze> or some widget library, most typically i would say
[13:57:41] <michealpwalls> NSA keeps it deadly simple..
[13:57:55] <MrBluze> yes complexity = failure
[13:58:10] <michealpwalls> They threaten, using coersion, the middle-men... Like your ISP, or the Certificate Authority that assured your browser you were indeed at php.net :)
[13:58:18] <michealpwalls> And not nsa.gov (Or whatever the fuck their domain is? LOL)
[13:58:37] <MrBluze> yep, for example
[13:58:45] <MrBluze> and then php.net uploads u the NSA version of php
[13:58:46] <michealpwalls> They win by playing extremely dirty. There's really not a lot we can do from a technical standpoint :/
[13:59:57] <michealpwalls> I think it's very destructive though. I'm all for government security, but at what point are we shooting ourselves in the foot by compromising the vital infrastructure like we have? :/
[14:00:15] <MrBluze> they envy nazi germany
[14:00:22] <MrBluze> nazi germany only failed because it was overpowered
[14:00:28] <MrBluze> ... and only by many many fold
[14:00:29] <michealpwalls> LOL Iunno about that, but boy is it ever concerning lately :/
[14:00:58] <MrBluze> they wanna be like that .. because it's a way of being basically indestructible
[14:01:28] <MrBluze> they couldnt beat the nazis until they cracked enigma, really
[14:01:45] <michealpwalls> I wonder if our government has simply lost --or is losing-- the fight for Information? Ever wondered that?
[14:02:07] <MrBluze> they are winning the fight for data
[14:02:12] <michealpwalls> It's like, when I was a kid the only one with a loudspeaker spreading "information" was the government. Now it seems all the players have somebody with a loudspeaker..
[14:02:17] <michealpwalls> And they're drowning out my government's speaker :/
[14:02:41] <MrBluze> yeah, but the way to exert influence on the populace is to bankrupt it
[14:03:02] <michealpwalls> Not always. That doesn't always work the way you might expect it.
[14:03:27] <michealpwalls> Take, for example, France. The monarchy thought that, if the people are poor and starving they are dosile..
[14:03:33] <MrBluze> i think such a thing as a financial crisis allows them to sift out the unliked ones by unemploying them
[14:03:50] <MrBluze> nah, but unemployment disables people
[14:03:50] <michealpwalls> But instead, they revolted and cut the monarchy's head(s) off, sparking the "Reign of Terror" that devolved into the French Empire under Napoleon.
[14:03:54] <MrBluze> they dont starve, but they cant do much
[14:04:11] <MrBluze> the revolution wasnt spontaneous
[14:04:26] <MrBluze> french one that is .. interesting which properties were preserved etc ;)
[14:04:49] <michealpwalls> Indeed ^
[14:04:57] <michealpwalls> Also, Ancient Rome. The Republic, it died giving birth to an incredibly powerful Empire due to their currency deflation. History shows that, Economics more than anything influence popular uprisings.
[14:05:02] <michealpwalls> But think about that, though...
[14:05:18] <michealpwalls> If these are such well-learned lessons from history, can you possibly beleive the powers that be are forgetting?
[14:05:26] <MrBluze> economics do .. the devaluation of the currency of rome was by 5% .. not more than that
[14:05:29] <michealpwalls> Or are they simply using the oldest, most tried tool in government history? :)
[14:05:42] <michealpwalls> Economics-fueld popular uprisings. Order out of Chaos, as the Romans called it :)
[14:05:56] <MrBluze> yep, definitely that works
[14:06:12] <michealpwalls> But it's a sustained 5%, though
[14:06:19] <michealpwalls> Just like our deflationary 3%..
[14:06:26] <michealpwalls> If you continue that for 50 years, where are you?
[14:06:34] <michealpwalls> Exponential decay is not something to shrug your sholders at :)
[14:06:35] <MrBluze> here?
[14:06:40] <michealpwalls> LOL
[14:07:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> wealth is not zero sum though
[14:07:18] <MrBluze> i dont think they are losing tbh
[14:07:19] <michealpwalls> Very true ^
[14:07:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's limited only by the creation of it by the people
[14:07:28] <michealpwalls> Wealth always shifts...
[14:07:42] <MrBluze> and currency games fail if the populace works them out
[14:07:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> shifts yes but it's created by the populace
[14:08:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> problem isn't inflating the currency, it's doing it faster than new wealth is created.
[14:08:18] <michealpwalls> There's a *lot* of Wealth in the Middle East right now.
[14:08:21] <michealpwalls> Take for example Dubai.
[14:08:28] <MrBluze> not wealth, money
[14:08:36] <MrBluze> the wealth is in the ground
[14:08:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> wealth is in the hands that unground the oil, not in the oil. it's just a commodity.
[14:08:58] <MrBluze> .. well, i define wealth as "the amount of time you can survive without working"
[14:09:04] <michealpwalls> Also China, however that's subjective IMHO. You can find Billionaires in china and also people starving to death. So it's kind of subjective to say "China is wealthy" hehe
[14:09:22] <michealpwalls> But we cant ignore the wealth being created/shifted to China and the Middle East right now? :/
[14:09:23] <crutchy> wealth depends a lot on supply and demand
[14:09:27] <MrBluze> rich is measured in assets
[14:09:35] <MrBluze> wealth is a system
[14:09:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> MrBluze, not a bad definition but wealth is also measured in things like having a car that saves you tons of walking.
[14:09:46] <crutchy> if there is a lot of demand for something you can supply, you can make a lot of money
[14:09:57] <michealpwalls> Yes ^
[14:10:00] <MrBluze> TheMightyBuzzard: yes, and that's part of the system
[14:10:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> like a car that saves you walking produced by someone else increases your wealth
[14:10:21] <michealpwalls> Dubai has used Commodities to attain a lot of wealth and significance. China seems to use currency manipulation and suppression of human rights...
[14:10:28] <michealpwalls> Which is what frustrates me, but meh. Different story ^
[14:10:36] <MrBluze> .. if you can source your food for nothing, your energy for nothing, your protection for nothing and you can travel for free, you are wealthy even if u have no money
[14:10:56] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: that is probably more 'quality of life' than wealth - the car/walking thing
[14:10:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> MrBluze, i am not that zen
[14:11:10] <MrBluze> its not zen
[14:11:12] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: Not in my society, sir :/
[14:11:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, not if you live 10 miles from work.
[14:11:14] <MrBluze> is survivalism ;)
[14:11:36] <MrBluze> but i mean, if you somehow have the money flowing in.. it's basically for nothing - if u dont work for it
[14:11:39] <crutchy> car is not essential
[14:11:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's hours added to your life that you can be productive or not as you choose in.
[14:11:42] <michealpwalls> You cannot get / go anywhere in my society without money :/
[14:12:01] <crutchy> folks in africa walk for hours to get somewhere
[14:12:12] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: u need money, but if you can get the money for nothing (ie: royalty payments or whatever) then u are set
[14:12:20] <michealpwalls> Oh!
[14:12:36] <michealpwalls> I misunderstood your point, then haha. You're right... I think that's essentially the British Monarchy, yes?
[14:12:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> folks in africa starve too because they don't know economic policy from their ass.
[14:12:43] <michealpwalls> And Paris Hilton, etc.. God they make me sick.
[14:12:45] <MrBluze> yep
[14:12:54] <MrBluze> but that's wealth
[14:13:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, why? they're just idiots.
[14:13:01] <michealpwalls> Paris Hilton, Justin Beiber. This is what's wrong with our society :)
[14:13:08] <michealpwalls> Nothing more, nothing less.
[14:13:15] <michealpwalls> Maybe not Beiber...
[14:13:16] <crutchy> we are all a function of our environment and upbringing
[14:13:33] <michealpwalls> But def. the Paris Hiltons. Being born into wealth dynasties is bad for socioeconomic development....
[14:13:40] <michealpwalls> Not just bad, fucking antithesis...
[14:13:45] <MrBluze> .. but the majority is suffering due to a minority
[14:13:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, that would make us animals and we should be chained like such.
[14:13:58] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: we are
[14:14:01] <crutchy> both
[14:14:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> i choose to be a rational being who is more than the sum of his raising and environment.
[14:14:15] <michealpwalls> ^
[14:14:19] <michealpwalls> I agree 100%
[14:14:26] <crutchy> we all try
[14:14:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> not really. look around.
[14:14:42] <michealpwalls> If what crutchy (Not to single you out, that's a very popular opinion....) was true, I would be some "bad", "miscreant"...
[14:14:42] <crutchy> but we are chained by the things we value
[14:14:49] <michealpwalls> As I was born in a straight up ghetto :)
[14:14:51] <crutchy> and we are animals with basic survival needs
[14:14:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> how many in the prison system are especially rational?
[14:15:01] <michealpwalls> I chose *not* to let that environment influence my path..
[14:15:07] <michealpwalls> And went to college instead of jail, etc. LOL
[14:15:45] <crutchy> michealpwalls: what would make you a bad miscreant?
[14:15:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean, FFS, people watching reality TV... there's no argument for intelligence there.
[14:15:57] <michealpwalls> crutchy: The environment I was raised in.
[14:16:07] <michealpwalls> haha TheMightyBuzzard.
[14:16:13] <MrBluze> hmm.. so the question is, is the government losign the information war?
[14:16:19] <crutchy> without that environment do you think you would/could be who you are today?
[14:16:24] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: I think so. Look at RT ("Russia Today")
[14:16:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, by my environment i should be a dirt poor redneck who's in jail for cooking meth.
[14:16:44] <michealpwalls> And fucking Fox News with their *constant* anti-government bullshit.. Spreading Libertarian horseshit to the ignorance masses.
[14:16:46] <michealpwalls> It's totaly out of control!
[14:16:49] <MrBluze> yeah RT is kicking ass
[14:16:56] <chromas> Hey, what's so bad about watching people dig through trash and selling it to each other?
[14:17:06] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: Fox News is disinformation 100%
[14:17:06] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Well, no, but I must look at the others... Let me explain
[14:17:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, dude, you haven't quite figured out FNC yet.
[14:17:17] <MrBluze> the government needs its anti-government channel
[14:17:24] <chromas> Or having them bring their own trash
[14:17:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> FNC are about controversy. they're shock jocks. they'll sell any party down the river for ratings.
[14:17:43] <michealpwalls> crutchy: So, in the apartment complex there's 4 large government-owned "public housing" apartment buildings. Population far exceeds ~2,000 low/no income families
[14:18:00] <michealpwalls> crutchy: In the morning.. I am 1 of about 5 people heading off to school. The rest go nowhere in the morning.
[14:18:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> they default to conservative because there is a lack of a voice for them on TV but they have no loyalty to the ideals.
[14:18:16] <MrBluze> ... governments all have their propaganda ministry - which also is responsible for producing anti-government propaganda.
[14:18:21] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Mostly, th "role models" are the gang bangers, drug dealers and pimps. They drive nice cars and have money to spend. That is the environment I was raised in...
[14:18:28] <MrBluze> but if u produce an anti-government propaganda that differs from the ministry's u are stuffed
[14:18:30] <crutchy> i like the ideals of freedom and liberty
[14:18:36] <michealpwalls> However, like the 4 people tha tgo to school with me in the morning, I chose *not* to let it dictate my future.
[14:18:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> me, i'm as anti-government as it gets though.
[14:18:43] <michealpwalls> I choose another path
[14:18:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> at least this government.
[14:19:16] <crutchy> but without your environment, what would motivate you to follow a different path?
[14:19:34] <michealpwalls> crutchy: hehe, I suppose you make an interesting point :/
[14:19:43] <michealpwalls> *good* role models?
[14:19:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, many, many things. vision for starters. inspiration does happen.
[14:20:05] <michealpwalls> I think, that's my argument in a nutshell. In these apartment complexes, there's no good role models to look up to :/
[14:20:07] <crutchy> it does, but environment affects our decisions/motivations/etc
[14:20:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> it can even happen in a vacuum, though from cultural bits and pieces is more common.
[14:20:23] <michealpwalls> So it's extremely hard to choose any different path. I don't *know* what caused me to choose the path I chose
[14:20:26] <michealpwalls> Maybe movies? Books?
[14:20:28] <MrBluze> crutchy: fatalism?
[14:20:33] <michealpwalls> Like Rocky!
[14:20:37] <michealpwalls> *hifive*
[14:20:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> fuck-this-ism?
[14:20:51] <crutchy> take impoverished folks in africa
[14:20:55] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: quoting Rocky proves crutchy's point
[14:20:57] <crutchy> they didn't choose to be poor
[14:21:01] <michealpwalls> LMAO MrBluze
[14:21:01] <crutchy> they were born into it
[14:21:07] <michealpwalls> Yes ^
[14:21:19] <crutchy> but the ones who get out of it do so because of their experience in it
[14:21:24] <MrBluze> ... europe was born into poverty, crutchy
[14:21:32] <michealpwalls> Africa is not a good example in that the entire nation's infrastructure does not exist to facilitate independent wealth creation. No education and etc. :/
[14:21:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> more like despite
[14:21:35] <MrBluze> but europe got out of it with ideas
[14:21:41] <crutchy> but also with limitations imposed by their environment
[14:21:51] <michealpwalls> I don't know much to really say, crutchy :/
[14:21:54] <MrBluze> monestaries and so on which developed industry out of the dark ages
[14:22:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> human contrariness should never be underestimated.
[14:22:06] <michealpwalls> I'm not sure we can apply that to north america, though. It's *so* different :/
[14:22:17] <crutchy> it is different
[14:22:31] <crutchy> its a different environment
[14:22:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> is not. most of the chuckleheads here have no more vision or drive than they do in africa.
[14:22:44] <crutchy> which leads to difference in culture, values, etc
[14:22:45] <MrBluze> .. crutchy, africa has not had a civilization in living memory
[14:22:54] <crutchy> egypt?
[14:22:55] <michealpwalls> Largely, people *choose* to be poor in North America, at least to live a life of poverty. I was born into a poor family, however I choose to work to change that and it is changing :/
[14:23:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> they're wage slaves that'd be herding cattle in africa.
[14:23:05] <MrBluze> south of egypt
[14:23:10] <michealpwalls> However, like you say, in Africa it's not a choice at all :/
[14:23:15] <crutchy> it could be argued that americans are wage slaves
[14:23:21] <crutchy> or welfare slaves
[14:23:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> is a bad term but you get my point
[14:23:33] <MrBluze> the point being that africa does not have the deposit of ideas to save it
[14:23:36] <michealpwalls> In fact perhaps nothing you choose can change your status in parts of Africa
[14:23:46] <michealpwalls> crutchy: No, it is argued by I think it's entirely false...
[14:23:49] <MrBluze> europe had the residual effects of the roman empire and christianity to get it on its feet
[14:23:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> save it? ideas are free.
[14:24:03] <michealpwalls> The argument that we are 'wage slaves' that is just completely false in my opinion.. *and* insulting to *real* slaves in th world :/
[14:24:04] <MrBluze> TheMightyBuzzard: the ideas have to be in people's hearts .. not in a book
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[14:24:15] <crutchy> africans are limited by their environment... lack of information, education, etc
[14:24:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> MrBluze, ideas can be implemented by one man with vision.
[14:24:23] <michealpwalls> If you equate what goes on in North America to slavery, I think you do a major dis-service to real slaves around the world.
[14:24:28] <MrBluze> crutchy: africa is not limited by resources
[14:24:30] <MrBluze> or intellect
[14:24:30] <crutchy> but americans are also limited by biases in their information
[14:24:38] <crutchy> not intellect
[14:24:47] <crutchy> africans are as smart as anyone else
[14:24:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, pretty much but i don't have a better term.
[14:24:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> guess i could call them mindless drones
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[14:25:06] <crutchy> they are limited by access to technology though
[14:25:08] <michealpwalls> crutchy: I see your comparison, however I fundamentally disagree on the basis of semantics. A Slave *cannot* stop being a slave, except death. This is absolutely not true in North America..
[14:25:24] <crutchy> what makes a slave a slave?
[14:25:26] <michealpwalls> We *can* move up..
[14:25:33] <michealpwalls> We have to only choose to and work at it.
[14:25:40] <michealpwalls> However, a Slave *cannot*... They are a slave.
[14:25:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, taking the fruits of his forced labor for yourself
[14:25:43] <crutchy> africans cant?
[14:26:07] <michealpwalls> crutchy: I am only fundamentally disagreeing with th use of th term Slave. I think it does a major dis-service to slave victims of the world...
[14:26:08] <MrBluze> crutchy: very true, africa is not allowed to have hi tech factories for some reason
[14:26:11] <michealpwalls> There are no slaves in North America.
[14:26:17] <crutchy> whole countries in africa have risen to overcome tyrannical governments
[14:26:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, 100% taken = slave, what does 50% equal?
[14:26:23] <crutchy> that is quite an achievement
[14:26:41] <crutchy> it is also an achievement yet to occur in america
[14:26:47] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Yes and millions of people have been exterminated, as well. See Congo, Rwanda, Uganda and Somalia for on-going examples.
[14:27:00] <crutchy> true
[14:27:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> at what percentage of taking the fruits of our labor do we cease to be slaves?
[14:27:11] <crutchy> thousands of americans also die in pointless wars
[14:27:14] <crutchy> were they slaves?
[14:27:28] <michealpwalls> The Great Lakes region of Central Africa. *millions* of people butchered for comodities. Pushed from their lang by force, raped into submission. This is not slavery?
[14:27:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, they were volunteers
[14:27:39] <michealpwalls> 'cause to me, *that* is slavery and *that* does not happen in North America.
[14:27:52] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: so they chose to die?
[14:27:58] <MrBluze> slave != must be hungry
[14:28:02] <MrBluze> slave == not free
[14:28:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, can't speak for all of them but i did
[14:28:03] <michealpwalls> ^ thank you
[14:28:21] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: you chose to die?
[14:28:31] <michealpwalls> North Americans are Free... That some North Americans *choose* to be hungry... That they *choose* to have no job.. That they *choose* to live on the side-walks. That is not slavery, no sir.
[14:28:37] <MrBluze> if you are bound to a company (because not working for it == poverty and death), and your company is owned by shareholders, the share holders are slave-owners
[14:28:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, if necessary, yes. proved not to be while I was enlisted.
[14:28:42] <michealpwalls> That is a choice made by a free man...
[14:28:55] <michealpwalls> A very ignorant and defeated free man, but a free man nonetheless.
[14:29:10] <MrBluze> .. slaves can be well treated, or poorly .. it might be good to be a slave in some situations
[14:29:13] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: Unbeleivably wrong. You are free to leave that company.
[14:29:16] <michealpwalls> Go find another job.
[14:29:25] <MrBluze> not all jobs are like that
[14:29:31] <michealpwalls> Yes they are, in North America they are.
[14:29:36] <michealpwalls> You are free to leave any job you want.
[14:29:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> ^
[14:29:45] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: many people around the world think americans are slaves to their government and have very little freedom, especially those that depend on government handouts
[14:29:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, i tend to agree.
[14:30:02] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Yes and over 600 million people around the world cannot read or write.
[14:30:06] <crutchy> its basically poverty by any other name
[14:30:08] <michealpwalls> crutchy: That does not make their popular opinion right...
[14:30:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> but their slavery chains are self made
[14:30:14] <michealpwalls> It simply makes them a large group of ignorant people.
[14:30:14] <michealpwalls> :)
[14:30:21] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: i disagree
[14:30:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> we have the 2nd, it breaks chains whenever enough of us decide they are unbearable.
[14:30:31] <crutchy> nobody chooses to live in slavery
[14:30:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, dude, you are so wrong on that.
[14:31:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> every socialist chooses to live in slavery and even to forward it for others.
[14:31:18] <michealpwalls> ^
[14:31:21] <michealpwalls> I agree.
[14:31:25] <crutchy> they don't think of it that way though obviously
[14:31:29] <crutchy> they think they are free
[14:31:37] <crutchy> btw i'm no socialist
[14:31:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> gold chains are chains nontheless
[14:31:41] <MrBluze> crutchy: u're right
[14:31:42] <michealpwalls> They were free when they chose Socialism? :P
[14:31:45] <michealpwalls> hehehe
[14:31:54] <MrBluze> it's not a prison until you try the door..
[14:32:00] <crutchy> socialism isn't something u choose
[14:32:00] <michealpwalls> As free men, they chose to be slaves? I'm being silly now, forgive me :P
[14:32:10] <MrBluze> socialism and capitalism end up the same
[14:32:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, yeah. freedom means the ability to even choose slavery.
[14:32:14] <michealpwalls> ^
[14:32:17] <michealpwalls> I *totaly* agree with that
[14:32:22] <michealpwalls> I have seen it with my own eyes, guys!
[14:32:23] <michealpwalls> Seriously!
[14:32:38] <crutchy> how does one choose slavery?
[14:32:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> MrBluze, relook
[14:32:49] <MrBluze> relook?
[14:32:50] <michealpwalls> People fucking *choose* to rob a liquor store for $$... They *chose* that prison sentence.. The *chose* that life-long record that limits their job and educational opportunities.
[14:32:53] <michealpwalls> It is a *choice*, guys...
[14:32:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, by giving away freedoms in the name of security.
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[14:33:13] <crutchy> isn't that the same as in africa though?
[14:33:20] <michealpwalls> I have watched people *choose* to sleep on the side-walk because the homeless shelters will not admit you if you smell like alchohol or your eyes are dilated (Spelling?)
[14:33:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> every power given to the government or other entity necessitates a loss of freedom.
[14:33:31] <michealpwalls> That is a *choice* they made... I have witnessed it with my own eyes.
[14:33:37] <crutchy> america seems to be turning into africa
[14:33:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, ya, i did that. i like my booze.
[14:33:56] <michealpwalls> I have done it once, too..
[14:33:58] <michealpwalls> Don't get me wrong :)
[14:34:03] <michealpwalls> Slept in the park LMAO
[14:34:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> course i wouldn't have done it in winter...
[14:34:15] <michealpwalls> However, I still got up and went to work at McDonald's in the morning...
[14:34:16] <crutchy> nobody chooses to sleep on the sidewalk
[14:34:21] <michealpwalls> Cleaned myself up at the public library.
[14:34:25] <michealpwalls> That is north amerca, people..
[14:34:25] <crutchy> they sleep there for lack of other choices
[14:34:28] <michealpwalls> That is *not* slavery.
[14:34:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, fuck no. i chose to sleep in the woods. nice soft leaves.
[14:34:35] <michealpwalls> That' sbullshit, crutchy.
[14:34:39] <MrBluze> yeah, i guess in the USSR people *choose* to criticize stalin and spend 10 years in a labour camp
[14:34:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> sidewalk's hard
[14:34:50] <crutchy> nobody chooses misfortune
[14:34:52] <MrBluze> and they *choose* not to join the communist party so they don't get to go to university
[14:34:56] <crutchy> they make mistakes and they pay for them
[14:35:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, nobody chooses fate period.
[14:35:06] <michealpwalls> crutchy: I don't mean to be rude, but I have been homeless. I have seen it with my own eyes. People that choose to sleep on the sidewalks are making a choice due to addictive substance abuse or mental illness.
[14:35:14] <michealpwalls> crutchy: They *do* have options, in north america...
[14:35:15] <crutchy> but they don't choose to make mistakes and they certainly don't choose to pay for them
[14:35:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> you take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have the facts of life, the facts of life
[14:35:26] <michealpwalls> Salvation Amry... Churches... Government "Out Of the Cold" programmes...
[14:35:31] <michealpwalls> There are many, many choices.
[14:35:38] <crutchy> only if you know them
[14:35:47] <MrBluze> the kids who got shagged in the Salvation Army didnt choose that
[14:35:48] <michealpwalls> crutchy: You can't be homeless and not know them, good sir :)
[14:35:50] <michealpwalls> Trust me.
[14:36:00] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Once the sun starts going down, you find out real fucking fast :)
[14:36:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> MrBluze, shit luck is part of life, yo.
[14:36:25] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: That's false. The Salvation Army does not admit people under th age of 21 :)
[14:36:27] <crutchy> perhaps our definition of 'choice' differs
[14:36:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> everyone has some, you're not entitled to special consideration for it.
[14:36:43] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: it does in its orphanages
[14:36:50] <MrBluze> or did
[14:36:53] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: In my case, I had to lie to them. I convinced them that I had my wallet stolen, and simply could not prove my age. Otherwise you wouldnt' be admitted to a Salvation Army homeless shelter.
[14:36:56] <crutchy> who chooses to be homeless?
[14:37:06] <MrBluze> crutchy: thats the dominican vs jesuit argument
[14:37:09] <MrBluze> what is choice
[14:37:24] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: that was probably the adult shelter
[14:37:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, i did. well shit luck and me being unwilling to keep working where i was getting ass fucked did.
[14:37:30] <michealpwalls> I hope I"m not being offensive, guys. It's a passionate subject, though :/
[14:37:55] <crutchy> i doubt it
[14:38:06] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: There is only an adult shelter in my city (A large Ontario city). The other options for youth (As I was) are churches, such as the "Youth Haven" church..
[14:38:17] <MrBluze> well ok
[14:38:17] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: lots of people work shit jobs
[14:38:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> i got shorted several weeks pay, quit, pissed away my savings, and was homeless until i got myself another job detailing cars at a car lot.
[14:38:23] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: The point, though.. Is *none* of those shelters will admit somebody who is intoxicated...
[14:38:24] <crutchy> shit jobs are still better than homeless
[14:38:36] <crutchy> nobody chooses to be homelless
[14:38:40] <michealpwalls> They are trained professionals.. That is their job to assess people at th door.. To protect those in the shelter already
[14:38:47] <michealpwalls> If you are intoxiated, you sleep on the street..
[14:38:49] <crutchy> thats just bs
[14:38:49] <MrBluze> shit job = in a chinese factory at foxconn
[14:38:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, never go with an absolute there.
[14:38:56] <michealpwalls> That's not bs crutchy...
[14:38:57] <MrBluze> people suicide there
[14:39:04] <michealpwalls> I am telling you cold hard facts from my own life experience :/
[14:39:13] <michealpwalls> Canada.
[14:39:47] <crutchy> so you are a fucntion of your environment and upbringing :-P
[14:39:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> see above. i chose the actions that lead to being homeless, thus i chose homelessness.
[14:39:57] <michealpwalls> I dropped out of high school at the age of 15. A choice. My mother told me to go back to school, or get out and get a job. I chose to stick to my guns and she kicked me out.
[14:40:04] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: but not deliberately
[14:40:09] <crutchy> you made mistakes, sure
[14:40:09] <michealpwalls> I hitch-hiked to the "big city" 'cause, you know, that was the "smart" thing to do. That was a choice.
[14:40:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, out of foolishness but the responsibility was mine.
[14:40:22] <michealpwalls> It's all a series of choices, you're right.
[14:40:26] <crutchy> you didn't "choose to be homeless" though
[14:40:28] <michealpwalls> That is my point, though, crutchy...
[14:40:30] <michealpwalls> I did.
[14:40:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, yes. i did.
[14:40:44] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: no you didn't
[14:40:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> unless some magic fairy can absolve me of responsibility for my choices and give it to someone else.
[14:41:01] <michealpwalls> I then chose to get a job and save all my money while sleeping in homeless shelters. While doing so, I seen people choose to SPEND their money on alcohol and drugs to party...
[14:41:05] <crutchy> you made a series of choices that lead to that conclusion
[14:41:11] <michealpwalls> Thos epeople were not allowed to stay in the shelters.
[14:41:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> and?
[14:41:32] <crutchy> if you had your time again would you make the same choices?
[14:41:37] <michealpwalls> No
[14:41:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> probably. it was kind of fun.
[14:41:46] <michealpwalls> I woul dhave stayed in school and stayed with my mother...
[14:41:48] <crutchy> so obviously you didn't choose the end result
[14:41:55] <michealpwalls> I wouldnt' be 29 years old and still in College :(
[14:42:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, nah. you don't get out of the responsibility due to stupid.
[14:42:23] <MrBluze> crutchy: do people have any free will?
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[14:42:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> you touch a hot stove on purpose and you get burned it is entirely your fault
[14:42:50] <michealpwalls> crutchy: I agree with what you said about Africa in in fact what MrBluze said about China (Workers commiting suicide) however, the point I'm making (And I think TheMightyBuzzard,) is that here in North America..
[14:42:52] <michealpwalls> It's totaly different.
[14:42:54] <crutchy> everyone is responsible for their actions, but people in africa are as afffected by their own mistakes/misjudgements/etc
[14:43:04] <michealpwalls> Mostly, we *choose* our lives here.. We are free to change the life, too.
[14:43:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, mostly but a lot of that choice is becoming illusion quicker than i'd like.
[14:43:35] <MrBluze> crutchy: africans didnt choose to be colonized by europe
[14:43:46] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: That I can see, yea. I'm close to giving up on voting, myself :/
[14:43:49] <crutchy> MrBluze: exactly
[14:44:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> MrBluze, no, but they did choose slavery.
[14:44:10] <MrBluze> i gave up on voting for the name of this site
[14:44:16] <michealpwalls> LOL MrBluze
[14:44:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, Nero it. fiddle while rome burns. vote for the worst candidate.
[14:44:33] <crutchy> i don't give much of a crap about the site name
[14:44:39] <MrBluze> they did choose slavery? how?
[14:44:43] <crutchy> i doubt i'll talk about it offfline much anyway
[14:44:55] <michealpwalls> LMAO TheMightyBuzzard that's about where I am as said as it is to say. I'd vote a fucking Horse into the government at this point, just for the lulz :)
[14:44:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> MrBluze, not make them kill you.
[14:44:58] <michealpwalls> Nero style! (flex)
[14:45:21] <MrBluze> oh
[14:45:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, i voted obama both times for that reason. worked out better than i ever expected.
[14:45:39] <michealpwalls> crutchy: hehe, good convo btw. I never get to talk socioeconomics outside the internet... People get too fucking uptight about it and it nearl yturns into a fist-fight here :/
[14:45:45] <michealpwalls> When you talk about poverty, etc.
[14:45:54] <crutchy> lol
[14:46:10] <crutchy> i'm a ron paul fan, just to give some perspective
[14:46:18] <michealpwalls> Oh my goodness :O
[14:46:20] <crutchy> libertarianismm alll the way man
[14:46:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> MrBluze, big fan of Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death.
[14:46:29] <crutchy> fuckk socialism up the arse
[14:46:31] <michealpwalls> I am completely against Libertarianism...
[14:46:35] <MrBluze> oh
[14:46:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, part of that means accepting responsibility for what you do with your liberty though.
[14:46:44] <crutchy> michealpwalls: that';s ok
[14:46:51] <crutchy> yes
[14:46:57] <michealpwalls> I think it's really dreamy, like Communism (No offense, hehe)
[14:46:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> for the consequences of your choices.
[14:47:21] <MrBluze> didnt u know that liberty, fraternity and equality are mutually exclusive?
[14:47:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, it is. it requires a benevolent dictator. possible but historically unlikely.
[14:47:36] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: its always funny to see people react to ron paul's stance on government healthcare
[14:47:41] <michealpwalls> Libertarianism isn't new to American history. That's why this Ron Paul kick really blows my mind. Are you big on American history, crutchy?
[14:47:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> MrBluze, are not. equality of not getting fucked with rather than outcome.
[14:47:58] <crutchy> i know a little
[14:48:13] <crutchy> america was born of libertariansim
[14:48:20] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Well, the early American Republic was very much a Libertarian society..
[14:48:25] <crutchy> yes
[14:48:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, i can't listen to the guy. it's like listening to hannity if you're a conservative.
[14:48:29] <MrBluze> u cant be free, and equal and friends at the same time .. at least not for longer than 10 minutes
[14:48:40] <michealpwalls> crutchy: That is what led to Slavery, the Pinkertons driving farmers from their land for the Railroad company and the Oil conglomerates...
[14:48:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> hate having an idiot represent what i love.
[14:48:46] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: dunno i don't watch hannity
[14:48:54] <michealpwalls> crutchy: That led to whole familes being wiped out in feuds...
[14:49:02] <michealpwalls> crutchy: It was *anything* but the "golden age" Ron Paul talks about, sir..
[14:49:08] <michealpwalls> It was a fucking brutal, brutal page of human history.
[14:49:24] <crutchy> i doubt that was a product of liberty and freedom though
[14:49:28] <michealpwalls> Eventually, it led to the Civil War...
[14:49:34] <michealpwalls> Which put power into a central government..
[14:49:45] <michealpwalls> A central army and federal police agencies... Neutering the Pinkertons.
[14:49:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, no, it was. freedom is nothing unless you're free to be a complete fuckwad.
[14:50:06] <michealpwalls> crutchy: You see.. Ameria *evolved* AWAY from Libertarian into Republican Democracy. Why would you *ever* want to go back?
[14:50:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> logic chain:
[14:50:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> if you're not free to be an asshole, someone will eventually call you one and limit your freedom.
[14:50:58] <michealpwalls> LOL
[14:51:08] <crutchy> what is 'republican democracy'?
[14:51:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> it could be for anything
[14:51:21] <crutchy> sounds like republocrats
[14:51:23] <MrBluze> "free prisons"
[14:51:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> like, say smoking outdoors
[14:51:36] <michealpwalls> crutchy: In short? Short Term, Elected Central Authority
[14:51:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> or drinking
[14:51:43] <MrBluze> "safe cliffjumping"
[14:51:43] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Think George W. Bush when nobody liked him.
[14:51:55] <michealpwalls> He was still the President.. He still did what he was voted into power to do. That's central authority.
[14:51:56] <crutchy> michealpwalls: that has nothing to do with political ideals... that's more just procedure
[14:52:04] <michealpwalls> However once his term was up, his time was up (Short Term)
[14:52:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> i always liked him, just didn't care for his choices as president.
[14:52:21] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Libertarian would have no Central Authority...
[14:52:27] <crutchy> yes it would
[14:52:33] <michealpwalls> crutchy: No "Commander 'n Cheif" of a central armed forces..
[14:52:38] <crutchy> lol
[14:52:48] <crutchy> you haven't listened to much of ron paul i'm guessing
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[14:53:00] <michealpwalls> Yes I have, I have also read a lot of American History, crutchy..
[14:53:06] <michealpwalls> I side with history..
[14:53:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, it's a given we're not talking pure libertarianism cause that's just another word for anarchy which cannot exist for long.
[14:53:08] <michealpwalls> Not some smooth-talker.
[14:53:13] <crutchy> ron paul isn';t anti government
[14:53:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, he should be. it's way too damn big and invasive.
[14:53:38] <michealpwalls> He clearly is... When you talk abotu taking away federal police and central authority, you *are* anti government by sheer logic crutchy..
[14:53:43] <crutchy> no hes not
[14:53:51] <crutchy> not at all
[14:53:56] <michealpwalls> If your government has no central police and no monopoly over force, what the hel do you have?
[14:54:00] <michealpwalls> Except for the U.N? :)
[14:54:05] <crutchy> he does want to abolishh government agenciees
[14:54:09] <crutchy> but not all of them
[14:54:17] <michealpwalls> Just the ones that give the government purpose?
[14:54:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm about 10-15 years from handing out ar15s to my friends n family because they're going to need them soon.
[14:54:19] <michealpwalls> And power?
[14:54:25] <crutchy> no
[14:54:42] <crutchy> lol i think this is part of the problem that america is facing
[14:54:50] <michealpwalls> Look on paper what he talks about.. Imagine a U.S without any of it.. Then imagine a private security firm, like Blackwater, rise. What will regulate them? Seriously?
[14:55:03] <michealpwalls> In your Libertarian Ron Paul America, what would stop private security from doing whatever the ywanted?
[14:55:05] <crutchy> lol ron paul is nothing like what you are saying
[14:55:09] <MrBluze> america is facing the problem that so much of its executive power is in the hands of private companies that the democracy is becomign a bit of a joke
[14:55:16] <crutchy> stop watching fox and cnn
[14:55:34] <michealpwalls> Forget about challenging my knowledge, just play my hypothetical game :)
[14:55:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, this is where Emperor TheMightyBuzzard I comes in. I swear pon my left nad that your freedoms will be protected except in cases where it infringes upon the freedom or wellbeing of others directly.
[14:55:40] <crutchy> MrBluze: true, but companies get their power from government
[14:55:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> directly, not through convoluted logic.
[14:56:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> if you gotta splain it, i call bullshit.
[14:56:13] <michealpwalls> crutchy: That's such a load of crock... Did Standard Oil get their power through government? Did the Pinkertons?
[14:56:15] <crutchy> they buy power that is available for sale to the highest bidder
[14:56:20] <crutchy> yes
[14:56:25] <michealpwalls> Oh? How so?
[14:56:35] <crutchy> permits
[14:56:46] <michealpwalls> There was no authority... There was *no* regulation...
[14:56:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, no they didn't yo. there were no permits because there were no laws requiring them.
[14:56:54] <michealpwalls> So they needed not obtain any permits to do what they did..
[14:57:07] <michealpwalls> It was the Libertarian Golden Age, don't you know?
[14:57:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> permits came after
[14:57:24] <michealpwalls> There was NO government regulation... NO centralized authority.
[14:57:30] <MrBluze> today, if goldman sachs breaks the rules, congress changes laws so that in retrospect it followed them
[14:57:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, actually no. that woulda been 1776-1800
[14:57:39] <MrBluze> wag the dog
[14:58:10] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: It was more state-run than central right up until the conclusion of the Civil War, though?
[14:58:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, exactly
[14:58:32] <michealpwalls> There wasn't a strong, centralized federal government that could control large companies like Standard Oil
[14:58:40] <michealpwalls> And the Pinkertons, when they would literally kill senators.
[14:58:46] <michealpwalls> Who didn't agree with the company policies
[14:58:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> but they didn't exist then either
[14:59:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> you don't give power that isn't immediately necessary
[14:59:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> because you will NEVER get it back.
[14:59:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> patriot act for instance.
[14:59:51] <michealpwalls> Well, Plato wrote the book "Republic" about that very subject. Nothing is good.. All forms of government are really quite poor..
[15:00:00] <michealpwalls> The best we can possibyl get is a Republic that we constantly watch..
[15:00:07] <michealpwalls> Constant Vigilance, or whatever he said :)
[15:00:12] <crutchy> now you have one that watches you
[15:00:18] <michealpwalls> Touche :/
[15:00:19] <michealpwalls> LOL!
[15:00:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> who the shit is attacking us lately? nobody. and even when they were you were more likely to get hit by lightning or win the lottery than know someone killed.
[15:00:23] <MrBluze> inded crutchy
[15:00:31] <michealpwalls> LOL TheMightyBuzzard the Terrorists! :)
[15:00:38] <MrBluze> good government is small and decentralised
[15:00:48] <MrBluze> then it is watchable
[15:00:53] <michealpwalls> But that's powerless, too ^
[15:00:54] <michealpwalls> :/
[15:00:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, thas a fucked up word. we're a nation born of terrorists.
[15:01:00] <crutchy> i think a central government is important for national defense
[15:01:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> asymetric warfare is in our genes
[15:01:08] <michealpwalls> LMAO TheMightyBuzzard you so are heehehehehe
[15:01:18] <MrBluze> crutchy: centralised defense is useful
[15:01:28] <crutchy> but national defense and the military industrial complex are different
[15:01:36] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: The American Patriots fought a fucking *textbook* asymmetric war against the Empire :D
[15:01:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> i have no issue with their choice of methods, only with them being the enemy.
[15:01:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> zactly
[15:02:03] <michealpwalls> textbook hehehe
[15:02:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> being the enemy is plenty of reason to kill them to death. don't need a boogieman word to call them.
[15:02:28] <michealpwalls> Only thing effective against the Patriots were European mercenaries, which the Empire's generals werent' allowed to (publicly :P) use
[15:02:33] <michealpwalls> Such as Hessan infantry
[15:02:38] <crutchy> i was trying to find some stuff by milton friedman about monopolies
[15:02:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, they were pretty tough
[15:02:44] <michealpwalls> Think about that for a second, gents :)
[15:02:55] <michealpwalls> hehehe
[15:02:55] <crutchy> there have been a couple non-government assisted monopolies
[15:03:04] <crutchy> but they are extremely rare throughout history
[15:03:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> nothing wrong with a monopoly in certain circumstances. those being it being an organically created one and not government sponsored and competition protected if it decides to appear.
[15:03:41] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[15:03:48] <crutchy> i'm sure if you went through standard oil's history, you would find government collusion
[15:03:59] <michealpwalls> I think... We have serious problems in our system. That is certainly true. *however* I think it would be a grave, grave mistake if we *abandon* our system for something inferior from the past :/
[15:04:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, eh, a little but mostly dude was just a ruthless fucker with no rules he had to follow.
[15:04:13] <MrBluze> grave mistake?
[15:04:21] <crutchy> libertarianism is what turned america into a superpower
[15:04:29] <MrBluze> get rid of secrecy, and everything improves
[15:04:45] <michealpwalls> I think that would be such a travesty. Very much like Rome's decline led to the Dark Ages for 2 thousand years.
[15:04:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> get rid of motherfuckers who write laws for my own good and everything mproves.
[15:04:54] <michealpwalls> I think, that is what destroying th American Republic would do..
[15:04:55] <MrBluze> flush out the secret agreements between government and private sector, and between left and right in politics
[15:04:57] <michealpwalls> Another Dark Age.
[15:05:17] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: You wouldn't.. Yo uwould only take away the only thing that even TRIES to control them..
[15:05:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, hope so, i already got swords.
[15:05:24] <michealpwalls> And give *all* the power into the hands of those shadowy groups.
[15:05:31] <michealpwalls> Think about it from a strategy point of view, man.
[15:05:35] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: they already have all the power
[15:05:40] <crutchy> michealpwalls: you just need someone in office that won't spend money left right and everywhere
[15:05:43] <michealpwalls> You're doing *exactly* what would benefit the very groups you fear....
[15:05:46] <MrBluze> the voting thing is a charade
[15:05:55] <crutchy> then corps won't go lobbying for it
[15:06:06] <MrBluze> ron paul has not a hope in the US
[15:06:13] <crutchy> MrBluze: you're right
[15:06:16] <MrBluze> unless he bends over and drops his shorts
[15:06:26] <michealpwalls> I think Ron Paul is corporate governance wrapped in a velvet glove...
[15:06:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> MrBluze, doesn't have to be, perot very nearly had potus.
[15:06:29] <crutchy> too many enemies with vested interest in status quo
[15:06:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> just takes a fuckload of monetary backing
[15:06:43] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: he is, thats why he's allowed to talk at all
[15:06:45] <crutchy> michealpwalls: he's not
[15:06:54] <michealpwalls> That's all he is. A fucking douchebag. He's the guy from that movie "There Will Be Blood"
[15:06:59] <crutchy> he would have slowed down the spending
[15:07:06] <michealpwalls> <ron_paul> I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE. ALL OF IT. I DRINK IT UP!
[15:07:07] <michealpwalls> :)
[15:07:07] <crutchy> by veto if necessary
[15:07:16] <MrBluze> crutchy: he is playing to the tune of a different financial interest group
[15:07:17] <MrBluze> that is all
[15:07:38] <MrBluze> but that group is no different from the current one in its fundamental aims
[15:07:53] <crutchy> everyone has interests, but ron paul shared more interests in common with the american taxpayer who foots the bills
[15:08:03] <michealpwalls> That's his message ^
[15:08:06] <MrBluze> ... statecraft involves managing the opposition to yourself
[15:08:08] <michealpwalls> But I don't buy his message...
[15:08:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> ron is a child playing with a gun. no real understanding of what he has in his hands.
[15:08:21] <michealpwalls> I think it's very thin, lacks substance and flies in the face of historical precidence..
[15:08:23] <michealpwalls> :/
[15:08:33] <crutchy> michealpwalls, TheMightyBuzzard: that's what fox and cnn wanted you to believe
[15:08:41] <crutchy> very badly
[15:08:46] <crutchy> and they won in the end
[15:08:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, no that's what listening to him has made be believe. i don't watch tv news.
[15:08:58] <michealpwalls> ^
[15:09:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> haven't in about a decade.
[15:09:01] <MrBluze> crutchy: ron paul is like the neo-nazis ... they are both useful idiots
[15:09:13] <michealpwalls> I dont' watch either U.S news, crutchy. I'm Canadian, remember? I based my view purely on Ron Paul videos on YouTube.
[15:09:19] <crutchy> lol i guess everyone has their opinion, like me
[15:09:19] <michealpwalls> Reading and listenign to *his* Speeches dude..
[15:09:22] <michealpwalls> he's a fucking looney-tune.
[15:09:27] <crutchy> michealpwalls: me too
[15:09:33] <michealpwalls> Has no grasp on history at all.. Or is denying it.
[15:09:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, he's on the right side he's just not very smart and does the right shit for entirely the wrong reasons.
[15:09:42] <michealpwalls> One of the two. Probably th elatter, as he is obviously well educated.
[15:09:51] <crutchy> i have nfi how you draw your conclusions
[15:09:53] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: no, ron paul has a lot of truth that he speaks, but he is a pied piper
[15:09:55] <michealpwalls> So there's no way he is *ignorant* of his own countries history. Therefor, the guy is a royal fucking douchebag.
[15:10:24] <MrBluze> he's no douchebag, he's educated like the rest of them, but he's in cohoots like the rest of them
[15:10:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, there's every possibility he's not smart enough to reason it out.
[15:10:34] <crutchy> but anyway, imho it was your loss
[15:10:35] <michealpwalls> True...
[15:10:38] <michealpwalls> That's true, I suppose
[15:10:44] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Not really, I'm Canadian silly!
[15:10:53] <crutchy> you are affected more than me
[15:10:56] <MrBluze> ron paul is the token "if only" candidate
[15:10:57] <crutchy> :-P
[15:10:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, dude, yall have the best politician ever.
[15:11:00] <MrBluze> the US always has them
[15:11:04] <michealpwalls> I have no real voice in the matter at all.. Just throwing my (deflated) 0.02 cents around :D
[15:11:21] <MrBluze> in Australia we get people like pauline hanson etc
[15:11:21] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Pirate Browser Ticks Over 5,000,000 Downloads - http://sylnt.us - dare-ya-to-pirate-this
[15:11:32] <MrBluze> but they kill those ones off before they get to be a problem
[15:11:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> "I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana farms with their guns."
[15:11:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> wtf was his name...
[15:11:57] <crutchy> pauline hanson was another victim of the media... i didn't agree with what i saw of her political views, but the media roasted her just like it did ron paul
[15:12:20] <michealpwalls> Just give up, vote Liberal.
[15:12:20] <michealpwalls> :)
[15:12:23] <crutchy> wouldn't have mattered what she really stood for... it was against the status quo, and she paid
[15:12:23] <MrBluze> TheMightyBuzzard: as long as they dont criticize US foreign policy, or state supported usury by banks, its fine
[15:13:01] <MrBluze> crutchy: Australia does that to anyone who falls out of the left/right line
[15:13:06] <crutchy> have you seen the peter schiff youtube video taken at the DNC?
[15:13:10] <crutchy> funny shit
[15:13:17] <michealpwalls> Before I quit the convo, let me explain this: I look at the extremes... Both ends of the spectrum.
[15:13:30] <michealpwalls> So in North America, yes, you're right.. Lots of corruption. Like I said, I probably wont vote anymore.
[15:13:42] <MrBluze> if u had a policy that Australia should let the east timorese have their oil, and we should stop fighting other people's wars, you'd be up for molestation charges tomorrow morning
[15:13:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> My favorite politician, yes he's Canadian: http://www.liveleak.com
[15:13:50] <michealpwalls> However.. The other end of the spectrum? Homeless people pulling themselvs up to lower and middle and perhaps upper middle class status..
[15:13:55] <michealpwalls> So that is why I still support this system.
[15:14:12] <michealpwalls> It does work, albeit poorly. Libertarian? Jesus christ, guys...The spectrums are so far apart it's unbeleivable.
[15:14:22] <crutchy> your system is putting people out of jobs and into wealfare
[15:14:32] <michealpwalls> All the hyperbolic-sounding things I mentioned did indeed happen. Google it. Google the Pinkertons, Google Standard Oil...
[15:14:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, dude fuck the poor, fuck the middle class, fuck the rich.
[15:14:43] <crutchy> two examples
[15:14:45] <michealpwalls> little guys got brutally stepped on. That doesn't happen here...
[15:14:55] <crutchy> out of many thousands that made america great
[15:14:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> if liberty is not on an individual basis it does not exist.
[15:15:22] <crutchy> and standard oil did help regular people rise
[15:15:28] <michealpwalls> I feel as though I have liberty. That I suppose is where we fundamentally disagree, guys? I *do* have Liberty.
[15:15:30] <crutchy> they gave people jobs
[15:15:35] <michealpwalls> I *am* free to choose my destiny. I explained it too...
[15:15:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> making slaves of the rich to feed the stupid poor is not a good thing. it is theft.
[15:15:42] <michealpwalls> Gave prime examples of forks in the road that I chose to take.
[15:15:44] <crutchy> taxation is theft
[15:15:57] <MrBluze> yep, taxation is theft
[15:16:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, involuntary taxation is theft.
[15:16:04] <michealpwalls> That's what Liberty is.. Choosing your own destiny. Not freedom from Taxation guys.
[15:16:05] <crutchy> lol
[15:16:08] <michealpwalls> ....
[15:16:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> voluntary is entirely different
[15:16:16] <crutchy> never heard of voluntary taxation
[15:16:20] <crutchy> hahaha
[15:16:23] <MrBluze> liberty != brainwashing to think you are free
[15:16:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, there's a bit on the tax form where you can donate more if you like.
[15:16:38] <michealpwalls> Slaves of the rich?
[15:16:39] <crutchy> who does that?
[15:16:43] <michealpwalls> Oh my goodness.. I can't even touch that.
[15:16:53] <michealpwalls> If you seriously think wealthy Americans are Slaves, I have no approach to this conversation at all.
[15:16:56] <michealpwalls> *walks off*
[15:17:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, democrats must. they lurve the government taking money from the rich.
[15:17:06] <crutchy> yeah i guess
[15:17:15] <crutchy> but democrats are pretty dumb
[15:17:18] <MrBluze> wealthy americans can be slaves
[15:17:25] <crutchy> so are many republicans though
[15:17:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, hyperbole to illustrate a point.
[15:17:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, yup but only by action not by ideal.
[15:18:07] <MrBluze> consider an employee of NSA who, if he resigns, knows someone will apply his resignation-bonus to the door of his car with a motorcycle on his way home
[15:18:12] <crutchy> democrats at the DNC were in favor of capping corporate profits!
[15:18:19] <crutchy> as if that would make things better
[15:18:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> state sponsored lotteries would be a good way to get taxes. works like a motherfucker for my indian tribe.
[15:18:28] <crutchy> ignorance must surely be bliss
[15:18:36] <MrBluze> u can be enslaved by your employer
[15:18:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> pays for our entire tribe's healthcare completely and a fuckload more.
[15:18:50] <crutchy> MrBluze: you can *feel* enslaved
[15:18:54] <michealpwalls> I leave you with this: https://en.wikipedia.org
[15:18:57] <michealpwalls> The Golden Age :)
[15:19:13] <crutchy> MrBluze: and i guess to that end you may as well be
[15:19:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> good ole peckerton detinctives
[15:19:46] <crutchy> why do you call it 'the golden age' michealpwalls?
[15:20:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, cause it illustrates his point. libertarianism must be checked when it goes apeshit.
[15:21:09] <crutchy> goes apeshit, meaning what?
[15:21:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> meaning monopolies, private armies, etc...
[15:21:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> you can really fuck up a nation by simply not interfering.
[15:21:47] <crutchy> lol
[15:21:58] <crutchy> not interfering != libertarianism
[15:22:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> people are A) stupid B) rat bastards.
[15:22:18] <crutchy> true
[15:22:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> you gotta put a check on how much of each they can be.
[15:23:01] <MrBluze> well all those philosophies are based on the idea that people will act out of self interest nearly all the time
[15:23:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> which interferes with pure libertarianism but is not a bad thing.
[15:23:13] <crutchy> enforcement of contracts and prevention of fraud is all that government need be involved in economic-wise
[15:23:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> MrBluze, they mostly do.
[15:23:16] <MrBluze> which is partly the problem
[15:23:27] <crutchy> with those two things you wouldn't get monopolies
[15:23:28] <MrBluze> .. cause they also encourage people to think that way
[15:23:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, standard oil.
[15:23:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> ma bell
[15:23:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> they simply bought up everyone else. all legal like for the most part.
[15:24:03] <crutchy> there was obviously fraud involved in standard oil
[15:24:17] <crutchy> i don't know much about them though
[15:24:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes but the majority of their activities were legal.
[15:24:28] <crutchy> so what's the big deal with them then?
[15:24:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> plus monopolies are fucking awful for capitalism and the economy.
[15:24:52] <crutchy> they are
[15:25:06] <crutchy> but they don;t flourish with capitalist competition
[15:25:18] <crutchy> you need competition to keep monopolies in check
[15:25:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, no, they mostly just buy the competition.
[15:25:49] <crutchy> not always
[15:25:56] <crutchy> and that is very expensive way to do business
[15:26:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> me, i'd propose an increasing tax scale based on how much of a market you control.
[15:26:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, works for google
[15:26:33] <crutchy> not going to work cos companies will just find a way around it
[15:26:56] <MrBluze> ... why do any of u assume that the system currently is even applied to the companies in teh way u think?
[15:26:56] <crutchy> google is working closely with government
[15:26:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, only if it's less profitable to sell than to stay in business.
[15:27:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> dude google has shit for lobbying power.
[15:27:15] <MrBluze> these companies are in cheat-mode
[15:27:18] <crutchy> companies make money by selling stuff, not buy buying stuff
[15:27:34] <crutchy> google has how many patents?
[15:27:38] <crutchy> issued by government
[15:27:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> truth but buying stuff is also investment.
[15:27:44] <MrBluze> yes they are run well, but they are in cheat-mode so they run on hyper-steroid-drive
[15:28:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> patents aren't a bad idea but they need to be limited to like 5-6 years.
[15:28:18] <crutchy> roi is from selling stuff though
[15:28:44] <MrBluze> crutchy: roi can be from sinking competition and fixing prices
[15:28:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> right, or from removing competition so you can keep selling stuff at inflated margins.
[15:28:51] <MrBluze> snap
[15:28:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> ^
[15:28:56] <MrBluze> like gulf and weston
[15:29:02] <MrBluze> aka engulf and devour
[15:29:04] <crutchy> when companies start buying their competition, it means they are losing market share
[15:29:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> like the cable companies.
[15:29:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> no it means they WERE losing market share.
[15:29:36] <crutchy> they buy companies to regain what they lost
[15:29:43] <crutchy> well attempt to regain
[15:29:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> right. short term loss to regain it.
[15:30:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> you could zergling them to death but that's the only way.
[15:30:15] <crutchy> ghost nuke
[15:30:19] <crutchy> from orbit :-P
[15:30:24] <MrBluze> in distributionism, monopoly is ok
[15:30:40] <michealpwalls> LOL science vessel EMP and then ghost nuke
[15:30:41] <MrBluze> it is just a sign that people have decided thats what they want
[15:30:41] <michealpwalls> GG NO RE
[15:30:45] <crutchy> in capitalism, if you get a monopoly it means they are doing good things
[15:30:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> anyway, i gotta go linux up a bud. he likes the hell out of it cause it almost never breaks but he can't admin it himself.
[15:30:57] <crutchy> it means consumers want what they're selling
[15:31:02] <michealpwalls> haha "linux up"
[15:31:10] <MrBluze> read an article recently that an EMP over the US could kill 90% of the population
[15:31:25] <MrBluze> just by the disruption to the social system
[15:31:28] <crutchy> simply by taking out electrical supplies?
[15:31:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> wish i could arch him but he's getting xubuntu instead cause i ain't gonna go over weekly just to pacman -Syu
[15:31:39] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: In modern societies dependent upon electricity-driven systems, yea, we'd be pretty fucked. Not for entirely obvious reasons though
[15:31:51] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: Consider our nuclear power plants. If they lose power, they lose ability to cool and regulate themselves ;)
[15:31:52] <crutchy> refrigeration is critical
[15:32:01] <michealpwalls> And also refrigeration of our food ^
[15:32:05] <crutchy> without refrigeration, no food
[15:32:06] <michealpwalls> Also extremely important/fragile :/
[15:32:34] <crutchy> i was surprised at how big an impact refrigeration had on society
[15:32:44] <crutchy> it basically lead to urbanisation
[15:32:54] <MrBluze> yep
[15:33:02] <MrBluze> thats why i dont live in an urban setting anymore ;)
[15:33:08] <michealpwalls> Yea it's crazy how small things can cascade on and on. It's the Byzantine Fault Tolerance problem.
[15:33:12] <crutchy> lol same here
[15:33:24] <michealpwalls> When you have multiple parts, each that take input from the output of other parts, once 1 part faults it can bring the entire system down
[15:33:32] <MrBluze> yup
[15:33:36] <michealpwalls> As it sends faulty input to working parts, which cause *them* to fault..
[15:33:40] <michealpwalls> So on and so forth heehee!
[15:33:42] <MrBluze> US is more fragile than it likes to think
[15:33:49] <MrBluze> hence the very aggressive activities abroad at the moment
[15:33:51] <crutchy> look at detroid
[15:33:59] <crutchy> s/oid/oit/
[15:33:59] <SedBot> <crutchy> look at detroit
[15:34:04] <michealpwalls> It's extremely fragile. That is precisely what 9/11 hysteria was all about (Well I'm sure it went further but the core of the issue I think)
[15:34:25] <michealpwalls> Those very simple, cheap attacks showed the cascade that can happen :/
[15:34:27] <crutchy> 9/11 is still up in the air i think
[15:34:38] <michealpwalls> Well, I accept the general facts hehe
[15:34:46] <crutchy> not sure when the lid will come off it, but eventually it will
[15:34:56] <crutchy> lol 'general facts'
[15:34:59] <crutchy> :-P
[15:35:12] <michealpwalls> It goes back to what I was talking to MrBluze about, the way our government is losing the Information war..
[15:35:24] <crutchy> they are because many are waking up
[15:35:26] <michealpwalls> 9/11 is a prime example. Dude we got attacked and mostly people are debating about bs semantics...
[15:35:37] <crutchy> why do you think ron paul was so popular?
[15:35:38] <michealpwalls> What more of a sign can you ask for? There's a serious problem with Information flow.
[15:35:42] <MrBluze> .. got attacked?
[15:35:53] <crutchy> yeah a lot of assumptions there
[15:36:14] <michealpwalls> I wont humour you on 9/11 conspiracy theories, guys.
[15:36:17] <MrBluze> who attacked u on 9/11?
[15:36:19] <michealpwalls> It's not funny.
[15:36:20] <michealpwalls> :)
[15:36:28] <MrBluze> yeah its not funny at all
[15:36:33] <crutchy> what's not funny is how is was handled
[15:36:39] <MrBluze> because millions have died since
[15:36:55] <MrBluze> and some fat cats got some juicy insurance payouts over it
[15:36:59] <crutchy> the aftermath of 9/11 was a damn tragedy moreso than the event itself
[15:37:26] <michealpwalls> if you want to talk conspiracy, what about foreign powers coordinating 9/11 as a proxy war? Such as China.
[15:37:29] <michealpwalls> Who benefits.
[15:37:31] <michealpwalls> ? :)
[15:37:38] <MrBluze> yeah possibly michealpwalls
[15:37:42] <crutchy> i don't care much for conspiracy
[15:37:43] <MrBluze> i honestly dont know who did it
[15:37:58] <crutchy> i just can't believe it wasn;t treated as a crime scene
[15:38:08] <MrBluze> but the US had its wars planned well beforehand
[15:38:12] <michealpwalls> Well I think that's much more productive than any foolish 9/11 junk like "it didn't happen" or "the CIA rigged the towers" 'cause that's all just complete poppycock and sidesteps the real issue.
[15:38:14] <MrBluze> 9/11 was just handy for the narrative
[15:38:39] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: That's obvious. The U.S after WWII drew up and preserved broad plans for many, many nations around the world. It's called being prepared :D
[15:38:46] <michealpwalls> They eve have plans for Canada, I'm sure.
[15:38:48] <michealpwalls> LOL
[15:38:54] <MrBluze> afghan war was in the planning since the hoover company built dams for the afghans
[15:39:35] <michealpwalls> Well, I don't know anything about that but Afghanistan isn't exactly a stable region. It has been in conflict for more than 50 years solid in one form or another...
[15:39:50] <michealpwalls> So it's kind of hard to use that as a sign of anything significant :/
[15:40:00] <michealpwalls> Also, where is Afghanistan in proximity to China? :)
[15:40:14] <michealpwalls> And Iraq? And the rest of th regions the U.S charged into after 9/11? hehehe
[15:40:14] <crutchy> thinking that terrorists from some bumfuck country thousands of miles away got jealous of the american standard of living and offended by american ideals so they defeated the us intelligence agencies, flew a 767 after training in a light airplane into a building and that buildings, which brought those buildings down
[15:40:17] <MrBluze> cause thats when they discovered the resources there .. and in addition to strategic importance it became irresistible
[15:40:19] <MrBluze> the soviets must have known also somehow
[15:40:20] <MrBluze> but failed
[15:40:27] <michealpwalls> crutchy: That's what happened, though...
[15:40:30] <crutchy> if you said that before 9/11 you would have been laughed off the stage
[15:40:40] <crutchy> it sounds more like a conspiracy theory than the conspiracy theories
[15:40:49] <michealpwalls> crutchy: I think it's more useful to question *who* sent them? *who* funded and who trained them? I think the CIA is a really poor answer to those questions :)
[15:40:55] <michealpwalls> because, who benefits? Certainyl not the CIA...
[15:41:27] <crutchy> regardless... who really thinks muslims in afghanistan really give a flying toss about america?
[15:41:39] <crutchy> they do now
[15:41:41] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: Afghanistan has been important since th time of Napoleon, did you know? It is of grand strategic importance..
[15:41:46] <crutchy> cos you won't fucking leave :-P
[15:41:47] <michealpwalls> *just* the land, nevermind resources. Fuck resources...
[15:41:54] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: yes indeed
[15:42:11] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Well yea, I think they were pawns in something much bigger... However the facts remain. The *did* do what they did... :/
[15:42:16] <MrBluze> US is in an all-or nothing assault on the planet
[15:42:21] <michealpwalls> I think it's more productive to question *why* they did what they did...
[15:42:25] <MrBluze> sadly for US it wont come off
[15:42:33] <crutchy> the only thing we know for sure was that the wtc was destroyed
[15:42:35] <crutchy> that's all
[15:42:40] <MrBluze> ^
[15:42:44] <MrBluze> that is all we know.
[15:42:53] <MrBluze> cause u can go and check out the site yourself
[15:42:56] <michealpwalls> Well.. there are much more facts really
[15:43:05] <crutchy> no there is speculation
[15:43:13] <crutchy> and conspiracy
[15:43:14] <MrBluze> there is an ocean of misinformation
[15:43:20] <crutchy> and that too
[15:43:37] <michealpwalls> lol
[15:43:52] <crutchy> you believe what you believe because you were told
[15:43:55] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: beware of emotion
[15:44:02] <MrBluze> if u feel emotional about it, check yourself
[15:44:13] <crutchy> the media/government told you that's what happened
[15:44:27] <michealpwalls> hehe I'm not emotional, however the approach you've taken leaves little to no room for me? :P
[15:44:36] <crutchy> even those that were there on the day tell conflicting storiies
[15:44:41] <MrBluze> no, i am just saying ..
[15:44:49] <michealpwalls> It's like a religious debate where the religious person tries to argue that all science is wrong and so I cannot use science in th debate.. What else is there? :)
[15:44:54] <MrBluze> the media brainwashes by giving u misinformation and lacing it with emotion
[15:44:54] <michealpwalls> Beisdes just laughter and humour hehe
[15:44:58] <crutchy> science is wrong
[15:45:05] <crutchy> science is a religion itself
[15:45:13] <crutchy> and scientists deny it
[15:45:13] <michealpwalls> There is a 9/11 Commission Report *full* of scientific evidence-based facts..
[15:45:14] <michealpwalls> Full of it.
[15:45:17] <crutchy> lol
[15:45:24] <crutchy> no it was a government report
[15:45:30] <crutchy> full of government stuff
[15:45:30] <michealpwalls> You guys discredit it all, so I'm not sure what you can expect me to say? :/
[15:45:31] <michealpwalls> hehe
[15:45:33] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: confounding and bias
[15:45:44] <michealpwalls> Alright, I've got one..
[15:45:47] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: if i told u 100 lies, and then told u one more, would u believe the last one?
[15:45:53] <crutchy> i don't know if you're right or wrong (you could be right) but i don;t know for sure
[15:46:01] <michealpwalls> Have either of you heard of Dr. Michio Kaku? He's a Theoritical Physicist.
[15:46:17] <MrBluze> expert opinion, level 5 evidence
[15:46:25] <MrBluze> well.. level 4 .. but ;)
[15:46:27] <michealpwalls> Just a second.
[15:46:33] <crutchy> i dunno. might have come across him. i suck with names
[15:46:49] <MrBluze> toxicity data from a drug company = totally unbelievable
[15:46:57] <michealpwalls> Short background
[15:47:01] <MrBluze> whodunnit report by vested interest government = same thing
[15:47:12] <MrBluze> ok go ahead .. sorry for interrupting
[15:47:36] <michealpwalls> So, he has a Ph.D in theoretical physics. That is where you take theory/hypothesis and use your physics expertise to prove / disprove it.
[15:47:51] <crutchy> i do love roasting science as a religion :-P
[15:48:02] <michealpwalls> People have submitted many 9/11 questions to him, among which is the 'melting steel' hypothesis that was very popular
[15:48:13] <michealpwalls> That the fire after the planes struck could not "melt" steel.
[15:48:26] <crutchy> it doesn;t melt steel, but it can weaken it
[15:48:38] <michealpwalls> ^
[15:48:41] <michealpwalls> That's the point of his response
[15:48:45] <crutchy> melting point of steel is pretty high
[15:49:00] <MrBluze> well, u can weaken it
[15:49:02] <MrBluze> then u can blow it up
[15:49:10] <michealpwalls> It loses more than 55% of it's strength at temperatures *below* those possible with a fire feuled by jet fuel. Having a royal hard time finding his video
[15:49:16] <michealpwalls> Among all the *bullshit* 9/11 junk on YouTube.
[15:49:17] <michealpwalls> What a fucking shame
[15:49:21] <michealpwalls> Real science burried by bs
[15:49:27] <crutchy> as a structural engineer, what bothers me the most is the rate at which the towers fell
[15:49:29] <MrBluze> but michealpwalls the building was supposed to survive a strike such as the one it got
[15:49:42] <crutchy> regardless of cause of failure
[15:49:46] <michealpwalls> crutchy: It shouldn't. He analysed that as well and it's very simple mathematics
[15:49:50] <MrBluze> crutchy: it collapsed very neatly
[15:50:00] <crutchy> it collapsed very fast
[15:50:05] <crutchy> too fast
[15:50:09] <MrBluze> u would expect it to topple and crash over a 1km distance
[15:50:09] <crutchy> unusually fast
[15:50:10] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Once the first upper floor went, it's force is it's Mass * it's Acceleration... That force was way too much for the floor below it..
[15:50:15] <crutchy> not necessarily topple
[15:50:19] <michealpwalls> So now, it is it's mass(2) * acceleration when it hit the 3rd flow.
[15:50:26] <michealpwalls> Do you see the mathes? It's exponentially rising...
[15:50:27] <MrBluze> crutchy: it wouldnt collapse so evenly surely
[15:50:31] <crutchy> yes, but floors below should still offer resistance
[15:50:33] <michealpwalls> *nothing* could stop tha tcollapse once it started
[15:50:46] <michealpwalls> And, if you slow the video down, you can *see* the first, 2nd and the rest just go together
[15:50:50] <crutchy> i don't buy that
[15:50:56] <michealpwalls> 'cause at the 3rd floor, the force is enormous
[15:51:04] <crutchy> but so is the structure
[15:51:11] <michealpwalls> It's mass(3) * acceleration and th acceleration is increasing at that point
[15:51:14] <MrBluze> the structure is over-engineered, michealpwalls
[15:51:29] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: It wasn't, not for *that* particular downward force
[15:51:31] <crutchy> columns don't break like twigs
[15:51:33] <MrBluze> those buildings are designed to stand forever, basically
[15:51:35] <crutchy> connections break first
[15:51:42] <crutchy> always
[15:52:01] <michealpwalls> It was over-engineered for *lateral* force, not horizontal force.. It could take side impacts, *not* floor collapses onto other floors
[15:52:09] <MrBluze> crutchy: i have spoken to quite a few engineers over this in the past and they basically say the same thing
[15:52:13] <crutchy> it was designed for wind
[15:52:21] <crutchy> wind is lateral
[15:52:27] <michealpwalls> Yea, lateral pressure on the sides of the structure... Not horizontal pressure from above
[15:52:31] <MrBluze> crutchy: no, they did theoretical testing against a jumbo jet impact
[15:52:33] <crutchy> err
[15:52:35] <michealpwalls> Wait,
[15:52:38] <MrBluze> that was part of the design
[15:52:40] <michealpwalls> I think I said tha tbackwards sorry? LOL
[15:52:43] <crutchy> lol
[15:52:46] <michealpwalls> *consults a dictionary*
[15:52:47] <crutchy> confused me
[15:52:50] <crutchy> :-P
[15:53:10] <crutchy> structures in australia are waaaaay overdesigned
[15:53:21] <crutchy> so overdesigned we often complain about it
[15:53:25] <michealpwalls> Oh! Okay I did say it wrong sorry LMAO
[15:53:55] <michealpwalls> It was engineered for lateral strength, not *vertical* strength? (It is strong if you push on it's side.. But if you push down from it's top it easily collapses on itself)
[15:54:04] <crutchy> ?
[15:54:06] <michealpwalls> Once the first floor started falling, the result was inevitable
[15:54:25] <crutchy> each floor is designed for huge live loads
[15:54:45] <crutchy> and even if the floor fails, the core columns should have still beeen standing
[15:54:58] <crutchy> they are almost a building unto themselves
[15:55:04] <michealpwalls> The columns stood, the little metal lips that held the floor in place is what gave
[15:55:15] <michealpwalls> The columns were cut by emergency clean-up/recovery grews
[15:55:19] <crutchy> connections, yes
[15:55:43] <crutchy> but the vertical capacity of those columns was huge
[15:55:56] <crutchy> and they sat on top of each other
[15:56:03] <MrBluze> those towers were designed with the jumbo jet impact in mind
[15:56:17] <crutchy> with lateral support between them from huge beams
[15:56:21] <MrBluze> they were meant to stand and burn for days on end to allow evacuation of the city etc
[15:56:26] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: But not the fire/heat, they didn't *simulate* an impact..
[15:56:38] <michealpwalls> They only imagined what would happen. NIST did simulate it, and recreating the collapse over and over
[15:56:41] <crutchy> fire and heat don't cause columns that size to melt
[15:56:43] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: sky scrapers that catch fire burn for DAYS AND DAYS
[15:56:44] <michealpwalls> You can find that simulation online, by the way...
[15:56:52] <MrBluze> they just burn and burn
[15:57:00] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: Not fueled by metric tonnes of Jet Fuel, however....
[15:57:05] <michealpwalls> LOL
[15:57:09] <crutchy> there was a new tower in china that was basically gutted by fire
[15:57:17] <crutchy> the frame was still standing
[15:57:24] <MrBluze> jet fuel is kerosine
[15:57:32] <crutchy> burns off quick
[15:57:40] <MrBluze> and not hot
[15:57:48] <MrBluze> u need special devices to generate the heat eg: jet engines
[15:57:54] <michealpwalls> crutchy: "don't cause columns ... to melt" bazinga! That's the video I tried to link. It could weaken it by up to 55% though. Depending on the design, that could be critical :P
[15:57:56] <crutchy> lots of oxygen
[15:57:59] <MrBluze> to delivery O2 fast enough
[15:58:14] <crutchy> but the fire wasn;'t throughout the sntire building
[15:58:17] <MrBluze> the building was not full of O2 .. it just had 21%
[15:58:21] <crutchy> so the lower columns didn''t melt
[15:58:22] <michealpwalls> In the design of the WTC, it *was* critical.. 'cause only small lips held the floor in place
[15:58:25] <michealpwalls> Not the columns themselves..
[15:58:40] <michealpwalls> Flors did not rest on columsn, they rested on lips which protruded out from th columns.. That was the design flaw
[15:59:10] <crutchy> yes, but failure of those lips didn't cause the lower floor columns to desintigrate
[15:59:23] <crutchy> well there were some left
[15:59:34] <michealpwalls> Again, I think this is very counter-productive. The towers *did* come down... Nearly 3k Americans *did* die. Why shouldn't waste anymore time on such semantics IMHO...
[15:59:35] <michealpwalls> :/
[15:59:36] <crutchy> probably the very bottom ones
[15:59:56] <crutchy> well, if my family died like that i would want to know why
[16:00:09] <crutchy> and how etc
[16:00:10] <michealpwalls> Osama explained it well in a video. Did you watch it? :)
[16:00:22] <michealpwalls> hehe
[16:00:33] <crutchy> i don;t trust osama as far as i can't throw him
[16:00:54] <michealpwalls> Just saying is all. I am accused of being "closed to truth" however whenever I ask that, the response seems the same. Nobody has watched Osama explain it in his own words..
[16:00:56] <crutchy> i heard the only aircraft allowed to fly out of the us after the faa grounding was for the bin laden family
[16:00:59] <michealpwalls> And fucking LAUGH at you, dude.. LOL.
[16:01:20] <michealpwalls> He declared war on America and he wanted to paralyze your economy with an attack on your World Trade Center, the "heart of th evil monster" he says..
[16:01:34] <crutchy> maybe he did
[16:01:35] <MrBluze> ...
[16:01:39] <crutchy> maybe he was just an actor
[16:01:45] <MrBluze> 10 years on and ..
[16:01:45] <michealpwalls> Maybe
[16:01:50] <MrBluze> still this?
[16:01:59] <michealpwalls> But to discredit or ignore him is really bad form IMHO
[16:02:09] <crutchy> to give him credit is bad form
[16:02:16] <MrBluze> osama? meh
[16:02:19] <michealpwalls> This guy holds no punches at all. He's totaly open with his goal, why he wants to achieve it and how he plans to go about doing it..
[16:02:28] <MrBluze> man
[16:02:30] <michealpwalls> heh
[16:02:33] <crutchy> he's supposed to be the bad guy. do you really trust the bad guy?
[16:02:35] <MrBluze> if i had a gazillion dollars
[16:02:43] <MrBluze> i could pay someone to say stuff like that on youtube for me
[16:02:44] <michealpwalls> I don't trust him, but I know my enemy... Do you? :)
[16:02:54] <MrBluze> and then u'd believe it
[16:02:58] <crutchy> i don't think anyone knows the reall enemy
[16:03:10] <MrBluze> we are communicating on the enemy
[16:03:16] <MrBluze> there u go
[16:03:28] <MrBluze> zen moment for u
[16:03:33] <crutchy> i think anyone who claims to know their enemy is playing into their true enemy's hands
[16:03:38] <michealpwalls> I believe I do. He wants to stop the spread of th American Empire, which he beleives is an Empire of money. He believes the U.S buys governments, including *his* government (Saudi Arabia) and uses money to enslave his people.
[16:03:43] <michealpwalls> He therefor declares war on America.
[16:03:47] <michealpwalls> What else is there to understand, guys?
[16:03:56] <crutchy> dude the whole world is trying to stop the american empire
[16:03:56] <MrBluze> well they did buy saudi arabia
[16:03:59] <MrBluze> so?
[16:04:07] <michealpwalls> This is your enemy.
[16:04:10] <michealpwalls> hehe
[16:04:20] <MrBluze> enemy is lies
[16:04:22] <MrBluze> friend is truth
[16:04:26] <MrBluze> that's my take
[16:04:29] <crutchy> a lot of the world thinks of the american empire as the enemy
[16:04:30] <michealpwalls> The very Libertarian views you hold dear is what he declared war on. I think it's pretty basic :)
[16:04:49] <crutchy> so he's jealous of libertarianism?!
[16:04:55] <michealpwalls> No, not jealous
[16:04:59] <michealpwalls> He is rich, don't forget..
[16:05:00] <MrBluze> yeah he hates us because we're so FREE right?
[16:05:02] * MrBluze laughs
[16:05:03] <crutchy> wow we are deep down the rabbit hole now
[16:05:11] <michealpwalls> The Bin Laden family is a billionaire family...
[16:05:25] <crutchy> and they're jealous of american freedom?
[16:05:31] <MrBluze> billions of.. wait for it ... US dollars
[16:05:50] <michealpwalls> He is not jealous. He wants to control his own country.. Not rich Americans. His government doesn't regulate the rich american conglomerates like KBR, Haliburton and etc.
[16:05:53] <crutchy> the bin laden family could probably have bought the wtc
[16:05:59] <michealpwalls> ^ This
[16:06:02] <michealpwalls> Very true
[16:06:23] <crutchy> and kicked everyone out of it
[16:06:51] <michealpwalls> It's kind of like this... Who would you want to run the world? Rich Americans or some other group of rich people? hehehe
[16:07:00] <michealpwalls> I think, really that's what it boils down to. I have my money with the Americans.
[16:07:03] <crutchy> i'd prefer to be free
[16:07:05] <michealpwalls> Fuck everyone else.
[16:07:22] <crutchy> the rest of the world is more prosperous than you think
[16:07:32] <crutchy> remember who is borrowing from who
[16:07:55] <michealpwalls> Americans, albeit crazy, are the closest history has come to a benevolent ruler. I couldn't say the same for a Kalifate, which is what Osama's ultimate goal is..
[16:08:01] <michealpwalls> An Empire ruled by Islam (Kalifate)
[16:08:14] <michealpwalls> Rather than money
[16:08:15] <crutchy> islam is the biggest religion in the world
[16:08:21] <michealpwalls> I don't care. It's still medieval.
[16:08:34] <crutchy> majority apparently thinks otherwise
[16:08:41] <crutchy> democracy is majority rules
[16:08:44] <crutchy> so you lose :-P
[16:08:46] <michealpwalls> We all know how useful a metric that is, though ^
[16:08:48] <MrBluze> u know who i'd like to run america?
[16:08:50] <MrBluze> americans.
[16:09:00] <michealpwalls> LOL MrBluze. I think it's foolish to think they don't?
[16:09:09] <MrBluze> .. read more
[16:09:09] <crutchy> nah they like big government funded corps doing it too much
[16:09:10] <MrBluze> :)
[16:09:37] <crutchy> and bernanke's helicopter money
[16:09:43] <crutchy> well, yellen's now
[16:09:57] <crutchy> all that 'thrift'' bs
[16:10:09] <MrBluze> lol
[16:10:16] <michealpwalls> "Barbarians at the Gates" LOL it's history repeating itself :O
[16:10:18] <michealpwalls> So incredible
[16:10:21] <MrBluze> max kaiser gave a good talk on who runs the US
[16:10:32] <michealpwalls> Americans wont fight for their republic.. Just like Romans :O
[16:10:42] <crutchy> he's a bit of a kook, but does say things in an interesting way sometimes
[16:10:52] <crutchy> michealpwalls: true
[16:10:56] <MrBluze> a bunch of crack-addicted men who have friday orgies on wall street
[16:11:01] <michealpwalls> Max Kaiser and Good Talk don't belong in the same sentence in my opinion :/
[16:11:17] <crutchy> same could be said of obama
[16:11:20] <MrBluze> read more, read widely
[16:11:21] <michealpwalls> haha
[16:11:38] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: that's such a standard defense when you have no real logic/reason hehe
[16:11:41] <MrBluze> kaiser is in the pay of .. probably soros .. but he still says some interesting things from another angle
[16:11:53] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: You can't possibly be aware of what I've read and currently read, right? :P
[16:12:05] <crutchy> there's a video of peter schiff at a senate hearing
[16:12:06] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: u give me clues
[16:12:10] <crutchy> he totally owns
[16:12:33] <MrBluze> im only not aware if u dont say anything
[16:12:34] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: No, I think it is just easier for you to believe I am ignorant rather than accept I hold an educated and opposing view as yours :)
[16:12:39] <crutchy> senators were asking him basic economic questions
[16:12:48] <michealpwalls> So it's very easy to say "read more"
[16:12:49] <michealpwalls> hehe
[16:12:49] <crutchy> and the other lobbyists were.. well... lobbying
[16:13:06] <michealpwalls> Peter Schiff is an interesting speaker :)
[16:13:12] <michealpwalls> Much more interesting than Max Kaiser IMHO.
[16:13:20] <crutchy> he's an economic genius i think
[16:13:28] <michealpwalls> Very intelligent
[16:13:33] <crutchy> ron paul's economic advisor too :-P
[16:13:42] <MrBluze> who pays peter schiff
[16:13:47] <crutchy> lots of people
[16:13:55] <crutchy> he runs businesses
[16:13:59] <crutchy> sells books
[16:14:53] <crutchy> he's in the doom and gloom business, and in his own words "unfortunately thanks to [the federal government] business is booming"
[16:15:05] <crutchy> well he's also a stockbroker, investor etc
[16:15:55] <crutchy> he gambles against the dollar, and i'm pretty sure he's raking in money (just in other currencies)
[16:15:57] <crutchy> and gold etc
[16:16:04] <MrBluze> well, see, there's this von mises school of economics
[16:16:16] <MrBluze> peter schiff appears to be in that camp
[16:16:20] <crutchy> yeah
[16:16:27] <crutchy> austrian school
[16:16:31] <MrBluze> but that has its own billionaire backers
[16:16:35] <MrBluze> but they never tell u that
[16:16:38] <crutchy> they do very well
[16:16:42] <MrBluze> indeed
[16:16:45] <crutchy> they do tell you
[16:16:50] <crutchy> they want you to know
[16:17:15] <crutchy> they make money because they know stuff that works
[16:17:30] <crutchy> not airy fairy keynesian bullshit
[16:17:32] <MrBluze> george soros is behind them
[16:18:02] <MrBluze> i'd say be wary
[16:18:07] <MrBluze> they are just a replacement regime
[16:18:08] <crutchy> there are probably a lot of wealthy austrian schoolers
[16:18:13] <MrBluze> there are
[16:18:27] <crutchy> but at least they employ people to make stuff
[16:18:34] <crutchy> not take stuff
[16:19:02] <crutchy> i have no problem with people making stupendous amounts of money
[16:19:07] <crutchy> like steve jobs
[16:19:11] <michealpwalls> ^
[16:19:14] <crutchy> he gave consumers what they wanted
[16:19:24] <crutchy> he didn't force them to give him money
[16:19:42] <MrBluze> i gotta go to bed
[16:19:44] <MrBluze> its so late
[16:19:46] <crutchy> only governments do that
[16:19:47] <crutchy> lol yeah
[16:19:54] <michealpwalls> hehe, take care MrBluze
[16:20:00] <crutchy> cya mrbluze
[16:20:00] <MrBluze> cheers michealpwalls, crutchy
[16:20:02] <michealpwalls> Nice talking :)
[16:20:05] <MrBluze> you too mate
[16:20:06] <crutchy> good talk :-)
[16:20:15] <MrBluze> i wonder where xlefay is :(
[16:20:21] <crutchy> hmm
[16:20:29] <MrBluze> this irc will one day just evaporate if he doesnt return
[16:20:32] <crutchy> probably in europe somewhere
[16:20:41] <crutchy> but i'm just guessing :-P
[16:20:51] <MrBluze> lol very precise
[16:20:58] <MrBluze> well.. gnite :)
[16:21:00] <MrBluze> cheers
[16:22:32] <michealpwalls> http://www.youtube.com
[16:22:34] <michealpwalls> I FOUND IT!
[16:22:38] <michealpwalls> Jesus it wasn't easy, but I found it
[16:22:48] <michealpwalls> Oh man, it has been edited...
[16:22:53] <michealpwalls> Fucking conspiracy nutcases!
[16:22:53] <michealpwalls> :(
[16:23:02] <michealpwalls> nvm..
[16:23:19] <michealpwalls> Took a great, educated fucking response and cut into it with complete bullshit from a bunch of ignorant retards *sigh*
[16:23:33] <michealpwalls> LOL I give up
[16:23:45] <michealpwalls> This is why I don't even want to vote. Surrounded by fucking retards here, what the hell's the point.
[16:23:56] <crutchy> i have heard of that guy
[16:24:25] <crutchy> dunno why a theoretical physicist thinks he's any kind of authority on structural engineering
[16:24:54] <michealpwalls> Because structural engineering is like a *subset* of Physics??!
[16:24:56] <crutchy> actually i thought he was a conspiracy theorist too
[16:25:17] <crutchy> its not really
[16:25:22] <michealpwalls> What the heck do you really think structural engineering is, if not the applied physics?
[16:25:23] <crutchy> well, it is
[16:25:31] <michealpwalls> All of the math is physics..
[16:25:35] <crutchy> but nothing to do with theoretical physics
[16:25:40] <crutchy> its applied physics
[16:25:49] <michealpwalls> Wait a minute..
[16:26:00] <crutchy> and requires a lot of judgement
[16:26:12] <crutchy> based on experience
[16:26:21] <crutchy> that a theoretical physicist would lack
[16:26:25] <michealpwalls> This is *exactly* what Theoretical Physicists do. Other Physicists are busy doing experimental research. Things you can *do* and *observe*...
[16:26:29] <crutchy> in structural engineering
[16:26:56] <cykros> goddamn it, why oh why didn't I take out a short on Dice?
[16:26:57] <michealpwalls> This challenge.. These series of conspiracies, *cannot* done. It already happened. It's the past and therefor is theoretical/hypothetical. This *is* what Theoretical Physics is :D
[16:27:30] <crutchy> theoretical physics is all about stuff that can;t be proven by experiment
[16:27:34] <crutchy> airy fairy shit
[16:28:03] <crutchy> armchair exercises in government funding pitches
[16:28:16] <crutchy> its nothing like engineering
[16:30:07] <cykros> yea, engineering is all about navigating unreasonable demands from people who have no idea how anything works to churn out a product that does the impossible 6 weeks ahead of time
[16:30:52] <crutchy> that's part of it yes
[16:31:09] <crutchy> but structural engineering is a lot about experience
[16:31:26] <crutchy> understanding how structural elements behave in real life
[16:31:33] <crutchy> over long periods
[16:31:49] <crutchy> studying behaviour of structures under various loads
[16:31:57] <crutchy> etc
[16:32:18] <crutchy> its not so much math and physics
[16:32:29] <crutchy> they are just tools to an engineer
[16:33:24] <crutchy> buildings don;t naturally fall like the wtc did
[16:33:26] <michealpwalls> Do you see that you use ad-hominem attacks on every argument I have made? You attacked the science for being from the government. You attack the source of information from Kaku without taking the info...
[16:33:32] <michealpwalls> hehe you leave nothing for me to do? :/
[16:33:47] <crutchy> i'm not attacking you personally
[16:33:53] <michealpwalls> No I know, not me
[16:34:10] <michealpwalls> But my citations. You attack their character and credibility rather than their facts. That's ad-hominem.
[16:34:12] <crutchy> well what's ad hominem about what i'm saying?
[16:34:42] <crutchy> well i can't help it it you try to use a theoretical physicist to prove something unrelated to theoretical physics
[16:34:47] <michealpwalls> The facts I presented I think are very important however you ignored them because you discredit the source of the facts hehe
[16:35:01] <michealpwalls> I can't see how you believe it unrelated to physics...
[16:35:12] <crutchy> they aren't facts if they are discredited
[16:35:31] <crutchy> i have some experience in structural engineering
[16:35:36] <michealpwalls> This is precisely what physics is.. The interaction of objects in our universe and explain what forces drive those interactions.
[16:35:48] <michealpwalls> Structural engineering is a *subsect*, a very small part, of what a Physicist studies...
[16:35:50] <crutchy> but that's not what engineering is
[16:35:55] <crutchy> no its not
[16:36:06] <crutchy> a physicist could not design a building
[16:36:14] <michealpwalls> I disagree with that..
[16:36:21] <crutchy> you can if you want to
[16:36:24] <michealpwalls> That' slike sayinga Mathematician couldn't develop an encryption algorithm...
[16:36:28] <michealpwalls> Indeed they could.
[16:36:32] <crutchy> not necessarily
[16:36:38] <crutchy> they are related fields
[16:37:06] <crutchy> engineering isn't about physics
[16:37:15] <crutchy> its about experience
[16:37:25] <michealpwalls> In a way... *everything* is about Physics :/
[16:37:36] <crutchy> how things behave in reality, not how things behave in a model
[16:37:46] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Lets take your point, though.
[16:38:01] <michealpwalls> crutchy: here's my retort:
[16:38:30] <michealpwalls> http://monthlyreview.org
[16:38:41] <michealpwalls> That's an essay by Albert Einstein, a Physicist. Rea dth first paragraph :)
[16:39:13] <crutchy> err
[16:39:22] <crutchy> what does socialism have to do with engineering?
[16:39:31] <michealpwalls> Read the first paragraph hehe
[16:39:33] <michealpwalls> You'll see :)
[16:39:43] <michealpwalls> Here I'll summarize..
[16:39:44] <crutchy> "Is it advisable for one who is not an expert on economic and social issues to express views on the subject of socialism? I believe for a number of reasons that it is."
[16:39:54] <crutchy> is that it?
[16:40:09] <michealpwalls> Alright. At a time when Socioeconomic debate raged around the world, very educated people like Albert tried to way in... However people who believed as you do, that Merit dictates voice..
[16:40:27] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Crypto-guru Slams 'NSA-proof' Tech - http://sylnt.us - complex-cryptography-cannot-cover-corner-cutting || Pirate Browser Ticks over 5,000,000 Downloads - http://sylnt.us - dare-ya-to-pirate-this
[16:40:30] <michealpwalls> Many people tried to silence Al and thos elike him.. For not being the "right person" to comment on such things.. As they're "just" physicists..
[16:40:51] <crutchy> i'm not trying to silence anyone
[16:41:00] <michealpwalls> In the opening of that essay, he argues that this is fundamentally wrong. Just because you are not a Structural Engineer, does nto mean you cannot weigh in on Engineering matters..
[16:41:10] <crutchy> its actually people who think like you do that are doing the silencing
[16:41:35] <crutchy> trying to stop people questioning mainstream opinions regarding 9/11
[16:41:51] <michealpwalls> Oh come now, I haven't tried to stop anything.
[16:41:57] <crutchy> and you can weigh in sure, but that doesn't make you right
[16:42:14] <michealpwalls> crutchy: You completely dismissed Kaku for not being a Structural Engineer, though...
[16:42:30] <michealpwalls> And you completely dismissed the science in th 9/11 Commission Report simply because it came from the "Government"...
[16:42:45] <crutchy> no i simply argued that him being a theoretical physicist doesn't necessarily give him credibility in engineering
[16:42:48] <michealpwalls> That's the only reason I linked that Essay. It reminded me of it.
[16:43:06] <crutchy> no i've read a lot of the commission report
[16:43:10] <michealpwalls> crutchy: When he makes a scientific-based argument, I think it does...
[16:43:15] <crutchy> its got more holes than swiss cheese
[16:43:25] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Just because you're a janitor, does not mean you do not understand the physics behind a structure collapsing..
[16:43:42] <crutchy> but it doesn't mean you do
[16:43:44] <michealpwalls> If a janitor puts down the math, you can't just ignore it. Either prove it wrong or accept it..
[16:43:49] <michealpwalls> You dont' sit there and attack him for being a janitor.
[16:43:54] <crutchy> i'm not
[16:44:14] <crutchy> you tried to push the 'theoretical physicist' down my throat remember
[16:44:27] <michealpwalls> Why haven't you even mentioned what Kaku said, then? Have you tried to do what he suggested you do? He even explained a simple experiment you could do in your own home to verify his math.
[16:44:34] <michealpwalls> Did you do it? Did you prove his maths wrong? :/
[16:44:45] <crutchy> i don't care about his maths
[16:44:50] <michealpwalls> Oh come now...
[16:44:52] <crutchy> maths don't govern building collapses
[16:44:54] <michealpwalls> That's precisely my point.
[16:45:07] <michealpwalls> Wait, what?
[16:45:10] <michealpwalls> Math governs everything :O
[16:45:14] <michealpwalls> hehe
[16:45:19] <crutchy> only to a mathematician
[16:45:34] <crutchy> a physicist will argue that physics governs everything
[16:45:44] <michealpwalls> Everything can be modeled by math, because everything is Physics... Ultimately, physics is math.
[16:46:05] <crutchy> they are just models made up by fallible humans
[16:46:16] <crutchy> to attempt to simulate reality
[16:46:22] <michealpwalls> hehe that's getting pretty deep :P
[16:46:29] <michealpwalls> philosophically deep hehe
[16:46:40] <crutchy> do you think i'm wrong?
[16:46:43] <michealpwalls> Yes
[16:46:50] <crutchy> that's ok
[16:46:53] <michealpwalls> But I think you make a good point
[16:46:53] <michealpwalls> :)
[16:47:06] <crutchy> i look at structures all day long
[16:47:11] <crutchy> i'm paid to do it
[16:47:22] <crutchy> i like to think i know something aboutthem
[16:47:36] <michealpwalls> I don't doubt your knowledge at all :P
[16:47:41] <crutchy> seeing a building come down like that just didn;tsit right
[16:47:53] <crutchy> it didn't feel right at all
[16:48:09] <crutchy> buildings just don't come down like that unassisted
[16:48:13] <crutchy> imho
[16:48:30] <michealpwalls> I think the 2 planes full of fuel assisted quite a bit, though?
[16:48:32] <michealpwalls> hehehe
[16:48:43] <crutchy> they do a lot of localized damage yes
[16:49:03] <crutchy> compare the mass of a plane to the mass of a building though
[16:49:22] <crutchy> there is a fuckload of steel holding up a building like that
[16:49:52] <crutchy> heat can do damage, but not like that
[16:50:03] <crutchy> fires don't bring down buildings like that
[16:50:29] <crutchy> even ones with gaping holes in the side
[16:50:44] <crutchy> it wasn't that windy on 9/11
[16:51:36] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - The $2 Undecillion Lawsuit - http://sylnt.us - looking-for-really-REALLY-good-bodyguards
[16:52:18] <crutchy> anyway, my opinion isn't supported by math or physics theories
[16:52:36] <crutchy> its just plain ol' engineering judgement
[16:52:45] <michealpwalls> Well what about motive then? What would be an alternative motive in your opinion?
[16:52:59] <crutchy> i don't much care about the motive conspiracies
[16:53:17] <crutchy> someone obviously did it for some reason or another
[16:53:23] <michealpwalls> If Osama is a puppet and all of what he said junk, what is the motive? It seems to always point at th CIA but what on Earth would the CIA gain by doing something like thiat?
[16:53:36] <crutchy> motive isn't always obvious
[16:53:41] <michealpwalls> Or *anything* in the U.S government.. How does *anything* local to the U.S benefit at all?
[16:53:50] <crutchy> it may not have been the US government
[16:53:58] <michealpwalls> Really, in most ways, the U.S has declined *accross the board* after 9/11...
[16:54:00] <crutchy> i don't know who was responsible
[16:54:09] <michealpwalls> Hrmm
[16:54:22] <crutchy> but someone obviously did it
[16:54:31] <crutchy> why they did it i don't know
[16:54:42] <michealpwalls> Besides the person who admits to it, though, we don't even have a *suspect* ?
[16:54:52] <michealpwalls> Or even a trail that leads to a benficiary party?
[16:54:56] <crutchy> but the way those towers fell makes me question the official story
[16:54:57] <michealpwalls> That's where this is so illogical for me..
[16:55:44] <michealpwalls> The path leads straight to Osama's network... The motive benefits him in many, *many* ways both politically and economically.. He has even admitted and explained all of this. Yet it can't be his network hehe :/
[16:56:12] <crutchy> it might have been osama
[16:56:17] <crutchy> i have no idea
[16:56:23] <michealpwalls> crutchy: It's like space, though. This is kind of a tangent so bare with me hehehe
[16:56:51] <crutchy> np
[16:57:09] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Seemingly simple things, mundane things, when done on grand scales are hard to understand. Experiments we do on small scales, when ramped up become much different. That's why we do over 100
[16:57:38] <michealpwalls> experiments on the International Space Station that would put a regular person to sleep. Can't you accep that, in the scale of the WTC, things can become much more difficult to predict?
[16:57:49] <michealpwalls> Than, a traditional building under traditional circumstances
[16:58:00] <crutchy> but structural engineering is on that scale
[16:58:10] <crutchy> i design things with big beams every day
[16:58:33] <crutchy> that's why its so different to physics
[16:58:33] <michealpwalls> crutchy: On the scale of fully-fueled planes running into high-floor locations of the largest sky-scrapers in North America? :/
[16:58:39] <michealpwalls> You have to admit those *are* extremes...
[16:59:18] <crutchy> just recently i designed a pissy little water tank stand to withstand winds over 100 m/s
[16:59:55] <michealpwalls> But in your control, wind was the only variable you had to think about... When you add a fully fueld jet plane running into it, the variables become unmanageable...
[17:00:04] <michealpwalls> And who knows what might happen without extremely powerful simulators
[17:00:07] <michealpwalls> To juggle it all in real-time
[17:00:13] <crutchy> that's why there are such high factors in engineering
[17:00:19] <crutchy> its not about maths or physics
[17:00:25] <crutchy> experience has put those factors in
[17:00:52] <crutchy> imperfections in material forgings
[17:00:59] <michealpwalls> Right, but what I mean is, what happened on 9/11 due to the scale is out of everyone's experience zone :/
[17:01:01] <crutchy> some guy leaving a bolt out
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[17:01:07] <crutchy> cracks
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[17:01:10] <crutchy> corrosion
[17:01:11] <crutchy> etc
[17:01:31] <crutchy> there are lots of ways structural elements can faiil
[17:01:37] <crutchy> but they are designed to fail
[17:01:49] <crutchy> structures are designed to accommodate failure
[17:01:52] <michealpwalls> One thing that was mentioned in the 9/11 report is that when the plane struck... The aluminium frame of the plane was shredded and sprayed into the tower. The debris tore off the
[17:02:00] <michealpwalls> fire retardent protective covering of the structural beans...
[17:02:07] <crutchy> yeah i read that
[17:02:09] <michealpwalls> Leaving them bare to the flames and heat
[17:02:12] <michealpwalls> *that* is what I"m talking about
[17:02:20] <crutchy> buildings catch fire all the time
[17:02:23] <michealpwalls> How can you possibly imagine/account for these kinds of variables?
[17:02:33] <crutchy> steel is designed to withstand it
[17:02:43] <michealpwalls> *but* do they catch fire after having *all* of their components stripped bare of protective coatings?
[17:02:48] <crutchy> i have charts on my desk of steel strength variation with temperature
[17:03:07] <crutchy> an office fire would probably burn hotter and longer than a jet fuel fire
[17:03:17] <crutchy> jet a1 is very volatile
[17:03:17] <michealpwalls> That doesn't make sense..
[17:03:26] <michealpwalls> That *was* an office fire... Fueled with jet fuel...
[17:03:27] <crutchy> offices are full of paper
[17:03:38] <crutchy> compacted'
[17:04:04] <crutchy> they are full of plastics
[17:04:09] <crutchy> lots of combustibles
[17:04:14] <crutchy> slow burning ones
[17:04:38] <crutchy> jet fuel wouldn't burn for days
[17:04:41] <crutchy> it can't
[17:04:42] <michealpwalls> Just like the twin towers were. The planes, according to th report, when their aluminium hulls where shredded the debris pushed all the office junk into 1 corner of the floor...
[17:04:51] <michealpwalls> Where it all burned, after being coated with the jet fuel
[17:05:04] <michealpwalls> So on one end, you have massive hole from the plane..
[17:05:06] <crutchy> yeah
[17:05:16] <michealpwalls> On th other, *all* the junk pushed, soaked in fueld an dburning against the solid wall
[17:05:22] <crutchy> that's ok
[17:05:26] <michealpwalls> Many things like this, though... Many many things all together.
[17:05:38] <crutchy> fires are bad
[17:05:48] <crutchy> worse when combined with biig holes, sure
[17:05:52] <crutchy> they look scary
[17:06:13] <crutchy> but those firefighters went running up those stairs anyway
[17:06:16] <crutchy> you know why?
[17:06:25] <michealpwalls> The fact that the pillars were stripped.. The fact that the plane's force pushed all debris to one area where it could centralize the heat in, the fact that the fire surpressant system failed
[17:06:28] <michealpwalls> No water pressure ^
[17:06:29] <crutchy> cos structural failure was the last thing on their mind
[17:06:37] <michealpwalls> On and on and on and on... Seriously read the 9/11 report some time.
[17:06:43] <crutchy> i have
[17:06:49] <crutchy> its full of holes
[17:07:18] <crutchy> lots of theories trying to convince people that know better of things that aren't possiblle
[17:07:46] <michealpwalls> 9/11 *is* the Byzantine Fault Tolerance problem. I can't possibly think of *any* better example. It's a major subject in Computer Science
[17:08:22] <michealpwalls> You see the big system (Byzantine Army) without seeing how that 1 fault can spread into so many parts of the system until the entire system suffers catastrophic collapse..
[17:08:30] <crutchy> lol
[17:08:47] <crutchy> engineers see fault
[17:08:50] <crutchy> they design for tem
[17:09:03] <crutchy> engineers assume thhere will be faults... lots of them
[17:09:12] <crutchy> that's why they make things so big
[17:09:19] <crutchy> (and expensive, unfortunately)
[17:09:22] <michealpwalls> Just like computer scientists design for them.. Yet we still end up with large, complex systems coming crashing down due to a single input fault hehe
[17:09:36] <crutchy> not really the same thhough
[17:09:43] <michealpwalls> I think it is, honestly
[17:09:45] <michealpwalls> hehe
[17:10:08] <crutchy> the wtc had some unique features, but the principles were the same
[17:10:16] <michealpwalls> I see the world trade towers as a large complex system.. 1 with input (A plane) it cascaded into the entire system faulting.
[17:10:22] <michealpwalls> Even though they *did* design against that fault ^
[17:10:33] <michealpwalls> They failed to see how it could cascade as rapidly as it did..
[17:10:38] <michealpwalls> And so their design was inadequate.
[17:11:04] <crutchy> so what about all the other tall steel framed towers?
[17:11:19] <michealpwalls> You mean the ones that *don't* share the design of the WTC?
[17:11:24] <crutchy> many do
[17:11:29] <michealpwalls> WTC had a "revolutionary" design, according to th architect...
[17:11:31] <crutchy> many are even less conservative
[17:11:46] <crutchy> lol architects are an engineer's pain in the arse
[17:12:25] <michealpwalls> Where all pillars are pushed to the outter boundary of the structure to maximize floor space, rather than all through-out the structure (Thus causing unsighlty pillars in the floor space)
[17:12:28] <crutchy> it was probably stronger thhan a lot of other designs
[17:12:54] <michealpwalls> Under normal load, sure ^
[17:12:55] <michealpwalls> hehehe
[17:13:09] <michealpwalls> But under extraordinary load, the math diverged from the estimation...
[17:13:13] <michealpwalls> And the towers collapsed hehe
[17:13:32] <crutchy> well they did collapse
[17:14:05] <crutchy> but i don't think they collapsed just by the weight of the floors above
[17:14:16] <michealpwalls> Well see, wait a second
[17:14:17] <crutchy> the pancake theory is a bunch of crock
[17:14:34] <michealpwalls> *that's* what makes the Byzantine Fault Tolerance problem so hard! That's the key mistake. You have to stop looking at the individual fault
[17:14:53] <michealpwalls> It is *not* just weight, it's all of th faults working *together* as a system within the system... hehe
[17:14:57] <michealpwalls> That's the only way to see it
[17:15:10] <crutchy> what else was there?
[17:15:36] <michealpwalls> amagad there's hundreds and hundreds of pages in the 9/11 report that lists the small, individual faults..
[17:15:43] <michealpwalls> They *all* played a role.. Right down to a water pressure problem
[17:15:51] <michealpwalls> Which caused all fire suppression systems to have no effect at all
[17:16:06] <crutchy> i can appreciate that the impact loads on a floor would cause a chain reaction in thhe floors below, but not as fast
[17:16:18] <michealpwalls> To the fire retardant coating being stripped off the metal in the first split seconds of the impact... To the fuel accelerating the fire
[17:16:18] <crutchy> each floor would provide at least some resistance to the collapse
[17:16:49] <michealpwalls> It wasn't all that fast, what to do you mean? The building stood strong for over an hour after the plane struck it
[17:17:00] <crutchy> the speeed of the collapse i mean
[17:17:11] <michealpwalls> It was a slow, progressive piling up of faults until the entire system just collapsed and the collapse accelerated as it happened
[17:17:30] <crutchy> it collapsed very fast
[17:17:32] <michealpwalls> So it started to collapse, and due to the force rising exponentially, the longer it collapsed the faster it collapsed (If that makes any sense?)
[17:17:41] <crutchy> no it doesn;t
[17:17:54] <crutchy> because there were 80 odd floors in the way
[17:18:33] <michealpwalls> The resistance would have only been in the top 5 no? Once 5 floors are falling th force is so high that the rest wouldn't be able to even slow it down
[17:18:41] <michealpwalls> And you can see that in video footage
[17:18:52] <crutchy> every floor must be forced to failure
[17:19:06] <michealpwalls> The *first* floor collapsed onto the floor below it.. You can se it.. Then *that* floor collapses... And by the 3rd floor the whole top mass is comming down without resistance..
[17:19:11] <michealpwalls> The math model is: F=ma..
[17:19:13] <crutchy> and you're talking floors unaffected by fire
[17:19:42] <crutchy> but each floor slows the process down
[17:20:05] <michealpwalls> Force is equal to Mass * Acceleration. Mass is the weight of the floor. Once combined with floor #2 the mass doubles, and therefor the F increases by an exponential factor ((m*2)*acceleration) as the mass increases force, Acceleration increases..
[17:20:10] <michealpwalls> Which *further* increases force
[17:20:34] <crutchy> the bottom of a building is much stronger than the top for that very reason
[17:21:20] <michealpwalls> It's an unstoppable force, it's a mathematical certainty... By the time the it all reached the stronger floors at the bottom, the mass and acceleration were probably astronomical numbers man :/
[17:21:34] <crutchy> you thinking the pancake theory
[17:21:39] <michealpwalls> Basically yes
[17:21:42] <crutchy> what about the core columns?
[17:21:55] <michealpwalls> They stood tall near the bottom, protruding from the heap of metal
[17:22:00] <michealpwalls> That's why they crews had to cut them down
[17:22:02] <michealpwalls> They stood very tall
[17:22:13] <crutchy> what brought them down?
[17:22:18] <crutchy> the ones above
[17:22:25] <michealpwalls> They didn't come down. Some bent over due to wait after everything fell below it, the remainders were cut by clean-up/recovery crews
[17:22:33] <michealpwalls> *that* cutting led to molten pools of metal
[17:22:35] <michealpwalls> That's well documented ^
[17:22:51] <crutchy> the remaining columns stood maybe 10 floors
[17:23:03] <crutchy> what happened to the 90 floors above?
[17:23:13] <michealpwalls> Think about it, you probably understand it much better than I do. The pillars without the structure around them would teder under their own weight and bend no?
[17:23:18] <michealpwalls> They would eventually come down after the floors went down
[17:23:28] <crutchy> they buckle
[17:23:31] <crutchy> no
[17:23:31] <michealpwalls> Yea
[17:23:39] <crutchy> there were big beams connecting them
[17:23:43] <crutchy> independent of the floors
[17:23:50] <michealpwalls> At that point, I can only guess... At that point it's a massive cloud of dust I can't see anything hehehe
[17:24:04] <michealpwalls> But before that, you can clearly see floors fall *below* their pillars, leaving pillar standing above it
[17:24:11] <michealpwalls> But the dust kicke dup and you can't see anything after that really
[17:24:30] <crutchy> that's another thing
[17:24:39] <crutchy> where the hell did all the dust come from?
[17:24:49] <michealpwalls> In fact... To answer your question now that I remember..
[17:24:50] <crutchy> i mean concrete doesn;t normally fail like that either
[17:24:59] <michealpwalls> ONE of those massive pillars from way up high fell on tower #7
[17:25:06] <crutchy> why do i keep pressing ; instead of ' lol
[17:25:06] <michealpwalls> and ripped through it, setting it on fire
[17:25:14] <michealpwalls> hehe
[17:25:24] <crutchy> a column set a building on fire?
[17:25:26] <crutchy> lol
[17:25:35] <crutchy> i doubt it was the column
[17:25:37] <michealpwalls> After it was drenched in fuel and on fire, yea
[17:25:49] <crutchy> maybe
[17:25:50] <michealpwalls> It wasn't the column burning, it was the fuel coating it.. hehe
[17:26:01] <michealpwalls> That's one of the funny variables you have to consider :/
[17:26:08] <crutchy> i personally doubt that jet fuel would burn for more than a few minutes
[17:26:09] <michealpwalls> There was things literally *dripping* in fuel :/
[17:26:27] <crutchy> you know kerosene is used as rocket fuel
[17:26:34] <crutchy> that's how quick it burns
[17:27:00] <crutchy> anyway
[17:27:05] <crutchy> it just didn't look right
[17:27:44] <crutchy> a demolition company would be hard pressed to get a building like that to come down like it did
[17:27:54] <crutchy> with conventional explosives
[17:29:29] <crutchy> i could imagine localized failures due to floor collapses, but eventually the loads would be distributed enough for the structure below to take it
[17:29:46] <crutchy> even if they were above and beyond what the members were designed for
[17:29:56] <crutchy> and connections :-P
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[17:31:37] <crutchy> it would be very doubtful that even an entire floor collapsing all at once would cause catastrophic failure all the way to the bottom of the building, and i doubt an entire floor would collapse entirely at once
[17:32:23] <crutchy> the sections near the hole and maybe in the worst fire affected areas would fail first, dragging other stuff behind it
[17:32:43] <michealpwalls> I dont' think it was anywhere near the bottom, though
[17:33:03] <crutchy> it shouldn't have failed more than 3 or 4 floors
[17:33:06] <crutchy> if any
[17:33:10] <michealpwalls> Oh
[17:34:29] <crutchy> floors in an office building are usually designed for 5+ kpa live (so factored by 1.5)
[17:34:50] <crutchy> the wtc was prolly higher
[17:35:12] <michealpwalls> I think it helps to ask these kinds of questions, though crutchy: Who benefits from the American people losing trust in their government? From destroying their will to continue down the path they are on?
[17:35:20] <crutchy> 750 kg per m2
[17:35:36] <michealpwalls> Who *really* benefits from 9/11? It's quite obviously *not* the U.S government :/
[17:35:47] <crutchy> well, maybe not in hindsight
[17:35:57] <crutchy> but i doubt it was the "us government"
[17:36:22] <crutchy> cos most of the us government is just regular people
[17:36:49] <michealpwalls> If anything, a bunch of nutcase Libertarians are the only ones to benefit.. As the U.S government's collapse would mean the rise of "corporate america" to replace it...
[17:36:54] <crutchy> lol
[17:37:03] <michealpwalls> Seriously though
[17:37:14] <crutchy> i really think you misunderstand what ron paul stoof for
[17:37:18] <michealpwalls> Think about it in terms of who benefits, who gets rich and powerful and you generally wind up finding the culprit :P
[17:37:18] <crutchy> *stood
[17:37:30] <michealpwalls> Perhaps
[17:37:31] <michealpwalls> LOL
[17:37:35] <crutchy> the rich guy is always the target
[17:38:01] <crutchy> does anyone ask why while their helping him become rich to begin with though?
[17:38:41] <crutchy> everyone wants more money, but they guy who has money is evil
[17:38:59] <crutchy> kinda silly
[17:39:14] <michealpwalls> That's not what I meant at all.. I meant who gets rich as a direct result of the action you'd like to investigate...
[17:39:21] <michealpwalls> Is almost always the cause of the action.
[17:39:32] <crutchy> probably
[17:39:39] <michealpwalls> If you look at 9/11 in those simple goggles...
[17:39:40] <crutchy> halliburton comes to mind
[17:39:50] <michealpwalls> You see the U.S is getting their ass kicked after 9/11 in terms of Money and Power...
[17:39:56] <crutchy> and lockheed martin
[17:40:03] <crutchy> boeing
[17:40:14] <michealpwalls> Right.. Corporate America.
[17:40:17] <crutchy> anyone who sells military hardware
[17:40:21] <crutchy> no
[17:40:26] <michealpwalls> Assuming that's true, I mean ^
[17:40:29] <crutchy> just the arms manufacturers
[17:40:49] <crutchy> military industrial complex
[17:40:54] <michealpwalls> Those arms manufacturers also depend on the Government..
[17:40:56] <michealpwalls> And the Status Quo...
[17:40:59] <crutchy> the very same one ron paul was fighting against
[17:40:59] <michealpwalls> They wouldn't want to change it
[17:41:08] <michealpwalls> By bankrupting the very government they makes them rich and powerful..
[17:41:12] <michealpwalls> Think about how silly that sounds
[17:41:23] <crutchy> the government has a printing press
[17:41:29] <crutchy> that's all they care about
[17:41:44] <crutchy> taxpayers be damned
[17:41:51] <crutchy> debt debt debt
[17:42:20] <crutchy> the us government won't go bankrupt in the normal sense
[17:42:26] <michealpwalls> It still makes no strategic/logical sense though. Just drag out what you said a bit further though. So lets do a little thought experiment..
[17:42:41] <crutchy> it will inflate till the us dollar doesn't buy anything... long after the real benefactors have sold out
[17:43:14] <michealpwalls> The military industrial complex orchastrates a 'false flag' attack. This attack leads to the complete erosion of trust in the government, threatening a potential decline / collapse in the government..
[17:43:24] <michealpwalls> The government in decline can no longer afford to pay as much into the industrial complex
[17:43:26] <michealpwalls> and so it contracts.
[17:43:32] <michealpwalls> What th fuck sense did that plan make?
[17:43:32] <crutchy> that's a false assumption though
[17:43:33] <michealpwalls> Seriously?
[17:43:40] <crutchy> what happened after 9/11?
[17:43:49] <crutchy> the government gained huge amounts of power
[17:43:52] <michealpwalls> The economy went into free-fall in North America...
[17:43:53] <crutchy> patroit act
[17:44:03] <michealpwalls> The Government lost massive amounts of trust and continues to lost trust...
[17:44:05] <crutchy> lol no it didn;t
[17:44:18] <crutchy> 2001-2007 was a bubble economy
[17:44:25] <crutchy> everyone was 'getting rich'
[17:45:13] <crutchy> after 9/11 americans forgot how to save
[17:45:24] <crutchy> they bought things they couldn;t afford
[17:45:30] <crutchy> like crazy people
[17:45:50] <crutchy> peter schiff saw 2008 coming in 2001
[17:46:08] <crutchy> after the fed's reaction to the nasdaq bubble collapse
[17:46:14] <crutchy> print print print
[17:46:46] <crutchy> after 9/11, everyone looked to the government for 'security'
[17:47:01] <crutchy> and played right into the military industrial complex's hands
[17:47:39] <michealpwalls> That's not at all what happened, though.. If anything public trust has been eroded to levels comparable to Vietnam :/
[17:48:01] <crutchy> only after the 2003-2005 iraq saga
[17:48:06] <crutchy> and the 2008 financial crisis
[17:49:04] <michealpwalls> The fact that the government *reacted* to 9/11 doesn't indicate much. A lot of what it did was no-brainer stuff to deal with the perceived threat.
[17:49:15] <michealpwalls> We're seeing the same things but making completely differetn conclusions heehee!
[17:49:23] <michealpwalls> I see this is extremely bad for th government, but you see it as what they wanted :/
[17:49:26] <crutchy> it reacted to commission a lot of weapons
[17:49:44] <michealpwalls> Of course it did.. It felt attacked :/
[17:49:45] <crutchy> i see it as what lockheeed martin and boeing wanted
[17:49:56] <crutchy> and halliburton
[17:49:59] <crutchy> etc
[17:50:09] <michealpwalls> The economy was shaken to th point that stock markets had to be forced shut for days to stop the massive contraction that was inevitable
[17:50:17] <michealpwalls> The government weathered th storm at their own expense...
[17:50:17] <crutchy> when?
[17:50:22] <michealpwalls> Directly after 9/11
[17:50:39] <michealpwalls> The very day it happened, markets were shut in North America to stop the contraction of our economy...
[17:50:52] <crutchy> well i guess the buildings housing the financial exchanges had been damaged
[17:50:56] <crutchy> seems pretty reasonable
[17:51:14] <michealpwalls> Indeed
[17:51:17] <michealpwalls> I see it all as very connected
[17:51:21] <michealpwalls> :/
[17:51:44] <crutchy> lol now you're starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist
[17:51:54] <michealpwalls> LMAO not at all
[17:52:18] <michealpwalls> 9/11 was the input jam that put our system into a state of unpredictale execution. We're living out a flow that is not documented in the manual :)
[17:52:28] <crutchy> not really
[17:52:37] <crutchy> 9/11 was a couple of buildings collapsing
[17:52:38] <michealpwalls> Leading to the financial troubles that tipped in 2008 and continue to make doing business here less than trivial
[17:52:42] <michealpwalls> LMAO crutchy
[17:52:43] <crutchy> the reaction was manufactured
[17:52:49] <michealpwalls> That's crazytalk
[17:52:51] <michealpwalls> lol
[17:53:03] <crutchy> what's crazy is what your government did afterwards
[17:53:15] <crutchy> wmd's in iraq
[17:53:17] <michealpwalls> Canada?
[17:53:19] <michealpwalls> Oh the U.S
[17:53:24] <crutchy> oh yeah sorry
[17:53:26] <crutchy> lol
[17:53:26] <michealpwalls> Well, I didn't see that as crazy...
[17:53:28] <crutchy> keep forgetting
[17:53:31] <michealpwalls> I mean it made a lot of sense.
[17:53:39] <crutchy> no it didn't make any sense
[17:53:41] <crutchy> at all
[17:53:48] <michealpwalls> I think the PR campaign about Iraq was a major failure though :/
[17:53:50] <crutchy> you don;t go bombing another country on a hunch
[17:53:58] <crutchy> that is evil
[17:54:02] <michealpwalls> Well, there was no hunch about the oil reserves of Iraq...
[17:54:15] <crutchy> that's one of the real reasons for it
[17:54:32] <michealpwalls> There was no hunch about our *need* for oil to continue on the unsustainable path we're on (Trying to maintain our economic system)
[17:54:50] <michealpwalls> Jesus, man.. A bunch of crazies flew planes in our *TRADE* centers..
[17:54:56] <michealpwalls> Not a parking lot.. The *hub* of North American trade.
[17:54:59] <crutchy> the USA *needs* the world to keep trading in dollars. that is all
[17:55:01] <michealpwalls> Don't you see th connection? LOL!
[17:55:07] <crutchy> and oil is the commodity of the day
[17:55:08] <michealpwalls> Of course they do!
[17:55:29] <michealpwalls> This is an economy of *trust*; if the people lose trust in the U.S dollar th dollar loses it's value and our entire way of life grinds to a brutal, devestating hault..
[17:55:32] <michealpwalls> You're okay with that, LMAO?!
[17:55:43] <crutchy> i can do nothing to stop it
[17:55:46] <michealpwalls> Sure you can
[17:55:49] <crutchy> no i cant
[17:55:52] <michealpwalls> Support the Empire and stop with the 9/11 Truther bs.
[17:55:53] <michealpwalls> :)
[17:56:00] <crutchy> lol
[17:56:03] <michealpwalls> hehehe
[17:56:07] <michealpwalls> Sorry, I couldn't help myself :)
[17:56:08] <crutchy> i'm just a lowly engineer
[17:56:39] <michealpwalls> Honestly though, I'm right there with you. I'm just a programmer, trying to feed my family. haha. I focus on my family and myself and let the Empire worry about everything else :)
[17:56:57] <crutchy> the fall of america will affect us all though
[17:57:05] <michealpwalls> That's why you should support it.
[17:57:08] <crutchy> a caged animal is most voilent
[17:57:12] <michealpwalls> The American Empire, I mean, not the fall of it.
[17:57:16] <michealpwalls> :)
[17:57:17] <crutchy> it will happen regardless
[17:57:26] <crutchy> america has sealed its own fate
[17:57:38] <crutchy> i believe the dollar will eventually be inflated
[17:57:39] <michealpwalls> It seems to be the popular opinion. Like TheMightyBuzzard said earlier... Freedom to choose slavery :)
[17:57:45] <michealpwalls> hehehe
[17:57:49] <crutchy> i guess
[17:58:02] <crutchy> i don't think americans choose it though
[17:58:11] <crutchy> i think they have it thrust upon them
[17:58:15] <michealpwalls> I think... The American Republic has been the single most powerful driving force for human development. It would be a dark page of human history if it collapsed :/
[17:58:19] <michealpwalls> In my opinion ^
[17:58:32] <crutchy> it woould be tragicc
[17:58:33] <michealpwalls> Just like Rome..
[17:58:39] <michealpwalls> Unbelievable tragedy :/
[17:59:06] <crutchy> all will not be lost
[17:59:21] <michealpwalls> Not lost, no.. But progress will surely hault and much development will be lost.
[17:59:26] <michealpwalls> *just like* the Dark Ages following Rome
[17:59:33] <crutchy> i don't think so
[17:59:39] <crutchy> china will take over
[17:59:48] <crutchy> it will be an asian century
[18:00:12] <crutchy> china is basically supporting america's sorry ass already anyway
[18:00:17] <michealpwalls> people went form living in *heated* brick homes, with Democracy, Public Welfare and Public Works (Washrooms, Bathing Houses, clean drinking water) and literal populace...
[18:00:29] <michealpwalls> To living in fucking mud huts, with a kind and queen, worshiping "god" (dull)
[18:00:31] <michealpwalls> Fucking disaster
[18:00:48] <crutchy> maybe that was the case in the roman empire
[18:00:55] <crutchy> and it may be the case in the US for a while
[18:01:04] <crutchy> well, its already happening to some extent
[18:01:11] <michealpwalls> It went that way for over 2k years after Rome collapsed.. Aso nobody could read the Roman Literature, as everything Roman must go don't you know, including the dirty Roman language of Latin.
[18:01:12] <crutchy> but the rest of the world will live on
[18:01:25] <michealpwalls> ... But with Latin, went a *world* of knowledge... That only the Churches had access to..
[18:01:31] <crutchy> china still flourished during the fall of the roman empire
[18:01:33] <crutchy> i think
[18:01:47] <michealpwalls> And they kept it in their control for over 2k years while man floundered again as slaves without the ability to even read or write.
[18:02:10] <crutchy> the world has copies of american knowledge
[18:02:26] <crutchy> and many of its valuable corporations have bailed already
[18:02:27] <michealpwalls> Just like the world (Read: Churches..) had copies of Roman knowledge..But that knowledge was locked away behind a wall of Latin.
[18:02:42] <michealpwalls> If you can't read Latin, how can you gain the Roman knowledge? Nobody would teach you Latin, either..
[18:02:46] <crutchy> they needed an internet of things back then
[18:02:58] <michealpwalls> 'cause they knew how dangerous that Roman information was... Ideas like Democracy, Liberty and Freedom.
[18:03:13] <crutchy> ooh libertarianism
[18:03:16] <crutchy> yeah that's evil
[18:03:29] <michealpwalls> Indeed. Without a government to protect them, they're only dreams :)
[18:03:34] <michealpwalls> hehehehe
[18:03:45] <crutchy> governments form naturally
[18:04:10] <crutchy> anarchy would be difficult to sustain long term even if you tried
[18:04:12] <michealpwalls> In the absence of government though, you get things like Churches, Warlords and Slavery :/
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[18:04:21] <crutchy> they are forms of government
[18:04:26] <michealpwalls> Terrible ones, IMHO
[18:04:30] <crutchy> maybe
[18:04:40] <crutchy> but what the USA has now wouldn't be far from those
[18:04:53] <crutchy> china has more caitalism than america
[18:05:02] <crutchy> capitalism is what made america great
[18:05:04] <michealpwalls> Somalia is an example of Warlordism. Also the Central Great Lakes region of Africa.. Warlordism and Slavery. Chuch rule is exemplified in the Dark Ages, truely :/
[18:05:10] <michealpwalls> People enslaved by ignorance...
[18:05:15] <michealpwalls> Slaves to superstition :)
[18:05:25] <crutchy> i'm a slave to my missus
[18:05:30] <michealpwalls> hehe
[18:05:44] <crutchy> not in *that* way lol
[18:05:47] <michealpwalls> haha
[18:05:51] <michealpwalls> Suuuure :)
[18:06:45] <crutchy> i think its human nature that we always need what someone else has, and that turns us into slaves
[18:07:17] <crutchy> only the extent varies
[18:07:32] <michealpwalls> I think a Republic Democracy upholding a Capitalist society is about as good as we have ever gotten, though. I think you cannot have one without the other..
[18:07:44] <crutchy> yes
[18:07:50] <crutchy> very true
[18:07:54] <michealpwalls> You cannot have a Republican form of Democracy without Capitalism.. You cannot really have Capitalism without a Republican form of Government to protect it from the crazies
[18:08:03] <crutchy> the USA is losing capitalism though
[18:08:16] <michealpwalls> So on and so forth. That's why I'm so passionately in favour of the U.S Republic. It *is* flawed, of course it is... There *is* corruption there's no denying that..
[18:08:16] <crutchy> its going offshore
[18:08:23] <michealpwalls> But jesus, man.. When you consider the alternatives is is a Utopia!
[18:08:24] <michealpwalls> :/
[18:08:39] <crutchy> the USA isn't really a capitalist republic nowadays
[18:08:59] <crutchy> its more socialist oligarchy
[18:09:20] <michealpwalls> Sure you can argue that due to the unfair selection of "winners" and the total disregard for "sink or swim" theory, it's getting to be something ugly :/
[18:09:32] <michealpwalls> But it's still a workable system. It can still be brought back to it's true path..
[18:09:41] <michealpwalls> To abandon it would be the worste possible choice IMHO
[18:09:49] <crutchy> as much as socialists hate big business, its big business that pay wages and taxes
[18:09:55] <crutchy> big businesses make stuff to export
[18:09:59] <michealpwalls> Indeed ^
[18:10:17] <crutchy> america is losing its export base
[18:10:27] <michealpwalls> That's why you cannot have Republic Democracy without Capitalism. You are not free if you are so poor you cannot feed yourself... Of you *depend* on the government to feed you, that is not free.
[18:10:27] <crutchy> it just exports paper money :-(
[18:10:33] <michealpwalls> So it goes hand-in-hand of course..
[18:10:52] <michealpwalls> You need private enterprise to empower people and turn a bad trait (greed) into a driving force for change (Profit motive...)
[18:11:06] <crutchy> yes
[18:11:08] <michealpwalls> ... But you *need* a strong Republican government to check those profit motives...
[18:11:10] <crutchy> profit is good
[18:11:18] <crutchy> it is motivation to give customers what they want
[18:11:30] <michealpwalls> Less then run out of control and take over everything, stripping people of their Liberty (Robber Barons of the early American experiment with Republicanism)
[18:11:58] <crutchy> well, i guess history is full of lessons
[18:12:21] <crutchy> one thing history has shown repeatedly though
[18:12:26] <crutchy> is that socialism doesn;t work
[18:12:57] <crutchy> people must exercise their greedy instinctual nature
[18:13:03] <crutchy> else they just won't give a toss
[18:13:06] <michealpwalls> Socialism and Communism are retarded IMHO hehe
[18:13:44] <michealpwalls> Socialism makes a whole lot more sense, as it at least *accepts* the existence of human greed and tries to use it to incentivise hard work..
[18:13:54] <michealpwalls> However it's still short-sighted in that there will be government employees with supreme power..
[18:13:58] <crutchy> capitalism you mean
[18:13:58] <michealpwalls> And that's foolish.
[18:14:08] <michealpwalls> No, Socialism is Communism with incentives, basically.
[18:14:41] <michealpwalls> It's the simplest way to explain the idealogy. Communism is "Everyone works to their ability and gets what they need"; Socialism is everyone gets a baseline that they need and then they can further *earn* more through hard work.
[18:14:53] <michealpwalls> However.. There's ultimately *somebody* choosing who works hard, who doesn't and who gets what and who doesn't.. That's the flaw.
[18:15:29] <michealpwalls> So once corruption sets it, the whole system is fucked (Socialism) which is exactly what has happened in China.. Social Democracy is a joke.
[18:15:59] <michealpwalls> You can't try to mix systems the way they have, all they have done is hide the fact that a bunch of Oligarchs run the country (China)
[18:16:36] <crutchy> china is full of monopolies
[18:16:45] <michealpwalls> State Run enterprises, you mean?
[18:16:53] <crutchy> those too
[18:16:58] <crutchy> very similar to america
[18:17:11] <crutchy> big companies in bed with government
[18:17:28] <crutchy> they call them 'state run enterprises'
[18:17:28] <michealpwalls> Yea, well that's what I mean about Socialism.. It's really silly. Instead of private corporations holding monopolies.. You have the government running monopolies directly :/
[18:17:41] <michealpwalls> It's much worse
[18:17:58] <crutchy> governments can't organise a blowjob in a brothel
[18:18:07] <michealpwalls> At least in a true Republican Democracy, like the U.S, the people can demand that the government break up monopolies. See AT&T for example of this.
[18:18:33] <crutchy> michealpwalls: s/the U.S/former U.S/
[18:18:33] <SedBot> <crutchy> <michealpwalls> At least in a true Republican Democracy, like former U.S, the people can demand that the government break up monopolies. See AT&T for example of this.
[18:18:38] <michealpwalls> They broke up AT&T and legislated that AT&T must become 5 companies, with seperate boards and individuals cannot be on more than one board at a time
[18:18:49] <michealpwalls> Thus revitalizing th competition
[18:18:52] <crutchy> that's bad though
[18:18:55] <michealpwalls> What?!
[18:19:21] <crutchy> what they should have done was stop helping AT&T monopolize the industry
[18:19:28] <michealpwalls> Man that was such a necessary act to revitalize the stagnant telecommunications industry hehe. AT&T had a complete and total monopoly over th entire telecom infrastructure :/
[18:19:34] <michealpwalls> It was too late..
[18:19:38] <michealpwalls> It was already done.
[18:19:52] <crutchy> but it sets a bad precedent
[18:20:04] <michealpwalls> Once they own every square inch of the infrastructure, competition is impossible...
[18:20:13] <crutchy> it gives rise to the lobbyist
[18:20:41] <michealpwalls> The situation repeated here in Canada recently
[18:20:42] <crutchy> we had a government owned telco in australia till a few years ago
[18:20:43] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - "Donors" Bankroll FCC Lobby Group - http://sylnt.us - people-paying-pipers-pick-preferred-program
[18:20:47] <crutchy> actually more than a decade ago
[18:20:52] <crutchy> testra
[18:20:59] <michealpwalls> We have our "AT&T" in the form of 2 companies who signed a partnership ("Non-Competition Agreement", they call it)
[18:20:59] <crutchy> the government has sold most of it
[18:21:21] <crutchy> telstra is kind of still in a monopoly position to some extent
[18:21:29] <crutchy> but the government doesn't subsidise it
[18:21:37] <michealpwalls> Meaning, the 2 of them, owned the entire country's telecommunications infrastructure. Not even the largest company in the U.S industry could do anything about it, it was not economically viable...
[18:21:40] <michealpwalls> Think about it this way...
[18:21:43] <crutchy> so competition from big overseas companies come in
[18:21:54] <crutchy> and technology changes to mobile
[18:21:56] <crutchy> etc
[18:22:04] <michealpwalls> Those 2 companies.. In order to move into Canada you have to initialy spend *billions* to build your own infrastructure. That's a dead-end. No company would bet so high...
[18:22:07] <michealpwalls> It's too risky..
[18:22:18] <crutchy> overseas companies might
[18:22:31] <michealpwalls> That's why the 2 could not be stopped without government intervention (Recently the government forced them to rent their infrastructure to foreign companies)
[18:22:34] <crutchy> they would certainly try if they had an even playing field
[18:22:39] <michealpwalls> To let foreign companies expand here, to bring competition back
[18:22:51] <crutchy> yeah i don't like government forcing companies like that
[18:23:05] <michealpwalls> That's the problem.. Canada is fucking *massive* with only 30 million people.. The costs to rig this country with cables and poles far exceeds revenue of 30 million customers..
[18:23:08] <crutchy> give them money in one hand and force them to change the way they do business with the other
[18:23:16] <crutchy> satellites
[18:23:17] <michealpwalls> Without government, it just wouldn't happen. You're talking make-believe man...
[18:23:19] <michealpwalls> The math doesnt' work out
[18:23:22] <crutchy> no im not
[18:23:38] <crutchy> optus is the only telecom company in australia with its own satellites
[18:23:43] <crutchy> its owned by singtel
[18:23:48] <crutchy> (not telstra)
[18:24:02] <crutchy> australia is very similar to canada in that respect
[18:24:18] <crutchy> very large landmass with not so many people
[18:24:20] <michealpwalls> Yea
[18:24:32] <michealpwalls> It makes foreign investment without government incentive dreamy :
[18:24:33] <michealpwalls> :/
[18:24:52] <crutchy> if the government stops funding the monopoly and allows competition, competition will come
[18:25:02] <michealpwalls> Nobody would do it here, LOL. It's not worth the *initial* investment to any of them. There is *still* risk that the "Big 2" just drop their rates and make their investment fail...
[18:25:14] <crutchy> sattellites are already hovering over you
[18:25:15] <michealpwalls> Then once the foreign entity leaves, the "Big 2" buy up their failed work..
[18:25:18] <crutchy> ready for your signal
[18:25:28] <michealpwalls> It's a parasite man, LMAO how can you imagine it to break without intervention honestly? :/
[18:25:34] <michealpwalls> Who *owns* those satellites?
[18:25:45] <crutchy> your government would be the only thing stopping foreign inventment
[18:25:50] <crutchy> who cares
[18:25:55] <crutchy> who owns the satellites
[18:26:00] <crutchy> the point is you wanna use them
[18:26:15] <crutchy> at the lowest possible price
[18:26:57] <crutchy> government intervention *always* leads to price increases, because governments use force reducing the need for companies to compete on their own merits
[18:27:26] <michealpwalls> That's far too philosophical in my opinion.
[18:27:35] <crutchy> it works
[18:28:08] <crutchy> henry ford paid his workers well, but it wasn't cos he was forced to
[18:28:20] <crutchy> he wanted his employees to be able to afford to buy his cars
[18:28:31] <crutchy> and get the wages he spent on them back again
[18:28:46] <crutchy> makes perfect sense
[18:29:25] <crutchy> corporations aren't evil on their own
[18:29:31] <crutchy> governments make them evil
[18:30:07] <crutchy> apple is huge, but at least their onnly evil streak seems to be their patent portfolio... handed out by government
[18:30:35] <crutchy> foxconn is evil though i guess
[18:30:48] <crutchy> prolly one of those state sponsored thingys in china
[18:31:04] <michealpwalls> "To forestall union activity, Ford promoted Harry Bennett, a former Navy boxer, to head the Service Department. Bennett employed various intimidation tactics to squash union organizing.[34] The most famous incident, on May 26, 1937, involved Bennett's security men beating with clubs UAW representatives, including Walter Reuther."
[18:31:17] <michealpwalls> Quick search on Henry Ford + Labour
[18:31:37] <michealpwalls> Doesn't sound all that great from what you said, crutchy. That's the funny thing about revising history, though.
[18:31:38] <crutchy> unions are bullies that deserve bully tactice in return imho
[18:31:38] <michealpwalls> :)
[18:32:09] <crutchy> lol you're getting your history lesson from a single paragraph in wikipedia
[18:32:13] <crutchy> dude, read more
[18:32:13] <michealpwalls> "While Bennett's men were beating the UAW representatives, the supervising police chief on the scene was Carl Brooks, an alumnus of Bennett’s Service Department, and [Brooks] "did not give orders to intervene."[36] The incident became known as The Battle of the Overpass."
[18:32:26] <michealpwalls> There's another paragraph? LMAO corrupted police cheifs LOL
[18:32:46] <crutchy> history is littered with incidents
[18:33:27] <crutchy> i'm sure you could google union violence also and come up with a bunch of incidents of unions putting companies out of business
[18:34:12] <michealpwalls> Well, the way you said that was just too picture-perfect is all..
[18:34:41] <crutchy> what i said wasn't revisionist history though
[18:34:49] <michealpwalls> Another paragraph, taht implies it was high-competition that inspired the $5 per hour wage, the benefit of workers buying Ford products was a bonus...
[18:34:52] <michealpwalls> "Detroit was already a high-wage city, but competitors were forced to raise wages or lose their best workers."
[18:35:00] <michealpwalls> It's that simple, I think ^
[18:35:06] <crutchy> you can't ignore all the good that henry ford did with some union thuggery
[18:35:18] <michealpwalls> If Ford *wanted* workers, he had to attract them with a competitive wage. That's competition..
[18:35:27] <crutchy> yes
[18:35:41] <crutchy> he *needed* them
[18:35:46] <crutchy> no workers, no ford
[18:35:47] <michealpwalls> crutchy: I don't believe violence and intimidation should be used against your workers.. So no, I do not agree.
[18:35:58] <crutchy> its generally not
[18:36:00] <michealpwalls> He did no "good" at all. He was a fucking rich thug that abused his workers..
[18:36:11] <crutchy> bullying workers is bad for business
[18:36:24] <crutchy> now who's revisionist
[18:36:46] <michealpwalls> But you just said: "you can't ignore all the good that henry ford did with some union thuggery"
[18:36:50] <michealpwalls> I fundamentally disagree.
[18:36:51] <crutchy> you take one incident off wikipedia and not you're calling him a "rich thug who beats his workers"
[18:36:57] <michealpwalls> Not sure where we diverged hehe
[18:37:23] <crutchy> you forgot the bit where he paid his workers well
[18:37:38] <michealpwalls> No I didn't... Quoted that for what it was.
[18:37:40] <michealpwalls> Basic competition.
[18:37:47] <michealpwalls> He had no choice, if he wanted to attract the best workers.
[18:38:01] <crutchy> and that's bbad for the workers how?
[18:38:03] <michealpwalls> He then hired a former Navy boxer to organize and run a campaign of terror against those same workers...
[18:38:11] <michealpwalls> So what did *you* miss about that? hehe
[18:38:27] <crutchy> yeah cos he needed them so much he thought it would be good to beat the crap out of them
[18:38:37] <michealpwalls> Repeatedly beating them up and threatening them... Hiring the police cheif to turn a blind eye to their complaints..
[18:38:47] <michealpwalls> But oh poor Hnrey he paid a whopping $5 per hour!
[18:38:50] <crutchy> complaints about being paid well obviously
[18:38:55] <michealpwalls> LOL I'm sorry but that's so 1-sided it's really not fair.
[18:39:09] <crutchy> $5/hr a century ago was a fortune
[18:39:45] <crutchy> you can thank people like ben bernanke for the value of your money today
[18:39:55] <crutchy> well, not your money
[18:39:55] <michealpwalls> hehe
[18:39:58] <crutchy> the US sollar
[18:40:02] <crutchy> *dollar
[18:40:04] <michealpwalls> Our money's about as useless really :(
[18:40:05] <michealpwalls> LOL
[18:40:52] <crutchy> its kinda ironic but our central bank is trying its hardest to devalue our currency
[18:41:15] <michealpwalls> hehe
[18:41:36] <crutchy> for good reason though
[18:41:45] <crutchy> resource economies depend on exports
[18:41:58] <crutchy> which depend on foreign demand
[18:42:15] <crutchy> (in our case mostly china)
[18:42:39] <crutchy> that's why we now trade directly with china without the US dollar
[18:43:08] <crutchy> but if the aussie is worth less, it makes our exports cheaper for foreign customers
[18:53:57] <michealpwalls> classic literature: https://archive.org
[18:53:59] <michealpwalls> LMAO
[18:55:49] <michealpwalls> It's a low-blow, I know. I just stumbled upon it and found it quite interesting.
[18:55:51] <crutchy> sounds riveting
[18:56:02] <michealpwalls> To be fair, that was a very odd time in history :/
[18:56:08] <michealpwalls> The 1920s and 1930s hehe
[18:56:40] <crutchy> did you know there was a big crash in the NYSE in the 1920s?
[18:56:52] <michealpwalls> (rofl) yes, I heard something about that.
[18:56:57] <michealpwalls> I think they called it the 'Great Depression'
[18:57:10] <crutchy> i mean early 1920s
[18:57:19] <michealpwalls> Oh, I thought you were being sarcastic haha
[18:57:31] <crutchy> the crash was bigger than the one that started the great depression
[18:57:49] <crutchy> 21 kinda rings a bell
[18:57:59] <michealpwalls> Yess I'm somewhat familiar with it
[18:58:06] <michealpwalls> Not very deep, though
[18:58:38] <crutchy> what differed was the government's reactions
[18:59:19] <michealpwalls> I find (Which is odd, 'cause it's history) there's so much disagreement about the 'Great Depression'; I wonder if it is the same for 1920s crisis?
[18:59:52] <michealpwalls> Some make an argument that the government response to the Great Depression made it worse... Some argue that it prevented it from becoming worse than it did and etc.
[18:59:55] <crutchy> this might have been it
[18:59:56] <crutchy> http://en.wikipedia.org
[19:00:21] <crutchy> government response section:
[19:00:21] <crutchy> http://en.wikipedia.org
[19:00:53] <crutchy> the government basically did nothing
[19:01:04] <swiss> http://www.amazon.com
[19:01:05] <swiss> read reviews
[19:02:48] <michealpwalls> Yes, I'm not an expert but it seems to claim (The wiki) that the Government was slow to react and when they did act, the markets were beginning to get better on their own
[19:02:54] <michealpwalls> Which then the government claimed credit LOL ^
[19:02:58] <michealpwalls> Sounds about right, I think hehe
[19:03:15] <crutchy> lmao "It felt like my delicate starfish was a gaping maw projectile vomiting a torrential flood of toxic waste"
[19:03:41] <michealpwalls> Hoover, though, was secretary. That's ver yinteresting because he later went on to heavily influence "The New Deal" which was applied to the 'Great Depression' that followed.
[19:04:15] <crutchy> the new deal is seen by economists of the austrian school is prolonging the great depression
[19:04:32] <crutchy> the government not allowing the markets to work normally
[19:04:49] <crutchy> (smae as they did after 2000 and 2008)
[19:04:57] <michealpwalls> "With these little satan bears zero is a serving size"
[19:04:58] <michealpwalls> hahaha
[19:05:02] <michealpwalls> Those reviews are hilarious!
[19:05:34] <michealpwalls> crutchy: Indeed. That's what I meant. There are many well reasoned arguments for *both* sides of that argument I find :/
[19:05:47] <michealpwalls> I don't have the expertise to claim either is wrong... The logic behind 'the new deal' makes sense to me, though.
[19:06:24] <michealpwalls> The core of th eissue was lack of spending. The 'new deal' sought to put money back into the hands of consumers to kick start spending again, which would signal demand and demand leads to new hires..
[19:06:27] <crutchy> hahaha " I sat in my living room, creating a playlist of make-out music and nervously binging on the Gummi Bears I had placed in a decorative bowl because I am fancy"
[19:06:31] <michealpwalls> That makes perfect sense to me
[19:06:48] <crutchy> it doesn;t work though
[19:06:59] <crutchy> cos its just redistribution of money that would have been spent anyway
[19:07:06] <michealpwalls> That's debatable, though.. So far it is working in Canada much better than what th eU.S is doing...
[19:07:26] <crutchy> instead of spending it wisely in sectors of the economy where it was needed, the government chooses (poorly) where to spend
[19:07:31] <michealpwalls> Tha tis why our unemployement is stabilizing and the U.S isn't... The government here is paying people to work on public infrastructure.. This gives them money, they spend the money which increases demand..
[19:07:39] <michealpwalls> The increased demand leads to more *permanent* jobs...
[19:07:45] <michealpwalls> To fill that demand.. And the wheel begins to spin.
[19:07:47] <michealpwalls> Very basic
[19:08:02] <crutchy> the government takes money to give it out though
[19:08:10] <crutchy> (unless it prints)
[19:08:49] <michealpwalls> There's more than can be done. In our case, government shifted money around quite a bit so as *not* to increase taxes, as increasing taxes would have further made the situation worse...
[19:08:53] <crutchy> every dollar the government so generously gives out is a dollar less that the market can allocate to where the real demand is
[19:09:11] <michealpwalls> They canceled projects with no return, they consolidated other projects, they contracted the military spending and focused it on "Economic Action"
[19:09:17] <michealpwalls> Or whatever the buzzword of the time was LOL
[19:09:34] <crutchy> i'm actually quite thankful to our government atm
[19:09:47] <crutchy> they are apparently going to make deep cuts
[19:09:51] <crutchy> in spending
[19:10:00] <crutchy> the budget came out recently
[19:10:41] <michealpwalls> I believe in government and taxes :/
[19:10:43] <michealpwalls> hehe
[19:11:21] <crutchy> i believe in limited government (like ron paul), which may warrant small taxes (preferably sales taxes)
[19:11:50] <crutchy> if a government needs income tax and corporate tax, its too big
[19:11:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> yar, linux accomplished
[19:12:08] <crutchy> lol
[19:12:13] <crutchy> hi TheMightyBuzzard
[19:12:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> yo
[19:12:22] <crutchy> we're still goin at it
[19:12:24] <crutchy> :-P
[19:12:28] <michealpwalls> hehehe!
[19:12:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> silly buggers
[19:12:33] <michealpwalls> We've shifted though
[19:12:39] <michealpwalls> Or did we come full circle?
[19:12:42] <crutchy> fuck me drunk over a barstool sideways tyrone
[19:12:44] <michealpwalls> LOL I think we came full circle!
[19:12:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> don't either of you know any good porn sites?
[19:12:50] <crutchy> its 3.15am!!!!
[19:13:00] <michealpwalls> haha crutchy! Not my fault *ducks*
[19:13:04] <crutchy> lol
[19:13:16] <crutchy> wow no wonder i'm talking crap
[19:13:27] <michealpwalls> har har har
[19:13:43] <michealpwalls> It was a good talk, crutchy! :)
[19:13:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're misusing the internet is all i'm saying
[19:13:59] <crutchy> "my delicate starfish was a gaping maw projectile vomiting a torrential flood of toxic waste"
[19:14:05] <crutchy> !grab crutchy
[19:14:05] <michealpwalls> LOL TheMighty. Too much information xchange, not enough porn? :)
[19:14:05] <deadpeas> Added quote 167
[19:14:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> zactly
[19:14:19] <crutchy> !quote 167
[19:14:19] <deadpeas> Quote 167 - <crutchy> !grab crutchy
[19:14:23] <crutchy> dammit
[19:14:25] <michealpwalls> hahaha
[19:14:28] <michealpwalls> That's the best quote ever
[19:14:30] <crutchy> have to get that one
[19:14:35] <michealpwalls> <crutchy> !grab crutchy
[19:15:03] <crutchy> at least it wasn't !grope crutchy
[19:15:06] <michealpwalls> lol
[19:15:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, isn't that from the comments on sugar-free gummi bears?
[19:15:54] <crutchy> yeah
[19:15:57] <crutchy> funny shit
[19:16:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> hilarious
[19:16:03] <crutchy> so to speak
[19:16:08] <crutchy> :-P
[19:16:10] <michealpwalls> I liked the "satan bears" one
[19:16:12] <michealpwalls> That was so rich
[19:16:16] <crutchy> i had better pike out
[19:16:25] <crutchy> it really fun chatting michealpwalls
[19:16:33] <michealpwalls> Yes, likewise! Have a good night
[19:16:39] <crutchy> cyas!
[19:16:43] <michealpwalls> *waves*
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[19:49:28] <crisp> for final vote, is 1 or 9 the most preferred? no instruction in the email... tho i remember it was (weirdly) 9 before
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[19:54:45] <mrcool|afk> "You MAY also rank lesser
[19:54:45] <mrcool|afk> favorites with lower numbers. A higher number means you like this choice better.
[19:54:45] <mrcool|afk> You do not have to use all the numbers."
[19:54:56] <mrcool|afk> crisp ^
[19:55:32] <crisp> turns out i cant read
[19:55:33] <crisp> cheers
[19:55:41] <mrcool|afk> cheers
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[20:41:28] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Amazon Caught Bullying Publishers - http://sylnt.us - amazon-administering-last-writes?
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[21:47:16] <Tachyon> http://www.sciencedaily.com
[22:00:28] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - iOS Apps Running on Android via Cider - http://sylnt.us - Life-Model-Decoy
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