#Soylent | Logs for 2014-05-05
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[00:06:59] <michealpwalls> NCommander: PM?
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[00:22:27] <cykros> hrm, running into issues with this nifty people font...it doesn't really work for a small image like the logo on the site :-/
[00:22:33] <cykros> just looks like rough text.
[00:22:49] <cykros> splash page anyone? :-P
[00:23:04] * cykros goes back to the drawing board.
[00:23:30] <chromas> Just have a strip of bacon
[00:23:39] <chromas> Maybe the text can be branded into it or something
[00:23:57] <cykros> i just really liked the idea of "Soylent News" being spelled with bodies in the shapes of letters.
[00:24:01] <cykros> and found the perfect font for it
[00:24:11] <cykros> http://www.fonts101.com
[00:24:32] <cykros> but as you can even tell at that huge font size, it becomes useless when you try to turn it into a relatively small logo
[00:24:37] <cykros> too much detail
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[00:41:52] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Europe's Cybersecurity Policy Under Attack - http://sylnt.us - contender-for-quote-of-the-week
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[00:58:50] <NCommander> michealpwalls, k
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[02:51:29] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Viacom Blocks Cable ONE Internet Users - http://sylnt.us - he-started-it-no-she-did!
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[04:33:27] <michealpwalls> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[04:33:30] <michealpwalls> What do you guys think? :)
[04:35:39] <JamesNZ> Where's Emacs? :P
[04:35:50] <JamesNZ> (I kid, I kid)
[04:37:50] <michealpwalls> haha
[04:40:50] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Days After its Discovery, Asteroid Buzzes Earth - http://sylnt.us - what-is-that-in-the-sky?-oh,-sh...
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[05:28:15] * NCommander is working on the manifesto, slowly
[05:31:38] mrcool|afk is now known as mrcoolbp
[05:37:17] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: how's the Manifesto/NFP thing going?
[05:37:29] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, manifesto: ok, NFP: no progress
[05:37:41] <mrcoolbp> = (
[05:37:47] <NCommander> I've got one last decent chance at getting housing on this trip, if it falls through, back to square one
[05:40:20] <mrcoolbp> let me know when you are around. My wife is calling. gotta run
[05:40:37] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, k
[05:40:39] <mrcoolbp> later
[05:40:41] mrcoolbp is now known as mrcool|afk
[06:22:08] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Confectioner MARS to Build a Massive Wind Farm - http://sylnt.us - nestle-hydroelectric-coming-soon
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[07:52:15] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - 'Solar' Jet Fuel Made Out of Thin Air - http://sylnt.us - not-for-you
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[08:17:58] * NCommander has a fun article in the hopper
[08:27:44] <chromas> If the Soylent name does win, the NFP should be named Soylent-Я-Us
[08:28:11] <chromas> Or News-Я-Us
[08:44:49] <NCommander> chromas, I've already got a name for the NFP
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[09:16:32] * NCommander is semi-debating making a MickyDs run
[09:30:28] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - U-2 Spy Plane Caused Shutdown of Flights - http://sylnt.us - cant-afford-to-retire
[09:56:10] <amblivious> 'Solar' Jet Fuel Made Out of Thin Air - dupe?
[09:56:44] <amblivious> oh no, that was sea water. hrm.
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[09:57:50] <amblivious> no, it's a dupe
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[10:25:29] <MrBluze> hi crutchy
[10:26:12] <crutchy> hi mrbluze
[10:26:26] <arti> g'day fellas
[10:26:56] <MrBluze> hi arti
[10:27:25] * crutchy salutes
[10:28:00] <arti> greetings
[10:30:07] * MrBluze straightens his tie
[10:30:31] * arti uses the force to adjust it back to where it was
[10:32:03] * MrBluze watches arti fail as in my MrBluze's timezone it's already the 5th
[10:33:45] <MrBluze> unless it's the revenge of the 5th
[10:35:41] <arti> haha
[10:39:23] <bryan> cinco de mayo!
[10:39:23] <MrBluze> any of u heard of Djigzo?
[10:39:44] <bryan> (sorry, i live in san antonio)
[10:40:40] <MrBluze> lol
[10:41:03] <bryan> http://pipedot.org
[10:41:07] <bryan> if anyone is interested
[10:41:53] <MrBluze> wow, well done
[10:43:49] <MrBluze> http://www.djigzo.com .. open source encrypted email gateway . hmm
[10:44:12] <arti> isn't email inherently flawed?
[10:44:27] <arti> with respect to secure communications
[10:44:49] <MrBluze> well, storing it unencrypted is flawed for starters
[10:45:08] <MrBluze> and structuring messages with headers and fields of all kinds in fixed places doesn't help
[10:47:01] <MrBluze> but what is inherently flawed, apart from that?
[10:50:37] <MrBluze> nvm i just read an article that reminded me, painfully so
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[10:59:43] <NCommander> bryan, I thought the pipecode source was up for awhile
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[11:01:33] <crutchy> NCommander: initial release was posted to github an hour ago
[11:01:46] * NCommander is looking at it
[11:02:11] <NCommander> The lack of templating system is unfortunate :-/
[11:02:18] <crutchy> can we use it / build on it ????
[11:03:24] <NCommander> crutchy, honestly, I'm happier with slashcode
[11:04:40] * NCommander is looking through it more indepth though
[11:05:44] <NCommander> bryan, you MIGHT want to delete pipecode/main/phpinfo.php; that's probably a test file that got committed by accident
[11:05:45] <crutchy> cloning :-)
[11:06:49] <crutchy> NCommander: i reckon a templating system could be bashed together pretty quickly
[11:07:01] <crutchy> start simple
[11:07:12] <crutchy> str_replace :-D
[11:10:43] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Young Blood May Hold Key to Reversing Aging - http://sylnt.us - i've-been-doing-it-for-centuries
[11:11:14] <bryan> NCommander: ah, missed that one, thx
[11:11:30] <NCommander> bryan, NP.
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[11:47:37] <crutchy> i don't really have a problem with some hardcoded layout
[11:48:24] <crutchy> just looking at some of the files in main... there's a lot of writelns, but its not like they're really 'layouty'
[11:49:17] * crutchy didn't even realise there was a writeln function :-P
[11:50:35] <crutchy> hmm unless its a wrapper... which would be a good idea
[11:51:36] <crutchy> ahh yes in /nas/server/git/pipecode/lib/tools/tools.php
[11:52:00] <crutchy> oops i mean pipecode/lib/tools/tools.php :-P
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[12:31:41] <Subsentient> NCommander: Can you remove proxy discrimination? I hate turning it off.
[12:32:05] <NCommander> Subsentient, huh?
[12:32:11] <NCommander> Subsentient, I thought I nuked it
[12:33:34] <Subsentient> Still having login issues
[12:33:43] <Subsentient> I use a variety of machines
[12:33:46] <Subsentient> it's not isolated
[12:34:21] <NCommander> Subsentient, *sigh*
[12:34:28] <NCommander> The login code needs to be burnt to the ground and rewritten
[12:35:41] <Subsentient> NCommander: I'll get the gerbil swarm.
[12:36:11] <NCommander> Subsentient, if you can isolate what is causing it specifically; what you change that causes the logout, it might help
[12:36:22] <NCommander> Slash invalidates the login cookie though if you log in from more than one place
[12:36:33] <Subsentient> NCommander: I run a squid proxy on my local Centurylink connection.
[12:36:48] <NCommander> Subsentient, that in and of itself shouldn't be doing that
[12:37:02] <NCommander> our tor backend is reverse proxied and it sticks a connection no problem
[12:37:06] <Subsentient> NCommander: Yeah sometimes there's a squid header but the IP is the same
[12:37:28] <NCommander> Is it sending X-Forwarded-For?
[12:37:31] <Subsentient> Yeah
[12:37:33] <Subsentient> wait
[12:37:34] <Subsentient> no
[12:37:36] <Subsentient> I think not
[12:37:39] <NCommander> Check
[12:37:39] <Subsentient> Yeah I disabled that
[12:37:44] <NCommander> We've got security code that deals with that
[12:37:57] <NCommander> Which might be doing the wrong thing
[12:38:20] <Subsentient> forwarded_for off
[12:38:22] <Subsentient> yep
[12:38:24] <Subsentient> disabled
[12:38:53] <Subsentient> I run the proxy as a homebrew access control for things like Google and Facebook and all their ad networks
[12:39:08] <NCommander> Subsentient, hrm ...
[12:39:26] <Subsentient> Yeah I've got a nice big fat blacklist.txt
[12:39:35] <crutchy> homebrew access control = hosts?
[12:39:39] <NCommander> Subsentient, are you sure its disable bi-directionally? X-FF should only ever be sent on a reverse proxy, not a forward proxy
[12:39:52] <NCommander> i.e., check with wireshark on the outbound interface
[12:40:03] <NCommander> Slash works properly through proxies *has tried it*
[12:40:35] <Subsentient> It's not sent. I've looked.
[12:40:46] <NCommander> *grumble*
[12:40:57] <NCommander> Subsentient, alright, lets see if we can isolate it then
[12:41:06] <NCommander> Subsentient, can you reproduce it on dev.soylentnews.org?
[12:41:11] * Subsentient checks
[12:41:21] <crutchy> lol its funny how i can imagine how you might be saying that NCommander
[12:41:47] <NCommander> saying what?
[12:41:49] <crutchy> (unless you're filtering various expletives)
[12:41:51] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - ISS Earth View Now as HD Video Stream - http://sylnt.us - you-can-see-my-house
[12:42:01] <NCommander> crutchy, no, its probably an actual grumble
[12:43:03] <crutchy> need to program some more perl devs
[12:43:17] <crutchy> using php ;-P
[12:43:47] <crutchy> i'd love to help but i can't do perl to save myself
[12:44:28] <NCommander> crutchy, use Escape::Clause
[12:45:26] <Subsentient> NCommander: Seems OK on dev but it might be doing that thing where it works for a while just to trick me
[12:45:32] <Subsentient> or make me look bad etc
[12:45:49] <NCommander> Subsentient, its possible we squished it by accident with the next major /code release
[12:45:58] <NCommander> paulej72, done a ton of rework
[12:46:40] <NCommander> Subsentient, I don't want to sound like I'm blowing you off, but can you wait til we do the next major release (approx 1 month from now)? If you can make it happen on dev, I can debug it relatively easy
[12:47:03] <Subsentient> NCommander: I am deeply offended. How dare you!
[12:47:07] <Subsentient> $burrito NCommander
[12:47:07] * aqu4 chucks a nasty, rotten burrito at NCommander
[12:47:12] <Subsentient> jk
[12:47:22] * NCommander sets Subsentient's default score to -1
[12:47:23] <NCommander> :=_
[12:47:26] <NCommander> *:-)
[12:47:56] <NCommander> Subsentient, do all the requests come from the same IP?
[12:48:05] <Subsentient> Should, yeah.
[12:48:08] * NCommander wonders if the LB has something to do with it, but that seems unlikely
[12:48:30] <Subsentient> ofc some of my machines talk to the proxy with LAN addresses
[12:48:39] <Subsentient> which means the IP would not be the same
[12:49:10] <NCommander> Subsentient, well, the IP slash sees, would it be the same?
[12:49:43] <Subsentient> NCommander: Yes, 216.161.165.96
[12:49:54] <NCommander> hrmmmmmmmmmmm
[12:50:09] * NCommander can't easily put wireshark on inbound connections to see what mystic voodo is going on
[12:50:16] <NCommander> Subsentient, any possibility squid might be caching the page?
[12:50:30] <NCommander> We've seen similar behavior from slash when varnish malfuctions, and cookies are lost between page loads
[12:50:35] <Subsentient> NCommander: I disabled caching.
[12:50:48] <Subsentient> I use it as an ACL and to confuse people tracking me with the squid header.
[12:51:01] <NCommander> Well, something you're doing is confusing our backend
[12:51:24] <NCommander> Hrm
[12:51:27] <NCommander> DO you use https on the site?
[12:51:42] <Subsentient> NCommander: no.
[12:51:59] <Subsentient> BTW the main site is doing the thing right now but dev is working fine
[12:52:01] <NCommander> Any chance your passing X-Forwarded-Proto on the outbound HTTP
[12:52:20] <NCommander> That's the only other field which does magic that would be sent by a proxy server
[12:52:31] <Subsentient> NCommander: not familiar with that
[12:52:33] <Subsentient> what is it?
[12:52:40] * Subsentient is not a networking guy
[12:52:44] <NCommander> Tells the webserver if it was a http or https request
[12:53:05] <NCommander> Normally used when you terminate SSL before your backend server
[12:53:21] <Subsentient> ahh
[12:59:44] <Subsentient> NCommander: yeah no.
[12:59:47] <Subsentient> It's not sent
[12:59:53] <NCommander> Subsentient, ugh
[12:59:58] <NCommander> Subsentient, *grumble*
[12:59:58] <Subsentient> but besides, I use http only
[13:00:11] <Subsentient> I'm not very security conscious
[13:00:15] <NCommander> Subsentient, I'm probably going to need to try and setup wireshark in a way I can eavsdrop on your site communications
[13:00:18] <Subsentient> I am privacy oriented, but not a security guy
[13:00:24] <Subsentient> heh
[13:00:35] <Subsentient> You can.
[13:00:41] <Subsentient> but yeah dev.sn is fine for me
[13:00:46] <Subsentient> so, must be something you fixed
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[14:10:58] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Ask Soylent: Install Linux on BTRFS with Compression? - http://sylnt.us - sometimes-a-good-idea-is-a-bad-one
[14:17:43] <MrBluze> install linux on ext2
[14:17:58] <MrBluze> at least u can recover it with a dusty old live distro from 4 years ago
[14:19:34] <Subsentient> No, install it on ext4
[14:19:38] <Subsentient> ext4 is glorious.
[14:19:47] <MrBluze> ext4 is good, actually
[14:19:52] <Subsentient> Never had an ext4 fs ever go unrecoverable on me
[14:19:54] <MrBluze> esp as it degrades gracefully if it fails
[14:19:59] <MrBluze> yep
[14:20:11] <MrBluze> but what do u use for boot.. ext4?
[14:20:22] <Subsentient> For thumbdrives mkfs.ext4 -O ^has_journal to create without journal
[14:20:25] <Subsentient> yeah
[14:20:31] <Subsentient> ext4 and I use SYSLINUX as my bootloader
[14:20:36] <Subsentient> I prefer it over GRUB
[14:20:38] <Subsentient> much cleaner
[14:20:54] <MrBluze> yeah it is
[14:20:57] <MrBluze> grub is grubby
[14:21:00] <MrBluze> clunky
[14:21:05] <MrBluze> and i hate things that are called 'grand'
[14:21:07] <Subsentient> yeah, grub 1 was decent
[14:21:22] <Subsentient> but the new syslinux can do pretty much everything grub 1 could do without the horror of grub 2
[14:21:40] <Subsentient> MrBluze: use SYSLINUX 4.06
[14:21:42] <Subsentient> nothing else
[14:21:50] <Subsentient> everything newer is unstable/unreliable
[14:22:08] <Subsentient> When I learn asm first thing I'm gonna do is write a new bootloader for x86.
[14:22:57] <MrBluze> u know stuff
[14:23:19] <MrBluze> when i knew asm
[14:23:21] <MrBluze> and c
[14:23:24] <MrBluze> i started writing an OS
[14:23:40] <Subsentient> and?
[14:23:52] <MrBluze> but never got further than planning how to do a file system .. though it was clever .. sort of
[14:23:59] <MrBluze> and i wrote a bunch of GUI libraries
[14:24:07] <MrBluze> back in the days of 80486
[14:24:36] <crutchy> cool!
[14:24:40] <MrBluze> file system was not directory based but tag based.. a single file allocation database and u could use anything to refer to a file
[14:24:55] <MrBluze> u could make directories by calling tags /dev
[14:25:02] <MrBluze> or /usr/bin could be a tag
[14:25:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> i was always more interested in custom drivers so i could hook a toaster up if i felt the need.
[14:25:49] <crutchy> i never want my toaster to be smarter than me... that day is nearing though
[14:26:02] <MrBluze> i like a toaster with doors
[14:26:06] <MrBluze> i dont like the ones that pop up
[14:26:25] <MrBluze> there's a lot ot be said about a ceremony of getting the tongs and placing the bread carefully against the element
[14:26:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahh but a toaster you could tell to make toast from across the internet, thus ensuring your toast was too cold to butter by the time you got home...
[14:26:37] <crutchy> i wouldn't mind a toaster that pays my bills though
[14:26:44] <crutchy> and makes the money to pay the bills too
[14:26:47] <crutchy> :-D
[14:27:01] <MrBluze> TheMightyBuzzard: .. then i go to the hospital caf and get toast there .. just as good ;)
[14:27:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> fair nuff.
[14:27:51] <MrBluze> .. so anyway i gave up the OS thing cause i just got busy, but i did it out of frustration at how shit microsoft's stuff was
[14:28:11] <MrBluze> so i know the feeling behind people who made AROS and the other amiga spin offs
[14:28:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, an os is always gonna be a seriously ambitious project for one person.
[14:28:33] <MrBluze> not totally impossible
[14:28:49] <MrBluze> i mean it's too much now, what with the internet and devices and everything
[14:29:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah but if you'd stuck to just the FS driver it could be doable.
[14:29:09] <MrBluze> but u could still make something from scratch for small time use like a controller, or something like that
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[14:29:46] <MrBluze> easier just to use DSL or get a raspberry pi with raspbian on it already
[14:30:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod. i do a wee bit of coding for microcontrollers but those tend to be wicked simple.
[14:30:31] <MrBluze> Subsentient: make a bootloader that just fades right into a desktop
[14:31:44] <MrBluze> apple's instant boot is very elegant .. sigh
[14:32:46] <MrBluze> i always admired amiga's philosophy of never really having a text mode
[14:33:18] <Subsentient> MrBluze: heh yeah no. I want a bootloader that will boot Linux, BSD, Haiku, Windows, Darwin, etc.
[14:33:23] <Subsentient> Without chainloading
[14:33:44] <Subsentient> I want something I can use to handle the /bsd kernel image like a bsd bootloader would
[14:34:08] <crutchy> virtualisation?
[14:35:30] <MrBluze> i admit thats why i got the macbook, so i can run vmware and boot 5 OS's without stressing the system
[14:35:38] <crutchy> maybe xen
[14:35:50] <crutchy> or some other hypervisor
[14:36:25] <MrBluze> it's all getting so freaking complex now it's hard to start anything without a few million bucks and hyper-specialised software engineers
[14:36:29] <Subsentient> switching machines.
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[14:36:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'd have to put an obscene amount of ram in a box to do that. i get spoiled to whatever amount of ram I have.
[14:37:00] <MrBluze> i just got 16gb ram
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[14:37:17] <MrBluze> but linux isnt greedy, and if i am running 4 linuxe's then they dont uusally need much ram each
[14:37:22] <MrBluze> windows gets 4gb
[14:37:30] <michealpwalls> 'morning everybody
[14:37:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> same here but if i drop below 8 on anything it makes me want to kick things.
[14:37:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin
[14:38:18] <weeds> morning y'all
[14:38:25] <crutchy> g'day michealpwalls, TheMightyBuzzard,mrbluze,weeds :-)
[14:38:32] <michealpwalls> Hi!
[14:38:33] <MrBluze> well, if i am doin something serious on a system i sleep off the other vm's and free up the ram
[14:38:38] <MrBluze> hey crutchy :) how's your day been mate
[14:38:42] <crutchy> err.. night for mrbluze :-)
[14:38:46] <crutchy> not too bad
[14:38:54] <crutchy> yours?
[14:39:00] <MrBluze> i worked hard .. and tomorrow i work harder
[14:39:13] <MrBluze> got the 60 hour week this week.. looks like next week is the same now
[14:39:14] <crutchy> that sux
[14:39:20] <weeds> blech
[14:39:37] <MrBluze> yeah .. ah well
[14:39:38] <crutchy> if i work 40 hours i'll be happy
[14:40:00] <MrBluze> most weeks i work not much more than 40 hours really
[14:40:27] <crutchy> i'm sure my boss would LOOOVE for me to work 60 hours atm
[14:40:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> if i work 40 hours i'm either going to be heavily annoyed or freakin rich, depending on if they're billable.
[14:40:36] <crutchy> we all got our arses hanging out
[14:40:47] <michealpwalls> hehe
[14:40:57] <MrBluze> lol
[14:41:05] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: you run your own business yeah?
[14:41:28] <michealpwalls> I have a long weekend. Friday was my last day at work (co-op) and I start back in classes on Tuesday :D
[14:41:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup. who the hours are on depends on the contract though.
[14:41:39] <MrBluze> nice
[14:42:02] <MrBluze> yeah some of my work if i did 40 hours a week i'd be taking a month off for a world trip
[14:42:14] <MrBluze> but sadly most of it's bread + butter
[14:42:27] <crutchy> i gotta get a job off my desk that's had its hours blown way out :-(
[14:42:37] <michealpwalls> Oh fiddle sticks, the SN wiki mainpage isnt' editable :(
[14:42:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> honestly, I put in about 5-10 most weeks.
[14:42:54] <crutchy> hmm never tried that lol
[14:43:13] <crutchy> fuck i wish i worked 5-10 hours (and still got paid the same)
[14:43:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> not counting having monitors rigged to show me statuses in conky.
[14:43:33] <crutchy> lol
[14:43:36] <crutchy> conky++
[14:43:36] <deadpeas> karma - conky: 2
[14:43:46] <crutchy> i use conky on my servers
[14:44:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> conky is so damned useful it should be beerware licensed. no contributor would ever be sober again.
[14:44:29] <MrBluze> im gonna cut back my workload in a couple of years i think
[14:44:45] <crutchy> one of the reasons i'm looking at a new box with 4 head graphics
[14:44:52] <MrBluze> if there still is a place to work for that is
[14:44:55] <crutchy> lmao
[14:44:58] <crutchy> hmm
[14:45:03] <crutchy> i should develop beerware
[14:45:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> but yeah, up side is 5-10 hour normal weeks. down side is the occasional 100 hour week.
[14:45:27] <MrBluze> service jobs r like that
[14:45:33] <MrBluze> im in a heavy patch at the moment
[14:45:43] <crutchy> downside of running your own business eh TheMightyBuzzard
[14:45:45] <MrBluze> it will ease up in a few weeks and then I go on a conference ;)
[14:45:52] <crutchy> sounds good mrbluz
[14:45:54] <crutchy> e
[14:45:59] <crutchy> (the conference bit)
[14:46:15] * MrBluze nods
[14:46:21] <crutchy> heard about the federal budget being a bit nasty
[14:46:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> i dig both really. if it's a busy week i don't get bored. this is a big thing to someone with ADD as bad as mine.
[14:46:36] <MrBluze> yeah the budget is a disgrace.. but everything is a disgrace
[14:46:52] <MrBluze> the war-about-nothing in ukraine is a disgrace
[14:47:11] <crutchy> sounds like they trying to scare everyone out of the aussie dollar to keep primary/manufacturing going without having to drop rates
[14:47:19] <MrBluze> my kids tell better lies than those politicians
[14:47:34] <MrBluze> yeah u are dead right there, crutchy
[14:47:42] <MrBluze> if they drop rates.. oh dear, the rest of us breathe easier
[14:47:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> which? wait, nevermind. you could wildcard that.
[14:48:20] <crutchy> if they drop rates, personal debt skyrockets and our housing bubble blows up like in the US
[14:49:01] <MrBluze> i guess it does
[14:49:10] <crutchy> it would be nice if they could keep rates above 3%, so that super doesn't go completely to shit
[14:49:18] <MrBluze> don't trust super
[14:49:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'for the best really. bubbles need to not be tolerated or encouraged.
[14:49:24] <MrBluze> don't trust anything that isn't real
[14:49:41] <crutchy> super is real, just that most people don't manage it well
[14:49:53] <MrBluze> it's real NOW because at the moment u can cash it
[14:50:00] <crutchy> you can set up a self-managed super fund
[14:50:06] <crutchy> yeah i guess
[14:50:10] <MrBluze> but its not real in the future because it's managed by who-the-fluck-knows-who
[14:50:29] <crutchy> if you manage your own you can invest in mining stocks and commodities
[14:50:30] <MrBluze> the government will turn around and say, sorry, you aren't 105 years old yet
[14:50:44] <crutchy> lol
[14:50:47] <crutchy> yeah prolly
[14:50:56] <MrBluze> or .. oh nice, now pay the 50% tax
[14:51:04] <crutchy> i'll be working till i cark it
[14:51:42] <crutchy> i think we're doing much better than a lot of countries though'
[14:51:43] <MrBluze> before u put a CENT extra into super, get out of debt and get a plan to not rely on super
[14:51:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, i love how with social security you have to pay in as a tax then when they finally deign to start giving it back you have to pay taxes on that too.
[14:51:51] <crutchy> our government debt is at least under control
[14:52:02] <crutchy> (even though our private debt is very high)
[14:52:27] <crutchy> ^low rates will encourage that
[14:52:31] <michealpwalls> What are you referring to with 'super' ?
[14:52:39] <crutchy> superannuation
[14:52:45] <crutchy> err... 401k?
[14:52:46] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: private pension fund
[14:52:50] <michealpwalls> I probably shouldn't ask... LOL such a distracting tangent :O
[14:52:55] <michealpwalls> Ohhh!
[14:52:59] <MrBluze> government pensions are a figment of everyone's imagination
[14:53:07] <michealpwalls> I see. A privately managed public pension fund?
[14:53:14] <MrBluze> yeah
[14:53:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> could be worse, social security is a proper ponzi scheme.
[14:53:27] <michealpwalls> That's what we do in Canada. It works out great for the firm that manages it :)
[14:53:33] <MrBluze> super is a super complex ponzi scheme no one has worked out yet
[14:53:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> seriously. define a ponzi and every single characteristic fits on the nose.
[14:53:54] <michealpwalls> Yea
[14:54:00] <MrBluze> what frustrates financiers is people buy land because they can walk on it and see it and put fences around it
[14:54:03] <michealpwalls> A ponzi scheme is an inverted triangle
[14:54:09] <MrBluze> they want people to buy invisible shit that evaporates
[14:54:20] <michealpwalls> So, the people who come into the Ponzi scheme first -> Their money goes to attracting more people into the Triangle
[14:54:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> true but it sounds cooler because it rhymes with fonzi
[14:54:48] <MrBluze> michealpwalls: thing about super is the early ones get their money and jump for joy
[14:55:02] <michealpwalls> And then the 2nd teir, their money *primarily* goes to attracting a 3rd teir, but a small portion of that also goes to keeping the 1st teir in their drunken dream :)
[14:55:04] <crutchy> i think that's why self-managed and wraps ae becoming more popular
[14:55:09] <MrBluze> but the money evaporates when everybody comes around to collect
[14:55:16] <michealpwalls> Eventually, tehre's not enough money to spread to the upper teirs, and the Ponzi scheme collapses :)
[14:55:42] <MrBluze> crutchy: they are, because its some how news that u cant trust ... uhm.. those types
[14:55:48] <michealpwalls> MrBluze: Yea, exactly! That's the way to run a "good" ponzi scheme. In the beginning, must divert a lot of money to keeping peopel convinced it's not a "scheme" LMAO
[14:55:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, especially bad if the upper tiers don't have the good manners to die in a timely manner
[14:56:06] <michealpwalls> LMAO TheMightyBuzzard touche! Indeed :)
[14:56:32] <crutchy> that's what mcd's is for
[14:56:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> which is exactly what we have now with the increased life expectancy.
[14:56:35] <crutchy> they are trying
[14:56:46] <michealpwalls> I can't believe I just referred to a "good ponzi scheme" hahaha
[14:56:48] <michealpwalls> I kill me
[14:56:54] <MrBluze> life is a ponzi scheme
[14:57:02] <michealpwalls> I'm so Canadian it's funny :)
[14:57:04] <MrBluze> i did well out of it, give me some money and u might too
[14:57:10] <crutchy> a good ponzi scheme is one where you are on top
[14:57:14] <michealpwalls> haha MrBluze
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[14:58:04] <MrBluze> crutchy: that;s what SHE said
[14:58:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> damn canadians. i always get donut hungry when canada gets mentioned.
[14:58:50] <crutchy> she said if i was on top i'd get something out of it.... but i didn't realise what she meant at the time
[14:59:03] <MrBluze> lol
[14:59:08] <crutchy> now i have two of them :-P
[14:59:32] <MrBluze> i know how it is
[14:59:34] <MrBluze> :)
[14:59:44] <MrBluze> yeah so the budget is stuffed
[14:59:49] <MrBluze> they are gonna cut where there's nothing left to cut
[15:00:05] <crutchy> i can see how PS would be worried
[15:00:43] <crutchy> i'm kinda glad they're keeping the pressure on though, cos last thing i wanna see is our debt to gdp get anywhere near other nations in trouble
[15:00:52] <MrBluze> from my perspective i am worried they will stuff up GP land and we'll get a mountain of useless crap coming our way
[15:01:04] <MrBluze> oh i agree we are too welfare-ish
[15:01:15] <MrBluze> they gotta stop this .. "oh my back is sore, now pay more more than a plumber gets"
[15:01:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> ours is flat fucked in the states
[15:01:23] <crutchy> lol yeah
[15:01:30] <crutchy> its a hot topic at work
[15:01:34] <crutchy> the welfare thing
[15:01:45] <MrBluze> every freakin loser with half their teeth missing is looking for a chance to sue now
[15:02:12] <michealpwalls> Jesus. The entire View portion of the Slash architecture belongs in the fucking trash bin.
[15:02:15] <crutchy> we just about have a sign on the front door of our office that says "dole bludgers fuck off"
[15:02:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> when i'm emperor of north america, social services will be giving people low paying jobs fixing roads and not a damned thing else.
[15:02:26] <michealpwalls> View (Interface) stuff spread absolutely fucking *everywhere*
[15:02:49] <michealpwalls> Even in th god damned *database* there is View stuff....
[15:02:50] <MrBluze> TheMightyBuzzard: stop building roads, start building public rail
[15:02:54] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: what about someone to wipe my ass?
[15:03:01] <michealpwalls> That's just head-up-ass, that's what that is...
[15:03:29] <MrBluze> slash is too complex
[15:03:34] <MrBluze> its a tinkerer gone mad
[15:03:38] <crutchy> pipecode++
[15:03:38] <deadpeas> karma - pipecode: 1
[15:04:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, ask the bloke next to you. toilet paper works a treat for keeping asphalt from splattering so there should be some on most crews.
[15:04:50] <crutchy> i don't know anyone on a road crew
[15:04:59] <crutchy> not that sort of gingerbeer
[15:05:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> no ass wiping for you then. do the wormy dog drag.
[15:05:15] <crutchy> lol yes
[15:05:25] <crutchy> and rotate
[15:05:30] <MrBluze> ah, the land where roads are toiletpaper
[15:05:38] * MrBluze dreams
[15:06:00] * crutchy just had a disturbing image pop into his head
[15:06:03] <MrBluze> crutchy: i just hope they dont cut things that save money already
[15:06:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> really is useful though. makes your car not get splattered with hot asphalt and dissolves the first time it rains.
[15:06:35] <crutchy> of hundreds of people making their way down the toilet-papered monash freeway doin the wromy dog drag
[15:06:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> conga!
[15:06:51] <MrBluze> crutchy: .. it's nearly the way it is already
[15:07:02] <crutchy> lol yeah
[15:07:37] <crutchy> i used to go over it on my way to fishermens bend (though i think it turns into the westgate there)
[15:07:45] <crutchy> the great parking lot
[15:08:04] <MrBluze> its not caled the monash car-park for nothing u know
[15:08:11] <MrBluze> yeah
[15:08:43] <MrBluze> mate of mine drove down there one night going home from work and got stopped on the side of the road by a team of .. i dunno. maybe 10 swat type commando dudes from the afp
[15:08:54] <crutchy> cool!
[15:08:57] <crutchy> err
[15:09:02] <crutchy> not for him though i guess
[15:09:12] <MrBluze> yeah.. and then they kind of went.. oh.. urr... nothing to see here. move along .. u never saw nothin
[15:09:16] <MrBluze> yeah
[15:10:20] <crutchy> our secret squirrel cops must do a slightly better job at hiding than their yank counterparts, cos i hardly ever hear of them
[15:10:45] <crutchy> ASIS or ASIO or whatever they called
[15:11:00] <crutchy> ASIS is prolly equiv of CIA or something
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[15:11:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> i can conquer OZ after i'm done consolidating north america if you like. i think everyone but socialists, monopolists, and pushy religious/anti-religious types would dig it.
[15:12:11] <MrBluze> they have a big staff
[15:12:15] <MrBluze> always recruiting
[15:12:41] <MrBluze> i was reading roman history a few weeks ago
[15:12:41] <crutchy> you gonnu be a despot TheMightyBuzzard?
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[15:12:44] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Woods] by juggler
[15:12:55] <MrBluze> thing i liked was they banned any secret association
[15:13:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, supreme tyrant.
[15:13:06] <MrBluze> even they couldnt have a secret police of their own
[15:13:06] <crutchy> just be sure to build a temple, cathedral etc otherwise you'll have to increase your luxuries tax
[15:13:31] <MrBluze> all hail TheMightyBuzzard
[15:13:55] <MrBluze> anyway, im orf to bed .. its cold and i am working my petty ass off tomorrow
[15:13:59] <crutchy> and make sure you get that hot foreign advisor chick
[15:14:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> enjoy
[15:14:11] <crutchy> cya mrbluze
[15:14:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> whozat?
[15:14:25] <crutchy> i'll prolly fall asleep soon
[15:14:29] <MrBluze> cheers crutchy, TheMightyBuzzard, etc
[15:14:48] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|zzz
[15:15:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> really have to do your own foreign advisoring as a tyrant though.
[15:16:16] <michealpwalls> Anyone on a Windows machine that does *not* have Eclipse/Java installed?
[15:16:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> my policy is generally going to be "let's be friends. if not, fuck off or I will make a glass parking lot of your entire nation"
[15:17:11] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: http://www.youtube.com
[15:17:40] <Woods> Michaelpwalls: My home computer did not have Java on it until I just recently decided to play Minecraft
[15:17:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, gotta have the elvis guy
[15:17:52] <crutchy> just be sure to dress her like jabba the hut did princess leia
[15:17:55] <crutchy> lol
[15:18:08] <crutchy> woods: sounds bad
[15:18:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, my gaming box doesn't. i do MC on linux.
[15:18:33] <Woods> Crutchy: One less vulnerability. Nothing bad about that.
[15:18:45] <michealpwalls> Hrmm! I started a little guide to setup a Perl IDE on Windows (For Slash), do you have time today to see if it works? (The steps hehe)
[15:18:49] <crutchy> i mean you have minecraft
[15:19:04] <crutchy> if i had minecraft you would never hear from me again :-P
[15:19:29] <Woods> lol
[15:19:32] <michealpwalls> I don't think I missed anything, but if someone with a fresh java/eclipse system could run through it quick to see if there isn't an important instruction missing that would be awesome :D
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[15:19:36] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v LaminatorX] by juggler
[15:19:36] <michealpwalls> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[15:20:04] <Woods> Crutchy: I do not play much, I am still waiting for NC to launch the SN server (If that ever happens)
[15:20:04] <crutchy> g'day LaminatorX
[15:20:20] -!- TK_ [TK_!~9ff52002@159.245.ju.y] has joined #Soylent
[15:20:26] <crutchy> if he does that we might never hear from NC again
[15:20:31] <crutchy> he's a tinkerer too
[15:20:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> eh, be easier to make a temporary vm than reboot.
[15:20:39] <michealpwalls> haha yea probs
[15:20:44] <Woods> Michaelpwalls: I will check it out, I do not know anything about no coding, and I may be too busy to even do it. But we will see.
[15:20:46] * TheMightyBuzzard checks his laziness meter
[15:20:55] <crutchy> mine broke^
[15:20:57] <michealpwalls> LOL!
[15:20:59] <Woods> Half of my department is on vacation, and there are only two of us.
[15:21:24] <michealpwalls> Anyone here able to edit the mainpage on the Wiki?
[15:21:39] <michealpwalls> Doesn't let a mere peasant such as myself edit it :/
[15:22:14] <crutchy> "Note: This page has been protected so that only registered users can edit it."
[15:22:27] <michealpwalls> I'm registered and logged in, LOL still can't edit it :(
[15:22:29] <crutchy> looks like i can edit, but i'm logged in
[15:22:41] <michealpwalls> "This page has been protected to prevent editing or other actions."
[15:22:44] <crutchy> oh
[15:22:52] <michealpwalls> I'm a wiki newbie :)
[15:23:13] <crutchy> 12:22, 21 March 2014 FunPika (Talk | contribs) protected "SoylentNews" [edit=autoconfirmed] (indefinite)[move=autoconfirmed] (indefinite) (High traffic page: Frankly, this is the main page. I'm surprised it hasn't been vandalised yet.) (hist)
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[15:23:50] <crutchy> i dunno why you would be different from me
[15:23:58] <Woods> Magic.
[15:24:00] <crutchy> might have to ask funpika
[15:24:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> handy, already had a fresh-ish win7 install
[15:24:24] <LaminatorX> g'day, Crutchy.
[15:25:10] <crutchy> how's tricks?
[15:25:49] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: kinda sounds like a fresh turd
[15:26:29] <crutchy> hopefully your cpu fans are running well to keep the smell out
[15:26:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> better than any other win* alternative
[15:26:31] <LaminatorX> Back from convalescing after a mean sore throat, the kind that comes with fever,chills, shakes, and coughing fits. Good times.
[15:26:44] <crutchy> oh
[15:26:48] <crutchy> that's no good
[15:26:59] <LaminatorX> Better now, thanks.
[15:27:05] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: the least stinkiest turd :-P
[15:27:15] <crutchy> that's ok then
[15:27:37] <crutchy> i've had bugs go through my house recently, but i managed to avoid it so far
[15:27:54] <crutchy> both kids were on antibiotics last week
[15:29:08] -!- crutchy has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[15:29:17] * TheMightyBuzzard scratches his head
[15:29:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> wtf did i put on there to fill up the virtual drive already?
[15:30:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh well, i'll add another
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[15:34:51] <Woods> TheMightyBuzzard: Windows.
[15:38:30] <michealpwalls> LOL
[15:40:20] <michealpwalls> Did I miss a discussion on Anti Biotics? :D
[15:40:50] * LaminatorX is currently medicated.
[15:42:22] -!- TK [TK!~9ff52002@159.245.ju.y] has joined #Soylent
[15:46:18] <Woods> Bahahaaaaaa! On the ISS Earth view video stream being offline, Wonkey_monkey says "It is, perhaps, not their highest priority."
[15:47:17] -!- Blackmoore [Blackmoore!~4028ef96@64.40.xqg.gvs] has joined #Soylent
[15:50:54] <Blackmoore> is it friday yet?
[15:52:50] <TK> It's 4pm on a Friday somewhere
[15:52:58] <TK> That's how timezones work, right?
[15:53:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, you wanting eclipse or geany tested?
[15:54:07] <Woods> TK: Science!
[15:55:06] <TK> I've got it, we just need to redefine daylight savings time
[15:55:19] <michealpwalls> Eclipse
[15:55:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod
[15:55:38] <michealpwalls> Geany is pretty much all-hands-on hehe. I'll have to spend a lot more time on a Geany guide hehe
[15:55:55] <michealpwalls> But I provided the link, if they're interested it's not terribly difficult, just a lot of mennial steps
[15:59:16] SoyGuest66491 is now known as Teckla
[15:59:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> downloading now. would have been quicker but i had to slap some sense into windows.
[16:00:05] <michealpwalls> LOL
[16:00:12] <michealpwalls> No prob. I appreciate you taking th time! :)
[16:02:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> you wanting stable or testing on the epic plugin?
[16:05:25] <michealpwalls> I went with testing
[16:05:47] <michealpwalls> That's a good point, maybe I should put that on th Wiki
[16:06:02] <michealpwalls> I havent' tested it enough to say either way :P
[16:06:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> should probably put "add java to the PATH env variable" or something too.
[16:10:28] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Circular Polarization in Afterglow of GRB - http://sylnt.us - round-and-round
[16:12:07] <Woods> I kept reading GRB as RGB on that story, and I got really confused.
[16:13:31] <michealpwalls> Ohh ight!
[16:13:45] <michealpwalls> When you install the JRE or JDK, it *should* do that automatically. Didn't it?
[16:14:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> apparently not
[16:14:40] <michealpwalls> Hrmm, okay I'll add the instructions for that then. Thanks! (See that's the kinda shit I was worried about hehe)
[16:15:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> ugh, now getting fun error messages trying to start eclipse
[16:16:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> not sure if it's requiring java version 1.6 or >= 1.6
[16:16:56] <michealpwalls> Hrmm
[16:17:06] <michealpwalls> I run Java v7
[16:17:30] <michealpwalls> v7 update 55 LOL. Dunno how that translates to v1.6 :/
[16:17:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'what i have in. no idea why it's bitching if it's not for you.
[16:17:45] <michealpwalls> Hrmm *thinks*
[16:18:03] <michealpwalls> Is it just asking which one to use, or throwing an error that it can't use anything?
[16:18:22] * TheMightyBuzzard googles
[16:18:35] <michealpwalls> Also, you downloaded Kepler that I linked to?
[16:18:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> throwing error code 13, looking it up
[16:18:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep
[16:18:40] <michealpwalls> kk
[16:21:56] MrBluze|zzz is now known as MrBluze|afk
[16:22:12] <michealpwalls> I got a wide range of answers for that error...
[16:22:14] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[16:22:15] <michealpwalls> This one: I had the same error when configuring eclipse.ini to use JRE6. Turns out I caused this error by incorrectly configuring eclipse to use the 64 bit JVM while running a 32 bit version of eclipse 3.7.
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[16:22:48] <michealpwalls> Mismatch in 32/64 bit. Either 32-bit JRE/JDK running a 64-bit Eclipse or vice-versa. Dunno if that applies to you, though.
[16:23:09] -!- TK [TK!~9ff52002@159.245.ju.y] has joined #Soylent
[16:23:53] <michealpwalls> Another group of people had that error due to file-path issues. One had a hashtag in their file-path (D:\#sts\etc\etc\etc) and when they moved eclipse out of that #sts dir it worked. Another simply moved it closer to root (D:\etc\eclipse instead of D:\etc\etc\etc\etc\Eclipse)
[16:24:26] <michealpwalls> http://stackoverflow.com
[16:30:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, prolly correct
[16:30:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> will fix
[16:31:02] <Blackmoore> Which version of Eclipse?
[16:31:40] <michealpwalls> Kepler (Service Release 2) is what I link to on the wiki
[16:31:52] <michealpwalls> Also I link to the JRE v7
[16:31:57] <Blackmoore> hmph. I have it working with 1.7 at home
[16:32:05] <michealpwalls> But, *both* links lead to a landing page that wants you to choose the bit packages
[16:32:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod. i prolly grabbed the 32bit java
[16:32:21] <michealpwalls> So if you accidentally click the wrong one, it never really makes it clear during the installations LOL
[16:32:33] <Blackmoore> but i did have to argue with it to make sure i had both 64-bit Java and Eclipse.
[16:32:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> so i'll grab the 32bit eclipse and fix it.
[16:32:36] <michealpwalls> Yea, I've done that a few times hehe
[16:33:11] <Blackmoore> yeah - easy to do
[16:34:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> not really but i've been distracted from refilling my coffee often enough, so i've a perfectly acceptable excuse.
[16:34:48] <michealpwalls> lol
[16:37:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'better
[16:38:42] <Woods> Ugh, Nickleback started playing on my Ellie Goulding/Lindsey Stirling radio station. #pandoraproblems
[16:39:16] <LaminatorX> I'll use Pandora more if it can ever understand why I like Bjork but not Madonna.
[16:40:30] mrcool|afk is now known as mrcoolbp
[16:41:14] <Woods> I think it has something in the algorithm that adds a random style of music occasionally, to keep things fresh.
[16:41:50] LaminatorX is now known as LaminatorX|afk
[16:42:27] <weeds> I think it's part of a strategy to get you to buy the advanced capabilities so you can have more skips!
[16:43:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, aside from the path issue and the EPIC install directions being slightly wrong all is good
[16:43:53] <Woods> If I subscribe to an online radio station, it would be the Google Play one, not Pandora.
[16:44:12] <michealpwalls> Almost done the edits to that guide, thanks for your time TheMightyBuzzard !
[16:44:22] <weeds> Never tried Google play. How is it better?
[16:44:30] <Woods> Back button.
[16:44:43] <Woods> There is no free version, unfortunately.
[16:45:27] <Woods> But just being able to listen to a song again is amazing. Their library is larger (I think). You can download the songs to your phone, and listen to them offline. Those are the major differences.
[16:45:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> Help > Software Updates in the EPIC install instructions should read Help > Install New Software
[16:45:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep
[16:47:06] <Teckla> I like Pandora but one thing that really annoys me is that when they're playing a commercial you can't change the volume on their player, you have to use the OS volume control.
[16:47:32] <Teckla> So if you're listening to a song you really like and turn it up, then it switches to commercial, you're forced to endure the loud commercial or access the OS volume settings to turn it the F down.
[16:47:43] <Teckla> Just seems like a vaguely asshole thing to do...
[16:47:50] <Woods> Teckla: Are you on a mobile device?
[16:48:02] <Teckla> Woods: Windows
[16:48:17] <Teckla> Accessing Pandora via web browser
[16:48:31] <Woods> Aahhh... You should get you some adblock software.
[16:48:42] <Teckla> Woods: I use Adblock Plus
[16:49:01] <Woods> Huh. Weird. I wonder why I have no ads, lemme look around.
[16:49:05] <Teckla> I don't think adblock software helps with Pandora streaming, does it?
[16:49:48] <Woods> I did not think so either, but I have not had ads on my desktop machine for a very, very long time.
[16:50:06] <Woods> I assumed they stopped playing them for desktop users.
[16:50:07] <Teckla> No big deal, I rarely listen
[16:50:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, doesn't block pandora inline ads
[16:50:13] <Woods> I still get them on my phone though.
[16:50:25] <Woods> A mystery!
[16:50:39] <Teckla> I don't mind Pandora getting their advertising revenue (otherwise they wouldn't exist).
[16:50:56] <Teckla> And they do a nice job keeping the ads reasonable (no 5 minute breaks for a long stream of ads).
[16:51:11] <Subsentient> RTJKLGRTKFJVL;4KREDGER;LETK;T.F';LT,TRCOIGP65;ICPTGP4;O5ITKIMOPIGT;OP4GKXL;GV5K,T[RLGK,4;LTXKGO'FP[CMIRTXPGO5O6I4UG54NWTIOGC;7;M5X4GU CRPOUHC5NXIEL.GTCJ5B.LGUIERXTC.5Y
[16:52:08] <Woods> Teckla: (On my phone) I occasionally get two ads in a row, and because I have OCD-like precision, they happen right before I get to work, so the last minute of my commute is ads. It makes me unhappy.
[16:52:26] <Subsentient> RTJKLGRTKFJVL;4KREDGER;LETK;T.F';LT,TRCOIGP65;ICPTGP4;O5ITKIMOPIGT;OP4GKXL;GV5K,T[RLGK,4;LTXKGO'FP[CMIRTXPGO5O6I4UG54NWTIOGC;7;M5X4GU CRPOUHC5NXIEL.GTCJ5B.LGUIERXTC.5Y
[16:53:08] <Teckla> Woods: Doh
[16:53:23] <Subsentient> I am too tired to do anything slightly more useful than paste in keyboard garbles into random IRC channels, so I should sleep.
[16:54:15] <paulej72> Subsentient: you could at least throw in some lower case in there for randomness ;)
[16:54:46] <Subsentient> paulej72: That I could. That I could.
[16:54:53] <Blackmoore> *Dad Voice* Subsentient -- out. go to bed.
[16:55:01] <Subsentient> KJHKhKJhKHGKjkjgHKLGjhklkjlkhkjhb<LHGKGhljkgBKJhLvjhnhl.KHKLHgkj.;LHHglkjmjhbKJhnkkHKjhkljGHglgHLKjHKJHKLGkjhkGKHGKjgkljhkjlJH
[16:55:09] <Subsentient> $burrito Blackmoore
[16:55:09] * aqu4 chucks a nasty, rotten burrito at Blackmoore
[16:55:12] -!- Subsentient has quit [Quit: Derp.]
[16:55:30] <Blackmoore> *Dad Voice* Don't you start with me. I'll turn this whole internet around.
[16:56:01] <Blackmoore> *dad voice* Dont Make me come back there :P
[16:56:28] <Blackmoore> (wishes I could go back to bed)
[16:57:13] <Woods> Oh Teckla: Google Play Music also lets you upload your music to the service so you can listen to it anywhere (With internet access) you want. I have a few CDs from unknown bands that I tossed on there. You can use that service without subscribing to the radio function.
[16:58:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> since i'm already playing with vms today, guess i can go ahead and make a tails vm
[16:59:23] <michealpwalls> hehe
[16:59:32] <Woods> Oh guys, the FBI sent me an e-mail, they wanted me to know "We have been informed through our global intelligence monitoring network that the sum of $10.500, 000.00, has been released from a bank in Africa bearing your name as the beneficiary"
[16:59:57] <Woods> Anyone know if that is 10 million, or just a really precise 10 dollars and 50 cents?
[17:00:06] <michealpwalls> $10,500
[17:00:10] <michealpwalls> It's german notation
[17:00:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> score, buy me a beer.
[17:00:22] <michealpwalls> haha yes I want beer as well!
[17:00:35] <michealpwalls> Dutch || German beer.
[17:00:39] <Woods> Shewt, if the FBI is giving me money, EVERYONE gets a beer.
[17:00:45] <Teckla> Woods: Thanks, that's interesting
[17:00:51] <michealpwalls> Notice I used a short-circuit OR there? If you find a Dutch beer, dont' even look for a German beer... Just give me the Dutch! :)
[17:01:22] <Woods> Hahaha, it was sent by "SPECIAL AGENT JUKE WILLIAMS"
[17:01:45] <michealpwalls> LOL
[17:01:46] <Teckla> Do those Nigerian scams still work on people?
[17:01:47] <Woods> Jeeze... That name is badass. I am stealing it
[17:02:12] <michealpwalls> The spacing in this Wiki is driving me fucking insane
[17:02:40] <michealpwalls> If I double-lineBreak it creats this gigantic empty whitespace... With 1 lineBreak it's like crammed right up under the line before it..
[17:02:45] <michealpwalls> 1 extreme to the next :(
[17:02:51] -!- Woods [Woods!~41a24c20@Soylent/Staff/Editor/Woods] has parted #Soylent
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[17:02:55] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Woods] by juggler
[17:03:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> now wait a minute here, i think we should go belgian || dutch || anythingbutgerman
[17:03:43] <michealpwalls> LOL!
[17:03:50] <Woods> How about I just give everyone cash in the value of one unit of beer.
[17:04:00] <michealpwalls> I like th sounds of that
[17:04:04] <Woods> AKA, the beer dollar.
[17:04:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> see, now THAT is what currency should be pegged to
[17:04:56] <Woods> I would pay a good B$ for a system like that.
[17:06:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> you'd have to regulate the big brewers to stave off [in|de]flation but otherwise a solid system
[17:07:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> plus it precludes even the possibility of ever reenacting prohibition
[17:07:34] <Woods> Whew! That is good news.
[17:08:04] <michealpwalls> There: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[17:08:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> looks solid
[17:10:44] <michealpwalls> (hifive)
[17:11:00] * mrcoolbp high-fives michealpwalls
[17:12:56] <Teckla> H͇̬͔̳̖̅̒ͥͧẸ̖͇͈͍̱̭̌͂͆͊_C͈OM̱̈́͛̈ͩ͐͊ͦEͨ̓̐S̬̘͍͕͔͊̆̑̈́̅
[17:13:50] <Blackmoore> ?!
[17:15:00] <Blackmoore> ah glitch.
[17:22:20] -!- mechanicjay [mechanicjay!~jhowe@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mechanicjay] has joined #Soylent
[17:22:20] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v mechanicjay] by juggler
[17:24:41] <Woods> Guys, why did my boss build the network out so horribly?
[17:28:41] <Woods> GPM is all jacked up and used for almost nothing, the AD structure is just random and broken, and every server only has one function.
[17:29:14] <michealpwalls> You want to pack as many functions into a physical machine as you possibly can, yea (For efficiency?)
[17:29:32] <michealpwalls> haha sorry, I probably ask some pretty retarded questions regarding Networking/IT :P
[17:29:47] <michealpwalls> My weakest area (Unless you include Visual Arts/Design? :P)
[17:30:39] <Woods> No worries, usually a server has multiple uses, you know, to save on cost/complexity/space.
[17:31:16] <Woods> My boss is just terrified of "Putting all our eggs in one basket" or something, so we have roughly a 1/4 server/employee ratio.
[17:31:22] <Blackmoore> Woods: he probably was tasked to do it before he knew anything about buildng it. and now he cant be bothered to fix it
[17:31:26] <michealpwalls> Jah, I see
[17:31:45] <michealpwalls> That happens a lot in software development, Blackmoore!
[17:31:52] <Blackmoore> yep.
[17:31:53] <Woods> Blackmoore: Oh no, he is a veteran, he has been doing this stuff a long time.
[17:31:56] <michealpwalls> heheheh but then they also don't want to admit it, either! :O
[17:32:01] <Blackmoore> yep.
[17:32:05] <Blackmoore> :P
[17:32:23] <Woods> I could probably get it all fixed up in a weekend.
[17:32:57] <Woods> Cut power consumption by at least half, if not more, drop a dozen servers, clean up the infrastructure, etc.
[17:33:21] <Woods> His least favorite word is "Virtualization"
[17:36:56] <michealpwalls> hehe
[17:37:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> Woods, that's not a bad idea at all if you can afford it
[17:37:45] <Woods> We have roughly 30 servers, and if he let me virtualize them, we could sit VERY comfortably at less than 10. Like, 6, or 7, if he wanted a lot of redundancy.
[17:38:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> eggs, basket, all:1 should be avoided like the plague if possible.
[17:39:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> like if your public webserver's drive takes a shit you don't want your intranet one and the sql databases all going down too
[17:40:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> but yeah, you could probably trim the number and still be relatively redundant with a bit of virtualization
[17:41:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> just don't virtualize everything onto one box and don't have the boxes you virtualize onto have matching lists of vms
[17:41:16] <Woods> TheMightyBuzzard: When you have servers with names that end in 5, it is time to virtualize.
[17:41:34] <Woods> Oh no of course not
[17:41:53] <Woods> I would do two or three boxes, and have redundant boxes for each of those. (At least)
[17:42:07] <Woods> Like you said, expensive, but so so so worth it on the long run.
[17:42:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> how many single service servers was it?
[17:42:40] <Woods> Honestly, I have not even bothered to look into it (or how I would set it up) since my boss is so adverse to it
[17:42:45] <Woods> Roughly 30.
[17:43:07] <Woods> And many of those are redundant anyway.
[17:44:21] <Blackmoore> Even if some of the software didnt virtualize well (Exchange for instance) you'd still have a ton of servers to work with
[17:45:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> his money i spose. aside from the cost and very slight ease of administration, virtualization wouldn't gain him anything.
[17:47:03] <Woods> To be quite honest, if virtualization was deployed here, we would require one fewer IT employee.
[17:48:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, all you'd gain would be a lack of a need for a "go hard reboot or slap a new part in server <blah>" guy
[17:48:55] <Woods> Yup. Exactly.
[17:49:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> you'd still have to admin the servers, they'd just take up less space and you could reboot them without having to ssh/etc...
[17:51:06] <Blackmoore> the plus side is nice tho - if you need extra redundancy or failover it is SO much simpler to roll out
[17:51:20] <Woods> I know right?
[17:51:50] <Woods> The domain controller went down? *click, click, click* k, we are good now.
[17:51:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> personally, i'd say no less than six servers. server 1 with vmlist 1, server 2 with vmlist 2, an exact clone of each, two more servers with half of vmlist 1 and half of vmlist 2 each
[17:52:16] <Woods> Oohhh, that is clever. I like that, I will have to write that down.
[17:52:33] <Woods> I never thought about doing halvsies
[17:52:34] <Blackmoore> and if you are extremely parinoid you kep another set of duplicate VM on an off site location
[17:52:59] <Woods> We already do.
[17:53:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> extra redundancy in case you imaged something bad on your clones
[17:54:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> honestly, i'd be happy if most of my clients would fork for any redundancy at all aside from regular backups.
[17:54:47] <Woods> I know that feel, I am glad that we are in the black enough to pay for so many extras.
[17:56:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> considering pitching a raspberry pi or two for emergency failover of essential services. it'd suck balls to have that low powered a machine for some tasks but at least they wouldn't be down
[17:56:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> and they're cheap enough i might get someone to spring for one.
[17:56:50] <Woods> And cheap! Hehe, I could see that working
[17:57:19] <Woods> $35 for domain services is pretty nice.
[17:57:42] <Woods> Ah well, license too, but still.
[17:58:19] <michealpwalls> I love Rasp.Pi and Arduino programming :D
[17:58:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> i dunno. i think i'd have to start panhandling if i had to admin AD again.
[17:59:23] <Woods> Haha, what do you do now, TheMightyBuzzard?
[17:59:36] <michealpwalls> Arduino and Rasp.Pi make interfacing with the *physical* world dead simple. You can do anything you can possibly think of. Just conceptually think of Rasp.Pi and Arduinos as the bridge between your laptop/desktop computer and the physical world around you :)
[17:59:51] <michealpwalls> For example... Tweet a message to your Arduino that will close a circuit and power-on a mechanical device at the office...
[17:59:58] <michealpwalls> Or power *down* a physical device, using a switch
[18:00:05] <michealpwalls> Possibilities are absolutely endless :)
[18:00:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> not take the job if it involves AD, mostly
[18:01:00] <michealpwalls> Yea, you could do it that way.. Or just use the Rasp.Bi as the bridge. Like the Marshal, if you will. It can detect faults, find the appropriate server to power on and then power down th faulting server
[18:01:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> do my best to either get *nix shops or very quickly and possibly for free convert them to *nix shops.
[18:01:04] <Woods> lol
[18:01:09] <michealpwalls> You don't even have to take part in the process, really LOL
[18:01:50] <Woods> I dunno about them robots, Michaelpwalls.
[18:01:56] <Woods> I spelled your name wrong, sorry.
[18:02:14] <michealpwalls> hehe
[18:02:32] <Woods> TheMightyBuzzard: One of them *nix fellows huh?
[18:02:37] * Woods peers suspiciously at TheMightyBuzzard
[18:02:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> impressive beard n all, yep
[18:03:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> just a hell of a lot easier to admin since nobody in the shop knows how to fuck anything up.
[18:03:41] <Woods> Hah! Nice.
[18:04:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> well cept kids at schools. but that's what disk images and nfs are for.
[18:04:31] <Woods> Of course.
[18:04:52] <michealpwalls> Lately I've wondered, though, for load balancing..
[18:05:06] <michealpwalls> Like, traditional load-balancing deals with packet switching at the routers yea?
[18:05:15] <michealpwalls> So if you have 10 web servers and a load balancer in front..
[18:05:32] <michealpwalls> All 10 servers are full power all the time. They're just either doing a bunch of stuff or not doing a bunch of stuff, dependent upon the load balancer right?
[18:05:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> pretty much
[18:05:52] <michealpwalls> What I have thought about, is throw out the load balancer 'cause it's retarded and replace it with a $35 Arduino...
[18:06:09] <michealpwalls> The Arduino can use actual AC switches... So that it can power on and power down servers, rather than simply route packets.
[18:06:17] <michealpwalls> Wouldn't that be a lot more efficient?
[18:06:31] <Woods> Michaelpwalls: Not particularly
[18:06:33] <Woods> Dang it, I did it again
[18:06:40] <michealpwalls> So it can star the day with 1 server powered on... As the load increases, theh Arduino closes circuits to power on additional servers
[18:07:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> wouldn't be anywhere near as responsive
[18:07:15] <Woods> It would work for things that have predictable increase in use. But not for anything that was happening spur of the moment.
[18:07:16] <michealpwalls> Oh, like a spike of ~1000 visiters you mean?
[18:07:20] <michealpwalls> Suppose that's pretty valid...
[18:07:20] <michealpwalls> :/
[18:07:21] <Woods> Yes.
[18:07:31] <michealpwalls> LOL damn you! Never thought of that :(
[18:07:40] <michealpwalls> *goes back to reading*
[18:07:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's always easier to think of how to break things.
[18:07:48] <Woods> Good try though.
[18:08:28] <Woods> It could work internally for a big company though.
[18:09:09] <michealpwalls> Or maybe do N+1... So start the day with 1 server +1 empty server. The empty server can handle sudden spikes while the arduino powers on additional servers
[18:09:13] <Woods> You already know when everyone is going to clock in, since you created the schedule, so you could time it up with that.
[18:09:13] <michealpwalls> (flex)
[18:09:23] <michealpwalls> Ohhh true... That's really good point
[18:09:36] <michealpwalls> 9am everyone clocks in, so all the machines need to be powered on for that time
[18:10:03] <Woods> Yup, but after 5 you could tone it down to just one server for the late shift people.
[18:10:18] <michealpwalls> Yea. Hell the Arduino could even cut power to lights :P
[18:10:20] <michealpwalls> HEHE
[18:10:46] <Woods> We have a load balancer for our e-mail system, but I do not think it would work for that (Since we do not control incoming e-mails).
[18:11:18] <michealpwalls> One of my friends from school has an Arduino powering his cat-food dispenser
[18:11:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> webcam and motion and a wee bit of code and you could have it aim the machine gun security system too.
[18:11:31] <Woods> Yeeaahhh!
[18:11:35] <michealpwalls> So he can send a tweet to a hashtag the Arduino is monitoring to dispense cat food (rofl)
[18:11:37] <Woods> Guns, etc!
[18:12:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> or pepper spray if you're a gun hater.
[18:12:15] <michealpwalls> haha
[18:12:22] <michealpwalls> Speaking of that...
[18:12:29] <michealpwalls> Arduino+Kinect+Gun
[18:12:30] <michealpwalls> :)
[18:12:51] <michealpwalls> https://www.youtube.com
[18:13:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> nerf one?
[18:13:11] <michealpwalls> Paintball
[18:13:19] <michealpwalls> Developed in C# hehe
[18:13:20] <Woods> Michealpwalls(I checked this time): He could probably apply some kind of pattern recognition code to his tweets, find out how often/when he tweet-feeds his cat, and write a program to do it all for him .
[18:13:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> nice
[18:13:45] <michealpwalls> Woods: Yes, that's smart! Like analytics! LOL
[18:13:51] <michealpwalls> "<google> You should feed your cat."
[18:13:52] <michealpwalls> LMAO
[18:14:09] <Woods> "<google> Nevermind, I took care of it."
[18:14:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> Woods, or just skip it entirely and just write a very small perl script to trigger it on a timed interval if a level switch showed it empty.
[18:14:13] <michealpwalls> hahaha
[18:14:25] <michealpwalls> The future guys :D
[18:14:46] <Woods> TheMightyBuzzard: But then you would just over-feed your cat, and it would become fat and unhealthy.
[18:15:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> timed. if $elapsed > $minFeedInterval
[18:15:48] <Woods> But the question is what is $minFeedInterval equal to?
[18:16:05] <Woods> Analytics to the rescue!
[18:16:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> longer than how often i feed mine for certain. they're looking more like Huts than cats
[18:16:31] <michealpwalls> hehe but that's so 1990s TheMightyBuzzard.
[18:16:31] <michealpwalls> :)
[18:17:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, can't be helped. i'm from the school of shut up or i will replace you with a very small perl script
[18:17:23] <Woods> http://www.slate.com
[18:17:26] <michealpwalls> hahaha
[18:17:28] <Woods> Unrelated
[18:17:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> drinking day today. may the fifth be with you.
[18:18:05] <michealpwalls> I am from the new, "Shut up or I will replace you with an Arduino" generation
[18:18:41] <Woods> I am from the "I am sorry sir, can you please restate the question?" customer service generation. :(
[18:18:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> nothin wrong with that. python is a perfectly good if stupidly OCD about whitespace language.
[18:19:15] <michealpwalls> I like indents, thoug :/
[18:19:24] <michealpwalls> code must be readable :/
[18:19:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> me too, i just don't like them to mean anything except i have good coding manners.
[18:20:09] <michealpwalls> You can directly link many dead open source projects to poor code style IMHO :)
[18:20:14] <Landon> I already have good manners, so it's not a problem :)
[18:20:26] <michealpwalls> Exponentially raising the barrier to entry, developers die out until project itself dies out
[18:20:54] <michealpwalls> Hell look at KTHML vs Gecko...
[18:20:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> same here but sometimes i want an if to only take up one line if the execution part is less than 30 characters or so
[18:21:06] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Pavlovian Password Management - http://sylnt.us - back-to-the-postit-under-the-keyboard
[18:21:25] <michealpwalls> Gecko had a 350x headstart on KHTML... KHTML was an infant in all respects. Apple and them were in love with it for how clean and maintainable it was... Sane architecture and very minimalist design.
[18:21:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> same with a for while etc...
[18:21:43] <michealpwalls> Whereas Gecko... Was a fucking 3,000lbs gorilla with it's own invented technologies (Re-invented wheels galore...)
[18:21:59] <michealpwalls> Yea but that's a slipper slope, TheMightyBuzzard :)
[18:22:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, truth but i generally only slide when drunk and feeling the regex fu.
[18:22:40] <michealpwalls> When you expand even base if..else as multi-line structures with {} it allows somebody 5 years down the road to skim down, see it, put their cursor on the } else { and hit enter... their IDE automatically fills out an else if
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[18:24:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> IDE schmIDE. vim ftw
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[18:24:45] <michealpwalls> I have connect probs. today lol
[18:24:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, if they need to use an ide for anything i've written, they need to be fired anyway.
[18:25:08] <michealpwalls> haha!
[18:25:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> unless forced, i do everything under 500k lines in vim.
[18:26:31] <michealpwalls> vim was my fav. editor for a really long time hehe
[18:26:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> beyond that, i still probably use vim unless it's really giving me a headache.
[18:26:36] <michealpwalls> It's still my most preferred
[18:27:04] <michealpwalls> I use Geany a lot, though. It's cross-platform editor with a GUI and most of the featureset I use/love in vim
[18:28:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm just old i guess or never did enough windows programming
[18:28:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> never saw the attraction of an ide.
[18:28:42] <michealpwalls> Although on OS X Geany is clunky, as I compiled from mac ports and ran in XQuartz (What Apple calls X11) which fucks up the Command button (It wants you to use the Ctrl instead haha)
[18:28:54] <michealpwalls> So it messes with your muscle-memory :/
[18:29:04] <Landon> IDEs aren't necessarily drag and drop programming if that's what you're getting at TheMightyBuzzard
[18:29:34] <Landon> vim with enough extensions is itself an IDE
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[18:29:42] <michealpwalls> ^
[18:29:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> Landon, nah, i've used em enough to know what they are and aren't. and they can debug like a boss. i just don't see the need most of the time.
[18:30:09] <michealpwalls> With the right configuration and plugins, geany and vim are basically IDEs hehe. You can attach consoles/terminals to Geany and bind all your build/debugging tools to it
[18:30:22] <Landon> I think I'd almost consider vim an IDE out of the box, isn't :make standard?
[18:31:02] <michealpwalls> So you can debug, run, build and even run any random utility from the embedded console windows hehe. With the right effort, Geany is crazy powerful yet elegantly terse. It's really tiny LOL
[18:31:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> heh, i just use colored source and search/replace most of the time. don't even build from within.
[18:31:15] <michealpwalls> starts up and is ready to go in fucking nanoseconds just like vim
[18:31:41] * Landon peers over glasses
[18:31:43] <michealpwalls> Although... Full disclosure I am in love with NetBeans and Eclipse. As fat as they may be, they have some seriously powerful capabilities :/
[18:31:48] <Landon> so what are the exact assembly instructions to get it started, michealpwalls ? :P
[18:32:12] <michealpwalls> haha
[18:32:12] * Teckla starts his "fat" IDE once and only once in the morning when he gets to work, so the startup time is pretty much irrelevant to him.
[18:32:19] <Landon> haha
[18:32:24] <Landon> I'm pretty stoked for the jetbrains C++ ide
[18:32:34] <Landon> I really like PyCharm
[18:32:46] <michealpwalls> Yea, same Teckla.. Although NetBeans 8 has a leak somewhere and I have to restart it through-out the day
[18:33:31] <michealpwalls> The real power of an IDE like Eclipse though, TheMightyBuzzard, is code Refactoring..
[18:33:43] <michealpwalls> Esp. consider Slash or something larger
[18:34:15] <AndyTheAbsurd> Yup - I *love* that Eclipse has a built in "refactor" command
[18:34:32] <michealpwalls> You want to rename some methods or variables but they're called all of the place in the code base. The refactoring screens show you diffs. It's so brilliant...
[18:35:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> guess the diffs would be superior to sed
[18:35:29] <michealpwalls> highlight it, open refactor menu, make changes.. Done. Entire project's code base is changed with a few keystrokes (flex)
[18:36:07] <michealpwalls> Also works on (My fav. for web projects with the tangled web of fucking includes / requires keywords) renaming files too
[18:36:10] <Teckla> michealpwalls: I used and liked NetBeans, but the company I work for ended up standardized on Eclipse, and it ended up being easier to just swim the same direction as the other fish, so to speak.
[18:36:22] <Teckla> But I did like NetBeans better than Eclipse.
[18:36:28] <michealpwalls> haha yea, I hear that :)
[18:36:36] <Landon> heh, my favorite feature of pycharm is seeing diffs when I commit
[18:36:45] <Landon> _and I can edit in the diffs_ if I see that I goofed
[18:36:47] <Teckla> Yeah, refactoring > *
[18:36:56] <michealpwalls> Yea, plus the IDE's integration of git / diff...
[18:37:06] <Landon> git? :(
[18:37:08] <Landon> more like CVS
[18:37:08] <Teckla> You can fix horrific architecture mistakes with refactoring, it's pretty much amazing and an absolute requirement these days
[18:37:15] <michealpwalls> CVS? Oh you poor soul..
[18:37:18] <michealpwalls> LOL wtf man?
[18:37:35] <Landon> yeah, I'm only getting around to figuring out the CVS workflow
[18:37:42] <Landon> and we're switching to a super enterprisey source control
[18:38:14] <michealpwalls> I took this project that was ancient... PHP 4-style coding with the ancient mysql library. Brutal! NetBeans whipped it into shape in no time.. PHP 5 code and mysql replaced with mysqli.
[18:38:16] <michealpwalls> Bazinga!
[18:38:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> guess i don't get the appeal because my grep/sed-fu are strong.
[18:38:43] <michealpwalls> Then netbeans can spit out documentation skeletons that you can use to kick start Visio.. Up and running with stunningly beautiful flowcharts and class diagrams in no time at all
[18:38:51] <michealpwalls> It's a massive, massive productivity boost
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[18:39:34] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: haha, don't get me wrong.. The classic utilities are really what power the modern IDEs so by extension you *can* do it all with them, too. It's all up to personal preference really :)
[18:39:50] <michealpwalls> For me, I move around from platform to platform too much to rely on the utilities like sed, awk, vim and their friends
[18:39:57] <michealpwalls> Find myself on a windows machine and then I'm fucked ^
[18:40:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, that would proper suck
[18:40:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh right, that's why my computer was singing beastie boys at me. time to get off my ass and get presentable before noon.
[18:41:34] <michealpwalls> haha
[18:42:44] <Teckla> sed lacks useful context that refactoring tools + statically typed languages can offer
[18:42:45] <michealpwalls> Landon: I've only had limited exposure to CVS and Subversion. I've read a bit about them, though and couldn't possibly imagine getting used to a workflow where I could branch and merge constantly :/
[18:42:57] <michealpwalls> In git branching is instant and super efficient hehe
[18:42:57] <Landon> right
[18:43:03] <Landon> I don't practice branching too much
[18:43:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> well i mean i can check server health and such with a glance to the right buck nekkid but some things require a personal appearance.
[18:43:06] <Landon> I meant mainly the company workflow
[18:43:14] <michealpwalls> Oh
[18:43:28] <arti> branching is awesome
[18:43:39] * arti rummages through some examples
[18:43:40] <Landon> which involves putting change summaries into the bug tracker, because changesets in CVS are nonexistent
[18:43:49] <michealpwalls> Oh man ^
[18:43:53] <michealpwalls> That's horrible :O
[18:44:06] <Teckla> e.g., Static typing + refactoring can know with 100% confidence if "hello" is the variable you intend to refactor, or if it's part of a comment, or part of a string, or part of another class but happens to have the same name, etc.
[18:44:16] <michealpwalls> Landon: You almost need a secretary... A summary secretary, if you will! :)
[18:44:19] <Teckla> In other words, the command line tools cannot, in fact, replace NB/Eclipse style refactoring.
[18:44:40] <arti> michaelpwalls: https://www.atlassian.com
[18:44:41] <michealpwalls> Yea, very good point Teckla
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[18:45:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> Teckla, my sed-fu is apparently better than yours then because i absolutely can do that.
[18:45:12] <michealpwalls> Landon: https://www.atlassian.com
[18:45:14] <Teckla> TheMightyBuzzard: It is simply not possible
[18:45:19] <michealpwalls> I bounced it for you, arti :P
[18:45:23] <Landon> michealpwalls: yeah I use git at the home :)
[18:45:37] <michealpwalls> Ah sorry. I love git. I'm a fuck git ninja :)
[18:45:51] * arti likes git over subversion
[18:45:54] <michealpwalls> I tutor a lot of people at th college on git (Mostly they know "git" as GitHub for Windows...)
[18:46:01] <michealpwalls> And in other words, they don't really know git at all LMAO
[18:46:10] <Landon> arti: who doesn't
[18:46:15] <Landon> I hate having commits be pushes
[18:46:19] <Landon> that's my favorite bit of git
[18:46:26] <Teckla> TheMightyBuzzard: It requires: (1) tooling that knows the language/the syntax of the language; (2) the language must be statically typed; (3) the tool must include refactoring functionality
[18:46:29] <Landon> not having to traverse a network to commit
[18:46:49] <arti> teckla: yay for staticly typed languages
[18:46:55] <Teckla> #2 can be flexible to some degree but not with 100% confidence
[18:46:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> Teckla, or a brain that does.
[18:47:33] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: Pfft, try refactoring some JavaScript or PHP :D
[18:47:35] <Landon> but tools are about taking load off of the brain :)
[18:47:40] <Landon> freeing it up for other thinsg
[18:47:41] <Teckla> TheMightyBuzzard: Oh, sure. I have refactored "manually" using command line tools since the early 1980s. It is certainly 100% doable. It's just much less productive than the tools we have now.
[18:47:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> admittedly some necessary regexes can get to looking like line noise but it is doable.
[18:48:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> right, s'all i'm saying
[18:48:39] <michealpwalls> arti: Also, as an aside... This is my fav. resource for learning/teaching git: http://git-scm.com
[18:48:44] <michealpwalls> Pro Git (Free book!)
[18:48:55] <arti> ah sweet, i usually have to break in designers
[18:49:01] <arti> i can't tell you how frustrating it is lol
[18:49:18] <michealpwalls> haha yea.
[18:49:28] <arti> "yes yes, i know working off of the live is how it might be done, but this way is better"
[18:50:01] <michealpwalls> http://git-scm.com
[18:50:06] <michealpwalls> That's a fantastic read, guys...
[18:50:12] <michealpwalls> Even if you know git well, skim that chapter..
[18:50:12] <arti> let us read from the great book
[18:50:55] <michealpwalls> It is what makes git that fucking *titan* of version control. Branchinch for individual bug tracking topics and long-running branches (stable, testing etc.)
[18:51:12] <michealpwalls> IMHO, at least :D
[18:51:13] * TheMightyBuzzard gets his presentable clothes on and heads out.
[18:51:23] <michealpwalls> Take care, TheMightyBuzzard!
[18:51:28] <arti> yes, good hunting
[18:52:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah man, heading to watch captain america 2. they won't let you in the theater in your boxers.
[18:53:04] <arti> winter soldier is a pretty good one, make sure you stay after the credits
[18:53:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> cheers
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[20:31:43] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Old Mice Improve with Transfused Blood From Young - http://sylnt.us - Dracula-School-of-Medicine
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[21:28:39] <Blackmoore> oh boy.
[21:29:34] <Blackmoore> nothing get's the community into gear like a dupe.
[21:35:27] <LaminatorX> Dupe of what story? I'm not seeing it.
[21:36:56] <Blackmoore> Old Mice and blood.
[21:37:22] <Blackmoore> dupe of Young Blood May Hold Key to Reversing Aging
[21:38:17] <Blackmoore> (rolls his eyes at the community) these things happen
[21:39:25] <LaminatorX> Ah. Weird. Similar and Related Stories in the editor interface doesn't have that one flagged, even now.
[21:44:28] <Blackmoore> *shrug* happens.
[22:01:50] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - The Nuts and Bolts of SN: A Look At The Backend, Part 1 - http://sylnt.us - from-the-crack-team-of-flying-monkeys
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[22:37:57] <Blackmoore> pipedot has released thier source code
[22:40:18] <NCommander> Oh look, poutine is back
[22:40:22] <NCommander> http://soylentnews.org
[22:42:55] <Blackmoore> I thought to ate him.
[22:43:02] <Blackmoore> i thought you ate him
[22:43:57] <Blackmoore> no satisfying some people
[22:46:17] <Blackmoore> I take that you haven't been able to replace mySql yet?
[22:47:24] <NCommander> Blackmoore, that's gone to be non-trivial to say the least
[22:52:33] <paulej72> NCommander: I think part of poutine’s rant was it looks like all 6 servers in the Production Cluster are running on linode 4096’s, but only the 2+2 are correct?
[22:55:23] <Blackmoore> NCommander: i figured as much, still - you'd have some hope that you can hunt down and fix all of the database interface items at fault.
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[23:00:08] <cykros> i think i need to remote slashdot from my RSS reader...i get dumber even just briefly glancing at the comments every time i open something.
[23:07:20] <Blackmoore> oy.
[23:14:04] <MrBluze> poutine has no vision
[23:14:11] <MrBluze> fwiw
[23:14:28] <MrBluze> but sometimes he's got a point
[23:14:32] <MrBluze> see u
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[23:15:41] <Blackmoore> well, i think he has a point; but he has no DATA. the site has been growing at least in page hits
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[23:51:13] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Evangelical Climatologist Gets Christians to Care - http://sylnt.us
[23:52:07] <Landon> ENODEPT
[23:56:26] <SirFinkus> god damn, I think I fucks my back up pretty hard
[23:56:33] <SirFinkus> fucked rather
[23:56:45] <Blackmoore> :( what did you do?
[23:56:55] * arti rolls the dice
[23:56:59] <arti> looks like vacuuming
[23:57:17] <SirFinkus> was unloading a truck, carrying a box with someone, the dropped it and I guess that screwed my back up somehow
[23:57:25] <SirFinkus> I tried to catch it
[23:57:30] <Blackmoore> ouch
[23:57:40] <SirFinkus> didn't feel that bad at the time, but now I can barely walk
[23:57:56] <Blackmoore> get thee to a chiroprator!
[23:58:12] <arti> to the quacks!
[23:58:18] <SirFinkus> or even a real doctor
[23:58:30] <arti> meh, not that much better :P
[23:58:53] <Blackmoore> a general practicioner will not be able to do more that give you pain killers.
[23:58:55] <SirFinkus> probably just needs time, cures 90% of things
[23:59:06] <Blackmoore> PT might help
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[23:59:26] <arti> looks like we're out of the woods
[23:59:37] <SirFinkus> and chiropractors range from somewhat legit to complete quacks
[23:59:50] <arti> it all has to do with subluxations of the spine
[23:59:50] <Blackmoore> I have a legit one.
[23:59:53] <cykros> hrm, still haven't gotten my vote email yet
[23:59:58] <cykros> not in trash, not in spam