#Soylent | Logs for 2014-05-04

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[00:41:14] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v stderr] by juggler
[00:41:53] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Blakes 7 Fan Films Released - http://sylnt.us - weekend-viewing-for-hardcore-nerds
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[01:49:46] <chromas> oh that's nice. Just like real life. Go from a 19" CRT to a tiny LCD. Curse you, nrpg!
[01:50:17] <chromas> See paulej72, you don't kill conversations; I do! It's been hours
[01:51:52] <chromas> Got a spam claiming to be from the USPS. Get 'em, feds!!
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[02:00:52] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Microsoft Shouldn't Patch the XP Explorer Flaw - http://sylnt.us - the-lingering-death
[02:01:04] <MrBluze> yeah i get those
[02:02:27] <chromas> I don't think Malaysa's a real country
[02:02:29] <chromas> :)
[02:04:45] <MrBluze> im gonna use openpgpjs
[02:05:08] <MrBluze> to make a free client-client encrypted message service
[02:06:04] <chromas> Neat
[02:06:52] <chromas> Except for the js part :)
[02:12:26] <MrBluze> ..
[02:12:29] <MrBluze> but if you use anything else
[02:12:37] <MrBluze> its not client-->client
[02:12:53] <MrBluze> or else write a compiled binary for multiple devices
[02:12:58] <chromas> It can be client-client, it's just that js is convenient for users
[02:13:01] <MrBluze> in which case u can't interrogate it and check if it's legit
[02:13:13] <MrBluze> that's rigth
[02:13:33] <MrBluze> but im designing a protocol ... and then u can write whatever u want to use the file format
[02:13:56] <MrBluze> so later can write a ansi c implementation, or a python one, or whatever
[02:14:39] <MrBluze> .. a way of managing open keys as contact lists and writing messages or forum posts in an encrypted way
[02:16:37] <chromas> And you're going to avoid in-band signalling right?
[02:16:54] <chromas> To avoid pitfalls of SQL
[02:17:06] <chromas> Also null-terminate strings suck
[02:17:20] <chromas> s/e /ed /
[02:17:20] <SedBot> <chromas> Also null-terminated strings suck
[02:18:04] <MrBluze> i suppose
[02:18:47] <NCommander> Data recovery from my old machine is in progress
[02:18:48] <NCommander> YAY
[02:18:54] <MrBluze> it will produce base64 encoded messages
[02:18:59] <chromas> Well, somebody has to complain :)
[02:19:10] <MrBluze> u can store them anywhere and anyhow
[02:19:28] <chromas> in the protocol itself, I mean.
[02:19:42] <chromas> I guess if you encode then nulls or whatever is okay
[02:19:46] <MrBluze> the message packet can be of any type
[02:19:59] <MrBluze> text/binary .. as long as the recipient knows what to expect
[02:20:32] <chromas> Oh that's right. You're doing a protocol for the message itself then it can be transmitted over e-mail or whatever; right?
[02:20:57] <chromas> Any place where text can be put
[02:23:33] <MrBluze> yeah
[02:23:59] <MrBluze> or posted on a site that for example reveals a list of headers. or parts of them
[02:24:17] <MrBluze> or u search by header and get shown the crud that is attached to the header
[02:24:28] <MrBluze> or pastebinned
[02:24:50] <MrBluze> or whatever.. cool thing is u can pre-ordain where u want to find the subsequent message
[02:25:58] <NCommander> MrBluze, w00t, I've got MOST of my data
[02:25:59] <NCommander> back
[02:26:05] <NCommander> YYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[02:26:25] <MrBluze> lol congrats NCommander :)
[02:26:47] <MrBluze> did the hard drive die?
[02:27:07] <NCommander> MrBluze, you missed my laptop suiciding
[02:27:14] <MrBluze> not exactly
[02:27:16] <NCommander> ^?
[02:27:18] <MrBluze> i know u bought a chromebook
[02:27:29] <NCommander> MrBluze, well, I got it partially unbrorked enough to get my GPG keys back
[02:27:40] <MrBluze> that's pretty good
[02:28:45] <MrBluze> chromas: thing is, in a chain of messages, the header gets re-encrypted using salt supplied in the first message, so you can identify the next message in a chain instead of just finding all headers that belong to you/sender
[02:29:47] <chromas> NCommander: did you show it who's n command, 'eRe?
[02:30:17] <chromas> </terrible>
[02:31:43] <chromas> MrBluze: So it's kind of a linked-list then
[02:31:52] <chromas> one-way
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[02:33:18] <NCommander> chromas, *groaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan*
[02:33:30] <chromas> NCommanderTaco
[02:34:17] <chromas> I need a $50,000 government subsidy to research how common it is for people in charge of Slash code to have "Commander" in their nick
[02:34:53] <chromas> Inquiring minds wna to know
[02:35:03] <chromas> s/wna/derp/
[02:35:03] <SedBot> <chromas> Inquiring minds derp to know
[02:36:19] <MrBluze> chromas: linked-list?
[02:36:21] <MrBluze> yes
[02:36:44] <MrBluze> u supply salt with your message, the salt can be divided up depending on how much is supplied
[02:37:00] <MrBluze> so a message can branch out, depending on how much salt was provided - u might have 10 children of a message
[02:37:35] <MrBluze> the client scans for headers that match the sender/receiver keys + salt to find replies
[02:38:43] <chromas> Would it be bad to MD5/sha2/whatever the unencrypted message to use as the next salt?
[02:39:06] <MrBluze> u could do that
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[02:39:42] <MrBluze> but salting a message .. maybe that adds entropy
[02:39:53] <chromas> You don't specify that, though, right? Just any byte string, as long as the client can keep track of it
[02:40:01] <MrBluze> yep
[02:40:15] <MrBluze> well say for example you have a text message.. u have a range of chars that are allowed
[02:40:25] <MrBluze> and u can seed the message with illegal chars that can be used as salt
[02:40:33] <chromas> Then you append `fortune -o` to it :)
[02:40:34] <MrBluze> they can be randomly distributed
[02:41:34] <MrBluze> lol if u append fortune -o to it, u are pwned
[02:42:11] <MrBluze> .. so u can have a 200 byte message in a 2048 byte packet, 90% of which is salt
[02:43:04] * MrBluze imagines this would make brute forcing a bit more tricky
[02:44:25] * chromas is trying to play Starcraft 2 but the launcher is masturbating
[02:44:38] <chromas> suse wine didn't have that problem :D
[02:44:59] <MrBluze> tell it's mother to walk in on it
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[02:50:15] <chromas> Had to add wine PPA
[02:50:21] <MrBluze> chromas: havent completely thought this through but..
[02:50:50] * chromas notes that the wine in 'stock' repos for many distros doesn't do anything and is a fpos
[02:51:01] <MrBluze> header would be a hash: [hashtype][....hash...] then [enctype][message]
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[02:51:26] <MrBluze> the hash is a hash of [sender-key][receiver-key][salt]
[02:51:43] <chromas> And then the whole thing is text-encoded?
[02:51:53] <MrBluze> yes, base64
[02:52:33] <chromas> Compress, encrypt, compress, text-encode, compress :D
[02:52:45] <MrBluze> the message contains [anything] with salt included
[02:53:10] <MrBluze> lol perhaps
[02:53:19] <MrBluze> does compress cause a vulnerability ?
[02:53:32] <chromas> Reduces entropy I guess
[02:53:40] <chromas> At least, pre-encryption
[02:53:52] <MrBluze> yeah, post encryption doesnt hurt
[02:53:56] * chromas should shut up before people realize he doesn't know what he's talking about
[02:54:00] <MrBluze> pre-encryption i am not sure.. i wouldnt mandate it
[02:54:33] <MrBluze> compressed stuff leaves patterns everywhere
[02:54:34] <chromas> Most stuff would be compressed anyway unless people are storing all their pr0n as ASCII art
[02:54:49] <MrBluze> im more thinking of text mainly
[02:55:28] <chromas> Nope; going to encode one HD pornographies and paste it over 50,000,000 forum posts
[02:55:29] <MrBluze> oh, the pr0n yeah well i always argue the way to catch pedo's is human intelligence not intercepting comms
[02:55:57] <MrBluze> chromas: they can work out who goes and downloads all those pieces
[02:56:11] <MrBluze> and knock on one door and hey presto porn ring broken
[02:56:51] <MrBluze> i dont buy that argument against securing communications
[02:57:20] <chromas> I didn't mean that anyway. It was supposed to be another bad joke
[02:57:28] <MrBluze> lol i know
[02:57:35] <chromas> because text-endoding HD video would be huuuuuge
[02:57:40] <MrBluze> but u know that gets used to bust people's ass for preventing economic espionage
[02:57:58] <MrBluze> well the data packet can be anything at all
[02:58:12] <MrBluze> so the message can be an encrypted mp4
[02:58:33] <MrBluze> depends if u can find somewhere to host it
[02:58:39] <MrBluze> .. or u just send it
[02:59:17] <MrBluze> im more interested in ordinary people just saying what they think to eachother without fear
[03:00:12] <chromas> What you do is md5 the video, then distribute that. Then, when I want to watch it, I just cat /dev/urandom and keep testing the output until I get a match
[03:01:00] <MrBluze> lol
[03:01:10] <MrBluze> thats how the nsa do it
[03:01:17] <MrBluze> cause they have the powah
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[03:02:35] <chromas> The entire universe lies within that device
[03:02:51] <chromas> You just have to know when to look
[03:03:14] <MrBluze> yeah if u analyze a single atom correctly u can see the reflection of the universe in it
[03:03:37] <chromas> Enhance...
[03:03:53] <MrBluze> lol zoom in
[03:04:45] <chromas> Find a picture taken during the murder. Zoom in on rain drop, look at reflection; zoom in on reflection until next rain drop; repeat until you're at the scene of the crime.
[03:05:45] <MrBluze> or you can take a picture taken a month after the murder
[03:06:13] <MrBluze> keep zooming in on vapour molecules until you trace back in time far enough to see the face of the murderer
[03:06:37] <mrcoolbp|afk> or you can use real science....just a thought
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[03:07:00] <chromas> MrBluze: That's not funny, sir
[03:07:11] <chromas> mrcoolbp:
[03:07:14] <mrcoolbp> lol
[03:07:17] <MrBluze> lol
[03:07:18] <chromas> Needed two tabs
[03:07:24] <mrcoolbp> not the first time *thats* happened
[03:07:33] <mrcoolbp> er *that's*
[03:07:52] <mrcoolbp> hey guys
[03:08:08] <MrBluze> hi mcr
[03:08:11] <MrBluze> mrcoolbp:
[03:08:16] <mrcoolbp> lol
[03:08:26] * MrBluze falcepalms
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[03:26:52] <crutchy> g'day soylent
[03:28:10] <mrcoolbp> d'day
[03:28:13] <mrcoolbp> lol
[03:28:23] <mrcoolbp> goodeh?
[03:28:25] <MrBluze> hi crutchy
[03:28:57] <crutchy> hey mrbluze,mrcoolbp :-)
[03:29:09] <SpallsHurgenson> arvo, mate
[03:29:17] <mrcoolbp> su[
[03:29:23] <crutchy> ay SpallsHurgenson
[03:29:27] <mrcoolbp> sup, crap, can't type after sake
[03:29:30] * mrcoolbp jots that down
[03:30:07] * crutchy remembers what happened to tom cruise on the last samurai re sake
[03:31:05] <crutchy> does sake have haaucinogenic properties or something?
[03:31:29] SpallsHurgenson is now known as Snakeman
[03:31:33] <Snakeman> none at all
[03:31:40] Snakeman is now known as TalkingMushroom
[03:31:43] <TalkingMushroom> Why do you ask?
[03:31:46] <crutchy> lol
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[03:32:06] * PinkElephant dances
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[03:32:18] FatWomenWithOrangeHair is now known as crutchy
[03:32:22] <SpallsHurgenson> (please don't ban me :)
[03:32:54] * mrcoolbp thinks about it
[03:33:20] MrBluze is now known as FatWomanWithShortOrangeHair
[03:33:25] <mrcoolbp> I *could* ban you....or...maybe I'll just make another drink
[03:33:31] * mrcoolbp makes another drink
[03:33:35] <crutchy> coffee++
[03:33:35] <deadpeas> karma - coffee: 19
[03:33:59] * SpallsHurgenson watches Space 1999
[03:34:04] FatWomanWithShortOrangeHair is now known as MrBluze
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[03:34:47] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Bytram|away] by juggler
[03:34:58] <mrcoolbp> hi Bytram|away
[03:35:01] <crutchy> g'day Bytram|away
[03:35:20] <crutchy> this tab cheaty thing is so cool
[03:35:26] * crutchy is such a noob
[03:35:31] <mrcoolbp> crutchy, what client?
[03:35:37] <crutchy> xchat
[03:35:48] * mrcoolbp needs to learn some shortcuts in his clinet
[03:35:49] <SpallsHurgenson> just wait until you learn how to enable aimbot and wallhacks for IRC :)
[03:35:56] <mrcoolbp> oh god
[03:36:36] <mrcoolbp> hmm can I type in bold?
[03:36:38] <mrcoolbp> cool
[03:37:31] <crutchy> :-D
[03:38:26] <mrcoolbp> what about underlined?
[03:38:31] <mrcoolbp> nice
[03:38:43] <mrcoolbp> and reversed?
[03:38:47] <mrcoolbp> oh.
[03:39:11] <MrBluze> i wonder
[03:39:27] <mrcoolbp> mmm?
[03:39:31] <MrBluze> do u think public key encryption is broken?
[03:39:45] <MrBluze> from the outset?
[03:39:45] * mrcoolbp is not the guy to ask
[03:39:45] <crutchy> looks good here mrcoolbp :-)
[03:39:50] <mrcoolbp> cool
[03:39:56] <mrcoolbp> MrBluze: how so?
[03:40:36] <crutchy> is this the same conversation from two days ago? (just to get my bearings cos i been away for couple of days with internet problems)
[03:40:45] <MrBluze> just that public/private key pairs ARE linked by maths
[03:41:05] <crutchy> i agree... we need telepathic keys
[03:41:08] <MrBluze> crutchy: not really, just i am wondering if i should just not use asymmetric techniques
[03:41:16] <crutchy> ah
[03:41:23] <crutchy> i'm out of the loop
[03:41:34] * mrcoolbp nods like he knows exactly what MrBluze is saying
[03:41:56] <crutchy> mathematical asymmetric pointers obviously :-P
[03:42:05] <mrcoolbp> Naturally.
[03:42:10] * crutchy thinks that sounded cool
[03:42:10] <MrBluze> if u really want secure communication, u have to meet at some point in person and exchange keys
[03:42:33] <mrcoolbp> MrBluze: that is ideal, but usually not ideal, ya know?
[03:42:39] <crutchy> MrBluze: yes.... with some kind of intercourse involved?
[03:42:46] <MrBluze> yeah exchange of dna lol
[03:42:52] <mrcoolbp> and we went to that already?
[03:42:59] <SpallsHurgenson> so that's what james bond was doing with all those women, exchaning encryption keys!
[03:43:13] <crutchy> my wife scrambled my private key when i exchanged with her
[03:43:14] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[03:43:16] <MrBluze> lol how did u know ;)
[03:45:04] <MrBluze> the way to secure the internet is to find a way of sharing keys that doesnt involve the internet
[03:45:17] <mrcoolbp> crutchy = )
[03:45:29] <mrcoolbp> MrBluze: a literal series of tubes?
[03:45:41] <SpallsHurgenson> road trip to googleHQ!
[03:45:42] <MrBluze> conduits lol
[03:45:47] <crutchy> canadians havee it all figured out
[03:45:55] <crutchy> maple syrup networks
[03:46:15] <mrcoolbp> mmmmmmm syrup
[03:46:31] <crutchy> might be a bit of a speed problem there though
[03:46:50] <mrcoolbp> you mean "lag" ?
[03:46:55] <mrcoolbp> = )
[03:46:57] <crutchy> their maple internet would "treacle" along bahahahaha!!!
[03:47:01] <MrBluze> viscosity
[03:47:21] * crutchy needs much more coffee
[03:47:30] <mrcoolbp> my dad posted that lag story the other day, I haven't let on to the editors who he is yet though, need to retain impartiality somewhat eh?
[03:49:21] * MrBluze thinks
[03:49:33] <mrcoolbp> he got a few stories posted, but this one got rejected: http://techcrunch.com
[03:49:57] <mrcoolbp> I was hoping to see the comments on that one.....
[03:50:11] * crutchy wouldn't mind introducing his missus to soylent, but is embarrassed to mention the name
[03:50:47] <mrcoolbp> crutchy: we're working on it
[03:50:51] <mrcoolbp> it's a process
[03:50:54] <crutchy> "soylent" sounds worse than CNN :-P
[03:51:20] <MrBluze> soylent, now softer and moister so you need fewer wipes
[03:51:40] <MrBluze> u could put the word on a packet of baby wipes
[03:52:02] <mrcoolbp> MrBluze or adult diapers?
[03:52:06] <crutchy> or surfboards
[03:52:09] <mrcoolbp> soilent
[03:52:10] <crutchy> i mean lady pads
[03:52:22] <MrBluze> lady pads lol
[03:52:27] <mrcoolbp> crutchy, nice save?
[03:52:32] <crutchy> phew
[03:52:36] <MrBluze> soylent with triple wings and turbo jets
[03:52:41] <mrcoolbp> hah
[03:53:27] <MrBluze> be confident, with soylent
[03:54:04] <MrBluze> hmm .. so
[03:54:10] <crutchy> "now with power ranger prints so that when your husband sticks them to himself he doesn't look like a total moron"
[03:54:10] <MrBluze> i give people the option of public key
[03:54:29] <MrBluze> or if they can exchange data securely by other means, they can share a one time pad that gets reused
[03:54:39] <MrBluze> lol crutchy
[03:55:06] <MrBluze> one time pad.. or u can wash it and use it again and again
[03:55:11] * crutchy not sure if non-australians would get that one
[03:55:17] <crutchy> lol
[03:55:25] <crutchy> old chool
[03:56:28] <MrBluze> ewww.. didnt u know it was a one time pad? how come u're still using it after a week!
[03:57:13] <crutchy> maybe it's dual-layer
[03:57:27] <crutchy> or you can play it upside down
[03:57:42] <MrBluze> nice
[03:57:53] <MrBluze> and turn it around, and do it again .. u get 4 uses
[03:58:00] <crutchy> like undies
[03:58:08] <MrBluze> yep
[03:58:32] <crutchy> then you can reuse them again to keep flies away from your bbq
[03:58:37] <MrBluze> .. so if two people can exchange a set of keys.. the two become certifying authorities for other people who trust them
[03:58:45] <mrcoolbp> MrBluze: did you get a response from NC on that last email you sent me?
[03:58:52] <MrBluze> mrcoolbp: no
[03:58:55] <MrBluze> didnt expect one
[03:58:55] <mrcoolbp> okay
[03:59:06] <mrcoolbp> well you got one from me right?
[03:59:08] <mrcoolbp> = )
[03:59:26] <MrBluze> uhm yes
[03:59:32] <crutchy> maybe NC is becoming One with the new hampshirians?
[04:00:22] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Dissolving Film Kills Bacteria in Meat - http://sylnt.us - mostly-tasteless
[04:00:25] <MrBluze> lol well its all good - if u have an income, and live in safety, be happy
[04:00:46] <mrcoolbp> MrBluze: that's the goal
[04:01:04] <mrcoolbp> crutchy: he should be back in NY soon
[04:01:07] <MrBluze> so if two people can share keys off the internet, they can be the start of a web of trust
[04:01:51] <MrBluze> .. and if they can issue bits of key to others to use in key exchanges, this makes for a semi-public key system
[04:01:59] <crutchy> maybe we should create a new self-aware bot that we can trust
[04:02:04] <crutchy> and then plug ourselves into
[04:02:12] <crutchy> and supply electricity for
[04:02:15] <crutchy> err
[04:02:25] <MrBluze> lol the japanese will do that
[04:02:32] <MrBluze> and she will be sexy too
[04:02:40] <crutchy> with a red dress
[04:02:44] <MrBluze> yep
[04:02:53] <MrBluze> and silicon where it matters most
[04:03:04] <crutchy> and tokyo will be renamed zion?
[04:03:10] <mrcoolbp> hopefully
[04:03:37] <crutchy> humans are inherently untrustworthy
[04:03:52] <crutchy> its all the monkeys fault
[04:03:59] * crutchy points at monkeys
[04:04:06] <SpallsHurgenson> Monkeys!!!!
[04:04:41] * crutchy switches off the scary monkey show
[04:04:55] <SpallsHurgenson> awww, no more monkey :(
[04:05:13] * crutchy switches on the cupcake show :-D
[04:05:23] * MrBluze thinks some more
[04:06:03] * crutchy is actually kinda serious about some kind of bot managing internet keys
[04:06:14] <crutchy> as long as it was open source
[04:06:36] <crutchy> and maybe distributed
[04:07:03] * SpallsHurgenson haxors teh int3rn3t
[04:07:04] * crutchy has nfi how it would/should/could work though
[04:07:33] <crutchy> you spelt h4x0rz wrong :-P
[04:10:01] * SpallsHurgenson un-Inter's the 'net
[04:10:12] <mrcoolbp> goodnight guys
[04:10:23] <SpallsHurgenson> brings back the age of seperate networks... a return to the purity of the BBS :)
[04:10:30] <MrBluze> hmm
[04:10:48] * mrcoolbp goes to get zzzz
[04:10:53] mrcoolbp is now known as mrcool|zzz
[04:10:53] <MrBluze> i reckon when those one way algo's were invented, they never published the quick way of reversing them
[04:11:13] <MrBluze> and it's all "oh... oops" when it gets discovered independently later
[04:16:56] <MrBluze> but if u can do a secure one time pad exchange .. maybe multiple, and u can then find several mutual friends who have shared the same keys in person.. hmm
[04:19:24] <SpallsHurgenson> just so long as there is a backdoor for governments and content providers :)
[04:19:45] <SpallsHurgenson> or do you support pirates and drug dealers and pedarests and terrorists?
[04:19:53] <MrBluze> lol
[04:20:06] <MrBluze> u mean governments and content providers?
[04:20:20] <MrBluze> whats the difference?
[04:21:24] <SpallsHurgenson> that sort of talk is treasonous, citizen. please report to the nearest incinera^h^h^h^h^h^h re-education module
[04:21:42] <MrBluze> lol
[04:21:48] <MrBluze> i got a name for my idea
[04:21:54] <MrBluze> secure encrypted key swap
[04:21:56] <MrBluze> seks ;)
[04:22:06] <MrBluze> thanks to inspiration from crutchy
[04:23:05] <SpallsHurgenson> and would you make this technology available to everyone?
[04:23:38] <MrBluze> why not
[04:23:50] <MrBluze> the idea is once it spreads enough, it becomes usable
[04:23:55] <MrBluze> because of the 6 degrees of separation
[04:24:02] <SpallsHurgenson> so you are saying you support SEKSing up minors, for instance? :)
[04:24:25] <MrBluze> as long as u know a few people who have keys, u're set.. the more mutual friends, the more secure it becomes
[04:26:13] -!- unitron has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[04:26:31] <MrBluze> well, the way to break pedo's is human intel
[04:27:01] <MrBluze> thats the way to fight crime
[04:27:14] <SpallsHurgenson> but that's so HARD
[04:27:35] <SpallsHurgenson> can't we just assume everybody is guilty and then use computers to find a crime after the fact?
[04:27:44] <MrBluze> look at australia's royal commission .. thats not a intercept orgy
[04:27:48] <MrBluze> its a real investigation
[04:27:48] <SpallsHurgenson> this is the 21st century; we should be more efficient!
[04:28:12] <MrBluze> lol
[04:28:35] <MrBluze> the thing that tells me that public key encryption is BS is governments
[04:28:38] <MrBluze> because they dont use it
[04:29:01] <MrBluze> they distribute individual usb's to employees with keys on them
[04:32:39] <SpallsHurgenson> they should use a more secure format, like 8" floppy disks :)
[04:32:59] <MrBluze> lol
[04:33:46] <MrBluze> so public key encryption could be secured by using offline keys that get shared in person
[04:34:24] <MrBluze> and if person A knows person B who knows person C ... person A can contact C using a key they both have shared with B
[04:34:54] <MrBluze> and they combine that with their public keys for that exchange
[04:35:35] <SpallsHurgenson> except that only works with small groups. Larger organizations will have significantly longer chains, and those are difficult to maintain and keep from being corrupted
[04:35:37] <MrBluze> as long as person B met person C at some point, and person B met person A at some point
[04:35:47] <MrBluze> 6 degrees of separation
[04:35:54] <MrBluze> u need a system that survives 6 degrees
[04:36:16] <MrBluze> and if u can have multiple links
[04:36:32] * SpallsHurgenson barely trusts one degree away :)
[04:36:42] <MrBluze> say u (A) know person D via C, and also via person B
[04:36:46] <MrBluze> u use both shared keys
[04:37:48] <MrBluze> so an attacker would have to take a rubber hose to person B and C who might not be related
[04:38:00] <SpallsHurgenson> wanna keep a secret? don't tell anyone :)
[04:38:10] <MrBluze> lol
[04:38:20] <MrBluze> wanna do anything useful?
[04:39:04] <SpallsHurgenson> don't rely on secrets, then. Either make the information open, or don't depend on secret info to perform the task :)
[04:39:29] <MrBluze> i think this could work tho
[04:39:41] <MrBluze> the way to secure the inernet is by using non-internet communication
[04:40:24] <MrBluze> everybody becomes a sort of trusted authority for their own interpersonal contacts if they share keys
[04:40:44] <SpallsHurgenson> which essentially breaks the internet as it is today. you un-inter the internet by creating seperate (often analog) networks
[04:42:38] <MrBluze> yep
[04:43:05] <MrBluze> u use the internet to securely communicate with people u want to talk to
[04:43:28] <MrBluze> and if u just want to freely exchange info, then u can, at least u arent pretending it's secure
[04:43:36] <SpallsHurgenson> it's not a new idea. it isn't widely used because it doesn't scale and you essentially sacrifice all the advantages of the internet
[04:44:40] <MrBluze> the part where scaling is hard is sharing a key down a chain of contacts
[04:44:48] <MrBluze> have to think about that more
[04:46:06] <MrBluze> public key is already too hard for most people
[04:46:07] <SpallsHurgenson> and you run into all the problems SSL has right now, which is why our browsers trust turkish certificate agencies :)
[04:46:28] <MrBluze> nah
[04:46:33] <MrBluze> no certificate agencies
[04:46:37] <MrBluze> u trust your friend jim
[04:46:40] <MrBluze> cause u met him
[04:46:45] <MrBluze> thats who u trust
[04:48:14] <SpallsHurgenson> no, but it's the same problem. you either have very small chains (far less than six degrees, which is a very, very, very wide net) or you end up with untrustworthy links in the chain
[04:48:25] <MrBluze> yeah
[04:48:32] <MrBluze> but if u know jim, and tom
[04:48:40] <MrBluze> and jim is a spook but tom isnt
[04:48:42] <MrBluze> and u use jim AND tom to talk to jane
[04:48:57] <MrBluze> it won't break
[04:49:12] * JamesNZ mumbles something about social engineering
[04:49:42] <SpallsHurgenson> not to mention the old crowbar problem to password protection :)
[04:50:28] <SpallsHurgenson> (which I suppose is a sort of social engineering too :)
[04:51:01] <JamesNZ> Crowbar problem?
[04:52:25] <SpallsHurgenson> you know, http://xkcd.com :)
[04:52:44] <MrBluze> bah damn bad connection
[04:53:12] <JamesNZ> SpallsHurgenson: Hah :P
[04:56:26] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|afk
[04:58:40] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[05:00:32] <SpallsHurgenson> (hmmm, more rain)
[05:00:58] <MrBluze> my internet is crap
[05:01:02] <MrBluze> lost many messages
[05:02:20] <MrBluze> didnt get anything for past 10 mins
[05:02:51] <SpallsHurgenson> nobody was speaking for the last ten minutes :)
[05:03:05] <MrBluze> SpallsHurgenson: thing is if u know 20 people, there is a chance of 2 or 3 of them to know the more distant person
[05:03:23] <MrBluze> so u have, say, 3 links - 3 keys to use for crypto with that person
[05:03:53] <MrBluze> and if one link is a bad egg, it doesnt matter
[05:04:34] <MrBluze> and becasue the average person has no chance of breaking public key encryption, plus the man doesnt know how to break one time pads, this is pretty good
[05:05:22] <SpallsHurgenson> the "average person" can't break rot13
[05:05:28] * Konomi yawns
[05:05:42] <SpallsHurgenson> more to the point, he doesn't need to; he just needs for an expert to crack it for him and then make it available in an easy-to-use tool :)
[05:05:43] <MrBluze> zakly
[05:05:44] <MrBluze> hi Konomi
[05:05:51] <Konomi> hey ~~
[05:06:05] <Konomi> I'm progressing to ~o
[05:06:12] <Konomi> so at least one eye is open
[05:06:12] <MrBluze> oh lol
[05:06:34] <MrBluze> say i send a message to u, SpallsHurgenson, using keys u and i shared with Konomi, and NCommander
[05:06:42] <Konomi> eh?
[05:06:56] <MrBluze> plus using a public key
[05:06:56] <Konomi> you been touching my gpg keys :(
[05:06:59] <MrBluze> lol
[05:07:19] <MrBluze> doesnt matter of one of the two ppl we know is a leaker
[05:07:21] <Konomi> I actually have none just otr keys
[05:07:38] <Konomi> I don't sign emails it's kind of clanky
[05:07:49] <MrBluze> lol neither do i
[05:08:06] <MrBluze> im thinking of a way of improving public key crypto
[05:08:16] <Konomi> more bits
[05:08:30] <crutchy> hi konomi
[05:08:38] <MrBluze> nah, non-internet bits
[05:08:51] <crutchy> i think we're talking about seks keys
[05:08:56] <Konomi> hey
[05:09:00] <MrBluze> yep seks keys
[05:10:09] <crutchy> mrbluze is interested in everyone's bits :-P
[05:10:48] <crutchy> for seks
[05:11:12] <Konomi> oh god
[05:11:21] <Konomi> just say it's for science
[05:11:34] <MrBluze> lol
[05:11:47] <crutchy> "i promise i will never die"
[05:11:59] <Konomi> I promise you can't keep promises"?
[05:12:17] <crutchy> hmm
[05:12:43] <crutchy> apparently that kind of proposition doesn't work outside team america
[05:13:20] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
[05:13:28] <Konomi> in other news
[05:13:41] <Konomi> I think I took too much vit d and my face started burning
[05:13:46] * MrBluze is reading zimmerman's stuff .. pff prior art
[05:13:59] * crutchy has his internet back
[05:14:10] <crutchy> and some more IRCiv scrawl
[05:14:16] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|afk
[05:15:12] crutchy is now known as not-crutchy
[05:15:20] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[05:15:41] not-crutchy is now known as crutchy
[05:16:28] <MrBluze> zimmerman already invented this
[05:16:42] <MrBluze> but he relied fully on internets for the web of trust
[05:16:54] <MrBluze> and his thing was hard to do .. i wanna make it easy peasy
[05:17:07] <Konomi> security easy
[05:17:08] <Konomi> pick one ;p
[05:17:32] <MrBluze> lol
[05:19:02] -!- Bytram|away has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[05:21:23] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Google Glass - $80 Build Price "Absolutely Wrong" - http://sylnt.us - supply-and-demand-price
[05:27:44] crutchy is now known as not-crutchy
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[05:32:36] <MrBluze> is this a jeckyl hyde thing?
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[06:13:20] <crutchy> g'day willyg_cos,subsentient
[06:13:42] <Subsentient> hi crutchy
[06:13:57] <Subsentient> building a new beta of my custom homebrew/private distro.
[06:14:04] <Subsentient> I had to rebuild the installer from scratch.
[06:15:20] <crutchy> sounds cool
[06:15:30] <crutchy> i'm still plugging away at IRCiv
[06:15:46] <crutchy> lost my interwebz for a couple of days
[06:17:43] <Subsentient> ahh
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[08:30:46] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Israel Wins Intel's 10nm fab Contest - or Not! - http://sylnt.us - where-will-the-jobs-be-created?
[08:32:47] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|afk
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[08:56:15] <Konomi> MrBluze changes rotation more than a pulsar
[08:56:21] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[08:56:24] <Konomi> ;p
[08:56:39] * Konomi wonder if that is nick change is broken
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[11:30:57] <neagix> what's up with that logo?
[11:31:04] <neagix> looks like I missed something
[11:32:03] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - CRISPR: New Method of DNA Engineering - http://sylnt.us - designer-monkeys-are-seasonal
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[11:58:50] <crutchy> g'day soylent
[12:01:45] <MrBluze> gday crutchy
[12:01:49] -!- opie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[12:01:51] <MrBluze> my connection dies roughly every 20 mins
[12:01:57] <crutchy> oh
[12:02:05] <MrBluze> but none of my other connections break
[12:02:10] <MrBluze> i can stream video for hours if i want
[12:02:20] <MrBluze> odd isnt it
[12:02:40] <MrBluze> but not when i use a european proxy
[12:02:42] <MrBluze> only US proxies
[12:03:25] <crutchy> i don't know much about proxies. don't use them
[12:03:37] <crutchy> ooh i gotta reset my dns
[12:03:50] <crutchy> i got a new ip address today
[12:03:56] <crutchy> after about hmm 10 years
[12:03:58] * MrBluze plays twilight zone music
[12:07:53] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|afk
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[12:09:51] <chromas> MrBluze|afk:
[12:10:10] <chromas> Let's see if that highlights for him when he comes back
[12:10:54] <crutchy> g'day chromas
[12:11:31] <crutchy> sorry about all the pings this arvo
[12:11:48] <chromas> G'day crutchy. Saw you poking exec earlier.
[12:12:07] <crutchy> working on units now :-)
[12:12:19] <chromas> It's okay. If it bothers me I can leave the channel :)
[12:12:26] <crutchy> ah
[12:13:23] <chromas> Thought I had my irc thing ready to start testing but now it's giving me access violations
[12:13:52] <crutchy> you writing a client/bot thing?
[12:14:07] <crutchy> sorry if you already mentioned and i forgot
[12:15:00] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[12:15:15] <crutchy> is it in freepascal?
[12:15:20] <crutchy> wb mrbluze
[12:15:34] <chromas> Yeah. So far it's just a client unit. It doesn't like when I pass the user/host/etc string
[12:16:43] <chromas> I have a lot of wrapper code so the bug is probably buried in there somewhere
[12:16:57] <crutchy> hmm yeah i'm not sure how sockets work in fp
[12:17:43] <crutchy> what's your user string just outta curiosity?
[12:17:56] <crutchy> i never been too sure what to put in there
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[12:19:34] <chromas> USER testbot host host :teste test
[12:19:39] -!- JamesNZ has quit [Quit: Busying myself...]
[12:20:16] <crutchy> USER exec hostname servername :exec.bot
[12:20:19] <crutchy> hmm
[12:20:25] <MrBluze> is this IRC hosted in the US?
[12:20:27] <chromas> The server replaces the host/servername with its own
[12:20:28] <crutchy> so testbot is nick?
[12:20:38] <chromas> yeah
[12:20:40] <crutchy> mkay
[12:20:53] <crutchy> MrBluze: dunno
[12:21:02] <crutchy> prolly
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[12:21:21] <MrBluze> i get very reliable connections to here via netherlands
[12:21:24] <crutchy> the ssl cert is ks
[12:21:27] <MrBluze> but crap if its US
[12:22:07] <crutchy> ahh that's just cos its going through xlefay's aura of awesomeness
[12:22:20] <MrBluze> yeah ks
[12:23:14] <crutchy> he's giving your connection super pancake powers :-P
[12:23:37] <MrBluze> mmm pancakes
[12:23:49] -!- opie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[12:24:23] <crutchy> opie having connection troubles maybe?
[12:24:37] <chromas> Maybe it's the same trouble
[12:24:41] <MrBluze> like me
[12:24:50] <crutchy> or he in early stages of bot dev :-P
[12:25:00] <MrBluze> maybe
[12:25:07] <MrBluze> hey crutchy im a free man now
[12:25:11] <chromas> Maybe MrBluze is a bot
[12:25:19] <chromas> Resigned?
[12:25:24] <crutchy> definitely... he's machine
[12:25:29] <MrBluze> yup
[12:25:40] * MrBluze swings his arms about weightlessly
[12:25:54] <chromas> You're now free to develop a modern usenet replacement
[12:25:58] <crutchy> was pretty good pay you walk away from no?
[12:26:08] <MrBluze> lol
[12:26:17] <MrBluze> oh.. i still got my real job
[12:26:19] <chromas> We paid him in muffins
[12:26:22] <crutchy> lol
[12:26:28] <MrBluze> actually that just got better ;)
[12:26:35] * crutchy wishes he got paid muffins
[12:26:42] <chromas> Soylent muffins
[12:26:47] <crutchy> ew
[12:26:49] <MrBluze> but yeah .. i am gonna write a modern usenet replacement
[12:27:13] <chromas> They have nuckles and stuff instead of nuts
[12:27:30] <chromas> Hm, "nuckles" looks wrong and spellcheck don't work now
[12:27:32] <MrBluze> ive worked out how to do the improved public key thing
[12:27:32] <MrBluze> with my amazing un-mathematical brain
[12:27:34] <crutchy> they prolly have nuts too
[12:27:44] <chromas> knuckle
[12:27:47] <crutchy> not that i want any of those
[12:28:15] <crutchy> i have an unmathematical brain
[12:28:30] <crutchy> i use a calculator to add even smallish numbers
[12:28:41] <crutchy> like 5 and 12
[12:28:50] <crutchy> just in case
[12:28:52] <chromas> Use rot0. It's like rot26 but much faster
[12:29:11] <crutchy> is that where everything is adjusted till it equals zero?
[12:29:12] <MrBluze> grr.. back soon
[12:29:34] <crutchy> yeah that would be much simpler... if every answer was zero
[12:29:39] <chromas> No that's pigzip
[12:29:42] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|afk
[12:30:03] MrBluze|afk is now known as MrBluze
[12:30:05] <chromas> http://www.hackles.org
[12:30:19] <MrBluze> ok this should be better
[12:30:28] * crutchy goes to hunt for an icypole in the freezer
[12:30:44] <MrBluze> so i worked out the web of trust problems
[12:30:48] <chromas> Frozen phallic object is still phallic object
[12:31:00] <chromas> Going into your mouth
[12:31:12] <chromas> Oh?
[12:31:39] <MrBluze> well.. use public key encryption like everywhere - that is standard and mandatory
[12:32:35] <MrBluze> but allow users to share semi-private keys.. every user has 1 or more semi-private keys they can issue that they share with trusted friends
[12:33:01] <MrBluze> .. ideally they share this by non-internet means
[12:33:27] <MrBluze> this makes the security between two friends very strong .. nearly as good as one time pad .. probably the same as good
[12:33:32] <crutchy> if all phallic objects tasted like icypoles, i would live near the washington monument
[12:33:45] <MrBluze> lol crutchy how true
[12:35:19] <MrBluze> .. but users are encouraged to share on the semi public key. if enough of these are floating around, there is a chance that any two users are in posession of a matching key
[12:35:31] <crutchy> MrBluze: you proposing something like an enigma protocol?
[12:35:47] <crutchy> oh semi-public
[12:35:54] <MrBluze> yeah
[12:36:17] <MrBluze> if you find more than two matching semi-public keys, u can use them both to further encrypt the message
[12:36:28] <crutchy> a key that you swap with your mates with a usb stick or something
[12:36:38] <MrBluze> so u end up using your private key, recipients public key, and a bunch of random keys that other people made
[12:36:40] <MrBluze> yeah
[12:36:56] <MrBluze> and hopefully only you and the recipient are in posession of the same combination of keys
[12:37:05] <MrBluze> so its hard for other people to be in posession of all those keys
[12:37:25] <MrBluze> based on 6 degrees of separation, this should eventually be achievable
[12:38:03] <MrBluze> ... certainly when it matters most - people you know and trust in your life, you can share those keys and it builds from there
[12:38:08] <crutchy> i can see it now... trying to find the right key to send an encrypted s.o.s. message... with a velociraptor trying to bust through the door
[12:38:13] <MrBluze> yeah.. usb stick or wahtever - but not by the internet
[12:38:33] <MrBluze> ok.. so that part is like this:
[12:38:34] <crutchy> "all i have to do is find the right file"
[12:38:43] <MrBluze> you have a bunch of hashes of keys you have in posession
[12:38:50] <crutchy> "luckily it's a unix system"
[12:39:02] <MrBluze> you shake hands with the sender by sharing each other's hashes
[12:39:11] <MrBluze> eg: look them up on a registry
[12:39:15] <crutchy> like passing the bong
[12:39:22] <MrBluze> lol yes
[12:39:34] <crutchy> "nice hash man"
[12:39:56] <MrBluze> and by the matching hashes the program automatically includes all relevant keys into the crypto
[12:40:43] <MrBluze> if the right thing happens, the 3 letter ppl wont be in posession of all those semi public hashes, but if ordinary people have them, no biggie
[12:41:04] <MrBluze> semi public keys.. they can have the hashes
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[12:41:35] <MrBluze> waddayafink?
[12:42:33] <MrBluze> .. thing is to make it easy .. so i start it out as a website with maybe web interface, but probably make the prototyle in c++
[12:43:07] <chromas> Whatever happened to objective c?
[12:43:22] <MrBluze> yeah or c
[12:44:06] <chromas> As a non-expert, sounds good to me :)
[12:44:36] <chromas> Well there used to be Objective C that seems to have disappeared
[12:44:50] <MrBluze> isnt that cocoa or soemthing?
[12:45:38] <MrBluze> i just suspect that standard public key encryption is weak somehow in a way we aren't told
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[12:47:04] <chromas> You're right. It's an apple thing. Well, they did well with Object Pascal, which is what Delphi is based on so maybe I should learn it
[12:48:07] <MrBluze> the extra key thing is low tech, its not even related to the public key encryption method
[12:48:35] <MrBluze> its just a bunch of one time pads.. or salt.. or whatever - i probably keep it to 20kb or so of random numbers as a 'key'
[12:48:49] <MrBluze> so if u had 200 keys, u wont have more than a few mb
[12:49:06] <MrBluze> tho i thought a key could be 1mb of random
[12:52:24] <chromas> The master key would be 5GB
[12:52:45] <chromas> Nobody's cracking that
[12:54:04] <MrBluze> well, thats the thing
[12:54:11] <MrBluze> u might have several thousand keys
[12:55:01] <MrBluze> your old keys might end up in far flung places.. can still use em
[12:56:34] <MrBluze> but most people save their really secure stuff for people they actually know
[12:56:45] <MrBluze> its just a way to make that easy
[12:56:51] <crutchy> anyone played 0ad?
[12:57:33] <chromas> I opened it once
[12:57:51] <chromas> You must have just opened your package manager
[12:58:03] <crutchy> yeah
[12:58:29] <MrBluze> interesting
[12:58:45] <chromas> It's always at the top. Nobody makes anything else starting with 0
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[12:58:50] * crutchy wonders if chromas has a spy cam hidden in his house
[12:59:07] * chromas does
[12:59:50] <MrBluze> i get nausea playing those gamse
[13:00:03] <crutchy> the screenshot looked ok
[13:00:11] * chromas gives good handjobs to nsa employees to get access
[13:00:35] <MrBluze> lmao
[13:00:35] <crutchy> oook
[13:00:59] <chromas> And you can't grab that because it's ctcp
[13:01:33] <crutchy> * chromas gives good handjobs to nsa employees to get access
[13:01:39] <crutchy> !grab
[13:01:39] <deadpeas> grab <nick>
[13:01:48] <chromas> Lol
[13:01:48] <crutchy> ah feck
[13:02:13] <chromas> !Grab crutchy
[13:02:13] * crutchy launches zombie @ deadpeas
[13:02:26] <chromas> !grab crutchy
[13:02:27] <deadpeas> Added quote 159
[13:03:01] -!- opie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[13:03:48] -!- exec [exec!~exec@709-27-2-01.cust.aussiebb.net] has joined #Soylent
[13:03:49] <chromas> s/(.)/( . Y . )/g
[13:03:49] <SedBot> <chromas> ( . Y . )( . Y . )( . Y . )( . Y . )( . Y . )( . Y . )( . Y . )( . Y . )( . Y . )( . Y . )( . Y . )( . Y . )( . Y . )( . Y . )
[13:04:03] <chromas> !grab SedBot
[13:04:03] <deadpeas> Added quote 160
[13:04:24] <crutchy> wow that quote was voluptuous
[13:05:26] <chromas> SedBot s/(.)/( . Y . )/g
[13:05:26] * SedBot is a 53-line awk script, https://github.com
[13:06:15] <crutchy> generate
[13:06:27] <crutchy> civ
[13:06:27] <exec> IRCiv: https://github.com
[13:06:34] <crutchy> hmm
[13:06:43] <crutchy> i wish i knew how that damn bot worked
[13:11:09] -!- exec has quit [Quit: exec]
[13:15:12] -!- Subsentient has quit [Quit: Derp.]
[13:18:02] -!- Subsentient [Subsentient!~WhiteRat@universe2.us/Subsentient] has joined #Soylent
[13:21:26] <Subsentient> Ohhh yeah, beta 3 is pretty stable. I can replace Fedora with this soon.
[13:21:28] <Subsentient> http://universe2.us
[13:23:37] <Subsentient> only bug is with laptop lids not turning back on when closed.
[13:23:44] <MrBluze> reminds me of amiga, Subsentient
[13:23:49] <Subsentient> MrBluze: heh
[13:23:55] <Subsentient> It's XFCE 4.11
[13:24:01] <MrBluze> u sure u dont want a bit of help with your graphics?? ?? ?? ;)
[13:24:09] <Subsentient> how so
[13:24:13] <MrBluze> yeah but xfce can look sexy u know
[13:24:27] <MrBluze> oh i dunno, i could help u with backgrounds at least
[13:24:34] <crutchy> generate
[13:24:43] <Subsentient> heh it's a personal distro
[13:24:47] <MrBluze> but i like the window theme u have
[13:24:50] <crutchy> dump
[13:24:56] <Subsentient> I'd provide the iso but I get 300kbps up
[13:24:59] <crutchy> ~unlock
[13:25:07] <MrBluze> tha's ok
[13:25:13] <Subsentient> MrBluze: heh
[13:25:17] <MrBluze> im using xfce on one of my vm's
[13:25:34] <Subsentient> but, for shits and giggles, I can give the net installer CD for you to mess with
[13:26:18] <MrBluze> i was just offering to do u a background image
[13:26:32] <Subsentient> mm
[13:27:00] <Subsentient> MrBluze: Cyan and true blue are the colors of SubLinux, and also me :^)
[13:27:16] <MrBluze> okay :)
[13:27:22] <Subsentient> the html notation for the shade of cyan is #c3ffff
[13:27:37] <Subsentient> not #cc, #c3 :^)
[13:27:40] <MrBluze> but u got gunmetal kind of window borders
[13:27:45] <MrBluze> and home icon
[13:27:49] <Subsentient> heh
[13:27:52] <MrBluze> u gotta match with that
[13:28:16] <MrBluze> .. u can still have the bright blue/cyan for your branding
[13:28:36] <Subsentient> Also this: http://universe2.us
[13:28:44] * Subsentient doesn't know why he had to post that link
[13:28:56] * Subsentient is proud of his beta
[13:29:05] <Subsentient> MrBluze: Hmm
[13:29:13] <Subsentient> can you fix irregularities in the wallpaper there?
[13:29:15] <MrBluze> not knocking that .. they're fine
[13:30:35] <Subsentient> MrBluze: the transparent panel actually does a lot for the desktop
[13:30:42] <Subsentient> but then again that requires the compositor
[13:30:49] <Subsentient> and, not all my machines will do that
[13:31:01] <MrBluze> i'd take the wallpaper u have
[13:31:07] <MrBluze> well.. sort of
[13:31:18] <MrBluze> have the sublinux in a spotlight
[13:31:36] <MrBluze> darken it towards the edges. probably more towards the left so the icons and text are emphasised
[13:31:57] <MrBluze> and add something to give it the gunmetal blue in there so it all matches up
[13:32:19] <Subsentient> :^)
[13:32:29] <Subsentient> MrBluze: the window borders are not the default theme
[13:32:40] <Subsentient> MrBluze: the default is clearlooks and the xfce default borders
[13:32:46] <MrBluze> ah ok
[13:32:58] <MrBluze> well whatever teh default theme is, i'd match the background to it
[13:34:55] <MrBluze> there's not that much to differentiate linuxes now they are all so polished
[13:36:46] <Subsentient> MrBluze: refresh that image
[13:38:15] <MrBluze> yep then u should do something to desaturate a fair bit of the background
[13:38:32] <MrBluze> the bits that u dont want to grab attention .. ie: most of it
[13:38:33] <Subsentient> MrBluze: Also this: http://universe2.us
[13:39:16] <MrBluze> i'd go with the theme u are going with
[13:40:40] <MrBluze> but maybe away from the diagonal middle line you can do a fade to dark or something
[13:40:40] <MrBluze> dunno
[13:40:43] <MrBluze> create a layer in gimp, do a transparent to black fade from middle to outer corner.. then again in a new layer
[13:40:44] <MrBluze> adjust the opacity until it looks right
[13:40:49] <MrBluze> or apply it only to the light blue .. try different combinations ..
[13:40:54] <MrBluze> or apply to light blue - fading to black... and apply desaturation to the dark blue
[13:41:41] <MrBluze> </ideas>>
[13:42:45] <MrBluze> if u like ill attempt it tomorrow or so
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[13:44:49] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v janrinok] by juggler
[13:45:34] <Subsentient> MrBluze: For now I'd be happy with those messed up edges in the wallpaper corrected, but I haven't the slightest idea how to do that.
[13:45:53] <Subsentient> e.g. the blue beams have some "crusty' edges
[13:46:59] <MrBluze> oh.. generally u do that by making the wallpaper 2 or 3 times the needed resolution
[13:47:05] <MrBluze> then u crop it
[13:47:19] <MrBluze> if u do that u can get much smoother lines ..
[13:48:11] <Subsentient> heh
[13:48:23] <crutchy> gimp prolly has some antialiasing tools
[13:48:38] <MrBluze> if u want me to do stuff i can tomorrow at some point probably
[13:49:04] <Subsentient> MrBluze: well it'd be useful for that wallpaper but I can't ask for much else.
[13:49:29] <Subsentient> I like that wallpaper a lot, but I'd like it to look less crusty on the edges and not have messed up shadows on some bars
[13:51:09] <MrBluze> yep
[13:51:09] <MrBluze> i think the idea of that wallpaper is good
[13:51:11] <MrBluze> line widths are a bit uneven.. was that intentional?
[13:51:30] <Subsentient> MrBluze: Yeah actually
[13:51:51] <MrBluze> or u want uniformity?
[13:52:28] <Subsentient> mmh, one of each to see would be nice, but either way it should look merely like a cleaned up version of the existing one, same colors etc.
[13:52:37] <Subsentient> But
[13:52:42] <Subsentient> on the bright side
[13:52:49] <Subsentient> that image was pretty easy to make
[13:53:10] <Subsentient> I just made a huge canvas and copy-pasted it into a smaller one and rotated it to diagonal
[13:53:17] <MrBluze> yeah
[13:53:30] <MrBluze> downscaling would have helped, from a larger resolution
[13:53:35] <Subsentient> yeah
[13:53:44] <MrBluze> and there is a filter in gimp that will produce those bars evenly
[13:54:00] <Subsentient> Well my bootloader has a 640x480 png splash of that, and I can't see the distortions there.
[13:54:28] <MrBluze> the shadow errors are fixable.. u do it witout the split first ..
[13:54:33] <Subsentient> I'm actually on SubLinux now, I just remembered. Copied over my xchat stuff.
[13:54:53] <MrBluze> then u duplicate half of the screen as a new layer, and shift the layer up
[13:54:55] * Subsentient wonders how the benchmarks would treat SubLinux
[13:55:00] <Subsentient> hmm
[13:55:22] <MrBluze> .. that partly fixes it anyway.. depends on direction of your shadows
[13:55:39] <MrBluze> anyway lol
[13:57:57] <MrBluze> i can try tomorrow for u
[13:59:13] <Subsentient> thanks bud
[13:59:30] * Subsentient kinda wants a tester for the current beta
[13:59:40] * Subsentient just wants feedback
[14:00:26] <MrBluze> no worries
[14:00:28] * Subsentient notes however that his upload speed is pitiful
[14:01:30] <Subsentient> MrBluze: It's so hilarious that I make a distro intended only for myself and then decide "hey limme get a bunch of people to try it because... I wanna!"
[14:02:00] <MrBluze> my net is atrocious
[14:02:07] <MrBluze> i am getting timeouts every 20 mins
[14:02:18] * MrBluze gotta move house soon
[14:03:04] <Subsentient> MrBluze: yeah I have slow and steady :^)
[14:03:07] <Subsentient> download speed is nice
[14:03:10] <Subsentient> upload is BS
[14:05:21] <MrBluze> well its good u got a distro happening
[14:05:30] <MrBluze> debian based or?
[14:08:00] <Subsentient> MrBluze: It's source based
[14:08:20] <Subsentient> I used some guides in LFS because they know how to do some things nobody does but it's not really an LFS system.
[14:08:23] <Subsentient> At least not in design.
[14:08:54] <Subsentient> I've got a custom filesystem layout. You can check it out here: http://universe2.us
[14:09:00] <Subsentient> that's like a 4kb tarball lol
[14:09:14] <Subsentient> it's the template I use for the core system and it's mini-brother the installer distro.
[14:09:41] <Subsentient> It's /usr merged, and all sbin is a symlink to bin.
[14:10:45] <Subsentient> I just prefer one partition and I hate being dropped to a primitive shell and finding sbin is not in PATH, and it's nice to have all binaries in one place, so that's just kinda what I did
[14:11:05] <Subsentient> I'm sure plenty will hate that design
[14:11:41] <MrBluze> well it gets rid of a lot of anacronisms
[14:12:10] <MrBluze> devices are bigger now, more reliable probably, and so u dont gain huge efficiency from separating everything so much
[14:12:23] <MrBluze> dunno about tidiness tho ??
[14:12:46] <Subsentient> MrBluze: Actually it's pretty nice. Folder takes longer to load in thunar obviously but it's really convenient.
[14:12:50] <MrBluze> hmm.. nodejs has a crypto library
[14:12:59] <MrBluze> but thunar is quick
[14:13:01] <Subsentient> MrBluze: untar that and you'll see
[14:13:03] <Subsentient> yes it is
[14:13:21] <Subsentient> but /usr/local is empty (minus the dirs I pre-create) under SubLinux systems
[14:13:31] <Subsentient> so literally every executable ends up in /usr/bin
[14:13:37] <Subsentient> and everything else is a symlink to that
[14:13:55] <MrBluze> usr/bin also?
[14:14:02] <MrBluze> ah gocha
[14:14:14] <MrBluze> yes i see
[14:14:15] <Subsentient> /sbin >> /usr/bin, /bin >> /usr/bin, /usr/sbin >> /usr/bin
[14:14:24] <MrBluze> permission problems?
[14:14:27] -!- prospectacle [prospectacle!~3a6b4c7a@k17-316-97-193.mit252.act.optusnet.com.au] has joined #Soylent
[14:14:29] <Subsentient> Not really.
[14:14:31] <prospectacle> evening
[14:14:36] <Subsentient> It's not a really secure system anyways.
[14:14:37] <MrBluze> prospectacle: i had some brainwaves
[14:14:41] <Subsentient> It's got a single user gui design.
[14:14:46] <Subsentient> It boots straight to desktop.
[14:14:50] <MrBluze> thats pretty useful Subsentient
[14:14:56] <MrBluze> nice kiosk type thing
[14:15:13] <Subsentient> MrBluze: You can fiddle with the 12MB net installer if you like.
[14:15:22] <prospectacle> MrBluze, always good to hear
[14:15:48] <MrBluze> i downloaded it subs.. i will give it a VM tomorrow :)
[14:15:53] <Subsentient> :^)
[14:16:03] <MrBluze> prospectacle: actually the idea was not a dumb one
[14:16:24] <MrBluze> i say we just use a standard public key encryption system but with one addition, which is the inventive part
[14:16:40] <prospectacle> MrBluze, go on.
[14:16:53] <MrBluze> well public key is easy, there are libraries literally everywhere for it
[14:17:20] <MrBluze> but the internet's weakness is it's a single pathway of communication, and the way it is, the whole of it is being watched
[14:17:34] * Subsentient notes that with the upcoming release of Epoch 1.1 and it's support for RUNONCE, he can finally generate ssh keys on the first boot
[14:17:38] <MrBluze> and i have a suspicioun public key systems are compromised
[14:17:40] -!- TheMightyBuzzard has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[14:17:49] <MrBluze> so..
[14:18:02] <MrBluze> we have a semi-public key system
[14:18:16] <MrBluze> u generate semi-public keys, publish the hash of the key
[14:18:35] <MrBluze> u share the semi-public key with an individual in person .. usually someone u want to communicate on email securely in future
[14:18:48] <MrBluze> u encourage that person to share on the key to others - in person
[14:18:59] <MrBluze> the idea is the semi-public key never gets onto the internet, hopefully
[14:19:31] <MrBluze> because of the 6 degrees of separation.. if your key gets around enough, eventually random people will have it
[14:19:39] <MrBluze> and u wil have random other people's keys
[14:20:18] <prospectacle> So the hashes are used publicly (For addressing, etc), and the public keys are shared by sneakernet?
[14:20:23] <MrBluze> .. the keys spread usually from the centre point of your communications outwards.. so for many people u will have keys out there that you both have.. and u can track this by looking at recipient's hashes
[14:20:26] <MrBluze> yes
[14:20:58] <MrBluze> if one or more semi-public keys exist that u share with the recipient, u automatically add those to your crypto
[14:21:28] <MrBluze> this beats the potential weakness of public key that zimmerman designed - at least partly
[14:21:38] <prospectacle> So the other sender needs your full public key, it's not a semi-key (it's the whole thing) it's just semi-public in that you share it with them in person
[14:21:47] <MrBluze> yes
[14:21:55] <MrBluze> it's not a half-half key, its just a bunch of salt
[14:22:02] <MrBluze> random 1024 bytes or whatever
[14:22:32] <MrBluze> u got it
[14:22:55] <MrBluze> .. and if your network of hashes intermeshes with the other person's, u can say.. security enhanced by 4 extra keys, or so
[14:23:04] <prospectacle> I guess that's always an option, an additional layer to public key encryption. The good thing about these systems is they can be nested.
[14:23:14] <MrBluze> yeah
[14:23:18] <prospectacle> You can use just their key, or their key+your key, or their key+your key + salt. OR progressive salt, etc.
[14:23:41] <MrBluze> yeah progressive salt is already part of some cryptos
[14:24:02] <MrBluze> public key requires a signing authority
[14:24:43] <prospectacle> People can choose their own level of paranoia or number of layers of protection. Trick would be to make a single protocol for it. The rest can be handled by things like message types. You know whether you have to use salt, or a shared pasword, or one time pad, or just your privat ekey to decrypt, based on message-type.
[14:24:50] <MrBluze> but in a way, if someone displays a hash that you also have, it's a sign that there was contact between you two
[14:24:58] <MrBluze> yes
[14:25:07] <Subsentient> this is the best ever considering I abhore smartphones. http://imgs.xkcd.com
[14:25:09] <MrBluze> i think u are right, a js version is impractical
[14:25:20] <MrBluze> lol Subsentient i laughed at that top
[14:25:22] <MrBluze> too
[14:26:14] <prospectacle> MrBluze, I've got the basics working: You can tell that a message is for you (using boht decrpytion and checksum) and that it's from a specific sender (again using decryption and checksum) with public/private keys for both sender and recipient.
[14:26:18] <MrBluze> either has to be php on a localhost, or c/c++ or some such .. because the interaction with openPGP or whatever
[14:26:25] <Subsentient> XKCD Phon: Presented in partnership with Qualcomm, Craigslist, Whirlpool, Hostess, LifeStyles, and the US Chamber of Commerce. Manufactured on equipment which also processes peanuts. Price includes 2-year Knicks contract. Phone may extinguish nearby birthday candles. If phone ships with Siri, return immediately; do not speak to her and ignore any instructions she gives. Do not remove lead casing. Phone may attract/trap insects; this is n
[14:26:25] <Subsentient> ormal. Volume adjustable (requires root). If you experience sudden tingling, nausea, or vomiting, perform a factory reset immediately. Do not submerge in water; phone will drown. Exterior may be frictionless. Prolonged use can cause mood swings, short-term memory loss, and seizures. Avert eyes while replacing battery. Under certain circumstances, wireless transmitter may control God.
[14:26:29] <prospectacle> It's very basic. I was going to do a gui for it this weekend but haven't gotten around to it.
[14:26:36] <prospectacle> One minute I'll chuck the code up on my journal.
[14:26:46] <MrBluze> okay
[14:26:53] <crutchy> hi prospectacle, Subsentient, MrBluze
[14:26:55] <MrBluze> tho i am going to bed shortly and i have a 60 hour week coming up
[14:26:57] <MrBluze> hey crutchy
[14:27:04] <Subsentient> hi crutchy
[14:27:43] <prospectacle> hi crutchy
[14:28:08] <Subsentient> $sr hi crutchy
[14:28:08] <aqu4> yhcturc ih
[14:28:12] <MrBluze> prospectacle: i think to get this off the ground we'll need a web server to help .. i am going to be buying a vps soon
[14:28:16] <prospectacle> No worries MrBluze, I'm going as well and very busy this week but peruse it at your leisure. It took me a while to figure out the openssl stuff, so it might save you some time (or anyone else who cares to look at it).
[14:28:31] <MrBluze> thanks for that
[14:28:48] <MrBluze> if we make something that was as easy to use as hushmail.. maybe easier, it will win
[14:29:06] <prospectacle> MrBluze, yeah once the initial program works we can have a server to store the messages. The actual encrypting/decrypting can be done by people ont heir own machines if they want to install php
[14:29:10] <MrBluze> esp if u can host your mail all over the place.. like on an a4 sheet blutacked to the train window
[14:29:37] <MrBluze> yep .. u can distribute xamp or something like that for the winblowz users
[14:29:46] <prospectacle> yeah, servers should be cheap as they just need to store text, and send back requested partial-header matches.
[14:30:03] <MrBluze> yup.. i just get something with unlimited bandwidth and storage ;)
[14:30:09] <MrBluze> $6/month probably
[14:30:22] <MrBluze> it can be hosted by the nsa for all i cae
[14:30:23] <MrBluze> care
[14:30:45] <prospectacle> cool
[14:31:56] <MrBluze> yeah.. pki +/- psk
[14:32:26] <MrBluze> but if the psk can be made to work with relatively distant ppl that u might not have met ..
[14:33:26] <MrBluze> anyway im off to bed - see u all later
[14:34:47] <crutchy> cya MrBluze
[14:35:12] <MrBluze> seeya :)
[14:39:54] <prospectacle> ok see you.
[14:39:59] <prospectacle> I'm just preparing my journal, adding a brief explanation
[14:40:34] <prospectacle> hope you mind me mentioning you in the post, that we were discussing it on irc and what the basic idea is.
[14:41:25] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Assymmetric Warfare at the Supermarket - http://sylnt.us - anything-to-save-money
[14:43:12] <MrBluze> more than happy
[14:49:14] <prospectacle> ok it's up
[14:50:12] <prospectacle> http://soylentnews.org
[14:54:04] <prospectacle> ok later all, have a great one
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[15:46:32] <michealpwalls> Good morning, everybody! :)
[16:08:53] <michealpwalls> My ADHD strikes again..
[16:10:01] <michealpwalls> I set out to collect neat, nostalgic links to discussions about early Slash development. I wound up writing something that more resembles a design document :(
[16:10:12] <michealpwalls> With a few discussion links sprinkled around
[16:20:39] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Downside of Antibiotics: Killing Useful Bacteria - http://sylnt.us - there's-good-bugs-and-bad-bugs
[16:55:01] <crutchy> g'day michealpwalls
[16:56:13] -!- crutchy has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[17:01:56] <michealpwalls> How are things?
[17:02:11] <michealpwalls> I'm writing a terminology disclaimer, to ward off the perl trolls.
[17:02:12] <michealpwalls> LOL
[17:17:00] <michealpwalls> A short novel I wrote: http://soylentnews.org
[17:17:02] <michealpwalls> hahaha
[17:20:49] <Bytram|away> michealpwalls: interesting! it's been too many ages since I looked at perl. :/
[17:21:10] <Bytram|away> michealpwalls: fwiw, I noticed a minor typo in your link/header: Slash::Dislay::Provider
[17:21:18] <Bytram|away> michealpwalls: s/Dislay/Display/
[17:21:40] <Bytram|away> wish I could chat, but I gtg to my day job. cya!
[17:22:08] <michealpwalls> Ohh! thx!
[17:22:12] <michealpwalls> cya!
[17:22:41] <michealpwalls> Yea I just hope I'm not duplicating this... I looked around as much as I could and I did not find documentation on the Template *code*, only the actual templates themselves (The template data)
[17:22:45] <michealpwalls> Fed into the template system ^
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[17:40:27] mrcool|zzz is now known as mrcoolbp
[17:43:38] <mrcoolbp> michaelpwalls: hmm that's interesting at a glance, can we integrate that into the wiki?
[17:44:09] <mrcoolbp> michaelpwalls: have you seen the "Slash Doc" section of the wiki?
[17:44:36] <mrcoolbp> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[17:47:52] <michealpwalls> Hrmm!
[17:48:06] <michealpwalls> I'll register and put it on the wiki if it's useful!
[17:48:36] <michealpwalls> I wasn't sure if I was duplicating somebody elses work, hehe. If what I wrote was useful I'll def. put it on the Wiki though
[17:49:09] <michealpwalls> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[17:49:11] <michealpwalls> Oh crap!
[17:49:13] <michealpwalls> (facepalm)
[17:49:22] <mrcoolbp> michaelpwalls: there's a lot of stuff on there
[17:49:41] <mrcoolbp> But I'm no developer, so I've only skimmed through
[17:52:37] <mrcoolbp> meichaelpwalls: it's kinda disorganized and not very userfriendly old documentation, and we've already made some changes to the code too...
[17:53:20] <mrcoolbp> cleaning that up a lot would probably go a long way towards reducing the barrier for entry in adding new devs to the team (something we desire greatly)
[17:54:14] <michealpwalls> If my journal belongs anywhere, it's definately in here: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
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[17:59:55] <mrcoolbp> michaelpwalls: the info in your journal could still be integrated right? It seems well-presented, contrary to most of the info in that doc, thought I'm not sure I would know due to my limited understanding of the subject material
[18:00:29] <michealpwalls> Yes I think it would complement that page quite well
[18:00:54] <michealpwalls> Esp. since the github repository is up, so all of the code on that page could be linked to the git repo instead of directly on the page
[18:04:51] <mrcoolbp> hmmm
[18:05:13] <mrcoolbp> that sounds time-consuming but rather helpful
[18:06:10] <michealpwalls> I was wondering, is there anyway a link titled "Developers" can be added underneath the "Wiki" link on the main SoylentNews site, that links here: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[18:06:47] <mrcoolbp> that's a good idea
[18:06:56] <michealpwalls> That way, from the main SN page we can easily herd developers to the same spot. Then collect all the resources in that spot so it's easy to find and organized ^
[18:07:05] <mrcoolbp> let me see if it's a editable slashbox
[18:07:11] <michealpwalls> Thx!
[18:10:41] <mrcoolbp> still looking
[18:14:02] <mrcoolbp> hmm, I think that's buried in the code somewhere michalpwalls, I'll need to bug one of the devs at some point, but it's a great idea, thanks
[18:18:27] <michealpwalls> No probs.
[18:18:31] <michealpwalls> Thx :)
[18:18:59] * mrcoolbp stops messing with admin stuff for fear of breaking the whole site
[18:21:09] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Should Steve Jobs Have Gone to Jail? - http://sylnt.us - well-it's-too-late-now
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[19:28:30] <mrcoolbp> !max-uid
[19:28:35] <mrcoolbp> = (
[19:29:39] <xlefay> !uid
[19:29:39] <deadpeas> The current maximum UID is 4292, owned by whathappenedtomonday
[19:30:11] <mrcoolbp> ah thx
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[19:42:09] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Asymmetric Warfare at the Supermarket - http://sylnt.us - anything-to-save-money
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[20:30:46] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Media Co: Block TPB - Iceland: Not in Our Waters - http://sylnt.us - have-another-try
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[22:29:46] <cykros> hrm, i don't like the long standing nh license plate logo, but i also agree the old one kind of wasn't the best either...anyone know of a font where the letters are made out of human bodies?
[22:31:03] <cykros> http://www.fonts101.com this might do
[22:31:46] <cykros> almost no need for a tagline when the logo itself is made out of people :-P
[22:31:51] <boioioing> lol
[22:32:04] <boioioing> out loud, even
[22:34:50] * cykros now rtfm's to figure out how to install a custom font in slackware
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[22:38:50] <SirFinkus> there is a bacon font
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[22:39:01] <SirFinkus> I use it as my irc font
[22:40:24] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Swype Keyboard Makes 4000 Location Requests Daily - http://sylnt.us - bug-or-feature?
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[22:50:43] <NCommander> Hello world
[22:50:50] <NCommander> cykros, I keep forgetting to reset it
[22:52:59] <cykros> NCommander: did you see that bodies font i found?
[22:53:19] <cykros> i just imported it after googling how to import truetype fonts to slackware, about to bust out gimp to see if i can make something halfway decent
[22:53:37] <cykros> (though given that the font does most of the work there, i'm sure the gimp is overkill)
[22:54:14] <cykros> i just need to see how it looks colored rather than b&w
[22:55:21] <NCommander> cykros, haven't checked yet
[22:55:25] * NCommander hasn't been having a great week
[22:55:54] <cykros> sorry to hear that
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